1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Crime Round Up. Joshua Schieffer, I gotta tell you, 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: I am so irritated. I'm telling you, I mean, I 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: don't even have anything positive to start with. I try 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: to be a glass half full. But I'm going to 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: tell you something, and I want everybody that is wearing 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: a badge to listen to me right this minute. Ninety 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: nine point nine percent. 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 2: Of the time you need a warrant. 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: Ninety nine zero point nine percent of the time you 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: need a warrant if you are searching a person, their home, 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: their business, or their vehicle. 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: We've made it easy, and we've made it easy. 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 3: Spent the last fifty years figuring out okay lawrants are 14 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 3: now super required. Let's make it real easy to get them. 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 3: And we've done that, and. 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: Let me make it even easier. I'm not an attorney. 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: Listen to me. 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: I am not an attorney, but I got one sitting 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: here with me. It won't hurt your case if you 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: get one and don't need it. No, no, So the 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: question would be to me get one every time? 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: Correct. 23 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 3: There is no downside save exigent circumstances to getting a warrant. 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: Warrants are there as the mandatory bright Line Safety World check. 25 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 3: That is easy for judges to attach to, and they say, 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: all right, here's the stuff that happened when there was 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 3: a warrant. Here's the stuff that happened when there wasn't 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 3: a warrant. It's pretty easy to separate the two buckets. Cheryl, 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 3: You and I know half the damn judges in this town. 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 3: We could get a warrant within a very short period. Literally, 31 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: it's set up to video appear and get a warrant. 32 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:01,639 Speaker 2: Gone. 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: Or the days you had to go search for somebody 34 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: at a bar or restaurant. 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 2: It's all video. It's all electronic. 36 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: They used to hunt judges down in person, just with 37 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 3: the piece of paper. Man, there was an officer whose job. 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: Oh no, I can go find Judge Smith. Let's go 39 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 3: find him. He'll sign this right now. Because warrants now 40 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: are so easy, there is no excuse. 41 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: Joshua, Judge Andy Michkel, God rest his soul. 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 2: We knew where to find him. 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, wasn't hard. 44 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: Bar Stool's end of a left. 45 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, old Judge Fuller out in Gwenett County, who I 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 3: knew very very well. Similarly, and you could find it's 47 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: not hard to find a magistrate. There's a duty magistrate 48 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: on twenty four hours a day in every major county 49 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: in the nation like it's And for those of y'all 50 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: that are wondering what we're covetching about, it's this mangione 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: here that is happening right now. Are probably just wrapped 52 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 3: up for the day and listening to very strong arguments 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 3: about fundamental stuff law enforcement is supposed to do. Be 54 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: aware of how they're supposed to act. Especially when you've 55 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: been dispatched on at the tail end of what is 56 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: then a five day man hunt for an assassination caught 57 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 3: on video. It has not been the strongest showing for 58 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 3: law enforcement. 59 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: Bottom line, this will be, if not the biggest case 60 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: of their career, the biggest media case of their career. 61 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: How in the world do five officers show up then 62 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: supervisors are made aware of who they got and there's 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: not a warrant for that backpack. 64 00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: And now that they find themselves in this position on 65 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: a case of such importance, not just because it's a 66 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: big crime and a horrible murder, the politics that are 67 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: connected to this run real deep and fundamental, with some 68 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: class issues we haven't even gotten into the politics of 69 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 3: what the defense and mister Mangioni and all that, the 70 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 3: social movement. No, we haven't even gotten to that part. 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: This is fundamental operative stuff and the real problem is, 72 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 3: now that we're in the middle of it, it appears 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 3: that it would be fair to conclude the officer has 74 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 3: been specifically coached how to thread this needle in a 75 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 3: very delicate manner in order for the judge to allow 76 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 3: the evidence to stand. And that begs the question that 77 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: underlies all these criminal prosecutions and everything in civil courdia. 78 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: Are you lying? Is that really what happened? 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: Are you? 80 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 3: Are you just testifying because you know you need to 81 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: say this in order to prevail. Because unfortunately, when you 82 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 3: look at police citizen encounters, which have been litigated to 83 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: death for fifty years, you got there are tier levels. 