Speaker 1: Okay, let's you know.
Speaker 2: What's sitting right next to me is the lube that
Speaker 2: you got me for my birthday?
Speaker 1: Ah? Did you use it? No, she's Sheen.
Speaker 2: I'm me, No me not my name?
Speaker 1: Yo?
Speaker 3: What is your childhood?
Speaker 1: I have a show you life's going down before?
Speaker 4: Like you so round?
Speaker 2: Hey, Virgins is listening to us for an hour every week?
Speaker 2: Simply not enough? Well, you can get bonus content by
Speaker 2: becoming a patron at patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin.
Speaker 2: We do weekly bonus episodes. Currently we're doing recaps of
Speaker 2: and just like that on Fridays, and we have lots
Speaker 2: of fun additional bonus content in the work. So become
Speaker 2: a patron at patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
Speaker 3: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Fran Torato, I'm Rose
Speaker 3: Daumu and I heard that you went to the theater
Speaker 3: this weekend?
Speaker 1: Rose? Did you not the movie theater?
Speaker 2: I went to the movie theater last Thursday. Last Thursday,
Speaker 2: I saw Talk to Me on Thursday, which is oh,
Speaker 2: a twenty four horror film. It's sort of taking the
Speaker 2: world by storm. People are saying it's, you know, the
Speaker 2: scariest movie of the year, and they haven't been scared
Speaker 2: so much since Hereditary, and I'm here to say that
Speaker 2: they're carrying a bit okay, because it's a it's a
Speaker 2: good movie. I have a lot of fun, but it
Speaker 2: was not that scary and nothing about it is as
Speaker 2: disturbing as Hereditary was. But it is a scary movie.
Speaker 2: So I will I'll give you, like a a little
Speaker 2: brief synopsis.
Speaker 3: Comparing something to Hereditary really is setting yourself up for failure, honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: So Talk to Me is an Australian horror movie. It's
Speaker 2: an A twenty four movie. It's about this girl, this
Speaker 2: high school girl who's you know, still sort of grieving
Speaker 2: the loss of her mother. And she goes to a
Speaker 2: party and there's a new party game that all the
Speaker 2: kids are playing in which they take the hand of
Speaker 2: a psychic that has been cast in clay and they
Speaker 2: put their hand in it and they talk to me
Speaker 2: and then they are possessed by a spirit and they
Speaker 2: do this for ninety seconds to get a sort of
Speaker 2: rush of euphoria like a drug. If yes, like a drug.
Speaker 2: It's much like when I was in middle school and
Speaker 2: used to choke yourself and make yourself pass out to
Speaker 2: like get high, and then everyone did that for three weeks,
Speaker 2: and I think some people got suspended because of it.
Speaker 2: But so so, the whole thing is that if you
Speaker 2: go for longer than ninety seconds, then the ghosts don't
Speaker 2: want to leave. So it's very ooky, spooky, and of
Speaker 2: course things go awry and lots of shenanigans happen. And
Speaker 2: what I will say is it's a very clever premise
Speaker 2: for a horror movie. There are some good little scares.
Speaker 2: I mean, some parts of it were genuinely like kind
Speaker 2: of disturbing. I thought the acting was really good. It
Speaker 2: was funny, it was fun It was a good movie
Speaker 2: theater experience. That being said, I don't think I can
Speaker 2: take another horror movie that is a meditation on grief,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I get like horror movies, especially when
Speaker 2: you're brushing up against you know, like ghosts or spirits
Speaker 2: like of like, it makes a lot of sense to
Speaker 2: use characters who are dealing with grief, and this and
Speaker 2: the grief in this film like really dry the action
Speaker 2: of the movie because this girl is sort of tricked
Speaker 2: into believing she's talking to the spirit of her dead mother,
Speaker 2: and that causes a lot of the bad things in
Speaker 2: the film to happen. But I don't know, filmmakers, pick
Speaker 2: something else to meditate on in your horror movies that's
Speaker 2: not grief. The friend who I saw this movie with,
Speaker 2: who I think listens to this podcast, he will remember
Speaker 2: that the last horror movie we saw together before this
Speaker 2: movie was also a meditation on grief, which one was
Speaker 2: that The Boogeyman. It was also about a family where
Speaker 2: the mom was dead, and you know, they were like
Speaker 2: dealing with the fallout from it. So it's like, come,
Speaker 2: I know that I get it, and I know that
Speaker 2: a lot of horror media is driven by death and
Speaker 2: people dealing with death and grief. But I don't know,
Speaker 2: can you come up with something else?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think, But I did really like I did really
Speaker 2: like it. I just, you know, don't think it was amazing,
Speaker 2: but it was very fun and there was some sort
Speaker 2: of like trans mask non binary character in it, which way,
Speaker 2: it's a good it's a good year for that. Between
Speaker 2: this movie and Evil Dead Rise, which did you were
Speaker 2: you awake when we watched Evil Dead Rise?
Speaker 3: On that was the only movie that I got all
Speaker 3: the way through. Wow, the other one, I'm so depressed
Speaker 3: by you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. You do have a tendency too.
Speaker 2: In any group setting of more than I would say,
Speaker 2: three people watching a movie, you're making it through maybe
Speaker 2: the first act.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe maybe.
Speaker 3: But Evil Dead Rise I made it through, and I
Speaker 3: was constantly wondering about that non binary character. And well,
Speaker 3: Evil Dead Rise is also only an hour and a
Speaker 3: half long, as was this movie, which I read that
Speaker 3: I'm really happy that the ninety minute horror movie is
Speaker 3: back in vogue, because you know that, I don't think
Speaker 3: any movie should be longer than ninety minutes. Even though
Speaker 3: I loved Oppenheimer and loved that it was three hours
Speaker 3: long and d Avatar, I still would have taken a
Speaker 3: ninety minute cut of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Same, wait, is to you like if Talk to Me
Speaker 3: isn't like the horror movie of the year, Is there
Speaker 3: anything you've seen that would be?
Speaker 2: I think Evil Dead Rise was the horror movie of
Speaker 2: my year so far, just because it was.
Speaker 3: I had so much fun watching it. I'm looking to
Speaker 3: see if there's anything.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 3: Scream also came out this year. Technically, I'm looking to
Speaker 3: see if there's.
Speaker 1: Any dream was not the horror movie of the year,
Speaker 1: It was not.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to see if there's anything that we're anticipating
Speaker 3: later this year that would potentially be it, But.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I am currently watching a horror series that I can't
Speaker 2: talk about, but it is really good and it's scratching
Speaker 2: that itch. And Okay, are you feeling the This probably
Speaker 2: is not something that's happening in real life and is
Speaker 2: truly more about my TikTok algorithm, but are you feeling
Speaker 2: it all the very early transition into fall and by extension,
Speaker 2: spooky season, because I've been getting served a lot of
Speaker 2: it's spooky season is coming content like as soon as
Speaker 2: it was August first. That's not my algorithm, which is hilarious.
Speaker 2: But I will say across the board. Ever since you know,
Speaker 2: we got halfway through July, people are like, summer is over.
Speaker 2: Summer is over, which is.
Speaker 3: Slander Okay, like it stays hot through September. We have
Speaker 3: like the October yeah, and we have like the the
Speaker 3: equinox or whatever, it's the equinox when the equinox.
Speaker 2: Also today in New York it's it is rainy and
Speaker 2: a little a little chilly outside.
Speaker 1: I liked that though, No, me too. I absolutely love that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's honestly why I woke up so early.
Speaker 3: It's like the rain was coming down, and I think
Speaker 3: my body has like rain rainfold.
Speaker 2: I though I this weekend because this was so much
Speaker 2: in my TikTok algorithm, and also I was hibernating this
Speaker 2: weekend and still am following getting laser hair removal last
Speaker 2: week right in.
Speaker 1: My hermit era.
Speaker 2: You know that that led to this sort of desire
Speaker 2: to becomey and cozy and watching potentially spooky movies. Although
Speaker 2: I literally found myself googling good spooky movies to watch
Speaker 2: in August, which is like shy ah, there is some
Speaker 2: kind of brain rot that I'm like, think there's gonna
Speaker 2: be some kind of perfect answer to that.
Speaker 1: I slipped away like a bottle of blood. That's really good.
Speaker 2: I did end up watching The Wizard of Oz on
Speaker 2: Saturday before me, not because spooky, but because I follow
Speaker 2: this TikTok creator who is a Wizard of Oz collector,
Speaker 2: oh and only content about the Wizard of Oz and
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz adjacent media like Wicked and you like
Speaker 2: the creator. Oh, I love her. I'm obsessed with her.
