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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. You know, not only does David Desmalchen get

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Speaker 1: to be in Blade Runner part of that franchise, but

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Speaker 1: also in the new remake of Dune, which is pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, you just you're you're on far Man,

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Speaker 1: You've got cool stuff coming up. But let's go back

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Speaker 1: because when you were on last time, you told us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about and I saw you on the

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Speaker 1: way with with Kevin Smith. It was a really good interview.

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Speaker 1: Really enjoyed that. But this is really key because you

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Speaker 1: had you had you told us, quite honestly about some

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Speaker 1: years where you spent a lot of time addicted to drugs.

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Speaker 1: You were still functional, you were out making money, like

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Speaker 1: on a fishing boat in one of the freezing waters

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Speaker 1: off Alaska, and you were still trying to get your

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Speaker 1: life back together again. So how did you end up

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Speaker 1: making that transition back into where you were gone from

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Speaker 1: sleeping in your car to being in the back of

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Speaker 1: that ambulance. Well, it's interesting. Today is May the ninth,

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Speaker 1: where you are correct, it's almost May the ninth where

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Speaker 1: I am, and May the tents will be my birthday,

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Speaker 1: my born again. Birthday eighteen years ago is the last

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Speaker 1: time that I used. I've been clean and sober now

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Speaker 1: for eighteen years, but at that moment, I was nearly

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Speaker 1: lost my life to a battle with heroin addiction and

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Speaker 1: opiate abuse. And I was I was, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as as as we discuss in recovery and in the

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Speaker 1: world of addiction, I'm sure everyone listening is moot this

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Speaker 1: term people reached their bottom. You know. I'd reached the

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Speaker 1: bottom of a well, and then I'd taken a drill

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Speaker 1: out and dug much lower, and I was left in

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Speaker 1: a car. I shoplifted and done all number of drug

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Speaker 1: dealing in crimes to support my habit, including lyne to

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Speaker 1: my family, stealing from people that I loved, breaking all

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Speaker 1: the trust in the world. And you know, nobody could

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Speaker 1: rely on me after years of this, you know behavior,

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Speaker 1: and I um and I had slept in my car

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Speaker 1: for the better part of a year and a half,

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Speaker 1: including through the alleys of Chicago and elsewhere. But I

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Speaker 1: I found myself when I finally had the miracle of recovery,

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Speaker 1: and I I mean I was on the edge. I

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Speaker 1: was like literally, you know, I could feel I could

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Speaker 1: feel the other side, you know, the night that my

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Speaker 1: life was saved and I came back to life. And

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Speaker 1: then it was a long journey and it takes it takes,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of practice, learning how to live

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Speaker 1: your life without these without these things that you know

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Speaker 1: have gotten you through. And so I spent about five

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Speaker 1: years in Chicago just working a day, you know, a

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Speaker 1: job in telemarketing and sales, and I was working at

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Speaker 1: a movie theater and I and I and I and

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Speaker 1: I had the opportunity because I had had a life

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Speaker 1: in the theater before my bottom had dropped out as

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Speaker 1: an addict, and some dear friends who are very talented

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Speaker 1: theater directors really encouraged me to get back up on

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Speaker 1: the boards. And I always felt that being a storyteller

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Speaker 1: was my calling. I just didn't know if I'd ever

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Speaker 1: get to do it again as an actor. I was

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Speaker 1: always hoping at least I would get to write or

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Speaker 1: write poems or you know, somehow learn how to write

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Speaker 1: screenplays or plays. And then I had this chance to

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Speaker 1: get back on stage and I did it. And then

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Speaker 1: next thing I knew, a casting director saw a play

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Speaker 1: that I was in that I had good reviews, and

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Speaker 1: I got brought in for an audition for a commercial,

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Speaker 1: which I booked and started making money as an actor.

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Speaker 1: And then what was the commercial for? Was it a

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Speaker 1: Chicago commercials Singular Wireless at the time, then became AT

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Speaker 1: and T. They had a drop call campaign, which this

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Speaker 1: is amazing. I never really worked on camera before, and

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Speaker 1: I get cast in this commercial which turned into thirty

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Speaker 1: or which turned into just It was a very very

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Speaker 1: popular commercial where I'm on the phone with my father

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Speaker 1: in law. The call drops and I think that he's mad,

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Speaker 1: and actually he's laughing at my job, and I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: jim Jimbo, jimmy boys. I remember this very popular commercial

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Speaker 1: paid me well. I was all like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: so here I was at that point, six seven years clean,

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Speaker 1: and finally I'm like, god, it's it's all these promises,

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Speaker 1: you know that, the promise of recovery, the promise of

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Speaker 1: a new life. The promise isn't this guarantee that you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have some kind of financial success or even that

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Speaker 1: your career dreams are going to come true. But you

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Speaker 1: will live the life that I believe you were intended

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Speaker 1: to live when you if you can free yourself, so

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Speaker 1: anybody listening out there doesn't think that it's possible. I

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Speaker 1: promise you there is no one that thought it was

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Speaker 1: less possible than me. And then it it really did happen.

