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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: If you don't know Maria Ressa, you should and you

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Speaker 1: will once you watch A Thousand Cuts, a film that

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Speaker 1: will open in theaters and virtual theaters early next month.

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Speaker 1: Maria Ressa is a journalist based in the Philippines. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, she was an honoree when Time Magazines

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Speaker 1: Person of the Year issue focused on quote, the Guardians

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Speaker 1: and the War on truth unquote. A Thousand Cuts follows

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Speaker 1: Ressa and tells a shocking story about the struggle for

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Speaker 1: a free press and the crackdown on news media in

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Speaker 1: the Philippines under President du Terte. It's a chilling movie

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Speaker 1: and a cautionary tale. A Thousand Cuts comes from My

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Speaker 1: Guest Today director Ramona Diaz. Born in the Philippines, Diaz

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Speaker 1: lives in the United States now. She came to the

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Speaker 1: US for film school at Emerson and Austin. Through her documentaries,

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Speaker 1: Diaz draws deep portraits, and her subjects vary from well

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Speaker 1: known figures like Amelda Marcos to women who have just

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Speaker 1: given birth at Fabella Hospital in Manila, the busiest maternity

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Speaker 1: ward in the world. I first encountered Diaz's work through

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Speaker 1: one of her earlier films, Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey.

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Speaker 1: Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey tells the story of

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Speaker 1: how Journey, Yes, Journey, the band that's created some of

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Speaker 1: the most beloved songs and rock music, needed a new

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Speaker 1: lead singer and ended up finding their singer, Arnell Pinta

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Speaker 1: in the Philippines over YouTube. And this was long before

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. Here's director Ramona Diaz. I got this email,

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Speaker 1: this crazy email from actually the console who was working

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Speaker 1: at the American Embassy in the Philippines, and it was

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Speaker 1: this crazy email about how are Nell had to sing

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Speaker 1: for his visa. It's a funny an email and I

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Speaker 1: never read these emails, but for some reason, I clicked

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Speaker 1: on that email. I found myself. You know, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: someone has to make this film. So I called my

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Speaker 1: manager in Los Angeles. I said, Peter, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: you have to read this email. Someone has to make

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Speaker 1: this film. And he gets back to he goes, you

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Speaker 1: gotta do it. I said, no, no, I'm finishing this

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Speaker 1: other film. I don't want to do it, and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to deal with favs speaking fall because I

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Speaker 1: just dealt with Emailda Marcos, who sued me. Actually that's

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Speaker 1: another story. I said, I I don't have the stomach

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Speaker 1: for it. Um and the music rides and stuff. Well,

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Speaker 1: one thing led to the other, and then pretty soon

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Speaker 1: they I was talking to their manager, John Barrett, and

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Speaker 1: he goes, see, I'll take it to the guys. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have a great story, but you know, we have

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Speaker 1: to follow him this year. And then maybe, like twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours later, John Barrett calls back and said, you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't think they have a story. Maybe next year.

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Speaker 1: I said, you don't have a story next year, you

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Speaker 1: have a story. This year. I'll make a deal with you.

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Speaker 1: I said, give me forty eight hours with the band

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Speaker 1: wherever they are, will come fly in, will for forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours, will cut a like s yeah, and proved

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Speaker 1: to them they have a story. So that's what we did.

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Speaker 1: We filmed them, I did an interview with our now

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Speaker 1: and the band together, um and some of that ends

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Speaker 1: up in the film submitted and then Irving as Off

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Speaker 1: saw it, the big manager and his wife, and the

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Speaker 1: wife cried and the wife said, you gotta do this.

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Speaker 1: So that's how it was done. And of course you know,

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Speaker 1: access is a um, it's a process. And they weren't

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Speaker 1: used to us being backstage or in their private spaces. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it was explained to me that they came of

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Speaker 1: age pre MTV when those spaces were very sacred, and

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Speaker 1: then MTV sort of broke that open wide open. So

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Speaker 1: now like, of course all the newer bands were so

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Speaker 1: used to people being around and filming, but they weren't,

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Speaker 1: so they were very private. So it took a while.

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Speaker 1: Don't stop believing. Is of course much of it is

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Speaker 1: said in the Philippines and that you're from the Philippines

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Speaker 1: and you grow up there your entire life. I was

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Speaker 1: one and raised there and came here for college. Now

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Speaker 1: is it fair to say for people who don't know

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Speaker 1: the Philippines, which I don't, that is the Philippines like Canada.

