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Speaker 1: Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a

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Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session to thirty four of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the

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Speaker 1: episode after a word from our sponsors. What have you

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Speaker 1: been taught about money? Have you ever stopped to think

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Speaker 1: about what kind of relationship you have to it? To

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Speaker 1: help us think through our relationship to money and how

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Speaker 1: it can impact our relationships with others is Loquisha Boston.

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Speaker 1: Aquisha is a relationship and financial therapists licensed in Missouri.

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Speaker 1: As a psychotherapist and a certified financial coach. She works

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Speaker 1: to help individuals who are seeking to break out of

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Speaker 1: patterns that keep them feeling stuck within their relationships and

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Speaker 1: within their finances. During our conversation, Aquisha and I chatted

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Speaker 1: about the factors that influence our money mindset, conversations to

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Speaker 1: have with your partner about money and some of the

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Speaker 1: issues that come up as it relates to friends and finances.

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Speaker 1: If there's something that resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: TBG in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us today, Laquetia, Thank you for having me. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: I would just love to hear because I always think

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting how therapists picked their specialty areas or

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Speaker 1: how we fall into them, right, because I think that's

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Speaker 1: what happens most often. So tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how finances and financial therapy became something that you

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Speaker 1: began to specialize in. Yes, so, my two favorite topics

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Speaker 1: in the whole world is relationships and finances, and so

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Speaker 1: I've always been drawn to money. I've always enjoyed talking

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Speaker 1: about money and learning about money as I was becoming

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Speaker 1: a therapist and trying to figure out a niche and

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Speaker 1: just really what my interests were everything that I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: learning about and talking about fell under relationships, and so

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Speaker 1: that's what I knew I wanted to focus on. As

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Speaker 1: I was talking with couples and talking with individuals, my

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Speaker 1: he just kept coming up. And I was one of

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Speaker 1: those therapists that never steered the conversation away from money.

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Speaker 1: I was very comfortable talking about money. As I started

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Speaker 1: to also shift a little bit and do more couples work,

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Speaker 1: conversations about money kept coming up for couples. It was

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Speaker 1: a very touchy sore spot area for a lot of couples.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I was also learning about money

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Speaker 1: for my own personal life, and it just sort of

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Speaker 1: seemed to really fit where I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: think I think I could possibly have finances into this,

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Speaker 1: And so in doing research, I was like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: there's actually a specialty, Like there's an area expertise of

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Speaker 1: financial therapy. And so once I started to really dig

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Speaker 1: in deeper for that and learn more about myself and

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Speaker 1: my own emotions around money and my own money scripts

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Speaker 1: and my own history around finances, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: think this is a really good and natural fit into

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Speaker 1: relationship work. It has been really, really great so it

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Speaker 1: just became this natural thing that that just paid really

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Speaker 1: well together, right, Right, So I would love for you

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Speaker 1: to share more about, like some of the difficulties you've

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Speaker 1: seen clients have around money, because I think that is

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Speaker 1: something that comes up for a lot of us, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: depending on how we were raised and cultural background I

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Speaker 1: think plays into this. What are some of the difficulties

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Speaker 1: or some of the things that caused us to have

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Speaker 1: difficulty talking about money? So, as you said, just our background, right,

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Speaker 1: depending on if a client's individual or couple, if money

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Speaker 1: was a source of tension in the home, or if

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Speaker 1: it was something that was openly discussed, that helps shape

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Speaker 1: whether somebody is comfortable talking about money or not. If

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Speaker 1: money was something where people had to really have conversations

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Speaker 1: around do I pay for this or do I pay

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Speaker 1: for this? Versus can I get this and this? Right? Like,

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Speaker 1: that helps to to shape how people feel about having

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Speaker 1: conversations about money. And then also when it comes to

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Speaker 1: just the practical side of money, do I understand money,

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Speaker 1: Do I understand how much is coming in versus going out?

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Speaker 1: And if there's a lack in some way, do I

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable talking about that with somebody where do I

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Speaker 1: go if I need help or assistance. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: one thing if you're an individual counseling and you can

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Speaker 1: kind of explore that yourself and you kind of go

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Speaker 1: at your own pace. But when you're doing that with

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Speaker 1: a partner or with a spouse, and you're not only

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Speaker 1: having to figure out your own money issues, but also

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Speaker 1: your partner or your spouse's financial issues, that can become

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Speaker 1: difficult as well. And so because not everybody needs at

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Speaker 1: the same pace, or not everyone is as comfortable talking

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Speaker 1: about money and exploring money, and so that becomes a

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Speaker 1: little difficult for people as well. So it really just depends.

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Speaker 1: And then also are you a saver or you a spender?

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Speaker 1: And that looks different either way. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of times we tell ourselves that there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: positive aspects around saving versus spending, But there can be

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Speaker 1: some downside to both of those things, including saving if

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Speaker 1: you're more of a money holder, if you don't want

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Speaker 1: to spend anything, if you're type with finances and you

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Speaker 1: happen to be dating somebody or married to somebody who's

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Speaker 1: more of that spender who likes to have nice things

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Speaker 1: or to you know, loosen the purse strings a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and so again those things can be a little bit difficult.

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Speaker 1: M hmmm. So something else you mentioned around money scripts?

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Speaker 1: Can you say that is? Yeah, so thank you for asking.

