Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molli John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump says, I don't think
Speaker 1: there's anything that's going to get me into heaven. We
Speaker 1: have such a great show for you today. The Society
Speaker 1: for the Rule of Law's own George Conway stops by
Speaker 1: to talk about Trump's increasingly erratic and disturbing behavior. Then
Speaker 1: we'll talk to indivisibles Leah Greenberg and Ezra Levin about
Speaker 1: meeting this moment with this week's peaceful No King's Rally.
Speaker 1: But first, the story is the media is missing so.
Speaker 2: Mally JP Morgan, one of the biggest financial institutes in
Speaker 2: our country. They said that America is going broke slowly
Speaker 2: as the national depth balloons in tariff revenue looks well questionable.
Speaker 1: You are really into this story about the dead. I
Speaker 1: love you.
Speaker 2: It's always telling when the people who want to keep
Speaker 2: our economy optimistic have to go.
Speaker 1: I mean, the debt is a huge problem and Republicans
Speaker 1: used to care about it, but they don't anymore. And
Speaker 1: so since they don't care about it, I can't care
Speaker 1: about it. No, this is stupid we grew the debt
Speaker 1: by the way we grew the debt with the BBB
Speaker 1: three point four trillion dollars. Why so that Trump could
Speaker 1: give Ice billions and billions of dollars. Yes, his paramidlitary
Speaker 1: force that wears facial coverings. That group needs more money
Speaker 1: so that they can detain people who look a certain way.
Speaker 1: We call it a Kavanaugh stopped sensioned by Justice Brett Kavanaugh,
Speaker 1: who said, in fact that he's fine with racial profiling.
Speaker 1: So billions of dollars to Trump's paramilitary force so that
Speaker 1: they can stop people who look hispanic. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a great use of our tax dollars personally, but
Speaker 1: that's just me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't say I find this good, but I
Speaker 2: think it's always a grim economic forecast, while or Trump's
Speaker 2: whole financial cabinet trying to pretend that we're not going
Speaker 2: down to a bad place in our economy.
Speaker 1: All billionaires, a cabinet filled with billionaires, all of whom
Speaker 1: want to lessen their tax burden so that they can
Speaker 1: just get whatever they want. And these are people who
Speaker 1: know better but don't pare because they want to pay
Speaker 1: us taxes.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, now, we're going to get to the
Speaker 2: really fun stuff. So Politico, known as.
Speaker 1: A inside the Beltway both siding their way to autocracy,
Speaker 1: couldn't have put it better. I love them putting the
Speaker 1: fun and fascism one one two siding article.
Speaker 2: At the time, Well they've put up a pretty ugly
Speaker 2: one on one side. I love Hitler. Leaked messages exposed
Speaker 2: young Republicans racist Chad. I'm going to be honest with you.
Speaker 2: They led with the I love Hitler. There's like ten
Speaker 2: flavors of awful, awful messages in these things, because they
Speaker 2: got thousands of private messages that showed many of the
Speaker 2: young GOP leaders, you know, all young Republican groups, and
Speaker 2: they are talking about murdering their enemies and the Democratic Party,
Speaker 2: that the gas chambers aren't good enough. Things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they refer to black people as monkeys and
Speaker 1: quote of the watermelon people mused about putting their political
Speaker 1: opponents in gas chambers. They talked about raping their enemies
Speaker 1: and driving them to suicide. And a lot of Republicans
Speaker 1: who they believe supported slavery Kansas young Republican vice chair
Speaker 1: used the N word. That is probably all you need
Speaker 1: to know about this moment in history. These people are
Speaker 1: not pretending to be white supremacists. It's not a troll.
Speaker 1: It's who they are.
Speaker 2: It's not a troll, it's a brand.
Speaker 1: By the way, everyone that votes know is going to
Speaker 1: the gas chamber. They're going to say they were kidding. Also,
Speaker 1: can I just tell you, like, these are the people
Speaker 1: who are running the Republican Party. These are people the
Speaker 1: general counsel to the New York State Republicans. I'm ready
Speaker 1: to watch people burn now new York's National Committee member.
Speaker 1: These are telegram chats leaders of the Republican Party in
Speaker 1: New York, Kansas, Arizona, Vermont. These new generation of GOP
Speaker 1: activists talk like they are strom Thurman on crack cocaine
Speaker 1: with a little more racism, with.
Speaker 2: A little bit more four Chan.
Speaker 1: I'd say strom Thurman meets four Chan meets crack cocaine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know a lot of times like
Speaker 2: you and I'll be talking to people who are a
Speaker 2: little less online aka everyone on this world, and they
Speaker 2: wonder why, like a Senator Mike Lee, a Mormon in Utah,
Speaker 2: is tweeting such psychotic things, And the answer is, these
Speaker 2: are their staffers and their staffers are writing this shit
Speaker 2: and may they may approve it, they may say no,
Speaker 2: don't take it down. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: the quackery does trickle upwards, unlike their views on the economy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this stuff is so incredibly I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: shocking because we know this is what they believe, but
Speaker 1: they do in fact that One good thing is they
Speaker 1: are not completely aligned with Trump, though they are somewhat
Speaker 1: aligned with Hitler.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, the bad news is they're not
Speaker 2: aligned with Trump because they don't think he's going hard enough.
Speaker 1: Right, But Trump's too busy burning the Epstein file. Says
Speaker 1: Alex Dreyer, the chair of the Kansas Young Republicans. This
Speaker 1: is so bad. This is so, so, so bad, and
Speaker 1: it's bad for a number of reasons. One is because
Speaker 1: these people knew this was a semi public chat and
Speaker 1: still talk like this to these people believe this, right,
Speaker 1: that's pretty fucking bad. And three, you know, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: and two point zero has created a pro mission structure
Speaker 1: for this. So in every which way, this is real
Speaker 1: fucking that.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about my hero. We have a few
Speaker 2: governors who are doing a great job pushing it back
Speaker 2: against the Trump administration. One is my boy, Governor J. B. Pritzker,
Speaker 2: and he's looking to prosecute ICE agents in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's the thing. You can be a craven coward
Speaker 1: and still get prosecuted. I'm looking at all of these
Speaker 1: Republicans who have just bent the knee and still will
Speaker 1: ultimately end up on the wrong side of Trump. Or
Speaker 1: you can be brave, and when you're brave, you know
Speaker 1: you win. You ultimately win. So Pritzker is pushing back
Speaker 1: and the only way to push back against Trump is
Speaker 1: to do stuff like this price secuting ICE agents in
Speaker 1: Chicago talking to state prosecutors. By the way, Pritzker told
Speaker 1: Fox thirty two Chicago, the tables will turn one day.