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Speaker 1: And when I say that, I mean the whole country

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Speaker 1: lives in Toronto. The only place with is Manila. Does

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Speaker 1: everybody live in Manila? Is the only place with the

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Speaker 1: economy never in the rest of the country's terms. Maybe

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Speaker 1: there's another main city down south, simple, but Vanilla eclipses everything. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Like it's like I guess New York, right, or I

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Speaker 1: said Toronto, because every everybody that wants a career and

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Speaker 1: something important, they all go to that's business. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you leave there. How did you explain to your parents

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Speaker 1: that you were going to Boston to go to Emerson

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Speaker 1: to learn to make movies? What? What was the goal

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Speaker 1: back then? Meaning? Were you burning to make films where

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Speaker 1: you just wanted to put your toe in there and

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Speaker 1: take a look and see what that world was long.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to make films, yeah, because I grew up

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Speaker 1: on a diet of local films, local movies, you know,

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Speaker 1: the tours of the eighties and the Philippines Lena Broca

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Speaker 1: and we now Yeah. And also there was an Alliance

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Speaker 1: Frances and a Goody Institute that had German films and

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Speaker 1: French films. So I saw a lot of traffax and

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Speaker 1: I remember watching Um Day for Night. I was talked like,

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Speaker 1: I want to do that, and then I saw Worth

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Speaker 1: Mueller and um yes all that. It just I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make films. I wanted to make fiction films, and

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Speaker 1: so I left her Emerson. Had you lived in the

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Speaker 1: US before I had visited, you know, the West coast

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, that's where all the Filipinos visit, right, because

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Speaker 1: it's close community, big Filippino community, also Hawaii, but never

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Speaker 1: really the East Coast and never lived in winter, you know.

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Speaker 1: But that is of course very romantic again for me,

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Speaker 1: because it's something so exotic. My first time, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't know what I was thinking

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Speaker 1: from the Philippines. I couldn't get up. I couldn't, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I scheduled all my classes after lunch because for

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Speaker 1: the life of me, I couldn't get up. To get

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Speaker 1: your blood flowing. Yeah, it was crazy, but I still

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Speaker 1: loved it, you know. I mean it's different, and Boston

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Speaker 1: was really I think good for me. Then. It's a

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Speaker 1: small enough but also close to New York and had

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends friends in New York, so I would,

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Speaker 1: you know, drive to New York or takes a train. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and um, and I was exposed to a lot of

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Speaker 1: theater and films and so it was. It was amazing.

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Speaker 1: You started making films there when you were at Emerson. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so we started making small like, you know, three minute

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Speaker 1: films on sixteen so on film, real real film, yeah,

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Speaker 1: pre digital. I'm agent, you know, I'm myself yeah, pre digital,

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Speaker 1: it was all like hands on on the steam back,

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Speaker 1: cutting film by hand. You think different, right, you really

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Speaker 1: it's very intentional because when I think you're using video,

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Speaker 1: it's more this water holes approach. You know, you film everything,

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Speaker 1: but with film because it's expensive. You really are like

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Speaker 1: with cameras exactly, it's a different discipline. Now when you're there,

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Speaker 1: what was your thinking or feelings about making films when

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Speaker 1: you entered the program and how did it change by

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Speaker 1: the time you left. When you leave Emerson, what becomes

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Speaker 1: the plan. The plan was to go to l A.

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Speaker 1: I actually got an internship with MPTM Productions, Mary Tyler

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Speaker 1: More Productions. So it was saying elsewhere Hill Street Blues,

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Speaker 1: Remington's Steel. Now I was gonna ask you you and

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Speaker 1: what says here? You did Remington Steel for five years?

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Speaker 1: What did you do on Remington's Steels? The writer's assistant?

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Speaker 1: So you were the writer's room of the show. Yes,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. It was like the best job after college.

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Speaker 1: I thought all jobs were like that. Like you went

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Speaker 1: in you could go to the trailers still for breakfast,

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Speaker 1: they serve you lunch, and if you stay after six,

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Speaker 1: they serve your dinner. Right, my mother visited me in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles and she opened my refrigerator and all there

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Speaker 1: was was water, bottled water and cigarettes because I used

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Speaker 1: to smoke. Then I don't want anymore. But that is

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Speaker 1: all because I didn't have to buy any groceries. I'm empty.

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Speaker 1: M fed me, and I thought, I love working. This

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Speaker 1: is the best job. For five years. You did the

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Speaker 1: one show, Yes, And then this is what's interesting to

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Speaker 1: me about your timeline. You go back to the Philippines. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. I think, um, you know, because the revolution happened.