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Speaker 1: So money scripts are the stories that we tell ourselves

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Speaker 1: about money, positive and negative, and so again around if

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Speaker 1: I'm a saver, what does that say about me? Or

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Speaker 1: what do other people think about me? If I'm a spender?

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Speaker 1: What does that say about me? What do other people

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Speaker 1: think about me? If I make a certain amount of money,

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Speaker 1: If I'm in a certain industry that maybe look down

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Speaker 1: versus somebody that's more of a higher earner, what does

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Speaker 1: that say about me? What does other people think? And

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Speaker 1: so we have these scripts around money that we're taught

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Speaker 1: directly and indirectly from our childhood, and that becomes sometimes

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Speaker 1: the story that we tell ourselves to keep ourselves stuck,

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Speaker 1: especially when we're trying to explore breakthroughs with money. Or

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Speaker 1: if you let's say you've got a raise or a

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Speaker 1: promotion and now you're making more money, and how does

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Speaker 1: that feel? What are you telling yourself about that? Or

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Speaker 1: even negotiating a salary or raise. What are you saying

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Speaker 1: to yourself before you're walking into room to ask that question.

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Speaker 1: Those are the money scripts that that are in your head.

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Speaker 1: You know, so much of what you're saying sounds so

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Speaker 1: based in emotion, right, And I don't think a lot

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Speaker 1: of us have thought about like the emotions that are

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Speaker 1: attached to like whether we have money, how much of

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Speaker 1: it we have? Even though you wouldn't necessarily typically think

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Speaker 1: about talking about some of this stuff in therapy, it

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Speaker 1: actually sounds like it would be a great place to

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Speaker 1: talk about some of this. It is, so a lot

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Speaker 1: of us think about money in a more practical sense, right,

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Speaker 1: how much? How little do I have? It? Do I not?

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Speaker 1: But money is very, very very much tied to the

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Speaker 1: emotional side of us. There was a two thousand and

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Speaker 1: to study that was done that showed that eighty five

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Speaker 1: percent of our decisions or rooted in emotions. And so

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Speaker 1: I always tell couples and individuals that I work with

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Speaker 1: money is never just about money. It represents something so

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Speaker 1: much deeper for all of us. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: times people they haven't quite connected with that about what

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Speaker 1: are the emotions that are tied to money? And so

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Speaker 1: they sometimes keep making the same mistakes over and over.

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Speaker 1: So for somebody who is just starting to think like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I want to do some work around, like what is

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Speaker 1: my relationship to money? What are some things that people

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Speaker 1: might do when they're first starting to explore that relationship.

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Speaker 1: So I usually encourage people to just pay attention to

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Speaker 1: your body. What are you feeling in your body? That's

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Speaker 1: the very first step, because until we can connect what's

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Speaker 1: going on with our body, a lot of times people

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Speaker 1: will say, like, for the more practical stuff, you gotta budget,

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Speaker 1: And I'm all about budgeting. I love budgeting. I encourage

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Speaker 1: people to budget. But if you're not familiar with what's

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Speaker 1: going on in your body, that tightness in your chest,

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Speaker 1: to your stomach, the bubble guts that you may be

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Speaker 1: feeling where you're thinking about money, just any type of

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Speaker 1: pressure or sensation that you're experiencing your body. If you're

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Speaker 1: not aware of what's going on, you might find a

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Speaker 1: little bit of presidency to explore money, whether it's budgeting,

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Speaker 1: whether it's learning more about money, listening to a podcast,

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Speaker 1: reading a money book. And so it's really important to

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Speaker 1: be able to understand what's going on in our bodies

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Speaker 1: when we're thinking about money and when we're really starting

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Speaker 1: this journey around learning about money and ourselves and our

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Speaker 1: relationship to money. Yeah, you know, I think I've seen

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Speaker 1: memes and I'm sure you have too, about like how

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Speaker 1: people will just go and have a great weekend and

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Speaker 1: just don't check their account. Right. So when you said that,

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Speaker 1: it made me think about like the sensation that often

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Speaker 1: comes from people like just logging into their online account,

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Speaker 1: right because you maybe don't know what they expects exactly,

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Speaker 1: You don't know what to expect, which I will say

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Speaker 1: that is probably the first indication that your relationship with

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Speaker 1: money there's a disconnect there, because you should be able

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Speaker 1: to have some idea of what you're expecting in your account,

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Speaker 1: even if the number is very low. But if you're like, oh, whoa,

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Speaker 1: I thought I had way more money than I did,

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Speaker 1: then that's something to really explore. Right, So what's the

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Speaker 1: reason for not checking it on a more regular basis,

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Speaker 1: what's the reason for not you know, having some sort

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Speaker 1: of better idea around where your money is going? M

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Speaker 1: Are there other signs like that that we might want

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Speaker 1: to pay attention to that might indicate there may be

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Speaker 1: some work around our relationship with money to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're shying away from conversations around money, especially if

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Speaker 1: you're married, right, because your income is tied to your

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Speaker 1: spouses income, even if the accounts are separate, right, how

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Speaker 1: much you're bringing in, how much your spouse is bringing in,

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Speaker 1: that matters. And if you're unwilling or hesitant to have

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Speaker 1: those conversations, then that's an indication that there's something there.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times will tell ourselves like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just not a money person, or I'd rather do

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Speaker 1: something else or rather talk about something else. But it's

