Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Mussed Up, an
Speaker 4: SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We're here talking s VW, true crime, celebs, fun up top.
Speaker 2: We chit chat a little bit, and if you'd like
Speaker 2: to know Kara's hair isn't the last samurai type of
Speaker 2: vibe at the moment?
Speaker 3: Very Tom Curry. Yes, a some hair up, some hair down.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm ready to samurai. And we facetimed yesterday. That
Speaker 2: was really fun quick, yes, very brief, very briefly. I
Speaker 2: was chopping up a fruit platter.
Speaker 3: What you were doing.
Speaker 1: Lisa was living a New York St. Patrick's Day fantasy
Speaker 1: with her friends having fun corn beef. I was also
Speaker 1: at a corn beef party with our other friends, preparing
Speaker 1: the fruit for my children that won't eat anything.
Speaker 3: We're a veg head.
Speaker 2: I forgot well because our other friend was also making
Speaker 2: corn beef, and I realized we have so many Irish
Speaker 2: corn beef people like, well.
Speaker 3: Lane's more just of a chef.
Speaker 2: But it is fun that all of us were eating
Speaker 2: corn beef throughout the country together and that makes me happy.
Speaker 3: So I loved that.
Speaker 1: Actually, the thing where I was was fellow RM host
Speaker 1: Bananamal kurb Bronneler, and he made these green rice crispy
Speaker 1: treats and look the green food coloring.
Speaker 3: It didn't turn out that great.
Speaker 1: I said, it looks like gravel, but it tasted like heaven.
Speaker 1: Like these were the best rice crispery trees. I go,
Speaker 1: you got to give me your recipe. He goes, it's
Speaker 1: just a rest. I go, No, When I make them,
Speaker 1: they're too dry. They get dry. So these were like
Speaker 1: so much marshmallow.
Speaker 2: He goes.
Speaker 3: We were low on rice crispies and I think he
Speaker 3: used extra butter.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I want the recipe, like I
Speaker 1: need it, Like it was so good. I was eating
Speaker 1: so many green gravelly rice crispy treats yesterday.
Speaker 2: Well, for me, my great thing was, you know, we
Speaker 2: were hanging out all day and then at night was
Speaker 2: when you know, I was drunken high. So then I
Speaker 2: made a sandwich with this horse rattish creamy spread that
Speaker 2: land made on sour dough rye that I brought, and
Speaker 2: then corn beef and oven roasted cabbage and that.
Speaker 3: Was my late night dinner.
Speaker 2: And it was amazing and I'm craving it already again,
Speaker 2: like I like worse radish and even the smell of
Speaker 2: corn beef makes me pumped.
Speaker 3: Like I walked into the apartment, I was like.
Speaker 4: This is it.
Speaker 5: I loved it.
Speaker 3: It's all happening Sheenachet style. But I didn't wear green.
Speaker 3: I didn't wear green. I didn't wear green.
Speaker 1: We all threw on a little green. The kids were
Speaker 1: wearing green, and I like, you know, but it was
Speaker 1: really cute. I said, please that video of like all
Speaker 1: these little kids like demanding they they demanded a dance party.
Speaker 1: They go, we want to have a dance party. We
Speaker 1: brought them into the office. They were like, it has
Speaker 1: to be dark. We shut all the blinds. We put
Speaker 1: on like a little rotating like light that makes, you know,
Speaker 1: shoots light around the room. And then they were demanding
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift songs. And so I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: have to record this for Lisa. She's gonna love this.
Speaker 1: So we sent you know, the kids and like my son.
Speaker 3: Was in a dress.
Speaker 1: Huski, my daughter was in a dress, which is weird,
Speaker 1: and everybody was pumped.
Speaker 3: Oski was in a dress. It was really cute.
Speaker 1: Yes, Rosie was demanding sandstorm by dar rude. Then after
Speaker 1: a sandstorm we moved into a tailor medley that at
Speaker 1: our friend's oldest daughter was obviously like fucking like singing
Speaker 1: her heart out like she is tailor's with well.
Speaker 2: And that was really shocking because usually she's like, stop
Speaker 2: taping me, get the camera away, I don't want any photos.
Speaker 2: And in this one she was singing to the camera
Speaker 2: performing at the Grammys. She was so in tune with
Speaker 2: what I wanted. Yeah, I got a Taylor Swift balloon
Speaker 2: and give.
Speaker 1: It to me by a friend, which you did send
Speaker 1: me a picture of and I was like, wow, that
Speaker 1: looks so big.
Speaker 2: It's such a good bloon. Did you bring it home
Speaker 2: on the subway or like in a cab?
Speaker 3: I took a car. I took a car. But what
Speaker 3: was interesting was she did warm me.
Speaker 2: She goes, I have a surprise for you, And for
Speaker 2: some reason I thought she bought me a bath mat
Speaker 2: because I've been talking about like bath mate struggles.
Speaker 3: I don't know whatever.
Speaker 2: And when I arrived and it was a Taylor Swift bloon,
Speaker 2: and I was a lot happier because I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: thought of that, And I can get my own fucking
Speaker 2: bath mat right. They just get too dirty engrossed right away.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be picking it up and down.
Speaker 2: So I have to get like a wood one or
Speaker 2: a fast drying like I don't like this rigamarole.
Speaker 3: Well, I have a fast drying one. I have a
Speaker 3: fasting also black send me a link, so.
Speaker 1: It's not picking up every little you know like thing,
Speaker 1: and but I washed them when my like every two weeks.
Speaker 3: Basically, I don't want to do that. I don't want
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 2: And so our friends have this like it's just wood
Speaker 2: planks and it doesn't really work and it's kind of
Speaker 2: a nightmare. But I think I might do it just
Speaker 2: so I don't have to wash it, wash it or
Speaker 2: deal with this rug. I just don't want. There's just
Speaker 2: certain things. It's kind of like when I didn't want
Speaker 2: to put the silverware in the containers.
Speaker 3: There's just certain things that bother me.
Speaker 1: The one I have is not expensive, So what if
Speaker 1: you got too and you just like every two weeks,
Speaker 1: swapped it out, put it in with your laundry.
Speaker 3: But then you have the other putting a rug in
Speaker 3: with my laundry. Oh, you don't want to do that.
Speaker 2: There's no fucking way. No, okay, okay, okay, No. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure my amazing lady will do a separate wash.
Speaker 2: It just sickens me.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to do I understand that I
Speaker 1: actually put my MAT's in separate I do.
Speaker 2: But I did find a nail place. Oooh they look great. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's really good.
Speaker 5: But what is that?
Speaker 3: I can't tell? Like a light purple, light pink. It's
Speaker 3: a lavender. It's a lavender.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have to do quiet money or luxury or whatever.
Speaker 2: I'm filming a short part in a TV show and
Speaker 2: I'm an upper class woman, and so I was told
Speaker 2: to do quiet luxury nails.
Speaker 3: Didn't know that quiet luxury. I love that. Wait, you've
Speaker 3: never heard that. You're not on the internet. You're too busy.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: I think I know about quiet luxury. I think we've
Speaker 3: mentioned it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're Connecticut, of course. Yes, No, I know about
Speaker 2: quiet luxury. Oh my god, Kara. So I was in
Speaker 2: Philly this weekend. We've been before. I've been before. I
Speaker 2: fell in love with Philly this trip, I truly fell
Speaker 2: in love.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2: I got to do an interview on a trolley and
Speaker 2: they took me around. I learned so many cool lessons
Speaker 2: I didn't know Philly cheese steaks, Pat, that's a jew.
Speaker 3: The reason it used to be just me and the
Speaker 3: reason it's cheese.
Speaker 2: Whiz, It's because it's cheese in a can, so it
Speaker 2: didn't fuck with the kosher kitchen. Oh interesting, And that's
Speaker 2: how it all started. And I was like, wow, that's exciting.
Speaker 2: I went to the Fourth Street Deli. I just there
Speaker 2: was something in the air in Philly this weekend where
Speaker 2: I fell in love. But I heard about some of
Speaker 2: their killers and they're twisted. I don't know if people
Speaker 2: we have to see if there's an SVU episode based
Speaker 2: on the Cobbler, because this motherfucker sickening killer. But not
Speaker 2: only that, he trained his other son to be a
Speaker 2: killer and then together they killed their other son, like
Speaker 2: he helped his dad kill his brother.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And he was like a shoe cobbler, like fucking sick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he committed later crimes with his twelve year old son. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then there's also a criminal of a cookie monster.
Speaker 1: He did have special needs, but he was killing sex workers,
Speaker 1: but he carried around a stuffed animal.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Philly, you take everything to.
Speaker 1: The next level, Like you guys can't have gritty and
Speaker 1: the cookie monster that's too crazy for me, that's too.
Speaker 3: Much, and the hh Holmes and like all of it.
Speaker 3: I just wow.
Speaker 2: The killers isn't what and the people were just great.
Speaker 2: I just really I felt it. I felt it.
Speaker 3: I like the brick buildings, I felt the history. I
Speaker 3: felt it. I love that.
Speaker 1: I have to tell you something I did this weekend,
Speaker 1: which is I was scrolling my Insta and I see
Speaker 1: this headline for a Vulture article that says Irish Wish
Speaker 1: is a crypto fascist AI generated harbinger of doom. If
Speaker 1: you fucking think I did not read that Kara before
Speaker 1: and after watching Irish Wish, then you don't know me.
Speaker 3: Oh that's yeah. I have to say, how damn you.
Speaker 3: I just want to give a shout out.
Speaker 1: The Vulture writer is named Rachel Handler, and I see
Speaker 1: this thing and I go, oh my god, Jared, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to read the full review, but I
Speaker 1: think we should watch Irish Wish.
Speaker 3: So on Saturday night we watched Irish Wish.
Speaker 2: Both of the hosts fell asleep and went to bed,
Speaker 2: and I stayed in their house alone to finish Irish Wish.
Speaker 3: That is what I did. I was like last night, Yes, amazing.
Speaker 3: So I did this on Saturday night.
Speaker 1: I literally Jared and I were roasting it so hard
Speaker 1: together as it was happening. We were having we were dying,
Speaker 1: like I thought I was going to take my inhaler,
Speaker 1: Like I was wheezing, Like we were laughing so hard
Speaker 1: at how much wacko shit there is in this movie. Like,
Speaker 1: and then I went and I read this girl's article afterwards,
Speaker 1: and like the combination of the.
Speaker 3: Two just really gave me so much joy.
Speaker 1: She was such a funny writer, and she was pointing
Speaker 1: out most of the stuff that we pointed out.
Speaker 3: There were some things she missed.
Speaker 2: Mine is still open in my tabs, like I'm looking
Speaker 2: at because that's how much I was so taken by.
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, it's like, you know, we do
Speaker 2: both also like to watch Housewives and like read Brian
Speaker 2: moylan recaps, like it is fun to like watch something
Speaker 2: that's kind of campy with a funny recap to it,
Speaker 2: and this girl's Irish wish recap. She literally just does
Speaker 2: a list of like forty to fifty things that are
Speaker 2: bunkers about the movie, and it's just so funny. Well,
Speaker 2: because this is the thing we are always rooting for
Speaker 2: Lindsay Lohan. She has our you know, Princess Diana whatever.
Speaker 2: So I don't think so I just said that, but
Speaker 2: thinking Who's beloved and all the press has been so
Speaker 2: good and I've just been so excited, and then it's like,
Speaker 2: what is this?
Speaker 3: This is not even what did the premiere feel?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 2: Did Steph Curry go to the premiere to support his
Speaker 2: wife and go good job?
Speaker 5: Like what?
Speaker 2: I just need to know that what is happening in
Speaker 2: everyone's brains as they want, Like it's Lindsay like we
Speaker 2: killed it?
Speaker 3: Or is she like is it Ai? What are the sets?
Speaker 3: They're not actually in a car in Times Square? What
Speaker 3: is being filmed? What is real?
Speaker 1: No, it's a lot of it is like insane, like
Speaker 1: green screen backdrops like this Times Square, Like some of
Speaker 1: the photos that are even lying around the house are
Speaker 1: like so photoshopped, Like it's crazy. The script seems like
Speaker 1: it was written by Ai, which is what this girl
Speaker 1: points out a million times, like it's like not the
Speaker 1: way anybody talks. I kind of feel like Lindsay Lohan
Speaker 1: was such a talented young actress and she did all
Speaker 1: these like kind of like different varying roles and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I think fame broke her a little bit, and
Speaker 1: so now we're just giving her gentle easy roles to
Speaker 1: do where it's not really flexing her acting muscles very hard.
Speaker 3: But she looks good.
Speaker 2: Now I understand the genre, Like to me, okay, you're
Speaker 2: doing a Hallmark Christmas movie, like this is for the
Speaker 2: masses for a holiday.
Speaker 3: But this isn't even that genre.
Speaker 2: It's really more twisted than I could have ever imagined,
Speaker 2: how weird and funky it is. That Like, why is
Speaker 2: a tour bus of Ireland dropping people off door to
Speaker 2: door at.
Speaker 3: Door to do at their house? No, I mean that's
Speaker 3: why I go.
Speaker 1: The bus is backing up now the bus drove her
Speaker 1: down a driveway and is backing out, Like what's happening?
Speaker 2: Also, nothing in Ireland looks like that, Like, I'm not
Speaker 2: a profet. I've only been to Ireland. Well, I've been
Speaker 2: there three times thank you. I do love it there.
Speaker 2: I've been to the Cliffs of More where they go,
Speaker 2: but it just is so And then I like the
Speaker 2: way she described that the Irish winking woman that shows
Speaker 2: up out of nowhere wearing a quilt.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, and Jane Seymour also just the four D looks bad,
Speaker 2: like it's just too I don't know.
Speaker 3: Everyone should watch it though.
Speaker 2: And I like how they also make fun of like
Speaker 2: expository language, like I understand sometimes you do have to
Speaker 2: explain thing so the audience knows, but the dialogue is
Speaker 2: so heavy handed, or like they go to Jane Seymour
Speaker 2: and she works out of college and just like over
Speaker 2: the football field it says like University of des Moines,
Speaker 2: like in giant lights on a field.
Speaker 1: The lettering was so insane because it's not like they
Speaker 1: went back and we're like back in Ireland or they
Speaker 1: or they wrote this place in Ireland in the same
Speaker 1: massive lettering. Like the lettering was so insane. Everything was crazy.
Speaker 1: All the choices were wild. I did not understand anything.
Speaker 1: But if you want to see a ninety minute enjoyable, roastable, funny,
Speaker 1: don't have to think about.
Speaker 2: It movie, but also scary this is the future if
Speaker 2: we do not invest in art. Yes, like this is
Speaker 2: what you get, like if you guys are not terrified
Speaker 2: of AI and the like modernization of whatever. I don't
Speaker 2: even know what words to use, but this is the
Speaker 2: future if we do not take a grass Agreed. Agreed.
Speaker 1: And it was interesting to read in the article some
Speaker 1: stuff I didn't know, which was like that Lindsay Lohan's
Speaker 1: husband is like a co producer of the movie and
Speaker 1: that's why, like she's really dressed very modestly the whole time.
Speaker 2: She's dressed like she's going to a job interview in
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven. There's no kissing, there's no low
Speaker 2: cut anything like, no, like everybody is so modest, Like
Speaker 2: it's really it's like it feels like it's for like
Speaker 2: Maga tradwives.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, it's wild.
Speaker 1: But I also laughed my ass off watching it and
Speaker 1: reading this article as an accompaniment. So read it, watch it,
Speaker 1: enjoy it, but just be careful because this is what
Speaker 1: Oscar movies are gonna look like.
Speaker 3: Well be cause that is that's what else.
Speaker 2: I was thinking, Oh, we're watching this and we see
Speaker 2: the flaws and like, are there people watching this going.
Speaker 3: That was awesome. I got to tell my cousin to
Speaker 3: watch it.
Speaker 1: A lot of the comments were just like it's camp,
Speaker 1: don't take it so seriously, and I'm like, yeah, it's camp.
Speaker 1: And she's writing about how it's camp and funny. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I don't think, but the comments are like, I loved it.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was fun and like light and easy.
Speaker 1: I think some people times when the world is in shambles,
Speaker 1: some people need really mindless stuff to lean on.
Speaker 3: Because I liked her Winter one.
Speaker 2: We watched her like Christmas Christmavie last year, and I
Speaker 2: thought that one was truly like Casa Blanca.
Speaker 3: Compared to this one, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think also they let Lohand be a
Speaker 1: little bit of like the bitch at the beginning, so
Speaker 1: she kind of had like a character shift and was
Speaker 1: funny in that Christmas one, because the Christmas one was
Speaker 1: basically overboard, where you know, amnesia and then she becomes
Speaker 1: a nice person. But like I I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just had a blast. I really had a blast watching
Speaker 1: this insane fucking movie.
Speaker 3: But I agree, I.
Speaker 2: Don't want to see more of these. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to be this one special one for me. So she's
Speaker 2: like a book editor. You know, she edits this guy's book,
Speaker 2: but then she keeps carrying the book everywhere. She goes
Speaker 2: like put the book down. And at the party, her.
Speaker 1: Best friend Steph Curry's wife Ayosha Curry goes, she goes,
Speaker 1: you really killed it on the cover art? Stunning? Are
Speaker 1: you seeing it for the first time today at the
Speaker 1: book release party? You're the book editor. What's happening? Everything
Speaker 1: is so insane.
Speaker 3: And then my friend reminded me of this.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this, because I think
Speaker 2: I blocked it out, But remember Lindsay Lohan five years
Speaker 2: ago did try to kidnap children off the street.
Speaker 3: Do you remember.
Speaker 2: No, they were like Syrian refugees, like a Syrian family
Speaker 2: was hanging out, and Lindsay Lohan tried to take the
Speaker 2: kids away from the mom to quote unquote save them.
Speaker 2: And then in the article it sad the mom punched
Speaker 2: Lindsay to make her drop her children, and Lindsay's like,
Speaker 2: I was just trying to help these refugees, and the
Speaker 2: mom's like, we don't need your help. Stop taking my children.
Speaker 2: And she tried to kidnap Syrian children off the street.
Speaker 2: I mean, she has incredible pr I'm sorry the fact
Speaker 2: that none of us remembered it. She brought that up
Speaker 2: to me and I go, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: She was just dancing in Greece. They go, no, no,
Speaker 2: she was trying to kidnap children off the street. And
Speaker 2: I totally forgot that so crazy.
Speaker 3: You don't remember it, do you? I don't. I now
Speaker 3: that you're saying it. It's it's ringing a bell. It's
Speaker 3: not like totally not ringing a bell. But I forgot.
Speaker 3: I mean, she was doing a lot of crazy shit
Speaker 3: back then.
Speaker 1: It was the mikon Nos and like the you know,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of crazy stuff happening with the
Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan beach club, and owning a beach club is
Speaker 1: different than then capping a family.
Speaker 3: I understand that. I understand that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like she got as close to it
Speaker 1: as I mean, I don't think they were calling Olivia Benson.
Speaker 1: But you know, that is really fucked. That's very fucked. Obviously,
Speaker 1: let's start. We got to get into this because okay,
Speaker 1: we have the Guests of the Century. We have a
Speaker 1: crazy good episode for you guys today so let's get going. Obviously,
Speaker 1: go to Thats Messed Up Live dot com for merch
Speaker 1: tour dates all that other kind of stuff, But for now,
Speaker 1: listen to our glorious podcast.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Today we are doing the episode Crush, Season ten, episode twenty.
Speaker 1: Do you think of the song? It's just yeah, a
Speaker 1: little crush. Yeah, that's what I think of. I was
Speaker 1: really into that song my freshman year of college. It
Speaker 1: was on more than one mix. This episode's from two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, baby, and it's wild. I was telling
Speaker 1: Lisa this earlier, but this is one of those episodes
Speaker 1: like I know I've seen it, but I absolutely suppressed it.
Speaker 1: So it was very thrilling for me to rewatch it
Speaker 1: because it felt like a brand new episode to.
Speaker 3: Me, not for me, not for me.
Speaker 2: I know this pretty well. I probably didn't even have
Speaker 2: to watch it again to really I really.
Speaker 5: Know it well.
Speaker 1: I know it because you know it has we'll get
Speaker 1: to it. But it has a guest star who is
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with. She's just such a bitch. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I know that I've seen her episode, But as I
Speaker 1: was watching this, I was like, wait, what happens? Like
Speaker 1: I didn't know what happened, so I was really excited
Speaker 1: to rewatch it. Of course, now I've rewatched it twice.
Speaker 1: So the first thing we see when we open that
Speaker 1: episode is an extreme close up of a girl being
Speaker 1: kind of slammed against a locker. But then she's being
Speaker 1: made out with Is it against her will? We can't tell.
Speaker 1: She doesn't look like she's having fun. She looks a
Speaker 1: little distressed. Then the camera pulls out and it's a
Speaker 1: high school couple making out against the lockers, and now
Speaker 1: she seems a little bit more into it. This is
Speaker 1: going to be a theme, you know, throughout the episode.
Speaker 1: The bell rings and she's like, okay, horn dog, I
Speaker 1: have class.
Speaker 3: What's the theme? Lockers or like game?
