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Speaker 1: Clo and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, the

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Speaker 1: podcast that is totally not advocating for people to do crime,

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Speaker 1: despite being a podcast almost exclusively what people who did crime.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Kildoy, and our guest this week

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Speaker 1: is the one and only Jewa Minique. Well, how are

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Speaker 1: you doing on this day of the week That is

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Speaker 1: totally a different day of the week and not just

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Speaker 1: the same day that we recorded the previous It is

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Speaker 1: not still gray out, and then I guess that it's

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Speaker 1: colder because it's a week later into December, and I

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Speaker 1: will say I'm good, still bundled up in these sweaters

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Speaker 1: and under blankets, just making it through the winter time. Excellent, excellent.

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Speaker 1: And our producer Sophie is out this week because she's

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Speaker 1: on a top secret undercover mission into a land of evil.

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Speaker 1: But our here, Ian is now our producer, Ian, how

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Speaker 1: are you. I'm doing good, Margaret, I'm just honored to

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Speaker 1: be on Mike. I'm just happy to be here. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, sometimes people don't like to know how

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Speaker 1: the sausage is made, but here I am ruining this price.

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Speaker 1: And our audio engineers, of course, Ian, and our theme

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Speaker 1: music was done for the show by the wonderful musician

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Speaker 1: on Woman, which sometimes people must hear me as saying

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Speaker 1: a woman, but no it is not. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: it is a woman, but her name is on Woman,

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Speaker 1: and you can find her music wherever you listen to music.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whatever. So this is part two of

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Speaker 1: a two part series on the armed civil rights movement

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Speaker 1: of the nineteen sixty South, and it probably won't make

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Speaker 1: much sense if you don't listen to part one. I

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Speaker 1: would never tell you what to do, dear listener, but

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Speaker 1: you might want to consider listening to part one before

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Speaker 1: part two if you haven't done that yet. Where we

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Speaker 1: last left our heroes, they were organizers, just disaggregating places

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Speaker 1: and registering voters. But just as heroic were the armed

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Speaker 1: black families that kept guard over them as they slept

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Speaker 1: and drove back klansmen with rifles and shotguns and revolvers

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Speaker 1: and apparently molotovs. And some of these people are about

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Speaker 1: to get organized, and that's what we're gonna talk about today.

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Speaker 1: You're excited, you ready, I'm thrilled. That is like a

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Speaker 1: boom moment for me, Like, let's hear about the start

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Speaker 1: of organization. Yeah. The first organized group of black defenders

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Speaker 1: of the civil rights movement that I was able to

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Speaker 1: find was paradoxically under the name the N Double A

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Speaker 1: c P. Amazing yeah, um, the National Association for the

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Speaker 1: Advancement of Colored People who show up sometimes on this show,

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Speaker 1: not just this episode, but other shows, because a ton

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Speaker 1: of RAT people have done work with the NA Double

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Speaker 1: a CP over the years. But during the Civil rights

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Speaker 1: era they were not known as one of the more

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Speaker 1: radical organizations. They still did. Really not trying to say

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Speaker 1: anything negative about them here, but like you know, they're

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Speaker 1: not known as like in the way that Snick and

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Speaker 1: Corps were, as like pushing the envelope, right, but a

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Speaker 1: chapter of them in Monroe, North Carolina went rogue. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: go on, go on, all right, So you can trace

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Speaker 1: this back to there was a black vet named Benny Montgomery,

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Speaker 1: UM who came home from World War Two. He does

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Speaker 1: steal plate in his skull because he got wounded while

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Speaker 1: you know, stopping the fucking Nazis. His white employer back

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Speaker 1: in North Carolina treated him like ship I presume was

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Speaker 1: a racist based on everything else that happened in this

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Speaker 1: whole thing. They got into an argument and Benny slid

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Speaker 1: his boss's throat in the resulting fight, So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: He stopped the Nazis and he killed a racist white boss.

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Speaker 1: I've got no problem with Benny Montgomery so far. Benny's

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Speaker 1: really aces for me. It sounds like a hero to

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Speaker 1: the state of North Carolina did not find Benny to

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Speaker 1: be a hero for this particular action, and they executed him. Um,

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Speaker 1: of course it should have been the end of it.

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Speaker 1: And it was like God and the way it's sometimes

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Speaker 1: written about it presents us if it's like this, like

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Speaker 1: great justice because he didn't get lynched like they the

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Speaker 1: clan tried to before he was executed. They tried to

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Speaker 1: um drag him out of the jail. But it's like,

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Speaker 1: but justice prevailed and he wasn't lynched. He was instead

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Speaker 1: just as lynch by the state instead whatever. Like yeah, okay, people,

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Speaker 1: that is a wild thing that continues to happen today.

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Speaker 1: We can look at Britney Griner's case where people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: she did a crime, so now she has to go

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Speaker 1: to jail. And I just if you hear people in

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Speaker 1: your circle, imagine if he lils into this podcast. You

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Speaker 1: hopefully don't have those thoughts. But if you, you know,

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Speaker 1: are surrounded by people who are like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe just remind them we don't necessarily need prisons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just imagine a world where we don't have

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Speaker 1: to lock up people for petty fucking crimes like having

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Speaker 1: very small amounts of weed. It's ridiculous, ridiculous. So so Benny, yeah,

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Speaker 1: gets executed. This should have been the end of it.

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Speaker 1: But the clan they're salty that they They're also like,

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Speaker 1: this is grave injustice that the state is the one

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Speaker 1: who killed him instead of us. Um, okay, so they

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Speaker 1: try to lynch his dead body. Oh my god. They

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Speaker 1: tell the funeral home director that if they don't hand

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Speaker 1: the body over to them, they'll kill him. Um, this

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Speaker 1: doesn't have spoiler, This doesn't happen. That clan doesn't get

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Speaker 1: their way. A bunch of Black Vets met up at

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Speaker 1: a barber shop and they were like, no, we we

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Speaker 1: can't let that happen. So almost forty Vets with their

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Speaker 1: service rifles stood guard outside the funeral home. The clan

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Speaker 1: like drove by, ready to like go be evil, and

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Speaker 1: they took one look at the service rifles, which included

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Speaker 1: Benny's own rifle, which I think is yeah, and the

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Speaker 1: clan just noped out of there. They were like, we're gone, goodbye,

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Speaker 1: plan horrible people Westborough back is asked bitches like almost

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Speaker 1: like every time they face any kind of opposition, they're

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Speaker 1: just like, oh wait, never mind, they can fight back.

