Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: Facebook watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts on this Red Table tone. I have
Speaker 1: had my fair share of mom's shaming. I felt like
Speaker 1: me and Jaden were shunned, like they're too different, they're
Speaker 1: too weird. These people are talking about your children that
Speaker 1: they don't even know. I've definitely been shamed a lot.
Speaker 1: Mommy shamers are just me and girls who grew up
Speaker 1: to be mothers. Every one of us has mom shamed.
Speaker 1: Let's own it. More Black mothers are shamed than any
Speaker 1: other group I've heard. Are all those kids yours? That's
Speaker 1: an insult. Because of the pandemic, two thirds of mommy's
Speaker 1: are getting mommy shames. What kind of person are you?
Speaker 1: That's child abuse? What it hurts, man, It really really hurts.
Speaker 1: There's this headline from the New York Times about mom
Speaker 1: shaming just running wild during the pandemic. Over the years,
Speaker 1: I have had my fair share of mom shaming. Okay
Speaker 1: with Willow, Like I think the first time I got
Speaker 1: hardcore criticism when you first cut your hair, I mean
Speaker 1: there was a firestorm. It honestly makes me like go
Speaker 1: like this because it's fun. It was a constant, constant,
Speaker 1: and even how you decided to educate us. You had
Speaker 1: two parents that worked, So I get shamed for homeschooling
Speaker 1: you so that you can be with us, and I
Speaker 1: would have gotten shame for leaving you here and you
Speaker 1: not being with not being with you. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: can win. I think people shaming me from my mother
Speaker 1: effected you far more than because you were dressed there
Speaker 1: for a moment. But I also felt like these people
Speaker 1: are talking about your children that they don't even know,
Speaker 1: making you guys out to be these brats, Hollywood brats.
Speaker 1: You were never that. Ever. The thing that I had
Speaker 1: to consider is that they weren't raised typically, and I
Speaker 1: think especially for our community, it was something new. Yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely death, specifically with the African American community. I kind
Speaker 1: of felt like me and Jaden were like shunned a
Speaker 1: little bit, like no, like they were not going to
Speaker 1: take We're not going to take pride in them because
Speaker 1: they don't. They're too different, they're too even some of
Speaker 1: our family members, I would feel they thought you're too different.
Speaker 1: We do have a way within the community that we
Speaker 1: expect our kids to be raised, like how you behave
Speaker 1: you know, how you carry yourself. But there are different
Speaker 1: ways that can be successful. It was difficult for me
Speaker 1: to even let go and give you, guys, I know,
Speaker 1: over your own children. Yeah, don't let them go off rails.
Speaker 1: Get these folks in order because of kids running around
Speaker 1: over there. They're going to bed whenever they feel like
Speaker 1: they're going to bed. No, no, no no. When I
Speaker 1: was I knew whenever Gammy was around, it ain't no joke.
Speaker 1: We ain't doing that. But I feel like it don't matter.
Speaker 1: You're gonna do. You're gonna do what she says. Okay,
Speaker 1: you got some in a new school when you got
Speaker 1: the old school. Old school was solid. Totally. Yeah. Did
Speaker 1: people shame me through you one one hundred percent. Like
Speaker 1: I would be at places or at events and like
Speaker 1: people would say things and they would be like your
Speaker 1: mom like like exactly. It was always like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: it's not your fault. Your mother should have taught you better,
Speaker 1: Like it's not it's not your fault that you're crazy.
Speaker 1: Your mother should have because that was your mother's crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why is it always your mother? Your mother should have
Speaker 1: But at the same time, though, there's different ways that
Speaker 1: the shaming happens, because I feel like you experienced it
Speaker 1: more through the media and through like the world looking
Speaker 1: at you and saying we don't think this is right.
Speaker 1: But some moms experience it like, you know, the p
Speaker 1: t A meetings and the dropping off their kids to
Speaker 1: school and the cupcakes weren't right, and you're not wearing
Speaker 1: makeup and why is your kid not wearing pjs on
Speaker 1: PJ Day? And right, I feel like that's more difficult. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we have a really this is a woman that
Speaker 1: I really admire, and when she gave birth to her
Speaker 1: first baby eight months ago, the mom shameless came for her.
Speaker 1: Supermodel Ashley Graham has been unconventional her whole life, from
Speaker 1: her first big break a controversial lingerie commercial it's something
Speaker 1: about having a waist and hips that scares these advertisers
Speaker 1: to become in the first Curby model to in the
Speaker 1: cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue. She's been unconventional
Speaker 1: in her marriage, her baby shower, and in the birth
Speaker 1: of her son Isaac. Opting for a home delivery in water.
Speaker 1: Ashley is a huge inspiration to millions, but being so
Speaker 1: outspoken sometimes has made her the target of mom shamers.
Speaker 1: Whether she's in a car pumping or in a store
Speaker 1: making emergency diaper change, thousands of hurtful mom shaming comments
Speaker 1: appear nearly every post she makes. Actually, what is up
Speaker 1: you guys? Thank you so much for having me. This
Speaker 1: is so exciting. You're glowing. I know you have felt
Speaker 1: the wrath of the mommy shaming police. You know it's
Speaker 1: interesting because my whole career has been based around body shaming,
Speaker 1: because I am a curby girl who has come into
Speaker 1: a skinny world and said that my body and other
Speaker 1: bodies like myne you to be normalized. I knew that
Speaker 1: it was coming, and I was ready to combat it.
Speaker 1: But it never feels good to have someone tell you
Speaker 1: that you're not doing a good enough job, that you're
Speaker 1: doing something wrong. I can sit here and tell you that, oh,
Speaker 1: I just brush it off, But I don't brush it off.
Speaker 1: I think if you allow the comments to get to you,
Speaker 1: they can. So this photo this is the first time
Speaker 1: I had taken Isaac out in public, and he was
Speaker 1: just under a month old and I wanted to go
Speaker 1: to my favorite brunch spot, and I thought, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: what am I going to do? I have to breastfeed. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to whip out my boob and feed him.
Speaker 1: So then I thought, justin to my husband take a picture.
Speaker 1: This is my first time breastfeeding him in public. This
Speaker 1: is something I always want to remember. I agonized over
Speaker 1: what I was going to say, and then I just
Speaker 1: finally just wrote something like two emojis like a milk
Speaker 1: and a cookie. Sure enough, I got mom shamed. I
Speaker 1: can only imagine Ashley. When I saw the picture. Inside
Speaker 1: my heart, I had to clap because I remember me
Speaker 1: myself when I would be out with Aiden and Willow breastfeeding.
Speaker 1: Remember I used to have like that little breast seed
Speaker 1: cover and it would make it so difficult. They're in there,
Speaker 1: They're suffocated. I can't see you. I had so much
Speaker 1: anxiety about it because back when I had them, breastfeeding
Speaker 1: was like what, like, what are you doing? You know
Speaker 1: what's crazy? I feel like the reason why it's so
Speaker 1: jarring for people is because we're taught from such a
Speaker 1: young age that our bodies are meant to be sexualized.
Speaker 1: Where you bring up a great point, because my whole
Speaker 1: career is based off of being sexy, and my breasts
Speaker 1: have been the forefront of many magazine covers. So then
Speaker 1: to flip to my baby is they're sucking on them.
Speaker 1: I think that people just had to like switch their minds.
Speaker 1: But they are multi purposeful like and I think there's
Speaker 1: so many new mommies out there who are agonizing over
Speaker 1: what they should and shouldn't be doing. Jada, You've felt
Speaker 1: to immensely, So what are some of the tools that
Speaker 1: you've used in order to combat so much of that
Speaker 1: feeling of anxiousness and anxiety around mommy shaming For me
Speaker 1: looking at how my children were being affected, That's what counts.
