Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to Start from the Bottom, a show
Speaker 1: where we dig into the lives of people who navigated
Speaker 1: non traditional paths to success. Today, I'm sharing my conversation
Speaker 1: with the first black female CEO in NBA history, Cynthia
Speaker 1: sent Marshall. You'll get to hear just how this Bay
Speaker 1: Area force worked her way up from an abusive household
Speaker 1: in the projects, turn in a full ride to UC Berkeley,
Speaker 1: then beating cancer at the height of her career. Sint
Speaker 1: and I both went to Berkeley at different times. It's
Speaker 1: actually there where I first heard of her, when she
Speaker 1: came to speak to the black student. It was interesting
Speaker 1: to find out through a conversation that we had similar
Speaker 1: experiences at Berkeley. I'm forever grateful, of course, to the
Speaker 1: school for taking a chance on me, but both Sin
Speaker 1: and I had a tough time feeling like part of
Speaker 1: a larger community without many other kids being around on campus.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. Plus they're a sent at at
Speaker 1: and T and more. Let's get into it was sent
Speaker 1: You came in to a whole job that was a
Speaker 1: whole lot of work. Mark Cuban, owner of the MAVs, Yes,
Speaker 1: called you directly. You he needed you. Your whit persons
Speaker 1: have to come in here. And you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: know when he called me, You didn't know? Yah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: how are you approaching being the CEO of the of
Speaker 1: the Mavericks giving kind of what was happening before you
Speaker 1: got here? And there were no people of color and
Speaker 1: the executive correct We had ten white man sitting around
Speaker 1: the table in my first meeting, and then they brought
Speaker 1: in two women who were not a part of the
Speaker 1: permanent leadership team. So now our leadership team, executive leadership
Speaker 1: teams fifty percent women and fifty percent people of color.
Speaker 1: And when you go down through the tables, we have
Speaker 1: a diverse employee body. So I feel great about that,
Speaker 1: and so that's important to me. But equally as important
Speaker 1: is to have an inclusive culture. So not just have
Speaker 1: these people in their great jobs and doing great things,
Speaker 1: and you know, our employee body looks like the community
Speaker 1: that we serve and the fans that we serve, but
Speaker 1: that people are included, that we actually embrace people. So
Speaker 1: representation is important, but then also just the whole culture
Speaker 1: and the climate. That's what we focus on every day.
Speaker 1: And then of course we want to make money. Somebody
Speaker 1: told me when I first got here about the financials,
Speaker 1: and Mark Cuban is a billionaire and if he needs
Speaker 1: to write a check back to the company, he will.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's not a good attitude to have
Speaker 1: because I come from a place thirty six years where
Speaker 1: it was about profit and loss and Mark Cuban and
Speaker 1: gets to keep his money that he has. We should
Speaker 1: be making money to give back to this organization. Why
Speaker 1: he called you. I mean, we should be making money, okay,
Speaker 1: Mark Cuban should not be funding this every year. And
Speaker 1: so we just had a very good, a very good year.
Speaker 1: COVID hit us hard, but we still made money. But
Speaker 1: we just had a very good record setting unprecedented year.
Speaker 1: So I feel good about that. I truly don't take
Speaker 1: the credit. I mean the Lord blessed me to be
Speaker 1: able to bring people together and we get it done.
Speaker 1: If I lost the people around that table, we would
Speaker 1: not be as successful as we are. If my boss
Speaker 1: didn't have the faith that he has in us, and
Speaker 1: if he didn't actually slow down long enough to teach
Speaker 1: me the business of basketball, which he promised he would do.
Speaker 1: He knew I didn't know a thing about basketball, okay,
Speaker 1: and he's done that. So we're we're all in this
Speaker 1: really together. We have our season ticket holders and our fans,
Speaker 1: and then our players who are absolutely phenomenal and they
Speaker 1: are men of character and they love that. You got
Speaker 1: a colbear running, you got running the team, come on,
Speaker 1: j And then of course our general manager Nico Harrison,
Speaker 1: so uh, and then Mike Finley, this is in general manager.
Speaker 1: We have a good team on and off the court,
Speaker 1: and so I'm blessed to be able to be the
Speaker 1: face of it a lot. But they're they're doing it.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm in there too. No, I work hard,
Speaker 1: but we all do. We all do, and so we're
Speaker 1: all going to leave it better than we found it.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you came out here. I see glad
Speaker 1: that you agreed to do it. And then of course
Speaker 1: over here it's great to do. It's fun. And you know,
Speaker 1: I m we have a Berkeley connection. Yes, I went
Speaker 1: to Berkeley undergrad and eventually to grad school there. Awesome.
Speaker 1: When I was in college and I was at Berkeley, yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of thought that was it, Like I made
Speaker 1: it like it's over right. Well, I didn't like, this
Speaker 1: is like a whole journey ahead. And I didn't really
Speaker 1: know how to navigate that. It's the beginning of that journey.
Speaker 1: It's the beginning of the journey. You step on that
Speaker 1: campus and you see say their gade and the big
Speaker 1: camp and nearly and you're like, Okay, this is big
Speaker 1: stuff here. I made it. Yeah, and everyone's telling you
Speaker 1: you made it. You know that. I congratulations you did.
Speaker 1: And you're at Berkeley. Don't want probably institution in the world.
Speaker 1: All that, right, And it's just the beginn of the journey.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about how you got to Berkeley. What was
Speaker 1: it like growing up in Richmond, California. Oh, I love
Speaker 1: nine four eight oh four. Okay, So my parents left Birmingham, Alabama,
Speaker 1: So you know your civil rights history. So the church
Speaker 1: that was bombed in Birmingham in nineteen sixty three, the
Speaker 1: sixteenth Street Baptist Church, Okay, that was one of my
Speaker 1: mother's churches, okay, right there in her neighborhood. Okay, And
Speaker 1: that always sticks out to me because four girls lost
Speaker 1: their lives that day. My mother has four girls and
Speaker 1: two boys. Okay, So I think about those girls every day,
Speaker 1: just think about them and the sacrifice that they had
Speaker 1: to make. Or my parents left there. Oh absolutely could
Speaker 1: have been. I mean absolutely could have been. So, but
Speaker 1: my parents left there because they wanted us to They
Speaker 1: didn't want us to grow up in the gym crow
Speaker 1: segregated South. So moved to the Bay Area, Richmond, California.
