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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. When I did this, people thought I was crazy.

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Speaker 1: I mean I went to every label, and every label

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Speaker 1: was saying no to me. They were like, Scooter, your

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Speaker 1: grade at marketing, but like it's a YouTube kid, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you guys are not understanding. There's a sleeping

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Speaker 1: giant over here. You're not paying attention. I had one

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Speaker 1: of the most impressive executives in music history, tell me,

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Speaker 1: where's the sex appeal. He's a young kid. I don't

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Speaker 1: get it. There's no sex appeal. And then I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you need to look at YouTube and this person who's

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Speaker 1: running a major, major label group. They said, well, can

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Speaker 1: you get us a DVD? And I said, you just

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Speaker 1: all I gotta do is type it in and look

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Speaker 1: at the YouTube numbers. And they said, well, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: use the internet. And I discovered Justin Bieber on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman and welcome to Math and Magic. Stories

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Speaker 1: from the Frontiers and Marketing. I've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: jobs over the years. I co founded MTV, I started businesses.

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Speaker 1: I'm also the chairman and CEO of I Heart Media,

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Speaker 1: America's number one audio company. And that's part of my story,

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Speaker 1: but also started out in a little town in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: son of a minister, got my first real job at

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Speaker 1: a radio station when I was fifteen. It's where my

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Speaker 1: roots are, music voices, hearing people's stories, and one of

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Speaker 1: the things I've always loved is trying to decode how

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Speaker 1: big ideas find their way into the world. Each episode,

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Speaker 1: I chat with someone I truly admire to hear all

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Speaker 1: about the data and the creativity, the math and magic

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Speaker 1: that goes into the world's greatest marketing. We've had the

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Speaker 1: analytical mathematicians and the wildly creative magicians on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today we have someone who defies all the labels. As

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about it that I really was at

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Speaker 1: a loss really to describe Scooter Braun born in the

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Speaker 1: dawn of the eighties. Grew up in Connecticut, serious high

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Speaker 1: school basketball star. Looking at him and he's smiling. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's right. Emory University drop out when display the

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Speaker 1: music business, became a very students successful investor, family guy,

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Speaker 1: and you've made it a point to use your brains

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Speaker 1: and influence to make the world a better place too.

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Speaker 1: So names he's associated with Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, Kanye,

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Speaker 1: Carli Class, Dory, Kelly, Black Eyed peas, Uber, Spotify, Casper, Pinterest.

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Speaker 1: We welcome Scooter Hey, thank you very much. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: being here. We're gonna do you in sixty seconds. Quick

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Speaker 1: questions Lightning Brown style. Don't think too long to say

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Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to your mind exactly. So

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Speaker 1: here we go. Ready. Do you prefer Atlanta or l A?

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Speaker 1: Now l A because I have my kids in l A.

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Speaker 1: Pancakes or waffles, pancakes, Chess or checkers, Chess, Superman or Batman,

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Speaker 1: Superman one time or baby both of a special place

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Speaker 1: in my heart. I'll go with baby, Giants or Jets.

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Speaker 1: I hate the Giants. I'm a die hard jets man.

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Speaker 1: Easy care we go, It's about to get harder. Favorite

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Speaker 1: song walking in Memphis. Smartest person you know probably David

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Speaker 1: Gett's childhood hero, my dad. Historical idol, historical idol that

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Speaker 1: was tough. A lot of people have admired from history.

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Speaker 1: I was obsessed with Abraham Lincoln as a kid. We'll

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Speaker 1: take him. If you could have one superpower, what would

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Speaker 1: it be to control the weather? Quote, to live by,

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Speaker 1: be kind for everyone, walks a hard journey, worst fat

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Speaker 1: or fashion trend in music? Face tattoos. I just don't

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Speaker 1: get it. And I got friends who have them. And

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Speaker 1: what are you most proud of? My family? Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: start with your name. How did you get Scooter? My

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Speaker 1: real name is Scott. I went to a birthday party,

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Speaker 1: probably when I was in second or third grade, and

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Speaker 1: there was like a clown magician and he said, what's

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Speaker 1: your name? And I said Scott. He goes, oh, Scooter,

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Speaker 1: and I said, that is now my name. And my

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Speaker 1: brother saw the aggravation that I had with this name Scooter,

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Speaker 1: and that is all he needed to see for him

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Speaker 1: to want to haunt me with the name throughout the

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Speaker 1: rest of my life, because that's what little brothers do.

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Speaker 1: My sophomore year of high school, I think it was

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Speaker 1: I came out of the gym, you know, dribbling the

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Speaker 1: basketball as the point guard, and my brother had a

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Speaker 1: bunch of my friends like holding signs like ride the

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Speaker 1: scooter to victory and Scooter this, scooter that. And then

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Speaker 1: when I went to college my first year, my buddy

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Speaker 1: bet me a hundred bucks. And when he came to

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Speaker 1: visit me later on in the school year and my

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Speaker 1: freshman year of college that I couldn't convince everyone my

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Speaker 1: name was Scooter, and I just took the bet. So

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Speaker 1: I went in there and they'd say, okay, freshman orientation

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Speaker 1: Scott Braun. I would be like, hah no, it's actually

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Speaker 1: a mistake. My name of Scooter. And and then I

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Speaker 1: started my business pretty much right away freshman year, and

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Speaker 1: Scooter became a marketing tool. Scott something you forget, Scooter,

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Speaker 1: you don't forget. I'm a Gemini. So the sign of

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Speaker 1: the twin. So there's Scott and there's Scooter. My wife

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Speaker 1: calls me Scott. I'm Scott at home, and Scooter is

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Speaker 1: somebody who's outside the house. I've seen you with your parents,

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Speaker 1: and you have this incredible relationship with your parents, very

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Speaker 1: obvious sort of oozes that love and support. How was

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Speaker 1: your childhood. I'm very lucky. I had two incredibly supportive,

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Speaker 1: loving parents. But my dad was really really tough on me.