Speaker 1: When people are like, oh my god, I can't believe
Speaker 1: you shaved Willow's head, if they could have seen this
Speaker 1: child's expression of freedom, looking at her hair falling to
Speaker 1: the ground. So me, as a mom looking at that,
Speaker 1: experiencing that with her, there is nothing that anyone could
Speaker 1: say to me to tell me that it was wrong
Speaker 1: that cleared on person. Because I was there, I was
Speaker 1: looking at her, I saw her face. I knew the
Speaker 1: journey that she and I took together to get to
Speaker 1: that point, and so it didn't really matter when anybody said.
Speaker 1: And that was such a powerfulness, Ashley. Have you ever
Speaker 1: been shamed by anybody that's close to you? Oh, definitely.
Speaker 1: I've definitely been shamed by close family members. In fact,
Speaker 1: it just happened right before Isaac turned three months old,
Speaker 1: and they said, I can't believe he's not sleep trained yet.
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Why are you ruining your life?
Speaker 1: It's just keep your comments to yourself. You know what.
Speaker 1: I never sleep trained. You certainly did not. I never
Speaker 1: sided I just because we were in so many different
Speaker 1: time zones all the time, you know, so if I
Speaker 1: was up, they were. But I got the same thing
Speaker 1: people like girl, What I appreciate is to have a
Speaker 1: conversation like the one we're having today. I would rather
Speaker 1: talk about what I can do to be a better mom.
Speaker 1: I don't want somebody coming at me or telling me
Speaker 1: what I need to do. I didn't know that sleep
Speaker 1: training was a thing. How do you sleep? It is
Speaker 1: a thing. I loved it, I I you know, I
Speaker 1: loved having my kids up with me. Actually remember this
Speaker 1: till this day. These kids they loved a mommy, you know.
Speaker 1: But I think it has a lot to do with
Speaker 1: the fact that we slept together all the time. When
Speaker 1: it comes to mom shaming, this mother of three gorgeous
Speaker 1: children has seen it all. Not only is Jessica Albat
Speaker 1: an actor, she's a business mogul who runs a wildly
Speaker 1: successful baby and beauty product company. Jesssa, hey, how old
Speaker 1: are your kids? Jessica, So, I have a nine year
Speaker 1: old and a twelve year old and he is My
Speaker 1: little one is too and he's not even trying to
Speaker 1: potty train. He does not care about it. No, thank you,
Speaker 1: I said, honey, you know because I make diapers that
Speaker 1: are cute with the patterns. And he's like no, no, no, nothing.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, you know other little kids your
Speaker 1: age and he was like, no, no, thank you. He
Speaker 1: likes to walk around naked. Both our boys. We we
Speaker 1: had a We had a real time potty train in them.
Speaker 1: It was very challenging, and I do remember family members
Speaker 1: being like, listen, these three. He needs to be out
Speaker 1: of diapers, you know, even and it didn't even know how. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to just take a weekend, had to just
Speaker 1: be like like every day. It's like you had a
Speaker 1: man doodoos by this time, have people been getting on
Speaker 1: your butt? Yes, yes, I think also because it's quarantine,
Speaker 1: so like, what a great time to potty train your kids?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what a great time to add another
Speaker 1: freaking stress on me. Thank you, Jessica. Let's look at
Speaker 1: these photos that caused some of the mom shamers that
Speaker 1: come out. Oh yeah. One woman commented, all, mg no
Speaker 1: that bottle you should be breastfeeding. What DNSc here me go, Ashley?
Speaker 1: You get shape from breastfeeding? Sha Wait no, now you
Speaker 1: have the other photo of me breastfeeding. They came for
Speaker 1: you didn't say, Oh wow, you're damned if you do.
Speaker 1: You're damned if you don't. Jessica, were you whipping it
Speaker 1: out in public? Also? Yeah, definitely out when we have to.
Speaker 1: I mean I fed him at Target. Also, I just
Speaker 1: needed to get out of the dang house. I was like,
Speaker 1: especially by the third one. Right, So, what would be
Speaker 1: some of your wisdom to women who want to be
Speaker 1: part of the social media world. They love sharing their
Speaker 1: kids because on the on the one hand, you would
Speaker 1: think we'll just stop posting pictures, right, but it's like
Speaker 1: it's such a part of culture. Now. This is what
Speaker 1: I always have to say mommy shamers are just mean
Speaker 1: girls who grew up to be mothers. True. I've had
Speaker 1: to do a lot of therapy, and certainly now that
Speaker 1: i'm I'm almost forty, I've come to this place where
Speaker 1: I realized that most people who have something to say,
Speaker 1: it's because they're so insecure, and it's more of like
Speaker 1: them being ashamed of themselves, them being overly critical, and
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, the natural reaction instant call other people
Speaker 1: apart for them to feel justified, for them to feel okay.
Speaker 1: You know, I know this other picture of you and
Speaker 1: your family cause some heat. That's just absolutely ludicrous that
Speaker 1: we're living in a day and age where health is politicized.
Speaker 1: Like my, my mind is blown. The comment was, what
Speaker 1: kind of person are you doing such an unhealthy thing
Speaker 1: to your child? That's child abuse. That's well, there you go,
Speaker 1: you're an ass. Moving on, one of our RTT favorites,
Speaker 1: Dr Romney is here to break this all down for us.
Speaker 1: She also has experienced mom shaming herself, and she's going
Speaker 1: to talk to us about why this occurs. This one's personal.
Speaker 1: I mean, having been there, it happens to my friends,
Speaker 1: to my patients. So many people I've known, and it's devastating.
Speaker 1: How have you personally been shamed? I watched my own mom,
Speaker 1: b Shane. I'm the child of immigrant parents. My mom
Speaker 1: would wear a star. You we already looked so foreign.
Speaker 1: So I watched that happen to my mom, so I
Speaker 1: was acutely aware of it. And my younger daughter, she's
Speaker 1: a bit of a pistol. She's just fierce. And I
Speaker 1: will never forget the day because I was working full
Speaker 1: time when when my girls were young, and I remember
Speaker 1: going to the school and she had been acting up
Speaker 1: a little bit, and another mother at the school takes
Speaker 1: me aside and says, you know why she's such a
Speaker 1: handful because you neglect her and you're never around. She
Speaker 1: sees all the other mothers here serving lunch and you're
Speaker 1: never here. Nice of you to show up. I was
Speaker 1: almost but I was like, no, not in front of
Speaker 1: the kids, but I was devastated. I went to the restroom.
Speaker 1: I was crying because she played on my own insecurity.
Speaker 1: I wasn't there all the time. I wasn't. But you
Speaker 1: have a career and you're a working woman and you provide.
Speaker 1: But it's still hard because Ashley Jessica, all of us
Speaker 1: you're being judged on your mom nows and the mom
Speaker 1: part feels primal, you know, like I can't get that
Speaker 1: one wrong. I could get professed so wrong, I could
Speaker 1: get psychologists wrong. I can't get mom wrong because it's primal.
Speaker 1: I remember my daughter said to me, why are you
Speaker 1: the only mommy that can't be here for all the
Speaker 1: special events? And she was like four years old, and
Speaker 1: I same thing. I fell apart. It hurts, man, it
Speaker 1: really really hurts. It's so weird that we feel like
Speaker 1: we have to choose between our professional ambitions and our
Speaker 1: desire to have a personal life and to have a family.
Speaker 1: It's not fair. And I feel like super working mothers
Speaker 1: they may feel like they don't know their children that
Speaker 1: well because they're not there. I agree, so they feel
Speaker 1: like they need some input, they need some invite and guidance.
Speaker 1: But don't you think nothing could be farther from the truth, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, you worked, I worked, Jessica works, Ashley's worked.
Speaker 1: I mean the fact is you know your child. I
Speaker 1: am a true believer in this mystical connection you've got
Speaker 1: with your child. I don't think being out of the
Speaker 1: house affects that boom. I just want everybody to know
Speaker 1: I got shamed for being a working mom and keeping
Speaker 1: my kids with me. I did for homeschooling them so
Speaker 1: that they could actually travel with me. I had my
Speaker 1: mother come with me, and I got the business for
Speaker 1: school to the kids so that they could actually be
Speaker 1: with me. So you know, once again, you can't win.
Speaker 1: Every one of us has mom shamed. Let's I've done it,
Speaker 1: You've done all done. Okay, maybe I've judged someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't work out of the house exactly. The fact is
Speaker 1: we've got to stop, and we've got to pay attention
Speaker 1: and look at every mother through a lens of compassion.
Speaker 1: Is there any such thing as like healthy criticism, you know,
Speaker 1: constructive criticism around mother You know what, I call it
Speaker 1: empathic feedback. If you see a mother struggling, go up
Speaker 1: to them. You know what, the first thing you say
Speaker 1: to them, is there anything I can do to help?
Speaker 1: How can I help? You want to talk? And if
Speaker 1: you set a comfortable tone, people will talk and they
Speaker 1: might say, you know, we are struggling a little bit.
Speaker 1: And then you set the pace to actually allow someone
Speaker 1: to open up and not feel like they're going to
Speaker 1: be attacked. But I think mothers are terrified right now.
Speaker 1: They put even a comment on social media and say,
Speaker 1: can anyone help me out? I'm struggling with da dada boom.
Speaker 1: The people are going to get in there and say, well,
Speaker 1: you're doing this wrong. But that's the insecurity and now
Speaker 1: we're in a pandemic. So the insecurity paired with the uncertainty,
Speaker 1: it is such a volatile combination because everyone's insecure now,
Speaker 1: and when people are insecured, they lash out. Never before
Speaker 1: can I say as a psychologist that I've seen that
Speaker 1: the entire population is insecure because everything so uncertain, and
Speaker 1: moms are getting the worst of it. Yes, I do
Speaker 1: feel really isolated and things do feel magnified, and I
Speaker 1: just think that it's because everybody is that home on
Speaker 1: their phones, just feeling like everybody else needs some advice
Speaker 1: from them about how to be a better mother. And
Speaker 1: it's not just mom shaming moms. It's stranger shaming moms.
Speaker 1: It's pediatricians shaming mom is, teachers, you name it. Even
Speaker 1: my damn ob he told me, he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you really shouldn't be I'm gaining more than the twenty
Speaker 1: five pounds, you know, for your entire pregnancy, And I
Speaker 1: was like, I kind of gained that in my first
Speaker 1: trime master with all three. So that's life, that's me.
Speaker 1: That's the way my body carries these babies. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: shame just like continue, Ashley, you said you had a
Speaker 1: question for the doctor. Oh I do. Okay, So this
Speaker 1: isn't really around mommy shaming, but I'm sure I'm going
Speaker 1: to get mom shamed for asking it. So now that
Speaker 1: I have Isaac sleep trained, I put him down at
Speaker 1: eight and I go to sleep. But usually in the
Speaker 1: hours between twelve thirty and about four o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: I have what my husband is calling these night terrors.
Speaker 1: And in my sleep, I am hun ting for my child,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, where is Isaac? Where is he? And
Speaker 1: I'm looking under the bed, I'm flipping my husband upside down,
Speaker 1: I'm turning on the lights. That it's happening almost every
Speaker 1: single night. What is that? Oh? Actually, it's actually I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you, it's so beautiful to hear you say this,
Speaker 1: because it's your body doing exactly what your body is
Speaker 1: supposed to do. And so here you are in that
Speaker 1: first year, maybe in the first two years you have
Speaker 1: a baby, your cortisol levels are higher. For new moms.
Speaker 1: It makes them more alert, especially in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night. So your cortisol is that the middle of
Speaker 1: the night, where is he? Where is it? Great? I'm
Speaker 1: going to go back to sleep. But new moms don't
Speaker 1: sleep through the night because that is a built in
Speaker 1: biological alertness. It's your body being absolutely beautiful. It's really
Speaker 1: nice to know that I'm not alone and I'm normal,
Speaker 1: because I really thought there was something chemically wrong with me.
Speaker 1: Not in fact, there is something that's chemically changed in you,
Speaker 1: and it's chemically right. My kids are grown and I
Speaker 1: still have where all spaces. Alright, girl, alright, I wake
Speaker 1: up is like thirty seconds to one minute before my
Speaker 1: kids wake up from either a nightmare or they're going
Speaker 1: to the bathroom. And I tell Cash did you hear that?
Speaker 1: And every time he's like, there's nothing, there's it's in
Speaker 1: your head. Now I spy on them. Now I have
Speaker 1: cameras in all their rooms, so I actually can really
Speaker 1: was that noise actually justify what the heck is going on?
Speaker 1: But I really thought I was losing it until I
Speaker 1: started surveilling them. Are you ever going to take the
Speaker 1: cameras out of their room. Honor was like, Mom, you
Speaker 1: know I'm twelve now, like, don't you think it's awkward?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, you shouldn't be doing anything. You
Speaker 1: know in your bedroom. You have a whole closet to
Speaker 1: dress in, and you have your bathroom for your private time,
Speaker 1: and so what are you doing in your room? What
Speaker 1: you think You're gonna sneak somebody in? Somehow I'm still
Speaker 1: getting away with it, but I think this might be
Speaker 1: the last year, all right? Our t T family send
Speaker 1: in some questions. So many moms in our RTT family
Speaker 1: wanted to share their mom shaming situations and get some advice.
Speaker 1: This is joy live in Richmond, Virginia. My son loves
Speaker 1: to wear his hair naturally in free form dreadlocks. My
Speaker 1: black friends, however, will mention things like, girl, what you're
Speaker 1: gonna get his hair done? It makes me feel like
Speaker 1: I'm literally not living up to the standards as a
Speaker 1: black mom. How do I let my friends know that
Speaker 1: telling me what to do with my son's hair is
Speaker 1: actually a form of mom shaming. This black hair situation
Speaker 1: is real. I mean, it's a problem. When we talk
Speaker 1: about Blue Ivy, Beyonce's child and how she's been shamed
Speaker 1: for her natural hair. When we talk about gabs daughter
Speaker 1: who's been shamed for her natural hair, Willow, Yes, air
Speaker 1: is a button for us. Every single Black woman that
Speaker 1: I know has an a wound somewhere in their childhood
Speaker 1: about their hair and about what someone said about their hair. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: this reflects an insecurity that was foisted onto the Black
Speaker 1: community by an existing system of oppression. She has to
Speaker 1: sort of channel that inner leader and say, we have
Speaker 1: got to as black mothers, stop destroying each other. And
Speaker 1: when you're talking about my son's hair, you're actually, this
Speaker 1: is a bigger problem with our community. Would you like
Speaker 1: to have that conversation with ladies? Yes? Yes, and we
Speaker 1: should talk about that. And that's what I love you.
Speaker 1: It's like, and it's a worthy conversation had because if
Speaker 1: that is your group of friends, it's like, let's really
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this why my son's hair
Speaker 1: triggers you, and let me explain to you why it's
Speaker 1: important for me to allow him to have the hair
Speaker 1: that he wants, and just to have a conversation with
Speaker 1: your group of friends, and I bet you it'll get
Speaker 1: smoothed outcause when we get to the real and you
Speaker 1: gotta really look exactly yourself and why that triggers you,
Speaker 1: then you're gonna really think about if you need to
Speaker 1: be putting that on that young child. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: they're gonna go on over there and have a seat.
Speaker 1: So that's question. Hello, ladies, I'm Christina from Tuskey, Alabama.
Speaker 1: I'm a past his wife and homeschooling mom of five
Speaker 1: awesome kids. I get mom shamed when I go out
Speaker 1: in public without my husband. I've heard all kinds of
Speaker 1: questions like do you all even use birth control? Or
Speaker 1: are all those kids yours? So my question for you
Speaker 1: all today is what makes someone else bold enough to
Speaker 1: criticize your life choices as a parent. Yeah, I'm so
Speaker 1: dumb right now, me too, Like I feel like, mind
Speaker 1: your own few cubic feet of space. But you know, Gammy,
Speaker 1: there's a bigger conversation here. No one would have said
Speaker 1: this to a white woman now five child dren. That
Speaker 1: is such an inappropriate question. But all I want to
Speaker 1: say to her is don't engage. You hold your head
Speaker 1: high like a queen, and you keep walking because they
Speaker 1: don't deserve your engagement because that's an insult. So insults
Speaker 1: really don't bear response. People see black mothers and they
Speaker 1: shame them more than any other group. I mean, by
Speaker 1: a landslide. That's where we often see some of the
Speaker 1: most poisonous mom shaming when it's black and brown moms,
Speaker 1: especially when you talk to the moms of black sons. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you really hit it. I got shamed a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: for a willow. But Jaden was like, yes, that was hard.
Speaker 1: You think people shamed you more for Jaden than for me.
Speaker 1: I think as Jaden got older, you know, when he
Speaker 1: did the Louis Vatton Yeah, you know, and then he
Speaker 1: isn't what people consider your typical black man, that's right,
Speaker 1: which is like, what is that supposed to be supposed
Speaker 1: to be stagging to his knee? Even in the community,
Speaker 1: we creates their you'll type around. You know, it's something
Speaker 1: that we as a community really have to learn how
Speaker 1: to let go, let go of. I know that people
Speaker 1: in you know, I felt like it's dangerous. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you cannot afford to raise your children this way because
Speaker 1: it's dangerous. And if you know what it's like to
Speaker 1: be a black or brown person in this world, you
Speaker 1: are doing your kids a disservice. I understood where that
Speaker 1: fear came from. But I also understood from having been
Speaker 1: on the streets and having had been not your conventional
Speaker 1: black girl in the streets of Baltimore. I knew that
Speaker 1: self confidence. That is what helped me. Did you see,
Speaker 1: We're back to the getting rid of the insecurity that
Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter black, brown, or white. It's about that.
Speaker 1: And it is harder for a black woman to hold
Speaker 1: that space of confidence and security than it is others.
Speaker 1: So that is a struggle that people are going to
Speaker 1: have even more, which is going to pack their parenting
Speaker 1: and make them more vulnerable to the mom shame. Absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've got Veronica from Indio, California. Hi Veronica, Hi thread
Speaker 1: table fam. Nice to see you all continuously being mom
Speaker 1: shane for being a career woman while my husband stays
Speaker 1: home and takes care of our four children. So I'm
Speaker 1: a college professor and this requires me to travel a lot,
Speaker 1: and I miss a lot of precious moments during that time.
Speaker 1: People mom shamy and tell me they can't travel because
Speaker 1: they have to put their children first. I also got
Speaker 1: criticized for pursuing my doctorate degree. I was told I
Speaker 1: was too ambitious and that I should be focusing on
Speaker 1: my family. So my problem is my husband continues to
Speaker 1: be praised for being a stay at home dad, and
Speaker 1: I continue to be shamed for being the breadwinner. So
Speaker 1: what do I say to the shamers? First of all,
Speaker 1: I feel you're Veronica because I'm a college professor. To
Speaker 1: here's the thing, Veronica, they're threatened. It goes by to
Speaker 1: this insecurity. You are triggering their insecurities. That's about them.
Speaker 1: You're going out there and living fully. Don't make their
Speaker 1: insecurity your problem. Think of what you're doing. You are
Speaker 1: modeling for your children and deeply educated woman who was
Speaker 1: pursuing her dreams and showing them that men can be caregivers.
Speaker 1: So haters are gonna be hater. Shamers are gonna be shamers.
Speaker 1: You are never going to convert them, okay, but instead
Speaker 1: put forth the power and the beauty of your story
Speaker 1: and what you and your husband have created with your kids.
Speaker 1: I think it's magnificent, Dr Veronica, and I really tip
Speaker 1: my hat to what you've done. It's it's the path
Speaker 1: you're setting that future women scholars will follow. You can
Speaker 1: let those shamers know that too. Yeah, I didn't think
Speaker 1: you're going to make me cry. Thank you, Veronica. Keep
Speaker 1: up the doctor, Gangster. That's right by The very talented
Speaker 1: country music star Marion Morris was in the news recently
Speaker 1: for being mom shamed. We caught up to a right
Speaker 1: after she won the a C. M Award for Best
Speaker 1: Female Performer of the Year. She wanted to share her
Speaker 1: very personal story with the Red Table. So the first
Speaker 1: vout of social mom shaving I dealt with was with
Speaker 1: my son shortly after he was born. It was fourth
Speaker 1: of July and I was at the lake with my
Speaker 1: family and I had Hayes, my son, on an inflatable
Speaker 1: golf cart float and it was tied to the dock,
Speaker 1: was very shallow, and I didn't have a baby life
Speaker 1: vest on him. So immediately once I posted it, every
Speaker 1: comment was like, why don't you have a life vest
Speaker 1: on him? He could easily fall out of your arms,
Speaker 1: off the float into the water. I just find it
Speaker 1: really unfortunate because we're all trying to do our best,
Speaker 1: we all love our babies, and so it feels like
Speaker 1: a bigger betrayal when it's a mom that's shaming another
Speaker 1: mother because they've in there too. That was a good
Speaker 1: point that it's not like a betrayale. Mom shaming is
Speaker 1: actually mom gas lighting. Yeah, and what does that do
Speaker 1: that leaves mom's feeling like they're losing their minds? You know,
Speaker 1: we actually take away the reality. You're not doing that right.
Speaker 1: He should be going on this routine, he should be
Speaker 1: going to sleep this time, he should be eating this.
Speaker 1: You're like, maybe they're right. When someone says these things
Speaker 1: to you, it's stuff. They're stealing your reality, They're stealing
Speaker 1: your sense of self. Don't let them take it. One
Speaker 1: of the things that really that really struck home for me,
Speaker 1: not necessarily with mom shaming, but just shame in general.
Speaker 1: How I've used that in the past, and it's just
Speaker 1: making me look at myself and recognize the work that
Speaker 1: I need to do on myself. Because I didn't even
Speaker 1: realize that it was coming from a place of my
Speaker 1: own insecurity, that this was so wonderful to be able
Speaker 1: to have this conversation. Do you have any final words
Speaker 1: before we go? You taught all of us to just
Speaker 1: do it the way you want to do it, So
Speaker 1: I am totally following your lead here A. Congratulations on
Speaker 1: being a new mom. Thank you, Jessica. I know that
Speaker 1: l A's fineness and started I binge the last season
Speaker 1: when it was great. We're gonna be binging this season.
Speaker 1: We can't wait. You Dr Rominey. We always love having you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. You ladies, keep being the
Speaker 1: fabulous women warriors that you are, and we can't wait
Speaker 1: to actually have both of you here at this table
Speaker 1: at some point. Bye bye. What would you do if
Speaker 1: I got a fatal or what would you do? Like? No, absolutely,
Speaker 1: but what if it was cute? Like what if it
Speaker 1: was like nothing is gonna be cute? Tattooed on your
Speaker 1: face at the end of the day, here's the truth.
Speaker 1: You've grown as hop Yeah, it wouldn't even matter how
Speaker 1: I felt. Don't try it. To join the Red Table
Speaker 1: Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow
Speaker 1: us at facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast
Speaker 1: produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.