1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, really, there's no country in the world that's 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: got inflation anywhere near these levels. You don't see that 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: anywhere else in the world right now. Hello, and welcome 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: back to Bloomberg Benchmark Show about the global economy, and 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: a very happy new year to all of our listeners 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: and fans. I'm Scott landman and economics editor with Bloomberg 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: News in Washington. Today I'm flying solo as your host 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: because Dan and Kate were unable to be with us, 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: but I'm very glad to have my colleague David Popadopoulos, 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: Managing editor at Bloomberg in New York, joining me today 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: for the show. Hey, David, how's it going excellent? Scott. Economics, 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: in one sense of the word, is what we call 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: the tracking of the blizzard of indexes that we get 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: on a regular basis all over the world to track 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: the relative strength of different economies. UH covers everything from 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: GDP to the labor market to inner national trade and 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: and also whether prices are rising or falling. And it's 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: that last measure that we are here to discuss today. 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: The country is Venezuela, and the index is something we 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: created all by ourselves. It's called the Cafe con La index, Yes, Scott, So, 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: Unlike most inflation indexes, this one isn't exactly scientific. Um. 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: It tracks just one product, a single cup of coffee 23 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: serve piping hot at a baker in eastern Caracas, the 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: capital of Venezuela. Yet the index plugs a gap in 25 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: Inflation is rising so fast in Venezuela, and the government 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: is so embarrassed by the pace of price increases that 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: it stopped publishing the data a long time ago. Uh So, 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: and the drum roll, please, excellent drum roll, Scott. As 29 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: of this week, our capic N index reached eight hundred 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: and forty nine percent. That is the annualized inflation rate 31 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: we have from the index. Now, we don't have a 32 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: full year's worth of data yet um on the price 33 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: of coffee in our index. But since we began collecting 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: the figures back in August, we've seen massive, back to 35 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: back to back price increases in just a span of 36 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: several weeks in some occasions. And that that's compared with 37 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: what like two percent, just under two percent really right 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: now in the US. And you had inflation peaking attent 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: in yeah and and beyond the U s Scot I mean, really, 40 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: there's no country in the world that's got inflation anywhere 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: near these levels right now. Hyper inflation. Of course, there's 42 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: been plenty of episodes in the past where hyper inflation 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: was kind of in vogue. I mean in the bad 44 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: sense of the word. You know that you you had 45 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: hyper inflation every bouts into their places. You don't see 46 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: that anywhere else in the world right now. Uh. Steve 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: Hankey of Johns Hopkins University has kept track of this, 48 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: and nothing remote compares with Hungary in forty six, which 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: get this, it hit a monthly rate of forty two 50 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 1: quadrillion percent, which means prices doubling every fifteen hours. Do 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: do we ever use quadrup don't. I don't even know 52 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: what mathematically that would look like. That it was it 53 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: was ten to the sixteen power Um. You know got 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: Germany's Weimar Republic in the nineteen twenties hit a mirror 55 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: twenty nine thousand five percent, which is, you know, it's nothing. 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: Even though that's held out as the main example in 57 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: recent years, Zimbabwe has often made headlines with its hyper inflation. 58 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: About ten years ago that was at eighty billion percent. 59 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: Now we're going to get an underground perspective of this issue. 60 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: Joining us on the phone is Fabio, a correspondent in 61 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: our Caracas bureau who has helped get these regular updates 62 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: for the cafe index. Fabiola, thanks for joining us, Thanks 63 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: for having me here. So what does a cafe con 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: l a cost? Right now? In Venezuela, Benesela has two 65 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: sets of prices. One is the due to the official 66 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: eccentch rate and the other the unofficial exchange rates, so 67 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: the prices vary a lot. So um. By the official 68 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: exchange rate, you can buy a couple of carin let 69 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: a cafe or a cup of coffee for one dollar 70 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: and six or three cents. That's the official exchange rate. 71 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: That it's around six hundred and seventy believers per dollar. 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: But if you if you compare it to unofficial rate, 73 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: it's about thirty five cents the cup of coffee, so um, 74 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: because the unofficial rate is around three thousand and two 75 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: hundred boliveries per dollar. So that gives you the whole 76 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: view of the difference of prices of cafe con letter here. 77 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: So when it comes to the actual hit to somebody's pocket, 78 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: what does it feel like for people in Venezuela. Is 79 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: it the thirty two cents or is it the dollar sixty? Uh? Well, 80 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: people in Veneseta here have that consuming because it's very 81 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: that the price go prices go up every two months, 82 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: as the index shows. So um, a couple of coffees 83 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: really a luxury here? Is there any way David to 84 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: kind of put in perspective what what this means in 85 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: someone's wallet in Venezuela with a scarcity, like just a 86 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: regular cup of coffee at Starbucks here costs two dollars, 87 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: you can you can spend a few dollars if you 88 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: want something more complicated like a latte and other drinks. 