Speaker 1: No, just like loving somebody but also not being comfortable
Speaker 1: with things that are going on, and you know, being
Speaker 1: something like are you into it or you not in
Speaker 1: you know, like that kind of thing. So yeah, the
Speaker 1: bell rings and she's like, okay, horn dog, I have class,
Speaker 1: Like get your denim boner off of me. And she's very,
Speaker 1: very blonde, and he has a lot of hair, and
Speaker 1: this is what when I was in high school, we
Speaker 1: called these guys lettuce heads and it was the classic
Speaker 1: soccer player hair, like this is what all the soccer
Speaker 1: guys looked like, just like curly, like wiry hair that
Speaker 1: was just kind of like barely brushed. So this little
Speaker 1: lettuce headman looks like he plays soccer. But that's just
Speaker 1: my experience and it's like, yeah, he just looks like
Speaker 1: he forgot what a haircut is. And this actress playing
Speaker 1: the blonde is named Carly Schroeder, and she worked for
Speaker 1: a while and was a recurring character on Maguire, but
Speaker 1: then she left the business and actually joined the Army
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, so she's currently in the army. So
Speaker 1: thank you for your service, Carly, both on SVU and
Speaker 1: you know, in the army. And then the boyfriend is
Speaker 1: played by Alexander Nifong who had a moment but quit
Speaker 1: acting like ten years ago. So nothing nothing there, uh,
Speaker 1: in terms of our IMDb deep dives. So the guy's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: call me later, and they say I love you to
Speaker 1: each other, and then right after they part ways, this
Speaker 1: random guy goes, we all love you, Kim, And you know,
Speaker 1: through the camera work and the music, you can feel
Speaker 1: like suddenly all the eyes of every kid in this
Speaker 1: bustling hallway are on her, like everyone's giggling, whispering, and
Speaker 1: the one guy goes and we've seen what he loves,
Speaker 1: like the line readings are very bad. And then a
Speaker 1: girl goes, hey, Kim, wanna borrow my wonderbra Like it's
Speaker 1: literally feels like a dream, like where you show up
Speaker 1: naked to school or something and everybody's, you know, staring
Speaker 1: at you and giggling. So someone says, when's the next show?
Speaker 1: And who else you putting out for? So we're getting
Speaker 1: the idea here that there's some kind of you know,
Speaker 1: like high school pictures or something involved. Kim looks confused
Speaker 1: and humiliated, and in all of this hubbub, she slips
Speaker 1: and falls down the stairs in a full action movie
Speaker 1: tumble like it's very movie of the week, like she's
Speaker 1: ass over teakettle, just really rolling.
Speaker 3: Down those stairs.
Speaker 1: So at the hospital, now Benson a sailer there getting
Speaker 1: the rundown from a doctor.
Speaker 3: The girl's name is Kimberly Garnett.
Speaker 1: She's fifteen and she's in a coma from an intracranial bleed.
Speaker 1: Elliott and Olivia are like, okay, why are we here?
Speaker 1: And the doctor's like well, this girl's been abused. We
Speaker 1: found a bruise on her scalp that's unrelated to this fall,
Speaker 1: and he guesses she was kicked in the head a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago and it wasn't the first time.
Speaker 1: She's got calcifications on her brain from an old subdrylhematoma,
Speaker 1: maybe eight to ten months old. Full body scan showed
Speaker 1: healed ribs, bone chips, a previous evulsion in the shoulder,
Speaker 1: and Olivia is like, somebody's beating the hell out of her.
Speaker 3: Dun't dunt, dun, duh, duh.
Speaker 1: And then we're at the credits and now top of
Speaker 1: act one, Kim's mother, Liz is talking to the cops
Speaker 1: as she looks like through a window at her daughter
Speaker 1: in the hospital bed. And she's played by Kelly Overbee,
Speaker 1: who was familiar to me. She also played the mother
Speaker 1: in the episode Complicated, which is not Stranger. It's another
Speaker 1: episode where a missing girl shows up after years and
Speaker 1: it's not really her because in reality, the girl's brother
Speaker 1: killed her Jean Benet style, and the dad, who is
Speaker 1: from Nurse Jackie, helped cover it up. If that's helping
Speaker 1: jog your memory on that episode, So she's the mom
Speaker 1: in that episode, who's like so happy that her daughter's
Speaker 1: home even though it's not her. And then also recently
Speaker 1: she's been in more recent seasons playing a judge. She's
Speaker 1: Judge Christine Rayburne in episode Breakwater, which we just covered
Speaker 1: about the most powerful lifeguard in New York, and so
Speaker 1: that's where we've seen her before. So Benson is chatting
Speaker 1: with her about her daughter's like myriad injuries and one
Speaker 1: she thought was a basketball injury. But Benson's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what about the ribs? And the mom's like, wait, what
Speaker 1: someone's hurting my baby?
Speaker 3: And I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: We're bouncing back and forth to obviously a gender divided questioning.
Speaker 1: We're stablers talking to the dad and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: why didn't she tell us, and stablers like, you know, shame,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe she's scared of whoever's been hurting her.
Speaker 1: And the dad's like, well, her grades had slipped from
Speaker 1: a's to b's. We've been honored to drop a sport
Speaker 1: and clean up her act. And I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: imagine if my parents were just begging me to drop
Speaker 1: a sport to get my grades up. The dad's like,
Speaker 1: everything's fine at home. But I've been unemployed for a while,
Speaker 1: and this is very of the time. He was a
Speaker 1: senior VP at Leman and got fired before the bankruptcy
Speaker 1: for warning everybody that they were fucked. So I lived
Speaker 1: in the city at this time. I was friends with
Speaker 1: people who worked at like Lehman and bear Stearns, and
Speaker 1: it was like these banks went like tits up in nine.
Speaker 1: If you don't remember that, this is very specifically one
Speaker 1: of those banks that this guy worked for. And I
Speaker 1: loved that they're nodding to the current climate. So back
Speaker 1: to the mom and she's like, yeah, the dad's been
Speaker 1: angry because he can't find another job, but him and
Speaker 1: Kim are so close Daddy's little girl, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just want to burn that phrase like forever.
Speaker 3: I want it gone.
Speaker 2: I know, but did you see the daddy daughter dance
Speaker 2: that I posted? That was like the most incredible thing ever.
Speaker 2: And I go, this is the only daddy daughter dance
Speaker 2: I can get behind. Was it Russell Wilson and his daughter?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Who wasn't. No, it was not Russell Wilson. No, it wasn't.
Speaker 3: Okay not but it was an amazing performance.
Speaker 2: We'll have to post it it was just like it
Speaker 2: was more of a on a recital, so it was
Speaker 2: a performance, not a virginity based party, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he just like showed out and the girl was
Speaker 2: amazing and they were doing lifts and her form was
Speaker 2: so good and it was just like and they skipped
Speaker 2: off together at the end and it was really cute.
Speaker 3: They did a lift like dirty dancing style, right.
Speaker 2: There was lifts, there was lists, yeah, yeah, and they
Speaker 2: both just like killed it and it was really cute
Speaker 2: and fun. That's great to find one daddy daughter thing
Speaker 2: that I don't hate.
Speaker 3: Is pretty cool. A daddy daughter performance. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: There's a guy on TikTok I really love who does
Speaker 1: like gymnastics with his daughter and like he's always lifting
Speaker 1: her up because he's a gymnast, and like I love that.
Speaker 1: It's like the whole getting dressed up and like going
Speaker 1: on a date with your dad. I know some of
Speaker 1: you have written us and said you've done it and
Speaker 1: it was cute and sweet, and I want you to
Speaker 1: have that memory.
Speaker 3: It's just I don't like the vibe for me.
Speaker 2: As long as it is not based on your mind
Speaker 2: until your husband.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you give me your virginity. Yeah, this is about God.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I feel like a daddy daughter party is cool, right,
Speaker 2: not slow dancing or.
Speaker 1: Like go camping with your dad. Do something that's like useful.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like go survive in the wilderness for
Speaker 1: two days with your dad.
Speaker 3: I do not want to camp. I would rather go
Speaker 3: dance than camp.
Speaker 2: Caara, I was thinking about Rosie and Rosie would like
Speaker 2: to go camping with her dad, but Jared would be.
Speaker 3: So bad at it, and it just really got me laughing.
Speaker 1: But also just the phrase daddy's girl. I just don't
Speaker 1: like daddy's little girl, like you're I just don't like it.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I don't know. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I do always say my son is a mama's boy,
Speaker 1: so maybe I'm being a hypocrite. He is obsessed with me.
Speaker 1: But Rosie's not a daddy's girl. I wouldn't say she
Speaker 1: likes this sequally memore, but you know she likes her dad.
Speaker 3: No, don't worry.
Speaker 2: I've been in the Instagram comments fighting about just men
Speaker 2: feeling forgotten after their wives give birth, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'll kill you, I'll die. Oh my god, you won't
Speaker 2: be forgotten. If you did some work, why don't you
Speaker 2: get up and do something no one will forget you.
Speaker 2: Then did you see the British video will You Make
Speaker 2: a Roast? And she just had a baby two days ago.
Speaker 2: I was just hoping it wasn't real. I was just
Speaker 2: I had to hope it wasn't real. But of course
Speaker 2: I watched it. That is my wheelhouse. I really hope
Speaker 2: it's not real because it's so fucking great. And I
Speaker 2: loved like she was so funny, Like I just love
Speaker 2: the way she was standing up for herself. But she
Speaker 2: has to leave, like you have to leave the people,
Speaker 2: Like it's just insane. But I was in it with
Speaker 2: this guy and he's like, ugh, Mother's Day so many gifts.
Speaker 2: Father's Day is the least gifted holiday. And I go, yep,
Speaker 2: men don't spend time with their children or care or
Speaker 2: take care of them. I'm like this generation of men,
Speaker 2: I think is more. You know, the statistics say more
Speaker 2: than ever, Like you know, men change diapers now and
Speaker 2: shut up. But I'm like, yeah, do not take care
Speaker 2: of your kids, be at work all day, not give
Speaker 2: a shit, golf on the weekends, and then expect Father's
Speaker 2: Day to be a popen holiday.
Speaker 3: It's like so insane to me.
Speaker 2: And then to even discuss why Mother's Day is more
Speaker 2: important than Father's Day or like that they feel forgotten
Speaker 2: when women are straight up dying, giving birth, right, getting injured,
Speaker 2: but even postpartum, all of this stuff.
Speaker 3: I keep having a delete Instagram. I just the kids.
Speaker 1: The kids can feel who's carrying the mental load. Let's
Speaker 1: just say that they can feel it, or the.
Speaker 2: Caring or any of it. And of course they're going
Speaker 2: to do it. And if you are jealous of that,
Speaker 2: do more. Like it's just so wild. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're not the center of it. Yeah, and it's moved over.
Speaker 2: But the internet, the roast thing was that was wild,
Speaker 2: I know, but that's crazier than just I don't know,
Speaker 2: because I saw one video of a woman whatever it
Speaker 2: was about, shoveling snow.
Speaker 3: Narcissus. Don't change whenever read a book. Keep talking. Okay, crush,
Speaker 3: does this make you want an orange soda? Oh?
Speaker 2: I love orange crush and grape crush. Me too, well,
Speaker 2: I have ollipop, orange and grape in the fridge. You're
Speaker 2: a change person, Ollipop. If you're listening, we're sponsoring you already.
Speaker 2: Throw some money at us.
Speaker 3: Nine grams of fiber and a delicious drink. That's great.
Speaker 2: I should give it to my kids. Rosie doesn't get
Speaker 2: enough fiber. Nine grams of fucking fiber. They should give
Speaker 2: us money. Yeah, I mean we really love it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So liv is like the you know, talking to the
Speaker 1: mom about Kim being a dotty's girl. She's digging like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: maybe the dad takes it out on Kim because he's
Speaker 1: pissed and stressed out, cut to stable and doing the
Speaker 1: same shit. And he's pressing the dad and the dad's
Speaker 1: like shut up, and he's not having it, and Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 3: I hate my daughters too, dating guys.
Speaker 1: I don't like giving me lip talking back, and the
Speaker 1: guy keeps telling him stop it, but Stabler keeps going
Speaker 1: and pushing until the dad ends up pummeling a gennery
Speaker 1: vending machine that says refreshments on it, so it's a
Speaker 1: real outburst, and.
Speaker 3: Then he goes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's not who
Speaker 3: I am. And it's like, sir, like I don't know, no,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: If someone accused you of raping your child and you didn't,
Speaker 2: I bet you'd swing a punch.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, I mean, well he was accusing him of
Speaker 1: meeting her up, not not sexually assaulting her, but also
Speaker 1: wouldn't you swear?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just like punching a vending machine.
Speaker 5: Who is that?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't get I just don't. It's it's just not
Speaker 1: wired in my brain to hurt myself to get my
Speaker 1: anger out. No, I usually scream, yeah, yeah, I scream,
Speaker 1: or I walk away. I run away because I like
Speaker 1: get too mad. So the mom runs in when she
Speaker 1: hears the vending machine assault and like the guys swearing
Speaker 1: up and down, I didn't hurt Kimmy, And they're like,
Speaker 1: is there anyone She confides in, and sure enough, let
Speaker 1: us head boyfriend. His name is Steve Walker, and the
Speaker 1: parents stare pissed at the sound of his name, and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we just think they spend a little
Speaker 1: too much time together.
Speaker 3: So cuts to the pool. All right, I was wrong
Speaker 3: a swimmer. He's not.
Speaker 1: In my experienced swimmers have more close cropped haircuts because
Speaker 1: of the swim cap.
Speaker 3: No, you're wrong.
Speaker 2: They grow their hair long for resistance and then shave
Speaker 2: shave it right before I meet.
Speaker 3: Yes, got it.
Speaker 1: Sorry to stop you early, but you know, I am
Speaker 1: a pro got it swimming. Yeah, but it just that's
Speaker 1: not what I imagine immediately. I think it's because I
Speaker 1: imagine like Michael Phelps and like not like that crazy curls. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he's getting out of the pool talking to the cops
Speaker 1: like she's gonna be okay.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: They've been dating for about a year. They were really
Speaker 1: good friends. She tutored him in math, and then like
Speaker 1: you know, things just happened. And he's like, her parents
Speaker 1: hate our relationship, which sucks because we always have to
Speaker 1: go back to my place to bone. And it's like,
Speaker 1: why does it matter where you bone if you're getting it.
Speaker 1: You're getting sex at the age of fifteen or sixteen,
Speaker 1: like whatever, stop talking about where you're doing it. He's like,
Speaker 1: I wanted to do it over the weekend, but she
Speaker 1: said she couldn't because she had some wedding to go to.
Speaker 1: And he starts to pick up like on what the
Speaker 1: cops are in sin waiting because they're asking all these
Speaker 1: questions that.
Speaker 3: Like you think I hit her.
Speaker 1: It's like yes, sir, and they're like, well somebody did,
Speaker 1: and he's like, no way, not me, and he did
Speaker 1: notice a couple months ago she didn't want to mess
Speaker 1: around because her shoulder was fucked up, and he noticed
Speaker 1: bruises on her ribs and she told him it was
Speaker 1: from her boxing class. But no one's supposed to know
Speaker 1: about that. So now we cut to a one of
Speaker 1: the most classic Law and Order guest star moves. I
Speaker 1: can see is just a boxing instructor who will not
Speaker 1: stop hitting a punching bag for even a second to
Speaker 1: have a conversation with the cops. Like she's just pummeling
Speaker 1: a bag, acting like the cops are just you know,
Speaker 1: like breaking her focus. So she's like, oh, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: got a class of teen girls. Kim is the best one.
Speaker 1: She never misses a class. And they tell her that
Speaker 1: Kim's hurt, and she's like, I got one guess for you.
Speaker 1: A dirt bag named Rick Edwards, And I'm like, did
Speaker 1: he run for president? Know?
Speaker 3: That was John Edwards.
Speaker 1: He hits on Kim a lot, and then he fucks
Speaker 1: with her workouts when she rejects him, like trips her
Speaker 1: up on the jump rope or whatever. And he was
Speaker 1: just bothering her recently when she was at the gym
Speaker 1: and They're like, where can we find him?
Speaker 3: Good news, he's right there at the gym.
Speaker 1: So she calls up to the guy in the boxing
Speaker 1: ring and goes, hey, Edwards, get your ass down here,
Speaker 1: and he goes, what you want, bitch, So he's a prince.
Speaker 1: Stabler flashes his badge on the guy. Edwards does not
Speaker 1: give a shit, so he just keeps boxing. Elliott gets
Speaker 1: in the ring with Elliott has what my dad used
Speaker 1: to call a shit eating grin. It's like my dad
Speaker 1: used always be like, wait, that shit eating grin off
Speaker 1: your face, and I'd be like, why would eating shit
Speaker 1: make me grin?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: But it is just like this the cocky elliot grin
Speaker 1: where he's about to, you know, teach this kid a lesson.
Speaker 1: And the guy tries to step to Stabler and stab
Speaker 1: knees him right in the dick and then cuffs him
Speaker 1: for assaulting a police officer, so he cuts the precinct.
Speaker 1: Stabler is like bringing in the prince of men for
Speaker 1: trespassing and assaulting a cop.
Speaker 3: He's like, I never hurt Kim. I was just trying
Speaker 3: to talk to her.
Speaker 1: They go to throw him in a holding cell with
Speaker 1: a very large bald man child rapist named Little Pete
Speaker 1: and suddenly Ricky is singing like a bird.
Speaker 3: He's like, you can't leave me in here with him,
Speaker 3: and so he's not so tough.
Speaker 1: Anymore without his bucks and gloves on, and he says
Speaker 1: he waited outside the gym for her. She wouldn't give
Speaker 1: him the time of day. He wanted to throttle her,
Speaker 1: but he didn't like lock this guy up forever like
Speaker 1: this is. It's only a matter of time, you know,
Speaker 1: before he fucking kills a woman. And also let's keep
Speaker 1: in mind that this is a fifteen year old girl,
Speaker 1: Like Rick Edwards looks like an adult to me, and
Speaker 1: he's like pissed at a fifteen year old girl won't
Speaker 1: chat with him and maybe go out with him. And
Speaker 1: Finn tells Stabler if they really want to torture this
Speaker 1: Rick Edwards kid, make him talk to the talk too
Speaker 1: much tech and we pan around and bing bang bong,
Speaker 1: it's fucking Stucky. Okay, it's Noel Fisher, the guy we
Speaker 1: love to hate Dale Stucky, and he's talking to Daddy Craigan.
Speaker 1: This is like his second episode or something. And Stabler
Speaker 1: goes to try to save the Captain from Stucky, who goes, hey,
Speaker 1: the elster, how's it hanging? Like he's just so bad,
Speaker 1: and Stabler does not have time for the Stucky bullshit,
Speaker 1: and he's like what you got And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: I have some info we pulled from Kim's locker, but
Speaker 1: he must have her phone. But he never says it
Speaker 1: explicitly because he drops a bond that the victim has
Speaker 1: been sexting, and like that's supposed to be a big
Speaker 1: dune done moment, Like that means that everything that's happened
Speaker 1: to her is okay because she's been committing the crime
Speaker 1: of sexting. And Elliott goes sexting and STUCKI explains what
Speaker 1: it is because I guess it's two thousand and nine
Speaker 1: and he doesn't know, and it's that Kim's been sending
Speaker 1: nude pictures of herself from her phone.
Speaker 3: And then he goes into how this underage teen is
Speaker 3: smoking hot. That's what Stucky starts talking.
Speaker 1: About, and like, I know he's an idiot, but like
Speaker 1: you do remember that you went to a high school
Speaker 1: and Jimmy'd open a locker to get the cell phone, right,
Speaker 1: Like you remember that it's a kid pretty much no
Speaker 1: matter what. And so Elliot's like, give me the phone,
Speaker 1: and there's a pick of Kim lying on a bed
Speaker 1: like on her stomach, like, you know, hands head in
Speaker 1: your hands, in a completely covered up pose, like it
Speaker 1: honestly looks like a resort brochure, Like it looks like
Speaker 1: the beds are comfy at this Kimpton, you know. But
Speaker 1: the text underneath says I love you, and Sucky does
Speaker 1: say that there are tons more full frontal close ups.
Speaker 1: Judging by the amount of hate mail she got, he's
Speaker 1: guessing someone viral those to her whole school. I have
Speaker 1: not heard the term viral used as a verb, but
Speaker 1: they're using it in this episode big time. Stabler swipes
Speaker 1: and sees another text with the same resort photo that
Speaker 1: says You're gonna die?
Speaker 3: So who sent that?
Speaker 1: Stucky checks and like the information on the text and
Speaker 1: it says that it came from Kim's own phone, and Kragan's.
Speaker 3: Like, why would she send a death threat to herself?