Speaker 2: I watch every single TikTok she posts. Her name is
Speaker 2: the oz vlog and I love her content and I
Speaker 2: watch all of it. And I it did lead me
Speaker 2: to buy a McDonald's toy from the nineties of a
Speaker 2: Madame Alexander Wicked Witch of the West doll.
Speaker 1: And how much was that McDonald's toy?
Speaker 3: It was ten dollars A steal dolls be on eBay
Speaker 3: for cheat by the way, I honestly it's it's a
Speaker 3: worthwhile hobby.
Speaker 1: Have you collected anything recently? No, just I have two.
Speaker 1: I have two dolls.
Speaker 3: Now I guess I have some Brats dolls as well,
Speaker 3: so I technically have foury too.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Wait, I have to tell you and the Virgins. I
Speaker 2: recently acquired a toy that I have talked about on
Speaker 2: this podcast, and it was the Crone, the crones hollow
Speaker 2: action figure that infamously we know we talked about. I
Speaker 2: when I received it for Hanka one year, took it
Speaker 2: out of the box and put it back in the box,
Speaker 2: taped it shut, wrapped it so I could open it again.
Speaker 2: I bought one on eBay and now she is. It's
Speaker 2: a little disappointing because like the whole selling point of
Speaker 2: the action figures that you're supposed to be able to
Speaker 2: pull a tendril of hair in the back of her
Speaker 2: head and snake eyes would pop out, which like, that's
Speaker 2: what I do when I'm hanging out with a sexy
Speaker 2: am I right, but I think the toy is like
Speaker 2: a little too old for that function to work that well. Okay,
Speaker 2: but she does look great on my mantle, and I think, actually,
Speaker 2: maybe that's gonna be somewhat of the thematic link of
Speaker 2: my collection is like getting like witchy toys because I
Speaker 2: have her. I have a Willow action figure from Buffy, right,
Speaker 2: then I have my little Mermaid dolls, mantle Mermaid dolls
Speaker 2: and toys. But yeah, I did find myself on eBay
Speaker 2: this weekend looking up like vintage Halloween decorations and also
Speaker 2: like t shirts like the kind you would buy at
Speaker 2: the Hallmark store with like a Teddy Bear in a
Speaker 2: witch's hat.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's just kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 3: I love that for you, not my algorithm, but like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm buckled in for spooky season. You can bet that
Speaker 3: like a virgin LLC. I mean, Loretta LLC is gonna
Speaker 3: be absolutely doing something for spooky seasons.
Speaker 1: So we'll be doing a Halloween spook tacular.
Speaker 3: Spooktacular. I can't believe that we're already doing it again.
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe taking it on the road.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so keep on the lookout. Wait, so what's going
Speaker 1: on with you? Otherwise? You know you're like, there's something
Speaker 1: wrong with your foot? What else? What else is going on?
Speaker 3: I have like some sort of infected blister from being
Speaker 3: on Fire Island and walking on the boardwalk barefoot too
Speaker 3: many times.
Speaker 1: Babe, you can't do that. I know.
Speaker 3: I was wearing shoes for the most part, but I
Speaker 3: only brought two pair, which is a lot of restraint
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 1: I'm shocked.
Speaker 3: And then one of those pair was borrowed from a friend,
Speaker 3: so I didn't have I just was always barefoot. And yeah, anyways,
Speaker 3: long story short, I'm exhausted. All invasion took it the fuck.
Speaker 1: Out of me.
Speaker 3: I laid down for an uninterrupted three days, did not
Speaker 3: leave the house, didn't like. Yesterday was the first time
Speaker 3: I really went out since invasion, and like, what'd you do?
Speaker 3: I just went to Poppy Juice for a few hours
Speaker 3: and then left when my foot started to hurt more.
Speaker 1: But did you wear impractical shoes?
Speaker 3: Well, that depends on if you count the crop clog
Speaker 3: platforms that I sent you as in practical shoes.
Speaker 1: I do count those, don't they not have a sport
Speaker 1: mode drop?
Speaker 3: They don't, but they are much easier to walk in
Speaker 3: than the platform bay clause.
Speaker 1: Until you fall out of them. Well we'll see.
Speaker 3: I have yet to fall out of them, so yet
Speaker 3: there's still time. And yeah, no, I was really surprised
Speaker 3: by how actually comfortable those shoes are. But no, I'm
Speaker 3: not really up to anything. I've been reading poly secure.
Speaker 3: I've been balancing a budget for over a week, so
Speaker 3: I'm like sick of looking at spreadsheets. That's chasing expense expenses,
Speaker 3: chasing T shirt sizes like and then speaking of Polly.
Speaker 2: Secure virgins, fran is going to talk about it or
Speaker 2: or did talk about it on our most or on
Speaker 2: an upcoming or most recent Patreon up. I can't really
Speaker 2: keep the schedule my head. But just you know, another
Speaker 2: reminder to become a patron at patre on dot com
Speaker 2: slash like a virgin. We're now over five hundred patrons.
Speaker 3: Which is a huge deal. Like it is like just
Speaker 3: the small pledge of many people that make this something
Speaker 3: that we can actually not necessarily live off yet, but
Speaker 3: at the very least have a passive source of income
Speaker 3: so that we feel like we're being compensated for our work.
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being a Patreon if you want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also we just we we know that you
Speaker 2: just want to listen to us talk, so we're giving
Speaker 2: you more opportunities to do that.
Speaker 3: We honestly though, rose to be honest, like you and
Speaker 3: I are overdue for like an actual like a hang like.
Speaker 1: We know we do need to hang out this week.
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is Fire Island was like a like
Speaker 3: we binged each other.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Well I realized when I saw you on Friday when
Speaker 2: we recorded that I hadn't seen you since my birthday.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, but I was basically I went like
Speaker 3: straight back to Fire Island and was there for a while.
Speaker 3: So that's where I was gone to. Can we talk
Speaker 3: about Crappy Lake here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm having so much fun with it.
Speaker 3: It's pretty good, right, Like I really was a hundred
Speaker 3: I'm as someone who's not a really big real housewives.
Speaker 3: Stan you yourself, you're like not a Real Housewives girly,
Speaker 3: but you are Sonya and Luan Gurly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they are top tier, like they are the
Speaker 2: a team of housewives. And putting that in the context
Speaker 2: of essentially the simple life, h is it just works
Speaker 2: really well for me. Also, I'm looking right now at
Speaker 2: my lease renewal that my management company sent me and
Speaker 2: they're raising my rent two hundred dollars. Oh girl, that's
Speaker 2: nothing compared to what everybody else I know. I know,
Speaker 2: but like it still galls me because raising it for
Speaker 2: what what have you given me? I think you can
Speaker 2: still honestly very well tell them that. I mean, the
Speaker 2: worst you can do that the least you can do
Speaker 2: is ask and be like, hey, I see the rent increase.
Speaker 2: I just want to know what you are doing as
Speaker 2: management to improve our circumstances to warrant this this rent right,
Speaker 2: because the thing is I have an ongoing issue at
Speaker 2: my apartment that still has not been solved. You should
Speaker 2: tell them that I have the buzzer button at the
Speaker 2: front buzzer for my apartment gets stuck and goes off
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night all the time, like
Speaker 2: all the time, and I have asked the maintenance people
Speaker 2: and the super to fix it so many times. And
Speaker 2: the last time I asked about it, they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: I guess we're gonna have to call the manufacturer.
Speaker 1: And I was like, so call them, Like what, what's
Speaker 1: not clicking? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I honestly, I'm just I'm someone who's just like always
Speaker 3: ask and if you have an okay relationship with your management.
Speaker 2: They only need never talk. I have ever interacted with them, well,
Speaker 2: I mean because it's like a big management company that
Speaker 2: manages multiple buildings and I've never interfaced with them.
Speaker 3: Well, there's like they only need a certain number of
Speaker 3: people to like accept the rent rise. Right, So if
Speaker 3: you come back to them and you say sorry, this
Speaker 3: is like unsolicited advice. If you go back to them
Speaker 3: and you just say, hey, like first time meeting, I
Speaker 3: plan to stay here for much longer, would you like,
Speaker 3: I don't understand. Can you help me understand what this
Speaker 3: rent rise is going toward considering the things that have not.
Speaker 1: Been improved upon.
