1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Is this a great game or what? And 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: our dear friend Jane Levy is our guest. She, of course, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: is the renowned author of, among other things, books on Babe, Ruth, 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Mickey Mantles, Sandy Kofax, and now she has a new 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: book out called Make Me Commissioner. I Know What's wrong 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: with Baseball and how to fix it? 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: Jane, this is my son, Jeff. Jeff. 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 3: I think I knew about you when you were like 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 3: what's called in Yiddish of boy chick Jeff Jacal, the 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 3: copy editor of the book. I shouldn't be telling this, 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 3: but I'm going to The copy editor of the book 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 3: flagged that word when he first read it because there's 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: a chapter about Alex Bregman and who is Jewish, and 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: therefore I refer to him as boy chick. Now you 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 3: are smart. What do you hearing the word boys? 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: Hit? 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 3: You hear boys shit? What do you think it might mean? 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: It's a young boy, it's a young boy. It's affectionate. 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 3: And he goes through the he goes through old baseball 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 3: encyclopedias and baseball reference and you name it, and he 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 3: comes back to me. He says, there was no boy 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: chick whoever played. 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: So good? Okay, and Jane, you may know you should 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: know this, but Alex Bragman's dad, Sammy, and his uncle 25 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: Benny went to Walter Johnson High School, and Benny was 26 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: a sophomore when I was a senior. So every time 27 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: I see Alex, there is some sort of mini conversation 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: about Walter Johnson High School, which I've always just loved. 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: When I asked Dusty Baker, who would be the best 30 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: guy not just on his team, but the best guy 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: in baseball to talk to about the change specifically in 32 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: hitting and what happened with the advent of statcast, he said, Bregman, 33 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: you know he's smart and he and he can talk 34 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 3: about it, and based on that we've become pals. Though 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: I haven't sent him the baby present, I promise for 36 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: the new guy. Jane. 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: To that end, give me someone you've interviewed so many 38 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: people in your life. Give me someone that you interviewed, 39 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: maybe for the first time, that you were fascinated by 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: or at least pleasantly surprised. 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: How come I haven't talked to this guy before? 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 4: Now? 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: Does it have to be baseball? Before I mess up? 44 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 3: The last name there a guy named Eric Candell who 45 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 3: was as a neuroscientist, and he was the guy who 46 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: explained to me better than anybody, why Michael Jordan couldn't 47 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 3: hit a curve ball, and how the brain works at 48 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 3: a younger age as opposed to an older age, and 49 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,559 Speaker 3: the skills you can learn when your brain is malleable 50 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: in certain ways that it later can't same way, that 51 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: language can't be learned as easily, and it I mean 52 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: it was. He explained the two different kinds of memory. 53 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: Now lots of people are writing about this. You know 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 3: what it comes down to is Jogi was right. You 55 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: can't you know, hit and think at the same time, 56 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: because you know, there's two kinds of memory, implicit and 57 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: explicit memory. The implicit is comes after the explicit. Explicit 58 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: is when you get your driving at your new driver, 59 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: you're driving down the street, you come to a four 60 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: way stop and you have to tell yourself, okay, this 61 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: is a four way stop. I have to step on 62 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: on on the break, I have to look all ways 63 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: before proceeding. Now, after you become a you know, seasoned driver, 64 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 3: you don't have to talk yourself through it anymore. It's 65 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: no longer an explicit memory or task, and it moves 66 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: literally to another side of the brain. And that side 67 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 3: of the brain is an implicit memory. And what happens 68 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 3: actually with hitters is if you and there have been 69 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 3: experiments I think I refer to them in the book, 70 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: if you ask a hitter to explain what he's doing 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: while he's doing it, he will screw up. Those two 72 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 3: things are incompatible. So imagine Mickey Mabel trying to explain 73 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 3: what he was doing. He couldn't. He couldn't explain it. 74 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: Why are you know? Guys like that not good managers 75 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: or coaches. They can't explain it. It's moved from the 76 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 3: light side to the dark side. Yes, and Eric Handel 77 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: is a genius, and you know his work is foundational 78 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: in science. And he taught me. He just taught me 79 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: an incredible amount that I was able and I used 80 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 3: it in the mantlebook actually and a little bit in 81 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: here because other people subsequently have worked on it, and 82 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: among them Rob Gray, who is at Arizona State and 83 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: then he joined the Red Sox for a while as 84 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 3: a as a consultant, and now he's with the Cobs 85 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: because he's done all these exercises and tests of about 86 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: what allows a hitter to flourish best and thinking, ain't it. 87 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: Well to that end, Jane, I remember, you know Robin 88 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: Ventura used to charge a bunt better than anyone other 89 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: than maybe Brooks Robinson. So Bobby Valentine's manager asked him 90 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: once to show everyone on the team, especially the young 91 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: third basement, every one step at a time, how you 92 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: make the bunt play. And he said, I can't explain it, 93 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: but I could do it. And to me, that's another 94 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: beauty of athletics, but especially baseball. I can't tell you 95 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: how to do it, but I can show you how 96 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: to do it. And that's what you learned from Eric 97 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: canned out. 98 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: Right, exactly right, and it's it makes so much sense, right, 99 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 3: I mean, when does instinct take over? When does it 100 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 3: become second You know what we call second nature? Now, 101 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 3: second nature for great hitters is something you and I 102 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 3: don't have. Sorry guys, but we don't have that. They 103 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 3: have that. But try What Gray did was say, okay, 104 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: tell me exactly what you're doing, step by step by 105 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: step by step. Their results tanked. They just can't do 106 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: both because what you're doing when you do that is 107 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 3: you're forcing them to take what has become an implicit memory, 108 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: something you've assumed and incorporated back to explicit where you 109 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 3: have to like walk yourself through the steps and say, 110 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 3: oh no this, and then it isn't it. It screws 111 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: them up completely. 