1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: M M. Yeah, that was terrible. Now, yeah, Sylvie, how

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,479
Speaker 1: do I how do I podcast? Uh? Hi, I'm Robert Evans.

3
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 1: Then you're listening Behind the Bastard, the Boston podcast about

4
00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: the work people from history and today. Uh, that doesn't

5
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: sound like something i'd say, my guess. But also host

6
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:29,639
Speaker 1: slash coup slash Garrison. Hi, it's me again on the podcast.

7
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 1: It's another coup episode. Garrison's helping me out because I

8
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: have once again taken on enough projects that I'm I'm

9
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,480
Speaker 1: terrified about my life. Um so yeah, we're we're doing

10
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: another coup episode in honor of Trump's coup. In honor

11
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 1: of Trump's coup. That's exactly what's amazing. Ago We keep

12
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 1: recording these, and coups are still relevant each time we record. O.

13
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 1: Cous are always relevant because never didn't you say Trump's

14
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 1: is not technically a cup because no military? Yeah, I

15
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,120
Speaker 1: mean so far, yes, but I do think we're splitting

16
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 1: hairs a little bit. But either way, I love a

17
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 1: good coup. Um, so we're gonna have us. We're gonna

18
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: have us another pod coups podcast, Coup Cast and Robert,

19
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,200
Speaker 1: how do you feel about Nazis? Uh lukewarm. How do

20
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 1: you feel about child Nazis? Also lukewarm? Okay, because we're

21
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: gonna be talking about child Nazis. Oh man, I I was,

22
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: I was holding back a little bit. My favorite kind

23
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,039
Speaker 1: of nazis your child not I mean, if they're if

24
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 1: we're going to have them, which we should, but if

25
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: we are, if they're a little, if they're a little

26
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 1: baby teenagers, baby teenage Nazis, and it is kind of

27
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: the funniest cute well like your Garrison brought over his

28
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 1: little baby kitten and it's very cute, and I'm imagining

29
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,039
Speaker 1: the kitten with a swastick. It's like a little arm

30
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 1: ball Nazi kitten. So to be so terriful, I know,

31
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm irony poison. I did not like that. But more more,

32
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 1: are we talking like Jojo Rabbit, Like, what's the situation

33
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 1: here for kind of kid? No? Okay, So today we're

34
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna dive into one of the things that

35
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 1: got younger Garrison to actually start to realize that fascism

36
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,800
Speaker 1: is like an ongoing and active problem and way more

37
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: complicated than just weird people hating Jewish people. Um and uh,

38
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: We're we're gonna be learning about and the thing that

39
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 1: that I learned about a few years ago that you know,

40
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,639
Speaker 1: got me, you know, to learn more about fascism and

41
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: kind of got me interested in the topic. UM is

42
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,639
Speaker 1: the accidental five day social experiment done on a group

43
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: of teenagers in a California high school. Uh In. This

44
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: experiment is referred to as the Third Wave. Some people

45
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 1: may be familiar with this UM. If you're from Germany,

46
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,480
Speaker 1: you are because they forced you to learn about it.

47
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 1: UM what with the dubious ethics aside? Looking at how

48
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,799
Speaker 1: a charismatic high school teacher got a small group of

49
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,399
Speaker 1: impressionable teenagers in the sixties to grow into a group

50
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 1: of dedicated of two hundred like dedicated fascists the course

51
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,960
Speaker 1: of just five days. Something we can is something we

52
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,960
Speaker 1: can learn from, and you know, it's like still is

53
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 1: still relevant even though this was an experiment done in

54
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 1: the sixties. I mean it sounds like, first off, this

55
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 1: is an incredibly a story of an incredibly ethical teacher. Yeah,

56
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,480
Speaker 1: nothing wrong. Yeah, like That's why I started this by

57
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 1: saying ethics aside, because yeah, it kind of messed up

58
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 1: a lot of kids. Sounds really fucked up. Some people

59
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,920
Speaker 1: didn't he a lot of Yeah. Like one of the

60
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,960
Speaker 1: people that um, the high school teacher became friends with

61
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 1: is um Philip Zimbardwe Zimbardo, Zimbardo Zimbardo. He's the of

62
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,160
Speaker 1: the standard experiment a few years later. So yeah, they're

63
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: buddies because they boasted highly on ethical experiments. Yeah. Yeah,

64
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: Philip Zimbardo is my favorite psychologist because he decided long

65
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,200
Speaker 1: ago that it was way more valuable to do things

66
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 1: that were interesting rather than things that were morally defensible.

67
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's beautiful. Yeah, and I mean yeah,

68
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the same thing kind of kind of happened here. Um,

69
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: all right, well let's let's start this motherfucker garrison. You

70
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: know when you do giant pores of liquid that it

71
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 1: does show up. Yeah, Well, the audience wants me to

72
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 1: have coffee, Sophie. I mean, I want you to coffee,

73
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: because without coffee, you're just Evans, not Robert. I'm a

74
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: Nazi Evans. Yea. Yeah. As soon as as soon as

75
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 1: I get coffee in the morning, I stop understanding the

76
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,200
Speaker 1: benefits of national socialism. That's that's the thing that really

77
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: gets to have the academic understand the best part of

78
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:32,160
Speaker 1: waking up is no longer believing that Nazism is morally defensible. Yeay, well,

79
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 1: I mean we're gonna be learning a lot about that today,

80
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 1: which is great. Speaking of Nazism, Yeah, when when when

81
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 1: people first learn about like the rise of fascism and

82
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 1: particularly the Nazis. Um. Usually one of the first questions

83
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 1: I hear people you know talk about and ask is like,

84
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,479
Speaker 1: how could everyday Germans been so complicit? Why why did

85
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,279
Speaker 1: so many people just like let things happen? Um? And

86
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:57,920
Speaker 1: then you know, when you're learning about stuff, at least

87
00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: when I did, you know, the thought in your mind

88
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 1: is like, oh, surely I would have done something to

89
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,160
Speaker 1: stop this from happening. Um. But I mean, if we

90
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 1: look at the last American election, it's pretty clear that

91
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people, if not the majority, like, would

92
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 1: not take direct action against a rising fascist power in

93
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,360
Speaker 1: this country. Um let alone, Let let it in other countries.

94
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 1: I have a feeling, yeah, I have I have an inkling. Um.

95
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,000
Speaker 1: But with with that in mind, let's look back to

96
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: the late nineteen sixties and the high school classroom of

97
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 1: one Ron Jones and how he quite by accident, made

98
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,919
Speaker 1: two hundred child fascists. Um. First, a little background on

99
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 1: Jones himself, since usually different types of fascism have unique

100
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 1: elements drawn from their central leader. Um Ron Jones started

101
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 1: teaching in nineteen sixty six, having recently graduated from Stanford

102
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 1: University UM. He became a high school teacher in Couverly

103
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 1: High School is right outside of San Francisco. Um Jones

104
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 1: quickly became the favorite teacher due to his unique and

105
00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 1: unconventional teaching style. He was young, very charismatic, and attractive

106
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,839
Speaker 1: of um Jones did not just follow regular curriculums and

107
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 1: just give lectures. He would he would often bring in guests.

108
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 1: UM students recall him bringing in communists, klansmen, members of

109
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 1: the American Nazi Party. Had he actually got on the

110
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 1: phone with with them? With Chairman now in his class,

111
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,360
Speaker 1: how did he get on the phone with Could you

112
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,039
Speaker 1: just call chairman mau Did he just have like, I'm

113
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,359
Speaker 1: not sure that it seems like it would be a

114
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: lot of work to get Chairman Aericans also got all

115
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 1: these are great ideas, Like I don't think bringing a

116
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 1: klansman into your classes, bringing a klansman or a Nazi

117
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 1: and dear, I'm not seeing your class. I do think

118
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 1: even I'm not as a rule, if you can get

119
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: a world leader on the phone in your high school class,

120
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 1: that's yes, kind of cool. But yeah, but like he

121
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 1: run another like other like you know, Soviet Union stands

122
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 1: from like from America. Yeah, I'm more fascinated by how

123
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 1: the hell he got Chairman Mau on the phone. He

124
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 1: just says he did. I cannot find any explanation. How

125
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: see that. I feel like that it's a whole episode,

126
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 1: like how do you Okay, Well, I'm very frustrated by

127
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 1: this man because I want to know how he got

128
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,680
Speaker 1: Chairman chair him out on the phone for his class. Yeah, um, yeah,

129
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 1: I mean he was he was very He followed lots

130
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: of unconventional teaching, um, you know with with the guests.

131
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 1: He would do like historical like simulations in his class,

132
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 1: like trying to replicate historical events as we see here,

133
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, with the Nazi thing. Um. A quote, a

134
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 1: quote from Jones is if if you can feel something

135
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: and work with it, that's better than just reading about it.

136
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 1: So he likes a lot of like, Okay, he likes

137
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 1: a lot of learning. That's not that's not you know,

138
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: just reading in a book. He actually don't get people

139
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 1: to feel stuff, which I mean successful on the Nazi experiment,

140
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 1: he messed up a lot of kids. Yeah, I mean,

141
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 1: I I agree with the basics of what he's saying,

142
00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: which is that kids learn everyone learns best by doing,

143
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: and if you can give people some sort of direct

144
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 1: experience with the things that are learning about, that's good. Now,

145
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 1: the problem him as that he's teaching them about Nazism,

146
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,840
Speaker 1: and I don't know of many ethical ways to give

147
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,880
Speaker 1: people experiences with Nazism. It's it's kind of a bad idea. Yeah,

148
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,800
Speaker 1: it seems like and Jones probably should have known better because, um,

149
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,200
Speaker 1: he was a left wing activist back in the sixties

150
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 1: and you know still is now. Um, he was a

151
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,440
Speaker 1: member of the New Left Students for Democratic Society, saying

152
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 1: back in the sixties he was in lots of people

153
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,160
Speaker 1: recall him being a very very supportive of the of

154
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: the Black Panthers and was and participated a lot in

155
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: the anti war movement in the sixties with venom going on.