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Speaker 1: Um not, they're gone. They're gone. The dictator was gone.

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Speaker 1: The dictator was all I knew right growing up in

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Speaker 1: the Philippines. And I actually found out more about what

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Speaker 1: they did when I left the Philippines because there was

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Speaker 1: no freedom of the press, and I felt like, wow,

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Speaker 1: things are opening up, their building institutions out there. I

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Speaker 1: want to be part of that. So I did rather

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Speaker 1: be a filmmaker there. Yes, I thought I did, And

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Speaker 1: I got there and realize that infrastructure wasn't there. I

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Speaker 1: mean the dreams were there, but there was no intentions

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Speaker 1: were there. Yes, But then that's also when I got

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Speaker 1: interested in documentaries because all the stories were happening on

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Speaker 1: the streets, but there was no I didn't have the

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Speaker 1: wearithal I. I don't know how to do it, you know.

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Speaker 1: That's why I left to go back to grad school.

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Speaker 1: I went back to Stanford just to find out. You know, hey,

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Speaker 1: can I do this now? The first film you make

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Speaker 1: feature length doc is yes? No? No. When you decide

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Speaker 1: to make a film about you know, this legendary figure,

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Speaker 1: do you sit down? Is your process one that involves

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Speaker 1: some writing and some you putting down on paper your

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Speaker 1: thoughts about how am I going to portray email DeMarcus

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Speaker 1: in a way that she hasn't already been portrayed five

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Speaker 1: times before. Yes, she's a very famous figure. It's reading

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Speaker 1: everything everything about her, about what she's written about herself,

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Speaker 1: writing my own thoughts, because I think my films are

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Speaker 1: always to me, their explorations, and I want people to

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Speaker 1: change my mind, like I wanted her to change my

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Speaker 1: mind about her, right, That's why not so much? Well,

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Speaker 1: in a way that I didn't think she was silly.

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Speaker 1: I think she's very smart. So people dismissed her as

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Speaker 1: being still in naive. Yah, yeah, but she's not. She's

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Speaker 1: smart with a lot of money and shopping. She's very strategic,

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Speaker 1: she's she's got a good political mind. So I went

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Speaker 1: back and forth for two years. I also had to

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Speaker 1: raise the money. It was my first film. How do

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Speaker 1: you how do you uh, you know, just walk up

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Speaker 1: to the royal palace or her private home and ring

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Speaker 1: the doorbell. How does that connection? My thesis film was

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Speaker 1: about the revolution. It was called Spirits Rising. And I

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Speaker 1: have this crazy notion of also interviewing Mrs Marcus for

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Speaker 1: that film. And I was there with a student crew

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Speaker 1: and someone suggested, you know, if you want Mrs Marcus,

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Speaker 1: you have to figure out where one of her son

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Speaker 1: is and then corner him and ask him to ask her.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, I can do that. So I

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Speaker 1: crashed a cocktail party actually, and I asked him. I said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm a Stanford student. I'm here for like two weeks.

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Speaker 1: We're filming this thing about the revolution. I really want

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Speaker 1: your mother's voice in it. And I handed him the

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Speaker 1: letter and he was he a fan of documentary film.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think he did it? I have no

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Speaker 1: idea why he did it. I have no and I

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Speaker 1: lost hope. I'm like, okay, he's never going to get

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Speaker 1: back to me, because he said, oh, that's interesting. Do

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Speaker 1: you think even he had his doubts about his parents legacy? Maybe,

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Speaker 1: but they are there there. They are Marcus children. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're loyal, very loyal. But at the same time, they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't mind having, you know, another generation. They want more truth. Yes,

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Speaker 1: especially I said, I wanted to hear from her because

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Speaker 1: I had all these other women in the film who

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Speaker 1: were talking from the opposition, and I wanted to hear

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Speaker 1: from inside the palace what was happening. They were about

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Speaker 1: to leave, and the first time you meet her described

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Speaker 1: that where are you? We were invited. So this was

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Speaker 1: a very very last day ever shoot. I had given up,

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Speaker 1: and then her assistant calls me and says, well, Mrs

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Speaker 1: Marcus can see you for fifteen minutes, but you're not

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Speaker 1: allowed to talk about the revolution. I'm like, that's okay.

