Speaker 1: Connection between people is really a powerful force, whether it's
Speaker 1: a force for winning basketball games or a force for
Speaker 1: changing society. Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritune Day,
Speaker 1: a podcast that reimagine citizen as a verb, not a
Speaker 1: legal status. This season is all about how we practice democracy,
Speaker 1: what can we get rid of, what can we invent,
Speaker 1: and how do we change the culture of democracy itself.
Speaker 1: We're leaving the theoretical clouds and hitting the ground with
Speaker 1: inspiring examples of people and institutions that are showing us
Speaker 1: new ways to govern ourselves. You know, since high school,
Speaker 1: athletics have not been a driving force in my life,
Speaker 1: not nearly as much as technology or politics. But as
Speaker 1: a child, your boy was pretty into sports. We're talking
Speaker 1: youth soccer, single season experiments in cross country, ouched and last,
Speaker 1: swimming even shorter, and wrestling well that's a funny story
Speaker 1: for another day. But I spent years on the track
Speaker 1: and field team, very consistent. Shout out to coach Gold.
Speaker 1: Once I was out of school, though, I drifted from
Speaker 1: playing or even watching sports outside of championship games and
Speaker 1: major events like the World Cup. I told myself I
Speaker 1: was too busy for it and that it wasn't super
Speaker 1: important to me. Instead, I'd obsess over to YouTube videos
Speaker 1: comparing the latest electric vehicles or home studio setups, and
Speaker 1: I'd click between the Washington Posts and the New York
Speaker 1: Times and a thousand tweets in an attempt to read
Speaker 1: all the articles on all the politics. But I've missed
Speaker 1: being part of a team, the camaraderie, shared victory, shared losses,
Speaker 1: fans doing the wave in the stands poorly. More than
Speaker 1: the physicality of sports, I miss and respect its power
Speaker 1: to help us consist instantly show up for something, to
Speaker 1: build with others through relationships, and to use power for
Speaker 1: a collective self interest victory playing as a team. I
Speaker 1: missed that sports can provide a literal arena for us
Speaker 1: to practice. How to Citizen, Yeah, I'm talking about practice.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, we're talking about practice now. The conversation
Speaker 1: you're about to hear happen because of a collaboration between
Speaker 1: this podcast How to Citizen and some folks in the NCAA,
Speaker 1: the National Collegiate Athletics Association, who saw that connection between
Speaker 1: athletics and citizening. College basketball coach Eric Revenue was fired
Speaker 1: up after police killed George Floyd in twenty twenty, and
Speaker 1: he wanted to do more to empower his players, so
Speaker 1: we helped to lead an effort that became known as
Speaker 1: the All Vote, No Play Pledge, where athletics take Election
Speaker 1: Day off from practice or games so players can vote
Speaker 1: and volunteer. Coach Rev later teamed up with designer and
Speaker 1: educator Lisa K. Solomon of the Stanford d School, who
Speaker 1: was also designing better ways to get young people engaged
Speaker 1: in voting and civics more broadly, and we at How
Speaker 1: the Citizen joined these two in their efforts to train
Speaker 1: athletes to become active citizens. Our executive producer and my wife, Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: led the collaboration on behalf of How the Citizen, and
Speaker 1: we've developed a pilot program and curriculum with NC double
Speaker 1: A coaches to translate their athletic coaching into citizen coaching.
Speaker 1: So what does that backstory have to do with Golden
Speaker 1: State Warriors coach Steve Kerr being in this episode title, Well,
Speaker 1: Coach Rev and Lisa Kay brought a group together let's
Speaker 1: call him a team to discuss why teaching civic culture
Speaker 1: and citizening is vital for student athlete programs. The discussion
Speaker 1: was hosted by D one Ticker, creators of the most
Speaker 1: popular newsletter for college sports administrators, and they asked me
Speaker 1: to model rated after what I heard. I know I
Speaker 1: had to run tell you, and instead of telling you
Speaker 1: about it, I figured I just let you hear it directly,
Speaker 1: So you're gonna hear from three people BLUs me. Doctor
Speaker 1: Kensea Gunter is a clinical and sports psychologist and mental
Speaker 1: health expert who works with student and professional athletes. Jamie
Speaker 1: Zaninovich is the Deputy Commissioner and COO of the PAC
Speaker 1: twelve Conference, the Western US conference representing over twenty sports
Speaker 1: at the collegiate D one level. And Steve Kerr is
Speaker 1: Steve Kerr. Kerk shot from and that's my story in
Speaker 1: and I'm sticking to it. I mean, head coach of
Speaker 1: the NBA championship winning Golden State Warriors. He's won nine titles,
Speaker 1: five as a player and four coaching the Warriors. As important, though,
Speaker 1: is how he's used his platform repeatedly to stand up
Speaker 1: for a future free of avoidable, nonsensical and deadly gun violence.
Speaker 1: You've probably heard him going off in his press conferences.
Speaker 1: I'm tired, I'm so tired of getting up here and
Speaker 1: offering condolences too, to the devastated families that are out there.