84 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 3: There are more opinions on what an officer was and 85 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: was not allowed to do with or without what level 86 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 3: of suspicion. We now train officers with big bright highlighters. Hey, 87 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: here's how probable cause works. Here's where the lines are. 88 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: You gotta stay within the lines because if you get 89 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: outside the lines, everything happens outside that line is not 90 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: coming into your case, and unfortunately, this officer appeared to 91 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 3: have not taken this, by his own admission, as a 92 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 3: terribly serious dispatch. And he has got to establish it's 93 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: I believe dett Weiler is the name. He has got 94 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: to establish very specifically that when he was dispatched, he 95 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: didn't have any specific probable cause or realization that this 96 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: was the guy, that this was man joney. He has 97 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: to have been basically zero alert, because if he was 98 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: an alert, if he had suspicion, he should have gotten 99 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 3: a warrant. He should have mirandized people in me. 100 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: That's right. 101 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 3: It's this trap for the poor officer where he can't testify. Yeah, no, 102 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,559 Speaker 3: I thought it was him, so I was just gonna 103 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: go poker. No no, no, no no. That's gonna lose the 104 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 3: case for you. And that poor officer is going to 105 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 3: get pilloried by the fact that it appears that his 106 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: testimony has been thoroughly coached in a specific way. 107 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: Y'all, you have listened to Joshua Scheffer on Zone seven 108 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 1: Crime round Up Court TV al of other places. Y'all 109 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: don't always know the words he's using, Let's be honest. 110 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: He uses some phrases, some words where you're like, I 111 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: need to look that up. 112 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: What did he just say? Here's a hint. 113 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: You don't want that person cross examining you. Trust me, 114 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: y'all heard him when he told y'all he went to 115 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: camp to learn how to come at you. 116 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: And the reports from the actual examination include, and there 117 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: are some wonderful people. This is a course federal court, 118 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 3: so we're really struggling with knowing exactly what's happening inside 119 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: the room. But there have been multiple reports of some 120 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: admissions from the officers about their procedure that basically stopped 121 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: all the criminal practitioners in the room and everybody knows 122 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: that knows criminal law stop and looked at each other 123 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 3: and we're like, did he did he just say that? Okay, 124 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: let's keep going there and keeping knowing that is not 125 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: a good feeling when you're the witness. That is not 126 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: a good feeling when that's your when that's your witness 127 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: and you're the lawyer, because the witness is going to 128 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: get down, go how did I do? Man? How'd I do? 129 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 3: And you, oh, man, you did great? When you very 130 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: clearly illustrated your lack of knowledge as to this specific 131 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: training issue and gutted everything we're trying to do here 132 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: with your authentic testimony. And I'm afraid there were a 133 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 3: couple of those conversations coming with some of this When 134 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 3: and how you obtain a warrant because of warrants just 135 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: that easy. And I tell you, if the government loses 136 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: the bag and the contents, we're going to have a 137 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: whole nother discussion about the poisoning the jury. Well, you 138 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: and I talked about this last week and how these 139 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: statements that are coming out from the administration and other 140 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: agencies really push the ethical boundaries of what law enforcement 141 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 3: is supposed to say or not say, most importantly, not 142 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: say at the early stages of an investigation. And it 143 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: brings in all that pre trial publicity stuff where even 144 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 3: the most conservative justices that are on the most federal 145 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 3: panels now look at that and go, whoa whoa fundamental 146 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: fairness issue. You have an elected or appointed prosecutor that 147 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: owns the press dominating a narrative while this innocent citizen, 148 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: and judges really do think about the innocent citizen they 149 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: do they reverse roles and go, what if it was 150 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 3: me in that position, what would I be able to do? 151 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: And they see that fundamental unfairness of a narrative being 152 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 3: created by law enforcem before there's any investigation. That makes 153 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 3: it very hard to have integrity in your judicial system. 154 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: And now, if you're going to get some of that 155 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 3: key evidence, i e. The manifesto or not a manifesto, 156 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: the gun not a gun, the statements not the statements 157 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: about the fake ID that's done a fit, Well, yeah, 158 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 3: it's the only fake ID I had. Man, you lose 159 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: that stuff. And I'm not saying the case falls apart, 160 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 3: but it sure isn't as strong as it should be. 161 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: That's right. 