1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Chuck's here, Jerry's here, I'm here, We're all here. Are 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: you here? Great? Well, then that makes this stuff show. 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: You know what else is here? What? Microplastics? 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? What else? Uh? 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: I don't know? All kinds of p fasts and xenobiotics. 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a little bit of bpds THCs. 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: You can only say that if you sing it, like 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: what's his face? 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: Cars one? 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: No, a little bit of. 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Lou Bega. 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy who faked listened to our show, the 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: fake lou Bega who listened to our show. 16 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 1: What does he have to do with? 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: Uh? Well, he said a little bit of And you 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: can't start any size like that without singing it. Lou 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: Vegas Doyle. 20 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: Well, I love that joke that I just smashed all 21 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: over the place. 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: A little bit of plastic in your gut? 23 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: That's about right, man. So you you mentioned what we're 24 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: talking about xenobiotics, and just that word is a little unnerving, 25 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: you know, So we're not talking about so zeno means foreign. 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: You're a xenophobe, You're afraid of immigrants. If you're a xenophile, 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: you really love immigrant immigrants. Yea. But zeno means foreign, 28 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: biotic means body or life or something like that, and 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: it's not to be confused. Ed helped us out with this, 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: and I think he made a good point, since to 31 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: be confused with xenobiology, that's the search for extraterrestrial life 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: of any kind, not that this is xenobiotics, meaning substances 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: that are foreign to life, foreign to the body, foreign 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: to biology. And there's just such a mind boggling array 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: of them, and they are so fully set into the 36 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: global environment that it's we're just now becoming aware of 37 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: how a wash we are in these things. And now 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: we're saying, okay, just exactly how are these things going 39 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: to kill all of us? 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: Should we read that textbook definition now or did you 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: want to hang on to that? 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: Oh? 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: Go ahead, all right. Xenobiotic is defined, oh here we go, 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: elementary school style as a chemical that is not used 45 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: And this is who's this from, By the way, do 46 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: we even know? 47 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: No, I don't know, all right. 48 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: A xenobiotic is defined as a chemical that is not 49 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: used by the reference organism. So in that case we're 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: talking about, like could be human, could be an animal, 51 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: could be a plant in a wetland. Not used as 52 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: a nutrient chemical is not essential for maintenance of normal 53 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: physiologic biochemical function, and homeostasis does not constitute a part 54 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: of the conventional array of chemicals synthesized from nutrient chemicals 55 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 2: normal intermediary metabolism. So, like you said, that's sort of 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: a baggy way of saying it's a foreign thing that 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: gets into our body or the body of an animal 58 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: or a plant, like the plant body, whether on purpose 59 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: or you know, like you drink booze. Technically that's a zenobiotic, Oh, yeah, 60 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: for sure, or unknowingly, which is like microbeads in your lipstick. 61 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there are things that we put into our 62 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: bodies that are technically foreign to our bodies, like essential 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: amino acids like trip to fan. We don't make enough 64 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: of that, so we can put that in our bodies 65 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: through way like eating turkey or whatever, and that is 66 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: used in the normal physiological processes of keeping you alive. 67 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: It would not qualify as xenobiotics. Zenobiotics do things in 68 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: your body that's beyond normal homeostatic physiological properties the normal 69 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: stuff your body would be doing if none of these 70 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: things were in your So that's another big key thing too. 71 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: They typically have some effect or another on our body, 72 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: and a lot of times it's because our bodies are 73 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: responding to them or doing things to them and can 74 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: actually make them worse in some cases. 75 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean you can purposely or accidentally ingest it, 76 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: like literally ingest it by eating it. You can inhale it, 77 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: like I mentioned the cosmetics and stuff. You can come 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: through your skin. There's all kinds of ways, and they're 79 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: and they all are quite proficient at seemingly getting into 80 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: the human body. 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll get in basically anyway they can. If you 82 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: stand there with your pants off, they're gonna find a 83 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: way in. 84 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. And we should also say upfront, like a lot 85 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: of this stuff is really kind of sad and scary. 86 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: We should say there are like tens of millions of 87 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: zenobiotics and they're not all dangerous necessarily. A lot of 88 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: this stuff is, and we'll talk about why it's all 89 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: you know, fairly new as far as really as far 90 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: as really editing it. Sometimes they can even be beneficial. 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: It seems like that's on the rare side than when 92 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: they're harmful. But one example in here was the stuff 93 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: in soy isoflavvones. They can help regulate the converted, of course, 94 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: and they can help regulate estrogen. 95 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: Yes, But there was a famous Renaissance Swiss physician named 96 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: Paracelsus who's known as the father of toxicology, and he 97 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: had a paraphrase quote that the dose makes the poison. 98 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: So like you could take too many iso flavones, eat 99 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: too much soy, and all of a sudden, your endocrine 100 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: processes are going to be disrupted. So things can have 101 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: beneficial effects for us at certain amounts, but beyond that 102 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: it can be you know, terrible for us, or something 103 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: can be terrible for us, but beneath a certain amount 104 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: it'll have no effect whatsoever. So that's a really important 105 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: thing to remember. They're not all necessarily dangerous, and they're 106 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: not all necessarily even though they're foreign, they're not necessarily 107 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: all synthetic. 