Speaker 3: And honestly, they could just look at you and be like,
Speaker 3: we don't want to deal with this girl, and then
Speaker 3: just let you pay the same.
Speaker 2: Well, that's very generous of you to think they would
Speaker 2: gender me correctly. Yeah, I don't even the Realistically, I
Speaker 2: will probably just accept it, you know, like you don't
Speaker 2: want the headache. I don't want the headache. I don't
Speaker 2: want to have to send well because realistically, I think
Speaker 2: that if I I tried calling them or emailing them,
Speaker 2: they would just ignore me the way they did when
Speaker 2: I repeatedly asked after I moved in for a copy
Speaker 2: of my lease. And this is actually the first I've
Speaker 2: ever heard from them, was receiving this renewal in the mail.
Speaker 1: Ooh that's annoying, ye, but expected it's not going to happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: New York, Am I right? New York? Am I right?
Speaker 1: Property ownership? Am I right? Ladies? Wow? Fuck that whatever?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what helps me get through it
Speaker 2: is Katy Perry. The music of Katy Perry, which is
Speaker 2: what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1: That was such an amazing transition. Rose. I'm a professional podcaster,
Speaker 1: that's what you do.
Speaker 2: Maybe I can still remember where I was the first
Speaker 2: time I heard I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry,
Speaker 2: and I was on a rock in Central Park. You know,
Speaker 2: one of the big rocks.
Speaker 1: On a rock, one of the big rocks and rock.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't know why I remember this so specifically,
Speaker 2: but I had been hearing about this, you know, new
Speaker 2: song that was taking the world by storm, which it was,
Speaker 2: and you know, I think I should say this as
Speaker 2: we start out this exploration of miss Catherine Hudson in
Speaker 2: her career.
Speaker 1: I am a Katie Cat. You are not friends.
Speaker 3: I am not a Katie Cat in the sense that
Speaker 3: I'm not actually that familiar with her discography, but I
Speaker 3: am familiar with her place in pop music on the
Speaker 3: record breaking level, and how she did kind of grow
Speaker 3: to become this perfect pop product that I think a
Speaker 3: lot of pop stars buyer too and wish they could
Speaker 3: pull off. I feel like in a lot of ways,
Speaker 3: Katy Perry was really in the right place at the
Speaker 3: right time. But honestly, to go back to I Kissed
Speaker 3: a Girl like, I mean, the reason you remember that
Speaker 3: moment is because the.
Speaker 1: Song is psychotic. The song is iconic.
Speaker 3: I put it on literally last week and it's still
Speaker 3: so good. Slap so hard, The little guitar riff is
Speaker 3: catchy as fuck. And you know, this probably wasn't your
Speaker 3: experience of it I don't really remember the first time
Speaker 3: I heard it, but I do remember just being like, oh,
Speaker 3: this like anthem to like godless Heathenism.
Speaker 2: By Katie Fairy, which is so funny because it is
Speaker 2: incredibly tame and grata, not even like at the at
Speaker 2: the moment, I do think there was sort of, you know,
Speaker 2: like a conservative fur about it promoting homosexuality, when in
Speaker 2: fact it is, if anything, promoting heterosexuality, yes, yes, very
Speaker 2: suresexual experience, yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: guessed the girl like it's not it. It was the
Speaker 2: thing that launched her career in a way. But it's
Speaker 2: funny that of when we look back at Katie's career,
Speaker 2: even though she blew up in such an extreme way
Speaker 2: right at the beginning. And I do think one of
Speaker 2: the boys, her debut album is incredible, it is definitely
Speaker 2: not the thing she's most remembered for. Like the crystallization
Speaker 2: of Katy Perry is Teenage Dream, Teenage.
Speaker 3: Dream in that album, Yes, subsequent like seventeen singles that
Speaker 3: came from that Algo album.
Speaker 2: It's one of the most successful albums of all time.
Speaker 2: I believe it like beat some record that Michael Jackson
Speaker 2: held for the most singles from a single album on
Speaker 2: like the Billboard hotwit hundred.
Speaker 3: Argue that it by chart standards, it is the most
Speaker 3: successful album of all time, because yeah, it broke Michael
Speaker 3: Jackson's held record for the most number one singles.
Speaker 1: On an album.
Speaker 3: I honestly, you know, everybody knows who Katy Perry is.
Speaker 3: And by the way, forgive my very soul tree voice
Speaker 3: on this podcast because I I'm a little not under
Speaker 3: the weather, but I you know, party too hard this
Speaker 3: last weekend at Dull Invasion. But Katie Berry started out
Speaker 3: for the Virgins as a Christian music artist.
Speaker 1: Going by her her dead, her dead Catherine Hudson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was maybe not my introduction to her,
Speaker 3: but I remember learning.
Speaker 1: It wasn't anyone's introduction.
Speaker 3: But but but it was close because I remember when
Speaker 3: I kissed a girl came out and being me being like,
Speaker 3: who is this woman making Satanic music?
Speaker 1: At that time?
Speaker 3: I remember being I remember finding out very quickly because
Speaker 3: the circles I ran in that she used to be
Speaker 3: a Christian music artist and that was her. I believe
Speaker 3: she released one album as a Christian music artist, maybe
Speaker 3: to think so, and she at the time on top
Speaker 3: of being very religious as a consequence of her family,
Speaker 3: she also was dating my crush, my very first crush,
Speaker 3: Matt Teasen, who's the lead singer of the Christian rock
Speaker 3: music band Relying, Kay, did you know that?
Speaker 1: I did not know that.
Speaker 2: I only am sort of vaguely aware of Reliant K.
Speaker 2: I read that being jealous. I was like, how dare you?
Speaker 1: Makes sense? My man? And I think her.
Speaker 2: I've never listened to her Catherine Hudson music, but I
Speaker 2: know that it's very singer songwritery, and that does linger
Speaker 2: on in her pop music.
Speaker 1: Like One of the Boys is.
Speaker 2: Very much a pop rock album, like much more so
Speaker 2: than her later music would be. And One of the
Speaker 2: Boys has some incredible bangers on it, like thinking of
Speaker 2: You is on One of the Boys, The title track
Speaker 2: is so good, waking Up in Vegas incredible, Thinking of
Speaker 2: You like one of the best songs ever written, Hot
Speaker 2: and Cold, Hot and Cold, You're so gay.
Speaker 3: You're so gay? And then I forgot that there was
Speaker 3: on this album.
Speaker 2: And then you know, when she went into teenage dream,
Speaker 2: which really like was the thing that made her who
Speaker 2: she is in the way that we like that that
Speaker 2: is the crystallization of the image of her in pop
Speaker 2: culture that we have like the Blue Wig, the California
Speaker 2: Girls of it all that is much more pop and
Speaker 2: like when pop was also starting to flirt with like
Speaker 2: ed M a little bit.
Speaker 3: It was Gaga ying, you know, blue Wig is a
Speaker 3: Gaga zance kind of I think.
Speaker 1: Can't you can't be a zance?
Speaker 2: If got that was Gaga's first like entree, so it's
Speaker 2: not a zance.
Speaker 3: I felt, well, no, first of all, you're correct, we
Speaker 3: shouldn't be calling everything a szance. But that was Gaga's
Speaker 3: moment like no, no, no, I know it's on the
Speaker 3: scene and zancing.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, no, Gaga was gaga ing, but she wasn't
Speaker 2: zancing because she had never been before.
Speaker 3: Oh oh, because it wasn't a return thank you, okay,
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you. Clarification. Language is important and I
Speaker 3: appreciate you. No custody account.
Speaker 2: All the girls were doing that at that point. It
Speaker 2: was Gaga.
Speaker 3: Katie Nikkia tried to get on it.
Speaker 1: She did with Bionique.
Speaker 2: I didn't actually realize because I did watch burlesque for
Speaker 2: the first time this Oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Ryan.
Speaker 2: My friend Ryan told me that I didn't realize that
Speaker 2: came out like in the middle of the Bionic era.
Speaker 2: We're doing a burlesque episode, by the way, we should well,
Speaker 2: yeah we should.
Speaker 1: We should have to. I want to rewatch anymore.
Speaker 2: Maybe we should just do like a Christina episode and
Speaker 2: burlesque into it.
Speaker 3: It could also, Oh that's really smart. It could also
Speaker 3: just be like it could be like a burlesque and
Speaker 3: movies that Burlessue copied off of.
Speaker 1: Like Coyote.