162 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: I don't believe the case is going to fall apart 163 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: one because we got a video. However, it would be 164 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: great to say, Hey, didn't he check into that hostel 165 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: with a fake ID from New Jersey? 166 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: Is this the same ID? Great? 167 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: And what caliber nine millimeter was used? Is it the 168 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: same ammunition that was in that bag? 169 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 2: Great? And this manifesto? 170 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: Does he not say I want to get a healthcare 171 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: CEO or whatever he says? 172 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: You won't that to come in? 173 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it is important evidence. And yet the fundamentals 174 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: of the case are going to stay the same. And 175 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 3: I'm certain that a good prosecutor can put together a 176 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: case even if the evidence is suppressed, but it is 177 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: not the case that the public deserves. And if there's 178 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: any chance at the most aggressive remedies being applied, which 179 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: a lot of people are calling for as one of 180 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 3: the few legitimate deterrent death penalty cases that's out there 181 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: because deterrence and the death penalty. Everybody says that death 182 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 3: penalty is not a deterrent. Well, when you've got a 183 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 3: random victim like this who's being selected purely because of 184 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: their political or economic position, Well, now now you've actually 185 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 3: got some deterrence because it tells the would be assassines. Nope, nope, nope, 186 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 3: we'll make these political cases death penalty. If the death 187 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 3: penalty portion of this case gets substantially weaker, that causes 188 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: big problems. And I tell you every suppressed piece of 189 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 3: evidence is going to be multiple appeals if this is 190 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 3: a death penalty case. 191 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: But you shouldn't give them, just give them anything. Oh yeah, 192 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: I mean, this would be a huge blow. Shouldn't happen, 193 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: should not even be up for discussion, shouldn't be something 194 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: we're in court arguing about. It should have been done 195 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: by the book by the numbers. They should have called 196 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: in a district attorney to say, hey, how do we proceed? 197 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: What do we do? This is the guy. 198 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 3: And what's frustrating from the practitioner perspective is due to 199 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: this being so factually driven and rules and procedure driven. 200 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: No matter what your political and personal moral persuasions are 201 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 3: in the criminal justice system, you probably haven't attached to 202 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 3: the rules. And you can be pro state, you can 203 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 3: be pro defense. This is a art. Do you believe in? 204 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: Rules are not? Because there aren't more clear rules than 205 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 3: some of these. And if these rules, if the rules 206 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: don't apply here, when do they really apply? 207 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: I mean, a man's life is on the line. 208 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: One of the big criticisms of our system is every 209 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 3: error is harmless and it's oh the rules, man, they're 210 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 3: all there, but they're not real rules because hold on, 211 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: you can violate them and still achieve a conviction that 212 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 3: with stands appellate review. And so now you just don't 213 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 3: need the state breaking one or two rules. Now you 214 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: need you need some pretty good stuff clear violations of 215 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 3: a clear law rule ruling to win on appeal. This 216 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 3: would appear to be kind of clear and sets back 217 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: the whole discourse. 218 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: To me. If you have an officer testifying and he says, look, 219 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: I mean I get this call to go to a McDonald's. 220 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: No way, it's this guy. He planned this thing so 221 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: well that you would think, Okay, he's been in a hostel. 222 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna really see him fake id. He moved about 223 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: the city without leaving much of a trail, or so 224 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: he thought. The way he took, the bus, the way 225 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: he took you know, other transportations try to hide. Yeah, 226 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: I understand, and I would completely when I would be 227 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: listening to him, I would get. 228 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: That, no way, this is going to be the guy. 229 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: But I'm going to stroll into the McDonald's and I'm 230 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: gonna make him happy. I'm gonna do my job. I'm 231 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: gonna check him out. Well, he knew as soon as 232 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: he saw him, that's the guy we've all been seeing 233 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: at that moment. There should have been a supervisor notified. 234 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: There should have been you know, an ada en route. 235 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: I mean, this thing should have been let's circle the 236 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: wagons and let's get to the smartest person to tell 237 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: us the best course of action. 