Speaker 1: These people should recognize that they're not going to get
Speaker 1: prosecuted today though they probably should be. They will eventually.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, Like we talked, We talked about
Speaker 1: this so much in this podcast, and there's a reason
Speaker 1: for that. Because the America we're living in right now,
Speaker 1: this is not going to be the America of a
Speaker 1: year from now. It's not even the it was not
Speaker 1: the America six months ago. Like this is a very
Speaker 1: very dark moment in American life. But it's also not
Speaker 1: the norm. And eventually we're going to get back to
Speaker 1: what is where we have laws, and it's not gonna
Speaker 1: be good for them. It's going to be good for
Speaker 1: the rest of us because it will mean we'll live
Speaker 1: in a nation of laws again. But for now, it's
Speaker 1: important to behave that we like we still live in
Speaker 1: a nation of laws, even if it feels like some
Speaker 1: Republicans don't have to follow those laws because the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court has told them they don't. I think it's wrong
Speaker 1: to assume Pritzker is doing this because of his ambitions.
Speaker 1: I think it's right to assume that Pritzker is doing
Speaker 1: this because he understands what the right thing is and
Speaker 1: knows that this is it.
Speaker 2: When Pritzker said to videotape people, this is the endgame,
Speaker 2: is that there will be a day where we're able
Speaker 2: to prosecute those And what it also does is it
Speaker 2: makes these ice officials think twice about their abuses. They're
Speaker 2: joining guns at citizens, they're beating.
Speaker 1: Up journalists, shooting a priest, an episcopal priest with a
Speaker 1: pepper ball, yes, yes, at his head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff. So if this gives them pause about
Speaker 2: their lawlessness. It helps protect his people, and I do
Speaker 2: believe Pritzker is a true believer and that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah me too, man.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, now we get to the Washington Post, which
Speaker 2: has decided to cover itself in the opposite of Corey
Speaker 2: Mark Thiessen a pursues Beth the Post for Kwai while
Speaker 2: says we're now a conservative opinion page.
Speaker 1: This is the opposite of brave, a very very very
Speaker 1: very very craven Jeff Bezos, worried about shareholder value, does
Speaker 1: not give a thought about American democracy, owns the Washington Post.
Speaker 1: In season one, he used to care about American democracy.
Speaker 1: Season two, not so much. That guy. He has decided
Speaker 1: that he doesn't want an opinion paid to the Washing
Speaker 1: But by the way, he could sell the Washington Post
Speaker 1: anytime you want and we'd all be happy. This was
Speaker 1: what Jeff Bezos said. Now they only write about free markets.
Speaker 1: They love a free market, which is kind of hilarious
Speaker 1: because Donald Trump does not like a free market. He
Speaker 1: is not a free trader. He is a terrifying lunatic.
Speaker 1: So they like free markets and personal liberties, which I
Speaker 1: guess means again personal Lifgines runs you right into a
Speaker 1: nice agent. But okay, these are the things that Jeff
Speaker 1: Bezos has decided. So basically, the Washington Post opinion page
Speaker 1: is now the Wall Street Journal opinion page, but slightly
Speaker 1: worse and you know, wrong side of history. Jeff Bezos welcome.
Speaker 2: Some of the five major broadcast networks say they're not
Speaker 2: going to sign Pete Heiggs's new Pentagon press policy where
Speaker 2: you have to be nice to him and not post leeks.
Speaker 2: What do you see in here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's very You gotta be nice to Pete and
Speaker 1: you can't be fat. You gotta be nice, you can't
Speaker 1: be fat. This is a song that you've gone too far.
Speaker 1: And look, had everybody done this when Trump had made
Speaker 1: the ap call it the Gulf of America, had all
Speaker 1: of the media outlets been like, we're out, think of
Speaker 1: how differently this all would have gone. But this is
Speaker 1: a great example of how solidarity works. Everyone signed this,
Speaker 1: with the exception of one news outlet. Can you guess
Speaker 1: what news outlet it is?
Speaker 2: Jesse. It begins with an F and ends with anaks.
Speaker 1: Really nope, yeah, one American.
Speaker 2: News Oh yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. When Fox is too intellectual, come on down
Speaker 1: to oh A and n President confirmed they did, in
Speaker 1: fact do it. They have signed the document because honestly,
Speaker 1: when you work for Trump, you sign the doc. Solidarity works.
Speaker 1: George Conway is the president of the Society for the
Speaker 1: Law and the host of George Conway explains it all
Speaker 1: too Sarah Longwell, George Conway, Hi, welcome to Fast Politics.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me once again for the ten
Speaker 3: thousandth time.
Speaker 1: So JP Morgan warns that America is going broke. Who
Speaker 1: could have seen this coming?
Speaker 3: Did you see?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I don't know who could have seen it coming. Who
Speaker 3: could have seen that electing a man who's bankrupted so
Speaker 3: many companies would bankrupt the United States? Who could have
Speaker 3: foreseen that?
Speaker 1: Do you? Is it weird to watch someone just dismantle
Speaker 1: the country in the name of conservatism when not actually
Speaker 1: being a conservative.
Speaker 3: Well, I think we're all kind of used to it now.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not conservatism. It's nihilistic destruction for reasons
Speaker 3: that really have nothing to do with policy. And that's
Speaker 3: where we are. I mean, this is this is who
Speaker 3: he is, and this is these are the people he's
Speaker 3: surrounded himself with.
Speaker 1: This is a phenomenon. I know, you've studied and you're
Speaker 1: sort of a master of explaining people like Scott Passant,
Speaker 1: who before you went into the admin people were like, Oh,
Speaker 1: that guy's normal, he'll be normal. Why have people like
Speaker 1: him and Marco Rubio?
Speaker 3: Look, I mean, they're the most they're they're they're the
Speaker 3: most normal in the bunch, but they're completely outnumbered. I mean,
Speaker 3: at least during the first Trump administration, you had more
Speaker 3: normalcy there. Even though those people ended up in a
Speaker 3: lot of ways, a lot of them compromised themselves, but
Speaker 3: they were at least kind of understood what they were
Speaker 3: dealing with, and they were willing to check his worst impulses.
Speaker 3: And they actually, for example, Chief of Staff General John
Speaker 3: Kelly understood he was dealing with a mentally unsound person.
Speaker 3: In fact, brought in a book written by psychiatrists and
Speaker 3: psychologists that talked about Trump's various mental maladies and incapacities.
Speaker 3: So they understood they had to check him and restrict
Speaker 3: him in some way. The fellow from Gary Cohen from
Speaker 3: goldn Sachs used to take things off his desk. They
Speaker 3: used to tell him he couldn't do things that tell
Speaker 3: him it wouldn't be a good idea to do it.