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Speaker 1: I reached out for the help and I went to

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Speaker 1: the meetings and I did the deal and I got

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Speaker 1: there and also had a lot of psych issues that

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Speaker 1: I had to deal with an address and those are

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Speaker 1: something that I'll continue to work on for the rest

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Speaker 1: of my life. But needless to say, I did this

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Speaker 1: commercial and that director of that commercial as a gentleman

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Speaker 1: named Chris Smith, who also directed a film called American Movie,

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Speaker 1: which if you haven't seen it, everyone needs to look

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Speaker 1: up and watch. Genius piece of filmmaking. And he was

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite filmmakers. And he ended up casting

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Speaker 1: me in a bunch of commercials. So I kind of

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Speaker 1: learned a lot of my you know, I learned how

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Speaker 1: to transfer the skills that I'd learned as an actor

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Speaker 1: on stage to the camera by doing these commercials. And

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the word comes out that

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Speaker 1: they're going to be shooting the next Batman film. And

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Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of Batman begins, and I'd

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Speaker 1: become a big devotee of Christopher Nolan's work, and I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: my goodness, God, here is my chance. I'm this lifelong

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Speaker 1: comic book collector. I'm a huge fan of Batman and

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Speaker 1: especially of the Joker, and every actor, especially every character

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Speaker 1: actor in Chicago. And that's all Chicago is as character actors, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you mentioned Sean Gunn earlier, I had

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Speaker 1: been Sean. We studied at the same theater Conservatory back

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Speaker 1: in the day in Chicago, as well as which one

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Speaker 1: DePaul University, which is such an amazing school, and every

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Speaker 1: you know, so many people I look up to in

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Speaker 1: love studied there, from Karl Malden back in the day

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Speaker 1: when it was so called Goodman's School of Drama, to

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Speaker 1: John c Riley, to Judy Greer, Jillian Anderson, PJ. Burr.

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Speaker 1: It's just in a wonderful place anyway. So I get

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Speaker 1: to go to this big casting call and it's the

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Speaker 1: role that I'm told I'm auditioning for is a character

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Speaker 1: named Grumpy. And when I go, I realize everyone there

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Speaker 1: is for the same thing, and this is for that

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Speaker 1: opening heist sequence in the dark Night when the when

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Speaker 1: the Crowns are robbing the bank so I prepare this scene,

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Speaker 1: which is a dummy scene, which means fake scene, you

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Speaker 1: know that they've written just in case it leaks, so

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Speaker 1: people don't know what it's, you know, going to be.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like this was fate. This is meant

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Speaker 1: to be. And I went and the casting director's assistant

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Speaker 1: actually recognized me from the silly commercial that I've been doing. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about you. I want you to

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Speaker 1: meet John passadera who's a very big Hollywood casting director,

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Speaker 1: And he said, nice to meet you, man, and and

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Speaker 1: he he and he said, let me see you're you know,

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Speaker 1: your audition, And then I did my audition and he said,

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Speaker 1: I really love what you're doing. He said, you've got

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Speaker 1: to take all this stuff that you're doing with your body,

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Speaker 1: your voice, your your face and just put it in

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Speaker 1: your eyes. It was such great direction. He said, I

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Speaker 1: want you to meet I want you to meet, you know,

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Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan. I want him to see you read. But

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Speaker 1: you've got to take all the stuff you're doing and

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Speaker 1: put it in your eyes. And that's a big difference

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Speaker 1: between theater acting, where you're trying to make sure you

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Speaker 1: reach the back of the house and work with the camera,

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Speaker 1: so I said. So I went home and I worked

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Speaker 1: on that note and I came back the next day.

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Speaker 1: The next day, it was only me in the lobby.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh boy, And I did get to

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Speaker 1: meet Christopher Nolan. I did this audition, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: I heard that they were shooting that bank HAIs scene

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Speaker 1: a week later, and sure enough they did. And I

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Speaker 1: was devastated because I thought, I can't believe it. That

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be my big chance. But you know

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Speaker 1: what I'd learned in recovery, you take it a day

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Speaker 1: at a time. And I went back to my job,

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Speaker 1: which I had at the time, doing a production of

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Speaker 1: Ocello at a wonderful theater in Chicago. And four months later,

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Speaker 1: Ian four months later, as Othello closes and I have

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Speaker 1: I do what my next job is going to be.