Speaker 2: It literally took the scrip from Kyodeug and just changed
Speaker 2: the details. Also like stole characters from Cabaret, like and
Speaker 2: it literally stole out character.
Speaker 1: Okay, back to back to Katy Harry.
Speaker 2: So Teenage Dream is like one of the most successful
Speaker 2: albums of all time. It also coincided with her being
Speaker 2: a huge figure in the tabloids. This was her her
Speaker 2: marriage to Russell Brand and then the dissolution of it.
Speaker 1: Was Jean Mayer after Russell Brand.
Speaker 3: I think so okay, I don't know the dating timeline
Speaker 3: and Teenage Dream, you know, spawned so many hits, Like
Speaker 3: obviously the title track California Girls was the I think
Speaker 3: the first single that was a huge moment.
Speaker 2: Last Friday night when Katie started doing her like I
Speaker 2: don't know her, like not alter ego, but she was
Speaker 2: like trying to be kooky a little.
Speaker 3: Bit, like like not like being completely willing to put
Speaker 3: herself in ugly makeup and to be doofy and to
Speaker 3: lean into the doofiness, which I think was something that
Speaker 3: no other pop star on the scene was doing, like
Speaker 3: even Gaga. Gaga was very self serious in some ways.
Speaker 3: She was pulling stunts, she was doing crazy avant garde things,
Speaker 3: but she wasn't doofy. I feel and Katie loves to
Speaker 3: be doofy.
Speaker 1: I think it's an essential part of her brand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she Well, there's a an element of like childishness
Speaker 2: or like left Shark last Friday Night.
Speaker 3: A great example that the you know, the giant singing
Speaker 3: poop in her Vegas residency, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she that that like the case, and I do
Speaker 2: think that originated with California girls, Like the whole Candyland
Speaker 2: thing that what and the blue wig like that became
Speaker 2: her most iconic and marketable aesthetic.
Speaker 1: Like there's a reason why.
Speaker 2: That's the whole vibe of her Super Bowl halftime show,
Speaker 2: which I.
Speaker 1: Do still think is one of.
Speaker 2: The better pop Diva halftime shows because it's it's so
Speaker 2: smartly brings together the right songs from her catalog and
Speaker 2: Missy Elliot and Missy Elliott in the perfect like encapsulation
Speaker 2: of them for that event and that audience.
Speaker 3: And the left Shark meme, Like the meme was a
Speaker 3: part of the experience and impact of that show.
Speaker 1: Because Katie is a meme queen and she likes memes.
Speaker 1: She leans into whats doofy?
Speaker 3: Honestly, you've You've named something that I think is really
Speaker 3: important to like kind of lay out for the virgins,
Speaker 3: which is the moment before and after she put on
Speaker 3: the blue wig. I feel like it was like a
Speaker 3: pivotal moment in her career. And I think that's something.
Speaker 1: That's like Darth Vader putting on the helmet, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I feel.
Speaker 3: Now I'm imagining her as a villain, which she would be.
Speaker 3: So does Katy Perry ever act in movies? She would
Speaker 3: be so good as like a villain in like.
Speaker 2: No, she hasn't. She's only acted in her own music videos.
Speaker 2: And I'm surprised because she does have like and I
Speaker 2: know we're we're not really like sticking to the chronology
Speaker 2: of her career. I'm like jumping ahead a little, but
Speaker 2: in the later years, she's you know, she's now been
Speaker 2: a judge on American Idol for a couple of years,
Speaker 2: and on that, like she does kind of play a
Speaker 2: version of herself in a way that I imagine like
Speaker 2: is very heightened but perfect for TV, and she's actually
Speaker 2: very good at doing that job. I think she's the
Speaker 2: best of those three modern day judges.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. She is first and foremost a
Speaker 3: commercial artist. American Idol is one of the most commercial
Speaker 3: musical pieces of IP in America, and it only made
Speaker 3: sense for her to do that in the capacity that
Speaker 3: she still is.
Speaker 1: Doing that question mark. Yes, she's still doing it. She's
Speaker 1: still doing it, and so okay, yeah, she just signed
Speaker 1: on I think for the next season.
Speaker 3: But something to know about Katy Perry is that she's
Speaker 3: literally always strive for megalomania pop stardom. This was always
Speaker 3: in the plan. It was always what she wanted to do.
Speaker 3: And from what I understand, when she released One of
Speaker 3: the Boys, is that.
Speaker 1: What it's called her debut.
Speaker 3: When she released that debut under Katy Perry One of
Speaker 3: the Boys, she before that had kind of I think
Speaker 3: her managers and players that be had been thinking about
Speaker 3: her in this kind of and this is really amazing,
Speaker 3: like an Alanis kind of Lane or like Jewel, Yeah, Jewel,
Speaker 3: Michelle Branch even almost Amy Winehouse like girl with a
Speaker 3: guitar singing soulfully, which.
Speaker 1: We do not know Katy Perry for today.
Speaker 3: And I think at a certain point she right at
Speaker 3: the time she was putting on this blue wig and
Speaker 3: after her singles from for the Boys had kind of
Speaker 3: like popped off, got a new manager that I was
Speaker 3: always that was already rapping all these major people very
Speaker 3: very ambitiously like chase this person hard in order to
Speaker 3: like achieve what she did with Teenage Dream and with
Speaker 3: the Blue Wig. And the Blue Wig was really this
Speaker 3: like aha moment I think where it's like, this is
Speaker 3: the product I'm selling, this is the art I'm destined
Speaker 3: to make, this is what I'm gonna do with it.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the thing about Katie Perry is that
Speaker 2: you it's not hard to pick up that she is
Speaker 2: a try hard. I think that is very much the
Speaker 2: that she gives off in the in the pop space.
Speaker 2: She wants it so bad, but in a different way
Speaker 2: from how badly Gaga wanted it, which is funny because
Speaker 2: they were at war a little bit for a moment
Speaker 2: which we're going to get into.
Speaker 1: We will get into.
Speaker 2: Okay, have you ever seen her concert? Of course documentary
Speaker 2: part of me? Of course, everybody cries at the same part.
Speaker 1: It's so.
Speaker 2: It's so effective at what it does while you're watching it.
Speaker 2: The second you have some space from it, you are
Speaker 2: like can like wash your hands of it.
Speaker 1: But in the moment when you're watching.
Speaker 2: It, it is so effective as essentially propaganda about this woman.
Speaker 3: And I would say, I want to know if you
Speaker 3: agree with this statement. I would say that in the
Speaker 3: grand scheme of other pop music documentaries that came out subsequently,
Speaker 3: that Gaga five foot two and Taylor Smiths Americana wish
Speaker 3: they could have accomplished what Katie achieved with that doc
Speaker 3: Like absolutely, I love the other docks. I also felt
Speaker 3: that they were effective in different ways at helping us
Speaker 3: paint the human portrait of this pop star. But what
Speaker 3: Katie did with that documentary completely reimagined her for me
Speaker 3: and painted her as this human that I could then
Speaker 3: see and the heartbreak that she carried.
Speaker 1: While also knowing that she is, like, you know, very dumb. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I like her brand is very dumb. I
Speaker 1: think I think, yes it is.
Speaker 2: And I think the reason why it succeeds in a
Speaker 2: way that those other two didn't is that it's not
Speaker 2: just a documentary.
Speaker 1: It's also a concert film. So you're never you're.
Speaker 2: Never asked to extricate Katie Perry the person from the
Speaker 2: product that she's peddling, which is her music, And that's
Speaker 2: why I think it works so well. Yeah, I need
Speaker 2: to see Katie. You've seen Katie. I've never seen Katie girl.
Speaker 2: I almost went to Witness tour. I remember Ryan and
Speaker 2: I saw that there were tickets to see Witness at
Speaker 2: Barclay Center No for like twenty eight dollars, and for
Speaker 2: some reason we didn't buy them. And I regret that
Speaker 2: to this day because because I.
Speaker 1: Love Witness and I think it is. I think it is.
Speaker 2: I think it is criminally maligned. I have a lot
Speaker 2: of opinions about how the rollout should have been different,
Speaker 2: and like, obviously the purposeful pop of it all is
Speaker 2: this right after Teenage Dream, No No No, So the
Speaker 2: sequence of Katie's albums are one of the boys Teenage
Speaker 2: Dream Prism, Witness and Smile Lol. And I think Prism
Speaker 2: is important because it's the last hugely commercially successful album
Speaker 2: in Katie's discography. Like yes, Witness had huge hits, but
Speaker 2: not on the level that Prism did. And and Prism
Speaker 2: was really the last time that she was on top
Speaker 2: in the way that she was when Teenage Dream came out,
Speaker 2: and it, you know, it has its like like roor
Speaker 2: obviously walking on air, I mean not walking on air.