Speaker 3: They told him that things were illegal. The Justice Department,
Speaker 3: people who refused to go in with him on overturning
Speaker 3: the constitution told him they would resign on mass On
Speaker 3: Moss so many examples of people basically telling him no.
Speaker 3: Secretary Esper and General Maddis telling him no, no, we
Speaker 3: can't call out the National Guard for the George Floyd protests.
Speaker 3: Those people are all gone. You do have some people
Speaker 3: who are relatively normal, as you point out Marco Rubio
Speaker 3: and Scott Bessen. But if you go all in in
Speaker 3: this administration, you are compromised. You will compromise yourself. You
Speaker 3: are out lumbered by the people who are mentally unsent.
Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't you know, one of the things
Speaker 3: in the first Trump administration, you did not have the
Speaker 3: people who were deeply unsound, mentally and deeply disturbed who
Speaker 3: were running things. But now you have Steven Miller has
Speaker 3: more power than ever. You have RFK who is completely bombers.
Speaker 3: You have all of these people who are just unwell
Speaker 3: and they don't care about anything about the country, but
Speaker 3: they care about their own status, and they care about
Speaker 3: pleasing the boss, and so anything goes so that's the
Speaker 3: big difference.
Speaker 1: One of the new phenomenons that I think is new
Speaker 1: from Trump one point zero is this where Donald Trump
Speaker 1: tries to out crazy a member of his administration. So
Speaker 1: when he was with RFK Junior, he said, RFK was
Speaker 1: like maybe Tiland and awe and then Trump went like
Speaker 1: whole hog on vaccines. And you saw that with Pete
Speaker 1: Head says too. Pete Hegg says called everyone in to
Speaker 1: have a meeting, and the meeting was like, don't be fat.
Speaker 1: And then Trump was like, and I will speak next,
Speaker 1: and he was like, there are the enemy within, so
Speaker 1: explain that, because that's new.
Speaker 3: They're all unwell. I don't know any other way to
Speaker 3: do to explain it. And you have a leader who
Speaker 3: is a narcissistic sociopath, as I've said so often, doesn't
Speaker 3: care about anyone other than himself, lacks any moral capacity
Speaker 3: for judgment, lacks any remorse, lacks any recognition or understanding
Speaker 3: of truth. Truth is whatever comes to his mind that
Speaker 3: he feels he wants to impart, and it's usually something
Speaker 3: that involves his own glorification. And he now has his way,
Speaker 3: he has control. There are people no one is willing
Speaker 3: to tell him no, and if they do, they are gone,
Speaker 3: including US attorneys who say, well, we can't bring these charges.
Speaker 3: So basically we have a sociopath an unstable mentally unstable
Speaker 3: government because the people at its head, and especially the
Speaker 3: one who had been checked in the first term to
Speaker 3: some extent, even though it didn't seem that way at
Speaker 3: the time, is now unchecked.
Speaker 1: And then you have these women, which is a little
Speaker 1: bit new, like Lindsay Hall again, these women who are
Speaker 1: sort of his hench women who come in I guess
Speaker 1: were They were.
Speaker 3: Not necessarily new in this sense. There have always been
Speaker 3: women around him. I think I don't know where I
Speaker 3: got this information. Who will do his bidding. I don't
Speaker 3: think there's anything new about it. I honestly don't, And
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, I mean, we saw Sarasuck,
Speaker 3: Huckabee Sanders, we saw my ex wife. You know. They
Speaker 3: threw their lot in with Trump, and in a weird way,
Speaker 3: they empathized with Trump. Because what happens is that Trump
Speaker 3: brings you into his fold, you end up defending him,
Speaker 3: treat him like kind of a wayward child, but it's
Speaker 3: their child, So attacks on him they view as attacks
Speaker 3: on themselves and then they get attacks, attacks that are
Speaker 3: made on them, bonds them to Trump, and it's a
Speaker 3: it's a very it's a very bizarre phenomenon, and I
Speaker 3: don't but again again, I don't think that's unique. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think I think it happens with the men too.
Speaker 3: I think there's a Stockholm syndrome aspect to me. But
Speaker 3: I also think again, to go back to the original
Speaker 3: point I'm making, is that the people who surround him
Speaker 3: now are the worst of the worst, and there aren't
Speaker 3: enough people. Even the bad people in the prior administration.
Speaker 3: Those people understood when things had gone too far my life.
Speaker 3: They understood, you know, they understood when things went too far,
Speaker 3: and they're willing to, you know, at least try to
Speaker 3: organize themselves and place themselves in a way that could
Speaker 3: slow things down, even if they weren't you know, thoroughly principled,
Speaker 3: and they didn't you know, resign out of protest or
Speaker 3: do anything like that.
Speaker 1: And there is none of that now. In fact, it
Speaker 1: is this sort of warp speed kind of thing, which
Speaker 1: I wonder, like, you know, there was this piece in
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal this week about how Trump was
Speaker 1: so embolden that the middle East thing had made him
Speaker 1: just as involved in as we've ever seen him. That
Speaker 1: tends to lead to him overplaying.
Speaker 3: His hand, correct, I mean, And that's how ultimately narcissistic
Speaker 3: sociopaths who attained some position of power, they often they
Speaker 3: run out their strength because they don't know limits and
Speaker 3: they don't care about limits. And they also, you know,
Speaker 3: they're obsessed with revenge, and they're obsessed with their own
Speaker 3: glorification and their power, and then they begin to think
Speaker 3: that they are invincible. And you know, I mean it
Speaker 3: ends in the bunker, so to speak. I mean, if
Speaker 3: you ever watched the movie Downfall, which I've always urged
Speaker 3: people to watch the German Langue, which film about the
Speaker 3: last ten days of the in the Fear Bunker. You know,
Speaker 3: it was a completely unreal place, and you have this
Speaker 3: man who was leading everybody into destruction and it was
Speaker 3: a result of his They called it at the time megalomania.
Speaker 3: And that's what we're seeing today with Trump.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: The question is when people like that overstep and they
Speaker 3: finally go too far and they overreach the way Hitler
Speaker 3: did with Operation Barbarossa, And the question is how big
Speaker 3: is the blast radius? When they blow themselves up. And
Speaker 3: the sooner they blow themselves up actually the better, because
Speaker 3: the longer it goes, the more destruction they create. And
Speaker 3: that's always been up. Mean, you've heard me use the
Speaker 3: term blast radius with Trump year for years, I think.
Speaker 3: And the question is when he ultimately will blow himself up,
Speaker 3: The question is what does he take with him.
Speaker 1: You know, he ran as a populist. We're seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of people talking about how they're just disappointed with
Speaker 1: a lot of what he's done. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's the same as us time or more or less.
Speaker 1: But talk us through what you think. Do you think
Speaker 1: he comprehends that. Do you think he doesn't care his
Speaker 1: polling is real bad?