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Speaker 1: I get the call that I get to go be

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Speaker 1: in the Dark Night and I was playing a totally

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Speaker 1: new role that I'd never been told about, and it

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Speaker 1: was actually kept secret to me until I pretty much

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Speaker 1: was filming, and the character had very few lines. But

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Speaker 1: I'd created this whole character based on my history, with

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Speaker 1: an understanding of the Joker and the kinds of people

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Speaker 1: that you know he would have repreted, and it worked

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Speaker 1: so well with what was there in the in the script.

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Speaker 1: And I found myself standing there, you know, in downtown

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Speaker 1: on the South Street with thousands of crew and extras.

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Speaker 1: And I'm standing next to Heath Ledger, who's in his

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Speaker 1: joker makeup. And I look and I look, and I

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Speaker 1: get very emotional and still thinking about this story. And

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Speaker 1: I've told you this before, But I looked down and

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Speaker 1: I'm standing feet away from an alley where I had

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Speaker 1: slept in my car and had been sick and had

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Speaker 1: sweat and had you contemplated the things I needed to

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Speaker 1: do to score, And it was like a whole other

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Speaker 1: life ago. And yet I was looking through the porthole.

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Speaker 1: I was looking through this magic mirror and my past.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at where I was standing in that moment.

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Speaker 1: And I'm telling you again, I just say it, and

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Speaker 1: I'll say it many more times. But anyone who's listening

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Speaker 1: who doesn't believe in the power of miracles, I'm not

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Speaker 1: telling you that water is going to turn into wine,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not telling you if you're paralyzed, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: walk tomorrow. But they are real. And then I and

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Speaker 1: then I'm sitting there doing you know, a scene with

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Speaker 1: this incredible, powerful actor who who just scared the living

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Speaker 1: poop out of me, and it was fantastic and um

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Speaker 1: and it started me on my path and my dream,

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Speaker 1: and I moved to Los Angeles soon after finally had

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Speaker 1: that you know, movie credit in my belt and a

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Speaker 1: great one, you know, and that the whole thing about

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Speaker 1: putting it all in your eyes that really explains why

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Speaker 1: that scene pops, because that's, like I said, you don't

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Speaker 1: have that many lines. The intensity of your face it does,

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Speaker 1: it like completely tells a story. It harkens back to

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Speaker 1: what you would said even earlier in the hour when

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Speaker 1: we were talking about evil, and there was something about

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Speaker 1: that while you look at this and this guy who's

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Speaker 1: just done this horrible thing, you also know he's completely

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Speaker 1: out of his gourd, and so it's hard in some sense,

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Speaker 1: you kind of feel some sympathy that he's been manipulated

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Speaker 1: by the Joker in his insanity, and you've got that

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Speaker 1: all wrapped up in a facial expression. Well, thank you,

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Speaker 1: my friend, and I and I'm so grateful that I had,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and the director he got he's such

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Speaker 1: a fascinating person to be around. But his side coaches

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Speaker 1: you while you're working, and he encourages you. You know,

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Speaker 1: just off he was. He was standing only a few

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Speaker 1: feet away from where we were playing the scene, and

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Speaker 1: he was, you know, incredibly gracious to me, and he

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Speaker 1: treated me like I belonged, even though I was shaking

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Speaker 1: quite literally shies and trembling with nerves and fear. And

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Speaker 1: he definitely made me feel like I belonged. But this,

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Speaker 1: this concept, we could talk about it for a lifetime,

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Speaker 1: but I'm fascinated by the concept of possession, and I

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Speaker 1: am I am interested and fascinated by like you know,

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Speaker 1: age old and mythological and you know, kind of religious

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Speaker 1: connotations around that, but also the idea of of possession

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Speaker 1: when you're thinking about people under you know, um under

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Speaker 1: control of mental illness, the struggle of delusion and who

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Speaker 1: is who is inside of that capsule and who is

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Speaker 1: struggling to get out. And that was the way that

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Speaker 1: I chose to play that character, was this idea that

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Speaker 1: he there was many things he would have said if

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Speaker 1: he had the ability, but because of you know, the

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Speaker 1: issues he was dealing with that were blocking him psychologically,

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Speaker 1: he could just giggle and yeah, and that that's that

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Speaker 1: that terrifies me. And I've been so fortunate my friend too,

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Speaker 1: like play these different roles where you know, someone said

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Speaker 1: to me, oh man, you scared me so bad, and right,

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Speaker 1: prisoners are dark night, and I think those characters are

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Speaker 1: scary for certain, but to me that I it was

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Speaker 1: it was quite sad actually in habiting them because to

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Speaker 1: me they were you know, people that I have empathy for,

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Speaker 1: sympathy for it, and in some part something that you

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Speaker 1: had been in that you had been, you know, to

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Speaker 1: it kind of all sums up in the expression we

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Speaker 1: say somebody has their personal demons and we so isn't

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Speaker 1: really demonic, I don't know. But what it really is

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Speaker 1: so often is when you were talking about the psych

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Speaker 1: issues which you had to overcome, is that when we

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Speaker 1: turn to substances to self medicate, and instead of plowing through,

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Speaker 1: we create these you know, securitius routes to us to

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Speaker 1: a kind of par and it but the par only

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Speaker 1: lasts for a little while and then we're back underneath,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to find our way back up again.