238 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: And really, even if you're an inexperienced or undertrained officer, 239 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: which this officer unfortunately isn't he knew had well enough 240 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: training to know what to do or not do. Let 241 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 3: the training kick in, all right, at the moment you 242 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 3: realize it's him, it's detention, Miranda, and then call for 243 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: guidance and backup as soon as you have exigently secured 244 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 3: the scene, because as soon as you realize, oh, look, 245 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: that's a killer, you get to be a friend. Officer 246 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: has the right and the privilege to be fearful for 247 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 3: public and personal safety the moment he realizes the person 248 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: that he's interacting with is the subject of a manhunt 249 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 3: and want it. But he'd kind of been told that 250 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 3: before even showing up. He just needed to make sure 251 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: he disclaims that enough. And in fact, there was very 252 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 3: specific testimony today about how the supervising officer had said, Hey, 253 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: if it's really him, I'll buy you a hogie, trying 254 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: to show how much of this wasn't serious and the 255 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 3: state needs this to not be serious until officer actually 256 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 3: identifies him. But then the moment you've identified him, everything's 257 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 3: got to go, according to the book, because this is 258 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 3: going to be picked apart and scrutinized to the highest level. 259 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 3: So you put him in custody, secure the safety of yourself, 260 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: the defendant, anybody else around, and then you call for 261 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 3: backup and you get the right direction, including before you 262 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: search anything, get a warrant, before you say anything to him, 263 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 3: you morandize him, and to miss some easy swings built 264 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 3: a pile of nuggets that the defense is reveling in. 265 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 3: Imagine being the defense lawyer and getting the potential murder 266 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: weapon suppressed because of a bad stop. And that's really 267 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 3: how you're going to hear this referred to is this 268 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: was a bad stop. 269 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: Get a warrant, Get a warrant, Get a warrant, get 270 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: a warrant. 271 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: Not everybody is as sophisticated as mister MANGIONI. Though we 272 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: have some other trial action going on this week, I 273 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 3: don't know if you've been paying too much attention to 274 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 3: that big case out of Massachusetts, this Brian Walsh case, 275 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: which you can tell it's a slow trial season because 276 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 3: this is the case that so many people are on 277 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 3: right now, talk about a case that didn't need to 278 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 3: get tried. I one hundred percent believe this was a 279 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 3: zero offer case that it was man. You can plead 280 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: to the court, you can take the deal, but we 281 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 3: ain't going to give you one minute off of a 282 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 3: max recommendation because of just the horrificness of the allegations, 283 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 3: followed up by the overwhelming evidence that Brian Walsh, who 284 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: killed his wife, dismembered her, hid her body, and then 285 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 3: lied to everyone, including their three kids, about what happened 286 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 3: to mommy. I almost feel bad for the defense crew, 287 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 3: except for the fact that I really kind of am 288 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 3: picking a bone with them the defense opening, and these 289 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 3: don't have squat to work with. The big mistake that 290 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 3: lawyers make is that if you don't have anything to 291 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 3: work with, you just get loud and angry and people 292 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 3: will pay attention to you. But that's basically telling everybody, hey, 293 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 3: we don't have anything and we need to lose. And 294 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 3: the defense for mister Walsh is laughable and is basically 295 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 3: guaranteeing he has to show up and testify and he's 296 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: going to get eviscerated on cross but that he woke 297 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 3: up in the middle of the night or was there 298 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 3: in the middle of the night, and she was supposed 299 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 3: to be asleep when he gets into bed and she's 300 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: not asleep, she's dead. And instead of you know, calling 301 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 3: ambulances and law enforcement and you know, family members and 302 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 3: freaking out, No, he started searching the internet for the 303 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 3: worst how do you dispose of a body? Admissions of 304 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: all time? Then he disposed of the body and what 305 00:19:54,359 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 3: I'm pretty certain is a graphically inexcusably awful manner involving 306 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: multiple dumpsters. 307 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: Uh. 308 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 3: And then he's lied his way into this position where 309 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 3: I expect, after a disastrous attempt, for him to save 310 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 3: himself via testify, and he's going to get convicted and 311 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: sentenced to multiple consecutives. 312 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: Well, I try to say as often as I can, 313 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: a lie is as good as a confession. 314 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 2: But once once I lock. 315 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: You in and you start changing it even slightly. Now 316 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: we're getting somewhere. 