1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening un podcast. 3 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: nor where you stand with on x. Okay, we're joined 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: by Lieutenant John Norris like Chuck Norris like Chuck Norris. 8 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: You got it. It's a different spelling, right, and r 9 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: e s a little different author of Hidden War um 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: reading that book, man. I was reading the book over 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: the weekend. People are gonna figure out what the book 12 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: is box when we're talking about a bunch, but it's 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: about like the Hidden War is is the war against 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: illegal pot growers, public lands and otherwise just around reading it, 15 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: I had like a hundred questions come up, and we'll 16 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: get I want to get into some background on you 17 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: and stuff. But the main question I think that needs 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: to be dispassed right away is like you're retired now 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: game warden, lieutenant, but you're a game warden. You came 20 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: out of like bust of people for not having their 21 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: fishing license, having too many uh, trout the old stringer. 22 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: How in the world did it become your guy's responsibility 23 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: to put to like take on like cartel backed illegal growers. 24 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: I mean, like, why is that not the cops? Yeah, 25 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: you know, Steve, that is a great question, and that 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: is the question that everyone started ask when we got 27 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: into this, and you know, like all of us at 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: the table here in the studio, I grew up loving 29 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: to hunt fish. The outdoors were kind of the spiritual 30 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: cornerstone where I was at. So when I met a 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: game warden, you know, for the first time in college, 32 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, you know you actually get paid to 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: do this. You know, you're in your patrol truck, You're 34 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: thirteen miles in the back country checking me and my 35 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: hiking partner on a lake, and this is fantastic. And 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: all you're doing is you're protecting wildlife. But you're doing 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: as a solo, solo cop. Remember, it was funny reading 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: near bio information that when you grew up hunting fishing, 39 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: but we're kind of like not really aware that there 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: were game wardens. The craziest thing, Yeah, so I I 41 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: it was it was so random that I never met 42 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: a game ward and growing up because I passed hunter 43 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: safety at nine years old. My dad brought me into 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: Waterfall first. Then it was big game. You know, four 45 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: or five generations of conservationists from both Montana, California and 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: everywhere in between. And unlike all my colleagues in the 47 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: academy when I get there, when I'm like twenty years old, 48 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: they've been you know, seeing game warden since their first 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: deer camp at twelve years old, and they've been you know, 50 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: going that path. Well, I certainly would have started much 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: earlier and got a whole different direction towards me in 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: a conservation officer had I met one. That was the 53 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: first time I met one. I was actually in an 54 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: engineering program at Santos State University and the Silicon Valley 55 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: and looking at the r OTC Army Special Forces program. 56 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: And then I'm on a winter break in the first 57 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: semester engineering school and I'm camped out thirteen miles into 58 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: the back country with my brother outlaw, my Baja racing partner. 59 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: We got a pack horse, we don't have all the 60 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: right gear. We're kind of new to it, you know, 61 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: and we're soaked. We hiked all night to get to 62 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: this lake. So we had an illegal fire in the park. 63 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 1: We knew it was illegal, but we had a dryer 64 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: stuff out. We're pretty wet and keep on with this 65 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: five day hike, and at that time of year, no 66 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: one's in the back country. This is a Henry Co 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: State Park, a hundred five thousand acres of pristine country, 68 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: second largest state park in California and all ours. So 69 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: we were like, yeah, we're in the wide open, you know, 70 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: like later on where our big hunts would go. And 71 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: we see this guy coming down on the four by four. 72 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: Thought he was a park ranger. Turns out he was 73 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: a game ward and thinking we were poaching blacktail deer 74 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: deep rhet because the backtail genetics in that park were epic. 75 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking Boot and Crockett things that just 76 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: light us up, right. And so he comes down, finds 77 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: out we're just dumb kids doing a backpack. We're not hunting. 78 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: And I've been to Zeer for two and a half 79 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: hours on that lake and my eyes just blew up 80 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: and my head started spinning. And when he left, my 81 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: partner jail. So you questioned him. I questioned him, and 82 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: he's like, I really regret stopping and talking to these 83 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: dumb kids this long and I was done. I went 84 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: back as soon as we got out of the woods, 85 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: and I changed my major criminal justice in biology and 86 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: learned what a game ward actually did. I said, that's 87 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to do. So I believe that was 88 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: like the heavens parted, you know, I mean, non cliche, 89 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: but seriously it was. It was that random. Had I 90 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: not met him, I would have been on a catch. 91 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: His name I did, Oh yeah, yeah, it was Henry Coletto. 92 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: He was a county game ward, not a state game work. 93 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: But he later was one of the guys I patrolled 94 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: with when I got back home many years later. You 95 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: want to you want to run it into it? We 96 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: worked together. It was it was fantastic. So that's how 97 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: that went. So but keep going, yeah, like like it 98 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. So when 99 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: I got the job, that's what I wanted to do. 100 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: I wanted a bust guys, spotlight and dear taking too 101 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: many fish, you know. I wanted to do hunter education 102 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: and train kids. I love teaching, did that early on 103 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: in my career, developed into teaching super early, did all 104 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: that stuff. That's why I envisioned game wardens should do. 105 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: That was the traditional role. And then fast forward to 106 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: I started Riverside County way down in southern California and 107 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: wanted to get back home to the Silicon Valley. I 108 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: did that in about and did all the traditional stuff 109 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: in my hometown area back in co where I met 110 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: that game warden patrolled there. Everything was great. And then 111 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: in two thousand four, um I stumbled onto with a 112 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: tip from a high school buddy of mine that was 113 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: now in his master's thesis at San Jose State in 114 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: fisheries biology, and he was doing a three year study 115 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: up a real pristine channel at two creeks where they're 116 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: steelhead trout, re legged yellow legged frog, real pristine, you know, 117 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: threatening dangerous species. And he hit me up one day 118 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: in late spring, right after trout opening. He said, Hey, John, 119 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: this is weird. One of my transset creeks is completely 120 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: bone dry. I've got no kid, dead fish, dead frogs. 121 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: But I'm seeing a bunch of like plastic and debris 122 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: and stuff down at the bottom of the head waters 123 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: and something's not right. And keep in mind, guys, these 124 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: are the headwaters of Coyote Creek. What's one of the 125 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: last viable steelhead migration trout streams in the Silicon Valley 126 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: where they went Pacific Ocean all the way up and 127 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: came to spawn. I mean, these fish were so threatened 128 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: at the time. We only had a couple of thousand 129 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: of them left in that part of California. They were 130 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: like valued at like thirty thou dollars of fish by 131 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: the FETs, so it was pretty sensitive. So I grabbed 132 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: grabbed my buddy. I said, okay, jump in the truck. 133 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: I'll be with you early tomorrow. Let's go up to 134 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: the drop off. I want to drop into the canyon 135 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: and see what it is. And that whole thing to 136 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: me was, okay, there's got to be a farmer diverting 137 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: for you know, agriculture, because it was you know, kind 138 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: of not a real wet winner, or you know, maybe 139 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: it's someone diverting a stream with development, which is what 140 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: we normally see what we call stream bet alteration violations 141 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: that we did a lot of in California. So that 142 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: was always your groove, that was part of your mandate 143 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: to look at that kind of stuff. Absolutely. Yeah, it 144 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: wasn't just hunting and fishing enforcement and you know, the 145 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: poaching versus the legitimate conservationist hunter doing it right like 146 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: all of us. It was. Environmental damage is to water pollution, 147 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: development getting into creeks, big housing projects, commercial developments. You 148 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: guys are involved, you guys are not involved in h 149 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: just general environmental and fractions would be like considered under 150 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: your enforcement right. And the bigger, the bigger things when 151 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: it comes to stream alteration, when it's really heavy impacted 152 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: from developments, it gets into you know, heavy misdemeanors, felonies, 153 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: civil finds, very complex environmental investigations that people didn't realize 154 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: Game Morgans did at the time. So we snow go 155 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: down to this canyon and we go and find this 156 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: water hose basically diverting what was left of that creek 157 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: and that's why it was dry three miles below. So 158 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: I grabbed my buddy, put him behind me. He's an 159 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: unarmed biologist and civilian like diverted like how like Basically 160 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: they dam up the creek and this is a small tributary. 161 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: This is the headwaters of with Steel that channel, so 162 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: they damn it up. They put a water hose in it, 163 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: and they're piping the water somewhere and it was kind 164 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: of weird because it was like a one inch black 165 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: polly pipe, which we later learned is the cartel's main 166 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: method what they used to arrogate, you know, this illegal, 167 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: legitimate poison cannabis. And so I put them behind me 168 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: my assault rifle. We have no cell coverage, We're deep 169 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: in the canyon, no radio coverage. We're hiking down this canyon, 170 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you know, we go two 171 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: hundred yards down the creek and there's the start of 172 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: what was a seven thousand you know plant marijuana plant 173 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: cartel grow that had been in play for probably five 174 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: six years. No one had any clue what was going 175 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: on there. That's why that's you know, I said, I'm 176 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: like boiling over with questions. Keep in mind, you gotta 177 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: walk me through, Like how is that possible? That's what 178 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: I was asking myself, you know. And I still to 179 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: this day, after doing five hundred plus of these missions 180 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: and spend the last fifteen years of my career dedicated 181 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: to the kind of a special operations side of what 182 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: it took to catch these guys and deal with them safely. 183 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: It's baffling to think that, and keep in mind, these 184 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: guys doing it you know, I mean, this isn't you know, 185 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: a legitimate enterprise. These are cartel gunmen. They're classified as 186 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: to portable felons, you know, um south of the border. 187 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: They're on watch list internationally because they've got his streams 188 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: of narcotics, trafficking, murder, uh you know, environmental destruction, human trafficking, assault, 189 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: you name it. And those are some of their best 190 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: growers in their heavily arms. So these guys have already 191 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: been imported here illegally, smuggled across the border and they've embedded. 192 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: You've found they they've smuggled across the border to do 193 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: this job. Yeah, yeah, basically exactly exactly. And we as 194 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: we get further into it and hidden more really goes 195 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: into what we learned later on since my first book, 196 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: Warren in the Woods, of how easy it is from 197 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: to get here, how you know, involved business wise, the 198 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: infrastructure of the cartel organizations are and how many are 199 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: really you know, spread out through not only California, the 200 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: epicenter of the weed part of what they do, but 201 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: the method and phetamine production nationally, human trafficking, uh, you know, 202 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: the synthetic heroine fent and all that's poisoning a lot 203 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: of people and killing them. There's certainly environmental damages to 204 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: our public lands and some of those crimes, but the 205 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: poison cannabis thing is what is just devastating, and well 206 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: we get more into that, but yeah, so when but 207 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: back to this, So you guys come down and you 208 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: say it's seven thousand plants, seven thousand plants kind of 209 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: public to I want to know why it's poison cannabis. 210 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: It's we're gonna talk, okay that and I think, yeah, 211 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: well no, no, but but yeah, let's get through that 212 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: right away, because yeah, why why are you're saying because 213 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: you're not using it like a euphemism. It's not a 214 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: euphemism at all. But what I want to that I 215 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: need to get this though, Yeah, how many acres is 216 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: seven thousand plants? They were spread out over probably four 217 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: or five acres on that particular grow. Because if it's not, 218 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: how are the people not every couple of days wandering 219 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: through here? That's a super good question because some of 220 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: what they do is they're on a lot of public 221 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: land areas, but more remote tracks, like they're going right 222 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: into deep canyons that most people don't go into in 223 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: a park that are just hiking recreationally, but you know 224 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: who's running into them, Guys like you and me, all 225 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: of us here that are going for that really pristine 226 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: trout stream. We're doing a deep back country you know, 227 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: deer hunt, and we're gonna go to a water hole 228 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: and we're gonna backtrack tracks and we're gonna look for drops, 229 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: you know, offseason all that stuff. And so either no 230 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: one finds them, because it's an area of land that 231 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: might not be easily accessible. Only the hardcorees get there, 232 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: and so it's anglers and hunters that find it, or 233 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: it's a guy like my partner that was doing a 234 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: bio study. He was a hunter himself and just happened 235 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: to be in that canyon all the time, and they 236 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: were kind of keeping out the public for this study area. 237 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: So he was like he was a facilitating the secret 238 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: and like unintentional, unintentional, and he was in there. This 239 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: was like the third year of a five year study 240 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: he was doing for this thesis, and you know, I 241 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: love the critters and was freaked out. So none of 242 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: us had any idea when we walked into and they 243 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: feel it had been there, had been hiding there how 244 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: long at least five years. And I'll get into a 245 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: little more in the story as to why we knew that. 246 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: And when we go down the canyon and we see 247 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: the plan and don't forget your honest question. Yeah we're 248 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: gonna get yeah, the poison thing, and we see I 249 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: should go back to that because there's so many issues. 250 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: Just get fired up. Now we're getting back, we're getting 251 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: backed up. All right, we'll dig out. I love it 252 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: when I talked poison cannabis. I got to make a 253 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: very clear distinction between the legitimate cannabis industry that's doing 254 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: you know, they're growing dispensary quality marijuana that's legally used 255 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: by recreational users where it's allowed, like California's a regulated 256 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: state now where I just retired from, and Montana's a 257 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: regulated state where we're all from here, my our home 258 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: state of Michigan, home state of Michigan. There go Steve, right, 259 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: and so you know, and and actually what we're going 260 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: to get into and I go into this at the 261 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: very end of Hidden More, especially chapter ten, when I 262 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: talk about moving forward with regulation and what are the 263 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: issues on things like public land, environmental crimes. But we 264 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: actually have the legitimate cannabis industry making pure product, calling 265 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: us their Earth Warriors, my tactical unit called Earth Warriors. 266 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of not the term I would normally think 267 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: of from a special operations background, running with retired seals 268 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: on my team and swat guys and snipers and we're 269 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: all hunters like myself. But they like what we're doing, 270 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, and and we like to support their given us. 271 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: And where it was used to be handcuffs, they've turned 272 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: to handshakes with the legitimate side of the industry that's 273 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: really trying to do it right. And there are environmental 274 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: stewards and we found a percentage of growers all over 275 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: California that are as deeply environmentally protective as we are. 276 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: Know they protect their water, they can serve it. So 277 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: they're saying they don't put out as you'll explain in 278 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: Discriminate Wildlife poisons. Yeah, and booby traps book full of 279 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: pictures of like dead mountain lions and bears and littered 280 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: around these growth sites from them like poisoning up poisoning 281 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: wildlife because I imagine it gets into the crops. Oh, 282 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: it totally does. And when I go into poison cannabis. 283 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying, these band toxics that these 284 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: cartel guys bring across the border. She can't get it 285 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: in America anymore. It was banned by the e p 286 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: A fifteen years ago because so toxic and the products 287 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: called carbo furan um. There's all kinds of derivative trade 288 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: names meta faus, q fur and furdan. But there's all 289 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: these different derivatives and they have to get it in 290 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: Mexico because in third world countries don't have the environmental 291 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: regulations we do. It's still produced. It was designed as 292 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: an insecticide rodentious side, I say, kill anything aside um 293 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: to be deluded into like five thousand gallons of water 294 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: with one twelve ounce container. It's kind of crystalline. And 295 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: even that was considered so toxic and harmful if it 296 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: was put on crops to keep animals and insects and 297 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: every off by the e p A, they banned it. 298 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: What the cartel growers do, guys, is they diluted with 299 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: three to five gallons at the most. So this stuff 300 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: to tea spoons, no joke. A black, big three pound 301 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: black bear comes into a grow site, gets to a plant, 302 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: and these guys have it all over the bud, all 303 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: over the flour, all over on the soil around the plants, 304 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: and in the waterways directly, and they'll put it out 305 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: in tunicans like little traps for animals because they don't 306 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: want anything touching that potentially four thousand dollar black market 307 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: profit plant. So a black bear ingested, and the picture 308 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: in my book of that big black bear, Steve was 309 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: exactly that went in licked up a couple of drops 310 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: of this that they put in a tunican is like 311 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: a little perimeter defense. And she died like a couple 312 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: of minutes later, and just keeled over and she was done. 313 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: And then her fifty pound cub that also was with her, 314 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: she was she had a single baby and justested the 315 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: same poison, didn't die as quickly. And the other picture 316 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: that's superimposed in that color section of the book is 317 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: the cub up in the view of the tree, got 318 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: scared when above mama and I, you know, strung out 319 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: about ten feet above her mother, a little fit kipoun cub. 320 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: And you know, I kind of say, it doesn't matter 321 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: where you sit on the conservation. Preservation, hunt, don't hunt 322 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: animal rights. You know where we sit opposite of that. 323 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to see an animal die that way. So 324 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: it's just horrendous. No animals should ever be poisoned that way. 325 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: It's just it's disgusting. And so, you know, I mean 326 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: when I present on this and I talk about this, 327 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: whether it's a law enforcement group, of kids, group of 328 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: political group, a good conservation group like we all here 329 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: are here, you know, are going to animal rights group, 330 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: talk to humane society, the Mountain Lion Society. I've been 331 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: all over those traditionally left groups societies and they see 332 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: that and they go, we need to support your efforts. 