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Speaker 1: My dad understood how to work each one of his kids.

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Speaker 1: If you actually look at the five of us, were

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Speaker 1: all successful in our own way, and it's really remarkable

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Speaker 1: how well they've done with us. And I hope that

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Speaker 1: I can raise my kids the same level that my

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Speaker 1: parents did have. Not only that we all successful, but

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Speaker 1: we're all very close and we're all extremely loving. But

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Speaker 1: my dad realized with me that I was probably the

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Speaker 1: toughest one to raise. I was the most rebellious, and

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Speaker 1: his way of getting the most out of me one

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Speaker 1: stand on my ass, but also disrespecting me a lot

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Speaker 1: to make me do the right thing, because he knew

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Speaker 1: that I would run in the direction of disrespect. So

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Speaker 1: I remember playing basketball and him insulting me to the

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Speaker 1: point of tears, but I'd go out and play like

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Speaker 1: an animal to prove him wrong. For me, it worked.

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Speaker 1: But he was also the coach at every game, and

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Speaker 1: you know, in the stands for every game, And when

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Speaker 1: I started acting out in seventh grade and beyond, he

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Speaker 1: never gave up with me. And he was tough as hell.

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Speaker 1: And when I was eighteen, I was like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go to Atlanta and get far away from these people.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I love him, but I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: my own man. And then you kind of go in

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Speaker 1: the cycle. You realize you're trying to prove something to

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Speaker 1: someone who already loved you, and now I say that

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Speaker 1: out of any man in the world. If you ask

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Speaker 1: me who I admire the most, it's him. So let

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Speaker 1: me ask you a question. Will you use this technique

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Speaker 1: with your kids if they're like me. My brother didn't

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Speaker 1: need it, Adam, my sister didn't need it, and he

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Speaker 1: wasn't tough on them. He was tough on them, but

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Speaker 1: not to the level of the way he was with me.

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Speaker 1: I could have gone really in the wrong direction with

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Speaker 1: how rebellious I was. When a young man is being

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Speaker 1: that rebellious, he's looking for boundaries. He wants to know

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Speaker 1: somebody gives a damn. And my dad said boundaries, and

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Speaker 1: he fought me like hell, and he showed me he

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Speaker 1: gave a damn. So how about as a manager, you

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Speaker 1: wind up using this technique on anybody. No, I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen anybody completely like me. There were times with Justin

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Speaker 1: where you get competitive, and I pushed him in that

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Speaker 1: direction a little bit. I've perfected my dad's methods because

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Speaker 1: I've molded in my mom's methods. And my mom was idealistic,

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Speaker 1: she was comforting, she was tough, but she was always

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Speaker 1: beyond supportive, and she didn't use those methods. And I

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Speaker 1: think kind of Combining the two of them is where

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Speaker 1: I'm at now. But I definitely all the great things

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Speaker 1: that my dad taught me I have implemented into my

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Speaker 1: life as as an executive, as a manager, as an entrepreneur.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like basketball was a real theme growing up. What

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Speaker 1: did you learn from it? I think basketball taught me

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Speaker 1: one this brotherhood of support, to the idea that you

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Speaker 1: can't win without a team, and three play your role

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Speaker 1: and play it well because you're part of a larger

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Speaker 1: you know, a larger thing. It's not about you. You know,

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Speaker 1: my name is on the door, my company, all these

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Speaker 1: different things, but I stand on the shoulders of everyone else.

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Speaker 1: What do you do to build a team? There? Get

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Speaker 1: people they're smarter than you and things that you're not

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Speaker 1: good at. I'm really good at things I'm good, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really bad at the things I'm not. I heavily

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Speaker 1: depend on other people to do their job well. I

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Speaker 1: need my power forward, I need my center, I need

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Speaker 1: I need my Alice and k who's been with me

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Speaker 1: for a decade, who is brilliant at all the things

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Speaker 1: that I am not. And I've been lucky enough to

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Speaker 1: not be the smartest person in the room. So how

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Speaker 1: do you drive the team? People have different skills. You're

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Speaker 1: not using your dad's technique exactly. How do I motivate

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Speaker 1: my team? One, You've got to set the example. You

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Speaker 1: set the example of drive and effort, and I think

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Speaker 1: it starts from the top. You've got to show people

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Speaker 1: the passion in the drive, in the work ethic. I think,

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Speaker 1: if it's eleven o'clock at night or twelve o'clock at

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Speaker 1: night or one o'clock in the morning and something isn't done,

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Speaker 1: no one's going to stay and get it done unless

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Speaker 1: they care about you. So let's go back to the

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Speaker 1: beginning to college. You go to Emery Great School in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: You said you started the business in your freshman year.