108 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean people, and we've been guilty of throwing 109 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: the word chemical around. Sometimes there's chemicals in this, and 110 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: there's chemicals in that. I think using the word zenobiotics 111 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: drills down a little more. But even then they're not 112 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: all synthetic. 113 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: No, and that doesn't necessarily mean like, oh, not all 114 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: synthetics are harmful for you. We don't really know enough 115 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: about that, and a lot of them are. What it's 116 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: saying is just because something's natural and natural, naturally occurring 117 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: chemical doesn't mean that it's necessarily good for you or 118 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: isn't harmful. 119 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Throughout some numbers like tens of millions. According to 120 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: the Journal of Chemical Research in Toxicology, more than fifty 121 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: two million organic and inorganic substances have been synthesized, and 122 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: they're about thirty nine million that are commercially available and 123 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: in your life, like the average person walking around will 124 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 2: be exposed between one and three million different xenobiotic substances 125 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: in their life. Yeah, one to three million different ones. 126 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: Not one to three million times you're going to be 127 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: exposed to zenobioty, Yeah, different different ones. That's remarkable, it is, 128 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: and one of the other one of the big problems 129 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: about this. So that just goes to show you like 130 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: they're everywhere, and they get in our bodies really easily, 131 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: and they do weird stuff that we're just starting to 132 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: wrap our heads around. Frequently, very dangerous or harmful stuff 133 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: to us, and that there's an NGO called ChemSec that 134 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: pointed out that of the chemicals that are in use 135 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: in European Union countries, sixty five percent of them are 136 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: harmful to human health. Yeah, and I read a kind 137 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: of a critique of toxicology by a toxicologist who said 138 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: the field is basically obsessed with proving without a doubt 139 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: that something is harmful, and that that prevents them from 140 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,559 Speaker 1: branching out and looking at new stuff because they're busy 141 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: proving the original stuff is beyond doubt harmful for you 142 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: or the effects that it has, and that that's just 143 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: the ones that we know of that we've tested, sixty 144 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: five percent of those are harmful. There are so many 145 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: chemicals natural and synthetic in our world that we interact 146 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: with that we ingest, that make their way into our 147 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: body that we have no idea what they do right now. 148 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. As far as what we're going to be 149 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: talking about though, is xenobiotics, meaning the stuff that has 150 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: we've come into contact with, it's in our bodies, and 151 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: unusual things like happen after that. 152 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, beyond German. 153 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: We're not talking. Yeah, we're not talking about the three 154 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: million things. We can't. 155 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: No, we're not going to go over each one if 156 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: that's what you mean. 157 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way. We don't have time. This is 158 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: not a Xenobiotics lifetime show where we do this for 159 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: the next thirty years. They talking about three million zenobiotics. 160 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: It could be that'd be neat. So one other thing 161 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,359 Speaker 1: you mentioned when you came up with plant bodies, Yeah, 162 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: this can affect not just humans but other animals and 163 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: plants as well. And I mean, aside from concern for 164 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: polluting the environment and affecting animals who have nothing to 165 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: do with this, the moral quandary of that, we a lot, 166 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: very frequently eat those animals and those plants, and so 167 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: we ingest those things that get introduced to those environments 168 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: in those animals, and so the whole thing scales up. 169 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:33,479 Speaker 1: And there's some really interesting analogy between ecosystems and zenobiotics 170 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: entering ecosystems or becoming part of ecosystems, and how they 171 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: enter and impact the human body as well. So it 172 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: scales all the way up from the individual organism and 173 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: even as far as their cells, all the way up 174 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: to entire ecosystems, and now we're realizing the world, the 175 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: entire world. 176 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and in the water we drink and stuff 177 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: like that, the air we breathe. 178 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: When we're talking about like polluted anything, food, soil, whatever, 179 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: what we're saying is that those things have an excess 180 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: of zenobiotics. Like that's what's polluting them. And it can 181 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: come in all sorts of different forms of fashion and 182 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff can be polluted. But that's what 183 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: we mean. We're saying like polluted air or polluted water. 184 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's easier to say than xenobiotics over and 185 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: over and in fact this you know, we'll get to 186 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: microplastics and specifically microbeads. But Obama and it actually got 187 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: one hundred percent sentate support. 188 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: On rotten tomatoes, which is. 189 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: It broke the tomatometer when he signed the Microbead Free 190 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: Water Act for Free Waters Act in twenty fifteen. Oh okay, 191 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: so this is when they said, hey, no more microbeads, 192 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,119 Speaker 2: And I thought like, oh great, So there's not microbeads 193 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: in cosmetics anymore. Not necessarily, there's no microbeads. What the 194 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 2: act says is it can't be in a rinse off cosmetics. 195 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: So what that's saying is because we want to protect 196 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: the water. You know, like when you wash the exfoliant 197 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: off your face, Yeah, it goes down the drain and 198 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: into the water systems, but it can still be in 199 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: like lipstick and mascara and stuff. So again, you know, 200 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: it was a good thing, and it's and it's helped, 201 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: but there are still microbeads and cosmetics, just not in 202 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: stuff that goes down the sink. 203 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and my friend, that's just microbeads, just microbeads. So 204 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: one thing that I find just absolutely fascinating. I could 205 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: talk about it all day is the trouble that lies 206 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: in trying to categorize zenobiotics. Don't you find that fascinating? 