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Speaker 1: important to at least recognize that there's something there that's

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Speaker 1: keeping you from having those conversations. And the more that

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Speaker 1: you can have those conversations, the easier it gets. And

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Speaker 1: so that's what I really encouraged couples to do. An

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Speaker 1: individuals who are meeting with accountability partner or just speaking

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Speaker 1: with their best friend or somebody that they trust, is

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Speaker 1: to really start having those conversations. And you don't have

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Speaker 1: to go into I make this much and I spend

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Speaker 1: this much. I'm noticing that there's something going on with

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Speaker 1: me and money. I'm noticing that I just don't like

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Speaker 1: to talk about money, and I'm wondering where that's coming from.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of times it stems from an individual's childhood.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm. So you said that, you know, we definitely

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Speaker 1: should be having these conversations with our partners is, but

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering at what point in dating would we start

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Speaker 1: having conversations around money, and what conversation should we be having,

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Speaker 1: like before marriage with somebody we're dating. So it depends

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Speaker 1: on how comfortable each person is. There are some people

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Speaker 1: like me who are very comfortable talking about money, and

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Speaker 1: I have to sometimes remember that other people just aren't.

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Speaker 1: And so if you are somebody who is comfortable talking

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Speaker 1: about money, then a lot of times people will be

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Speaker 1: like I talked about money on the first date, even

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Speaker 1: if it's about how are we splitting the check or

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Speaker 1: who's paying, you know, on the first date. For somebody

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Speaker 1: that's not comfortable talking about money, then you kind of

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Speaker 1: have to do baby steps with them. You have to

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Speaker 1: be you have to go a little bit slower with them,

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Speaker 1: and that's okay. But I would say definitely, if things

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Speaker 1: are starting to really get serious in the relationship, that's

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Speaker 1: definitely a time to talk about money. Having a conversation

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Speaker 1: about money before moving in with somebody is extremely important,

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Speaker 1: and that I always challenge couples, especially when they're thinking

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Speaker 1: about moving in together around Okay, well, let's have this

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Speaker 1: conversation right here in the session, and let me pay

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Speaker 1: attention and watch you to have this conversation. And in

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Speaker 1: that way I'm able to, you know, give feedback on

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Speaker 1: which person is more uncomfortable, what's our sore spot for somebody,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Just again, the more you can

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Speaker 1: practice it, the better people become. And so at the

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Speaker 1: very earliest, when you're starting to realize that you're wanting

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Speaker 1: the relationship to be serious, that it's really an important

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Speaker 1: time to start having money conversations. And so are there

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Speaker 1: other things to focus on in the conversation besides like

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Speaker 1: saving versus spending? Like what other kinds of things might

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Speaker 1: you want to be talking about? Yeah, so again, it

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Speaker 1: depends on what the next step is. So let's say,

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Speaker 1: if if a couple is wanting to move in, then

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Speaker 1: not only talking about how much each of you are

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Speaker 1: making so income, but also what deck do both of

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Speaker 1: you or either of you have, How are you splitting utilities,

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Speaker 1: how are you splitting rent or mortgage? What happens if

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Speaker 1: there is a financial setback? Right, do you both have

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Speaker 1: separate emergency funds. Do you have a joint emergency fund?

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Speaker 1: What happens if somebody loses a job and you two

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Speaker 1: are living together, how do you navigate those conversations? What's

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Speaker 1: the plan in place? What our YouTube talking about? And

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Speaker 1: so those are all the things to have conversations about.

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Speaker 1: And I'll throw out another one that most people tend

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Speaker 1: to not think about. If one person is financially responsible

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Speaker 1: for a family member, so a parent, if they tend

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Speaker 1: to loan money to somebody on a regular basis, or

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Speaker 1: even pay somebody's bill on a regular basis, that is

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Speaker 1: something to really share with the other person, because again,

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Speaker 1: if you all are cohabitating or even married, it can

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Speaker 1: hinder the other person. And so those are conversations to

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Speaker 1: have with one another before actually moving in. Mm hmmm, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that does sound really important. I'm wondering if you can

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Speaker 1: share maybe some of the common things that come up

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Speaker 1: with your couples. Right, So, where do couples tend to

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Speaker 1: get stuck in these money conversations or what conversations are

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Speaker 1: they not having that they should be having. So everything

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Speaker 1: I just talked about is actually pretty common. So if

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Speaker 1: we're talking about couples who are dating, what I typically

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Speaker 1: see it in my practice, if they can bring it

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Speaker 1: up to me before they actually move in, that's when

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Speaker 1: we start to have those conversations, sometimes though they've already

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Speaker 1: moved in and they're already, you know, having these money

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Speaker 1: arguments and seeing that one person is a spender the

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Speaker 1: other ones to save her. One person's loaning their mother

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Speaker 1: a lot of money and the other one just doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite like it. Saving is usually a big, big issue.

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Speaker 1: And then, like I said, not having a plan in

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Speaker 1: place as far as an emergency fund, and so those

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Speaker 1: are things that just haven't been established. How much are

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Speaker 1: you paying and how much am I paying? And is

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Speaker 1: that fair? Whatever we've decided around finances, is this fair?

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Speaker 1: Or is the setting the other person up for failure

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Speaker 1: so to speak, which then set the relationship up for failure.