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Speaker 1: My films about the revolution, but that's okay fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: with I'll take it. So she invitses us to her

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Speaker 1: condo in Makati, which is a business capital in the Philippines,

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Speaker 1: very luxurious, you know, penthouse condo. Um. She invites us in,

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Speaker 1: surrounded by help, yes, her security guards were there, um

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Speaker 1: and I expected to spend fifteen minutes with her, and

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Speaker 1: we spent five hours with her. She was ready to talk,

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Speaker 1: could not stop talking, and then she brought up the revolution,

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Speaker 1: so I felt like, okay, then it's fair game, right,

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Speaker 1: I didn't bring it up. She did five hours, five hours,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the five hours, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were filming a movie. Yeah, And I asked, I said,

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Speaker 1: Mrs Marcus, I want to make a film just about

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Speaker 1: you through your point of view. So it was very

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Speaker 1: clear to me that I wanted it from her point

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Speaker 1: of view, her telling her story before you know, whatever

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Speaker 1: she goes. That's a great idea me, you want to

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Speaker 1: and she you know. Then my my idea of her

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Speaker 1: was very much Sunset Boulevard, you know, Norma Desmond and

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Speaker 1: her really wonderful you know, condor in the sky, but

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Speaker 1: really lonely and wanted to tell her story. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I think she said, yes. She winds up spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with her, Yes, a lot, and

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Speaker 1: she was so she had more energy than we did,

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Speaker 1: and we were, of course much younger than her passing

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Speaker 1: out and she's mid story. She would not sleep, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and every morning, bright and early. She was still she

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Speaker 1: was like quafft and put together, Well, we're like that, yes,

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Speaker 1: and she ever were there any moments where that cracked

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Speaker 1: some moments she was very very controlled, very controlled. She

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Speaker 1: was very aware. She was very good at being a

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Speaker 1: mal DeMarco. Yes, because for twenty years of their life,

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Speaker 1: you know, there when they were in power, camera crew

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Speaker 1: followed her, so she was very used to that. There

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Speaker 1: was one time we were entering a restaurant. She and

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Speaker 1: that she was entering with her, and she pulled me back.

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Speaker 1: She goes, you watch when I enter. There's going to

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Speaker 1: be a lull in the conversation, just a lull, and

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Speaker 1: then it will go because I entered. I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: miss Marcus, let's observe that. And we entered, and there

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Speaker 1: is there was a law. People sort of acknowledged her

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Speaker 1: and then went on with the life. She goes, it's

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Speaker 1: always been that way. So you, I mean, obviously she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have any rights or approvals or authorities over the film.

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Speaker 1: She relinquished all of that to you. She did. Um

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Speaker 1: and so uh we premiere at Sundance as well in

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Speaker 1: A four and you have a Filipino premiere yes, we

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Speaker 1: Actually it was a very email. There was the very

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Speaker 1: first documentary that was really theatrically in the Philippines. But um,

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Speaker 1: right before I release in the Philippines, she sued us.

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Speaker 1: She sued my distributors. There was a temporary restraining order

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Speaker 1: and why because she felt like I sullied her good name,

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Speaker 1: an invasion of privacy. But she's a public figure, so

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Speaker 1: the invasion of privacy was thrown out. And selling her

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Speaker 1: good name, well, she said, meld Marca. So that was

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Speaker 1: really tough. So the movie, I mean, I'm being glid here,

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Speaker 1: but so the movie didn't kiss her ass enough as

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Speaker 1: far as she was concerned. As far as no see,

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Speaker 1: when she first saw it, she was okay with it.

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Speaker 1: She was like, she had some problems. The harshest thing

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Speaker 1: that you say in the film, well she talks. It's

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Speaker 1: all her words. So she talks about the assassination of

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Speaker 1: Theia Kuino and that they had nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: it because if they would have done it, they would

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Speaker 1: have done it in the dark of night, not in

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Speaker 1: broad daylight. It's like, who does that? So she does?

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Speaker 1: I mean she really she hangs herself basically because she

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Speaker 1: that's Mrs Marcos. So when she first saw the film

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Speaker 1: right before the premier at Sundance, UM had a courtesy

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Speaker 1: screening for her. She had a few problems with it,

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Speaker 1: but she knew she didn't have final cut. Fast forward

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Speaker 1: six months later, we had a theatrical release here in

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Speaker 1: in the US. So she all the reviewers, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know Times, La Times, Washington Post reviewed the film,

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Speaker 1: and they all called it like a pariah, delusional all that.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly she saw herself through the eyes of the reviewers

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Speaker 1: and did not like it, so she sued us. In

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Speaker 1: the Philippines, that was the only time where it was

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Speaker 1: thrown out, and we opened so big in the Philippiness

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Speaker 1: half that because what she did was she had like

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Speaker 1: a news conference every day of the trial, and so

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Speaker 1: we so much so that people were saying that we

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Speaker 1: colluded with her to make this like a big, big hit,

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Speaker 1: but we did not. But no, it was thrown out.