207 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: I do. 208 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: So there's it's all over the place. And one of 209 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: the reasons it's important is because it shows just how 210 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: new this field of understanding xenobiotics is. We can't even 211 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: figure out how to classify them yet. 212 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 2: That's true because there's a lot of them. We talked 213 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: about the mini millions, and there's a lot of overlap. 214 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: So like it's it's kind of the case of where 215 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 2: like if you classify, you're saying it's it's just this. Uh, 216 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: but you know, if you want to say, well, it's 217 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: this chemical family and but this is how it's used, 218 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: and this is how the body responds to it, and 219 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: this is what effect it has on the body. Like 220 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: each of those could be its own classification. So it 221 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: gets very unwieldy very quickly. 222 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the EU has seventeen groups of classifications 223 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: for zenobiotics, and those are just the ones that they 224 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: have listed as the ones of most concern. But because 225 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: there's so many, there's so much overlap, there's so much 226 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: well yeah, overlap, that it almost renders classifying them either. 227 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: So you have to get so detailed that your your 228 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: book of classifications would be like the universe wide, or 229 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: it renders them basically useless because because some would just 230 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: show up in every classification you. 231 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: Have, right, and you might be thinking like big woop, 232 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: who cares if you can classify and they're still out there. 233 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: But classification is how you group things into, like getting 234 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: funding to study something like you can't just write a 235 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: very vague funding statement and say like we just want 236 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: to study you know, microbiotics and yeah, or like how 237 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: it's bad for you, Yeah, because I think there's like 238 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: more than eighteen kinds of microbead even or maybe more 239 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: than that. But you know, that's how you like get funding, 240 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: that's how you science classify things. It's how they talk 241 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: about things, and so it is an important deal. 242 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,599 Speaker 1: Yes, And so the other thing about the difficulty classifying 243 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: these things is that it also shows just how ubiquitous 244 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,599 Speaker 1: they are. Yeah, Like they're everywhere, Like they're in our cosmetics, 245 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: they're in our cooking pants, they're in our food packaging, 246 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: they're in our shampoos like you were saying, And they're 247 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: in the water we drink, the air we breathe. They're 248 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: passed on through the womb, through breast milk, through blood donations. 249 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: That it's in the Arctic, it's in the deep ocean. 250 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: Like xenobiotics, especially synthetic ones, have settled all over the 251 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: world in most human bodies. 252 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: Boy, I think that is a great unsettling intro. 253 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to just point out though, before 254 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: we go to break, we're not trying to be alarmist 255 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: or prompt any sort of hysteria or panic or anything 256 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: like that. Like breastmolk is a great example. Yes, zenobiotics 257 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: can be passed through breast milk, but if you read 258 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: about breast milk, health organizations still say it like the 259 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: benefits of breast milk so vastly outweigh the harm that 260 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: zenobiotics do, at least as far as we know now 261 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: that you definitely want to keep breastfeeding. So we're not 262 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: trying to like scare anybody or prompt a panic, but 263 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: this is the current state of the science right now. 264 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and go read in any cosmetic companies mission statement 265 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: on zenobiotics and microbeads, and they'll say it's really no 266 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: big deal, that's right. I did that today and I 267 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, and since twenty fifteen, we've been 268 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: doing this and this. It didn't say, well, because an 269 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: entire Republican and Democratic Senate agreed right to make that illegal. 270 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: It made it sound like it was some voluntary thing. 271 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: And all of those posts always end with now, let's 272 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: get back to being pretty right. 273 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: It's just click on the link to go back to shopping, 274 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: all right, So we'll take that break. Now, we'll come 275 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: back and we'll talk about what the body can do 276 00:15:38,280 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: with this stuff once it gets inside of us, all right, So, 277 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: as promised, we're going to talk about what can happen 278 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: once this goes in the body, and you shouldn't be 279 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: surprised to learn that the body tries to do with 280 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: it what it does with most things that it ingests. 281 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: There's only a handful of things that the body can do. 282 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: They can absorb it, which means it's going into your 283 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: tissue or in your blood, or back and forth between 284 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: the two. But basically it absorbs it and kind of 285 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: stays there. They can distribute it, and that's when it's 286 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: going back and forth between different parts of your body, like. 287 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: A shuttle cock and a badminton game. 288 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:38,239 Speaker 2: Exactly. 289 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: Sorry, you've got shuttle cocks on the brink because I 290 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: saw the Wham documentary last night. 291 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: Oh is it good? 292 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: It's great? 293 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: Were they into badminton? 294 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: There's one part with the shuttlecock and George Michael. 295 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: It's very tantal here it is. 296 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: It's as tantalizing as it sounds. 297 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: Believed me, I gotta watch that. What's that on? 298 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: I'd rather not say, I'm just kidding Netflix. 299 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm about to drop them, so maybe I'll watch 300 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: it and then drop them. 301 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worth watching before you drop them, for sure. 302 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 2: Okay. Biotransformation is when the body breaks it down into 303 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 2: its you know, it's different parts, and then from there 304 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: it can be metabolized, which of course means it's going 305 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: to be converted into some new kind of chemical. And 306 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: we'll talk more about metabolism in a minute, because it's 307 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 2: pretty important. Or the last thing it could do is 308 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: eliminate it. It could you know. The liver, of course, 309 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 2: is where it's usually gonna go, is the first stop 310 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: processing center of the body. And then it's gonna you're 311 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 2: gonna pee it out or poop it out or sweat 312 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 2: it out, or it'll be in your hair and it'll 313 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: grow out through your hair and then you'll cut that hair. 314 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 2: Like Britney Spears, Man, you're just dropping the funny rest today, 315 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 2: thanks Shuttle Cocks, Britney Spears what else? 316 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: Oh, just you wait, buddy, Okay. But sometimes that stuff's 317 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: eliminated intact, like it had no impact or effect on 318 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: the body. And one of the very famous examples of 319 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: that chuck is when your pea trans bright yellow after 320 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: taking a multi vitamin. Right, what you're seeing is the 321 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: excess B six or twelve that your body didn't absorb 322 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: that's being sent out intact vitamin B has a fluorescent 323 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: look to it, so it's taking your yellow P and 324 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: boosting it in a neon status. 325 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: Like wham style. 326 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, but technically you could drink your P with that 327 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: vitamin B and you would inguest some more. It's just 328 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: that there was more than your body needed at the 329 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: time in that vitamin. So it's just excreting it out 330 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: just the same way it came in. 331 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of the stuff, you know, I 332 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: mentioned those four ways, it's not just one or the other. 333 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 2: Like a lot of these overlap as well. So a 334 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: good example of that is you might ingest like, well THC. 335 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 2: Let's say you let's see a puffed on a doobie. Okay, 336 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 2: that THC is a xenobiotic, and THC is the most 337 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: people know who know anything about it is absorbed in 338 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: fat mainly. Yeah, it was called adipose. 339 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's your fatty tissue. 340 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, adipose fat. And that's where a lot of that 341 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: THHC goes, and it doesn't stay there forever anything, but 342 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 2: a lot of different kinds of xenobiotics may go into 343 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 2: that those fat deposits. Let's say, lose some weight, it's 344 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: gonna burn that fat off and then sometimes those xenobiotics 345 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 2: can be released back into the bloodstream and it may 346 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: be kind of the same or it may be changed, 347 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: but it's in your body again because you have burned 348 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: fat that was storing that stuff. 349 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and just from it being present when you burn 350 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: fat means that it could have been chemically changed into 351 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: some new chemical compound, which is a frequent happenstance with 352 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: zenobiotics in the human body, and that actually can be 353 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: the fate of a lot of different xenobiotics. Your body 354 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: takes them and turns them into entirely new things, so 355 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: that that can happen to say THC that's part of 356 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: a fat cell. Like it's burned for energy, it turns 357 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: into PCP. 358 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: It's amazing. By the way, the keen eared lister might 359 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 2: have heard a little momo. 360 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Cameo, oh yeah, could you hear mo? 361 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: I heard a little bit before you. You got up 362 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 2: and said, mo, come on, you know in the red 363 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: light's on? What that means? 364 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: She's like, sorry, I know, but I just can't stand landscapers. 365 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 2: There may have been a couple of barks in there, though, 366 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 2: but I like that. I like a mumo cameoles leave. 367 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: All right, cool, we will, She'll love it. 368 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so uh we're pcp oh he is what 369 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: you're talking about. 370 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: Pcp Oh. There was one other thing that happens too, Right. 371 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: So when this, say, the THD gets released back into 372 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: your system, chuck one of the things. As it enters 373 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: the bloodstream, you're it might get taken finally to the liver. 374 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: And this is where the fate of most xenobiotics. The 375 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: vast majority of xenobiotics end up in the liver or liver, 376 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: and the liver actually produces enzymes that seem to be 377 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: dedicated to but babolizing xenobiotics. We have a whole class 378 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: of genes called cytochrome four fifty genes. They express enzymes 379 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: that convert zenobiotics into less harmful stuff in the body. 380 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: Pretty cool, right, And it also shows that like, zenobiotics 381 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: are nothing new as far as our bodies are concerned. 382 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 2: I know, it's kind of awesome and sad all the 383 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 2: same time. 384 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: Right, So the liver's going to process what it can. 385 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: When it renders it harmless enough, it will send it 386 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: to the kidneys or to the intestine, where it's either 387 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: pooped out or peed out or the intestines will reabsorb 388 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: it and send it back to the liver, and it'll 389 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: be processed further and broken down further, and eventually, over 390 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: enough time they call them half lives. Just like with radioactivity, 391 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: the thing has been basically rinsed and repeated so many 392 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: times that enough it's just so little of it in 393 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: your system that it's essentially gone, even if there might 394 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: be little trace amounts left. 395 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I know we talked about this in 396 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 2: our maybe an alcoholism or did you just do on 397 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: on hangovers? Maybe sometimes it gets broken down into something 398 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 2: that's worse for you, that's actually really bad. And alcohol 399 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: is a great example. When it hits the liver, those 400 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: enzymes go to work like they're trained to do, and 401 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 2: it turns it into acetold hyde, and that's a metabolite 402 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: of alcohol, and that is the carcinogen. That's the thing 403 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: that is you know, if you're a severe alcoholic and 404 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 2: you're dying from it, it's from that acetaldehyde which comes 405 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: about because your liver is trying to break down that 406 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: alcohol that you're just dumping on it. 407 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a metabolite of alcohol. So it's a product 408 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: of metabolism. But it's an intermediary one. It gets transformed 409 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: into acetate, which is far less toxic as far as 410 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: your body's concerned. But for that brief time where the 411 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: alcohol is in acetyl aldehyde form before it becomes acetate, 412 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: it can do a lot of damage genetic damage to 413 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: your cells that can get passed on and turn into tumors, 414 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: or it can just damage the cells and the liver 415 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: grows back kind of hardened or scarred, and that's where 416 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: you get things like cirrhosis. 417 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And that half life you were talking about, 418 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: you can't. It's not you know when you talk about 419 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: the half life of like nuclear waste or something. Nuclear waste, 420 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: is that a good example, Yeah, definitely, Like plutonium, Yeah, 421 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: you can. You can be a little more specific. The 422 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 2: conditions of the of the human that ingests something makes 423 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: it really hard to get like a really precise half 424 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 2: life on zenobiotics because of how old you are, how 425 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: heavy you are, what kind of health you're in, all 426 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: kinds of stuff like that. So you're going to always 427 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: see a range as far as a half life goes. 428 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: In the case of xenobiotsey, yes, like a big range. 429 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, like Alprazi lamb I think is an antidepressant or 430 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: an anti anxiety drug has a half life of six to 431 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: twelve hours. 432 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so either one thing or double it. 433 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: Right. So yeah, But the point of this and the 434 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: point of knowing half lives and all that is if 435 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: you know you know what route a zenobiotic takes and 436 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: what it does in your body and how long it's 437 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: around for, you can treat those things better. You can 438 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: also design drugs better that can treat zenobiotics or do 439 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: other things. You can make them much more targeted and personalized. 440 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 441 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: That's one of the reason I am understanding all this, 442 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: aside from having your mind blown. 443 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: Right, we talked about ecosystems. You know, it's not just 444 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 2: humans and animals that are affected by this stuff. The 445 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: good news about ecosystems is that, and we've talked about 446 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: this in different you know, Earth Science podcast over the years, 447 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: they resemble the human body in a lot of ways, 448 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: and one way is how they process things. There are 449 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: things in ecosystems that help move along these zenobiotics, sometimes 450 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: unchanged just because it goes in like let's say a 451 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: river and then doesn't really change much before it's washed 452 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 2: down and evaporates into the air. Let's say. 453 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's kind of like our process of elimination. Yeah, 454 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: there are other analogies too, and they're really found in wetlands. 455 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: They call wetlands, as we've said many times before, Earth's 456 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: kidneys because they're they're so good at filtering toxins out 457 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: of water, and they do them a few different ways. 458 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: One of the main ways is that they just trap 459 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: them in the sediment. They lay on top of them, 460 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: like a murderer in a hospital room with a pillow 461 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: over the victim's face. Yeah, for river hook exactly. And 462 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: that's very similar to our method of absorption, where it 463 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: just gets locked into our tissues. 464 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 2: Right. 465 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: They can also break them down chemically or biologically, like 466 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: just exposure to the sun can break the chemical bonds 467 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: of some things gasoline. There, there's algae and other kinds 468 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: of microorganisms that are actually capable of eating gasoline, breaking 469 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: it down into less harmful constituent parts. And that's basically 470 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: the same thing is what our the enzymes in our 471 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: bodies are doing with what's it called biotransformation. Yeah, pretty 472 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: neat stuff. I love that when there's just like really 473 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: obvious analogies between us and other parts of Earth, because 474 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: it's just such a reminder that like we're a part 475 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: of this larger hole and it's a part of us too. 476 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know there's a half life in 477 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 2: the environment as well. It's going to be different than 478 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 2: it is in us, of course, but you know, sometimes 479 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 2: it's like, you know, rain can wash stuff away. Of course, 480 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: it might end up in the groundwater and it might 481 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: react with something else along the way. So it's you know, 482 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: the journey of the zenobiotic in the environment is is 483 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: kind of like in humans, but kind of different and 484 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: fraught with you know, meeting up with other things. 485 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if you said it or not, 486 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: but the half life in our bodies has a lot 487 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: to do with the state of our health, our diet, 488 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: our weight, our age, our sex, all that stuff contributes 489 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: to it. And then like a zenobiotic in the in 490 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: the environment interacting with other zenobiotics, same thing in our bodies. 491 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: We're finding that zenobiotics interact with other zenobiotics, or say, 492 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: and then they interact in different ways with the metabolites 493 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: of a zenobiotic, and there's a bunch of different metabolites 494 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: so as you start to kind of connect them, the 495 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: whole web grows exponentially and you realize just how ridiculously 496 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: complex this entire thing that we're starting to understand is, 497 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: and just how daunting the idea of coming to fully 498 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: understand it is. The break I think anytime you say 499 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: I would be a fool to say. 500 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 2: No, that means I need to collect myself here. All right, 501 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 2: I'm going to collect myself and we'll be right back 502 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: to talk about how screwed we may or may not 503 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 2: be right after this. 504 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Chuck, you used them, maybe the more genteel term screwed. 505 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: But again, we're not here to cause alarm or panic 506 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: or anything like that. But there is a lot of 507 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: cause for concern the more we realize what chemicals we're 508 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: interacting with, and the more we realize how ubiquitous they. 509 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: Are, yeah, and very key in some cases, how long 510 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: they last. Ye, Because we've been talking a lot about 511 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 2: how these things break down. Some of them are very 512 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: good at not breaking down, and some of them are 513 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: so good at that that they're called forever cancles. The 514 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: one example that was used in here was this woman 515 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: that was found to have something called oxy chlordine in 516 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: her body, which is a metabolite of a pesticide called chlordane, 517 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: and they used that pesticide for many decades treating termites. 518 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: But it was a really bad thing that the world 519 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 2: eventually said, oh, you know what, we shouldn't use this 520 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: stuff anymore. So it was covered under the Stockholm Convention 521 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: and hasn't been around since eighty eight in the State 522 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 2: SIN since eighty one in the UK when this person, 523 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 2: this woman was on a one year old baby, but 524 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: that stuff was still in her body, you know, thirty 525 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: plus years later. 526 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that woman was an environmental journalist named Anna Turns 527 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: and she was writing on BBC and in this article 528 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: she says like, I probably got this from my mom. 529 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: It was probably passed through the womb ow And because 530 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: the half life of chlordine is thirty years, that means 531 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: there's still in me right that I probably passed it 532 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: along to my kids as well. And that's a I mean, 533 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: that's a thing like there. If the half life of 534 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: a chemical is longer than a human life, then for 535 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, once it enters your body, it's 536 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: it's never going to go away as far as you're 537 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: concerned it will always be there. Yeah, although there are 538 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: ways to get them out. We're starting to learn and 539 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: that will be a huge field of inquiry in the coming. 540 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: Years of ridding your body of these. So another term 541 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: for a zenobiotic that stays around for a long long 542 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: time and that is pretty harmful, and we should mention that. Well, 543 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about them persistent organic pollutants or pops. 544 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 2: These have been around since the nineteen forties. These aren't 545 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: brand new either, and specifically one type of those p 546 00:30:53,120 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: FASS p fas polyfloroalkal substances. You got it, and they are, 547 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 2: thank you. They were great as far as being resistant 548 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: to like oil and heat and water. So you're going 549 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 2: to find them in things like Scotch guard and gortex 550 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: and teflon and flame retardants that firefighters use. These, Like 551 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: I said, these have been around for a long time. 552 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 2: They exist, and I think more than these pos pifass. 553 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,239 Speaker 2: Is that what you would say? 554 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: That's what I've been wanting to say, but I haven't 555 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: seen it anywhere. There's no little Yeah. I think they 556 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: just say p fast pfas. Okay, well it should be plural. 557 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: I think so. But there are more than I think 558 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: twelve thousand forms and thousands of products. Yeah, and it's 559 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: it's a big deal. This is the stuff that should 560 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: cause some alarm. 561 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: So one of the things about those products that that 562 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: pfoss are used in is that it can wash away. 563 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: Right like if you if you have a fairly new 564 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: washing machine and you look closely, you'll see that probably 565 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: there's a weather proof or waterproof setting for your north 566 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: face rain coat or something like that, and it's meant 567 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: to very delicately wash it because you can very easily 568 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: wash that coating. And when that coating washes off, no 569 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: matter how delicate your washing machine is, some of it's 570 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: going to wash off. It drains out of your washing 571 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: machine and it drains right into municipal wastewater system. And 572 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: we have no idea how to get pifos says out 573 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: of our water. So it's just introduced into water and 574 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: it can go anywhere from that point. 575 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it, like we said, it's the stuff stays 576 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 2: around for a long long time, largely because one of 577 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: the strongest chemical bonds there is the carbon fluorine bond, 578 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: and there was a CDC report that said they could 579 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: be found in the blood of ninety seven percent of Americans. 580 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the National Institutes of Health here in the 581 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: United States says, we don't one hundred percent know exactly 582 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: what kind of harm this causes. So the NIH is 583 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: being very courteous to big chemical and saying, like, you know, 584 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: we don't know for sure that it does, but if 585 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: you listen to the EPA or the CDC, they're willing 586 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: to say p fosses have been linked to a whole 587 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: suite of health problems from endocrine disruption, low birth weight, 588 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: lowered effectiveness of the immune system, tons of cancers. And yes, 589 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: we haven't fully demonstrated that this does exactly this, but 590 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: there's enough evidence, and most importantly, we're exposed to these 591 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: things and enough people have it in their blood that 592 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: it's really worth not waiting around to see exactly what 593 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: mechanism gives you cancer from p foss before we start 594 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: regular p fossis And this I think the EPA just 595 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: issued its first guideline as recently as twenty sixteen. And 596 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: these things have been around since the forties, and there's 597 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: a bunch of lawsuits that show that dupot in three 598 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: am I known they were harmful since at least nineteen 599 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: sixty one. 600 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're gonna they may end up paying out 601 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 2: more than the tobacco companies did. 602 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I saw. 603 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: In the end. And this stuff, you know, it's bad 604 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 2: enough for adults, but this stuff, like the CDC also 605 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 2: talked about babies and like learning and behavior and the 606 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 2: growth of your baby can is you know, they have 607 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 2: to be So it's a little frustrating because they have 608 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: to say, you know, like could cause problems in infants 609 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,959 Speaker 2: and older children and stuff like that, because like you said, 610 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: they haven't certifiably like proven the stuff. But it's just 611 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: such an obvious thing. I hop when people read warnings 612 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 2: like that, they don't say, oh, well, they haven't absolutely 613 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: prove so it's just fine. 614 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing is that science doesn't need to start 615 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: adopting that. It's like total we totally know that this 616 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: is it, because science never does. It's just the point 617 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: of science. I think what the goal here is is 618 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: to get the public aware that, like you said, when 619 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: they see a warning like that, they know what that means, essentially, 620 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: like steer clear of this. Not oh, I'm going to 621 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: wait around twenty years for the field of toxicology to 622 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: prove me to me conclusively that this gives me cancer. 623 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, I'm going to keep licking my 624 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: teflon coated frying pan all day long. Right. 625 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: And another thing is like, you can't get two populations 626 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 2: and say, all right, this population, we're going to feed 627 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 2: you and make you inhale microplastics, and this population we're not, 628 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 2: so we can get a one to one comparison. Here 629 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: they test the stuff on animals, but they can't literally 630 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 2: do that to a human being. They can test it 631 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 2: on seals and they have and it showed cell damage 632 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: and cell death. But you know, you can't design a 633 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 2: study where you just feed people microplastics and micropas. 634 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: Know, what you would have to do is take a 635 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: part of the study population and sequester them away in 636 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: a glass box for the length of the study and 637 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: just let the rest of the study population go about 638 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: their daily lives and just compare the two like that. 639 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 2: We did mention microplastics earlier, and a microplastic is defined 640 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 2: technically is a plastic less than five millimeters. There are 641 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 2: a couple of kinds. It can be the primary or 642 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 2: secondary secondary means is broken down from a larger plastic, 643 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 2: and this is like might be microplastics you find in 644 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 2: the ocean from larger plastic that's just been out there forever, 645 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: or the primary kind is the stuff that is manufactured 646 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 2: and put purposely packaged and put into products. 647 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, like the stuff that keeps like a cellophane wrapper 648 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: or like a burger wrapper from sticking to the bun. 649 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: That's teflon. There's teflon coding on there. Like that's what 650 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: they use. It's used all around us and chuck. One 651 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: of the things about microplastics that really kind of ties 652 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: into pfas's is that when you wash that same gortex coat, 653 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: that coat's made of microplastics, and some of those are 654 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: going to come out, and just like the pfas's, they're 655 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: going to enter the water supply. And these little tiny 656 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: plastic fibers are capable of actually evaporating from water into 657 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: the air, which means they can be carried through the 658 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: atmosphere and dumped down as snow. In the Arctic and 659 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: with very little surprise, they've actually found microplastics and what 660 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: is essentially pristine Arctic areas. 661 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, if you've ever have you ever 662 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 2: wondered like, oh, Why is it that when I shred 663 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 2: cheese with a cheese shredder, it's all stuck together like 664 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 2: cheese does, And when I buy the stuff in the package, 665 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 2: none of that stuff's ever sticking together. It's just all 666 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: like little individual strands of cheese. Well, it's because they 667 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 2: coat this little shreds of cheese with stuff to keep 668 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: them from clumb together. I'm not sure what is in 669 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 2: cheese if it's a zenobiotic, so I probably should have 670 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 2: checked that, but it just came to me at the 671 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 2: top of my head. 672 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: They if you know that they spray something onto the 673 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: cheese to keep it from sticking. There's one hundred percent 674 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: chances of zenobiotic. 675 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: Actually, here it is. It's cellulose. 676 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so that would technically count because we don't like 677 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: we eat cellulose, but it doesn't necessarily contribute to our 678 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: normal physiological processes, so in that circumstance, it would be 679 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 1: a zenobiotic. 680 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's an article that I'm seeing now cellulose colon 681 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 2: the woodpulp in your shreded cheese. So yeah, we don't 682 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 2: get that stuff anymore. I mean, like you said, it's 683 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 2: hard to avoid. I mean, it's impossible to one hundred 684 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 2: percent avoid this stuff if you're just walking around the planet, 685 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: But you can do a good job at weeding out 686 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: as much as you can, as far as like cosmetics 687 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: and like this shred of cheese and just things that 688 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 2: you know for sure that they're adding this stuff to 689 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 2: to make your product a little whatever prettier or less 690 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 2: clumpy or you know, less sticky. 691 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think the one takeaway from this episode 692 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: is steer clear of shredded cheese. 693 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: Right. Oh no, I like it when it clumps together. Man. 694 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 2: This is the great thing about shredding your own. 695 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: It keeps you busy breaking it up. 696 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 697 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of ways that microplastics PFASs zenobiotics 698 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,919 Speaker 1: in general can mess with our bodies as they're metabolized 699 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: or as they just enter our bodies. But ultimately one 700 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: of the one of the big problems that they cause 701 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: is cancer. Yeah, And if you have like an acute 702 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: poisoning of a zenobiotic, you can be treated. Typically there's 703 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: an antidote out there maybe that can help you metabolize 704 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: it faster, that can block the same receptors that that 705 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: zenobiotic would attached to and keep it from harming you. 706 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: But with cancer, it's typically the result of a build 707 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: up from repeated exposure of a zenobiotic that does not 708 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: is not easily cleared from the body, and that the 709 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: more time it spends in your body, the more chance 710 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: it has to do some genetic damage. And as again 711 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: as we've seen, the basis of a tumor is a 712 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 1: cell that has damaged replicating genes in your DNA strand 713 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,839 Speaker 1: and as those get back together, there's nothing stopping them 714 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: from continuing to replicate and replicate and grow and grow 715 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: and grow. And that's the basis of a tumor. So 716 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what all zenobiotics can do that. 717 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: We just know that some can and we're starting to 718 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,879 Speaker 1: realize like that it's a frequent occurrence from exposure to zenobiotics, 719 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: especially built up ones. 720 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, studying that stuff is problematic. It's 721 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 2: tough because there's so many of them, which is what 722 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 2: we've been trying to hammer home. So I hope it's 723 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 2: coming through. It's you know, they are studying that stuff, 724 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 2: but if you're talking about long term exposure, you're talking 725 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 2: about you know, multi year studies, and they're doing it 726 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 2: but it's all that stuff is expensive, it takes a 727 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 2: lot of time, and there are you know, tens of 728 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 2: millions of these chemicals. So a that's why classification helps, 729 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 2: because you can group them into a class and study 730 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 2: a class. But it's just, you know, it's a very 731 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 2: daunting thing where they're doing great work in cancer research, 732 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 2: but there's just so much out there. 733 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, tough for sure. So a lot of people are saying, well, 734 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: let's turn to AI. AI can figure this out. AI 735 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: can grasp all this like galaxy of interactions between different 736 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 1: zenobiotics and their metabolites, and that's probably a really great 737 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: path to be pursuing right now. One other thing that 738 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: would be probably have AI applied to it is something 739 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: called metabolomics, which the goal of metabolomics is measuring and 740 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:58,240 Speaker 1: quantifying every single metabolic process that happens in the body 741 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: and then assigning like a sick nature to it, so 742 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,439 Speaker 1: that you can very quickly detect what your body's doing 743 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: at any given point in time and you can say 744 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: treated accordingly or adjusted accordingly, depending on what's going on. 745 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a huge deal considering for you know, 746 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: one hundred years or so, they were like pee in 747 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 2: this thing and we'll test your pee. Yeah, and that 748 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,439 Speaker 2: was kind of from where the research ended. 749 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, that was. I mean that's kind 750 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: of still where it's at. Like metabolomics is so new 751 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: that it's almost hypothetical right now. There's people working on it, 752 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 1: for sure, but I think they still will generally have 753 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: you pee and test you afterward or after your debt. 754 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: They'll go dig into your bone or your fatty tissue 755 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: and start testing and see what's there. 756 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 757 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: Wow, So that's zenobiotics for now. Do you think this 758 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: is one that we would probably like visit maybe later on? 759 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,399 Speaker 2: Oh maybe, Okay, we'll see kind of like birth order. 760 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, but on purpose, I guess, is what I'm trying 761 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:03,919 Speaker 1: to say. 762 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. By the way, people pointed out we did customs twice. 763 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 2: I don't remember that, but I guess we did either. Man. 764 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's see. Since Chuck said that he doesn't 765 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: remember it, and I said I don't remember either doing 766 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 1: customs twice, that means it's time for listener meal. 767 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to call this it has been spanked on 768 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 2: the bottle. Aloha, guys, and Jerry, I just wanted to 769 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 2: share a bit of Sara and Dip. I like this 770 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 2: already after having listened to the Magic Eye Illusions episode. 771 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,439 Speaker 2: My family and I just stayed in the cabin Mount 772 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 2: Saint Helen's and I had an old school handheld stereo scop. 773 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,399 Speaker 2: Oh that is awesome, so cool. My kids really loved it. 774 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 2: Included some pics and there some picks of these kids 775 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 2: popping and they're little jammies. No, they're they're using this 776 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 2: thing and it's adorable. Look at those cute kids in 777 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 2: it a little bit time jammies or as my daughter 778 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 2: calls him, jommies. 779 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: Oh really, how British. 780 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 2: I don't know why my mom did it? 781 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: Well, you said our language learning episode that your mom, 782 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: all right, kind of apes British people that is around them, 783 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: so that's probably where that's what it was. 784 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 2: Put on your job it was. I've included some picks. 785 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 2: Both kids are huge fans. My son loves all of 786 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,320 Speaker 2: the Animal and Earth Science episodes, and my daughter especially 787 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 2: loves the episode on Pooh Aloha once again because as 788 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 2: we know, that could mean hello and goodbye. That is 789 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 2: from Baird and also any names of kids. So I'm 790 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 2: going to also Mia and Luke. And this email has 791 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 2: been spanked on the bottom, wrapped up and spanked on 792 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 2: the bottom with consent. 793 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: Well Mahallow, Baird, Miya and Luke, we appreciate that big time. 794 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,479 Speaker 1: It was a great email. I agree, yeah, and thanks 795 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: for the cute picks. If you want to be like 796 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,280 Speaker 1: Baird and Mia and Luke and say heloha or anything else, 797 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: you can email it to us. Send it off to 798 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 799 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,920 Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 800 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 801 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.