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Speaker 1: So those are the things that I see when it

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Speaker 1: comes to dating with couples who are already married. What

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Speaker 1: they're recognizing is that they did not have these conversations prior.

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Speaker 1: They thought that just combining their income would make things easier.

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Speaker 1: And so what ends up being a sore spot for

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Speaker 1: couples is when they start to get their first home

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Speaker 1: either they've already bought it and they realized now they're

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Speaker 1: becoming house poor because they didn't quite have this conversation beforehand.

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Speaker 1: And so now that we've got dead and how do

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Speaker 1: we handle this? And is this my dad? Is this

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Speaker 1: your dad? Is this our dead? Do I have to

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Speaker 1: help you pay off your debt? I've already handled my

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Speaker 1: It becomes a huge issue. And so again just getting

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Speaker 1: them to say, okay, let's just talk and just notice

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Speaker 1: what's going on within yourselves and recognizing that with the

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Speaker 1: other a partner, that's the work that we start to do,

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Speaker 1: because it's not really about the money, it's about the

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Speaker 1: emotions underneath. Right, is there somebody in the relationship or

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Speaker 1: in the marriage that feels I'm safe, that feels that

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Speaker 1: their sense of security is being ripped out from under

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Speaker 1: them because there's a lot of debt, or somebody feeling

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Speaker 1: like there's a power and control issue around finances, right,

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Speaker 1: like I can't spend money the way I want to

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Speaker 1: have to check in with you first if I want

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Speaker 1: to spend money. And so those are the things that

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Speaker 1: we have to navigate more from my conversation with Aquisia

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Speaker 1: after the break, you know. Something else that comes up Aquisia,

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Speaker 1: it seems, is this whole conversation around joint accounts, separate accounts,

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Speaker 1: like how do we decide? So I'd love for you

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Speaker 1: to share, Like how might a couple decide on what

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Speaker 1: might be the best set up for them? Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's really about what goals does a couple have together?

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Speaker 1: What is the goal that you two want short term

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Speaker 1: and long term? And what we know is that when

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Speaker 1: couples have a joint account, they win better with money

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Speaker 1: because it forces them to have money conversations. Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I saw that three dollars was taking out of the account.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about this, or hey, like what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Or okay, yeah, let's put money here and let's figure

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Speaker 1: out how we want to allocate this money. Let's sit

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Speaker 1: down and budget. So having a joint account forces couples

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Speaker 1: to have those conversations. When I have a married couple,

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Speaker 1: I always encourage them to have the joint accounts because again,

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Speaker 1: it forces them to have these conversations. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to unmarried couples, right, that could be a little bit

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Speaker 1: tricky because of laws, and if somebody breaks up or dies,

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Speaker 1: then you know what happens with the money that's within

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Speaker 1: the joint account. And so those are things that you

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Speaker 1: have to navigate person to person. And so that's also

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Speaker 1: why I tell people personal finances are personal. They're personal

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Speaker 1: for a reason. And so what works for one couple

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Speaker 1: may not work for another couple. Of what works for

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Speaker 1: one individual may not work for another individual because of

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Speaker 1: all of the other dynamics that are at play at

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Speaker 1: any given moment that a couple is having to navigate

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Speaker 1: around money. Thank you for that. Something else that comes

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Speaker 1: up quite often, you know, in conversations with our community,

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Speaker 1: is this idea that you know, a lot of us

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Speaker 1: have gone on and gotten like advanced degrees and like

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Speaker 1: all these additional credentials. And so to your point earlier,

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Speaker 1: a lot of us are like making maybe the most

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Speaker 1: money in the family, right, So a lot of us,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've heard about the stream that sometimes comes

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Speaker 1: because you're supporting nieces and nephews, maybe your parents, maybe grandparents.

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Speaker 1: So can you talk a little bit about whether this

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Speaker 1: has come up with like any of your clients, and like,

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Speaker 1: how might someone continue to take care of themselves if

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Speaker 1: they find themselves in this position of supporting a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other people in their family. Yeah, so the majority

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Speaker 1: of my clients have this thing that they're experiencing, yes,

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Speaker 1: And and I think that's because, especially for our community,

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Speaker 1: I think years ago, there was a term called black

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Speaker 1: task that was thrown around, and that was helping people

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Speaker 1: in your family get a leg up and the guilt

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Speaker 1: and a shame that an individual face if they did

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Speaker 1: not do that and they were making more money than

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Speaker 1: most of their family members. This is why budgeting is

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Speaker 1: very very very very important, and that's what I will

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Speaker 1: sit down with a client and we will actually write

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Speaker 1: out their budget, because sometimes you can't do it. You

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Speaker 1: can be a high earner and still not be financially

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Speaker 1: stable enough to help somebody, and so sometimes the budget

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Speaker 1: will just show there's no wiggle room in the budget

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Speaker 1: to take care of you and somebody else, or take

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Speaker 1: care of you and five other people. I've had of

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Speaker 1: clients who are like, Okay, I get that, but I

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Speaker 1: still want to help this particular person, and so we

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Speaker 1: just write that in the budget. There is a budget

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Speaker 1: line and they allocate a certain amount of money each

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Speaker 1: month to go towards helping out that person, so that

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Speaker 1: way you know they're not getting further into debt. They're

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Speaker 1: not just completely demolishing their budget. They know this set

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Speaker 1: amount goes towards this person, and when I've met that amount,