333 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: You know, let's forget where we sit on this spectrum. 334 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: Let's unify. Let's fund this to get the clean up 335 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: done that we need to do. Make sure you guys 336 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: are doing this thing safe because the violence we've been 337 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: involved in, the gunfights, my partner almost getting shot and 338 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: killed in the Silicon Valley. We got some stuff we 339 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: could share that's crazy to see how violent these guys are. 340 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: And not only to tactically trained, specialized law enforcement team 341 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: like we developed into, but what if you were you know, 342 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: you were on a private, you know, public hunt doing 343 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: a d I y style and you run across this, 344 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, most hunters are equipped to deal 345 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: with it and get out safely. But we've been up 346 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: against some pretty crazy guys and so that's the poison 347 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: cannabis we're dealing with. And the problem with that stuff. 348 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: What's so nasty about it is this issue doesn't get out, 349 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, really far enough. I mean I wrote the 350 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: first book on the topic back in two thousand and ten. 351 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: We did three years of reality TV with Wild Justice, 352 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: the first game ward in reality TV on on National Geographic, 353 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: which was good because it showed you what game wardens do, 354 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: the diversity of what we do. We're not just checking 355 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: fishing licenses, you know, and closing the gate and locking, 356 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, locking up a park at night. We're doing 357 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: some you know, legitimate, diverse law enforcement stuff. But it 358 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: exposes issue a little bit. So we've been talking about 359 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: it for ten years. It's been on worldwide television, it's 360 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: been in one book. Now Hidden More comes out and 361 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm still shocked by how many people we'll get the 362 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: new book. We launched an n r A annual with 363 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: all Over North being a primary endorser of it, and 364 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: all these A hunter himself. I didn't know that, and 365 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: after he read and endorsed it, he told me, he goes, 366 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: I had no idea. You know, I spent my entire 367 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: military career fighting foreign drug problems from infiltrating our domestic lands. 368 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: And we got a team of game wardens and other 369 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: law enforcement guys, and especially you guys had to get 370 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: specialized a game wards to fight this and protect our 371 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 1: wildlife too, and being a hunter. And he wasn't even 372 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: fully aware. So when you look at that aspect of it, 373 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: um the growers are still insulated, not only in California 374 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: but in the rest of America, and not enough people 375 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: know about this. So the poison cannabis is going all 376 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: over the Midwest on the black market, the Eastern Seaboard, 377 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: um all over the country and being sold on the 378 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: black markets, being slowed as a pure product. It's getting 379 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: into that black market that isn't regulated versus a legitimate dispensary. 380 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: That was that was one of the things I wanted 381 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: to ask about, and we might aso try to dispatch 382 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: with that early on. We're all turkey hunt in California, 383 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: not on public man but on private land front of 384 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: mine's place, and I was telling her and we noticed 385 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: the piping all over the damn place you were on one. Yeah, well, 386 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: because they have her. My friend, a woman I went 387 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 1: to graduate school with. Her family had her dad had 388 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: run cattle and he was a large animal vat and 389 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: he started he got older and kind of got away 390 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: from running cattle, and so some of their properties went 391 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: like relatively unvisited and no one was actually work in 392 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 1: the land, and um, so there wasn't a constant presence 393 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: out there. And I brought up to her like you 394 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: see this pipe in weird places, and she was always as, 395 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: it's just people to sneak in to grow. And at 396 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: this time, uh weed was already legal in California. So 397 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: it raised the question, why if if you legalize weed 398 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: in the state, why is there still an incentive Like 399 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: how did it even come up? The people are still 400 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: secretly growing and why why would they need to grow 401 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: on public land? Why don't they like buy property and 402 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: just grow eat. Yeah, and then why you need to 403 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: sneak in somewhere and do it on the slot it's 404 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: it gets down. That's a that's a really good question. 405 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: And everybody thought that when we regulated in California, and Prop. 406 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: Sixty fourth recreational did all these medical laws. Other states 407 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: did it too. That Okay, that's going to stop the 408 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: black market. Now it's legal. It's no big deal. And 409 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: it was like a really common argument. It's the main 410 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: argument here for legalizing drugs. It totally is brother. And 411 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: here's the problem the backlash. What people don't realize when 412 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: you dig deeper into it is once you regulate, there's inspections, 413 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: there's permits you've gotta get, there's fees to that. You're 414 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: now on big Brother's radar. Right, you're on the governmental radar. 415 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: So you're gonna be inspected. You've gotta keep your private 416 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: land grow site open to inspection. Your dispensaries are open 417 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: to inspection. Use e P A band poison, Yeah, I 418 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: can't do that. Can't use I mean, the the purification 419 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: standards on cannabis legitimately now. And I'm gonna take California 420 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: as an example because I just came from that state 421 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: and was part of seeing regulation and you know, kind 422 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: of trying to preach the message of hey, guys, if 423 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna regulate, great, that's the choice of the voters. 424 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: That's how the legislature is gonna go regardless of what 425 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: my thoughts are in at that's what we're gonna do. 426 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: Let's just do it right. Let's make sure we break 427 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: the back of the black market and don't facilitate more 428 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: black market. Well in California is an example. When they 429 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: legitimized recreational marijuana and then all the new medical laws 430 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: started to come in. They took public land trespass growing, 431 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: which is cartels from Mexico, from a felony to a misdemeanor. 432 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: And if you were now check this out guys too, 433 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: on this fact, if you're a juvenile, and a lot 434 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: of these guys are juveniles because they're coming up generationally 435 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: to be trained. You know, they're under eighteen, but they're 436 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: formidable they're growing. Now, that's a misdemeanor to an infraction 437 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,959 Speaker 1: for these young growers that are with You know a 438 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: guy that's a grow boss, we call him and you 439 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: know he's he's vetted. And these are guys that you know, 440 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: they're not just random guys coming up trying to make 441 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: a quick buck because of the living conditions in Mexico. 442 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: These guys are vetted grow bosses that got their vettedness 443 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: by doing this successfully diverting water, hiding it from the 444 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: federal allies, being successful at getting you know, big harvest 445 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: out and not getting busted. Then they get brought up 446 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: here because they're basically vetted journeyman that know what they're 447 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: doing and they're good a lot of them. You read 448 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: the stories in the book and see some of the 449 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: pictures of the booby traps and the camouflage that you 450 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: know the same the like the pungee stick traps. Isn't 451 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: that crazy? Yeah? Sold one where we just where is 452 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: it going? Are people and other people in California they're 453 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: going to a dispensary and they're thinking they're buying like healthy, 454 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: high quality, clean whatever, regulated inspected weed, and they're buying 455 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: stuff that's laced with wildlife poisons or going to other 456 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: states all together. It's sometimes being just like you said, Stevens, 457 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: sometimes being utilized into dispensaries, you know, and and and 458 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: masked in that. Fortunately not in super large quantities that 459 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: we've seen out there but in California, but a majority 460 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: of it just goes back east and gets into the 461 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: black market Middle America, illegal states, illegal states, Middle America 462 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: where kid is have no access medical patients seaboard states 463 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: like Chicago, New York. It's going everywhere, and I mean 464 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: we produce you know where I came from in California 465 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: is eight of the entire nation's black market marijuana resent 466 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: in private land or this public land thing. But the 467 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: thing that's also interesting is even though Weed is the 468 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: one of only six Mediterranean climates on the globe, so 469 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: it's great growing. That's why it's the Weed state. And 470 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: we February and almost December outdoors if we have a 471 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: mile winner um. All those other states that are still 472 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: involved in it, that still have a cartel presence just 473 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: for the cannabis side of what they do is still 474 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: like twenty seven states where it's to a lesser extent 475 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: being grown on public lands by the cartels, but definitely 476 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: not the magnitude that we saw in California. So yeah, 477 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: I mean the biggest thing is is if you're gonna 478 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: if your cannabis user, be careful. You know, you don't 479 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: want to be one ingesting toxic poisons that eventually will 480 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: kill you or the people that you're associated with. But 481 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: also I don't think anybody that's a legitimate cannabis user 482 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: wants to be complicit in buy into that black market, 483 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: especially from you know, a foreign presence. It's you know, 484 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: not regulated, not supposed to be here with the fast. 485 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't think people think about it too much, don't 486 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: they don't. I don't think I wait to say something 487 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: only people think about that because I don't think people 488 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: that buy um, people that are buying like hard drugs 489 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: out of Central and South America, I don't think that 490 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: they're really cognizant of the blood bath that they fuel. 491 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: They're not. They're not. If you told them, they're not 492 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: going to care. You can take it outside of drugs too, 493 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: I mean, take milk, for example. Do people really think 494 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: about where that comes from? Point people like? But but 495 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: I don't think the dairy farmers are going down, moaning 496 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: each other down and killing hundreds of thousand, tens of 497 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 1: thousands of innocent individuals. Not not at all. But there 498 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: could be environmental damage, there could be others, you know, 499 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: different man to buy definitely have to buy hard drugs 500 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: out of Central and South America. You are, uh. My 501 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: point is that people are very easy to sort of 502 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: gloss over. No I gloss all overall. I'm I'm not 503 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: passing judgment. I clossed over all kinds doing real quick. 504 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: Why uh, why grow in California instead of just going 505 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: south of the border and bringing it. That's a good question, 506 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: that's a great question. And basically they're kind of doing both. 507 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: They're still bringing it from across the border, and they're 508 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: doing it smuggling, you know, across the border and getting 509 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: across fairly easily, whether it's tunnels or however they're getting 510 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: across and also running what they call panga boats one 511 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: way boats that go around the Mazelon Point and come 512 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: in and deposit six thousand three to talks about that too. Yeah, 513 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: we got into pangas and it was something you know, 514 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: being a being a more of a you know, an 515 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: inner border kind of woodsy, kind of not on the 516 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: water that much, you know, domestic unit kind of running 517 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: all over. We did a lot of you know, ocean stuff. 518 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: We just had to because the last ten years we've 519 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: been seeing more and more of these panga boats hitting 520 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: the shoreline. And you know, last we heard as we 521 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: were working with you know, different different federal allies and 522 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: the Homeland Security and Coastguard, you're getting sometimes twin of 523 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: these boats a month, and we might catch two or 524 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: three of them, so and then they're making you know 525 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: that all that poison weed is coming in from off 526 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: shore trucks and you know runners are there to pick 527 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: it up. The distribution center is very highly structured, good 528 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: corporate model. They have distribution centers, stash houses, and it's 529 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: it's gone in minutes to be distributed all over the country. 530 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: And I mean, you know you're not only getting that, 531 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: you're getting some meth imported. And then you get the 532 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: human trafficking thing, because if you can get that weed 533 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: in off the coast, you can bring in a threat. 534 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: You know, you can bring in somebody off this coastline 535 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: from anywhere. So there's been the domestic you know that 536 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: the extreme terrorist groups linked to the cartels as potential 537 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: threats and evidence of that, and that gets into a 538 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: whole another level of public safety, not just poison weed 539 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: coming in, which is still horrible. So, yeah, we got 540 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: to coming in from Mexico, but if they can produce 541 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: it here, it's that much less of a burden and 542 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: cost than having to try to pay what it's going 543 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: to take to get these guys across safely knowing they're 544 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: probably getting a few of them are going to get caught, right, 545 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: and then then they're gonna lose that load. Whereas that 546 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: you know, if they're embedded here and they're really good growers, 547 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: those guys are embedded for generations and until they get caught, 548 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: they might go ten, eleven, twelve years. We've cut some 549 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: guys that have been at it for over a decade 550 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: and embedded in you know, Palo Alto, Fresno, big city 551 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: populace centers completely here, illegally fake I d s, not citizens, 552 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: but just running operations. Back up for a minute too. 553 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: You were telling a good story about this guy that 554 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: was doing the He's working on steelhead and all of 555 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: a sudden his stream runs out of water, and you 556 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: guys going to investigate and you find a grow operation. Right, 557 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: walk me through to the end of that, because I 558 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: got a question, but maybe maybe you'll answer it, okay, 559 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: So then what happens like you're like, wow, look at this, 560 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: Look at this. Here we are. This is a n 561 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: eye opener. Didn't expect this. We keep cruising down, you know, 562 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: kind of tactically and carefully, like we're stocking animals quietly 563 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: because you know, the spider senses are tingling. Something's wrong. 564 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: And then we see two arm growers, you know, one 565 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: with an a K, one with a pistol and his hip, 566 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: both having Michetti's and they're walking up the creek and 567 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: they're tending their plants and they're getting closer to us, 568 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: and I'm like, they're sort of them out working armed. 569 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: They're working armed, like they're ready. They're not like when 570 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: someone finds we'll be like, yeah, I'm guilty. It's it's 571 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: not that situation at all. Steve the situation and when 572 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: we get further into the team that developed and why 573 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: we develop the canines, and every time we go into 574 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: a grow site, when we run across growers, it's more 575 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: it's more often and odd that they're not armed than 576 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: when they are. And if they don't have the gun 577 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: right on them, then the guns being dropped or it's 578 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, in camp next to them. But nine times 579 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: out of tenants on them, because they have a lot 580 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: to lose, they at least have a pistol on them. 581 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: Some of them have a slung assault rifle as they're 582 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: working in the garden because you know, they know law 583 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: enforcement could be around the corner. They know what our 584 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: dogs are doing. But when we're going down that canyon. 585 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: I see these guys armed. I have one assault rifle 586 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: and an unarmed civilian in no way to radio out. 587 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, if this gets western, I get into 588 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: a gunfight right now, it's gonna be the worst day 589 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: in my career. This is not what I was preparing 590 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: m into my career. Yeah, because game wardens aren't notoriously 591 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: going in on stuff like this. Now, granted we went 592 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: in not knowing we were going into but we hit 593 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: we hit the cut bank. We just laid low. They 594 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: drifted by, they didn't see us. And then when I 595 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: saw how the water was diverted as servous as hell. Oh, 596 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: I was freaked out. Yeah, I mean my adrenaline dump 597 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: like that first buck. You know that I missed. You 598 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: got some biologist because he got some Yeah, I got 599 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: a biologist for he was savvy, you know, he was 600 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: a hunter. Even he was like, you know, we looked 601 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: at protocol, not at all. Man. When when when we 602 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: finally cleared that and we knew they were out of 603 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: the way, we just looked at each other. Those eyes 604 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: were huge, and he looked at me and I looked 605 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: at him, and we kind of nodded, you know, I said, 606 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: watch your six. We're gonna get out of here carefully. 607 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: We marked it. And then that was the time I 608 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: turned on and started to know narcotics Task Force teams, 609 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: met the Sheriff's department, met guys from their marijuana eradication 610 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: team that I later became very close to, and Warren 611 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: the Woods first book goes all into that where that 612 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: bond was built because game Wards are seeing this environmental crime, 613 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: but now we're getting this backlash with an agency of like, 614 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, traditionalists that want to do what we've always 615 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: done for years. But that that's that's that's what I 616 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: was driving out my second there's like a question boiling 617 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: up is uh, it's like such a trope of detective movies. 618 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: Where's a crime, and then the local cops, right, but 619 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: then the FBI they come and they assumed like they 620 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: come and assume jurisdiction. So you you see this, okay, 621 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my gosh, there's these guys and 622 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: they they got an illegal grow and they're illegally diverting 623 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: water and they're armed. Um, how does how does the 624 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: local sheriff's department, the state police not say back off Sonny, Yah, 625 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: we're going in hot. We're going in hot? Like, how 626 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: did how did you guys make it? That's the game board? 