Speaker 1: My dad had a sister and a brother in law there,
Speaker 1: and so we landed in the projects. Okay, And I
Speaker 1: described it as a good childhood even though there was
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that happened. Okay, because a lot
Speaker 1: of things happened to all of us. It's just how
Speaker 1: you grow up. But we were the victims of domestic violence.
Speaker 1: I mean I saw a lot. I saw my mom
Speaker 1: being abused. My father broke my nose when I was
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. I just I just saw a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff happen. Actually, fifteen, how do you how are
Speaker 1: you prossing this as a at the time that it's happening.
Speaker 1: My mother was a woman of faith, and so we
Speaker 1: just always felt like the Lord would take care of us.
Speaker 1: I mean, for example, the summer my father left us
Speaker 1: and it was a bloody, ugly summer where we had
Speaker 1: to flee our house that summer, but my mother's prayer
Speaker 1: was that we would make it back home before school started.
Speaker 1: And we made it back home. There was one match
Speaker 1: was in the house for me and my younger sister
Speaker 1: to sleep on. My father had taken everything and eventually,
Speaker 1: you know, he started to bring, you know, send it back.
Speaker 1: But my mother told us that day because we were
Speaker 1: going crazy. I ran track. Our trophies were gone. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's amazing the things you care about at that age. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I were in my drunk. Yeah okay, and then you know,
Speaker 1: school is getting raised. We don't have any clothes, and
Speaker 1: I'll never forget what my mother said. She said, everybody'd
Speaker 1: be quiet, and it was just dead silence. She said,
Speaker 1: all I want is peace of mind. The Lord will provide,
Speaker 1: and he did. Literally, people start bringing us stuff. The
Speaker 1: firm to start to show up again. I went to school,
Speaker 1: but I went to school with embrace on my nose
Speaker 1: from where my father had broken my nose that summer.
Speaker 1: But my mother told me to go to school, just
Speaker 1: keep going. And three teachers and a principle. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget this. Three teachers and a principle embrace me. I
Speaker 1: want to know what was going on. I mean, at
Speaker 1: this point, I'm a junior. So they know me, talk
Speaker 1: to my mom, and they just got me involved in
Speaker 1: all kind of activities and the rest is history. Miss Irvin,
Speaker 1: mister o'telly, mister Chapman, and mister Parris just decided, Okay,
Speaker 1: this girl is going to college. We know her mom,
Speaker 1: we know the desires of her mom, and we're going
Speaker 1: to embrace her. And my zipkoe didn't matter. I got
Speaker 1: a great public education. They embraced me, and I ended
Speaker 1: up with five full scholarships to the college of my choice.
Speaker 1: So of course, get into school your choice, full ride,
Speaker 1: no problem. I mean, Berkeley is an interesting place. It
Speaker 1: is because you know everyone. I think everyone thinks it's
Speaker 1: like a bastion of racial and the harmony, and but
Speaker 1: the truth of it is, and I went there thirty
Speaker 1: forty years after you. It's not it's not. It's not,
Speaker 1: it's not. I mean people think that it's the San
Speaker 1: Francisco Bay area. It's very diverse, is very liberal, I
Speaker 1: mean all of that. And when I went to Berkeley,
Speaker 1: Black's made up one percent of the school. There were
Speaker 1: three hundred of us, and I think they're by thirty
Speaker 1: thousand students. I mean, we made one one percent of
Speaker 1: the school. I was the only African American in my sorority,
Speaker 1: one of the first black cheerleaders. It just was not
Speaker 1: It wasn't diverse, and it's still is not as diverse
Speaker 1: as it should be as it relates to blacks. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: how did you handle that? I just did what I
Speaker 1: normally did. I mean, like when I went out for
Speaker 1: to be a cheerleader. I was a cheerleader in high school.
Speaker 1: My high school was about I mean, you saw as
Speaker 1: many Asians, as many white, as many black, some Hispanics
Speaker 1: in my high school, right, so very mixed. And then
Speaker 1: when I got to Berkeley was very different. But I
Speaker 1: didn't change so the things I wanted to do. If
Speaker 1: I saw an activity I wanted to participate in a
Speaker 1: class I wanted to take, I mean, I just did
Speaker 1: what I normally would do. I didn't get scared because
Speaker 1: of the fact that there weren't a whole lot of
Speaker 1: people looked like me. There weren't a lot of professors
Speaker 1: that looked like me, and so I didn't realize I
Speaker 1: was one of the first black cheerleaders until somebody said
Speaker 1: that to me. Until people are coming up and putting
Speaker 1: their hands in my afro and so we're so glad
Speaker 1: to have you as a cheerleader, and we're so glad
Speaker 1: to have you out there. It looks good to see
Speaker 1: you there. We need more black kids out there. And I, okay,
Speaker 1: did you have a sense of what you wanted to
Speaker 1: do while you were there? Like, did you have an aim? Say,
Speaker 1: I want to get out of here and do this? Okay.
Speaker 1: So I came in as an engineering major, and by
Speaker 1: the end of that year, I didn't like it. Getting
Speaker 1: good grades, but I didn't like it. I took one
Speaker 1: business class and said, I think I want to change
Speaker 1: my major. And I took one organizational behavior class, and
Speaker 1: I sum, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna work for
Speaker 1: a big company and lead people and all that. And
Speaker 1: so I knew from that first class I want to
Speaker 1: go work in a corporation and I wanted to lead
Speaker 1: large groups of people. And so I remember when I
Speaker 1: was recruited and I had thirteen job offers, and I said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take the one that pays me the
Speaker 1: most money because I want to help my family, you know,
Speaker 1: get out of Easter Hill. And then I'm going to
Speaker 1: take the one that lets me be the boss. At
Speaker 1: twenty one years old. At twenty one years old, I'm
Speaker 1: going to come in and lead people because I want
Speaker 1: to serve people. So what positions were you applying for them? Oh?
Speaker 1: So I had Wells Fargo, so kind of an assistant
Speaker 1: manager at a bank, Chevron, I mean, just your typical
Speaker 1: kind of I mean across industry though, so the energy,
Speaker 1: the oil and gas industry, energy companies, banks, retail companies,
Speaker 1: and then AT and T was there, so just a variety,
Speaker 1: and I was just looking at who was going to
Speaker 1: pay me the most money. I mean, but I want
Speaker 1: to supervise people. So that was my criteria. Is it
Speaker 1: typical straight out of college to apply for like a job?