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Speaker 1: What kind of business? Um? I was helping young people

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Speaker 1: receive identification. You can figure out what that means. Oh,

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Speaker 1: they were good, they were very good. But I was

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Speaker 1: a business person and how I did it, and that's

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Speaker 1: a much longer story. And I turned it into a

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Speaker 1: very profitable business very quickly. But my partner kind of

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Speaker 1: broke my protocol. So I walked away from that cold

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Speaker 1: turkey because I knew if he broke the protocol, we

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Speaker 1: get caught and I didn't want that to define me

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Speaker 1: in my future, so I stopped doing that. And then

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Speaker 1: I walked by a nightclub in Buckhead and Atlanta, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: and I saw this club that was empty, and I said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: if I bring people here next week, would you pay me?

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Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, sure. How many people? Does

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Speaker 1: it all the eight hundred? I said, okay, I'll bring

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Speaker 1: it under and he looked at me like I was crazy.

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Speaker 1: When to Kinko has made flyers, called it Kryptonite entertainment

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Speaker 1: because I'm a Superman fan, got all these freshman girls

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Speaker 1: to help me and through my first party and eight

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Speaker 1: people came very quickly. I learned the ropes from a

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Speaker 1: local promoter who was an Ethiopian immigrant named Alex get A,

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Speaker 1: one who started off as a parking lot of tenant

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Speaker 1: and became guy, passed out flyers and became a promoter

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Speaker 1: and now is the bigest club owner in Atlanta. And

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Speaker 1: he took a liking to me and taught me the

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Speaker 1: ropes Tuesday nights at Velvet Room, where I was the

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Speaker 1: only white boy in the room, and he used to

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Speaker 1: stay with his stutter la let the white boy in

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Speaker 1: and then I would take the money I made on

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Speaker 1: Thursdays and spend it with Alex's club, kind of faking

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Speaker 1: until I make it. And I learned the ropes and

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Speaker 1: became a very big party promoter in Atlanta, Georgia. Is

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Speaker 1: that why you left college? I left college because I

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Speaker 1: was doing that. But then I started helping artists at

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Speaker 1: my parties. Jermaine Dupri approached me after I had worked

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Speaker 1: with this new up and coming artist who was Chris

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Speaker 1: lovel Love on the Radio's name was Ludicrous. Jermaine asked

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Speaker 1: me to come help him and he made me verse

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Speaker 1: the executive director of marketing and then the VP of

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Speaker 1: Marketing at Socio Deft Records. And I was twenty years

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Speaker 1: old and Emery didn't offer night classes or internet classes.

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Speaker 1: I still wanted to make it work, but I was

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Speaker 1: now in academic probation because I was missing so many classes.

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Speaker 1: And I got brought into a counselor's office and I

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Speaker 1: told him, no, no, there's no drug brom there's no

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Speaker 1: nothing like. I'm not reprobation because I'm working hard, and

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Speaker 1: and he told me the story of Robert Woodruff, the

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Speaker 1: founder of Coca Cola. At the largest sendowment in Emery

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Speaker 1: and what a great entrepreneur he was. And I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: this guy gets me. All of a sudden, he turns

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Speaker 1: to me and he says, and the chance of you

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Speaker 1: being Robert Woodruff is wanted a billion, So we need

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Speaker 1: to turn this around. You need to focus on academics.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, I don't deal well with disrespect.

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Speaker 1: So I looked at him and I said, no, I

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Speaker 1: need to do. He goes, we're gonna turn around. I said, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm withdrawing, and I dropped out of school and never

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Speaker 1: looked back. This was the end of your junior year,

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Speaker 1: midway through my sophomore year. I'm glad to say that

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Speaker 1: I've actually started working with a lot of young entrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: at Emery now, and the new leadership and Emery the

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Speaker 1: dean's there now. They're supportive of these young people in

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Speaker 1: their entrepreneurial dreams. I probably wouldn't have dropped out if

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Speaker 1: they existed back then. And you stayed in Atlanta for

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Speaker 1: how long till I was thirty years old? I've stayed

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Speaker 1: there for when I was eighteen till I was thirty.

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Speaker 1: I built the entire business in Atlanta. Atlanta was the

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Speaker 1: place where young entrepreneur, could you know, pay cheap rent

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Speaker 1: and build something significant. I had incredible mentors and so

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Speaker 1: port there from guys like Shaka Zulu who was ludacrous

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Speaker 1: as manager, to this guy Shakier Stewart passed away who

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Speaker 1: was one of the first people who believed in me.

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Speaker 1: Then Steve Rifkin came in my life and I signed

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Speaker 1: Asher Roth. I ended up staying there until I realized

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Speaker 1: there was one year where two weeks out of the

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Speaker 1: year I slept in my own bed, and I always

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Speaker 1: on breaks be find myself in l A and New York,

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Speaker 1: and I knew I needed to make a change, and

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Speaker 1: I decided to move to l A. I still own

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Speaker 1: my apartment in Atlanta. Is it available in Airbnb? It

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Speaker 1: is not. It is the apartment that I discovered justin Bieber.