Speaker 3: Dun dun? Act two.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now we're talking to a CSU tech that
Speaker 1: we actually love and respect O'Halleran, and he's telling them
Speaker 1: I don't think Kim sent this text message and Stucky
Speaker 1: then starts to tell them about spoofing, and it is
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, so he does have to explain
Speaker 1: that to Stabler, where you know spoofing is like he
Speaker 1: basically kicks o'haleran out of his seat and asks Stabler
Speaker 1: to write down his digits, and Stabler goes, you sex me,
Speaker 1: Stucky your toast, which they're having fun. So they go
Speaker 1: to this website called phone fake fonyfake dot com and
Speaker 1: it's a site that lets you send messages and make
Speaker 1: it look like it came from any number that you want,
Speaker 1: and so bing bang bong, Elliott gets a buzz and
Speaker 1: it looks like he just texted himself. So phone fake
Speaker 1: lets you change your voice, record conversations, send these anonymous texts,
Speaker 1: So how can they figure out who really sent it?
Speaker 1: And it's tough because there's like at least a dozen
Speaker 1: of these phone fake type of sites online and they're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to get.
Speaker 3: A subpoena for all of them.
Speaker 1: So Ohalarin's like, yes, just Stucky wasting our time again,
Speaker 1: Like this is not leading anywhere, so let's get back
Speaker 1: to work, and he shows them how he's been tracing
Speaker 1: the image to who she originally sent it to. Steve
Speaker 1: Walker is on her phone bill, but she first texted
Speaker 1: them to Ethan Morse. His cell tracks to an address
Speaker 1: in Little Neck and Elliott is rushing off to Queen's
Speaker 1: when Stucky's like, actually, he's in Manhattan.
Speaker 3: It just hit me. That's where all the clams come from. Cute.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a Little neckclam. Wow. Local.
Speaker 1: So Elliott he's like, all right, off to Queen's where
Speaker 1: I know the name of every single private school and
Speaker 1: Catholic school.
Speaker 3: And then Stucky's like, wait a minute, he's in Manhattan.
Speaker 3: I just googled him.
Speaker 1: He goes to Grandview Prep, which is the school from
Speaker 1: the episode. They don't really clarify that, but it is
Speaker 1: the school where the other kids have gone. And Ethan
Speaker 1: got great reviews for his performance in Oklahoma last fall.
Speaker 3: He's the star of their theater program.
Speaker 1: Wow, Stucky amazing at Google found all that stuff very quickly.
Speaker 1: So now we're at the Grand View Prep auditorium and
Speaker 1: the young guy in a full gangster outfit Fedora comes
Speaker 1: up that balcony like you guys wanted to see me,
Speaker 1: And then it's like, you guys wanted to see me?
Speaker 1: A like, and he goes, let me guess you're from
Speaker 1: William Morris here to give me my big break, and
Speaker 1: Finn goes, we're not that kind of agent. A little
Speaker 1: Hollywood haha in there for you. And I put this
Speaker 1: in later because I do not realize it now, but
Speaker 1: I realize it later in the episode that this is
Speaker 1: Ezra Miller.
Speaker 3: This is the actor.
Speaker 1: I didn't like put that together until when I saw
Speaker 1: them later in the courtroom that that's who I was watching.
Speaker 2: I know Ezra, which is a fun name from Perks
Speaker 2: of Being a Wallflower.
Speaker 3: Oh that's right. Yeah, I've never seen that and in
Speaker 3: train Wreck, right, yeah, train Wreck.
Speaker 1: But it is pretty wild that they were in this
Speaker 1: episode fifteen years ago and now they have all these allegations,
Speaker 1: you know, of abuse. So we'll leave you guys to
Speaker 1: it to research that we're going to kind of focus
Speaker 1: on the episode. So they start asking about Kim and
Speaker 1: he's like, we're friends. And so then they ask about
Speaker 1: the nudes and he's like, everyone got those. She meant
Speaker 1: to send them to her boyfriend Steve, and he's like, look, fellas,
Speaker 1: Like he's basically has a good cigar in his hand.
Speaker 1: He's dressed fully like an al Capone cartoon, and he's like, fellas,
Speaker 1: I wish Kim wanted me that way, but I'm a
Speaker 1: drama geek and hawk girls don't go for that. And
Speaker 1: then someone calls places and he's like.
Speaker 3: I got a run.
Speaker 1: So he said he last saw her after first bell
Speaker 1: on Monday. So now back at the precinct, Finn's telling
Speaker 1: Stabler that Ethan isn't being totally truthful.
Speaker 3: And by the way, just to go back Monday, I
Speaker 3: believe is the day of the fall.
Speaker 1: So back at the precinct, Finn's telling Stabler that Ethan's
Speaker 1: not being totally truthful. Kim was actually in his part
Speaker 1: of town Friday night. Tarru checked her cell bum bah
Speaker 1: bah bah, so why was what was she out there
Speaker 1: eating clams?
Speaker 3: What was she doing in little Neck?
Speaker 1: So she was hanging out with Ethan while sexting dirty
Speaker 1: pictures to Spido's Steve.
Speaker 3: Plus, Ethan has.
Speaker 1: A record, it turns out, at least at school where
Speaker 1: he's been suspended twice for starting fights and he kicked
Speaker 1: a student in the head, So the plot thickens.
Speaker 3: Finn got all this info.
Speaker 1: From a buddy who happens to be the head of
Speaker 1: security for grand View Prep. I love Finn's connections and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, he slipped me Ethan's file on the
Speaker 1: DL and then in walks Samantha Copeland and she goes, well,
Speaker 1: slip them back. And this is an actress named Melinda
Speaker 1: McGraw and she was a regular on the COMMISSH and
Speaker 1: she's working. This woman works, so I don't really know
Speaker 1: other stuff that she's from, but the COMMISSI was, you know,
Speaker 1: something in my conness when I was younger, and she's
Speaker 1: a ballbuster from the jump. She's like, if you got
Speaker 1: those without a subpoena, then for me, they don't exist.
Speaker 1: And she is with Corporation Council. They work on juvenile
Speaker 1: prosecutions in New York. And you may recall our girly
Speaker 1: Pippacox was a Corporation Council attorney and uh, she comes
Speaker 1: in hot, like got any evidence I can actually use?
Speaker 1: She's very much the Paula Patten character, like all these
Speaker 1: people that come in and are just like, hello, idiots,
Speaker 1: where's the case?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: And Stabler's like everything points to Ethan.
Speaker 2: Like even if it was any job, like I'm just
Speaker 2: trying to take this prosecutor cop relationship out and that's
Speaker 2: not how you act when you start.
Speaker 3: A job anywhere.
Speaker 2: I know, Like, it's just so wild to just show
Speaker 2: up to a restaurant gig and be like what are
Speaker 2: the specials?
Speaker 3: Like say, hello, who are you? Yeah? Anything here? Any
Speaker 3: I can actually serve to people?
Speaker 1: Any of this food edible? So Stabler says, everything points
Speaker 1: to Ethan, and I'm like.
Speaker 3: How like a text message? Like not everything points to Ethan.
Speaker 1: She was definitely assaulted on Friday, and on Friday she
Speaker 1: was in Little Neck, So they think his motive is
Speaker 1: that he had a crush on her. Drink for the
Speaker 1: name of the episode, and they think that she sent
Speaker 1: him these pictures and then he's pumped and invites her
Speaker 1: over to score, but then she tells him, oops, it
Speaker 1: was a mistake. They were meant for speedo Steve and
Speaker 1: Ethan flips out and beats the shit out of her.
Speaker 1: It's a good theory, I wouldn't say all arrows point
Speaker 1: to it, like it's undeniable. But when Live pipes in
Speaker 1: and it's been a while since we've heard from her,
Speaker 1: she says, what if she was dating Ethan behind Steve's back?
Speaker 1: We have a video of her buying her train ticket,
Speaker 1: and then who buys a ticket for the same train
Speaker 1: to Little Neck three minutes later at a different window,
Speaker 1: Speedo Steve. They've got him on camera, so maybe Steve
Speaker 1: followed her and then beat her up or Ethan could
Speaker 1: have done it. Sam wants them both in there to
Speaker 1: clear things up, like right now. So in interrogation, we've
Speaker 1: got Speedo Steve with his dad and is like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: she asked me to go with her to protect her.
Speaker 1: She was afraid of what Ethan would do when Kim
Speaker 1: told him that she just wanted to be friends. And
Speaker 1: so now Ethan's an interrogation as well, and he's claiming,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Like, I've never hurt Kim,
Speaker 1: like and they're so they're both claiming innocence. So Spido
Speaker 1: Steve's in there with his douchey dad who's like, my
Speaker 1: son wouldn't hurt a fly, but like this Fedora loving
Speaker 1: theater kid, he's a violent asshole and like when he's
Speaker 1: not singing Storry with a fringe on top, I guess.
Speaker 3: So that's like what everybody's trying to make happen.
Speaker 1: And uh, Steve's like Why does it look like you're
Speaker 1: stalking her, like you're not buying tickets together, and he's like,
Speaker 1: it's her idea. It was in case somehow Ethan saw
Speaker 1: us on the train to like be separate. Okay, that
Speaker 1: feels a little bit too Agatha Christie.
Speaker 3: But go off, king uh.
Speaker 1: Stabler shows him the sex and is like, did you
Speaker 1: send this death threat? And Ethan's like, I did not
Speaker 1: send the death threat. I was bummed. I wasn't homicidal
Speaker 1: that she didn't want to hook up with me. They're like,
Speaker 1: you spoof the number, and he goes spoofing?
Speaker 3: What what are you guys?
Speaker 1: Even I'm talking about even this kid does not know
Speaker 1: what fucking spoofing is. And Finn is like, really going
Speaker 1: after this theater kid like he's laying into him, like
Speaker 1: just beating up girls make you feel like a big man.
Speaker 1: And finally Ethan's mother is like enough, no more talking
Speaker 1: without a lawyer. Back to Steve and the dad is
Speaker 1: basically doing the same thing. He's like, I know my rights,
Speaker 1: I know what's up. We're out of here unless you
Speaker 1: charge my son. And then Corporation Council, well, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: call her Sam because that's kind of what they call her.
Speaker 1: The rest of the episode, Sam is like, cut them loose,
Speaker 1: So of course they cut them loose at the exact
Speaker 1: same moment, which leads Ethan to bum rush Steve in
Speaker 1: the precinct, you know, holding area or like the bullpen,
Speaker 1: basically screaming what did you do to Kim? So then
Speaker 1: they break them up and Live shows up with the
Speaker 1: news that done done. Kim is awake, so they have
Speaker 1: scored these two hot heads out of the building and
Speaker 1: then they got a head to Kim to clear this
Speaker 1: all up. So at the hospital, Kim is back on
Speaker 1: her lying game. She's like, I was sprinting in the
Speaker 1: park and I tripped on a rock and hurt my head.
Speaker 1: And it's like, girl, Like, that's just like not consistent.
Speaker 1: Her parents are like, tell the truth, and she's like
Speaker 1: I am. She's very like she's very kind of like
Speaker 1: monotone and detached. She's like, I am telling the truth.
Speaker 1: And Sam is like, I'll protect you. We'll get a
Speaker 1: restraining order and she's like, I don't need one. It
Speaker 1: was an accident. They're like, what about your shoulder, what
Speaker 1: about your ribs? She's like, yep, accidents and Olivia's like,
Speaker 1: caught the crap. We know you were in Ethan's neighborhood
Speaker 1: Friday night and you sent both of those boys nude pictures.
Speaker 1: And her parents decide that this would be a great
Speaker 1: time to lecture her about the last part and how
Speaker 1: the internet is forever and don't send nudes. Benson and
Speaker 1: Sam tried to tell Kim like, he's not gonna stop.
Speaker 1: It's not love and one day he's gonna go too far.
Speaker 1: And then she tells the parents, you know you're gonna
Speaker 1: be saying goodbye to your daughter on a slab at
Speaker 1: the City Morgue, and that's what Sam says, and Lives like, okay,
Speaker 1: we have to have our We don't talk to victims
Speaker 1: like that chat with this woman. So she like pulls
Speaker 1: her aside and is like, this is a victim, Like
Speaker 1: we cannot scream at her like that, and Sam is like, well,
Speaker 1: arrest her for kittie porn her words, by by the way,
Speaker 1: we do not use that term on this podcast, child
Speaker 1: sex abuse images essentially, as they're saying she created, and
Speaker 1: she's like a couple days in jail, we'll get her talking,
Speaker 1: and Live is like, what are you kidding? And Sam's like, well,
Speaker 1: she broke the law and you know you better do it.
Speaker 1: So she's not kidding, and she tells liv arrest her
Speaker 1: or I'll find someone who will.
Speaker 2: This is someone who lost their way. It's not about
Speaker 2: the victims, now, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Like, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: What are you doing? Yeah? Playing your little legal games
Speaker 3: for what?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah totally.
Speaker 1: So yeah, She's like, you do it, or I'll find
Speaker 1: someone who will, and I'll report your ass to IAB.
Speaker 1: So Damn Live goes in and, against her better judgment,
Speaker 1: cuffs Kim to her hospital bed.
Speaker 3: Kim is crying and is like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: I thought you wanted to help me, and Live is
Speaker 1: just like reading or her rights like a robot and
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's the fade to commerci. So at
Speaker 1: the top of act three, we meet who is representing Kim,
Speaker 1: and it is defense attorney Miranda Pond and she is
Speaker 1: played by Alex Kingston and who I was really obsessed
Speaker 1: with in my youth because she was on Er. She
Speaker 1: had like a cool long arc on Er that I
Speaker 1: was really into this actress, so I thought she was
Speaker 1: like British and sophisticated, and we first met Miranda in
Speaker 1: the episode Transitions, and she also appears in season eleven
Speaker 1: the episode Want to Be in season twelve episode Trophy,
Speaker 1: so she's in four episodes and I like her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love her.
Speaker 1: She's also been in a lot of British stuff, like
Speaker 1: I think she's been in Doctor Who, and she was
Speaker 1: married to Ray Fines sexy and he had a affair
Speaker 1: with a co star and that's what ended their relationship,
Speaker 1: but they were together. Yeah, they were together for ten years.
Speaker 1: So she talked, I guess openly about how she was very,
Speaker 1: very at her lowest point after that happened. Anyway, she
Speaker 1: calls Sam Samantha and tells her that she's really gross
Speaker 1: for coming after Kim like this, and she's like, you're
Speaker 1: blackmailing her to reveal her abuser and Sam is like, yeah, basically,
Speaker 1: I don't want her to end up dead, and Liv
Speaker 1: tries to beg Kim, but she's staring straight ahead, like
Speaker 1: you know, detached, and she won't budge and Sam goes cool,
Speaker 1: we'll see you at trial. So now we are in
Speaker 1: the chambers of Judge Hilda Marsden and this is the
Speaker 1: one and only Swoosie Kurtz. I've always called her Swoozy,
Speaker 1: but I found out through researching for this episode that
Speaker 1: she's named after a B seventeen d flying Fortress bomber
Speaker 1: that her father flew in World War Two that was
Speaker 1: nicknamed the Swouze, which is half swan and half goose.
Speaker 3: So her name rhymes with Lucy, not Woozy.
Speaker 1: But she is a huge person in my family because
Speaker 1: she's on the show's Sisters, which I've talked about many times.
Speaker 3: There's a judge.
Speaker 1: Patricia Callimber plays a judge, and she was on Sisters
Speaker 1: as well. Cela Ward was also on Sisters, and Swusy
Speaker 1: Kurtz played Alex, and I've just loved her since then.
Speaker 1: She's one I think Tony's and Emmy's. I mean, she's
Speaker 1: a very accomplished actor.
Speaker 2: And just her red hair is iconic and this episode,
Speaker 2: yeah she has like iconic red hair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we'll get to know her more.
Speaker 2: But I obviously have a full fan fiction of her
Speaker 2: and Judge Oliver Tait and they are together, they're out
Speaker 2: of prison and they're getting their life back while being sparred.
Speaker 2: You know, That's why I'm so shocked that you don't
Speaker 2: have such a like strong picture of this episode in
Speaker 2: your brain, because she, to me is just so like
Speaker 2: good in that I don't know, I'm just obsessed with her.
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with her.
Speaker 1: Maybe I just wasn't willing to allow her to be
Speaker 1: what she ultimately turns out to be because I love
Speaker 1: her so much from sisters and is like a good
Speaker 1: guy character, you know. Like but in my family, we
Speaker 1: used to like anytime we saw her, we would always
Speaker 1: go swuz.
Speaker 3: Like we just always would say swooze all the time.
Speaker 1: And so like, if I was to call my sister
Speaker 1: right now and be like, who was alex on sister,
Speaker 1: she'd be like, oh, swooz, Like that's like always what
Speaker 1: we called her. So loving her as a guest star
Speaker 1: in this episode, and she's like, well, I can't define
Speaker 1: child pornography, but I know it when I see it,
Speaker 1: and this sure looks like kittie porn, Miss Pond, and
Speaker 1: Pond and Samantha go back and forth about how oh
Speaker 1: Kim distributed porn and then no, the law is to
Speaker 1: protect children and she is part of the protected class.
Speaker 1: Sam argues, like, eventually this will end up in the
Speaker 1: hand of pedophiles. And I love how the blame would
Speaker 1: not be then on the pedophiles for obtaining and disseminating images,
Speaker 1: but just the kid who took them, like a fifteen
Speaker 1: year old who took them, is that fault more than
Speaker 1: like a pedophile who's finding them somewhere dark on the internet. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Swuz interrupts them and she asks Olivia her opinion. She's like,
Speaker 1: do you think this teen distributed and produced, you know,
Speaker 1: childhood sex abuse images? And Olivia is like, by the
Speaker 1: letter of the law, yes, but I don't believe that
Speaker 1: was her intent, and so Pond moves to dismiss, but
Speaker 1: Hilda Marsden has other plans. She is tired of slutty
Speaker 1: teens posting their hot bods all over the Internet with
Speaker 1: no regard for the implications. She says, it's an epidemic
Speaker 1: and we need to send a message. And it's like,
Speaker 1: uh oh, I smell someone wanting to make an example
Speaker 1: out of poor Kim, and Marsden wants to proceed to trial.
Speaker 1: So this is kind of shocking, and outside, Pond is
Speaker 1: chasing down Benson, and Benson's acting very bluse. She's like,
Speaker 1: it's out of my hands, babe, Like what can I do?
Speaker 1: And then Pond is like, you don't agree with this.
Speaker 3: I know you don't.
Speaker 1: And then Benson gets a phone call and uh oh,
Speaker 1: it is not good news, and she's like, Pond, hop
Speaker 1: in my ford tourists, we need to take a ride.
Speaker 1: So in the hospital it's the same doctor as before.
Speaker 1: He's briskly walking and talking with Benson and Pond telling
Speaker 1: them about compound fractures because Kim has been attacked again.
Speaker 1: Pond says that kids dating is supposed to be fun.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be about prom dress colors, not visits
Speaker 1: to the er. And the doctor's like, I actually see
Speaker 1: it way too often. One in ten teens is physically
Speaker 1: abused by a partner. That was in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: I have to feel like the number is higher than that.
Speaker 3: That does.
Speaker 1: That seems like low to me. But Kim is still
Speaker 1: lying about what happened. When they walk in, she immediately
Speaker 1: goes it was an accident, and she has a truly
Speaker 1: horrific black eye, like a real not like a ooh see,
Speaker 1: I bumped into.
Speaker 3: A Heather Gay black eye. Yes, a Heather Gay full
Speaker 3: black eye.
Speaker 1: And the parents are begging her to tell the truth,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I fell off my skateboard and it's
Speaker 1: like this girl's playing sports trying to pull straight a's
Speaker 1: but her glades are slipping, and then she's like taking
Speaker 1: time to board on the side.
Speaker 3: I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: So she doesn't trust Olivia because she arrested her, which
Speaker 1: is fair, and she just wants them all to leave
Speaker 1: her alone. But it's like, Babe, you know Olivia Benson
Speaker 1: can't do that. So Kim screams, get out. I want
Speaker 1: her out of here. Benson hit the bricks and so
Speaker 1: Benson takes off at the precinct. Kragan is on Live
Speaker 1: for sandbagging the prosecutor, like, why did you say in
Speaker 1: Marsden's chambers that you don't think that Kim intended to
Speaker 1: distribute this, you know, these sex abuse images and lives
Speaker 1: like it doesn't matter what I said, Sam got what
Speaker 1: she wanted. And Craigan goes, that doesn't give you license
Speaker 1: to defect to the defense and lives like we're supposed
Speaker 1: to protect the victims here, but Craigan is on his
Speaker 1: black and white bull shit with she broke the law.
Speaker 1: It's like how it's this is how Finn used to
Speaker 1: be at the beginning, like there's a law that's been broken,
Speaker 1: and that is all I care about, and now you
Speaker 1: know they can I think all of them as although
Speaker 1: this is season ten, I don't know why Craigan's being
Speaker 1: like this. I thought he had a little bit more nuance.
Speaker 3: No, they fucking do this.
Speaker 2: Once in a while, they'll just like, for some reason,
Speaker 2: one of the characters will act wildly opposite of anything
Speaker 2: they've ever stood for in their whole life. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, They'll just like out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: flip flop where they're like, there's no evidence, but lock
Speaker 2: them up and you're like yeah.