112 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 4: I saw a picture of a former guest of our show, Cakes, 113 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 4: Jim Palmer, with. 114 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: Your book in his hands. Tell us a little bit. 115 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: About that relationship, because we love Cakes. He was a 116 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 4: fantastic guest for us and obviously an incredible picture now 117 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 4: an incredible broadcaster. 118 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: Tell us about that relationship. 119 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I told him, and I was up 120 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: at the stadium for this series with the Dodgers, and 121 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: I confessed him. I brought him a book and to 122 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: thank him because he was extremely helpful. I mean, he 123 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: gave me more time than just about anyone else. And 124 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: he he was eloquent and you know smart. And I 125 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 3: said to him, you know, I have to tell you this. 126 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: I've known you since I was cub reporter with the 127 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 3: Washington Poe in nineteen seventy nine, and I always thought 128 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: Cakes had to do with your tushy. I never knew 129 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: it was about the polkakes. So anyway, so we have 130 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: that kind of relationship. Jim was great because he was 131 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: able to explain to me not just a difference in 132 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 3: how you pitch. You know, technically, you know what's different today, 133 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: but he was able to articulate in ways that frankly beautiful, 134 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 3: what today's pitchers are missing, what they're not getting to 135 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 3: do that. You know, he and Covax and the other grades. 136 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 3: He said, yeah, I'm going to blow this, and I 137 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 3: stupidly didn't have an index in the book, so I'm 138 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 3: not sure I can find it really fast. But you 139 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: talk about, you know, if you want to know what 140 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 3: you're made of, if you want to know how much 141 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: heart you have, how tough you are, how well conditioned 142 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 3: you are, try facing your strem Ski blah blah blah 143 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 3: blah blah at Fenway Park. You know, when you've pit 144 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 3: when you've thrown one hundred and forty hundred and fifty 145 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 3: hundred and sixty pitches and figuring out a way to 146 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: get him out. You know, he said, those guys don't 147 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 3: have that chance. And the fact that he was turning 148 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: it inside out. You know, everybody says, oh, they're protecting them, 149 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: they're protecting them. It's a loss. It's a loss not 150 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: just to the athlete to see how good they can be, 151 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 3: it's a loss to the fan to not get an 152 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 3: opportunity to think along with that picture, see what he's 153 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: going to come up with, and you know, and then 154 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: Jim said, and again this is why I thought this 155 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: was great, He said, you know, so they lose that, 156 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: But what I worry about is the fan who doesn't 157 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 3: get to see that kind of effort. I mean the 158 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: day that the day after Davey Roberts pulled Clayton Kershaw 159 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 3: out of his perfect game seven innings in Minneapolis in 160 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: twenty April twenty twenty two, his first start of the season, 161 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: coming into a season where he had been injured before 162 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: arm injury, it was called at a logic says take 163 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 3: him out. He took him out. Every manager I talked 164 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: to said they would do exactly the same thing. What 165 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 3: build a spacemanly you know, calls meet says he's crying. 166 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 3: He's crying. And I said, spaceman, why are you crying? 167 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 3: And he said, because the guy didn't get a chance 168 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 3: to find out how good he could be. And that's 169 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: what baseball's missing today. That's that is, you know, at 170 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: bottom It's also how to field a bunt. It's also 171 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 3: how to cut a base. It's also how to turn 172 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: a double play. It's also how to catch a ball 173 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: the outfield. If you're Aaron Judge, I'm sorry, Yanks, Jane. 174 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: The base running in baseball I wrote this story five 175 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: years ago is the worst I remember I have ever seen. 176 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: And I could write the seven thousand word story five 177 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: more times with all the mistakes that I've seen. So 178 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: when you talk about how I know what's wrong and 179 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: I can make it better, I think I would start 180 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: with teaching about a round the bases, but you have 181 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: other places to go with this. Give us another thing 182 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: that really bothers you about baseball now, and what you 183 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: would do to fix it. 184 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 3: So you know the pitching crisis is abhorrent. It's a 185 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 3: result of human beings not asserting the right to make 186 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 3: decisions and to use their judgment and let numbers decide everything. 187 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 3: You know, numbers can tell you what will happen nine 188 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: times out of ten. They can't tell you what's going 189 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 3: to happen the tenth time, right. It can only predict 190 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 3: so much, and so in the absence of certitude, you 191 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: know they're wrong. About Raj Davis, they're wrong about Jeter's 192 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: foot play, they're wrong about so many, you know, improbables. 193 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: So the numbers have conspired against Joe Maddens' is against greatness, 194 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 3: I would put it as is conspired against improbables. I 195 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 3: think that where the pitching troubles me the most is 196 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 3: first of all, the idea that these guys are fungible 197 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 3: and if you'd break them, and you know, kind of 198 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 3: just another guy who can do exactly the same thing 199 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 3: come along afterwards. That's cruel. I don't like that. But 200 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 3: it isn't just human tissue that's breaking. It's the game 201 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: that is breaking, because you can't root for guys who 202 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 3: aren't there. So how do you have a relationship? How 203 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 3: do you entice somebody to come to a ballpark, you know, 204 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 3: and say you might get to see something you've never 205 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 3: seen before, like a perfect game or a no hitter. 