Speaker 1: I'm so tired of the excuse me, I'm sorry. I'm
Speaker 1: tired of the moments of silence. Enough. There's fifty Senators
Speaker 1: right now who refused to vote on HR eight, which
Speaker 1: is a background check rule that the House passed a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. It's been sitting there for two years,
Speaker 1: and there's a reason they won't vote on it to
Speaker 1: hold on to power. Coach Kerr and I both lost
Speaker 1: our fathers to gun violence, so his way of showing
Speaker 1: up made it more personal, more emotional, more meaningful for
Speaker 1: me to take part in the conversation too. So Doctor Kinson,
Speaker 1: Gunter Jamie Zaninovich, and Coach Kerr on the trinsic connection
Speaker 1: between sports and citizening after this break, what's up? I
Speaker 1: am honored to be in this Brady bunch box. This
Speaker 1: is like the opening of a wonderful joke. A sports psychologist,
Speaker 1: a league commissioner, and a professional head coach walk into
Speaker 1: a zoom room to have a conversation about athletics, civics,
Speaker 1: and how to make teammates well beyond the field, the pool,
Speaker 1: the arena, but in our society at large, building America's
Speaker 1: teammates this idea of the principles of our podcast, that
Speaker 1: we show up and participate, invest in relationships with ourselves
Speaker 1: others in the planet, understand our power and how to
Speaker 1: flex it, and doing that for our collective self interest,
Speaker 1: not just our individual self interest. That is prealigned with
Speaker 1: the best of athletics, the best of coaching. Was itian
Speaker 1: just about physical performance, it's about team performance, it's about
Speaker 1: collective benefit. It's about strength not just through force. So
Speaker 1: thank the three of you for making this time to
Speaker 1: be here today, and I want to start with each
Speaker 1: of you one of the time understanding why you're here.
Speaker 1: What do you see as the alignment between athletics and civics,
Speaker 1: and what has brought to you to this conversation today.
Speaker 1: Doctor KENSA Gunter, let's go, well, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Barren to today. It's a pleasure to be a part
Speaker 1: of this conversation. And I'll just jump right in to
Speaker 1: answer your question by trade. I am a clinical and
Speaker 1: sports psychologist, and when you ask that question about what
Speaker 1: is the intersection between civics and why is it important
Speaker 1: to athletics, I think because at the root of who
Speaker 1: is participating in both Our humans are people, right, and
Speaker 1: so thinking about how we can engage and create environments
Speaker 1: where there's a sense of belonging to use your word,
Speaker 1: where there's the focus on the collective, I think that's
Speaker 1: really important for us to think about. In sport historically
Speaker 1: has been used as a platform by many to advocate
Speaker 1: for issues around justice and injustice and equity, and I
Speaker 1: think it's one of those rare places in society where
Speaker 1: we see the value of team, we see the ben
Speaker 1: a fit of coming together, and if we can take
Speaker 1: the lessons that we learn in athletics and apply them
Speaker 1: to the world at large, I think that really can
Speaker 1: create again one of those environments where, like you said,
Speaker 1: we're all teammates for one another. And so I think
Speaker 1: really looking at the way in which the people who
Speaker 1: participate in athletics and sports can teach us lessons about
Speaker 1: how to participate and how to citizen is really a
Speaker 1: huge place where that comes together and there's benefits to
Speaker 1: our mental, emotional, and collective wellness when we think about
Speaker 1: how we do this thing together again, whether it's civics
Speaker 1: or whether it's sports, it's how we do life together,
Speaker 1: and that I think is the bridge that connects the two.
Speaker 1: How we do life together. That's a bumper sticker. That's
Speaker 1: a call to action right there. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: doctor A Deputy Commissioner Jamie Zaninovich, can you answer the
Speaker 1: same question, why are you here and what are you
Speaker 1: seeing as a connection between athletics and civics? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, thanks for having me. It's humbled to
Speaker 1: be a part of this group for sure, and inspired
Speaker 1: by your words and doctor Gunter's words. Listen, I think
Speaker 1: there's two things for me. I've worked in college athletics
Speaker 1: my whole life. I now work at the Pac twelve.
Speaker 1: The reason I work in college athletics is because it
Speaker 1: is about this co curricular activity, right, It's really about
Speaker 1: what young people who come to us when they're eighteen
Speaker 1: years old and spend four or five, sometimes six years
Speaker 1: with us, how they can develop emotionally, socially, in other words, otherwise,
Speaker 1: not just through the classroom, but in the fields of play,
Speaker 1: in the swimming pool, on the track. The lessons that
Speaker 1: they can learn being part of these teams, achieving, failing, struggling,
Speaker 1: learning how to activate their voice, their passion and be
Speaker 1: a teammate and be a citizen. I think it's incredibly powerful,
Speaker 1: and as a result, you create these dynamics within these teams.
Speaker 1: With the profile and the popularity now of college athletics,
Speaker 1: where these student athletes now have incredible platforms and they
Speaker 1: in the PAC twelve we encourage them to activate those platforms.