Speaker 2: Walking on airs a hate to me. It went triple
Speaker 2: platinum in my home and still does to this day.
Speaker 2: I mean, dark Horse is like one of her biggest
Speaker 2: songs of all times, even though it's.
Speaker 4: Incredibly dumb, so isolated.
Speaker 2: Single era of Katie is post Witness, pre Smile That's
Speaker 2: Never Really Over, which I do believe is the best
Speaker 2: song she's ever written, if not the greatest song written. No,
Speaker 2: it's an incredible pop songs. And then she also did
Speaker 2: small Talk, which was written with Charlie Pute Charlie poof
Speaker 2: Puth that little Thought, straight thought and is not I
Speaker 2: don't love it. And then I guess Harley's in a
Speaker 2: Hawaii was also kind of that era. But then she
Speaker 2: put Harley's in Hawaii, and I love Harley's in Hawaii.
Speaker 1: I think it's very sexy.
Speaker 2: But then she put Harley's in Hawaii on Smile, so
Speaker 2: it doesn't really count. But Prism is the era where
Speaker 2: she started to get in trouble a little bit, because
Speaker 2: that was when she started to not even flirt but
Speaker 2: fuck with cultural appropriation the most, which is the thing
Speaker 2: that has really dogged Katie Perry, I think more than
Speaker 2: any other criticism, because you know the fact that she
Speaker 2: killed a nun, even that you know the music video
Speaker 2: for this is how we do the performs in which
Speaker 2: she like dressed up as a gaisha. You know she
Speaker 2: she is. She's very dumb. She's she's extremely dumb. She
Speaker 2: makes a lot of bad decisions in her career, but
Speaker 2: she also makes great pop music.
Speaker 3: I say this as a complete virgin to Katie. Do
Speaker 3: you feel like Prism was kind of her art pop?
Speaker 3: Like it was kind of the thing that people were like,
Speaker 3: what is this? It has some hits, but also like,
Speaker 3: I don't get it.
Speaker 2: No, Witness is her art pop because she yeah, because
Speaker 2: Witness was the album completely misunderstood. Witness was the album
Speaker 2: where purposeful pop, which I also realized I was talking
Speaker 2: to this about someone the other day.
Speaker 1: Barbie is purposeful pop. Barbie is witness. It is the whole,
Speaker 1: the whole soundtrack.
Speaker 2: Yet Barbie is I'm with her, and Katie Perry is
Speaker 2: nothing if not I'm with her, I'm with her. Katy
Speaker 2: Perry is with her. No witness is Katie thinking she's
Speaker 2: an artist, thinking she's making a statement about the world.
Speaker 2: She did that whole thing where she was in a
Speaker 2: house for like for a week and was filmed constantly,
Speaker 2: and like did therapy on camera, like talk to RuPaul, doctor.
Speaker 1: Raball, and everyone's so crazy eating breakfast alone on camera.
Speaker 2: There's so many amazing memes from that. And I mean
Speaker 2: also that was when she cut her hair.
Speaker 1: She shaved her hair. She didn't shave it.
Speaker 2: She cut it short because really she was She had
Speaker 2: long hair in the Chaine to the Rhythm video and
Speaker 2: then her hair got super fried so she had to
Speaker 2: cut it all off. And like, like, culturally we have
Speaker 2: agreed upon this. I guess that I don't really agree with,
Speaker 2: which is that cutting her hair off was what led
Speaker 2: to her downfall. I mean, I do, I do believe,
Speaker 2: and she has embraced this in recent years that she
Speaker 2: is at her best when she is fitting into the
Speaker 2: mold that we like first knew her at, which is
Speaker 2: the long dark hair, like that is her, that is
Speaker 2: her love Thante. You know she did not almost kind
Speaker 2: of like black black hair. Well, I mean she did
Speaker 2: a lot, especially in one of the Boys. She really
Speaker 2: leaned into the like pin up girl Betty Page look,
Speaker 2: and that was not a look that was happening with
Speaker 2: any of the other pop girls. And she really did
Speaker 2: set a lane for herself by being the only brunette
Speaker 2: diva we had. And it's crazy that that is like.
Speaker 1: Enough name another brunette diva.
Speaker 2: I actually I was I read somebody yesterday by saying
Speaker 2: that they were very brunette.
Speaker 1: I don't remember who it was, but it is a reed.
Speaker 2: It is a read, but some for some people at works,
Speaker 2: and it worked for Katie. And she did kind of
Speaker 2: stray from God's light when she had that blonde pixie cut, and.
Speaker 1: I mean I prayed from God.
Speaker 2: I do love the moment in the bone Apatite video
Speaker 2: where they cut her her braid off when she's being
Speaker 2: like turned into food and then like from yeah, and
Speaker 2: then from that, I mean, it's wait what was that
Speaker 2: in James, James, you've never seen them. Oh yeah, she's
Speaker 2: like getting prepared to be put into food and she
Speaker 2: has this long braid and they cut it off and
Speaker 2: then she comes out with her short hair and it's
Speaker 2: like very weird.
Speaker 1: Okay, girl, I've never seen that video.
Speaker 3: But also when you first said that sentence, I immediately
Speaker 3: assumed that she was in a viral boneapp petit dot
Speaker 3: com YouTube video with like Grossy Pelosi or whatever the fun.
Speaker 2: Like, God, remember when Bonappetite was like the biggest thing
Speaker 2: on YouTube.
Speaker 1: It kind of still is, like they may not they
Speaker 1: make all their money on.
Speaker 2: You, not not in the way it was for a
Speaker 2: moment when like maybe it was everyone's when it was
Speaker 2: before they got canceled, when it was everyone's like comfort
Speaker 2: YouTube thing, like there was the whole cast of characters
Speaker 2: that I mean that was I used to watch all
Speaker 2: the videos.
Speaker 3: I didn't, but I know it was a moment. Okay, wait, okay,
Speaker 3: back to Witness. So we have this moment of misunderstanding.
Speaker 3: She gets the producers of the Real World, Big Brother,
Speaker 3: question Mark Real Well, she gets the producers of one
Speaker 3: of those major reality TV shows and kind of replicates
Speaker 3: its formula by putting a bunch of extremely random celebrities
Speaker 3: into one place over the course of what.
Speaker 1: No, it's just her, but her and people sort of
Speaker 1: come in and interact.
Speaker 3: Wasn't this also like dinner with like Caitlyn Jenner and
Speaker 3: Amber Amber what's her face? And like, yes, like all
Speaker 3: these random people at dinner, RuPaul coming, iab Yes, it
Speaker 3: was a lot of people coming in and out of
Speaker 3: the house, and she was like trying to I feel like, okay,
Speaker 3: so I actually want to get to the bottom of
Speaker 3: like what exactly she was trying to do with the
Speaker 3: quote unquote purposeful pop thing, because to me, it kind
Speaker 3: of felt like she was like feeling that she was
Speaker 3: losing her feeling that she was losing her relevance, maybe
Speaker 3: also feeling the level of hatred now careening towards her
Speaker 3: as literally just a.
Speaker 1: Woman in the music industry, honestly.
Speaker 3: Who was also maybe said or done a few things
Speaker 3: that are culturally insensitive, and in that She's like, let
Speaker 3: me produce this thing wherein I'm actually one hundred percent
Speaker 3: real myself.
Speaker 1: For how long was the stream, I don't remember.
Speaker 3: I think it was a few days, and then she
Speaker 3: broadcast her literal life, like her eating breakfast, taking a shit,
Speaker 3: going to therapy in this weird house with Kaitlyn Jenner,
Speaker 3: where people like Kaitlyn Jenner, RuPaul, et cetera all came
Speaker 3: to visit, and then everyone was like, what the fuck
Speaker 3: is happening?