Speaker 1: It's like a system, like a management job. Is that
Speaker 1: I guess it was for me because I mean they
Speaker 1: had those jobs available, and what AT and T had
Speaker 1: Pacific Belt they had a fast track management program. So
Speaker 1: they'd bring you in in a supervisory job and just
Speaker 1: help you kind of advance and the goal was to
Speaker 1: get you to director by five years. I mean, so
Speaker 1: they wanted people who had proven kind of leadership experience,
Speaker 1: you know, leading clubs whatever however you did that at
Speaker 1: that age, and then they would help you grow as
Speaker 1: a leader. So I came in on our fast track program.
Speaker 1: Hardly any blacks in that program, and it was quite
Speaker 1: an experience. It was quite an experience. What did you learn? Okay?
Speaker 1: So what I learned is that there's some people who
Speaker 1: are truly invested in you. They want you to do well.
Speaker 1: Had I had my second boss, Norm McBride, he's in
Speaker 1: the Bay Area. I remember one time when he says, Cindy.
Speaker 1: He'd called me Cindy back then, because I also learned,
Speaker 1: if people call you what they want to call you, okay,
Speaker 1: even though I would say I am Sent Okay, my
Speaker 1: name is Cynthia, but I go by Sent. Well, people
Speaker 1: never heard of Sent. But he'd called me Cindy because
Speaker 1: he just couldn't get with the scent thing. And he said, Cindy,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do in this company? So it's
Speaker 1: my second job, right, he goes, what are you gonna
Speaker 1: do in this company? And ironically my job was a
Speaker 1: network engineer okay, because they wanted to promote me into
Speaker 1: my boss's job in operator services. By that point, I
Speaker 1: had gotten like all this input, even from my own operators.
Speaker 1: Since Sent this company is big, it's a technical company.
Speaker 1: Go and learn this company, because you want to know
Speaker 1: this company as you start to go up. So I
Speaker 1: turned down that promotion to be my boss. I turned
Speaker 1: on that job and took a lateral to go to
Speaker 1: the network engineering department. At that time, it was telecommunications, right.
Speaker 1: The industry has changed a lot, but at that time,
Speaker 1: I did need to know our network. I needed to
Speaker 1: know how these phone calls were being made. I needed
Speaker 1: to understand the network underneath and behind it all. And
Speaker 1: so I took a lateral to the network engineering department,
Speaker 1: which was so funny to me because I spent all
Speaker 1: this time kicking and scream and I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be an engineer, right. And so my boss, the engineering manager,
Speaker 1: came up to me and he goes sending, what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do in this company? What's your next job?
Speaker 1: What's your vision? What's your vision? What do you want
Speaker 1: to do? I said something to him that was so stupid. Okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm twenty three years old, I said it, so
Speaker 1: I can a minute now, okay. I looked at him
Speaker 1: and I said, mister McBride, I had my head down
Speaker 1: with all my demand and capacity charts. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how the network to call flow and make
Speaker 1: sure that we got enough capacity and all that. And
Speaker 1: so I put my head up and I said, mister McBride,
Speaker 1: my job was to do my current job and to
Speaker 1: deliver it, and I'm going to do it well, I said,
Speaker 1: your job is to figure out my next job. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave it to you. How stupid is that? Like?
Speaker 1: Is that? How stupid is that? Right? And so I
Speaker 1: really thought that all right, I didn't know any bed idea.
Speaker 1: I didn't know anybody three years ago. I didn't know
Speaker 1: any better, right, And so he just looked at me.
Speaker 1: Thank god he did, though, this white man, okay, totally
Speaker 1: invested in me. And he said, oh, Cindy, mmm, come
Speaker 1: on back here with me. And so he took me
Speaker 1: back to his big engineering manager office and he had
Speaker 1: all these white boards and easel sheets and all that.
Speaker 1: And that man spent two hours showing me the different
Speaker 1: departments of the company, what they do, how it all
Speaker 1: hangs together. He looked at my skill set what he
Speaker 1: thought would be a good path for me. I mean,
Speaker 1: he spent two hours. Wow, Like, who does that? And
Speaker 1: he says, okay, so Cindy, let's start thinking about the
Speaker 1: next kind of job you need to have. You need
Speaker 1: something where you could see the big picture. He laid out,
Speaker 1: like my next three jobs, based on what he knew
Speaker 1: about me. He says, so this is how this works,
Speaker 1: and you gotta have somebody to help you do this.
Speaker 1: But then it's your decision. And so as I was
Speaker 1: leaving his office, he said, sind Y, don't ever put
Speaker 1: your career in somebody else's hands. He says, you have
Speaker 1: to own it. There will be people who will invest
Speaker 1: in you, and then there will be some people who
Speaker 1: are not invest in you. You know, you have to
Speaker 1: watch out for those people as well, but you have
Speaker 1: to own it. And I walked out of his office
Speaker 1: with a plan. A couple of days later, he came
Speaker 1: by and he goes, Cindy, where are you going girl?
Speaker 1: Where are you going in this company? What you're gonna
Speaker 1: do with your career? And I said, mister McBride, what
Speaker 1: I want to do. I want to have a job
Speaker 1: with the big picture of the company. I would, and
Speaker 1: so I just like real out. He goes, we got
Speaker 1: it good. I love Norm McBride. I gotta find him.
Speaker 1: I gotta gotta be in his nineties or something now,
Speaker 1: I gotta find him. Is that beautiful? So lucky that
Speaker 1: you said what you said and not somebody, I mean,
Speaker 1: because he really did. I thought that. Yeah, I thought,
Speaker 1: I'm going to work hard because results matter. Results matter.
Speaker 1: You have to deliver the goods, right, Okay, But that's
Speaker 1: not all that matters. Because you can deliver the results
Speaker 1: and all that, But if nobody's invested in you, and
Speaker 1: if you don't know how to navigate the terrain, if
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there because you know you're a black
Speaker 1: person or you're a black woman, but nobody is truly
Speaker 1: telling you the culture and including you and helping you
Speaker 1: understand what the rules are and all that, you're just
Speaker 1: there and before you know it, twenty years pasted or
Speaker 1: five years passing year, unhappy and you leave. I have
Speaker 1: done that exercise that I tell you Norm McBride did
Speaker 1: for me. I've done that with a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I've done it with a lot of people. What else
Speaker 1: did you learn at and t oh Man? I learned
Speaker 1: a lot of thirty six years years thirty six years okay.
Speaker 1: I learned how to be an effective leader and a
Speaker 1: servant leader, which is what I am. I serve people
Speaker 1: and my three l's is if I want to be
Speaker 1: really effective, I need to do three things. I need
Speaker 1: to listen to the people, learn from the people, and
Speaker 1: love the people truly listen, not just hear them, but
Speaker 1: listen to what they're saying and what they're not saying,
Speaker 1: which is what I did when I came here to
Speaker 1: the MAVs, one on ones with every single employee, just
Speaker 1: listening to them and trying to understand who are these
Speaker 1: people that I need to serve a lot of people
Speaker 1: might say, well, Okay, you're gonna you know, you get
Speaker 1: in a position where you need to go and you
Speaker 1: kind of need to like triage, like what's going on
Speaker 1: here and figure things out. And Okay, but if I
Speaker 1: go start talking to everybody, everyone's gonna have different grievances.
Speaker 1: Everyone's gonna want different things. You want all that. You
Speaker 1: want all that because it's a recipe. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: you're trying, you're trying to bake a cake. You don't
Speaker 1: just bake it with the eggs. Okay, you gotta have
Speaker 1: all of it. I mean, And like I make sweetpotator bies, Okay,
Speaker 1: so I need my sweet potatoes. I need I mean,
Speaker 1: I want to sign that. By the way, they're famous. Okay,
Speaker 1: they're famous, But I don't just say Okay, well I
Speaker 1: got to sweet potatoes, so now I can make my bies, right. No,
Speaker 1: I gotta have the butter. I gotta have the eggs.
Speaker 1: I gotta have this sugar. I gotta have the nutmeg.
Speaker 1: I gotta have the cinnamon, and yeah, and yeah, and
Speaker 1: the nutmeg and cinnamon. That's only like two tablespoons, but
Speaker 1: that's what you really taste. Okay, if it's missing, you
Speaker 1: know it's missing. So everybody brings something different, so you
Speaker 1: got to hear all of that. I have two hundred
Speaker 1: people here. We have to know these people. We got
Speaker 1: to understand. Like I asked the people when I got here,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I would start out by saying, how
Speaker 1: long have you been? Give me your whole give your
Speaker 1: whole life story, And undoubtedly they would say something like, well,
Speaker 1: this is my seventh season at the Maps, And I said,
Speaker 1: were you born here? Like? Were you born here in
Speaker 1: this building? Were you born on the court at the Maps?
Speaker 1: I want the whole life story. So then I make
Speaker 1: them go all the way back because I want to
Speaker 1: know the story, just like I started with you about
Speaker 1: being born in Birmingham. And here's what I learned in
Speaker 1: that process. So many people in this organization, they literally
Speaker 1: chose to have a career in sports, Like very few
Speaker 1: somebody like call them or they showed up to help
Speaker 1: with a crisis or whatever. They chose a long time
Speaker 1: ago to have a career in sports. I was so
Speaker 1: emotional by the time I interviewed all these people. I
Speaker 1: mean like, I was crying, and I called in the
Speaker 1: two women who had come here with me and I said, Okay, so,
Speaker 1: just like we chose to have a career in communications,
Speaker 1: these people chose to have a career in sports. Like
Speaker 1: some of these people were sports management majors in college.
Speaker 1: I've never even heard of that. Okay, They've invested in
Speaker 1: their lives getting ready for this. This is their life.
Speaker 1: That's why authenticity is one of our values that's important
Speaker 1: to us. And so I often say the people, and
Speaker 1: I've said this for years, the people who get up
Speaker 1: out of bed in the morning, the issues they have,
Speaker 1: the baggage they have, the backgrounds they have, the cultural
Speaker 1: attributes they have, all of that. Those are the people
Speaker 1: we should want to walk into our doors every day
Speaker 1: as employers. We don't want them to get up and
Speaker 1: go onto a phone booth, change out of who they
Speaker 1: are and put on a big cape with an M
Speaker 1: on their chest for Mavericks or T on their chest
Speaker 1: for AT and T and come in and be the
Speaker 1: people we want them to be. We want the person
Speaker 1: who got up out of bed in the morning. Wow.
Speaker 1: That's why I want to walk in in the morning
Speaker 1: or show up on the screen, because that authenticity gives
Speaker 1: us creativity, It gives us innovation, It helps us understand
Speaker 1: different cultures, it helps us tap into different market segments.
Speaker 1: I don't want people going in and putting a cap
Speaker 1: on with an M on it, because then we're all
Speaker 1: the same when we come back. Sint Marshall talks about
Speaker 1: how getting people to perform is the mark of a
Speaker 1: good leader and how community focused businesses make more money.
Speaker 1: We're back with Sint Marshall. Do you have a strategy
Speaker 1: for how to how to get your ideas across? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you know? How are you when you when
Speaker 1: you go into a place, how are you looking to implement?
Speaker 1: Okay yourself? Okay, So I'm I'm naturally a positive person.
Speaker 1: I'm naturally an optimistic person and I'm a person that
Speaker 1: believes in people, and so I approach it that way.
Speaker 1: I approach it very in a very positive manner and
Speaker 1: try to get people to understand what I think needs
Speaker 1: to happen. Now, in a leadership job, I have a
Speaker 1: bigger picture and so I have to do that with
Speaker 1: my team members sometime and they'll tell me what they
Speaker 1: think and I said, okay, well you give it to
Speaker 1: me from where you sit, from your vantage point, and
Speaker 1: I'll give it to you from where I sit. And
Speaker 1: every now and then I just got to make a
Speaker 1: decision and we got to go. But usually is bringing
Speaker 1: people together because I think it's about knowing what your
Speaker 1: mission and your goal is. If your mission is to
Speaker 1: get the best out of people and to get them
Speaker 1: to perform for the sake of the share owners. At
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you're running a business. It's
Speaker 1: about profit and loss, and you get to do good
Speaker 1: on top of all of that. Okay, a company does
Speaker 1: well by doing good, and so you get a chance
Speaker 1: to reach out to the community and do all that.
Speaker 1: But you got to make you want to be able
Speaker 1: to do that, and so there's a way to get people,
Speaker 1: to engage people and to get them to perform. Make
Speaker 1: an important point. I mean, you know, doing good is
Speaker 1: a thing that you want to do, but when it
Speaker 1: comes to this down to down to dollars and cents
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you need to make money.
Speaker 1: That's like, that's the goal, right, and you can you
Speaker 1: can actually make more money. I've seen it. I mean
Speaker 1: I've lived it where you could actually even make more
Speaker 1: money by taking care of more people and by doing
Speaker 1: good in the world. Because in fact, I just had
Speaker 1: an example. I'll give you a perfect example. We have
Speaker 1: an organization I won't mention who they are, big sponsor
Speaker 1: of hours Okay, fabulous actually a fabulous business model they have, right,
Speaker 1: And so our sponsorship guy asked me. He says, I
Speaker 1: need you to come to this meeting. The sponsor this company.
Speaker 1: They want you in the meeting because it's important to
Speaker 1: them that they connect with you and all that. So
Speaker 1: I get to the meeting the CEO of the company.
Speaker 1: He looks at me and he says, we're looking at
Speaker 1: all the things that you and the organization, all the
Speaker 1: things you guys are doing in the community. We want
Speaker 1: to be a part of that. We're all about single mothers,
Speaker 1: we're all about so he rattled off, kind of their
Speaker 1: whole agenda when you guys do, aligns with what we're doing,
Speaker 1: and we're seeing you out there, and I am blessed
Speaker 1: that I get to be the face a lot. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have fabulous people all over the organization, but a
Speaker 1: lot of times I get to be the face. So
Speaker 1: the people think it's me, but it's everybody. And so
Speaker 1: he says, we want to have a relationship with the
Speaker 1: MAVs because of Saint Marshall and the things that you
Speaker 1: guys are doing. Now I know that's him saying because
Speaker 1: of the MATHS and because of our agenda, including Mark
Speaker 1: Qban and everybody else. Because this organization had a community
Speaker 1: focus before I got here. We just elevated it. My
Speaker 1: boss said, go okay, and so we just elevated it.
Speaker 1: Responded to the George Floyd incident, responded to COVID, I mean,
Speaker 1: we just took our game up. We have a whole
Speaker 1: social justice agenda called Maths Take Action. We are not
Speaker 1: playing about social justice. So we're doing a lot and
Speaker 1: people recognize that and because of that, they want to
Speaker 1: do business with this. We have two sponsors that came
Speaker 1: on board. Tia and Coca Cola. They actually said, we
Speaker 1: want to sponsor. We want to be a sponsor for
Speaker 1: Maths Take Action. That's crazy because we're doing math take
Speaker 1: Action anyway. But now people want to partner with us.
Speaker 1: We're making more money because people are seeing what we're
Speaker 1: doing and they want to partner with us. So by
Speaker 1: putting people first, you feel like more money can be made.
Speaker 1: There can be more money brought to the table. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: a lot of people view it as you know that
Speaker 1: those are conflicting ideas. Now when you hear people say
Speaker 1: a company does well by doing good, it's the truth.
Speaker 1: And I saw that with ATND. I saw us bring
Speaker 1: in a lot of different customers and partners because of
Speaker 1: the things that we were doing in the community, because
Speaker 1: of our focus with employee resource groups and diversity, equity inclusion.
Speaker 1: Supplier diversity is a good example I like to always use.
Speaker 1: You actually can show where you are spending less, where
Speaker 1: you're purchase spend is less when you have a diverse
Speaker 1: group of suppliers, but your quality has not lessened at all.
Speaker 1: I've seen that. I've seen. I saw it at ATNT
Speaker 1: and we are experiencing it right now at the MAVs.
Speaker 1: We just hit this week, like thirty one percent of
Speaker 1: our spend is going our purchasing spend is going to minority, women, disabled,
Speaker 1: veteran business owners. And we said, we said that target out,
Speaker 1: We said, we want to impact an influence and be
Speaker 1: a good We want to do good for those businesses,
Speaker 1: especially coming out of COVID because a lot of those
Speaker 1: businesses were struggling, and so our purchasing spend is down,
Speaker 1: but our product is even better because of doing business.
Speaker 1: Who wouldn't want that doing business with these diverse vendors.
Speaker 1: There is a bottom line dollars and cents equation to
Speaker 1: focusing on diversity, equity and inclusion, philanthropy and all that.
Speaker 1: It is very, very real. The diversity dividend is real.
Speaker 1: The return on investment and reaching out to community these
Speaker 1: and doing well and living up to your corporate social
Speaker 1: responsibility israel you make more money. There's another idea I'll say,
Speaker 1: floating around people my age, a little younger, a little older,
Speaker 1: perhaps be interesting to ask you about this, This idea
Speaker 1: of again, what's good for my company isn't necessarily good
Speaker 1: for me. That those are opposing ideas that not finding
Speaker 1: the right work life balance and having that skill to
Speaker 1: too much towards work. It's a detriment to you as
Speaker 1: a person, this idea of maybe quiet quitting, right, Like,
Speaker 1: how important is work really when when ultimately it doesn't
Speaker 1: add to my life? And so maybe I'm just going
Speaker 1: to do how do you approach work life balance? And okay,
Speaker 1: lord have marks? I have so many thoughts on that. Okay,
Speaker 1: first of all, I personally, so this is Cynthia Janelle
Speaker 1: Marshall here. Okay, there is no way in the world
Speaker 1: my kids and my family is going to be right
Speaker 1: here at the same level as my job. That's not happening. Okay.
Speaker 1: My family will always be up there and my job
Speaker 1: will always be there. What I try to do is
Speaker 1: what I call integration. There sometimes when I got to
Speaker 1: focus more on what I'm doing here, the season is
Speaker 1: getting ready to start and all that, and I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna be at home with the folks that are hanging
Speaker 1: around in my house, like my daughter today, my mom
Speaker 1: coming over to have lunch. Well, that's great, you can't
Speaker 1: eat with that lot. On my way out, I'm pulled
Speaker 1: a lot of the driveway right now, okay, And I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna just stop it, like have lunch with her. Okay,
Speaker 1: I get out with you. Okay, I's already planned, right,
Speaker 1: but I just integrated. You just do what you have
Speaker 1: to do. And not everybody's blessed to be able to
Speaker 1: do that where they can just kind of like pick
Speaker 1: and choose. But here's what you can do. You can
Speaker 1: identify your crystal balls and the rubber balls. And I
Speaker 1: wish I had and I wish I had my actual example.
Speaker 1: Imagine a crystal ball. You drop it, it shatters, it
Speaker 1: never comes back. I mean, you drop it's over Okay,
Speaker 1: rubber balls they bounced back. I can throw it to you,
Speaker 1: you'll catch it, maybe you'll do something with it. I
Speaker 1: can throw it over there to Aaron maybe maybe she'll
Speaker 1: drop it. I can throw it over here, maybe to David.
Speaker 1: Maybe he'll throw it back. Okay, who knows. Okay, but
Speaker 1: it's not urge you right now, you got time to
Speaker 1: fool with all that your crystal. It's urgent. You can't
Speaker 1: drop it. And so what I try to do on
Speaker 1: a regular basis is say what is crystal in my
Speaker 1: life right now that I cannot drop? What is rubber?
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a good example. When ATNT named
Speaker 1: me the president of ATNT in North Carolina, to go
Speaker 1: on and run the North Carolina and then eventually also
Speaker 1: the Virginia operation. It's a big job, okay. And since
Speaker 1: it was close to Washington, DC, they would ask me
Speaker 1: to come to Washington, DC periodically to help them with
Speaker 1: policymakers and big issues. And so one time they asked
Speaker 1: me if I could come and actually be there all week.
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, I got a great team here
Speaker 1: in North Carolina. They can carry the day. I can
Speaker 1: be there all week except for Wednesday afternoon. I can't
Speaker 1: be there on Wednesday afternoon. And so I said, because
Speaker 1: it's my son's first high school swim meet. And so
Speaker 1: they said, okay, great. So I get there Monday morning.
Speaker 1: We're in the meeting. They're laying out all the policymakers
Speaker 1: we have to meet with, and all the committee heads
Speaker 1: and the big wigs. The meetings are on Wednesday afternoon.
Speaker 1: And I said, I told you guys, I can't be
Speaker 1: here Wednesday afternoon. They're like simp, but these are people
Speaker 1: are important, blah blah blah. I said, no, no no, no,
Speaker 1: I told you guys. It was my son's first high
Speaker 1: school swim meet. That's a crystal ball. It's not a
Speaker 1: second high school swim meet. It's not his third. It's
Speaker 1: his first high school swim meet in a new school,
Speaker 1: in a new state. I'm not dropping this. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have the meetings. I don't even meet to have
Speaker 1: a Monday and Tuesday, and then I am flying home
Speaker 1: so I could be at his swim meet and then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fly right back and then we can finish out.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna have a move these people, So at
Speaker 1: first they start laughing, They're like, no, it's a swim meet.
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not just a swim meet. It's crystal ball.
Speaker 1: It's not like a swim practice. It's crystal ball. Okay,
Speaker 1: So of course I went home right and my boy
Speaker 1: looked up, and I'm convinced to this day he won
Speaker 1: that individual medley race because his mama, he's in the stands.
Speaker 1: He looked up for his daddy and his sister, and
Speaker 1: I was up there a smile that was important to me,
Speaker 1: and then I went right back. Okay. And a lot
Speaker 1: of times I'm not there, A lot of times i'm
Speaker 1: not at activities, I'm not there and all that, but
Speaker 1: I know what's important to me, and I know what's crystal,
Speaker 1: and I ask people to stop and do that because
Speaker 1: most things are rubber. Okay, a lot of things just
Speaker 1: actually don't matter. They'll come back later, you can pick
Speaker 1: them up later, somebody else to get them. But what
Speaker 1: is crystal? So I ask people to do that. And
Speaker 1: if people have things that are crystal in their life
Speaker 1: and they're working for an employer and they're somewhere where
Speaker 1: they just cannot handle the employer won't allow them to
Speaker 1: handle what's crystal, they need to reassess. They need to
Speaker 1: truly reassess is this the place I'm supposed to be?
Speaker 1: Because you can't live like that. And I truly believe
Speaker 1: that there are places when you know who you are,
Speaker 1: you know what your values are, there's a place for you.
Speaker 1: Somebody is waiting for you. Now, you're not gonna do
Speaker 1: anything crazy, or you're just gonna walk out and then
Speaker 1: you're gonna get home and say, Okay, how am I
Speaker 1: gonna buy bread and cheese? Yeah? Okay, like I can't eat.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna do anything like that. But it's time
Speaker 1: to start thinking about what you're going to do next,
Speaker 1: because you need to be You don't have to be
Speaker 1: smiling and running in cheery every day. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be walking in crying, and you shouldn't be leaving
Speaker 1: crying and your heart beating fast and you can barely breathe.
Speaker 1: You can't work like that, yeah, And sometimes it's Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of talking to your employer and
Speaker 1: telling them, Okay, so here's what's not working for me.
Speaker 1: Our employees do that, and then if it just ends
Speaker 1: up not working for you, then you have to start
Speaker 1: making some changes. If the employer won't make changes, then
Speaker 1: you have to start making changes. When we return, Dallas
Speaker 1: Mavericks CEO sint Marshall tells us why speaking up in
Speaker 1: the workplace is important and how she learned to pay
Speaker 1: attention to her whole job and not just the parts
Speaker 1: she liked. We're back with sint Marshall. You've also experienced
Speaker 1: a lot of personal tragedy in your life, yes, as
Speaker 1: you're ascending. Yes. And just for people don't know, I
Speaker 1: mean miscarriages, yes, four second try mester miscarriages. So I
Speaker 1: had to like deliver all these babies, you know, have
Speaker 1: him Mommy signed a death print to foot aroun All that. Okay,
Speaker 1: So four try it. I almost died a couple a
Speaker 1: few times. So four second try mester miscarriages. A daughter
Speaker 1: who was born four months prematurely, who died at six
Speaker 1: and a half months old. Um, husband, who's okay special, Okay,
Speaker 1: you did your homework. Yes, August when he first was
Speaker 1: the date that she passed away. And then I had
Speaker 1: a husband, my husband, he's still my husband thirty thirty
Speaker 1: nine years. But he ended up with brain damage. Um,
Speaker 1: and so they said he would never walk or talk again.
Speaker 1: And so he is walking and talk again. Okay. Um.
Speaker 1: And so uh, just you just kind of go through
Speaker 1: you just you get through it though, yea. But how
Speaker 1: do you cancer as well? I mean oh yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I forgot about the cancer. Okay, yeah, cancer. They don't
Speaker 1: think I would be here. People's like, come on now, okay,
Speaker 1: we all have problems. Yes, most of our problems. Aren't
Speaker 1: life or death your problem, right right? I mean, you've
Speaker 1: been through it. I've had life and death problems. How
Speaker 1: do you how do you allow yourself to still care
Speaker 1: about work and find it important? Okay, So I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example. When my daughter died, I relied on
Speaker 1: work that. Actually, I mean I relied on work almost
Speaker 1: to a fault, because that's how I actually became a workaholic.
Speaker 1: I actually had pretty decent schedule where I was working
Speaker 1: my little hours eight to ten and then I go home.
Speaker 1: After my daughter died, I just went full blown twelve fifteen,
Speaker 1: sixteen hour days because that was a distraction for me.
Speaker 1: But I needed it. I needed that distraction until one
Speaker 1: of my employees called it out and said, okay, long enough,
Speaker 1: because now we're all working those hours too long enough.
Speaker 1: So now let's get a handle on it. Let's see
Speaker 1: if you need therapy. What do you need to do
Speaker 1: now because you have decided that this job. One of
Speaker 1: your employees said that to you. One of my employees
Speaker 1: walked in my office, Carmen Cooper. She walked in my
Speaker 1: office one day and she goes, okay, since we need
Speaker 1: to talk, and they were like three other employees outside
Speaker 1: of her office. So I guess they had all been
Speaker 1: talking and so because I asked them to all come
Speaker 1: in and they said no, no, Carmen's company. And they
Speaker 1: said no, no, Carmen's company. And I'm like, okay, So
Speaker 1: Carmen comes in. She closes the door and she says, Boss,
Speaker 1: we need to talk. I said what she says, Um,
Speaker 1: we're all grieving the loss of special Ka. Obviously we're
Speaker 1: not grieving the loss like you're grieving. Okay, We've never
Speaker 1: had to bury our kids, but we're all grieving it too.
Speaker 1: You decided that the way you're going to handle it
Speaker 1: is to just try to ignore or it and just
Speaker 1: dig into work. Okay. So from the minute we all
Speaker 1: left the funeral that Friday until now, it's been all work.
Speaker 1: Our hours have doubled. I mean, she just laid it
Speaker 1: all out, she says, because obviously that's what you need
Speaker 1: to do, where you think you need to do to
Speaker 1: get through it. She says, been going on a few
Speaker 1: months now, and it needs to stop. You need to breathe,
Speaker 1: and you need to let us go home and breathe.
Speaker 1: It's out of hand now. I mean, she just thought
Speaker 1: she called me on it, and I said, no, no, girl,
Speaker 1: because we got this going on, and we got that
Speaker 1: going on. She said, We've always had that going on,
Speaker 1: but we didn't have to attack it at the pace
Speaker 1: that we're attacking it now. We're attacking it at the
Speaker 1: pace that we're attacking it now because you're putting all
Speaker 1: your energy and emotion into this because that's how you're grieving,
Speaker 1: and it's affecting all of us. So number one, yes,
Speaker 1: we are concerned about our work schedules, but more importantly,
Speaker 1: we are concerned about you. We think it's unhealthy and
Speaker 1: so we need to all talk about it. So then
Speaker 1: she opened up the door and the other ones came in,
Speaker 1: and then we just all cried and they were right,
Speaker 1: and we just kind of all dealt with it. It
Speaker 1: was a beautiful, beautiful thing. And did you start to oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we backed up, backup. They were right. I mean, they
Speaker 1: were absolutely right, and the quality was still great, it
Speaker 1: was even better. We were just like joined together at
Speaker 1: that point because they called it out. That's why the
Speaker 1: speak up culture is really important to me, and being
Speaker 1: able to walk in your boss's office and talk to
Speaker 1: them is so important because sometimes people will see things
Speaker 1: that you don't see. And I am just a workaholic
Speaker 1: by nature. I won't be in a job that I
Speaker 1: don't love. But every now and then you could just
Speaker 1: go too far with just pouring everything into it, and
Speaker 1: you need somebody to kind of just say stop. Like
Speaker 1: I just all my team members that people need to
Speaker 1: try to get their vacation time in. The schedule is out,
Speaker 1: the season is coming up come October twenty second. We're
Speaker 1: going to be in it until we win it all
Speaker 1: into right, hey, so get your time in. So so,
Speaker 1: and when you're going through things, sometimes you need other people.
Speaker 1: The people who are close to you. Work people are
Speaker 1: close to you, spend so much time with them. They
Speaker 1: can help you see what's going on. They can give
Speaker 1: you advice and all that and so, and that's something
Speaker 1: I also speaks to. I mean that goes back to again,
Speaker 1: like you making sure other people are taking care of yes,
Speaker 1: right then, but gets people feeling comfortable and going in respectfully.
Speaker 1: Kind of. It's a ripple effect. And it doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we'll experience losses and things happen,
Speaker 1: and then you'll see what happened there and you'll think, oh,
Speaker 1: I think we could have like avoided that loss, or
Speaker 1: I think we could you know, were we there for
Speaker 1: that person? I mean, so every now you'll something you
Speaker 1: say is one of your biggest missteps in business. If
Speaker 1: you had to look back, oh man, I've all been
Speaker 1: pretty charmed. But if oh no, I know this one.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love the question when they're saying, did
Speaker 1: anything ever like not work for you? Oh? Yes, I
Speaker 1: could give you a few examples, but this one in particular,
Speaker 1: and I'll try to make it quick. It was back
Speaker 1: when I got my first big, my big director job.
Speaker 1: I mean I had like a small one before then,
Speaker 1: and so I was over like all the installation and
Speaker 1: maintenance crews and like thousands of people. So I said,
Speaker 1: I'm getting to know everybody. I gotta be out there.
Speaker 1: I gotta know what the technicians do. I gotta know
Speaker 1: what the inside maintenance administrators do. I just kind of
Speaker 1: like them because I didn't really know this area of
Speaker 1: the business, right. So in order to learn this business,
Speaker 1: I said, I got to be out there with the people. Okay,
Speaker 1: I went to pole climbing school. I mean all that
Speaker 1: I interacted with the union, I mean the works right.