Speaker 1: And we've seen that sort of across many sports and
Speaker 1: our seven thousand athletes for years. You Know. The other
Speaker 1: thing I would say is I'm very to be part
Speaker 1: of the PAC twelve. We have a long tradition of
Speaker 1: having game changers, right. You go back to Arthur Ashe,
Speaker 1: you go back to Jackie Robinson. We have had athletes
Speaker 1: in our conference that have been brave and forward thinking
Speaker 1: and have had the courage to help change society through
Speaker 1: their sport. And that's something that I think is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1: I think you've seen sport change society in so many
Speaker 1: ways over time, and we should not lose that now
Speaker 1: more than ever, with the hope that we need to
Speaker 1: give the next generation, we all have a responsibility to
Speaker 1: leverage what we do in my case and Steve's case
Speaker 1: and others in sport to help change society or what
Speaker 1: is our impact, What is our real legacy? Yeah, that
Speaker 1: sport goes so much farther than just sport. We're having
Speaker 1: this conversation about Serena Williams right now collectively, and that's
Speaker 1: not just about tennis, right, It's about representation, power of health, equity,
Speaker 1: so many different things connected to that tennis court. But
Speaker 1: well beyond coach Steve Kerr in the house, man, I've
Speaker 1: been trying to stay calm this whole time. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be very professional. Yeah, we got to doctor the commissioner. Man.
Speaker 1: Come on now, hello, welcome, Thanks for having me, thank
Speaker 1: you for being had with us here. And the same
Speaker 1: question to you, what brings you here and what do
Speaker 1: you see as the connection between athletics and cities? Well,
Speaker 1: I may have another bumper stick sticker for you. You know,
Speaker 1: I played for a couple of amazing coaches. Actually I
Speaker 1: played for like five amazing coaches, but two of them
Speaker 1: stand out in particular in terms of their ability to
Speaker 1: connect life and basketball. And Phil Jackson used to have
Speaker 1: a great saying he would tell us in Chicago. He said,
Speaker 1: life is a metaphor for basketball, and basketball as a
Speaker 1: metaphor for life. And I really connected to that, because
Speaker 1: it's amazing how true that is. You know, when you're
Speaker 1: on a really good team and you feel that sense
Speaker 1: of community and you feel that connection, the team's better.
Speaker 1: And when you translate that to life and you witness
Speaker 1: something really beautiful, whether it's a classroom of students who
Speaker 1: are really interactive and learning and from each other and
Speaker 1: teaching each other and enjoying each other's company, or maybe
Speaker 1: a thriving business or a panel of people talking and
Speaker 1: really connecting, you can feel that a connection between people
Speaker 1: is really a powerful force. Whether it's a force for
Speaker 1: winning basketball games or a force for changing society, it's
Speaker 1: that connection, that teamwork that ultimately creates what you're looking for.
Speaker 1: So I think Phil was right. You know, basketball really
Speaker 1: is a metaphor for life and for anybody who out
Speaker 1: there who is actually coaching. One of the lessons that
Speaker 1: I've really learned is that engaging your athletes in things
Speaker 1: like civic responsibility is not just important in terms of
Speaker 1: making the world a better place, but it's a pretty
Speaker 1: powerful tool to make the team better too. Civics can
Speaker 1: mean a lot of things, and one of pet peeves
Speaker 1: is that it sometimes is whittled down solely to voting.
Speaker 1: Voting is critical and essential, and so that's a part
Speaker 1: of the puzzle. It also includes many other things, and
Speaker 1: so inclusive of voting for anyone. And feel free to
Speaker 1: cross talk with each other as you hear something that
Speaker 1: may resonate from someone else. What have you seen in
Speaker 1: your worlds of athletics, whether it's students who are your patients,
Speaker 1: they're in your leagues, they're adults on your team right
Speaker 1: now or in their journey to get to you to
Speaker 1: where you are right now. What type of civic engagement,
Speaker 1: what type of citizening are you seeing that it's deeply
Speaker 1: connected to the world of athletics. Anybody can jump in first.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I'll start. I'll go back to
Speaker 1: twenty twenty in our conference, and what a dynamic time
Speaker 1: after George Floyd headed to a pandemic. And one of
Speaker 1: the things I think that was pretty incredible and dynamic
Speaker 1: that we saw in the PAC twelve was just how
Speaker 1: these young people, these eighteen to twenty one year olds
Speaker 1: that are so incredible on the courts and also sort
Speaker 1: of leadership roles, were inspiring We adults, right, it's really
Speaker 1: not their job, but they were really grabbing their head coaches,
Speaker 1: grabbing their assistant coaches and saying, hey, there's a march
Speaker 1: in Boulder tonight. Hey there's a march in Berkeley tonight.
Speaker 1: We're going get the team together. Let's wear our stuff.
Speaker 1: To Steve's point, this is going to be a team
Speaker 1: bonding exercise because it's going to be something that we
Speaker 1: can do together that's going to have an impact on
Speaker 1: something much bigger than all of us. It was incredibly
Speaker 1: emotional because it really was sort of going back to
Speaker 1: some of the real impactful sort of civil rights history
Speaker 1: in this country where the young people were taking it
Speaker 1: upon themselves, which again they shouldn't have to do, but
Speaker 1: they were so inspired by their energy, and you know,
Speaker 1: these athletes have this unique ability to, like Steve said,
Speaker 1: bring people together and to lead as a collective in
Speaker 1: a way that was really really powerful. So that's just
Speaker 1: one thing that I remember from a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and that's continued. I think we're pretty proud of our
Speaker 1: programs in the Pact twelve that that activity is not
Speaker 1: alt thanks to people like Coach Revenue and others. Naturally,
Speaker 1: they've reminded everyone how to citizen that this should be
Speaker 1: core to team building exercises and otherwise. So for me,
Speaker 1: that was one thing that really kind of inspired me, honestly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. I was trying to think through kind
Speaker 1: of how I've seen a position, how I've seen this
Speaker 1: civics and this activism, if you will, outside of voting,
Speaker 1: And what comes to mind for me is the power
Speaker 1: of sharing your story as a way of humanizing people. Right.
Speaker 1: And we talk about understanding our power and understanding the
Speaker 1: systems that we're in, but I also think a huge
Speaker 1: piece of civics is trying to understand the people that
Speaker 1: we're living alongside, right, and viewing them not just in
Speaker 1: the context of what they do or what platform they
Speaker 1: may hold. I really feel like trying to see them
Speaker 1: as the people that they are, whether it's humanizing, this
Speaker 1: conversation about civics humanizing the conversation about voting. Voting is
Speaker 1: not just about going to the poll, but those votes
Speaker 1: that you cast have very real implications for the lived
Speaker 1: experience of people beyond that moment. And so as I
Speaker 1: think about athletes who have worn certain phrases on the
Speaker 1: back of their jerseys, if I think about the single
Speaker 1: site experience and the bubble experience. If I think about
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter being written on the court for the
Speaker 1: w NBA seasons, If I think about the ways in
Speaker 1: which based in Atlanta, the Atlanta Dream were really instrumental
Speaker 1: in one of our Congress votes here a few years ago,
Speaker 1: right thinking about Reverend one up, And if I think
Speaker 1: about the way in which people have activated in that
Speaker 1: way but also demon strated activism by sharing more of
Speaker 1: their story so that you get to know more of
Speaker 1: who they are. And for me, again, the mental health
Speaker 1: story has been one that's been really powerful. So I think, yes,
Speaker 1: action around issues that are important, but also sharing more
Speaker 1: of our story, humanizing us as people understanding the collective,
Speaker 1: but also understanding the people that make up that collective.
Speaker 1: I think that to me feels like a huge element
Speaker 1: of the civics conversation. That's a really powerful reminded doctor
Speaker 1: the humanity piece. I think you know, as much as
Speaker 1: I can pick at this idea that it's more than
Speaker 1: just voting. I also appreciate you reminding us it doesn't
Speaker 1: always have to be kind of in the street activism either.
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of us feel pressure when
Speaker 1: we hear like participating your civic community and get involved.
Speaker 1: It's like do I have to go on a march,
Speaker 1: am I getting petition signed? And it can also be
Speaker 1: from the mental health perspective. I'm thinking of some own
Speaker 1: biles and the kind of leadership that it takes as
Speaker 1: a high performance person to say I'm not down to
Speaker 1: perform right now. And here's some of why health exactly
Speaker 1: exactly and so not just performance right remind you there's
Speaker 1: a person in there that we need to privilege and
Speaker 1: value and honor honor in the person there. Coach Kur,
Speaker 1: do you have anything to add in terms of some
Speaker 1: things you've seen as how people are showing up more
Speaker 1: actively in their civic lives. Yeah, I'm really struck by
Speaker 1: what doctor Gunter talked about in terms of just being
Speaker 1: human and being present. For so many athletes that they're
Speaker 1: in the limelight, and you know, they want to make
Speaker 1: sure they're using their name, using their words for a
Speaker 1: good cause, but sometimes it's just being there listening. And
Speaker 1: I had a really amazing experience with Steph and Clay
Speaker 1: about quick Explainer Tune day for anyone who's not a
Speaker 1: basketball nerd. Steph Curry and Clay Thompson are NBA players.
Speaker 1: They played for Coach Curse team the Golden State Warriors,
Speaker 1: and they're really really good at basketball and apparently citizening
Speaker 1: amazing experience with Steph and Clay about three years ago.
Speaker 1: It was just before the pandemic. And I do some
Speaker 1: work with gun violence prevention and I have a good
Speaker 1: friend in Oakland and Mike McBride, he's a pastor who
Speaker 1: does amazing work, and I invited Steph and Clay to
Speaker 1: come with me to one of the meetings that Pastor
Speaker 1: McBride has every month in Oakland. And it was part
Speaker 1: of this gun violence prevention program where everybody involved in
Speaker 1: that community in Oakland, whether it's police, social workers, the mayor,
Speaker 1: mayor Livy schaff was their pastors, gang members, everybody gathered
Speaker 1: for this roundtable discussion that actually helped to limit gun
Speaker 1: violence in Oakland. Really powerful program. Steph and Clay just came.
Speaker 1: It didn't take part. They just observed and to watch
Speaker 1: all of the people in that room see the look
Speaker 1: on their face and for them to know that man
Speaker 1: Steph and Clay her warriors, like these guys care, they
Speaker 1: care about us. It was really powerful. There were no
Speaker 1: cameras there. Nobody ever knew Steph and Clay were there,
Speaker 1: So this wasn't about you know, some headline or like
Speaker 1: showing who they was, just humanity and just being there
Speaker 1: for people in the community who are either victims of
Speaker 1: gun violence or people trying to limit gun violence. And
Speaker 1: it was it was a really great reminder to me
Speaker 1: of what doctor Gunter just mentioned. Just the humanity piece,
Speaker 1: just connecting with your fellow human being, now powerful that
Speaker 1: can be, especially for people who have that type of
Speaker 1: power that you know Steph and Clay do, I mean
Speaker 1: people in the limelight. They can really impact people just
Speaker 1: by being there. But really we all can, you know,
Speaker 1: just showing humanity to each other is just so so
Speaker 1: crucial to anything that we're talking about. The willingness to
Speaker 1: kind of learn in public and use the power of
Speaker 1: your presence on behalf of someone, those combined are are
Speaker 1: really powerful. I think. I know, I feel a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure in the current moments, whether it's climate related,
Speaker 1: race related politics, electoral politics, related LGBTQ issues, there's a
Speaker 1: list that we often feel pressure to have a statement ready,
Speaker 1: you know, what is your stance on how do you
Speaker 1: feel about this position? And it's okay not to know,
Speaker 1: you know, and to learn having the answers isn't the
Speaker 1: point being curious? I think is a really essential value,
Speaker 1: greater than having knowledge itself. After the break the risks
Speaker 1: and rewards of speaking up, I'm curious about any of
Speaker 1: the hard parts. And that can be interpreted in a
Speaker 1: number of ways. What occurs to me is you've got
Speaker 1: some public and outside pressure from the shut up and
Speaker 1: dribble wing, right, why are you meddling and muddying and
Speaker 1: these matters? Just perform? Do your thing. There's also the
Speaker 1: challenge of fatigue and even backlash to a level of
Speaker 1: activism and statement making by folks involved in athletics, and
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty moment has passed in certain ways where
Speaker 1: a lot of these companies needs are pulling back and
Speaker 1: people are kind of retrenching. So maybe there's a fatigue challenge,
Speaker 1: or maybe there's some other challenge in this work that
Speaker 1: you've identified that what do you think people need to
Speaker 1: know about what might be hard as you continue to
Speaker 1: weave the athletics and active citizenship world together, A doctor gunt,
Speaker 1: could you start us off with anything you might have
Speaker 1: experienced or witness. It takes work, and it takes intentional effort, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that sometimes is
Speaker 1: hard because in the midst of all the other responsibilities
Speaker 1: that we are trying to adhere to, in the midst
Speaker 1: of trying to learn offenses and defenses and due strength
Speaker 1: and win games and build team in our sport, in
Speaker 1: addition to also living our personal lives. As we talk
Speaker 1: about this how to be a citizen, it takes deliberate
Speaker 1: effort and work to dedicate yourself to having a level
Speaker 1: of humility that allows you to recognize there are multiple
Speaker 1: truths that coexist in the world that we live in,
Speaker 1: and trying to understand somebody else's experience takes intention, right,
Speaker 1: Trying to educate your yourself about issues that you may
Speaker 1: not be familiar with takes intention, That takes effort, and
Speaker 1: so it's not just going to happen, right, But I
Speaker 1: think that is a part of the hardness. In the
Speaker 1: moments where we may feel more disconnected than we've ever felt,
Speaker 1: In the moments where we may heal burned out, where
Speaker 1: we may heal exhausted, it's important for us to take
Speaker 1: care of ourselves. Let me be clear, right, we absolutely
Speaker 1: need to do those things to try to restore ourselves
Speaker 1: and replenish our energy. But it takes effort to be
Speaker 1: in community, to value the collective. But ultimately we all
Speaker 1: want to feel like we belong and so that level
Speaker 1: of reciprocity, that level of us needing to be able
Speaker 1: to give and to take, to show up and to listen,
Speaker 1: to be present and to sometimes do all of that
Speaker 1: takes work. And so I think the hard part is
Speaker 1: this is not something that can happen separate from the
Speaker 1: life you're living. This has to be integrated into the
Speaker 1: life you live, and it takes effort, but the reward
Speaker 1: can be tremendous. We want to close on those rewards
Speaker 1: and I'll have to do a kind of lightning round.
Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner Jamie, do you have anything to add on
Speaker 1: this one? Doctor Gunder's words really really struck me. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't always know what actions are the
Speaker 1: right actions to take, but I think as leaders you
Speaker 1: can always approach it with a vulnerability and a curiosity, right,
Speaker 1: And I think it's really important. I think Coach Kurr
Speaker 1: talked about this with the players. To say I don't know,
Speaker 1: or just to start with emotions, say I'm scared, that
Speaker 1: concerns me. I don't know what the action is, but
Speaker 1: if we can open up the conversation by being vulnerable
Speaker 1: people and being willing to learn, that opens up the
Speaker 1: conversation from especially those in leadership positions like coaches. The
Speaker 1: more vulnerable and authentic you're willing to be, and we're
Speaker 1: seeing this in the next generation of athletes. I'm sure
Speaker 1: Coach Kurrs as well. You have to do it that way.
Speaker 1: You have to connect with them right, to motivate them
Speaker 1: and to keep them bought into the team. So there's
Speaker 1: an incentive system in that too. But I just think
Speaker 1: this authenticity, this vulnerability, of this willingness to not know,
Speaker 1: just opens up the door or for people to work
Speaker 1: together instead of you know what, we've seen a lot
Speaker 1: which is shutting down and people taking kind of bifurcated positions.
Speaker 1: Coach Kerves, what's the hard part you've seen in intertwining
Speaker 1: these kind of different parts of people's identity and to
Speaker 1: anticipate where doctor Gunner was going to take us. What's
Speaker 1: the reward? What makes it work? Yeah? Well, I think
Speaker 1: what Jamie mentioned is so important, you know, the vulnerability
Speaker 1: aspect of it, but the hard part of being vulnerable
Speaker 1: is that we're living in an era where you know,
Speaker 1: people are out there ready to pounce as soon as
Speaker 1: you make a mistake. And that's that's what I've found,
Speaker 1: you know, being in the in the public eye, I've
Speaker 1: had to really make sure that I feel like I
Speaker 1: have a good grasp on what I'm talking about, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important if you're going to be
Speaker 1: involved in the community and involved in some kind of
Speaker 1: you know, social change that you're looking for, find a passion,
Speaker 1: find something that you're particularly interested in, and focus on
Speaker 1: it and read about it and get to know your subject.
Speaker 1: For me, that topic gun violence. I lost my dad
Speaker 1: to gun violence when I was eighteen years old, and
Speaker 1: so that issue is my passion and I've really had
Speaker 1: to learn over really since i started talking about it publicly,
Speaker 1: which started in about twenty sixteen. I think I've had
Speaker 1: to learn a lot of things. You know, I made
Speaker 1: a lot of mistakes just with my words and phrases.
Speaker 1: For example, you know, if you want to try to
Speaker 1: connect with people who are on the other side of
Speaker 1: the gun issue, don't say gun control, you know, we
Speaker 1: say gun violence prevention. It's an important distinction because if
Speaker 1: you want to actually make a connection with people and
Speaker 1: actually create progress, there's got to be common ground. And
Speaker 1: I've got a dozen other things that I could say
Speaker 1: in the same realm of expressions that I needed to learn,
Speaker 1: things that I needed to learn, statistics that I had
Speaker 1: to learn. But because it was a passion of mine,
Speaker 1: I really wanted to learn, and I found great resources
Speaker 1: to help me. And now I've really connected with some
Speaker 1: of the gun violence prevention groups you know nationally, with
Speaker 1: the Brady Center and Gifford's March for Our Lives. I've
Speaker 1: learned so much from these people. But the reward has
Speaker 1: been phenomenal. I've received letters and calls from high school students,
Speaker 1: junior high school students thanking me for speaking up based
Speaker 1: on what's happening around the country. It's incredibly inspiring to
Speaker 1: learn and grow and meet like minded people and what
Speaker 1: is really a nationwide movement to try to improve our society.
Speaker 1: So I guess that's my thought. My advice is to
Speaker 1: focus on something that you're passionate about, Otherwise you can get,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of get yourself in a little bit
Speaker 1: of trouble. But the rewards are really really impressive and satisfying.
Speaker 1: We are always short on time and discussions like these,
Speaker 1: doctor guns there, I want to give you an opportunity.
Speaker 1: Any last thought that you want to share, I'll come
Speaker 1: to you, Jamie, as well as you coach current. Then
Speaker 1: I'll put a button on this and let us get
Speaker 1: back to the rest of our days and our citizen
Speaker 1: And go ahead, doctor. There are two things that came
Speaker 1: to mind. And I've used this phrase now and a
Speaker 1: lot of talks and presentations that I do, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure it came from somebody much wiser than me, but
Speaker 1: I'll share it. And it's We're human beings, not human doings, right,
Speaker 1: And so as we think about civics, as we think
Speaker 1: about team, as we think about community, as we think
Speaker 1: about ourselves, it's really important for us to think about
Speaker 1: how we show up and how we can be in
Speaker 1: the world. And a just an equitable society is beneficial
Speaker 1: for all of us. And again I have to take
Speaker 1: it back to the mental health part, right, Like our
Speaker 1: mental health is impacted by what happens in us, to
Speaker 1: us and around us. So in addition to thinking about
Speaker 1: the ways that we take care of ourselves, the ways
Speaker 1: that we take care of each other. And the way
Speaker 1: that we help to create systems that promote health and
Speaker 1: wellness for the collective really creates a society that's better
Speaker 1: for all of us. And so those are some of
Speaker 1: the things that I think are important about this intersection
Speaker 1: and how it intersects with life. Thank you for that, Jamie.