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Speaker 1: So when you you get sued, the case is dismissed

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Speaker 1: and when you what's your next film? My next film

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Speaker 1: is about teachers being recruited in the Philippines to teach

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Speaker 1: an inner city Baltimore. Because I traveled so much with

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Speaker 1: the Maldown, my daughter was growing up. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: stay home, so I really literally a film in my backyard.

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Speaker 1: And Um, I read the story in the Baltimore Sun

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Speaker 1: that they were recruiting teachers from the Philippines, which was

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Speaker 1: so odd to me. There was a shortage of science

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Speaker 1: teachers because of course all the science teachers were going

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Speaker 1: to the suburbs, you know, where they're more well resource schools.

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Speaker 1: So they were recruiting from overseas, and the Philippines was

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Speaker 1: a hub because we speak English right, and our educational

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Speaker 1: system is set up like the American educational system because

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Speaker 1: of the forty years of um Commonwealth room and and

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Speaker 1: so I said, wow, and inner city in Baltimore, something

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Speaker 1: will happen in that classroom. And one thing that to another. Again,

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Speaker 1: I was given access. I asked the public school officials

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Speaker 1: and they said sure. And I was given like carte

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Speaker 1: blanche access to the schools. I'm not sure they do

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Speaker 1: that now, but that was my No one's giving carte

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Speaker 1: blanche to access to journalists and cameras to anybody anymore,

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Speaker 1: no more terrified. Um. Yes, So I followed like four

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Speaker 1: teachers during the freshman year teaching in Baltimore City. It

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Speaker 1: turned out to be a very hopeful film because it's

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Speaker 1: two marginalized groups of people found community in the classroom.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was it was quite something. Where's the

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Speaker 1: money coming from to make both the Marcos film in

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Speaker 1: this film public television? Is it you tax dollars? As

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Speaker 1: well as with with Emelda Yes. So after the school

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Speaker 1: a story and you're in Baltimore, what comes next? Journey?

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Speaker 1: I was finishing the learning and so Journey Um Journey.

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Speaker 1: In oh seven, they were looking for a new lead

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Speaker 1: singer because so Jerry got cancer. Yeah, uh, he could

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Speaker 1: no longer do it. And Neil Sean, who is one

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Speaker 1: of the co founders of the band, wanted you know,

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Speaker 1: had heard all the cover bands in the US, but

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Speaker 1: wanted something different. So he trolled YouTube, right, he went,

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Speaker 1: of course, where do you go? YouTube? And he just

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Speaker 1: kept looking and looking looking YouTube, and then he found

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Speaker 1: this guy Arnel Pinetta who was in the Philippines singing

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Speaker 1: in some at the hard Rock Cafe in Manila, and

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Speaker 1: he was like just enamored of him and called all

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Speaker 1: his band members. The next day, called Jonathan Kane and

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Speaker 1: said I found the guy. And Jonathan was like he's

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Speaker 1: in Manila. I don't think so. I mean, how can

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Speaker 1: we even bring him exactly? And he was not known.

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Speaker 1: Arnell was not unknown singer. He was not famous at all.

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Speaker 1: But one thing that to another. They got his visa,

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Speaker 1: he flew out to San Francisco, he auditioned, and he

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Speaker 1: got the gig, and um so the lead singer for

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Speaker 1: the biggest crowd he had ever performed for pre was

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Speaker 1: the journey was like two people. Suddenly was in Vina

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Speaker 1: del Mar singing to like millions of people. And so

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Speaker 1: that part, that part is in the film, the first

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Speaker 1: time he sings to like a really large journey crowd.

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Speaker 1: More from director Ramona Diaz coming up. If you like

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Speaker 1: documentary films as much as I do, I hope you

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Speaker 1: will listen to my conversation with filmmaker Joe Burlinger. I

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Speaker 1: believe the audience should be treated like a jury. You

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Speaker 1: give them the information and your way both sides, and

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Speaker 1: you let them come to their own conclusion. You can

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Speaker 1: hear more from Burlinger in our archives. And here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: Dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to

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Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. Ramona diaz is most recent film a

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Speaker 1: Thousand cuts tells the story of Filipino American journalist Maria Ressa.