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Speaker 1: that's it. I can't do anything more. And that has

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Speaker 1: been really helpful in setting up boundaries for that person

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Speaker 1: and that family member and then being able to fall

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Speaker 1: on no, I just can't do it, rather than I

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Speaker 1: don't want to you, or I have to feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm the worst person in the world because

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Speaker 1: I'm saying no to this person. You're saying no because

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Speaker 1: the budget is just not there, It's not in the line. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate you adding in the fact that helps

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Speaker 1: to set a boundary, because I would imagine that it's

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Speaker 1: also important to have conversations probably therapy or you know,

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Speaker 1: you journaling about it for yourself, like what is driving

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Speaker 1: you to give the money? Right, because if it is

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Speaker 1: like I feel really guilty, or go I feel shame

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Speaker 1: about the fact that like I make this much money

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Speaker 1: and like my parents don't, or something right like art

396
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Speaker 1: does it come from a place of you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to do this right, Like I feel like they

398
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Speaker 1: poured into me and this is a part of how

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Speaker 1: I want to give back, and so I think that conversation,

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Speaker 1: along with the budgeting, seems like it could help somebody

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Speaker 1: really manage good boundaries in that kind of a situation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'll say a little bit more about that. You

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Speaker 1: help drop my memory on. There are some clients, like

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Speaker 1: I said, because of their childhood, power and control around

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Speaker 1: finances has been a huge issue, and so sometimes as

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Speaker 1: they become adults, they do feel really torn between setting

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Speaker 1: this boundary of I have to take care of this

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Speaker 1: family member even though this family member didn't take care

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Speaker 1: of me well, and so there's some resentment around that.

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Speaker 1: And those are things that will work through in therapy

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Speaker 1: that even if you want to say for the next

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Speaker 1: few months, I'm going to say no because this makes

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Speaker 1: me feel a little better and this helps me to

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Speaker 1: practice boundaries, and then I'll start to say, y'allse I'll

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Speaker 1: start to allocate some money or like I said, just

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Speaker 1: putting a cap on whatever that finances, and so they're

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Speaker 1: not blowing the budget just to help this one family member,

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Speaker 1: and that called the some resentment and some tension. M hmm,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. So the other

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Speaker 1: thing that I don't think comes up as much, but

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Speaker 1: maybe has in your practice. Are conversations around money with friends?

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Speaker 1: So are there tensions or things that have come up

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Speaker 1: for you or for clients around like money between friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's usually because a group of friends don't typically

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Speaker 1: make the same money a lot of the times, especially

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Speaker 1: if you know misfriends in your childhood and you two

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Speaker 1: are working in different industries. The first half of my

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00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: career I spent in nonprofit and so I was making

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Speaker 1: the least amount of money all of my friends. And

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Speaker 1: then the table started to turn where I was able

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Speaker 1: to start making more money. And thankfully the group of

432
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: friends that I have, we've always been comfortable talking about money,

433
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: and so I've always felt okay for the most part,

434
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: saying unfortunately, I can't do this, or I can't afford that,

435
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: or I'll catching next time, or I can't take that

436
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,239
Speaker 1: trip maybe next year. But I do know that there

437
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: are some clients who don't feel comfortable having those conversations,

438
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: and then again they feel guilt or they feel shame

439
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: and not being able to afford those things. And so

440
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: those are conversations that will have in our sessions as well.

441
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: What does that mean for you? That you can't afford it,

442
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: and what does that look like? How does that play

443
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: out in your friendships? But then there's also this thing

444
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: that happens with higher earners who can't afford something and

445
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: they feel obligated to either pay for somebody else or

446
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: they have to sometimes pick and choose. Do I celebrate

447
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: this great vent with this particular group of friends who

448
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: right no can afford it and leave this other group

449
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: out or this other person out, or do I do

450
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: something separate with that person you know that has a

451
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: lower income. And those conversations, you know, they can be

452
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: a little bit tough and tricky, because again, money is

453
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: never just about money, and so there's some her feelings

454
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: that come up, or you know, there's just a lot

455
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: of emotions that come up on both sides of that

456
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: for individuals. Did you see this video that came up

457
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: given your work, I'm sure you did this video a

458
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: couple of months where this guy had a whole spreadsheet

459
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: of the friends, how much they make, how much like

460
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: time off they have, do they have a part, Oh

461
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: my gosh, oh my god, oh gosh. It was so

462
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: much commentary around this, but basically it was like a

463
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: spreadsheet system like that this guy and like six of

464
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: his friends have created that, like it is supposed to

465
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: help with like ease of planning travel, right, So so

466
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: some friends are okay with like in the national travel

467
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: some friends have like unlimited time off. So it's all

468
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: like in a spreadsheet. But you made me think of

469
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: that because you're saying, like, these are the kinds of

470
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: conversations that I think can sometimes be tricky to have,

471
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: but I think it's also really important to have them.

472
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: So what kinds of tips can you share for people

473
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: to like have maybe some of these more delicate money

474
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: conversations with groups of friends. Yeah. I always like to

475
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: tell people to set the intention, and so it's okay

476
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: to go to somebody that you feel is trustworthy. I

477
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: think that's very important because not everybody you're able to

478
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: have these types of conversations with, and it's important to

479
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: recognize that. But when you're able to recognize it a

480
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: person that you can trust to have these conversations with,

481
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: thin you can just say, Hey, I want to start

482
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: exploring my own relationship with money, so therefore I want

483
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: to talk to you or whomever about money and what

484
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: that looks like and how I feel about that, and

485
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: so you know, just naming it and saying sometimes it's

486
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: going to be awkward for you, and sometimes it's going

487
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: to be a little bit uncomfortable. It that's just moment

488
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: to moment, and you can sit in that uncomfortable feeling.

489
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: You know that moment will pass. And again the more

490
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: that you do it, the easier it gets. And I

491
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: think to what people end up finding out, at least

492
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: for my clients, is that when they start to have

493
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: those money conversations, like when they start to initiate it,

494
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: the other people around them that they're having those conversations

495
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: with start to chime in and share information as well,

496
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: and they end up learning a lot about one another

497
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: that just because somebody might be a high earner doesn't

498
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they're good with money, and so they

499
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: may be struggling to pay debt, or they may still

500
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: be living paycheck to paycheck, or that they are doing fine,

501
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: and they can give tips and suggestions and I've read

502
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: this book or I listened to this podcast, and this

503
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: has been really helpful. And so it becomes this deeper

504
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: connection that friends can have with one another around money

505
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: conversations and that it doesn't have to be isolating, and

506
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be just a negative thing. It

507
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: can be very opening for everybody to have more conversations

508
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: around money. Like you've mentioned, like money is never just

509
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: about the money, and so when you're having these kinds

510
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: of vulnerable conversations regardless of the topic, right in a

511
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: group of people that you trust, typically it deepens the relationships.

512
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: And so I think of with money being the topic,

513
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: it really is just an opportunity that really kind of

514
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: deepen some of those friendships. And I think the other

515
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: piece of that is that the timing of that conversation

516
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: is important, right, Like you don't want to try to

517
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: open this conversation when we're trying to decide whether we're

518
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: going to take like a week long trip to Italy, right,

519
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: Like I think starting some of these conversations when we're

520
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: not talking about spending money, but just as a as

521
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: a topic, right, Like, let's talk about our relationship to money, right, Like,

522
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: I think it would be cool. I could see this

523
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: podcast episode being a great place for you and your

524
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: girls to listen to it and say, hey, let's let's

525
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: texp moore our relationship to money, right and what does

526
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: this mean? And how was I raised, you know, because

527
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: I think you can feel safer to sometimes talk about

528
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: that with your friends and then you have those convers

529
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: so with romantic partners in the future. Yeah, absolutely, And

530
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: I think to the more that you have these conversations,

531
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: you start to be able to really see what you

532
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: can and can't do. Right. So, if we were to

533
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: take your example of a vacation in Italy, you know,

534
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: I've had a conversation with a client before and she's like, yeah,

535
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: my friends are going on a nine day trip and

536
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: I can't afford that. And so we talked a little

537
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: bit about budget, and I said, okay, well, after going

538
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: through the budget and seeing where her money goals were

539
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: and all of that. And this is somebody I've been

540
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: working with for a while anyway, and so people are

541
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: already used to having these conversations. It was nothing for

542
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 1: me to say, Okay, well, let's just look at your budget.

543
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: And she wasn't able to do a whole nine day trip,

544
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: but she was able to go for half of it,

545
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: and and so she's like, okay, so then y'all do that.

546
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: I'll just go right then in the middle and I'll

547
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: stay into the end. And that's exactly what she did,

548
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: and so you learn that it doesn't have to be

549
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: an all or nothing. It doesn't have to be either

550
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: I can't go, I can't go. Sometimes you can do

551
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of that, or like I said, you

552
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: can't go every year, but maybe you go every other year.

553
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: You can't do three trips in one year, maybe you

554
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: do just the one. And so that's why it's important

555
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: to also know for yourself what your relationship around money

556
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: is and what your budget is and all of that

557
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: that the more you deal with, the easier it gets.

558
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: M M more. From my conversation with the Cuisia after

559
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: the break, I really appreciate you sharing that example because

560
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: I think especially you know, if you've had long term friends,

561
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: right like people you met in college and you're now

562
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: maybe in your early thirties, you have likely experienced lots

563
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: of first with this group of people, right, And so,

564
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, even for your own personal journey, you know,

565
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: starting out in nonprofit and then moving into different areas

566
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: of work, your ability to spend is different at different

567
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: times in that journey. And so I'm wondering if you

568
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: can talk a little bit about some of the feelings

569
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: that do come up as people may be at different place,

570
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: is in their jobs or in their earnings, and how

571
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: that might impact the friend group. Yeah, keeping up with

572
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: the Joneses is huge that a lot of people struggle

573
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: with that, and so like it's one thing people will

574
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: talk about, like, oh Instagram, people like their life looks

575
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: so great on Instagram and they're doing all of these things,

576
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: And now I have pomo orm struggling with my own

577
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: self work. But when you're experiencing that within your group

578
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: of friends, where your friends are able to travel more

579
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: often than you for whatever reason, then it does feel

580
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: as if you're being left out and that doesn't feel

581
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: great when the four people you tend to hang out

582
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: with are out on vacation and you have nothing to

583
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: do for a week, Right, So what do you do

584
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: with your time? What are you telling yourself that money

585
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: script that will go back to that money script that

586
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: you're saying to yourself and your head about your own

587
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: self worth and what it means that you can't have

588
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: this lavish lifestyle so to speak, or you can't do

589
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: these fun things or experiences. Right, what are the things

590
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: that you're saying to yourself and is that then playing

591
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: apart in your friendships. So now your friends are back

592
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: and I've had clients you have talked about. You know,

593
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: I want to hear these great experiences, but I'm also jealous,

594
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: and so I don't want to hear them either, And

595
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: that's okoy right to have those conflicting emotions. But it's

596
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: also important to know what that comes up for you,

597
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: what that means for you, and then how do you

598
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: work through that, Because if you're holding onto that and

599
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: that starts to bread some resentment within the group, or

600
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: you start to distance yourself from the group for days

601
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: or weeks or whatever the cases, then yeah, now you're

602
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: adding to the uncomfortableness in the group. When you can

603
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: really start to have these conversations and it can be Yeah,

604
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: it really sucked that I couldn't be there, but I

605
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: would love to see the pictures and I would love

606
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: to hear the stories, and maybe next time I can

607
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: be there. M m m m mmmm. So is that

608
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: something we should be paying attention to, just knowing that,

609
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, people may be in different places in their

610
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: money journeys within a group of friends. Should we be

611
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: sensitive to the idea that maybe everybody can afford an

612
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 1: international trip or maybe everybody can afford go into weekly

613
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, five star restaurants kinds of things, Like should

614
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: we be having and convening in a variety of different

615
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: ways so that we don't like burden one person with

616
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: either the feeling like they're always going to be left

617
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: out or making somebody feel like they always have to

618
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: like overextend their budget. M H. I think it's it's

619
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: important for any friendship that you're able to recognize when

620
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: somebody can or can't do something. And that's with any area.

621
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: And so if you have a friend or a couple

622
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: of friends who are making way less than you are,

623
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 1: then it's okay to have that conversation if there's been

624
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: an intention set right and you're not gonna blindside them, like, hey,

625
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: are you too broke to come here? You want to

626
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: be a lot nicer than that, You want to have

627
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: some tapped and so it's okay to just check in.

628
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: And I will say to you, I think it's important

629
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: to recognize who's celebrating what right, Like is this something

630
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: that we do every week, like a brunch at a

631
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: five star restaurant aunt, or is this maybe you once

632
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 1: in a while kind of thing we're celebrating, and if

633
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: it's my thing, then I want to celebrate here, and

634
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: I may have to recognize that some people may not

635
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: be able to attend. And then do I extend an

636
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: invitation to do something else later, or do I just

637
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: say no, that person can't attend and they just can't attend.

638
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: And I think that just depends on the dynamics of

639
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: who all is involved in what that person may or

640
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: may not want to do. But in having those conversations

641
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: with friends, it is important not to just assume that

642
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: somebody can or can't do something. And so that's why

643
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: it's important to start those money conversations when there's not

644
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: a whole lot of stuff going on, like you mentioned,

645
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, I just want to be more mindful

646
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: about my own finances and other people's finances. And so

647
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: if you can't do something, and we can do something

648
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: separately together, or we do something free where somebody cooks

649
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: at the house or we order take out or something,

650
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: then we'll do that. I think it just depends on

651
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: what those dynamic it look like and what that person

652
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: wants to do. I think it's just realistic to know

653
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: that everybody can't do everything, because again, that goes back

654
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: to budget. That person just may not be able to

655
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: do it, and that could be because finances or their

656
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: income is low, or it could be because they have

657
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: some sort of money goal, right, Like there are people

658
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: who are saving for a down payment, and that may

659
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: mean that they can't do certain things as often as

660
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: they used to because they have a financial goal. And

661
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, sometimes you're just gonna have to be comfortable

662
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: and okay with being left out, But it is important

663
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: to recognize how you feel about that and what you're

664
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: saying about yourself when that happens. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And

665
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: I think that's a nice way to kind of reimagine

666
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: how we celebrate things because I think this often comes

667
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: up around stuff like weddings, right when you are like

668
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: asked to be a bridesmaid, and then you know, it

669
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: feels like every year we add some new celebration that

670
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: the bridesmaids are expected to be. So you gotta be

671
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: at the wedding. You gotta get your head done, you

672
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: gotta get your makeup done, you gotta have this certain

673
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: dressing shoes, and you gotta also come to the bachelorette weekend.

674
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: Then you gotta come to you my sprinkle or you know,

675
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: all of these different things, and I think it is important,

676
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: you know, like fine, celebrate however you want. But I

677
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: also think having the expectation that people be at all

678
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: of those things really is sometimes not considerate of like

679
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: what people's money goals might be. Yeah, so can you

680
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: look at different ways to kind of celebrate things? And

681
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: I love to hear from you suggestions for things you

682
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: can do to like cultivate friendships and even relationships that

683
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: don't cost a lot of money, right, because it does

684
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: feel like we kind of automatically go to the brunch,

685
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: we want to go to the museum, we want to

686
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: go to the trip. What kinds of things can people

687
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: do that actually don't cost a lot of money or

688
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: no money at all? Yeah, anything outside you can do

689
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: the picnics. I love picnics. And it's starting to watch

690
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm in St. Louis and so it's tarting to be

691
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: a little bit colder. So I enjoy intimate conversations, whether

692
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: it's about relationships or money or anything. And so let's

693
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: sit down with the glass of wine and some cheese

694
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: spreads and crackers or whatever, and let's just talk. Let's

695
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: catch up let's just you know, watch a movie or

696
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: whatever the cases, you could do game nights. I always

697
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: tell people go back to your childhood, the things that

698
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: you love to do as a child that were that

699
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: was pretty going for walk, spending time outside, like I said,

700
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: having a game night, or a movie night, a book club.

