Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nerdificent from Home.
Speaker 1: I am one half of your host, Danny Fernandez, and
Speaker 1: sitting across from me on the virtual space is if
Speaker 1: you want anyway, how's it going, Danny, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1: I'm feeling good. I feel you know, it's a long
Speaker 1: road of ups and downs, but for mental health may
Speaker 1: we've gotten a lot of great feedback on our episodes.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that they are educating people and opening up
Speaker 1: you know, some people's perceptions about therapy and alternative treatments. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: not to cut you off, but I have to. Now
Speaker 1: that she's pointed that out, I'm going to read something
Speaker 1: from the discord. VI King said that the podcasts that
Speaker 1: we've released have have pushed him, and now he's contacted,
Speaker 1: he's gonna get therapy, he's gonna talk to you. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that made me feel good. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, thanks. And then other people have been doing
Speaker 1: nice little mental health things like keeping a law journal,
Speaker 1: um for for like for habit breaking stuff. So you know,
Speaker 1: lots of it's been um it's been uh been great. Yes,
Speaker 1: several people wrote me that it changed how they looked
Speaker 1: at trauma, like that conversation where I was saying that
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily one traumatic event. It can be a
Speaker 1: bunch of small events, like having a family member that
Speaker 1: neglected you, like a parent, or you know, a relationship
Speaker 1: where it was like several things that might seem like
Speaker 1: well they called me dumb or they said this, but
Speaker 1: it's like overtime that adds up to trauma in your brain. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, so good. But today we're talking about something
Speaker 1: very interesting, right we are. We're talking about E M
Speaker 1: D R. Not too already forgot what is the electronic
Speaker 1: music medium. I could see Kevin, our guest, who like
Speaker 1: mouthing it for me, getting it confused. Um, I was
Speaker 1: going to be like speaking of trauma. Our guests this
Speaker 1: week is television writer, producer, show runner, co creator of
Speaker 1: Cougar Town, creator been listed. I like to think of
Speaker 1: him as the a dad on the internet, Kevin Beagle,
Speaker 1: my dad or a daddy because someone daddy Kevin. I
Speaker 1: think that's cool. I would stay with those blue eyes
Speaker 1: definitely both. All right, Well, I'm very happy to be here.
Speaker 1: I love I I weirdly but honestly love talking about
Speaker 1: trauma because I think it's so I think it's a great,
Speaker 1: great thing you guys are doing here. Thank you. That
Speaker 1: sound like a dad by the way, I think the
Speaker 1: great thing you guys are doing here, you and Mike
Speaker 1: Roys Like, I feel like you're both very much you
Speaker 1: take on the role of being the dad's of the Internet,
Speaker 1: like you're constantly showing your smoked meats um and talking
Speaker 1: about your kids. But I think you look out for
Speaker 1: the rest of us that are like coming up, which
Speaker 1: is necessary. I feel like the rest of us that
Speaker 1: are breaking into the writing and the industry and it
Speaker 1: can be really vicious, and so I feel like we
Speaker 1: need mentors, and I feel like you're very much a
Speaker 1: mentor for many people, but also just collectively the Internet
Speaker 1: to say, I really do think that's it's it's what
Speaker 1: we have to do. And I mean we as like
Speaker 1: a collective kind of we anyone fortunate enough to be
Speaker 1: in a position like I'm in, Like I mean, someone
Speaker 1: gave me, multiple people gave me a shot and helped
Speaker 1: me out. So I mean, I feel like I feel
Speaker 1: like I didn't that I'd be I'd become the kind
Speaker 1: of person living in Los Angeles that I go, God,
Speaker 1: I can't stand those people, you know. So there's basically
Speaker 1: a lot. It's a lot of it's fueled by not
Speaker 1: wanting to hate myself, but there's a lot of genuine,
Speaker 1: you know, love and supporting. Also, they're like the industry
Speaker 1: and whatever you want to call it can't survive if
Speaker 1: it's a bunch true dudes like me who are writing
Speaker 1: all the stories like, you're also not old. I see you,
Speaker 1: I see you tweet that sometimes you are also not old.
Speaker 1: As your friend, this is my job to tell you
Speaker 1: these things. You are both a daddy and you're not old. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: we always start our podcast with what we're seeking out about,
Speaker 1: like anything that you're super into right now, Kevin, Do
Speaker 1: you have anything that you're geeking out about? Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with the second season of What We Do in
Speaker 1: the Shadows. It's like my favorite show comedy of the
Speaker 1: past couple of years, easily. Um. It's so funny that
Speaker 1: every actor on it is excellent, the writing is incredible,
Speaker 1: it's shot so well. I mean, I I that show
Speaker 1: is funny because the movie it's based on is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies, The Marvel Show that we did
Speaker 1: then it never went Actually, the whole that show The Conceit,
Speaker 1: and everything was based on that movie, even the style
Speaker 1: of it. So then when they said they were announcing
Speaker 1: this show, part of me is like, I hope it
Speaker 1: fails because we didn't make it, you know, like Dicky.
Speaker 1: But then I saw it's excellent, I mean, and everyone
Speaker 1: is so it's so funny. Um. Yeah, I love that show.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I'm watching right now it's
Speaker 1: not new um and I'm finally catching up as a Catastrophe.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've been wanting to catch up on that too.
Speaker 1: What about you, Ifi? What are you getting out about?
Speaker 1: For me? You know? Apex Legends has just introduced a
Speaker 1: new update and a new champion, new champion that I
Speaker 1: just can't get enough of, Loba who she was teased
Speaker 1: in the in the earlier kind of because there was
Speaker 1: another champion in the previous season called um uh it's
Speaker 1: it's it's very edgy. What is Revenant? Uh? And in
Speaker 1: like in the teaser you kind of get hints that
Speaker 1: this takes place before the events of the game and
Speaker 1: there's a little girl who looks very angry when her
Speaker 1: her family is killed because Revenant is a gun for
Speaker 1: hire who has had his mind taken out of his
Speaker 1: body so that it can be replicated in robots so
Speaker 1: that he has a million lives. And he finds out
Speaker 1: in that uh in that backstory, Apex Legends has a
Speaker 1: deep lore. Shout out to my friend uh Manny uh
Speaker 1: Gopien who writes on Apex Legends and Loba. I texted
Speaker 1: him the other day. I was like, hey, I got
Speaker 1: a question for Apex Legend. Was like, yeah, what's good.
Speaker 1: It's like, why do you make her so hot? Um?
Speaker 1: Because her name is Loba Andrade. I'll drop a link
Speaker 1: so everyone knows what I'm talking about. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: she she carries like a cane. She she has fun
Speaker 1: new abilities and they did a lot of fixing and
Speaker 1: balancing into the game and it's it's fun to play.
Speaker 1: I've been deep in it and uh, I cannot wait
Speaker 1: to for the Lobo cosplay, you know, putting yeah, more
Speaker 1: thick Latinos in the game. During this uh, during the
Speaker 1: uh during this teen um. The thing that I'm seeking
Speaker 1: out about is actually Joel and I and our friend
Speaker 1: Sabina super producer. Joel and I like we have a
Speaker 1: little Zoom running date that happens every weekend where we
Speaker 1: watch like several hours of a TV show together essentially.
Speaker 1: Also while I'm cooking and cleaning, um there there with
Speaker 1: me and we watched a fashion show with Tan France. Now,
Speaker 1: Tan France is one of the guys from Queer Eye,
Speaker 1: the newest edition of queer Ie, one of my favorites. Um.
Speaker 1: In fact, I find myself whenever I see him do something,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, Tanny because they call him Tanny in there,
Speaker 1: and I'm always like, that's my friend Tan. Um. Anyways,
Speaker 1: I'm so obsessed with him and have been that I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that he had a uh biography out, and
Speaker 1: so it's called Naturally Tan and Um. It talks about
Speaker 1: his you know, coming up and how he got to
Speaker 1: Queer Eye, and it's just really fascinating. One thing that
Speaker 1: I didn't know about him is he was making his
Speaker 1: own clothes at like fifteen, so it's like he's been
Speaker 1: wanting to do that and break into He's been doing
Speaker 1: it since like birth. Um. Also, he was saying, because
Speaker 1: his family isn't used to Western culture, that his dad
Speaker 1: bought him barbies in a Barbie house, not knowing like
Speaker 1: our you know, homophobia around stuff like that. That's incredible.
Speaker 1: He said his dad did it to show off to
Speaker 1: his cousin. He wanted to be like, well, look at
Speaker 1: the Christmas not Christmas whatever, it would have the equivalent.
Speaker 1: He was like, look at what I got him, and
Speaker 1: it was like barbies in a huge Barbie house. And
Speaker 1: he was like, it was like a dream. It was
Speaker 1: like the best. So yeah, anyways, I love I loved
Speaker 1: tan Um also very spicy. I thought that he was
Speaker 1: just like, oh, he's like the he's non confrontational and no,
Speaker 1: he's confrontational, but that's on audible. He narrates it. I
Speaker 1: love it and I love him. Oh that's really cool.