89 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: What are we talking about? So in our index we 90 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: have and this is actually a price that Fabiola gets 91 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: from from a cafe a bakery in eastern Caracas. We 92 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,239 Speaker 1: have it at roughly one thousand, one hundred bowl of ours. 93 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: And and and for a little bit of perspective on 94 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: that one thousand, one hundred bull of ours I leave 95 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: is uh is a very significant actually chunk of what 96 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: the the essentially the minimum wage would be in Venezuela. 97 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: Fabula correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the minimum 98 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: wage when you include um, food subsidies and everything that 99 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: people get is something like what a hundred and thirty 100 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: thousand bolivars a month? Is that right? What's the exactly? Yes, 101 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: that's correct, that's the latest. So when when you're when 102 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: you're for and and there are many folks who would 103 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 1: be around that minimum wage number, you're making a hundred 104 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: thirty thousand boliv ours a month, and one cup of 105 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: coffee uh is one thousand, one hundred bole of ours. Uh. 106 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: It's a significant amount of money. So Scott in other words, 107 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: of your yeah, your monthly expenses exactly. So if you 108 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: that you do in one day exactly if you were 109 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: and I you or I were to show up in Venezuela, uh, 110 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: and and you know most people frankly buying sell dollars 111 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: in the black market, it would be pennies for us, 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: it would be insignificant. But if you are in Venezuelan 113 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: earning in bouliv oars the local currency, yeah, it's suddenly 114 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: become prohibitively expensive. So it's business gotten a lot slower. 115 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: Fabiola places that you know that sell cafic on late chase, 116 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: those kinds of cafes. Cafricnetto was usually what you got 117 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: in the morning, you stopped at the local bakery and 118 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: got a cup of coffee and something to eat very fast. 119 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: But nowadays the bakeries, you know, they're not selling him 120 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: very much. Cafric Connette there, it's become luxury to the 121 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: Venezuelana don't have any of those places had to close. No, no, no, 122 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: not too close because they sell all the things. But um, 123 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, the really complex thing about the cafric Connett 124 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: is that it's a product made of the staples that 125 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: are very scarce here in Venezuela with the current crisis. 126 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: It's sugar, milk and coffee, and those are the three 127 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: staples that we Venezuela has to import these days. For instance, 128 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: back in ten ten years ago, we were so sufficient 129 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: in milk and coffee and sugar, but nowadays we have 130 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: to import roughly seventy five percent of the coffee. We 131 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: we can shu him that it's a that's it's a 132 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: very big dramatic paint for the cafic one. They say 133 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: here as as a staples say it said. At the beginning, 134 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: my thought was that you know what I remember when 135 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: I lived in Venezuela in the ninety nineties, actually right 136 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: up to the time Hugo Chavez took office. In you 137 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: you walk into any one of these bakeries and the 138 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: cafe was something that just they just moved massive quantities 139 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: of It was almost kind of like a lost leader, right. 140 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: It was helped was what you did. You sold to 141 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: help get people in the door. And then they were 142 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: in the door, they bought a cafe, and they bought 143 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: a they bought a loaf of venezuela and bread, and 144 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: then they know, they see something else and something else 145 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: and something else, and you know, it was just something 146 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: that's just sort of helped churn you. You would turn 147 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: massive volumes and and you really get the sense that, yeah, 148 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: that that is slowed quite a bit. So are we 149 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: gonna have to change this index pretty soon? If if 150 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: nobody nobody's buying, well, you know, Fabiola and I will 151 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: certainly think about it. I think the issue you have 152 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: is that I don't know that people are consuming much 153 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: of anything, So we would start to uh have to 154 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: think hard about what we would latch onto if it 155 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: weren't Catholic. On that well, well, maybe Fabila can talk 156 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,239 Speaker 1: about you know what about other basic goods in Venezuela. 157 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: I mean, how are people Can we measure inflation by 158 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: their prices or how are people paying for them? Are 159 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: they fixed prices and how does how does that work? 160 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: As I said before, it's like two works to dimensional 161 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: economy because you have fixed prices. The government has set 162 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: prices for stables like sugar, coffee, milk, meat, but you 163 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: can also find those tables at an official rate. So 164 00:09:53,600 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: you have like two economies. And yes, these tables sugar, coffee, milk, 165 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: So there they have hit the cyling, I mean, and 166 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: they're very very scars and you have to accute a 167 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: lot to get uh coffee, these tables on the fixed 168 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: price if you want, if you can't afford to queue 169 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: for five hours for three hours, or you just can't 170 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: find them in in your neighborhood, or you have to 171 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: buy them at an official rate. So um, yes, you 172 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: can measure inflation by these tables like flour, corn flower. 