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Speaker 1: Funny enough, that's pretty cool. So you're in Atlanta, you're

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Speaker 1: working for a company, and then you go out on

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Speaker 1: your own. What happened there? I'm working for Jermaine. I

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Speaker 1: decided to stop doing parties Cold Turkey because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to stop being labeled a promoter when I was this

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Speaker 1: young VP and everyone still said, oh, he's a big promoter.

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Speaker 1: I don't like labels. I think that's what kind of

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Speaker 1: encourages me to jump from one thing to the next.

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Speaker 1: I don't like being listed as anything. Entrepreneur is all

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Speaker 1: I really want, or Dad that would work for me too.

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Speaker 1: I would like to say that I had the courage

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Speaker 1: like a Jimmy Ivan when he could just walk away.

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Speaker 1: It starts with me new But I didn't have that courage.

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Speaker 1: I had the idea, I knew it's what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do, but I was still scared. I was scared

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Speaker 1: of being this young VP and having the credibility of

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Speaker 1: Germaine and what am I without it? And sometimes the

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Speaker 1: universe has an incredible way of fixing things for you

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Speaker 1: when you don't have the courage. And one day something

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Speaker 1: happened at the office and I was let go, not

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Speaker 1: by Germaine, by his mom um Jermaine. I went to

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Speaker 1: go see him like are you kidding me? Like I'm

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Speaker 1: one of the you know, the winners here, and he said,

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Speaker 1: I'll just give it two more weeks and I'll figure

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Speaker 1: it out. And I realized, this isn't where I want

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Speaker 1: to have a career the rest of my life. This

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Speaker 1: is actually what I wanted. I was just too scared.

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Speaker 1: I drove to this Kroger parking lot near my apartment

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Speaker 1: and I remember sitting on the hood of my car

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Speaker 1: being like, what the hell am I going to do? Now?

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Speaker 1: My brother was backpacking, you know, roughing around South America,

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Speaker 1: and I had been reading his blog journal entries fifteen

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Speaker 1: dollar bus rides and five dollar hostels, and I bought

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Speaker 1: a one way ticket to Chile, bought a backpack, filled

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Speaker 1: it up, and I left for a month. And I

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Speaker 1: always thought backpacking was the thing, like rich kids did

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Speaker 1: to escape their lives. And I realized when I was

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Speaker 1: down there, these aren't rich kids, and these people are

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Speaker 1: actually living adventures. Every single day they wake up and

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Speaker 1: they're going to do something new. They're not just going

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Speaker 1: back to the same old thing. It not only re

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Speaker 1: energized me, but it restored my faith in humanity because

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Speaker 1: I was dealing with a cash business in Atlanta, Georgia

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Speaker 1: when Atlanta, Georgia was dangerous. I just didn't trust people

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Speaker 1: at that point. I was looking for a snake everywhere

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Speaker 1: I went. Now I'm in this hostel and my brothers like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: put your bag over there, and I'm like, where do

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Speaker 1: we lock things up, and he's like, oh, you just

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Speaker 1: have to trust people. I'm like, we don't know these people,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, you gotta believe. By the way, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't encourage people to live like that. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: locked my doors, but it did make me realize the

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Speaker 1: better way to live is to live thinking something good

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Speaker 1: is going to happen, and then assuming something bad is

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Speaker 1: going to happen. And when I came back, I chose

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Speaker 1: to make that decision on how I wanted to live.

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Speaker 1: Started my own company, did a big deal for Ludicrous.

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Speaker 1: So I had a calling card in marketing, and I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sign acts that no one wants, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna prove my thesis with social media. And you found

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Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, first Astra Roth on my Space and then

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Speaker 1: Justin Bieber on YouTube. Your thesis was social media. No

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Speaker 1: one knew about it. You knew about it. They were

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Speaker 1: too old, too out of touch. Yeah. I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting here with my Space, you know, seeing people use music,

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Speaker 1: and then with YouTube, I'm like, this is touching people

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Speaker 1: all around the world. These views are getting bigger and bigger.

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Speaker 1: I could see the analytics on where it's happening in

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Speaker 1: different countries, and every time I bring it up to someone,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, YouTube stars don't become real stars. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, look at the views and now it's

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Speaker 1: you know, commonplace and ours are like what are your

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Speaker 1: YouTube views? And but when I did this, people thought

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Speaker 1: I was crazy. I mean I went to every label

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Speaker 1: and every label was saying no to me. They were like, Scooter,

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Speaker 1: your grade at marketing, but like, it's a YouTube kid,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, you guys are not understanding. There's a

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Speaker 1: sleeping giant over here. You're not paying attention. I had

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Speaker 1: one of the most impressive executives in music history, tell

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Speaker 1: me where's the sex appeal? He's a young kid. I

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Speaker 1: don't get it. There's no sex appeal. And then I said,

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Speaker 1: well you need to look at YouTube and this person

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Speaker 1: who's running a major, major label group. They said, well,

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Speaker 1: can you get us a DVD? And I said, you

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Speaker 1: just all I gotta do is type it in and

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Speaker 1: look at the YouTube numbers. And they said, well, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't use the internet. I said, how do you not

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Speaker 1: use the internet if you're running a major label group