701
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: All of those things are things that you can do

702
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: that don't necessarily cost a lot of money. They can

703
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: be very cheap or free. Having a pot look, just

704
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: anything like that. And even if you want to do that,

705
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: that as a challenge, right, a week or thirty days

706
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: of not spending money, or let's let's hang out and

707
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: not spend over whatever certain amount of money and see

708
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: what we can do and have that be fun. Just

709
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: getting to know each other again in a different kind

710
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: of way. Is I think it's great. I think it's

711
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: a really good thing to do, and it doesn't have

712
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: to cost money. So let's talk about lending money to friends.

713
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: So is this something that you I'm sure as a

714
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: therapist you're not gonna say yes or knows it, by

715
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: the way, but what kinds of things should we consider?

716
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: What kind of conversation should we have around whether we're

717
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: gonna lend money? To friends or even asking friends to

718
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: borrow money. M hmm. If you're not going to miss it,

719
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: you can do it. And I would encourage it to

720
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: be a gift, not alone. So if you can part

721
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: ways with the amount and it doesn't, like I said,

722
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: set you back a lot and you don't need that

723
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: money back, then just make it a gift. And if

724
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: that's not the case, then I say, just don't do

725
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: it at all. And I think it would be a

726
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: good challenge for yourself in creating a boundary or having

727
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: a money conversation with somebody. The other thing that comes

728
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 1: up in my sessions with clients too, is is really

729
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: recognizing another person's limitation and seeing them for who they are,

730
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: even if it may not be in a positive light.

731
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: And so if you have a family member, and that's

732
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: usually with my clients, that too. It is not so

733
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: much a friend, but it's usually with a family member

734
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: who will ask to borrow money and then they never

735
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: give it back. And so there's conversations that you know,

736
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: I'll have with clients around Okay, if this is now

737
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: a pattern, then what is going on with you that

738
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: makes you overlook it, that makes you want to give

739
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: in to it. What's that money stript that you're telling

740
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: about yourself if you don't lend that money, if you

741
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: don't give that money, And then what are you saying

742
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: about the other person when that other person doesn't give

743
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: the money back? And so those are things that we

744
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: navigate in our sessions together, and that can be really

745
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: tough when it's somebody that they care about who doesn't

746
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: give them the money back. And I think for a

747
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: lot of people, if they then see that person later

748
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: and they're going on a trip or they're spending money,

749
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: you know, doing something else that's not a necessity, then

750
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: again that breeds some resentment, right, right, So that can

751
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: be a very touchy subject. Yeah, I think that's really

752
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: important to hold onto you, right, like the idea of

753
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: like can this be a gift? And if it's not

754
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: a gift and you find yourself kind of repeatedly loaning

755
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: money to somebody who doesn't repay you, like, what's going

756
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: on with you there? Like what's happening in your relationship

757
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: with yourself? Honestly? Yeah? Yeah, So this has been such

758
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: great information, Liquisha. Are there any resources that you kind

759
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: of find yourself recommending over and over to your clients

760
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: that you think would be helpful for our community as well.

761
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: I really like somatic work because it really engages people

762
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: to to go deeper and within the body and to

763
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: recognize what happens with their body when anything comes up, right,

764
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: whether it's trauma or money or this particular person or

765
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: whatever comes up. The more that you can get in

766
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: touch with your body, the more that you can listen

767
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: to what's going on with you, the better and tunes

768
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: you can be in making decisions, both money and relationships

769
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And so I think there's a

770
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: lot of information out there around the practical things to

771
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: do with money, but there's not a whole lot of information. Well,

772
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: I take that back, there's not a whole lot of

773
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: encouragement around seeking your relationship with money and what emotions

774
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: come up for you when it comes to money, And

775
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: so I would encourage people to start there and just

776
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: really paying attention to what happens, how do I react

777
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: when I'm thinking about money in different aspects of money.

778
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: Love that and please share your website as well as

779
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: any social media handles that you'd like to share with

780
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: our community. My website is Love and Money Therapy dot

781
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: me and just seek me out. I don't do a

782
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: lot of social media. I know that that's weird in

783
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: this day, but I just I just don't. But I

784
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: am always open to having conversations teaching people to dig

785
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper in their relationship with money, and

786
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: I am always here. So yeah, find me, stick me

787
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: out perfect. We will be sure to include that in

788
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: the show notes. Thank you so much, Luquisha. I really

789
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you, Thank you so much. You have

790
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: a good one. I'm so glad Luquisha was able to

791
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: share her expertise with us today. To learn more about

792
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: her work, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black

793
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash session to thirty four, and don't

794
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: forget to text two of your girls and tell them

795
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: to check out the episode as well. If you're looking

796
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area, be sure to check

797
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot

798
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging

799
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: into this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

800
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

801
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for

802
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at Community dot therapy

803
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: for black Girls dot com. Thank you all so much

804
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: for joining me again this week. I look forward to

805
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 1: continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take

806
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: get care,