Speaker 2: Well, the reasoning behind witness and purposeful pop and her
Speaker 2: feeling like she had to create music with a message
Speaker 2: is not hard to parse the root of Like it
Speaker 2: came out in twenty seventeen, so like Clinton and Trump. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so's it's post Hillary losing, Trump winning, and like all
Speaker 2: of these people, Katy Perry among them, feeling like they
Speaker 2: needed to reckon with that, and some they for the
Speaker 2: first time in their lives probably they felt like they
Speaker 2: needed to like reckon with what was happening in the
Speaker 2: world in their art or you know, if I'm being
Speaker 2: really cynical, just her looking around at the world and
Speaker 2: like licking her finger and putting her and putting it
Speaker 2: up to the air and sort of like taking the
Speaker 2: cultural temperature and saying, oh, I don't think it's actually
Speaker 2: enough for me to slap a blue wig on and
Speaker 2: sing a good pop song anymore. If I'm gonna be relevant.
Speaker 2: It has to be something more. And I don't think
Speaker 2: that Impulse is wrong. It's wrong, but it's just that
Speaker 2: it's just that she didn't have anything to say.
Speaker 1: Like if you look at the actual lyrics for Chain
Speaker 1: to the Rhythm, Girl, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you look at the actual content of Witness,
Speaker 2: it's not there's nothing in there that that is saying anything. Like, yes,
Speaker 2: chain to the Rhythm is sort of about like feeling
Speaker 2: like you're like a drone in the world and like
Speaker 2: you're just sort of like going along with everything but
Speaker 2: so comfortable.
Speaker 1: We'll live in it in a bubble bubble.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But nothing else on Witness really is that at all.
Speaker 2: And like I do really like Witness, Like there are
Speaker 2: great songs i Witness. I think Tsunami is one of
Speaker 2: her sexiest songs. I think Roulette and Deja Vous were
Speaker 2: both incredible, and if one of them had been the
Speaker 2: lead single of the album, I do think it would
Speaker 2: have been received very differently. I hate Hey, Hey Hey,
Speaker 2: and I have it blocked on Spotify so that it
Speaker 2: never comes off when I'm listening to Katie Perry. I
Speaker 2: even do like change the Rhythm. I like Bonappetite, I
Speaker 2: don't love Swish Swish. Oh my god, remember the Swish
Speaker 2: Swish SNL performance featuring a lot of mcgriddles.
Speaker 1: Not a lot of mcgriddles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a bunch of queens or Metropolitan performed with
Speaker 2: her on SNL, A lot of mcgriddles who used to
Speaker 2: do a cover of Bitch I'm Madonna called bitch Ie Alatta,
Speaker 2: which is one.
Speaker 3: Of my favorite thing about Heran shit, I that's amazing.
Speaker 3: I okay, I okay. This this album, Witness came out
Speaker 3: like like during Trump's during the election.
Speaker 2: It's seventeen, No, it came out. No, twenty sixteen was
Speaker 2: the election. So twenty seventeen was, you know, after he'd
Speaker 2: been inaugurated. Oh duh, okay, okay, sorry, So it's like
Speaker 2: so it's it's very directly, you know, and in spot
Speaker 2: in response to the beginning of the Trump era. And
Speaker 2: I think more it more than Trump winning. It's inspired
Speaker 2: by Hillary losing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she was famously on the Hillary train, which
Speaker 3: felt kind of a direct response to Taylor Swift's silence
Speaker 3: on the Hillary Train.
Speaker 2: Oh, we haven't talked about the tailor of the feud.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, I want to get to that.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say, with the witness and purposeful
Speaker 3: pop thing, It's like it felt like, you know, she
Speaker 3: released I feel like in twenty seventeen, I don't know
Speaker 3: how you were feeling, but I was still very raw,
Speaker 3: Like I was angry all the time, all day every day.
Speaker 3: I was like working my fucking ass off, like trying
Speaker 3: to figure out how to live in the world safely
Speaker 3: with my friends, which sounds dramatic and is annoying to
Speaker 3: say now because like Trump feels like such a bygone
Speaker 3: era even though it's so present. But it's almost like
Speaker 3: when Katie released changed the Rhythm and these empty, empty
Speaker 3: lyrics along with it, talking about purposeful pop is like
Speaker 3: you really missed.
Speaker 1: I feel like she really missed the mark. You were
Speaker 1: totally right. It's like, wasn't the wrong impulse. It's like
Speaker 1: she actually could have pulled something.
Speaker 3: Off the but the lyrics and the actual message didn't
Speaker 3: have any Like there was no substance, no bones, no teeth,
Speaker 3: Like it didn't feel good.
Speaker 1: And it just wasn't in line and any of the
Speaker 1: art she had produced before.
Speaker 3: And change the Rhythm is a pretty it's a good song. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love that song, but it just didn't. It didn't
Speaker 3: transcend as what's her face would say, who's the Zionist
Speaker 3: that did the Imagine music video?
Speaker 1: Oh, gal Gado, gal Gado. It didn't transcends.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised Katie wasn't in the Imagine video. She's the
Speaker 2: Imagine video is very purposeful pop.
Speaker 1: She didn't send them the video.
Speaker 2: The the things that are purposeful pop obviously the Barbie movie,
Speaker 2: all of RuPaul's discography. No, I'm just no, no, not
Speaker 2: not RuPaul's discography, but every time they bring up the
Speaker 2: vote sign at the end of the set of Dragon,
Speaker 2: that's purposeful pop.
Speaker 1: Everybody say, love Taylor.
Speaker 2: Swift's activism of any kind is purposeful pop?
Speaker 1: What activism? Well, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: I'm like, purposeful pop. That's a really good prompt. Maybe
Speaker 3: on this most recent Billie Eilish album where she had
Speaker 3: like a kind of spoken word song about the media
Speaker 3: critiquing her body. Yeah, I was like, okay, purposeful pop
Speaker 3: and Chris saying he's never going to play a gay
Speaker 3: character again.
Speaker 2: That's purpose and win again. Emmy, Yeah, that's purposeful pop.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So Katie versus Taylor, well, Katie versus Gaga first, so
Speaker 2: that really like the whole thing around that is that
Speaker 2: applause and roar came out at the same time, and
Speaker 2: they this was We've talked about this before in the pod,
Speaker 2: but this was in the days where the girls beefed
Speaker 2: on Twitter, and so that was just like, that's what happened.
Speaker 2: But then Katie versus Taylor, do you know what the
Speaker 2: origin of the few isn't okay? So according to the lore,
Speaker 2: like we don't know, neither of them have ever said
Speaker 2: publicly what it was about, but we all know what
Speaker 2: it's about, and it is about what John Mayer. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: it's about dancers.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: So allegedly, so before this they were cool, but allegedly
Speaker 2: Katie tried to ruin Taylor's red horror by poaching dancers
Speaker 2: for her Prismatic World tour, and then allegedly bad Blood
Speaker 2: is Bad Blood was Taylor firing back at Katie.
Speaker 3: Fully addressing like, there's no, I don't think there is
Speaker 3: any discrepancy that Bad Blood is about Katie Hair. And
Speaker 3: that's why, to this day, many of us believe that
Speaker 3: when reputation Taylor's version, no not. Many of us believe
Speaker 3: that when nineteen eighty nine, Taylor's version comes out, Katy
Speaker 3: Perry will be featured on Bad Blood, Oh, which would
Speaker 3: be if she didn't do it'd be such a mised
Speaker 3: opportunity because remember her. Remember when Katie came out in
Speaker 3: the you Need to Calm Down video and like yes,
Speaker 3: and it was such a moment, even more so than
Speaker 3: Taylor being like I love gays, I love no That
Speaker 3: was the thing, is like, actually the video could have
Speaker 3: been so good if it Trot didn't try to do
Speaker 3: the LGBTQ thingg.
Speaker 2: I think it was just about Taylor and Katie. It
Speaker 2: was just like so shoe horned in. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: very purposeful pop. But the Katie reveal was immaculate, Like.
Speaker 1: It was so good. I was I screamed, And wasn't
Speaker 1: she in the mosquito French Fries costume?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, Katie was dressed as the burger and
Speaker 2: Taylor was dressed as the French Fries.
Speaker 1: Incredable. It was so good.
Speaker 2: I mean, it ran the news cycle for a long
Speaker 2: time and like I I loved that.
Speaker 3: And do you think that was the eradication of their beef?
Speaker 3: Do you think it no longer exists?
Speaker 2: I think they had probably worked things out before that.
Speaker 2: And then they waited for the strategic moment to roll
Speaker 2: out their reconnection.
Speaker 1: I still have goosebums thinking about Katy.
Speaker 3: Perry on Bad Blood nineteen eighty nine is probably it's
Speaker 3: the Taylor Seft album that got me, and it's probably
Speaker 3: still my favorite album. Bad Blood and Welcome to New
Speaker 3: York are my least favorite songs on the album.
Speaker 1: Welcome to New York.
Speaker 2: I listened to it every time I have a plane touchdown.
Speaker 1: Right when the wheels the target.
Speaker 2: Literally it's so good, or or I listened to it
Speaker 2: like in the uber coming out of Jmkaylor or LaGuardia.
Speaker 1: I listened to Wendy Williams. She's a native New Yorker.
Speaker 2: Okay, so now we are at smile with something I
Speaker 2: know nothing, which is not a good album period. And
Speaker 2: but I do think the interesting thing is that when
Speaker 2: the album came out and Katie did a bunch of interviews,
Speaker 2: she was on the defense already in promoting it because
Speaker 2: she had this whole spiel. I remember specifically, there's a
Speaker 2: quote I think she gave it to the La Times
Speaker 2: where they were like, yeah, you don't really get number
Speaker 2: ones the way you used to, and she's like, honey, like,
Speaker 2: look at my numbers, Like I've rung every bell and
Speaker 2: that is not sustainable, and like I don't need to
Speaker 2: hit those milestones anymore good because I've already done it.
Speaker 2: And I think that is a good attitude for her
Speaker 2: to have, and.
Speaker 1: Especially nowadays where the charts don't mean anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, Smile was a huge flop. I
Speaker 2: do think there's some good songs on it. I really
Speaker 2: like Tucked, Cry About It Later is really good.
Speaker 1: And Smiled, don't you like the time? No Smile is horrible.
Speaker 2: Smile is one of the worst songs ever made.
Speaker 1: But I like that.
Speaker 2: In the years since Smile came out, I think it
Speaker 2: came out in twenty twenty, and with sort of the
Speaker 2: backing of her American Idol job behind her, she's a
Speaker 2: little bit more like that defensiveness has calmed down, I think,
Speaker 2: and she yeah, and she has like made peace with
Speaker 2: the fact that she will never be at the height
Speaker 2: that she once was and that and like that's okay,
Speaker 2: because that's not sustainable for anyone unless you're Tailor. And
Speaker 2: even Taylor like will have a come down at some
Speaker 2: point from the current high she's on. And Katie like,
Speaker 2: she has so much money. She makes like twenty five
Speaker 2: million dollars a season for judging American Idol. She has
Speaker 2: all these world records, she has this incredible discography, She's
Speaker 2: done the Super Bowl, and she gets to fuck Orlando Bloom.
Speaker 1: She gets to fuck Orlando Bloom.
Speaker 2: He is so hot, naked on the beach, he has
Speaker 2: aged like fine wine, and I the fact that she
Speaker 2: gets to suck his dick is like, that is what
Speaker 2: what number one hit could give you the same feeling
Speaker 2: as sucking off Orlando Bloom?
Speaker 1: When I I.
Speaker 3: Mean sucking off, yes, But when I saw those vacation
Speaker 3: photos of them just like being happy, like in a private,
Speaker 3: like remote like beach island inlet or whatever, I was like,
Speaker 3: all I can think about is sticking my nose and
Speaker 3: mouth into Orlando's hairy little.
Speaker 1: Hole and smelling his Oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3: I want to eat his ass ya because he looks
Speaker 3: so delicious and he probably like right then and there
Speaker 3: smelled like salts.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, before we get to bar Okay, what's your
Speaker 2: what's your favorite Katie.
Speaker 1: Perry song that is a or like top three?
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie I kissed a Girl is in
Speaker 3: my top three or top five.
Speaker 1: I think Teenage Dream remains.
Speaker 3: To be one of the most beautiful pop songs about
Speaker 3: love ever. And I say that full knowing how like
Speaker 3: empty the lyrics are. But it really captured the imagination
Speaker 3: of teens at the time, and I was a teen
Speaker 3: at the time, and I really appreciated the world that
Speaker 3: she built, not just with that album, but with that
Speaker 3: song because it was just perfect to me. I feel like,
Speaker 3: if I'm returning to songs like if I'm gonna If,
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, enjoying my day and thinking about, like, huh,
Speaker 3: I'm like in the mood for some Katie, which honestly
Speaker 3: doesn't happen very often. I'm definitely listening to Never Really Over.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely listening to Hot and Cold. I Kissed the
Speaker 3: Girls definitely Top three, top five. I also really like
Speaker 3: Oh I Love White Awake. I also really love her
Speaker 3: rendition of White Christmas on that Christmas covers album that
Speaker 3: was released exclusively with Starbucks. It's so good, and I
Speaker 3: love if you come around Christmas time and you want
Speaker 3: to like listen to something sad and slow, listen to
Speaker 3: Katie Perry's White Christmas because her vocals are completely unvarnished.
Speaker 3: There's no auto tune at all, and so it's this
Speaker 3: has this raw nasal, almost.
Speaker 1: Like flat kind of quality. That's so I think stunning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's when her, it's when her like kind of
Speaker 3: bad vocals really work for me. But live vocal, a
Speaker 3: live vocal singer, she is not. She's a performer down.
Speaker 3: She will give you a good show, period, but she
Speaker 3: her talent is not vocals in my opinion, even though
Speaker 3: she is talented, she is very talented. I think her
Speaker 3: talent is being a pop star on being an entertainer,
Speaker 3: and that's why we need to see.
Speaker 1: Is the Vagat residency still on? Is it over? I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, but I would love to see it.
Speaker 2: Even though you know, my favorites are not necessarily not
Speaker 2: all of them are getting performed.
Speaker 1: Oh you know this that list kind of okay?
Speaker 2: I would say my favorite Katie songs like top five
Speaker 2: are never really over thinking of you the what is
Speaker 2: it waiting? Walking on Air? Maybe like Circle the Drain.
Speaker 1: Ooh, I don't know that one. It's on Teenage Dream okay.
Speaker 2: And Legendary Lovers, No, not Legendary Lovers. One of the
Speaker 2: boys actually, the title track from One of the Boys
Speaker 2: is such a good song and is very trans coded.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Honestly, the more I think about it, especially since
Speaker 3: I've been listening to Ikist to Girl over and over again,
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that's my favorite Katie song.
Speaker 1: Wow, I really are we have common full circles, I
Speaker 1: really do.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about the riff and what it contributed and
Speaker 3: how it does stand alone in pop music where and
Speaker 3: it's also something that doesn't feel dated.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's very stupid to say.
Speaker 3: It feels extremely dated because of its display of heterosexuality,
Speaker 3: but aside from that, like the musical quality of it
Speaker 3: feels so like it had a point of view, and
Speaker 3: Teenage Dream obviously had a point of view. But at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, she's making pop product and
Speaker 3: I like and I love that. I think I kissed
Speaker 3: a girl just like had a little edge, it had
Speaker 3: something else.
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's no other way we can end
Speaker 2: this episode than by chanting something in unison.
Speaker 1: Oh and I think you know what it.
Speaker 2: Is, and it is a certain Dead Nuns request for
Speaker 2: Katie Perry. So I want you to hold my hands. Yes,
Speaker 2: And on three, we're gonna say it? One two three,
Speaker 2: Katy Perry, please stop?
Speaker 1: Why did you say it? I didn't know that was
Speaker 1: what I was supposed to say. Here, let's do it again, okay,
Speaker 1: one two three, Katie Perry, please stop?
Speaker 3: I really don't want her to stop, though, Like, what
Speaker 3: do you think she should do next? Like, I honestly,
Speaker 3: because you said she's cracked every milestone, She's done so
Speaker 3: many things, Like what on earth does she do next?
Speaker 2: I think she should pivot to acting. I actually think
Speaker 2: that would be really smart.
Speaker 1: For her, it would.
Speaker 3: I mean, I want another album. I'm obviously, and we
Speaker 3: will get more albums. Yeah, I want Bad Blood featuring
Speaker 3: Katy Perry, and I think that's what we need.
Speaker 1: A Katy Perry movie direct by Bradley Cooper.
Speaker 2: Got Star Is Born Again, Slide into Our dandst Like
Speaker 2: a Virgin four twenty sixty nine, and let us know
Speaker 2: what's your favorite Katie Perry song? Do you think she
Speaker 2: should always have long black hair?
Speaker 1: Did she kill that nine? Did she kill that Nune?
Speaker 1: The answer is yes.
Speaker 2: If this episode was not enough to satisfy your craving
Speaker 2: for us, you can become a patron at Patreon dot com.