173 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: Uh they're going up every every month if you measured 174 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: it by the an official rate. But the fixed prices 175 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: of the government they have to They have been adjusting 176 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: these tables uh every three to four months and the 177 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: last uh year that's uh, that's it tour the kind 178 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: of at prices, uh you see on every product now 179 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: one puzzle for a lot of us outside Venezuela, the 180 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: outside looking in is you know, things have been in 181 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: such bad shape now for some time, but we wonder why, 182 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: uh Mr Maduro continues to remain in power. You know, 183 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: what point does you know, does the pressure become so 184 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: overwhelming that there is some kind of political regime change 185 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: in Venezuela. Right, Well, it's Scott. That's kind of the 186 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: million dollar question. And that's something that folks have been 187 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: asking for an awful long time. I mean, you know, 188 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: I was recalling the other day that you know, his predecessor, 189 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Chob is the man who essentially h hand picked Mr 190 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: mother Would to run the country and succeed him. Um, 191 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, there was there was the scuttle button caroc 192 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: Is back in the late nineties when Chob was taking 193 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: office that oh that he was going his administration was 194 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: going to collapse imminently at any point in time, and 195 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: that he was going to be impeede immediately. And here 196 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: we are twenty years later, and uh, and and the 197 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: and the regime as it's to be understood, uh with 198 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: Mr Motherwood was succeeding him is still there. Uh. I mean, 199 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: I think it is a head scratcher even for a 200 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: lot of Venezuelans um because when you look at just 201 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: how bad things are, how dysfunctional that place has become. Uh, 202 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: it's hard to understand how they're holding on. I will 203 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: say this that there has been a big push to 204 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: recall the president. Uh they the opposition certainly has gathered 205 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: enough signatures to make that happen. But but the government 206 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: has put up one obstacle after another after another to 207 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: block it. And Uh, you're in this sort of holding 208 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: pattern that we've seen, frankly for for a pretty long time. 209 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: And is the country still able to sell oil or 210 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: has that stuff? It does? It does? Oil production is down, 211 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: exports are down, but it still does uh export. I 212 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: believe it's producing. I mean again, there are no official 213 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: figures really, but estimates would put it in the ballpark 214 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: of two and a half million, I believe all the day. 215 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: You know, before Mr Travis took office in the late nineties, 216 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: the vision of the previous administration was to ramp up 217 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: output to somewhere around five million barrels or so plus. 218 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: This is the country with the world's largest oil reserves. 219 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: And yet all we've seen, unfortunately over the past two decades, 220 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: certainly unfortunate for the Venezuela and people who are now 221 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: becoming deeply impoverished is declining output. So fabiola. You know, 222 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: if you had to sum up the mood of people, 223 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: uh that you talked to on a regular basis, or 224 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: people around Caracas, around Venezuela looking at how you know, 225 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: how how much the economy has sung, how much inflation 226 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: is growing, what would you say? Well, if you asked 227 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: me the question about six months ago, people were very angry, 228 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: I mean up until December, very angry at the situation, 229 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: very frustrated, but in more and more openly talking against 230 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: the government at every corner, at every street. UM. In 231 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: contrast to a year or two years ago where people 232 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: did not connect the bat shape of the economy to 233 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: the running of the politics. But nowadays, after well the 234 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: major blow at December that there was not going to 235 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: be a referendum, UM, the mood in the streets is 236 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: very depressed. People are very sad. The mood is pretty 237 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: h low. UM. In contrast to three months ago where 238 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: UM many Venezuela thoughts. The reference recal was going to 239 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: happen some way, and there were demonstrations as the streets 240 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: and but um slowly the government curtailed um that possibility 241 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: at the High Court ruled against it. So um, the 242 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: mood is very um sad I mean U that's how 243 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: I perceive it today. Well, it doesn't sound like a 244 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: good situation by any means, But Fabriola, we will definitely 245 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: look forward to your reporting in the coming months on 246 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: the situation there. Thanks so much for joining us, Fabriola perfect, 247 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, and thank you David for joining us to 248 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: my pleasure. Benchmark will be back next week and until then, 249 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: you can find us on the Bloomberg terminal and Bloomberg 250 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: dot com, as well as on iTunes, Pocketcast, Stitcher, and 251 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: the revamped Bloomberg app. While you're there, take a minute 252 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: to rate and review the show so more listeners can 253 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: find us. Let us know what you thought of the show. 254 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at at scott Landman. 255 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: Our guest Fabriola is at at Z E R P 256 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: I U S and just one final note. Benchmark is 257 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: produced by Sarah Patterson. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is 258 00:15:52,200 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: Alec McCabe. Thanks for listening, See you next time. The 259 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: Pater b My Finger four