1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: I say the first five guys who showed up for 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: my first yoga class at San Quentin were the five 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: bravest guys in the prison because they had to walk 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: across the yard, and you know they everybody on the 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: yard saw the yoga man walk in with it, which 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: is what they used to call me when I said, hey, 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: yoga man, what's that under your arm? And maybe a 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: few cat calls and whistles too. 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: City Memphis. And that last part, somehow, well, it led 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: to an oscar for a film about one of my teams. 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 2: It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems are 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: people in nice suits talking big words that nobody understands 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: normal folks. Guys, that's us, just you and me deciding hey, 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: maybe I can help. That's what James Fox, the voice 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: you just heard, has done. James is the founder of 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 2: Prison Yoga Project, which brings trauma informed yoga to prisoners 22 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: to help them heal and most importantly, actually rehabilitate. And 23 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 2: last year fifty seven thousand prisoners attended their programming, which 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: is led by their own army of normal folks who 25 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: are facilitators. I cannot wait for you to meet James 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: right after these brief messages from our generous fonsors. James Fox, 27 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to Memphis. 28 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: Oh, thanks very much, Bill. 29 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: I mean all the way from Billinas, California. Where in 30 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: the world is Billinas? 31 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: Billina says, about an hour north of San Francisco. You 32 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: go over the Golden Gate Bridge and you follow Highway 33 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: one along the coast, and first you get to Stinson Beach, 34 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: which is a beautiful beach, probably the closest beach to 35 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: San Francisco outside of San Francisco, that is. And then 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: just a little farther north is the ton of Bellina 37 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: is sixteen hundred people. 38 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: So everybody, James Fox, get ready for this is the 39 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: founder of the Prison Yoga Project. And I gotta admit, 40 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: when I first just saw your name and your title, 41 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: I thought about Colin Alex and saying, all right, prison Yoga. 42 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: I mean, let's what in the world are we getting 43 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 2: ourselves into. And then as I found out more about you, 44 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: gained a lot of excitement to meet you and I 45 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: cannot wait to dive into prison yoga. But first, I 46 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: think it is youer maane to your story to briefly 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: just tell us about even though you're Bay Area guy 48 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: now and doing prison yoga in California, you're a Midwest 49 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: guy of by roots I am. And I think how 50 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: you grew up in Chicago, especially Inner City of Chicago 51 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: is Germane or sheds a little light on maybe who 52 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: you are and why you do the work you do now. 53 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: So why don't you just give us a little background 54 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: to you growing up in Chicago so that we have 55 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: that as a set point for the rest of your story. 56 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I grew up privileged, and I grew up 57 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: in a suburb of Chicago, but right on the edge 58 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: of the Chicago city limits. I played a lot of 59 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: sports growing up, mostly baseball and basketball, and so played 60 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: a lot of teams in the inner city. And also 61 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that I came to know as 62 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: soon as I started doing this work with incarcerated people 63 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: was that common denominators are violence and addiction. When I 64 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: thought about that, I thought, hmm, okay, well I've brushed 65 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: up against both of those. And when you grow up 66 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: in an urban environment and you're exposed to an urban environment, 67 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: you come in contact with that sort of thing all 68 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: the time. And I became trained as a violence prevention 69 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: facilitator also, and I ran groups at San Quentin basically 70 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: violence prevention groups. And part of the training of that, 71 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: becoming a facilitator for that was understanding what's called the 72 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: male role belief system and how you grow up and 73 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: how you're influenced by the male role belief system, meaning 74 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: how you think like a man, or at least the 75 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: influences in your life, how you think like a man, 76 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: and how you act like a man. And I think, 77 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: particularly now in these days, people talk a lot about 78 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: toxic masculinity, and I think toxic masculinity comes from that 79 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: malero belief system, such as, if you need to get 80 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: your needs met, if you have to revert to violence, 81 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: you revert to violence. There's assertiveness, which is saying what 82 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: it is that you need, and then going past assertiveness 83 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: is aggressiveness. And I think that a lot of people 84 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: in the culture can basically relate to that is that 85 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: particularly men grow up with Hey, if you have to 86 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: be aggressive, you've got to be aggressive if you certainly, 87 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: if you're ever called out, be it playing sports or 88 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: any other way, you're not going to back down. So 89 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: I would say having grown up being influenced by some 90 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: of those things paid a price with me. 91 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: And I found that I. 92 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: Had poor impulse control, like many people have poor est 93 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: impulse control. 