Speaker 1: I have two more things I forgot. I got two more.
Speaker 1: One is the show on Netflix called and it's it's
Speaker 1: a kid show, but we blew through the first season
Speaker 1: with a nine year old are called Keepo and the
Speaker 1: Wonder Beasts, and it's yeah and awesome. That show is great. Um,
Speaker 1: like the kind of big, weird fantasy stuff that like
Speaker 1: as a kid that you see you're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: am I the only person in the world's gonna like this,
Speaker 1: And then you find somebody else who likes it and
Speaker 1: it makes it that much more special it's great. Um
Speaker 1: so that that and I think the second season is
Speaker 1: coming out pretty soon as that. And then the other
Speaker 1: thing which isn't very new is I'm obsessed with Witch
Speaker 1: Or three and I need to honestly break the disk
Speaker 1: in half because I'm not getting anything done three in
Speaker 1: the morning. D yet I haven't that, I don't think
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't do it. And I'm so used
Speaker 1: to like like the Skyrie Me sort of you know,
Speaker 1: big open world stuff and fall Out where it's like
Speaker 1: there's clearly good and clearly bad, and in that game
Speaker 1: there's it's so morally great. It's like you think you
Speaker 1: do something good and then a whole children, a bunch
Speaker 1: of children die are like the people being in the
Speaker 1: forest that was mean, like now while the kids still
Speaker 1: have to eat him by the witches, like there's no
Speaker 1: you don't get to be like the big hero in
Speaker 1: that game, which is fascinating to and and it's also beautiful.
Speaker 1: So I'm i'm, I'm. I'm kind of losing way too
Speaker 1: much sleep and worktime corunning around with Gerald and maybe
Speaker 1: now I can watch the show on Netflix and sort
Speaker 1: of understanding because I tried to watch it before it
Speaker 1: was just it was just too much. What's your lure is? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And now now I bet I could sit down like
Speaker 1: all that serials. Yeah, it was like there she is.
Speaker 1: Today we are talking about another great transition. E M
Speaker 1: d R. It stands for Eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. UM.
Speaker 1: It's fairly new, nontraditional type of psychotherapy. It's growing in popularity,
Speaker 1: particularly for treating PTSD. At first glance, it appears to
Speaker 1: approach psychological issues in an unusual way. It doesn't rely
Speaker 1: on talk therapy, although they're often combined. I think sometimes
Speaker 1: it's necessary. Um. But e M d R uses a
Speaker 1: patient's own rapid rhythmic i'm movements. These eye movements dampened
Speaker 1: the power of emotionally charged memories of past traumatic events.
Speaker 1: That's some that's some wild stuff. I mean, we're going
Speaker 1: to get into what that means. We just listed off
Speaker 1: a bunch of words. Yeah. But but but stick with us.
Speaker 1: Let's let's go into the history and try and help
Speaker 1: you out. So M d R therapy was first developed
Speaker 1: by Francine Shapiro, upon noticing that certain eye movements reduced
Speaker 1: the intensity of disturbing thought. She then conducted a scientific
Speaker 1: study with trauma victims in the year me and Danny
Speaker 1: were born, and the research was published in the Journal
Speaker 1: of Traumatic Stress in nineteen eighty nine. Her hypothesis was
Speaker 1: that when a traumatic or distressing experience occurs, it may
Speaker 1: overwhelm normal coping mechanisms, with with the memory and associated
Speaker 1: stimuli being inact, inadequately processed and stored in the isolated
Speaker 1: memory network. Schapire also noted that when she was experiencing
Speaker 1: a disturbing thought, her eyes would involuntarily move rapidly. She
Speaker 1: further noted that her anxiety was reduced when she brought
Speaker 1: her eye movements under voluntary control while thinking a traumatic thought.
Speaker 1: Shapiro developed E M d R therapy for post traumatic
Speaker 1: stress disorder. She speculated that traumatic events upset the excitatory
Speaker 1: inhibitory balance in the brain, causing a pathological change in
Speaker 1: neural elements more words, lots that There's a lot of information,
Speaker 1: but I feel like that was a little easier to
Speaker 1: digest kind of hearing the history of it, because you
Speaker 1: kind of get they kind of laid out the hypothesis
Speaker 1: really well as to why you would do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I wanted to say that Kevin and I are
Speaker 1: both doing different ones. There's several different ways to do
Speaker 1: E M D are based on what's right for you
Speaker 1: and also the psychiatrists that you're seeing. So Kevin, I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask, like, how did you how did you
Speaker 1: find this? Um So I was I had been in
Speaker 1: therapy prior to starting MB are near ten years or so,
Speaker 1: UM and I think I hid, I know, think I
Speaker 1: know I hit that sort of plateau or I just
Speaker 1: felt like I was in therapy and kind of talking
Speaker 1: and talking and not working through issues so much and
Speaker 1: for and that can be wonderful community, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: hitting the core traumatic memories and experiences that I had,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't really I wasn't moving along with them.
Speaker 1: UM So, I can't remember who it was that suggested
Speaker 1: E M b R. I actually, yes, I do. I
Speaker 1: know who it was exactly as my wife, UM because
Speaker 1: my wife went to school to be a therapist and
Speaker 1: she had heard about this and she said, why don't
Speaker 1: you look into it? And there was uh someone who
Speaker 1: is very well regarded here in Los Angeles UM therapist
Speaker 1: and I wrote her and she took me in and
Speaker 1: it was actually a therapist who by a weird connection
Speaker 1: my wife's therapist, uh that she had taught with new
Speaker 1: So like there I wasn't a stranger coming off the street, um,
Speaker 1: and and just started from there. I've been doing it
Speaker 1: for about two years now, and I had to basically
Speaker 1: stopped seeing the last the therapist and switched to the
Speaker 1: new one, which was weirdly. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: ever had to like basically say goodbye to a therapist.
Speaker 1: It's such a strange, like it should be easy, but
Speaker 1: it's not. And this was made stranger because she didn't
Speaker 1: want me to go, and she was, well, maybe can
Speaker 1: even coming twice a week and and and you can't.
Speaker 1: You don't have to tell her about me. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this seems weird, Like that's going with the new agent.
Speaker 1: It's like being an agent and going with a new agent.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't, I don't think I should.
Speaker 1: I should be here anymore if we're having this conversation.
Speaker 1: So I kind of like, you know, kind of like
Speaker 1: got out of there. And and she don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: she was wonderful, but I think our time had the
Speaker 1: relationship was over. And yeah, that's how we started with
Speaker 1: the emdr that's why I can't get over that because well,
Speaker 1: and I've I've seen a lot of therapists too. I
Speaker 1: kind of we talked about it like that. It's dating.
Speaker 1: You know, you're trying to find your right one that
Speaker 1: works for you. But I just can't imagine my therapist
Speaker 1: liking me and my problem so much that they want
Speaker 1: to hang onto them. It's a really it is such
Speaker 1: a strange thing because you're basically you're right. It is
Speaker 1: like auditioning people are dating them because you don't if
Speaker 1: you if you're trying, like I'm someone and maybe you
Speaker 1: are too. That was very open to going in and
Speaker 1: talking about the stuff I was trying to deal because
Speaker 1: I was like, I need help. And if someone isn't
Speaker 1: that open to the experience and they go in and
Speaker 1: they sit down with somebody, there's no guarantee that first
Speaker 1: person to sit down, or the second person or the
Speaker 1: third is going to be the right fit. And to
Speaker 1: kind of try to convince them, no, you have to
Speaker 1: there's other people, there's different ways. That's that's a hard
Speaker 1: buy for people because they kind of feel like, you know, well,
Speaker 1: the mechanic didn't fix my car, so I'm selling the car.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, you are the car like go
Speaker 1: to place, terrible metaphor like, so, uh yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: thank god that and I really mean that. The two
Speaker 1: therapists I've had where I was good fits with them
Speaker 1: and they were good fits with me, because yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's a tough that's that's hard. It's really hard when
Speaker 1: it's not a right fit. Yeah. I wanted to get
Speaker 1: into what an actual session is. So some can last
Speaker 1: up to ninety minutes. Essentially, your therapist will move his
Speaker 1: or hor his or her fingers back and forth in
Speaker 1: front of your face and ask you to follow these
Speaker 1: hand motions with your eyes. At the same time, the
Speaker 1: e m D the e m D R therapist will
Speaker 1: have you recall a disturbing event. We'll get into that
Speaker 1: because that's extremely traumatic. Uh. This will include the emotions
Speaker 1: and body sensations that go along with it. Some therapists
Speaker 1: use alternatives to finger movements, such as hard or toe
Speaker 1: hand or toe tapping, or musical tones. Now I know
Speaker 1: yours is a little bit different. Kevin, can you talk
Speaker 1: about when you first what your first session was like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so, it was very really interesting. I think
Speaker 1: it's really important to stress as we're talking about the
Speaker 1: m d R UM and this is my personal experience.
Speaker 1: You can't speak for anybody else, but if you're going
Speaker 1: into look look at doing it. You don't want if
Speaker 1: you go into a new therapist and you do it,
Speaker 1: you don't want to do it the first session, Like,
Speaker 1: that's not the way to do it. You have to
Speaker 1: build up the m d R kind of experience. And
Speaker 1: there's a whole process that goes there. You know that
Speaker 1: it's basically I met with my therapist probably for a
Speaker 1: solid month, you know, once a week. UM, she's getting
Speaker 1: my history, getting the history of my trauma and stuff
Speaker 1: that I was the kind of presenting her with UM
Speaker 1: and then even beyond. And that's just kind of normal
Speaker 1: therapist talk. But the thing that's very specific to m
Speaker 1: d R as I had it was then you're also
Speaker 1: to gear up to these e m d R sessions.
Speaker 1: You're building this sort of mental safe space if this
Speaker 1: makes sense, and you're populating it with people who have
Speaker 1: you have zero issues other than pure support and love.
Speaker 1: So mine and I'll expose this part. My my mental
Speaker 1: safe space to go to was my garage, because the
Speaker 1: garage has no other issues outside of it. It's like
Speaker 1: this big nerdy garage full of movie posters that I
Speaker 1: watched films in. I have friends over to watch them,
Speaker 1: like I just sitting there and play skyro them like
Speaker 1: an idiot, and you know, everyone tells me to turn
Speaker 1: the volume down, like it's just pure joy being in there,
Speaker 1: and and it literally does feel safe. It's cozy. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of a mental mental starting place for these sessions.
Speaker 1: And then I've populated it with people and I've taught
Speaker 1: you know, we go in therapy, we go through who
Speaker 1: are these people? Doesn't have to be a lot um.
Speaker 1: Who are pure people and influences in your life that
Speaker 1: you basically want their uh. And as you're thinking about
Speaker 1: this um to be behind you, imagine they're kind of
Speaker 1: surrounding you that they've got when someone's got their hand
Speaker 1: on your shoulder and you're just you're surrounded by people
Speaker 1: who love you and you love them, UM, and you
Speaker 1: get those and you talk about why those people are important.
Speaker 1: So you're I'm in the I mean so mentally you
Speaker 1: kind of build this place up where I'm in my
Speaker 1: garage and I've got people around me that I care
Speaker 1: about UM and trust me when the first time I
Speaker 1: did this, I'm like, this sounds insane, Like this does
Speaker 1: not This doesn't sound like therapy of this sounds like,
Speaker 1: you know, someone's waving a crystal over my head, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're chanting around me. Um. But anyhow, so I
Speaker 1: sat on the couch and the therapist in front of me,
Speaker 1: and she had these two little devices that she could
Speaker 1: control that pulsed and vibrated, and I, I, can you
Speaker 1: put them where around your body want? You just want
Speaker 1: to feel that vibration, very rhythmic vibration. And I had
Speaker 1: them and I put them underneath my legs, underneath my thighs,
Speaker 1: and basically before we started the e MDR session, we
Speaker 1: pinpointed kind of one specific moment that was kind of
Speaker 1: a core for a lot of the trauma that I
Speaker 1: was dealing with. And in a specific moment for me
Speaker 1: was I was dealing with a lot of trauma still
Speaker 1: because a little over ten years ago, out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: I had a heart attack almost killed me. Doctors all
Speaker 1: said it should have killed me and I and I
Speaker 1: had no way of coping with that reality. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was just I couldn't shut off that switch that
Speaker 1: said you should be dead. I just couldn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: and it come back to me all the time, and
Speaker 1: just if theyn't even thinking about it would scare the
Speaker 1: crap out of me. And it was it was very
Speaker 1: it's hard to deal with. UM. So the core memory
Speaker 1: one of them at least, that was a big signifier
Speaker 1: of this stuff and would literally kind of cause me
Speaker 1: the tense up and shoulders would go up. Was when
Speaker 1: I got a phone call from a heart doctor that said,
Speaker 1: you're you need heart surgery immediately. Um, we need to
Speaker 1: put a stent in you, or we need to do
Speaker 1: angioplastic um. You've got a major blockage blocked in the back.
Speaker 1: It's the basically the thing that they called a widow
Speaker 1: maker that kills people like that and I'm out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: It was a Friday night. I was at home meeting pizza, Like,
Speaker 1: I was like, what, so I'm sitting at my desk,
Speaker 1: I take this phone call. So that was kind of
Speaker 1: that and I could never think about that call without
Speaker 1: those things I just talked about, you know, going like this,
Speaker 1: my face getting flushed, just you know, classic traumatic reaction,
Speaker 1: and that would right into other places of my life.
Speaker 1: So basically I've got these little buzzing things underneath my legs.
Speaker 1: She goes, okay, you know, however you want to do this.
Speaker 1: Do you want to keep your eyes open? Close and whatever.
Speaker 1: I wanted to close and close my eyes, and she said,
Speaker 1: go through them in and tell me what you see.
Speaker 1: So I went through the memory and it went through it.
Speaker 1: First time I went through it was pretty basic, and
Speaker 1: in my mind's eye, I was picturing what I saw then.
Speaker 1: And what I saw then was me sitting at my desk,
Speaker 1: you know, my my eyes looking down and writing a
Speaker 1: pad with red notes. You know what the doctor was saying.
Speaker 1: I was seeing my point of you. So she went
Speaker 1: through the whole thing and she goes, okay, now it's
Speaker 1: how did you know? Questions? How did that make you feel?
Speaker 1: How does this make you feel telling it? I told her, Okay,
Speaker 1: now let's go through it again. Things are still vibrating
Speaker 1: underneath my legs, my eyes are still shut. I go
Speaker 1: through it again. This time. When I go through it,
Speaker 1: I'm a little angrier when I tell the story. It's
Speaker 1: frustrating me more. All the stuff is bubbling up, same things.
Speaker 1: Why are you angry in it? Right now? Let's talk
Speaker 1: about that go with that. Next time, she goes, okay,
Speaker 1: let's hear it again. Okay, go through the third time.
Speaker 1: The third time, as I'm telling it, that's when let
Speaker 1: the tears start, you know, and oh, my God, gonna die.
Speaker 1: I want to die. I don't want to be not
Speaker 1: around for my wife or my kids. This is awful.
Speaker 1: Um go through it again and then the same questions again.
Speaker 1: And this is where it gets the magic part for me,
Speaker 1: at least happened and why I'm the biggest proponent of
Speaker 1: it ever and I know it works, at least in
Speaker 1: my case. She goes, go through it again. Fourth time.
Speaker 1: I go through it, not crying as much this time,
Speaker 1: but the well, I swear to God. The strangest thing happened.
Speaker 1: My point of view in my mind's eye, eyes were
Speaker 1: shut as I'm telling a story. And I didn't even
Speaker 1: think about this until it was happening. And after it happened,
Speaker 1: my point of view was no longer me looking straight down.
Speaker 1: Now I was me. I was looking at the back
Speaker 1: of my head, sitting at a desk. I was looking
Speaker 1: at me, seeing at that desk. And as I went
Speaker 1: through it slowly, it's like a camera shot slowly the
Speaker 1: camera started to pull back and I saw not just
Speaker 1: the back of my head, I saw my shoulders. I
Speaker 1: saw the back of the chair, I saw the desk
Speaker 1: in front of me. And as I told the story,
Speaker 1: I was a little lighter as I told it, I
Speaker 1: wasn't as heavy one as it wasn't as crying as much.
Speaker 1: It was still sort of hazier on the edge is
Speaker 1: of the images that I saw. We talked about why
Speaker 1: I felt that way, and she goes, okay, now do
Speaker 1: it again. And then as I told it this fifth
Speaker 1: or sixth or seventh time, I don't even know how long,
Speaker 1: because it was one of those nine minute a hundred
Speaker 1: minute sessions. I swear to God, this happened as I
Speaker 1: as I tell a story this last time, the camera
Speaker 1: in my mind's eyes comes around, and now I was
Speaker 1: looking at myself in my mental image of this memory,
Speaker 1: I was no longer my p O V looking at
Speaker 1: that piece of paper. I was looking at me, hearing
Speaker 1: this news, seeing me back then, and my immediate reaction
Speaker 1: to that as I started probably one of the hardest
Speaker 1: times I've ever laughed in my entire life. I started
Speaker 1: laughing so hard in the middle of the of the session,
Speaker 1: and as I'm and she's like, don't stop. Go through
Speaker 1: and I can't stop laughing. And I'm seeing this guy
Speaker 1: here whose life is just has just broken in a
Speaker 1: way he could never have anticipated every feory ever had
Speaker 1: because I grew up with a huge fear of death
Speaker 1: and stuff in my family. Every fear has just been confirmed.
Speaker 1: He thinks he's gonna die. And I'm laughing my ass
Speaker 1: off and I get through it, and I'm and my
Speaker 1: point of view is now looking at me, and she says,
Speaker 1: why you're laughing, And I said, because I'm that idiot
Speaker 1: has no idea the amount of ship he's gonna have
Speaker 1: to put up with for the next ten years of
Speaker 1: his life dealing with this right now. He has no
Speaker 1: idea what's in store for him. Like he is just
Speaker 1: like still got pizza on his face, like what's going on?
Speaker 1: And and and it was the most incredible thing. Went
Speaker 1: through it again, and this perspective stayed that way. I
Speaker 1: was now looking at myself. Session was over, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: come out of it. The vibration sort of stops. I'm
Speaker 1: absolutely exhausted, exhausted, and I don't mean like I mean
Speaker 1: like mentally exhausted. I felt like I just run a marathon.
Speaker 1: And she's like, go home, don't drink, you have a
Speaker 1: snack and get a good night's sleep. Okay, this is weird,
Speaker 1: magic trick thing that just happened. And I go home.
Speaker 1: And then that was about a year and a half
Speaker 1: a go. It has been I have I have never
Speaker 1: once thought about that specific memory again and had it
Speaker 1: be terrifying or scary or have that power over me
Speaker 1: that it used to have. Now because of what the
Speaker 1: MDR has done, and as I've sort of tried to
Speaker 1: understand the science that was such a huge traumatic memory,
Speaker 1: and you guys spoke of it when you were describing this.
Speaker 1: Your body can't process something that's severe right away, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't even know how to store it. So it's
Speaker 1: almost like it's just like let's shove it in your
Speaker 1: and it's just sitting in parts of your brain affecting
Speaker 1: other things, affecting other memories, other decisions, other emotions. And
Speaker 1: what E m d R does is basically kind of
Speaker 1: compartment compartmentalize it, compartmentalize that they can't talk, and puts
Speaker 1: it in a place where you can understand what that
Speaker 1: moment was but also for me, understand, I'm not that
Speaker 1: person anymore. I'm the person now, I'm the person who's
Speaker 1: put the work into myself and it's still gonna have
Speaker 1: to keep putting their working to myself. But I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not that the And I use this term specifically
Speaker 1: just for me, and I don't mean to usual anybody else,
Speaker 1: but um, I'm not that victim anymore of that circumstance.
Speaker 1: I'm someone who survived that and I'm on the I'm
Speaker 1: still surviving it. And that's that was that. That was
Speaker 1: one experience with E. M. D R. With an actual session,
Speaker 1: and that's It's insane how it has basically taken a
Speaker 1: real traumatic memory and moment and not made me scared
Speaker 1: of it anymore, and not made me live in fear
Speaker 1: of it and live and fear of bringing it up.
Speaker 1: And I can at times laugh at it because that's mine,
Speaker 1: Like that's that was my story. Like I don't I'm
Speaker 1: not a slave to that story anymore. That's me, that
Speaker 1: existed in my head and now it's part of me,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't rule me, and it's just it is.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't tense up or anything when I
Speaker 1: think about it anymore. And that was that was the
Speaker 1: first big one we did, and there's been a number
Speaker 1: of them since then. Some of them were hard stuff,
Speaker 1: some of them were other things in my life that
Speaker 1: I've kind of went through and and and I am
Speaker 1: dealing with and dealt with. But and there's been a
Speaker 1: couple other that were that that visually stunning as far
Speaker 1: as how it changed my perception of things. So I
Speaker 1: actually have questions about your first one. I have a
Speaker 1: bunch of questions, but We're going to take a really
Speaker 1: quick break and then I'm going to ask you all
Speaker 1: these right after this and we're back. I wanted to
Speaker 1: say you and I actually talked about, uh, the show
Speaker 1: that I had sold to HBO Max that was about
Speaker 1: life after my suicide attempt, which is the same thing.
Speaker 1: I thought it was the funniest thing when I woke
Speaker 1: up that. I mean, it's very dark, and this is
Speaker 1: why we're all comedy writers, but I thought it was
Speaker 1: so hilarious that I, uh, I felt like I was
Speaker 1: a failure at everything, and I also failed doing this,
Speaker 1: and that to me was so dark but funny, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's just little. Actually, everybody in my crisis
Speaker 1: group also had that like sense of humor. We would
Speaker 1: just laugh about things that you're not supposed to laugh about,
Speaker 1: like your heart attack and other stuff. Um, but it's
Speaker 1: very unique to us, and I feel it's very healing.
Speaker 1: So I know that can be hard for some people
Speaker 1: to understand, but I do feel there's a huge portion
Speaker 1: of people, especially comedy people. Comedy comes from pain and trauma.
Speaker 1: So why a lot of comedians that had rough childhoods?
Speaker 1: I will on the sleep you didn't have one. I
Speaker 1: don't know how, I don't. I think you should choose
Speaker 1: a different job. It also not that I would ever
Speaker 1: want wish this would happen to me or you upon anyone,
Speaker 1: but it definitely. I mean I can even we've we've
Speaker 1: never talked before, you know, face to face, right, We've
Speaker 1: been friends online but never talked before, immediately you can
Speaker 1: sense when somebody else has had that kind of experience.
Speaker 1: It's traumatic because it's like, oh, there's a short emotional
Speaker 1: shorthand already was, but you feel like you're more open
Speaker 1: with people, Like it's really interesting how that can form
Speaker 1: a bond very quickly, which I think is very It's
Speaker 1: it's fascinating and I think you're right and this and
Speaker 1: I can see why E M d R has becomes
Speaker 1: such a big thing with the soldiers coming back, because
Speaker 1: you know, how do you talk about these things that
Speaker 1: you don't even want to talk about or even or
Speaker 1: even think about. This is it's a it's an amazing
Speaker 1: technique that can kind of help to heal you, Kevin. So,
Speaker 1: can you talk to me about the thigh whatever? The vibrators?
Speaker 1: So is she moving that? Are you telling her to
Speaker 1: move them? So basically you kind of set it up
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the E M d R session.
Speaker 1: They're two kind of little vibrating rhythmic things. Um, Kevin's
Speaker 1: dirty comedy brain is going to certain places. But she's
Speaker 1: increasing the dosage right or like she can? She can,
Speaker 1: she can definitely, she can definitely adjust the intensity of them,
Speaker 1: how how hard that, how how hard they kind of vibrate,
Speaker 1: and how quickly that they have very but if it's
Speaker 1: like one hard one hard one hard one or heart
Speaker 1: slow slow slow, Um, And there is so the E
Speaker 1: M d R I do. I can't remember the specific name.
Speaker 1: It's called. It's like touch sensitive E M d R.
Speaker 1: To gets upset of of d E M D r
Speaker 1: And this one was discovered by someone who they were
Speaker 1: literally out for a walk one day and they noticed
Speaker 1: that the bipedal motion of their feet on the ground
Speaker 1: had an effect on a memory they were thinking of,
Speaker 1: and they took that little moment of inspiration and developed
Speaker 1: this entire system. So basically it I think it helps
Speaker 1: in kind of rewiring your brain because the sensation, the input,
Speaker 1: it's not just visual, it's not just memory. There's actually
Speaker 1: a touch feeling to it too. You're using more senses
Speaker 1: I think. Don't quote me on that. I'm not a scientist.
Speaker 1: I write fart jokes for living um so. But she
Speaker 1: controls the vibrations and sometimes they get more intent, sometimes less,
Speaker 1: but usually it keeps kind of like a steady pace
Speaker 1: um And it's actually I find it very soothing actually
Speaker 1: to have these kind of things vibrating under underneath your
Speaker 1: like you don't even think about them after the first minute.
Speaker 1: They're just there. But it's just kind of like a
Speaker 1: gentle hum as you're as you're going through these um
Speaker 1: very very emotional like in and trigger and hard memories
Speaker 1: and things you you know, don't want to say or
Speaker 1: admit it. Somehow, it's almost like a comfort blanket. Like
Speaker 1: it's not the same thing, but I can almost see
Speaker 1: how this that feeling of like having a weighted blanket
Speaker 1: on you. There's a there's a similar to touch something
Speaker 1: to it. And another thing that's interesting about this is
Speaker 1: that Part and Parcel with the which is the new
Speaker 1: pilot I just sold ABC Part and Parcel. It's not
Speaker 1: a parcel company that also sells auto parts. Um it's say,
Speaker 1: I never know, I never know when you're kidding or not. Um, No,
Speaker 1: it's it's there's a thing called tapping. So and you've
Speaker 1: seen maybe Olympic athletes and stuff do this before race,
Speaker 1: where they'll tap their shoulders, tap their forehead. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a way of mentally prepared setting yourself. And the
Speaker 1: thing I've done and this thing that has really helped
Speaker 1: here is the same place that those vibration things that
Speaker 1: I take three MDR which is underneath my legs for
Speaker 1: memories that are profound memories or revelations or whatnot. Part
Speaker 1: of the therapy is you kind of and she got
Speaker 1: the therapist calls it tapping it in so like ten
Speaker 1: or twelve times, you just tap it on top of
Speaker 1: your thigh and it sounds silly, but in a weird way,
Speaker 1: it's almost like hitting the save button on a computer
Speaker 1: and it physically and the physical sensation. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to go, boy, I want to remember this forever. But
Speaker 1: there's something about doing that that it kind of for
Speaker 1: me at least locks it in. And I know that's
Speaker 1: part of the touch sensit of MDR therapy as well.
Speaker 1: Another thing I think, are you still doing Are you
Speaker 1: still doing E M d R or when did you? Oh? Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say it seems like it's something
Speaker 1: that like you would do for a short I just
Speaker 1: can't imagine because I'm currently doing it and we're gonna
Speaker 1: get into the one that I'm doing, but I can't
Speaker 1: imagine doing it for a year or so, Like are
Speaker 1: you still finding new breakthroughs? And I definitely. It's interesting
Speaker 1: you say that because I definitely am finding new breakthroughs
Speaker 1: about stuff, but it's about different things, and that a
Speaker 1: lot of the therapy has shifted to more traditional UM
Speaker 1: therapy sessions, which is great, not as E M d
Speaker 1: R specifically focused, but in those therapy sessions, every once
Speaker 1: in a while, stumble upon something that is like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is something to dig deeper about, Like there was
Speaker 1: a thing with with my family that I had never
Speaker 1: It's one of I'm sure you've had this before. It's
Speaker 1: the strangest thing where you're in there and you blurred
Speaker 1: out something in the middle of a session. You're like,
Speaker 1: especially the ones where like what am I going to
Speaker 1: talk about today? And it's like, ship, I got an
Speaker 1: ala to kill. I have to fill I have to
Speaker 1: fill the room with And then you say something, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, that's why this person treated me horribly growing
Speaker 1: up or whatever. It is like, how the hell did
Speaker 1: I never realized that? And there's it's very helpful to
Speaker 1: know that. Then there's a resource for me, that's the
Speaker 1: MDR that can then deal with those things. And I
Speaker 1: think you're right though. I think if you're going and
Speaker 1: it's totally fine if you're going in for a specific thing,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a soldier going in for uh,
Speaker 1: seeing your buddy almost killed or whatever, it is like, yes,
Speaker 1: that's great, you don't have to stick with it forever, um,
Speaker 1: But I just I like having that there. That was
Speaker 1: so funny because people asked me when I first started therapy,
Speaker 1: and I normally tell them Oh. It was when I
Speaker 1: was seventeen had an eating disorder just from bullying in school,
Speaker 1: and my parents put me in therapy. And then I'm like,
Speaker 1: unless you count, like I remember going to therapy when
Speaker 1: I was little, And then I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: think I was in therapy when I was little, but
Speaker 1: I like don't fully remember. I just remember being in
Speaker 1: the office, and like, you know, therapy is so different
Speaker 1: for kids, and I think it was mainly for my
Speaker 1: little brother, but it's also something that I haven't I
Speaker 1: have so much going on. I haven't even tackled that
Speaker 1: yet with my family. Uh so, Mom, if you're listening, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, I remember a highlights magazine in the
Speaker 1: office and me having to be there and talk to
Speaker 1: a lady. And then I was like, oh, but it's
Speaker 1: it's like we were saying, your brain literally to protect itself,
Speaker 1: will put those away. It was like you were saying,
Speaker 1: it will like compartment, it will like put that in
Speaker 1: a safe uh compartment. And why some of us need
Speaker 1: more than talk therapy. It's like we're hitting a wall.
Speaker 1: We're hitting like a boundary or something that like you
Speaker 1: just can't level up. In my opinion, I was like, so,
Speaker 1: I've done so much talk therapy. Why am I not
Speaker 1: floating at this point? Yeah, it's the hardest. I think
Speaker 1: you hit it exactly on the head. Is that the
Speaker 1: way was explained to me, and I've tried to educate
Speaker 1: myself about this more. There is there's there's big trauma
Speaker 1: and little trauma. Big traumas like the big stuff you
Speaker 1: think of, like the huge things that we've been talking about,
Speaker 1: but there's also a little trauma and little trauma can
Speaker 1: be the you know, why do you think you remember
Speaker 1: that kid who called who? Who called me fat? In
Speaker 1: third grade? Why would why would that memory stick with me? Random? Like, well, actually,
Speaker 1: if you dig into it, there's a reason for that.
Speaker 1: Like why does this little thing stay with me that
Speaker 1: my mom said to me when I was leaving for college.
Speaker 1: I don't know, oh ship? Yeah, I took that in
Speaker 1: a certain way and that that was indicative of something else.
Speaker 1: And those things are insidious because they are like little boxes.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately they're like little leaky boxes that then get
Speaker 1: their ship on everything else in your brain. And this
Speaker 1: is like a way of mopping mopping them up basically, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's what's so interesting and that's why. Like one
Speaker 1: of my favorite you know, comedy bits to do, whether
Speaker 1: it be an improverb in a dialogue, is when someone
Speaker 1: says when someone like mentions someone's first and last name
Speaker 1: as a retort, where it's like, yeah, yeah, I am
Speaker 1: strong Jim Jim Bakerson because everyone can relate to that
Speaker 1: one person who's first and last name. You remember who
Speaker 1: said that thing to you, And for some reason you're
Speaker 1: still hanging onto it. And and if you talk to
Speaker 1: a therapist they might let you know. But one thing
Speaker 1: I did want to talk about, how you were talking
Speaker 1: about how your brain compart to mentalize this is um,
Speaker 1: Danny knows this. I went down a hole during uh.
Speaker 1: You know, people have disassociative UH disorder, which you know
Speaker 1: was used to be known as multiple personality disorder. And
Speaker 1: watching them talk about that trauma, what goes through it
Speaker 1: a lot of times is they dissociate when they deal
Speaker 1: with the trauma because they attached. They create a new
Speaker 1: identity uh to who who they believe can handle that trauma.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times like it's interesting, there's lots
Speaker 1: of words it's worth checking out, like worth checking out,
Speaker 1: like out of sheer interests don't like go here to
Speaker 1: be like you know, like it. It's very interesting because
Speaker 1: they they really like break down there. Every you know,
Speaker 1: personality has a role. You have one like there are
Speaker 1: some people who like whenever it's sex and sex stuff,
Speaker 1: that's that personality. Whenever that it's it's dealing with the trauma,
Speaker 1: it's and it's usually the personality around it. It's built
Speaker 1: for it. So like a strong you know man personality
Speaker 1: can handle you know, because of our like patriarchal ideas
Speaker 1: of what can handle pain, you'll have like a man,
Speaker 1: a strong man, even in women or women identifying uh
Speaker 1: you know people with D I D will make that
Speaker 1: person the one who deals with the trauma. It's very
Speaker 1: interesting and it it also makes you marvel at our
Speaker 1: brains of like we are built to try and protect
Speaker 1: and defend ourselves from those things and so so much
Speaker 1: so that we will create a whole new person, you
Speaker 1: know to deal with that. Yeah, well I was going
Speaker 1: to say, um, I know you went down that rabbit
Speaker 1: hole if you and I don't know if you personally
Speaker 1: know anyone or Kevin, do you know anybody that is
Speaker 1: also doing M D RRE you like the only one
Speaker 1: out of your friends. UM, that's a good question because
Speaker 1: I I think I do as the answer I can say,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I'm Johnny open about every emotional thing
Speaker 1: because I don't. I feel like I like it, and
Speaker 1: I also feel like it gives me power over the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna talk about you. I don't care. UM.
Speaker 1: But I could never expect that from my friends. And
Speaker 1: so I know that some of them are. I know
Speaker 1: that's something new therapy, and I know that some of
Speaker 1: them do E, M, D R. But I don't know
Speaker 1: how deep they've gotten into this the session. And I've
Speaker 1: had friends come to me because I've talked about it
Speaker 1: online and said, hey, can you tell me about it?
Speaker 1: Can you recommend me to anybody? UM? And I have
Speaker 1: UM because I mean, if I wish that everybody could
Speaker 1: would could have this resource. I mean it's a very,
Speaker 1: very very I realize how fortunate I am to have this.
Speaker 1: So it's UM. And but the wonderful thing is that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of places that are starting to offer
Speaker 1: the services as because it's fairly new. UM. I know,
Speaker 1: like some of the vas are starting to do it
Speaker 1: more some of the uh, you know, if you look
Speaker 1: at look online. You can find therapists that don't charge
Speaker 1: a lot or just still trying to get their hours um,
Speaker 1: and you can get in there. But I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that one's trying to get their hours can do E M,
Speaker 1: d R. Because I think you have to be have,
Speaker 1: you have to be special. Um. But it's there's definitely
Speaker 1: more opportunities out there for people to do it. For me.
Speaker 1: It kind of at least your initial sessions. The way
Speaker 1: that I think of it is like it's the movie
Speaker 1: of your life and then they have you freeze on
Speaker 1: like the worst possible moment of your life. So it does,
Speaker 1: like you said, it takes you have to build up
Speaker 1: that resiliency. Um. It's like essentially if you're watching The
Speaker 1: Lion King and then just watch the part where move
Speaker 1: Fasa dies for thirty minutes. Those terms even get us
Speaker 1: where the therapist will be like okay, now rewind now pause,
Speaker 1: like and I'm like, okay, get it, but no, you're
Speaker 1: it's exactly it. It's like take I'm like, why can't
Speaker 1: we do em? What's the opposite of indre? Can do? MR?
Speaker 1: Like the really great stuff like the time I went
Speaker 1: to talk about and they gave me like six free
Speaker 1: tacos like that. I think that they're I think that
Speaker 1: actually is. I think that's the other side of E
Speaker 1: M d R. I think once you process your traumatic stuff,
Speaker 1: it's allowing you, I don't know, talk to your therapist
Speaker 1: about it. But when I was researching for this episode, Um,
Speaker 1: when I was researching for this episode, I did see
Speaker 1: that they had eventually move over to the good You
Speaker 1: focus on the good memories and kind of like strengthen them. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Ours are just having us go through
Speaker 1: all the crap. We're gonna take another quick break, um
Speaker 1: that we're gonna hop back into E M d R
Speaker 1: and talk about brain spotting, which is the one that
Speaker 1: I'm doing right after this, and we're back, we're still
Speaker 1: talking about E M d R. Thank you again, Kevin
Speaker 1: for being so open about your process. Truly, you gave
Speaker 1: a lot of insight and we've got real personal with
Speaker 1: us and I truly appreciate that. We're going to talk
Speaker 1: about my subsective brain spot my subsective E M d R,
Speaker 1: which is brain spotting. If you do want to tell
Speaker 1: the people what brain spotting is, Yeah, brain spotting is
Speaker 1: a powerful, focused treatment method that works by identifying, processing
Speaker 1: and releasing core neurophysiological sources of emotional body pain, trauma, dissociation,
Speaker 1: and a variety of other challenging symptoms. Brain Spotting is
Speaker 1: a simultaneous form of diagnosis, of diagnosis and treatment enhanced
Speaker 1: with biolateral sound, which is deep, direct and powerful, yet
Speaker 1: focus and containing and Brain spotting was discovered in two
Speaker 1: thousand and three by David Grant, PhD, and over thousand
Speaker 1: therapists have been trained in BSP, which is brain spotting
Speaker 1: fifty two internationally in the United States, South America, Europe,
Speaker 1: the Middle East, Asia, Australia, and Africa. Yeah. So it
Speaker 1: actually access accesses unprocessed trauma in the sub cortical brain.
Speaker 1: The first time I did it, Okay, So my session
Speaker 1: was essentially UM, where I'm looking at. You know those
Speaker 1: pointers that professors have, not the not the light ones,
Speaker 1: like a physical, actual pointer that you pull out and
Speaker 1: you can point to, uh, you can point to something
Speaker 1: on the chalkboard. That is essentially what they have for me.
Speaker 1: They have this little pointer that they pull up UM
Speaker 1: and they can adjust the height and adjust it across
Speaker 1: horizontally and vertically. I'm staring at the top of the pointer,
Speaker 1: and she has me access like, what are what is
Speaker 1: angering you right now? Or what are the feelings that
Speaker 1: you're feeling, what is the memory that you're thinking of,
Speaker 1: And let's say mine's being cheated on, So she has
Speaker 1: me look at the top of the pointer and focus
Speaker 1: on the emotions and feeling even in my body. I
Speaker 1: feel it in my gut, I feel it behind my
Speaker 1: belly button of this feeling, this fear of being cheated
Speaker 1: on um. And then the anger starts to come up,
Speaker 1: which is why it was so funny Kevin that you
Speaker 1: said that I got progressively more angry. I actually think
Speaker 1: that I experienced all the stages of grief in that session,
Speaker 1: where you're angry and then I'm sad and I'm weeping. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: she's a dead silent, like they're silent most of the
Speaker 1: time while you're doing this. It's you processing for twenty minutes,
Speaker 1: and I'll occasionally check in. She'll be like, Okay, tell
Speaker 1: me what's going on, and I'm like, I just don't
Speaker 1: know why I'm so angry, and she's like, okay, just
Speaker 1: question that. And that's helped me a ton with my healing.
Speaker 1: Is not being judgmental, because I'd be judgmental, like why
Speaker 1: are you jealous of this woman? And you're so bitter
Speaker 1: and you're so bubble and you can't let it go
Speaker 1: and you'll never be this. And instead it's like I'm
Speaker 1: cures as to why Danny is, why she can't let
Speaker 1: this go, why she doesn't want to move on? Why
Speaker 1: is she holding onto this? You know? And for a
Speaker 1: lot of people it's like, well, it makes sense, that
Speaker 1: makes sense, you'd be upset about that. But what we're
Speaker 1: saying is okay, but we've now reached a level in
Speaker 1: our therapy where we want to let go. We're done
Speaker 1: hanging onto this. It's effect it's like the poison where
Speaker 1: what is that Hatred is like poison or jealousy is
Speaker 1: like poison um, but like if you drink it yourself
Speaker 1: and expect the other person to die. It's like it's
Speaker 1: just is this gripping, tense feeling that you don't want
Speaker 1: to have anymore about this person and so or this memory. However, afterwards,
Speaker 1: I was incredibly I was I felt very brave. I
Speaker 1: felt extremely brave for for bringing up these traumatic events.
Speaker 1: And of course it's not just one thing. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: my dad was a cheat or e cheat on my
Speaker 1: mom a ton. Okay, well he left our family. Okay,
Speaker 1: I've been left before. Like it's all of these things.
Speaker 1: It's not just like one instance, right, it's all these things.
Speaker 1: Like you were saying that it's a leaky compartment that
Speaker 1: dives into all these other things. Afterwards, I felt okay,
Speaker 1: Like I felt like, okay, I let that go. It
Speaker 1: was cathartic. I wept about it, and she told me,
Speaker 1: you're going to be processing this for the next forty
Speaker 1: eight hours, but like whatever comes up immediately after your
Speaker 1: session is in your inner core. And I had a breakthrough.
Speaker 1: Every time I do it, I have a breakthrough. But
Speaker 1: it's like, this is you've now focused on this for
Speaker 1: an hour, so you got past the surface of what
Speaker 1: you think. So now after this hour, every journal what
Speaker 1: is coming up, and it would be breakthroughs. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this isn't about them, this isn't about her, This is
Speaker 1: about this thing that happened to me a long time ago,
Speaker 1: and like this is why I can't let it go,
Speaker 1: And like that doesn't even have to do with me.
Speaker 1: That has to do with them and the way that
Speaker 1: they treat like it's all these all these things are
Speaker 1: coming up. So I felt good. Twenty four hours later,
Speaker 1: I completely spiraled, and I remember I messaged Kevin. I
Speaker 1: messaged you, and I was like, I have totally spiraled
Speaker 1: and I can't. I was just in a dark place.
Speaker 1: I was writing stuff that was like how why, Like
Speaker 1: what is the purpose of life? It's just going to
Speaker 1: be trauma all the time. It was just it was
Speaker 1: in a not great place and you were great. You
Speaker 1: were just like hanging there. It was great to talk
Speaker 1: to you and knowing that you had like also had.
Speaker 1: Essentially what you're doing, in my opinion, with with accessing
Speaker 1: this trauma is you're opening up a wound and making
Speaker 1: it now a raw nerve. Now you're desensitizing yourself. The
Speaker 1: more that you do it, like Kevin was saying, you
Speaker 1: do end up like it gets easier and now that
Speaker 1: I've done multiple sessions, it's much easier. But that's what
Speaker 1: you're doing, and that's why I think it takes a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of bravery to know that you're actively going
Speaker 1: into the dark side. It's like you're taking a flashlight
Speaker 1: and you're going into something that you can't even see,
Speaker 1: like just the darkest area, the scariest, creepiest area of
Speaker 1: your brain and knowing that you'll come out on the
Speaker 1: other end, but it's terrifying going in there. It's so
Speaker 1: scary and mean. It's the thing that was I was
Speaker 1: told me, told to me that I always come back
Speaker 1: to about this stuff, is you don't ever get over
Speaker 1: any of this stuff. You just learned to integrate it.
Speaker 1: And that's a huge there's a huge difference there, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think I think with a lot of therapy,
Speaker 1: whether it's MDR or the one I kind I do,
Speaker 1: or brain spotting like you do, or even just you know,
Speaker 1: laying on a couch therapy the misnomer for a lot
Speaker 1: of people. As I think, well, I'm gonna go in
Speaker 1: here and I'm gonna get over this and be fine,
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you don't get over anything. You just
Speaker 1: learn how to incorporate it into into your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was that I am that night. I remember
Speaker 1: I was like I was talking. My wife was next
Speaker 1: to me, and I was like, honey, um, we gotta
Speaker 1: pause for a second. I was like, I was gonna
Speaker 1: text you and ask your phone number, like I didn't
Speaker 1: think if you a call to make sure you're okay.
Speaker 1: But it's scary that that stuff pops up. It is.
Speaker 1: It's that it's one of the worst feelings when you
Speaker 1: put so much work into something and like you said,
Speaker 1: you do something so brave and then your body goes nope,
Speaker 1: We're still freaked out. I don't know if you do this.
Speaker 1: I do this all the time where I yell at
Speaker 1: my body body. We really doing this today, I'm likeself like, no,
Speaker 1: this is my brain and this is my belly, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna yell at my belly like I just I get.
Speaker 1: So it's like a stupid conversation. But what was wild
Speaker 1: for me is I'm literally paying someone to just hold
Speaker 1: up a pointer and and meanwhile I am listen. It's
Speaker 1: bilateral sounds. So she has a soundtrack that I'm listening to,
Speaker 1: which does um I can send it to you, but
Speaker 1: they have. It's so funny because I did ketemy. I
Speaker 1: did clinical kenemine at a doctor's office and I really listen.
Speaker 1: I got really low and wild. I called up my
Speaker 1: dealer time I did clitical ketamine and they also had
Speaker 1: a headphones on me where they played bilateral sound and
Speaker 1: it it gets into a I don't know, a part
Speaker 1: of your brain. It literally makes me cry every time
Speaker 1: I listen to it, but like it not in a
Speaker 1: bad way. But okay, I'm ready. I'm strapped in. I'm
Speaker 1: safe and I'm ready to You know, have you ever
Speaker 1: into music that makes you like you actively want to
Speaker 1: listen to something? Yeah, I mean like I have every
Speaker 1: I mean I can put on a soundtrack right now.
Speaker 1: I'll be crying in ten seconds. It's the Flying Circus
Speaker 1: cue from the Rockets. Here here we go. Wait, I'm saying,
Speaker 1: is the is the? Is the? Is it like a
Speaker 1: tonal thing? Or are you listening for? Like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, It's like, um, it's like meditation, like music
Speaker 1: is what I can but there's definitely a beat to it. Um,
Speaker 1: and uh, we'll put a link. I'll put a link.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm guessing people use it for different reasons.
Speaker 1: They use it for sleep hypnosis as well, which is
Speaker 1: a big thing that I'm into. Um. But what was
Speaker 1: fascinating is when I did the ketamine, they used the
Speaker 1: same soundtrack, so I recognized it and then that also
Speaker 1: made me cry. But um, we're doing your session. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm so curious when you were. So, when you do
Speaker 1: your sessions, does does the therapist guide you through them
Speaker 1: at all? Or does she basically say watch this in
Speaker 1: go and then does she ask you to replay this session?
Speaker 1: Or is it kind of you're you're the captain to
Speaker 1: your own ship. I'm the captain, I think. Also because
Speaker 1: I've just done so, she's like, I'm going to trust
Speaker 1: your brain. Let me know. Here's another thing. She tells
Speaker 1: me where to put the pointer and I'm telling y'all
Speaker 1: listening at home. It is the wildest thing because she'll
Speaker 1: move it to a certain location on the screen and
Speaker 1: it makes me uncomfortable, and I'll tell her can you
Speaker 1: lower it? And can you move it a little to
Speaker 1: the left. That's the thing that drove me that I
Speaker 1: thought was crazy because you would think, oh, it's just
Speaker 1: a dot, and it's like no, I actually, oh this
Speaker 1: feels so weird. Now can you an inch? Okay, that's
Speaker 1: too low? Can you move it up? It's the wildest thing.
Speaker 1: And I guess it's accessing that makes sense. Like I
Speaker 1: guess it's accessing something great. And I am a firm
Speaker 1: believer now that I've had these sessions with it. So
Speaker 1: she's playing the music, she does check in with me.
Speaker 1: She'll watch me get really emotional, and I'll see her
Speaker 1: just nodding her head like yep, you got it, like
Speaker 1: you got into the the thing and yes, because I'm
Speaker 1: staring at the point. Yeah, So I'm staring, so my
Speaker 1: eyes are open and it's the why. Okay. So for
Speaker 1: me this last session, I dealt with fear. It was
Speaker 1: like the fear of being abandoned, the fear being cheated on,
Speaker 1: the fear of being all of that, like just an
Speaker 1: overwhelming sense of fear that anytime I'm going into a
Speaker 1: new relationship, I'm like, this isn't gonna last. He's gonna
Speaker 1: cheat on me. He's gonna I don't care, like he's
Speaker 1: gonna cheat up. Like it's just it's it's so ingrained,
Speaker 1: you know. And so the little dot it was so
Speaker 1: crazy that I was staring at the whole time. It
Speaker 1: was just like, give me your fear, just give it
Speaker 1: to me, Just just hand it to me. It's fine,
Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll just take it from you. And
Speaker 1: it was just the wildest It was almost like I
Speaker 1: could just place all my fear on the top of
Speaker 1: that dot and then walk away. It was just crazy.
Speaker 1: So that was my that was my experience. Every time
Speaker 1: I do it, we're kind of focusing. It all has
Speaker 1: to do with validation and fear and like abandonment. But
Speaker 1: I would say it's different, it's different. It's different. Like
Speaker 1: she'll she'll check in with me and be like, what
Speaker 1: is a thing that's affecting you the most right now? Um?
Speaker 1: And so we'll and then she has me check in
Speaker 1: with my body. So it'll be like, where do you
Speaker 1: feel it? And yeah, get that too. Yeah, it'll be
Speaker 1: like my chest. I can just feel it heaving, like
Speaker 1: it's just like a not in my throat or something. Um,
Speaker 1: and it eases up. So there's different. Yeah. So so
Speaker 1: in other words, there's very different ways. Your E M
Speaker 1: d R that you're doing is very different than mine. Um,
Speaker 1: however both effective for us. Yeah, how long as we
Speaker 1: wrap up here, do you think it's something that you'll
Speaker 1: do maintenance on or do you think you could ever
Speaker 1: stop doing it? I there's there's one thing that wants
Speaker 1: to say that I can stop. But that's the part
Speaker 1: that that's the anxious part of me that goes that
Speaker 1: just gives me another hour to work every day, and
Speaker 1: that's not healthy. So I think it's good that I
Speaker 1: keep going and doing it and and keep discovering stuff.
Speaker 1: And I don't think I don't think it'll be e
Speaker 1: M D R sysians forever like we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1: I think they'll be fewer and farther between, because I'm
Speaker 1: not sure about yours, but mine have been very Mine
Speaker 1: are very pinpointed about specific memories UM and and and
Speaker 1: as we talk more like more of those things kind
Speaker 1: of pop, Like I never thought this was so important,
Speaker 1: like I was saying, but it is. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of the big ones I've actually kind of addressed,
Speaker 1: Like the hard stuff I'm way better with than I
Speaker 1: was before. Some the relationship stuff with UM, way better
Speaker 1: with than I was before. What it's actually and this
Speaker 1: is kind of a side note, but it's interesting. It
Speaker 1: has made me much more open to even other different
Speaker 1: types of therapies, Like uh, I went to did marriage
Speaker 1: therapy with my wife because I'm like, we've been married
Speaker 1: for ten years and at first I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do that. We're perfect, and she's like, no, stupid.
Speaker 1: It's like yourself check up on it. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. And part of that that we do
Speaker 1: is this. It's a very intense thing where that your
Speaker 1: faces are like twelve inches apart and you were looking
Speaker 1: directly into the other person's eyes. It's it sounds nuts
Speaker 1: and you can't look away really and you have to
Speaker 1: keep that contact as you talk to them, and it's
Speaker 1: really fair and I love. It's just made me more
Speaker 1: curious about therapy and also how that affects even mind,
Speaker 1: because it's just that's why not like this is up here.
Speaker 1: I want to learn as much as I can about it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to say, because you talked about some of
Speaker 1: your breakthrough so one of my breakthroughs was realizing it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, they did that because they're hurt like that,
Speaker 1: or because they're insecure. When I look at since we're
Speaker 1: being really open, my dad cheated on my mom a ton,
Speaker 1: even though she was gorgeous, she was a great mom
Speaker 1: to us, and it just didn't I think in her
Speaker 1: mind it was like, Oh, if I were just prettier,
Speaker 1: and I was just That's how I think often it's
Speaker 1: like if I was just more successful, if I was
Speaker 1: just prettier, and then you realize and it's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: they have a whole they have an insecurity in themselves
Speaker 1: that means they need outside validation from more than what
Speaker 1: like they need outside. My dad needed outside validation from
Speaker 1: so many women to cure how he felt about himself
Speaker 1: and it didn't cure. It was just like a hole
Speaker 1: that he could never fill, um that he should have
Speaker 1: been getting help on, right. But those are like breakthroughs
Speaker 1: that you have that's like, it literally wasn't me. There
Speaker 1: was literally nothing else I could have done. It was
Speaker 1: them and they're insecurity and their fear and their hurt
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like that hurt people, hurt people,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was such a great breakthrough for
Speaker 1: me to you know and take off a lot of
Speaker 1: fault and take off a lot of that heaviness is
Speaker 1: that I feel, um that like all of it is
Speaker 1: because of me. And it was just like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a that's an amazing shift to have. I've had that
Speaker 1: once a similar sort of thing with uh. It was
Speaker 1: it was via E. M. D R. And it was
Speaker 1: a relationship where I was basically looking at it going
Speaker 1: oh gosh, I was like like I hated how I
Speaker 1: felt I was treated and I just felt like I
Speaker 1: was just a nothing and it was just you know this,
Speaker 1: another person had all the power. And then via these sessions,
Speaker 1: something very similar happened where I was like I was
Speaker 1: just I was just a person who was in their
Speaker 1: eyeline and dealing with it like it ain't about me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've had so many times where I've been like, wait,
Speaker 1: he's miserable. I'm literally especially dating people this industry, I'm like, well, no,
Speaker 1: he got to walk away and he's successful, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: but he's miserable. Okay, I get it. I'm glad I was.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I had boundaries and walked away and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: one of powerful things you can realize. And it sounds
Speaker 1: horrible because it's like it's not wishing ill on somebody else.
Speaker 1: It's not because it's you got to take care of yourself.
Speaker 1: Is that exact thing you just said. It's going Oh wait, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a sad sack and you're miserable. Okay. I want
Speaker 1: to say, it's not just relationships, it's a it's colleagues
Speaker 1: and people you've had to work for, and you're like
Speaker 1: you take it as a writer or whatever. It's like,
Speaker 1: this person is treating me awful. I must be not
Speaker 1: great at my job. I'm not as talented as I thought,
Speaker 1: lah blah. And then you're like, oh crap, this person
Speaker 1: is just not And then and then you find out
Speaker 1: like everybody else has the same story with this person.
Speaker 1: So it's this is the best therapy issue advice I
Speaker 1: ever got. And I'm only gonna say it is because
Speaker 1: it's from the coolest person ever, from Keith David. Because
Speaker 1: Keith was on Enlisted and he was on the New
Speaker 1: Warrior Show and I'm friends with me. He's like a
Speaker 1: wonderful human being. And I was talking to him at
Speaker 1: one point about life and issues and stuff and somebody
Speaker 1: who was just kind of toxic. And he goes, Kevin,
Speaker 1: you know what I've learned? And I go, what what
Speaker 1: please tell me? And he goes, it's not your ship,
Speaker 1: Like what do you mean? He goes everything else, it's
Speaker 1: not you. That's the always remember that. But in my
Speaker 1: head I hear Keith David saying that it is like
Speaker 1: the garden King Gargoyle. I'm like, all right, yeah, time
Speaker 1: to take this then for landing, and it was thank
Speaker 1: you so much for talking with this, uh talking about
Speaker 1: us talking about this with us, Kevin, this is such
Speaker 1: a fun, illuminating discussion. Thank you, and I hope it
Speaker 1: helps someone because I think what's good about episodes like
Speaker 1: this one and the one we did last week is
Speaker 1: I know, like therapy itself is such a hard sell
Speaker 1: for some people, but then even going beyond that is
Speaker 1: another hard sell. Like so to hear other people talking
Speaker 1: about like we say, like, the more you talk about it,
Speaker 1: the more it reduces the stigma. I think one of
Speaker 1: the hardest things about therapy is for so long we've
Speaker 1: believed that therapy is for people who are who are
Speaker 1: quote unquote crazy and who who who who needs some
Speaker 1: type of help. So even going beyond talk therapy, people start,
Speaker 1: you know, getting self conscious about it people. So I
Speaker 1: think having people so openly talking about it that they
Speaker 1: can look at and be like, oh no, it's it's fine,
Speaker 1: it's nothing about me, it's just to help. And I
Speaker 1: think that you really hit something important about couples therapy too,
Speaker 1: because I think people, once again that's another thing. People
Speaker 1: assume it's for couples that are that are that are
Speaker 1: at the brink, and it's the last thing and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: don't wait till you're at that point for couples therapy.
Speaker 1: Trust me, if you do it early, you probably won't
Speaker 1: get to that point. It's to help you understand each other,
Speaker 1: you know, and also to make people feel value, because
Speaker 1: there's that tug of war in relationships that you know,
Speaker 1: people might feel undervalued or more value, or lack of
Speaker 1: understanding in the things that each other are doing or
Speaker 1: the headspace. You know, cut all the assuming out, go
Speaker 1: to a couple's therapy. Kevin, where can everyone find you? Uh,
Speaker 1: let's see lockdown at my house making barbecue random people. Um.
Speaker 1: And also I'm at k Beagle k B I E
Speaker 1: g L at Twitter and that Kevin Beagle on Instagram. Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't follow on Instagram. Follow you actually different content?
Speaker 1: Really that sounds spicy, I know it's not. But follow
Speaker 1: Kevin on his only fans Yeah, me and Henry Cavill. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now it'll be uh, it'll be Kevin's uh you know
Speaker 1: he's he's when he does all the poor barbecue. It'll
Speaker 1: be his only hands. Uh yeah yeah, the best friend. Um. Um,
Speaker 1: well you know me if you wait Twitter and Instagram,
Speaker 1: if d's on Twitch, super punch Mondays through Fridays. Now
Speaker 1: we're doing five days of the week with me host
Speaker 1: in the show and then outside of that doing uh
Speaker 1: if he's on Twitch streaming video games when I should
Speaker 1: be doing this pilot. Uh. But we got some fun stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, me and writer Buddy, we're gonna be doing
Speaker 1: like digital writer's workshops and all other types of BS
Speaker 1: two have that like outlet because and yeah, there's been
Speaker 1: a weird spurt of people who have come into my
Speaker 1: stream asking writers and writing advice. And I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to don't you see, I'm trying to kill these
Speaker 1: weird monsters when you stop reminding me of stuff I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing. Uh. But yeah, Danny, what about you?
Speaker 1: Where are you? Where? Where are people going to hear
Speaker 1: that voice at miss Danny Fernandez? As you know, it's
Speaker 1: M S D A and I F E R n
Speaker 1: A N d e zy if e you and I
Speaker 1: I know at least I have officially entered the TikTok world.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I just did it only because it
Speaker 1: was an idea I had, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is only a TikTok because it's using TikTok but you
Speaker 1: ran into the same problem I had. I laughed because
Speaker 1: that just happened to me too. I'm like, how does
Speaker 1: this work? I feel like a boomer? Um yeah, because
Speaker 1: my I made a Selena Michael Jordan's like meme and
Speaker 1: then it got flagged for did you add the music yourself?
Speaker 1: For us? What? They don't have Selena's music on the exactly,
Speaker 1: and they'll just choppy if you put in music because
Speaker 1: I used music from the site, but I don't know
Speaker 1: how to do you know how the kids switch songs
Speaker 1: in their TikTok's. I don't know how they're doing that,
Speaker 1: so I'm trying to so I thought, oh, maybe I'll
Speaker 1: make the TikTok. Then I save it and then I
Speaker 1: re uploaded, but then it doesn't recognize as me sourcing
Speaker 1: it from them, so then I got kicked. So I'm
Speaker 1: back to the rolling board. I don't know what's going on. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 1: Well I'm at I am Danny Fernandez, right, we've all
Speaker 1: had to break brand. People keep trying to take my
Speaker 1: names anyway, so he can follow me on there, and
Speaker 1: uh yeah, like we always say, stay nerdy and stay healthy.