317 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: But you know, it's always a clue to me, Josh. 318 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: When your place of business report you missing before your. 319 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 3: Spouse bingo being it was like, okay, man, there's just 320 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 3: no logic in no matter what story you start to tell, 321 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 3: because you've failed to pass the first step, Like you don't, 322 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 3: you don't just keep quiet about them. Things wake up 323 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 3: next to a dead woman crawling to bed and the 324 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 3: person's dead and quiet. That is not what's happening. No 325 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 3: one understands or agrees with. No, no, no, you don't 326 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: tell anybody about that. 327 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, don't tell them. 328 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: And you don't want to upset the kids, so chap 329 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: her up and get rid of her. 330 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 3: Certainly not the three children you have. Oh and the 331 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 3: fact that you discovered that, yes, she was having an affair, 332 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 3: and that's awful and terrible. It's not death penalty though, 333 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 3: like having an affair shouldn't result in you being murdered 334 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 3: general rules. But yeah, this case and it again, and 335 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 3: a lot of the discussion is about the narcissism and 336 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 3: almost psychopathy of putting up a defense like this because 337 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 3: it's so ridiculous his Google searches. All right, ladies and gentlemen, 338 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 3: if you did it on the internet, we can pay 339 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 3: somebody to go find out what you did. I know 340 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 3: you think you can encrypt a lot of it. And 341 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: there's arguments over the interpret but really, digital bits and 342 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 3: bites leave trails, and Google is only too happy to 343 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: comply with subpoenas, and man, his search history could not 344 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: be more inculpatory. It's can you identify a body when 345 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 3: you break the teeth in what's the best saw? To 346 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 3: cut up a body is a hack saw, really the 347 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 3: best saw to cut up a bot like it is, Cheryl, 348 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 3: I'm telling you, it makes you want to just wish 349 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 3: him into prison so that we don't have to be 350 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 3: exposed to the choices. It's it's insane but gripping television. 351 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: In a lot of ways. People really like watching the 352 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 3: case because of its salaciousness. 353 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, honey, I hate to cut this short, but yeah, 354 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: I've got a family dinner. 355 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: To get to. 356 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: It's gonna be a tough, tough night, but I do 357 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: appreciate you always, and I you know, I just I 358 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: get so frustrated because it's like, we've done it. We've 359 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: told you, we've trained you, and look where we are. 360 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: We're in a position we shouldn't be in. 361 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 3: And the poor captain, the poor lieutenant, like, man, they 362 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 3: covered this like you go back to the barracks. Man, 363 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,239 Speaker 3: you covered this right, like this is nausey on oh my, 364 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 3: it has got to be crushing. 365 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 2: So to me, the training should be you get a warrant. 366 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: Every time, get a warrant. It's that easy, y'all. 367 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 3: It ain't hard, you hear, Oh it's hard to get No, No, no, really, 368 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 3: you raise your hand, you say that you're a sworn 369 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 3: police officer with lots of training, and then you say, well, 370 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 3: my belief is I observed, since I observed this evidence, 371 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: I believe a crime has been committed. I would like 372 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 3: to show the permission of the court to put this 373 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 3: person under arrest and go search them. Most of the 374 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 3: time judges go and ask you a couple of questions 375 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 3: such as, it really is you and you really did 376 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 3: see them and this happened, or this is what you 377 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 3: saw and heard and reported from people. Yep, it's it's 378 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: it's a specific, articulable suspicion. It is not beyond a 379 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 3: reasonable doubt. It is not clear and convincing. It is 380 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 3: not preponderance. That No, it is the lowest bar in law. 381 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 3: You have to be able to enunciate and articulate a 382 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 3: crime might have occur. That's it. So there's just no 383 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 3: excuse to skip. It's like making a grilled cheese sandwich 384 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 3: and you're like, well, we're gonna do this, but we 385 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: don't need cheese. 386 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 2: Like it just heals me. 387 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: It just it just is so frustrating. 388 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 3: I love talking at these conversations. The highlight of my week. 389 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 3: I love y'all in the audience. Michelle, I know that 390 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 3: you're gonna go celebrate some wonderful stuff with some love people. 391 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: So I'm gonna say good night to everyone. Go love somebody, 392 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: even if it's yourself. And I'm sorry if you heard 393 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 3: one of the Justice kitties purring the entire time. She's 394 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 3: just relentless these days. 395 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: All Right, have a good week. 396 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 2: Can he not talk to you, sir by? 397 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 3: Y'all