Speaker 1: Or Benson'll be like I just don't believe this little
Speaker 1: girl no way. Like so, Liv argues, how is a
Speaker 1: team sending pictures to two boys her own age considered
Speaker 1: kitty porn? And Craigan admits the law hasn't caught up
Speaker 1: with the tech and lives like, well, we're criminalizing private behavior.
Speaker 1: Craigan's like, it's not private when it's sexting college admissions officers,
Speaker 1: future employers, their own kids might see these pictures one day. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't really get why that's as to do with
Speaker 1: the law, Like, why is that part of the law, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you don't get into the college you want to
Speaker 1: go to because you went viral with the nude pic.
Speaker 1: But like that, I don't know, that's not a law break.
Speaker 1: But you know, he's almost like he's on the judge's side.
Speaker 1: He's like, they need to see the consequences of their
Speaker 1: actions these kids. So it sounds like a bunch of
Speaker 1: like boomers being like, these little sluts need to stop
Speaker 1: putting their pictures online and lives like, Okay, it's a mistake,
Speaker 1: but jail the sex offender Registry and Craigan's like, it's
Speaker 1: not up to you, it's up to the judge, and
Speaker 1: uh oh, we don't like that because judge is not great,
Speaker 1: it seems. Now we're in court and Pond is cross
Speaker 1: examining Kim and feels like, how did it feel knowing
Speaker 1: that your whole school saw you naked? And she was like,
Speaker 1: I felt ashamed. I felt everybody pointing and whispering. And
Speaker 1: she's like, did you text those pictures to anyone other
Speaker 1: than Steve and Ethan? And she says no, and I
Speaker 1: didn't even mean to send them to Ethan. And then
Speaker 1: she says, and you didn't mean for those boys to
Speaker 1: then send them to the whole student body, and it's like,
Speaker 1: why are the boys not on trial? Like they disseminated this,
Speaker 1: like you can easily go into one of their phones
Speaker 1: and find out that they texted the photos to everybody?
Speaker 3: Why are the boys not on trial? Not getting it?
Speaker 1: So, now it's Sam's turn, and she's like, so you
Speaker 1: sent the picks to the boys and then one of
Speaker 1: them viral the picks to get back at you, and
Speaker 1: they are really trying to make Virald happen on this episode,
Speaker 1: and Pond objects it's sustained and they're like, well.
Speaker 3: She goes, well, do you think one of them sent
Speaker 3: you the death threat? And Kim's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Sam's like, well maybe it was the same person who
Speaker 1: beat the shit out of you yesterday. And Pond tries
Speaker 1: to object, but Sam lays it all out and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: I think this witness was physically assaulted to intimidate or
Speaker 1: influence her testimony, and Judge Marsden looked shocked. She's like,
Speaker 1: young lady, is this true. Kim's like, I had an
Speaker 1: accident with her, you know. Signature monotone and the judge
Speaker 1: reminds her she's under oath. She asked her again, did
Speaker 1: someone assault you to get you to alter your testimony?
Speaker 1: She says, please, don't make me tell you. And then
Speaker 1: the judge says, one more chance, name your assailant or
Speaker 1: I'm holding you in contempt, and Kim goes, I can't,
Speaker 1: and so you better believe this judge was not bluffing.
Speaker 3: And they send this poor.
Speaker 1: Teen who it has still a gleaming black eye and
Speaker 1: her arm in a sling to court lock up. So
Speaker 1: Sam says, well, at least she'll be safe tonight, and
Speaker 1: then Pond tells liv this might be the only way,
Speaker 1: like she won't listen to anyone, and Benson's like, light
Speaker 1: bulb moment, I have someone that I might think might
Speaker 1: be able to get through to her, so he cut
Speaker 1: to the lock up. Pond and Benson enter with who
Speaker 1: else but friend of the Pod Alison Psycho aka Kathleen Stabler. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: as a reminder, we are in season ten and episode
Speaker 1: three of this season is the episode Swing where Kathleen
Speaker 1: is arrested and her struggles with bipolar come to light.
Speaker 1: And so she's now has been you know, gone through
Speaker 1: some treatment and is, you know, hopefully working on her recovery.
Speaker 1: And she introduces herself as a friend of Olivia and
Speaker 1: admits Olivia also put her in jail and my dad's
Speaker 1: detective Stabler And Kim's like, how could you do that?
Speaker 1: How could you do that to your partner's kid. And
Speaker 1: Kathleen's like, I'm glad she did. It helped me to
Speaker 1: stop hating myself. And Kim's like, why do you think
Speaker 1: I hate myself? And Kathleen's like, I was just like you.
Speaker 1: I let boys use me, have sex with me, hit me.
Speaker 1: I don't think we knew this about Kathleen before she's
Speaker 1: confessing it here. We knew she was kind of on
Speaker 1: a wild streak or whatever of criminal behavior, I guess,
Speaker 1: but we didn't know that she was in these abusive relationships.
Speaker 1: I don't think until this moment she said, I was
Speaker 1: too scared and ashamed to say anything. I went to jail,
Speaker 1: but I let someone help me, and that same person
Speaker 1: is trying to help you. Kim is cracking. She's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. I love him, I
Speaker 1: can't betray him, and Kathleen says, he's betraying you by
Speaker 1: hitting you every time, he says he's sorry, he'll never
Speaker 1: do it again, but he does. He makes you feel
Speaker 1: like you're nothing and that he's the only one in
Speaker 1: the world who will ever love you. And then he
Speaker 1: hits you and says you deserve it, and so Kim
Speaker 1: starts to open up. She's like, the first time it happened,
Speaker 1: I spilled punch on him at a party and he
Speaker 1: slapped me in the face. Then after school he saw
Speaker 1: me talking to another boy, and then it was just
Speaker 1: for no reason at all. It's really sad to hear
Speaker 1: her tell this story. And someone who really loves you
Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt you. Kathleen tells her they'd treat you with respect,
Speaker 1: and she's like, Ethan's always doing nice things for me.
Speaker 1: We text all the time, but I did send him
Speaker 1: those pictures by mistake, Like she's blaming herself for taking
Speaker 1: the pictures in the first place.
Speaker 3: But then she tells the whole story.
Speaker 1: She's like, Okay, Friday, at school, I noticed my phone
Speaker 1: was missing when I went to go make a call,
Speaker 1: and it was Steve who stole it because he's always
Speaker 1: checking up on me. He found the picks to Ethan
Speaker 1: and he thought I was cheating on him, so he
Speaker 1: sent them to everyone in the school and spoofed my
Speaker 1: number so that no one would know it was him.
Speaker 1: And then he said if he saw her ever talking
Speaker 1: to Ethan again, he'd kill her. And so as she's
Speaker 1: telling the story, we've moved to voiceover and we're watching Speedo.
Speaker 1: Steve get cuffed at school in front of everyone. She
Speaker 1: told Steve that she sent the pictures to Ethan by accident,
Speaker 1: but he didn't believe her, and he just kept hitting
Speaker 1: her more. She took the train to Little Neck that
Speaker 1: night to talk to Ethan and explain what happened, but
Speaker 1: she didn't know Steve was following her. He jumped her.
Speaker 1: She begged him to stop, and he wouldn't. He kicked
Speaker 1: her in the head and she passed out. So Steve
Speaker 1: is a bit too easy of a liar for me,
Speaker 1: Like this kid's a psychopath, because he just was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, like that was Kim's whole plan, like to
Speaker 1: buy our tickets separate. Like he just had a lie
Speaker 1: for every single thing that the police asked him. So
Speaker 1: now we're in court and Kim is explaining that she
Speaker 1: never dated Ethan, but when he got the picks. He
Speaker 1: thought that she was interested, and so they asked, did
Speaker 1: Steve also attack you the day before court? And she
Speaker 1: says yes, so that I wouldn't testify to the abuse.
Speaker 1: Pond rests and moves for a dismissal. Sam has no
Speaker 1: objections because now she's named her abuser. She's done what
Speaker 1: you asked, and we're going to go after this kid,
Speaker 1: and like we can drop this bullshit charge.
Speaker 3: But done done. Judge Marsden denies the motion.
Speaker 1: We had a moment like this in the Tom Scarett
Speaker 1: episode Poison, which is Oliver Tait, the judge that Leasa
Speaker 1: mentioned before, who just sort of, you know, overrules a
Speaker 1: jury or like overrules you know, emotion that is perfectly
Speaker 1: acceptable for everyone else, and everyone looks gagged. They're like what,
Speaker 1: and the judge goes, the respondent will rise for my decision,
Speaker 1: and Pond is like, your decision. We haven't had closing arguments,
Speaker 1: and the judge is like, we're not required to hear
Speaker 1: closing arguments. Stand up, young lady, and she has an
Speaker 1: evil face on, like she's killing it.
Speaker 3: In this role.
Speaker 1: She finds Kim guilty of producing, possessing, and distributing a
Speaker 1: sexual performance by a child. Her sentence is incarceration in
Speaker 1: a juvenile sex offender facility in Ohio for one year.
Speaker 1: This is wild. She's a first time offender. It's a
Speaker 1: nonviolent offense. This is insane. So Kim yells at Olivia
Speaker 1: on the way out, like I listened to you and
Speaker 1: you lied to me. And then the camera stops just
Speaker 1: on Judge Marsden's evil smirk before it fades to black.
Speaker 1: So top of Act four, Sam is walking and talking
Speaker 1: with Pond and Benson.
Speaker 3: She's shocked.
Speaker 1: She's like, I thought she'd get probation at worst, and
Speaker 1: they're like, this prison is five hundred miles away. If
Speaker 1: something happens to her there, it's on you. She's like,
Speaker 1: what do you want me to do? And they're like,
Speaker 1: get the judge to reconsider, and Sam is scared. She's like,
Speaker 1: I have other cases before this judge. She can make
Speaker 1: my life a living hell, and Pond is like, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make your life a living hell too, bitch.
Speaker 1: I'm filing a four to forty to vacate the conviction
Speaker 1: and the sentencing, and I'm reporting you to the bar.
Speaker 1: And Sam says she's sorry and walks away, Pond and
Speaker 1: Benson like talk about the judge.
Speaker 3: They're like, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 1: Like, New York City has three juvenile facilities, why would
Speaker 1: you send her to this one in Ohio.
Speaker 3: Or like even Connecticut?
Speaker 1: Penncilvan New Jersey like Ohio as far as fuck from
Speaker 1: New York and lives like not gonna let this go.
Speaker 1: So now they're at the clerk offices for Family Court
Speaker 1: and they're asking this little dorky clerk guy for statistics
Speaker 1: on Judge Marsden, and the guy they're talking to is like,
Speaker 1: no problem, let me get that for you. But suddenly
Speaker 1: a guy behind them is like, actually, I'm Ed Mangini.
Speaker 1: I'm the senior clerk and everything has to go through me.
Speaker 1: And he's like, so, if you have a request, just
Speaker 1: put it in writing and I'll get back to you.
Speaker 1: And Pond's like, oh, and let me guess you're super
Speaker 1: busy and it's going to take six weeks and he goes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's if I expedite it. Liv goes, why doesn't
Speaker 1: Marston want us looking at her stats? And then the
Speaker 1: dorky guy goes, well, they're both dorky.
Speaker 2: I was about to say well, there's sweet old dork
Speaker 2: and then there's irs audit kind of guy.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, now just that's warp totally.
Speaker 1: So sweet old dork goes ask her yourself, Her honor
Speaker 1: wants to see you both pronto. So they show up
Speaker 1: in Judge Martinson's courtroom and she's taking a recess from
Speaker 1: a trial she's currently presiding over, and she asks Pond, oh,
Speaker 1: are you representing Olivia? And she's like, does she need
Speaker 1: a lawyer? And Marsden is like, of course not. This
Speaker 1: is all off the record, a friendly little chat. Come
Speaker 1: join the party. Come on, ladies, let's gab. So why
Speaker 1: the sudden interest in me? She asks them, and Pond
Speaker 1: is like, live, you don't have to answer that, and
Speaker 1: Marsden says why this is just a friendly chat and
Speaker 1: liv goes, well it's funny, it doesn't feel friendly, and
Speaker 1: she goes, don't get cute. Why are you so hot
Speaker 1: for my sentencing stats? She goes, Ohio was the only option.
Speaker 1: There were no beds available in you and she calls
Speaker 1: Kim a sex offender and Olivia's like, she isn't one,
Speaker 1: and you're ruining her life, you evil bitch, and Marsen
Speaker 1: is like I'm sick of these kids waltzing in here
Speaker 1: thinking they can do whatever they want.
Speaker 3: Someone has to take a stand.
Speaker 1: It's like, where was she with these kids that were
Speaker 1: drinking in the episode responsible that we do at our
Speaker 1: live shows. We got we had Jude a light giving
Speaker 1: them chance after chance lives like, oh is that it?
Speaker 1: Or do you get off on the power? And the
Speaker 1: judge tells Olivia you better watch it or I'll hold
Speaker 1: you in contempt and she goes, how I thought this
Speaker 1: was just a friendly chat, and I really like love
Speaker 1: it when Olivia gets like sarcastic and sassy, but uh oh,
Speaker 1: this is the last straw for this psycho judge. And
Speaker 1: Pond's like, you don't have the authority to sanction Benson.
Speaker 1: And the judge goes watch this and calls the court
Speaker 1: officer over to take not only Benson but Pond as
Speaker 1: well to lock up. They're both in contempt of court.
Speaker 1: And then she goes, have a nice day, ladies, And
Speaker 1: it's so fucked. This is like the blood boiling shit
Speaker 1: that you get from just people like abusing their power.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so much worse than even just like
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just it's the it's the most
Speaker 1: like skin crawling kind of evil.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, obviously, because it's someone that no regard for
Speaker 2: anyone else's life. You know, like this girl's now on
Speaker 2: a sexual registry list. Yeah, because she took a photo
Speaker 2: and accidentally sent it to an extra friend who then
Speaker 2: spread it. It's like, it's wild to just want to
Speaker 2: ruin someone's life and no no care, no care in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in the next scene, the two ladies are in
Speaker 1: a cell when Cragan shows up and Benson's like, what
Speaker 1: are you waiting for?
Speaker 3: Spring us?
Speaker 1: And Craigan's like, I'm just savoring the moment, but like
Speaker 1: it lasts one second and then the door opens and
Speaker 1: Olivia comes out, and I'll tell you something. Her hair
Speaker 1: looks bouncy and shiny and gorgeous even in a musty cell.
Speaker 1: And she's like, we didn't even get our phone call.
Speaker 1: How do you know we were here? And he goes
Speaker 1: Sam called the corporation council. So then they go to
Speaker 1: speak to her and they're like, I thought you were
Speaker 1: scared of crossing this bitch, and she was like, well,
Speaker 1: at least I'll be in good company. And she's like
Speaker 1: I pulled up the stats on the judge and I
Speaker 1: found something juicy. She has sent nineteen kids to that
Speaker 1: facility in Ohio this year, and she sent thirty three
Speaker 1: there last year. They were all teen sex offenders and
Speaker 1: their crimes were urinating in public, public lewdness, loitering. None
Speaker 1: of them are sex offenses, and she took them all
Speaker 1: to trial and turned them into felonies. And Craigan's like, well,
Speaker 1: she's so she's a hanging judge, but it's within her
Speaker 1: jurisdic Like, that's within her purview, she can do that.
Speaker 1: So Olivia is like, well, then why did she lock
Speaker 1: us up just for asking about her records? And why
Speaker 1: did Ed Mangini tip her off? So now we cut
Speaker 1: to outside the courthouse and Ed Mangini is a running
Speaker 1: towards his Mercedes where Stabler is sitting on it reading
Speaker 1: the paper. And I don't blame him because I think
Speaker 1: that Stabler ass could really put a sizeable.
Speaker 3: Dent in a car.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't want that whole booty denting your
Speaker 1: sports car. So Stabler's like, nice wheels?
Speaker 3: Is it a rental? And the guy's like, I own it?
Speaker 1: And he's like pretty pricey for a government hack and
Speaker 1: you know, flashes his badge. And then in the next scene,
Speaker 1: Manginie's an interrogation with both Benson and Stabler asking this
Speaker 1: rat to explain himself, and he's like, I want a lawyer,
Speaker 1: and they're like, great idea, And maybe your lawyer can't
Speaker 1: explain a Mercedes and a seven figure condo in Boca
Speaker 1: on a salary of fifty six K. I'm sorry, a
Speaker 1: one million dollar condo in Boca in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: This better be ocean front. Like I don't know the
Speaker 2: market in Boca, but that shit better be on the water.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's also like you couldn't get an Audi.
Speaker 2: You had to get the Mercedes. I know, like you
Speaker 2: don't think anyone was gonna be suspicious. And if you
Speaker 2: got an old one, you could be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: got it from an inheritance or something, but like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and new Mercedes as a court ploye, it's like, dude,
Speaker 2: which you could also keep it in a garage or
Speaker 2: keep it at your house in Boca and drive it
Speaker 2: when you go down there.
Speaker 1: You're driving it to the courthouse where you are doing crimes.
Speaker 1: In New York City in New York City where no
Speaker 1: one drives. It's too crazy. And they're like telling him,
Speaker 1: They're like, so listen, right now, you're going down alone.
Speaker 1: We've got you on corruption, tax evasion. You cooperate with us.
Speaker 1: Now you're a witness and you're not a co conspirator.
Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, all right, and he just he
Speaker 1: doesn't even wait for that lawyer anymore. He's like, Judge
Speaker 1: Martin likes a certain kind of case, and I'm the
Speaker 1: one who makes up her docket. So basically, she pays
Speaker 1: this guy to pad her calendar so that she can
Speaker 1: send kids to this Wellsburg place because dun Dunn, her cousin,
Speaker 1: owns the facility in Wellsburg, and she gets kickbacks for
Speaker 1: every bed she fills. Ed Mangenie's like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I'll never do it again, and Stabler goes, actually you will.
Speaker 1: So in the next scene, Elliott is deep undercover wearing glasses.
Speaker 1: You can barely recognize him. But it's also like we've
Speaker 1: been working in the courts forever. She's never seen Elliott.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, it's like they just kept her
Speaker 1: away from live but like Elliott's fair game, I guess
Speaker 1: because they haven't had a one on one, and so
Speaker 1: he's walking into chambers with Marsden and she calls him
Speaker 1: mister Saroda, so we know he's undercover. And it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I heard you grew up with Ed Mangini and he's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, last kid picked for stickball, and he's like
Speaker 1: kind of putting on a queen's accent a little bit more,
Speaker 1: and then he tells her, listen, here's the deal. My
Speaker 1: thirteen year old daughter been hanging out with this fifteen
Speaker 1: year old low life. The kid is the worst, and
Speaker 1: he stole my car, totaled it, and the cops just
Speaker 1: busted him for joy riding, and I just think a
Speaker 1: little bit more should be done. So then he goes
Speaker 1: and Ed says, you know how to deal with kids
Speaker 1: like this, and she's like, I serve the public good.
Speaker 1: And he goes, well, the kid's name is Polly Catillano
Speaker 1: and he's in your schedule for tomorrow, and she said, well,
Speaker 1: i'll review the case. And he shakes her hand and goes,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, and she goes, well, you can always
Speaker 1: show your appreciation in the form of a donation to
Speaker 1: my re election campaign, because let's not forget judges get elected,
Speaker 1: so he pulls out. They get appointed. I don't know
Speaker 1: the different they get appointed sometimes by presidents or whatever.
Speaker 1: Maybe it depends on what kind of judge. But then
Speaker 1: they also think federal and then city ones states.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I do remember voting for Chicago judgeler like
Speaker 2: Cook County and like going Aho website.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, who was good and bad? And so many
Speaker 3: bad judges.
Speaker 2: It's like people before voting should look like I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously going to cover this real case, but like, I
Speaker 2: think these judges are causing a lot of problems.
Speaker 3: All over town today that we're actually recording.
Speaker 1: This episode is primaries here in California, and I voted
Speaker 1: for all these judges, but I consult like a progressive
Speaker 1: voter guide so that I'm hopefully voting for judges who
Speaker 1: are not you know, fucking Swoosy Kurtz.
Speaker 2: Like, I just don't know if normal, chill, good people
Speaker 2: want to just be judges. Except for one person I
Speaker 2: know who's on a judge bath. But I believe in her.
Speaker 2: But that's because her father was a judge whatever. So
Speaker 2: it's like a pilot, you know, like even if you're
Speaker 2: doing good work, you do have an ego.
Speaker 3: Surgeons, you know, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, Elliott undercover as Saroda pulls out a big
Speaker 2: yellow envelope full of cash, presumably and throws it on
Speaker 2: her desk, and then she shuts her portfolio on top
Speaker 2: of it, so clearly.
Speaker 3: A motion of accepting it. And now we're in court
Speaker 3: and it's a full school play.
Speaker 1: Okay, we've got Elliott in his glasses, Huong playing a
Speaker 1: defense attorney, and Ethan grand views star of Oklahoma has
Speaker 1: landed the role of Polly Catilano.
Speaker 2: I love out of all the detect to everyone that
Speaker 2: could have used undercover, they're like, you know, let's go
Speaker 2: to the back to the high school and.
Speaker 3: Get that theater kid. He's gonna kill it. It's like
Speaker 3: the best.