206 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: You know, when they're not allowed to finish those games, 207 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: or when you know the only way they're allowed to 208 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: throw is a way that increases the probability that their 209 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 3: career will be short and that surgery will be you know, 210 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: if not once they'll have at least a revision, maybe 211 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: even three. But the analytics and the injuries that have 212 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: resulted from them, from the way that analytics tells people 213 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: it's best to throw one hundred miles an hour, you know, 214 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: Max Eve as often as you can, means that baseball 215 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: can't tell the stories that baseball told. The narratives are destroyed. 216 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 3: You know, you used to go to the ballpark to 217 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 3: see a matchup right between a pitcher in a batter 218 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,359 Speaker 3: or a pitcher and a pitcher. They're gone. They're just gone. 219 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 3: So what do you have to root for? And that 220 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 3: really troubles me. And so you may completely think I'm insane, 221 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: but I would completely re configure how a pitching staff 222 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 3: is staffed. I would have a healthy scratch list like 223 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: in hockey. I would increase the number of pitchers available. 224 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 3: Every manager is scraping around at the by the end 225 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 3: of July to find somebody who can give him three outs. Right, 226 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: they're scanning the waiver wires, they're scanning emergency rooms. Please 227 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 3: come through. 228 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 5: I offered myself to Dave Roberts the other day, and 229 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 5: boy was I touched that he let Yamamoto stay in 230 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 5: and he said afterwards, I wanted it for him. 231 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 3: I wanted him, wanted it for him bad. This is 232 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 3: the guy who took Kersho out. This is the guy 233 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: who took rich Hill out because of his his blisters 234 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 3: and and I, you know, I was so glad to 235 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: see that. So I think if you increase the number 236 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: of pictures, I mean, why should a yesterday's starting pitcher 237 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: be counted among your roster of pictures. You're not going 238 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: to use them the next day, So allow them to 239 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 3: have more more choices and shuffle people back and forth 240 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: according to whose arm is the tiredest, who's thrown the 241 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: most innings recently. They'll save so much money on Tommy 242 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: John surgeries, they'll be able to afford the extra salaries. 243 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: I think you probably read as closely as I did 244 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 3: the very good report that Major League Baseball put out 245 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 3: in December about injuries, and they of the one billion 246 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 3: dollars they spent on, you know, healthcare for baseball players 247 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 3: last year, two thirds of it was on pitching injuries. 248 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: That's it's insane. So you look at the numbers of 249 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: how much, you know, Ron Washington said, I'm tired of 250 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: paying people to sit on the il. Well, they should 251 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 3: be tired of it. And whatever they thought they were 252 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 3: doing hasn't worked. It's just gotten worse. I just spoke 253 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: to Glynn Fleisig, the guy who has done a lot 254 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: of the studies for biomechanical studies for MLB. He has 255 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 3: an idea of how to change the ball that he 256 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 3: thinks will work. Have you seen that? Is that new report? 257 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: I have not seen it, but I know of it, 258 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: and I'm with you, Jane. We have to do something 259 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: because our pitchers are getting hurt at an alarming rate. 260 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: It's a paradox. 261 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: The more we try to protect them, the more often 262 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: they get injured. And I back to Bill leave for 263 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: a minute. He never got hurt. Well, he got hurt 264 00:16:59,520 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: in a fight. 265 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: But so what was Greg nettl right? 266 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: What was it like dealing with him? 267 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure he called you more than once in tears 268 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: or screaming or crying or laughing. What was it like 269 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: dealing with the spaceman when he chimed in? 270 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: You know, you know the chalkboards we used to have 271 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 3: and we wanted to count things. We'd make four lines 272 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: and then cross through it to count. You know that's five, ten, fifteen. 273 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 3: I have a chalkboard for the spaceman. A spaceman has 274 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: shown up at my house for unexpected sleepovers. Okay, you're 275 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 3: here now. You know the best thing about this, Timmy 276 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 3: and Jeff, it was it was and I probably should 277 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: have expected it more than I did. It was talking 278 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: to these people. I've gotten to the point, yes I 279 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 3: am older than you, Tim where I felt I didn't 280 00:17:54,040 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 3: have to interview the most likely subjects. I didn't have 281 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 3: to go to people with a received wisdom. I wanted 282 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 3: to go and talk to people who were likely to 283 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 3: be honest, either because of where they because of the 284 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 3: nature of who they are, or because they were near 285 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 3: the end of the road professionally and felt they could be, 286 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 3: you know, more forthright. And it reignited my love for 287 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: the game. I mean, you know, getting to spend a 288 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 3: lot of time with Billy is a hoot. It's just 289 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 3: it's just a whot. He wouldn't throw. I have a 290 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 3: picture when he showed up in my house at Cape 291 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 3: Cod he came to a game. I introduced him to 292 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 3: Dan Oakrin on the field on the hillside at the 293 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 3: Orleans Firebirds Stadium, which is park, which is the most 294 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 3: beautiful place in baseball as far as I'm concerned. And 295 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 3: Bill decided that he needed to stretch his legs against 296 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: the slope. It's a very steep slope. So he's bent over, 297 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 3: you know, with his head between his legs, watching the 298 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 3: game toat his legs and trying to talk over it 299 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 3: at the same time. You know, two of baseball's most 300 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 3: original thinkers, right, And I said, did you realize that 301 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 3: you were mooning the field? He goes, no, I didn't, 302 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 3: but that's the product of genius. So he comes to 303 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: my house and my dog, who is a mescot for 304 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 3: the Firebirds, you know, brings him too. These chucketballs. Capitalism 305 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 3: is great. Whoever invented that damn orange chucketball is a gazillionaire. 306 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: And so she brings the ball and she puts it 307 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 3: down by his foot and he ignores her. Why because 308 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 3: he is then stretching his achilles and his calf muscles 309 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 3: on the deck and he is mooning the sunset. And 310 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 3: Betty the dog is like standing there looking at the ball, 311 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 3: you know, willing it to move, willing him to pick 312 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 3: it up. He will not not be I mean, she 313 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 3: brought him home thinking she finally found somebody really good 314 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 3: to play catch. With but no. Finally he comes back 315 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 3: was the last fall. He comes back through Washington and 316 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 3: he ends up in my in my pool. He's telling 317 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 3: stories in the pool, and I said, you know, you're 318 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 3: only allowed in the pool if you throw it to Betty. 