94 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 3: I was a hothead. 95 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: I was easily triggered, and that brought a certain amount 96 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: of suffering to myself and to other people. And so 97 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: having been an athlete and when somebody first started to 98 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: talk to me, I was a runner, a middle distance runner. 99 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: When I was living in San Francisco, I used to 100 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: run through Golden Gate Park down to the beach and back. 101 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: It was about eight or nine miles, and I developed 102 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: a problem. I developed some kind of a pinch nerve 103 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: in my back. And like most runners, you know, you 104 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: take a week off and you go yeah, but I 105 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: got to get back to running and I'd run and 106 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: I would come back. So I had friends saying, you 107 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: ought to try yoga yoga. You gotta be kidding, yoga yoga, 108 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, I. 109 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: Word itself is goofy. When you've heard yoga, I'm sure 110 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 2: everybody does. You know representations, but I think a yogi bear. 111 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: I'm like yogi yoga. I'm out it. Yeah, you're this 112 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: dude for the Midwest. If I out there says you 113 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: need to try yoga, you gotta be like yoga's weird. 114 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: Well, I felt, you know, why would I want to 115 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: do yoga. I'm an athlete, so on and so forth. 116 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: So I like to say I had to suffer enough 117 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: to finally go all right, all right, I'll go to 118 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: a yoga class. And I went to a yoga class, 119 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: and I went, ohh this is very different than. 120 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: What I thought. 121 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: And I had already been exposed to meditation before I 122 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: started practicing yoga, and I pretty quickly got oh, this 123 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: is meditation in motion. So this is combining the athletic 124 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: part of myself with the introspective part of myself. And 125 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: the other thing that happened to me is I can 126 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: continued to go to classes. My injury got better and 127 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: I was actually able to overcomment. 128 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: But I found that. 129 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: It was really giving me deeper insight into myself. And 130 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: then I really dedicated myself and I started taking retreats. 131 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 3: I started going on retreats. 132 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: Where you practiced yoga, you know, first thing in the morning, 133 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: six o'clock in the morning, before you had breakfast, and 134 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: basically the weekend was held in silence until the final 135 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: night on Sunday night. And it really gave me an 136 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to drop deeply into myself and have a better 137 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: understanding of myself in some of these issues that I 138 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: was dealing with, interpersonal issues. And so after practicing for 139 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: about thirteen years, I felt, so I can do the 140 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: physical part of the practice, the greatest benefit I'm getting 141 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: from this practice is the emotional benefit. And I had 142 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: this feeling I think I could work with young men, 143 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: young men who are athletic, but also young men who 144 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: are coming from urban environments and dealing with different kinds 145 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: of issues and introducing them to certain practices, to certain 146 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: skills that could really help them. 147 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 2: So that's a great setup. But I think we need 148 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: to unpack a few things for our listeners before we 149 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: go any further. One is when those who don't know 150 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: much about yoga, you're truly included. Here's yoga. I think 151 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 2: the vast majority of us think about a far Eastern practice. 152 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: If we've read anything, many assume that it's part of 153 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: a far Eastern religion, a Hindu or something like that. 154 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: The second thing is when people think about yoga if 155 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: you haven't seen it in a park or at a 156 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: studio or on some TV show or movie with a 157 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: bunch of ladies and workout gear in a park and 158 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: a bunch of mats stretching. If you don't know much 159 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: about it, you think of yoga as a thirty to 160 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: one hour kind of stretching exercise. It's almost what's vogue now? 161 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 2: What was once the eighties? What were those people that 162 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: were those scrunchy things and they job what was that 163 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: stuff called jazzer side or what was that stuff called? Yeah, 164 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: jazzer jazzer size. And then there was another one that 165 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: my mom, did I remember, abics aerobics. Aerobics. Yeah, it's 166 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: kind of like yoga is now the new aerobics for 167 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 2: these ladies and parks. And what I've learned is both 168 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: of those two things are really and accurate misconceptions. So 169 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: before we go any further, I would like you to 170 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: take the time to explain to our listeners that while 171 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: it is far Eastern I think in its basis, it 172 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: really doesn't have any attachment to one particular region or another. 173 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: And it is not jazz or size because it actually 174 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: has three components and only one is the physical one. 175 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: And I think before we go any further, it would 176 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: be good for our listeners to understand what in the 177 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: world yoga really is, as we understand how it had 178 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: a connection with you and then how you saw to 179 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: employ it in a very different way. And apparently men 180 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 2: from Chicago can do it too. What's up? Speaking of stereotypes. 