Speaker 1: You know, again, working with young people like we do
Speaker 1: in college sports, you know, I think there's really this
Speaker 1: void of hope for the future for them, and I
Speaker 1: really hope that our leadership, you know, and I think
Speaker 1: that is affecting their mental health. We're hearing it stories
Speaker 1: every day in terms of we're trying to load up
Speaker 1: the services on campus. It's not just athletes, it's it's
Speaker 1: college students more broadly and youth more generally. But there's
Speaker 1: really this lack of hope because of sort of everything
Speaker 1: that they're being bombarded with. And I hope as leaders
Speaker 1: we can turn that around, and I think it will
Speaker 1: lead to better mental health and lead to better the
Speaker 1: reward will be a more just, comforting and supportive society
Speaker 1: for all of us. It's a massive undertaking. But whether
Speaker 1: it's climate change or social justice or otherwise, you know,
Speaker 1: these kids are being bombarded and I hope we can
Speaker 1: all step up and make a brighter future for them.
Speaker 1: Related to that, I think coach kerb brought up something
Speaker 1: really important, which is this notion of sort of talking
Speaker 1: to the other side, right. I mean, we have people
Speaker 1: that are so entrenched in their positions and we need
Speaker 1: to find way, and his is a good example to
Speaker 1: reach out and to speak to quote unquote the other
Speaker 1: side and people that have different ideals and philosophies and
Speaker 1: otherwise and come together in a way to determine this
Speaker 1: brighter future for sort of the young people of tomorrow
Speaker 1: who will lead us when we need their help. So
Speaker 1: those are sort of my two takeaways Code Curve bring
Speaker 1: us home. As Jamie said, our athletes, our students are
Speaker 1: getting bombarded with bad news and the difficulty of living
Speaker 1: modern life. As a result, it can cloud the picture.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a sense that, oh, my gosh, the
Speaker 1: world's in a terrible place. The world's actually in a
Speaker 1: way better place than it was fifty years ago. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of great things happening. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: wonderful people doing amazing things. There's a lot of beauty
Speaker 1: on earth. Yes, there are a lot of problems. But
Speaker 1: we live in a time where it's media for profits.
Speaker 1: It's just people trying to make money by sensationalizing everything,
Speaker 1: which is terrible for our mental health. So how can
Speaker 1: we help our students and our athletes and people around
Speaker 1: us understand that? Pardon my French, but all that stuff
Speaker 1: is bullshit, right, It really is. What matters is human
Speaker 1: connection truth And how do you get to the truth.
Speaker 1: It's it's through communication and respect and and interacting with
Speaker 1: people in your community. But we've got to find a
Speaker 1: way to lessen the mental impact of all this bombardment
Speaker 1: of negativity and divisiveness that is in many ways created
Speaker 1: just for profit in our world. Thank you for naming that.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for this beautiful communication, very respectful. I
Speaker 1: feel more connected to each of you in certain ways,
Speaker 1: Coach Kurr. I didn't remember that about you. I lost
Speaker 1: my father a gun violence when I was a child
Speaker 1: as well, and so I'm feeling extra human with all
Speaker 1: of you right now. Thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty,
Speaker 1: and your reminders as I interpret it, that we're not alone.
Speaker 1: You know, some of the weight that we've described, some
Speaker 1: of the news pressures, some of the criticisms and expectations.
Speaker 1: They weigh more heavily when we try to carry them
Speaker 1: by ourselves. And the principle of sport, as well as
Speaker 1: the principle of a democratic, small d society or any society,
Speaker 1: really is that we're stronger together. Our health is improved
Speaker 1: when we take it in a collective consideration and know
Speaker 1: that we can't do any of these things all by ourselves.
Speaker 1: That's really a tortuous and unhappy life. So thanks for
Speaker 1: coming together to remind us that we can be better together.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate all of your time here and certainly off screen.
Speaker 1: Thank you wa. We moved fast through that. That was
Speaker 1: one of the most efficient conversations I've been a part
Speaker 1: of in a while. It makes me think and really
Speaker 1: reminds me that there are so many ways to citizen.
Speaker 1: There's so many on ramps to having us create a
Speaker 1: culture we're caring about and fighting for our communities, and
Speaker 1: our democracy is actually exciting and cool and inviting. And
Speaker 1: I am clearly not the dude out there always talking
Speaker 1: about sports, but I'm aware enough to know that billions
Speaker 1: of people are deeply connected to them and the sense
Speaker 1: of belonging they provide that team's spirit extends well beyond
Speaker 1: the players, into the stands, into the living rooms. So
Speaker 1: the more things we can connect to this idea of
Speaker 1: citizen as a verb that people are already connected to,
Speaker 1: I say use it because that's more likely to help
Speaker 1: us create the culture and society we want to live in.
Speaker 1: Ergo Therefore, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, whatever it takes
Speaker 1: to help us learn, to help us practice. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: talking about practice. Listen, We're talking about practice. A huge
Speaker 1: thank you to doctor KENSA Gunser, Jamie Zaninovich, and coach
Speaker 1: Kerr for their ongoing work and for sharing their wisdom. Also, again,
Speaker 1: big thanks to Lisa Kay Solomon and coach Eric Revenoe
Speaker 1: for inviting us to be a part of this discussion
Speaker 1: and for being great partners in citizening. As always, we've
Speaker 1: got some specific actions you can take after listening to
Speaker 1: this episode that fall into three categories reflection, learning, and
Speaker 1: public participation. So go on build on the momentum you
Speaker 1: feel after listening to these incredible people. Our suggestions for
Speaker 1: internal reflection are inspired by doctor kinseb Gunter. For those
Speaker 1: of you that played sports, how did belonging to a
Speaker 1: team make you feel? What about teamwork was easy for you?
Speaker 1: What about it was hard? And if you weren't into sports,
Speaker 1: hello picture any other team you've been a part of,
Speaker 1: whether it's school, or work or somewhere in between. What
Speaker 1: personal benefits that you receive by coming together with others
Speaker 1: to work on something. Now, when terms of getting more informed,
Speaker 1: we got a simple recommend to go to our website
Speaker 1: how does citizen dot com because we've designed a quiz
Speaker 1: just for you. It's called what makes You Citizen and
Speaker 1: we built it to help you figure out what topics
Speaker 1: or issues you're most interested in. So take the quiz
Speaker 1: and once you get your results, we've got episodes you
Speaker 1: can listen to, and books and articles to read to
Speaker 1: get you started. For our final action recommendation, I invite
Speaker 1: you to join me in attending a gathering in your community.
Speaker 1: I'm not showing up to your community. I'm showing up
Speaker 1: in mind. But think about a council meeting, a nonprofit assembly,
Speaker 1: a school board meeting, a church pot luck, any kind
Speaker 1: of community forum to simply be present and listen. I'm
Speaker 1: going to find one in my neighborhood in Highland Park,
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. These neighborhood council meetings have been on my
Speaker 1: list for a long time, so I'm going to do it,
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to report back on the how
Speaker 1: does Citizen Instagram at how to Citizen and share with
Speaker 1: you what I learned, not what I said, what I learned.
Speaker 1: As always, we'd love to hear from you about your
Speaker 1: experiences taking any of the actions after listening to an episode.
Speaker 1: Did you discover a cause for the first time driven
Speaker 1: by your passion? Did you join me in attending a
Speaker 1: community gathering just to bear witness? Tag or DMUs on
Speaker 1: Instagram at how to Citizen, And if you don't do
Speaker 1: the social media thing, we got you, you can also
Speaker 1: just email us comments at how to citizen dot com.
Speaker 1: We may even ask to share your story with our listeners.
Speaker 1: If you take any of these actions, please brag about
Speaker 1: it online and use the hashtag how to Citizen. Also
Speaker 1: tag our Instagram how to Citizen. I am always online
Speaker 1: and I really do see your messages, so send them.
Speaker 1: You can also visit our website, how to citizen dot com,
Speaker 1: which has all of our shows, full transcripts, actions and more.
Speaker 1: How to Citizen with barrettun Day as a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio podcasts and Row Home Productions. Our executive producers are
Speaker 1: Me barrettun Day Thirsty, and Elizabeth Stewart. Our lead producer
Speaker 1: is Ali Graham, Our associate producer is Danya abdel Hamid.
Speaker 1: Alex Lewis is our managing producer, and John Myers is
Speaker 1: our executive editor and mixed engineer. Original music by Andrew
Speaker 1: Eapen with additional music by Blue Dot Sessions. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Joel Smith from iHeart Radio and lay Labina. Next
Speaker 1: time on how the Citizen we go to Paris really
Speaker 1: every three weeks, we have a big happening in front
Speaker 1: of the Lloyd's Marketplace. They had one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: den Sels who came and did a show of I
Speaker 1: forgot her name, chim Chimney him Mary pops okay, And
Speaker 1: so they did because the story of bankers being sad.
Speaker 1: Because so they had one hundred and fifty bankers with
Speaker 1: fake fake Mary. Path to the Future Insures product Come
Speaker 1: back to hear my conversation with Christian vunny Zette about
Speaker 1: organizing volunteers into activists and bringing joy, dance parties and
Speaker 1: innovation to the fight for climate justice. Row Home Productions