319 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: So he goes, I'm not thrown to the dog. And 320 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 3: he has a dog that he picked up on a highway, 321 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: uh Clarissa on a highway in Mississippi, goes everywhere with him. 322 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 3: So just before he left, he threw a ball to 323 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 3: Betty and let me just say that she had as 324 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: much luck with it as Tony Perez had with the 325 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: over the shoulder catch. You know, it's it's what Bill 326 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: Lee tells you is that baseball used to have characters 327 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: and used to tolerate and enjoy characters in a way that 328 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: it doesn't today. It's not just that the numbers are homogenized, 329 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 3: meaning that we get homogenized rosters and homogenized lineups. We 330 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: have homogenized players. You know, how many of them can 331 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 3: you think of who really will sit down and talk 332 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: to you or how much how many rules do you 333 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: have to break to sit down and talk to somebody 334 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 3: for more than five minutes? Right, can't. You can't know 335 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: them anymore, Dane. 336 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: In my second book, I wrote a chapter just on humor. 337 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: All the funny people and all the people I mentioned 338 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: played in the eighties before the Internet came along, before 339 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: they became so self conscious, like what is this going 340 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: to do to me if I say the wrong thing. 341 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: That's one of the things that I miss the most 342 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: are players who are willing to share some thing funny, 343 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: unusual without fear of getting in trouble on the Internet. 344 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: One of my favorites is Terry Pendleton. I was talking 345 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: about the parade of players to the I l you know, 346 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 3: a virtual conga line off over the bodies. He tells Glavin, 347 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 3: we were better off fat, to which I replied, you 348 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 3: can't tear fat, Dane. 349 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 2: That's that's fantastic. 350 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 4: Now you talked about igniting, reigniting your love of the 351 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 4: game and for so many people. 352 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: You know. 353 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 4: Our guest from two weeks ago was Jesse Cole, the 354 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 4: founder of the Savannah Bananas. 355 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 2: And I know you, like I are a fan of 356 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: what they're doing. 357 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 3: Is there no no no no no no no no 358 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: no no, Jeff, slow down. What I said was and 359 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 3: I said to Mike Rizzo repeatedly major League Baseball needs 360 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 3: to learn from them, learn from them. They don't need 361 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 3: to do and nor do I advocate them doing what 362 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: the Sonamta bananas are doing. I don't want to see 363 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 3: Grisham tried to make a catch of the outfield doing 364 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 3: a sumrsault. No, I want baseball to be baseball. I 365 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 3: want baseball to be excellent baseball. But they do need 366 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 3: to think like he thinks, that's what's missing. You said 367 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 3: it yourself. I think if I remember correctly, you know, 368 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 3: fans first entertainment always, that's what they need to learn. 369 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 3: And the thing the shivolts, the things that they think 370 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 3: cannot be done because they're just not done, well, guess 371 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: what they're not. You know, they're they're not the Ten Commandments. 372 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 3: You can have a player go into the stands and 373 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 3: talk to people during you know, during a game. If 374 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 3: you're on the il for sixty days, you know what, 375 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 3: you can show up and go talk to people the 376 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 3: way Joey Vado did in Cincinnati. The mindset is so destructive. 377 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 3: He was worried, you know, he was kind of nervous. 378 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: He went with trepidation. This is right at the end 379 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 3: of his you know, near the end of his career, 380 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: he had been made the Red Roberto Clemente Award nominee. 381 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 3: And this is so lovely. He had a Pirates jersey 382 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: on a twenty one, and he felt uncomfortable because, after all, 383 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 3: he's a Cincinnati read, you know, and I thought that 384 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 3: was great. So he didn't want to keep the jersey. 385 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 3: So he thought, I can make somebody's day. I'm going 386 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 3: to go into the stands. He went to parts of 387 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 3: Great American Ballpark he had never never gone to, you know, 388 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: the top of it, and he wandered around waiting for 389 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 3: people to notice, and they did, and he sat down 390 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 3: and he talked to them, and he gave autographs and 391 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 3: he stayed out there. He was with the people for 392 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: you know, more than an hour, and his apprehension what 393 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 3: were they going to want? What were they going to demand? 394 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 3: What were they going to do to him? Disappeared and 395 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 3: he was charmed. That's his work, charmed, charmed by it. 396 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: And we need to get back to the place where 397 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 3: there's an actual relationship because everything about baseball, from the 398 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 3: infrastructure to the minor league, you know, minor rules like 399 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 3: you know, David Roberts said, have the home team take 400 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 3: batting practice last again, for God's sake, I used to 401 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 3: go to Yankee Stadium when the gates opened to see 402 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 3: Mickey Mantle. That's how I became a baseball fan. You know, 403 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 3: you can't do that anymore. Have players give clinics again 404 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 3: held Mickey Mantle may have been you know, hungover, but 405 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 3: he gave the clinics right, And I mean I took 406 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 3: one of them. So there are all sorts of ways 407 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 3: in which small ways doesn't cost any money, you know, 408 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 3: to make put fans first. 409 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 4: Jane, I love that, Jane. And as as a as 410 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 4: a you know, fan of the game my entire life, 411 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 4: there was there was nothing like getting to a ballpark early, 412 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 4: as you mentioned, and just seeing your heroes walking around 413 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 4: being normal people, even if it's on the field right, 414 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 4: just hanging out, shagging balls, having fun, chatting. 415 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 2: With your buddies. You can say, hey, what do you 416 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: think they're talking about? There? 