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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Shocks on a You Need Therapy podcast. My name is Cat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you are new, couch

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Speaker 1: Talks is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: that comes out every Wednesday where I answer questions that

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Speaker 1: you guys email to me and you can email them

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Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now,

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Speaker 1: quick reminder be where we get into anything. Although I'm

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Speaker 1: answering your questions directly here, this still is not therapy

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Speaker 1: and does not serve as a substitute or replacement to therapy.

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Speaker 1: But it's still can have an impact on your growth

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Speaker 1: and your mental health and all of the things. So

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Speaker 1: it's still can make a difference. But this itself is

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Speaker 1: not therapy. Now, each week I tried to answer one

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Speaker 1: question from you guys, and I am really excited about

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Speaker 1: this week's question, so let's just get straight into it. Hey, Kat,

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Speaker 1: I've really been loving the episodes you've put out recently

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Speaker 1: about diet culture and dieting, and my favorites of yours

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Speaker 1: in the past have all been the ones about body image.

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Speaker 1: I've struggled with disordered eating and negative body image basically

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Speaker 1: my whole life, and hearing what you have to say

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Speaker 1: has really made a difference in how I think now.

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Speaker 1: I am notably a perfectionist, so when I want to

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Speaker 1: do something, I want to do it right, which leads

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Speaker 1: me to my questions and what I'm currently struggling with.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm out of place in my recovery,

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Speaker 1: where I don't necessarily love what my body looks like.

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Speaker 1: But I'm no longer letting how I feel about that

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Speaker 1: have a constant impact on how I feel about myself

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Speaker 1: and what I eat and how much I work out. However,

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Speaker 1: I do still really care about what I look like.

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Speaker 1: I get botox every three to four months, I have

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Speaker 1: my hair colored, I spend a lot of time picking

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Speaker 1: out what I wear, and I like wearing makeup when

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Speaker 1: I go out places. I'm just confused because I don't

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Speaker 1: really think any of these things are bad or wrong,

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Speaker 1: and I do realize that I'm still being influenced by

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Speaker 1: the beauty industry in some way. I feel better about

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Speaker 1: myself when i've makeup on, and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this is okay. I like wearing makeup, I like getting

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Speaker 1: my hair done, I like shopping and staying up to

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Speaker 1: date with fashion trends and styles. But does that mean

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Speaker 1: I am still struggling with negative body image. I'm confused,

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Speaker 1: and I just don't know where the line is. So

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Speaker 1: I guess my question is, where is the line? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So I think I might have answered something like this

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Speaker 1: in the past, but I can't even remember when. And

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Speaker 1: I get questions like this a lot that do ask

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Speaker 1: like what's okay and what's not okay when it comes

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Speaker 1: to working on positive body image and also caring about

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Speaker 1: what you look like. And I also was talking about

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Speaker 1: this with a friend last night about our own lives,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to bring it up with all

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Speaker 1: of you all because this is really confusing. I think

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Speaker 1: what has gotten really confusing is the difference in something

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Speaker 1: being harmful to the quality of somebody's life and their

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Speaker 1: mental health and then just like caring about what you

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Speaker 1: look like and having a preference when it comes to

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Speaker 1: imagine how you present yourself. I think it's okay to

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Speaker 1: care about what you look like. I think it's okay,

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Speaker 1: it's normal, and that really isn't the problem, And in

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Speaker 1: some regards, I think it's actually a good thing that

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Speaker 1: we care about what we look like. We're never going

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Speaker 1: to be in a world that is like totally free

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Speaker 1: from like all social norms, ever and all expectations. By

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Speaker 1: the way, not all social norms and expectations are bad.

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Speaker 1: Some of them really help us have a kind morally

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Speaker 1: sound society. And so what I really think is the

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Speaker 1: problem is when unrealistic expectations and unrealistic norms are pushed

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Speaker 1: towards the general public as things that we should all

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Speaker 1: be able to attain. And I mean, I've talked about

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Speaker 1: on here the issue I have with a lot of

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Speaker 1: influencers that present as people who are just like us,

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Speaker 1: and then they have these lives and they look this way,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, they're just like us, so I

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Speaker 1: should be able to look like that when we don't

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Speaker 1: look like that, and we can't afford to make our

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Speaker 1: kitchen counters look as clean and sparkly as that, and

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Speaker 1: we can't have a meal like that prepared every day,

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Speaker 1: and we can't have a full outfit in full face

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Speaker 1: of makeup on every day when we're taking care of

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Speaker 1: our three young kids, because it's not our job to

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Speaker 1: be an influencer. And those influencers, those lifestyle influencers a

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Speaker 1: lot of times that's their full time job. But you

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Speaker 1: have an actual job or an actual whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that doesn't allow you the same space and time. So

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Speaker 1: something that's being presented as attainable and you should be

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Speaker 1: able to do this, I'm just like you, is actually

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Speaker 1: very unrealistic. So that's really where more of the issues

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Speaker 1: come from when it comes to what we're talking about

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Speaker 1: with this question. If we're gonna stick with just bodies

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Speaker 1: and body image, it's unrealistic for every human out there

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Speaker 1: to be able to have the same body of someone

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Speaker 1: like an influencer, like well, I hate using this person's name,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to because it came to my head.

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Speaker 1: Jillian Michael's who her job is dedicated to fitness and dieting.

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Speaker 1: So it's not realistic for us to be able to

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Speaker 1: attain what she looks like in the lifestyle she has

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Speaker 1: because that is actually her job, that is what her

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Speaker 1: life is literally revolving around. So people ask where where

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Speaker 1: is the line? So this person is asking where is

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Speaker 1: the line? Like when is it okay? And like when

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Speaker 1: am my is it going too far? Like am I

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Speaker 1: allowed to care about this? How much? Am I allowed

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Speaker 1: to care about this. So where is the line when

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Speaker 1: it comes to beauty and health and wellness and fitness

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Speaker 1: and eating disorders and body image. And the answer is

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Speaker 1: it's a very quickly line. The line can be different

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Speaker 1: for different people. It depends on who you are. I

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Speaker 1: cannot extract caring about what you look like from someone's

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Speaker 1: brain as a therapist. And like I said, it's not

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Speaker 1: caring about what you look like that's bad or wrong

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Speaker 1: or harmful. What I see the issues are one the

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Speaker 1: deceptive messaging that promotes an unattainable norm. Then to the

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Speaker 1: lengths we are willing to go to obtain the unattainable

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Speaker 1: norm that is being presented in the deceptive messaging, and

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Speaker 1: then three how we feel when we cannot attain the

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Speaker 1: unrealistic norm from that deceptive messaging. We are a hun

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Speaker 1: resent being influenced by images and the media and what

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Speaker 1: a woman should look like and what a man should

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Speaker 1: look like and all of that. The beauty industry plays

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Speaker 1: a role in how we think and what we think

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Speaker 1: is good or bad. Pretty ugly totally. And as I'm

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Speaker 1: saying this, I'm actually being reminded of this clip I

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Speaker 1: saw of Victoria Garrick who has a podcast called The

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Speaker 1: Real Pod, and after I saw this clip, I started

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Speaker 1: following her and I love her. In one day, I

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Speaker 1: hope to have her on the podcast and I'll post

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Speaker 1: it as well, but I want to share it because

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Speaker 1: she was talking about the issues and why we are

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Speaker 1: constantly feeling bad about ourselves. And so just listen to

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Speaker 1: this and then we'll come back. Let me tell you

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Speaker 1: how work society has created a beauty standard that is unattainable.

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Speaker 1: It is from the get go impossible, it cannot be met.

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Speaker 1: And then the diet culture industry says, if you want

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Speaker 1: to reach this thing here by these things, try this diet,

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Speaker 1: by this workout plan, by this food, and it'll help

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Speaker 1: you get to this place. But it doesn't work, and

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Speaker 1: more often than not, it will just lead to disordered

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Speaker 1: eating habits. But even if you get very close, like

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Speaker 1: a Kim Kardashian, you still have the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world saying not good enough, not for me. So regardless

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Speaker 1: of if you even get to this place, you are

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Speaker 1: never going to get a unanimous vote from the world

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Speaker 1: that says, yep, you're beautiful. There's always people disagreeing. Oh,

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Speaker 1: and the reason why this beauty standard keeps changing is

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Speaker 1: because as long as we are unhappy with ourselves, they

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Speaker 1: keep making money. The day that we wake up and

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Speaker 1: say I'm good enough, I don't want to change anything

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Speaker 1: about my appearance or my body. What are they selling?

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Speaker 1: Who are they selling to? There's no audience. So as

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Speaker 1: as long as we are unhappy with ourselves, they continue

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Speaker 1: to make money. So again, the issue isn't really that

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Speaker 1: we care about what we look like. Issues that we'll

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Speaker 1: never be able to meet societal standards, will never be

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Speaker 1: able to keep up. So this all comes down to

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Speaker 1: really looking at the why behind our what Why are

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Speaker 1: you wearing makeup? Why are you getting botox? Why are

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Speaker 1: you wearing that outfit? Is it solely to fit into

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Speaker 1: a mold that you actually can't fit in to write?

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Speaker 1: Then there's a conversation there, because you're never going to

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Speaker 1: be satisfied and it's gonna be like you're always chasing

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Speaker 1: something or is the reason you're doing that? Is the why?

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Speaker 1: Because I like to have fun and playing with makeup.

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Speaker 1: It's fun. I feel good when I'm wearing this kind

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Speaker 1: of outfit. This is helps me showcase my personality. That

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Speaker 1: right there is a different conversation some people have different preferences.

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Speaker 1: So some people care about botox because they think that

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Speaker 1: smoother skin is is prettier, and so they want to

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Speaker 1: do that. And some people could care less and they

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Speaker 1: like the natural aging process. That's totally fine. Again, that's

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Speaker 1: not the issues. Some people want blonde hair, some people

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Speaker 1: want gray hair, some people want purple hair. Doing that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff and coloring your hair and having fun

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Speaker 1: with different looks and all that not the issue at all.

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Speaker 1: This really becomes a problem when without these things, um

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Speaker 1: and the absence of them, we've lost our sense of worthiness.

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Speaker 1: So am I doing these? Dis goes back to the

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Speaker 1: why am I doing these? Because this makes me feel worthy?

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Speaker 1: These things make me feel lovable. When all of that

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Speaker 1: is tied to your worth and your ability to be

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Speaker 1: loved and be seen and cared for by others, that's

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Speaker 1: when we have to look at Okay, where are we

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Speaker 1: going with this? Because how far are you going to

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Speaker 1: go to get that worthiness or to feel that lovable nous?

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Speaker 1: Because if we're chasing an unrealistic standard or norm, we're

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Speaker 1: going to get in some trouble. Now, I'm a big believer,

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Speaker 1: and do what makes you happy, and do what makes

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Speaker 1: you feel good as long as it's not hurting you

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Speaker 1: or others in the process. So to what lengths are

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Speaker 1: you going to go to to change your body or

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Speaker 1: to look a certain way. I don't have issues with

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Speaker 1: people getting plastic surgery or changing the way they look

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Speaker 1: at all unless it's actually causing harm to themselves or

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Speaker 1: others in some way. And that's where I can't really

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Speaker 1: answer this question like black and white, because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of different scenarios that could pop up. Are the

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Speaker 1: lengths that we're going to change what we look like safe?

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Speaker 1: Are you becoming addicted to these so despite negative consequences,

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Speaker 1: are we continuing to engage in these things? Like am

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Speaker 1: I going into debt to have different procedures done, or

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Speaker 1: to buy certain clothes or to have my hair done?

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Speaker 1: Am I having adverse reactions to whether it's botox or

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Speaker 1: some kind of product I'm using, I'm continuing to use it.

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Speaker 1: I really could care less how much botox somebody gets

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Speaker 1: in the sense of if I think it looks good

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Speaker 1: or if I think it looks bad, what I think

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter as a human and as a therapist, it's

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Speaker 1: what are the lengths that you're going to to have

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Speaker 1: this done, and is it causing you harm in some

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Speaker 1: other way in your life? Are you for going certain

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Speaker 1: bills right to afford to pay to whether it's to

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Speaker 1: get your nails done or to get botox. I'm saying

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Speaker 1: botox because that was in the question. But am I

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Speaker 1: avoiding things that actually are necessary my Are my taking

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Speaker 1: money from my grocery budget to get my nails done?

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Speaker 1: And so then I don't have enough food to eat

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Speaker 1: That's when this becomes actually an issue and another thing

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Speaker 1: that actually has been being challenged more and more. I've

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Speaker 1: been seeing this on TikTok and I have some clients

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Speaker 1: that have been talking about this more recently. Is who

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Speaker 1: are you doing this stuff for? So? Who am I

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Speaker 1: dressing for? Who am I getting botox for? Who am

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Speaker 1: I getting my hair done for? And something that's been

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Speaker 1: coming up over and over on TikTok is are you

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Speaker 1: doing it for the male gays to attract attention from

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Speaker 1: essentially heterosexual men and the mail gays? In a simple explanation,

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Speaker 1: we could do a whole episode on this as well.

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Speaker 1: Is basically a theory that basically claims that our world,

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Speaker 1: our society is viewed through the really the lens of

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Speaker 1: the masculine heterosexual perspective. So in this theory, men are

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Speaker 1: constantly objectifying women, and they're seeing more or less as

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Speaker 1: these sexual objects. And so if we're dressing for the

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Speaker 1: male gays, it's argues that we've been essentially conditioned to

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Speaker 1: dress to please men versus please ourselves. And we've been

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Speaker 1: getting ready and dressing and putting ourselves together in a

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Speaker 1: way that a man will find attractive verse a way

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Speaker 1: that helps us express ourselves feel good, or just like

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Speaker 1: essentially where what we want to wear? And I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of beauty standards have been created around this.

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Speaker 1: I do see that, and I want to do some

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Speaker 1: more research and some and some more have some more

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Speaker 1: conversations around that. But I think that speaks very highly

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Speaker 1: into this initial question of like where's the line. Well,

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Speaker 1: as we ask ourselves, what's the why behind our what?

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Speaker 1: And is this causing us harm? Is this taking away

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Speaker 1: from the quality of our life? Is my world revolving

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Speaker 1: around this? We also need to ask ourselves the question

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Speaker 1: like why am I doing this? Who am I doing

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Speaker 1: this for? Because when it comes to you that's totally okay.

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Speaker 1: Like it is okay to have fun with different hairstyles,

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Speaker 1: it's okay to have fun with different um styles of

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Speaker 1: clothing and outfits and makeup, Like that's okay. And I

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Speaker 1: actually think that's kind of like an art form in

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Speaker 1: a sense, like makeup is an art. Makeup artists, like fashion,

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Speaker 1: that's an art. It's a way to express ourselves. So

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Speaker 1: when it comes to all this stuff, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to trying to figure out, like can I still be

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Speaker 1: engaging in this lifestyle that I want to promote, like

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Speaker 1: positivity towards myself and love towards myself. Can I still

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Speaker 1: engage in this and also care about what I look like? Yes,

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Speaker 1: Because when it comes down to it, how I said,

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Speaker 1: like some societal norms aren't bad and they actually are good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if it's part of getting our hair done or going

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Speaker 1: and getting a facial, or you can box dye your

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Speaker 1: hair in your house, or buying a new shirt or

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Speaker 1: any of that kind of stuff, or playing with a

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Speaker 1: new makeup, like that can be part of like your

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Speaker 1: self care and self love routine, Like you're doing this

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Speaker 1: to give attention and have fun with yourself and express

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Speaker 1: yourself and play around with different modes of doing that.

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Speaker 1: So when I think about positive body image and body

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Speaker 1: positivity and negative body image and body and trialdy and

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Speaker 1: all that, this is how I really see that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Negative body image is when my body and how I

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Speaker 1: see it, what it looks like, has a direct impact

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Speaker 1: in whether I feel okay about myself. Where I feel

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Speaker 1: like crap, it is tied to my worthiness. Positive body image,

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Speaker 1: this is my definition of them to me is I

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Speaker 1: can see myself and not love what I look like.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to be obsessed with every part of

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Speaker 1: my body, but I can still love myself and know

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Speaker 1: that I'm worthy of love from others as well. So

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Speaker 1: in the same regards, when I'm doing all of these things,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I get my hair done, I get botox,

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Speaker 1: I care about what I wear. Sometimes oftentimes I'm wearing

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Speaker 1: leggings to work, but I enjoy shopping and all of that.

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Speaker 1: So I get those things done. And in the same time,

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Speaker 1: I'm not chasing after an image that I saw on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: because I'm very aware that a lot of those images

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Speaker 1: are fake. I'm chase seen after something that feels good

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Speaker 1: to me. And if I were not able to get

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Speaker 1: botox ever again in my life, I would be okay,

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Speaker 1: and it would not take away my ability to know

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Speaker 1: that I'm worthy of love and belonging from myself and

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Speaker 1: the others around me. So, like I said, the line

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Speaker 1: is squiggly, and I want to encourage you to ask

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Speaker 1: what's the why behind my what? And who am I

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Speaker 1: doing this for? And if I cannot do this, what

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Speaker 1: is going to happen? What would be the consequence the consequences, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'd just be kind of bummed. All right, Well, I'd

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Speaker 1: be kind of bummed if I could never go shopping again.

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Speaker 1: I'd be kind of bummed if I could never get

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Speaker 1: my hair done again. I am, at the same time,

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Speaker 1: not going to think that I'm a worthless human being

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Speaker 1: that nobody's going to love. And also keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: are the things that I'm doing impacting me in a

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Speaker 1: negative way? Are there? Am I? Am? I experiencing negative consequences?

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Speaker 1: Um continuing to do these things. Just like in our

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Speaker 1: disordered eating patterns, we will continue to engage in these

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Speaker 1: behaviors that end up hurting us, but we're continuing to

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Speaker 1: do them to get this thing which at the end

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Speaker 1: of the road, we think is love and belonging. But

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Speaker 1: I'm continuing to not nourish myself, or I'm over exercising,

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Speaker 1: that I'm experiencing injuries, and I'm still doing it because

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Speaker 1: I think if I lose this weight, or I win

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Speaker 1: this race, or I do this workout, then I will

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Speaker 1: be more lovable. So that's when those negative consequences are

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Speaker 1: coming in and we're ignoring them to fight for this thing.

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Speaker 1: Is that it's actually not at the end of that

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Speaker 1: rope that we've created in our minds. So all those

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Speaker 1: things are going to be really helpful in you deciding

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Speaker 1: if this is in front of the line, behind the

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Speaker 1: line for you, and if it's hard to tease that

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Speaker 1: out and your by yourself and you need some accountability,

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Speaker 1: I want to encourage you to reach out to a

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Speaker 1: safe friend, reach out to a therapist, talk about this

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Speaker 1: because a lot of times the conversations that we're having

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Speaker 1: around this, once we start talking about it, we can

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Speaker 1: very easily become more aware of if we are doing

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Speaker 1: something that it's in line with our value system or

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Speaker 1: out of our value system, and if it's hurting us

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Speaker 1: or helping us. But sometimes we need that dialogue that's

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Speaker 1: outside of our head to really really see and notice that.

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Speaker 1: So I hope this was helpful and if you have

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Speaker 1: more questions, remember as always, email me Catherine at you

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast dot com. This is a hard, tricky thing,

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Speaker 1: like most things that you guys email me about, but

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Speaker 1: I am here to continue this conversation because I think

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Speaker 1: it's important and if we don't talk about it, then

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Speaker 1: we're just going to make stuff up in our heads. Right.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me at cat dot de fata and

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Speaker 1: at you Need Therapy Podcast on Instagram if you want

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Speaker 1: to do that as well, and don't forget that you

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Speaker 1: can always choose to rate and subscribe to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can now write on Spotify, so I would love

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Speaker 1: if you did that as well, And thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: I will talk to you guys on Monday. Bye guys,