Speaker 1: And then I got totally out of balance, because when
Speaker 1: you're a leader, there's a whole job that has to
Speaker 1: be done. There's kind of like the paperwork and the
Speaker 1: process and the audits and the reviews. There's stuff you
Speaker 1: have to do as a leader, stuff that you have
Speaker 1: to have your eye on. You have to run your business,
Speaker 1: you got to pay attention to the details. You don't
Speaker 1: have to be in the weeds with your people. Let
Speaker 1: them do their jobs. But there are just certain things
Speaker 1: as a leader, I have to look at so reports,
Speaker 1: I have to look at certain things I need to do.
Speaker 1: And so I used to have this model that was
Speaker 1: as ridiculous as what I told Norm McBride. Okay, I
Speaker 1: used to have this model that says, I do my
Speaker 1: people work by day and my paperwork by night. Meeting,
Speaker 1: I'd be out in the field with the people. I'm
Speaker 1: going to get to know these people. I'm a hands
Speaker 1: on leader. I love these people. I got listened to
Speaker 1: a learn from all that, right, and then I would
Speaker 1: get around and all this other stuff on my desk,
Speaker 1: the paperwork and stuff I do that at night. I
Speaker 1: take that home. And so sometimes I take it home
Speaker 1: and I'd work long hours and I'd get it done,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm like, I'm just too tired. I'm exhausted. Well,
Speaker 1: this one night, I'm actually looking at a report and
Speaker 1: I found some anomalies in the report and it actually
Speaker 1: was somebody actually engaged in some unethical activity. And I
Speaker 1: kept looking. I said something right, and I'm a numbers person, right,
Speaker 1: and I said, these numbers aren't adding up. So then
Speaker 1: I go in the next day and I asked for
Speaker 1: the previous month's report, and I asked for the month
Speaker 1: before that. So then I went back quite a few months,
Speaker 1: and the anomaly is there. Now. I didn't see it,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't see it because I was out
Speaker 1: there doing people work by day and my paperwork by night.
Speaker 1: If I could get to it this particular night, I
Speaker 1: focused on it. Previous months I had not focused on it.
Speaker 1: I missed it, like I flat out missed it. So
Speaker 1: then of course I gotta raise the flag. And so
Speaker 1: I gotta raise the flag. I gotta do the investigation.
Speaker 1: I gotta do all this, and so we uncover everything.
Speaker 1: And so I'm feeling pretty good about myself because I
Speaker 1: found the problem. Or should I have really been feeling
Speaker 1: good about myself? No, because I should have found it
Speaker 1: a long time ago. And that's what my bosses had
Speaker 1: to tell me, like, since this is great, but like,
Speaker 1: you weren't paying attention. And so then I was cutting
Speaker 1: up and just like, oh I found it, I was
Speaker 1: paying attention. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah, And
Speaker 1: it actually took me months. It took me months to
Speaker 1: actually accept accountability for my role in what had happened.
Speaker 1: And it truly came down to not doing the whole job,
Speaker 1: focusing on the pieces that I liked, or the pieces
Speaker 1: that I felt work important, even if I didn't like it. Okay,
Speaker 1: the pieces that I felt were important. Well, at that level,
Speaker 1: it's all important. But you have to set priorities and
Speaker 1: you have to figure out how to do that whole job.
Speaker 1: Because I know there's a whole job to do, and
Speaker 1: there's nobody else to do my whole job except me,
Speaker 1: and so I give that advice a lot. Do the
Speaker 1: whole job. Know what that whole job is. Understand when
Speaker 1: you get it in a new, big position like that,
Speaker 1: what is the scope of this job? What has to
Speaker 1: be done in this job? What do you think you
Speaker 1: need to do to be effective? And then do it
Speaker 1: and not just get sucked up into fun stuff or
Speaker 1: the stuff you like or the stuff that somebody else
Speaker 1: thinks is a priority. Because you know there's a whole
Speaker 1: job to be done, and when you find out that
Speaker 1: there are some negative consequences for not doing that whole job,
Speaker 1: there's nobody to blame but yourself. Right. I learned it
Speaker 1: the hard way. You have a whole hell of a
Speaker 1: whole job right now. I love my job of an
Speaker 1: NBA team, the Dallas Mavericks sent Marshall. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: It's like as as as incredible as it was to
Speaker 1: read your book, which and then there's so much more
Speaker 1: in there that we you know, we could we couldn't
Speaker 1: get you. I could talk to you for hours. To
Speaker 1: have the pleasure of sitting with you and feeling your spirit,
Speaker 1: it's even better than I couldn't imagine. Thank you so much. Opportion,
Speaker 1: keep for coming in there, thank you for flying out
Speaker 1: just to like talk to me. I'm feeling pretty special
Speaker 1: right now. I'm gonna do it again. Saint Marshall, y'all.
Speaker 1: I got done talking with her and literally felt like
Speaker 1: I had just went to the best version of church imaginable.
Speaker 1: Her advice is so solid and also simple. I find
Speaker 1: myself repeating her crystal ball rubber ball litmus test. And
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about her a lot this entire school
Speaker 1: year as I figured out how to prioritize work and
Speaker 1: also my kids schedule. Her book, You've been chosen. Driving
Speaker 1: through the Unexpected is everything this conversation was and more.
Speaker 1: In fact, it's the only book I could think of
Speaker 1: that's made me cry both times of reading. Started from
Speaker 1: the Bottom is produced by David Jaw, edited by Keishaw Williams,
Speaker 1: Engineered by Bent Holliday, Booked by Laura Morgan with production
Speaker 1: help from Lea Rose. The show's executive produced by Jacob Goldstein,
Speaker 1: who's not all up in the videos for Pushkin Industries.
Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Bent Hoaliday and David Jaw featuring
Speaker 1: Anthony Yaggs and Stvannah Joe Lack. Listen to Start It
Speaker 1: from the Bottom. Wherever you get your podcasts and if
Speaker 1: you want ad free episodes available one week early sign
Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin dot fm or
Speaker 1: the Apple show page for more information. If you like
Speaker 1: your show, please remember to share, rate, and review us
Speaker 1: on your podcast staff. I'm justin Richmond.