Speaker 2: This should be a spinoff movie, honestly. And then he
Speaker 2: starts just like going undercover for the cops.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I love this. I mean role of
Speaker 3: a lifetime. I love it.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Judge Marsden is like doing the thing that
Speaker 1: she does, and she's up charging the defendant. She's changing
Speaker 1: all the charges to grand larceny, auto custodial interference, and
Speaker 1: endangering the welfare of a child.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because this one I don't think is.
Speaker 1: Gonna get her any money, because I don't think that
Speaker 1: this is gonna get sent to Wellsburg.
Speaker 3: But it does show that she just has a pattern of.
Speaker 1: Like taking bribes and she doesn't give a fuck about kids,
Speaker 1: and so she escalates all these charges and then Huang
Speaker 1: objects and Marsden is like, don't tell me how to
Speaker 1: run my court room, and Polly aka Ethan has an
Speaker 1: outburst and Kragan's there playing his dad and is like,
Speaker 1: calm down, Polly. And we just don't get episodes like
Speaker 1: this anymore, like a full sting operation in court where
Speaker 1: everyone is acting and bringing their Thespian game.
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed.
Speaker 1: So she remands the kid to jail until trial, which
Speaker 1: is also a wild thing to do for a non
Speaker 1: violent offense, like to deny bail, Like I learned all
Speaker 1: about that during you know, the odd non saied is
Speaker 1: Like one of the reasons that people think he did
Speaker 1: not get a good defense is because he never once
Speaker 1: they took him, the police took him from his home,
Speaker 1: he never went back to his house again. So he
Speaker 1: like to let not let kids out on bail is
Speaker 1: wild and especially in this circumstance. So then she adjourns
Speaker 1: the court and Stabler stands up and goes, the only
Speaker 1: one going into custody is you, and what the hell
Speaker 1: is this? Marsden asks, and they go the end of
Speaker 1: a nightmare for hundreds of kids. Elliot arrests her for ribery,
Speaker 1: official misconduct, and false imprisonment. Huang adds plus federal charges
Speaker 1: of wire fraud and conspiracy to defraud the US. Marsten
Speaker 1: is yelling, I've done nothing wrong. These kids need to
Speaker 1: be put away. People like me keep this country safe.
Speaker 1: I have the balls to stand up for what's right,
Speaker 1: not like you, lousy bleeding hearts. And she is one
Speaker 1: hound do percent a Republican and she shares one last
Speaker 1: cold look with Sam as the authorities walk her out
Speaker 1: in cuffs and Stabler tells Ethan, you got a shot
Speaker 1: at Broadway, kid, and then he's like, how's Kim doing?
Speaker 1: So then we cut out sides to the courthouse. Kim
Speaker 1: exits with her family, sees Ethan.
Speaker 3: They hug. Maybe they'll start dating.
Speaker 1: Maybe she needs a theater dork to help her heal
Speaker 1: from this horrible relationship. She's getting out of her verdict
Speaker 1: and her sentence have been vacated, there's no record.
Speaker 3: It's like it never happened.
Speaker 1: And Kim says, a lot happened, and you all helped me,
Speaker 1: and Liv goes, no, you helped yourself, and then Kim smiles,
Speaker 1: and that's dick Wolf.
Speaker 3: Baby Very After School Special.
Speaker 5: Very.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I have a couple holes with this episode, which is like, like, one,
Speaker 1: why are we not trying the boys for disseminating the
Speaker 1: child pornography? Like that's like we could have easily figured
Speaker 1: that out. But also it doesn't really track for me
Speaker 1: that this judge was doing this to a girl who
Speaker 1: can afford a lawyer like Cassie Pond. Like, to me,
Speaker 1: this seems like the kind of thing you're trying to
Speaker 1: sneak past public defenders or people who are so overworked
Speaker 1: that they can't like, you know, they don't have time
Speaker 1: to file a four forty.
Speaker 3: It's like, you think she's gonna let this happen. She
Speaker 3: obviously gonna get you.
Speaker 4: No, I do.
Speaker 2: I think power corrupts your brain and it knows you,
Speaker 2: and I think you think you can get away with everything.
Speaker 2: I think it makes you arrogant, and that's when you
Speaker 2: get slappy and start making mistake. Yeah, you're getting all
Speaker 2: this money, You're controlling everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sick. I guess she's close with this cousin.
Speaker 5: I mean I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this cousin. How much could you possibly be getting?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Well, hold on to your seat belts. Guys.
Speaker 1: I've heard of this crime, but I don't know a lot,
Speaker 1: so I'm excited for you to tell me.
Speaker 2: So this episode is based on the Kids for Cash
Speaker 2: scandal and sets of crimes, not to be confused with
Speaker 2: Cars for Kids, which is what I thought this was
Speaker 2: this whole time before I started researching, was so fully separated.
Speaker 2: Did you think there was a scandal at Cars for Kids?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent correct?
Speaker 3: Yes, wow wow wow wow wow.
Speaker 2: Okay, because it seems shady cars is spelled with a
Speaker 2: K the billboards, like, I didn't believe in that either,
Speaker 2: So I did think that this was going to be
Speaker 2: a car I didn't. Yeah, I didn't realize that this
Speaker 2: was a different thing. So anyways, not good. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of different reporting, and maybe it's throughout the times,
Speaker 2: but between twenty five hundred and five thousand kids were
Speaker 2: affected by this Kid's for Cash scandal one judge aka
Speaker 2: one and a half. I would say two judges, a
Speaker 2: couple other guys. This is this is more dramatic. I
Speaker 2: wanted to start dramatic, but then more and more information
Speaker 2: came out. But this was my beginning start, you know,
Speaker 2: I was gonna be like, yeah, five thousand kids, one judge,
Speaker 2: millions of dollars, but there's actually many more players and
Speaker 2: I apologize, but the episode downplayed it a lot like
Speaker 2: it was thirty three kids last year, nineteen this year.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, not that any kid should be put
Speaker 2: away for nothing, but this is a huge fucking number.
Speaker 2: Well no, I wonder if it would be too unbelievable,
Speaker 2: like if they did it, because this is wild. So
Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven, the Juvenile Laws Center received
Speaker 2: like a call from an alarmed parent, and it made
Speaker 2: them start investigating irregularities in Pennsylvania. Luzerne County Juvenile Court
Speaker 2: luze r Any. I'm sure someone's gonna fuck with us
Speaker 2: and write us Luzernie whatever.
Speaker 3: I think it's Luzerne. Yeah, I would, That's how I
Speaker 3: would say it.
Speaker 2: And if it's not, you're in a dumb town, okay,
Speaker 2: Well yeah, you're known for this okay. So basically what
Speaker 2: the Law Center discovered beyond horrible. And so this county,
Speaker 2: Luzerne County was formerly known for coal and now for
Speaker 2: organized crime and public corruption.
Speaker 3: Is it's number one claim to fame.
Speaker 2: So basically, all of these kids, they all stood in
Speaker 2: front of Judge Mark Sierra Virella. But I might call
Speaker 2: him citronella throughout, because it's an easier word for me
Speaker 2: to say, but it seems like the same, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And then he saw these kids without
Speaker 2: counsel most of the time, found them guilty very very
Speaker 2: quickly for minor offenses, and then immediately transferred them out
Speaker 2: of their home immediately, which of course this is not allowed.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how this fucker got away with it,
Speaker 2: because in nineteen sixty seven there was a US Supreme
Speaker 2: Court ruling that children have a constitutional right to counsel.
Speaker 2: So the fact that he was like trying all of
Speaker 2: these kids, I'll get into the numbers in the nitty
Speaker 2: gritty throughout, but like the fact that he was able
Speaker 2: to like try all these kids quickly with no counsel
Speaker 2: when there's laws on the books for as long as
Speaker 2: he did is really shocking.
Speaker 3: And it shows us how bureaucracy is stupid.
Speaker 2: So in his courtroom, these kids were seen without counsel
Speaker 2: like five times more the state average from nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: seven to two thousand and three, and then once all
Speaker 2: of these deals and business things and corruptions started, from
Speaker 2: two thousand and three to two thousand and seven, it
Speaker 2: was ten times the state average that he was seeing
Speaker 2: kids without counsel. And then I wrote, OMG in my notes, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how I felt. So not only without counsel, but
Speaker 2: like I said, very brief hearings, the average length was
Speaker 2: four minutes.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Sorry if I popped anyone's ear vault like earbuts by yelling,
Speaker 2: but four minutes.
Speaker 4: Fuck.
Speaker 2: And then not only that, more evidence was the detention
Speaker 2: center workers were told in advance how many juveniles to
Speaker 2: expect at the end of each day. But that was
Speaker 2: before hearings, So like before the hearings to determine if
Speaker 2: these kids were innocent or guilty even happened, they were
Speaker 2: already telling the detention center workers how many and take
Speaker 2: that people were going to come in, and lawyers told
Speaker 2: families even don't even bother hiring us, because he doesn't
Speaker 2: let us speak anyways. So that's the thing, even people
Speaker 2: with lawyers, because you're like, how would this happen in
Speaker 2: real life with these cool lawyers. He just didn't let
Speaker 2: them talk, like he didn't care. And we'll get into
Speaker 2: like more and more examples. This fucker was very unforgiving
Speaker 2: and relentless. So finally, in two thousand and eight, they
Speaker 2: petitioned the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to vacate all of these
Speaker 2: juveniles and expunge the records.
Speaker 3: And there is a documentary on all of this called
Speaker 3: Kids for Cash.
Speaker 2: It came out in twenty fourteen, so if you want
Speaker 2: more information, and it was done by a legit reporter.
Speaker 3: So in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: They petitioned the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to vacate all these
Speaker 2: juveniles and expunge the records. But the court denied the
Speaker 2: initial petition. But then the United States Attorney alleged that
Speaker 2: this judge, you know, Citronella and another judge in Luzern
Speaker 2: County named Michael Conahan had accepted two point six million
Speaker 2: dollars in kickbacks from two private for profit juvenile facilities.
Speaker 2: One was the Pennsylvania Childcare and then the Sister location
Speaker 2: was in western Pennsylvania and it was like Western PA childcare,
Speaker 2: and he had like zero tolerance policy, so lots of
Speaker 2: kids were sent zero tolerance. And these two freaks became
Speaker 2: super close because they had similar stern views of justice
Speaker 2: while of course breaking the law for themselves.
Speaker 3: That's what I love.
Speaker 2: I love that these like super like always are the
Speaker 2: ones committing all of these fucking crimes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So they lived right next to each other. They bought
Speaker 2: houses next to each other in this wealthy suburb called
Speaker 2: Wilkes Bar. There's like another co conspirator that lived in
Speaker 2: that neighborhood too, We'll learn about him.
Speaker 3: So, and they were close.
Speaker 2: These judges, they would get RVs as families had to
Speaker 2: penn State games Florida. They were all friends, and they
Speaker 2: also had a lot in common, like sending children as
Speaker 2: young as.
Speaker 3: Eight to detention centers. Oh my god, yeah eight.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And if parents were unable to pay the
Speaker 2: costs of detention, their children were held longer. One teen
Speaker 2: social security survivors check from her dead father were garnished
Speaker 2: to pay the costs of being sent away by one
Speaker 2: of these judges.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, you have to pay for it when
Speaker 3: you get sentenced to a juvenile facility.
Speaker 2: You pay for it, well, I know, for jail, Like
Speaker 2: I got a bill after I got out of jail
Speaker 2: for a few days. You owe money, who you owe
Speaker 2: money for your time? That's why it's crazy.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's for profit, like oh my god,
Speaker 2: or you owed the city. But yeah, you get bill.
Speaker 2: You get like a bill.
Speaker 3: Anyone can write in and tell me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 3: but yeah, fuck okay.
Speaker 2: Many of these children first time offenders for things like
Speaker 2: petty theft, jaywalking, true and see smoking on school grounds.
Speaker 2: So like one girl, Hillary Transu, did not have an attorney,
Speaker 2: She was not told she had the right to one.
Speaker 2: She appeared in his courtroom Sevrella in two thousand and
Speaker 2: seven for building a MySpace page that made fun of
Speaker 2: her assistant principle. Her mother, Laurene Transue, worked for sixteen
Speaker 2: years in the child services department of another county, and
Speaker 2: so she was certain that Hillary would just get a
Speaker 2: slap on the wrist, but instead she was sentenced to
Speaker 2: three months in a facility for making a joke MySpace page.
Speaker 2: But her mom got a lawyer and she got out
Speaker 2: after a month, but still a month. I hope she's
Speaker 2: still making memes today. Yeah, ahead of her time. Another
Speaker 2: boy was accused of acting as a lookout for his
Speaker 2: friend who was stealing DVDs. He's like, I didn't even
Speaker 2: know my friend was going to steal these DVDs. But
Speaker 2: he did plead guilty and then was sent to wilderness
Speaker 2: camp for four fucking months. He ended up dropping out
Speaker 2: of school and it ruined his whole life.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: One parent he threw in jail who could not pay
Speaker 2: the court and posed fees for his daughter who was
Speaker 2: locked up. A thirteen year old was incarcerated for throwing
Speaker 2: a piece of steak at her mother's boyfriend. There was
Speaker 2: a fifteen year old who was sentenced for throwing a
Speaker 2: sandal at her mother. An eleven year old who called
Speaker 2: the police after her his mother locked him out of
Speaker 2: the house. A fourteen year old for writing vote for
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson on some stop signs, and then that girl
Speaker 2: ended up having a seizure in the detention center after
Speaker 2: banging her head so hard she cracked her dental braces.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So this girl wrote something on a stop sign and
Speaker 2: then ended up like full on physical harm. One fourteen
Speaker 2: year old pocketed changed from unlocked cars in the neighborhood
Speaker 2: and a cop caught him, and so this eighth grader
Speaker 2: was taken away and shipped to a school for troubled
Speaker 2: teens for nine months.
Speaker 3: Jesus, this is so bad.
Speaker 2: The judge would find kids delinquent and straight up shackle
Speaker 2: them and take them away without giving them a chance
Speaker 2: to put up a defense or even saying goodbye to
Speaker 2: their families. Many of these kids were traumatized for life,
Speaker 2: as you can imagine being shipped off to jail and
Speaker 2: then having so much struggle when they come back, and
Speaker 2: then they're shunned by their friends.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know that this guy, besides the fact
Speaker 1: that he's getting kickbacks or whatever the fuck, thinks that
Speaker 1: like this is like a scared straight tactic that's like
Speaker 1: good to help these kids like never commit a crime again.
Speaker 1: And it's like, how much do you want to admit
Speaker 1: that this fucked them all up so much that like
Speaker 1: they can't hold jobs, they commit crimes, Like do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't even think he thought he was
Speaker 2: doing good. I really don't see that in him, Like
Speaker 2: I just think he's a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, no, just to say that, like, traumatizing kids
Speaker 1: doesn't teach them a lesson, you know, he just traumatizes them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, trauma is just trauma. Doesn't make you stronger, better,
Speaker 3: anything like that.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't even just juvenile cases, like this guy
Speaker 2: was just corrupt, you know, you would help his friends out.
Speaker 2: He had a friend from high school who ended up
Speaker 2: standing before him in court. He was going eighty and
Speaker 2: a fifty five and the judge said no, he wasn't,
Speaker 2: he was going sixty.
Speaker 3: Matter closed and it was dismissed and done. Wow that
Speaker 3: was that. And so for me, I'm like, well, how
Speaker 3: did this go on for so long?
Speaker 2: So like people must have seen it, right, prosecutors, public defenders, teachers,
Speaker 2: court employees, everyone saw what was going on. Like Severrella
Speaker 2: even told juvenile probation officers that talk to kids. He's like,
Speaker 2: talk kids out of exercising their right to count. So
Speaker 2: he gave direct orders to employees to convince kids not
Speaker 2: to get lawyers. But later when he was asked why
Speaker 2: he didn't make a habit of doing the opposite, you know,
Speaker 2: like telling juveniles about their rights. So he was quoted saying,
Speaker 2: I just don't believe I have to spoon feed people
Speaker 2: to do things in their life. So that's what he
Speaker 2: believes in telling children that they have a right to counsel,
Speaker 2: that's like spoon feeding information to them that they can have.
Speaker 2: But it also doesn't take away like you're not even
Speaker 2: spoon feeding, you're telling people to do the opposite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because at the age of eleven, you should know
Speaker 1: how the justice system works and that you're allowed a lawyer.
Speaker 2: Like, what are you talking about? You better start getting
Speaker 2: some tutoring for those kids. You know, Rosie is gonna
Speaker 2: be up to no good. She needs to know this stuff. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: knock on wood. I could see her making a little
Speaker 2: MySpace page.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And yeah, I gotta definitely tell her don't
Speaker 1: say anything to me on the phone from jail, Like
Speaker 1: what that TikTok says. Yeah, Like she's gonna call me
Speaker 1: from jail and I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: Just But even though I'm like where were the people,
Speaker 2: there were people that were trying to help, and you know,
Speaker 2: some got pushed through and did some tried. You know,
Speaker 2: there were local reporters who broke the story. There was
Speaker 2: another whistle blowing family court judge. Like I mentioned the
Speaker 2: Juvenile Law Center attorneys from Pennsylvania who represented some of
Speaker 2: the detained children, and they were the ones that petitioned
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. There were parents that like fought for
Speaker 2: their kids, you know, there were people really fighting hard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: which makes it even more shocking that this was able
Speaker 2: to go on for years. You know, this went on
Speaker 2: from three, like I said, until eight and then in
Speaker 2: two thousand and three, though the state's Apartment of Public
Speaker 2: Welfare auditors noticed that the county was billing the state
Speaker 2: for the same amount every month for detention centers, which
Speaker 2: was strange because in most other counties the bills fluctuate
Speaker 2: based on the changing numbers of juvenile offenders each month.
Speaker 2: So that was put on blast almost immediately, right. So
Speaker 2: there was just so many red flags. And Ted Dallas,
Speaker 2: he was the executive deputy Secretary for the Department of
Speaker 2: Public Welfare, He's like, yeah, the red flags were everywhere,
Speaker 2: and he tried to work with the CA to lower
Speaker 2: its use of detention centers because the state pays partial
Speaker 2: reimbursement for all those costs, but he couldn't do much
Speaker 2: because the centers were privately owned. State auditors had limited
Speaker 2: authority and the judges were on the side of the centers,
Speaker 2: so there was little to do. So in the end
Speaker 2: Dallas was like, yeah, it all came down to the
Speaker 2: judge who decided, and the judge was getting.
Speaker 3: Kickbacks and in charge of all of this. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: and he was the head of stuff.
Speaker 2: So it was just like even the people that were
Speaker 2: trying to do stuff really couldn't do much, no authority,
Speaker 2: and you know, the voices are coming from inside the house.
Speaker 2: There was also another judge who tried to do something
Speaker 2: named Chester B. Morosky, and he sent a letter to
Speaker 2: the county commissioners raising concerns about the detention costs, and
Speaker 2: he was transferred to a different court a few days
Speaker 2: later by Judge Michael Conahan, who was like one of
Speaker 2: the duos.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then there was Steve lud the county controller, and
Speaker 2: he leaked a state audit about the Center and how
Speaker 2: bad the deal was. But with that audit, the Center
Speaker 2: ended up filing a trade secrets lawsuit against Flood, and
Speaker 2: then Conahan sealed the suit to limit other documents from
Speaker 2: getting out. It was later overturned and we got the information.
Speaker 2: But like everybody's just fucking covering for each other.
Speaker 3: Right, Like, how fucking crazy? And so for years though
Speaker 3: before this.
Speaker 2: Youth advocacy groups complained that this prick was ridiculously harsh
Speaker 2: and trampled on these kids' rights. He was sending a
Speaker 2: quarter of his defendants to detention centers while the statewide
Speaker 2: average was one to ten. And you know, most likely
Speaker 2: these young kids were dealing with emotional or mental health issues,
Speaker 2: and then he ended up ripping them from their home
Speaker 2: while they're already like struggling in some sort of ways
Speaker 2: in the most critical years of their childhood and development.
Speaker 2: So Marsha Levick, she's was the legal director of the
Speaker 2: Juvenile Law Center, said the law was irrelevant in that courtroom.
Speaker 2: But how did this all start? You know, like how
Speaker 2: did they get the power? How did they get involved
Speaker 2: in these things? Was it someone's cousin like in the episode, No,
Speaker 2: it wasn't, okay, So these were just friends out So
Speaker 2: it started in June two thousand, like simple business proposition.
Speaker 2: And this is from the New York Times and this
Speaker 2: is all based on information from the indictment and forty interviews.
Speaker 3: So Robert J.
Speaker 2: Powell was a wealthy personal injury lawyer and a longtime
Speaker 2: friend with Judge Michael Conahan and he wanted to know
Speaker 2: if he could get a contract to build a private
Speaker 2: detention center. Yes, my Google docs changed it to dental center.
Speaker 2: So then Judge Siverrella thought that he could help with
Speaker 2: this plan. So the two judges met and they put
Speaker 2: this all together. So first Sivirella put Powell in touch
Speaker 2: with a developer who was also an old friend of
Speaker 2: his named Robert Miracle to start working on finding a site.
Speaker 2: So then January two thousand and two, Conaham then becomes
Speaker 2: the president judge, which gives him control of the courthouse budget,
Speaker 2: and so he signs a secret deal with Powell, agreeing
Speaker 2: that the would pay one point three million dollars an
Speaker 2: annual rent on top of the tens of millions the
Speaker 2: county and the state would pay to house the delinquent juveniles,
Speaker 2: and then got rid of the competition by closing down
Speaker 2: the county detention center.
Speaker 3: Wow, dia Ballacle long.
Speaker 2: I mean it took him years to get the plan
Speaker 2: in place, and like run for office and get these positions, get.
Speaker 3: Like they are Diabolla call.
Speaker 2: So they were paid to shut down, you know, the
Speaker 2: county center, and so the profits ones were the only
Speaker 2: options starting in two thousand and two. So then Judge
Speaker 2: Michael Conahan was the head of the county's court system
Speaker 2: also from two thousand and two to two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: so he had the power to close it all down.
Speaker 2: And in a separate review from state auditors, they found
Speaker 2: out that like, by the way they were able to
Speaker 2: shut down the old one was by overbilling the county
Speaker 2: and so then that county center fell behind on their
Speaker 2: bills and then they began getting like utilities shut off
Speaker 2: and stuff like that because they couldn't afford it because
Speaker 2: the government taking money from them to close them down.
Speaker 2: And then of course they also got money from the
Speaker 2: builder of the for profit centers as well as the
Speaker 2: co owner of the profit lockups as well. So the
Speaker 2: contractor was Robert Miracle, like I mentioned, and then the
Speaker 2: co owner and he's an attorney, was Robert Powell. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really it's really, it's really wild. So the judges
Speaker 2: were making so much cash that they had a hard
Speaker 2: time hiding it all. So in two thousand and four,
Speaker 2: Ding Ding Ding, like the episode, but they did it together.
Speaker 2: They bought a condo in Florida that cost seven hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty five thousand dollars, and that was to help
Speaker 2: conceal the payments, and they began disguising transactions as rent
Speaker 2: and other fees. The superintendent of the condo building set
Speaker 2: according to the New York Times and this was this
Speaker 2: is shade.
Speaker 3: I like love it.
Speaker 2: They were pretty average guys, average people with lots of money.
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, you average pieces of shit. Like
Speaker 2: even the superintendent can be like they're trash. They're not
Speaker 2: people that have money like this, something's weird.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And in front of the condo there was a fifty
Speaker 2: six foot yacht and that belongs to Powell and he
Speaker 2: was spending a lot of time outside the condo of
Speaker 2: the judges, which is like what are you doing?
Speaker 3: And get this. The boat was named Real Justice. R
Speaker 3: ee l. I'm about to fucking throw something across the room. Yeah,
Speaker 3: with your pun boat yacht name, you stupid piece of shit. Well,
Speaker 3: putting eight year olds in jail Real Justice ha ha.
Speaker 3: It's like Sandoval and Schwartz, just like in front of
Speaker 3: everyone's face. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: With the boat.
Speaker 2: Though, they had to renew the slip lease and he
Speaker 2: refused and there was a fight. So then like this
Speaker 2: is how petty and crazy these people are. So he
Speaker 2: set up a motion about the slip fight. But in
Speaker 2: Luzern County in Pennsylvania, I don't even know how you're
Speaker 2: allowed to do that, not in Florida. So then the
Speaker 2: marina's lawyer couldn't get to Pennsylvania in time with one
Speaker 2: day notice, and so then they lost the case of
Speaker 2: like the slip lease. You know, this is like how
Speaker 2: my mom says, you do one thing, you do everything
Speaker 2: like yeah, you they did to the children as the
Speaker 2: most egregious of it all, but also you know, pulling
Speaker 2: shit everywhere. So finally the Pennsylvania Supreme Court granted the
Speaker 2: requests from the Juvenile Law Center in Pennsylvania for extraordinary relief,
Speaker 2: and the US Attorney filed federal charges against both judges.
Speaker 2: So from two thousand and three to two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: these guys altered the lives of all of these children.
Speaker 2: Over fifty percent of the children who appeared before this
Speaker 2: guy lacked legal representation, sixty percent were removed from their homes.
Speaker 2: Conahan and Severarella ended up reaching a plea agreement soon
Speaker 2: after arrest to serve more than seven years each, and
Speaker 2: the judge went, no, bitch, I'm rejecting this deal. Go
Speaker 2: fuck yourselves. So then they obviously they took away their
Speaker 2: guilty please. So in January two thousand and nine they
Speaker 2: were charged and then the pleas were rejected, and so
Speaker 2: then they walked back they're guilty, you know, please for
Speaker 2: the deal. And so September two thousand and nine they
Speaker 2: were hit with a forty eight count indictment. Conahan pled
Speaker 2: guilty and Civerrella went to court in a trial that
Speaker 2: ended in twenty eleven. He kept denying that him getting
Speaker 2: money had any effect on the rulings, but numbers don't lie.
Speaker 2: So the number of junoviniles that were sent off doubled
Speaker 2: right around when the plans and these things were built
Speaker 2: and everything happened. Miracle and Powell they pled guilty in
Speaker 2: their cases for failing to report a felony. I feel
Speaker 2: like they did more worse things, and I don't understand
Speaker 2: why this is it. Powell got an eighteen month sentence
Speaker 2: and Miracle got a one year sentence, and I'm pissed
Speaker 2: they didn't just fail to report. They gave money to judge,
Speaker 2: like they were doing illegal things not reporting to the judges,
Speaker 2: but they were getting kicked backs and close it like
Speaker 2: what in two thousand and nine, and all the youth
Speaker 2: that stood in front of him, they had all of
Speaker 2: their cases like dismissed and records expunged.
Speaker 3: So that is good news.
Speaker 2: The Juvenile Legal Center then partnered with some pro bono
Speaker 2: council and filed a federal class action lawsuit on behalf
Speaker 2: of the children and parents. So that was going after
Speaker 2: the judges, the private facilities, the co owners, developers, everyone,
Speaker 2: and those judges were ordered to pay more than two
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars. So it's one hundred and six million
Speaker 2: in compensatory damages and one hundred million in punitive damages
Speaker 2: to nearly three hundred people. Because it was only the
Speaker 2: people that got involved in the case. It wasn't just
Speaker 2: like all of the children unfortunately. But that settlement didn't
Speaker 2: happen till twenty twenty two.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the initial case was set forth like two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine when it could, but it did not
Speaker 2: settle till twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: At that point, those kids are like in their mid
Speaker 1: twenties probably adults.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like they're going to see a small fraction
Speaker 3: of that money.
Speaker 2: But basically, the judge the calculations were every plaintif was
Speaker 2: going to get a base rate of one thousand dollars
Speaker 2: for each day of wrongful detention, and then an adjusted
Speaker 2: amount after that, like per case. Looking into it years prior,
Speaker 2: though sorry I'm bouncing a little bit, the builder and
Speaker 2: the owner of the private lockups already settled their cases
Speaker 2: and they did payouts totally about twenty five million. But sadly,
Speaker 2: as you can imagine, with all of this trauma, like
Speaker 2: a lot of those playtans sadly died since the lawsuit
Speaker 2: in Ow nine from overdoses and taking their own lives
Speaker 2: and like yeah, you know, being kidnapped, Like it's awful.
Speaker 3: They should be charged for murder.
Speaker 2: US District Judge Christopher Connor ruled on all of this
Speaker 2: after hearing from two hundred and eighty two people who
Speaker 2: were children that were fucked up by these guys, and
Speaker 2: then thirty two parents. Connor said to the AP in quotes,
Speaker 2: they recounted his harsh and arbitrary nature, his disdain for
Speaker 2: due process, his extraordinary abruptness, and his cavalier and boorish behavior.
Speaker 3: In the courtroom end quote, and I wrote cocky fuck.
Speaker 2: But like a lot of the lawyers and everyone involved
Speaker 2: in the case are like, yeah, the money, But it's
Speaker 2: also just like vindication too, you know, of all of this,
Speaker 2: and like the recognition something wrong happened is a victory. Also,
Speaker 2: Siverrella did write a letter to his former colleagues. I
Speaker 2: don't buy, I don't care, but this is according to
Speaker 2: NBC News, and in it he wrote, I have disgraced
Speaker 2: my judgeship. My actions have destroyed everything I worked to accomplish,
Speaker 2: and I have only myself to blame. And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: what did you work to accomplish? Actually, yeah, because it
Speaker 2: seems like to jail children. So I'm a little confused,
Speaker 2: And yeah, you have no heart and I hope you die.
Speaker 2: So Citronella is old and he's serving a twenty eight
Speaker 2: year prison sentence in Kentucky with a projected release of
Speaker 2: twenty thirty five. And I feel like there's no better
Speaker 2: punishment than a twenty eight year sentence for this man. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sit in jail, you fuck. I've never been so satisfied
Speaker 2: with a ruling, like, you know, Yeah, there's so many
Speaker 2: complicated beliefs but this guy who sent all of these
Speaker 2: young children to like rod Away, like, yes, sit in jail.
Speaker 3: Conahan.
Speaker 2: He's old and he got more than seventeen years in prison,
Speaker 2: but in twenty twenty he was released to home confinement
Speaker 2: with six years left on his sentence because of COVID.
Speaker 2: He was high risk. I don't care about him, but yeah,
Speaker 2: he had some issues. He had hard issues and Ghoul
Speaker 2: and Bear do you know this, Jullian Bear, Julian Bear.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've heard this. It's when your immune
Speaker 2: system attacks your nerves or something like that. But he
Speaker 2: had high blood pressure, he had a lot of like
Speaker 2: the things. But I also don't trust him, and I knew,
Speaker 2: I bet he knew how to play the courts. But
Speaker 2: he is still in home lock up. He's due for
Speaker 2: full release in twenty twenty six. But I wrote, why
Speaker 2: give him consideration like being high risk and giving him care?
Speaker 2: We should give him the same care and attention that
Speaker 2: he gave the children he sentenced.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's the ever after punishment. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: remember the Drew Barrymore Angelica Houston moment.
Speaker 3: And no I don't, but I've never seen that you've
Speaker 3: never seen ever after. No, it's so good care.
Speaker 1: And that's wild because I'm a huge I'm a huge
Speaker 1: Angelica Houston fan.
Speaker 2: She's so evil and good and that the costumes are insane.
Speaker 2: Leonardo da Vinci is a character wildly like just the
Speaker 2: guy Drew Barrymore's friends with, but also are Queen Melanie Lynsky,
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: But it's you know, it's a play on Cinderella. I'm
Speaker 3: sure you know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So basically like at the end, you
Speaker 2: know Cinderella, Drew Berymore gets the Prince, everything's great, but
Speaker 2: then they bring the mom and the sisters. Well not
Speaker 2: Melanie Lynsky's the good sister, she gets to like hang
Speaker 2: out with Drew Barrymore but the evil one and Angelica
Speaker 2: Houston there in front of the King and Queen at
Speaker 2: the end, and the King and Queen are like, you
Speaker 2: are gonna be sent off to the Americas, which I
Speaker 2: guess was a huge punishment in this time, like you're
Speaker 2: gonna be sent forth to whatever across the ocean, and
Speaker 2: Drew Barrymore interjects and goes, no, they can stay here,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna give my mom and sister the same
Speaker 2: care and treatment that they gave me, and then you
Speaker 2: see the full panic on their faces and then it
Speaker 2: cuts to them like doing laundry and falling in the
Speaker 2: water and the nuns being like you dumb.
Speaker 3: Bitches, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just like cool because Drew Bermer still
Speaker 2: gets to be like, yeah, just treat you in the loving,
Speaker 2: amazing way that you treated me, and yeah, so fuck
Speaker 2: this guy when she died of COVID in the jail, okay,
Speaker 2: and the New York Time piece like that. I read
Speaker 2: one of the pieces I read, and this is like
Speaker 2: we are a country addicted to incarceration. That is what
Speaker 2: the New York Times kind of concluded with, even like
Speaker 2: celebrating these types of jet like ah, he's a strip, Yeah,
Speaker 2: get him out of here, Like that's not yeah, we're
Speaker 2: obsessed with incarceration, but that's probably Like I do want
Speaker 2: to know if we were obsessed with incarceration prior to
Speaker 2: like private prisons and capitalisms. But also like modern day
Speaker 2: policing started as like slave catching yea, so maybe it
Speaker 2: was always about like keeping of people in there and
Speaker 2: getting free labor because of one of the amendments, you
Speaker 2: know whatever, there's like a documentary about it on Netflix.
Speaker 2: But I wonder when that switch happened or like what
Speaker 2: if it was always this way or what? I don't know,
Speaker 2: and when the private citization happened of prisons.
Speaker 3: There's just like.
Speaker 1: Needs to be oversight as well for these like judges,
Speaker 1: for people that are in power, Like nobody should have
Speaker 1: any carte blanche. Like no one's gonna let a surgeon
Speaker 1: just keep killing people, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: there's going to be a review board that's like, what's up, dude,
Speaker 1: You've been killing a lot of people, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean that's kind of what happened in one season of
Speaker 1: Doctor Death. But like, you know, these I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like the way that they went in in the
Speaker 1: episode to look at the stats, it's like, let's keep
Speaker 1: an eye on the fucking stats to make sure that
Speaker 1: judges aren't taking kickbacks and fully corrupt assholes. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like that hard of a job. Just it's
Speaker 1: all computerized people's stats. But fuck, I'm glad this guy's
Speaker 1: rotting in jail still, I know, I kind of I
Speaker 1: want to go visit him. Do you want to go
Speaker 1: to Kentucky?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Road Track I wonder if they could take random visitors,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure they're lonely, Like I'm sure they would
Speaker 2: want to meet us if we showed up, like even
Speaker 2: if we were mean and we just said fuck you,
Speaker 2: we hate you and left, and they're like put.
Speaker 3: Five dollars in my commissary at least, like before we leave.
Speaker 2: I mean to like take a girl, lock her up
Speaker 2: for something she probably didn't do anything bad for it,
Speaker 2: and then taking her dead dad's social Security checks to
Speaker 2: guard Like what the fuck are you doing? It's not
Speaker 2: even real, and like we have a because I remember
Speaker 2: I was at the stage and I was talking about
Speaker 2: how like I probably talked about it on this podcast.
Speaker 2: But in Finland, the nice hotel we stayed at was
Speaker 2: uh an old jail, and it had a jail theme
Speaker 2: and people are like eugh, and it's like yeah, but
Speaker 2: I don't think all countries have the same relationship with jail. Ah,
Speaker 2: Like if you look at a jail in one of
Speaker 2: the Nordic countries, it's like, looks nice.
Speaker 3: They don't look like the ones here. No, no, So
Speaker 3: I don't know. We are addicted to incarceration.
Speaker 2: So many people are imprisoned, and I wish people got
Speaker 2: to go to school more. And I just don't understand
Speaker 2: how the neighborhood you live in, those taxes go to
Speaker 2: your school, so if you're poor, you get a bad school.
Speaker 3: Sorry, that's the way it is, Like I don't get that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like how did that start?
Speaker 2: Like how like that must have been a race thing,
Speaker 2: because that's the end of the day, that's the whole
Speaker 2: thing with our country. It's like we would rather have
Speaker 2: like make black people get nothing then improve white people's lives.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, like education used to be affordable
Speaker 2: and then so many black people were going to college
Speaker 2: that Reagan then made it expensive to keep black people
Speaker 2: out of college.
Speaker 3: But it's like, okay, well now everyone care.
Speaker 2: Like that's what I mean, Like as like right wing
Speaker 2: white people are they would rather keep their lives terrible
Speaker 2: than have a black person has Like okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm sure it sounded crazy, but like I keep reading
Speaker 2: more and more stuff about that, but it's like they
Speaker 2: would rather punish black people than improve their lives in
Speaker 2: any way. Yes, yes, I hear that, And that's how
Speaker 2: I feel in terms of schools, Like how did that
Speaker 2: even start? The amount of taxes you pay, and that
Speaker 2: means your kids can't have books. Like It's like, what
Speaker 2: like that must have been. I wonder because I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about redlining and all of that, and I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I wonder how it started that, like poor people can't
Speaker 2: and they want poor people dumb.
Speaker 1: Like to pay taxes based on your income. So obviously
Speaker 1: Richard towns have better schools. And yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: when that all started. We're about to improve our listeners'
Speaker 1: lives with an amazing guest that I think is really
Speaker 1: really make you guys happy.
Speaker 3: So don't go anywhere.
Speaker 2: This is an all time legendary episode, I would say
Speaker 2: all time.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, today's guest. We are so excited. This
Speaker 1: has been a long time in the making. You might
Speaker 1: know him as Mickey Milkovich on Showtime Shameless, or maybe
Speaker 1: even as Michael Lane in the film Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,
Speaker 1: but we know him as the CSU tech that you
Speaker 1: love to hate, Dale Stucky. Please enjoy our chat with
Speaker 1: the one and only nol Fisher.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Stucky, Oh my gosh, so great to
Speaker 3: meet you. I can't believe we finally are talking to you.
Speaker 3: This is so great.
Speaker 5: We did it too.
Speaker 3: So I'm Kara.
Speaker 1: I'm friends with Clint and Tony who you know sing
Speaker 1: your praises, And my husband and my son were just
Speaker 1: at little Cash's birthday party last weekend and apparently it
Speaker 1: was a real rager out of my gym.
Speaker 2: We have no mutuals. But I'm a shameless girl. So
Speaker 2: I've been following you enough. Yeah, I mean, what's so wild? No, Like,
Speaker 2: are you familiar with the fury and attention your character
Speaker 2: has in the SVU fandom?
Speaker 5: Not a lot, A little bit. I know that he was.
Speaker 5: While I was doing it, I was like, this dude's annoying.
Speaker 5: This guy's very annoying. So, you know, I feel like
Speaker 5: I feel like if people were annoyed, maybe I did
Speaker 5: my job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know you you didn't nail it. Were
Speaker 3: you a killer the whole time? Or did you have
Speaker 3: a mental break?
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's hard to say, you know, Like
Speaker 5: it's that joker thing, right, it takes one bad day
Speaker 5: or something like that. I think he seemed like a
Speaker 5: guy who was pretty unstable to begin with, you know
Speaker 5: what I mean. Likes there's a lot of a lot
Speaker 5: of the early scenes where he's the way he speaks
Speaker 5: so casually about dead bodies and murdered people and stuff.
Speaker 5: Is it's just sort of like it's a red flag,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 1: What I mean, it's just a concerning Yeah, there's some
Speaker 1: parts where he's smart, but he just has like no
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence at all. It feels I don't even know
Speaker 1: how this worked out because I don't know where you
Speaker 1: were in your career when you got this part. But like,
Speaker 1: did they tell you this is going to be like
Speaker 1: a for a recurring or was it like one and
Speaker 1: then they just liked you and kept bringing it back?
Speaker 3: Like how did this work?
Speaker 5: Like go, it was a recurring from the start, I
Speaker 5: didn't know where the recurring was going to end, Okay,
Speaker 5: So I entered it just being like, okay, well I
Speaker 5: don't I don't know quite where he's where he's going
Speaker 5: to land. But yeah, they said it was an interesting arc.
Speaker 1: And it was.
Speaker 5: It was I think nine I want to say, oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: nine something around there. I mean, I grew up was
Speaker 5: born in eighty four, so I'm like right in that
Speaker 5: in the heart of like the original Law and Order,
Speaker 5: like you know, when it was like just huge. I
Speaker 5: grew up watching it. I was a big fan of it,
Speaker 5: and uh, and then it was you know, not early
Speaker 5: on in my career, but it was definitely one of
Speaker 5: those things like, oh, I get to go and like
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go doing a law and order you know thing.
Speaker 5: And from there just kind of went more and more
Speaker 5: into kind of crazy feld because I got to like
Speaker 5: murder people and you know, all that fun stuff.
Speaker 3: I mean, to be a fan of law and Order
Speaker 3: and get that kind of an arc is wild.
Speaker 5: It was a lot.
Speaker 2: You get to be on the law enforcement, you get
Speaker 2: to be with the detectives, and then you get to
Speaker 2: really go wild and make and make out with Benson.
Speaker 5: That that said kisses are weird. I like that scene
Speaker 5: was so big. It's such a big scene, right, Like
Speaker 5: there's so much and we probably spent four hours or
Speaker 5: more like just recording all the different pieces of it.
Speaker 5: And you know, I'm in the my characters stuck. He's
Speaker 5: in the middle of a breakdown. Is he is off
Speaker 5: the plot? Right, He's lost the plots. He's all the
Speaker 5: way out in wherever he is, and I'm keeping myself
Speaker 5: amped up and like, you know, the scenes, he's screaming,
Speaker 5: he's like kind of slightly crying, He's like doing all
Speaker 5: this stuff, and so when it came time for that point,
Speaker 5: I was just like, man, i am just so freaking
Speaker 5: wet right now. I'm way too moist, Like I'm sweaty
Speaker 5: and like my tears falling down my cheeks. I'm just like,
Speaker 5: this is I feel bad for Mariska here because this
Speaker 5: is just not this is not going to be good.
Speaker 5: I gotta be less moist.
Speaker 1: I think she's only kissed like five people in the
Speaker 1: history of the show. Like, she does not kiss people.
Speaker 1: Even there's like people that she has relationships with where
Speaker 1: there's like forehead kisses and like hugs and like she
Speaker 1: doesn't do a ton of making out.
Speaker 5: So she really you really got you know, saved it
Speaker 5: up for the psychopath, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 5: that's who you want to that's who you want to
Speaker 5: be making.
Speaker 2: Out of it and to beat the shit out of Stabler.
Speaker 2: I mean, so we have a running thing between us.
Speaker 2: How Benson realizes because you go, oh, me and Stabler
Speaker 2: are having sushi, and she knows that would never be
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 3: What is your sushi?
Speaker 2: Like if someone says, like if someone was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm with Noel doing this they were like, oh, he's kidnapped,
Speaker 2: we have to call nine one one.
Speaker 3: Oh, like you'd never be doing it. There's no way
Speaker 3: this is him. He is kidnapped. He would never say this.
Speaker 3: Like for me, it's like, I don't drink coffee.
Speaker 1: So if somebody called Lisa was like, oh, Kara's just
Speaker 1: out grabbing a coffee, she'd be like she's dead.
Speaker 3: I would know. You know something's happening.
Speaker 5: How do you how do you operate? I don't have
Speaker 5: that at all. I don't understand that at all. My
Speaker 5: whole life is wrong. Caffee.
Speaker 3: She likes full fat coke, that's her thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I need a burst, if I need it,
Speaker 1: if I'm really dragging, I'll do a full fat coke.
Speaker 5: You want that, You want that sugar, that sugar hit nice.
Speaker 3: She is lying.
Speaker 2: It's not only when it's dire. She does want it.
Speaker 2: You don't have to force it. Oh yeah, but I'm trying.
Speaker 2: I'm actually trying to quit it this year.
Speaker 5: Really do twenty twenty four. No more coke?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no more cokes for me. Look, it's too much.
Speaker 1: I'm just having them whatever I want now. It used
Speaker 1: to just be for a jolt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had to put a stop to it anyway,
Speaker 3: So what is yours? What is yours?
Speaker 1: Like someone your wife calls and they go, Noel's doing this,
Speaker 1: and she's like, this isn't right, you know.
Speaker 5: Like you know, the first thing that comes to mind
Speaker 5: is probably like watching any sporting event. Oh yeah, someone
Speaker 5: was like, Noel's I'm with Noel. We're watching the Super Bowls.
Speaker 5: Be like is he tied up? Like what's what's going on?
Speaker 5: What's happening. Not that I don't like sports. I like sports,
Speaker 5: I just don't like watching them very much. I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't really understand it.
Speaker 3: I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I that would actually probably be one of mine too,
Speaker 1: Like Kara's just watching a hockey game, like I'm dead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, playing them playing football hockey great, but watching Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: You like a good time.
Speaker 2: I feel like if there was a gathering and someone
Speaker 2: was like, she's at the hockey party, I'd be like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: if there's a part.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, if there is. Yeah. It would more just
Speaker 5: be like if if me and a lone friend, you know,
Speaker 5: if someone called my lone friend and you know, you
Speaker 5: were trying to suss out if I was kidnapped, they.
Speaker 3: Probably get yeah, yeah, it would be. I have a
Speaker 3: question and it is was bing bang Bong in the
Speaker 3: script or did you improvise that?
Speaker 5: No, that was in the script. That was in the script.
Speaker 5: That's yeah. That was the first flag, like, oh he's irritating. Okay,
Speaker 5: he's going to be this guy all right?
Speaker 4: Cool? Cool.
Speaker 1: If we ever post about you or anything or like
Speaker 1: do any like or talk about you, people always write.
Speaker 3: Bing bang bong in the comments. It's like a very
Speaker 3: big it's a very big couchphrase for you.
Speaker 2: Well, and then you are very beloved because we did
Speaker 2: make when we first started a fun meme with Stucky
Speaker 2: and then people are like Stucky and then people go,
Speaker 2: he is so talented, Nola is an incredible actor. How
Speaker 2: people really come into and we're like, yeah, we know
Speaker 2: they can separate you from the Stucky.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yeah yeah, well again, if my goal is
Speaker 5: to irritate done, yeah yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: It all high energy, like no sympathy or empathy for
Speaker 2: the people. Yeah, it's a real wild and shady.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, anybody you know in real
Speaker 1: life that you kind of drew from to do your
Speaker 1: like little Stucky annoyances and mannerisms you got like a
Speaker 1: cousin that's got a stucky vibe or anything.
Speaker 5: No, not really, No, it was more just like the
Speaker 5: writing of the character was really he's very much on
Speaker 5: the page, like he's very kind of when you're reading,
Speaker 5: you're kind of like, oh, okay, this is just like
Speaker 5: overly enthusiastic, kind of like new guy. But then when
Speaker 5: you put that into the context like not even necessarily
Speaker 5: super creepy, but you put it in the context of
Speaker 5: detective work in New York or you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: it just becomes way more kind of like you shouldn't
Speaker 5: be this casual about that, Like you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: Like it's sort of like, yeah, I get that you're
Speaker 5: eager and that kind of thing, but like it's it's
Speaker 5: just not there's a there's a there's a concerning lack
Speaker 5: of social awareness there.
Speaker 1: You're going to like this episode Crush, he's looking at
Speaker 1: a picture of like a fifteen year old.
Speaker 3: A girl and he's like she's smoking hot, Like I don't.
Speaker 5: Even really, I didn't even remember that. Oh yeah, man,
Speaker 5: red flags all over for this guy.
Speaker 2: Well, because Kragan's usually chill. Dan Floriic and he even
Speaker 2: got in your face. I feel like he shoves you
Speaker 2: in Zebra's or something where he's like get.
Speaker 3: Out of here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he or I was welcome pretty quickly, you know.
Speaker 2: But also your episodes are so iconic, like such cool
Speaker 2: guest stars Hillary Duff, you got Carol Burnett, Judith Lee,
Speaker 2: like so many cool actors.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I actually I was listening to the I don't
Speaker 5: know if you've released it yet or not, but the
Speaker 5: Matthew Lillard interview did oh we had Oh yeah, that
Speaker 5: was so funny because I was, again eighty four. I
Speaker 5: was again like my teen years were right when Scream
Speaker 5: kind of came out and all that. That was like
Speaker 5: a big kind of I was part of that. Oh man,
Speaker 5: this movie is so cool and he was so good
Speaker 5: at it. And I remember going to One of my
Speaker 5: first memories of doing the SVU episodes was going to
Speaker 5: I think I met the director, the writer, or maybe
Speaker 5: the actors. They took me to one of the sets
Speaker 5: and it was like this nice apartment somewhere in Manhattan,
Speaker 5: and I remember walking in and you know, it's a
Speaker 5: they're on a break or whatever, and I just remember, like,
Speaker 5: Matthew Lillard is like sitting on the floor in the
Speaker 5: kitchen like in between scenes, and like you know, it
Speaker 5: was just like a weird, surreal kind of like oh
Speaker 5: that's oh man, there's Matthew Lillard. That's really cool. He
Speaker 5: was very friendly and it was great.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. And Hillary Duff.
Speaker 1: I think that was your first episode, right, is that
Speaker 1: the first Valerie selfish?
Speaker 3: Oh? Vallerin is the first one where we meet Stucky.
Speaker 2: I think it's because he goes in he's like, this happened,
Speaker 2: this happened, this happened, and this happened. And then they're like,
Speaker 2: well actually or maybe now.
Speaker 5: The window the windows? Is that the window scene? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't actually know that I met Hillary Duff.
Speaker 3: Oh too bad.
Speaker 5: No, I must have. I must have.
Speaker 3: The Hillary Duff one is when like you're digging for
Speaker 3: a baby and then you're just like you just are
Speaker 3: like I think I got something lacking. This is more
Speaker 3: archaeological stuck.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, he's come away from the tr X bones.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 5: That guy just no chill.
Speaker 3: So Matthew Lillard was nice. You guys had some moments.
Speaker 5: He was great. I mean it was really it was
Speaker 5: a quick, little interaction. But I just remember he was
Speaker 5: very very kind and very kind of like, you know,
Speaker 5: his sort of enthusiastic self, you know, from from what
Speaker 5: I could tell, Scream is so good.
Speaker 3: That was that was exciting.
Speaker 2: Now you're in a lot of fandoms like s View
Speaker 2: is Shameless such a strong group? Twilight Final Destination? What
Speaker 2: are people coming? Can you tell what people are when
Speaker 2: they come up to you? Are you getting recognized? Has
Speaker 2: anyone that yelled at you for being stucky on the
Speaker 2: street or is it mostly shameless?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it's because I've done I've
Speaker 5: done some other stuff in New York. I did both
Speaker 5: of the the not the most recent Turtle movie, but
Speaker 5: the motion Capture and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movies. I
Speaker 5: was one of the Turtles, and so I like got
Speaker 5: to spend a lot of time in New York over
Speaker 5: two different summers, which was awesome. But yeah, I got
Speaker 5: a lot of like going into Cobye shops, I'd get
Speaker 5: a like hey, bing bang bom, like like oh yeah,
Speaker 5: yeah cool. But for the most part, for the most
Speaker 5: part of Shameless, for the most part, very much Shameless
Speaker 5: seems to a thing that like, you know, people are
Speaker 5: usually either recognizing me outright or giving me the side
Speaker 5: I from, like, I know you from somewhere, who are you?
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 5: I know your face kind of thing, and then it.
Speaker 3: Comes out that it's that, I mean, a groundbreaking character.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was really fun that the right I always say,
Speaker 5: the writers on Seamless really gave him a really beautiful
Speaker 5: arc and it was such a cool thing to be
Speaker 5: a part of it. Yeah, I was very very happy
Speaker 5: how that turned out.
Speaker 3: Are you friends with me? Are you guys all connected?
Speaker 5: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean because your.
Speaker 2: Girl Shanola is killing it and watching her on Found
Speaker 2: I can't get enough. And then obviously Jeremy Allen White
Speaker 2: is like, dude, the bear is so good, Calvin Klein,
Speaker 2: Emmy of it all, it's just so fun. You're all
Speaker 2: doing great. But yeah, I love Found Founds great.
Speaker 5: Chanola's one of the loveliest people. She's just like wonderful.
Speaker 5: I don't know. There are certain people that kind of
Speaker 5: have like endless energy and are just like extra greamely
Speaker 5: caretaking and like loving with everyone they interact with, and
Speaker 5: she's one of those people. She kind of is, Yeah,
Speaker 5: pretty cool. And then Jeremy obviously is. I mean, Jeremy's
Speaker 5: so talented, He's always been super talented, and he's like
Speaker 5: just a just a really good dude, just a very
Speaker 5: good dude and a joy to work with. And it
Speaker 5: is not surprising, let's put it that way.
Speaker 2: It was such a good show. Well, he's been an
Speaker 2: s VU I forgot. Carl has been an s v O.
Speaker 2: Ginger Cameron has been on one, and the Tall One,
Speaker 2: the Kevin. Yes, have you seen any of their episodes?
Speaker 5: No, I haven't. I have seen stills of of Ethan's.
Speaker 5: He's he's a little he looks like a low murder. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know what his episode was about,
Speaker 5: but he looks like a little killer.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's born psychopath and then what is it death?
Speaker 2: Like he's brought back like he's a psychopath, but then
Speaker 2: they release him when he turns twenty one because of
Speaker 2: juvenile laws and then he kills his family and like
Speaker 2: goes nuts.
Speaker 5: Bad call, bad call, and released there.
Speaker 1: But it was cool because they had the actor when
Speaker 1: he was so young and then they brought him back
Speaker 1: like ten years later and like felling. You know, shows
Speaker 1: don't always have the ability to do that, so I
Speaker 1: thought it was that was a cool art for him.
Speaker 3: But you should watch Howie's too, because what intent.
Speaker 2: It's like a double catfish where he thinks he's meeting
Speaker 2: up with he's an famous MMA fighter. He thinks he's
Speaker 2: meeting up with someone who has a rape fantasy because
Speaker 2: someone catfished them, and then he does assault the person,
Speaker 2: but he has the text to prove and it's like
Speaker 2: kind of a wild case, but he ends up being
Speaker 2: a really good guy.
Speaker 5: I don'tkay, you know, try to help someone with a
Speaker 5: fantasy went very, very wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised the USA Network has it done like a
Speaker 1: shameless marathon for so many of you, you know, because
Speaker 1: they'll do like Orange is the New Black marathons, where
Speaker 1: like it's all the people from Orange who have done
Speaker 1: the show, and there's a lot of you shameless guys
Speaker 1: in there too.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, we had someone on I forgot his name, the
Speaker 2: flute player who's the floutest Zach McGowan.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, another really good dude. That
Speaker 5: show was really cool. Yeah. McGowan's great man that he's
Speaker 5: got the craziest voice I've ever heard. His voice is awesome.
Speaker 5: It's just like if his voice was like it's down
Speaker 5: on the floor, it's so low.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh man, Yeah, he seemed manly and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just like eat steaks and do pull ups and
Speaker 2: have beer and we're like nice.
Speaker 5: But he yeah, I remember he was when we were
Speaker 5: doing Shame a shameless episode in Chicago. We would go
Speaker 5: to Chicago like to block shoot out that exteriors on
Speaker 5: the show, and and uh and I remember it was
Speaker 5: like I think it was maybe fall time we were there,
Speaker 5: and he was he was really into like barefoot running
Speaker 5: at the time, and he would just go out there
Speaker 5: and like run maybe he had I think it was
Speaker 5: barefoot and it was just I was like, oh, oh man,
Speaker 5: you go for it. That's Chicago. That's Chicago. That's cold Chicago.
Speaker 5: I don't know about that, but you you do you?
Speaker 2: Yeah. He plays a famous floutist who gets drugged and
Speaker 2: commits a crime.
Speaker 5: All right, like a famous floutest.
Speaker 4: I like that.
Speaker 3: That's what we joke about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe Cusack did say no, but one day, one day,
Speaker 2: we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna collect.
Speaker 3: All the shameless people, like we have the Oranges the
Speaker 3: New Black People.
Speaker 5: Oh nice, there you go. So many people have been
Speaker 5: on lawn Order like you. I mean that that that
Speaker 5: must just be like an endless list.
Speaker 3: No, for sure, it is. This is so thrilling.
Speaker 2: We get to talk to really cool people where we're
Speaker 2: like very happy that we get to do this.
Speaker 3: How was it being a Ninja Turtle? You did mention?
Speaker 5: It was fun? It was super fun. I mean again,
Speaker 5: I grew up a kid of the eighties, so I
Speaker 5: grew up I was Hinja Turtles as a as a kid,
Speaker 5: and then getting to do that was Yeah, that was
Speaker 5: pretty that was pretty special.
Speaker 4: It was fun.
Speaker 5: Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: We had another guy on our podcast, Josh Pie, and
Speaker 1: he was in the one that like we watched as kids,
Speaker 1: the one with like Corey Feldman, and then oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he was actually in the outfit suit some of them
Speaker 1: it was just the voice and some of them did
Speaker 1: the voice and they were in the suit. And he
Speaker 1: said he was in the suit and they would like
Speaker 1: glue on the head every day and then they would
Speaker 1: all get so hot and they'd have to like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like we've come a long way.
Speaker 3: I think in terms of.
Speaker 5: Fathom breaks must have just been a nightmare that must
Speaker 5: have been.
Speaker 1: So bad, like the costuming and cgi and all that
Speaker 1: has come a long way. I was obviously poking around
Speaker 1: on your Instagram. I saw you a beautiful wife who's
Speaker 1: also an actor as well. Yeah she is, Ye did
Speaker 1: a little who did a part on Shameless as well,
Speaker 1: I think like for a couple of episodes.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: So we always ask.
Speaker 1: People when we interview them, like when they're married to
Speaker 1: somebody who's also in the business, like do you guys
Speaker 1: like to work together? Do you help each other with
Speaker 1: auditions and stuff, or do you kind of try to
Speaker 1: keep it okay?
Speaker 5: Yes, Leila is the only reason I actually have I
Speaker 5: booked Shameless funny enough, like she were really we're yeah,
Speaker 5: we're each other, She's we were each other's coaches, and
Speaker 5: you know, so every every time you see me or
Speaker 5: her on anything where you know the other person's pretty
Speaker 5: intricately involved. I had an audition for Shameless, and I
Speaker 5: was working on a guest star on Light to Me,
Speaker 5: and I was doing an episode on that and I
Speaker 5: couldn't make the I had a test with John Wells.
Speaker 5: They wanted to bring me in for a test and
Speaker 5: for the character, and I couldn't make it because I
Speaker 5: was working, and so Layla basically was like, well, we
Speaker 5: need to do a tape. This was a long long
Speaker 5: time ago, this was before tapes were sort of like
Speaker 5: a norm, And I had to get out like my
Speaker 5: little like a little flip camera kind of thing and
Speaker 5: set it up. And we did the test sides, but
Speaker 5: we did them in three different ways to kind of
Speaker 5: like show that I was directable. Like it was a
Speaker 5: scale like crazy like light Lightnikey to like all the
Speaker 5: way crazy monkey, and we just did like multiples and
Speaker 5: she she got me to do that and as a result,
Speaker 5: I ended up booking the booking the job. So yeah,
Speaker 5: she's definitely I like working with.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah that's so cool.
Speaker 2: While you were talking about Crazy, the actress who played
Speaker 2: your sister's also been on Shameless and she is actually
Speaker 2: the birth mother of Mursco Hargate say like Benson's adopted
Speaker 2: son in the series.
Speaker 3: Really she has a very tragic she's Ellie Porter Caro. Oh. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm like, who are we talking about. She's your sister
Speaker 3: on the show on Shame list at right?
Speaker 5: Gotcha?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they just keep popping up. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 5: No, it's all good. I get confused myself because I
Speaker 5: did I did Law and Order, but I also did
Speaker 5: a guest spot on Criminal Intent as well, So yeah,
Speaker 5: it's a little you know, there's there's lots of these shows.
Speaker 5: There's so many of them.
Speaker 3: What did you do in Criminal Intent?
Speaker 5: Who are you the son of a a rock star? Basically?
Speaker 5: And the episode is me finding out that I'm the
Speaker 5: son of this rock star. The actor was Michael Massey,
Speaker 5: I think, and lovely guy, and he kind of plays
Speaker 5: like a you know, like an Aerosmith typer, like a
Speaker 5: Mick Jagger type kind of character.
Speaker 1: And I was just gonna say it sounds like liv
Speaker 1: Tyler finding out later in life that she was Stephen
Speaker 1: Tyler's yes daughter.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 5: It's that kind of a thing. But yeah, that was
Speaker 5: that was I think that was my first I think
Speaker 5: I did that before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think according to your IMDb that was
Speaker 1: a little bit before.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Did casting just know you and bring you in for
Speaker 3: Stucky or did you audition for Stucky?
Speaker 5: I did not audition for Stucky. That was an would
Speaker 5: offer only stuck you offer, Yeah, which was really cool.
Speaker 5: I think that was like my first offer as I
Speaker 5: have this is not that I'm down.
Speaker 1: I like this, this makes me have Yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: in retrospect, we should have known something was going to
Speaker 1: go down with you because no csu text. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've they've got they do a little joke here and there,
Speaker 1: but we don't really they don't have much of a personality.
Speaker 1: They're kind of just there to feed information into the scene.
Speaker 1: And then in comes this guy who's got like this
Speaker 1: wild character and it was like, it's just Zebras. I
Speaker 1: would say is one of the top ten most insane
Speaker 1: episodes of the five hundred plus episodes of that show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean like, do you remember when you got
Speaker 3: the script for that, were you like what?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I kind of knew. I mean like again,
Speaker 5: you know, any anytime you have a character saying, hey,
Speaker 5: check out this hilarious dead baby I found is you
Speaker 5: know you're sort of like, well, maybe you know something
Speaker 5: something's off with this dude. But yeah, when I saw
Speaker 5: that the depth that he goes to, he's at them
Speaker 5: murdering judges or trying to murder judges, and like he's yeah,
Speaker 5: he goes full on dexter on everybody. And that definitely
Speaker 5: was like I was like this is I don't think
Speaker 5: I've seen anything even remotely close to this as an
Speaker 5: arc on S on any Law and Order, which is
Speaker 5: which is kind of cool.
Speaker 1: And you try to murder Judith Light, who's like an
Speaker 1: iconic judge and you know, is a big like a
Speaker 1: recurring person on SVU and uh, kind of a ballbuster.
Speaker 3: I mean she because she humiliates you.
Speaker 5: He's trying to take apart the universe.
Speaker 3: I was getting humiliated by Judith Light. Was that fun?
Speaker 5: Well, getting basically his whole his whole arc is just
Speaker 5: getting humiliated over and over again by basically everybody interacts with, right,
Speaker 5: So it's kind of like, all right, this is just
Speaker 5: another person. Fine, I guess I'll start killing people, you.
Speaker 3: Know, perfect. Hopefully this isn't a weird question.
Speaker 2: We stalk the IMDb, we do the research, and some
Speaker 2: of your early credits from Freddy Got Fingered and a
Speaker 2: guy thing you were pimply manager and Acne face team.
Speaker 3: What the hell?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean I was going through I was
Speaker 5: going through a part of my life.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: No, that's the worst is that they couldn't give you
Speaker 3: a name.
Speaker 5: Geez No, that was from my Vancouver days and so
Speaker 5: you know, it's a lot of the a lot frequently,
Speaker 5: not always, but frequently, you know, American show comes, and
Speaker 5: a lot more of the kind of the co stars
Speaker 5: and like the supporting characters are are are going to
Speaker 5: be Vancouver based and so yeah, those were some of
Speaker 5: my some of my earlier credits. I think in one
Speaker 5: of them, I think a guy thing. I think they
Speaker 5: put fake pimples on me. I think at that point,
Speaker 5: which was also I was in the middle of my
Speaker 5: teen years and just kind of like trying to get
Speaker 5: away from the pimple things like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: no no, we're gonna lean in, We're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 5: have make up professionally put more pimples on you. Like
Speaker 5: that's the glamor, the glamor I was looking for.
Speaker 2: You don't really think about the the tribulations of being
Speaker 2: a teen actor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you think about the skin. Well, your skin looks incredible, So.
Speaker 5: It's improved somewhat since Freddy got fingered and being acne
Speaker 5: manager or whatever.
Speaker 3: Guy you're on the other side of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I made it.
Speaker 2: What was the moment where you knew you had to
Speaker 2: move to La or the States? How long were you
Speaker 2: acting in Canada.
Speaker 5: I had my first I had my fourteenth birthday on
Speaker 5: my first job. So I've been doing it since I was,
Speaker 5: you know, slightly before fourteen. And my mom is American,
Speaker 5: She's from Ohio, and so basically I sort of figured
Speaker 5: I didn't. It wasn't like a conscious decision I like
Speaker 5: I have to go now. It was more just sort
Speaker 5: of like, okay, well, there's there's a fairly specific This
Speaker 5: isn't always the case, but sometimes there's a ceiling in
Speaker 5: Canada that is hard to kind of get through. And
Speaker 5: I kind of made the decision that because I didn't
Speaker 5: have any paperwork problems, I would at least come down
Speaker 5: to la and like see what happened. And I knew
Speaker 5: a lot of very talented Canadian actors that were coming
Speaker 5: down as well. So I moved down here with a
Speaker 5: handful of people that I knew from Vancouver, and yeah,
Speaker 5: just sort of I ended up, you know, I had
Speaker 5: I ran out of money and I had to go
Speaker 5: back to Vancouver to kind of make more money and
Speaker 5: then I would come back here. And I did that.
Speaker 5: I did that that kind of that back and forth
Speaker 5: probably three times before something was stuck here and then yeah,
Speaker 5: then then it was just kind of I think the
Speaker 5: first thing was The Riches, the FX Show with Eddie
Speaker 5: iSER Driver, and yeah, that that was the first time
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, I get to I get to stay,
Speaker 5: I can I can be here for a little bit,
Speaker 5: and you know, it sort of went from there. Knock
Speaker 5: what it's been. It's been. It's been a good run.
Speaker 3: Yeah, The Riches was great. I watched that back in
Speaker 3: the back when it was on. I loved that.
Speaker 2: It was fun and you probably get to breathe, like, fuck,
Speaker 2: I'm a series regular.
Speaker 3: I can like chill for a moment in time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit. I have somewhat of a for
Speaker 5: an incredibly unstructured, you know, career path that sort of
Speaker 5: allows a little bit of kind of like oh no,
Speaker 5: you have like a ninety five minute like that. You
Speaker 5: have like a good job, I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so nice. You didn't have to do the paperwork.
Speaker 2: So many Canadian performers, I know, it's really like so
Speaker 2: much paperwork, so much cash, so many years.
Speaker 3: So that's fucking awesome.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it's a big bureaucratic, you know process to
Speaker 5: get Thursday. Yeah, I'm a greatful I didn't have to
Speaker 5: do that one.
Speaker 2: And have you gone back to Vancouver on like a
Speaker 2: job you book in the US ever to like film.
Speaker 5: Yeah, only twice. I have only booked two jobs. They
Speaker 5: did a month of the Twilight movies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, those were all up there, right, yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, the bulk of it was actually Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 3: It takes place in like Seattle or Washington State, right, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yes, I think I think we were in bat Us
Speaker 5: because it was especially the movie, the one that I
Speaker 5: was on. The final too. They shot as one movie
Speaker 5: and it was mostly soundstage. There was just like it
Speaker 5: was like even even that whole I don't know if
Speaker 5: you either you're familiar with the movies, but there's a
Speaker 5: huge snow battle sequence at the end of the whole
Speaker 5: of the whole series, and that whole field was in
Speaker 5: a sound stage with Fate snow for a month.
Speaker 3: In Lousu Woa in Louisiana. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, last
Speaker 3: place I would expect interesting.
Speaker 5: But then but then I went back to Vancouver for
Speaker 5: like a few I think I had like three days
Speaker 5: and I got to hang out there for a few weeks,
Speaker 5: which was which is always fun.
Speaker 3: Well, Yeah. What's that hotel we stayed in it.
Speaker 2: What's the like famous hotel where all the actors stay,
Speaker 2: the Sutton Place.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I have been there as well.
Speaker 2: It's so cool anytime I'm there that I feel like there,
Speaker 2: I'm always looking for actors, like I want to see something.
Speaker 5: You go out to the bar, you go down to
Speaker 5: the bar, You're going to rend it somebody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good little I like my city. Vancouver's fun.
Speaker 5: Vancouver's a good little, good little, good little town.
Speaker 1: I had a great brunch there. Yeah, it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: We wanted to say. I wanted to stay there longer.
Speaker 2: Anything you are working on now that you are excited about, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I want to know.
Speaker 3: What's the current project.
Speaker 5: I just got done doing my first little comedy horror
Speaker 5: movie called Cognitive, which is really fun. It's going to
Speaker 5: be a totally insane movie, but it's gonna be a
Speaker 5: lot It's gonna be very a lot of laughs, a
Speaker 5: lot of kind of craziness, which is blood of Blood.
Speaker 3: Oh cool. Yeah, that's fun. Keep an eye out for that.
Speaker 2: I love comedy horror so much and I'm so glad
Speaker 2: people are making it.
Speaker 3: It's having a real moment.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's good. It's a good comble of a murder
Speaker 5: and laughter. You know, again back to stuff. It's very stucky.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, very stucky, very stuffy. Did you meet Neil
Speaker 2: Bear on set, like I mean the showrunner? No, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I did not, because we miss him.
Speaker 3: In the humor that he put in those earlier seasons.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like today there would not be a Stucky
Speaker 1: on the show. Like the current seasons, they would never
Speaker 1: have a Stucky, you know, like they allowed for a
Speaker 1: smidge of campiness.
Speaker 3: I feel in the earlier seasons they've.
Speaker 5: Gone a little they've gone a little more more dark.
Speaker 5: I think everything's gone a little more dark.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 5: It feels like the tone of most stuff is a
Speaker 5: little more, a little more hardcore.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you have any other like little memories of shooting
Speaker 1: these episodes, any any interactions with iced tea, anything, any
Speaker 1: tea you want to spill like tell us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have.
Speaker 5: I have a couple of a couple of good memories.
Speaker 5: Uh so the big scene, that big final scene, I
Speaker 5: got to you know, I'm very excited to be part
Speaker 5: of this thing. I'm all all amped up to do
Speaker 5: my big kind of you know, crazy scene, and I
Speaker 5: get there in the morning and I get pulled into
Speaker 5: with with Marushka and Maloney. We all get taken into
Speaker 5: this room with the writer of the director and they
Speaker 5: want to like go over some rewrites and they end
Speaker 5: up doing you know, pretty some pretty significant rewrites on
Speaker 5: the morning, which had not happened before, and I think
Speaker 5: they just wanted to make sure because it's such a
Speaker 5: kind of climactic scene that it really kind of hit
Speaker 5: the way they wanted it to. I just remember needing
Speaker 5: to like go back to my room and like relearn
Speaker 5: like maybe a third of it like before I went
Speaker 5: out and did it, which was definitely a little anxiety inducing.
Speaker 5: But No, the main thing that I remember from that
Speaker 5: scene is that when I have Stabler like tied up right,
Speaker 5: he's got stable tied. Maloney's in the chair and I
Speaker 5: have to I have to like at them. There's a
Speaker 5: part where I have to stab him. And yeah, I
Speaker 5: remember like they were going over it with me how
Speaker 5: they were going to do it and how they had
Speaker 5: figured out they were going to do it. Is they
Speaker 5: were gonna put like a like a wood plant like
Speaker 5: a wood plank under his shirt and they were going
Speaker 5: to put a blood patch, like a blood pack on
Speaker 5: the wood, and I would just stab it and you know,
Speaker 5: do a little twisty, get some get some blood coming
Speaker 5: out through the shirt. And I was like, Okay, great,
Speaker 5: this sounds great. And when I when they actually rank
Speaker 5: it all up and they get they get it all ready,
Speaker 5: it's you know, it's a whole plank of wood under
Speaker 5: his shirt that you can't see, but they put the
Speaker 5: blood pack like right at the corner, like right on
Speaker 5: the corner of this of this plank, and there's probably like,
Speaker 5: you know, half an inch on on either side of
Speaker 5: this thing. So now I'm given like a real knife
Speaker 5: and I'm in the middle of this heated moment and
Speaker 5: I'm just sitting there going like, oh man, please don't
Speaker 5: let me actually stab plea. Don't let me actually stab
Speaker 5: this actor. Please please. And you know I had to
Speaker 5: aim at you know, a little an inch ether direction
Speaker 5: it would have gone into his shoulder. But but yeah,
Speaker 5: it worked out. You know, it all went all well.
Speaker 5: But that was that was definitely like an anxiety inducing moment.
Speaker 3: That seems such a weird choice for them, Like why
Speaker 3: put it on the corner.
Speaker 5: Why I think it was above his kind of heart.
Speaker 3: Because you have to pop the thing, so it has
Speaker 3: to be a knife.
Speaker 2: Oh my, yeah it was.
Speaker 5: It was. And it wasn't like it wasn't like they
Speaker 5: had they had like a dull down one. But it's
Speaker 5: still knife, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was.
Speaker 5: It was still it was pointy. It was pointy enough
Speaker 5: to go in, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So it was and he's like the number one on
Speaker 3: the call sheet. You don't want to stab the star?
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly, this is real. Yeah, this is you know,
Speaker 5: this is however many fifteen years ago or whatever, and
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh man, I don't want to stab Christopher Maloney.
Speaker 5: I really don't want to stab Christopher Maloney. I feel
Speaker 5: like that would not go well at all.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Like in the same shoot, you have to like kiss
Speaker 1: one star of the show stab the other star of
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 3: That must have been a stressful work week.
Speaker 5: It was. It was a day. It was a big day.
Speaker 3: But you know that's what I signed up for or day. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they probably happened on the same day.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is just like a like a me being
Speaker 5: an idiot story. But but Marishki is really lovely. Right,
Speaker 5: She's a very very warm person. I'm sure everyone else
Speaker 5: that you've interviewed has kind of said the same thing.
Speaker 5: Very professional, very inclusive. And so she runs a charity
Speaker 5: for it might be sex workers.
Speaker 3: It's a Joyful Heart Foundation.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes, and she does everything.
Speaker 2: They do a lot of stuff they do like testing
Speaker 2: of rape kits, they do victim services, I think, and
Speaker 2: what's that when you tell people about stuff advocacy?
Speaker 5: Yes, so you know, she invited me like this then
Speaker 5: all the recurring you know, actor guy, she invited me
Speaker 5: to they were having one of their big charity events.
Speaker 5: And as I said, this was I think my second
Speaker 5: time ever in New York, and I just wasn't This
Speaker 5: was before kind of like Google Maps was really much
Speaker 5: of a thing, and and I just sort of like
Speaker 5: she invited me, and I was like, Okay, should I
Speaker 5: should go? This is lovely? What a nice thing I want?
Speaker 5: It sounds like a cool charity, Like let me go
Speaker 5: check this out. And I did that thing where I
Speaker 5: was like, oh, well, you know, like I looked at
Speaker 5: the address and kind of figured out where I was,
Speaker 5: and I had that thought like that's not that far.
Speaker 5: I'll just walk. I'm gonna walk. And so I have
Speaker 5: like this night, and I put on my suit and
Speaker 5: I like go out. You know, I'm walking, and about
Speaker 5: two thirds of the way there, much longer than I anticipate.
Speaker 5: I'm in this area of Manhattan where there's just no cars.
Speaker 5: There's no like, there's no traffic, there's no there's like
Speaker 5: those pockets of just emptiness at night, especially on like
Speaker 5: a weekday, and I'm walking through one of those, and
Speaker 5: it just starts too poor. It just starts too pooring,
Speaker 5: oh no, and I can't. I can't find a taxi
Speaker 5: and I can't, so I just start like I just
Speaker 5: keep walking because I'm almost there. I'm like, well, you know,
Speaker 5: maybe it's not too bad. And I get there and
Speaker 5: I am just like I look like I stepped out
Speaker 5: of a shower in my suit, like my shirt see through,
Speaker 5: like I'm a mess. And I remember going up to
Speaker 5: the security guard, just kind of walking kind of up
Speaker 5: to the security guard, and the security guard just like
Speaker 5: look at me just once, just like give me a
Speaker 5: once up and down and just being like no, man, no, no,
Speaker 5: you don't want to come in here. And I was
Speaker 5: looking at myself and like, yeah, no, you're right, I
Speaker 5: don't know, so I just turned around and got a
Speaker 5: cab home. It's not a great end of the story,
Speaker 5: but it was pretty funny, kind of like, all right,
Speaker 5: this is this was a poorly planned moment by Noel
Speaker 5: oh Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how Stuck. You would have shown up. Stucky
Speaker 1: would have walked in and been like, sorry, liv got
Speaker 1: caught in a rainstorm and like high fived everyone.
Speaker 5: Shake himself off like a dog, and like, you know,
Speaker 5: get water everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. Oh my gosh, this has
Speaker 1: been amazing. Thank you so much for talking to us
Speaker 1: a dream.
Speaker 5: Thank you, yeah, of course, yeah, thank you for actually
Speaker 5: making this happen. I'm sorry it took so long. When
Speaker 5: I'm glad we finally got it.
Speaker 2: We were determined you're a busy guy. We totally get it. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: that was my god. I love conversation. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: he was sweet.
Speaker 1: We waited and waited and we finally got him. And
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we finally talked to Stucky.
Speaker 3: Like what a thrill? What a thrill?
Speaker 2: And I do love that people do say bing bang
Speaker 2: bong to his face every day of his life and
Speaker 2: he needs I like that.
Speaker 1: Don't be scared to do it if you see him,
Speaker 1: I mean, don't don't go up to him when he's
Speaker 1: like in a serious conversation with someone. But if you
Speaker 1: have the opportunity presents itself, please do bing bang bong him.
Speaker 1: Let's get into I don't know, let's get into our
Speaker 1: post mortem. I don't know how we uh talk in
Speaker 1: these kind of cases really boil our blood the most.
Speaker 1: Where people in positions that are supposed to be like
Speaker 1: upholding the rules, you know, fighting for justice, doing the
Speaker 1: right thing, are just fucking corrupt assholes that want money
Speaker 1: and power and yes, sociopaths.
Speaker 2: It's really wild that these people like ruined thousands of
Speaker 2: children's lives without a care in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, nothing, like I've never been so happy with the
Speaker 2: jail sentence in my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because the thing is is like, sure, there's judges taking
Speaker 1: kickbacks for like real estate development version shit like that. Okay,
Speaker 1: Like I guess, I mean fuck those guys too. I'm
Speaker 1: sure ultimately that trickles down and hurts people. But this
Speaker 1: is like you're actively just looking children in the eye
Speaker 1: and being like I'm going to ruin your life. It
Speaker 1: is sociopathic. It's really really sad and fucked up.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would love to have this type of money,
Speaker 2: so I'm not saying it like that, but that's it's
Speaker 2: not even that much money. Yeah, two point eight million
Speaker 2: dollars for thousands of kids, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, you can buy maybe a two bedroom in LA,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like it is a lot
Speaker 3: of money.
Speaker 2: I think all of our lives would change with two
Speaker 2: point eight million dollars. But it's not a deal with
Speaker 2: the devil kind of money that you're doing. You know,
Speaker 2: I understand ruining a few kids' lives for a hundred mil,
Speaker 2: But like, what are we talking about here?
Speaker 3: Shutting down facilities?
Speaker 2: I mean and the people that knew and we should
Speaker 2: just not give judge that much power, is what I'm learning.
Speaker 2: I'm just I think I'm against lifetime appointments and judges
Speaker 2: and any of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is like crazy, I just did vote for
Speaker 1: our judges here in LA. And I mean I go
Speaker 1: off of these progressive groups. I think most people probably
Speaker 1: a skip that part. Like I don't think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are heavily invested into judge races and we
Speaker 1: probably should be. Yeah, I mean, because they are elected
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases, unless it's you know, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump just putting in whoever the fuck he wants.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm threatening bloodshed. I mean, I just don't
Speaker 2: know how people are not more terrified. But maybe they're
Speaker 2: disassociating like a lot of us.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, I also keep reading in my newsletter that Biden
Speaker 1: has a ton ton of money for this campaign, and
Speaker 1: Trump's like kind of being a little bit more tight
Speaker 1: lipped about how much money he's making. So I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if he's like not, I have to think some of
Speaker 1: these MAGA people are like, I'm not paying for your
Speaker 1: lawyer bills, Like, even though I would vote for you
Speaker 1: or whatever, I'm not paying for your fucking Stormy Daniels one,
Speaker 1: your January sixth one, your Egen Carol one, I'm not
Speaker 1: paying for your lawyer bills.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't trust.
Speaker 2: I just I feel if you're still thinking about Trump,
Speaker 2: you're not smart enough to understand where what your money
Speaker 2: is going to.
Speaker 3: I know, like, what if you're still on his side?
Speaker 2: I don't know of giving money for the Stormy Daniels case,
Speaker 2: is the straw that breaks the camel's back, Like I
Speaker 2: just I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, who knows. I think he's lost people. I
Speaker 1: do think he's lost people, but who knows. Of course,
Speaker 1: there's also a bunch of kids who have become eighteen
Speaker 1: since the last election and probably like him because of
Speaker 1: their parents or whatever their values. Yes, but I heard
Speaker 1: a lot of gen Z like are actually the other way,
Speaker 1: Like they've lost hope. They don't want to go anywhere,
Speaker 1: they don't do anything, they don't want to vote, they
Speaker 1: don't trust anyone, and that's that. Like, I think gen
Speaker 1: Z is quite splintered because I think of the children
Speaker 1: that are like fighting for gun control and out there
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, care about the environment, Like I that
Speaker 1: is what my idea of gen Z is, But I
Speaker 1: guess it's not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who knows. I hope they vote.
Speaker 1: We gotta get we gotta We're gonna be postcarding for
Speaker 1: gen Z. We're gonna be like sending gen Z postcards
Speaker 1: out being like please get out of bed, put down
Speaker 1: TikTok and go vote, please please please please. I mean
Speaker 1: TikTok might be fully banned me. I mean, let's talk
Speaker 1: about that next week. For now, let's get into our
Speaker 1: What would Sister Peg Do? This is our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we direct you towards an organization, blog, post, documentary,
Speaker 1: podcast episode, something that gives you more info about what
Speaker 1: we talked about today. And this week we wanted to
Speaker 1: highlight the twenty thirteen documentary Kids for Cash, which is
Speaker 1: like the scandal that this was. This episode was based
Speaker 1: on that Lisa did her research on. The description of
Speaker 1: the movie is three thousand Kids, one Judge, millions of dollars.
Speaker 1: It's a doc that reveals the untold stories of a
Speaker 1: judicial scandal that rocked America and the chilling aftermath of
Speaker 1: the lives destroyed in the process. And you can watch
Speaker 1: to learn more about what we talked about today and
Speaker 1: get an in depth look at the case that we covered.
Speaker 1: You can rent it or buy it on Amazon or Apple.
Speaker 1: It's a you know, it's only a three ninety nine,
Speaker 1: so if you want to learn more about it, give
Speaker 1: it a rent, give it a watch, and that we'll
Speaker 1: be posted in our stories the day that the episode
Speaker 1: comes out and saved in our what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: Highlight on our Instagram at That's Messed Up pod, which
Speaker 1: I hope you're following for time in Memoriam, It'll be
Speaker 1: there forever.
Speaker 2: And next week we will be doing missing pieces from
Speaker 2: season thirteen, episode five, Get Hip with It Babies, See
Speaker 2: you soon. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
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Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our mixer John
Speaker 2: Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry
Speaker 2: Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for
Speaker 2: our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dun Dun