1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: This is Kamala S. Shelling and you're listening to Switched 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg n EF podcast. Biofuel producers in the 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: US had been waiting for years to find out how 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: the so called forty five Z tax credits will be calculated. 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: That guidance is finally here, so today we're bringing you 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: another analyst reaction podcast considering what this specific event means 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: for the energy transition. More broadly, with me at the 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: microphone is Jade Patterson, a BNF specialist in renewable fuels. 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: According to the title of his note, Darien Swine win 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: big in new US biofuel guidance, But just how much 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: can they hope to earn and where will all that 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: renewable fuel go. BNF clients can find this as well 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: as other analyst reactions by heading to BNF go on 14 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal or at BNF dot com. If you'd 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: like to learn more about how BNF approaches strategy research 16 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: on the energy transition, including developments in commodity markets, trends 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: across different sectors, and the cross cutting technologies shaping the future. 18 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: You can find more information on BNF dot com. And 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: I'd like to speak with a member of our team 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: about becoming a client email US at Sales dot BNF 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. So let's dive in and discuss 22 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: this new biofuel's ruling with Jade. Welcome, Jane, Thank you 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: so much for being here. 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: Thanks Tom, it's great to be here. 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: So, biofuel producers have been waiting literally years for this 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: final guidance on this forty five Z tax credit. So 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: what exactly does it say. 28 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. So essentially this tax credit 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: right was part of the present Biden's and Flesh Reduction 30 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: Act that was passed in twenty twenty two. So producers 31 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: have been waiting years for this guidance to be passed. 32 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: The Biden administration punted on actually giving out guidance, and 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: so it was left up to the Trump administration to 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: essentially finalize how this would all work out. And really 35 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: there wasn't a ton of changes that were made. It 36 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: was essentially some tweaks that were made in the one 37 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: big beautiful bill that were Treasury kind of confirming and 38 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: you know, essentially giving some examples of how this would work. 39 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: And so one of the big things that we wanted 40 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: to highlight here was essentially Treasury saying we will enable 41 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 2: negative emission scores to be calculated. And also what that 42 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: means is, you know, dairy and swine projects that have 43 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: these negative CI scores and specifically are called out in 44 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: the forty five z as being allowed to have negative 45 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: emissions are going to get a much higher credit value 46 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: compared to other fuel sources for RNG as well as 47 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: other biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. 48 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: There are a lot of terms there that I'm going 49 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: to ask you to break down in a moment, But 50 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: for starters, your note says, and you've just said that 51 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: swine and dairy farmers are really coming out ahead. So 52 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: what actually is it from the swine and dairy farms 53 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: that is going to be turning into a biofuel and 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: what kind of biofuel is it? 55 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll kind of give a quick overview of 56 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: how RANG is typically produced, right. 57 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: So you RNG is renewable natural gas. 58 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: Renewable natural gas, yes, And so what happens is in general, 59 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 2: you have this organic matter, could be you know, biomass 60 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: from a landfill or manure from a dairy farm. When 61 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: that decomposes, it produces methane and ZEO two. Well, what 62 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: renewable natural gas projects do is they strip out that 63 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: SEU two, they capture that methane, and then they use 64 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: that as natural gas, which is essentially we use in 65 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: our homes and you know is all natural gas in 66 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: pipelines today, and so that's what we're using here. And 67 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: so the reason you know, to kind of go to 68 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: your next question on you know, what makes them negative. 69 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 2: Essentially what you're doing, and if you're using renewable natural 70 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: gas for a dairy project, you are avoiding the methane 71 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: emissions that would have been released from that project. And 72 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: that's how you get this negative score. Is this sort 73 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: of counterfactual that says, okay, this methane would have been avoided. 74 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: Now this project is in place, you're avoiding those methane emissions, 75 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: and therefore you can have this negative CI score, which 76 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: can sometimes be upwards of negative three hundred to six 77 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: negative six hundred grams of stew two permegagole, so very 78 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: very low low emissions. 79 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: That's amazing. So instead of saying these are the emissions 80 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: of associated with burning that natural gas, that renewable natural gas, 81 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: it says we're going to be burning some kinds of 82 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: natural gas anyway, and in circumstance A, I'm burning natural gas, 83 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: but this manure is off gasing, so to speak, methane. 84 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: And as circumstance B, so you have both the natural 85 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: gas I'm burning and the methane from the manure. But 86 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: in circumstance B, we're using that. So the manure is 87 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: not emitting methane to the atmosphere. That's why it's negative. 88 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: So the baseline is the assumption that methane will be 89 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: used anyway. 90 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: Exactly, you're not only avoiding the use of fossil fuels, 91 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: you're avoiding the release of a more potent greenhouse gas, 92 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: which methane compared to CEO two is around depending on 93 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: the light the timeframe, around twenty to eight times more 94 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 2: potent of a greenhouse gas than CEO two. 95 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: So then another thing you said was CI, which stands 96 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: for carbon intensity. So how does that relate to these 97 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: negative ambitions and how does it work in the calculation 98 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: for this tax credit? 99 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in carbon intensity score is essentially another term 100 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: used for the life cycle emissions, and so this is 101 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: really important when calculating the tax credit value. And that's 102 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: what we've been focused on this whole process is how 103 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: does this tax good value get calculated. The formula is 104 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: actually fairly simple. You have two functions. You have a 105 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: base rate, which if you prevailing wages are met, is 106 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: one dollar, and then you also have this emissions factor. 107 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: And the emissions factor is essentially, without getting too complicate 108 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 2: with the math, is essentially calculating what's your percent reduction. 109 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 2: So just for example, if you have let's say a 110 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: fifty percent reduction in your emissions and you know, just 111 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: ball parking here, you would get about fifty cents per 112 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: gallon for your fuel. And so what happens though with 113 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: these negative CI scores in this formula. The way it works, 114 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: and you can go and look it up, is essentially, 115 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: if you have a negative CI value, your emissions factor 116 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: can be greater than one. And so as you can imagine, 117 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: as your emission score goes from you know, say one, 118 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: to like seven, you know, you're multiplying that, you know, 119 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: seven times the base rate of one. So now you're 120 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: getting seven dollars per gallon. And so that's why these 121 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: negative emissions are so important for these projects and why 122 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: a lot of people were wondering how this was going 123 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: to work, and luckily Treasury gave some examples in their 124 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: guidance on how that would actually be calculated. And again 125 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: this is only for manure based projects. It doesn't qualify 126 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 2: for other types of fuels that might have a negative 127 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: CI score as well. 128 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: So you have this amazing chart in your REACT showing 129 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: what producers could hope to get for different types of RNG, 130 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: and for manure from dairy farms and pig farms, it's 131 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: off the chart high. As you just said, you know, 132 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: a mean value of about seven dollars. For the other 133 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: things you looked at, so that's landfill waste, wastewater treatment, 134 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: and then other forms of organic waste, it's much lower. 135 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: We're talking seventy cents, so a factor of ten there. 136 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: Why is the manure so much higher? 137 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, So a lot of that really comes back to 138 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: again this baseline assumption on what's going on with the methane, 139 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: and so with manure projects, you're assuming that the methane 140 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: would not be captured otherwise, and so you're getting that 141 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: methane avoidance which gets you that really low CI. And 142 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: then with wastewater treatment plants, landfills, those are a lot 143 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: of the their main sources for producing RNG. The baseline 144 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: assumption there is that methane was already being captured, and 145 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: so they don't get that additional credit for capturing that 146 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: methane because it's assumed that would already happen, and so 147 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: they're essentially in their CI score, they're just displicing fossil 148 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: fuels and getting credit for that. And so most of them, 149 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: what that means is they can only really go down 150 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: to zero as their CI score. 151 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: Right, So, whereas wastewater treatment is likely contained, a cow 152 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: farm may not be exactly. Let's talk about where all 153 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: this renewable natural gas is going. You mentioned in your 154 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: react that most RNG these days is going into the 155 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: road transport sector, but that sector is already pretty saturated. 156 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: So where is this manure based RNG going to go? 157 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 2: That's a great question. So essentially what's likely going to 158 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: happen is because the market is already saturated, producers are 159 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 2: going to have to incentivize fleets or naturalized vehicle consumers 160 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: to buy their gas. And so the way they can 161 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: do that is they can actually share the credit incentives 162 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: with those off takers, and so they're going to have 163 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: to sweeten that deal. And because the way these incentives 164 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: are structured, you have the forty five ze, you also 165 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: have other programs like the California LCAP BEST program which 166 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: adds additional credit value. Because these all stack and that. 167 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: Stands for low grub and fuel standard, a low covered 168 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: fuel standard, that's right. 169 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: And so what will happen is because these dairy and 170 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: newer producers will have such a much higher credit value, 171 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: they can incentivize these off takers to buy their gas 172 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: instead of someone else's. We've already seen this happen in 173 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: California's program, where essentially what happened is Darry has gone 174 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: in and really cannibalized the usage of landfills, and so 175 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: those landfill rg projects are going to have to find 176 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: a different home, and so they'll likely go to other markets, 177 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 2: whether it's gas utilities or maybe feeling data centers or 178 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: going into shipping field. There's lots of other ways they 179 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: can go. But likely Darry is going to keep focusing 180 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: it on the road transport, whether the incentives are the highest. 181 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was actually my next question. Where is 182 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: that displaced RNG that's been going into cars and trucks 183 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: and bands up to this point, Where is that going. 184 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of remains to be seen because you know, 185 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: like I said, most of the RG today, i'd say 186 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 2: eighty eighty percent or more is going into the road 187 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: transport sector because of those high incentive values. The other markets, 188 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 2: whether it be electricity generation or heating for homes, they 189 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: don't have those same incentive programs, and you really do 190 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 2: need those because you know, when we think about producing 191 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: rhneo natural gas, it's much more expensive than fossil natural 192 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: gas in the order of let's say, you know, three 193 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: to five times more expensive at minimum, and so they 194 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: really need those incentives in order to make it profitable. 195 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 2: And so it's really going to be a question of 196 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: what other policy programs they can go into. Shipping is 197 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: actually one of the big ones we have, you know, 198 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 2: potentially big shipping mandates coming in for International Maritime Organization IMO. 199 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 2: You also have Refiel EU in Europe, and so some 200 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: of those, you know, those RNG could be converted into 201 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 2: shipping fuels like biomethodol or bio LNG, and so we'll 202 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: kind of have to see how that shakes out. 203 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: And is RNG a drop in fuel so chemically identical 204 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: to standard methane and therefore can be used in any 205 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: usual methane situation. 206 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: That's correct, Kamala. It is one hundred percent interchangeable with 207 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 2: traditional fossil gas. So anywhere you're using like natural gas today, 208 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: whether it be an LNG or to make methodol, you 209 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: can drop in RNG and it's no change in your process. 210 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: And finally, this tax credit expires in just a few 211 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: years December thirty first, twenty twenty nine. So what happens 212 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: after that? Do farmer suddenly stop making manure based RNG? 213 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: Is it a situation of they have built it, They've come, 214 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: the infrastructure is in place, this is going great, we 215 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: keep going forward. What do you think is going to 216 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: happen next? 217 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's hard to speculate on where we're 218 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 2: going to be politically in the next four to five years. 219 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: I think the benefit for biofuels is they tend to 220 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: have pretty good bipartisan support right from both the left 221 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 2: and the right. Particularly you're reducing emissions on the most part, 222 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: which gets support from from the more liberal side, and 223 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: then you know a lot of biofuels come from agriculture, 224 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: which is support the conservative side, and so you know 225 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: what that means is where we're likely going to see 226 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: more discontinued support. How valuable that could be and how 227 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: much that would be is remains to be seen. You know, 228 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: could we have changes to this tax credit value? You know, 229 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 2: our people are going to come in and say, hey, 230 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: you're getting too much value for RNG. You know, we 231 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: want to take that down. You know, anything is possible. 232 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: So it's hard to speculate on that, but I would 233 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 2: say that you know, by and large, biophields tend to 234 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: have really good mypartisan support. So this tax credit could 235 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: get extended in future years like its predecessor, what was 236 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 2: called the bio desomp Blender's tax credit, and so we'll 237 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 2: probably see that, you know, happen in later years. 238 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Jaden, it has been fantastic 239 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: to talk to you. 240 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 2: Thanks. 241 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: Today's episode of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray 242 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: with production assistants from Kamalas Shelling. 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