1 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Borders have been created by men, and borders are very cruel. 2 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: As I've mentioned before, partition is something that isn't part 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: of the past. It very much lives in our present 4 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: and will certainly dictate our future. For our last episode, 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: I wanted to explore this idea even further with our guests. 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: One is an author and journalist who physically goes to 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: very remote border areas. The others use art to transcend 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: the physical barriers between India and Pakistan. For the past 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: several weeks, you've heard an array of stories across generations 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: about partition. But what do we do with all these conversations. 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: There are many current examples across the globe where we 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: can put this knowledge into action and attempt to make 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: the world a little bit better. From I Radio, I'm 14 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: Nahasis and this is Partition, a podcast that will take 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: a closer look into this often forgotten part of history. 16 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: The voice you heard at the beginning is from journalists 17 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: and author A Lungeon of Bomac. She recently wrote an 18 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: article for National Geographic about little villages along the India 19 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: Pakistan border and their everyday physical struggles caused by this 20 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: arbitrarily drawn line. In our article, she writes the following. 21 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: Along India's international border with Pakistan, southern hamlets on the 22 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: Ruby River rely on scattered lifelines for survival, a floating 23 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: bridge that has to be dismantled for four months every 24 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: year during months in season, A lone boat in the monsoons, 25 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: a couple of empathetic boatmen. Around thirty people live in 26 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 1: the cluster of seven villages known as Magora but Then, 27 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: which include Thor Lascian, Rujport, Ceba, Baril, Caglee, Mami, Chakranga 28 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: and Goodgard. On one side, the land is fenced by 29 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: the Revie, a fierce river that separates it from the 30 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: Indian mainland. On the other, miles of heavily guarded barbed 31 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: wire and steel mesh fence partition it from Pakistan. I 32 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: have always specialized in telling stories of the human condition, 33 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: so you know, it was a very hot story to 34 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: cover because that area is really remote. There is literally 35 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: just one boat to you know, like crossover, and that 36 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: also depends on how high the river is flowing. When 37 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: Alanina was approached by the magazine, she wasn't sure if 38 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: she was up for the job. She had just done 39 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: a difficult story about vaccinations in rural areas. She was 40 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: recovering from a third bout of COVID nineteen and she 41 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: was doing promotions for her book Lies. Our mothers told 42 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: us she was swamped at the end of it all. 43 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: The story was so gripping, you know, seventy five years 44 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: after independence, that you know, this was still the India, 45 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, one of the Indians, you know, that was 46 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: still existing, was so so compelling that I honestly had 47 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: to put aside all my reservations and I said, I'm going, 48 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, this is not a story that 49 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: I cannot not tell, you know, this is a story 50 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: I have to tell. She mentioned that although the area 51 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: she was visiting was a non confrontational border, she still 52 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: faced a lot of issues were trying to get in 53 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: even then because of the mere fact that this was 54 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: the India Pakistan border. It was very, very difficult getting permission, 55 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, We were running against the 56 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: clock because the bridge was going to be dismantled, and 57 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: first we wanted to be there, you know, when the 58 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: bridge was being dismantled, but we didn't get the permission 59 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: for that. After I think, you know, two or three 60 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: weeks of struggling to get permission, we thought that this 61 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: was not happening because once you know, monsoon started in earnest, 62 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: then you know the river will flow and there was 63 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: no point in going because we would not be able 64 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: to cross. We could still do a story, but I 65 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't do justice, you know, to the lives the people 66 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: in those on Clive's lead, because you know, unless you 67 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: experience what the experience, even though you know you're experiencing it, 68 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: maybe you're like for a couple of days, three days, 69 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: four days, you know, but still you have a taste 70 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 1: of If this is so difficult for me for four days, 71 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: just imagine this is a life that these people live 72 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: every day now. Longina states in the article that life 73 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: has remained unchanged since partition. Many issues remain. Roads are unpaved, 74 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: primary schools are struggling, and there are no high schools 75 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: or hospitals. In her article, she describes the daily pains 76 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: residents must endure. To approach the villages from the shore. 77 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: One has to carefully negotiate almost a mile of sandy 78 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: and slippery river band which turns into much when it rains, 79 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: giving way to unpaved and uneven stretches leading up to 80 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: the various villages. The challenges of daily living here has 81 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: intensified with the increasing frequency of extreme weather events due 82 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: to climate change, especially flooding. A seventy year old farmer 83 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: Jold sing is quoted saying, we are the forgotten people. 