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Speaker 1: And and I never you know, I never experienced any

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Speaker 1: of this personally. But I've been around this my whole life,

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Speaker 1: with so many friends who have been in recovery, and

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Speaker 1: I think that idea of confronting our demons, that's it's

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Speaker 1: the hardest thing that anybody can do. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's this wonderful passage um from the from the Gnostic

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Speaker 1: Gospel of Thomas. It's not obviously canonical, it's not in

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Speaker 1: the Bible, but it's true. And the expression is something

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Speaker 1: which Jesus is quoted as saying, which is bring forth

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Speaker 1: that which is inside you, and it will save you.

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Speaker 1: Don't bring forth that which is inside you and it

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Speaker 1: will kill you. And I think it is never more

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Speaker 1: true than people who have who are using, you know,

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Speaker 1: to try to get around confronting past issues. Absolutely, I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking about that a lot lately. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: it's funny too when you think about all these incredible

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Speaker 1: experiences I have and I'm such at what we call

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Speaker 1: a great philadic and most people I know who are,

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Speaker 1: you know, they talk about their thinking gratitude. There's a

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Speaker 1: there's a phrase in the term that we're all familiar

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Speaker 1: with necessary evil um. And I sometimes think back to

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Speaker 1: some of the places that I had to go or

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Speaker 1: the things that I saw when I was using, or

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Speaker 1: even the the the allure in those beginning few years

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Speaker 1: when using UM wasn't the hell that it became when

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Speaker 1: it was that, you know, you talk about the Timothy

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Speaker 1: Leary stuff and the doors perception and how many doors

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Speaker 1: did I open and things that I saw and connections

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Speaker 1: that I made UM as I started to dance with

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Speaker 1: that fire, and then the fire consumed me, and then

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Speaker 1: it became my way of processing and dealing. But necessary

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Speaker 1: evil is interesting. And the demons, oh man, the battling

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Speaker 1: the demons from within and that shadow person from within,

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Speaker 1: and you think about the you know, concept of it,

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Speaker 1: also think in the supernatural concept of it. And during

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Speaker 1: the time that I mean, my drug of choice during

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Speaker 1: those years when I was hardcore and I was lost

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Speaker 1: UM was heroin. But but I did UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: get caught up in in speed as well, and I

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Speaker 1: was running at one point drugs from Chicago down into

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Speaker 1: the Midwest because you know, heroin sold well, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you could get down to Kansas and Missouri, and

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Speaker 1: then speed, which wasn't as readily available in Chicago, was

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Speaker 1: more valuable there. Now, of course, that seems like on

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Speaker 1: paper a good a good way to you know, keep

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Speaker 1: yourself afloat. Of course I would do all of it

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Speaker 1: on my journey between you know locations, so I never

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Speaker 1: ended up getting my head above water. But um, I

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Speaker 1: grew up, you know, near where you live now. And

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Speaker 1: some of the things that I that I saw out there, man,

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Speaker 1: and and and and late night conversations and thinking back

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Speaker 1: on those, and you know, I have my wife who's

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Speaker 1: never really touched a single drug in her life, you know,

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Speaker 1: will have these conversations. And then the things that I

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Speaker 1: that I saw in experience, where they delusions, where they

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Speaker 1: necessary evils that I need to see, where they I

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Speaker 1: don't know I have. I have a lot of thoughts

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Speaker 1: about the shadow people. And I'm not saying that they

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Speaker 1: only existed around the Midwest and in the Heartland. But

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Speaker 1: what was I seeing? Were I seeing a reflection of

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Speaker 1: myself and that part of myself that had come out,

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Speaker 1: that I had let out that I needed, that was

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Speaker 1: killing me, that I could have killed. You know that

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Speaker 1: that gospel acomically, it's a powerful piece, isn't it. And

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Speaker 1: it's like it, I mean, you can we can debate

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Speaker 1: the original language and what the exact words are. But

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Speaker 1: I think the core of that is so interesting because

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Speaker 1: I believe that speaks to all of us. It speaks

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Speaker 1: to having a happy marriage, It speaks to being happy

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Speaker 1: where you are, and it speaks to having you know,

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Speaker 1: satisfied with your children and being able to relate to

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Speaker 1: them as a parent. And then later on is in

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Speaker 1: some ways an equal. I mean, if we don't get

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Speaker 1: rid of these demons that we all inherit, you know,

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Speaker 1: one way or another, we don't contextualize them, they'll drive

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Speaker 1: us all crazy and then they become infecting around other

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Speaker 1: people as well. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go to

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am dot com for more