156
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,880
Speaker 1: So like, he showed it kind of known better, But

157
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,800
Speaker 1: I think his intentions were good. But it's very quickly

158
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 1: spiraled out of control with this um. But basically he

159
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: was basically just the cool, new hip teacher, and students

160
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 1: really really did trust him, and lots of students really

161
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: did UM really did like him. UM. So at the

162
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,800
Speaker 1: like the last quarter of his first year of teaching UM,

163
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 1: in a twenty five student sophomore world history class, Jones

164
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: was talking about Nazi Germany. UM. He was They were

165
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 1: coming to the end of their kind of history section

166
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,679
Speaker 1: on the Nazis UM and a student UM asked the

167
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 1: question that most of us do at some point, which is,

168
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, how could every German has been complicit? Why

169
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,040
Speaker 1: did people do let things happen? UM, And Jones says

170
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 1: he didn't really have a good answer, so he thought

171
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,840
Speaker 1: up a short experiment. UM. Now here. This is where

172
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,920
Speaker 1: kind of learning about the wave gets a little bit tricky.

173
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 1: There is a lot of you can when you're trying

174
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 1: to research this, there's kind of different accounts of what

175
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 1: happened because no one really, UM was able to you know,

176
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 1: document this as it was happening. Because the people that

177
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 1: did all got beat up by the fascists of who

178
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 1: are trying to you know, the people who were raced

179
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 1: aft down all got kind of beat up. UM. And

180
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that actually Jones tried this experiment in

181
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: three classes at the same time. But usually when people

182
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: talk about the wave, they focus on like the one

183
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 1: first class UM, but there can be a lot of

184
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,200
Speaker 1: conflicting information when you talk to like students of this,

185
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 1: So we're going to kind of treat it as just

186
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 1: focusing on this one class. But there may have been

187
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: two other classes doing this experiment um concurrently, but it's

188
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,560
Speaker 1: kind of unclear. So they were learning about nazis um.

189
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 1: Students asked how the goodness happened. Jones didn't know. He

190
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 1: thought of the experiment the next week, so like the

191
00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 1: Monday after because this experiment ran five days. When students

192
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,719
Speaker 1: came into the class um on this Monday, Jones had

193
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 1: set up all the chairs and five by five rows,

194
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 1: which is weird for Jones because he usually had a

195
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 1: very loose set up because you know, he was like

196
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 1: the new hip teacher who had you know, students in

197
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: his circle or had people on the floor or whatever.

198
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 1: But it's like coming into his class and seeing like

199
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 1: five like five rows of chairs was kind of weird.

200
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,720
Speaker 1: UM music by Richard Wagner was playing uh German composer

201
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 1: Wagner Garrison. It's important to pronounce things correct. Wagner, It's

202
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 1: w Richard Wagner's of students were ordered to all sit

203
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 1: in perfect posture with their hands hands hands by other

204
00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,839
Speaker 1: side and on the chalkboard. Jones wrote, strength through discipline.

205
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,360
Speaker 1: So we can kind of see where this is going

206
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: to be going. Yeah, he began to lecture the class

207
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 1: on the values of strict discipline. Um speaking on the

208
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,720
Speaker 1: efficiency of of like a resimated system, um to quote

209
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,720
Speaker 1: to quote, Jones I lectured on the beauty discipline how

210
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,960
Speaker 1: an athlete feels, How an athlete feels having worked hard

211
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 1: and regularly successful out of sport. How about how a

212
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,080
Speaker 1: ballet dancer or a painter works hard to perfect a movement,

213
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 1: the dedicated patients of a scientist to pursue an idea.

214
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,040
Speaker 1: It's discipline, It's self training, control the power of will

215
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,319
Speaker 1: in exchange for physical hardships, for superior mental and physical facilities,

216
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 1: the ultimate triumph. Now, this all the text time quoting

217
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,440
Speaker 1: Jones from has written from him himself, So all typos

218
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 1: are his fault umberously fair enough, it's not my fault.

219
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: He wrote this actually fixed some types. Don't blame me,

220
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 1: blame the teacher who made the Nazis. Um pretty good,

221
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 1: pretty good summary of Nazism without using any of the

222
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: nazi is his Nazi terms like yeah, the strike three discipline,

223
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 1: stuff like that's that's very much like a lot of

224
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,760
Speaker 1: Hitler Jugen like ship. Jones was very familiar with fascism

225
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 1: as as we see, like he'll be talking, you know,

226
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 1: he'll have sections later on when he take talks about fascism,

227
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, he understands, he understands what it is

228
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: like very well. Um, so what Jones was doing on

229
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,319
Speaker 1: the first day, he basically he changed his personality too.

230
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 1: He made him to get He was way more open, playful.

231
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, Robert, look at my cat. Oh no,

232
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 1: uh the cat now has a Nazi bandez band on

233
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 1: my cat tied around its tour So so it's now

234
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 1: a Nazi cat. How someone who someone who was in

235
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: my mysteriously has given my my cat anaz which you

236
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 1: mean my cat's name is My cat's name is chairman maow.

237
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,599
Speaker 1: And now it's moved to a different type of authoritarianism. Yeah,

238
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,280
Speaker 1: it's either way. It's the responsible of deaths. Well, now

239
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,319
Speaker 1: it's a very cute little Nazi cat. God we would

240
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: post pictures of this online, but we should not. Nope,

241
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 1: don't do it. But not gonna happen. This is really

242
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,079
Speaker 1: great audio content, y'all. People are really going to enjoy

243
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,360
Speaker 1: this audio content. That there is now a Nazi cat

244
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 1: in in the house walking with the leash, walking with

245
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 1: a leash. It is a very cute kitten, Like, oh

246
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: my god, this little kitten, y'all, you gotta you should

247
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,839
Speaker 1: see this kitten, I mean not you can see the

248
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 1: kitten on my Twitter not wearing a Nazi not wearing Um,

249
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 1: I'll take that. I'll take that off. That's so cute. Though, again,

250
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,800
Speaker 1: this is very good audio content. Doesn't know that it's

251
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: wearing it doesn't know it's tied to millions of deaths. Millions. Yeah,

252
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 1: hello body, No, it's just chilling out now now, it's

253
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:52,080
Speaker 1: just chilling the swastika. That's healthy. Yeah, okay, sorry Garrison.

254
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 1: Um yeah, So basically, Jones adopted a very strict personality. Um.

255
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 1: He told the class to only address him as Mr.

256
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,680
Speaker 1: Jones as opposed to Ron as I usually call him. Um.

257
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,559
Speaker 1: They were. He made rules about how many words you

258
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 1: could use to answer like verbal questions. Um. He said

259
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,640
Speaker 1: that students should arrive five minutes before class, um, and

260
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 1: wait in seated position. You know. In this like he

261
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 1: he he talked a lot about like posture and how

262
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 1: better posture leads to better learning, which is you know, dubious,

263
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 1: but he like he knows that he was just you know,

264
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 1: trying to make this like disciplined environment. Um he uh.

265
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 1: Her Jones had his students line up outside the class

266
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 1: and have them enter the class to get into perfect

267
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 1: seating position. And they like drilled this over and over

268
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 1: and over again with it with a timer, you know,

269
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 1: having everyone go outside and everyone you know come back

270
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 1: inside and trying to get into perfect seated position, you know,

271
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,240
Speaker 1: very quickly. Um. They drilled this until everyone was perfectly

272
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 1: in sync and got in and sitting under five seconds. UM.

273
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 1: So like he you know, he was trying to introduce

274
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: this kind of this the rules of discipline and listening

275
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: to authority and just doing things without really any reason

276
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 1: but just listening. And then you know, in this discipline

277
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: environment um. As all of Jones's experiments, grades were based

278
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 1: on participation. If you wanted to opt out, you could

279
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 1: just go to the library. Um. On the first day,

280
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 1: everyone participated very very willingly. Um. No one seems to

281
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,720
Speaker 1: make a connection to the German history classes that the

282
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: class had just completed. Um. The the idea was to

283
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,680
Speaker 1: give students a peak into what it was like to

284
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 1: be a regular German under the Nazis by turning the

285
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 1: world history class into just a one day fascist state. Um.

286
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 1: And that's and that's all it was. It was supposed

287
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,280
Speaker 1: to just be a one day simulation, and that that

288
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: was the next day. The plan was to have, um

289
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 1: just like a discussion over you know what the what

290
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 1: the experiment was. So that was that that was all

291
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 1: Jones wanted to do, which just this one day kind

292
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,119
Speaker 1: of experiment into getting used to an environment of discipline

293
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 1: and following a strict leader. That's kind of all it was. UM.

294
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 1: So not not super harmful like first day kind of

295
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: kind of all right, it's just a fun one day thing. Um.

296
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 1: But as Jones entered class the next day, all the

297
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: students were like waiting inside the class of five minutes early,

298
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 1: and they were all sitting in perfect posture inside all

299
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 1: of the rows in unison. They all chanted good morning,

300
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 1: Mr Jones. And Jones began to wonder how far he

301
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 1: could take this, and he walked over to the chalkboard

302
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 1: and wrote down strength through Community. So this is so

303
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 1: he saw everyone had Like he saw the students were

304
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 1: very like into this, and it's like, huh, I wonder,

305
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: I wonder how how much it could turn them into fascists.

306
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 1: And he just decided to do it. And it was

307
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 1: just like a spur of the moment decision because the

308
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 1: experiment was over. They're just like, huh, but if it

309
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,160
Speaker 1: isn't over, And I see this doesn't speak well for

310
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 1: him as a person, although I guess maybe it doesn't

311
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: speak well for anyone as a person, because maybe the

312
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: lesson here is that, um, that there's something intoxicating about

313
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 1: fascism that we can draw anybody in. Jones talks about

314
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 1: this later, how he actually got pulled into the experiment himself.

315
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: UM don't like that. Yeah, that's very Simbardo him, which

316
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: doesn't make it okay, which is why they're friends. Yeah,

317
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,440
Speaker 1: because they're both kind of not great people. Um. So

318
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 1: Jones wrote strength through Community UM on the track board.

319
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,680
Speaker 1: Next strength through discipline. UM. To quote quote Jones here,

320
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,879
Speaker 1: while the class sat in stern silence, I began to

321
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 1: talk lecture and ceremonized that's a weird word um about

322
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,800
Speaker 1: the value of community at this At this stage in

323
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,280
Speaker 1: the game, I was debating in my mind whether to

324
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,360
Speaker 1: stop the experiment or continue. I hadn't planned on such

325
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,000
Speaker 1: intensity or compliance. In fact, I was surprised to find

326
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 1: that that the ideas of discipline were enacted at all.

327
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: While debating whether to stop or go on with the experiment,

328
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,239
Speaker 1: I talked on and on about community. I made up

329
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: stories from my experiences as an athlete, a coach, and historian.

330
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 1: It was easy community being something bigger than oneself, something enjoyable.

331
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 1: They really bought onto that argument. So students were like Jones,

332
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: by all accounts, was a very good lecturer. Um. He

333
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 1: is very, very, very engaging, both when he was more

334
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: like relaxed and charismatic and both when he was, you know,

335
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: putting on this more strict dictatorial character. Um. Jones had

336
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 1: the class all chance together strength your discipline, strength through community,

337
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,640
Speaker 1: echoing between pairs of students, getting the whole class in unison,

338
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,360
Speaker 1: starting with one person and adding on another personage time,

339
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: just a whole much, you know, like community drills of

340
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 1: doing this, you know fashion chance, enjoy this at all

341
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: Garrison and it doesn't know where it's going and it's

342
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: just progressively getting sentence by sentence where it's it is

343
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 1: kind of predictable. Um, yeah, this might be I don't

344
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: want to be like radical here, but this might be

345
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,199
Speaker 1: why you shouldn't experiment on profressionable child. Yeah perhaps, I

346
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 1: mean I've carried out some experiments on a child and

347
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: it worked out pretty well. But it was a Garrison joke. Yeah,

348
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,400
Speaker 1: because I tear gas. I mean, look at look at

349
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 1: me now reading about fascism with my cat with the

350
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: slastika band. Yep, everything's going great plan from the start.

351
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 1: You know what won't convert a kitten to national socialism.

352
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: The fine folks who make those chips raytheon would never

353
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: do that. Uh, and neither will the other sponsors of

354
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 1: this podcast. And we're back, all right, Garrison. The Nazi

355
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 1: arm band is off the kitten. Now that's good. The

356
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: kitten has got it off himself. So's most podcasts don't

357
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: even radicalize the kitten. So we're really very productive today.

358
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 1: It's impossible to radicalize Anderson. No, Anderson is a committed

359
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 1: anti fascist. He stands fast in. She's a free thinker,

360
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of committed fascism. Um, So after all

361
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: of the chanting together in unison and stuff. Um, at

362
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: the end of the class, Jones made a terrible decision,

363
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: and that decision was to make a class members salute.

364
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 1: Someone really should have talked to him. People did. He

365
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 1: had like rabbis calling him throw this little experiment, and

366
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: Jones is like, no, don't worry, it's just an experiment.

367
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,360
Speaker 1: They're like, okay, yeah, I don't like this. It's not great. Um.

368
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,959
Speaker 1: So the salute here, um Jones made. Students were commanded

369
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,239
Speaker 1: to give each other both in and out of class, Like,

370
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: whatever two students met, they were supposed to salute each other. Um,

371
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: both in school out of school, um Jones. Jones called it.

372
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: And now the experiment was also called the third wave.

373
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: Now he claims the third wave is not a reference

374
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 1: to the third Reich. Um. He claims it has to

375
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 1: do with like waves and beaches and how like the

376
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: third wave is the strongest wave. But I don't I

377
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: don't really buy that because it also sounds too much

378
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: like a third position, Like there's a lot of there's

379
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: a lot of third actually things that involve a third Yeah,

380
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: whatever count to three? Never for fascists, two to four, right,

381
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: to four if you're going to count if you don't

382
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 1: want to, you know, enable nazism. Um to make the salute,

383
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 1: you brought up your right hand towards your right shoulder

384
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: in a curl position. Um. He called it the third

385
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 1: wave or you know, just the wave because the hand

386
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: resembled the wave over Like, I I do buy that

387
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: part for calling it the wave, but the third part,

388
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,719
Speaker 1: I mean it is just you know, that's just come on,

389
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: come on, come on, buddy. Um. But just like how

390
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: my cat removed its fascist arm band as McNown anti

391
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: Fascist Day two is where we also got to see

392
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: the start of an anti fascist resistance forming within the school.

393
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: It's like, the really cool thing about this experiment, even

394
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: though it's highly ethical, is that we've got a really

395
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: good microcosm of how fascism develops and how like anti

396
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 1: fascism develops beside it. By the end of the second day,

397
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: a student in the class got up and said, Mr Jones,

398
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: why can't we just say what we wanted to think?

399
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: Why can't we express our own opinions about what we

400
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: think about the third wave and the periment um? And

401
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: Jones very quickly said, you to the library for the

402
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: rest of the semester. So this is the first time

403
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: a student got banished from the class. I say first time,

404
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: it's not it's not the last time. This student went

405
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: to the library UM, and the librarian asked why why

406
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: the student wasn't in class. Based on what Jones had

407
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: told the students, the student thought that like the whole

408
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: staff was in on the experiment, which they were not. UM.

409
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: So the student was actually scared to tell the librarian

410
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: what happened and why she was there. UM. Now it

411
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: just so happened to be that the librarian was born

412
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: and raised to Nazi Germany. Uh so when this this

413
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: is actually good um. Like, when the student finally told

414
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: the librarian what happened, the librarian was very alarmed and

415
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: uh and very and very concerned. Um. The librarian told

416
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: the student that she has to do something to kind

417
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 1: of stop this um from you know, stop this from

418
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: spreading to other students. And the librarian thought this was

419
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: very dangerous. UM. So the student went home and talked

420
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: to their parents. But what they should do the first time.

421
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: Their first idea was to make posters. UM. So that night,

422
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: the students father drove her back to the school UM.

423
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: Because of how hot the area is around the school,

424
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: like the town. All of the hallways are technically outside

425
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: of the school, just with like a canopy. So the

426
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: student was able to plaster all of the walls with

427
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: anti third wave posters. UM. So they filled up the

428
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: school with like anti third wave posters. UM. The next morning,

429
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: within an hour of school starting, all the posters had

430
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: been torn down. UM. And you know there was the

431
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: students have admitted to like, you know, like we we

432
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: tore down the posters because they were anti third wave.

433
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: And then later later that night, it's like on day three,

434
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: so we're kind of keeping ahead for here for this UM.

435
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: The student returned with a ladder to put up the

436
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: posters up where they couldn't be torn down. UM. And

437
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: the student had titled their anti third wave resistance UM

438
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: the Breakers, which is again in another another wave reference

439
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: because the waves. Right, It's like it's all very silly,

440
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: like this student is traumatized. And you can hear the

441
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: student talk about this experiment later on, like they are

442
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: very clearly traumatized by this experience. UM. You love to

443
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: see it. Yeah. By day three, so this is this

444
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: is Wednesday. So yes, the first day was strngingth to discipline.

445
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: Second day was strength through community. Um. By day three,

446
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: the class had gained twenty extra students who are interested

447
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,239
Speaker 1: in participating in the experiment. That's not how classes are

448
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: supposed to work. Why was this allowed? It gives so

449
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: much worse. Eventually people from other schools join the class.

450
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: It's fad and no one's no one's The school administration

451
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: is just like, yeah, he's recreating our campus. Did it happen?

452
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: This is fine? So the class had gotten from It's

453
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: just like America. Yeah, I mean yes, yeah. So the

454
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: class had grown from students to about sixties students by

455
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: day three. It's not how schools are supposed to work.

456
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: It really isn't. When Jones went into class, the new

457
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: phrase he wrote in the track board was strength through action. UM.

458
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: So this this, this doesn't get any better. It doesn't

459
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: sound like it does. Garrison Jones announced that he was

460
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: issuing third wave membership cards, um, which were just were

461
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: just they were just index cards he found in his

462
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: desk because again he didn't plan this at all and

463
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: it was just kind of like going with it. So

464
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: he found these next cards and it's like, huh, I

465
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: should give the membership cards and it's like without a

466
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: second thought for how bad this is. Um So he

467
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: gave everyone third Wave membership cards UM to every student

468
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: who decided to continue the experiment. All students were still

469
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: continuing at this point, UM three cards Jones secretly marked

470
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: with a red X, which meant that these students were

471
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: informants and were instructed to tell Jones if any students

472
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: were not following the third Wave rules um or, as

473
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: a student referred to them as in a in a

474
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: document nary, the third Wave community values Jesus Christ. It's

475
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: really bad. It doesn't seem good. So like you know,

476
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: if if if students, if if like one of these

477
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: informants saw someone, you know, like not not salute them

478
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: in the hallway or you know, not to ext not

479
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: do why they were you know, they were supposed to

480
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: tell Jones um Es. Jones lectured the class on direct

481
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: action and in Jones's own words, how discipline and community

482
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: were meaningless without action, which is definitely not something Hitler

483
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: would say. He then gave the class different direct action assignments,

484
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: varying from passing out third Wave flyers and posters outreach

485
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: other students and other schools and setting up info tables

486
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: in the hallways. UM, it's sorry. I shouldn't be laughing,

487
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: but it is. It is kind of terrible to quote Jones.

488
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: To allow students to have the experience of direct action,

489
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: I gave each individual a special verbal assignment. Quote. It's

490
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: your task to design a third Wave banner. You are

491
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: responsible for stopping any student that's not a Third Way

492
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 1: member from entering the room. I want you to remember

493
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: and be able to recite tomorrow the names of each

494
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: member and addresses of each member. I want you to

495
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: this is good. You're a side of the problem of

496
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: training and training and convincing at least twenty children in

497
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: the adjacent elementary school that are sitting posture is necessary

498
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: for better learning. It's your job to read the pamphlet

499
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: and report on its entire content to the class tomorrow.

500
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: I want you to give me the name and address

501
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: of one reliable friend that you think will want to

502
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: join the Third Wave, etcetera, etcetera. BA see a list

503
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: of all these terrible things you got students to do. UM.

504
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: To conclude the session on direct action, I'm this is

505
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: still quoting Jones here. UM. I instructed students in a

506
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: simple procedure for initiating new members. It went like this,

507
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: a new member had to be only recommended by an

508
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: existing member and issued an I D Card by myself.

509
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: Upon receiving his card, he's now a new member and

510
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: had to demonstrate knowledge of our rules and pledge obedience

511
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: to them. My announcement unleashed a fervor. Is how he

512
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: ends that section when he talks about this UM. So

513
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: students were very into it UM because these are like

514
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: fifteen year olds in the sixties. UM, and we we're

515
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: gonna talk more about why the experiment worked at the

516
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: end and like why it works so well. But like

517
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, people people were very were people were very

518
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: into this UM. The result to this call to action

519
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: was recruiters at these infor tables were starting fistfights with

520
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: people who didn't want to join UM. And great, yeah,

521
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: there's like multiple just like brawls in the hallway over

522
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: people like not wanting to join the third wave. UM.

523
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: This is all making me wonder if maybe the original

524
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: Nazism was a social experiment that just got out of hand.

525
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: Hitler was like, I don't know, I guess I got

526
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: to invade a couple of country ship he just had to.

527
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: It was trying to keep up the act because everyone

528
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: is so involved. UM. Even though only three people got

529
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 1: the red X on their cards, way more than three

530
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: people were turning in names of people breaking the rules.

531
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: Jones recalls, though I formally appointed only three students to

532
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: report a bad behavior, approximately twenty students came to me

533
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: with reports about how Alan didn't salute, or Georgina wasn't

534
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: wasn't into the experiment and talking critically about it. This

535
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: instance of monitoring UH meant that half of the class

536
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: members now considered it their duty to report and observe

537
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: all other members of the class as a student. A

538
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: student recalls, you never know who's gonna come in the

539
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: next morning and turn you in. All lines of student

540
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: communication were broken down because of this fear. What a

541
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: good history class this was. But I find it really

542
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: fascinating how even though you know it was such you know,

543
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: the strength or community and whatever, how like they're all

544
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: at the all out of the actual community, all broke

545
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: down over fear of people turning each other in. UM,

546
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: which is, you know, very accurate to what actually happened

547
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: in Germany. UM sounds like a again, just a real

548
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: good high school history class. Uh. Trials were held for

549
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: members that were seen breaking rules. Yeah, that's because that's

550
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: what like I you know, I remember my favorite part

551
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: of high school was the trials that we would hold

552
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: for each other after informing on each other and oh,

553
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: I've got enough. Now the kitten, everybody for this great

554
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: audio content now has a little antipha band around its back.

555
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: So the kitten has been de radicalized and it now

556
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: shows the fervor of a convert in fighting. It's it's

557
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: old ideology. This has really been quite an arc for

558
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: a very like like what a four month old kitten

559
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: twelve weeks, twelve weeks, a little baby, very small. Oh

560
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: you're so good, very very happy. You're so good. Yeah.

561
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: So you didn't have trials in your high school because

562
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: again I was homeschooled, and we we we had some

563
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: show trials, you know, we we there were a couple

564
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: of executions. It was over it was over football. I

565
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: grew up in Texas, So okay, yeah that's the one

566
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: with the with the with the never mind Okay, um yeah.

567
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: Trials um uh. They were held for members scene breaking rules,

568
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: members that were just joking about the third Wave or

569
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: or being seen with quote known revolutionary Scott. Damn it,

570
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: that's a good, good work teaching teacher guy Ron Jones.

571
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: I can see again it makes so much sense that

572
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: Philip Simbardo likes this guy because they are both monsters

573
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: who view the brains of other human beings. Simbardo often

574
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: brings Jones into his class to teach. See. I love

575
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: Philip Simbardo because whenever he comes up in a story,

576
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: you know things are about to get interesting. He's that

577
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: kind of character. But also he shouldn't be allowed to teach.

578
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: He shouldn't. He shouldn't be allowed to do anything. He's

579
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: a terrible person. Now. Um so in these trials, basically,

580
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: um Jones, or like a senior class member, would read

581
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: aloud the alleged offense, the entire class would immediately chant

582
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: of guilty. All in unison, or in the accused was

583
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: banished to the library. Um I love that there's now

584
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: banishments and again a high school history quest. Yeah, it's

585
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: like the library became a concentration camp. If you weren't

586
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: catching on to where this was leading, I mean, as

587
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: concentration camps go, that's not the worst, better than most

588
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: concentration camps. Thank you for making ethical concentration camps. Um.

589
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: Several students elected themselves like me saying ethical concentration camps there,

590
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: grass fed. That's not a not a great buy local

591
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: when you buy a concentration camp. So I mean Powell's

592
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: Books was just one concentration camp. I wouldn't complain. They

593
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: have coffee and books. It's exactly. Pell's Books is a

594
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: large bookstore. When when the Proud Boys take over Portland

595
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: and they sent me to the Powell's Books right now. Yeah,

596
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: none of this is very good. Oh don't worry, I

597
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: can I can make it much worse by reading my script. Good. Yes,

598
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: please continue. Several students elected themselves to become bodyguards for Jones,

599
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: and they made their own black out an ass, they

600
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: made their own black art vents. Yeah, so he he

601
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: has spontaneously his students developed an SS their own arm bits. Yeah. Yeah,

602
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: that's great. Like parents were like questioning their kids about

603
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: why they had armed bents, like no, no, no, it's

604
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: it's it's too it's to protect Mr Jones. It's just

605
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: part of the experiment. They called Jones very concerned, and

606
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: Jon just like, no, don't worry, We're just we're just

607
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: studying the German psyche, is what he told them. Yeah. See,

608
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: I would have additional questions as a parent, not to

609
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: backseat parents, because I I've never had a kid, but

610
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: I think I would have questions at that point in

611
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: the experiment, like what the fund is wrong with you?

612
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: And why are you a teacher? Was very offended by

613
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: the sentence you just said, yeah, my kid, you've never

614
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: had a kid. I had a baby your leg, Therigen's

615
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: eyes are closed. The Antifa kittens sleeping on my leg. Now,

616
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: my cat is not going to be happy, but she'll

617
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: learn because I want her to raise a kitten and

618
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: teach it. All that chos um and because all of

619
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: the quotes from Jones have just been amazing and full

620
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: of typos um, but also you know, really really interesting

621
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: and terrible. I'm gonna do another one, and this one

622
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: is actually pretty long. Um. Many of the students were

623
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: completely into being third Wave members. They demanded strict obedience

624
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: of the rules from other students and believed those that

625
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: took the experiment lightly others simply sunk into the activities

626
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: and took on self assigned rules. I particularly remember my

627
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: students Robert Um Robert was big for his age and

628
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: displayed very few academic skills. Um. Oh, he he tried

629
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: harder than anyone else to be successful. Remember this for later.

630
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: It is actually very important. Um. But but he handled

631
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: in the He handed in elaborate week weekly reports, copied

632
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: word for word from from reference books to the libraries.

633
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: But he just he just wasn't wasn't very academically skilled. Actually, um, Robert,

634
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: like so many other kids in school, didn't excel or

635
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: cause trouble. They aren't that bright. They can't make the

636
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: athletic teams. They don't strike out for attention. They're lost invisible.

637
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: And the only reason why I came to know Robert

638
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: at all is that I often found him eating lunch

639
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: in my classroom because he always ate alone. Um. Well,

640
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: the third Wave gave Robert a place in the school.

641
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: He was at last equal to everyone else. He could

642
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: do something, be a part, be meaningful, and that's what

643
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: Robert did. Late Wednesday afternoon, I found Robert following me

644
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: and I asked. I asked him what, what in the

645
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: world he was doing? He smiled and announced, Mr Jones,

646
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm your bodyguard. I'm afraid something will happen to you.

647
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: He followed me everywhere in the faculty room, which was

648
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: close to students. Um, he stood silently at attention as

649
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: I gulped down coffee. When accosted by an English teacher

650
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: for being, you know, for having a student in the

651
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: in the in the teacher's room, he just smiled at

652
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: her and informed her that he wasn't a student, he

653
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: was a bodyguard. Yeah. Yeah, well more just like that's

654
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: how the SS got started. It was initially Hitler's bodyguard,

655
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: Like that's what it was, and then it turned into

656
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: kind of a state within the state. Yeah, and so

657
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: this spontaneously generated Heinrich Himbler. Yeah, so it started with

658
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: Robert and then um, a group of a group of

659
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: seniors from another one of Jones's classes who were interested

660
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: in the experiment. And they were kind of they were

661
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: part of like the car club quote unquote. They they

662
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: all wear like leather jackets and worked on cars because

663
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: they were cool. They all became the rest of his bodyguards,

664
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: putting on the black arm bands. Um, and they like

665
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: just they like just beat up random students. Um. Yeah,

666
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: they were not that cool at Um, they kind of sucked,

667
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: but yeah, like well we'll we'll hear more over this

668
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: at the end. But like Jones talked a lot about

669
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: how like the people who really got into the wave

670
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: were all the students in the middle, people who were

671
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: not great at school, weren't terrible at school, all people

672
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: who just kind of barely coasted by, and I like

673
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: gave them something to be in and something something something

674
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: to do. Um, you know, for people like this this

675
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: Rubbert person who finally was able to you know, I

676
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: feel like he had some kind of meaning in in school. Yeah.

677
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like we talked about in the Little

678
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: Nazis episode. It's the little men who was to whom

679
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: Nazi appealed the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, Well,

680
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk a lot about this at the end. Actually,

681
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of really interesting

682
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: parallels there. Um. By the morning of day four, so again,

683
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: we've we've already had strength through discipline, strength through community,

684
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: strength through action. We've had fistfights and hallways, people trying

685
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: to get kids from other elementary schools to join again,

686
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: not even high schools, elementary schools. By the morning of

687
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: day four, Jones started to realize that he kind of

688
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: lost control of the experiment. Earlier that night, a father

689
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: of a student who I whom I believe to actually

690
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: be the first person kicked out of class and who

691
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: the person who made like the third wave posters I believe.

692
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty sure it was actually her father,

693
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: UM broke into the classroom and ransacked it. Um to

694
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: to to quote Jones, he was a retired Air Force

695
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: colonel who spent a lot of time in a German

696
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: prison war camp. UM, upon hearing of our activity, he

697
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: simply lost control. Late into the evening, he broke into

698
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: the classroom and tore it apart. I found him that morning,

699
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: propped up against the classroom door. He told me about

700
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: his friends that had been killed in Germany. He was

701
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: holding on to me and shaking. He pleaded with me

702
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: that I understand and I try to help him get home.

703
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: I called his wife and with the help of a neighbor,

704
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: walked him home. We spent hours later talking about why

705
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: he why he did what he did, and what he

706
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: was feeling at the time. Um. But from that moment

707
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: on Thursday morning, I was very concerned. Umbo was about

708
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: what might be happening in school. So you your your

709
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: your self appointed should staffel are beating up kids in

710
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: the school like you have informants and show trials, but

711
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: you you weren't concerned. Then you finally get concerned when

712
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: a Holocaust survivor tears up your classroom. Yeah, it's I

713
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: don't know this is true or not, because this this

714
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: is a thing only Jones talks about and he seems credible. Um,

715
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: But on day three Jones claims how he got the

716
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: extra bodyguards. Besides, Robert Um was like the members of

717
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: his car club beat Jones up and threw him in

718
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: a dumpster and demanded that they beat his bodyguards, and

719
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: he said, yes, Now I have no way to very.

720
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: I didn't put this in the script because I don't

721
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: actually think it happened. That seems like, well, he doesn't

722
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 1: seem like a credible person, but it may have happened,

723
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: which I think is like, if that happened, that should

724
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: have been this line that things were getting out of control.

725
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: There are so many red flags here. He should have

726
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: he should I mean, he never should have started this,

727
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: but he's certainly like there were a lot of points

728
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: it was clear that this was bad. Before the Holocaust

729
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: survivor destroyed his classroom. Yeah. So at this point, this

730
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: is like the morning of day four, Um, the third

731
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: wave was nearing one active members, which isn't how school works.

732
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: He shouldn't have a hundred student and senior class and

733
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: armed part of your class. Um. And the experiment was

734
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: also affecting Jones. Um. He reports feeling like relaxed in

735
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: his dictatorial position. The character he was putting on was

736
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: becoming his default personality. Even his wife had like it

737
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: was like getting him to be like, hey, uh, you

738
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: see you seem a little different at home. What's going on?

739
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: It seems like you might have accidentally recreated Nazism. Um. Yeah,

740
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: the way you had taken over a students lives, um,

741
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: and how the whole school kind of operated. Um. Jones

742
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: decided he needed to end it, But he didn't want

743
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: to just end the experiment all of a sudden. He

744
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: wanted there to be a conclusion and closure for participants. Um.

745
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: Jones wrote, if I stopped the experiment, a great number

746
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: of students would be left hanging. They committed themselves in

747
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: front of their peers to this radical behavior. Emotionally and psychologically.

748
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: They had exposed themselves. If I suddenly jolted them back

749
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: to the classroom. The reality that would face them would

750
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: be um confusion over the whole student body that would

751
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: remain for the rest of the year. It would be

752
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: too painful and demeaning for someone like Robert and the

753
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: students like him to be twisted back into into a

754
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: seat and told it was just a game. They would

755
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: be They would be ridiculed by the brighter students and

756
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: for their for the participation. And I couldn't let people

757
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: like Robert lose again. UM, which is I think not

758
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: a terrible Yeah. I mean, once you have recreated fascism

759
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: in your classroom and have people who have dedicated their

760
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: lives to it, you do have to You can't just

761
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: say we're done now, like yeah, yeah, but did you

762
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: radicalize the students you radicalized, like we de radicalized this kitten.

763
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: But jones solution to this, UM is very perplexing from

764
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: a standpoint of trying to limit the psychological damage and

765
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: whiplash coming from this extreme simulation back to the classroom. UM,

766
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: because I think what he did actually made things way worse. UM.

767
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: But it's very it's very fascinating what happened from fro

768
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: an experimental standpoint, but it's again. I think this is

769
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: way worse than just pulling the plug, uh Joan. In class,

770
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: Jones announced that the Third Wave isn't just a school experiment.

771
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: It's a new national political movement. In Jones's words, quote,

772
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: across the country, teachers like myself have been recruiting and

773
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: training a youth brigade capable of showing the nation a

774
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: better society through discipline, community, pride, and action. If we

775
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: can change the way a school is run, we can

776
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: change the way that factories, stores, universities, and all other

777
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 1: institutions are run. You are a selected group of young

778
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: people chosen to help in this cause. If you will

779
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: stand up and display what you have learned in the

780
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: past four days, we can change the destiny of this nation.

781
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: We can bring in a new sense of order, community pride,

782
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: and action, a new purpose. Everything rests on you and

783
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: your willingness to take a stand. This doesn't sound like

784
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: the radicalversation, Garrison. So yeah, like, no, everything you talked

785
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: about for trying to know East under the experiment, this

786
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: is not doing it. But that's all Jones um then

787
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: to quote malidify the seriousness of my words. Quote his words.

788
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: Um ordered his bodyguards to escort um, three of them

789
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: more intellectually astute students who had been dubious about the

790
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: Third Wave. So his after he makes this big announcement

791
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: and big lecture, he orders his guards to take three

792
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: people to the library um um and was and was

793
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: told the bodyguards to never let them re enter the class.

794
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: Jones then further explained that the next day there was

795
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: to be a special Third Wave members only rally. At noon,

796
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: there was to be a nationwide broadcast um formally announcing

797
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: the new political party and introducing a presidential candidate. Quoting

798
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: Jones quote, Over one thousand youth groups from every part

799
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: of the country would stand up and display their support

800
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: for such a movement. There were to be students selected

801
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: to represent their area. Um I questioned if they can

802
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: make a good showing because press had been invited to

803
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: record the event. No one laughed. There was not a

804
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: murmur of resistance. Quite the contrary, A fever pitch of

805
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: excitement swelled across the room. So I really don't know

806
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: what why he thought this would calm things over. Yeah, No,

807
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like an attempt to de radicalize. It's

808
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: very I think I think Jones's plan here and what

809
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: happened I think made everything much worse, made the trauma

810
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: much worse. Um. And and to make things even more

811
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunate. Um, by pure happenstance, a student had

812
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: a copy of the Time magazine from that month, um,

813
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: and it had a full page ad for a lumber product.

814
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: But the ad was just in big red, white and

815
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: blue lettering the Third Wave is coming. So like there's

816
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: this horriful coincidence that got them all to believe this

817
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: is like all very legit. Um. With the class convinced,

818
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: Jones set a time for this for this member members

819
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: only rally. UM. It was gonna be Friday, so for

820
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: them was tomorrow at noon. Members were told either ten

821
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: minutes early, waiting for press, in proper seating position, and

822
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: be there to quote display the discipline, community and pride

823
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: that you have all learned. The class was instructed to

824
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: not to tell any Third Way members about this. UM.

825
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was Jones's idea to de estate things

826
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: to day before was to prepare kids for this national

827
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: announcement and this big rally on the next day. UM.

828
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: Oh god, not what I would have done. I think

829
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have let the experiment gets

830
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: to this point anyway. No, but it seems like his

831
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: attempt to de radicalize them was to convince them that

832
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: they were part of a national movement, which questionable call.

833
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: But you know what's not a questionable call, Garrison of

834
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: buying all the dick pills, buying dick pills or whatever

835
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: whatever else advertises on our show. Uh products are the

836
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: only pathway to de radicalize Nazis. Services remarket, capitalism the

837
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: only thing that gets Nazis to become no longer, not historically,

838
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: that's true. Capitalism de radicalizes fasci Okay, well here's some ads. Alright,

839
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: we're back. Okay, So he's he's he's he's told his

840
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: he's gotten scared because he recreated fascism. Uh. And now

841
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: there's a concentration camp in the library, and also his

842
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: uh students are he's attempted to de radicalize them by

843
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 1: telling them they're part of a nationwide movement to change

844
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: the character of the country. No notes, Okay, now they're

845
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: going to have a big meeting and he's going to

846
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: tell them all to stop being fascist. Right, that's gonna

847
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: happen now what happens? Yes, okay, Um, But throughout the week,

848
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: a school reporter was trying to find out about the

849
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: third Wave. UM. But whenever he asked questions about it,

850
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: two people they just wouldn't talk. Um until he got

851
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: ahold of the librarian. Um after the rally was announced. UM.

852
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: So we basically you gotta lead of what was happening

853
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: through the library because again all the students were banished

854
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: were sent to the library. After the rally was announced. Um,

855
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: two of the third Wave bodyguards went into the school

856
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: journalism office and beat up the reporter. God damn it,

857
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: he did a good job remaking Nazism, the people wearing

858
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: the black arm bands. It definitely wasn't his job, but

859
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: he did it. Um, telling telling After they beat about,

860
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: they told him not to write about the Third Wave

861
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: or the upcoming rally, which yet I guess learned a

862
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 1: little bit about. UM. So yeah, that was the state

863
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: of that. UM. If you're, you know, trying to keep

864
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: a tally going on, how on how well the fashism

865
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: is working? Um? So Day five, Friday morning, the final day,

866
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 1: the school auditorium was plastered with Third Wave banners and posters,

867
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: like everywhere UMNT third Way members began already arriving and

868
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: filling up the seats. At noon, the auditorium held over

869
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: two hundred Third Wave memberss SO again, this class started

870
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: with twenty five people and it grew to an auditorium

871
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: filled with two hundred Nazis um over over five days.

872
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: Um SO. They were waiting to hear the national announcement

873
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: of the new political party and their presidential nominee. UH

874
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: Jones had several of his friends in the room posing

875
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: as reporters taking pictures, and he also set up a

876
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: TV in the middle of the room. As a clock

877
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: struck twelve, the bodyguards closed all the doors and were

878
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: stationed in front of all the exits. I don't know

879
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: why this happened, but everyone reports that it did, so

880
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: it probably happened, um Jones. Jones says quote. Uh says

881
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: to the class before turning on the national press coverage,

882
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: which begins in five minutes, I want to demonstrate to

883
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: the press the extent of our training. He then moves

884
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: his arm up to salute. Two hundred arms follow all

885
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: the same time. Apparently, also, one student on day four

886
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: suggested they all wore white shirts, which they did on

887
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: this last day. So it's like, you know, very unite

888
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: the right ish with two hundred people all wearing white

889
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 1: shirts doing this Nazi salute. Yeah. Um. Jones says, strength

890
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: through discipline, and the students all in unison repeat back.

891
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: The phrase gets recited over and over, each time getting louder. Um.

892
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: At twelve oh five, Jones orders lights turned off, walks

893
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: over to the television set and turns it on. The

894
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: white static illuminates their room just enough to see the

895
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: faces of the students. UM. Robert, the bodyguard is standing

896
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: beside Jones. Jones tells him to watch the watch the

897
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: students faces closely. Minutes pass nothing, nothing happens, the TVs on.

898
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: Minutes passed, there's nothing, you know, nothing's turning on. Um.