Speaker 3: First of all, I don't think they give him those
Speaker 3: poll numbers anymore. Who wants who is going to volunteer
Speaker 3: to bring that information? And so you don't think he
Speaker 3: sees them? Oh he may, but he doesn't believe them.
Speaker 3: He doesn't know, He doesn't, right. He believes what he
Speaker 3: wants to believe, all right, And he constructs his own reality.
Speaker 3: And if you try to defy that reality, then you
Speaker 3: fall out of favor, or he thinks you're conspiring against him.
Speaker 3: Because he is, you know, as part of being a
Speaker 3: malignant narcissist. He's not narcissistic, sociopathic or psychopathic. He's also paranoid.
Speaker 3: So all of these things hey play a role in.
Speaker 3: He doesn't recognize his limits and now he's sort of
Speaker 3: obsessed with his own mortality. So he's going to go
Speaker 3: for broken a lot of ways. So it could get
Speaker 3: a lot worse.
Speaker 1: And that's like the legacy stuff, the Noble Peace prize stuff.
Speaker 1: Is that what you're thinking about it?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think that that's you know, it's bizarre, but
Speaker 3: that's how he thinks. But it's only you know, he
Speaker 3: doesn't care about peace. He only cares about the prize.
Speaker 1: So right, But now do you think not winning that
Speaker 1: prize or you think he just thinks he'll get it
Speaker 1: next time, or.
Speaker 3: Well, he thinks he's wrongfully deprived the prize, and I
Speaker 3: think he will seek vengeance upon people he thinks stood
Speaker 3: in the way of him getting the prize. I mean,
Speaker 3: who knows. I mean, he's just a very unwell man.
Speaker 1: One of the things I've been really struck by with
Speaker 1: you is you have been brave. You know, in Trump
Speaker 1: one point out it was easy to be brave. Everybody
Speaker 1: was brave now now, So really tell me why I think.
Speaker 3: He's here to be brave now, because we can now
Speaker 3: spunger more more than ever before.
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of people really just be craven opportunists. Yes,
Speaker 1: why are you brave?
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm brave. I don't view myself as brave.
Speaker 3: I view myself as a realistic someone who basically tries
Speaker 3: to figure things out and figure out what the right
Speaker 3: answer is from what I have in front of me.
Speaker 3: And I don't know how you can rationally escape the
Speaker 3: conclusion that the country is in deep trouble because it
Speaker 3: is operated by people who fundamentally don't believe in the
Speaker 3: rule of law, don't believe in the public good, who
Speaker 3: seek personal and financial gratification at the expense of others others' rights,
Speaker 3: regardless of what they should be entitled to, and they
Speaker 3: only care about themselves and that's who they are.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that there are so many people
Speaker 1: like Tim Apple who are I mean, you think it's
Speaker 1: just they feel the well, yeah.
Speaker 3: I think Tim Apple, Tim Apple, Tim Cook. So look,
Speaker 3: I think basically people are so accustomed to playing their
Speaker 3: own role and being in their own lean that they
Speaker 3: don't view themselves as part of a polity, and they
Speaker 3: put their roles as director of a company, as CEO
Speaker 3: of a company, as presidents of the university or head
Speaker 3: a chairman of a law firm ahead of their roles
Speaker 3: as citizens. And if you are you know, engaging in
Speaker 3: economic economic activity, and you have a corrupt government and
Speaker 3: you are seeking to maximize profits, and maximizing profit requires
Speaker 3: you to give a silly award to a silly man
Speaker 3: like Tim Cook did, or pay a bribe like the
Speaker 3: government of cut Our, or do any of those things,
Speaker 3: and you are trying to basically maximize wealth, maximize personal interest.
Speaker 3: It is perfectly rational to put your interests, your personal interests,
Speaker 3: or your corporate interests, of your salary, you know, above
Speaker 3: your obligations as a citizen and a human being. It's
Speaker 3: not right, it's not morally right. It doesn't show character.
Speaker 3: But we have, you know, that is one of the problems,
Speaker 3: That is one of the reasons why we have Donald
Speaker 3: Trump is people do not think of themselves as part
Speaker 3: you know, they don't think of themselves principally as moral actors.
Speaker 3: They don't consider their actions to be morally consequential because
Speaker 3: they convince themselves they can't do anything about it. They
Speaker 3: can't stand in the way of this one person can't
Speaker 3: stand in the way of the government. So let's you know,
Speaker 3: let's just let's just cave and and what happens is
Speaker 3: it's again, it's like a you know, a gain. Theorist
Speaker 3: would say, it's like the tragedy of the commons or
Speaker 3: the prisoner's dilemma. It's like if everybody behaves that way,
Speaker 3: then we all lose, you know, it's a it's.
Speaker 1: So why do you behave that? Why?
Speaker 3: I mean I because I because I I can't. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't.
Speaker 3: And I also have an advantage over a lot of people, right,
Speaker 3: I mean I do. I have to concede I have
Speaker 3: an advantage over other people. I work thirty years in
Speaker 3: a law fer. I saved up a lot of money.
Speaker 3: I don't need to work anymore. And one of the
Speaker 3: things that is great about where I am today is
Speaker 3: I could say whatever the fuck I want, and I
Speaker 3: enjoy doing that. I get a pleasure doing that. I
Speaker 3: don't like I wish I didn't have to do that.
Speaker 3: I'd rather be, you know, I mean, it's side. I
Speaker 3: could rather be spring skiing in the in the Andes.
Speaker 3: I guess I don't know if they still have spring skiing,
Speaker 3: but that's what I'd rather be doing.
Speaker 1: I don't want to compliment you, because I know how
Speaker 1: I know how much you hate that.
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think. I mean, someone makes
Speaker 3: I should get credit for doing what should be done,
Speaker 3: all right, And that's not meant to criticize people. It's
Speaker 3: not meant to criticize people who are just like you know,
Speaker 3: the FBI agent who's trying to serve the public and
Speaker 3: get his pension, and and and so on. I can't
Speaker 3: blame people for making the best of their situations as
Speaker 3: they are, and they have families to feel. I don't,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't fault that, But I do think
Speaker 3: that a lot of people who are in a position
Speaker 3: to do something, just take a stand, are putting their
Speaker 3: desire to get a third home somewhere above above the
Speaker 3: interests of the public. And I think that's very very
Speaker 3: short again, just against the interest the polity, against the
Speaker 3: interests of the public, against their own freedom and their
Speaker 3: own rights, and surrendering that to essentially, you know, authoritarian lunatics,
Speaker 3: and they're doing that and they don't have to do that.
Speaker 3: But the more they do that, the more it is
Speaker 3: that everybody has to surrender. So that's that's you know,
Speaker 3: that's why it's important for people to stand.