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Speaker 1: with the future of where music is going? And I

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Speaker 1: realized there's a big opportunity here. I was able to

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Speaker 1: team up with Usher and I wanted a label deal

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Speaker 1: for us, and I was just like, I'll help you

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Speaker 1: get this deal. Took six months to get the deal

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Speaker 1: done because no one believed get the deal done, and

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Speaker 1: then they don't open a budget for me. And I

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Speaker 1: had to go to Tricky Stewart and Dream, who I

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Speaker 1: was friends with, and get them to produce Justin's record

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Speaker 1: with me for free. I made the first eight songs

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Speaker 1: for free on SPEC out of my relationships because I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get a budget opened from the major label. There

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Speaker 1: was someone at the label who I was excited to

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Speaker 1: work with, who went to l A and said, don't

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Speaker 1: make me work with the Internet kid. And that's always

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Speaker 1: how it works. It's the things that no one pays attention.

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Speaker 1: So when you played the songs said they say, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is great. No, they didn't get it. They were like,

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Speaker 1: oh this is this has better we thought, but like,

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Speaker 1: what are we gonna do with this kid? There's a

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Speaker 1: longer story and how it happened. In our movie, we

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Speaker 1: definitely made it look like you know, boom boom boom,

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Speaker 1: but it's just great things don't happen that way. Great

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Speaker 1: things like Ariana Grande, she was on Nickelodeon. Why is

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Speaker 1: she not have a record deal with Nickelodeon because they said, yes,

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Speaker 1: you can leave. You know you're not a recording artist.

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Speaker 1: People all the time pass over on the great things.

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Speaker 1: If everybody is paying attention, it wants it. I usually

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Speaker 1: shy away. Do you think that people pigeonhole people and

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Speaker 1: miss opportunities because they can't see anybody any broader than

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Speaker 1: what they initially thought somebody was. Drives me crazy. Drives

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Speaker 1: me crazy when I see people say I saw that

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Speaker 1: three years ago, things evolved. If you saw it three

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Speaker 1: years ago and they actually took your advice, they should

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Speaker 1: come back better than they were before. But if you're

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Speaker 1: not taking the time to look at something because you've

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Speaker 1: already created a narrative in your head, you're missing out

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Speaker 1: an opportunity. And by the way, there are going to

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Speaker 1: be things in my career that I've missed out on.

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Speaker 1: I always leave a meeting saying the same thing. If

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Speaker 1: you leave here and you proved me wrong in the

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Speaker 1: years to come, good on you. I'm rooting for you.

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Speaker 1: I've got a few more questions for Scooter from why

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Speaker 1: you decided to cold call David Geffen how you think

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Speaker 1: about your investments. But before we get to that, let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break. Welcome back to math and magic.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting here today with the genius of marketing, Scooter Braun.

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Speaker 1: You're new, Scooter Braun, You're not the Internet kid anymore.

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Speaker 1: Still feel like that kid? But when you go in now,

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Speaker 1: do people still say I saw that three years ago?

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Speaker 1: Or do they trust? You? Probably see something they don't see. No,

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00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: now they trust. But I also, can I be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I probably was better then. I'm thirty seven,

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Speaker 1: about thirty eight years old in June. This is a

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Speaker 1: youth driven business. I now want the young kids. I

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00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 1: want those kids telling me what's next, because I'd be

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Speaker 1: naive if I could tell you I'm as good of

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Speaker 1: an A and R as I was at twenty seven

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Speaker 1: or twenty five or twenty two. That's bs. So now

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Speaker 1: that I have the power and the trust, I need

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Speaker 1: to share that with young people who are telling me

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Speaker 1: what's next, because I cannot be as good as I

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Speaker 1: used to be. It's just not how it works. When

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Speaker 1: the first people I've heard talk about that, when we

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00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: started MTV. We roll in our twenties and we used

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Speaker 1: to say, no one over the age of thirty has

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Speaker 1: any good ideas, So let's keep hiring that two year

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Speaker 1: old and populate the channel with it. And by the way,

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00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,359
Speaker 1: for many, many years they did that. So talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the creative process. You know, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about finding stuff, not being caught in stereotypes, not letting

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Speaker 1: past narratives cloud your view of the future. How do

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Speaker 1: you think the creative process works? And you know, at

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Speaker 1: the heart of it, sort of what do you think

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Speaker 1: creativity is and how do you spot it? It's a

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Speaker 1: very interesting, hard question to answer. When it comes to music.

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Speaker 1: The artists I work with usually have extraordinary ears because

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Speaker 1: they're artists. What they hear is not what the general

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Speaker 1: public is going to hear. That's why most artists aren't

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00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: great a and rs of their own projects, and they,

426
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 1: you know, need help deciding what they hit is. Most

427
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 1: artists don't even like their hits. My job is to

428
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: be the person with the ordinary ears in the room.

429
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: If I like it, millions of other people should like it,

430
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: because there's nothing extraordinary about me. My job is to

431
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 1: help them understand what the consumer would gravitate towards and

432
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 1: find that middle ground where we're still pushing the needle

433
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 1: and that following the consumer. How big a fight is that.

434
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: I think it's not a fight if you show each

435
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: other mutual respect and you actually earn respect over time.

436
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,239
Speaker 1: If you're just yelling at someone and say you need

437
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 1: to listen to me, I don't think that's a good

438
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: way to do anything. You have to start from a

439
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 1: place of respect and meet in the middle. It's definitely

440
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 1: been an interesting dynamic over the years getting to some

441
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: of these hits. Sometimes if they just walk into the

442
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: door and they got it. Sometimes it's a narrative and

443
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 1: a dance, and sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes they're wrong, but

444
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 1: we create a rapport and we act like family towards

445
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: each other and we get results. The one common thing

446
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: when you talk about creativity in the process, I don't

447
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 1: think there's a substitute for passion. That's the one thing

448
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: I think is consistent. Whether it be an entrepreneur you're

449
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: betting on or an artist you're betting on. There's a

450
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 1: lot of talented people in the world in all walks

451
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: of life. I don't believe talent is enough. Sometimes it's

452
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,479
Speaker 1: enough to get you a moment, but I don't think

453
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: it's enough to ever make you sustain. There's too many

454
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 1: talented people in the world. There's moments where Ariana this

455
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: album she made, it happened quickly, it was magic. She

456
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: just kept writing. All the passion came out boom. There

457
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: are times where artists needs, you know, purpose. With Justin

458
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: it was a year writing, writing, writing, then finally discovering

459
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: the path, but the passion was there in both respects.

460
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 1: So you know, talking about this broad view of creativity

461
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: and business sounds an awful like your mentor David Geff

462
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: extraordinary investor, extraordinary talent manager, record company executive films had

463
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: a good run that guy, Yeah, exactly, real estate name.

464
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: What have you learned from David or did you find

465
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: you were just sort of in sync with David. It's

466
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: not what I learned, it's what I continue to learn.

467
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: And my biggest pinched me moment in my life is

468
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: probably that you even can say that that person is

469
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: my mentor. I read about David when I was nineteen

470
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: years old. He was the inspiration for me to go

471
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: towards this career path. I remember sitting in my dorm

472
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: room freshman year, reading about David going after John Lennon's

473
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: solo career and yelling out loud, go to yoko Ono,

474
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: and then turning the page and seeing David was the

475
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: one person who went to Yokoo, and having this revelation

476
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: that I think, like this, I can do this, and

477
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: David saying, movies take years, TV takes years, finance could

478
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: take years. A song can change your life in a night.

479
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 1: When I was thirty, Jimmy Iven introduced us quickly at

480
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: a restaurant, and then I decided about a month later

481
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: to pick up the phone and cold call his office

482
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,239
Speaker 1: to say thank you to him for the inspiration. And

483
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: he was kind of appreciative, but very like, I gotta

484
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: go onto my next thing. And I was like, oh,

485
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: he's never gonna speak to me again. And when I

486
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: got to the office the next day, his assistant had

487
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: called and said, David wants to have lunch with you.

488
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: Next week's on your schedule. And that first lunch was

489
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: three hours. We've been having lunch and dinner ever since,

490
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: for the last seven years. And when that man loves you,

491
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: he loves you. We have never done business together. We

492
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: have no intention of doing business together. But he is

493
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: passionate about giving me real advice. He's passionate about making me,

494
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: in his mind, better than he was as a person.

495
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: All I wanted my whole life from that point in

496
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: nineteen years old was to have the advice of someone

497
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: like David Geffen and now I have it. And it's

498
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 1: a really great thing when someone lives up to your

499
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: expectation of them, and he has for me. It's interesting

500
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: with David. He's i think, reached out to a lot

501
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: of people and has mentored them, did for me and

502
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: a period of my career when I really needed it,

503
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: and wants nothing in return. Thing do you do that

504
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: with others? Yes? No one's gonna say when they die,

505
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: guess what deal I did? You know they're going to

506
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: look back on the deep conversations, the moments with their family,

507
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: their moments of their friends. What did I do? And

508
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: then you're gone. What's the point of not lifting someone up.

509
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: That's the greatest thing you can do for your legacy.

510
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: You know, when you're gone, you want someone to speak

511
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: highly of you and say they helped me and they

512
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: asked for nothing in return. In addition to mentoring people,

513
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: you've also helped a lot of people. Your chair the

514
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: advisory board of Pencils for Promise, if you are on

515
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: the board of cancer organizations started by your wife, make

516
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: a wish. I think your organizations fulfill more wishes than

517
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: anyone else. You raised about seventy million dollars for Hurricane

518
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: Harvey relief, twenty million for One Love Manchester. What drives

519
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: you and how do you think about that in relation

520
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: to the rest of your life. I just think it's

521
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: so crazy what's happened in my life that the idea

522
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: that you don't share and give back is absurd. What

523
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: is the point of continually pouring water into one glass.

524
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: It's going to overflow and just make a mess. You

525
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: have to pour the water into other glasses before you

526
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: make the mess. The most gratifying parts of my professional

527
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: career have been concerts helping others. I wish those tragedies

528
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: didn't happen, but it was incredibly gratifying for myself, my team,

529
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: and the artist that I work with. To be a

530
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: part of the Children's March, to be a part of

531
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: One Love Manchester, to be a part of the hurricane relief.

