Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? Hello, everybody, welcome, Welcome back to Are
Speaker 1: You a Charlotte Today when we are.
Speaker 2: Going to recap episode of one oh five. It is called.
Speaker 1: Oh my Gosh, The Power of Female Sex. Don Don
Speaker 1: Don do, and it is just me. I'm recapping just
Speaker 1: me and myself today. So for the fan who wrote
Speaker 1: in on the Instagram page saying, you know, can you
Speaker 1: explain the guests at the top of the show, the
Speaker 1: guest is.
Speaker 2: Myself, So I hope that's okay with you guys.
Speaker 1: All Right, this episode is so fascinating and when I
Speaker 1: rewatched it, I was wow shocked. Didn't remember lots and
Speaker 1: lots of it. Did remember some of it. But also,
Speaker 1: like when I think about the first season, part of
Speaker 1: the reason that I feel like in my mind I
Speaker 1: had felt like, no, no, no, the first season is
Speaker 1: like a mess is because we really are kind of
Speaker 1: all over the place, like different things happen, one of
Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a second that are kind
Speaker 1: of unexpected and odd, and I feel like we were
Speaker 1: trying things out. And then also when I look back now,
Speaker 1: I'm just so impressed by so many things about it,
Speaker 1: and in this particular episode, there's a lot of really
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation about power and sex and men and women
Speaker 1: and the power of female sexuality that I'm just so
Speaker 1: kind of amazed by and just happy that I got
Speaker 1: to be a part of it in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: And the other thing I think of it, I'm just
Speaker 1: going to say this at the top too, because you know,
Speaker 1: I have my drive to the podcast studio, and I
Speaker 1: always think about things on my drive in the morning
Speaker 1: before we do the podcast, and today I was thinking
Speaker 1: about the fact that I'm so grateful that I got
Speaker 1: to do the show for all of the gazillion hundred
Speaker 1: many years that I've been doing it, and that I
Speaker 1: got to grow up on it, because when I look
Speaker 1: back at myself, I seem like I am just so
Speaker 1: incredibly young and unformed, and I'm just so grateful that
Speaker 1: someone hired me and let me stay while I turned
Speaker 1: into a grown up, because that's kind of.
Speaker 2: How I feel.
Speaker 1: I feel like I grew up on this show, even
Speaker 1: though technically it's not really true. But like when I
Speaker 1: look at myself, especially in episodes like this, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like a little child. I'm like a little innocent
Speaker 1: child making a lot of faces.
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's my commentary on myself. But we'll get
Speaker 2: into more detail, all right.
Speaker 1: This episode is extremely fascinating. It is directed by Susan Settleman,
Speaker 1: who also directed the pilot, and written by Jeni Cohan.
Speaker 1: Do you remember back when I said I didn't know
Speaker 1: any of the writers from the first season.
Speaker 2: Not true. Ginger Cohan is amazing.
Speaker 1: She created Orange is the New Black, you guys, can
Speaker 1: you believe? Also weeds, and she wrote an episode in
Speaker 1: our very first season called the Power of Female Sex.
Speaker 1: She was already onto her themes, and those themes are
Speaker 1: very much in play in our episode, for better or
Speaker 1: for worse, but they are in play in a very
Speaker 1: interesting way. We also have a different DP, so in
Speaker 1: case I don't know how much you guys are interested
Speaker 1: in the technical stuff, but to me it's interesting. So
Speaker 1: our very first pilot, we had Stuart dreiberg amazing DP.
Speaker 1: It's very dark. Then we have Maurice Alberti French, very
Speaker 1: very very cool shots.
Speaker 2: Those were the first two episodes.
Speaker 1: Now we have Michael Barrow, who we had for a
Speaker 1: while and I had forgot about him, but I remembered
Speaker 1: him when I watched this, partly because the show is
Speaker 1: very dark first season, like physically dark, you know, not
Speaker 1: dark thematically, but physically dark, Like we're out at night
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: It's very dark.
Speaker 1: Also in the technical realm, we used to film on
Speaker 1: something called Super sixteen, which is kind of hysterical if
Speaker 1: you know anything about film and whatnot that now in
Speaker 1: the age of you know, digital high deaf, it's like
Speaker 1: so shocking that we filmed an entire TV show on
Speaker 1: Super sixteen. But what was great about it was that
Speaker 1: it gave like this kind of gritty softness. So like
Speaker 1: when we're out at night and we're on the street,
Speaker 1: the car lights kind of flare in a certain way,
Speaker 1: like it has a very kind of to me old
Speaker 1: fashioned feeling that I really love, and I thought that
Speaker 1: that was very much in evidence in this episode, as
Speaker 1: well as some just generally dark clubs and or restaurants
Speaker 1: that may or may not be real or sets.
Speaker 2: I'm really not sure I need to find out.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the interesting thing about this there's so many
Speaker 1: interesting things, but it begins with Samantha and Carrie waiting
Speaker 1: forty five minutes for a table. It's something that we're
Speaker 1: calling Ballzac, but it's really standing in for Balfazar, which
Speaker 1: opened that year. Still a fantastic restaurant in New York
Speaker 1: that we go to frequently and we love, but at
Speaker 1: the time it was a very very hard reservation to get.
Speaker 2: And New York is really still like this.
Speaker 1: Like we were in New York film and just like
Speaker 1: that when all the COVID things were letting go, you know,
Speaker 1: lifting and you could go out.
Speaker 2: To eat again.
Speaker 1: And I was trying to get my kids and I
Speaker 1: were just like, oh, hey, let's go to this restaurant.
Speaker 2: They would not let me in. And not only that,
Speaker 2: they were so mean. Okay, they were so mean, and
Speaker 2: I was like, why why so mean? Like we're just
Speaker 2: just back out in the world, like and I remember, oh,
Speaker 2: we're in New York. This out is it's never gonna change.
Speaker 1: So anyway, there's so many things I love about this
Speaker 1: whole Balthazar slash Ballzac.
Speaker 2: You know, fill in one is the hostess. So I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: If you guys follow the hat saga on Sex and
Speaker 1: the City and the movies and then just like that,
Speaker 1: but Sir Jessica and our costume designers love hats. Michael
Speaker 1: Patrick King cannot stand hats, so whenever we wear a hat,
Speaker 1: we have to ask permission. And I personally have had
Speaker 1: a few hats where I'm wearing like a one's coming
Speaker 1: up in a couple episodes from now. I've got a big,
Speaker 1: you know, wide brimmed hat on, but they can't see
Speaker 1: your face and they can't light your face, so then
Speaker 1: it's a whole drama.
Speaker 2: And then the dp's like, oh, you've got to push
Speaker 2: it back, and.
Speaker 1: Then you're wearing a hat and this very weird angle,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure everyone who's watching it is like, why
Speaker 1: is she wearing her.
Speaker 2: Hat like that? That's not how you wear that hat.
Speaker 1: Well, we're wearing it because you can't see our face
Speaker 1: under it, right. So to me, this hostess, this beautiful
Speaker 1: woman who plays the hostess who has to be kind
Speaker 1: of aloof and mean for most of the episode to
Speaker 1: both Carrie and Samantha, she has assorted various small hatch
Speaker 1: perched on her head, which really makes me laugh. And
Speaker 1: she pulled it off beautifully. And I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: talk to Molly Rogers, our costume designer, who was from
Speaker 1: the beginning with us, from the beginning. I believe she's
Speaker 1: listed as costume supervisor in the first season, so I
Speaker 1: can't wait to talk to her about the hostess and
Speaker 1: the hats. But they're they're they're waiting for this hostess
Speaker 1: to let them in. She will not let them in,
Speaker 1: Samantha says. This is when we start with the power
Speaker 1: the power topic. Samantha points out that if the hostess
Speaker 1: was a man, they would be sending over free drinks
Speaker 1: and obviously already be at their table, which is interesting, right,
Speaker 1: And I think to myself, like, hmm, this is interesting
Speaker 1: and I have to mould this over. This is one
Speaker 1: of those ones where I really think, like is this
Speaker 1: still all the same or is it not? And I'm
Speaker 1: not sure and I'm dying to hear what you guys think.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is still at play,
Speaker 1: but I also think that sometimes it's more like out
Speaker 1: in the open, you know, it's not so underneath everything.
Speaker 1: I feel like people are more open about it, so.
Speaker 2: They leave.
Speaker 1: They carry's really hungry, and Carrie's really like just rolling
Speaker 1: her eyes a lot, as Samantha like, I'm so hungry,
Speaker 1: You've got to get out of here.
Speaker 2: She wants to go to a high restaurant. Samantha is
Speaker 2: like no.
Speaker 1: So then Carrie decides that the way to cheer herself
Speaker 1: up is to go to Dulce Incoba and try to
Speaker 1: buy some beautiful, fluffy shoes.
Speaker 2: Well, guess what.
Speaker 1: They decline her credit card, and not only that, they
Speaker 1: chop it in half, which is super mortifying. Now, one
Speaker 1: of my producers for the part said to me, like,
Speaker 1: can you believe Carrie's not good with money? I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: I can believe Carrie's not good with money. This is
Speaker 1: a through line and it's going to be true forever, Okay.
Speaker 1: And the reason that Carrie's not good with money, in
Speaker 1: my mind is that Carrie is a creative. And this
Speaker 1: is a fundamental thing about Carrie that I think people
Speaker 1: forget where they're like, why.
Speaker 2: Would she wear that? Well, she's wearing that because she's
Speaker 2: a creative being. She's a writer.
Speaker 1: Her whole existence is a creative endeavor. She's researching things,
Speaker 1: she's thinking about things, she's wondering about things. As you
Speaker 1: guys know, she's investigating things. She's creative, right, That's what
Speaker 1: she is. She's not Sir Jessica Parker, who's creative but
Speaker 1: also very practical.
Speaker 2: She's Carrie. Carrie's not practical. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: She loves shoes. You know, as you guys know who's
Speaker 1: seen the show. This will come to be a big
Speaker 1: point later on when Carrie cannot buy her apartment because
Speaker 1: she has spent all of her income on shoes, and
Speaker 1: she comes to Charlotte and asks for her engagement, which
Speaker 1: I know is a very hotly contested episode, and we
Speaker 1: will get there, and I have a lot to say,
Speaker 1: but in the meantime, here we are seeing the very
Speaker 1: first signs of it. In episode one, she tries to
Speaker 1: buy these shoes, they cut her credit.
Speaker 2: Card really meanly, unhappy.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if they do this anymore, but
Speaker 1: I do remember being afraid that it would happen to
Speaker 1: me in life, right, and I don't think it ever did,
Speaker 1: but I remember being afraid. At which point she runs
Speaker 1: into this fantastic character named Amalita. Now many people have
Speaker 1: asked me about Amalita ever since this episode aired many
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, and I'm always like, I'm Aalita, I'm Alita.
Speaker 1: I only vaguely remember watching this. I was so impressed
Speaker 1: by Carol Davis no relation to me, that I know
Speaker 1: of though we could be sisters, but I don't think
Speaker 1: we are. But she's incredible, so incredible, and she plays
Speaker 1: this very worldly, fantastic woman who's beautifully dressed and has
Speaker 1: all these boyfriends in different countries and knows everywhere to
Speaker 1: go and all the different countries. And when I watched it,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, this is almost like an influencer
Speaker 1: back before we had influencers. Like she's one of those
Speaker 1: people where they know everything and they're just fabulous, Like
Speaker 1: everything they do is fabulous. Right, So Amalita says, I'm
Speaker 1: going to buy your shoes for you, because you are
Speaker 1: like a sister to me, and Carrie is like I
Speaker 1: never see her and I've only met her a few times.
Speaker 2: This is in voiceover.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's all very interesting, but Amalita to me
Speaker 1: seems like she's got really good vibes, you know, And
Speaker 1: she's just like, I will buy this for you. And
Speaker 1: here's my boyfriend, my rich boyfriend, and he has a tiny,
Speaker 1: tiny you know what, but he knows how to use it,
Speaker 1: at which point I'm just like, oh my god, we're
Speaker 1: so funny. Our show is so funny, and I forget
Speaker 1: all these things you know, back in the olden.
Speaker 2: Days, we used to say all this stuff.
Speaker 1: So she buys her these shoes. Carrie also tells the
Speaker 1: camera that al Alita.
Speaker 2: Is euro trash. I don't know if we say this anymore.
Speaker 1: You guys.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's okay to say this. I
Speaker 2: feel like maybe it's not.
Speaker 1: But Carrie says it without without judgment. This is another
Speaker 1: moment where I really think, through this whole episode, Carrie
Speaker 1: is remarkably judgment free up until like the end of
Speaker 1: this episode, and then you see a little bit of
Speaker 1: her going like, no, thank goodness, but anyway, we'll get
Speaker 1: to that. So then Carrie Carrie lets her buy her shoes. Now, look,
Speaker 1: I think the reason that Carrie lets her buy the
Speaker 1: shoes is because she's avoiding, like, you know, complete and
Speaker 1: total embarrassment of having her credit card caught up. And
Speaker 1: she really is fully addicted to shoes, as she later
Speaker 1: tells someone, And so for her in a bad spot,
Speaker 1: this is, you know, like a little hit of dopamine, right, Like,
Speaker 1: she's getting some shoes, she's getting some new shoes. She's happy,
Speaker 1: so of course she's gonna let her buy the shoes
Speaker 1: for her. Yes, do I think that's a little weird.
Speaker 1: Sure would I let someone that I barely know buy
Speaker 1: me shoes? Probably no, Probably no, no, probably no. But
Speaker 1: you know, this is Carrie, and she's easy going, especially
Speaker 1: back back in you know, nineteen ninety eight, we're.
Speaker 2: Way easy going. Okay, So then, oh this is so good.
Speaker 1: Then we go we go home with Carrie and she
Speaker 1: has a stack of bills and she throws them in
Speaker 1: her trash, which, again another one of our producers was like,
Speaker 1: can you believe she did that? I'm like, yes, I can.
Speaker 1: She writes a column for a New York City newspaper, right,
Speaker 1: she's trying.
Speaker 2: To go out by fantastic shoes and clothes. She say,
Speaker 2: some money for her bills. This is how we meet Carrie.
Speaker 1: You know, she's evolved a lot, but this is who
Speaker 1: she was in the beginning.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: So I was not surprised at all. And we do
Speaker 1: see that her address on the envelope is two forty
Speaker 1: three E seventy third Street, which I do believe is
Speaker 1: accurate in terms of the book that Candice wrote and
Speaker 1: where the coffee shop was that we used to see.
Speaker 1: But we're no longer seeing the coffee shop we're slowly
Speaker 1: moving into you know, we haven't had the stoop yet.
Speaker 1: We're getting the different elements of carness together. This particular episode,
Speaker 1: we see her in her closet, which is really fun
Speaker 1: for me at least, it was really fun to see
Speaker 1: her in her closet and her bathrooms in the back,
Speaker 1: and we had so many scenes in those areas. It
Speaker 1: was a good time to see it. Okay, so we're
Speaker 1: in her apartment. She's throwing out her bills very durable.
Speaker 1: She says, you know, the voiceovers back and looking at
Speaker 1: the cameras back, which is interesting because I thought that
Speaker 1: we already lost it, but no, it's back. So again,
Speaker 1: this is something that I remember from the beginning. It
Speaker 1: seemed week to week that we didn't really know who
Speaker 1: we were as a show, you know. So sometimes when
Speaker 1: you're watching these episodes, things flip back and forth and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, right, we didn't know, like was it gone?
Speaker 1: Was it talking to camera gone? No, No, it's not gone,
Speaker 1: it's back. So whatever was going on with that, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: So she says in her voiceover that she envies Almalita,
Speaker 1: and then she says to the camera, where is the
Speaker 1: line between a professional girlfriend and professional So this is
Speaker 1: interesting to me because I feel like in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: I feel like the idea of people who engage in
Speaker 1: work for sex, sex sex workers, it's just a lot
Speaker 1: more freedom to talk about, freedom to like take them seriously,
Speaker 1: not to judge them. You know, we have this movie
Speaker 1: at Nora, Who's up for an Oscar may win an
Speaker 1: Oscar very openly about a young woman of trying to
Speaker 1: live in New York engaging in stripping and sex work.
Speaker 1: We've got Pink Pony Club by Chapel Roone very openly
Speaker 1: about you know, having fun up on the stage at
Speaker 1: our high heels. I mean, I feel like we've come
Speaker 1: a long way. But the interesting thing that I think
Speaker 1: here back in our show in nineteen ninety eight is
Speaker 1: that Carrie's talking about it.
Speaker 2: She's not really judging it. She's just discussing, like, is there.
Speaker 1: A line between professional girlfriend and professional is there not?
Speaker 2: You know, where do I fall on that line? Where
Speaker 2: do I want to fall?
Speaker 1: I love that, and I think we're gonna have so
Speaker 1: many interesting conversations. For some reason, we played poker at
Speaker 1: Carrie's which.
Speaker 2: How this happened?
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do we know how to play poker.
Speaker 1: Did anyone at that table know how to play poker?
Speaker 1: Because I definitely didn't. Many people have tried to teach
Speaker 1: me since then. It's never stuck. But you know, clearly
Speaker 1: we're trying to play poker for some reason. I don't
Speaker 1: know whose idea this was. It's super interesting. So we're there,
Speaker 1: we start discussing the power of female sex. Women can
Speaker 1: use their sexuality to get ahead wherever possible, but men
Speaker 1: shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of it.
Speaker 2: This is kind of one of the ideas that's.
Speaker 1: In there, just super interesting, right, at which point Charlotte says, hmm, well,
Speaker 1: what if someone just says you're charming? She kind of
Speaker 1: like floats this idea out there gently as she does,
Speaker 1: and it turned out that there's an artist. Because you know,
Speaker 1: Charlotte's whole beginning storyline is in my mind, largely about
Speaker 1: her love of art and that she works in the gallery.
Speaker 1: And you know, in the pilot she goes to see
Speaker 1: the Ross Spleckner. That's why she goes to the guy's
Speaker 1: apartment that she then leaves. You know, like there's the
Speaker 1: art art art art, right, So in this particular setting,
Speaker 1: this artist named Neville Morgan, who's definitely, definitely a fictional character,
Speaker 1: has come into her gallery and kind of gently flirted
Speaker 1: with her and invited her to come to his studio
Speaker 1: out in rural Connecticut, which you will see soon.
Speaker 2: And basically Miranda.
Speaker 1: Says to her, if he asks you to hold his paintbrush,
Speaker 1: you know, let's sue him because that's the only way
Speaker 1: to use power as a woman. Something like that, which
Speaker 1: is so Miranda, right. So Miranda, and obviously Samantha has
Speaker 1: a lot of other things to say, which is also interesting,
Speaker 1: and she's gonna say more soon too. I literally could
Speaker 1: take just clips of Miranda and Samantha discussing female sexuality
Speaker 1: and power and play them and discuss only them for
Speaker 1: an entire podcast, I think, because it's super interesting. But
Speaker 1: at this point, Skipper shows up. Skipper, this episode made
Speaker 1: me laugh out loud so hard.
Speaker 2: He is so funny and such a short amount of time.
Speaker 1: I mean, also in the pilot, I last laughed out
Speaker 1: loud because he you know, when he comes to the
Speaker 1: bar and then she pushes it up against the bar,
Speaker 1: It's just like a really funny dynamic to me. So
Speaker 1: Skipper comes to pick her up, he's an hour early.
Speaker 1: It's like so embarrassing for him, I think. But and
Speaker 1: Miranda is just I literally could not roll her eyes more.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of eye rolling in this episode, which
Speaker 1: I also really really enjoyed. So she goes off with
Speaker 1: Skipper for a date with a lot of eye rolls.
Speaker 1: Carrie tries to go to bed and I think she
Speaker 1: has an eyemask on, which is also adorable and very
Speaker 1: har and we see many of it as they come
Speaker 1: and Amlita calls and wants her to get back down
Speaker 1: there to Ballzac, which is funny. So she goes and
Speaker 1: she's reading, which is great. She's reading a Martin Amos book.
Speaker 1: It's called Night Train. I'm sure that Sir Jessica has
Speaker 1: something to do with the book. Sir Jessica, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you know it is a huge, huge reader. Martin Ame
Speaker 1: is super, super smart, fascinating writer. I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what it is. Apparently it's a detective type of a
Speaker 1: murder mystery, which seems odd, but you know, I think
Speaker 1: she probably reads a lot of different things. So we
Speaker 1: go back down this hostess wearing a different hat. She says,
Speaker 1: you're not on the list, but Malita is there with
Speaker 1: a twelve thousand dollars bracelet that she's showing off, and
Speaker 1: she brings Carrie in, at which point she meets Jille,
Speaker 1: who's an architect from Paris.
Speaker 2: I had such.
Speaker 1: Petrovski type ideas while this was going on. It's like
Speaker 1: an early, early early version. They have like kind of
Speaker 1: a you know, European kind of a whirlwindy thing with
Speaker 1: a handsome, you know, guy from another country I don't know.
Speaker 2: Reminded me of that.
Speaker 1: So Carrie feels interested, though she says, you know, I
Speaker 1: see some red flags, divorced French and uncomfortably handsome. I
Speaker 1: just want to say, none of those would be red
Speaker 1: flags for me. I mean, that's it's funny to me
Speaker 1: that Carrie would flag those but not flag you know
Speaker 1: a lot of other things with a lot of other people.
Speaker 2: But okay, okay, let's go with it. Okay. Then there's
Speaker 2: a bunch of questions on my thing here by I'm
Speaker 2: going and ignore them.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep talking, all right. This is where something
Speaker 1: super fascinating happens. So Carrie is walking down Fifth Avenue
Speaker 1: with Yell and it's beautiful. It's you can tell that
Speaker 1: the weather is starting to turn nice. We always went
Speaker 1: to film in like February roughly, and our show would
Speaker 1: come on roughly in June. So for those first like
Speaker 1: February March, it could be bitter bitter cold, but it
Speaker 1: didn't matter. We had to still wear little dresses. So
Speaker 1: you can see everyone's kind of got like light coats
Speaker 1: in this episode, whereas in the pilot or in the
Speaker 1: first episode we've come back, we've got like wool coats,
Speaker 1: like hardcore coats. Now we've got little light coats. And
Speaker 1: the trees are in bloom. So for me, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: thank goodness, the trees are in bloom. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: warm soon. It's gonna beautiful. So they're walking down the
Speaker 1: street and they have a very sweet conversation where she
Speaker 1: kind of confesses to him that she has like an
Speaker 1: addiction and he looks like oh, and she goes, you know,
Speaker 1: to beautiful shoes. It's very sweet and charming, and he's
Speaker 1: very sweet and charming to her, and then she basically
Speaker 1: says something to the effects the effect that she is floating, and.
Speaker 2: She actually floats, which is so weird.
Speaker 1: And I don't remember this, and I don't know how
Speaker 1: they did it, Like, I don't know if she was
Speaker 1: up high and the camera like comes down under her,
Speaker 1: because I don't think they put her on wires on
Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue because I feel like I would remember that, right.
Speaker 1: But it's like a little bit of magical realism in
Speaker 1: our show there. I'm not sure why, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what the thinking was.
Speaker 2: I have no memory of it. But I think it's
Speaker 2: kind of sweet.
Speaker 1: I mean kind of maybe a little cheesy, but also
Speaker 1: kind of sweet because Carrie, it is so easily transported
Speaker 1: into being like levitating basically, which is adorable by this
Speaker 1: handsome frenchman. So also, oh, we're gonna come soon to
Speaker 1: me going to Connecticut. I'll wait to tell you, but
Speaker 1: there's a connection between the lovely actor who plays Jill
Speaker 1: and the lovely actor who plays my artist guy. But
Speaker 1: I'll get there in a second. So now we're at
Speaker 1: Carries and she makes a date with the frenchman. The
Speaker 1: next day she's there, she's getting ready for this date.
Speaker 1: Skipper comes over because he wants to talk about Miranda. Now,
Speaker 1: one thing that really caught my attention is that he
Speaker 1: does not get buzzed in. Now, the reason I bring
Speaker 1: this up is because there's an episode of And Just
Speaker 1: Like That where someone comes over to Carrie's apartment also
Speaker 1: doesn't get buzzed in, and the internet went crazy. People
Speaker 1: the internet was like, how could they get in there
Speaker 1: without being buzzed in? People were texting me how could
Speaker 1: that character get in there without.
Speaker 2: Being buzzed in?
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, you guys need to lax. Okay,
Speaker 1: my gosh. Now, in reality, yes, most buildings in New
Speaker 1: York have either a doorman or a buzzer or some
Speaker 1: kind of system, right, So it's true. You can't just
Speaker 1: really walk up stairwells to people's apartment, hopefully at least.
Speaker 1: But Skipper somehow does. So he rings her little doorbell.
Speaker 1: She goes to the door, she answers it. She's only
Speaker 1: partly dressed for her date. She's like, come on in,
Speaker 1: I'm getting dressed. Skipper very politely comes in, sits on
Speaker 1: the bed, doesn't look at her. She's getting dressed in
Speaker 1: her closet, which is right behind her bedroom, as you
Speaker 1: guys probably know. But it is kind of adorable, and
Speaker 1: you think to yourself, gosh, do Skipper and Carrie know
Speaker 1: each other this well?
Speaker 2: That she would just go ahead getting dressed.
Speaker 1: And I also think it's kind of this is like
Speaker 1: the bohemian Carrie.
Speaker 2: This is like Carrie.
Speaker 1: You know, we're all much younger, right, so it's like
Speaker 1: her bohemian self, Like, yeah, Skipper, sit there and I'll
Speaker 1: just get dressed. Like she walks through the room in
Speaker 1: her skirt and her bra. We don't really see this later,
Speaker 1: do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: But it's interesting. It's almost like we're in college. Like
Speaker 2: I watched this episode and I'm like, it's kind of like.
Speaker 1: Maybe we just got out of college last year, like
Speaker 1: we're new to the city.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just get those vibes when I
Speaker 2: watch it. But anyway, Skipper's there.
Speaker 1: And he says to Gary that you know, he's just
Speaker 1: obsessed with Miranda.
Speaker 2: It's so adorable. I mean, it really is so cute.
Speaker 2: He thinks he's addicted to her. She's all he can
Speaker 2: think about.
Speaker 1: He only gets to have sex with her in the afternoon,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't shower after. This made me laugh so
Speaker 1: hard because Sarah Jessica is so brilliant. She's touching him
Speaker 1: when he says this, at which point she looks down.
Speaker 1: There's a few beats, she slowly lets go of his
Speaker 1: hand and the next thing you see she's washing her hands,
Speaker 1: which is so funny, like it's just very subtly done
Speaker 1: with her really incredible comic timing.
Speaker 2: So it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing that Carrie says is she says,
Speaker 1: I really think that you should spend the night with
Speaker 1: her and not have sex.
Speaker 2: It's really important.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, who is this woman interest relationship
Speaker 1: advice in terms of the fact that Miranda is not
Speaker 1: going to be going for this, so I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's not great advice to give to
Speaker 1: Skipper because it's not going to go well.
Speaker 2: It's not going to go well at all. But nonetheless
Speaker 2: she gives the advice.
Speaker 1: So then Carrie goes out on this incredible afternoon montage
Speaker 1: with Jill. They go to literally all of my favorite
Speaker 1: places in Central Park. At one point, she's sitting on
Speaker 1: the Alice in Wonderland sculpture near the boat pond.
Speaker 2: You know, she's on the promenade in the park.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like glorious and the park is looking
Speaker 1: so beautiful. She's wearing a slightly insane outfit that I
Speaker 1: think involves possibly like a feather boa or a feather
Speaker 1: trim jacket. It's very trippy, but in general, stylistically, I
Speaker 1: feel like we're really starting to see Kerry in this episode.
Speaker 1: She has some fantastic dresses. Also, Amalita is dressed beautifully,
Speaker 1: like Samantha is dressed beautifully.
Speaker 2: I can see that pat.
Speaker 1: Field is working her way in there, you know, which
Speaker 1: is great to see.
Speaker 2: Okay, So they go.
Speaker 1: On this whole montage type date and she makes out
Speaker 1: with him, and then she says something like I have
Speaker 1: a rule that I don't sleep with.
Speaker 2: A man that I haven't known more than a day.
Speaker 1: But then she goes ahead, which is kind of funny,
Speaker 1: which I'm like, I didn't know you had any rules,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's all very interesting. So she sleeps
Speaker 1: with the lovely frenchman and then she wakes up in
Speaker 1: the very very posh hotel and he tells her how
Speaker 1: beautiful she looks while she's sleeping, but that he can't
Speaker 1: stay because he has a plane to catch, and then
Speaker 1: he says, I'll call you, and later on she realizes
Speaker 1: that she doesn't have his number and he doesn't have
Speaker 1: her number, which is also really interesting, like how did
Speaker 1: they find each other the next day?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's very different obviously in nineteen ninety eight than it
Speaker 1: is now. So he leaves and he says, stay, stay,
Speaker 1: have room service, and she says okay, and then she
Speaker 1: realizes that he's left her a note.
Speaker 2: She goes, oh, but he left me a note, so
Speaker 2: she opens the envelope.
Speaker 1: There is, in fact a piece of paper, but there's
Speaker 1: also one thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: I don't remember this at all, you guys.
Speaker 1: It is wow, fascinating to think about and really really
Speaker 1: interesting and also really pretty mortifying. Like I think I
Speaker 1: would definitely die a million deaths if that ever happened
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like he was so sweet.
Speaker 1: To her, and she told him about her money problems, right,
Speaker 1: I think she told him like I have an addiction
Speaker 1: to shoes, you know. I don't think she told him
Speaker 1: that her bills were sitting on her table and that
Speaker 1: she threw them away, but you know, she shares, and
Speaker 1: he says something like, oh, doesn't writing pay.
Speaker 2: Well She's like, no, no, it does, which is like funny.
Speaker 1: Also, but you know, it's all very interesting, So maybe
Speaker 1: he's just leaving her some money to buy some shoes, like,
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily think that he meant it, like, yes,
Speaker 1: I thought you were a prostitute. I do not think
Speaker 1: that he thought that she was a prostitute. Okay, that
Speaker 1: seems weird to me. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was just that that actor did a really
Speaker 2: good job.
Speaker 1: So what I was going to tell you about that actor?
Speaker 1: His name is Ed Frye. He was on a soap
Speaker 1: opera in New York called Another World, as was Charles Keating,
Speaker 1: who plays my artist, and you guys, so was I
Speaker 1: on that soap opera. I had a recurring part on
Speaker 1: that soap opera right after college.
Speaker 2: And the reason I remember is that, first of all,
Speaker 2: I used to love to watch it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys know what soap operas are,
Speaker 1: because I don't think they're really a thing anymore. But
Speaker 1: there used to be soap operas in New York and
Speaker 1: soap operas in LA and it was a great job
Speaker 1: if you could get it, because you got to go.
Speaker 2: To work like every day or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, it was like, you know, sixty minutes a
Speaker 1: day of show, right, so like Monday, She's gonna say Thursday, Friday,
Speaker 1: every day had an hour of that show on. And
Speaker 1: when you were little, those of us who were my age,
Speaker 1: you know, your moms might watch these things, right, so
Speaker 1: like if you got to stay home from school, you
Speaker 1: could maybe watch the soap operas with your mom. It
Speaker 1: was really dramatic, and I remember being super fond of
Speaker 1: them and thinking like, yes, I could be on a
Speaker 1: soap oper but that would be great. That was something
Speaker 1: that I thought would be fantastic right when I got
Speaker 1: out of college and I went on there and I
Speaker 1: did really really enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Wait are you finding it, Easton?
Speaker 1: Is it on there?
Speaker 2: What was my name?
Speaker 1: My name was Paige, you guys, thank you? My producer
Speaker 1: Easton looked at up. My name was Paige. Don't ask
Speaker 1: me what I did. I have no idea. I just
Speaker 1: remember being there and then it was very exciting. And
Speaker 1: isn't it strange and funny that two actors from that show.
Speaker 1: Charles Keating was on that show a long time, like
Speaker 1: he was a mainstay of Another World and he was
Speaker 1: a lovely, lovely actor. So anyway, funny and strange to
Speaker 1: me to realize this when I'm looking back on it,
Speaker 1: I don't think I realized it. Then Okay, they're in
Speaker 1: the hotel room. Carrie calls Miranda and Samantha to come over.
Speaker 1: They come over, and they ordered just a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of food because they're going to spend the Frenchman's money.
Speaker 1: And they have a very fascinating conversation that I really
Speaker 1: would play for you guys if I could right now,
Speaker 1: but I don't have it. They discuss money, money is power,
Speaker 1: sex is power. Money for sex is simply an exchange
Speaker 1: for power. I believe, Samantha says that, I think, and
Speaker 1: then Miranda is like, no, you know, don't give away
Speaker 1: your power. You know, you want to have your own power.
Speaker 1: And they kind of overlap each other, which is also
Speaker 1: kind of unheard of in our show and something that
Speaker 1: we didn't get to do much of as the years
Speaker 1: went on. But I really love the whole conversation, and
Speaker 1: I think that it's very interesting back then, and I
Speaker 1: think it's very interesting now and now. Like I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys feel this way, but sometimes when
Speaker 1: I'm talking to people, like, for instance, well I shouldn't
Speaker 1: mention anyone, but for instance, sometimes I talk to people
Speaker 1: about dating and dating in New York La wherever, and
Speaker 1: people talk about that younger women are into status, that
Speaker 1: they're like they might be dating the older guy for
Speaker 1: status and money or power. I think something to that effect,
Speaker 1: and I believe Blakely and I talked about this last
Speaker 1: week because people had a lot to say on the
Speaker 1: Instagram about, you know, whether men who have status and
Speaker 1: power care at all about what women think.
Speaker 2: Someone thinks they don't, And I.
Speaker 1: Was like, Lol, that's what I said, because you know,
Speaker 1: I think everyone wants to be loved. This is what
Speaker 1: I think. But obviously I play Charlotte, right, so of
Speaker 1: course I would think that. But to my mind, everyone
Speaker 1: wants to be loved, like truly deeply loved. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: more important to some people and less important to others,
Speaker 1: but even men with status and money want to be loved.
Speaker 1: I'm just sure they do. I mean, do they probably
Speaker 1: do what they want anyway?
Speaker 2: Yes, they probably do.
Speaker 1: But I do think that people, in general, men and
Speaker 1: women want to be loved, right. But I also think
Speaker 1: sometimes that women have been socialized to think that they
Speaker 1: need to achieve a certain status, and that that status
Speaker 1: might be based on what man they were dating, or
Speaker 1: what that man has.
Speaker 2: Or drives or what his job is.
Speaker 1: And to me, I think that's kind of sad, only
Speaker 1: because when that man changes his mind, what is that
Speaker 1: woman going to be left with? And I always feel like,
Speaker 1: do not depend on a man for your financial well being.
Speaker 1: That's my personal advice in general. I know I'm getting
Speaker 1: into terrible, terrible territory.
Speaker 2: At this point, but whatever.
Speaker 1: But I love these conversations because I do think it's
Speaker 1: still very, very very interesting to talk about men and
Speaker 1: women and money and sex and power and the exchange
Speaker 1: of that. And I love the kind of liveliness with
Speaker 1: which it is discussed in the episode. Then, oh Lord,
Speaker 1: oh Lord, we cut to Charlotte, and Charlotte is out
Speaker 1: in the woods in Connecticut. She's gone to see this
Speaker 1: artist who she thinks that she's going to get to represent.
Speaker 1: Now we don't exactly say this, but when it says
Speaker 1: something like Charlotte's coop, I think it says that's because
Speaker 1: she's it's like a big get to get to be
Speaker 1: summoned by this artist out to his studio in the
Speaker 1: rural wilds of Connecticut.
Speaker 2: So she goes in and he gives.
Speaker 1: This incredible little monologue about the source of all life
Speaker 1: and pleasure and beauty that is really like wow, and
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed, and I feel like we should like
Speaker 1: print it out and put it somewhere. But he gives
Speaker 1: this very beautiful speech while the lights are still kind
Speaker 1: of off in his kind of barn slash studio, and
Speaker 1: Charlotte's just standing there like wide eyed, like wow, you
Speaker 1: know what's he going to show me? And then he
Speaker 1: he when he goes on for a while about the
Speaker 1: you know, the power and the source of all life,
Speaker 1: it turns out that these are very much Georgia O'Keeffe
Speaker 1: inspired paintings that could be flowers, but they're not. There's
Speaker 1: something that he uses a C word for that I'm
Speaker 1: not going to use, okay because I draw a line
Speaker 1: as did Charlotte, but that word just starts getting thrown
Speaker 1: around right and left, just right and left, and Charlotte's
Speaker 1: just like oh God.
Speaker 2: And then his wife.
Speaker 1: Comes in and she also uses the sea word, which
Speaker 1: is also very very prescient of things to come in
Speaker 1: the show. I don't know if you guys remember, like
Speaker 1: we have kind of older couples who teach sex courses
Speaker 1: and things coming. I mean like, oh, I had many
Speaker 1: flashes in my mind when I was watching this episode
Speaker 1: of these very interesting, you know, kind of bohemianish, artsy
Speaker 1: types of older couples who have a lot to say
Speaker 1: and teach us people about sexuality and free use of
Speaker 1: the sea word. I'm sure you guys know what I mean,
Speaker 1: but I'm definitely not going to say it. I just
Speaker 1: don't think I can. I just don't think I can.
Speaker 1: It does remind me also of pat Field, though, because
Speaker 1: the highest compliment for pat Field is to say that
Speaker 1: something is sea unt. Why that was like, hi, praise, okay,
Speaker 1: but when she would kind of like shouted at you
Speaker 1: in her deep voice, it always seemed a little scary,
Speaker 1: but she really meant that as a compliment, like that
Speaker 1: was a big, big, big compliment if you could get
Speaker 1: that compliment from Pattfield. So basically, this artist asked Charlotte
Speaker 1: if she will pose for him, and uh, she doesn't
Speaker 1: exactly say yes, but it kind of seems like she
Speaker 1: might say yes because the wife is there helping, which
Speaker 1: I think gives Charlotte some sense of safety. Though literally
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that she does this. I mean I
Speaker 1: think she does this based on the show, but like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how that went down.
Speaker 2: I don't understand it at all, and it also made me.
Speaker 1: Think of you know, coming up soon, I think, is
Speaker 1: when Charlotte decides to look at her own private parts.
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember this?
Speaker 1: And I fall off the bed, which is one of
Speaker 1: the many times I've fallen.
Speaker 2: Off a bed in this show. It's always really fun
Speaker 2: to do. I did it not too long ago. It's
Speaker 2: an enjoyable thing to do. But that's coming. I don't
Speaker 2: know what season is coming.
Speaker 1: So I guess this is like a journey for Charlotte
Speaker 1: of discovery, I guess, And for whatever reason, maybe it's
Speaker 1: because it's art, Okay, She's like, okay for the art.
Speaker 2: I can do this for the art. And then later
Speaker 2: you're going to.
Speaker 1: See the gallery showing at her gallery, which is a
Speaker 1: big deal for her, right, So she is thinking about
Speaker 1: her own career advancement, like I think that is her goal, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to make a name for myself in the
Speaker 1: art world, and this is one way.
Speaker 2: To do it. And it's secret that I posed.
Speaker 1: Right, So all the friends come and they're all trying
Speaker 1: to guess which painting is to her, and I do
Speaker 1: vaguely remember being vaguely embarrassed and just trying to roll
Speaker 1: with it, Like just like the taxicab, you know, last episode.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say either, you know, I'm just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: they're writing for me. I've just gotta you know, seem
Speaker 1: like I'm game. I've just got to make it work somehow.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that I was using all of my actors
Speaker 1: substitutions in my mind, right, Like what kind of thing
Speaker 1: would I do for my job, something like doing a
Speaker 1: crazy storyline on a show that I really want to
Speaker 1: be on, right, Like, I'm probably using the very thing
Speaker 1: that's happening in life for my substitution for Charlotte storyline.
Speaker 1: It's very similar because I'm just like, I need storyline.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with this slightly insane thing that
Speaker 1: they're writing for me because I'm just really really happy
Speaker 1: that they're writing something for me.
Speaker 2: Okay, cut back to the show.
Speaker 1: We're back at Pretend Balthazar, Samantha and Carrie show up
Speaker 1: again and the host is there with a different hat.
Speaker 1: You guys, it's amazing. They think they're going to get
Speaker 1: in because Carrie has already been there. But no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it is not easy Amalita is there. She invites Carrie
Speaker 1: to come to the Venice Film Festival with a whole
Speaker 1: new group of handsome men who are this time from Italy.
Speaker 1: But one of them puts his arm around Carrie and
Speaker 1: then kind of the arm slips down in a way.
Speaker 2: Carrie does not like this.
Speaker 1: So I was really pleased to see this, like Carrie
Speaker 1: kind of you know, getting her sense of self there
Speaker 1: and realizing, no, you know, she's going to have her morals.
Speaker 1: Her voiceover says like, you know, I realize, like there's
Speaker 1: a line between what I'm willing to do and what
Speaker 1: I'm not willing to do. So then she goes to
Speaker 1: the bathroom. She politely excuses herself. She goes to the bathroom.
Speaker 2: The hostess is there and she looks all vulnerable and she.
Speaker 1: Needs a tampon, and it's so cute because Carrie's like, yes,
Speaker 1: I have one. And then after that they always get
Speaker 1: into the restaurant, so it's good. It's like women on
Speaker 1: each other's side. You know, it all works out. Then
Speaker 1: at the very end, we are at the art gallery.
Speaker 1: The friends are there. Unfortunately Stanford's not there. I was
Speaker 1: really hoping this was the art gallery scene where Stamford
Speaker 1: was there, but I think that's coming later.
Speaker 2: But the girls are there.
Speaker 1: Everyone's trying to guess which one of these paintings might
Speaker 1: be Charlotte.
Speaker 2: And I tell Carrie in her ear.
Speaker 1: Which one is me, and she tells I think Samantha.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, oh my god, this is so mortifying.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm standing there and I'm looking, I'm looking,
Speaker 1: I'm looking pleased, and I'm giggly whatever. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it was like just being game, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're in this show. This show doesn't know what
Speaker 1: it is. We're figuring it out together. And I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone, most definitely Sarah Jessica, because she's talking to
Speaker 1: that camera again.
Speaker 2: You know, she's floating up in the air.
Speaker 1: She's like, we're doing so much stuff, you know, it's
Speaker 1: very interesting to me. Now. One of my favorite things,
Speaker 1: just from a personal personal note, is that in that
Speaker 1: art gallery, Sarah is wearing this kind of kimono robe
Speaker 1: that has like payettes on it. This is a robe
Speaker 1: that still exists in Carrie's closet and just like that,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I just saw it like a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, so For me, it was adorable
Speaker 1: because I thought it was only a robe that she
Speaker 1: wore at home, but no, she wears this house to
Speaker 1: the art gallery, which again is bohemian.
Speaker 2: Carrie is creative Carrie. I love it.
Speaker 1: We're seeing her stylistically, you know, come into her own
Speaker 1: in so many ways. So I think that this episode
Speaker 1: is so interesting, and this is what I'm like, Could
Speaker 1: I just have a forum of fans that I could
Speaker 1: talk to about this, because I would love to hear
Speaker 1: your guys' thoughts, Like what do you think about female
Speaker 1: sex and the different forms it takes in the episode?
Speaker 2: Like you know, Miranda.
Speaker 1: Sees, you know, she's got the power over Skipper, right,
Speaker 1: and Skipper says, oh, I'm addicted to her, you know obviously.
Speaker 1: And then you know Charlotte, you know, willing to be
Speaker 1: painted by this artist so that she can advance her thing.
Speaker 1: Amalitea is her whole way of life is like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is what I do. I have these you know,
Speaker 1: handsome rich men, and I go where they want, and
Speaker 1: I have beautiful jewelry, and I have a wonderful life
Speaker 1: and isn't it great? And you know, it seems it
Speaker 1: seems to be working great for her?
Speaker 2: Right? Is that is that cool? What do you think?
Speaker 1: And then like Carrie, you know, has to kind of
Speaker 1: decide do I want to be.
Speaker 2: That or do I want to not.
Speaker 1: Be that and kind of you know, try to afford
Speaker 1: my shoes but not be able to and get my.
Speaker 2: Credit card caught up.
Speaker 1: Like it's to me very interesting kind of conundrum that
Speaker 1: many many people go through, men and women, really, you know, honestly, And.
Speaker 2: I think it's still going on.
Speaker 1: So I'm super curious what you guys think, and I'm
Speaker 1: really hoping that maybe you'll tell me. I also want
Speaker 1: to think this is reminding me a little bit of
Speaker 1: one comment that we got from last week, which is
Speaker 1: someone went on and said when we were talking about
Speaker 1: the value of the twenty something guys, and they said
Speaker 1: that when Blakely and I were talking about the roommate
Speaker 1: and how that was a deal breaker, which I think
Speaker 1: is what we said.
Speaker 2: We said something like that and they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, you guys ruined it for us.
Speaker 1: And then I wish I knew how old these these
Speaker 1: these people were who commented, right, because I want to
Speaker 1: know are they in their twenties? Right?
Speaker 2: Because this is interesting things.
Speaker 1: Have changed, for sure, and there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: who don't, you know, get to live by themselves because
Speaker 1: the economy is wacky, and you know, COVID happened, and
Speaker 1: so many things happened, right, So I think probably a
Speaker 1: lot of people do have roommates that wouldn't probably have
Speaker 1: had roommates in nineteen ninety eight, right. And the whole
Speaker 1: idea of value of the twenty something guys is Timothy
Speaker 1: Offense character and his friends or in their twenties, right,
Speaker 1: and Carrie and her friends were in our thirties. So
Speaker 1: there is supposed to be this generational gap happening in
Speaker 1: the episode, and it seems like we've possibly touched on
Speaker 1: it too much that made people feel upset about it,
Speaker 1: I guess. And I think that's a very interesting thing
Speaker 1: to talk about now, because I still think it's true,
Speaker 1: probably even more true, that there are these generational gaps.
Speaker 1: And as part of the reason I wanted to do
Speaker 1: the podcast is because we've been so lucky to get
Speaker 1: to do the show since nineteen ninety eight nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: which is a very long time. Obviously, we've seen so
Speaker 1: many social trends and changes, and you know, the way
Speaker 1: people talk about sex and relationships and dating apps. I mean,
Speaker 1: so many different things have changed, but yet still there
Speaker 1: do seem to be these gaps between generations where maybe
Speaker 1: there's misunderstandings, and I'm super interested by that, and certainly
Speaker 1: what happens when you're trying to date across those gaps
Speaker 1: is also really interesting. So right, some more on the Instagram,
Speaker 1: you guys, mere thoughts. You could always write in on
Speaker 1: the podcast page too, because that's cool.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with me. We are going to
Speaker 2: have a really fun guest next week. I can't wait.
Speaker 2: And thank you for joining me for are you a Charlotte. Bye,