Speaker 2: Slash like a Virgin for weekly bonus episodes. Currently we're
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Speaker 2: a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can also follow
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Speaker 2: support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etour until next week.
Speaker 1: I guess it's never really over.
Speaker 2: Just because it doesn't literally ever an infant the good
Speaker 2: of it, Maybe you'll become a Nutter again.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3: Here's a clip from this week's Patreon episode, which is
Speaker 3: a little Girl's Girling moment where Rose talks about her
Speaker 3: experience seeing Renaissance and I talk about Fire Island's doll
Speaker 3: invasion that I organized last weekend. You can subscribe to
Speaker 3: hear the full episode at Patreon dot com slash Like
Speaker 3: a Virgin.
Speaker 2: We have both had some big moments within the past
Speaker 2: week and wanted to talk about them.
Speaker 3: Yes, one of them being Beyonce and another one being
Speaker 3: Doll Invasion, of which are on equal playing field of
Speaker 3: life altering experience.
Speaker 2: And also took place on the same day on the
Speaker 2: same day. Hence why I was not at the Doll.
Speaker 2: I was very sad to miss it, so I want
Speaker 2: to hear all about it. Tell me everything.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I kind of wanted to start with Renaissance,
Speaker 3: but okay, I'm still, you know, coming down from it,
Speaker 3: which is why my voice still sounds like this. I
Speaker 3: feel like, bottom line, if you don't already know I
Speaker 3: or organize this amazing coalition of people to put on
Speaker 3: adult Invasion of Fire Island when hundreds of trans people
Speaker 3: descended on the island on a single day to or
Speaker 3: for us exactly us sending to party in a pool
Speaker 3: safely at Fruit Falls and on Fire Island, which is
Speaker 3: historically not a place that is very accommodating to trans people.
Speaker 3: And it was nothing short of one of the top
Speaker 3: three top five best days of my life.
Speaker 1: I feel so.
Speaker 3: Accomplished in what everybody on the team was able to do.
Speaker 3: Everyone immediately activated around there the idea and pulled their
Speaker 3: way and made their shit happen, and that resulted in
Speaker 3: free tattoos, free cash, free Willie Norris shirts, like free drinks,
Speaker 3: like free travel, stipends for people that needed them, like
Speaker 3: Gina Davis was there for a second and I have
Speaker 3: no idea, but she wouldn't her publicist wouldn't let us
Speaker 3: take photos of her, which was like so wild. But
Speaker 3: I think she was friends with Sada Ramirez who was
Speaker 3: also there and held up a sign that said welcome
Speaker 3: transsexuals for three different pools of fairy fairy goers.
Speaker 1: Which was honestly a serve themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually really cha came through and then Hari was
Speaker 3: obviously their The doll On strike about a movie about
Speaker 3: it all, the biggest movie in America.
Speaker 1: It felt like a movie. It felt like the end
Speaker 1: of a movie.
Speaker 3: It felt like such a beautiful celebration of what we
Speaker 3: could do with collective organizing power and if we fundraised
Speaker 3: justin just what we needed and the rest went to,
Speaker 3: you know, a mutual aid initiative for the girls like
Speaker 3: that was amazing and beyond that, like the way I'm
Speaker 3: talking about it makes it sound very like triumphant and
Speaker 3: important and historic and newsworthy, which it was we were
Speaker 3: on Vogue.
Speaker 1: Thank you. But at the end of the.
Speaker 3: Day, you know, you and I are privy to the
Speaker 3: people that live on Fire Island and the kinds of
Speaker 3: people that inhabit. To habit it, I had to work
Speaker 3: with a lot of those people. I had to work
Speaker 3: with some of the good apples, so to speak, in
Speaker 3: order to make this party happen. And I found not
Speaker 3: with the people that I worked with, but with other
Speaker 3: people that there was this thing floating around about how
Speaker 3: important this was going to be and it's going to
Speaker 3: be such an inclusive event and like it's going to
Speaker 3: be so important, you're going to change lives, blah blah blah,
Speaker 3: and like sure, like give me credit.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but.
Speaker 3: Also like trans people deserve to do things that aren't important,
Speaker 3: like we can also just like make out and do
Speaker 3: drugs at a cool party, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 3: and I felt like I was constantly having to be
Speaker 3: like actually, like it's not inclusive, Like we're not being
Speaker 3: included on anything, like we don't want any part of it,
Speaker 3: Like we are doing it, and you are the ones
Speaker 3: that are included, which is why you have to pay
Speaker 3: twenty dollars at the door and trans people don't.
Speaker 1: That's such a good way to reframe it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: try to. That's amazing. And then you got to hang
Speaker 1: out in the house for a couple days after. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you.
Speaker 2: Got to like come down a little bit after the
Speaker 2: day and like enjoy yourself.
Speaker 3: And by come down, I mean chain smokes cigarettes as
Speaker 3: I continue to answer emails for days. Yes, but I
Speaker 3: but I was loving the chain smoking and I'm paying
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 1: As you can hear. I can hear it.
Speaker 3: You did not lose your voice despite having been at
Speaker 3: what is probably the event of the year in New
Speaker 3: York City.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I wasn't able to be a doll invasion
Speaker 2: because I was at Beyonce. I went to the first
Speaker 2: night of her two night run in Rutherford, New.
Speaker 1: She is the.
Speaker 2: Greatest performer of our generation and the greatest performer alive currently.
Speaker 1: No one can do what she can do one hundred
Speaker 1: and true fight me. I Yeah.
Speaker 3: I felt also like it was the best show I've
Speaker 3: ever seen, one of the greatest nights of my life.
Speaker 3: The finale I was not really prepared for. I wasn't
Speaker 3: ready for it to be over. And oh, did you
Speaker 3: think there was going to be an encore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was.
Speaker 3: I was like on a lot of ketamine at this point,
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think maybe in my brain did think
Speaker 3: there was going to be an encore at the very least,
Speaker 3: that there would just be more. But when she ascended
Speaker 3: over the crowd in this like metallic like confetti thing
Speaker 3: that she was ringing the London tour and all these
Speaker 3: four high beams are flashing on her and everybody's holding
Speaker 3: up their phones to try and take a picture. There
Speaker 3: was so much light on her that you couldn't see her.
Speaker 3: She just looked like a flashing orb of light. She
Speaker 3: looked like literally God, and people were trying to take
Speaker 3: a photo of God and couldn't.
Speaker 1: I tried taking a photo. All you see is this
Speaker 1: huge bright ball of light. She looked like the sun
Speaker 1: and she is she is, She's the Sun and the moon.
Speaker 3: And the best part is like after that whole moment
Speaker 3: where everyone's taking photos and she's all these flashes, and
Speaker 3: she finally descends and then you finally see her, like
Speaker 3: the like light goes away, and then you see her
Speaker 3: a beautiful outfit and she's like descending back into the
Speaker 3: stage and she goes I.
Speaker 1: Think I need a little more love, and everyone's like
Speaker 1: she was.
Speaker 2: So funny and like cute on the mic. I loved
Speaker 2: all her banter. It didn't feel canned in the way
Speaker 2: that a lot of pop star tour banter is. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure, like you know, some of it is sure prepared,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure she does a lot of the same
Speaker 2: things from show to show, but she just makes it work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she does every time. She's perfect. Wow wow.
Speaker 2: And like I in recent years have become a little
Speaker 2: exhausted of the deification of Beyonce, like it feels so
Speaker 2: sort of like eye rolling and obvious, like yes, we know,
Speaker 2: like Beyonce's amazing, But then seeing her performed live, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, like that's all exists because it's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I feel like when Beyonce was having her first kid, honestly,
Speaker 3: that deification was reaching its peak and she was just
Speaker 3: like yeah, no, you're right, I am a god and
Speaker 3: that's the brand. And then that was like something where
Speaker 3: it's just like, well, you don't need to say it,
Speaker 3: like we're saying it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it.
Speaker 3: Really it's like it's full circle, like she is exactly
Speaker 3: where she needs to be. I wish pop stars could
Speaker 3: do what she does, but no one can.
Speaker 1: And I'm hungry, and I'm hungry. Oh my god. The Actually,
Speaker 1: the hot dogs that met life were so good.
Speaker 3: Really, I wanted another one, but but you didn't, cause
Speaker 3: it's like I didn't want to go back to get
Speaker 3: a second one. I got the chicken tenders, which were
Speaker 3: fucking good, to be honest,