532
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: There's fifty percent that you should do publicly, and then

533
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: there's fifty percent you should do privately because theft you

534
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: do publicly, you're gonna get criticized. People say you're doing

535
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: it for the wrong reasons. Who cares what they say.

536
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: They're haters, that's their own bullshit. But you need to

537
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: do publicly to inspire others to do the same. I

538
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: know what I come from, and I know that the

539
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: person in need was just a generation to go for

540
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: my family. My grandparents were Holocaust concentration camp survivors. My

541
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: mom grew up with very little. I want to set

542
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: that example for my kids, make sure they understand that

543
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: that's a legacy they have to keep going forward. So

544
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: let's move on to the future. What's the future of

545
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: the music business as we know it? The record companies, managers, publishers. Look,

546
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: I think the great part of the music business in

547
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: general is that there's never a supply and demand issue.

548
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: People are always gonna want music. The question is how

549
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: do you monetize it and how is it distributed. I

550
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: think things are on the rise because there have been

551
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: gigantic populations outside of this country India, China that have

552
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: never been monetized before. Southeast Asia never been monetized before

553
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: huge populations that love music. I've toured there, they love music,

554
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: and the monetization through streaming is coming for those areas.

555
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: So I think we're about to see a very, very

556
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: big growth for the music business. I think whoever is

557
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: closest to the artists will always play an important roles,

558
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: So managers will play an important role. But I think

559
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: value is going to be an ownership of assets. As

560
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: I move forward, I want to continue doing the service

561
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: business because I enjoy it. I love the artist that

562
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I work with. I love being a part of their journey.

563
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: I went to Ariana's opening night last night, and knowing

564
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: the hard work that she put in and how remarkable

565
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: the show is. I get joy out of seeing her

566
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: happiness and the happiness of her fans. But she and

567
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: I have to go now build access for her, something

568
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: that's sustainable, so she doesn't have to walk on stage

569
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: every single night, and she can take a break and

570
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: start a family some day if she wanted. So Uber, Spotify, Pinterest,

571
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: you are early invested in all and then left left

572
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: and so we look at those businesses. Are those businesses

573
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: that you think are fully priced or do you think

574
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: they have so much growth ahead of them that people

575
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: don't point. I really don't know. I'm not I don't know.

576
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: I know these are great businesses. I know that the

577
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: opportunity for growth is there, that the value in the

578
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: future is there. You talk about a grab or an

579
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: uber or a lift, which are all rides sharing services

580
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: and payment services. The amount of the population that is

581
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: actually using them is still very, very low. So the

582
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: opportunity for how big they can become. Could they become

583
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: trillion dollar business? And that you You really don't know.

584
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: But they're great, great businesses, and I was lucky enough

585
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: to be around them early enough, so you've had as

586
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: good a nose for investments as you've had for music.

587
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's okay, let's say you have.

588
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: I think both of them I got lucky. I think

589
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: you've made your luck. But let's move into what do

590
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: you look at into business passion? So you look at

591
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: a person, not the idea. I'd like to look at

592
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: the idea and understand it. But if you meet someone

593
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: who has a burned the ship's mentality and what do

594
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: I mean by burn the ships? You and I have

595
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: talked about this before. It's you arrive on the shores

596
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: your enemy. The generals say, the only way you go

597
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: home to your families is if you take the ships

598
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: of your enemies. There is no retreat. Burned the ships.

599
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: When you meet an entrepreneur who has a burned the

600
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: ship's mentality, it doesn't matter what they're starting. They will

601
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: pivot and move until they figure it out. And that's

602
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: what you want to see. When someone says I'm a

603
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: serial entrepreneur, run for the hills, all that means is

604
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: they start a lot of businesses. When I met Travis

605
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: from Uber burn the Ships. Funny enough, his competitor John

606
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: Zimmer burned the Ships, Anthony from Burn the Ships. These

607
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: people are relentless. They will not give up, They will

608
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: not be silenced. Like they are going to figure it out.

609
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: You see the same thing an artist. That's what I'm

610
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: talking about, passion and all in all aspects. Ariana. You

611
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: know she's gone through a lot of stuff the last

612
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: couple of years, but I know she is so much

613
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: stronger than even she realizes. I've seen it. She has

614
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: had really hard, hard times in dark moments, but she

615
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: always prevails because she is not a quitter. Justin is

616
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: not a quitter. You know, before purpose we had so

617
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: many people talking ship. But he is not a quitter.

618
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: And I think when you see people with that kind

619
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: of passion, when you see the people with that kind

620
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: of drive, get on board and hold on tight. So

621
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: we'll go back to the future about social Social media

622
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: has changed my life. It has helped me build my career.