417 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 4: We're missing that in the game for our kids. And also, 418 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 4: I mean I can't throw the stat out here, but 419 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 4: average of maybe a couple of balls that leave the 420 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 4: ballpark and a couple of foul balls, but you could 421 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 4: get a BP ball you really could if you got 422 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 4: there early enough and ran around with the other kids. 423 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 4: We're missing that in the game. 424 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: For Jane. Your boy Sandy Kofax, fascinating man, regal elegance. 425 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: You wrote a great book on him. When you asked 426 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: him to help contribute to this book, go to a 427 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: game with me and tell me what you see. What 428 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: was his answer to that. 429 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 3: It was actually the first My first idea for how 430 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 3: to do this was to get Joe Tory and Sandy 431 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 3: Kohx to go to a game with me and tell 432 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 3: me how it would have been played in nineteen sixty six. 433 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: And you know, in this instance they would have you know, 434 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 3: the play would have been blah blah blah, you know, 435 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 3: or they would have thrown blah blah blah. And Joe 436 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 3: was all in, and I said, Sandy's never going to 437 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 3: do it. He goes, oh, let me talk to him, 438 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: So he calls Govec says, but then I'd have to 439 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 3: go to a Balkan. And I later saw him at 440 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 3: a no I thought. I first came up with the 441 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 3: idea seeing them in Cooperstown on the veranda of Theyota 442 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 3: Saga at a breakfast where Joe said he was twenty nineteen. 443 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 3: It was at Mariano's induction where Joe said hard to 444 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 3: watch and Sandy said, I don't watch. So I wasn't 445 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 3: entirely surprised by his answer, but more than anything else, 446 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 3: those two things were the impetus for doing this, because 447 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 3: I thought, if baseball's lost of those guys, you know, 448 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 3: they're really in trouble. They're really really in trouble. And 449 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 3: you know, Rob Manford is not to blame for all 450 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 3: of this. This is this was a decade's worth of 451 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 3: indecision and bad decisions, and they have done some things 452 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 3: really right. You know, pitchclock absolutely absolutely necessary getting rid 453 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 3: of the shift. In my view, thank you, thank you, 454 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 3: thank you. I'm not a big fan of the big bags. 455 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 3: I think you should learn to run the bases the 456 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 3: right way and not get the extra four inches, because 457 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 3: Ron Washington shown me how you do it the right way, 458 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 3: just like Ventura showing Mets players how to bunt. But 459 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 3: they've really they've done some things right, but they still 460 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 3: have institutional problems that I don't see them addressing. I 461 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: don't see how you go to spring training in February 462 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five and announce there's gonna be a lockout 463 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 3: on December second, twenty twenty six, when the CBA expires. 464 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 3: What kind of way is that to sell baseball to fans? 465 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: How do you say to somebody, you know, we want 466 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 3: you to come, we want you to be invested, we 467 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 3: want you to love us. But once you're there, we're 468 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 3: gonna all over again. That's nuts. And then to say 469 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 3: and you should expect it's the new norm because you know, 470 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: and it's okay, because it's like using a twenty two 471 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 3: rather than a rather than a nuclear weapon. You know, 472 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: how do you say that defense and not understand the 473 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: impact on that on everyday people? That's you know, that's 474 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 3: that's a crayon to use the French. I just I 475 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 3: was stupefied by that. I think they have a real 476 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure you agreed, Tim, there's a real 477 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 3: problem with between the union and management. And it's been 478 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: there since I covered the nineteen eighty one baseball strike. 479 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 3: The adamus is real, and it's institutional, and it's it's 480 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 3: it's encased in glacial ice. 481 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: And Jane I covered the eighty one strike. Also the 482 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: worst assignment I my life. Marvin Miller screamed at me, 483 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: not once, but twice, and I deserved it both times 484 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: because I wasn't quite sure what I was doing. I 485 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: was like twelve years old. Not the point. The point is, 486 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: you're right, Jane, we have to get through this, and 487 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: this is what worries me. But Jane, you do not 488 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: come across as angry to me. You can't come across 489 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: as passionate and that you just want it fixed to 490 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: get the game back that you love. 491 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 3: Have I read that properly? Absolutely? I think I say 492 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 3: right at the beginning, I'm the person like Sidney Kovacs 493 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: apparently who's still in love with the game and never 494 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 3: fell out of love with the game. When Dave Smith, 495 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: you know, your buddy and mine, the guy who created 496 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 3: retro sheet, which is an extraordinary accomplishment to have gathered 497 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 3: from volunteer, the effort of volunteers two hundred I think 498 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 3: they're up to two hundred and fifteen thousand play by 499 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 3: play and for baseball games going all the way back. 500 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 3: That's an enormous accomplishment. When he said I think I've 501 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 3: given enough of my life to baseball, I would phew. 502 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 3: That's serious stuff. I mean, you know, he's the guy 503 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 3: who provided me with the tape recording of Sandy's perfect 504 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 3: game because he went out on a date with a 505 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 3: woman who became his first wife and the mother of 506 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 3: his daughter named Sandy. Because he asked his father to 507 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: tape recorded on an old real reel because he couldn't 508 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 3: miss a Gofeks game. Obviously a California kid. So you know, 509 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 3: when you have people like that saying I've had it, 510 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: that's scary to me. And I think baseball needs to 511 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 3: do everything it can to create a new generation of fans. 512 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 3: And I think it. You know, it's probably the suggestion 513 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 3: that owners will hate the most is let all kids 514 00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 3: aged ten and under in free. There are swaths upper 515 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 3: decks and lower decks, even of empty seats at every 516 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 3: Major League game. Major League has an inventory of games 517 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 3: and seats that frankly is more than they can sell. 518 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 3: So let some kids in. Let them in. My buddy, 519 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 3: Michael Halpert is the economist at University of Wisconsin lacrosse. 