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Speaker 1: It's really a window into the country and the government

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Speaker 1: led by President du Terte. Ramona Diaz has lived in

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Speaker 1: the United States for most of her adult life, but

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Speaker 1: the Philippines remains a central to her work. I think

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Speaker 1: I make films because it's a yearning for the motherland.

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Speaker 1: Every film is a yearning. What do you love about

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Speaker 1: the Philippines. I go back there because I find it

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Speaker 1: somehow hopeful that something will change, and then it gets

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Speaker 1: very frustrating. So it's both a love hate relationship and

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Speaker 1: it's everything I know, right, it's everything deeply I know.

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Speaker 1: I know that country deeply, um, and I was still

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends and I always have hope for it.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think I keep going back, and

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Speaker 1: that's why I keep making those stories. And it's also

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Speaker 1: to decode I think what's happening in the Philippines to

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Speaker 1: the Western world. I think I'm in a space where

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Speaker 1: I can do that. I've lived enough in this country

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Speaker 1: to be able to do that, so I'm both inside outside.

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Speaker 1: That's why I love going back. Um Trump is someone

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Speaker 1: who you know both Snaro is someone who he considers

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Speaker 1: himself like minded with Terte, he considered himself is a

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Speaker 1: hero to him. Do you realize now, in the time

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Speaker 1: of Trump, what's happened in your country can happen here

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Speaker 1: as well. Yes, so quickly too, because if you're not vigilant,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you don't get fraid of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it goes away so quickly. It's so amazing how fragile

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Speaker 1: it is. But the thing about the US is your

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Speaker 1: institutions are much stronger. The reason in the Philippines thinks

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Speaker 1: changed so quickly in six months because the institutions are

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Speaker 1: not that strong. Well the interview, You're very right. The

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Speaker 1: institutions are stronger in spite of Trump, but they're significantly

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Speaker 1: weaker than since he took over. He tried to destroy

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Speaker 1: those institutions. Yes, But but for people who don't understand,

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Speaker 1: I want them to see the movie. The movie is

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Speaker 1: called A Thousand Cuts, and it's just depressing as hell.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really depressing. You don't find a hopeful um,

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Speaker 1: I mean I I find it a little bit hopeful.

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Speaker 1: I find Duterte I find art because he's unbridled by

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Speaker 1: many of the stop gaps we have in this country.

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Speaker 1: When Trump says I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue

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Speaker 1: and and I could get away with it, Tete is

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Speaker 1: literally shooting people on Fifth Avenue and getting away. He's

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Speaker 1: literally doing that, bragging about it, and then very I mean,

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Speaker 1: he is a monster. He's a very, very very unique

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Speaker 1: individual in terms of his uh, in terms of the

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Speaker 1: depths of his hatred. He seems to be soaked and

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Speaker 1: he really traffics and fear. He really thinks fear. What

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Speaker 1: do you think he became that way? Did you talk

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Speaker 1: to anybody who had insights to him earlier in his career?

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Speaker 1: Has he always been this way? I think it's always,

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Speaker 1: you know, he used to He's the son of a governor,

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Speaker 1: so although he's an outsider politician, he still comes from

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Speaker 1: a very political family. So he was surrounded always by

425
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: cops and security guards, and he's I think that's what

426
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: he grew up with, you know, just a culture of

427
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: killing or people killing or stories of killing. So to him,

428
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: I think it just comes naturally to talk about killing.

429
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: Everything is killing. It's really quite incredible, But no one

430
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: has ever outraged. I think that's my That's what I'm

431
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: surprised at because people just laugh and they're not outraged.

432
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: I mean, as he saw in the film, he talks

433
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: about like female parts in this really crude way, and

434
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: people are laughing. The outrage isn't there? Do people mark

435
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: in his career? Do you see in a timeline of

436
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: his career, uh, when he turned became more plane speaking

437
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: in terms of violence and killing people. What was before

438
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: he was president? What was he? He was the mayor

439
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: of dobo Uh town in the south and crime ridden

440
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: that he cleaned up. And that's why he won because

441
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, there was a myth that he cleaned up

442
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: he delivered and cleaned up Da Vow. How did he

443
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: clean up Da Vow? Well, the same way he's cleaning

444
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: up Manila basically death spots. Yeah, the same thing. He did,

445
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: the same thing. And and because of that, he was

446
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: mythical when he said when he when he ran um,

447
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: he was mythic and and everyone thought, okay, he can

448
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: do that here Manilla to clean up Manila. But the

449
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 1: thing is, Manilla's not Da Vow. And he's still I

450
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: think he's still in his mindset is still a mayor,

451
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: small town mayor. But now he's president, right, and so

452
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: he hasn't made that shift. Even after three years. He's

453
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: still micromanaging everything. And the most powerful courts, uh that

454
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: could stop him. The most powerful courts in your country

455
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: that could have some influence over him, are they elective

456
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: or they appointed? We have an appointed Supreme Court, but

457
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: they are all disappointed. His appointees. Now, the one was

458
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: the loudest voice against him, he he got rid of.