627 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: How did It's not logical that would be like, oh, 628 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: the game boardings will go do it? Well, it was, 629 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: it was. It was a long process and it was 630 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was met Our efforts of getting involved 631 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: in that was honestly met with with mixed feelings. You know, 632 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: like one hand is the group I brought in and 633 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: I go into this in detail in the book, but 634 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: I'll share it and just go a little further. Now, Um, 635 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: all the guys I brought into that mission, there was 636 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: a narcotics task force that we were working with that 637 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: lead it because they were had jurisdiction for that area. 638 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: Now we could have let it. We had jurisdiction. We 639 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: have a game boardings have more jurisdiction on more properties 640 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: than any other you know, federal, local, or state law 641 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: enforcement agency because of open fields and animals belong to everybody, 642 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: so we can go all over that wherever there's a 643 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: wildlife impact or wildlife or president that could be posted 644 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: or poison. But you know, it wasn't our forte and 645 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: we don't step on toes. We don't go in trying 646 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: to be something we're not. But I found it. And 647 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: we're pretty good in the woods. You know. We all 648 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: hunt and fish like you guys, and we know how 649 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: to get in quietly and we're good at tracking and 650 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: you know, being careful with our sound and our scent 651 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So, um, we got a big 652 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: group in Arcotics Task Force guys. We probably had thirty 653 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: people in this mission. And where there was um C 654 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: HP California Highway Patrol, there was state parks, there were 655 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: narcotic police departments, and there were a couple tactically trained 656 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: SWAT deputies from Sound of Claire County Sheriff's Office. And 657 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: the reason I'm gonna highlight that is because what happened 658 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: on that mission and my first mission, and what I 659 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: saw that went right and all the things that went wrong, 660 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: and I saw how the emphasis was on not really 661 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: catching bad guys. It was we're gonna go in and 662 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna bring this force down the canyon. 663 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna sort of try to sneak up on him 664 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: and maybe catch them. But um, if we don't catch them, 665 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna let them run away. Don't chase them. You 666 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: could get injured chasing these guys down. And then we're 667 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: gonna cut the plants and we're gonna destroy the plants. 668 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: We're gonnair lift him out with the big Payfalk helicopter. 669 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: UM federal funding for grants to you know, fund that 670 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: part of the mission was all based on plant count 671 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: at the time. And I'm going back to two thousand four. 672 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: This is you know, there's a historical bill that that 673 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: matters for hunters everywhere. And I saw that, and we 674 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: have the opportunity and myself in another game ward and 675 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: we're kind of the bird dog leads of getting these 676 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: guys in quietly leading in and then we pull it, 677 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: went to the side, let their tactical unit kind of 678 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: come in like a little swat element or seal team 679 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: the other thing. And um, I knew that if I 680 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: had been running the mission different, I wasn't gonna Monday 681 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: morning quarterback because it wasn't my mission. Now I was 682 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: just the guide since I found it, we could have 683 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: caught these guys easily and safely. And then when we 684 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: catch them that time, we didn't. We didn't. They were 685 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: they were yelled at to put their hands up fifty 686 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: yards away and they're hidden in their camp, and you know, 687 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: and they booked, they booked, and nobody wanted to chase 688 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: them but me and one other game warden and one 689 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: other sheriff's deputy. It was a sniper and a woodsy 690 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: guy from Pennsylvania. Yeah, one of my closest friends of 691 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: this day. And he's he's he's highlighted in the first 692 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: book especially. Um. We decided to give chase, and it 693 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: was futile because I had a big head start on us. 694 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: You know, this was way before canines. We had dialed 695 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: in on tactics. So we're chasing these guys a good 696 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: half mile down the canyon. They do get away, and 697 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: I went, well, you know, I know, if we had 698 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: got a little closer and stalked up to him safely 699 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: with rifle cover, we could have just run him into 700 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: two teams. It really wasn't that hard of a wasn't 701 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: rocket science. And then we eradicated all the plants, and 702 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: I looked at all the other guys on the mission 703 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: and I went, we got four while diversions. I didn't 704 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: know the magnitude of this pink poison. L Diablo, the 705 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: carbo fury, and you know that we call it pink 706 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: death because it kind of looks pink pasty. It was 707 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: all over, So I had no idea that we were 708 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: all around some super hazardous material. We didn't have nitral 709 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: gloves yet any of the protection gear that we now 710 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: have that we know about, and all that stuff was 711 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: left out there, and I'm like, are we going to 712 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: clean this stuff up? We got a big old military 713 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: helicopter can carry like four thousand pounds, and I mean, 714 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: can we take not only the plants, maybe able to 715 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: camp trash, all the poisons of the pesticides and they 716 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: keep a real clean camp. I'm guessing, Oh yeah, it's 717 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: their Christine. I mean they're all earth first, back to 718 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: green you know, it's I'm pack it out really organic. 719 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: You know they make the organic growers in California. Just go, 720 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is what we gotta step up 721 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: to this level. So, um, it didn't get done. And 722 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: what was funny was that in the cleanup didn't happen, Well, 723 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: the cleanup didn't happen, the apprehension didn't happen, and uh, 724 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: we kind of and we were kind of like considered 725 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: at the time by that task force of all right, 726 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: game wardens are good in the wood, stumble around to 727 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: your thing, you know, and guys get us down there, 728 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,719 Speaker 1: just get out of the way. Let us do our thing. 729 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: And I thought, well, federally in state, I'm sworn by 730 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: the state right work for the governor directly, and we're 731 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: sworn federally. And I'm like, my mandate is first to 732 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: protect public safety. Second thing is to protect the wildlife, 733 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: waterways and wild lands of not only our state, but 734 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: any state on min at any given time. I said, 735 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of game woard work now for 736 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: ten fifteen years, and I've seen a lot of poaching, 737 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: a lot of environmental destruction stream that stuff. But one 738 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: guy poaching the trophy buck or taking you know, five 739 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: too many trout, and what I saw, this one grows 740 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: site doing to the waterways and everything. It's trivial. And 741 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, and plus, this isn't like the guy that 742 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: just caught an extra trout, you know, by mistake, or 743 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: got a little greedy, you know, with his kids fishing 744 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: one day. This is a foreign entity here illegally with 745 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: no respect for our wildlife, wild lands, humanity in any 746 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: way from what I've seen, and that's no exaggeration, and 747 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: they're embedded and just making millions and millions of dollars 748 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: a black market profit, destroying our land in the process 749 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: and threatening anyone that is in to do that. And 750 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: I thought, well, I don't see any more important job 751 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: for a game warden to do based on how we're sworn. Now. Granted, 752 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: I was already more in the tactical element, working with 753 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: local teams in military and getting into swat training and 754 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: sniper rifle and you know, all that kind of stuff, 755 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: And so I had an affinity for going that direction, 756 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,959 Speaker 1: but not just to be a game ward and trying 757 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: to do that, but to applied if it could ever 758 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: be applied. And now I saw this type of environmental 759 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: criminal that was very dangerous and you can't just check 760 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: them on your standard patrol route. Walking a creek in 761 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: a standard you know, it just doesn't fit. It's not safe. Um. 762 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,479 Speaker 1: So we had we were met with mixed a mixed 763 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: bag of emotions, you know, and kind of kind of responses. Um. 764 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: But because of Santa Clair County Sheriff's Office, and I 765 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: gotta give a shout out to them. And by the way, 766 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: they're all fans of the show. They wanted me to 767 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: say hi to you guys. They all listen. A bunch 768 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: of them saw you when you did that live broadcast 769 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: and Sacramento recently. Um and you'll read them. They're all codenamed, 770 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: but they're all they're all fans of love Which and 771 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: they all hunt fish, you know, so the right way. 772 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: But those guys saw what we were doing, and they said, 773 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: you know what, this is crap man, this whole thing 774 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: that because you're a game war and you're not a 775 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: real cop or you can't be a special operations guy. 776 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: You can't be a legitimate swat guy. Let's get together. 777 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: I saw how you work, You saw how I worked. 778 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: We could have caught these guys. These other guys running 779 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: didn't think it was a good deal. So they started 780 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: bringing us under their wing. And so in two thousand 781 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: five we started doing missions, and we started doing ourselves 782 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: and not as you know, the burden bunny cops coming 783 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: in behind the sheriffs. We were equals. Now. I was 784 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: getting called in on planning, giving my outdoor you know, 785 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: knowledge and stuff and hunting and tracking and mapping out 786 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: things I can imagine, like how to get in and 787 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: out of right, Yeah, just like planning a hunt, like 788 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: how to get in and out of areas? How are 789 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: you going to get in out of the area? Is 790 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: what rid you're gonna drop down on for your camp 791 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: and how to recognize a place you're never gonna get 792 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: through it. It's just like hunting, you know, we just 793 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you change four legged to two leg and 794 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty similar. Obviously, there's all the navigational plausibility. 795 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: How long does it take to walk somewhere, what you 796 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: can do in the dark and can do in the dark, 797 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: just on and on right, that's what would be a 798 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: good glassing point to set up and find them. Seriously, 799 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: good observation points. When we when we got our Stiper unit, 800 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: Delta unit wrapped up in this new met team that 801 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: the second book goes into, it was you know, it 802 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: wasn't about getting on people all the time, although we 803 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: did a lot of that. It was about getting overwatch 804 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: like we would on a hunt, to watch a canyon below, 805 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: knowing where they were working and getting our team in 806 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: safe but seeing trends and changes. You tell that story 807 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: about that you guys had identified an individual that you 808 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: knew to be heavily involved, but he never came around. 809 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: And you talked about just sit and watch and watch 810 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: and watching for a long time, and you didn't want 811 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: to raid the sight until you could get until you 812 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: could validate or prove that he was in the know, 813 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: right from talking about just sitting and observing at intersection 814 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: out in the woods. Yeah, the big kingpin that knew 815 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: once he was once he was seen there, it was 816 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy and he was responsible and he waited. That was 817 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: a two three month deal, you know. And that was 818 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: with the sheriff's that I mentioned. That was with some 819 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: good partners. Did you guys have it once you got 820 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: rolling on this? Did you have a never ending list, 821 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: like like a never ending list of science that you 822 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: could never even get to because it takes because because 823 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: because of the danger element, you can't just go do 824 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: five or six in a day, right, You've got to 825 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: make a plan so no one gets hurt. So it's 826 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: inherently slow. It's by design, right, is inherently slow. You 827 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: can't just find one one day and grab a team 828 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: and run in and hit it the next day. I mean, 829 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: there's so much plan someone as you as you know 830 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: very well, someone gets shot yeah, yeah, exactly. And the 831 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: problem we would have is in the early days when 832 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: we weren't a formalized team and didn't have the capability 833 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: to plan on ourselves. It was me and a handful 834 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: of game wardens that were tactically savvy and trained really 835 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: good at the traditional stuff. But they were starting to 836 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: see this in other areas of the state and gravitating 837 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: towards it. So I would bring them down to Silicon 838 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: Valley or I would be pulled up to say northern California, 839 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,479 Speaker 1: um if our if our boundary district chiefs would allow 840 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: the move, and a lot didn't, you know, They're like, no, no, no, 841 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: that's on marijuana case. That's you're going to be a 842 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 1: garbage collector if you want to clean this stuff up, 843 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: and that's not a game ward and that's for that, 844 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: that's for the cops, that's for d A. I mean, 845 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: we had a lot of you know, internal chiefs and 846 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: caw optin is. It just didn't like it. And nothing 847 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: against that because it's a traditional job of what we 848 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: gotta do. The traditional stuff still important. I mean, we 849 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: can't stop doing the traditional game war and hunting and 850 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: fishing checks and being a steward out there. Um, but 851 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: this was now becoming the biggest environmental damage and crime 852 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: we were seeing throughout California because everything starts in the 853 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: headwaters and it's everything that happens downstreams. So it took 854 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: a long time to get to the level where we 855 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: were accepted. Um, we were equals. We were co planning missions. 856 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: And what we were doing is we were lending the 857 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: help to arrest and apprehend and do all the dirty, 858 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: arduous work of eradicating these plants and a hundred degree weather, 859 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, after an all night raid. But then we 860 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: were starting to bring these agencies into Hey, guys, if 861 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this, help us. You've got a helicopter 862 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: here today. Okay, it's a thousand dollars an hour to 863 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: run this blade. It's gonna disappear. We're never gonna have 864 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: a helicopter back in this canyon. Can we take three 865 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: four more hours bringing more people or just do it ourselves? 866 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: If we're not wrecked, and let's back up the trash, 867 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: let's restore the creek, because if we just leave and 868 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: winter hits all that crap swashing right into the creek, 869 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: it's just a continual environmental train wrecks. You guys, you 870 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: would do it all in one fell swoop. We're doing 871 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: it all in point fell swoop. You'd come in m 872 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: apprehend suspects like that lingo apprehend suspects, Um, do whatever 873 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: that involves, right, collect evidence and then start picking up 874 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,240 Speaker 1: garbage and bottling up. Cut a bunch of nasty plants 875 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: and stack those up and then going to like hazmat mode. Yeah, 876 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: going to hasmatt mode and do a cleanup mode. And 877 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: you know a lot of agencies that want to do that. 878 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: And when he laughed, it was like that thing was 879 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: never there to some extent, to some extent, and and 880 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: you had to tear out irrigation tons of it. Yeah, 881 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: the black pipe, even though that's not the biggest poisoning 882 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: element out there with all the other stuff. Some of 883 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: that pipe was running three miles to another county to 884 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: get water for one grow, no exaggeration. We track win 885 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: three miles one day. Is that all brought in on 886 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: just people's backs. Yeah, this is a crazy thing, bro. 887 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 1: They these guys, I will give them an a for effort. 888 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: They are hard workers. They're the toughest guys. They're bringing 889 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of yards of this 890 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: pipe on their backs, the running loads, hundred pound loads 891 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: continuously to get all their growth, the big five gallon 892 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: propane tanks, all the clones of marijuana, the seeds, the 893 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: camping gear. And they can't just go park at the 894 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: local trailhead. Oh no, No, they're gonna take crazy routes. 895 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: They gotta take crazy routes, and a lot of them. 896 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: Some of them are, you know, as close as three 897 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: four yards from a five billion dollar home on the 898 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 1: edge of the kid I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding, 899 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: especially where we started, because a lot of that stuff, 900 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: like haven't spent some time they are, a lot of 901 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,479 Speaker 1: that stuff is just like impenetrable. Yeah, like brush rush, yeah, 902 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, coyote brush, and they go around here. Wouldn't fly, 903 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: people would see it from so far away. But there 904 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: it's like dnse it's dance. It's dance and deeply cut 905 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: very much, very much. But they can get away with 906 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: a too. You know, they could be to three hundred 907 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: yards away from an affluent community in the Silicon Valley, 908 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: a kids science camp, we've had that, and then they 909 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: can be eight miles into crazy hike into the back country, 910 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, almost above alpine level, didn't you guys. I 911 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: think I feel like I saw this in your book 912 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,280 Speaker 1: that you guys found some growth sites on designated wilderness areas. 913 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: We did. We did. We had a we had an 914 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: issue with one of the coolest missions I've read. It 915 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: was like a top five in my career and it 916 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: was definitely one of the top couple. While I ran, 917 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: I think that's prohibited on a federal wilderness area, right, 918 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: I think, so you can't. You can't ride a bike. 919 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: You definitely can't can't ride a bike. I don't think 920 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: you grow cannabis and cans and you know, kill kill 921 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: golden trout and stuff like that. But yeah, we did. 922 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: We got in some wilderness areas and you know, we 923 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: were finding this stuff on grows um. We did one 924 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: thing over on the eastern Sierra California, and there's a 925 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,879 Speaker 1: species of a subspecies of rocky Mountain big horn sheep 926 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: called the Sierra Nevada horn sheep. They're all up there 927 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: in that lone Pine area, you know, below Mount Whitney, 928 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of them. They're about six 929 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 1: hundred at their at their peak population. And something. Our 930 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: agency had put millions and millions of dollars into, you know, 931 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: doing hands and then in Seen we had just an 932 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: excessively heavy winner. So those glacier snow packs were you know, 933 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: they they stayed up a lot longer, and the sheep 934 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 1: were pushed really low while they were getting pushed into 935 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 1: grow country. And these guys, these cartel guys were coming 936 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,439 Speaker 1: up from l A and coming up on the Eastern Sierra, 937 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: getting in that real pristine golden trout wilderness, you know, 938 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: kind of above above timber level, and they were putting 939 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: grows at like nine thousand feet. And we're up there, 940 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: you know, doing scouts and recons and we find grow 941 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: sites and it's you know, I mean, what is on 942 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: what's the value of a big horn sheep. That's only 943 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: six hundred of them in the world, you know. And 944 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: then there's black bears, and so we're finding black bears poisoned. 945 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: We actually found a massive, beautiful seventeen year old ram, 946 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, just the sentinel of that species. Lion killed. 947 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: But the only the reason he was lion killed was 948 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: he had ingested some of those poisons. He was only 949 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: a hundred yards from a grow he found and he 950 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: adjested some of those poisons and just walked off and 951 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: was in the process of dying. So he was an 952 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: easy target for a cat. So the cat got him, 953 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 1: which you know where you see at the you know, 954 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: end of a sheep's life, of course, but that cat's 955 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: probably poison it did to do. We never found that cat, 956 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 1: but when we started to see that, um, we said, hey, 957 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: there's no just raidingness and you know, chasing guys around 958 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,359 Speaker 1: and cutting plants. This crap needs to get out of here. Now. 959 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: Their sheep all over in this area, and you know, 960 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: they're even more sensitive than like, you know, threat endangered 961 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: steelheaded trout. There's far less of them, so we're we're 962 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: talking a great species, you know, and just in that 963 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 1: part and people wouldn't think that would be in California, 964 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: but that was a California species in one area. So 965 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: I learned a lot more about a different species of sheep. 966 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: It was super cool being a big game hunter. I 967 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: was just blown away. And we we spent you know, 968 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: se a part part of a good month and a 969 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: half up there doing missions like that. It was cool. 970 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: How do how do most of the sites get reported? 971 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: Our people? Do people out recreating. Find them? Do you 972 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: guys find them yourself? Do you find them from the air. 973 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: It's it's it's a mixed bag. We we find a 974 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: bunch from the air. Um, we can do a lot 975 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: with Google Earth. You know. Now Google it's gotten good enough. 976 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,320 Speaker 1: Just like when I'm learning a hunting route on a 977 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,720 Speaker 1: on a on a big game hunt. We're looking around 978 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: and we're looking at six months ago, six months now 979 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: in a traditional area. And really if you find a 980 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: south facing slope sometimes other facing slopes where there's a 981 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: water source, you know, through the summer, one out of 982 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 1: two times if we go do a scout and we 983 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: don't know anything's out there, we don't see anything from 984 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: the air, there hasn't been a tip. It's maybe not 985 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: even a historical grow site that's had grows there in 986 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: the past. We just go, Okay, this area has a good, 987 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, annual stream and it might be really really trickling, 988 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: but it's enough to you know, fortify marijuana, and it's 989 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: in the right area and it's remote and it's never 990 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: really been hit. Let's go scout it. It's hunting. Yeah, 991 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: there it is exactly it was like to find it 992 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: like this would be likely habitat not Yeah, one out 993 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: of two times we will find a grow doing that. 994 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 1: The guys that are in the game and it is 995 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of fun. You're hunting it. You know, 996 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: if you find it, you get you know, you get 997 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: the Easter egg that day. You're like, oh, yeah, now 998 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: we got a mission. But hunters, anglers hardcore you know, 999 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: back country guys, hikers that get off the standard trail. 1000 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,399 Speaker 1: You know, see man track signs off of a main 1001 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: hiking trail and wanted skill explore where does that go? 1002 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: Or they see that water you know that that semi 1003 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 1: annual blue line on the topo mapp or on their 1004 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: GPS screen and they go, you know, I just want 1005 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 1: to go check that out. I mean, I'd be hunting today. 1006 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: I'm scouting or putting a camera out on public land 1007 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,359 Speaker 1: or whatever, um or whatever, and they're checking it out 1008 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, oh there's plants. Oh I hear. 1009 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: Oh that's a guy with an a K forty seven 1010 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: um tippy tolling out you know, weapon up and then 1011 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,439 Speaker 1: calling us right away hopefully. So you mentioned, uh, there's 1012 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 1: some pictures in your book there are interesting just talking 1013 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: about man tracks. Do you guys found I know what 1014 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna go to now. Yeah, you have like trail 1015 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: cam images of guys with carpet right strafed the booth, 1016 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 1: but also fake cattle tracks like a slip on cow print. Yeah, 1017 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: you strafed your boot. Yeah, so you can make like 1018 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,720 Speaker 1: a cow print when you're going places you're not supposed 1019 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: to be. Yeah. And the funny part about that was 1020 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: we were getting duped for about a half a season. 1021 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: We were, you know, on a lot of public land 1022 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: like forest service lands, national forests. They're still catalyses, right, 1023 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: So these growers were realizing, hey, these you know, some 1024 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: of these teams are getting really good at finding our 1025 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: man tracks, even if we try to brush them. They 1026 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: know where you know, the water is, so they're kind 1027 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,399 Speaker 1: of bisecting our tracks. So these guys would put those 1028 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,439 Speaker 1: fake cow hoobs, you know, on the bottom of their feet, 1029 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: tie them off, go clumping around with the cattle, get 1030 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: up where the cattle are, then take them off, well, 1031 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, a couple hundred yards into the dense stuff 1032 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: like you just mentioned, Steve, And then you know, we're 1033 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: looking around for man tracks, knowing there's a gross somewhere 1034 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: up there, and overseen his cattle tracks. And then we 1035 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: caught a guy and he had that in his backpack. 1036 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: When we are clever bastard, I'm like, I'll give him 1037 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: another a for effort. But yeah, and then the felt 1038 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: bottoms on the you know, on the feet, they're they're 1039 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: they're definitely dedicated and diligent at counter tracking and staying camouflage. 1040 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: These are hard to find. Um, you know, they're they're 1041 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: not maver, They're not half they're not half assen it 1042 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: by no means in terms of people finding sites. Are 1043 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: there areas where there's such a presence that a place 1044 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,319 Speaker 1: gets a reputation among local hunters and anglers or other 1045 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: users where it winds up being that the idea is 1046 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: that it's not a good place to hang out. That's happened, 1047 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: especially in California. What we call it, we call that 1048 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: a d t O traditional grow area and DTO is 1049 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: just short for drug trafficking organization. It's basically an official 1050 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,800 Speaker 1: term that you see in the book that's you know, 1051 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: a law enforcement term for basically cartail groups a majority 1052 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: of any drug traffing organization referring to a cartel group 1053 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 1: mostly out of Mexico, UM and we do have those 1054 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 1: traditional areas, and these guys will go in, they'll set 1055 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: up a grow and they'll not be successful at it 1056 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 1: two or three years, and then it gets caught, you know, 1057 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: we busted or some agency does. And then they go 1058 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: another half mile up the canyon on the same water 1059 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,879 Speaker 1: source and they put another grow in because they're smart 1060 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: enough to know that the resources we put into finding 1061 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 1: these and the fact that we don't find near all 1062 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,399 Speaker 1: of them, and there's only so much money, there's only 1063 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 1: so many guys dedicated to doing this type of work 1064 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: with all the other law enforcement stuff we gotta do, 1065 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,239 Speaker 1: and we set it before. On the game ward in 1066 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: front is one example. You know, there's lessen four game warders, 1067 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: an example that I just came from my old home 1068 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: state of California and less and there's twelve of us 1069 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,760 Speaker 1: on my specialized tactical unit with two canines. And granted 1070 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: those teams are getting bigger, but I think of all 1071 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 1: the other impacts to poaching we got to do with 1072 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 1: the attraitional stuff, commercial wildlife sales, black market ivory, you know, uh, 1073 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,320 Speaker 1: you name it. The traditional poachers doing their thing. So 1074 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: these guys know by just doing the odds and playing 1075 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: the numbers. If their particular sector has ten or eleven 1076 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,799 Speaker 1: grows out in the forest and they lose even eight 1077 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: of them, two or three them are gonna make them 1078 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: about thirty million dollars profit. And that gets to the 1079 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: attrition of, hey, if we put enough out there, we're 1080 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 1: not gonna get some of some of them are going 1081 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: to make it. Does I want to ask how valuable 1082 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,279 Speaker 1: these are? Very? Yeah, they're They're valuable to the point 1083 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: where let's take an average growth site and this is 1084 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: this is the lower end of the average size save 1085 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,200 Speaker 1: five thousand plants. You know, that's medium to medium small 1086 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: from what we were used to see. And I had 1087 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: some of the Silicon Valley foothills in northern California when 1088 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: we were statewide that you know, reached fifty thou plants 1089 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: and covered like two football fields and they were spread 1090 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: out over a mile. I mean crazy, But five thousand plants. 1091 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: It approximately two thousand dollars on the black market per 1092 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 1: pant plant. That's kind of conservative. And if you do 1093 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: all those zeros and multiply, you know, a five thousand 1094 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 1: plant grow is still up in the several millions of 1095 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: black market profits. If we don't interdict it. So not 1096 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,400 Speaker 1: only is there a bunch of money involved, but our 1097 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 1: whole thing was, man, let's get this stuff, not let 1098 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: it get too big, because we don't want any of 1099 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 1: it harvested. And they dry it, they process it, they 1100 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: weigh it on scales. Actually in the grow site. They 1101 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,239 Speaker 1: put in one pound bags and they take it into 1102 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: sea bag and it's ready for sale. They just gotta 1103 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: get it out of the woods, get it to their 1104 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: pickup car, get it to a distribution center, and then 1105 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,320 Speaker 1: it's nationwide and we know it's all poison, carbo furience. 1106 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 1: It comes out ready to roll in their camps, very 1107 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,760 Speaker 1: organized digital scales, you know, vacuum bags of one pound 1108 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: wrapping material. Um. It's ready to go and they hang it, 1109 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,800 Speaker 1: they dry it, they trim it, um. They they're very efficient. 1110 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,920 Speaker 1: It's like working away. It's like working away. It's like 1111 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: going into an indoor growth site and a dispensary, except 1112 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,879 Speaker 1: it's you know, the bizarro version of that. It's nuts. 1113 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: I remember one time I was scouting for muskrats in 1114 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: Michigan one time and I was out cattail marsh and 1115 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: found a growth site that was it was all five 1116 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: gallon buckets. It was five gallon buckets laid out in 1117 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,960 Speaker 1: a cattail marsh. I mean, you never like no one 1118 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,719 Speaker 1: in a million years and find it if it wasn't 1119 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: for someone looking for muskrat hut. Yeah, you were going deep, 1120 00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,800 Speaker 1: man what I'm saying. But there's no one like camped 1121 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,440 Speaker 1: out there but and looking at and and going through 1122 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,759 Speaker 1: your book. I mean, it's like you guys can't take 1123 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:26,280 Speaker 1: for granted people are living in tents and stuff, guarding, guarding, 1124 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,439 Speaker 1: working Like a lot of these places have residents. Yeah, 1125 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: it's most of them. Do the big ones that get 1126 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,719 Speaker 1: above ten thousand plants you can't like, and especially if 1127 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: they're way in to the back country. A grower crew 1128 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 1: can't like hike in all day and all night and 1129 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: tend it and water it and tend those plants before 1130 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 1: they start drying out or before they get impacted by 1131 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 1: animals or they gotta move for sunlight or whatever and 1132 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,759 Speaker 1: then leave and then come back. They live in the 1133 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: site and these some of these complexes we've seen are 1134 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,800 Speaker 1: so elaborate. I mean, you know, adobes cut into the 1135 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 1: side of hills and camouflage like little ho chi min tunnels, 1136 00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,200 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of make a lot of 1137 00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:00,920 Speaker 1: references to you know, had you know, some of my 1138 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,400 Speaker 1: family veterans in the family and relatives, you know, Vietnam veterans. 1139 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,520 Speaker 1: I'd show him pictures or videos and s somewhere or 1140 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:07,960 Speaker 1: TV on this and see the pictures in the book, 1141 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,400 Speaker 1: and go I thought I was back man on the 1142 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, in order being on board this is crazy, 1143 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,839 Speaker 1: And I go, yeah, and we we would literally walk 1144 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,200 Speaker 1: five ft from this thing before we see something wrong 1145 00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,040 Speaker 1: in the brush on the wall and then it's dug 1146 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,360 Speaker 1: out like a tunnel and it's you know, like a 1147 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,000 Speaker 1: hooch that houses four guys. There's guns in it, there's 1148 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,760 Speaker 1: a kitchen that's all hidden um processing areas. Like wild 1149 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,520 Speaker 1: it's crazy, But explain the alluded this alluded to this earlier. 1150 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: Explain the like then, like the hell is the pungee 1151 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: pit four? I mean, who, like, how's that? That's not 1152 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,840 Speaker 1: really gonna save your growth site? No? No? See, like 1153 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:46,840 Speaker 1: so a game ward and falls in and gets like 1154 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 1: impaled on sharp sticks. I mean do they think that 1155 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: then everybody's just gonna leave and not come back. Yeah, 1156 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:52,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it doesn't make any sense. It 1157 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense other than you look at the 1158 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,839 Speaker 1: mindset of the of the criminal you're dealing with it. Hey, 1159 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,839 Speaker 1: someone's coming into my growth site and I don't want 1160 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,680 Speaker 1: an animal, I don't want a person. I don't care 1161 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 1: what harm I do to them, but I'm gonna do 1162 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,120 Speaker 1: anything i can harm them to such a level that 1163 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,319 Speaker 1: I'm going to impede as much progress as they make 1164 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 1: in their element of what their mission is. So when 1165 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: we started to see pungee pits like and that picture 1166 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,239 Speaker 1: was from a national park, that was that was you 1167 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: know Park National Park, Shasta County, And that was that 1168 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: was Brian Boyd, one of our premier canaine handler, and 1169 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,640 Speaker 1: canine Phoebe, and a bunch of guys from Shaftsa County 1170 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office. Um, and that was when we had our 1171 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: full time team. So we were up there. We were 1172 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 1: all over the place and one of our point guys, 1173 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,880 Speaker 1: a really good guy from Schafta County Sheriff's Office that 1174 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 1: we work with, almost stepped in that. And our canine Phoebe, 1175 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,399 Speaker 1: because she's been trained to detect so many other sense 1176 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,200 Speaker 1: our apprehension guru dog, she sniffed up on the band 1177 00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,839 Speaker 1: poisons and and alerted because that you know, that tarp 1178 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,759 Speaker 1: was so camouflage, he was gonna walk right into it. 1179 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: And what they're doing on those pungee pits, like in 1180 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 1: Vietnam they used to, you know, the Vietcong would dig 1181 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: the pungee pit for our soul, human human exprement exactly. 1182 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,360 Speaker 1: And then what these guys do is they take the 1183 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: band poise and they take the pink down. But but 1184 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: but they play that same game. Yeah, but track what 1185 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: I'm saying, where is the wind? There's no win. Where 1186 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,800 Speaker 1: is the wind? And maiming or killing a person like that, 1187 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,800 Speaker 1: it's just viciousness. There's no game because it's not like 1188 00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:14,960 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, we got him, now we'll continue to 1189 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: grow weed for ten years. Yeah, it's like, you know what, 1190 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: we hurt this guy, we slowed down his operation, We 1191 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,800 Speaker 1: got a piece of him, and we're going to just 1192 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,760 Speaker 1: move out. The other reason they put kind of bizarre 1193 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,040 Speaker 1: because like, yeah, and the only other advantage they have 1194 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:28,839 Speaker 1: is if you think of they put those pungee pits 1195 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,240 Speaker 1: just like that the little bear trap with the tuna 1196 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: can or snares. They put him on the edge of 1197 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: the grow or on the edge of a camp. So 1198 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,040 Speaker 1: if a team falls into that, they're not those guys 1199 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,200 Speaker 1: are gonna lose the grow, but they're probably gonna get 1200 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,040 Speaker 1: away because now we've got it, just went in and 1201 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: we formed a perimeter. We're looking for guns. We're not 1202 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,600 Speaker 1: going to continue to assault that grow, and if we do, 1203 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,359 Speaker 1: it's gonna be you know, several minutes, if not hours later. 1204 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,800 Speaker 1: And what's gonna happen now is those guys have escaped 1205 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,759 Speaker 1: trails and they they're good at what they do, and 1206 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,839 Speaker 1: they get not gonna save the site, but you might 1207 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,920 Speaker 1: they might buy you the time to go and and 1208 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,440 Speaker 1: we like to catch him because as we know, they're 1209 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,040 Speaker 1: so vetted, they're gonna get out of one grow and 1210 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:03,839 Speaker 1: they're gonna be thrown in another one within a day. 1211 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,280 Speaker 1: It's that, you know, it's like a journeyman moving around 1212 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: on a contracting job. Okay, you're not that needed here, 1213 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,560 Speaker 1: but you know we need you twenty miles to the 1214 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,640 Speaker 1: north on another one that we're doing. It's that same 1215 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:20,440 Speaker 1: mindset model. Tell everyone about bringing dogs into this. I 1216 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,480 Speaker 1: love it when you talk dogs. Man coming in the 1217 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,319 Speaker 1: office and all your dogs. I get a little yellow 1218 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,120 Speaker 1: lab that's retired as a companion canine. You know, she's nine. 1219 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,320 Speaker 1: She was a companion canine with me at work for 1220 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,320 Speaker 1: for six years and she wasn't gonna buy any cartel growers' 1221 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,440 Speaker 1: gonna lick him to death, but she could sniff it out. Um. 1222 00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,080 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna talk about the dog development, which really 1223 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,080 Speaker 1: started completely from scratch. So you know, you have you 1224 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: have law enforcement dogs that are working in cities, and 1225 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,439 Speaker 1: they're working out of cars, and they're you know, they're 1226 00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,280 Speaker 1: very close to back up and doing traditional law enforcement 1227 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,719 Speaker 1: canine stuff and those dogs are amazing save our lives 1228 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,040 Speaker 1: all the time. And then you got war dogs. You 1229 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: know that My Seal Team buddies have worked around, you know, 1230 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: and they evolved that whole canine program. I mean relatively recently, 1231 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,839 Speaker 1: even our military special forces guys. Um, it's been about 1232 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: a twenty year process. Especially the last ten years, it's 1233 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,480 Speaker 1: really changed. We were the same way on met but 1234 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,480 Speaker 1: we were having to take kind of a tell you 1235 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,719 Speaker 1: what Matt means, Matt, I didn't even do that. Yeah, 1236 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,279 Speaker 1: we're the marijuana Enforcement team, and the Marijuan Enforcement Team 1237 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,520 Speaker 1: was the official term of the tactical unit that we 1238 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 1: built a pilot program out and I hand picked all 1239 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,560 Speaker 1: the right guys from across the state to do just that. 1240 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,400 Speaker 1: We weren't doing traditional work anymore, of the hunting, the fishing, 1241 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, the traditional coaching stuff we're um chief might 1242 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,360 Speaker 1: carry on. Was so you know, uh concerned with this issue, 1243 00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,200 Speaker 1: and he believed in us enough to say, Okay, we're 1244 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,000 Speaker 1: gonna take some heat on this politically, and it's not 1245 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, might be met a little weird in inter 1246 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,719 Speaker 1: outer agency, but I want to test it. So you 1247 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,280 Speaker 1: guys build it and we'll do three months in summer. 1248 00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:49,840 Speaker 1: I'll get to the dogs. But this this is relevant 1249 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,719 Speaker 1: if you bear with me. And in six weeks into 1250 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,000 Speaker 1: this thing, since we weren't just at Hawk, all over 1251 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,160 Speaker 1: the state hodgepodge in it with different agencies, suddenly that 1252 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,279 Speaker 1: we the training was better. You know, I got better 1253 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,280 Speaker 1: equipment for the guys. We were all becoming a cohesive 1254 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,719 Speaker 1: unit like any small unit in special ops does. UM. 1255 00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,000 Speaker 1: We got the support and the funding to go out 1256 00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,399 Speaker 1: and be boundary lists so we didn't have to worry about, 1257 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,840 Speaker 1: oh now I'm into Northern California boundary. It's not my district. 1258 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,600 Speaker 1: I can't go into this. You know, this Captain's territory. 1259 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,360 Speaker 1: Now we were just working four headquarters for the chief 1260 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,760 Speaker 1: and going anywhere we needed to, just like a small 1261 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,120 Speaker 1: unit should be, you know. And in six weeks we 1262 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,680 Speaker 1: were documenting everything. We're far safer, We're catching a bunch 1263 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,560 Speaker 1: more guys. Our dogs were tearing it up. We had 1264 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: two great dogs, and we thought were just running out 1265 00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,760 Speaker 1: of money, and myself and uh, the captain that co 1266 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,440 Speaker 1: founded the team with me, we're meeting with all the 1267 00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,360 Speaker 1: chiefs to like beg for money and can we keep going. 1268 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 1: We want to prove ourselves by the end of summer, 1269 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,280 Speaker 1: and they said, hey, we've been talking before you guys 1270 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,720 Speaker 1: got here. We're done with that. We need this full 1271 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,440 Speaker 1: time by January one, So build it. Get the testing protocol. 1272 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,479 Speaker 1: It's open to everybody, but obviously we have some vetted 1273 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,720 Speaker 1: guys that are really good at it. Test them objectively, 1274 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,320 Speaker 1: and we had to basically build the first special operations 1275 00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,640 Speaker 1: force in fish and wildlife in our hunter to your history. 1276 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,520 Speaker 1: Test the guys and know, hey, you're leaving patrol. You 1277 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,840 Speaker 1: know it's one way and if if it succeeds, you're great. 1278 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,360 Speaker 1: If this thing fails, well you're gonna go back to patrol. 1279 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,480 Speaker 1: But it's going to be different. You know, I don't 1280 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,600 Speaker 1: know how welcome you're gonna be. And um, we just 1281 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: hit the ground running from until I retired. Now it's 1282 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 1: running great, And it was just it was amazing how 1283 00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,760 Speaker 1: much stuff we were not documenting, how much poisons we 1284 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,120 Speaker 1: were taking out that wasn't getting logged to know the amount, 1285 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 1: how much hundreds of miles of black polly pipe. Steve guys, 1286 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, I'm when I retired. I mean, you weren't 1287 00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,320 Speaker 1: you weren't you weren't cataloging You're not enough? Yeah, no, 1288 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,680 Speaker 1: I mean everybody, everybody was doing a little different because 1289 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,000 Speaker 1: like like Brian Boyd with Canine Phoebe, he'd be working 1290 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,680 Speaker 1: with Shasta all the time, apprehending a bunch of guys 1291 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: with you know, with that team, tearing a bunch of plants, 1292 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,040 Speaker 1: taking a bunch of poisons out, but nobody was doing 1293 00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,440 Speaker 1: the documentation that was getting back to us. And then 1294 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,520 Speaker 1: I was doing my thing with Santa Clair County Sheriff's 1295 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,200 Speaker 1: Office and I was, you know, honing tactics with them, 1296 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,160 Speaker 1: and we were developing things without dogs at that time, 1297 00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: but I wasn't documented anything. I was along for their 1298 00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: ride because we weren't running missions. So when we started 1299 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,240 Speaker 1: as a full time team, we were running missions, we 1300 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: were equals if we were using other agencies or being 1301 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,880 Speaker 1: with them and are Our different approach was we're three 1302 00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 1: pronged team. Okay, Met's gonna arrest and apprehend, you know, 1303 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,280 Speaker 1: as aggressively as we can safely with dogs without dogs. 1304 00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:19,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna hunt these guys. We're not going to just 1305 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,120 Speaker 1: go in and fly the helicopter in and drop in 1306 00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,880 Speaker 1: scarum away and cut plants. Secondly, we're gonna cut plants 1307 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,000 Speaker 1: safely if we can. Now we're aware of the poisons. 1308 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes we couldn't cut them because they're too toxically tainted. 1309 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,960 Speaker 1: They need like fourteen days just to like dissipate a 1310 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,120 Speaker 1: little before we can go in with the nitro gloves, 1311 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: the face masks, the proper protection equipment to even touch 1312 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,720 Speaker 1: this stuff, so we don't contaminate everything. So we take 1313 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: the plants out. That's phase two. But phase three that 1314 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,960 Speaker 1: we would push on any agency we would help on 1315 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,840 Speaker 1: a mission, if Met was going to be involved, if 1316 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: I was going to send my guys there is you 1317 00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,960 Speaker 1: guys gotta help us reclammate. You gotta help us clean 1318 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,000 Speaker 1: up the damages, restore the waterways. I want the wildlife 1319 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 1: content to be pristine when we leave. And if we 1320 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 1: can't do it that day, get it on the books 1321 00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,120 Speaker 1: to do it in the in the near future. Or 1322 01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,120 Speaker 1: if we don't have a helicopter that day to pull 1323 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,560 Speaker 1: it all out, Steve, then what we're gonna do. We're 1324 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: gonna bag it in really really heavy contractor bags. Get 1325 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,240 Speaker 1: it in an area where it can of road into 1326 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,640 Speaker 1: the stream, you know, through a year, through a winter 1327 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 1: with all that fishery and all those wildlife drinking off 1328 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,480 Speaker 1: those water sources, and we'll come back with a chopper. 1329 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,200 Speaker 1: You guys even came back with mules. We came back 1330 01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,880 Speaker 1: with mules. Yeah, we had some wilderness areas or we 1331 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,240 Speaker 1: didn't have a blade, you know. We Funding was always 1332 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: an issue because the most expensive part about these missions 1333 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,480 Speaker 1: is a cleanup. So it gets to Horsemen's expensive, very 1334 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,320 Speaker 1: expensive because of man manpower, equipment, manpower and equipment, you know, 1335 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,880 Speaker 1: and you need a helicopter to pull this stuff out, 1336 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,080 Speaker 1: and a lot of times you need a lot of 1337 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,080 Speaker 1: blade time because if it's a big grow, you're gonna 1338 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,800 Speaker 1: have you know, ten eleven, twelve, sometimes twenty loads of 1339 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,920 Speaker 1: six pound loads of a net and you're gonna have 1340 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 1: to fly it to you know, a disposal area, you're 1341 01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,920 Speaker 1: gonna have to come back. So it's a big cost 1342 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,040 Speaker 1: and a big cost that we're constantly reaching out to, 1343 01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, conservation friends to help us out um foundations, 1344 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,080 Speaker 1: UM that we we have, Uh, well you go get 1345 01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: outside of money to do cleanups, we have to, huh. 1346 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:06,320 Speaker 1: One of the one of the groups that we've been 1347 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,440 Speaker 1: working with, there's a really good group called the California 1348 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,760 Speaker 1: um Wildlife Offers Foundation, And it's like you know, ex 1349 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,400 Speaker 1: chiefs and you know, affluent donors that are conservation patriotically 1350 01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,280 Speaker 1: oriented and they formed a foundation about ten years ago 1351 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,040 Speaker 1: and just bring money in for the oh crap moments 1352 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,240 Speaker 1: like you know, we lose a canine to death and 1353 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, a canine and all the training that goes 1354 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,920 Speaker 1: into a canine, I mean, that's that's at endeavor. And 1355 01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,120 Speaker 1: then the tactical gear our team needed, night vision, you know, 1356 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,440 Speaker 1: battle helmets. I mean I built a sniper team that 1357 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,720 Speaker 1: had never been built before. So you know, you start 1358 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,120 Speaker 1: getting into weapons like that besides normal patrol weapons, and 1359 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: there's no budget for it, and it's already unconventional anyway. 1360 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: We had to get outside sources to fund that, and 1361 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:48,880 Speaker 1: we had a lot of good help on the canine front, 1362 01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,680 Speaker 1: especially with our new dogs and keeping our dogs safe 1363 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,560 Speaker 1: and that equipment we needed um from our Wildlife Officers 1364 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,400 Speaker 1: Foundation to good effect in some other places too. Yeah, 1365 01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,920 Speaker 1: So get into the dog like how you use the dogs. 1366 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,560 Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting the dogs. It is risky for the 1367 01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,760 Speaker 1: dog on a couple levels. And and as you probably 1368 01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 1: notice from the book, we've we've honed tactics a little 1369 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,040 Speaker 1: bit because our dogs are starting to get hurt because 1370 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,400 Speaker 1: these guys, these cartel growers, are aware of what our 1371 01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,640 Speaker 1: dogs can do. Um. The dogs are trained to be 1372 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,720 Speaker 1: as quiet as they can go in with us. Um. 1373 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,919 Speaker 1: If we see that they have a weapon and they're 1374 01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,920 Speaker 1: pulling that weapon, we're going to deploy a dog. We're 1375 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,360 Speaker 1: not going to try to take that guy head on 1376 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,040 Speaker 1: and get into a gun fight if we can avoid it. Um. 1377 01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,560 Speaker 1: We had had I think we had about four gun 1378 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,600 Speaker 1: fights up until we really got the dogs honed, and 1379 01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,400 Speaker 1: they were happening more and more frequently because a lot 1380 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,160 Speaker 1: of times, not every time, fortunately, but a lot of 1381 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:41,760 Speaker 1: times these guys don't want to give up, even if 1382 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,080 Speaker 1: they have a whole tactical unit of highly trained officers 1383 01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,880 Speaker 1: on them with big weaponry. So they're keeping their shotgun up, 1384 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,120 Speaker 1: they're pulling that pistol, and then we have to we 1385 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:50,840 Speaker 1: have to do what we gotta do to stay safe 1386 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,480 Speaker 1: and you know, solve the problem. Um. But it was 1387 01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,480 Speaker 1: always close calls, close calls, close calls. In two thousand 1388 01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,760 Speaker 1: five in the Silicon Valley foothills and August fifth, the 1389 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,200 Speaker 1: two thousand five a date you know, burned in Forever. 1390 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,000 Speaker 1: That was the first officer involve shooting we had in 1391 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,720 Speaker 1: a cartel grow site, and it was the first officer 1392 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,600 Speaker 1: in the nation that had ever been hurt or hit 1393 01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,880 Speaker 1: by one of these growers. It happened to be my 1394 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,720 Speaker 1: young game ward and partner that I had not only 1395 01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,520 Speaker 1: trained in the academy, but he had come on to 1396 01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,840 Speaker 1: be a partner in my squad in Santa Clara County 1397 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:20,520 Speaker 1: and one of the best game wardens we've ever had. 1398 01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,560 Speaker 1: Great guy, and he wanted to go on a raid 1399 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like, absolutely, I'm working with the Sheriff's office. 1400 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,240 Speaker 1: This was the pre met days, right, this is going 1401 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,080 Speaker 1: way back, and we're hiking up in there, and it 1402 01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,040 Speaker 1: was harvest time and it was an area they've been 1403 01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,600 Speaker 1: going eight to ten years a growers from working in 1404 01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,280 Speaker 1: a remote area of public land right above the Silicon Valley, 1405 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,440 Speaker 1: the tech capital there, and um, the guys were the 1406 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,840 Speaker 1: growers were there and they had armed gunmen just defending 1407 01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,800 Speaker 1: the grow during harvest time. I mean hardened cartel guys 1408 01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,360 Speaker 1: from down south in full camo s kss a k 1409 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,960 Speaker 1: S pistols where all the patron st monikers on their 1410 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,440 Speaker 1: hats and belt buckles and and and tactically they were 1411 01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,200 Speaker 1: set up right in the site. You know, they used 1412 01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,080 Speaker 1: the early morning light to their advantage. They had a 1413 01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,919 Speaker 1: little dugout parapet that they could kind of hide behind 1414 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,240 Speaker 1: a brush wall. And you know, we're looking, we're scanning, 1415 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,479 Speaker 1: we're doing everything we can. We're going through this grow site. 1416 01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,640 Speaker 1: And we hear one shot ring out and they only 1417 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,520 Speaker 1: got one shot off, fortunately because we all reacted the 1418 01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,080 Speaker 1: way we needed to before the gunfight got any further. 1419 01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,720 Speaker 1: But sadly, that one shot hit my partner through both 1420 01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:24,720 Speaker 1: of his legs. So he was hit with an AK 1421 01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,400 Speaker 1: forty seven round through his right leg and then it 1422 01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: exited his left leg. So he was bleeding out of 1423 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,000 Speaker 1: four holes for the better part of three hours. And 1424 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,560 Speaker 1: because no agency had ever been attacked like that from 1425 01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 1: these guys, air support wasn't really coordinated with their administration. 1426 01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,200 Speaker 1: No one knew who would come and help us because 1427 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,440 Speaker 1: he couldn't hike out, so we needed helicopter lift. Some 1428 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,280 Speaker 1: helicopter teams wouldn't come in because they said, hey, that's 1429 01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,320 Speaker 1: a hot zone. Man, We're not a military bird, you know, 1430 01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,720 Speaker 1: We're like, we're we're we're a fire you know, we're 1431 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,160 Speaker 1: a califire reputed and we're a hue and you know, 1432 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: if that's not a secure site and you just guys 1433 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:56,280 Speaker 1: saw it, he's gonna shoot us out of the air. 1434 01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:00,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna more casualties, which made sense. But my partner brother, 1435 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, is bleeding out to death and he's fighting 1436 01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,760 Speaker 1: three hours and he's fighting shock, and he was all 1437 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,960 Speaker 1: all all fight, you know, he wasn't gonna quit um. 1438 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,480 Speaker 1: And and it was his it was his will to 1439 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,000 Speaker 1: survive and his will to stay in the game that 1440 01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,840 Speaker 1: really kept him alive. But we realized that day when 1441 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,720 Speaker 1: he got here, rescued and finally made it out as 1442 01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,640 Speaker 1: he was going into shock um and survived and recovered 1443 01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,640 Speaker 1: and actually is a lieutenant now in California doing great work, 1444 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,320 Speaker 1: Thank heaven. Um. You know, just just we we really 1445 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:28,800 Speaker 1: looked out on that one, or we probably wouldn't be 1446 01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,240 Speaker 1: having this conversation. I don't know that we would have 1447 01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,480 Speaker 1: continued to do this work. Like you said, what are 1448 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:36,400 Speaker 1: you doing? Um that right, and then told me there's 1449 01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,480 Speaker 1: got to be a better way to detect these guys, 1450 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,919 Speaker 1: you know, and um, certainly we can go face to face. 1451 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,520 Speaker 1: We can do that. And that was right before literally 1452 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,760 Speaker 1: like a couple of months before we started doing an 1453 01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:51,400 Speaker 1: apprehension Canaine program. And that was before Brian Boyd Warren, 1454 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,439 Speaker 1: buddy of mine and a longtime teammate who I brought 1455 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,000 Speaker 1: into met when we started. That's when him and Knaine 1456 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Phoebe were made it up when she was just about 1457 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,480 Speaker 1: a year and a half old and they had to 1458 01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,680 Speaker 1: kind of trial and error these apprehension tactics are going 1459 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,800 Speaker 1: in and keeping her quiet and you know, it's hot, 1460 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,200 Speaker 1: we're going on long hikes, and then how do you 1461 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,760 Speaker 1: identify a bad guy not on an open field and 1462 01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,040 Speaker 1: a concrete parking letter, in an alley or in a 1463 01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 1: building right or near a car, but through all that 1464 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: brush and you said it before, Steve, how choked up 1465 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:22,880 Speaker 1: that terrain gets. That's of our missions. So you guys, 1466 01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,400 Speaker 1: what we're dealing with is we're going in and she's 1467 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,680 Speaker 1: got to see what that target is. We'll usually see 1468 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,480 Speaker 1: the gun we're hiding, we're landing in wait, just typical 1469 01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:35,320 Speaker 1: hunting situation. And then um, when we go to make 1470 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,240 Speaker 1: that announcement, we gotta get close enough that we don't 1471 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,400 Speaker 1: lose our suspect. And we got to deploy her knowing 1472 01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,560 Speaker 1: that we got to get on that dog quickly because 1473 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:44,200 Speaker 1: if he pulls a gun or a knife or anything 1474 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:45,720 Speaker 1: on the dog, the dog is gonna get hurt, or 1475 01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:47,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna get shot at. Or you're creeping. You like 1476 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,120 Speaker 1: creep up on the people. We creep up on the people. 1477 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,080 Speaker 1: We spent something We have literally spent five hours moving 1478 01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,520 Speaker 1: twenty yards and watching them and just like hear him 1479 01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,760 Speaker 1: talking working, you're here talking working or their process and 1480 01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:02,400 Speaker 1: or they aren't quite up out of camp and you 1481 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,760 Speaker 1: know you don't want to, you know, break cover for safety, 1482 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,120 Speaker 1: just just things that you naturally got to do. And 1483 01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:08,920 Speaker 1: there's been a lot. How tight do you like to 1484 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,280 Speaker 1: get for you spring the trap, you know, you know, buddy. 1485 01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,200 Speaker 1: It all depends guys on on on venue. It all depends. 1486 01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,840 Speaker 1: One time you guys, you guys were looking through their 1487 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,240 Speaker 1: tent window. Yeah, yeah, one time. I mean literally, it's 1488 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,680 Speaker 1: been good morning, not coffee I'm delivering, you know, and 1489 01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,880 Speaker 1: you're just right there. And sometimes it's been open field. 1490 01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:28,840 Speaker 1: You're in some sort of meadow, there's a processing area, 1491 01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,720 Speaker 1: and you know that they're getting Nancy, the dogs getting Nancy. 1492 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,320 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's you know, fifty yards. Well it needs 1493 01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,160 Speaker 1: to be close, It really needs to be close because 1494 01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,040 Speaker 1: they have the advantage. I mean, they know their terrain. 1495 01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,720 Speaker 1: They have escaped trails, they walk it morning, noon and night. 1496 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,040 Speaker 1: They know every sound. They know where the animal bird 1497 01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,320 Speaker 1: sounds are. They know when something makes us sound like 1498 01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,520 Speaker 1: you know from a good hunt, that that you know, 1499 01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,840 Speaker 1: that blue jay, that that stellar j that just burns 1500 01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,400 Speaker 1: us down, you know, or it's a raven here in Montana, 1501 01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,520 Speaker 1: a pine square or something like, oh man on that 1502 01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,920 Speaker 1: white tail and it goes a little sucker, same thing. 1503 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,800 Speaker 1: They know every sound. And so nine times out of ten, 1504 01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:04,760 Speaker 1: if a team isn't really honed at taking their time 1505 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,800 Speaker 1: and taking a long, slow, tactical stock in they're burned 1506 01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:09,280 Speaker 1: before they even get to the grow a gig to grow, 1507 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,480 Speaker 1: and you know there's a pot of food cooking, there's tracks. 1508 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:13,920 Speaker 1: You know, you don't see guns usually take them with them, 1509 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,760 Speaker 1: but that's all they take. And so it took a 1510 01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,560 Speaker 1: lot of years to go, okay, how are we This 1511 01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,280 Speaker 1: is a real this is a very formal labissary to catch. 