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Speaker 1: Oh sorry, yeah, suddenly uninterested, like I'm sure there's counter examples,

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Speaker 1: but I haven't found them yet. Um never find them,

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Speaker 1: I know. So the local Double A CP in Monroe

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Speaker 1: had started out like a lot of n Double A

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Speaker 1: CP chapters, a sort of a social club for middle

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Speaker 1: class black folks. But in the nineteen fifties, the clan

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Speaker 1: started fucking with them in Monroe, and most of the

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Speaker 1: Double A CP members left the organization because they're like,

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Speaker 1: oh this this is hard and scary. But a few

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Speaker 1: of them remained. Um, and two of them remained were vets,

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Speaker 1: and they immediately started recruiting the working class to the

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Speaker 1: Double A CP. And they did something that no other

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Speaker 1: U A CP was doing. And this one's kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: They formed a chapter of the n r A. Officially,

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Speaker 1: they like wrote the n r A and we're like,

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Speaker 1: we would like to form a chapter called the Monroe

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Speaker 1: Rifle Club or the Blackguards as they called themselves or

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Speaker 1: get called. What is it? The only story I've found

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Speaker 1: so far at any of my research where the n

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Speaker 1: r A affiliated people did anything cool, but Wow, m

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Speaker 1: are allowed you to go back and look at your

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Speaker 1: history because you're not out here defending black people using

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Speaker 1: stand their ground, you know, like the girls who are

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Speaker 1: being trafficked and then shoot their abusers, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: get back into your old hat. Amazing. Yeah, No, totally,

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Speaker 1: And I think there's like within the sort of a

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Speaker 1: political gun culture, there are people who are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's cool when people fight against depression, you know, but

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Speaker 1: they're not clearly the dominant arc of the n r

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Speaker 1: A or gun culture in the United States. So you

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Speaker 1: now have the Blackguards. In ninety seven in Monroe, North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: a kid drowned in the unsafe swimming holes that the

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Speaker 1: local black kids were forced to use because the pool

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Speaker 1: was segregated. So the vice president of the Double A

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Speaker 1: CP was a guy named Dr Perry. He was one

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Speaker 1: of the kind of holdovers from when it was middle class,

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Speaker 1: but he was one of the ones. Maybe he rules

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Speaker 1: and he decides to stay to sit in at the

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Speaker 1: white only pool, and he organizes with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: kids who go and like wait in um in their

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Speaker 1: swim trunks and towels, like waiting to be let into

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Speaker 1: the pool. And of course they're not that into the pool. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the fucking bravery of those kids, Like it's hard

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Speaker 1: to wrap my head around how brave those kids are

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Speaker 1: to go stand there and there swim trunks and towels.

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Speaker 1: This is and this is three years before the sid

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Speaker 1: In movement. Yeah, that's uh, kids are I feel like

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Speaker 1: kids are aware but naive about end results, right, and

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Speaker 1: so they have this idea of like especially I think

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Speaker 1: you know, as a black kid for my generation. I

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Speaker 1: can't speak on this generation too much, but like the

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Speaker 1: idea of these are your rights and you should be

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Speaker 1: allowed allowed access to them is the thing that we

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Speaker 1: were taught a lot, and so you know, we would

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Speaker 1: do bold ass things as an adult you know I

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Speaker 1: may not do. And so can you can you tell

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Speaker 1: me any of those legally good stories? Um so, And

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Speaker 1: I tell you that story I will say in broad

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Speaker 1: in broad strokes, when properly eight was happening and we

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Speaker 1: were marching a lot. This is like my early college years. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, there may have been some verbal harassments against

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Speaker 1: some armed government officials as we were moving through the

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Speaker 1: streets that you know today I would not I would

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Speaker 1: definitely not do. But we were angry, and we were young,

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Speaker 1: and we were absolutely willing to tell people about themselves

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Speaker 1: and what they should do with her. Granted, not as

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Speaker 1: brave as these kids, because we were surrounded. There are

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Speaker 1: thousands of us in the street. Um. I think it's

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Speaker 1: incredibly brave to be in the fifties standing outside of pool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, without it sounds like any weapons are just

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Speaker 1: and there's one trumps and towels. It's amazing, an amazing

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Speaker 1: decision they made. Yeah, and I don't have any record

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Speaker 1: of anything bad happening to them as a result of it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so the clan they fucking hate Dr Perry. They

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Speaker 1: already didn't like him vice President a CP. He's black

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Speaker 1: and middle class and educated. He's throwing down with the

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Speaker 1: working class. He wasn't scared of them. And also he

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Speaker 1: was Catholic, and the clan has this whole thing against

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Speaker 1: the Catholics. Wow, that is a full plate of things

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Speaker 1: that the k k K is not about. No, no,

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Speaker 1: not at all. So they the clan got together their

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Speaker 1: show of force on October five seven. They had a

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Speaker 1: big old rally with a big old cross burning, and

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Speaker 1: then they drove ton our motorcade to Dr Perry's house.

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Speaker 1: They were going to stop Dr Perry once and for all,

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Speaker 1: but um Dr Perry and the Blackguards they didn't scare

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Speaker 1: and they knew the Clan was coming, and they were

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Speaker 1: they were vets. They're seeing combat before. Okay, so they

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Speaker 1: instead of a scared middle class doctor hiding in his house,

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Speaker 1: they found sand bag fortifications with automatic weapons. Oh hell yeah,

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Speaker 1: like action. They wanted all the smoke. I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so the clan shows up and they start shooting.

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Speaker 1: The Clan start shooting at the sand bag fortifications because

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Speaker 1: they're not known for their intelligence. The Blackguard fire back,

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Speaker 1: and they intentionally fire into the ground because they they

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Speaker 1: it was a defensive gesture, right, and it was meant

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Speaker 1: to scare the clan off, and it worked. The Clan

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Speaker 1: stopped their raids, not just on Dr Perry, but just

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Speaker 1: in the area. Just the Clan's just done. The next day,

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Speaker 1: the city council bans plan motor kids because they're like,

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Speaker 1: this is we can't have this this will go bad.

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Speaker 1: I love this news. This is a wonderful. That's one

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Speaker 1: thing about the clan. They're consistent and I know because

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Speaker 1: I mean, what is racism, But this ideology of fear,

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Speaker 1: it's this, I want to be in charge all the

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Speaker 1: time of everyone, and everyone has to do what I say,

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Speaker 1: and I'm afraid that that will change. It's like a

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Speaker 1: perceived threat to your power, your established you know, societal standing,

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Speaker 1: and that scares the ship out of people. It's also

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Speaker 1: it's weird, irrational. I want to stress that word, irrational,

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Speaker 1: fear that if there's equity, black people will try to

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Speaker 1: turn the tables and enslave white people, which is a

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Speaker 1: thing we hear them talk about all the damn time.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like, I just want y'all to know

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Speaker 1: that slavery sounds hard, like for both people. It's exhausting.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to force people to stay or brutalize

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Speaker 1: their body like nobody wants this except you, or trying

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Speaker 1: to make sure we do on backslide okay, black and

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Speaker 1: left alone. Yeah, And it seems, you know, it's very

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Speaker 1: obvious growing up, I mean, having decent politics like this

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Speaker 1: seems very obvious. To me, you know, I really struggle

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Speaker 1: to imagine the mindset of these like nineteen fifties white racists,

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Speaker 1: and like, but yeah, they fucking you're talking. It's exactly

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Speaker 1: that they're afraid of fucking turning the tables, like whatever.

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Speaker 1: Fucking cowards. So the local leader of the Monroe and

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Speaker 1: Double A CP was a man named Robert Williams. He

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Speaker 1: later wrote a book called Negroes with Guns and as

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Speaker 1: influential on the Black Panthers. He wrote in ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: I wish to make it clear that I do not

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Speaker 1: advocate violence for its own sake or for the sake

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Speaker 1: of reprisals against whites, Nor am I against the passive

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Speaker 1: resistance advocated by Reverend Martin Luther King and others. My

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Speaker 1: only difference with Dr King is that I believe in

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Speaker 1: flexibility in the freedom struggle. Robert had a rough couple

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Speaker 1: of years as a result of his advocacy for armed defense,

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Speaker 1: as like one of the first prominent black people being like,

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Speaker 1: we actually are completely fine with using violence as necessary

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Speaker 1: to defend ourselves. Then Double A c CP disavowed him,

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Speaker 1: like canceled the Monroe chapter over the issue of violence,

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Speaker 1: and then he was framed almost certainly by the FEDS.

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Speaker 1: It's like not proven, but we've all read about co

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Speaker 1: intel prob and ship. He was framed for kidnapping a

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Speaker 1: white couple and he had to flee the country. Him

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Speaker 1: and his wife had to flee the country for about

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Speaker 1: a decade later, he was found innocent at trial, and

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Speaker 1: the white couple had been pressured, presumably by the FEDS,

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Speaker 1: to lie and claim that he had kidnapped them. So

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Speaker 1: that's the first organized black armed civil rights or defense

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Speaker 1: organization I know about. Wasn't the last, wasn't the largest,

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Speaker 1: but it was the first that I found. And they're cool.

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Speaker 1: But I'm gonna tell you about another one, and this

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Speaker 1: one doesn't have a name. This one is in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

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Speaker 1: The clan was running rampant, and so a group of

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Speaker 1: about a hundred or so local folks organized a nameless,

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Speaker 1: militarily structured, semi secret society of armed Community Defenders. Okay,

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Speaker 1: can we just pause right there. Here's what I love

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Speaker 1: about everything you just said. They said, don't give it

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Speaker 1: a fucking name. Don't let them be able to search us.

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Speaker 1: They can't find us if they don't know who we are.

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Speaker 1: Keep it secret, don't talk about it in public. It

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Speaker 1: was definitely fight club rules. I feel I'm inferring. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate this approach to it. That's amazing. No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're you're you're really onto what they were onto. Like

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Speaker 1: they and they came from all walks of life. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They were factory workers to businessmen to gang members. Which

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Speaker 1: is not the first time. There's two times I talked

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Speaker 1: about in the last episodes that I did about people

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Speaker 1: fighting the clan, about gang members versus the clan. All

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Speaker 1: of them had combat experience, all of them were picked

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Speaker 1: for being trustworthy and of good character. There's like this

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Speaker 1: like intense background check to join this secret society. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be like these are the rules

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Speaker 1: that other people should use. But you had to be married,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't be a drunk, and you had to have

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Speaker 1: a reputation for keeping your fucking mouth shut. Um. And

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Speaker 1: I think I think this one was all men. Um.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about later about when this wasn't wasn't And

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Speaker 1: the certainly the decentralized groups included a large number of women,

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Speaker 1: as like you know, a lot of the examples are

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Speaker 1: like the seven year old woman, the shotgun or whatever. Right,

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Speaker 1: But this nameless organization they avoided all press and publicity.

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Speaker 1: And what they did is they set up armed guards

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Speaker 1: outside of activists residents. Like basically, if someone would like

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Speaker 1: slow down they didn't recognize them, they'd be like keep

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Speaker 1: sucking driving, or sometimes they as people would drive up

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Speaker 1: to places, they would set up a checkpoint and stop

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Speaker 1: them and if the people couldn't prove why they were there,

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Speaker 1: sometimes shoot at the car or whatever. Yeah, like and uh.

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Speaker 1: And then they would also act as bodyguards to the

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Speaker 1: like non violent. Once again, this is tied in to

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Speaker 1: the non violence movement. So one white activist talked about

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Speaker 1: how she didn't even know she was being protected until later.

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Speaker 1: People just followed her at a distance, concealed carrying, ready

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Speaker 1: to fight if need be, because people were getting killed

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Speaker 1: for this work. You know, before the Defenders, the clan

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Speaker 1: had run patrols outside of the activist meetings. They would

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Speaker 1: just like drive by and keep track of who was

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Speaker 1: there or whatever. They got faced down one time and

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Speaker 1: they never returned. On July, a few black teenagers went

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Speaker 1: to a movie theater to test desegregation, and over two

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Speaker 1: hundred white racists were there to attack these few black teenagers.

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Speaker 1: So these secret defenders showed up with two cars full

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Speaker 1: of armed men, picked the teenagers up and drove them

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Speaker 1: away from the mob. But the klansmen were waiting at

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Speaker 1: the entrance to the black neighborhood where they knew that

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Speaker 1: these people would be going right, and they opened fire

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Speaker 1: on the cars. The combat vets open fire right, the

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Speaker 1: fun back, the clan went running, and the clan kept

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Speaker 1: its head down after that. You know what's interesting, Okay,

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Speaker 1: m So if we look at police shooting records, they're

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Speaker 1: all over the map, and if they're shooting against like

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Speaker 1: a lot of gangsters of all ilk like don't have

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Speaker 1: their terrible shooters because you're not going frequently. But police,

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Speaker 1: you know, they have to do target practice or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and then their police so they're used to drawing or

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Speaker 1: guns or whatever. But going up against military people is

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Speaker 1: an entirely different game changing scenario. Like you are not

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Speaker 1: prepared for battle the way that they are. And I

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Speaker 1: love the idea, man. This I think is something that

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Speaker 1: we're starting to talk about and seymore in our popular culture.

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Speaker 1: But the return of World War two vets is a

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Speaker 1: huge impact in the civil rights movement. Strictly because like,

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Speaker 1: when you understand what it is to be liberated, you

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Speaker 1: actually have helped liberate cities. You're treated with respect um,

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Speaker 1: and then you come home and expected to you know,

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, go back to being

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Speaker 1: a nigga. Like it's really I think empowering to then

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Speaker 1: say you know what, no, we have all of the

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Speaker 1: tools and skills because white America didn't want to go

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Speaker 1: fight this war. Like that is bananas, Like you made

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Speaker 1: the problem worse. You made the problems by not going

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Speaker 1: to fight it yourself. I love this story, this is beautiful. Yeah, no, totally,

339
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Speaker 1: And like it's not a coincidence to me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like obviously, like most of the wars the US has

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00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 1: gotten involved in have not been good, right um, And

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Speaker 1: like I know this is like the critique to be

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Speaker 1: made of the good war or whatever. Like overall, it

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Speaker 1: is good that people wouldn't stop the fucking Nazis, right

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Speaker 1: Whereas yeah, and they had a good time to a stop.

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Speaker 1: The current US wars are not ones that I would

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, that's cool, right, But it's still not

348
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Speaker 1: a coincidence that some of the people, one of the

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Speaker 1: people who stop the Colorado. Maybe two of the people

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Speaker 1: who stop the Colorado Spring shooters wells, both of them

351
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Speaker 1: were vets, Yeah, and complicated feelings about all of it,

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00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 1: but learning how to engage in bad situations is a

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Speaker 1: skill that is useful within our communities. And we've seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of vets become vocal about over policing and

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Speaker 1: the fact that the police haven't describe themselves as being

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Speaker 1: in combat zones when they're like, you are not, and

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Speaker 1: he's if you were, this is not how you'd be

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Speaker 1: allowed to behave if you were part of the military.

359
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Speaker 1: Get the hell out. And I hope Welly continue to

360
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: see arise in that because it should be different. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't like people playing military like you

362
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: either are or you aren't. But to be out here

363
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Speaker 1: and regale you talking about how you're in an armed

364
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Speaker 1: force when you've never served a day in your life

365
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: is pathetic. Yeah, totally, you're in an armed And then

366
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Speaker 1: also just like talking about that being like, so you're

367
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Speaker 1: in a war against the American people, great, awesome, cool,

368
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: if you're in a war against the American people, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm one of the American you know, Like, I guess it.

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Speaker 1: I don't even want to say that out loud. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well this actually next one will tie into policing in

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Speaker 1: a little bit interesting way. The group from this era

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Speaker 1: that actually, wait, maybe it's time to tell you instead

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00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: of about this group from this era, maybe it's time

375
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: to tell you about capitalism and how you can engage

376
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 1: in it. And all of us who are on this

377
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: podcast like routinely eating food. I'm just going on a limb.

378
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: You speak for you, but like I like eating food

379
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: every days, addicted to food, and I like eating it,

380
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: and I use money for most of my food. My

381
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 1: gardening skills are not quite there yet. Yeah, they haven't

382
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: made it free yet. Yeah, I will say here's the

383
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 1: secret though, I get paid whether or not you buy

384
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: the things from the supposed to know. Yeah, by it

385
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: out all right? Ads back from ads, Welcome back from ads.

386
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: Those are some good services. It's usually pot When I

387
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 1: listened to cool Zone shows, I mostly hear ads for

388
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,959
Speaker 1: other podcasts, which is actually fine by me. I like podcasts.

389
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: There's a reason past. Yeah, big fan. So we have

390
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: the unnamed Defenders and now we're going to talk about

391
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: the group from this era that did all of this

392
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: most famously into grades effect, we're gonna talk about the

393
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Speaker 1: Deacons for Defense and Justice. And it's funny too because

394
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, the most famous group about this, Like,

395
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know about this group until very recently because

396
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: I just didn't hear much about the armed component of

397
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: the non violent struggle because when I was in school,

398
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: they just taught me about pacivism, and then when I

399
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: was like getting into you know, political radicalism or whatever,

400
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: I would just mostly hear about the Black Power era,

401
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: on the Black Panthers and the stuff that comes later. Um,

402
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: but so this sort of I didn't hear about the

403
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: Deacons for Defense and Justice. Nobody talks about the organizers.

404
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: It's not glamorous, it's not scary or dangerous or cool.

405
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: It's just work. But it's in this sorry, but it's

406
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: essential work. It's absolutely necessary work for any of the

407
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,959
Speaker 1: other things to happen. No, totally, totally, Well, this one

408
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 1: is gonna get a little scary, but it's gonna work

409
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: out for most of the people in the story. Jonesborough, Louisiana,

410
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: is a tiny fucking town. About four thousand people lived

411
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: there in nineteen sixty, not the size of town that

412
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: most people think about. Very often the soil there was shitty,

413
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: which meant that there were no plantations there, but it

414
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: was hella segregated and poor and had a huge clan presence,

415
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: and most people white or black work for the paper

416
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: mill or the chemical factory. There's been an n Double

417
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: A c PEA chapter there in the forties, but Louisiana

418
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: passed a law forcing and the Double A c P

419
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: chapters I think specifically to disclose their memberships because they're racist,

420
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: and so they changed their name from then Double A

421
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: CP to the Jackson Parish Progressive Voters League in order

422
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: to not have to give all of their names to

423
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: the funtimes. You got to play these games, okay, even

424
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: coming here being racist actually gotta outsmart you protected by

425
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: people that is not to be like, hey, can we

426
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: get a hit list please? Oh my god, yeah, we

427
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: changed our name. No more Double A CP because this

428
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: other thing doesn't even mention race. It's just so happens

429
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: that everyone who cares about progress in this town is

430
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: the church, you claim, except everybody so perfect. So in

431
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, the Voting Rights Act had passed, making

432
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: all voter registration and all that ship illegal. But of

433
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: course nothing changed on the ground in and of itself.

434
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: And so that's what you know Snick and Cora and

435
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: all these other groups were doing was in some ways okay.

436
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: So it's like a maz you're a part of us history,

437
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to race relations. Is the federal

438
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: government finally fucking passing some basic human decency laws, but

439
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: then not actually enforcing them or being capable of enforcing

440
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: them depending on the time and whether or not they

441
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: care different places. Um, so people actually have to go

442
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: out and do it right against their own local governments

443
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: and their sheriffs and their ship and all that ship

444
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: four Jones burroh Louisiana almost at Alabama, but Jones Burro Louisiana.

445
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: The clan is running around being fucked up. They burned

446
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: like four or five black churches, They burned down a

447
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: Masonic hall, they burned down a Baptist center, and black

448
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: and white core organizers came to town to work on

449
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: voter registration and they had been invited by the local

450
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: Black Baptist church and they were housed in a house

451
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: that got called Freedom House that the local community fixed

452
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: up for them, which is like cool and also has disadvantages.

453
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: Most of the time, organizers would come in and stay

454
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: with a family, which gives a certain amount of protection.

455
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: But instead the community was able to be like, oh,

456
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: we have this dilapidated house, will fix up for you

457
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: and you can all live there. But unfortunately target yeah

458
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: full of non violent people. Um, and non violent people

459
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: are a little bit at risk because they're known to

460
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: not be carrying firearms. So as soon as the core

461
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: starts coming to town, students in the area start fighting

462
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: against segregation, specifically black students. I don't think the white

463
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: kids were super woke. The clan of course, was like,

464
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: what's that black people voting and having a say and

465
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: how their lives are ran There's some of them are

466
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: swimming in public or reading in the library. We can't

467
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: have that, um, because that's how they all talk. Totally

468
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: no that that was a spot on, thank you. I'm

469
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: definitely not getting any acting jobs out of this podcast.

470
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: But and so they started doing more clan ship and

471
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: they started harassing the house and any picket lines that

472
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: people were forming. And they first they will like drive

473
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: by yelling ship at the house, and then they would

474
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: drive by shooting guns in the air at the house,

475
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: and then they just drive by shooting the house, right,

476
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: and since core was non violent, they weren't armed, but

477
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: a few locals were, including a guy known to history

478
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: with the awesome name Chili Willie. Hell, Yes, Ernest Chili

479
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: Willie Thomas. I'm actually sort of annoyed most history books,

480
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: like his name is clearly Chili Willie. That's why it's

481
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: in quote. It's the name he actually wanted to go by. Um,

482
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: But most people, most of the history books like avoid

483
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: specifically calling them that. They just called Ernest over or whatever. Again, listen,

484
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: if somebody has a dove nickname and it's referred to,

485
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: that gives you so much character, like depiction and inspiration,

486
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: Like you understand, like a you don't funk with someone

487
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: named Chili Willi, Okay, under all circumstances, you do not

488
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: want to pick a fight, Okay. But it's also it's

489
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: like that's what he wanted to be called. Just call

490
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: him that, totally. So, Chili Willie and a few of

491
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: his friends started hanging out at Freedom House. They're just

492
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: start sitting on the porch or shadowing the activists as

493
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: they moved through town. Basically, the deal was like, y'all

494
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: can be non violent that's great us. We're not nonviolent.

495
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: We'll defend you. To quote a CORE organizer, Fred Brooks,

496
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: if we had a picket line, these guys were standing

497
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: on the corner on both sides of the street. Wherever

498
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: we went, it was like a caravan. These guys in

499
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: the pickup trucks with the high powered rifles up in

500
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: the back. White people didn't mess with us. The defenders

501
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: would come by at night and want to know what

502
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: the next day's agenda was. Different ones of them took

503
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: different patrols. We told them. They told us we were

504
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: not to leave the black community without security. And to

505
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: quote another organizer about the impact of the experience, he's

506
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: like writing back to the rest of CORE, the concept

507
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: that we are going to go south and through love

508
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: and patients change the hearts and minds of southern whites

509
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: should be totally disregarded. So some new defenders. So you

510
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: have these defends right, they don't have a name. Yet

511
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: another group of folks want to do it legit as

512
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: best as they could, so they go to the local

513
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: as the local high school football coach. His name is

514
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas Kirkpatrick, and he goes to the police chief

515
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: and he's like, let me set up an all volunteer

516
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: black auxiliary to the police to protect the black community

517
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: and Core and the police chief went for it. The

518
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: black auxillary got no, I know you see, yeah, my

519
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: mind is melting white. It's gonna get messy, it's gonna

520
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: get interesting. Um yeah. No. So that the Black auxiliary

521
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: has given an old cop car and handcuffs, you'll be

522
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: shocked to know that close relations between the police and

523
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: the black community didn't last. Chili Willie and the original Defenders,

524
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: for their part, they are not fucking stoked about this, right.

525
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: They do not trust the black cops. They figured these

526
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: black cops are going to do the dirty work for

527
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: the white cops. They're all blue. Yeah. Yeah. So that

528
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: summer we're still some Core organizers get ambushed by the

529
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: clan who you turned in the middle of the highway

530
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: to trap the Core organizers. But the Core organizers get

531
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: out of it with like sick driving skills. They like

532
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: floor it and they basically like almost run a clan

533
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: car off the road. I think they almost run someone over,

534
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: like they get the funk out of there. That's horrifying.

535
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: But the clans people they go and and snitch them

536
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: out for their dangerous driving. The clan people go to

537
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: the cops and are like, hey, these Core organizers almost

538
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 1: killed us on the road. You should arrest them. So

539
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: the white chief of police tells one of the black

540
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: deputies go arrest these Core organizers. Deputy is like, that's

541
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: not so. I have to go back to my community

542
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: after this. I don't little my mom and the eyes like,

543
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: please don't ask me to do this. Yeah, and so,

544
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, deputy is like, well, that's not what I'm

545
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: gonna do. So so instead the black deputies go and

546
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: provide an armed escort to help the Core organizers get

547
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: out of town away from an arrest warrant. Okay, come on,

548
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: and so but there's still like, maybe there's something to it,

549
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: maybe we can still be the black deputies. So then

550
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: there are ordered to arrest some black teenagers who are

551
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: at the swimming pool, and they refused again. And then

552
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: the final straw, the Klan drove through the black part

553
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: of town with the police escort throwing out leaflets about

554
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: outside agitators because that's like been the rhetoric that the

555
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: right wing is used forever as being like these outside

556
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: agitators whatever, and Kirkpatrick is finally like, oh yeah, and

557
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: the clan have a police escort as they're driving through

558
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: the black community throwing this out, and so the deputies

559
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: and Kirkpatrick are like never mind. Specifically, he told the

560
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: chief of police that if the clan convoy ever comes

561
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: back through town, quote, there was going to be some

562
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: killing going on. Well, I thought it was gonna be poetic, like,

563
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know, some murder will happen.

564
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: You have to kill because I'm gonna make some this happens.

565
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: After this, the two groups, Kirkpatrick's deputies and Chili Willie's defenders,

566
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: they feel all right with each other now, and the

567
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: deputies proved that they weren't going to be pawnsed for

568
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: the white power structure. Good and as a ship heated up,

569
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: more and more black defenders started showing up, and the

570
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: spirit of we're not gonna put up with this was

571
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 1: spreading throughout the town and not just the defenders. At

572
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: one point, some klansmen tried to burn across in one

573
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: of the reverend's yards, only to be scared off by

574
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: the reverend's wife, who started shooting at them with a rifle. Yeah,

575
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: and once again, majority of these defenders were vets World

576
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: War Two and the Korean War vets, and they skewed

577
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: at older than the activists they were protecting. They also

578
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: had strict membership requirements. Everyone had to be committed to

579
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: defense only. Everyone had to be committed to keep been

580
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: a cool head about them. And then kind of famously,

581
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: they weren't ideological. A lot of the stuff that comes later,

582
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: for better and worse, is ideological, right in different ways.

583
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: These people were not socialists, they were not communists, they

584
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: weren't anything as a group. Individuals within them were all

585
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: kinds of different things, I'm sure, including conservatives, including liberals,

586
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: and their ideology, as far as I can tell, is

587
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: basically like we shouldn't let people funk up the black

588
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: community and murder civil rights activists. But I think also,

589
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: you know, to your point, if they're all slightly older

590
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: than the people they're protecting, there's absolutely like a generational

591
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: thing of like, you know, our grandparents were enslaved, perhaps

592
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: some of their parents were enslaved. This is liberation at

593
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: a next level. And what we're not going to do

594
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: is allow you to kill our young without putting up

595
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: a fight first, yea and I think it's a really

596
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: beautiful intergenerational play of like, Okay, you guys have this

597
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: vision for the future, you go out and claim that

598
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: we'll do our best to keep you safe while you

599
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: do that. I think that's really beautiful. No, that is

600
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: so fucking beautiful, and that's so accurate. That's exactly what's

601
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: happening here. And it's like, wow, I care about that

602
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: a lot. I talk sometimes about, like, you know, in

603
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: the trans community, about how like, oh, well, like I'm

604
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: I'm not that old, but I'm like, you know, about forty,

605
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, we do anything to protect

606
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: the like young trans kids, right and like you know

607
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: who who don't appreciate it, you know, like and like

608
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: I that I don't want to draw a direct one

609
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: to one struggles. Listen as somebody who is queer, like

610
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: there isn't absolutely a direct correlation between communities that are

611
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: actively being haunted, right, like literally hunted, and and and

612
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: then you know, legislated against is an entirely different mind

613
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: funk of of how do I just actively live my

614
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: life in society without being sucked by the government that's

615
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be protecting me, And how we how we

616
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: treat our young you know, we want them as much

617
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: as young people often can't appreciate what's being done for

618
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: them because their worldview is different, right, Like, they're all

619
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: we need to be in the streets, So we're going

620
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: to be vocal. We're going to make the change that

621
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: you guys couldn't accomplish happen, which is a thing I hear.

622
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of young black activists or even

623
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: before their activists more more, you know, as they're beginning

624
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: their journey into activism, ilse say often they're like, well,

625
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: we're not going to be like you'd be like, okay,

626
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: we we find had won a lot of battles, but

627
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: which just it's not done yet, but we will still

628
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: no matter how you feel, we don't want you to

629
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: be hurt in the same way as we were hurt,

630
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 1: in the same way we saw our elders hurt. Yeah, yeah,

631
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's generationally, the only thing I think that

632
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: a lot of marginalized communities can do is do their

633
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,959
Speaker 1: best to build a wall of protection around the next

634
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: generation coming up, so hopefully they can get a little

635
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: bit further. I think there's a direct correlation, no, and

636
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: that that makes so much sense in it. I think it.

637
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: You know, if one of the main themes of this

638
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: episode is about how two different strategies can work together.

639
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: In this case, it's non violence and self defense. You

640
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: know that the like in a similar way that like,

641
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: you carry this further, but we will stand here and

642
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: protect you as you do it. Like here are all

643
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: the resources that we have acquired, that we have built

644
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: up so that you can do this thing. Now that's

645
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: really I really like that, um And I guess that

646
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: what Alla Baker was doing, you know, um by like

647
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: being the mentor to snick without like and even if

648
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: her main advice was you all should figure out what

649
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: you want to do and don't listen to the charismatic

650
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: leaders who tell you that you should do what they

651
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: wanted you to do. I love it, Like I remind

652
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: you a lot of what Art is doing in her

653
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: later years. You know, also like being a symbol of

654
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: this one very specific and vital movement, but then also

655
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, actively working behind the scenes to help support

656
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: this next generation as they continued the fight, I mean,

657
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: being boots on the ground talking to be like she

658
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: she's such so much larger than that one moment. But

659
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: again didn't bother to try and take up space that

660
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: wasn't that was meant for the people and not for

661
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: an individual. Just it's so selfless, this work for the

662
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: people who are doing it right, and it's just incredibly impressive. Yeah, yeah, totally.

663
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: And I you know, one of the things I struggle

664
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: with on this show is that I'm like, oh, I'm

665
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: talking about cool people, but I don't believe in like heroes.

666
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: I believe in like role models, or I believe in

667
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: like respecting the work people have done, you know, and

668
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: respecting these stories. Not so that we can be like,

669
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: oh well I'm not as cool as that person ill

670
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: or do anything, but instead so that people could know,

671
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: like we are all. You know, this person wasn't like

672
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: you know, I doubt when Ella Baker first started, Ella

673
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: Baker was like, I'm the one who's gonna change all.

674
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: This ship just did what it was in front of her,

675
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 1: you know, I I don't know, Yeah, yeah, she's got

676
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: to the work just started. She was like, no, this

677
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: has to be different, and it's yeah, it'll be interesting

678
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: going forward how we as a society manage our heroes.

679
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: I think, particularly with the rise of social media, we're

680
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: seeing a decline in celebrity. Right, there's we don't have

681
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: um your Michael Jackson's where people are fainting just passing

682
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: them in the street. They're like, oh my god, I'm

683
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: in the vicinity of this person. And I think celebrity

684
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: is going to become to some degree. I think that

685
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: I think ale still have popular people that were interested

686
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: in following their stories. But I think that era of

687
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: hero icon worship is we're moving past it slowly. Yeah,

688
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: it's dead. What we should be worshiping is potatoes. Yeah, potatoes,

689
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: um and whatever. Literally whatever the first ad you hear

690
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: once we cut two ads is should be your new God. Awesome.

691
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: I can't wait to figure out where that is. I

692
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: hope it's not the Highway State patrol or gold or

693
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: one of the other many mean and evil and what

694
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: you're really worshiping is your fear of Yeah, here's some

695
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: ads a k A. Your new Gods. Okay, we are

696
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: back and we were talking about how Chili Willie and

697
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas are getting together, and it was actually this

698
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: person who was ideologically not an ideologically convinced white core organizer,

699
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: who was very into non violence, was kind of the

700
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: one who was like, no, you all need to sit

701
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: down and actually have these meetings and figure out what

702
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: you're doing. His name was Charlie Fenton. He spent most

703
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: of his summer in jail and then he came to

704
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: Jonesborough and he was super ideologically committed to non violence

705
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: um but he he quickly realized that the two things

706
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: went very well together. That building a non violence resistance

707
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: movement in Durrance, but Jonesborough required the work of these defenders,

708
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and so he was like, hey, maybe you all should

709
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: have some structure. And so in November nineteen sixty four,

710
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: the two groups met up in the Masonic Hall and

711
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: they formed a protective Association. The core organizer wasn't part

712
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: of it. Fortunately, he was like, hey, maybe meet up

713
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: and then dipped out, which is good, that is what

714
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: he should have done. On January five, sixty five, they

715
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: formally incorporated with the name they were the Deacons for

716
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: Defense and Justice. And what's another thing that I think

717
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: is really cool. The two founders Chili William Kirkpatrick. They

718
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: didn't become the leaders. The president was another one of

719
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: the defenders, the vice president another one of the deputies.

720
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: The founders stayed part of it, but they didn't take

721
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: control of it. And they set up a structure as

722
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: really interesting to me. There's members pay dues of two

723
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: dollars a month, which is basically pooling money for ammunition.

724
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: Everyone provided their own rifles, and they set up for

725
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: membership tiers, which wasn't like a hierarchy of command. They

726
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 1: had a command structure, but it's unrelated when talking about

727
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: you had your core group of dues paying activists, and

728
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: then a broader group of people who sometimes paid dues,

729
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: and then you had an even broader group of reinforcements

730
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: who could be called upon in time of need. And

731
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: then you had a fourth tier, which was basically like, look,

732
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: if you're like doing really good ship, you want to

733
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: call yourself a deacon. That's chill, And that seems like

734
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: a really smart way to run a community defense organization

735
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: that acknowledges that not everyone is going to make it

736
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: the center of their lives. It sounds like radical acceptance,

737
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: like come as you are, Like if you want to

738
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: be all in, great, if you just kind of want

739
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: to hang around and see what that's about, Hell cool,

740
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: We just accept you as you are. Just be about

741
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: the mission. Yeah. Yeah. At first, it was more or

742
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: less all men except some one or two women who

743
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: were helping on an organizational level. Slowly, more women started

744
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: becoming involved, especially as Core's influence rubbed off on it,

745
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: because Core was actually fairly actively gender integrated. And Kirkpatrick,

746
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: the guy who had been a deputy, he got fired

747
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: from the high school for starting the deacons, which led

748
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: to the deacon's first conflict with the authorities. Students at

749
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: that school started picking because of his dismissal and for

750
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: black control of black schools, which stands out from the

751
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: broader civil rights movement at the time, which was much

752
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: more focused on desegregation, whereas in this case these students

753
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: were focused on black autonomy. Um, it's is a fairly

754
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: major tension that was going to emerge more clearly in

755
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: a couple of years. But the kids are picketing their

756
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: high school and firefighters show up ready to hose them

757
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: down right because they're being fox The good use of

758
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: the fire department, super good use of water aces job everyone. Well.

759
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: The deacons staunch conservative conservationists. They take firing positions and

760
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: say to the to the firefighters, quote, if you turn

761
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: those water hoses on those kids, there's going to be

762
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: some blood out here today. Okay, again just not mixing

763
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: the words of just letting you know immediately, don't look around,

764
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 1: it's just what what will happen? And the firefighters left

765
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: goodbye again, we say, because they're just walking around it

766
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: so ridiculous. And the deacons, after they win this fight,

767
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: they get popular. A whole new group of people start

768
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: joining the civil rights movement, folks who have hadn't been

769
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: attracted to the more middle class sensibilities of the older groups.

770
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: Uh and nor the people who hadn't been attracted to

771
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 1: the specifically youth non violent spirit. You get the sort

772
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: of like third basically the people who are like, oh shit, okay, yeah,

773
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: this is this is the tactic that appeals to us.

774
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: It works. I it was the response because you when

775
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: you hear not violence, you're like, I'm not about to

776
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: be in these shoots getting my ass whooped. Like it

777
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: just does not sound like it's not feeling at least

778
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: to me as an individual anyway. I understand the logic

779
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: behind doing it, but the peple of like and now

780
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: we're just gonna allow ourselves to be be as a

781
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: showing of like what happens to us anyway is God,

782
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: it's so brave. But then you know this idea of like,

783
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: oh no, actually you can be armed, and we helped

784
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: protect and save kids. Those water hoses break bones, like

785
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: it's really dangerous. That's incredible. Yeah. I could definitely see

786
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: just regular community folk being like, okay, we have a

787
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,959
Speaker 1: system now. Yeah, totally. And So there's another mill town

788
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: in Louisiana. It's like opposite side of Louisiana, feels like

789
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: three miles away or some ship. It's called Boga Loosa,

790
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: and it was one of the worst hot beds of

791
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: clan activity in the in the in the country. It

792
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: had the most klansmen per capita anywhere in Louisiana, which

793
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: is an impressive state to have the most clansmen per capita.

794
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: In klansmen held office. They had enough power that when

795
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: President Lyndon Johnson sent a special aid to go let

796
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: give a talk about desegregation, he wasn't able to speak

797
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: the President's fucking aid like. The event was shut down

798
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: by burning crosses and angry racists. They went out and

799
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: passed the clans people went out and passed handbills to

800
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: every white family in town saying if you show up

801
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: to this meeting, we will kill you. Where they're strong repression,

802
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: they're strong resistance. Black farmers in the area already had

803
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: a very strong They had a lot of advantages the

804
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: black folks um from a strategic point of view, they

805
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: had two things going for them. The rural nearby area.

806
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: The black farmers in that area largely owned their own land,

807
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: which made them substantially um instead of sharecropping or or

808
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: anything like that. So they're much more resistant against economic repression.

809
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: And then black workers in the town were largely incorporated

810
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: into a few different unions, and therefore they had a

811
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: lot of experience organizing. And so for decades the n

812
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: double a CP had prevented the clan from purging black

813
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: voters from the rolls. So that town they invite some

814
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: core activists white some white core activists to come to

815
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 1: town and house them in a black home. The clan

816
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: shows up at the house, but so did armed Black

817
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: towns people. The clan fucked off, as is their want.

818
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: The core organizers tried to drive out of town, but

819
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,720
Speaker 1: they were followed by an angry mob in a car,

820
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: and so they took refuge in a black cafe where

821
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: the same scene repeated. Angry Fox showed up and started

822
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: trying to surround the cafe, but so did armed defenders,

823
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: and the clan fucked off again, and the basically the

824
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: organizers escorted home out of town like by an armed

825
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: caravan of defenders. One of the organizers later he said,

826
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: I thought I was a pacifist, but then I realized

827
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't anymore. That's not a direct quote. Sorry, I

828
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: said that in might direct quote voice, but that's my

829
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: paraphrase voice. And so Bogolosa formed the second Deacons chapter

830
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: after that event. By maye, the mayor of Bogolusa repealed

831
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: all segregation mandates. And yeah, wow, I'm just trying to

832
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: think of like, that's such a fast turnaround for a

833
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: space that has numbers, which I think would be you know,

834
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: a factor in the speed in which you'd be able

835
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: to desegregate a space. Violence where or the threat of

836
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: violence works, I guess like stopping other people's violence in

837
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: this case, you know, because it's stopping letting their violence work.

838
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: And again, it's funny because it's like, I'm not ideologically

839
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: committed to non violence. I actually and I find it

840
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: strategically interesting but not It's not a strategy that I've

841
00:47:55,040 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: ever personally particularly employed, but like it's still interesting to

842
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: me with it's within the tool the toolbox of activist tools,

843
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: you know. But when the national director of CORE showed

844
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: up in town, I think the I think the way

845
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: it went down is that the like local police were like,

846
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: all right, we'll protect you, and he was like, no,

847
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm good, the Deacons will protect me. Actually half people

848
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: already for that, thank you, Oh my god. So okay.

849
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: So that's like the either way non violence is relying

850
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: on armed people, and it's trying to rely on cops

851
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: and like federal troops and like the state as the

852
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: armed force, right, and so instead he's saying, no, the

853
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: armed force I trust are the Deacons, defense and justice.

854
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: In the end, after only a few years, the Deacons

855
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: had twenty one formal chapters and forty six affiliates throughout

856
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: the country, but by night they were overshadowed by the

857
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: Black Panther Party, which I'm sure we'll talk about more

858
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: some other time, and sort of a close to this era.

859
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: As the sixties were on, tensions are growing within the

860
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: civil rights movement because it was it was finding itself,

861
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: it was starting to be about more than just voting

862
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: rights and desegregation. And you know this guy named James Meredith.

863
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: Uh And I first wrote there was this guy, but

864
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: there is a guy still alive. He's a black man

865
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: with some Choctaw heritage. He was a vet. He spent

866
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: nine years in the Air Force from ninety one to

867
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. He's actually fairly conservative, but he's doesn't like

868
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: white supremacy. He integrated the University of Mississippi, which did

869
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: not want to be integrated by him. Miss still doesn't

870
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: want to be You know, I believe that this is

871
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: the like democratic governor who said, uh, like I will

872
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 1: die before I allowed desegregation in my state or something

873
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: like that. I can't remember exactly. You're welcome to do that,

874
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: I know, right. Deacons of defense are like I volunteer um.

875
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: It took a bunch of applicant aations and a lawsuit

876
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: with help from the Double A c P and then

877
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 1: federal intervention, and then he had to survive a frame

878
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: up on voter fraud, all kinds of ship. They did

879
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: everything they could to try and stop him. But when

880
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: he finally went to go enroll because he had succeeded

881
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: these lawsuits. It took four hundred law enforcement folks from

882
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: various federal agencies and ships to protect him. UM and

883
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: still racists, including mostly the fucking white racist students at

884
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: this fucking university, rioted to try and prevent him from

885
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: enrolling and like fought those four hundred cops or whatever.

886
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: So he goes to the school, he graduates, He faces

887
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: a ton of abuse the whole time from racist students,

888
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: which is frankly most of the students. For his next degree,

889
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: for some completely understandable reason, he goes to a university

890
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: in Nigeria. Yes, get all the way out of no.

891
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty six, he declares that he's going to

892
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: do a march against fear, and he's going to do

893
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: it without. He's going to go on a two mile

894
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: march from Memphis, Tennessee, to Jackson, Mississippi. He didn't want

895
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: any of the major civil rights organizations involved. UM And

896
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: I believe I've read two different things. One is that

897
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: he started alone and he intended to do it alone.

898
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 1: And one is that he specifically said only black men

899
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,919
Speaker 1: can join me, and I think that meant black men,

900
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,959
Speaker 1: It absolutely meant no white people. I'm not certain whether

901
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: he was trying to make a statement about gender, and

902
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm not trying to do this like

903
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: how other people are doing it. I'm going to do

904
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: this thing, a march against fear. Literally the second day

905
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: of the march, a white sniper shot him. He survived. Wow, right,

906
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 1: because he's still alive. He said, I was like, I know,

907
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: and like after a while in a hospital, he rejoins

908
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: the march, and he didn't trust the other civil rights organizations,

909
00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: but he considered himself at war with white supremacy. So

910
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: after this attack, leaders and and or delegates from various

911
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: civil rights organizations they meet up in Memphis to decide

912
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: what to do. Basically, they're like, violence can't stop our movement.

913
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: We can't allow that to happen. But they were nowhere

914
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: near consensus beyond this point. This is like it's nineteen

915
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: sixty six, and it's like coalition is really starting to

916
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: come apart because they don't actually all want the same things, right,

917
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: And they reached a compromise. They decided that they're going

918
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 1: to go continue this march, which is a little bit funny.

919
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: I kind of wonder what he thought about it. Because

920
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: like his whole thing is he didn't want these people involved.

921
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: But then again he also got I don't know what

922
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: he wanted about this, you know, But the civil rights

923
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: organizations they reached a compromise. Martin Luther King wanted no guns, yes,

924
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 1: white people. Snick wanted deacons as an armed defense force

925
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: and no white people, which fits better with James Meredith's

926
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: original conception of the march anyway. And so they compromised

927
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: white allies yes, deacons for defense yes. And the split

928
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: in this movement is about ton of things. It's about

929
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: the role of white organizers, and I think especially about

930
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: white leadership and like direction. Um, but maybe I'm just

931
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: saying that. I certain it's about the use of firearms.

932
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 1: It's about the growing disenchantment with the political process, specifically,

933
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: like there's this whole thing that I didn't even get into,

934
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: where like the Democratic Party was like, nah, we actually

935
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 1: don't care about you, fuck you. And and also there's

936
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,959
Speaker 1: this question about growing militancy. There's like this question about

937
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: like what people actually like want, do people want to revolution,

938
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: do they want to be accepted within mainstream society? And

939
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: specifically about the desire for desegregation. Versus black power, which

940
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: is not always a dichotomy, but it's like kind of

941
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: presented as one in a lot of these conversations. But

942
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: both SNICK and the SCLC and you know, these groups

943
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: that don't like each other, they finished this march, the

944
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 1: March Against Fear. Fifteen thousand people are on the march

945
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 1: by the end of the march, including ten Yeah. Yeah,

946
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: it's fucking cool and like, it's interesting because they had

947
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: mostly moved away from protest marches, especially the like youth

948
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 1: for organizers that are like, no, direct actionism is what matters, right,

949
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know, I think it's pretty

950
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: direct action if you're getting shot for trying to do it,

951
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it this included uh,

952
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: ten buses of union auto workers from Chicago came down

953
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: to join the march, just to shout out that the

954
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 1: labor movement did do some good things at various points

955
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: in the history. And along raise lines, four thousand people

956
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: were registered to vote. Along the way and where we're

957
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: going to end it, the last little thing is a

958
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: sort of the end of this trunk. On June ninety six,

959
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: snick's president Quam a tour a which is stokely Carmichael

960
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: and all the history books. But he changed his name

961
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: later in life, and so I'm using both so that

962
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: people know who I'm talking about. But his name was

963
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: Kami to right. And he gets arrested for trespassing on

964
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: public property. Um, which is a cool, interesting trick. Yeah,

965
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: how do you do that? I'm not I think you'd

966
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: just be black. Um ends in Greenwood, Mississippi in nineteen

967
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: sixty six. He gets held for several hours. When he

968
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 1: gets out, he goes back to the march. He gets

969
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: up on the podium and he gives a speech, and

970
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: he calls up a chant we want black power. It

971
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: gets called his Black Power speech. It was, in his words,

972
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 1: a call for black people in the country to unite,

973
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: to recognize their heritage and build a sense of community.

974
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: Quote more from him about this. When you talk about

975
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: black power, you talk about bringing this country to its

976
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: knees anytime it messes with the black man. Any white

977
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: man in this country knows about power. He knows what

978
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: white power is, and he ought to know what black

979
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: power is. And this is not the end of the

980
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: civil rights movement, but it's one of the places we

981
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: can point to a split, and so it's kind of

982
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: where I'm going to end it. Soon enough, you get

983
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 1: the Black Panthers, who were ideological eclipsing the Deacons for

984
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: Defense Snick and Core go radical as hell. They were

985
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: done with non violence. Um Core at least embraced black nationalism.

986
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: The s CLC and the Double A CP in turn

987
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: rejected black power, not like as a as a slogan,

988
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be like complicated. Yeah, and going

989
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: forward from there, there's so many other cool people who

990
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: did cool stuff. But this is where we're going to

991
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: leave the story. This was an amazing journey so many

992
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: people I didn't know about. I love learning about the

993
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: people who made the big moments possible, and especially hearing

994
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: about the Rule South where shi it was real as

995
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: health for people and like how did they deal with this?

996
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: You know? It's like and also this idea of like

997
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: we need multiple forms of activism to reach our end goal.

998
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: I think that's what's most interesting about this because a

999
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: lot of people have issues you know, with the in

1000
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: Double A c P at different times, for you know,

1001
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: they're they're focus was legality right first, and it's also

1002
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: like there are a lot of class issues. You know,

1003
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: they were recording a certain type of black person, and

1004
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to hear how at the end

1005
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: of the day, like all of these different divisions had

1006
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 1: to team up and compromise on their visions in order

1007
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: to move the needle. Um. Yeah, it gives me a

1008
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: lot of hope for where our activism is today and

1009
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: the things that were to accomplish a lot of times

1010
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: that in fighting can seem insurmountable and like it's halting things,

1011
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: but really I think it's just making the entire movement

1012
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: richer totally. Yeah, I think it's really you know, interesting,

1013
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: because there's no one right way to achieve you know,

1014
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: certain goals, and you might have to borrow from different baskets,

1015
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: and like you all said, it's it's about the combination

1016
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: or the mixture of in the compromise, you know, of

1017
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: all these different tactics to achieve the common goal. And

1018
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: sometimes you know there is in fighting and disagreements, but

1019
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: ultimately it's about just moving the needle forward. And I

1020
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: think that's really really interesting. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming

1021
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: on this this journey with me, um Joel, do you

1022
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: have anything that you'd like to plug here at the end.

1023
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, I just come find me on the internet.

1024
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: It's where I live. I love hearing from you guys.

1025
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: You can find me actual Monique to j O E

1026
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: L L E M L A and I Q you

1027
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: E hell yeah bean, you got anything. I'll just say,

1028
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: listen to us some cool Zone media podcasts. Internet Hate

1029
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: Machine with Bridget Todd is our newest show. What's check

1030
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: that out? Wherever you listen to your podcasts? Um and yeah,

1031
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: that's all for me. I'll just say that Internet Hate

1032
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: Machine is my favorite way of keeping up on the

1033
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: Internet gossip and it is like not like like gossip

1034
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: about the inner or whatever. It's really good. You should

1035
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: listen to it. That's what. It's really good. It's super timely,

1036
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: especially with what's going on and our current Internet land escape.

1037
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, I did episode where we talk about Twitter

1038
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: and and the Elon Musk change over. If you still

1039
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: need to catch up on that. Yeah, that one's fun.

1040
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: What a fun time we're all facing. Okay. The thing

1041
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: that I would like to plug is a diversity of

1042
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: tactics and learning to accept that not everyone is going

1043
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: to agree with you, but that we can still figure

1044
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: some things out together. That's what I want to shout

1045
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: out here at the end, the community. All right, see

1046
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: everyone next week. Good Bye bye. Cool People Who did

1047
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media, but

1048
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: more podcasts and cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool

1049
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the

1050
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1051
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: your podcasts.