Speaker 1: Up lightning ground. Who is the most dangerous member of
Speaker 1: Trump's cabinet maybe RFK.
Speaker 3: I think you can make an argument with that. Hegseeth
Speaker 3: is a is a cipher Rubio, right, he doesn't arise
Speaker 3: to the level of cipher. Also, I mean mostly the
Speaker 3: cabinet is cipher, consists of ciphers. Gnome is basically a character.
Speaker 3: She's just a cost player. Who else? Who else? We
Speaker 3: I think the people who are the most dangerous I
Speaker 3: don't think they're necessarily in the cabin I think Stephen
Speaker 3: Miller is dangerous, right, he is in some way? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I think those people, the people who have
Speaker 3: who actually care about what they're doing, as opposed to
Speaker 3: just going along for the ride, which Rubio is doing
Speaker 3: the beston is doing. Christine nom is doing it because
Speaker 3: she likes the attention and the videos and the performance art.
Speaker 3: I think Seth iSIG Seth is doing it for the
Speaker 3: same thing. I mean, maybe maybe it's the Officers Club
Speaker 3: bars throughout the world. I don't know, so I think,
Speaker 3: you know, but the but the people who really have
Speaker 3: like I mean, in the case of Russ Vaught, I mean,
Speaker 3: did you hear that quote about somebody said of him,
Speaker 3: some person in the Trump administration, that he's wanted to
Speaker 3: dismantle the government since puberty? I mean, what is that? Right?
Speaker 3: And we know and we know even Miller is a
Speaker 3: fundamentally a sick, a sick man. I mean, he would
Speaker 3: he would have fit right in other than you know,
Speaker 3: this Jewish heritage. You would have fit right in, you know,
Speaker 3: to the Nazi regime.
Speaker 1: Not good, not good. George Conway, will you come back?
Speaker 3: Always come back.
Speaker 1: Leah Greenberg and Ezra Levin are the founders of Indivisible.
Speaker 1: Welcome too fast politics, you guys.
Speaker 5: It's great to be here. We're excited.
Speaker 1: So we have the team behind the No Kings March
Speaker 1: and numerous other things. So to explain what you do
Speaker 1: at indivisible and a little bit about how you got
Speaker 1: into this, absolutely well.
Speaker 4: At Indivisible, we work with a grassroots movement that is
Speaker 4: led by regular people all over the country who have
Speaker 4: decided that they need to get involved and they need
Speaker 4: to do something. We got started in twenty sixteen, shortly
Speaker 4: after Donald Trump was elected the first time. Ezra and
Speaker 4: I we are married, We are former congressional staffers. We
Speaker 4: were absolutely furious with everything that was happening, and we
Speaker 4: decided to take all the knowledge that we had as
Speaker 4: former congressional staffers, turn it inside out and make it
Speaker 4: available to folks around the country so they could organize
Speaker 4: effectively to get together locally and pressure their elected officials
Speaker 4: to push back against Trump and trump Ism. That was
Speaker 4: the basic idea. We wrote a Google doc guide to
Speaker 4: how to do that. It went viral. Suddenly we were
Speaker 4: working with thousands of local hubs for communicaty activism all
Speaker 4: over the country who were calling themselves Indivisible Groups, which
Speaker 4: was the.
Speaker 1: Title of the guide.
Speaker 4: And we have been on a journey with those folks
Speaker 4: all over the country ever since.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing that Google doc as we do have
Speaker 1: anything else you want to add here in this.
Speaker 5: Well, that Google doc was spread around like wildfire, and
Speaker 5: we started getting all this incoming from all around the
Speaker 5: country and it al said the exact same thing, which
Speaker 5: is this guide is full of typos and so one thing, enerneybody,
Speaker 5: you've got a lesson from this. It's if you put
Speaker 5: something on the internet and then people read it, they
Speaker 5: will let you know the problems that they have with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a phenomenon that I know all too well. Yes,
Speaker 1: continue well.
Speaker 5: But then the other thing they did, they started forming
Speaker 5: these local groups and it's just been a real honor
Speaker 5: to be part of of this grassroots movement of normal
Speaker 5: everyday people, nurses and IT technicians and lawyers and teachers
Speaker 5: who are out there organizing in their home turf. I mean,
Speaker 5: this is what we need. Democracy is a participatory sport.
Speaker 6: Lea.
Speaker 5: You often say politics is too important to be left
Speaker 5: to the politicians. I think that's right. We're facing a
Speaker 5: democracy crisis right now, and we can't engage as consumers alone.
Speaker 5: We've got to engage as active participants. That's how we
Speaker 5: actually change things.
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time thinking about like why
Speaker 1: Trump two point zero is significantly scarier than Trump one
Speaker 1: point Oh, you guys interface with a lot of people
Speaker 1: in the base who are activists or mostly normal people
Speaker 1: who want to make their voices heard. Is it more
Speaker 1: people than last time? And are they more agitated.
Speaker 4: It is more people than last time. We are seeing
Speaker 4: kind of a rate of ongoing formation of new local,
Speaker 4: indivisible groups that wildly outpaces what we saw in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4: The kinds of mass mobilizations that we are seeing are
Speaker 4: take place at a scale that dwarfs a lot of
Speaker 4: what we saw in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen. I'll just
Speaker 4: give you one quick example we do well. The single
Speaker 4: largest mass mobile is the same day mass mobilization that
Speaker 4: was called more nationally in the first Trump term, where
Speaker 4: the families belong together marches to protect operation. In twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: those were incredible. There were about seven hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: around the country. This year, we saw with hands off,
Speaker 4: about thirteen hundred events and rallies around the country with
Speaker 4: no kings in June twenty one hundred. We are heading
Speaker 4: into twenty five hundred all over the country, reach into
Speaker 4: really really rural, really red areas that might not have
Speaker 4: previously had much in the way of visible progressive pro
Speaker 4: democracy organizing.
Speaker 1: So I would say that what.
Speaker 4: We're seeing is a really extraordinary and massive ground swell.
Speaker 4: And what has been so different about this time compared
Speaker 4: to twenty seventeen is not necessarily how regular people have responded.
Speaker 1: It has been the.
Speaker 4: Total collapse of elite institutions, elected officials, leaders who are
Speaker 4: ostensibly supposed to hold up some corner of the fight
Speaker 4: for democracy and have simply declined to do so.
Speaker 1: As we do. You have thoughts about that. I think
Speaker 1: that's totally right, But I'm curious if you want to
Speaker 1: add anything.
Speaker 5: Well, Lee is the real thought leader of this duo
Speaker 5: parrot which he says, but in a louder, more confident,
Speaker 5: white male voice.
Speaker 1: We'd love to see it.
Speaker 5: So I agree with all that, But just to give
Speaker 5: a sense, like I grew up in rural Texas, Hayes County, Texas,
Speaker 5: there are three No Kings Day events in rural Hayes County, Texas. Wow,
Speaker 5: we're in Burns, Oregon. That's population twenty seven hundred. We're
Speaker 5: in Bryceon City, North Carolina, population fifteen hundred. Like they're
Speaker 5: going to be big events in Washington, d C. And
Speaker 5: New York City and Chicago, and that's going to be awesome,
Speaker 5: But twenty five hundred events. Just to underline what Leah
Speaker 5: said in my white male voice, that's incredible, Like that
Speaker 5: is incredible. I mean, this is a historic level of
Speaker 5: peaceful protests that we have not seen in modern American history.
Speaker 5: The need for that is so great, exactly for the
Speaker 5: reason Lea's said, This isn't just congres failing as yet again,
Speaker 5: This isn't just Donald Trump being an idiot and an
Speaker 5: asshole like he always is. This isn't authoritary and breakthrough moment.
Speaker 5: And that means more than just your elected officials. It
Speaker 5: means media institutions and news organizations and law firms and
Speaker 5: universities who are being bullied and need to understand there's
Speaker 5: countervailing force out there, that this moment that we're in
Speaker 5: is temporary and that it will be replaced by an
Speaker 5: era of reform and accountability. And you'd better get your
Speaker 5: ass on the right side of history otherwise your reputation
Speaker 5: is going to be permanently damaged.
Speaker 1: God I think about that all the time because my
Speaker 1: grandfather was jailed by the House of an American Activities
Speaker 1: during the McArthur era. And like, if anything, we are
Speaker 1: in a new you know, a sort of a moment
Speaker 1: of backlash to backlash to backlash. So what is so
Speaker 1: clearly immoral in this moment is going to be very
Speaker 1: clearly immoral to everyone in about five minutes. So it's
Speaker 1: shocking to be that we're even seeing universities think about
Speaker 1: making deals with this guy.
Speaker 5: Look, ICE is already terrorizing communities around the country, and
Speaker 5: the money flowing into it has just started to flow.
Speaker 5: One hundred and seventy one billion dollars flooding into a
Speaker 5: secret police force. You think that's going to look better
Speaker 5: as the months stick by. You think that's going to
Speaker 5: look better when all of the Proud Boys are on
Speaker 5: the federal payroll. No, you have a choice. Get on
Speaker 5: the right side of history now. Otherwise. Look, new leaders
Speaker 5: are going to come to the forefront and you're going
Speaker 5: to be in mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really true. If you're listening to
Speaker 1: this and you're wondering what you can do, talk us
Speaker 1: through what that looks like, what the options are there.
Speaker 4: Well, first and foremost, we're going to tell you to
Speaker 4: come out to protest with us on Saturday. You are
Speaker 4: probably pretty close to your nearest No King's event. In fact,
Speaker 4: pretty much no matter where you are, wherever you are
Speaker 4: in the country, you are pretty close to a No
Speaker 4: King's event. So find your event, get your American flags,
Speaker 4: get ready, go on out and be in community with
Speaker 4: that big group of people who are collectively coming out
Speaker 4: and fighting for to my sie. But you know, we
Speaker 4: also want that to be the beginning, not the end, right, Like,
Speaker 4: we want people to be finding their local home for
Speaker 4: organized activism, for getting involved, for pushing back within your community,
Speaker 4: you know, organizing, whether that's to support immigrants who are
Speaker 4: under attack, whether that's mutual aid for people who as
Speaker 4: livelihoods are being harmed by the Trump cuts, whether that
Speaker 4: is getting getting involved in elections and helping to push
Speaker 4: back in an electro way.
Speaker 1: It's going to take all of us.
Speaker 4: Collectively, you know, as kind of a massive symphony of
Speaker 4: defiance pushing back against this administration. And the best way
Speaker 4: to get that started is to get involved with a
Speaker 4: local organizing home.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we're seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of is that Republicans are really freaked out by these protests,
Speaker 1: and their message is that the Zantifa that this is
Speaker 1: not okay, that this is so talk us through some
Speaker 1: of these talking points and why you think they're so
Speaker 1: agitated about those.
Speaker 5: There's such utter bullshit you almost have to take it
Speaker 5: as a compliment. Molly, right, like, they ignore you, then
Speaker 5: they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Speaker 5: We're one step from winning, Molly. They're fighting now and
Speaker 5: they don't know how to do it. They are terrified
Speaker 5: of peaceful protest. And that's true of authoritarian regimes all
Speaker 5: over the world.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: The Trump attacks on our states, on our communities, on
Speaker 5: our government, that doesn't come from a place of strength.
Speaker 5: This guy's unpopular. He's a lang dunk president. He's on
Speaker 5: the way out. He's worried that his grip on power
Speaker 5: has a time limitation on it, and the time is ticking,
Speaker 5: and so he's lashing out. Authoritarians want you to feel lone.
Speaker 5: And so this promise that the largest peaceful protest in
Speaker 5: modern American history is coming together this week and ease terrifying,
Speaker 5: and so they're trying to attack it. They can't even
Speaker 5: say no Kings if you watch their talking points, if
Speaker 5: you listen to them, they can't even say the words
Speaker 5: no Kings because they know how unobjectionable that would be,
Speaker 5: so they make up some other words about it. So
Speaker 5: I mainly thank them for the free publicity, and then
Speaker 5: on a serious note, they're trying to up some fear
Speaker 5: they're trying to disincentivize people from exercising their First Amendment rights.
Speaker 5: And so what we do in response to that is
Speaker 5: we train people on de escalation, and we train people
Speaker 5: on safety. We make sure every single one of these
Speaker 5: events has a safety lead and a safety plan, and
Speaker 5: every single interview you see us do you will see
Speaker 5: us emphasizing the non violence, peaceful nature of this. This
Speaker 5: is us protecting our constitutional rights. And that's it, and
Speaker 5: that's enough. That's enough to be impactful, and it's enough
Speaker 5: to make it important, and it's enough to scare them.
Speaker 5: But Jesus out of the Republicans in Congress and the
Speaker 5: members of this regime who would like to see those
Speaker 5: rights go.
Speaker 4: Away, I agree with all that, and I would also
Speaker 4: just add I think we're also seeing that they are
Speaker 4: they understand that they have gotten themselves into a pretty
Speaker 4: uncomfortable position on the shutdown that they are you know,
Speaker 4: the American people are blaming them for keeping the government
Speaker 4: shut down rather than giving folks healthcare, and they are
Speaker 4: kind of just desperately casting around for any message that
Speaker 4: will take the heat off of them. So I think
Speaker 4: we've got to see this as both you know, sinister
Speaker 4: in that it is trying to create the permission structure
Speaker 4: for the Stephen Miller field crackdown, but also a sign
Speaker 4: of the desperation of a party that recognizes that it
Speaker 4: has gotten itself into a pretty uncomfortable position and that
Speaker 4: people are blaming it for the pain that its.