623
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: But I also see how people who made social media

624
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: are not allowing their children to participate. There's something to

625
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: be said for that. It isn't evil. It is a

626
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: very good thing. That's something bad can happen in a

627
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: country across the world and we can care because of

628
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: social media. That is incredible thing that's happening. But it

629
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: isn't good when the person right next to you is struggling,

630
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: you can't see it. Everything has to become kind of

631
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: a balance. We have to start with our own relationships,

632
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: stop trying to scale it to how do we change

633
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: lives for millions of people? Start with five people, Start

634
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,959
Speaker 1: with your core people around you that you love, and

635
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: start asking them, are you okay? Let's shut off our phones,

636
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: Let's go for a drink, Let's go for an activity

637
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: of coffee. Just engage with people on a one on

638
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: one and your life will be better and so were

639
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: there's do you shut yourself? Yeah, there are times I

640
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: definitely shut up. I'm getting better about it. I still

641
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: need to work on it. Forecast, you've been around radio,

642
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: You've been a great partner of ours at I heart

643
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: for ever and ever. What do you think of the

644
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: future of audio? And I'm really talking radio, streaming, music services,

645
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: podcast look, trends are trends. People like audio. You know,

646
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: Spotify as announced they're going to spend half a billion

647
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: dollars on podcast this year alone. Asia. Podcasts are huge.

648
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: People still enjoy a conversation, they like driving somewhere and

649
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: being able to listen to something. They're thirsty for conversation,

650
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: They're thirsty for knowledge. So I think the future of

651
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: audio is bright. You've hit all of the stuff that

652
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: you dreamed of. Did you ever dream you'd be here?

653
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: Yes and no. I dreamed of what would that be like?

654
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: But I didn't think when I realized how hard it

655
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: was to make five grand I was like, that doesn't

656
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: seem feasible. And now I realized it's not monetary things

657
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: that have anything to do with what I think about

658
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: a success. My holding companies called Ithaca, and someone asked me, like,

659
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: did you go to Cornell? You go to Ithaca? Like, no,

660
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: I didn't. Ithaca is based on a Greek poem by

661
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: Cafafi called Ithaca. David Geffen showed me this poem, and

662
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: it basically says, You're journeying to the island of Ithaca,

663
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: one of the Greek islands, and along your journey you'll

664
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: only see monsters like Lithogonian cyclops if you let them

665
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: into your heart. I only have negativity if you let

666
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: it in. And along the way you'll meet great philosophers

667
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: and you'll see amazing things. And if you reach Ithaca

668
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 1: and you find her poor, she did not fool you

669
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: because it was always about the journey. And I think

670
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: that's life. I'm on a journey. There's gonna be ups

671
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: and downs. No matter how much success I get. I

672
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: will have nights that I still still cry myself to

673
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: sleep because I'm scared of what tomorrow brings. And it's

674
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: an up and down journey. There's days you're happy and

675
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: there's days you're sad, and that's just what life is.

676
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: And you continue the journey, you have fun. I try

677
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: to do right by others because it doesn't make sense

678
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: to me why this happened to me. But I'm grateful

679
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: for it, and I don't believe the blessings continue unless

680
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: I give blessings. So I gotta keep pouring into other

681
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: glasses so mine doesn't make a mess. We've talked about

682
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: this incredible success you've had. Tell me about the failures

683
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: along the way. There's nothing that's really a failure unless

684
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: you did something malicious and shameful. Otherwise you should have

685
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: no regrets. They're teaching moments I can put on this

686
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: perfect picture of success and confidence and everything else just

687
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: not realistic. It's not real. I still question things all

688
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: the time. I questioned myself. I questioned my own motives.

689
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: I questioned my need to sometimes tell people about my

690
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: success because of how insecure I am in the moment

691
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: that I want them to know what I've done, because

692
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: I might not be enough. Because I always thought vulnerability

693
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: was a bad thing. I didn't understand it was a strength.

694
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: And there were a few people along the way they

695
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: taught me that. One of the people who did that

696
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: for me, who didn't know they did it, was a

697
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: guy who admired from a distance. Dinner relationship. One day,

698
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: I got an email and the purpose said I want

699
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: to come see you, and they came over to my

700
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: house and I just thought, oh, they're coming to see me,

701
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: and they're gonna come talk business and what can we

702
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: do together and everything else. And this person didn't talk

703
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: any business. This person talked to me about their life.

704
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: They asked me questions about my life, and they said,

705
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get to know you. And I

706
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: walked away realizing how much respect I had for that person,

707
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: how much I appreciated them taking the time, and how

708
00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: I need to do more of that in my life.

709
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: And person's name was Bob Pittman. Came to my house,

710
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: sat with me, didn't ask me for any business, and

711
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: you took time to get to know me and took

712
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: hours out of your day for no reason whatsoever, with

713
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: no agenda, to say, I've admired you from a distance

714
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: and I want you to know who I am and

715
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: I want to know you. And you've never asked for

716
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: anything in return. And it was an important lesson in

717
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: my life of how to treat people. So thank you, well,

718
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: you're very nice. Thank you. So let's end with and

719
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: this podcast it's math and Magic, excluding you, who's the

720
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: greatest mathematician, you know, that analytical type who just blows

721
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: your mind. I really admire Howard Marks from Oakstrey Capital.

722
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: I think he's a really really brilliant guy. But he

723
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: also looks at it and all the right ways and

724
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: all the right angles, and I admire so the greatest

725
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: magician David geff Is analytical skills are pretty good too, incredible.

726
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: Thanks Scooter for giving us the time today. Appreciate great

727
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: lessons from somebody who's done it the right way. Thanks.

728
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening

729
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio.

730
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to

731
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which

732
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: is no small feat Nikki Etre for pulling research bill plaques,

733
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: and Michael Azar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch,

734
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and

735
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until

736
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: next time,