84 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: The fear of getting caught in a crossfire between the 85 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: two countries is always present. India and Pakistan have fought 86 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:31,239 Speaker 1: two full fledged wars since, as well as several minor 87 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: skirmishes and a limited conflict and gargo in If another 88 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: war breaks out, the residents fear they would have nowhere 89 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: to run. We could be wiped off the face of 90 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: the earth during the night and nobody would know before 91 00:06:48,080 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: it's too late, Singh said. Despite running into problems with 92 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: the Indian Border Security Force while shooting footage, Landona was 93 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: able to get the story with some adjustments. She said. 94 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: Planning and executing the story took a little less than 95 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: twenty days. She drove ten hours from her home in 96 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Lily to the Punjab province. She stayed in a local 97 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: army base called Patan Court. Every morning, the crew would 98 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: set out at five am in order to reach the 99 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: river by six am, the time when the first ferry 100 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: departs on a good day. Sometimes, you know, we would 101 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: just go and sit there, you know, because the water 102 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: levels would be high and the boat wouldn't be you know, lying, 103 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: and we would just sit there waiting, you know, along 104 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: with the passengers, you know, talking to them so or 105 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: just generally you know, just it was dropping on their conversations. 106 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: It is the whole thing, you know, that community unit 107 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: just depends on each other. So it it's such a 108 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: community feeling that even if you're a new person, you've 109 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: become a part of the community immediately because that's what 110 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: they do. You know. They have so little to go 111 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: on and their life is so full of struggles that 112 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: they somehow, you know, like embrace you, you know, with 113 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: an openness that is probably not possible you know in 114 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: a city or even you know, in places you know, 115 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: where life is easier. Nalandina had a total of five 116 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: days to capture the experiences of these communities. She and 117 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: the team gained assistance from locals in order to interview 118 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: the residents at these sparsely populated areas. They had a 119 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: rough first day they weren't really getting the stories they 120 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: had envisioned, but on day too, she encountered a husband 121 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: and wife Manjeeth and Regin there waiting for about so 122 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, like this couple was, you know, like they 123 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: were legs waiting to cross, and she was carrying like 124 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: this big shoot kind of a bag, you know, and 125 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: I could see that she had food in the bag. 126 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: So then I just you know, like approached him. Just 127 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, this was not planned or anything. I had 128 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: no idea about who the guy was or what they 129 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: were doing. I just you know, approached him out of 130 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: this this instinct, you know, like some instinct, you know. 131 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: And when I was talking to him, that's when the 132 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: story just came out. So I said that, you know, 133 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: are you going on the other side and he said, yes, 134 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: we are going on the other SIP side said that 135 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: what is that you know your wife is carrying and 136 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: he said that, oh, it's food for us. So then 137 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: I was intrigued. I was like, what do you mean 138 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, so do you have larned there? Right? And 139 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: he said, yeah, you know, we go across every day. 140 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: We have learned there. So you know, like she has 141 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: got you know, like breakfast and lunch and my father 142 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: is on the other side, so you know, We're going 143 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: to go there the entire day, you know, work on 144 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: the fields and then you know, I mean in the evening. 145 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: And then I said that, you know, so you do 146 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: this every day and he said, yes, we do this 147 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: every day. We you know, like he lives around twenty 148 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: kilometers away and he leaves home at around four am 149 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: every morning to come to the boat stop. I want 150 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: to take the boat you know, to the other side. 151 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: For me, that was the first you know, like glimpse 152 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: of the story I was going to tell that I had. 153 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: When she tagged along with this couple, another angle of 154 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: the story presented itself. It is a story about separation, 155 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, like a story about a border within a country. 156 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: The people live in land that belongs to India. Part 157 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: of the land is you know, on the Pakistan side, 158 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: but they don't live there. You know, it's like just 159 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, land for cultivation. But they're still you know, 160 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: like live on Indian land. But you know, the river 161 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: Rugby is such a furious river that almost everyone I 162 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: spoke to there told me the same thing that you know, 163 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: this river is like, you know, it separates us from India. 164 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: This is our border, you know for India. The order starts, 165 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: you know, like from the border fences, but for us, 166 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, the border starts from here. So what came 167 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: out on the second day is that you know, like 168 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: the elderly have decided to stay back because they can't 169 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: abandon the land. But you know, like they also know 170 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: that they're the younger generation, like not their children, but 171 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: their grandchildren. You don't have no future on that land. 172 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: That land doesn't even have a primary health care center 173 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: or anything. You know, there is like nothing there, you know, 174 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: so they have what they have all done, you know, 175 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: is that you know, they all bought land on the 176 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: other side, which is you know, like the mainland Maka Patan. 177 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: So the younger generation has moved there. Their children, you know, 178 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: go to school, you know, like over there, they just 179 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, like come and go every day. Nol Angina 180 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: goes on to say that the people who live in 181 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: these small villages are lifelines for each other when the 182 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: water rises that from the mainland in the night, you know, 183 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: after seven o'clock when the boat stops back out off. 184 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: So you know, even if there is a medical emergency, 185 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: I mean they sometimes you know, the bass will help them, 186 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: you know, like to probably get to the mainland. But 187 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, and and the boatman you know also because 188 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: he's part of the community and he feels so bad 189 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: for them. If they call him in an emergency, he'll come, 190 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, and despite you know it's being so dangerous 191 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: in the night, you know, to take the boat. He 192 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: is sometimes you know, he does take the boat, you know, 193 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: to help you know, someone who's probably ill. So you know, 194 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: there's this community feeling. You know that is literally you know, 195 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: the lifeline of this community over here. And you know, 196 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: like when you get on the boat, because there is 197 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: no embankment, right so you know, like they have to 198 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: struggle to get the boat and then you know, like 199 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: the people who know wore pushing the boat, and even 200 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: the boat is steered on the one end you know, 201 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: by the boatman, but on the other end by the pass. 202 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: Just so it's a very you know, like they do 203 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: it together because you know it's they all are from 204 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: the community. They have grown up. You know, this has 205 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: been the life for you know, seventy five years, hundred years, 206 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, like as long you know, like as some 207 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: of them can remember. So you know, like there is 208 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: this community feeling because they understand that if nobody is 209 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: there for them. You know, they have to make the 210 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: best of you know, like whatever they have. That's how 211 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, like it's working there, she says, when visiting 212 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: Macora Patan, you really see how this may may divide 213 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: affects these people. Someone came there, measured the land and 214 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: fenced it off. But the land they fenced off where 215 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: some people's livelihood. Right, they've fenced it off without you know, 216 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: paying heat to the fact that there is a furious 217 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: river that flows by, that keeps on changing course, that 218 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: floods a lot, and that you know, these communities would 219 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: be totally cut off from the mainland. They created a border. 220 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: They separated this community, you know, from the mainland from 221 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: the Indian mainland, and didn't even provide them with the bridge. 222 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: You know, a simple bridge can change the fortunes of 223 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: this community. A simple bridge. You know, if you think 224 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: about this five hamlets, there are people that they have lives, 225 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: they have stories, they have lived lives. They have seen 226 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: you know, the India Pakistan partition. They've seen India getting independent. 227 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: They have had full lives. They have you know, lived, 228 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: they have loved, they have lost, they have lost loved 229 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: once because they didn't have a bridge. You know, women 230 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: have died at childbirth because you know, they could not 231 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: be taken to the hospital. And these are real stories, 232 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: these are real people. Their stories should matter. Their stories 233 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: should matter all of us, but their story should matter 234 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: to our governments. In a world where we are boasting 235 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: off immense technological you know, like innovation and advancement. This 236 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: is the saddest story. The saddest story always belongs to 237 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: human beings. The residents were tired of being abandoned, so 238 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: they took a stand for the first time. You know, 239 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: they have boycotted the elections, local elections. That's a huge 240 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: thing because in India and probably in every you know, 241 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: like developing nation or even developed nation. You know, policy 242 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: is determined by the vote, vote back right, and if 243 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: people are in a boycotting elections, that's a short way 244 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: to get the retention. There has been a regime change 245 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: in Punjab as well. You know, many ministers have visited 246 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: that area and promised that up bridge would be built 247 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: by the end of this year and hopefully, you know, 248 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: we would have country. You take to the push a 249 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: little bit me and saw me throughout story and hopefully 250 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, like there will be a bridge, you know, 251 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: by the end of the year, No Londona and I 252 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: are counting the days. The Pin Collective is a collaborative 253 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: art space that seeks to bring together artists of all 254 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: kinds across the border. It was founded by PhD candidate 255 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: of Nanda and Vera and filmmaker ash Revere Ora. The 256 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: name not only comes from the combination of India and Pakistan, 257 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: but also the word pinned in Punjabi means neighborhood or village. 258 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, while at a college to pay competition 259 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: of the visited Pakistan and it was there that a 260 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: plan began to form. At the time, I don't think 261 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: I thought about the weight of that experience or how 262 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: difficult it was. But once I was there, Um, it 263 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: was strange because it felt like I was visiting home. 264 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: But obviously there were many ways in which it was different. 265 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: There were all of these commonalities, whether cultural or social 266 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: or linguistic, people with whom you know, I had so 267 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: much in common. But at the same time I was 268 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,239 Speaker 1: aware that I had crossed the border and that I 269 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: had traveled very far from home in a certain sense. Um, 270 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: what was most striking for me, though, was that when 271 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: I returned, when I made that journey back across Vaga, 272 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: I returned with all of these friendships and these new 273 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: connections that I hadn't even imagined were possible, but also 274 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: the realization that short of crossing that physical border, there 275 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: weren't very many opportunity to use for young people like 276 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: myself to connect with young people across the border. And 277 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: that sounds strange because as people who grow up on 278 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: the Internet, who grew up digually connected and savvy, the 279 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: assumption is that anybody that you want to speak to 280 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: across the world is within reach, and that's really not 281 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: true when it comes to India and Pakistan. When you 282 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: think about the average Indian twenty something, they're not likely 283 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: to have friends across the border, even though there are 284 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: so many reasons for those friendships spaces. She quickly wanted 285 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: to remedy this obstacle and create a space for like 286 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: minded people to join her, regardless of theographical distance on 287 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: the subcontinent. Put the next and speak and address for 288 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: what we have in common and the past that lies 289 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: behind us, as well as the possibilities that lie ahead 290 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: of us, and initially was one of the participating artists 291 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: that I was keen to work with at the very 292 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: big ning of the project. But what I quickly realized 293 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: was that we were very compatible in terms of our 294 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: working styles and that he would be wonderful advision to 295 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: the team. But also that with a project like this, 296 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: more hands is always better, and the more space that 297 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: is for collaboration and different viewpoints, the further the project 298 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: can travel. Really, so I invited him to join and 299 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: very kindly agreed, And that was the stuff. Ash remembers 300 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: listening to stories from his grandmother, which not only inspired 301 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: his role in the Pin Collective, but also as a filmmaker. 302 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: For me, as a storytell over, I used to spend 303 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: summer vacations with her growing up, and before going to sleep, 304 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: she used to tell me stories of her time in 305 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: Pakistan and what should remember the bit as a man 306 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: look the story of when she worked on foot from 307 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: Pakistan to India, when the when the partisher happened, and 308 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: sort of the encounters she faced on the journey to 309 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: India as well as what it was like to finding India. 310 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: And she went on and on, and I with the 311 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: perfect audience for it. So I think those stories in 312 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: particular inspired my interest in a lot of the work 313 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: that ended up doing with the collective as well as 314 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: UH in the field of documentary. General or of my 315 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: work personally tries to extore the idea of home and 316 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: belong in separation. I grew up listening to all of 317 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: those stories from my grandmother, and around the time the 318 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: pain Collector began, when we were also starting to realize 319 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: that we were very quickly using the generation that experienced 320 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: the partition first hand. My grandmother included all I have 321 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: is like memories of her telling the stories as drawing up, 322 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: but I felt a sense of urgency wanting to crystallize 323 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: some of those stories and passed them on Army wanted 324 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: to more detail about their project. So the way the 325 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: collective works is, the core that runs through all of 326 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: the projects we do is one of collective work. So 327 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: in the earlier editions of our project, we would pick 328 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: a theme, so say home or resistance, and we would 329 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: leave that theme open to reputation. And the artists who 330 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: participate in our projects from all sorts of disciplines, so 331 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: we have dancers, photographers, writers, poets, and the idea is 332 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: that they look at that central theme and try to 333 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: understand how it resonates with them and bringing to the 334 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: table a piece of work that they think best macapsulates 335 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: what the means to them, and from there we begin 336 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: a process of response where he charges through the piece 337 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: from the other side of the border and response to that. 338 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: So what you have at the end is a collection 339 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: of works and coverzation with from another participlants across orders 340 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: that really allow you to look at the central idea 341 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: to something a simple as home and talk about what 342 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: that means in various registers and in various mediums. So, 343 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: for instance, the home, we have ideas of the body 344 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: and how we feel at home in the body. You 345 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: have ideas of lost forms and what that means. When 346 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: you have the idea of my creation and travel, and 347 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: so having a process where there is a sense of 348 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: trust in the artists and open endedness to you know, 349 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: how you operate, we find leads to end results that 350 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: supplies us in all the best ways. Because it's the 351 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: focus of your project is diversity and a range of 352 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: approaches and a range of expressions. Then having just one 353 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: step central to it and then allowing that to go 354 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: where it goes, we found organically leads to very interesting 355 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: re selves. That's one mode that we've used in the 356 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: various word just that we've run this process allowed the 357 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: collective to make more collaborative projects. So for instance, we 358 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: have the project to which translates to how far, which 359 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: essentially fed up one office from India and one office 360 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: from Pakistan mid pandemic to consider what it means to recastly. 361 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: This made this means politically because you know they're operating 362 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: in a decline. It and believes of industry remind us, 363 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: but also within the pandemic to think about what bustans 364 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: meant there, and we created a series of games there 365 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: that responded to that theme. So the project, you know, 366 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: evolves over time, but with each edition works remain. Central 367 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: is this idea of collaboration and also this idea of 368 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: letting it be artistic and letting it free participant pism 369 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: like several previous guests are, and any feel like they 370 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: have a responsibility to get these stories out there. One 371 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: of my takeaways from this has been in the India 372 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: Pakistan context specifically, there's an inherited that there's a trauma 373 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: that we've inherited and that's been passed on through us 374 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: through a little in the third generation since the partition, uh, 375 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: and we've we've had a very limited vocabulary to sort 376 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: of help express what that drama is and help process it, 377 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: given that, like i'ven you mentioned, there's been such limited 378 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: avenues for us to even acknowledge that drama likes to 379 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: have conversations each other across the border in a way 380 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: that might help process it, or might help navigate through 381 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: the challenges of being who we are and the living 382 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: through having lived through that demoil with the past, but 383 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: also navigating to sort of very fraught political relationships that 384 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: our countries have. And what better way to do it, 385 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: and what better doing is to try and sort of 386 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: I get through those very complicated landscapes than to rely 387 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: on story. I'm sure calls a few favorite memories from 388 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: the collective. A couple of my favorite moments of the 389 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: last couple of years that have come from interactions at 390 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: the Pin Collective A bit This one time, after my 391 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: I filmed my interview with my grandmother, one of the 392 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: artists from Pakistan sort of ammuciately identified with a lot 393 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: of what she was fearing in my grandmother's story and 394 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: related it to the story that her color told her 395 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: growing up that was so touched by my grandmother and 396 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: saw her grandmother and in my nanny in a way 397 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: that inspired her to create an artwork that that encapsulated 398 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: my grandmother's journey from Pakistan to India, and that connection 399 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: was able to break through sort of that one or 400 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: one interaction between just me and Sanna Gratis, but also 401 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: impacked and very meaningful ways. Uh. My grandmother then ended 402 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: up recording a message for son. I am able to 403 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: that connection, however brief in a way that I know 404 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: my grandmother now has that artwork movement continues to the 405 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: data every morning. Um So I think like the importance 406 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: of those connections, so it sort of really what's worth it. 407 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: Another favorite moment of mine and the favorites of outcome 408 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: of a lot of these intellactions. It's been two artists 409 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: who worked on a scene together in anet up and 410 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: that scene end up being about their neighborhoods. This was 411 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: part of the Kidney Do a project that acting was 412 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: reflective the move and too through over the course of 413 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: that project and describing their neighborhoods to each other and 414 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: what it's like to live the cities that they live in. 415 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: People they do did not just form upon that lasted 416 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: over the course of that project, but every couple of 417 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: months I see them wishing each other on Instagram and 418 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: it's a it's a resilient connection that it's stayed on 419 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: beyond that particular interaction that they had posit the confines 420 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: of the PIN collectives. So I feel like being able 421 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: to establish those long lasting relationships and then through the 422 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: artwork we put out into the world, hopefully invoking conversations 423 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: between the audiences and hope pay hopefully having them identify 424 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: with a lot of the stories you're trying to tell 425 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: a lot of fine friends something that resonates. I think 426 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: it's the goal, and hopefully clergy a bit of that 427 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: of the last. Of course, the pair of stress that 428 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: having images of partition outside of those from the papers 429 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: and news stories is vital. They want to connect these 430 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: stories in emotion and not a few quick bullet points. 431 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: I couldn't help but ask what future they saw for 432 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: India and Pakistan. It's a hard question. You're not wrong, um, 433 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: I think it's a very difficult trajectory to charge to 434 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: try to understand where we go from here. On a 435 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: personal level, I think, UM, I have a lot of 436 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: hope when it comes to, for instance, other people, you wait, 437 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: people doing incredible work across the border, whether documentary or artistic. 438 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: There's a real sense, I think, both in India and 439 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: Pakistan that what we have in common is is worth preserving. 440 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: I think art and the personal is where I see 441 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: most space for connection, simply because and I'm a going Unshire, 442 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: because there's room for depth, and there's room for accessibility 443 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: for the personal, for understanding, for complication, a lot of 444 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: which is a rays. When it comes to political conversation, 445 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: I think the culture of artul countries is likely to 446 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: be really is two people a lot of conference, just 447 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: because the political is hard to charge and it's hard 448 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: to control. I think for a very long time victims 449 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: or survivors of partisans have had typicular relationships with that experience, 450 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: but a lot of love and a lot of fondness 451 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: and a deep connection with where they came from, something 452 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: that's not always acknowledged when we think about how differently 453 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: and as a political concept for about it is a 454 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: difficult concept. Um. I think our identities spent far beyond 455 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: geographical boundaries, and we'll continue to do so. And I 456 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: hope honestly that projects like our own continue to multiply 457 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: so that it's not exceptional for people. And I decided 458 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: the border to be speaking, it's not exceptional or projects 459 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: that cars to be connecting people because that's been knowing. 460 00:29:53,720 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: So that's the peple that I hope for. Empathy the 461 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: skill I think every person needs to possess. We shouldn't 462 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: ignore events happening in our backyard or other places because 463 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: we think it has nothing to do with us. This 464 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: idea of an ease when it comes to the other 465 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: isn't specific to India and Pakistan. Many countries do not 466 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: want citizens from other countries that don't look like them. 467 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: For example, the treatment of Syrian refugees differed immensely from 468 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: Ukrainian refugees. There has been a rapid rise of nationalism 469 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: among many countries, including the UK and the United States. 470 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: Children are still being separated from their families, Hateful legislation 471 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: continues to be created to erase marginalized communities, and there 472 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: are large amounts of misinformation when it comes to a 473 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: variety of topics like elections and immigration policy. In order 474 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: to have empathy, we need to go beyond sixty two 475 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: TV clips or breaking news articles and learn about these 476 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: issues more deeply. There is no one piece of material 477 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: that can encompass an entire major historical event and every 478 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: detail that comes with it, whether it is a film, book, 479 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: or podcast. As a creator, my goal with this show 480 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: is to highlight Partition in relation to memories, lesser known stories, 481 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: and it's continuing effects after seventy five years, but there 482 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: is so much more to discover. I encourage everyone to 483 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: look into the numerous examples mentioned and to continue your 484 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: journey with Partition. Read one of the books we quoted from, 485 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: look at the Partition archive and watch other experiences, or 486 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: visit pretheca's art installations online or in person. You can 487 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: find a list of all of our sources linked in 488 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: the show notes. Look into your family's history and have 489 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: a chat with your relatives. If partition is something that 490 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: you didn't know much about, ask yourself what else you 491 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: may not know. Share your understanding and realizations with others. 492 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: There is no highline on learning or changing our perspectives 493 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: when we obtain new information. The simple willingness of wanting 494 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: to investigate stories and histories outside of what we already 495 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: know is incredibly powerful. I am eternally grateful to you 496 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: for listening, thank you for giving me your time and 497 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: attention these past ten weeks, and I sincerely hope I'll 498 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: be back soon with more underrepresented stories. Until we meet again, 499 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm Nahasis and this is Partition. Partition was developed as 500 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: a part of the Next Up initiative created by Anna Hosnier, 501 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: Joel Monique and Seni A median. Partition is produced by 502 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: Anna Hosnier, Tricia Mukerjee and Becca Ramos. It is edited 503 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: by Rory Gagan, with the original score composed by Mark Hadley. 504 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: The in