520 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: Brilliant guy and also a lovely guy, did some math 521 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 3: for me. I said, what would it cost to do that? 522 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 3: Like it? Did? You know, for a season, And so 523 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 3: he took numbers from the Cubs what they charged. This 524 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 3: is twenty twenty three numbers. What they charged for the 525 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 3: smallest hot dog, the smallest soda. I think a cotton 526 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 3: candy and a cap if and he didn't used ten, 527 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 3: ten and under, he used twelve and under. If you 528 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 3: did that, if the Cubs had done that in twenty 529 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 3: twenty three, it would have cost them ready four million dollars. 530 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 3: That is chumped even for Bob Nutting and the Pirates. 531 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 3: It's chump change. And think what it would buy you. 532 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 3: And he said, by the way, that was the year 533 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 3: the Cubs paid Jason Hayward's twenty one million dollars to 534 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 3: play for the Dodgers. So this is affordable. Think what 535 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 3: a pr who it would be if one day Major 536 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 3: League Baseball came out and said, you know what, we've 537 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 3: thought about it. We've run the numbers, or Jane Rode 538 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 3: run the numbers, Mike ran the numbers, and we're serious. 539 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: We want kids back in the ballpark. And so ten 540 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 3: years old and younger year in free. I'm not giving 541 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 3: you the three hundred dollars seats behind home Blake, true, 542 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 3: but come to the ballpark. We want you there. Well, Jane, 543 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 3: that would be such a pr who. 544 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 4: Right, And as as the dad of a two year old, Now, 545 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 4: I don't have quite kids who can be running around 546 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 4: on their own. But like, if you are telling me, 547 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 4: let's bring the kids in for free, and I'm a 548 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 4: family of three, then you've got two adult paying tickets, right, 549 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 4: You've got food and drinks for everybody. I already when 550 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 4: I see a Bogo deal, I'm probably not buying it. 551 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 4: If there's not a Bogo deal. But then the point 552 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 4: of a sale, the point of the buy one, get one, 553 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 4: is to get you in the door in the first place. 554 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 4: So you're study, yes, four million dollars, but as you said, 555 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 4: you're making hundreds of thousands of little fans happy that 556 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 4: will remember that day and want to come back when 557 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 4: they're older and older and bring their kids there, making 558 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 4: those memories. And then you've got their paying adult parents 559 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 4: who are going there and ordering beers that are you know, 560 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 4: fifteen dollars I was gonna say, eight, right, eighteen dollars 561 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 4: probably and getting the swag for their kids and buying 562 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 4: the garb at that's. 563 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 2: Not included in that ticket for the kid. 564 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 4: It really the numbers to study the effect of what 565 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 4: that would do you can't really assess that because it. 566 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 2: Would be massive. 567 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 4: It could be huge when it comes to the paying 568 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 4: adults and the swag and the life time fans. 569 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 2: I mean it could be massive, all right. 570 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: When I told Rizzo this, this before he got sacrificed 571 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 3: on the altar of the Learner family, did I really 572 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 3: say that? I think, uh, And I said it. I 573 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 3: told him this. He goes, yeah, fill it up. We 574 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 3: got to fill it up. But no alcohol or parking, right, 575 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 3: I guess, okay, okay, no alcohol or parking. We're not 576 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 3: giving We're not giving eighteen dollars beers to ten year olds. 577 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: No, right, good idea? You had you met Bill James before? 578 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: And what was it like doing talking to Bill James 579 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: about this book? 580 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 3: I met Bill in Provincetown, Massachusetts, when he came to 581 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 3: address a group called Twins. Why it's called twenty Summers, Well, 582 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 3: I think I know, but I don't want to say 583 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 3: it because I might just be really wrong. It's an 584 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: old barn that was used for the Provincetown School of Painting, 585 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 3: I believe, way back and maybe it was twenty Summers 586 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 3: that it was used for the painting. And now they 587 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 3: hold all sorts of interesting conferences and speeches and music 588 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And he came to that at 589 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 3: the invitation of Dan Oakrind, who is a resident of Wellfleet, Massachusetts, 590 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 3: town next to mine. And so I went, and I 591 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 3: first was introduced to build by Dan, who of course 592 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 3: is to blame for everything. I guess I ought to 593 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 3: explain that, or would you like to explain that? 594 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: Now you should explain it so Jeffrey can understand he's 595 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: too young. 596 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: Okay, Jeffrey, that you're not in contorting. But so Dan 597 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 3: Oakeren is the man who created Rotisserie League Baseball, and 598 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 3: which grew in enormous popularity almost immediately, I like to say, 599 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 3: because it gave short Jewish guys an opportunity to believe 600 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 3: that they could do better than the schmuck who traded 601 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 3: Nolan Ryan for Jim Fiosi and maybe just short guys everywhere, 602 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 3: not just Jewish gist, but anyway, and it became as 603 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 3: you know this, you know, mega industry. He never made 604 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 3: a dime from it. But what it also did was 605 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 3: it it created a generation of general managers and assistant 606 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 3: general managers, all of whom grew up playing fantasy sports. 607 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 3: Because the basic methodology in the you know, Rotisseriy league 608 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 3: was that you assign a dollar value to each player. 609 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 3: The human person becomes worth a certain amount, and you 610 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 3: can say, well, for example, I don't really need a 611 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 3: catcher who has eighty RBI. I could have two catchers 612 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,720 Speaker 3: with forty RBI and you're calculating how best to spend 613 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 3: your money. The big difference between Rotisseriy and the real 614 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 3: thing is that in Rotissary every owner gets the same 615 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 3: amount of money, so it's a fair fight. But today's 616 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 3: general managers grew up on those kind of games, and 617 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 3: they you know what. I called Tom Tango at Major 618 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 3: League baseballgue and he was the first guy, and I 619 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 3: said what happened? And he said, do you know Dan Oprint? 620 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 3: And I said, as a matter of fact, I do. 621 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 3: I happen to know he makes the best Martinez on 622 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 3: the out of day. And anyway, this is not Bill James. 623 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,399 Speaker 3: So and Dan of course is also to blame, as 624 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 3: he reminded me just the other day, not just for 625 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 3: creating rot hisstory, but for introducing the world to Bill 626 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 3: James because of the PC wrote on him in nineteen 627 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 3: eighty one, which was initially rejected by Sports Illustrated and 628 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 3: then was printed a year later. So one man don't 629 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 3: think you can't make a difference in the world, and 630 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,919 Speaker 3: Ogrin is to blame. And so I started calling back 631 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 3: and forth with Bill, and much to my shock, when 632 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 3: I invited him to come to a Savannah Bananas game 633 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 3: with me in twenty beginning of May twenty twenty two 634 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 3: in Kansas City. He and his I don't mean this 635 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 3: to sound the way it does. His lovely wife, his 636 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 3: truly lovely wife, Susie, came and sat with me at 637 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 3: the game, and Bill liked it. Bill had fun. You know, 638 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 3: I have a picture of him almost smiling. And we 639 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 3: kept in touch ever since. And you know, went to 640 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 3: the MIT Sloan School event Sloan School Sloan UH Sports 641 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 3: Analytics Conference in MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in two 642 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 3: thousand and three, which Morgan Sword attended, and they were 643 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 3: giving the first numbers and the first peek at what 644 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 3: the pitch clock was doing. And it proved to be 645 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 3: completely prophetic, the amount of time they would save on 646 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 3: a game, and that they were there really wasn't much 647 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 3: of a problem getting used to it, and Bill at 648 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 3: that conference made the very smart point that first of all, 649 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 3: he said that there was always a rule that you 650 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 3: the umpires could enough enough, come on, get your ass 651 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 3: back in the in gear, but nobody enforced it. But 652 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 3: his point was that before lights came to baseball, the 653 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 3: sun was the pitch clock. You know, the sun was 654 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 3: going down and you didn't want to get hit with 655 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 3: one of those old dead baseballs, did you? And mudball, 656 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 3: So there was always an imperative to move a game along, 657 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 3: and umpires had an authority that they exercised until they 658 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 3: didn't until suddenly baseball became the game where every hitter 659 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,919 Speaker 3: could stop the game, get out of the box and 660 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 3: think between pitches. There's no other sport we were allowed 661 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 3: to just say time out, I have to go center 662 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 3: myself again. And you know, Joe Madden said we were 663 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 3: to blame for that. You know all this you know 664 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 3: psychology of you know, ready thing through what you're going 665 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 3: to do, have a plan, think about your inner you know, 666 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 3: shrink You know that that contributed to the lais a 667 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 3: fair at bats also, so the pitch clock was absolutely 668 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 3: necessary and obviously it's worked like a charm. I do 669 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:22,720 Speaker 3: hate the ghost runner. 670 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: Well that makes two of us, Jane, and I'm sorry 671 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: I will never enjoy the ghost Runner. All right, next 672 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: topic is a big one, and we got to start 673 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: wrapping this up. Jane. You're doing so well here. 674 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 3: But no, I want to keep going. 675 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: African American players. You write about this, This is a 676 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, in the seventies, Jeff, twenty seven percent of 677 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: the players were African American players, roughly that. 678 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 3: And now it's all changed, Jane, what. 679 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 2: Are we going to do about that? 680 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:56,320 Speaker 3: Well, to Manford's credit and Tony Reagan's credit, is Tony 681 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 3: Reagan's job to fix this. They have taken some significant 682 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 3: steps in the right direction, including dirting the old Moldy 683 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 3: Decrepit Dodger down into the Jackie Robinson Training Complex. The 684 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 3: problem is that the heyday, when you had Doc and 685 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 3: you had Tim Rains and you had Ricky and all 686 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:26,720 Speaker 3: these American born black players enlivening baseball with their speed 687 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 3: and their daring and their personality and I don't mean 688 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 3: just as human beings, but personality as players disintegrated. It 689 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 3: went from I love hyperbole, Tim, but it was actually close. 690 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 3: The high was close to twenty percent, and it's now 691 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 3: close to it's six percent, And despite all the efforts 692 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 3: they've made in the last couple of years and the 693 00:44:54,920 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 3: enthusiasm that came to fruition in twenty twenty two for 694 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 3: the first draft picks were African American, it's stalled. It's 695 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 3: despite all of it. It increased point three percent this year, 696 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 3: so it's obviously not enough, just like the attempts to 697 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 3: deal with Tommy John is not enough. My completely, I've 698 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 3: been told I'm an idiot and pie in the sky 699 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 3: and stuff. I hate the gambling, okay, And this is 700 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 3: coming from a woman whose grandfather I never met him, 701 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 3: but God bless him. He was a bookie and a 702 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 3: room runner and a supplied booze and bets to the 703 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 3: polo grounds. And my dad got to be water boy 704 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,359 Speaker 3: for the New York Football Giants as a consequence. So 705 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 3: I don't have a moralistic problem with it, but I 706 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 3: think that it's really wrong for baseball. You can't sell 707 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 3: yourself for one hundred years as the game that opposes it. 708 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,319 Speaker 3: It took this moral stance that corrected the evil in 709 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 3: nineteen nineteen and said Pete Rose wasn't getting in no 710 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 3: matter what, and then turn on a dime because of 711 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 3: the money. Now, I understand the twenty eighteen Supreme Court 712 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 3: decision legalizing sports betting made this irrefutable, but that doesn't 713 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 3: mean that they have to use all the money as 714 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 3: just profit. My proposal is that they take the money 715 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 3: and create Major League Baseball academies in every Major League 716 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 3: city to give inner city American kids, black, Hispanic, white, 717 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 3: whoever they may be a chance to learn the game 718 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 3: as it with as many facilities and expertise as the 719 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 3: kids in the Dominican Republic are. And so put the 720 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 3: you know, take the make it into a silk purse, 721 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 3: is what I'm saying, because we need to show African 722 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 3: American kids we mean it, we want you. So having 723 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 3: with Jackie Robinson Day, you know, every day every year 724 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 3: on April fifteenth is nice, but you know, what's it 725 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 3: getting done. My buddy Might Helper did a calculation for me. 726 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 3: I asked him, if we continue to lose Black American 727 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 3: players at the rate we are now, at what point 728 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 3: on April fifteenth will we be able to celebrate the 729 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 3: first Black American player in baseball and the last And 730 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 3: the answer is two thousand and seventy nine. 731 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,000 Speaker 2: Wow, I mean to put a number to it now. Jane. 732 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 4: I don't know if you thought about this, but if 733 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 4: we let these kids in to the game for free, 734 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 4: they will learn to love. 735 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,399 Speaker 2: Oh wait, we talked about that right, right right? 