181 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: Apparently a man from Chicago can do it too. Yeah, 182 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: and I'm a rest dude from Chicago. You know, you're 183 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 2: supposed to be drinking beer and eating brats, not doing yoga. 184 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: But I think it's important to set the stage. 185 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well I'll begin with it did originate? Yoga 186 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: originated in India. But what they have discovered is that, 187 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: for instance, in Egypt, you know, many many, many centuries ago, 188 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: they were doing a very similar kind of a practice. 189 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: They didn't call it yoga, they called it what they 190 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: called it. They did something similar in China. Also, there 191 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: are a lot of similarities between like yoga and tai 192 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: chi and chigung and things like that. However, yoga is 193 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: a Sanskrit word, and yoga means union. 194 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 3: It means union, it means. 195 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I didn't know that either. 196 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: And when you really dive into the origins of yoga 197 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: and the purpose of yoga, what they're talking about in 198 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: terms of union is it's the union of the mental, emotional, 199 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: and physical aspects of ourselves, of ourselves. 200 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: Of ourselves. 201 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: So it's a practice to bring into balance those three 202 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: aspects of ourselves. Whichever human being has a mental, emotional 203 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: and a physical aspect of themselves, most people are out 204 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: of balance mentally, basically living their life from their neck 205 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: to the top of their head, and basically whatever their 206 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: mind shatter is telling them is what they're following, particularly 207 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: as it relates to men, not a real clear emotional 208 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: connection and a physical connection with themselves. So the whole 209 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: intention of yoga was to bring about that balance or 210 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: that union. 211 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 2: That's very secular. There's no faith based component specific to. 212 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: That, right, And really what's happened, particularly in the twentieth century, 213 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: is that yoga has developed many different paths from the 214 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: origins to now a secular path of yoga therapy. There 215 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: are distinct practices of yoga that are being used with 216 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: military veterans. There's something called yoga nidra. Nidra is another 217 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: Sanskrit word that means sleep, where they've had a lot 218 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: of success in working with combat veterans to deal with 219 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: PTSD by working with them with yoga nidra. And there's 220 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: other therapeutic approaches to yoga, and particularly I would say 221 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: this is probably more in the last fifteen or twenty 222 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: years of the understanding of the value of yoga to 223 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: address symptoms of unresolved trauma. And probably the greatest contributor 224 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: to that is doctor Besil Vanderkock, a psychiatrist who wrote 225 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: The Body Keeps the Score. 226 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 227 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: I hope you'll follow us on your favorite social media channels. 228 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: We share more powerful content, including reels from our video 229 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: studio and testimonials from Army members. We're at Army of 230 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: normal folks on every channel. Give us a follow, we'll 231 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: be right back. 232 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: I think what happens when you start to practice yoga 233 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: is it's almost like wait a minute, time out here, 234 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: time out. That first of all, you're slowing everything down, 235 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: and it's not just working out. 236 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 3: You know, it's like working out is great. 237 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: You know you're working out, You're you know, you're basically 238 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: working your muscles and bones. And from a physical standpoint, 239 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: one of the great values of yoga is you're not 240 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: just working muscles and bones, but you're working joints and 241 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: connective tissues and internal way organs. 242 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: From a physical standpoint. 243 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: From an emotional standpoint, you're learning or you're being able 244 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: to develop impulse control. You're strengthening impulse control, you're being 245 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: able to take those moments where you pause before you react, 246 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: which is one of the big things. 247 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: Does that have to do with the breathing has. 248 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 3: A lot to do with the breathing. 249 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: There's a lot to do with the breathing, but the 250 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: breathing connected with the prefrontal cortex. 251 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: Because I guarantee my North Mississippi born Southern grandmother never 252 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: knew a Dagham thing about yoga and probably never knew 253 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: the word, but I can always remember her. She always said, 254 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: if you get really angry before you act, take a 255 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: deep breath. 256 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I said, naturally yogi. 257 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but that's I mean, that's interesting. Yeah, that 258 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: that's the idea behind the breathing part of yoga, is 259 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: it not? 260 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: And yes, and interestingly enough, this is something that it's 261 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: not only take a deep breath, but if you really 262 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: want to value, take a long exhale, because your ex 263 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: sale is your body's built in release valve, not the inhale. 264 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: Right. 265 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: When you inhale, you're drawing energy in. When you exale, 266 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: you're letting go and you're actually letting go of toxins 267 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: in your body too when you exhale. 268 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: All right, and then the third part of yoga. 269 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 3: Is these the meditative part of yoga. 270 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: The meditative You'll see a lot of people will hear 271 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: that and think, oh, that's where it gets weird. Explain 272 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: the meditative. 273 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you asked me that, because I don't 274 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: use that word when I teach incarcerated people. I don't 275 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: use that term in prison. I call it centering practice. 276 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: Why don't you use meditative. 277 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: Because some people are for what you said. It was 278 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: like some people say, oh, now you're going to take 279 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: me into some kind of original religion or yeah, or 280 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I tried that once and I can't. 281 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: Do that, So you call it centering centering. 282 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: And the way that I approach that is how do 283 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: you deal with all the emotional storms that come into 284 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: your life? Emotional storm that we can't avoid, right, Emotions come, 285 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: Emotions come. 286 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: And the world is a tough place and you're going 287 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: to be hit with things. 288 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: So how do you stay centered? How do you stay 289 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: grounded when you're hit with these emotional storms? What is 290 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: it that you do? Working out is great because you're 291 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: discharging a lot of that stuff, but being able to 292 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: quiet your mind, being able to learn skills to quiet 293 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: your mind, so then your mind here we go back 294 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: to mental, emotional, and physical. Your mind and your body 295 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: are connected in a place where you can actually stop 296 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: and be still for a moment, and what comes as 297 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: a result of that is some emotional benefit and the more. 298 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 3: And it doesn't take a lot. 299 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: It's not like you don't you don't have to sit 300 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: down for forty minutes or a half an hour and meditate. 301 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: You can learn these different skills where you can do 302 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: something in three minutes that's going to serve you. In 303 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: terms of this what's now called self regulation. How do 304 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: you self regulate? 305 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: Right? 306 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 3: Self control? 307 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: Self regulate, and every human being has an issue with 308 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: self regulation and self control. Again, that kind of went 309 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: back to my time, you know, growing up in Chicago, 310 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: where I realized, hey, I got a self control problem. 311 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: I got a self control issue. If I'm in my 312 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: early twenties and I'm still getting into fights, because that's 313 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: what you did with growing up in Chicago, I got 314 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: a self control issue. So I found that that was 315 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: something that I could carry over in working with young 316 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: men initially and then it transitioned into adult men. 317 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: With all this understanding and with this practice that you've 318 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 2: been doing now thirteen years, starting for yourself, and as 319 00:19:55,160 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 2: you're evolving, you think kids that are and stressful tough 320 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: situations would benefit from this. And then you're like, well, 321 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: if the data says that eighty percent or so of 322 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: the incarcerated people did it because of some substance abuse 323 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: or trauma issue or combination, what could we actually do 324 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: for people in the prison population. So I just kind 325 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 2: of teed that up for you take it from that 326 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 2: point forward. Now that we have a real basis behind 327 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 2: why you think the way you think, and then what 328 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: has evolved in what you do now. 329 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: Well, in the beginning, I was working on intuition, you know, 330 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: my intuition was telling me, I think, I think this 331 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: might be able to providing some tools from yoga that 332 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: people could incorporate into their lives. And I found out 333 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: pretty quickly in working with the boys. So I first 334 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: start out in a residential treatment facility for boys who 335 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: being court ordered to this program ages thirteen to eighteen. 336 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: And yes they were receiving therapy and many of them 337 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: were medicated, but there wasn't anything that involving their bodies. 338 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: And I pretty quickly realized, oh, my intuition is I'm 339 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: not going to sit down and talk to them about 340 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: their issues. 341 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 3: I'm going to move with them. 342 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to work. 343 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: And this was all intuitive. This was before I really 344 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,239 Speaker 1: understood trauma. And then when I started out working with 345 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: men at San Quentin, I'm working with men who are 346 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: a life sentenced with the possibility of parole. 347 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: Probably manslaughter, yeah, murders people for people don't know, tell 348 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: them a little bit about San Quentin. 