899
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: The students are in a trance watching the television. Eventually,

900
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: one student stands up in yells there is no party leader,

901
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: is there. The class turns in shock to look at

902
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: the student, and then looks back at the television. Um.

903
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: The other d students were all silent um, some of them,

904
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: but some of their posture was relaxing back to normal.

905
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: Jones turns out it turns out the television and says

906
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: to the students, there is no leader, there's no such

907
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: thing as a national youth movement called the third Wave.

908
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: Let me show you your future. Jones turns on a

909
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: projector right beside the TV and on the wall images

910
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: and a film flash on the wall of Hitler Nazi

911
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: rally's Third Reich marching with with their trained discipline, people

912
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: being put into train cars off to off to death camps.

913
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:30,439
Speaker 1: UM and so Jones begins lecturing, as as this as

914
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 1: this UM film about the Nazis, UM plays, and the

915
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: kids just like completely quiet just watching this UM. Some

916
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: of them are. They're completely quiet right now. Eventually they

917
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: all start breakdown and crying wonderful yeah, like nowhere like protests,

918
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: like everyone's everyone's very kind of feeling bad. Um so UM.

919
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: As Jones is like starting his lecture, the film UM

920
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: finishes and Free System hold on a single written frame

921
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: that says everyone must accept the blame. No one can

922
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: claim they didn't in some way take part. Jones says

923
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: to the class, you and I are no better or

924
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: worse than the German Nazis that we've been studying. You

925
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: thought you were better than those outside this room. You

926
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: bargained away your freedom for the comfort of discipline and superiority.

927
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: We will watch our neighbors be taken away and do nothing.

928
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: We are just like those Germans. We would give up

929
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: our freedom for the chance of being special. Um Jones.

930
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: Then I think, as you should have expressed his remorse

931
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: and apologized to the class for all the trauma that

932
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: he had cost um. But he decides to give one

933
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: kind of final lecture to kind of I know, trying

934
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: to smooth things over to begin. This has already gone

935
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: way too far and has made too many bad choices

936
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: up to this point. But this is this is the

937
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: last thing he does for this experiment. Um, here's a

938
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: Here's a here's a paragraph. A paragraph from Jones. Here.

939
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: Through the experiment last week, we've all tasted what it

940
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: was like to live and act on or Nazi Germany.

941
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: We learned what was like to create a disciplined social environment,

942
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: to build a special society, pledge allegiance to that society,

943
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: replaced reason with rules. Yes, we would have all made

944
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: good Germans. We would have put on the uniform and

945
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: turned our heads as friends and neighbors were cursed then persecuted.

946
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 1: We all know, in a small way what it feels

947
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: like to find a hero, to grab a quick solution,

948
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: to feel strong and in control of destiny. We know

949
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: the fear of being left out, the pleasure of doing

950
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: something right and being rewarded, to be number one, to

951
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: be right, to be taken taken to the extreme. As

952
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: we've seen and perhaps felt what those actions will lead to,

953
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: we each have witnessed something over the past week. We

954
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: have seen that fascism is not just something that other

955
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: people do. Know. It's right here in this room. It's

956
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: in our own personal habits, and it's it's in our

957
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: way of life. Scratch the surface, and it appears something

958
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 1: in all of us. We carry it like a disease.

959
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: The belief that human beings are basically evil and therefore

960
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: unable to act well towards others. That's what fascism breeds on.

961
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: It's the belief, a belief that demands a strong leader

962
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: and discipline to preserve a social order which is is

963
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: not not not a terrible No. I mean, he's right,

964
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 1: but he shouldn't. Yeah, it's a weird thing to say

965
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: after creating fascism, But he's not wrong about the thing

966
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: that he created. Yeah yeah, um he he he he

967
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: finishes up. Um this you know this this small talk

968
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: the same way this all started. Um. He asked the class,

969
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: if they, like the regular Germans, will claim ignorance and

970
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: claim non involvement um quote. If our enactment of the

971
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: fascist mentality is complete, not one of you will ever

972
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: admit to being at this final third wave rally. Like

973
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: the Germans, you will have trouble admitting to yourself that

974
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 1: you've come this far. You will not allow your friends

975
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 1: and parents to know that you were willing to give

976
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: up individual freedom and power um for for the dictates

977
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: of this social of the social order and unseen leaders.

978
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: You can't admit to be manipulated, to being a follower um,

979
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: to accepting the Third Way as your way of life.

980
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: You won't admit to participating in this madness. And you'll

981
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: probably keep this uh this day and this rally secret,

982
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: a secret that I will share with you, which Jones

983
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: was eventually wrong about. Um. Jones himself wrote about this

984
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: in semi detail about like four years later, after meeting

985
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: a student like while shopping who gave him a third

986
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: wave of salute and they kind of got him upset.

987
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 1: Then he wrote down like, oh yeah, he got upset

988
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: about the fascism. Yeah. So then then he wrote an

989
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: essay about it. Um. But students definitely do talk about it. Well,

990
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: we'll actually we'll hear from some students in a in

991
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: a bit. Um. But Jones turned off the projector um.

992
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: That you know, it's it's that's still had. Everyone must

993
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: accept the blame. No one can claim that they weren't involved,

994
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: or no one can claimed that they didn't in some

995
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: way take part. So he turn turns out the turns

996
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 1: out the projector um. Then he then he sees Robert

997
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: who was sobbing, um, as many others to were as well.

998
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: Jones hugged Robert as he was crying, and slowly students

999
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: left the auditorium. And that's the experiment. So that that

1000
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: was what happened. That was that was the five day

1001
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: That was the five days permanently damaged some kids, he did.

1002
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 1: There's a lot of yeah, a lot of kids now

1003
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: they're like adults in their fifties and sixties. Um, But yeah,

1004
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: they a lot of a lot of people think it

1005
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: was a good experiment experience for them as a kid.

1006
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: But a lot of people say, no, this did your

1007
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: reversible damage. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting experiment and

1008
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: a useful one if you want to study fascism. But

1009
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: it's bad that he did it too small children, yes,

1010
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: to fifteen year olds mainly. Yeah. Um, so now we're

1011
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: left wondering why was the experiment kind of so effective,

1012
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: especially for being only five days. Um. Now, I do

1013
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: think Jones had a pretty solid understanding of fascism in

1014
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: some ways, and um, he actually explains a lot of it. Um. Well, um,

1015
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: this is this. This is a quote for Jones. This

1016
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: is a quote from Jones. You have to understand the

1017
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: times there was a radical no sorry, there was racial

1018
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: integration taking place in the high school for the first time. Um,

1019
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: and that through the school kind of upside down, and

1020
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,439
Speaker 1: all of the young men were facing the draft when

1021
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: when they graduated, I was I was basically promising I

1022
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 1: can make you safe again. Um. This was written before

1023
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: Trump ran. So yeah, it's just you know, just a good,

1024
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: good thing to a good thing to think of. Was

1025
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: the whole I can make you safe again thing? Um?

1026
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: Multiple students yeah, yeah, Um. Multiple students bring up Vietnam

1027
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: as a heavy contributing factor for why they you know,

1028
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: fell into this, especially like bought into like the whole

1029
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: national movement thing. Um. And as well, of course Jones

1030
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: had a lot of natural charisma and strength as as

1031
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: a leader. Um, this is a quote from a student.

1032
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: A big reason I went along with it was my

1033
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,959
Speaker 1: trust for Jones, and I was just beginning to feel

1034
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: better about Vietnam and the experiment seemed like we could

1035
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: change the government responsible for hurting us. There was a

1036
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: feeling that something really remarkable was going to happen of

1037
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: going on throughout the whole country, and the movement was

1038
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: going to change politics, change the structure of the school.

1039
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: The combination of everything just made it happen. And a

1040
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of the men who talk about

1041
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: what it was like in the experiment bring up the

1042
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: fear of Vietnam being, you know, a pretty a pretty

1043
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: um heavy factor for why they you know, bottle bought

1044
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: into the growing up into a world that seems dangerous

1045
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: and unhealthy for you, and uh so you embrace a

1046
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: strong man and a hope that he can bring things

1047
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: back to an imagined past that you barely remember from

1048
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: your childhood. Yeah, yeah, that seems okay. Um. The other

1049
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 1: thing that Jones makes a note of is who really

1050
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: thrived under under the wave. And it's those people like

1051
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: Robert Um, the ones that neither excelled in school nor

1052
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: cause much trouble Um, quoting Jones, I was accustomed to

1053
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: very intelligent girls UM and the troublemakers in the back

1054
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: of the room. But what the wave generated was a

1055
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: major rule with a great majority UM who stayed quiet

1056
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: and got and barely got through school. I realized that

1057
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: as a teacher, I had probably ignored them for the

1058
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: most part, and all of a sudden, Um, this great,

1059
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: massive energy took place, and they were all brilliant in

1060
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: their own way. So it was the people that were

1061
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: never were neither really good at school nor terrible, just

1062
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: as people kind of barely like barely getting by Um.

1063
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: In another interview, Jones says it was the middle group

1064
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: that became energized. They became the winners for a brief moment,

1065
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: and that that that's the thing. That's also the thing

1066
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: that the two things that come up the most often

1067
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: when reading about this from students and teach other teachers,

1068
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: and the principle was one being Vietnam. Oh yes, also

1069
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: Jones being very charismatic UM. But the other one was

1070
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: like it gave this middle group that were kind of

1071
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: being ignored at the time released something to do, and

1072
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: that's what they really latched onto. Um. Yeah. And the

1073
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: next step I did, after doing all the research for

1074
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: the for like the third Wave stuff, was just doing

1075
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, a brief a brief um re entry into

1076
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: you know, fascist studies to kind of see if I

1077
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: can pick up any other um similarities between what Jones

1078
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: did and what these people you know talk about as

1079
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: being the traits or passions of fascism. Um. So I

1080
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: was looking at Robert Paxton's um work for the underlying

1081
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: passions um Yeah, and author of Anatomy of Fascism, which

1082
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 1: is one of the best academic treatments of the subject. Yeah. Um.

1083
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: And almost every every passion he has usually maybe his

1084
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: theories that one of his theories is that passion fascism

1085
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: basically is caused by these you know, these feelings that

1086
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 1: we have in humans and then that causes us to

1087
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: do different actions. Um. And all the passions that he

1088
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: talks about that kind of cause passism to happen are

1089
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: all present in some degree. Um. For the third Wave. UM,

1090
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: we obviously had the supremacy of the group which is

1091
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: one of the one of the traits. Um. The Vietnam

1092
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: War was definitely the overwhelming crisis that traditional solutions couldn't

1093
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: fix for a to like the men at least there

1094
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: um for all, like the teenagers who were like facing

1095
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: the draft who didn't want to go. Um. There was

1096
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of group victimization with the warring poster wars,

1097
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: but not as much. Um. We we definitely had an

1098
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: authority of the male leader, which was which was Jones. Um.

1099
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: We definitely had the superiority of the leader's words over

1100
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: abstract and universal reason. In his announcement of the Third

1101
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: Wave like rally and Jones even says during his final

1102
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: lecture that you know, in times of uncertainty, it's easy

1103
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: to replace reason with rules. So yeah, it's like this

1104
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: this this thing that you know, we replace our natural

1105
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: logical thought process with this undying devotion to this leader

1106
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: no matter what, no matter how crazy things they say.

1107
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: Is that you still believe it because they're offering you

1108
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: something in exchange, which of course we can also you know,

1109
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: tie it to the president and stuff. Um. In terms

1110
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: of the love of violence, the violence was minimal, but

1111
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: it was definitely there. I mean there were there were

1112
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: there there were fift pits on the halliway, is they

1113
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: beat up that school reporter? Well, I mean it could

1114
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: have been worse, I think, I mean it could have

1115
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: been what happened to Nazi Germany. Yes, there could have

1116
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: been genicided the perspective of this being a high school

1117
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: history class, I don't know how much worse it realistically

1118
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: could have been, right in terms of high school history

1119
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: class where five days there was a lot of violence. Um. Um.

1120
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: The other two passions that Paxton talks about our dread

1121
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: of the group's decline under corrosive effects of individualistic um uh,

1122
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: liberalism and the need for closer integration into a pure community. Um.

1123
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: And this is where things get a little bit more complicated, um.

1124
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: Because a defining aspect of fascism is that it's self

1125
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: contradictory and ideologically inconsistent. And the way that I often

1126
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: see that surface and fascism is that how fascism is

1127
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: both heavily individualistic and heavily group oriented and community driven

1128
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: as BC from like you know, the strength through community

1129
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,439
Speaker 1: kind of chance and stuff. Um. But I think part

1130
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: of this, part of part part of how this works

1131
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: is that the idea of community um and the idea

1132
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: of being in this special group. It basically gives you

1133
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: the opportunity to pursue being an individual hero. It's like

1134
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: this weird is fake support system that lets you be

1135
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: this individual person. It's the same thing we're seeing. It's

1136
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: the same thing we see with like the Proud Boys

1137
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: and with these other sort of the same thing with police,

1138
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: Like the police if you look, if you look at

1139
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: like the warrior training they do. Yes, it's both like, no,

1140
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: you have to help out the officers within like a moment,

1141
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: you can't question them. It's part of this very community

1142
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: driven thing. But also they're training to be the individual

1143
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: warrior sitting on a rooftop with their cape flying in

1144
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: the wind. That it's it's both of those aspects. The

1145
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: good old fashioned cult of the hero that is uh

1146
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: kind of central to American culture because it's very easy

1147
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: to market because you can sell people body armor and

1148
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: guns and all the gear that they need to make

1149
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: themselves into a hero. But then they don't have anybody

1150
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: to fight and kill because that's what we say heroes do,

1151
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: So they start going out into the streets and finding

1152
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: people to do it too. Yeah, it's great, it's very

1153
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: good speaking of cult of the hero, which is um

1154
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: the other kind of main scholar of fascism, which um

1155
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: em Bert to echo, one of his fourteen traits of

1156
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: fascism is the cult of the hero Um. And then

1157
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: the so the next after I looked into Paxiston, Um,

1158
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: the other I looked over I brick, you know, browsed

1159
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: over Bert to Echos fourteen traits and tied a few

1160
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: of them pretty clearly. Some some of them don't fit

1161
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: as perfect because of how small and young the third

1162
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: wave was like. It didn't you know, a lot of

1163
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: a lot of Paxistan's trade and a lot of them

1164
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: Echoes traits are for like actual political parties, um, which

1165
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: they didn't quite get too. But you can definitely see

1166
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: the seeds being planted there. Um. Of course we have

1167
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: we have the cult of tradition, which with with the

1168
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: third waves emphasis on creating discipline and creating those traditions themselves, Um.

1169
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:55,959
Speaker 1: Rejection of modernism and going back to the old strict

1170
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: teaching style and away from the loose modern style of

1171
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: the late sixties and started the style that like Jones

1172
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: was really into, which was you know, the very loose

1173
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: experimental thing um, the cult of action for action's sake,

1174
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: with basically the folks of the whole day, remember the

1175
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: whole strength through Action day, which so that that definitely happened. Um.

1176
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: Disagreement was absolutely treason, as people were banished to the

1177
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: library for just you know, questioning the experiment um. And

1178
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: as Jones mentions, there were appeals to social frustration with

1179
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: the new racial integration in the school um and the

1180
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: looming draft um Jones rights of fascism quote. Facism is

1181
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: always a possibility because it's so simple that people are frustrated,

1182
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,959
Speaker 1: they lose their jobs, their dignity, their sense of worth,

1183
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: and someone comes along and says, hey, I've got this answer. Um.

1184
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: So the rest of the rest of Berdaco straits like

1185
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: the fear of difference, obsession with the plot enemy being

1186
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: strong and weak, contempt for the week life is warfare,

1187
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: which is mon wereponary, selective populism, and new speak. Again,

1188
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: those get into a little specifically. These get a little

1189
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: too specifically international politics um to make really easy comparisons

1190
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: to the Third Wave. But I can definitely see the

1191
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: seeds being planted there with the Jones talking about the

1192
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: third waves like National Party and stuff. Um, I think

1193
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: those would have absolutely developed very quickly. Especially I think

1194
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: you can even you know, Michi's mown referee to some degree,

1195
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: with like the whole car club becoming bodyguards themselves. Um,

1196
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: and there was there was definitely a little bit of

1197
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: new speed going on. Uh. Now Jones does regret doing

1198
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: the experiment, um as he's he says almost any every

1199
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: interview he talks, he you know, when he talks about it,

1200
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: saying it was way too dangerous and way way too damaging.

1201
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, yeah, um. But he still recommends people,

1202
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, actually study and learn from it since like

1203
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: since since since it did happen, you may as well,

1204
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:42,959
Speaker 1: you know, focus on it and like I learned about it.

1205
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: But he does, he doesn't, he doesn't regret doing it

1206
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: um um. In fact, reading a book on the waves

1207
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 1: actually required reading in Germany for like all schools, they're

1208
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: required to they're required to read a whole book about

1209
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 1: the wave because Germany actually cares about not fostering a

1210
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: culture of fashions him. Um yeah, just kind of just

1211
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: it's just it's just a fun little circle there from

1212
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: learning about Germany and their world history class to the

1213
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: learning about You fucked up so badly that Germany decided

1214
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: to make what you did a cautionary tale about the

1215
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: required thing for school. Yeah, that's good being a teacher. Congratulations.

1216
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: Many students look back on the experiment as a positive

1217
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: learning experience. Um. One student became who became a filmmaker,

1218
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: made a whole documentary on the topic and interviewed a

1219
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: lot of interviewed alat of students. Um. But there are many,

1220
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: many students and a lot of parents who are very

1221
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: upset at Jones for the experiment and thought it was

1222
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 1: way too damaging for their young pigs. Yeah some big shock. Um.

1223
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: Two years after the experiment um ended, Jones was denied

1224
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: tenure at the school and was fired. Um that but

1225
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 1: here's but but here is here's kind of the twist. Um.

1226
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: Jones was fired under pressure from the conservative parents, conservative

1227
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: school board, and the principal who accused Jones of indoctrinating

1228
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: students into radical leftism instead of just teaching them. Um.

1229
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: He was fired for being a socialist, and he was

1230
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: fired for his links to his anti war activism. Oh

1231
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: so not for he wasn't physic spermon. He was fired

1232
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: for being a political activist and quote unquote indoctrity students

1233
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: until being like leftists. Um, yeah, they were. Actually they

1234
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 1: were actually huge student protests when news broke that Jones

1235
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: Jones was being fired because he was still by far

1236
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: the most popular teacher in the school. Um, got, all

1237
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: of this is so bad, all of this bodes so

1238
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: ill for the human condition. Awesome, fantastic. I like the

1239
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: thing he should have gotten fired for it is the

1240
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: fascist experiments. Was was making a concentration camp in the library,

1241
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: or maybe when his bodyguards were beating people. He shouldn't

1242
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: have been fired for turning kids into commies, but like

1243
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: not by not by experiment. He should have been fired

1244
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 1: for like turning children into into anything really like you

1245
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't be yes, but like ideologically brainwashing children either way.

1246
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: But the communism wasn't the problem, no, And he wasn't

1247
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 1: doing experiments to lead people into communism. He was just teaching.

1248
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: He was they big, he was just actually like he

1249
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: was fired for just teaching a history class and actually

1250
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, learning about you know, the labor movement and

1251
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And conservative parents didn't like that. Um,

1252
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: And the principal says, you know, the principle says he

1253
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: fired him because he was, you know, the way he

1254
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: was teaching students about you know, um like radical movements. UM.

1255
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 1: Students were becoming too sympathetic to these like you know,

1256
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: racial justice causes and like labor rights causes. UM. So

1257
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 1: that's why he was fired. UM. The Raves since been

1258
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: adapted into a few books in East TV film a

1259
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 1: focus of multiple documentaries, one of which being made by

1260
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: a student. UM. They made a whole German live action

1261
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: film on it UM and a German TV show because again,

1262
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: they care about this in Germany. And Jones also wrote.

1263
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: Jones wrote a musical based off the Third Wave, they

1264
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: Don't So and and since since Jones's since has since

1265
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: spent his time UM. After in the seventies he became

1266
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: like a very brief stint of being a punk rocker,

1267
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: which is just fun. And then he became just a

1268
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: go writer, written about thirty books, including some children's books.

1269
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: He's actually an award winning author UM. And he's currently

1270
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: a teacher for special needs adults in like UM in

1271
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: like in like disability schools. UM. And that's the third Wave. See,

1272
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: I wouldn't let that guy around kids anymore. No, he's

1273
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: not around kids. He's teaching adults with special needs. Okay,

1274
01:09:55,040 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: well all right at either Yeah, but by all means,

1275
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 1: he is a very good teacher when he's actually teaching.

1276
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: But as long as he doesn't turn all the adults

1277
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: with special needs into Nazis, then I don't know. It

1278
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: seems like he did that once and might again. So

1279
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: what's what's your kind of insights? Because like you read

1280
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 1: about fascism, it often scans like the terrifying thing here

1281
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: is how quickly it happens and how quickly how easy

1282
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: it is to get children on board something like that,

1283
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: because all you need to do, Like he's right, Like

1284
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: the thing that he observed is very obvious, which is

1285
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: that when you have when you create, like you go

1286
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: into a system that's that's kind of static. Like you've

1287
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: got this high school. Everybody has their places in it.

1288
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: Everybody has kind of their places in the social order.

1289
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people who aren't special, who

1290
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: don't do well in school, or athletics, who aren't popular,

1291
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: who are just sort of there, and you provide them

1292
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: with a way that they can be better than everyone. Um,

1293
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,799
Speaker 1: And it's by in bracing this new movement. Like that's

1294
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: that's the thing that you do. It's the thing that

1295
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,719
Speaker 1: Trump did is you had all these people who didn't

1296
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: really have any kind of like they they you know,

1297
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: our our society was has been increasingly stratified. There's an

1298
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 1: increasing gap between the rich and the poor. And there

1299
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: was a large chunk of people who didn't really have

1300
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: anything to feel good about. Like they were struggling at work,

1301
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: they didn't like their jobs, their education hadn't gotten them

1302
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: anywhere they were, they were bogged down with debt. And

1303
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 1: then Trump comes in and says, hey, I'm going to

1304
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: give you a chance. I'm going I'm going to like

1305
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: make a new thing that you can reinvent yourself as

1306
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: a part of. Like that's where all these proud boys

1307
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: came from. It's where a lot of these like uh,

1308
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: Patriot Coalition, Patriot prayer prayer types. They are these people

1309
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:48,640
Speaker 1: who didn't really have anything to do, and suddenly fascism

1310
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,639
Speaker 1: gave them a way to be special and a group

1311
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: of people to attack um, which is what you need

1312
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 1: and it's people. That's the thing that you know, separates

1313
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 1: that from like what Bernie Sanders did. Yeah, is that

1314
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: Trump's solution was regressive and going back to a fake history. Um.

1315
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, movements on the left usually try to

1316
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: move forwards of now, when movements on left gain an

1317
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: authoritarian leader and move forwards, that still you know ends

1318
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: up bad because bism does. But fascism is so insidious

1319
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: in that, you know, it's way more comfortable to people

1320
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 1: because it's appealing to this past sense of society, and

1321
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: usually the past isn't as scary as like a new

1322
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 1: thing in the future. That is why a lot of

1323
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 1: people get hooked on it. Yeah, and you see what

1324
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: you saw in this experiment was like as soon as

1325
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 1: you get as soon as these kids realize, as soon

1326
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 1: as like the people who kind of embrace this like

1327
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 1: start to feel attached to it because it's given them

1328
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: a way to be special, it's given them a place,

1329
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: it's given them something to fight for. They will use

1330
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: without thought violence to protect it, um because they can't.

1331
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: They they are like horrified at the thought of going

1332
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: back to the old order in which they weren't special, um,

1333
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: in which they didn't have a place like that. That's

1334
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: that's the thing that also scares me about what's going

1335
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,719
Speaker 1: to happen in one like as as we've been talking

1336
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: about this on Twitter, somebody posted a picture of like

1337
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,919
Speaker 1: one of the people heading to d C this weekend

1338
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: for the big Trump rally, and it was like it

1339
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 1: was a guy who had like a spartan helmet that

1340
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: had Trumps in blue and red, and he had like

1341
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: a Trump Make Liberals Cry Again shirt and like board

1342
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: shorts that had Trump's face as Captain America on the

1343
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: right over the crotch, which was weird, and then a

1344
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: Trump flag that he was wearing as a cape. And

1345
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, the movement, the this fucking fascist movement

1346
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,639
Speaker 1: that Trump created in the United States gave this guy

1347
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: something that he makes him feel special, that makes him

1348
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: feel like things can't be going all that well for

1349
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:51,599
Speaker 1: that dude. Which is not to say that like only

1350
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: because obviously like Trump's voters tended to be higher income

1351
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,640
Speaker 1: more often the lower income, but like he was not

1352
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 1: a he was not happy with things before Trump. Trump

1353
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 1: gave him something to feel like a part of and

1354
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: something to struggle against this vague idea of the left

1355
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: of liberals. Um so he has an enemy and he

1356
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 1: has a purpose and he's not going to just like

1357
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's the thing that It's the problem that

1358
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 1: the teacher had with the wave is that like, well,

1359
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: now that you've built this thing, how do you just

1360
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: stop all of a sudden it's gonna fuck these people

1361
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 1: up and they're either going to wind up weeping, which

1362
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: is the best case scenario, or getting violent. I mean yeah,

1363
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: and you know the week after the wave happened, they

1364
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 1: basically sent in his class. The week later, it was

1365
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,600
Speaker 1: basically just a week full of therapy. Yeah, that was

1366
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 1: what he did. He did not they didn't like just

1367
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: move on to Russia. It's like, no, like they spent

1368
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: a whole week basically doing therapy because they were all,

1369
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, very messed up. Yeah, I mean, we could

1370
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: use some of that here, but it won't happen. Instead,

1371
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: they'll just buy more guns, which is why ammunition is

1372
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 1: sold out. But they could buy four thousand rounds of

1373
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 1: blanks by accident. There was that guy on four Chune

1374
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 1: rounds of five point four or five by thirty nine

1375
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: blanks and thought they were real bullets, and then it

1376
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,759
Speaker 1: was very sad, which is quite funny. The best case scenario,

1377
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: he lost money and got useless bullets. Yeah, he got

1378
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: he lost money and got bullets that he can't use

1379
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: to kill people. Yea, unless it's Bruce Lee. Sorry, oh god.

1380
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: Um yeah, that's kind of all I have here on

1381
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: the topic. Um yeah, I'm trying. Yeah, that's that's kind

1382
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 1: of that kind of hits all of the boxes I

1383
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about. Yep. Well, Garrison, thank you for

1384
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 1: bumming me out. Normally it's my job to bump other

1385
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 1: people out to that next week. I'm two for two

1386
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 1: on child abuse for my episodes. Oh, I mean that

1387
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: those are all the best episodes is where children get abused.

1388
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: That's what people come to the show for, is to

1389
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 1: watch kids be traumatized. Yeah, I mean. But also I mean,

1390
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 1: I guess I'm good for writing that because I am

1391
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: previously a child where you were a child unlike Sophie

1392
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:58,759
Speaker 1: and I. Yeah, I thought they came for your sparkling personality, Robert.

1393
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 1: Uh No, they come for the child abuse. But I mean,

1394
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: as someone who was as someone who was like more

1395
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 1: um conservative, when I was like fifteen, the same age

1396
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: as all of these people, I can I can easily

1397
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 1: see if I was in this scenario, how I would

1398
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 1: have also absolutely followed suit, which is why when I

1399
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: read this book as a fifteen year old, I'm like,

1400
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 1: oh wait, oh no, there's some problems here, which eventually,

1401
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 1: you know, got me to not be a conservative anymore

1402
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: and learn more about passions. So I guess it's all.

1403
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: It's good then that he traumatized those kids. Yeah, because

1404
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 1: the weird thing about this, He's like, I read this

1405
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: book as part of a Christian homeschooling curriculum, and I

1406
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: don't know why they included it because everything else was

1407
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: kind of just opposite to this. So I'm not sure

1408
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 1: why they included this book. Um, but I mean thanks,

1409
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: I guess they included this book and one book on

1410
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: the history of labor in the twentieth century, and though

1411
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 1: and those are those are the books that got me.

1412
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: I mean I still had like hundreds of hundreds of

1413
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: other books that were just like conservative propaganda, but they

1414
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: included these. These were the only two books that had

1415
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: like a left bent and they and they kind of

1416
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 1: they got me. They're like, oh, wow, this was a

1417
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:15,759
Speaker 1: new thing that's different from everything else I was reading

1418
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: and was kind of more interesting and made more sense. Um, yeah,

1419
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: I don't they if from their perspective they shouldn't include

1420
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: the book, but I'm very happy they did. Um so

1421
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: yeah great, Yeah, well Garrison, you got anything to plug

1422
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: before we roll out? I guess my Twitter if you

1423
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 1: want to see occasional street reporting, occasional probably stuff, oh

1424
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,719
Speaker 1: and my kitten. Yeah and now also I'll be offering

1425
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 1: occasional kitten content um for those um obliged. Also soon

1426
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: ish I'll be releasing like a ten minute short documentary

1427
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: about Portland protests on my YouTube channel. But I've been

1428
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:01,320
Speaker 1: putting off doing the anything on that for like a

1429
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: month because I'm busy and lazy. So eventually eventually that

1430
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: that will be out. So you can go go to

1431
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 1: my YouTube as well, but mainly Twitter. Yeah at at

1432
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 1: hungry Boat, I I guess I guess I should say it.

1433
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:14,679
Speaker 1: I'd be useful or going to google my name because

1434
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: like that's all you need to do. Yeah, well, everybody,

1435
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 1: this has been a fun episode of the podcast. It hasn't,

1436
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 1: but I had I had a lot of laughs. I'm

1437
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 1: glad you had a lot of laughs. I'm bummed. I'm

1438
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 1: gonna go to the gym and cry uh and get

1439
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 1: covid um different from yester. Yeah, anyway, thanks for listening

1440
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 1: to the podcast. Everybody now go find a high school

1441
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: class to radicalize, and then haphazardly de radicalize UH for

1442
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 1: questionable academic benefit. Zoom bombed them and turn them all

1443
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,600
Speaker 1: into fashions. Yeah, zoom bombed them in the Nazis. Or

1444
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 1: find a kitten and give it love. The kitten is

1445
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 1: asleep in my lap. My God, it goes so them.

1446
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: His little head's just hanging over my hand. Buddy, got

1447
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: the episode over. H