WEBVTT - Reflections 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:12.760 Borders have been created by men, and borders are very cruel. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.760 As I've mentioned before, partition is something that isn't part 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.919 of the past. It very much lives in our present 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:26.400 and will certainly dictate our future. For our last episode, 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.639 I wanted to explore this idea even further with our guests. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.320 One is an author and journalist who physically goes to 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:38.200 very remote border areas. The others use art to transcend 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.400 the physical barriers between India and Pakistan. For the past 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.839 several weeks, you've heard an array of stories across generations 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.800 about partition. But what do we do with all these conversations. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.320 There are many current examples across the globe where we 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.920 can put this knowledge into action and attempt to make 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.920 the world a little bit better. From I Radio, I'm 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.880 Nahasis and this is Partition, a podcast that will take 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:26.319 a closer look into this often forgotten part of history. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.000 The voice you heard at the beginning is from journalists 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.320 and author A Lungeon of Bomac. She recently wrote an 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.720 article for National Geographic about little villages along the India 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.280 Pakistan border and their everyday physical struggles caused by this 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:49.840 arbitrarily drawn line. In our article, she writes the following. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:58.280 Along India's international border with Pakistan, southern hamlets on the 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:03.440 Ruby River rely on scattered lifelines for survival, a floating 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.600 bridge that has to be dismantled for four months every 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.880 year during months in season, A lone boat in the monsoons, 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:17.800 a couple of empathetic boatmen. Around thirty people live in 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.519 the cluster of seven villages known as Magora but Then, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:31.200 which include Thor Lascian, Rujport, Ceba, Baril, Caglee, Mami, Chakranga 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.920 and Goodgard. On one side, the land is fenced by 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.440 the Revie, a fierce river that separates it from the 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:44.640 Indian mainland. On the other, miles of heavily guarded barbed 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:53.600 wire and steel mesh fence partition it from Pakistan. I 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.799 have always specialized in telling stories of the human condition, 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.120 so you know, it was a very hot story to 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:06.359 cover because that area is really remote. There is literally 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.120 just one boat to you know, like crossover, and that 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:16.359 also depends on how high the river is flowing. When 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.520 Alanina was approached by the magazine, she wasn't sure if 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.679 she was up for the job. She had just done 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.440 a difficult story about vaccinations in rural areas. She was 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.640 recovering from a third bout of COVID nineteen and she 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.600 was doing promotions for her book Lies. Our mothers told 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:38.280 us she was swamped at the end of it all. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:44.760 The story was so gripping, you know, seventy five years 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:49.400 after independence, that you know, this was still the India, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.520 you know, one of the Indians, you know, that was 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:57.080 still existing, was so so compelling that I honestly had 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.480 to put aside all my reservations and I said, I'm going, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.000 you know, I mean, this is not a story that 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.200 I cannot not tell, you know, this is a story 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:10.360 I have to tell. She mentioned that although the area 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.400 she was visiting was a non confrontational border, she still 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.440 faced a lot of issues were trying to get in 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.680 even then because of the mere fact that this was 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.960 the India Pakistan border. It was very, very difficult getting permission, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.000 to be honest with you, We were running against the 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.640 clock because the bridge was going to be dismantled, and 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.760 first we wanted to be there, you know, when the 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.080 bridge was being dismantled, but we didn't get the permission 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.159 for that. After I think, you know, two or three 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.200 weeks of struggling to get permission, we thought that this 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.560 was not happening because once you know, monsoon started in earnest, 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.719 then you know the river will flow and there was 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.279 no point in going because we would not be able 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.720 to cross. We could still do a story, but I 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.520 wouldn't do justice, you know, to the lives the people 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.599 in those on Clive's lead, because you know, unless you 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:08.640 experience what the experience, even though you know you're experiencing it, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.160 maybe you're like for a couple of days, three days, 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.600 four days, you know, but still you have a taste 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.239 of If this is so difficult for me for four days, 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.840 just imagine this is a life that these people live 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:27.120 every day now. Longina states in the article that life 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:32.720 has remained unchanged since partition. Many issues remain. Roads are unpaved, 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.359 primary schools are struggling, and there are no high schools 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.320 or hospitals. In her article, she describes the daily pains 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.680 residents must endure. To approach the villages from the shore. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.160 One has to carefully negotiate almost a mile of sandy 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.919 and slippery river band which turns into much when it rains, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.960 giving way to unpaved and uneven stretches leading up to 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.400 the various villages. The challenges of daily living here has 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.960 intensified with the increasing frequency of extreme weather events due 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:11.960 to climate change, especially flooding. A seventy year old farmer 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.440 Jold sing is quoted saying, we are the forgotten people. 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.120 The fear of getting caught in a crossfire between the 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.800 two countries is always present. India and Pakistan have fought 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:31.239 two full fledged wars since, as well as several minor 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:36.880 skirmishes and a limited conflict and gargo in If another 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.400 war breaks out, the residents fear they would have nowhere 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.880 to run. We could be wiped off the face of 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.040 the earth during the night and nobody would know before 0:06:48.080 --> 0:07:03.360 it's too late, Singh said. Despite running into problems with 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.080 the Indian Border Security Force while shooting footage, Landona was 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.840 able to get the story with some adjustments. She said. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.720 Planning and executing the story took a little less than 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.920 twenty days. She drove ten hours from her home in 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.600 Lily to the Punjab province. She stayed in a local 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.320 army base called Patan Court. Every morning, the crew would 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.640 set out at five am in order to reach the 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.760 river by six am, the time when the first ferry 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:37.080 departs on a good day. Sometimes, you know, we would 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.400 just go and sit there, you know, because the water 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.520 levels would be high and the boat wouldn't be you know, lying, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.640 and we would just sit there waiting, you know, along 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.800 with the passengers, you know, talking to them so or 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.160 just generally you know, just it was dropping on their conversations. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.560 It is the whole thing, you know, that community unit 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.000 just depends on each other. So it it's such a 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.560 community feeling that even if you're a new person, you've 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.680 become a part of the community immediately because that's what 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.040 they do. You know. They have so little to go 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.520 on and their life is so full of struggles that 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.480 they somehow, you know, like embrace you, you know, with 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.720 an openness that is probably not possible you know in 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.520 a city or even you know, in places you know, 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:31.520 where life is easier. Nalandina had a total of five 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.040 days to capture the experiences of these communities. She and 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.880 the team gained assistance from locals in order to interview 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.560 the residents at these sparsely populated areas. They had a 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.520 rough first day they weren't really getting the stories they 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.760 had envisioned, but on day too, she encountered a husband 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:53.280 and wife Manjeeth and Regin there waiting for about so 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.600 you know, like this couple was, you know, like they 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.880 were legs waiting to cross, and she was carrying like 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.120 this big shoot kind of a bag, you know, and 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.360 I could see that she had food in the bag. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.280 So then I just you know, like approached him. Just 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.200 you know, this was not planned or anything. I had 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.240 no idea about who the guy was or what they 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.440 were doing. I just you know, approached him out of 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.440 this this instinct, you know, like some instinct, you know. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.000 And when I was talking to him, that's when the 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.719 story just came out. So I said that, you know, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.720 are you going on the other side and he said, yes, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:29.560 we are going on the other SIP side said that 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.280 what is that you know your wife is carrying and 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.800 he said that, oh, it's food for us. So then 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.920 I was intrigued. I was like, what do you mean 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.520 you know, so do you have larned there? Right? And 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.240 he said, yeah, you know, we go across every day. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.319 We have learned there. So you know, like she has 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.400 got you know, like breakfast and lunch and my father 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.080 is on the other side, so you know, We're going 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.560 to go there the entire day, you know, work on 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.840 the fields and then you know, I mean in the evening. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:57.440 And then I said that, you know, so you do 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.080 this every day and he said, yes, we do this 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.920 every day. We you know, like he lives around twenty 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.120 kilometers away and he leaves home at around four am 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.080 every morning to come to the boat stop. I want 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:09.959 to take the boat you know, to the other side. 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.600 For me, that was the first you know, like glimpse 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.840 of the story I was going to tell that I had. 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.880 When she tagged along with this couple, another angle of 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:26.319 the story presented itself. It is a story about separation, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.680 you know, like a story about a border within a country. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.720 The people live in land that belongs to India. Part 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:36.960 of the land is you know, on the Pakistan side, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.600 but they don't live there. You know, it's like just 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.000 you know, land for cultivation. But they're still you know, 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.440 like live on Indian land. But you know, the river 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.240 Rugby is such a furious river that almost everyone I 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.080 spoke to there told me the same thing that you know, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.480 this river is like, you know, it separates us from India. 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.760 This is our border, you know for India. The order starts, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.959 you know, like from the border fences, but for us, 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.840 you know, the border starts from here. So what came 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.160 out on the second day is that you know, like 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.679 the elderly have decided to stay back because they can't 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.400 abandon the land. But you know, like they also know 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:22.080 that they're the younger generation, like not their children, but 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.760 their grandchildren. You don't have no future on that land. 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.640 That land doesn't even have a primary health care center 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.520 or anything. You know, there is like nothing there, you know, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.120 so they have what they have all done, you know, 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.440 is that you know, they all bought land on the 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.800 other side, which is you know, like the mainland Maka Patan. 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.240 So the younger generation has moved there. Their children, you know, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.480 go to school, you know, like over there, they just 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.800 you know, like come and go every day. Nol Angina 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.920 goes on to say that the people who live in 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:58.920 these small villages are lifelines for each other when the 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.160 water rises that from the mainland in the night, you know, 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.960 after seven o'clock when the boat stops back out off. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.400 So you know, even if there is a medical emergency, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.600 I mean they sometimes you know, the bass will help them, 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.840 you know, like to probably get to the mainland. But 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.400 you know, and and the boatman you know also because 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.720 he's part of the community and he feels so bad 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.120 for them. If they call him in an emergency, he'll come, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.440 you know, and despite you know it's being so dangerous 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.440 in the night, you know, to take the boat. He 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.720 is sometimes you know, he does take the boat, you know, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.160 to help you know, someone who's probably ill. So you know, 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:38.000 there's this community feeling. You know that is literally you know, 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.440 the lifeline of this community over here. And you know, 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.480 like when you get on the boat, because there is 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.440 no embankment, right so you know, like they have to 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.400 struggle to get the boat and then you know, like 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.839 the people who know wore pushing the boat, and even 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.320 the boat is steered on the one end you know, 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.000 by the boatman, but on the other end by the pass. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.800 Just so it's a very you know, like they do 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.079 it together because you know it's they all are from 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.400 the community. They have grown up. You know, this has 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.000 been the life for you know, seventy five years, hundred years, 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:14.880 you know, like as long you know, like as some 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.760 of them can remember. So you know, like there is 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.680 this community feeling because they understand that if nobody is 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.040 there for them. You know, they have to make the 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.559 best of you know, like whatever they have. That's how 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.920 you know, like it's working there, she says, when visiting 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.240 Macora Patan, you really see how this may may divide 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:40.280 affects these people. Someone came there, measured the land and 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:45.720 fenced it off. But the land they fenced off where 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:51.520 some people's livelihood. Right, they've fenced it off without you know, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.360 paying heat to the fact that there is a furious 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.440 river that flows by, that keeps on changing course, that 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.120 floods a lot, and that you know, these communities would 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.680 be totally cut off from the mainland. They created a border. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.320 They separated this community, you know, from the mainland from 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.920 the Indian mainland, and didn't even provide them with the bridge. 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:20.920 You know, a simple bridge can change the fortunes of 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.240 this community. A simple bridge. You know, if you think 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:30.240 about this five hamlets, there are people that they have lives, 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.960 they have stories, they have lived lives. They have seen 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:38.840 you know, the India Pakistan partition. They've seen India getting independent. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.000 They have had full lives. They have you know, lived, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.880 they have loved, they have lost, they have lost loved 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.800 once because they didn't have a bridge. You know, women 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.720 have died at childbirth because you know, they could not 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.080 be taken to the hospital. And these are real stories, 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.240 these are real people. Their stories should matter. Their stories 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.160 should matter all of us, but their story should matter 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.840 to our governments. In a world where we are boasting 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:11.240 off immense technological you know, like innovation and advancement. This 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.360 is the saddest story. The saddest story always belongs to 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:20.800 human beings. The residents were tired of being abandoned, so 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:25.200 they took a stand for the first time. You know, 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:29.520 they have boycotted the elections, local elections. That's a huge 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.160 thing because in India and probably in every you know, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.120 like developing nation or even developed nation. You know, policy 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.720 is determined by the vote, vote back right, and if 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.640 people are in a boycotting elections, that's a short way 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.280 to get the retention. There has been a regime change 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.320 in Punjab as well. You know, many ministers have visited 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.920 that area and promised that up bridge would be built 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.520 by the end of this year and hopefully, you know, 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.160 we would have country. You take to the push a 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.480 little bit me and saw me throughout story and hopefully 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.680 you know, like there will be a bridge, you know, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.280 by the end of the year, No Londona and I 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:40.280 are counting the days. The Pin Collective is a collaborative 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.880 art space that seeks to bring together artists of all 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.880 kinds across the border. It was founded by PhD candidate 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.840 of Nanda and Vera and filmmaker ash Revere Ora. The 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.040 name not only comes from the combination of India and Pakistan, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.760 but also the word pinned in Punjabi means neighborhood or village. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.880 In twenty thirteen, while at a college to pay competition 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.159 of the visited Pakistan and it was there that a 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:13.880 plan began to form. At the time, I don't think 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.080 I thought about the weight of that experience or how 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.560 difficult it was. But once I was there, Um, it 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.480 was strange because it felt like I was visiting home. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.480 But obviously there were many ways in which it was different. 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.440 There were all of these commonalities, whether cultural or social 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.320 or linguistic, people with whom you know, I had so 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.000 much in common. But at the same time I was 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.239 aware that I had crossed the border and that I 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.080 had traveled very far from home in a certain sense. Um, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.440 what was most striking for me, though, was that when 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.240 I returned, when I made that journey back across Vaga, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.040 I returned with all of these friendships and these new 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.760 connections that I hadn't even imagined were possible, but also 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.640 the realization that short of crossing that physical border, there 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.159 weren't very many opportunity to use for young people like 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.639 myself to connect with young people across the border. And 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.000 that sounds strange because as people who grow up on 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.560 the Internet, who grew up digually connected and savvy, the 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.520 assumption is that anybody that you want to speak to 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.199 across the world is within reach, and that's really not 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.359 true when it comes to India and Pakistan. When you 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:26.280 think about the average Indian twenty something, they're not likely 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.959 to have friends across the border, even though there are 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:34.960 so many reasons for those friendships spaces. She quickly wanted 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.560 to remedy this obstacle and create a space for like 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:43.520 minded people to join her, regardless of theographical distance on 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.359 the subcontinent. Put the next and speak and address for 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.200 what we have in common and the past that lies 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.120 behind us, as well as the possibilities that lie ahead 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.679 of us, and initially was one of the participating artists 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.679 that I was keen to work with at the very 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.720 big ning of the project. But what I quickly realized 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.480 was that we were very compatible in terms of our 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.680 working styles and that he would be wonderful advision to 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.280 the team. But also that with a project like this, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.359 more hands is always better, and the more space that 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:21.080 is for collaboration and different viewpoints, the further the project 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.560 can travel. Really, so I invited him to join and 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:30.960 very kindly agreed, And that was the stuff. Ash remembers 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.080 listening to stories from his grandmother, which not only inspired 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.080 his role in the Pin Collective, but also as a filmmaker. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.200 For me, as a storytell over, I used to spend 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:47.399 summer vacations with her growing up, and before going to sleep, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.879 she used to tell me stories of her time in 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.240 Pakistan and what should remember the bit as a man 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.920 look the story of when she worked on foot from 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.680 Pakistan to India, when the when the partisher happened, and 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.280 sort of the encounters she faced on the journey to 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.760 India as well as what it was like to finding India. 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.840 And she went on and on, and I with the 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.879 perfect audience for it. So I think those stories in 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.000 particular inspired my interest in a lot of the work 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.640 that ended up doing with the collective as well as 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.440 UH in the field of documentary. General or of my 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.560 work personally tries to extore the idea of home and 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.960 belong in separation. I grew up listening to all of 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:36.159 those stories from my grandmother, and around the time the 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.800 pain Collector began, when we were also starting to realize 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:44.880 that we were very quickly using the generation that experienced 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.159 the partition first hand. My grandmother included all I have 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.439 is like memories of her telling the stories as drawing up, 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:56.040 but I felt a sense of urgency wanting to crystallize 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:01.080 some of those stories and passed them on Army wanted 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:06.600 to more detail about their project. So the way the 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.800 collective works is, the core that runs through all of 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:14.439 the projects we do is one of collective work. So 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.600 in the earlier editions of our project, we would pick 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.400 a theme, so say home or resistance, and we would 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.200 leave that theme open to reputation. And the artists who 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:29.359 participate in our projects from all sorts of disciplines, so 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:35.120 we have dancers, photographers, writers, poets, and the idea is 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.320 that they look at that central theme and try to 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.159 understand how it resonates with them and bringing to the 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.400 table a piece of work that they think best macapsulates 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.560 what the means to them, and from there we begin 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.880 a process of response where he charges through the piece 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.480 from the other side of the border and response to that. 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.720 So what you have at the end is a collection 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:02.360 of works and coverzation with from another participlants across orders 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.000 that really allow you to look at the central idea 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.960 to something a simple as home and talk about what 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.720 that means in various registers and in various mediums. So, 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.960 for instance, the home, we have ideas of the body 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.600 and how we feel at home in the body. You 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.320 have ideas of lost forms and what that means. When 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.440 you have the idea of my creation and travel, and 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:30.000 so having a process where there is a sense of 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.359 trust in the artists and open endedness to you know, 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:38.680 how you operate, we find leads to end results that 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.600 supplies us in all the best ways. Because it's the 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.280 focus of your project is diversity and a range of 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.720 approaches and a range of expressions. Then having just one 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.399 step central to it and then allowing that to go 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.920 where it goes, we found organically leads to very interesting 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.399 re selves. That's one mode that we've used in the 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:04.280 various word just that we've run this process allowed the 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:10.440 collective to make more collaborative projects. So for instance, we 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:15.160 have the project to which translates to how far, which 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.160 essentially fed up one office from India and one office 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:23.639 from Pakistan mid pandemic to consider what it means to recastly. 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.400 This made this means politically because you know they're operating 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:31.639 in a decline. It and believes of industry remind us, 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.199 but also within the pandemic to think about what bustans 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.680 meant there, and we created a series of games there 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.760 that responded to that theme. So the project, you know, 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:45.360 evolves over time, but with each edition works remain. Central 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.000 is this idea of collaboration and also this idea of 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:54.640 letting it be artistic and letting it free participant pism 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.920 like several previous guests are, and any feel like they 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:04.840 have a responsibility to get these stories out there. One 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:08.359 of my takeaways from this has been in the India 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:12.600 Pakistan context specifically, there's an inherited that there's a trauma 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.639 that we've inherited and that's been passed on through us 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:20.400 through a little in the third generation since the partition, uh, 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:24.440 and we've we've had a very limited vocabulary to sort 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:27.760 of help express what that drama is and help process it, 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:31.600 given that, like i'ven you mentioned, there's been such limited 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.159 avenues for us to even acknowledge that drama likes to 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.560 have conversations each other across the border in a way 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:42.320 that might help process it, or might help navigate through 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:46.439 the challenges of being who we are and the living 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.080 through having lived through that demoil with the past, but 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:53.840 also navigating to sort of very fraught political relationships that 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:57.439 our countries have. And what better way to do it, 0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:59.800 and what better doing is to try and sort of 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:04.240 I get through those very complicated landscapes than to rely 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:09.000 on story. I'm sure calls a few favorite memories from 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:13.679 the collective. A couple of my favorite moments of the 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.040 last couple of years that have come from interactions at 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:20.760 the Pin Collective A bit This one time, after my 0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:25.119 I filmed my interview with my grandmother, one of the 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:29.200 artists from Pakistan sort of ammuciately identified with a lot 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:31.439 of what she was fearing in my grandmother's story and 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.240 related it to the story that her color told her 0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:39.800 growing up that was so touched by my grandmother and 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:42.960 saw her grandmother and in my nanny in a way 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:47.359 that inspired her to create an artwork that that encapsulated 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:51.800 my grandmother's journey from Pakistan to India, and that connection 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.159 was able to break through sort of that one or 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.720 one interaction between just me and Sanna Gratis, but also 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:05.000