1512 01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,519 Speaker 1: And then the challenge came up like a hunt of 1513 01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:25,719 Speaker 1: a you know, real nice animal. You're spending your lifetime 1514 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,200 Speaker 1: going after um and and that experience, and so we 1515 01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,160 Speaker 1: would get a little more honed. Okay, well that was 1516 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:32,600 Speaker 1: a little too far to deploy the dog, or a 1517 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,760 Speaker 1: little too far to make an announcement and announce and 1518 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:36,880 Speaker 1: you know from cover and now we're gonna that was 1519 01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,720 Speaker 1: a little too close because you know, we got him 1520 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:40,240 Speaker 1: before he got us, but it was you know, kind 1521 01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,559 Speaker 1: of oh crap distance. So it just veries a little 1522 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,960 Speaker 1: bits close. And so the dog mostly just goes in 1523 01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:53,080 Speaker 1: to take down the guy that like, that's his main job. 1524 01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,320 Speaker 1: That's one of the two primaries. And that's I'm glad 1525 01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:56,679 Speaker 1: you brought that up because I would not I would 1526 01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:58,600 Speaker 1: have forgot to cover that. But the other thing is 1527 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,439 Speaker 1: our apprehension do ugs you know are honestly some of 1528 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,479 Speaker 1: the some of the finest. And we have our other 1529 01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:08,360 Speaker 1: agencies now local agency sheriff's departments and um, federal agencies 1530 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,240 Speaker 1: that have incredible dogs that we work with. The whole 1531 01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:13,040 Speaker 1: dog thing is really kind of morphed, especially the last decade. 1532 01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:16,439 Speaker 1: But um, they're not just going in there to apprehend, 1533 01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,799 Speaker 1: They're going in to smell. Because like Phoebe is an example, 1534 01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,240 Speaker 1: is a great detection dog as much as she was 1535 01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:26,240 Speaker 1: an apprehension dog. Detection of what, detection of marijuana, detection 1536 01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,920 Speaker 1: of how they smell being in the woods that long, 1537 01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:30,920 Speaker 1: and the food they eat, they have a distinct smell 1538 01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:35,080 Speaker 1: because they don't growers. The growers exactly, Um, the band poisons. 1539 01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,160 Speaker 1: We can train our dogs to pick up that scent 1540 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,240 Speaker 1: of that poison that we can't touch. I mean you're 1541 01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:41,960 Speaker 1: talking forty four thousand times on that nose of that 1542 01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:45,840 Speaker 1: pub and so um, you know. Traditionally, our our apprehension 1543 01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,639 Speaker 1: dogs are detection dogs are trained to sniff abalone, black 1544 01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,400 Speaker 1: bear gun cartridges, powder, Yeah, for poached animals or a 1545 01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:54,640 Speaker 1: guy that you know, you guys have abalone dogs. We 1546 01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,360 Speaker 1: got abalone dogs because we're around the California coastline and 1547 01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,559 Speaker 1: commercial abalone deal. You know. So Phoebe was every bit 1548 01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,920 Speaker 1: of good. And Phoebe got really amazing at detecting the 1549 01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,560 Speaker 1: girls we get in and detecting men from tracks on 1550 01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,560 Speaker 1: the ground or their smell. And then she starts, you know, 1551 01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,600 Speaker 1: she starts squirling up sheets. She gets Birdie. That's it. 1552 01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,080 Speaker 1: She's Birdie big time, and she you know, it took 1553 01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,160 Speaker 1: her a couple of years to calm down. There were 1554 01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,120 Speaker 1: a lot of missed apprehensions because she's running through brush. 1555 01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,680 Speaker 1: One bad guy runs a partner next to hers, and 1556 01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,680 Speaker 1: camouflage were face painted. We all look the same, and 1557 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,600 Speaker 1: she's like, overload, who's the bad guy? You know? And 1558 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,320 Speaker 1: then miss missed the apprehension. But let me say apprehension 1559 01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,640 Speaker 1: me the dog. The dog is catching the person. The 1560 01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,200 Speaker 1: dogs catching the person. And not to sugarcoat it. When 1561 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,439 Speaker 1: they go to guns, I mean it's deadly forced. Now 1562 01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,000 Speaker 1: that dog is biting them with all the force that 1563 01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:42,840 Speaker 1: dog can bite them on, not leafalley, but putting enough 1564 01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:44,920 Speaker 1: pain compliance on them, whether they bite him in the thigh, 1565 01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:49,640 Speaker 1: the calf, the shoulder, the forearm. Canines. Different canines are 1566 01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,320 Speaker 1: wire different to buy different parts. I understand the legality 1567 01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,800 Speaker 1: on that, absolutely, No. Yeah, so the dog knows. The 1568 01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,200 Speaker 1: dog doesn't attack until unless it sees a gun. The 1569 01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,519 Speaker 1: dog is does attack until we give the command and 1570 01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:05,000 Speaker 1: release the dog to do so, gun or not. So 1571 01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,799 Speaker 1: the dog is just running like if it encounters a backpacker, 1572 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:09,599 Speaker 1: it's not gonna maul the back now, No, not at all. 1573 01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:11,920 Speaker 1: And that's all. That's what I was trying to figure out, Like, 1574 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,000 Speaker 1: how do you avoid just it whatever, loose on something stranger. 1575 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't do it until you're like they're that individual. Yeah, 1576 01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:21,960 Speaker 1: And I'm glad you brought that up because I always 1577 01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:23,400 Speaker 1: look at it from our you know, you said use 1578 01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,640 Speaker 1: of force and policy types things, you know, and from 1579 01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,120 Speaker 1: the layman, one of this dog just sees a gun 1580 01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:28,840 Speaker 1: and goes man, how does that work? You know? And 1581 01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,400 Speaker 1: but from this standpoint, about two three years in, Phoebe 1582 01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,840 Speaker 1: started to become the dog and we knew we had 1583 01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:36,960 Speaker 1: a you know, that special dog. And we all have 1584 01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,120 Speaker 1: great dogs, but we've all had that or heard about 1585 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,280 Speaker 1: that one in a million dog, right, that hunting dog, 1586 01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:44,040 Speaker 1: whether it's a waterfowl dog and mpland dog. Phoebe was 1587 01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:45,800 Speaker 1: that dog. And I'm gonna get into my other our 1588 01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:47,320 Speaker 1: other dogs here in a minute, but I'm gonna talk 1589 01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,280 Speaker 1: about Phoebe because she's not only legendary from saving lives 1590 01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,560 Speaker 1: and putting up great numbers. She was as socialist my 1591 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,680 Speaker 1: yellow labs. She never been an officer. Um. She was 1592 01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,400 Speaker 1: the kind of canine, no exaggeration. Guys, we're doing a 1593 01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 1: briefing three in the morning. We're under headlamps. We're with 1594 01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,519 Speaker 1: our group of met guys. We might have other agencies, Feds, 1595 01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,719 Speaker 1: county guys. We might have thirty guys there, and everybody 1596 01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,560 Speaker 1: looks kind of the same. And plus it's dark and 1597 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,360 Speaker 1: we're all in the battle gear and plate carries and 1598 01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,560 Speaker 1: rifles and face paint. She would go around Brian. We 1599 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,320 Speaker 1: do a briefing, you know, we brief everybody, our guys 1600 01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,160 Speaker 1: on the canines. We know him. We're trained to handle 1601 01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,200 Speaker 1: the canines with our handlers in case he gets tied 1602 01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,360 Speaker 1: up or hurt. But we have to tell everybody a 1603 01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,880 Speaker 1: brief that we're working with. Hey, this is my dog, 1604 01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:27,679 Speaker 1: this is her name. This is the command you give 1605 01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,560 Speaker 1: if you know she's on the bike and I'm disabled 1606 01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,000 Speaker 1: or you know in you know sidebard or whatever and 1607 01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,880 Speaker 1: I gotta get the dog off or needs to protect 1608 01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:38,920 Speaker 1: me or whatever. The com I can't say. I can't 1609 01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,200 Speaker 1: give that. I can't give that away. Is it a word? Word, 1610 01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:44,720 Speaker 1: it's a word, but I'll say it off the air. Yeah. 1611 01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,040 Speaker 1: So anyway, she um, and you can yell a word, 1612 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,000 Speaker 1: scream it, yell it, whisper it. She got that good. 1613 01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,120 Speaker 1: Not all dogs are that. They get kind of wired up. 1614 01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:54,680 Speaker 1: But what she would do is, guys, she would go 1615 01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,560 Speaker 1: around and hip check every officer. Look you're right in 1616 01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,080 Speaker 1: the eye. Wait till you petitor, look you I I 1617 01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:01,800 Speaker 1: and kind of like I got you today, I know 1618 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:03,479 Speaker 1: you now. And she would do it in a big 1619 01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,439 Speaker 1: circle every time she did it to me, and I 1620 01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:07,200 Speaker 1: knew her. She was like a family dog. She'd come 1621 01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:10,080 Speaker 1: and hang out with my dog before missions. And so 1622 01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:12,920 Speaker 1: in all the chaos, all the cacophony and all the 1623 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,439 Speaker 1: drama when it goes down and it just it gets 1624 01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:18,160 Speaker 1: crazy out there. If it's multiple multiple cartel guys and 1625 01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:20,479 Speaker 1: multiple guns were splitting the team up and we're in 1626 01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,160 Speaker 1: different camps. Um, she never been about you know, I've 1627 01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,479 Speaker 1: never been a good guy. And one of those things 1628 01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,240 Speaker 1: that if she got a little confused, we just point 1629 01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:28,760 Speaker 1: the weapon in the direction where she got to go 1630 01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:30,000 Speaker 1: and she's like, all right, I got it, and she 1631 01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,639 Speaker 1: just keeps going. And by the time um, she semi 1632 01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,560 Speaker 1: retired in ten, she had a hundred sixteen bite apprehensions 1633 01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,840 Speaker 1: on armed gunmen and she had nine hundred more arrests 1634 01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,439 Speaker 1: where she bade him and didn't have to bite because arrests. Yeah, yeah, 1635 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:47,320 Speaker 1: so almost a thousand if you look at one tenth 1636 01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,840 Speaker 1: of those being actual bites. And so see how many 1637 01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,759 Speaker 1: hundred sixteen bites and sixteen bite apprehensions and nine hundred 1638 01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,040 Speaker 1: apprehensions where she just got up to them but they 1639 01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,120 Speaker 1: gave up so they didn't get a bite because they 1640 01:13:58,160 --> 01:13:59,760 Speaker 1: didn't want any part of that. But when also they 1641 01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,519 Speaker 1: get volved, the dog doesn't attack, right, it would no 1642 01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,800 Speaker 1: longer threat. You know he's in custody if he puts 1643 01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:06,680 Speaker 1: the gun down and says, hey, I don't want you 1644 01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:08,560 Speaker 1: know a lot of them, Okay, So it's not a 1645 01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,160 Speaker 1: given that you're gonna get absolutely not. No, no, see, 1646 01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,479 Speaker 1: we were only gonna let that dog that's like keep 1647 01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:15,920 Speaker 1: being curious about like you're like toll on it, but 1648 01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:19,600 Speaker 1: like keepe, curious about how like how this is received 1649 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,200 Speaker 1: by administrators the public. What I was like, Okay, you 1650 01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:29,080 Speaker 1: got some dogs and it seems pretty sophisticated dogs. They're 1651 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,240 Speaker 1: very sophisticated dogs. They're highly trained. I mean you look 1652 01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:35,360 Speaker 1: at the way we train our dogs, the way say 1653 01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:38,040 Speaker 1: it's Seal Team buddies of ours train their dogs, and 1654 01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,599 Speaker 1: how they're you know, designed, and how their the mission 1655 01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,760 Speaker 1: is a little different, but the level of training, the 1656 01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,840 Speaker 1: level of control, the level of restraint or the level 1657 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,760 Speaker 1: of aggression that needs to be executed when it does, 1658 01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:48,880 Speaker 1: it's the same. We use the same type of dogs 1659 01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,320 Speaker 1: that are special forces do for a reason because what 1660 01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,840 Speaker 1: you just said, Steve, is policy on how much force 1661 01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:56,519 Speaker 1: can you use. And when you come from a state 1662 01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,920 Speaker 1: like California, not only California, but I mean canine at 1663 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:04,280 Speaker 1: hensons are scrutinized stay in the world, right, you know, 1664 01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:08,240 Speaker 1: chill it really like what dogs are biting people? Why 1665 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,800 Speaker 1: would you ever have to bite somebody with a dog? 1666 01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:11,960 Speaker 1: So um, But to get to that point, yeah, we 1667 01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,080 Speaker 1: we we stay right within the you know, only use 1668 01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:15,760 Speaker 1: the force we need. And it's not only us with 1669 01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,120 Speaker 1: our weapons. It's dogs too. But what I can say, 1670 01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:19,800 Speaker 1: and all those bites she made, and I mean, I 1671 01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:21,360 Speaker 1: don't know if any other dog that has ever come 1672 01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:23,760 Speaker 1: close to those those numbers. And that's not a dig, 1673 01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:28,240 Speaker 1: but she prevented so many gun fights when we had 1674 01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,960 Speaker 1: her on the team permanently once we started in um 1675 01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,040 Speaker 1: with all the crazy missions we had when the team 1676 01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:35,640 Speaker 1: was developed, over the five years I was there with 1677 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,840 Speaker 1: it running it, she prevented at least forty gun fights 1678 01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,479 Speaker 1: no exaggeration, twenty of which two of them. That's well. 1679 01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,760 Speaker 1: The third chapter of Hidden War, as you notice, went 1680 01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:45,840 Speaker 1: into that where we weren't a team yet. It was 1681 01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,680 Speaker 1: a year before we had our full time team. But 1682 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,280 Speaker 1: I was able to bring Brian and Phoebe down to 1683 01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:52,160 Speaker 1: Santa Clara County with my Sheriff's partners, and we had 1684 01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,840 Speaker 1: two armed guys coming right at us once pulling a 1685 01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,000 Speaker 1: tarist judge. Brian's like, John, I got this guy take 1686 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,880 Speaker 1: my dog. And so Phoebe's biting another guy that's pulling 1687 01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:03,040 Speaker 1: another gun, and I'm like, I guess I'm dealing with 1688 01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,160 Speaker 1: the dog now because I was his covered in his 1689 01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,639 Speaker 1: canine support that day. So I'm dealing with the dog. 1690 01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,000 Speaker 1: But that guy that had that gun, it was a 1691 01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:12,320 Speaker 1: Russian torqu croft pistol, and Phoebe had him bit and 1692 01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,800 Speaker 1: was putting bite pressure on his back calf, and he 1693 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,920 Speaker 1: was laying on his belly, and she was putting enough 1694 01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,240 Speaker 1: pressure on him that he couldn't just pull the gun 1695 01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,439 Speaker 1: out real quick and start shooting me and my rifle cover. 1696 01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:25,080 Speaker 1: He was struggling and under pain, and he got it 1697 01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:26,880 Speaker 1: to write about here when I dove on his back, 1698 01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,120 Speaker 1: and had she not been there, I would have had 1699 01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:31,240 Speaker 1: to engage that guy. He would have engaged me or 1700 01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:33,479 Speaker 1: three guys behind me, and several of us would have 1701 01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,360 Speaker 1: been hurt. And then that's when the light bulb went off. 1702 01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:37,639 Speaker 1: I went, I've worked with you a lot of times 1703 01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:39,640 Speaker 1: with Phoebe all through some Wild Justice filming when we 1704 01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:41,479 Speaker 1: did the Nagio thing, and we would work together and 1705 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,320 Speaker 1: not catch anybody, and then we'd go apart with the 1706 01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,040 Speaker 1: film crews and catch other people. But I had never 1707 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,840 Speaker 1: seen Phoebe actually doing apprehension, even though I knew how 1708 01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,000 Speaker 1: cool she was and how awesome Brian was as a handler. 1709 01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:54,400 Speaker 1: In that symbiotic canine handler relationship they had developed, and 1710 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,040 Speaker 1: when that when it was my life and my guys, 1711 01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:58,840 Speaker 1: and it got so crazy and I was this close 1712 01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:00,840 Speaker 1: to getting in another one and having to shoot myself 1713 01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,559 Speaker 1: since the first gun fight No. Five, when when Kyle 1714 01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,080 Speaker 1: was shot, I was like, we need this all the time. 1715 01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,040 Speaker 1: When we're doing this job with these cartel growers, we 1716 01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,360 Speaker 1: need this all the time. We can't be We're gonna 1717 01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,200 Speaker 1: do it, but we have one dog that's doing this statewide, 1718 01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:16,120 Speaker 1: and we're doing it in four different parts of the state, 1719 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,000 Speaker 1: and Phoebe's tied up in Shasta and now we're gonna 1720 01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,600 Speaker 1: go just rogue it on foot. And we had some 1721 01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,600 Speaker 1: other gunfights we could not get out of because we 1722 01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,840 Speaker 1: didn't have a dog on several missions. And so when 1723 01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:27,880 Speaker 1: we got the full time team and how we built it, 1724 01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:30,960 Speaker 1: it was a godsend, guys, no exaggeration, because I had 1725 01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:35,479 Speaker 1: moose dogs get shot. We've had we haven't had one 1726 01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,320 Speaker 1: shot that I know of, but we've had them stabbed fatally. 1727 01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:40,880 Speaker 1: What started to happen and I go into this a 1728 01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,200 Speaker 1: little bit, as you remember in the book, and I 1729 01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 1: have a couple of pictures where you got one dog 1730 01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,240 Speaker 1: got stabbed but then recovered right. But recovered, and that 1731 01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,080 Speaker 1: was one that did recover that got stabbed, But there 1732 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,799 Speaker 1: are several that didn't recover, and they weren't with our agency. 1733 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,519 Speaker 1: There were with other agencies. But um, we all kind 1734 01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,000 Speaker 1: of took a big breath and went, Okay, is there 1735 01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,679 Speaker 1: any way we could have prevented that? Is there anything 1736 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:00,920 Speaker 1: we could have done to change or cane I and tactics, 1737 01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:03,559 Speaker 1: and you know, they become I mean, we're all dog 1738 01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,519 Speaker 1: people here in the room, man. There there there are 1739 01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:07,800 Speaker 1: family and they go home with us. They're not just 1740 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:09,679 Speaker 1: work dogs. We have them as pets from the start 1741 01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,640 Speaker 1: in canines. We retire with them. And so you know 1742 01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,120 Speaker 1: when some of our are our allied agency brothers on 1743 01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:18,080 Speaker 1: the federal level, we're losing dogs because these cartel guys 1744 01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,640 Speaker 1: were starting to realize, Hey, if that dog's really far 1745 01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,200 Speaker 1: away from the officers and I'm not pulling guns, and 1746 01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,160 Speaker 1: I suck in that dog and I take the bite, 1747 01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:26,640 Speaker 1: but I got a fixed blade of eight to ten 1748 01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:28,400 Speaker 1: inches on my hip, and I can stab for that 1749 01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,120 Speaker 1: jugular up in front of those ribs. I can take 1750 01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:33,439 Speaker 1: this dog out because I know this dog has shut down. 1751 01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:36,960 Speaker 1: About thirty of my partners grows and that team would 1752 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:38,960 Speaker 1: not have been as good maybe or in their mind 1753 01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,479 Speaker 1: of catching so many guys and really apprehending our main 1754 01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:44,760 Speaker 1: guy or a couple of guys in that grow and 1755 01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:46,600 Speaker 1: not only shutting it down, but putting these guys in 1756 01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:48,439 Speaker 1: jail and putting the hurt on them and when they 1757 01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:50,320 Speaker 1: would be in that violent and so if we take 1758 01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,360 Speaker 1: their dogs, we're gonna slow these guys down and make 1759 01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,000 Speaker 1: them less effective. They they're not done that way. UM, 1760 01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:57,599 Speaker 1: so we we hone some things and none of our dogs. 1761 01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,920 Speaker 1: Um we're stabbed fatally, but I mean being she She 1762 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,519 Speaker 1: passed away sadly last year at thirteen years old, and 1763 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,479 Speaker 1: um it was a leukemia. Um. She had been semi 1764 01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:09,320 Speaker 1: retired even though she was checked out as a seven 1765 01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:12,120 Speaker 1: year old dog healthwise by the ved at like twelve, 1766 01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:17,000 Speaker 1: she was still actually technically deployable. You know, our administrators rightfully, 1767 01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:20,920 Speaker 1: so are our canine program leads, and and even myself 1768 01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:22,720 Speaker 1: and Brian and all of our other guys on the 1769 01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:25,960 Speaker 1: team were like, you know, she has had a historical career. Man, 1770 01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,599 Speaker 1: let's if we can get another dog up in her place. 1771 01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,280 Speaker 1: That she's getting up there. She's like battling the odds 1772 01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,639 Speaker 1: of age. You know, it's not common for a twelve 1773 01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,120 Speaker 1: year old Belgium mall to be out apprehending guy's hardcore 1774 01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,880 Speaker 1: still they're usually done, but she was doing it. So 1775 01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,639 Speaker 1: we pulled her and we developed the new dog, which 1776 01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:44,719 Speaker 1: is Brian's current dog, a male, a little bigger than Phoebe. 1777 01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:47,240 Speaker 1: He's doing great work. What's one of those dogs way? 1778 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,640 Speaker 1: You know somewhere the real lightweight little little missiles we 1779 01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,599 Speaker 1: call them a little female missiles and males maybe fifty 1780 01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,360 Speaker 1: five pounds sixty pounds max. And then the big ones. 1781 01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,519 Speaker 1: You know, so a fifty pound dog can take a 1782 01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:03,960 Speaker 1: person down. Puts crazy. We got we got a little 1783 01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,479 Speaker 1: lightweight one work and a that um, just a straight 1784 01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:09,599 Speaker 1: firm missile. Man, I'm no joke. You guys are think 1785 01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,560 Speaker 1: about training up some mountain lions if we could do 1786 01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:15,000 Speaker 1: what we would, man, that's a good idea. Hey, our 1787 01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:19,280 Speaker 1: people are people in your community? Um, are they miffed 1788 01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:22,960 Speaker 1: that that you do? You feel that you that you 1789 01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:26,360 Speaker 1: revealed too much about how your guys, how you guys 1790 01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:28,400 Speaker 1: like to operate by writing a book about it, you know, 1791 01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,400 Speaker 1: not so much. It's been one of those things where 1792 01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,200 Speaker 1: we balance it, you know, and our agency, and I 1793 01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:36,599 Speaker 1: was one of not the only, but one of a few. 1794 01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:39,000 Speaker 1: You know that we're kind of targeted by. I'll go 1795 01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,120 Speaker 1: back to Wild Justice and the TV thing because that 1796 01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,200 Speaker 1: was a big exposure. Ever, even outside of the book, Um, 1797 01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:47,439 Speaker 1: the thing for me was, you know, it wasn't about 1798 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, showboating anything game wardens do, or what I 1799 01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:51,880 Speaker 1: was doing or what my guys was doing. It was 1800 01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:54,880 Speaker 1: I've been dyed in the Little Leven Wildlife wild lands 1801 01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,080 Speaker 1: and waterway since I was a kid. And when I 1802 01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,320 Speaker 1: saw the destruction, man, it broke my heart. And when 1803 01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,280 Speaker 1: I saw this car, healthing happened. And I'm like, Okay, 1804 01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, we can take the easy path, in the 1805 01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:05,719 Speaker 1: safer path, maybe go do the fishing license compliance stuff, 1806 01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,280 Speaker 1: or we can dive into this. But here's a problem. 1807 01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:11,000 Speaker 1: No one knows this that's going on. We're not going 1808 01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:12,639 Speaker 1: to fight it alone. I don't care for the most 1809 01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,280 Speaker 1: whiz bang tactical, high speed low drag seal Team six 1810 01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,320 Speaker 1: slack team doing our thing. We're gonna w one tiny 1811 01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:21,280 Speaker 1: little dance in this issue in one part of California. 1812 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,200 Speaker 1: This is going on nationally and I'm like, and I 1813 01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:24,720 Speaker 1: keep hearing the same thing over and over again, over 1814 01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,120 Speaker 1: and over again. Hey, nobody knows. Nobody knows other law 1815 01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:29,400 Speaker 1: enforcement teams that are coming up in other states and 1816 01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:31,240 Speaker 1: even in our own state having the same challenge, and 1817 01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:34,960 Speaker 1: they're like, can you train us? Can You'm given presentations 1818 01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,320 Speaker 1: on the shootouts we were in one where my partner 1819 01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,600 Speaker 1: was shot. We have a whole debrief presentation. I do 1820 01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,880 Speaker 1: PowerPoint radio tapes for l groups all over the country. 1821 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,120 Speaker 1: So all the mistakes we made and almost got shot 1822 01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:46,720 Speaker 1: and killed. I don't want to see that happen in 1823 01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,479 Speaker 1: any of my brothers are like, we're talking about that 1824 01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:50,680 Speaker 1: story you have where you had a guy that was 1825 01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,559 Speaker 1: down for three hours, right, yeah, you know, or all 1826 01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,160 Speaker 1: of us in the room being out and you guys 1827 01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,439 Speaker 1: get hurt. I get hurt hunting, you know, off duty 1828 01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:58,120 Speaker 1: doing my thing because I'm out there, you know, with 1829 01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,880 Speaker 1: just my family. Um so we we we waghed do 1830 01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,640 Speaker 1: we talk about or do we not talk about it? 1831 01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:05,040 Speaker 1: And one thing I do in the book and we 1832 01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,320 Speaker 1: did on TV two we give away stuff that isn't 1833 01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,960 Speaker 1: really super secret. I mean, if you really dig deep, 1834 01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna find it. It's pretty common stuff. I mean, 1835 01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,160 Speaker 1: I don't talk about the the inner team tactics you 1836 01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,360 Speaker 1: know right now, um on these broadcasts. I certainly didn't 1837 01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,360 Speaker 1: reveal them on TV, but we got to give up 1838 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:23,360 Speaker 1: a little to get the message out. The other thing 1839 01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:25,519 Speaker 1: we needed to do besides getting this issue out was 1840 01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:28,240 Speaker 1: I just felt like we needed to legitimize game wards everywhere. 1841 01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,920 Speaker 1: The thin green line of conservation officers was checking out 1842 01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:33,360 Speaker 1: your shirt where it's like, it's like what you call 1843 01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:35,519 Speaker 1: the the blue the thin blue line. Yeah, and this 1844 01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:37,000 Speaker 1: is the thing green he's got. He's got one of 1845 01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,360 Speaker 1: the shirts with the with the black and white flag 1846 01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,240 Speaker 1: on it, with the game warden green. Yeah. Well you 1847 01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:44,280 Speaker 1: notice that I've never seen on those floor. Yeah, And 1848 01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,200 Speaker 1: that's just that's that's that's the same thing. It's just 1849 01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:49,559 Speaker 1: you're looking at rangers, conservation officers, border patrol, You're looking 1850 01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:51,160 Speaker 1: at those of us that are in our wild lands 1851 01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:53,840 Speaker 1: without a lot of support, and you know, not to 1852 01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:55,720 Speaker 1: take anything away from the thin blue line because we're 1853 01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,400 Speaker 1: all law enforcement. You know, this isn't anything different. It's 1854 01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:00,720 Speaker 1: just showing that as thin as the blue line is, 1855 01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:04,000 Speaker 1: there are so few game wards per capita compared to 1856 01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:07,000 Speaker 1: our populations throughout the entire country. And obviously we still 1857 01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,000 Speaker 1: have all that traditional wildlife poaching going on that we 1858 01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:11,000 Speaker 1: talked about that we you know, some of us don't 1859 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,680 Speaker 1: do a lot of anymore. And you and you're not. 1860 01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:14,599 Speaker 1: And then you've got this too, Yeah, you're not. You're 1861 01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:18,200 Speaker 1: not acting like that's not important. No, no, And there's 1862 01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:20,960 Speaker 1: some Pennessee sections and hid more that you probably noticed 1863 01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:23,240 Speaker 1: where we did a study between the first book and 1864 01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:25,320 Speaker 1: the second book. It's been exactly a decade and we 1865 01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:28,360 Speaker 1: look at the population of every state in the nation 1866 01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:30,960 Speaker 1: numbers and the game ward numbers, and you've got this 1867 01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:35,479 Speaker 1: explanation multimillion growth in impacts to our wild lands and 1868 01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,760 Speaker 1: we've added like eight hundred game wards nationally and it like, 1869 01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago there's forty six game wards. 1870 01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:44,600 Speaker 1: Now you've got a forty seven. So it boys, it 1871 01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,200 Speaker 1: really comes down to um sharing what we need to share. 1872 01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,400 Speaker 1: Not only you know, talk about what the thing green 1873 01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:53,120 Speaker 1: line of conservation warriors do nationally, even outside of the 1874 01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:56,120 Speaker 1: special ops stuff, the traditional stuff, but letting all you 1875 01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:57,680 Speaker 1: guys know that our eyes and ears, I mean, we're 1876 01:23:57,720 --> 01:23:59,800 Speaker 1: all team. You guys are avian hunters for all the 1877 01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:01,599 Speaker 1: right reasons. You're in the woods for all the right reasons. 1878 01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,800 Speaker 1: We call you, you know, fellow hunters, force multipliers. You're 1879 01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:07,280 Speaker 1: gonna find it, You're savvy around it, you're gonna get 1880 01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:10,400 Speaker 1: out safely because you've got great skills and you're piste off. 1881 01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:12,479 Speaker 1: And I rate to see this happen on your public 1882 01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:15,880 Speaker 1: lands or even private honey ranches. California is a fifty 1883 01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,080 Speaker 1: fifty split right now. When I retired and Steve, this 1884 01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:21,280 Speaker 1: is guys, this is an interesting stat we I did 1885 01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:23,120 Speaker 1: those stats as I keep them all annually and I 1886 01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:27,120 Speaker 1: tabulate my my spreadsheets. It was literally a fifty fifty 1887 01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,200 Speaker 1: ratio of private land, personal ranches that the cartels are 1888 01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,200 Speaker 1: infiltrated and public lands. So I could be on one 1889 01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:35,120 Speaker 1: of my buddies blacktail hunting clubs that I grew on, 1890 01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,800 Speaker 1: grew up on, doing a blacktail deer hunt, or I'm 1891 01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:39,840 Speaker 1: doing a you know, spring hog hunt, thinking, oh man, 1892 01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,479 Speaker 1: you know he won't be this deep in. My buddy 1893 01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:44,599 Speaker 1: and his ranchers and his cattlemen are running fence all 1894 01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,120 Speaker 1: the time, and I find a grow site, like you 1895 01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,240 Speaker 1: got to be freaking kidding me. I don't want to 1896 01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,320 Speaker 1: name the place, but I was on his place was 1897 01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,680 Speaker 1: a big ranch and they do a lot of like 1898 01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:56,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a big recreation program on 1899 01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:57,960 Speaker 1: his ranch. They run cab but they also have like 1900 01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:02,280 Speaker 1: an actual recreation program, an advertised recreation program. And when 1901 01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,439 Speaker 1: I was talking to those guys, it's a constant thing 1902 01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:08,120 Speaker 1: of theirs. Yeah, it's become literally the biggest people backpacking 1903 01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:10,600 Speaker 1: in and a state. And this is on a on 1904 01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:15,920 Speaker 1: a very active ranch property and they're constantly encountering illegal 1905 01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,760 Speaker 1: grow sites to pop up. Yeah, and not happy about it. Yeah, 1906 01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:21,600 Speaker 1: And it's you hit it on the head to the 1907 01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,679 Speaker 1: point where how much do you want to keep hunting? 1908 01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,960 Speaker 1: I mean, how much is that starting to outweigh? Are 1909 01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:30,200 Speaker 1: you know? We have dwindling consumptive users and conservation actually 1910 01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:31,680 Speaker 1: hunt in California, And I mean I go back to 1911 01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:33,560 Speaker 1: my old home state and I say, look, there's so 1912 01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:35,960 Speaker 1: much good resource there. That is a beautiful state, and 1913 01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,720 Speaker 1: we're losing you know, hunting numbers like exponentially. And that's 1914 01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,479 Speaker 1: necessarily not helping because I go back and one out 1915 01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:44,280 Speaker 1: of two times, even on private land, I'm gonna run 1916 01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:45,720 Speaker 1: into a grow site and I'm like, dude, I really 1917 01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,680 Speaker 1: want to deal with the grow site today when I'm 1918 01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:49,720 Speaker 1: on one of my few hunts because I still go back. 1919 01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:53,120 Speaker 1: I have little kids, and yeah, problems, but the Turkey 1920 01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:54,639 Speaker 1: and you know, it's a great state. I mean, there's 1921 01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,000 Speaker 1: some really cool hunts out there, so we want to 1922 01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,280 Speaker 1: we want to counter that as much as possible. Hey, uh, 1923 01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,160 Speaker 1: I don't expect you to do this out of memory, 1924 01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,720 Speaker 1: but in your book you have in the end, you 1925 01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:06,559 Speaker 1: have a little bit of a snaps as the house 1926 01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:11,120 Speaker 1: of you put some metrics okay around miles of pipe 1927 01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:14,760 Speaker 1: the stat sheet. Yeah, rat open that up and rattle 1928 01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:16,400 Speaker 1: a couple of those off. It's kind of funny to 1929 01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:18,880 Speaker 1: look at the It's kind of funny to look at 1930 01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:21,200 Speaker 1: the list. I can't remember where I encountered it in there, 1931 01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,599 Speaker 1: so so looking at breaking it down, like you said, 1932 01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,840 Speaker 1: the metrics, breaking down the stats um in six years 1933 01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:34,840 Speaker 1: between and the end of our team destroyed three million 1934 01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:39,120 Speaker 1: of the of the contaminated marijuana plants, all carbo fuen contaminated. 1935 01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:42,200 Speaker 1: It's three million plants, three million plants that would have 1936 01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:45,080 Speaker 1: hit that black market. And then we uh, then we 1937 01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:48,120 Speaker 1: destroyed almost fifty nine thousand, or twenty nine tons of 1938 01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,280 Speaker 1: process marijuana. And that's the stuff in the one pound 1939 01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,280 Speaker 1: bags with all the poisons on it about to go 1940 01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:54,920 Speaker 1: back east or you know, be sold in the black market. 1941 01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,280 Speaker 1: I've forgotten it was that high. Actually, twenty nine tons 1942 01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:02,519 Speaker 1: daying um, seventy felony arrests and armed gunmen UM seized 1943 01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:05,519 Speaker 1: six one firearms during those missions, and I'm sure we 1944 01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:08,640 Speaker 1: didn't get them all. That's a pretty significant almost a 1945 01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,920 Speaker 1: thousand felony arrests, almost as south yet almost just under 1946 01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,000 Speaker 1: a thousand felony arrests. And you know, our our dogs 1947 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:15,960 Speaker 1: were a big part of that making that happen that 1948 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:17,840 Speaker 1: Are there a lot of the same individuals that are 1949 01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:19,960 Speaker 1: rolled up in there. Are you guys pretty successful at 1950 01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:23,360 Speaker 1: prosecuting people, Well, we're successful at prosecuting him. Now when 1951 01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:25,439 Speaker 1: we get the environmental crime Enhancement's keep in mind when 1952 01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:28,640 Speaker 1: it went felonyto misdemeanor once legality started in California and 1953 01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:32,760 Speaker 1: miss ametar to infraction, very few d a's offices would 1954 01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,479 Speaker 1: even prosecute these on the local level because they wouldn't 1955 01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:37,800 Speaker 1: get a jury on a marijuana case and take those 1956 01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,960 Speaker 1: risks and and you know, convictim. They didn't want to 1957 01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,519 Speaker 1: do that, but we would say, wait a minute, you 1958 01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,280 Speaker 1: know they were within a hundred fifty feet of a stream, 1959 01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:49,040 Speaker 1: or they were using a band poison and I'm glad 1960 01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:52,560 Speaker 1: you Brobably they overstayed their fourteen day federal camping limit exactly, 1961 01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:54,760 Speaker 1: so let's make it a felony again. But Steve, the 1962 01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,160 Speaker 1: thing that you just you just triggered, which is great, 1963 01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:59,880 Speaker 1: that I forgot to mention, is that band toxic poi 1964 01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:02,120 Speaker 1: and as a felony in the California Peano coade is 1965 01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:04,519 Speaker 1: one example. So even to possess it now it becomes 1966 01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,720 Speaker 1: a felony. If they divert a waterway, if they you know, 1967 01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,360 Speaker 1: block up a creek, if they alter a stream bed, 1968 01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:13,920 Speaker 1: all that becomes a felony enhancement. So that's how we're 1969 01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:17,600 Speaker 1: starting to get prosecutions even after regulation is working. But 1970 01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:19,679 Speaker 1: we had a yeah, we had six hundred one firearms 1971 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:23,160 Speaker 1: UM four and fifty tons of just general gross site trash. 1972 01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:27,360 Speaker 1: And that's that's one team at twelve not getting everything, 1973 01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:29,599 Speaker 1: and a bunch of other teams that have done other work, 1974 01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:34,559 Speaker 1: other good work that hasn't even been food packaging, propane cans, 1975 01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:39,360 Speaker 1: toilet excrement in the creeks, trash, dumps. And if we 1976 01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:41,240 Speaker 1: haven't got it in one year, imagine five years of 1977 01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:43,240 Speaker 1: that with guys living out their freight month straight. It's 1978 01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,680 Speaker 1: it's a train wreck. They must have to start to 1979 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,960 Speaker 1: hide the trash. After a while they try to. They 1980 01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,960 Speaker 1: actually dig big like compos you know, like like landfill holes, 1981 01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:53,960 Speaker 1: and we'll go out and see him, and we'll do 1982 01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:55,560 Speaker 1: a reclamation and clean up one, and then all of 1983 01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:57,720 Speaker 1: a sudden there's another layer and another layer. And the 1984 01:28:57,760 --> 01:28:59,439 Speaker 1: worst part about it, you brought up a good point 1985 01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:02,040 Speaker 1: is they'll they'll have these holes that are like almost 1986 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:05,120 Speaker 1: twenty ft deep for the next grow site the next year, 1987 01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:07,680 Speaker 1: for their trash or for a water catchment, and they 1988 01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,920 Speaker 1: don't cover it up, so animals are coming in and 1989 01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,920 Speaker 1: deer slipping into it and going to their death. We're 1990 01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:13,799 Speaker 1: walking in. We could walk into one on a scout. 1991 01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,360 Speaker 1: So you have that besides the pungee pits and you 1992 01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:19,200 Speaker 1: know the little little trail things. And something listeners especially 1993 01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:21,840 Speaker 1: should know about is good. But um, yeah, four and 1994 01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,600 Speaker 1: fifty tons of just general grow site waste, and you 1995 01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:28,120 Speaker 1: talk about polly pipe, guys, before two point three five 1996 01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,440 Speaker 1: million feet or four d forty five miles of black polypipe. 1997 01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's more about polly pipe. Yeah, that's a 1998 01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:37,320 Speaker 1: one inch line. That's how much of that crap we 1999 01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:42,519 Speaker 1: took out. Four five So that's one tip of Montana 2000 01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,360 Speaker 1: to the other far corner of Montana. That's the whole 2001 01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,600 Speaker 1: stretch of californa half of California. It's crazy. Um. And 2002 01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:52,000 Speaker 1: then and then forty six tons of fertilizers, seven fifty 2003 01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:56,040 Speaker 1: gallons of the illegal toxic chemicals the yea seven yeah, 2004 01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:59,160 Speaker 1: and then seven three. This is the one that UM, 2005 01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:02,200 Speaker 1: this had I think is one that's underlooked, and it's 2006 01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:05,120 Speaker 1: important because every time we take out a water diversion, 2007 01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,360 Speaker 1: just think what that water diversion was due. And it 2008 01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:10,080 Speaker 1: wasn't only blocking water for everything downstream that you survived, 2009 01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:12,680 Speaker 1: mostly our wildlife or our drinking water, but it was 2010 01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,760 Speaker 1: also poison in the water to the grow site. And 2011 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,960 Speaker 1: what was you know ingesting that all that wildlife. So 2012 01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:25,320 Speaker 1: and that's basically seven water dams we dismantled in that time, 2013 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,160 Speaker 1: and there's a lot more out there. So UM and 2014 01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:30,799 Speaker 1: then those dams, when you look at the number amount 2015 01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:33,280 Speaker 1: of water they would steal, and we didn't know how 2016 01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:36,080 Speaker 1: much water was really being impacted. California was in their 2017 01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:40,640 Speaker 1: most severe drought in a century between about twenty thirteen 2018 01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:46,479 Speaker 1: and about remember that, and the whole country was taken notice. Yeah, 2019 01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:48,000 Speaker 1: and it was. It was just really dry. And so 2020 01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:51,400 Speaker 1: all the cartel grow sites, like in the traditional mountains 2021 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:54,240 Speaker 1: of northern California Silicon Valley, it just wasn't happening. They 2022 01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:56,000 Speaker 1: couldn't even get underground water. So they were like in 2023 01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:58,600 Speaker 1: the Delta, they were doing stuff in weird places. But 2024 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:02,400 Speaker 1: the science finally came out and we just and we 2025 01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:04,679 Speaker 1: were able to learn that an hot aird outdoor grow 2026 01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:08,840 Speaker 1: each plant takes between ten and twelve gallons of water 2027 01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:13,439 Speaker 1: per day stolen for up to ninety days before it's harvested. 2028 01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:16,040 Speaker 1: So when you do all the on ten thousand plant 2029 01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,560 Speaker 1: grow for ninety days ten to twelve gallons, you know 2030 01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:21,800 Speaker 1: a plant. How many millions and hundreds of millions of 2031 01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:23,720 Speaker 1: gallons of our water was being stolen in our worst 2032 01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:25,599 Speaker 1: drout would take us to ab at it. We did. 2033 01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,640 Speaker 1: We actually calculated it, and the dams that we dismantled 2034 01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:32,519 Speaker 1: were responsible for twelve billion gallons of water conservative estimate, 2035 01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,559 Speaker 1: that was pulled out of its natural course of its 2036 01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:38,680 Speaker 1: natural course whether it was drinking, wildlife, habitat, whatever, and 2037 01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,120 Speaker 1: that was very conserved because that doesn't take into account 2038 01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:44,760 Speaker 1: any of the private land grows that were quasi legal 2039 01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:46,519 Speaker 1: or maybe not legal at the time, and people were 2040 01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:48,720 Speaker 1: doing it wrong, maybe diverting their own water, but not 2041 01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:51,920 Speaker 1: a cartel public land trespassing. So that really got the 2042 01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,160 Speaker 1: governor's attention, and that's when we started to get teams 2043 01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:56,519 Speaker 1: for watershed enforcement and stuff like that. So yeah, in 2044 01:31:56,560 --> 01:32:00,240 Speaker 1: the West, right fight over water exactly. I'm quote like that. 2045 01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:02,760 Speaker 1: That's it. I call water is life. I mean, it's 2046 01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:05,000 Speaker 1: it's gold. You know, it's more precious than gold in 2047 01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:08,200 Speaker 1: states and so pristine states like we have here in 2048 01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:11,600 Speaker 1: in true you know, public land Mecca of Montana. I 2049 01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:13,200 Speaker 1: always keep an eye out for this stuff and that 2050 01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:15,519 Speaker 1: it's been in this state before, not as much fortunately 2051 01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,439 Speaker 1: because of the terrain, but um, the Mountain states will 2052 01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:20,559 Speaker 1: get it and they have and it's it's just something 2053 01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,000 Speaker 1: we got good enough environment to grow here. It is, 2054 01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,240 Speaker 1: but it's a very short summer the grow the grow 2055 01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:30,080 Speaker 1: window is really tight, really tight, so it doesn't happen often. 2056 01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:32,320 Speaker 1: But up here we get a little bit of that, 2057 01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:34,360 Speaker 1: but we get a lot of the methamphetam in the 2058 01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:35,960 Speaker 1: fat in al and we certainly always have the gun 2059 01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:38,840 Speaker 1: running and trafficking because that's in every state these same groups. 2060 01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:41,719 Speaker 1: We gotta remember, guys, is you know, the poison, cannabis 2061 01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:43,840 Speaker 1: production and all the drama my team focused on is 2062 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,719 Speaker 1: a kind of a focused mission. That's only one element 2063 01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:48,880 Speaker 1: of what these groups do. They're doing all kinds of stuff. 2064 01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,120 Speaker 1: They're on the same organization, and you know, when they're 2065 01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:52,880 Speaker 1: not growing weed in the summer, they're cook a meth 2066 01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:55,639 Speaker 1: in the winter, they're doing fat in al, they're running guns. 2067 01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:57,880 Speaker 1: And something people don't understand, and I didn't know this 2068 01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:00,080 Speaker 1: until towards the end of my career and we are 2069 01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:04,200 Speaker 1: really in bed in intel circles, was that of all 2070 01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:07,000 Speaker 1: the hundreds of millions of dollars of profit these cannabis growers, 2071 01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:10,800 Speaker 1: these cartel guys make a third or more of those 2072 01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:13,679 Speaker 1: profits go just two guns and ammunition stolen in America 2073 01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:16,439 Speaker 1: to fight the cartel wars south of the border because 2074 01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:17,800 Speaker 1: they don't have the EMMA and they don't have the 2075 01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,840 Speaker 1: infrastructure for weapons, and down there they're at full on 2076 01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:23,880 Speaker 1: war because it's it's you know, it's wild West hands 2077 01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:25,960 Speaker 1: off up here. Fortunately, they want to play nice. They 2078 01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:28,599 Speaker 1: want to draw attention and you have you know, law 2079 01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,920 Speaker 1: enforcement or public outrest. And the other thing is they 2080 01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:32,479 Speaker 1: want to keep it as quite as possible because it's 2081 01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:34,680 Speaker 1: gonna hurt business. Hence one of the reasons we name 2082 01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:36,439 Speaker 1: the book hid More. You know, it's just one of 2083 01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:37,960 Speaker 1: these things. Let's try to keep it under the weight 2084 01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:41,280 Speaker 1: our domestic eco terrorism thing, if you will. And I'm 2085 01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:42,880 Speaker 1: glad we're not having that here. Our job to be 2086 01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:45,080 Speaker 1: a lot different. But um, a lot of that is 2087 01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:46,960 Speaker 1: going into guns and going down south of the border. 2088 01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:50,679 Speaker 1: So um, kind of a little uh eye opening fact there. Okay, 2089 01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:55,679 Speaker 1: so uh tell people real quick. We've talked about hidding 2090 01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:57,479 Speaker 1: war a couple of times. But but but talking about 2091 01:33:57,640 --> 01:33:59,120 Speaker 1: plug both of your books in the best way for 2092 01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:01,160 Speaker 1: people to find you if I don't know how much 2093 01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:03,000 Speaker 1: you want to be found, But well, at least you 2094 01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:06,240 Speaker 1: can plug yourself, plug yourself, all right, basically whatever degree 2095 01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:08,560 Speaker 1: you're comfortable, no, no problem. You can get copies of 2096 01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:10,600 Speaker 1: hitting More, that's the newest book, and you can go 2097 01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,160 Speaker 1: back and get the old one, the first one, or 2098 01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:16,120 Speaker 1: in the Woods on Amazon. Um, there's an audio book 2099 01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:17,880 Speaker 1: out I'm gonna be doing an audio read. Well. The 2100 01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:21,840 Speaker 1: audio book will be read in August. It's on Kendall UM. 2101 01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:23,680 Speaker 1: You can get it through Amazon, Barnes and Noble, any 2102 01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,599 Speaker 1: major bookstore. You can also get it through me if 2103 01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:28,320 Speaker 1: you want you through. If you want a personalized copy, 2104 01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:30,640 Speaker 1: I work that out, you know, through my email, and 2105 01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:32,360 Speaker 1: you just get me on John Norris dot com, on 2106 01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,120 Speaker 1: my website and on Instagram Facebook and O R E 2107 01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:36,880 Speaker 1: S j O h N N O R E s 2108 01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:39,800 Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook and the website, So real easy. And 2109 01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:42,960 Speaker 1: I encourage feedback questions, you know. I try to answer 2110 01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,680 Speaker 1: all the questions I can and UM educate because we 2111 01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:47,519 Speaker 1: we were getting a lot of public awareness. Now now 2112 01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:50,000 Speaker 1: that I'm retired and out of California, it's kind of 2113 01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:52,120 Speaker 1: cool to be going more on a national level and 2114 01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:55,360 Speaker 1: presenting on the book, doing signings, doing presentations to this 2115 01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:57,720 Speaker 1: stuff with some pictures and video, and just sharing some 2116 01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:00,880 Speaker 1: stories that everybody seems to resonate with rather conservations or not. 2117 01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:02,920 Speaker 1: You know, kind of a unified front. So I just 2118 01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:05,920 Speaker 1: appreciate you guys. One. I love the work you guys do, 2119 01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,800 Speaker 1: love what you stand for. UM fan, myself, my team members, 2120 01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:11,600 Speaker 1: are all fans, so they're really excited to hear this, 2121 01:35:12,479 --> 01:35:14,280 Speaker 1: and thanks for spreading the word. It goes a long way, 2122 01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:16,639 Speaker 1: and we are one big team here, you know, trying 2123 01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:18,680 Speaker 1: to protect our wildlife, waterways and wild lands, and you 2124 01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:20,280 Speaker 1: guys are stewards of it at the top level. I 2125 01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:22,800 Speaker 1: appreciate it. I didn't ask you if you got you 2126 01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:27,880 Speaker 1: got your final conclude you're saying thank you, great questions. Guys. 2127 01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:36,519 Speaker 1: He's gotta go check on as illegal grow on Joe's joke. Um, yeah, 2128 01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:39,960 Speaker 1: I think I got anything more anything open book. I'll 2129 01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,200 Speaker 1: share what I can. Yeah, thanks for coming on. And 2130 01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:45,760 Speaker 1: it's like, uh yeah, I'm glad you guys. You know, 2131 01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:48,479 Speaker 1: I'm glad you guys are out there and it's interesting. 2132 01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:51,040 Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest, like my concluder is um, 2133 01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:56,479 Speaker 1: I don't think people realize the complexity of game Warden life. 2134 01:35:57,080 --> 01:36:00,439 Speaker 1: That's it like growing up man, Yeah, hand I was 2135 01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:04,000 Speaker 1: like everyways, just like you know, you didn't talk fondly 2136 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:06,320 Speaker 1: of the game Warden. Yeah, it's like he's we gotta 2137 01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:08,439 Speaker 1: watch our back, I gotta watch over back. He's you know, 2138 01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:10,800 Speaker 1: he's on her, but he's always suspecting us. I know, 2139 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:12,720 Speaker 1: I didn't have that fear because I never met one, 2140 01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,160 Speaker 1: but everybody else it was the same thing. And then 2141 01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:17,000 Speaker 1: once you get to your point in life or you're 2142 01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,599 Speaker 1: not where you haven't recently broken a law, you start. 2143 01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:21,559 Speaker 1: Now I see a game ward and I'm like, hey, hey, 2144 01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:24,559 Speaker 1: I'm your buddy, because yeah, we all went through those moments. 2145 01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:28,280 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say, yeah, I didn't know what I 2146 01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:31,880 Speaker 1: was doing. The game warden get that first Crossman seven sixty, 2147 01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:33,760 Speaker 1: and you know, you're on every Blackbird Hunt and whatever 2148 01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:36,240 Speaker 1: else you can. You're like, oh, there there's really a limit. 2149 01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:38,799 Speaker 1: There's an on game. Oh okay, yeah, you know bad stuff, 2150 01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:40,960 Speaker 1: but um but no it is. And that's I really 2151 01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:42,960 Speaker 1: appreciate you seeing that, Steve, because that's the thing. The 2152 01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:45,200 Speaker 1: whole thing now for me is like we said before, 2153 01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:49,400 Speaker 1: is don't you know, don't simplify what game wardens do. 2154 01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:52,280 Speaker 1: You know, they're legitimate law enforcement officers no matter what 2155 01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:54,680 Speaker 1: state they're from. They're highly trained, and they're out there 2156 01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:56,639 Speaker 1: by themselves, you know, And it was it was hard 2157 01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:59,799 Speaker 1: enough to deal with a poacher with a felony warrant 2158 01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:01,479 Speaker 1: or or you know, a guy that could get really 2159 01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:03,880 Speaker 1: violent on you. You know, we a lot of fugitive recovery, 2160 01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,240 Speaker 1: your guys hiding out in wild lands. That's where you know, 2161 01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:08,160 Speaker 1: these guys that need to stay off the grid, not 2162 01:37:08,240 --> 01:37:10,560 Speaker 1: to go back to prisons, and not to mention that 2163 01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:12,360 Speaker 1: most of the people you go and talk to are 2164 01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:15,360 Speaker 1: probably already toting a gun, already going a gun. The 2165 01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:17,600 Speaker 1: flip side of it, you gotta run a lot of 2166 01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:20,200 Speaker 1: math in your head, right, you got to. When I 2167 01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:22,320 Speaker 1: was doing all the traditional stuff for the majority of 2168 01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:24,559 Speaker 1: my career, the cool thing was is that I knew 2169 01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:28,479 Speaker 1: the guys I was contacting. They were cool. You know, 2170 01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:30,519 Speaker 1: they might help. Can we check? I want to check, Hey, 2171 01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:31,680 Speaker 1: what do you want? That's why I feel like it's 2172 01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:33,680 Speaker 1: helpful to have game wardens, and I know a lot 2173 01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:35,479 Speaker 1: of them do. It's helpful to have game wardens that 2174 01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:38,479 Speaker 1: come out of a hunting and fishing background. Thank you, 2175 01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:40,519 Speaker 1: because thank you for saying. But you know what I'm saying, 2176 01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:42,120 Speaker 1: just to sort of have a sense of having to 2177 01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:44,479 Speaker 1: read on people because people that are gonna be It's 2178 01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:46,640 Speaker 1: like people that have this thing where there's suspicious as 2179 01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:48,479 Speaker 1: someone like, well, why does he need a gun? Right 2180 01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:50,400 Speaker 1: for something like that's not the right attitude to have. 2181 01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:52,920 Speaker 1: You gotta kind of know who you're dealing with. And 2182 01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:54,960 Speaker 1: I think I feel that would be a major advantage. 2183 01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:56,599 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's the only way, the only path, 2184 01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:59,080 Speaker 1: but I feel a major advantage would be having people 2185 01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:03,640 Speaker 1: who understand culturally the groups of individuals they're likely to 2186 01:38:03,680 --> 01:38:07,519 Speaker 1: be policing in order to make those those really those 2187 01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:10,880 Speaker 1: judgment decisions that you can't explain, and teach someone about 2188 01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:14,479 Speaker 1: how to read a situation, reading a person's intents right 2189 01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,080 Speaker 1: where someone could walk into it and get a really 2190 01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:21,120 Speaker 1: wrong impression of what's going on, or adversely miss things 2191 01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,000 Speaker 1: that they that someone else would have picked up on. Yeah, 2192 01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:26,200 Speaker 1: that you hit it on the head. Haven't known the culture. 2193 01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:27,800 Speaker 1: And that's what we've seen, right, most of us, at 2194 01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:29,760 Speaker 1: least from my academy. I'm a dinosaur, you know. When 2195 01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:31,400 Speaker 1: I you know, going back to like the early nineties 2196 01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:34,360 Speaker 1: when I started, we all grew up handloading, you know, 2197 01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:36,599 Speaker 1: we learned how to use a rifle early. We were 2198 01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,280 Speaker 1: taught at the respect of it, very comfortable around firearms 2199 01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:41,559 Speaker 1: like you, like all of us, you know, and um, 2200 01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:43,679 Speaker 1: then as we started to get to the latter generations 2201 01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:45,880 Speaker 1: of game, Warden's coming in the last ten years, and 2202 01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:47,560 Speaker 1: I was you know, I taught at the Academy a 2203 01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:49,759 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of subjects and been an instructor 2204 01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:52,400 Speaker 1: in my whole career, and you know, we would get 2205 01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:55,479 Speaker 1: people coming into the job, these young you know, college 2206 01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:58,240 Speaker 1: kids that have how many of you guys hunt? Two 2207 01:38:58,280 --> 01:39:01,320 Speaker 1: hands go up at a forty cadets. I'm like, okay, 2208 01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:02,960 Speaker 1: how many of you have done a lot of shooting 2209 01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:06,120 Speaker 1: with a rifle, and like six hands go up, like wow. 2210 01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:08,240 Speaker 1: So we're going to teach people to shoot weapons in this. 2211 01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:10,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna get them qualified, and then we're gonna have 2212 01:39:10,280 --> 01:39:12,880 Speaker 1: to get them comfortable. Like like you just said, Steve, Hey, 2213 01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:14,600 Speaker 1: if I didn't have that background that we all have, 2214 01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:16,400 Speaker 1: going up to a guy with a gun, even that's 2215 01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:18,400 Speaker 1: a cool sportsman, Hey, how you doing and that rifle 2216 01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:20,880 Speaker 1: comes out? I mean, that's an O crap moment. And 2217 01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,920 Speaker 1: training past that to get the comfort level. It really 2218 01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:26,000 Speaker 1: is an upward It's a learning curve that is so 2219 01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:30,240 Speaker 1: steep compared to the traditional guys you know that have 2220 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:32,000 Speaker 1: been on it and gals that have done it for 2221 01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,599 Speaker 1: a long time. So it definitely helps and it keeps 2222 01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:37,280 Speaker 1: you know that one Warden, no matter how much experience 2223 01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:39,280 Speaker 1: they have in the field because of their background from 2224 01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:43,000 Speaker 1: overreacting or in some cases underreacting. Because you're right, it's 2225 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:44,360 Speaker 1: a good judge of character. I mean, you know from 2226 01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:47,200 Speaker 1: your experience how easy it is to see someone that's 2227 01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,479 Speaker 1: really what we call hanky with a weapon or really relaxed, 2228 01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:52,400 Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, it's another buddy hunter. We're on 2229 01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:54,240 Speaker 1: the range site and this guy is not a threat. 2230 01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:57,080 Speaker 1: But it's that fine line. So yeah, it's it's it's 2231 01:39:57,080 --> 01:40:00,519 Speaker 1: a tough game. Well, thanks again for I'm not Man. 2232 01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:02,599 Speaker 1: Thanks to help people go find your book. It's pretty 2233 01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:05,880 Speaker 1: interesting read, and especially that you know people from other 2234 01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:07,840 Speaker 1: states are just beginning to deal with this. I'm guessing 2235 01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:10,240 Speaker 1: the problem is not going to go away. Um. Unfortunately, 2236 01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:11,880 Speaker 1: it's not going to go away. And I mean there's 2237 01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,519 Speaker 1: all kinds of debates on you know, do we legalize nationally, 2238 01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:16,280 Speaker 1: do we do this? Do we do that? In In 2239 01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:19,559 Speaker 1: chapter ten, I go into not so much solutions because 2240 01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:22,240 Speaker 1: there are no easy solutions, but things to consider coming 2241 01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:25,120 Speaker 1: from a state that is a heavy cannabis state on 2242 01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:28,719 Speaker 1: the legitimate and also the dark side, um, and looking 2243 01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:30,559 Speaker 1: at what has worked and hasn't worked. And looking at 2244 01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:32,519 Speaker 1: our you know, our home state now in Montana, what's 2245 01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:34,560 Speaker 1: working and not work Colorado some others, you know, like 2246 01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:37,400 Speaker 1: maybe some you're probably experiences like what you got back 2247 01:40:37,439 --> 01:40:41,240 Speaker 1: in Michigan. Um. I think legislatively, we need to really 2248 01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:42,800 Speaker 1: think that if we're going to regulate, we gotta let 2249 01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:44,960 Speaker 1: regulate right. And one thing I can say that I 2250 01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:46,760 Speaker 1: get into in this book a little bit without giving 2251 01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:49,880 Speaker 1: it all the way is don't go easier on these 2252 01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,960 Speaker 1: public land trespass cartel foreign growers. Let's go harder, you know, 2253 01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:56,639 Speaker 1: because there's gonna be tax money. There's gonna be funding 2254 01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:59,799 Speaker 1: coming in millions and millions of dollars now from legitimate 2255 01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,800 Speaker 1: anibus that are now paying into the government pot that 2256 01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:04,839 Speaker 1: really needs to go back to this stuff. In California, 2257 01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:08,280 Speaker 1: we're supposed to start seeing those proceeds actually this year 2258 01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:12,240 Speaker 1: from legality that started two years ago. So where we 2259 01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:15,800 Speaker 1: were millions of dollars short and only able to reclamatecent 2260 01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:18,519 Speaker 1: of all the growth sites we went and start to finish. Now, 2261 01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:20,400 Speaker 1: maybe we can get to that d percent mark. Maybe 2262 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:22,840 Speaker 1: we can put double the amount of officers on doing 2263 01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:26,600 Speaker 1: reclamation education and UH and just spread the word. So 2264 01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:28,479 Speaker 1: I think we need to learn from our mistakes and 2265 01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:32,000 Speaker 1: and not be you know, so cocky in our position 2266 01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:34,519 Speaker 1: that we're not making mistakes. Hey, we made a lot 2267 01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,200 Speaker 1: of mistakes before we formed this team. We made mistakes 2268 01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:39,280 Speaker 1: as we formed this team, and we were you know, 2269 01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:40,880 Speaker 1: there are a lot of things we could have done differently, 2270 01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:42,760 Speaker 1: and that's one of the things. When we formed MET 2271 01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:45,120 Speaker 1: as well as when we do legality. They're almost kind 2272 01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:48,320 Speaker 1: of two parallel courses. Let's just try to fail forward, 2273 01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:50,120 Speaker 1: you know. And one thing I'm doing now and my 2274 01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:54,760 Speaker 1: teammates back in California are we become very effective specialized, 2275 01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:57,720 Speaker 1: UM diversified. But the cool thing about you know, being 2276 01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:00,360 Speaker 1: more successful would be more effective environmentally, which is great. 2277 01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:03,920 Speaker 1: But of what I was mandated to do as a 2278 01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:06,640 Speaker 1: lieutenant and team leader of the unit was outreach. So 2279 01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:08,800 Speaker 1: it was to do interviews, it was to do podcasts, 2280 01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:10,280 Speaker 1: it was to you know, if we had to do 2281 01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:14,479 Speaker 1: TV documentaries, investigative news, things like wild Justice. You know, 2282 01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,479 Speaker 1: certainly there were parameters that I could work within UM. 2283 01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:20,040 Speaker 1: And I think being retired, I'm glad I met you 2284 01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:22,120 Speaker 1: guys now and not then, because we can talk a 2285 01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:26,160 Speaker 1: little more freely, not to discredit anything, but get down 2286 01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:28,400 Speaker 1: to the raw real answers. You know of what's working 2287 01:42:28,439 --> 01:42:30,200 Speaker 1: and I think and what we discussed today, and you 2288 01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:33,120 Speaker 1: guys amazing questions. Thank you for those questions. I think 2289 01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:34,560 Speaker 1: we've kind of broke a lot of that down and 2290 01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:37,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of fired up. You know, outdoorsmen 2291 01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:39,680 Speaker 1: and women are gonna gonna think a lot about it, 2292 01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:41,920 Speaker 1: and I know appreciate any input you guys, how are 2293 01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:44,479 Speaker 1: your listeners do? Yeah? Thanks man, Thanks again for coming 2294 01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:46,559 Speaker 1: on until we can talk all day. But we asked 2295 01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:50,000 Speaker 1: a really interesting idea of widening that discrepancy between the 2296 01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:52,080 Speaker 1: right way to produce the product and the wrong way. 2297 01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:58,439 Speaker 1: But again, we could talk all day. Concluded, you guys 2298 01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:00,400 Speaker 1: might want to hook up with on at and do 2299 01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:05,000 Speaker 1: like a historical growth site layer because those would be 2300 01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:07,400 Speaker 1: some good hunting spots here soon. That would be good 2301 01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:09,800 Speaker 1: right across the parking lot. You can go ahead over 2302 01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:13,240 Speaker 1: their next Okay, no hundreds had found him for six years. 2303 01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:15,200 Speaker 1: Get that referral from the meat Eator team and I 2304 01:43:15,280 --> 01:43:16,559 Speaker 1: might get in the door. They have to work up 2305 01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:20,040 Speaker 1: a new icon. I know what it will be. I 2306 01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:22,080 Speaker 1: know what it will be. There's one in your book. 2307 01:43:22,520 --> 01:43:26,280 Speaker 1: All right, thanks John Norris. Uh is that a John 2308 01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:29,840 Speaker 1: Norris Jr. I'm a junior. Yeah, there you go. All right, 2309 01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:55,040 Speaker 1: thank you very much. Thanks guys, Okay everyone, thanks for listening. Again. 2310 01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:57,240 Speaker 1: And if I said it once, I said a thousand times. 2311 01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:00,599 Speaker 1: Please go check out our feature length doc mentory about 2312 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:04,880 Speaker 1: hunting in America today called Stars in the Sky. You 2313 01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:08,639 Speaker 1: can find it at Stars in the Sky film dot com. 2314 01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:12,680 Speaker 1: It is available for streaming and download. Again, do us 2315 01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:16,080 Speaker 1: yourself a good turn, do us a good turn Stars 2316 01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:18,920 Speaker 1: in the Sky. Find it at Stars in the Sky 2317 01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:22,720 Speaker 1: film dot com. You can stream it, you can download it, 2318 01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:25,800 Speaker 1: and you can watch it again and again. Thank you.