Speaker 1: Cuts are causing. Explain what is happening in Portland and
Speaker 1: why the costumes? Can you explain that to us, why
Speaker 1: people are dressing up in costumes and a little bit
Speaker 1: about that the way that works exactly absolutely Portland frog.
Speaker 1: We've all seen Portland frog. Right, So here's what we
Speaker 1: understand about Donald Trump and Stephen Miller.
Speaker 4: They are trying to create the visuals. They are trying
Speaker 4: to create the stories that will justify further violent crackdowns
Speaker 4: on scent and on blue cities and states. And that
Speaker 4: is part of their overall playbook, that they are trying
Speaker 4: to generate the excuses necessary to escalate further. And so,
Speaker 4: you know, a classic part of how you respond to authoritarians,
Speaker 4: how you respond to attempted repression, is with humor that
Speaker 4: exposes the kind of fundamental contradictions of what they are doing.
Speaker 4: And that is what we've seen folks doing in Portland. Right, first,
Speaker 4: the first person shows up with the frog costumes. Suddenly
Speaker 4: there are inflatable costumes all over the place. It's pretty
Speaker 4: hard if you are Stephen Miller to say we got
Speaker 4: to double our National Guard presence in Portland because there
Speaker 4: are a bunch of inflatable frogs walking around outside, right,
Speaker 4: So it kind of lets the air out of the
Speaker 4: would be out of the the cycle of misinformation and
Speaker 4: you know, posing as the excuse for the next round
Speaker 4: of excalations. And so I think it's part of a
Speaker 4: broader tradition of leaning into humor to expose what an
Speaker 4: authoritarian is actually trying to do and to avoid falling
Speaker 4: into falling into the traps that they are setting. And
Speaker 4: I hope to see a lot of frog costumes out
Speaker 4: for No King's protests on Saturday.
Speaker 5: It's also look, I think this is brilliant as a
Speaker 5: strategy and it's so organic and it just came together.
Speaker 5: But in additionally your point that they don't want to
Speaker 5: be ridiculed, the other thing is they want you to
Speaker 5: be scared to participate in these protests. And if you
Speaker 5: went out for Hands Off or for May Day or
Speaker 5: for No Kings one. What you saw was joy. You
Speaker 5: saw people having a good freaking time. They were dancing
Speaker 5: and they were laughing, they were funny signs, they were
Speaker 5: making fun of Trump and the regime, they were meeting
Speaker 5: new people. It was a scene and you want to
Speaker 5: be part of that. So one of the things I
Speaker 5: would ask for anybody thinking of going to their first
Speaker 5: protest on Saturday is have a good time. Bring some
Speaker 5: friends out, pump up your march with it fun music,
Speaker 5: get some dancing going on, make make it a place
Speaker 5: where people want to be. This has got to be
Speaker 5: a popular movement for democracy. And look, we're doing serious stuff.
Speaker 5: We're we're saving democracy, we're fighting against the fascist Yes,
Speaker 5: that's real and that's serious. But if this is a
Speaker 5: place where people don't feel welcome, people don't feel like
Speaker 5: it's a fun place to be, it's not going to
Speaker 5: become the mass movement that we need it to be.
Speaker 5: So by all means, get that inflatable costume out there, like,
Speaker 5: we want more of that because then people are gonna
Speaker 5: want to show up.
Speaker 1: And there's also part of this is the hilarious music,
Speaker 1: right because the Trump administration wants it to like there
Speaker 1: was sort of a Benny Hill music situation. And part
Speaker 1: of that is they want optics that look like these
Speaker 1: protesters are scary, right, that's right.
Speaker 5: One of my favorite things was seeing a guy with
Speaker 5: a big tuba following around the right way, just making
Speaker 5: it absolutely ridiculous. Or the people in DC I saw
Speaker 5: falling around the members of Ice, or the National Guard
Speaker 5: playing the Star Wars Darth Vader music. I think there
Speaker 5: are untapped veins of creativity here that folks should explore.
Speaker 5: Get creative, make this real. This is not just being
Speaker 5: manufactured in some kind of top down way. It's legit.
Speaker 5: It's grassroots. The inflatable cartoon characters came out in Portland.
Speaker 5: Let's see what comes out in Austin or Minneapolis or
Speaker 5: storm like Iowa. I'm curious.
Speaker 1: I would love you guys to explain what it does
Speaker 1: to have huge protests, like explain why they're so nervous
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I will say, I think it's a few different things.
Speaker 4: The first is just, quite literally, it disrupts a certain
Speaker 4: chilling effect that they are trying, that they're trying to
Speaker 4: have take root in America. Right, So much of their
Speaker 4: playbook is about creating fear so that people preemptively obey.
Speaker 4: It is about having everyone sort of think, oh, I
Speaker 4: had better fall in line and doing it. And if
Speaker 4: they do that, then you don't even have to like
Speaker 4: roll out the full repression agenda. People have already fallen
Speaker 4: in line. And that's what we've seen with a bunch
Speaker 4: of businesses, that's what we've seen with a bunch of you, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 4: And it doesn't work as well when it comes to
Speaker 4: regular people. And so a large protest in a period
Speaker 4: where it would be fascist is trying to consolidate control,
Speaker 4: is a very visible demonstration that we will not be
Speaker 4: falling in line, that we are actually going to disrupt
Speaker 4: that cycle of anticipatory obedience. So that's like, that's one
Speaker 4: big piece. The second is, if we're going to get
Speaker 4: out of this, we are going to have to have
Speaker 4: so many people do things that the regime does not
Speaker 4: want them to do, and so many people not do
Speaker 4: things that the region wants them to do. It's going
Speaker 4: to look like a thousand different forms of defiance.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 4: It looks like stuff like you know, organizing to push
Speaker 4: back on some of those law firms that have have
Speaker 4: complied with Trump. It looks like college students and alumni
Speaker 4: pushing back on their universities. It looks like people in
Speaker 4: their jobs saying, hey, I think that's in illegal order,
Speaker 4: or hey, I'm not going to do that. You're going
Speaker 4: to have to fire me if you want if you
Speaker 4: want me to do it. For people to do that
Speaker 4: kind of stuff, they need to feel like they are
Speaker 4: part of a movement. They need to feel like it's
Speaker 4: more than just me taking an action on my own.