349 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: San Quentin had California's condemned row until last year when 350 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: it was disbanded, and it houses right now it houses 351 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: about thirty eight hundred men. When I first started going 352 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: in there, it was fifty five hundred they were to 353 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: harm and thirty percent capacity and the general population at 354 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: San Quentin were mostly life sentenced with the possibility of pearl, 355 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: so violent offenders, many of whom came from backgrounds where 356 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: whatever they knew about yoga was something they saw in 357 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: a magazine or television ad or something like that. 358 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 2: I probably thought it was stupid. 359 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: Yes, so I'm often asked, well, who showed up for 360 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: your first yoga class? 361 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: I was actually going to ask what dude? Yeah, what 362 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 2: bad dude showed up for his first yoga class? But 363 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 2: first I want to just set the stage. San Quentin 364 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 2: is the toughest of the tough, right, I mean. 365 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: Not so much anymore, but it does have a reputation 366 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: like that because they're like different security levels within the prison. 367 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: But it's not so much anymore. 368 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: It's actually a very progressive rehabilitated rehabilitation. 369 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: The people that are going there are still life erst 370 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: When I say the people in it are, yeah, folks 371 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: who've committed some serious class Yeah. 372 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. 373 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: And the guys that I've worked with over the twenty 374 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: three years, almost most of the men that I've really 375 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: worked seriously with because they've got very committed to the 376 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: practice lifers. 377 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: Okay, so you show them san Quentin. 378 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: So I go there and I go, I figure, okay, 379 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: these guys, I'm working with these guys. Well, first of all, 380 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: I say, the first five guys who showed up for 381 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: my first yoga class at San Quentin were the five 382 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: bravest guys in the prison because they had to walk 383 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: across the yard, and you know, they everybody on the 384 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: yard saw the yoga man walk in with it, which 385 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: is what they used to call me when I said, hey, 386 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: yoga man, what's that under your arm? And maybe a 387 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: few cat calls and whistles too, But everything in prison 388 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: spreads by word of mouth. And when these five guys 389 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: left and went back to their homes and their cell 390 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: blocks and everything like that, started saying, hey, man, I 391 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: had the best night's sleep I've had in memory from 392 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: that yoga class, or this chronic pain that I've had 393 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: in my you know, my right hip that I haven't 394 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: been able to get rid of. It's actually less after 395 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: that class. So the words started to spread, not right away, 396 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: but after a few weeks, five turned into seven, and 397 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: then after a few more weeks, seven turned into ten. 398 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: That was when I taught one class today. We teach 399 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: five separate classes a week at San Quentin, and we 400 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: have waiting lists of up to one hundred guys trying 401 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: to get into the class. So what started out and 402 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: I basically was feeling, Okay, Well, these guys they want 403 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: to they want to work out, so I'm going to 404 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: give them a workout and they're gonna discover how really 405 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: strong they are. 406 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 2: And I imagine it's like anything when I show up 407 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: to coach football to a new team that I've never coached. 408 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: I'm not yucking it up and slapping backs because I 409 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 2: don't have the relationship. It develops over time, and it 410 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: develops with a consistent approach where the people start to 411 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: size you up and then remove their barriers and then 412 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: you can really start having some meaningful relationships. And so 413 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: I got to imagine at first they're sizing you up 414 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 2: and just speaking of you as the yoga workout guy, 415 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 2: which is not really what you're there for. But you 416 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 2: had to spend the consistent time engaged to start to 417 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 2: reach the two most beneficial parts of yoga, in my opinion, 418 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: which are the two that fall behind the physcal One yes, 419 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 2: I mean is that right. 420 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 3: It's true. 421 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: I always saved at least a few minutes at the 422 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: end of the class to start to introduce to drop into. 423 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 2: That we will be right back. 424 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: One of the most impactful moments was after I'd been 425 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: running this lifer's class for a couple of months, several 426 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: weeks one of the guys who was the super athlete 427 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: came in and before class, he came out to me 428 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: and said, Hey, James, you're gonna kick our tonight. 429 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: You're gonna work us today, And I went, wait a minute, 430 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: But he meant that in a positive way. 431 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: He meant it in a positive way. But it also 432 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: made me reflect on am I buying into the typical 433 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: male thing of I'm gonna challenge you and see who 434 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: can really hang in here. 435 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: And show these lifers how tough I am? 436 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, and it was part of it, like, you know, 437 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: you guys are you know, you guys are muscular and 438 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: everything like that, but are you really strong? I want 439 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: to take you through a yoga practice where you're really 440 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: gonna find out how strong you really are. And then 441 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: I realized, you know what, I don't want to do that. 442 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: I want to start balancing this out. 443 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: With honestly, that fringes on the very toxic masculinity that 444 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 2: you're trying to break down. 445 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely interesting. 446 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 2: I didn't understand that one I read your prov but 447 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: hearing you say, I now understand what you're saying. 448 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something in almost all yoga practices hata yoga 449 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: hatta meaning physical yoga practices where you do sun salutations, 450 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: which is kind of the calisthenics part of a yoga practice. 451 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: Right in the middle. 452 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: There's one part where you're what they call mountain posts 453 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: where you start and then after you do one sun salutation, 454 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: you end up in mountain posts, and then you go again. 455 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: I would stop and say, wait a minute, Wait a minute, 456 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 1: let's not rush through this. Let's take a moment. I 457 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: invite you, guys, and things are invitational. You learn invitational 458 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: rather than barking out orders, right, coach. 459 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially to those guys. 460 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, maybe you want to put a hand on 461 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: your belly, and maybe you want maybe you want to 462 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: put one hand over your sternum and just for a moment, 463 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: take a few breaths and feel what's going on in 464 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: your body. Now I'm starting to okay, there's this physical 465 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: aspect there's this, you know, but then there's this other 466 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: aspect of learning how to back off. And again, intuitively, 467 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: what I was touching on was impulse control learning how 468 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: to back off? 469 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 3: All right? 470 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: I know you guys can do the sun salutations, and 471 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: you know we've been doing them. 472 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: But can you back off? 473 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: Well, and here's the bigger question. Everybody in this prison 474 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: knows you can fight, here's the real question. Can you 475 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: walk away? 476 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 477 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: Yep. 478 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 3: So that was a turning point. And then and and 479 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 3: some of that came out in. 480 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: My book that I wrote, But it was when I 481 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: was interduce to understanding trauma that I realized, once again 482 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: I was on the right track. Intuitively, I was on 483 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: the right track as it applies to trauma healing and 484 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: how how do you overcome the unresolved symptoms of trauma 485 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: that you're left with as a result of childhood trauma 486 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: which is called developmental trauma, and then all the trauma 487 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: on top of that, which is called complex trauma. And 488 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: now you're in an environment which is trauma on simmer 489 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: when there's a lack of safety, predictability and control. When 490 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: there's a lack of safety predictability and control, for anybody 491 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: who has unresolved symptoms of trauma, the situation is ripe 492 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: to restimulate those symptoms. 493 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: We interviewed somebody from Chicago who started a inner city routine, 494 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: and he had kids from his high school that had 495 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: never seen Lake Michigan and grew up on the South 496 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: Side because they were afraid to cross the blocks. Sure, 497 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: one of the things he said that I will never forget. 498 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: This may be one of the more impactful metaphors that 499 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't think I'll ever forget, is that in their 500 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 2: project apartment they had a fan because their conditioner didn't 501 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: work real well, just a you know room fanshplug in 502 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 2: the wall and one of the blades was out of balance, 503 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: and so as it spun around, that fourth blade hit 504 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 2: the shroud and it clicked and click click click click 505 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: click cook. As the fan was moving, he said, if 506 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 2: you'd never been in our apartment, you walked in that 507 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: click and might drive you absolutely insane. But he said, 508 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 2: you know, we had that fan for years and after 509 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 2: a while we didn't even notice it anymore. You would 510 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: have noticed it, we wouldn't. And he said, that's exactly 511 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: what it was like walking to school every day murders, rapes, prostitution, drugs, 512 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 2: stepping over people who'd overdose in the hallway to go 513 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: down the steps to get to school. And he said 514 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 2: it became so commonplace that it was like the click 515 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: of that fan, we didn't even notice the trauma and 516 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: dysfunction surrounding us anymore. Yeah, And he said, I just 517 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 2: gotta ask you, do you think as a fourth grader 518 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: I gave twos what fifty divided by two was when 519 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 2: I was just trying to get back and forth to 520 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 2: school and home again without being one of those victims. Yeah, 521 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 2: And he said, and the click of that fan is 522 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: what layers and layers and layers and layers of trauma 523 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: and dysfunction feels like onto a five year old that 524 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: ends up a fourteen year old that doesn't even notice 525 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 2: the dysfunction anymore because it's so commonplace, like the click 526 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 2: on a fan. And is that not amazingly? 527 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 528 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, those are the people that end up in 529 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: San Quentin. 530 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 3: That's right, there's a life for that. 531 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: I worked with for many years who was in Cabrini 532 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: Greens Project in Chicago and used to tell me stories 533 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: about growing up at Cabrini Green told a story about 534 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: you know, when he was really young, people were going 535 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: to kidnap him. Is like a four year old kid 536 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: had to run away from people who were trying to 537 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: kidnap him. I look at it from the standpoint bill 538 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: of you know, you could look at society, and I 539 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: look at it in terms of look at society as 540 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: a funnel. And at the top of the funnel where 541 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: everything comes in, you've got all these inequalities, all these 542 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: inequities in the American society that are bouncing back and forth, 543 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: bouncing back and forth, bouncing back and forth. And then 544 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: there's the funnel part of it. And at the very 545 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: bottom of the funnel, it's the prison population in this country, 546 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: people who basically couldn't manage, they couldn't assimilate into a 547 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: law abiding American society, and they had to revert from 548 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: survival to revert the criminality. Now, even the guys who 549 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: truly understand this, who get to the point of truly 550 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: understanding this, will not make excuses for the crimes that 551 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: they cost, which is, by the way, a really important 552 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: part of restorative justice. Taking personal responsibility for the harm 553 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: that you cost. That's the beginning of a healing for somebody. 554 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: That's a major part of actual rehabilitation, because most people 555 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: who committed violent crimes going to prison in denial of 556 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: the harm that they've cost. 557 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 3: And that's a whole other road we could go down. 558 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: Well. But the interesting part is if yoga the two 559 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 2: steps below yoga from the physical teaches you to calm 560 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 2: yourself and then think about who you are as a 561 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: person and really not meditate, but gets centered, that feels 562 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: like that's a step toward. 563 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: Restoration personal accountability, personal responsibility. 564 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 2: So this was your inclination, but you hadn't proved it 565 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 2: yet and you're working on it right at this point. Yes, yeah, 566 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: so take us more. 567 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: So I just continued on and then really going to 568 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: school on understanding trauma and being trained by doctor vander 569 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: Koch and his people. Bessel Vanderkoke is the is the 570 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: psychiatrist who wrote The Body Keeps the Score Right, and 571 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: he has the Trauma Research Center in Boston and he's trained. 572 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 2: That's the part I don't know that people know that 573 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 2: that author actually has a trauma research. 574 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: Trama Research, Trauma Research foundation. He and his wife Lisha, 575 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: and we're a therapeutic alliance partner. If there's no Prison 576 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: Yoga Project is and we're asked to present at their 577 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: annual conference, which is every May in Boston. But that 578 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: was just that was when we really went to school 579 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: on trauma and really got trained on trauma, and it 580 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: really supported my intuitive approach, but took it much deeper 581 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: so that we were able to apply different kinds of 582 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: movement practices, different kinds of breathing practices, being more informed 583 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: about how we language the class. How important it is 584 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: to use invitational language when you're Everybody who's incarcerated is 585 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: told what to do twenty four to seven from the 586 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: time they get up till the time they go to sleep. 587 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: It's like do this, do that, do this, do that, 588 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: do this? 589 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 3: Do that. 590 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: Nobody ever said if, if you're ready, or if it 591 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: feels right to you. So one of the things that 592 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: we're doing, and this is also trauma related, is we're 593 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: establishing agency for them. You have a choice here. I'm 594 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: leading you through a practice. It's not military commanding you 595 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 1: got to do this, you got to do that. I'm 596 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: providing you with an opportunity to do this. 597 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 3: In that you develop. 598 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: Trust, right because I'm not kicking anybody's no I'm basically 599 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: taking them along. I'm bringing them along in a way 600 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: where they feel safe in an environment where it's very 601 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: rare to feel safe, and I'm establishing a relationship of trust. 602 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of our conversation with James Fox. Guys, 603 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 2: you don't want to miss Part two. It's now available 604 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 2: to listen to together. Guys, we can change this country, 605 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 2: but it starts with you. I'll see in part two.