736 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 4: Not a bad idea because then, I mean, at least 737 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:56,839 Speaker 4: for me, you fall in love with the game because 738 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,399 Speaker 4: you see players playing the game. 739 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 2: You go, you smell, well, you open up. 740 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,600 Speaker 4: I'll never forget the first time ever walking through the 741 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 4: tunnel at Cambin Yards and having the stadium open up 742 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 4: to me. Right, same with Fenway Park. Those kind of things, 743 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 4: they just stick in your mind forever. Jane, I can't 744 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 4: thank you enough for your time. Make me commissioner. I 745 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 4: know what's wrong with baseball on how to fix it 746 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 4: is now available everywhere, and everybody needs to take some 747 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 4: time because the number one thing with this book is 748 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 4: it's coming from someone who loves this game. 749 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 2: That's the number one thing. 750 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 3: No, it's not a screed. I know that probably there 751 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 3: are people who haven't read it, who, based on just 752 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 3: a title, think so it's a love story. 753 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,320 Speaker 1: Hi, Jane, I'm going to ask you one more question, 754 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 1: which might take twenty minutes to finish. But I was 755 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,879 Speaker 1: in the sixth grade when miss Thiebert said to us 756 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: at one thirty in the afternoon in nineteen sixty seven, 757 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: put your pens and paper down. We're gonna watch a 758 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: World Series game in the sixth grade on a tiny 759 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: little TV. Now, this would have been done at my 760 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: house every day, because that's the house I grew up in. 761 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: The primary language in our house, my entire life was baseball. 762 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,720 Speaker 1: When you talk about getting more kids involved, this is obvious. 763 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,720 Speaker 3: But we need more day games. 764 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 1: Do we not, not just not just on the weekends, 765 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:31,040 Speaker 1: but in the postseason? Is this obvious to me? You everyone? 766 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely? I mean I think I say somewhere in this book, 767 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,839 Speaker 3: which I stupidly forgot to put an index in so 768 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 3: I can't quote myself. They've done a good job, you know, 769 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 3: changing getaway day games to usually Wednesday getaway games two afternoons. 770 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 3: In my MLB, there will be only day games on 771 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:03,319 Speaker 3: weekends for four premiere games that they can put on 772 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 3: whatever platforms they want on Friday and Sunday, agreed, right, 773 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 3: and playoff games, you know, And I again, I understand 774 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,839 Speaker 3: the realities of the commercials and what an ad is worth. 775 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,400 Speaker 3: At one pm as opposed to four pm as opposed 776 00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:26,719 Speaker 3: to eight pm. But it's shortsighted if you just go 777 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,319 Speaker 3: for the dollars, you know, every time, if everything, every 778 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:35,080 Speaker 3: decision is based on monetizing the moment and not looking 779 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 3: further into saying, don't you want a kid to be 780 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 3: able to see a whole playoff game? Right? I mean, 781 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,640 Speaker 3: there has to be some adjustment. I think there should 782 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 3: be an adjustment in the way of advertising in regular 783 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 3: season games. I'm for taking it back to ninety seconds 784 00:50:55,080 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 3: between half innings and having a hockey style inter mission 785 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 3: between the third and the fourth and the sixth and 786 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 3: the seventh. You know, why not. You can do all 787 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 3: the advertising you want there, you know, and and shortening 788 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 3: up the game even more. You might not even need 789 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 3: a pitchclock after a while. But yes, I agree with you, 790 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:22,840 Speaker 3: completely timed. There have to be some There has to 791 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,920 Speaker 3: be some recognition that this isn't you know, this is 792 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:35,319 Speaker 3: pound foolish, petty smart, pound foolish. And can you stay 793 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 3: up for all those games? I can't. 794 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 2: I can't. 795 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,799 Speaker 1: Jeffrey did not watch a full playoff game until he 796 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 1: went to college. I'm sure about that, and that's just 797 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,359 Speaker 1: that's just not right. And yes, I could stay up 798 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 1: because I have to stay up, but I would anyway 799 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 1: because it's the only thing in the world I know 800 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,440 Speaker 1: and really like about it. 801 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 2: So all right, I've got to I've got a two 802 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 2: year old at home. Jane. I'm thirty two. I'm not 803 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:01,200 Speaker 2: staying up. 804 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,839 Speaker 4: I can't even tell you the last time I saw 805 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,840 Speaker 4: four digits on a clock in the PM. 806 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 2: It just doesn't happen for me and Jeff. 807 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 4: I'm asleep before ten and I'm up at you know, 808 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,799 Speaker 4: whenever my daughter wakes up on the weekends, and I'm 809 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,839 Speaker 4: up at three thirty for work on the weekdays. 810 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 2: It's just not the same for me. 811 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,040 Speaker 1: Jane, thanks again for everything today and the one thing 812 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,240 Speaker 1: we cleared up for anyone who was confused. You're not angry. 813 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,920 Speaker 1: This is a love story and that's what should keep 814 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,160 Speaker 1: us all going here. 815 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:29,959 Speaker 2: We will see you soon, and. 816 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,440 Speaker 1: Maybe you say any Kofax and I will go to 817 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,600 Speaker 1: a game together and we'll take Joe Torri with us. 818 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:37,719 Speaker 1: How cool would that be? 819 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:39,680 Speaker 3: Can Jeff come? 820 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: Yes, Jeff's always coming yus. 821 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 2: I would love to be there. That would be a 822 00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 2: dream come