Speaker 4: They need to understand that there are millions of other
Speaker 4: people who are each kind of grabbing their thread and
Speaker 4: pulling at the same time. And so a big event
Speaker 4: like this is actually part of how we form that
Speaker 4: mass identity of whatever I'm doing, whether I'm you know,
Speaker 4: raising my hand at a PTA meeting and saying, hey,
Speaker 4: what are we doing to protect students from ice, or
Speaker 4: whether I'm, you know, trying to organize within my workplace.
Speaker 4: Whatever I'm doing, I'm part of something much bigger, and
Speaker 4: so the risk that I'm taking other people are taking
Speaker 4: that risk with me. And then the third is it's
Speaker 4: it's a mechanism for getting people more involved. As I
Speaker 4: was talking about earlier, you really want people to come
Speaker 4: out to these events, but also to stay involved in
Speaker 4: a local organizing home that helps them take more action
Speaker 4: and more escalate action. Right, we want people to be
Speaker 4: coming out to a protest, but then we also want
Speaker 4: them to be showing up at a town hall and
Speaker 4: talking to their local elected representatives. We want them to
Speaker 4: be joining consumer boycotts like the push to get to
Speaker 4: get Disney to put Kimmel back on the air. We
Speaker 4: want them to be organizing in their house of worship
Speaker 4: and in their school and in whatever venues they actually have.
Speaker 4: And in order to do that, we actually have to
Speaker 4: have that local infrastructure, and we have to have people
Speaker 4: plugged in. And so we really want to make sure
Speaker 4: that when people and come out, we get them engaged
Speaker 4: in a way that's ongoing.
Speaker 1: That's really important when people push back on Kimmel. It
Speaker 1: was humongous, and it made me wonder if the numbers
Speaker 1: are bigger than we think they are because of this
Speaker 1: sort of siloed media infrastructure. You guys are interfacing with
Speaker 1: these groups, and I mean, I know you don't have
Speaker 1: a mechanism for sort of counting the numbers, but those
Speaker 1: Kimmel numbers were big, and I just wonder what your
Speaker 1: sort of sense is for this Saturday. And then I
Speaker 1: know you shouldn't ask people to guess stuff like this
Speaker 1: or predict the future, but I'm just curious.
Speaker 5: Look from our own perspective, we've been in this wave
Speaker 5: moment that's less than ten months now. We still have
Speaker 5: five to eight new indivisible groups wearing every single day Molly,
Speaker 5: every single day. We've doubled the number of indivisible groups
Speaker 5: this year, We've quadrupled our own membership. We keep it
Speaker 5: on extras, specking it to die down, and it doesn't.
Speaker 5: It just doesn't. More and more people are coming in organizing.
Speaker 5: Shout out to Patsy in Hatboro, Pennsylvania, a town of
Speaker 5: eight thousand that just formed Hatborough Indivisible. Welcome to the woman.
Speaker 5: That's what it looks like. And so I think what
Speaker 5: we saw with Kimmel was an incredible case study and
Speaker 5: how this can actually push back against authoritarianism. And I
Speaker 5: think the smart way this movement develops going forward. Diano
Speaker 5: Kings is looking for those opportunities where the regime threatens
Speaker 5: an institution. The institution buckles. Is very clear that they buckled.
Speaker 5: There is a clear target who cares that the mass
Speaker 5: movement of pro democracy. Folks around the country don't like that.
Speaker 5: Those folks have an action item, they carry out that
Speaker 5: action item, and then there's a response. I don't know
Speaker 5: who the next Disney's going to be, but I can
Speaker 5: tell you the way this regime is lasting out, there's
Speaker 5: going to be another one. And the good thing about
Speaker 5: Disney Kimmel's back on the air. But the better thing
Speaker 5: about Disney is all these other media institution saw then said,
Speaker 5: oh shit, I don't want that to happen to me.
Speaker 5: You don't actually have to fight every single fight. You
Speaker 5: do need to win some high profile ones like that,
Speaker 5: and so we're looking out for the next opportunities. I
Speaker 5: think that's where it's going to go. And I think
Speaker 5: there is going to be another institution that finds itself
Speaker 5: on the wrong side of this and quickly shifts over,
Speaker 5: and that is just going to fuel the movement more
Speaker 5: and more.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 5: What is this week and going to look like it's
Speaker 5: going to be the biggest peaceful protestsman modern American answer?
Speaker 1: I guarantee you, Wow, that's very cool. Stay safe, stay peaceful.
Speaker 1: What's the call to action?
Speaker 4: Go to no Kings dot org and find your local
Speaker 4: event for this Saturday and show up. Bring your friends,
Speaker 4: bring your family, bring your funny signs and your frog costumes.
Speaker 4: We want it all.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for joining, Thanks for having
Speaker 1: us all.
Speaker 5: Great talking all.
Speaker 2: Jesse Canon Mai junk Fast. So one of the things
Speaker 2: a lot of po don't realize is when you hear
Speaker 2: about Trump in a third term and how stupid this is.
Speaker 2: A lot of this is because one person talks about
Speaker 2: it all day long. His name is Steve Bennon. He
Speaker 2: went on the world's stupidest show, which is called Batya Wait.
Speaker 1: We need a minute here on Bodya because you know
Speaker 1: who batya ish.
Speaker 2: I have followed Botia for longer than I would like.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Botia used to be a big lefty.
Speaker 2: And then she decided I will defend Trump no matter
Speaker 2: what and make a fool of myself on cable television
Speaker 2: because it's the brand. Baby.
Speaker 1: Let's hear it, Jesse. Cut to the video clues.
Speaker 7: So let me ask you about Trump twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 7: We have a twenty second amendment which bar is anybody
Speaker 7: from running for a third term. Do you think that
Speaker 7: there's that's not a barrier for him? Or how do
Speaker 7: you see that I.
Speaker 6: Think that there are many different alternatives that at the
Speaker 6: appropriate time after the midterms in twenty six we will
Speaker 6: roll out. But I think there are many different alternatives
Speaker 6: to make sure that President Trump is on the ballot,
Speaker 6: and if he's on the ballot, he'll win.
Speaker 1: So Batya, who I used to know is a liberal
Speaker 1: before she decided nothing matters. Look, man, Donald Trump cannot
Speaker 1: run again. He is lame duck. My man Steve Bannon
Speaker 1: knows that, and he knows that that is a position
Speaker 1: of weakness, and so he wants people to think that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump can run again, but he cannot and he
Speaker 1: will not. And the other thing is by then he'll
Speaker 1: be eighty three. And there we go. You're welcome, Jesse kenn.
Speaker 2: God knows what he's mumbling about. Aside from not getting
Speaker 2: into heaven by them eighty.
Speaker 1: Three, I'm sure he'll be just sharp as a tech
Speaker 1: at eighty three.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
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