459
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean you know, he fired, right, and then the

460
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: loudest voice in the Senate, Senator Delima, he imprisoned. Right,

461
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: So all branches of government still in prison after three

462
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: years now, So all branches of government are really under

463
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: his control. And that's why they say he no longer.

464
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: He doesn't even have to proclaim martial law, right, there's

465
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: no need because they're all under his control. They've given

466
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: him all the the tools of martial law without asking

467
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: for exactly. You went back there to shoot the film

468
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: and you interviewed him. No, but we were given access

469
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: to be so we were like closest to him, like

470
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: in the pit, which was very rare because he doesn't

471
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: like anyone the press near him. But for some reason

472
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: he allowed us in the pit, and so we were

473
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: really close to when he gave all those speeches you

474
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: were afraid about what would happen to you from the

475
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: outcome of this film. Marcos gave you all that access

476
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: and you made this film, and she was disappointed. I

477
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: can't imagine what the possibilities are disappointed. You know what,

478
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: Maria was not afraid. Maria Russell was a protagonist. So

479
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I felt like, Wow, then I can't be afraid, right,

480
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: I mean, of course fear was there, right, But I'm

481
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: a documentary filmmaker. I think I'll regret it forever if

482
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: I didn't do it, So sort of the fear outweighed

483
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: and kind of you don't imagine um regret. But is

484
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 1: there a resistance there that has expressed any hope of

485
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: killing him? Oh, that's a whole other conversation. Assuming political

486
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: assassination has happened in this country. I mean, we've had

487
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: a political I'm assuming. I wonder if people who really

488
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: want to save the Philippines. But they say, he's always

489
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: imagining coups and and you know, cop attempts and cool theories. Yeah,

490
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: he's always poised for a curl always. That's right. Um,

491
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: let's talk about Maria Arressa in the film one thousand cuts.

492
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: Who is Maria Arressa. Maria Arressa in the film is

493
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: the loudest voice, I guess speaking up against She is

494
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: a woman who is fighting for press freedom in the country.

495
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: She's been a journalist for thirty years. She was a

496
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: face of CNN Asia for a long time. She was

497
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: the head of Beurey, chief of CNN Indonesia and then

498
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: CNN Philippines, and then went on her own and founded Rappler,

499
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: which is a completely like digital news site in the Philippines.

500
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: And when Arta became president, they were the first ones

501
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: to really question the drug war and the numbers and

502
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: they're like the intercept yeah, exactly, very very muscular truth seekers. Yes,

503
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: and the data was not happy. And in turn Is

504
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: threatens her with eleven cases just to shut her up,

505
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: and yet she does not stop. She just speaks up.

506
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: So they he went after them and started tried to

507
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: shut them down and has filed eleven cases against Maria,

508
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: all stemming from tax evasion and anti dummy messing with her. Yes. Basically,

509
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: so because they questioned, I mean, they're the loudest voice

510
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: against the terriative, because the opposition is really fragmented and

511
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: not not very you know, not very effective these days.

512
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: And did you get an impression. I'm sure you did,

513
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: but I want to ask, did you get an impression

514
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: when you were interviewing Maria? Why does she do what

515
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: she does? What's her? She always says, She always says

516
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: that she has no choice, like the baton was passed

517
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: to her and she has to do a chess to

518
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: stand up to duty. Yes, right, she can't not do it,

519
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: just like I can't not make the film right because

520
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: I think the regret. You have to do it. You

521
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,959
Speaker 1: have to speak up because as a journalist, then what

522
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: do you stand for if you don't speak up during

523
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: these times right when you really have to fight. So

524
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: she feels like she has no choice, but we all

525
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: know we all have choices. We just make the choice

526
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: that we feel we can um uh not regrets. What's

527
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: interesting to me? What's unusual about Maria Ressa? I never

528
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: met Gandhi. I don't think I've ever actually watched actual

529
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: footage of the real Gandhi. I might have. I only

530
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: know Gandhi as he was portrayed in films and stuff

531
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: with Ben Kingsley. Maria Ressa has what I imagine is

532
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: a Gandhi esque level of patience and tolerance. You never

533
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: see them get to her. She never lets it get

534
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: to her. She has the most unimaginable level of self

535
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: control I've seen in a human being in my lifetime.

536
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: And it's genuine, right because we spent so many hours

537
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: where there we saw that you're not some it's genuine

538
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: because she feels like it's counterproductive to go down that road.

539
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: She has a job to do. She's going to do it.

540
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: She's so self actualized in that way. It's it's mesmerizing,

541
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: it is. And yeah, they messed with her so much,

542
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: and she's like, hey, what do you want me to do?

543
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: You want to see these papers? Sure, okay, you could

544
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: arrest me. Okay. You never see her act out or

545
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: or or, which is a problem sometimes because she I'm like,

546
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: oh my god, people, will people really get that she's

547
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: in trouble because she's smiling too much? But then I

548
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: guess people do. That's her, that's what she is, And

549
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the charm and part of

550
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: sort of this irony and the tension between what she

551
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: is and what's happening to her. Really works. When you

552
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: showed Maria the film. What did she think? She's been

553
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: on camera a lot of her life, so wasn't overwhelmed.

554
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: She you know, people are I think are always surprised

555
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: when they when they see themselves in that situation because

556
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: they never they always forget what you capture, right, Because

557
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: we were her for months and months and months, she

558
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: had no idea how we were going to put it together,

559
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: and as a journalist, she tried helping us. You know,

560
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: it's like do you want to do this? Do you want?

561
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: And we're like no, no, no, no, you do what

562
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: you want and then we'll just follow you. This is

563
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: what we do. We're not journalists. You do something different,

564
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: We do something different. So when she saw it as

565
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: a whole, she was like, oh my god, you captured everything.

566
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, because we were with you, And I

567
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: think seeing it as a whole just brought her back

568
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: to those moments that she hasn't really had time to

569
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: reflect on, and so I think it was really powerful,

570
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: especially when she saw the Sundance with like the whole

571
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: round No no for you describe if you will, what's

572
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: it been like for you as a woman making films.

573
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: What's been the unique challenge for about that um, people

574
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: trusting that I can do it, you know, but the

575
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: convincing them, right, I mean that's changed in your lifetime. Atana, Yes, well,

576
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: especially with a thousand cuts I got. I raised that

577
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: my very quickly because it was imperative that I'd be

578
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: shooting quickly, and they just said sure here, well no,

579
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: I make it. Sounds so easy. But it was like

580
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: a whole here, just go and do it, and here's

581
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: the whole entire budget whatever we asked for. Which is

582
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: the first for me? Yes, it was the first. And

583
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to make movies with you. I

584
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: want to work for you. I'm not sure if that's

585
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: going to ever happen again, but I was like, wow,

586
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: maybe not because it's just content. Right. People were looking

587
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: for a film about tear. They couldn't quite figure out what.

588
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite figure out what I thought. I wanted

589
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: to do it on the drug war exclusively until I

590
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: met Maria. Then I thought, oh my god, she is

591
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: a protagonist. And yeah, I mean sometimes they just fall

592
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: on you that, sometimes they enter the room. So as

593
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: a woman filmmaker, things have gotten a bit easier if

594
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: you're over these just a little bit easier because I

595
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: think I've also like staked my claim. There's I haven't

596
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: niche right and I'm good films under your belt? What

597
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: are you working on now? Can you say? Uh say,

598
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: I can't say. It's like a docuseries. But I also

599
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: want to do fiction, so I've been trying to make

600
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: a fiction. I just have to stop doing documentaries. In

601
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: order to write, as you know, you need space and

602
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: time and quiet and stillness. So I'm actually trying to

603
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: make a feature of Imaalda. I'm making it into liked piece.

604
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: There's a lot there, Yeah, and I would be able

605
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: to get that job done in two hours. Seriously, I

606
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: mean that could be maybe a right, a streaming series,

607
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: but don't stop. Is being um made into a fiction narrative? Yeah,

608
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: at Universal somewhere. Now we're going to have to have

609
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: I should say now, they're going to have to have

610
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: a talent search to find exactly the kid that was

611
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: the subject of the talent search. Meta casting is ongoing,

612
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm told, in case anyone out there thinks this might

613
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: be their calling. Ramona Diaz's latest film, A Thousand Cuts,

614
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: will be out in theaters and virtual theaters on August seven.

615
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: I hope you'll make a point to see it. This

616
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing