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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: Every business day, we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

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Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news.

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Speaker 1: Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash

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Speaker 1: podcast at Miller Paul Sweeney live here in a Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Interactive Brokers studio. John is just reporting on American Express

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Speaker 1: AXP blockbuster numbers beat estimates, looks like a record quarter.

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Speaker 1: Stocks down to four percent, So I'm sure the market

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Speaker 1: Maybe I guess didn't link the guidance here. Let's check

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Speaker 1: with somebody who actually knows this stuff, Ben Elliott. He's

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Speaker 1: an analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence covering in the consumer financials

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Speaker 1: and that includes American Express. Ben, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us here. What's the takeaway from our good friends

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Speaker 1: at American Express?

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Speaker 3: Look, Paul, Amex is still the best card company to

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Speaker 3: own if you're gonna be interested in this space. But

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Speaker 3: you know, the macro fears are winning on the entire industry.

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Speaker 3: You know they're they're essentially plays on GDP, and with

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Speaker 3: people afraid of a recession to come, you know, MX

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Speaker 3: can't kind of escape what's weighing down the entire sector,

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Speaker 3: even though they're probably twice as good as their nearest peer.

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Speaker 2: In what sense are they twice as good? You mean

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Speaker 2: in terms of profit margins, in terms of returning money

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Speaker 2: to investors, in terms of you know what, growing the

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Speaker 2: top line?

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Speaker 4: How are they so much better?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean basically everything you mentioned.

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Speaker 5: They're running.

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Speaker 3: Loan growth runs well above peers, charge offs run less

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Speaker 3: than half the rate of their peers. You know, ROE

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Speaker 3: in the in the mid to high thirties, which is

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Speaker 3: really the envy of everyone in the card industry. So

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Speaker 3: if you have to kind of bet on one, and

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Speaker 3: really the core of MX is the super premium consumer base.

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Speaker 3: You know, these are people paying seven hundred dollars a

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Speaker 3: year to swipe their Platinum card. So if you have

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Speaker 3: to bet on one group of consumers doing well in

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Speaker 3: a recession, it would be MS cardholders.

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Speaker 1: See, I'm I stick with the classic green card. Not many, dude, No,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm classic old school green AMEX.

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Speaker 4: That still has cachet for me.

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Speaker 2: I got the Platinum card with little flowers painted on it.

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Speaker 2: They may be painted. And I felt so special until

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Speaker 2: I read this story that they've got. They've attracted new

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Speaker 2: cardholders at like a record pace in the top tier,

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Speaker 2: And actually I already felt this. I already feel this

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Speaker 2: when I go to the America Express Platinum Lounge at

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Speaker 2: the airport and there are more people trying to get

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Speaker 2: in the Platinum lounge than like going to McDonald's. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's like, I don't feel at all special anymore.

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Speaker 2: Is that a problem?

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Speaker 5: You think, Well, here's the other side of that. That's for.

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Speaker 3: The other side of that equation, Matt, is that they

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Speaker 3: spend a massive amount of money on marketing five and

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Speaker 3: a half billion this year, targeting the same next year,

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Speaker 3: and you know, they have to provide benefits to their

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Speaker 3: customers to keep signing up new cards at the rate

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Speaker 3: they've been doing. So their their card fees, which are

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Speaker 3: really a key part of key a key earnings lever.

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Speaker 3: Over the last year, growth there slowing. So I think

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Speaker 3: some of some of what you're seeing in the market

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Speaker 3: today is probably seeing some of these key growth areas

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Speaker 3: coming starting to slow.

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Speaker 1: What's a difference, if any bend between a you know,

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Speaker 1: an Amex card holder and a VISA cardholder, is there

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Speaker 1: different spending? I guess levels trends.

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Speaker 4: How do you think about that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Amex is very focused on travel and entertainment.

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Speaker 3: Both of those things have lagged in the post pandemic recovery.

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Speaker 3: So that's kind of given MS these sort of long

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Speaker 3: legs to do better over the last couple of quarters.

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Speaker 3: And some of their peers who are more focused on

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Speaker 3: you know, every day spend good and services gas stations

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Speaker 3: for instance. So you know you saw a Discover report

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Speaker 3: a couple of days ago. Their provisions almost doubled, and

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Speaker 3: that's kind of reflecting their middle market consumer who's really

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Speaker 3: being hit by UH inflation at the gas pump. UH

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Speaker 3: And and for the most part, MS customers are not

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Speaker 3: hit by that. You know, they're out there buying Taylor

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Speaker 3: Swift concert tickets, you know, traveling to Europe, those kinds

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Speaker 3: of things, all right, To.

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Speaker 1: Be honest, the only time I use my MX card

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Speaker 1: really just want to use my corporate MX for business travel.

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Speaker 4: What's Amex.

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Speaker 2: That's because Paul walks around in the world with a

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Speaker 2: giant roll of cash. I'm not joking, right, So he

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Speaker 2: always has like a ton of Benjamins in his pocket. Still, okay,

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Speaker 2: you just set him up to be most when walking.

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Speaker 2: It's unusual, is my point. Not everybody.

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Speaker 5: Why don't you describe them?

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Speaker 6: Look at people exactly.

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Speaker 1: I'll be walking out of the office at one o

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Speaker 1: five today, So Ben, what are they saying about business, travel,

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Speaker 1: business spend?

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Speaker 5: UH?

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Speaker 3: So business is people think of it as sort of

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Speaker 3: a core part of MX's UH customer base, but it's,

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Speaker 3: you know, an increasingly less relevant part nowadays. The biggest

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Speaker 3: growth engine is the US card business, and a third

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Speaker 3: of that is millennials and gen Z's really so, you know,

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Speaker 3: MX is forward thinking. You know, they're still serving their

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Speaker 3: corporate customers, but it's not sort of a key part

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Speaker 3: of the value proposition anymore on the growth side as

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Speaker 3: they look forward.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not the so in the past when

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Speaker 2: you wanted the ultimate credit card, You've got the American

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Speaker 2: Expressed Platinum card. Right now they are these there's this

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Speaker 2: whole line of Sapphire cards which are I think visas

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Speaker 2: are MasterCard. But you know other banks have offered competing products.

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Speaker 2: Do you see competition hotting up against MS?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, competition is is huge. It's always been huge in

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Speaker 3: the space, especially a sort of top wallet share. You know,

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Speaker 3: every every card company is opening an airline lounge, so

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Speaker 3: you know, it's been the case for the last twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's always calling out MS saying they're catching up.

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Speaker 5: They're catching up.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the they do the necessary investment every year.

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Speaker 3: They're going to spend five and a half billion again

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Speaker 3: next year, and their card is on about a three

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Speaker 3: year refresh cycle, so you know, in the next year

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Speaker 3: or two we're coming up probably on another refresh we'll

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Speaker 3: see them, if anything, add to the value proposition and

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Speaker 3: probably raise the fee.

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Speaker 2: The shares are at a three year refresh cycle. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we're right where we were at the beginning of twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Are they going to move higher?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So amex is still quite fully valued relative to their peers.

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Speaker 3: They're trading about four x book, which is way out

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Speaker 3: of line with the one and a half x of

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Speaker 3: the peer group and their thirteen fourteen x price to earnings.

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Speaker 3: So I think some of the pressure you're seeing there is. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they've set ambitious growth targets and they've met them over

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Speaker 3: the last couple of years, but you can only grow

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Speaker 3: so fast off of big base. So I think the

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Speaker 3: market is getting a little bit skeptical of the ten

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Speaker 3: percent revenue growth target in the forward years, and so

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Speaker 3: I think that's what you're seeing reflected in the stock today.

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Speaker 1: All right, Ben, thanks so much for joining us. Ben Elliott,

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Speaker 1: he covers all the consumer financial companies for Bloomberg Intelligence's

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Speaker 1: based down in Washington, DC. Amex put up some big,

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Speaker 1: big numbers. Stocks off about three or four percent. Though

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe John Tucker suggestive, you know, by the rumor,

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Speaker 1: sell the news, or maybe the guidance here probably.

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Speaker 4: Was a little bit less than stellar.

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Speaker 6: You're listening to the team Ken's are Live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern.

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Speaker 5: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 6: App, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand

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Speaker 6: wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: All right, listening to FED Chairman j Pal yesterday at

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Speaker 1: the Economic Club of New York in his speech and

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Speaker 1: then in his fireside chat with Bloomberg's David Weston, I

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Speaker 1: came away and I think the market came away with

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Speaker 1: all Right, the FED is going to stay on hold here,

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Speaker 1: but they're also keeping future hikes on the table. That

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Speaker 1: seemed to be the message, and that seemed to be

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Speaker 1: the consistent message. Let's see if it's if it's the

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Speaker 1: same message that the good folks at City are talking about.

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Speaker 1: Steven Whiting, he's a chief investment strategists at City Global.

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Speaker 1: Well so Steve, And again it appears that this federal

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Speaker 1: reserve is comfortable worth where we are on rates here,

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Speaker 1: maybe even another rate hike on the table. Is that

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Speaker 1: how you guys are thinking about it over there at Citygroup.

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Speaker 7: I think that was the message of Chairman Powell. He

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Speaker 7: acknowledged that we're making progress. Of course, he pointed to

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Speaker 7: backward looking inflation is still too high. It's always kind

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Speaker 7: of difficult to have core inflation at two percent when

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Speaker 7: shelter price inflation is still about seven and a half percent.

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Speaker 7: That's forty five percent of the core. So the you know,

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Speaker 7: the issue is he's acknowledging the progress, and he's especially

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Speaker 7: acknowledging that some of these softer measures of the tightness

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Speaker 7: of the labor market have come off, that the forward

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Speaker 7: looking signs are weaker, and that the Fed is already

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Speaker 7: at a restrictive policy stance, and it gets more restrictive

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Speaker 7: every month with quantitative tightening. So I think that again

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Speaker 7: there he's really trying to say that, yes, we've achieved

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Speaker 7: a lot, but we're not going to take it for

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Speaker 7: granted that we are absolutely done. So he's not taking

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Speaker 7: that notion out that the Fed still has the option

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Speaker 7: of tightening further.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if they're restrictive now, I would hate to

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Speaker 2: see what it really what it really looks like when

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Speaker 2: they get tight I mean, five point four percent growth

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Speaker 2: is what we're seeing in the Atlanta now GDP forecast.

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Speaker 7: Well, that's that's you know, indicative of the year. No,

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Speaker 7: it's no, it's it's it's really indicative quarter to quarter

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Speaker 7: volatility of the economy. And you know, no, we're not

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Speaker 7: in the environment where we were in twenty twenty, where

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Speaker 7: we had plus or minus thirty percent quarter to quarter GDP.

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Speaker 7: But you know, I think a lot of things have

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Speaker 7: surprised to be upside. We've raised our economic forecast as

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Speaker 7: of August by a full one and a half percent

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Speaker 7: for the year. What's the striking part of all of this?

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Speaker 2: What are you what are your forecasts for the year, Stephen,

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 7: For full year yeah, two three for full year GDP

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Speaker 7: slowing about a half percentage point at about one to

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Speaker 7: eight in the coming year, and if anything, it could

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Speaker 7: be a little bit more attenuated, the sort of the

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Speaker 7: strength and the slowdown a little bit. The really striking

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Speaker 7: thing about the economy is that in the year past

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Speaker 7: the growth rate of employment exceeded the growth rate of

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Speaker 7: GDP by the most since nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 5: Not a good year.

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Speaker 7: Wow, right, So profits have fallen, We've gone through what

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Speaker 7: I would say is in the manufacturing and trade sectors

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Speaker 7: and components of the housing sector. We've already gone through

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Speaker 7: a recessionary adjustment at least a mild wine, and yet

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Speaker 7: employment growth has been this strong. I think that changes

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Speaker 7: in the coming year, and that we're likely to get

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Speaker 7: some rebound in profits while headcount is going to be

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Speaker 7: a lot more stable. So I think that's the optimistic

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Speaker 7: call for rates. If we just continue to see regardless

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Speaker 7: of what how the economy does, regardless of tightening monetary policy,

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Speaker 7: employment still rages on, well, then you still have the

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Speaker 7: existing problems that markets have now in market and not

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Speaker 7: knowing where the top is on rates.

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Speaker 2: But do you think that turns around, Steven? I mean,

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Speaker 2: if employment growth was stronger than economic growth in the

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Speaker 2: past year. In the next year, as economic growth slows down,

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Speaker 2: does employment growth take a leg even lower than that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, do we start I.

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Speaker 7: Think we're headed to a jobs recovery.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I think we're headed to a period in which, you know,

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Speaker 7: there's no v in the economy, there's no collapse in

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Speaker 7: everything everywhere, all at once that everybody's waiting for, like

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Speaker 7: twenty twenty, where it's as clear as day it can

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Speaker 7: only get better. It's not that, but employment growth, just

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Speaker 7: the industry composition of employment growth, the recovery and services

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Speaker 7: which took a depression, strange imposed depression in industries that

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Speaker 7: normally don't even fire people. That rebound in services really

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Speaker 7: drove that outperformance of the labor market. And I think

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Speaker 7: it's going to slow. And at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 7: there are areas that are just long cycle multi family

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Speaker 7: construction for example. Now, construction is an industry that normally

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Speaker 7: has you know, double digit gains and losses around recessions.

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Speaker 7: It's only slow, and that's despite a twenty one percent

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Speaker 7: drop in residential investment. But what's happened here is the

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Speaker 7: longer cycle components of construction, multifamily housing, which takes three

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Speaker 7: years of construction time, four years of planning. Well, activity

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Speaker 7: right now is still demanding a lot of labor, and

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Speaker 7: it's at a record high share of total construction activity,

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Speaker 7: So that is going to come off. And I think

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Speaker 7: everyone assumes that there's been this really short policy leg Hey,

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Speaker 7: everybody can get used to the FED quickly. That might

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Speaker 7: be the true in financial markets, but it's not true

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Speaker 7: in the economy. So I think we're headed for a

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Speaker 7: slower labor market in the coming year, you know, despite

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Speaker 7: the fact that profits down in the last year will

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Speaker 7: probably recover a little less than consensus, but they're on

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Speaker 7: their way up, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Steven, Given that economic backdrop, what's the investment call

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Speaker 1: coming out of city these days? What are you telling

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Speaker 1: clients to do?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 7: You know, look, I think this current period of greater

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Speaker 7: concern about security is something we can't dispute everyone. We

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Speaker 7: can't tell everyone. Are we certain that there's no widespread conflict.

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Speaker 7: History shows that in more than ninety percent of cases

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Speaker 7: that is true. We're not going to change and create

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Speaker 7: a turning point for the world over regional security issues.

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Speaker 7: I think for the equities markets, everyone has said, well,

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Speaker 7: you know, if we don't know where the top is

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Speaker 7: in rates and oil, then we have issues, but broadly speaking,

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Speaker 7: we've restored value in both stocks and bonds. We've restored

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Speaker 7: again near record high real interest rates. If you look

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Speaker 7: at tips markets again, two and a half percent government

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Speaker 7: guaranteed bond yields plus inflation compensation. Think about that six

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Speaker 7: percent corporate bonds. Now here's another one. Small and MidCap

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Speaker 7: growth companies, those with good balance sheets and profits, not

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Speaker 7: the ones that have levered up for treating about thirty

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Speaker 7: percent below their long term valuation average, down by a

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Speaker 7: fifteen PE multiple. So we started to add there, not

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Speaker 7: taking a whole lot of aggregate risk, but it's time

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Speaker 7: to recognize those growth opportunities.

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Speaker 2: We don't see a lot of bargains. Dewey steven because

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Speaker 2: I hear torson Slock. I think a couple of days

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Speaker 2: ago sent out a PE for the Magnificent seven Yes,

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Speaker 2: which was like forty five, and for the S and

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Speaker 2: P four hundred and ninety three, which was still nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Now I've heard others say it's more like sixteen, but

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Speaker 2: it's it's not below terribly below the historical average. And

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Speaker 2: then in terms of credit, you don't see spreads wide

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Speaker 2: you know, they're still pretty tight.

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Speaker 7: Well, this is again the reason why we're not investing

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Speaker 7: along the lines of just adding S and P five hundred.

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Speaker 7: You know, for large cap exposure, we're doing equal late

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Speaker 7: SMP and we're overweighting again within a neutral global allocation.

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Speaker 7: For small MidCap companies, you know, we found true bargains

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Speaker 7: and small and mid cap growth companies fifteen times. The

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Speaker 7: long term average PE for the sector is twenty one times.

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Speaker 7: That's not Russell two thousand. Again, that's again companies that

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Speaker 7: have grown their earnings about twelve percent per year for

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Speaker 7: the last ten years, and largely exclude things like banks

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Speaker 7: that have levered up in the small cap area. So

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Speaker 7: it's being more specific than I think just saying the

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Speaker 7: market our return OLOOP is moderate. I think at this point,

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Speaker 7: if we're right about inflation coming down, rates peaking, and

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Speaker 7: profits starting to bottom again, it's not going to be

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Speaker 7: twelve percent EPs growth like the consensus. Thanks we're at four.

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Speaker 7: We still think again the broader markets will have a

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Speaker 7: positive return. But some of these valuation opportunities are pretty good,

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Speaker 7: and I would say especially the US bond market stands

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Speaker 7: out with some of the highest yields in the world

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Speaker 7: for high quality investment great companies. So it's not a

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Speaker 7: matter again of chasing low quality spreads. It's earning a

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Speaker 7: prospective real yield and that could be as much as

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Speaker 7: four percent for investment great corporates.

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Speaker 1: Steven, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate getting

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Speaker 1: your thoughts and insights there. Stephen Whiting, He's a chief

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Speaker 1: investment strategist at City Global Wealth.

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Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 6: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 1: Let's get that back to the leading geopolitical issue out there,

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Speaker 1: and that is, of course, what's happening in Israel.

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Speaker 4: Micheline ishe joins us.

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Speaker 1: She is a professor at the Joseph Corbell School of

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Speaker 1: International Studies at the University of Denver. She joins us

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Speaker 1: here and Micheline thanks.

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Speaker 4: So much for joining us here.

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Speaker 1: What do you believe Israel should do? In response to

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Speaker 1: what was almost two weeks ago, the terror attack. What

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Speaker 1: do you think they should do here?

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Speaker 8: Well, as any country that has been attacked in a

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Speaker 8: non lawful manner, with an intensity and a scope that

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Speaker 8: was unprecedented, it's clear that it has to defend itself.

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Speaker 8: It will defend itself, as we heard in the media,

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Speaker 8: by just sending ground troop. Now, it took some time

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Speaker 8: to do that because it wanted to sort of somehow

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Speaker 8: sheltered infrastructures of the northern No Gaza in order to

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Speaker 8: send its troop. Now you ask about what it should do.

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Speaker 8: It has the right to self defense under international law.

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Speaker 8: It has of course to be consistent with not creating

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Speaker 8: excessive death that surpassed the mitullary advantage, which will be

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Speaker 8: a difficult call. It should do and will do. Will

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Speaker 8: probably be defending itself, and here we all hope that

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Speaker 8: it would be done with international oin mind.

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Speaker 2: So do you have problems with the blockade that now

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Speaker 2: has kept humanitarian aid out of Gaza. I mean you

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Speaker 2: could understand the anger right obviously initially, but then there

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Speaker 2: are over a million people in Gaza under the age

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Speaker 2: of fifteen, so you know they weren't even born when

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Speaker 2: the Palestinians elected Hamas in two thousand and six. Is

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Speaker 2: that is that something that the Israelis need to be

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Speaker 2: better at doing, letting food and medicine and water, maybe

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Speaker 2: even fuel through or you know, do you see that

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Speaker 2: Hamas just takes what they want right away and doesn't

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Speaker 2: care about the rest of the people, and so it's

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Speaker 2: kind of fruitless.

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Speaker 8: Well, it's probably one of the consumers, really, is that

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Speaker 8: Hamas might be taking some part of the humanitarian aid

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Speaker 8: that will be delivered.

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Speaker 2: Or not just might be I mean definitely right, they

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Speaker 2: stole they stole already a lot of fuel that went

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Speaker 2: in last week.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so there will be an important need of an

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Speaker 8: important triarch. The question who is going to be doing it.

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Speaker 8: At the same time, you have, as you said, a

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Speaker 8: humanitarian crisis with a close to a million of people

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Speaker 8: now trying to evacuate to the south of Gaza, very

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Speaker 8: small strip of area with a highly densit densely populated people.

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Speaker 8: So there will be opening as a result of the

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Speaker 8: bidened visit to is world. There will be an opening

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Speaker 8: of truck delivering food and water. It's very unclear as

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Speaker 8: to what extents there will be electricity, because the electricity

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Speaker 8: can be used also for warfare purposes. But there will

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Speaker 8: be certainly a situations in where we will see in

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Speaker 8: the coming days opening in the rough crossing, at least

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Speaker 8: from what we hear from the Americans and the Israeli

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Speaker 8: as well.

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Speaker 1: Micheline, how concerned are you about this conflict which is

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Speaker 1: currently between Israel and Hamas broadening out to something that

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Speaker 1: includes more of the Arab players in the region. How

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Speaker 1: much of a risk do you think that is?

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Speaker 8: It is always a risk. We know that Iran as

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Speaker 8: Iran as sponsored Risbola and also Hamas, and we also

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Speaker 8: know that there was just yesterday today's ago, just missiles

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Speaker 8: that were intercepted by American boats launched toward Tel Aviv.

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Speaker 8: So there is a possibility always of a war to

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Speaker 8: be to spiral in the wrong direction. At the same time,

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Speaker 8: it's worth suggesting that the fact that Iran has been

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Speaker 8: very much weakend years of protest also in its own country,

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Speaker 8: Frisbola has become also a very weak party in Lebanon,

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Speaker 8: and Lebanon has been becoming a failed state. So those

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Speaker 8: two country though, they might want to unify and they

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Speaker 8: might want to show their supporter to the Palestinians also

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Speaker 8: are hesitant in full fledged involvement, so they are waiting.

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Speaker 8: I think that if they see that there is in

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Speaker 8: the north of Israel more in fights, so missile rockets

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Speaker 8: going in the directions from Israel to Risbola, they probably

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Speaker 8: will be further involved. What is reassuring in a way

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Speaker 8: is that the United States has send these two aircrafters

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Speaker 8: on to the East Mediterranean Sea, and in that sense

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Speaker 8: it provides a form of deterrents to the potential escalation

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Speaker 8: of countries in the region.

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Speaker 1: And Professor, I guess, can you help us just understand

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Speaker 1: kind of the support that Hamas enjoys in Gaza among

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian people. I guess I'm just wondering to what extends.

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Speaker 2: So hard spend a question that's really hard to get

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Speaker 2: an answer.

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Speaker 1: Did the Palestinians support Hamas? And if so, to what

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Speaker 1: extent do you think?

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Speaker 8: I think that if you were asking the same questions

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Speaker 8: in October five, fifth, or six, you probably will see

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Speaker 8: a lot of dissent among Palestinians with respect to their

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Speaker 8: support of Ramas. Remember that the last elections in the

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Speaker 8: Gaza strip was in two thousand and six, which means

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Speaker 8: it was seventeen years ago. Very difficult to assess that

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Speaker 8: level of legitimacy. Most moreover, we know that Human Rights

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Speaker 8: Watch have criticized heavily Hamas for detaining, incarcerating, torturing its

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Speaker 8: own people, and not being the most friendly when it's

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Speaker 8: come to their women's right. So a lot of these

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Speaker 8: sense among its population. But you can make the same argument,

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Speaker 8: not quite the same, but a somewhat similar argument with

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Speaker 8: respect to Israeli. They have distrusted their government. Now since

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Speaker 8: November twenty twenty two, it was an elected government, but

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Speaker 8: still very much distrusted as a result of the protest movement. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 8: during time of war, there is a unity. Three hundred

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Speaker 8: thousand peoples have been mobilized among the reservists to fight

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Speaker 8: that war unconditionally, among them many protesters. So I will

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Speaker 8: assume that the same will happen in wartime.

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Speaker 2: On the other side, how would you know a human

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Speaker 2: rights advocate prosecute a war against an enemy that doesn't

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Speaker 2: care about its own people. You know that even takes

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Speaker 2: refuge in You know Hamas military activities come out of

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Speaker 2: schools and hospitals. You know that use their own people

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Speaker 2: as a defense. How do you prosecute that kind of

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Speaker 2: war if you're concerned about civilian you know, injuries and deaths.

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Speaker 8: Well, it is from an international humanitarian law certainly are

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Speaker 8: very difficult propositions. First of all, as you know, internationally,

439
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 8: manitarian law have to be reciprocal, so it it has

440
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 8: to be consistent for Hama's side and for the Israeli side,

441
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 8: even if one side does not do with the other.

442
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 8: Still as the burden of being constrained by those international law,

443
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 8: how it prosecuted, it will be very different difficult. Israel

444
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 8: as the right to defense with respect to international law,

445
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 8: but it has also been its constrain with respect to

446
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 8: the how it targeted military versus civilians. Civilians, as you

447
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 8: said before, already part or already embedded in the military

448
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 8: wings of Hamas, which makes it very difficult to go

449
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 8: after the military wings of Hamas. But what they really

450
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 8: have done and have tried at the very least, it's

451
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 8: to first of all called for and evacuations of the

452
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 8: north side of Gaza to the south of Gaza in

453
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 8: order to make sure that the target the target, the

454
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 8: object of target was not the innocent civilians but the

455
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 8: military wing very difficult to do on the long round

456
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 8: because they will be sssive casualty in the cross fire.

457
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate

458
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: getting the benefit of all your experience. Micheline ishe professor

459
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: of International Studies and Human Rights at the University of Denver,

460
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: and Folks, I'm just looking at her bio and she's

461
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: been everywhere talking about human rights and teaching about human rights.

462
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: We appreciate getting few minutes of Professor Eeshay's time.

463
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 6: You're listening to the team. Ken's our live program Bloomberg

464
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,

465
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen

466
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 6: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

467
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: One of the big stories in markets really over the

468
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: last several weeks and months has been crude oil and

469
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: we've got another move higher today and wtat crude oil

470
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: over ninety. Fernando Valley joins us. He covers all the

471
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: global energy markets. Fernanda, What's what's happening in the oil

472
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: market these days?

473
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 5: Well, so much.

474
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 9: Oh, it's been pulling all directions, especially this past week.

475
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 9: We had very large drops and then for both crude

476
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 9: oil and refined products in the US, which definitely added

477
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 9: to the geopolitical tensions and bringing oil prices higher over

478
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 9: the past few days.

479
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: So we have enough here in the US to even

480
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: if we're cut off from the rest of the world,

481
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: to serve our needs. Right, Is that true as well?

482
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 2: As I know it's true for crude oil? Is that

483
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: true as well as refined products as well?

484
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 9: For the most part, yes, we have. Between the US

485
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 9: and Canada, we have nearly nineteen million barrels a day

486
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 9: of oil production, and then if you add Mexico and

487
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 9: some other friendly nations, we're in good steed. On refined

488
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 9: products is a little bit lower, and the biggest issue there.

489
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 9: We are net importers of gasoline, especially into the East Coast,

490
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 9: because it's usually cheaper to bring it from Europe than

491
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 9: it is to the Gulf Coast thanks to Paul's favorite

492
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 9: law of the Jones Act.

493
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: Exactly right, don't worry, I'm working on that. I'm working

494
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: on that, all right. I know it's a supplying demand

495
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: kind of story, and you're talking about commodities here. We

496
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: It appears to me that OPEC, plus their cuts in

497
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: production have in fact worked is that. Can we give

498
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: them some credit there?

499
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 9: I mean it has worked slightly, but I think ultimately

500
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 9: a lot of this has been geopolitical risk. And you

501
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 9: think when you cut as much as they have, you know,

502
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 9: over two million barrels a day, theoretically you should have

503
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 9: a larger impact. You shouldn't be struggling to get to

504
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 9: the nineties, and obviously external events conspiring to that. I

505
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 9: think it's very clear when you look at the US

506
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 9: that the demand is not The demand side of the

507
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 9: equation is not sticking to the ninety dollars plus oil

508
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 9: or even the high crack spreads as well. If you

509
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 9: look at just how much gasoline came off, the came

510
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 9: off in July and now in the past few weeks

511
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 9: is even more so, it's clear that they US consumer

512
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 9: and that can be a kind of the benchmark. The

513
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 9: bell Weather for others is struggling with elevated fuel prices.

514
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: Hey on, when you say the Jones Act, are you

515
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: talking about the Merchant Marine Act of nineteen twenty. This

516
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 2: is a law requiring that all goods transported on the

517
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 2: water between two US ports are transported on either ships

518
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 2: that have been instructed in the US. Oh, well not either.

519
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 2: Both ships that have been constructed in the US and

520
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 2: that fly the US flag and that are owned by

521
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: US citizens and that are crewed by US citizens and

522
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: permanent residents. So I guess that makes it more expensive

523
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: sometimes to ship crude from the Gulf up to the

524
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: East Coast.

525
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: So if you little on the East coast, every time

526
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: you got shale oil in your backyard and gas, you

527
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: can't get it.

528
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: Where you can't pipe, you can't get it. But you

529
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: just have to pay for US built ships crewed by

530
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: US servicemen, owned by US A pipeline.

531
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 4: They can't build a pipeline, will let you build pipe.

532
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 4: There's a pipeline running through my backyard.

533
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: You live New Jersey. There's nothing to destroy there. Right

534
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: through the rest of America. Pipe, there's important wildlife.

535
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: While Fernando Valley, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

536
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: Good stuff.

537
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, build a pipeline from

538
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: the shale of Pennsylvania into John Tucker's backyard into Jersey.

539
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: The problem solved. I don't know why we don't do that,

540
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: but that's the Jones Act.

541
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: Well, it can't go from Pennsylvania, right, We're going to

542
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: refine it.

543
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 4: I don't know, build a refinery.

544
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: I thought you had to go down to Oklahoma to

545
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: do that.

546
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 4: Well, we'll build a refinery in New Jersey. I think

547
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 4: we've got plenty of millions, so we've already got plenty

548
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 4: of them.

549
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

550
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

551
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

552
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 5: And the Bloomberg Business App.

553
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

554
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 6: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

555
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show off my telecommunications chops to you right now.

556
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: Wide area networking as one one yep, Local area networking Loe. Okay, see,

557
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of all, I kind of know.

558
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 4: I justin.

559
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: We got these little nodes all over the office, and

560
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: apparently they tie you all together and so you can

561
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: do the wireless of wireline and all that networking stuff.

562
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: But the people actually do that for a living. One

563
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: of those gentlemen's right here today with us in our

564
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: Blueberk Interactive Broker studio. That's Phil Montrium. He is executive

565
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: EP and general manager at Aruba, which is a Hewlett

566
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: Packard Enterprise company.

567
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: Phil, thanks so much for joining us here. I know

568
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 4: you're based on the.

569
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: I just thought I just kind of occurred to me, Phil,

570
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: the work you do is important to nearly every single

571
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: person on a daily, if not an hourly or minute

572
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: to minute basis, and no one understands what you do.

573
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 10: No, is that like you're exactly right? Yeah, no, we

574
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 10: reckon that. So these access points on the ceiling that

575
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 10: connect your Fi Fi devices and get you to the Internet.

576
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 10: We've shipped about twenty eight million of those since we

577
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 10: started as a company about twenty years ago. And we

578
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 10: believe it is a Ruba or yeah, no, this is

579
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 10: Ruba before Hulett Packard Enterprise acquired us. And we think

580
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 10: at any one time you would have one hundred million

581
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 10: people connected to these access points around the world and

582
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 10: they'll be in schools, hotels, offices, emergency services. I mean,

583
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 10: this stuff is real. So yeah, you've got to have

584
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 10: a really good, stable platform for customers.

585
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: So when you're at a cocktail party and someone says

586
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: what do you do, you don't start talking about you know,

587
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: wireless SD one solutions so that we can edge to

588
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: cloud you've seen you've never seen cloud? No, I mean,

589
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: how do you make it easier for like.

590
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, look, you know I talk about the fact that

591
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 10: I work for Hulett Packard Enterprise, which is a great

592
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 10: technology company, and we focus in three areas. We focus

593
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 10: on hybrid cloud, we focus on AI, and then we

594
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 10: focus on networking. And then after that, I'll talk about

595
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 10: the fact that, you know, we supply these access points

596
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 10: and then the access points link to something called a

597
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 10: campus switch and we provide those and then they link

598
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 10: to a network that you just talked about, which is

599
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 10: sd WAN. So you know, I talk about the fact

600
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 10: that we kind of follow the change and the network

601
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 10: and so that's where we expand our technology.

602
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: How has that business changed with the pandemic and more

603
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: people working from home remotely and all that kind of stuff.

604
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, look, the good thing about being a

605
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 10: network provider is anytime something changes in a business, there's

606
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 10: an impact on the network. So people go and work

607
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 10: from home, and it's like, right, we need to change

608
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 10: the network so that people can communicate remotely. People come

609
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 10: back into an office, you need to upgrade the Wi Fi.

610
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 10: People move workloads out to the cloud. Whenever there's a

611
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 10: change in business, there's a resulting impact on the network,

612
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 10: and that's good for our business because that's what drives demand.

613
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: So is the growth for your business just I would

614
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: think like in emerging markets, is that where the growth?

615
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 10: No, it's everywhere. I mean, which which your organization doesn't

616
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 10: want to stay on top of the network. I mean

617
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 10: this is technology correct, Yeah, yeah, because it goes faster.

618
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 10: You go from Wi Fi five to Wi Fi six

619
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 10: to Wi Fi seven. So these upgrades obviously make the

620
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 10: network go a lot faster. Obviously, people are more concerned

621
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 10: about security as well now, so we made some investments

622
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 10: in security. We bought a company called Access Security about

623
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 10: four or five months ago. Because this stuff is very real,

624
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 10: isn't it? For customers? You know, you want better, you

625
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 10: want faster networks, and you want to make sure they're secure.

626
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: So who is response? That's a good question. Who's responsible

627
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: for the security of a network? So is it kind

628
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 4: of like you guys? Is it me as the customer?

629
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 10: It's it's it's a team, isn't it? So you as

630
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 10: the user? You know, if I'm the network manager, right,

631
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 10: obviously I have a responsibility to make sure there's secure network.

632
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 10: But as users, you know, you need to make sure

633
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 10: that you're not downloading the wrong apps and you know,

634
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 10: get in court, phishing or whatever it might be. You know,

635
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 10: it's a collective responsibility to make sure that the you know,

636
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 10: the information and enterprise is secure.

637
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: I'm always worried about getting caught edging to cloud. Sure

638
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: what what what's the AI component of your business?

639
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 10: Okay, So we do a lot in AI. We bought

640
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 10: We've got quite a good history in this area because

641
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 10: we bought Craze supercomputers. Heard about them, yeah, years ago,

642
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 10: and so they they're i mean world experts in building

643
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 10: these kind of big models for weather systems and all

644
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 10: this sort of stuff. And obviously more recently you've seen

645
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 10: a huge demand for AI. And what we're doing there

646
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 10: is using some of that knowledge and smarts from Cray,

647
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 10: blending it with the infrastructure that we provide, and then

648
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 10: really supporting customers as they develop their large language models

649
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 10: and other developments in the AI space. So we see

650
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 10: huge demand right now as a company from AI.

651
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: How do you make how you make these things more sustainable?

652
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: Because AI in these data centers is going to use

653
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: like it's going to dwarf. Yeah, the electricity use of bitcoin,

654
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 2: which already gets slagged down by everybody coming on this program.

655
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: So how do you deal with that demand?

656
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean just generally across the board. By the way,

657
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 10: we are huge unsustainability and I think we're only I mean,

658
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 10: it's a little bit sad to say this, but we're

659
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 10: one of only two technology companies that have actually committed

660
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 10: to hitting net zero targets, right. But it's a big

661
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 10: part of what HP does as an organization, so we

662
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 10: take it very seriously. On the AI space, we do

663
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 10: like water cooling and that sort of stuff, and we

664
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 10: pick data centers that are really efficient to make sure

665
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 10: that we're sustainable. And then in the network space, we

666
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 10: do all sorts of things. I mean we'll actually take

667
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 10: back old equipment from customers and recycle it and then

668
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 10: sell it onto other markets. So actually, in the last

669
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 10: two or three years, we've taken back eight point two

670
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 10: million devices, so old pieces network equipment, and in eighty

671
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 10: two percent of cases we've been able to refurb it

672
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 10: and sell it onto another market. So sustainability is huge

673
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 10: for here at Packard Enterprise.

674
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: Who's your competitor in the networking business for your competitors, plur,

675
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: I guess.

676
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 10: I mean, look, you know there's a ranger companies. Cisco

677
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 10: is obviously a big player in the network space, and

678
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 10: then you get some other startups as well, but you know,

679
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 10: Cisco's probably the big kind of what's.

680
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 4: The revenue growth driver for you?

681
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 1: Is it just is it more customers? Is it more

682
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: revenue per customer?

683
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 10: Both?

684
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 4: Kind of yeah, it's both really.

685
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 10: I mean, obviously you saw, as I said earlier, when

686
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 10: you see big changes in the way that people work,

687
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 10: then that drives demands. So as I say, you know,

688
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 10: when the pandemic happens, people start to work from home.

689
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 10: That meant people had to spend on the networks to

690
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 10: make them secure. Now that they're trying to get people

691
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 10: back in the offices, you know, people are only going

692
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 10: to come back to the offices if you've got great

693
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 10: Wi Fi coverage in the office. Otherwise why would you

694
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 10: come back in right, So these changes they drive demand,

695
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 10: and where we benefit is that means existing customers are

696
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 10: buying more, but we're attracting a lot of new customers

697
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 10: as well, because you know, we kind of link all

698
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 10: this into technical we link all of this stuff together

699
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 10: through a platform called HPE Green Lake, and that allows

700
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 10: customers to be able to provision and manage network and

701
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 10: it all from one platform, so that brings in new

702
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 10: customers as well for us.

703
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 4: Fascinating stuff. Somebody's got to do it. I know, I can't.

704
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: Why are Aruba? We only have ten seconds? But why

705
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 2: is it called I mean, it makes me want to go.

706
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 5: To a Ruba.

707
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 10: Why would only want buy Ruber?

708
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: Why is it called Ruber?

709
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 10: Why is it called Ruber? So? I think the founders

710
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 10: they were looking for a name, and I guess one

711
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 10: of them have been on a nice holiday ago. Yeah,

712
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 10: that was the main reason.

713
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I think going down in January. Very nice, Phil Matron,

714
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate Executive VP and

715
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: GM at Aruba, hule at Packard Enterprise Company.

716
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

717
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, tune

718
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 6: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

719
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 5: The Bloomberg Business App.

720
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

721
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 6: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven.

722
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: It is that time of the week when we asked

723
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: the question, what is Matt Miller driving? Yeah, and I

724
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: think it really different ways on this, but I'll let

725
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: you take well.

726
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: I love that Denise ended her report with shares of

727
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: Harley Davidson because I was just looking at the comp

728
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: function on Harley Davidson. You know, that's the function that

729
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 2: looks at a stock with total return over a certain

730
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: period of time at defaults to five years. And although

731
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: it's not apples to apples, Polaris stock has outperformed Harley

732
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 2: Davidson stock over the past five years with a total

733
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 2: return included. You see Polari's stock is up eighteen percent

734
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: and Harley is down fifteen percent. Now I say Polaris

735
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 2: because they make Indian motorcycles, Okay, and that's what I'm riding. Oh,

736
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 2: that's what I'm driving this this week. I'm driving an

737
00:38:54,520 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: Indian Chief Bobber dark Horse. Nice, but suffice it to

738
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: say it's kind of the mid range in terms of

739
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: weightiness of bikes for Indian. They make well, they make

740
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: a flat tracker that's extremely extremely popular, and then they

741
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: make a Scout which is kind of the entry level.

742
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: It's a very like cool looking dark old bobber style.

743
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: The Chief is a little bit heavier and maybe for

744
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: a little bit longer range rides. And then they make

745
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: the big bikes that are a little too big for me.

746
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: But I want to bring in Mike Doherty. He's the

747
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: president of Indian for Polaris. He joins us right now,

748
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, out of Medina, Minnesota, is that right?

749
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 5: Yeah? You got it right? Nice exactly.

750
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: So I talked to I was talking to Mike earlier

751
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: and told him a little story about me test driving

752
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 2: this bike, and I'll share it with you. It's kind

753
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 2: of it's kind of corny. But when I moved into Scarsdale,

754
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: I had all these guys to deal with, right my

755
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: mortgage broker and the contractor and my insurance guy. Insurance

756
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 2: guy is totally cool. He lives in the neighborhood. He's

757
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: got kids that go to the schools. And I was like, dude,

758
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: let's go get beers. And he was never like ready

759
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: to brow out, you know. He was like, yeah, no,

760
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: I'm too busy.

761
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 6: Okay.

762
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: He never really talked to me that much, even though

763
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm insuring all my vehicles with him, you know. But

764
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: the other day he comes by to pick up some

765
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 2: plates and he says, man, that is a cool Indian.

766
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: You've got parked in your driveway. Now all of a sudden,

767
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: he's calling me.

768
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 4: He wants to come over, he.

769
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: Wants to hang out, you know, bros. He wants to

770
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: be a bro. And this is like, to me, this

771
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: is one of the coolest aspects of motorcycling. Like it

772
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: it's beyond just obviously a method of transportation that gets

773
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: you from a to B or a lifestyle. It's like

774
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: really creates a community. And I love the journey that Indian,

775
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: the Indian brand has gone since Polaris took it over.

776
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: You've also, Mike really been selling a lot more of these, right,

777
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of stories about the jump in

778
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 2: sales for Indian. You're taking market share away from Harley

779
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: Davidson and you're becoming like one of the big American players.

780
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: You are arguably one of the two. Right tell us about.

781
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 11: Indideah, Absolutely, yeah, and welcome to the cool kids club.

782
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 9: I'm glad that you like the bike.

783
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 11: And you've had some positive experiences with it. It's a

784
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 11: Indians on a roll right now, for sure. You know,

785
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 11: we launched the bike once we purchased the brand in

786
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 11: twenty eleven. We came out with our first versions of

787
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 11: the Indian in twenty thirteen, so really just the last decade,

788
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 11: but we've been gaining share really in every market we

789
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 11: compete in in most every segment for the ten years since.

790
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 11: And yeah, we continue to take share from the big player.

791
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 11: But people are thrilled with their bikes, and the Chief

792
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 11: is kind of the bike that kind of comes right

793
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 11: in the middle. It kind of plugged a gap we

794
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 11: had in our product lineup, so now we really have

795
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 11: a range of bikes for every type of rider right now.

796
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: So to me, the chief Is is my favorite. It's

797
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: the sweet spot of the line because I want a cruiser.

798
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: I don't need a big bagger, you know, with a

799
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 2: full faring although some people you know want those for

800
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: obvious reasons. But the thing that I think sets Indian

801
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: apart is the success that you've had with the flat tracker,

802
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: the FTR it's a twelve hundred, and the success that

803
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 2: you've had in flat track racing, which is kind of

804
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: where Indian made its name. So tell us about that

805
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: bike and that endeavor.

806
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, racing goes way back, you know, to the origins

807
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 11: of the brand, and when we came back with the brand,

808
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 11: we knew that we had to compete and really live

809
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 11: up to the performance heritage of the of the brand,

810
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 11: and we have. We've been kind of dominant on the racetrack,

811
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 11: in particular the flat track racetrack. We just won our

812
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 11: fifth series and we've got a champion and Jared Meese

813
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 11: that I think he's tied for now for the all

814
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 11: time championship. So yeah, we've been winning, dominating on the racetrack,

815
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 11: and then we've also been super competitive in the King

816
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 11: of the Baggers and the other racing circuits that we do.

817
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 11: But the flat tracks a great bike. It has global

818
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 11: appeal and yeah, a lot of people.

819
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 9: Are loving it right now.

820
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: Hey, Mike Hoo's the prototypical Indian motorcycle buyer.

821
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 5: Good question.

822
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 11: You know, most of the people that buy an Indian

823
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 11: it's not their first motorcycle. They've they've been around motorcycling

824
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 11: for a while, their experience, they know what they want,

825
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 11: maybe want a more premium experience, either ownership or riding experience,

826
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 11: and so they jump onto the Indians. We sell more

827
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 11: of Scout than anything else, so that's our entry into

828
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 11: the brand and then they work their way up over

829
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 11: their riding lifestyle to the chief and ultimately to a

830
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 11: roadmaster or one of our touring or bagger bikes. But

831
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 11: experience knowledge people that are probably looking for a little

832
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 11: bit more performance. Our bikes provide more performance.

833
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: What's the key to you think the growth that you've experienced,

834
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: the market chair you've been able to take. Is it

835
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: the racing is it? You know, just the design and

836
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 2: production of the bikes? Is it the dealership network. I've

837
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 2: got a very cool dealer by me, Shane at White

838
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: Plains Indian. He's like obsessed with the brand. What is

839
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: it you think that's helping you helping you win?

840
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 11: You know, all those things combined. Really it's important, right,

841
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 11: You've got to honor the brand.

842
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 5: In the right way.

843
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 11: You need to give the consumers a premium ownership and

844
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 11: buying experience. Our dealers are first class. I'm glad that

845
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 11: you've had a good experience with them. That's normal for us,

846
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 11: and we build beautiful motorcycles. You know, the first thing

847
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 11: that attracts people to Indian is the style of the bikes.

848
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 11: That they look cool, they are cool, and then once

849
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 11: they ride them, they appreciate the performance that they have

850
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 11: and and once they own them, we have world class

851
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 11: satisfaction scores. So you know, once you get on one,

852
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 11: you kind of stay on one. You convince your buddy

853
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 11: to kind of, you know, go check them out. And

854
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 11: that's how we've been winning in the marketplaces, word of mouth,

855
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 11: and you know, continue to have world classic satisfaction.

856
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: What's the experience like coming out of the pandemic, because

857
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: you know, I think for a lot of people when

858
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: we went into lockdown, a lot of people were like, man,

859
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 2: I got to get on a motorcycle and get out

860
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: there because you're definitely social distancing, right, you know Paul,

861
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, Paul was on one of those bicycles what

862
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: do you call those bikes? No, No, the oh the

863
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: with Jen Sherman and the oh yeah, the peloton, the peloton, right,

864
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: but he was so he was doing a lot during

865
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: the pandemic and then he's not doing it so much after.

866
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: Do you have the same experience with the motorcycle sales? Did

867
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: they soar when everyone had a social distance and had

868
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: they softened a little bit since.

869
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly, we couldn't keep enough bikes in stock. You know,

870
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 11: it was hard enough trying to keep the factories running,

871
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 11: but the demand was through the roof and so a

872
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 11: lot of people had to place orders for them and

873
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 11: wait for them to come. That subsided a little bit.

874
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 11: We're kind of back to a normal, sort of pre

875
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 11: pandemic level. The rising interest rates, you know, makes it

876
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 11: a little bit challenging for some customers to finance their bikes.

877
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 11: But we're still seeing healthy demand and we're still gaining

878
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 11: market share, so we're in a good spot. But it

879
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 11: was a crazy couple of years.

880
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 6: For sure.

881
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 4: Do motorcycles are motorcycles? Are they going electric?

882
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 11: Some of them are not. The not the category that

883
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 11: we're in. You know that people like to go a

884
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 11: longer distance. There are some in the smaller urban setting

885
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 11: that are going electric. The challenge right now most brands

886
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 11: have an electric offering or will be or have announced them.

887
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 11: But the finding the perfect balance of where the technology

888
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 11: of the battery power and the cost of that marries

889
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 11: up into a motorcycle that's affordable and kind of can

890
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 11: thrill a customer that that perfect balance isn't there yet.

891
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, electric power and like self driving capabilities are for caterers. Yes,

892
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: you're a cajor I'm a I don't need that. Yeah,

893
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 2: I had the freedom and especially at the Big V twin,

894
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: you know, the American experience. It's sure, it's so cool

895
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: with the thunderstroke engine. The development of that has been

896
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: has been awesome for Indians. So I appreciate you guys

897
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 2: giving me a chance to ride this bike. Absolutely love it. Mike,

898
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining us as well on the show.

899
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 2: Mike Doherty there is the president of Indian Motorcycles for

900
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: Polaris Cagre.

901
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 4: I've never heard that term.

902
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: It's a derogatory term for automobile people from motorcycles.

903
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody sits in the car, you know, texting during

904
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: his commute, which is what pretty much everybody does.

905
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, we do.

906
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

907
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts or whatever

908
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 2: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

909
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 2: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm fall Sweeney.

910
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 4: I'm on Twitter at Ptsweeney.

911
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

912
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio