00:00:17
Speaker 1: Pushkin is taste innate or is it learned? In the case of the chef Flynn McGarry, it's a combination of both. A wunderkind, a child prodigy who began cooking professionally at age ten. He was covered as an oddity in global publications and he could have easily burnt out. But against those odds, he's become a credible force in dining in New York City. Shaped early by Californian cooking, he went on to train in Scandinavian kitchens and study kaiseki in Japan. His New York restaurants, Cove and gem Home represent his most complete expression, even as they constantly evolve. At twenty seven, his path is only limited by his imagination and the new influences he will bring from around the world to his wood paneled restaurants in New York City. Here's my conversation with the chef Flyn McGarry. Flynn, welcome to traveling through. I'm really happy to have you. You know, you started obviously so young, But where was the first place that you traveled professionally as like as a cook, as a chef.

00:01:28
Speaker 2: Growing up in California, I had this sort of plan to finish high school early and sort of made this deal with my mom that was like instead of going to college or whatever, like I'm going to go to Europe and work. You know, this is like what chefs used to do. You know. It's like you go to Europe and you learn these trades that they've been doing for much longer in this culture and ustage. Yeah, and so you know, I had this plan. It was like I was like saving up. I was like, because I didn't have the money to travel, you know and do this, And so I spent all these years working a full time job in la as a child and then doing the pop up saving everything up to be able to do this trip to sort of like actually see these restaurants firsthand and you know very much.

00:02:18
Speaker 1: So like what was on your like hit list, what was on the the dream the dream restaurants.

00:02:24
Speaker 2: So I knew I wanted to go to Scandinavia. I was like, Okay, on one hand, I was going to go do Favicen, And then I was like, do I want to go spend four months in the woods. Maybe that's not really like what it's supposed to be, like going to a new city and like exploring these things.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Fabrican was a restaurant that was, I mean super remote, three hours out of the way.

00:02:44
Speaker 2: I was like, I also couldn't drive at the time, so I was like, I don't even know how I would get there. I also that was another reason that I kind of looked to Scandinavia. It was like they all speak English, which was, you know, very helpful for me. If I went cold into a French kitchen, I would you know, I don't know what I've.

00:02:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not speaking English. For there was sort of.

00:03:00
Speaker 2: One option for me was this area, and I had seen this restaurant Mimo that was really intriguing to me, and just like, well, where's Mimo. Mimo is in Oslo? It felt much more reasonable as like the first place to go. It wasn't a three star it was it was a two stars. Time, chef was very young, the team was small, so I had that set up, and then I wanted to do Geranium, which is now a three emission star restaurant in Copenhagen, mainly because it was such a different type of food than I was familiar with and cooking, and was just like, this is what it's supposed to be in what sense what like it is like very modernist, very like not this sort of idea that people have of like Scandinavian like you know, kind of like foraged and whatever. I didn't want to just go to like two of the same restaurants, right, And then you had Duranium, which was really like he won the Bookhu's Door every year, like you know, I spent ninety percent of my time like filling molds with things, and I wanted to learn very distinct things at both restaurants. It was sort of my goal going into there, and I did, you know, I learned the things that I was going for, and it was really sort of like amazing first place to go, especially in this like learning about Scandinavian culture and these things that I really liked about it and things that also maybe didn't love about it and that I didn't find like the most familiar, you know. I think for the first month it wasn't miserable. But all I did I went to the restaurant. I would work, and then on Sunday I would hang out with the cooks. And none of us were from there, and we didn't you know, like actually the city was shut down. The city is the size of the Lower East Side. You know, I stayed on one end and Mimo was on the other end. I would walk to work every day, take twenty minutes.

00:04:50
Speaker 1: At sixteen, What were your parents like, you know, they you would have been like a little mascot in the kitchen or was there? Oh you were you close in age to the chefs?

00:05:00
Speaker 2: No, no, I was much younger, and they you know, they called me hot shot. They like, oh really yeah, and like randomly, like some Norwegian newspaper like covered me being there, and you know, and I think that I've always loved that sort of like camaraderie or they're just like this is a weird, a weird person. But then when you go through a hard.

00:05:24
Speaker 1: Services, you have to earn that respect.

00:05:26
Speaker 2: You earn their respect, and then you know, everyone I worked with there I still know today and like, you know, they all have restaurants. And I think that's why I wanted to also work with a small team is you know a lot of the ways where I went in as a single, you know, sixteen year old and you're just sort of one person out of one hundred. It's very hard to gain anyone's respect, and they do just look at you as a child, and here it's like, you know, they were able to kind of take this chance on me, I think because also I had worked with the suship before and he kind of vouched like, I know, this is a young person, but he knows what he's doing. And they were able to treat me as like a team member because I was helping them. I was working seven am until midnight, like we were doing all the same things, and I think very quick. That's what I've always loved about kitchens is like, you know, you could all be from a very different place, but the second that you're like all doing the same thing, it really kind of bonds you together. And that's really why I like love that size of a kitchen, Like around that ten people, like it really does feel like this close knit team where you all kind of jump around the restaurant to help each other. And you know, there was a point where, like towards the end when I was there and it was like I had learned kind of every station because I was on one, but then they need help over on the meat roast, and I'd go over there and I learned how to like cut the laning scenes and so like.

00:06:47
Speaker 1: Then how do you like, you know, at that age, how do you how do you become in the know, Like you're always reading at that point.

00:06:56
Speaker 2: Early there's a what's called egullet that was just like okay, like early food bloggers, and like I was just so curious, you know, and so yeah, I was always reading. I was like always trying to see what, you know, what was resonating with me. And I think probably when I told people like to go to Oslo, they were like why you know? And I had never been there. I didn't really know anything about the city. Like I just wanted to go work at this restaurant because there was something about what they were doing that felt very unique and special, and like, you know, I still use all of these skills that I learned at that restaurant, like to the day, which is I would say, like the most successful kind of a stage that like every single thing that I learned there is like drilled into my brain and I could probably make all of the dishes that I like cooked there from like memory today.

00:07:44
Speaker 1: Still do you think that destination dining is still a thing, because I think it's kind of changed. I'm curious about your thoughts.

00:07:53
Speaker 2: It's changed significantly I think we're in an era where it's not destination dining, it's like traveling and then there's nice food there. M h. I think what actually the chef of Favic and Magnus just opened in Sweden think is like the perfect example of this. I think people are really willing to travel for a point of view, and we see that in hotels and you know, even like going to see how like going to stay at a house in the middle of nowhere by an architect or something. I think that the style of food in those restaurants is going to change because the people that are traveling, getting on a flight going there, and they're going to stay in these spaces might not want the twenty seven course dinner that it always was, right And I read something that he was talking about that where he was like he was going to open another Fabrican that was the definition of like traveling for that for sure, and he kind of came.

00:08:54
Speaker 1: This is a restaurant that like was in the middle of the snow, like yeah in Sweden, you know, so.

00:09:00
Speaker 2: Remote, so much of pain in the ass, and like that was its whole thing.

00:09:04
Speaker 1: And he would be there and like out in the snow in huge firs. Yeah, breaking down an animal foraging.

00:09:10
Speaker 2: It was like a seven hour dinners that were like all these one bites and it was like this aggressive pursuit of like perfection in the food. And he said the same way he was gonna it was going to open another one. And then he was like, we don't need and we don't need this. And I think that that's the biggest change going on in the food world right now. There isn't one way to get your creative expression across, and that that way that we've been doing it might actually now be the worst way to get that across. And I think that's why I love design so much, and frankly say that almost more of my job now is design than actually the actual like cooking of it is because I believe, like we've talked about, like you have these references, these things that you pull from these like all the time that you spend getting these ideas, I do believe that they come across so much cleaner and easier and less offensive, even in your design and the way that you create a space and the way that you host someone. Then getting those ideas across on a plate.

00:10:21
Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting because now there's this sort of fifty best of hotels, World's fifty best, and also three Michelin keys they're calling them, and I sort of think that the hotel world is starting to move into that moment, which is very early on. I kind of saw and was involved or adjacent to that world because I was writing about kind of restaurants that were on the fifty Best. I went last year to the fifty Best ceremony in Turin in Tono, and it was really interesting to see all of the chefs because it really went from this kind of ridiculous, overinflated ego where everyone was trying to drive at exactly the same aesthetic and same point of view, and it's this symbiotic hellscape where get me on the fifty best, get me three yeah mission keys, And I don't know, I just sort of see that as being a bit of a warning sign because I do think that, like hotels are giving that complete expression of food design, all of those things.

00:11:22
Speaker 2: Well, and they can. I think the difference too, is that restaurants, I think hit this point where they were like, I can't charge anymore, and a hotel you can charge as much as you want. And I think that that is the biggest thing that people don't really talk about where I'm like, yeah, I know why mag is open a hotel because you can charge one hundred dollars for dinner and you can charge five hundred dollars for the room there in this tiny town, and like people will pay it, and then it'll keep going up and up and up. I do think, you know, to your exact point. It's like they're all starting to look the same, you know, Oh, this was this was a Sean McPherson thing that now every hotel in the world does. And like it's very similar to chefs, where it's like you start to borrow these things in the way that the he is and then all of a sudden, now that's how you do it, and that's how you get three, you know.

00:12:15
Speaker 1: Like I mean, the thing that semi saves the World's fifty best, although I don't think there's ever such thing as a best World's best anything is no such thing is In the first year, they gave it to this hotel in Como called Pasilakua, which is run by Valentino Desantes who's from a family of hoteliers. But it is really an extraordinary like she's kind of a visionary, but you know, she's kind of a generation defining hoteliers, so it's slightly different. So everyone's then kind of try to emulate a little bit that. So it's definitely if you want to see how like hotel judging is going to like where that's going, just look at the World's.

00:12:57
Speaker 2: Fifty Best and the three Micheling No. I mean, that's it's completely just shifted to that. And I think in the same way though, it's going to go through this process of you know, everyone's going for this one thing and then it's going to revert to now we all need to go for the opposite, and you know, the style needs to change. I think the difference though the hotel thing has always been it's like you have an asset now, so a restaurant is not mostly you don't own it, you just have a lease. And so it's like the longevity to be able to do that at a point where it makes money. It's like if you get your hotel on this list and then one day you're just done. You have a very expensive asset that works. You could run the best restaurant in the world forever. But if you don't own your building, and you don't own like the rights, and no one wants to buy because you're the chef and you're the only one that is keeping it up. There's no long term plan for that. So that's where it's like, I think the judging is obviously feeling very similar, but I think the outcome, the result is going to be completely different because just the way that these business models are run.

00:14:06
Speaker 1: Well and it's there's a lot of big multinational corporations.

00:14:10
Speaker 2: That are shaying up nice boutique hotels. No one's buying a nice boutique restaurant.

00:14:15
Speaker 1: You know.

00:14:15
Speaker 2: I've always been like, you know, one day I would love to do a hotel because it does feel like this way to be able to see your vision through and the amount of work that you put into it compounds into a sort of worth and a restaurant. What is both I think amazing about it, but very difficult about it is the amount of work that you put into it in the beginning, in the building of it, in the ideation. None of that matters if you don't do that same amount of work every single day and you're constantly reinventing it. Obviously, a hotel you have to like upkeep all of that, but I mean you do so what a nice room gets you far enough? Right in that way.

00:14:55
Speaker 1: Have you ever been to La Duna? Yes, to a restaurant of my friends. Actually, yeah, James is from Brisbane and we grew up in the same.

00:15:01
Speaker 2: I've known James first.

00:15:02
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, long, yeah, Well we grew up in the same suburb of Brisbane basically, and we've been friends with some time. And that was a lot long hell project for him. I mean it was insane what he did, like working as a chef, not dissimilar to you in that whole bistronomy movement.

00:15:19
Speaker 2: I've stayed there and now twice and I always think it's like such a special place that is also very unique to It's a restaurant with rooms, and I think they were very good at the way that they laid that out. That is like we're gonna give you a really amazing room with like an amazing bathtub, and it's beautiful, but it's a room, you know, like we're a restaurant and you're gonna come in the morning and you're gonna see cooks like getting ready for service, and like, to me, I think that is like another example of like something that he has such a point of view I agree with so wholeheartedly.

00:15:56
Speaker 1: That's like, hey, you guys are quite similar. Actually both like tennis too.

00:15:59
Speaker 2: We both like tennis. We've played tennis there, we played tennis here. I mean, yeah, that's always I've always been like that is such a dream project. It's like, obviously you know how much work went into that, but it's a singular thing, you know, that place the kind of antithesis to a lot of this sort of like more European American style of hotel. Is like I've always been obsessed with Japan, as you know, most chefs always are, but I think I've also always been obsessed with like that style of hospitality that I think is also very similar to like this sort of scannon even cell hospitality too. That's a little bit like we're here if you need us.

00:16:43
Speaker 1: Have you done a whole bunch of rhyacons around?

00:16:46
Speaker 2: So? I actually I have only been in Japan twice, and the last time I went was like for an extending period time. I went with a friend, like in this group, it was like a soak trip. So we went to visit all these breweries and we didn't really stay anywhere, you know, remarkable. We were just like in these business hotels and kind of going through and every day we go on a day trip to a brewery. But we have an investor of the restaurant who is like, you have to go stay at this one rio kan in Kyoto that is not really a hotel, it's just this house. He's Japanese and he was like, to understand Japanese kind of hospitality. You need to go see this place because I think you'd really, you know, find it fascinating. I like blocked off the day. I was like, guys, I had another hotel. I was like, I'm just doing this for one night. I want to go, like experience this. And it still is the only real kind of I've stayed in, and it wasn't even really one. I would say I was the only person staying there. You know. I think there was something like beautifully uncomfortable about it. You know, obviously like you're sleeping on the floor and like that level of slight uncomfort, but like, I think something that I really do like about you know, personally, I don't think I could pull it off in a lot of ways, but you know, is this kind of like it's like you're in my house, you know, like you we have to work together here, right, but everything that you're going to get is going to be amazing. I think it really like I was like so grateful for like everything, and I was very like, you know, it's like respectful of the house and everything. And it also even felt like I had a I remember I had like a supposed to get like a zoom call with like these lawyers because we were like negotiating a deal, and I was like, this feels wrong to do here, you know, like, and it was a true vacation even for one night in that way where I like felt like gross looking at my phone and I like just read and it was actually this like really special Like I think it was sort of being in a space where someone is so committed that it forces you to engage one hundred percent.

00:18:46
Speaker 1: Is that kind of where you got some of that inspiration for what you're doing now?

00:18:49
Speaker 2: Yeah? I Mean this easiest way that I could describe like what we cook right now is it's like the sourcing of ingredients is something that I've always learned from being in California. Like this like aggressive commitment to sourcing and farming and and all of that, and like sort of the flavor combinations. The I think what I learned in Scandavia that I bring in is this sort of like expanding on that a little bit further. Like you know, I always say, like my comparison to is California cuisine. As you take a peach and you put on a plate, Scanney and Cuisina. As you take a peach, you go, how can I make this a little bit taste more like a peach? And in New York you have to do that because sometimes the peach that you get is not as good as the one that you picked off a tree. You know. What I learned in Scannavia is you deal with seasons. You deal with it. It got too hot, this isn't good anymore. In California you have this, you know line, and like everyone's a while asman goes bad. But like when one thing goes bad and something else is perfect. You know, the asparagus just got bad because it all got starchy, but now there's cherries here. Things just get bad and then nothing else is good, you know, And so you have to manipulate products to a certain extent. And I think that's really what I learned there. I think what I really learned from even just you know, the couple times in Japan, is how important and is I think something that both California and Scanning even food just took from Japan because also like growing up in California, all I ate was Japanese food. Really yeah, I mean that's literally like all I would eat growing up Japanese and Mexican food was like that to me, that is California. What I think that those places, you know, took from Japan really intensely, was that none of that matters unless you can present it correctly to a guest, and how important that presentation is, and not just the presentation, but the you know, the way you organize the meal, you know, the sort of kaiseki, you know, how you start here and go here and go here, and you know where I think we've landed with Coven, like we got rid of this. We had an eight eight course longer menu and we got rid of it because no one really wanted it. They wanted this other way of eating. And then we did a four course menu that you could add on to and all of a sudden, yeah, ninety percent of our room is doing the menu is the same way where it's like everyone right now is eating a set lunch. That's like the whole new thing in New York is set lunch. I love a set lunch. You get a tray with all these little bites and things, and like, to me, that was this thing that I really took back from Japan. It was just like it's so important the way that you deliver like portions and things to guests, and that is where there's so much intention. I was say, one of my big references for like the a la carte version of Cove was I go to Omen a lot downtown, sure, and I'll always get like we'll always get like the cod and this rice, and then we'll always get a agadashi tofu.

00:21:51
Speaker 1: It's like what Odeon is too, like American downtown dining. Yeah, omen is to Japanese.

00:21:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I always say, it's like there's nothing a lot more than you're you're eating this thing and they bring up with the agadashi tofu and they bring you each get a specific unique bowl and a spoon to share it, and it's like that little bit of attention that's like this is not going to be good unless you get the broth with it. So we're going to bring you a little side bowl and split it into it. That intention, I think is something that so many restaurants miss. And I could make you know, this delicious dish with this delicious sauce, but if you take a scoop off the top and you put on your plate. That's what I do believe is valuable in tasting and us is being able to control these portions. If you're trying to get across a very like nuanced sort of flavor, is you need to get the wassabi with it. You need these exact amounts. And I think that that's where Japan has been so good at, like you know, being like, oh you want to split it. Here's like a tray and you get your little pickle in this and this and this, and it's like it is a tasting menu in a way, but it's just the way that you're actually like experiencing. It is not the euro you know kind of like like you know arduous, you know, ending on a meat course. You know, this is kind of like big thing. And I think that we're you know, every day I'm trying kind of asking myself, you know, what is the New York O my Casse eight, you know, like or you know what is that? And it is speed and it's why om cars. It works really well here, like people really still love that. And how do you without becoming a fould Japanese restaurant, right, how do you take those influences and like give people that correct experience.

00:23:37
Speaker 1: Well, like for Japanese restaurants, they're obviously so related to the space, right and the way that they the interaction happens with the kitchen, but also that you get all of these different vessels, ceramics that have a specific purpose and spoons and all of those things. I'm interested in the way that you find things. You know, I think you're as curious about interiors and design and spaces and how they interact with food and how their personal expression and point of view.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think to me, like we've talked with like icee restaurants as a sum of everything together. And as I started to get more into design, even like being all the design spaces that didn't you know, gem Home and even gem Wine were like less about me cooking this food. It was more about how do I create a space that achieves this kind of vision. That's the thing that I love the most is it's curating, you know, at restaurant.

00:24:34
Speaker 1: This episode of Traveling Through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital one cardholders are passionate about unforgettable experiences. Together, we partner to connect these curious travelers to world cultures through expert guided journeys from the peaks of much Epeachu to the grand architecture of Vienna. These ones in a lifetime trips take you somewhere truly off the beaten path. Through Capital One Entertainment, eligible cardholders can book exclusive experiences and so much more, all while earning elevated rewards. Savor cardholders earn eight percent cash back and venture X earns five X miles. Thanks to Capital One, your dream getaway is one step closer. Who was the biggest infl so on you around your design, aesthetic, well finding things.

00:25:15
Speaker 2: I think it really was this this time that I spent in Europe, when you start to be places that feel incredibly like comfortable, starting to like identify what those things are that make you feel comfortable, and then expanding on that even further sture and to understand where those come from, you know, And so I just being in Coviding, you're like, oh, the like home of design, you go to the design museum, you start to like and I was not someone that like as a child, was like, I wasn't like into architecture, like I've carried off food. And then you know, I kind of realized that. But I always love plates and these things that went around it. And then you start to think about building a restaurant. You have to design it and kind of all this stuff, and so I obviously was always around it, and you think about it in a restaurant, you think about the chair you're sitting in, even if you're not you don't know who makes it. Now unfortunately I know who makes everything. So it's kind of becomes this unfortunate.

00:26:09
Speaker 1: If the pathology once you start, you can't go back.

00:26:11
Speaker 2: You can't go back. Yeah, it's you understand the price behind it as well. In this trip, I had this sort of very random invite from someone that I knew from California to go cook in Belgium at Trees van Nottan's house for a period of time. And you know, it's funny that I was sixteen years old. I had no idea who this person was, and I was just kind of like free place to stay for two weeks.

00:26:37
Speaker 1: Like that is so wild.

00:26:40
Speaker 2: I think what was such a unique thing about that time was I had come from. It was almost like you could say that I just spent a month starting to think about design.

00:26:50
Speaker 1: I read that you worked or got to know Axel Verdot as well, Like that is kind of insane, sore and Axel Axel if anyone doesn't know, is like, you know, the I don't want to say iconic but really iconic Belgian designer.

00:27:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I met axelent even, but I actually met women Barbara Debelder and her husband Daniel, who they're very close with Trees and she's Axles head of design and they have this amazing property. Everyone there has these amazing properties, but they're all very different, you know, and right, and I think in this trip I started to learn very different types of luxury. And you know, they have this house that's all built from fallen trees on their property, Like all the walls are full chestnut, like twenty four inches just like planks on the walls, and it's a very amazing opportunity I had to understand both staying at Trees's house, which is the sort of maximalist, you know, prints everywhere like showing you you know, it's the thread counts, the colors, the you know how that can feel so amazing and so special and but.

00:28:07
Speaker 1: Still with like of such an elegance too.

00:28:09
Speaker 2: There's such an well, it's it's it's never over the top, you know, It's like it's the thing that he didn't put on the wall is what is what makes it all so special.

00:28:19
Speaker 1: My boyfriend says, my style is quiet maximalism.

00:28:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like when you start to learn about, you know, the way that you're seeing someone's personality. But then also the same thing with going to his other house and being like, I don't know if anyone has ever stayed in a room that is one hundred percent hardwood chestnut that has never been oiled and has just been worn in throughout the years and the softness of that and when you and that's like also the same thing as Japan. It's like when you start to understand these like it's just a piece of wood, but there's such an incredible amount of luxury to the grain of it, and the you know, these little tiny details like you know, all of the doorknobs in there in their houses are our fallen acorns. And I think what I really learned there too is I think the biggest thing that kind of like you're saying that Belgium is really good at, is knowing context design, understanding that you can't do the same thing everywhere. And I think that is something that Scandinavian you know, classics are you know, scanning and Modernism was less of because it was all very much so just kind of built new and like was very like clean lines. I had these this very rigid which is also scannab it all that ways, like very rigid mentality that I think the Belgian is a little bit more like I went to Japan and I bought all these amazing ceramics, and how do they fit in my neo classic house?

00:29:46
Speaker 1: Right?

00:29:47
Speaker 2: And I think that is something that I have really brought into like how I look at New York that is like there if I'm in this space in the Lower East Side or in this brand new building or whatever, like I can't bring the same thing everywhere because it needs to make sense in the context from the table where like so.

00:30:08
Speaker 1: Way finding all of the things for gem home and in your house, like are you a market goer? Like yes, antique store.

00:30:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean kind of we've we've scaled back a bit of the antique because I honestly don't have time anymore to do it. I read you love it, I love it. I love an auction. I will like bring back full suitcases anytime I travel of things. I mean I have like obsessively. I think being in Belgium and Copenhag started going to these flea markets and kind of buying stuff, and that was part of where gem Home came from, was like I need to offload some of this stuff. You know, you go through these phases and like I'm in a new phase again of like I think, once you go to all of these thrift stores and flea markets and you start to start seeing the same stuff and knowing how you know, it's like you start to get your taste, starts to like refine, refine and refine, and it's like I used to go. It's so funny, I think I used to go to anytime I go to new flea market through store, I would I would leave with a suitcase. And now nine times at that time, ten I leave with nothing because I have so much also, And you know, I think I've gone through the phases of I bought all the boats, and I bought all the airplanes, and I bought.

00:31:20
Speaker 1: All yeah, tell me about the boats and the airplanes? What what what's that? I just like, I don't know.

00:31:24
Speaker 2: I went through the and now you know, I've gotten rid of all the boats, Like oh really, it's I love buying like exactly what you're saying, like buying that thing because I'm like, this is something really cool, hm, letting it ride its wave, and then when it when you don't, it's like the classic, when it doesn't spark joy, you to get rid of it. And like I went through a boat phase because it's like you go to these antiques stories there's boats everywhere and they're they're kind of cool, and like, you know, I started to do that. It was I liked it, and then you know, I found all these weird airplanes. And recently I was buying every I bought all these photos of the of the Zeppelin, all these really beautiful antique photos of this of like just blimps, and so I just have like forty photos of these blimps for me. Another thing is it's like I buy these things because I'm like one day I will have a bar that wouldn't it be cool if in the bathroom it was just photos of blimps and I have that.

00:32:19
Speaker 1: Idea, So that's always.

00:32:21
Speaker 2: Find I don't want to open a blimp bar anytime soon. But I was like a bar called the Zepplin.

00:32:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Zeppeline that's cooled exactly. Like it's like you have these like uh huh.

00:32:31
Speaker 2: You see an object and it inspires an entire like the gem Wine space was entirely inspired by this one vintage boat and then how do you build a space around it? And that was like a real moment that I think I had in design that was very like around these objects that I found unique. And I think now it's a little bit more I think focused on the craft of them, unless of like it's fact quality of the object is really what I'm like obsessing over. Now.

00:33:00
Speaker 1: You know, how are you? How are you finding that out?

00:33:02
Speaker 2: You just know because you I think it's just like as you keep buying things, it's like you start to it's like I'm trying about like the plank of wood on the wall, and you start to really look at what you keep going back to and what I keep going back to is this like very high quality of less things, but higher quality of the ones that are there. So that that one boat maybe that you have where that one, you know, beautiful vase on a table is like you've allowed everyone to focus on it.

00:33:34
Speaker 1: What was like the most exciting day at flea market or auction house fee.

00:33:40
Speaker 2: I actually just recently had a pretty pretty big.

00:33:42
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're going you're contradicting yourself now, because well, no, I'm actually so it's just the point. It's a disease. You'd have a que enough.

00:33:50
Speaker 2: But in this very way where my apartment I'm moved with my girlfriend, we kind of both brought these things and it was much larger apartment, so we kind of, you know, just put everything together. And it's always an ever changing how do you lay out your ligenhire whatever. So there's a lot of things that just kind of were like, you know, a coffee table that I built because I needed it and I've always been waiting. We recently got a van for the restaurant for like small farms, we go back and forth. Part of the reason I've always wanted a van too is that I could actually buy furniture, and I found this auction website, and I have always had an obsession with old growth pine furniture because it looks unlike anything new, because you just can't buy pine them like the Axeline Heart Horse furniture, where it's like it's a shade of it's a tone that is impossible to achieve with any current type of wood. So it's always been obsession of mine. And I essentially found all these pieces that were exactly you know this like old Belgian coffee table that's all like in New York, in Connecticut, okay, And they just did these like two weeks of auctions, and I was just going crazy, and I bought like two chairs, a coffee table, a bench, and another bench, and I like almost like blacked out, bought all this stuff and then went, well, I don't I have all this furniture and and so then I immediately the next day sold all of my furniture on Facebook Marketplace. I was just like offloading now. It was such an amazing feeling of when it all landed there. That's That's what I'm always looking for, is that, Like my girlfriend, like the table came in it was a little too tall, and I was like so upset and so I like set up a saw and cut it down, and it's like that feeling of when it all lands. It is like the truest sense of like calm in my brain because I'm like, I have the vision in my head and when it actually is achieved. And that's that's always been the goal of the flea market or whatever, this thing that completes your vision.

00:35:54
Speaker 1: You know.

00:35:54
Speaker 2: And sometimes you go and you buy these random things and I always have such aggressive regret when they don't all come together together, you know. But yeah, it's those those times of like I was on this huge antiquing trip, like all the way through the coast and found this one boat it's like framed in this things crazy antique dealer, and it just like I was like, this is this? This is the center of gemline is this? And then you know you expand upon that. What are the colors of the ship and how do you keep doing that? And that's sort of like that's what I've always loved about it. It's the same way I love going to the farmer's market, you know. It's like it's the same sense of discovery, right that you can build something around this narrative. And I always have these you know, points that I really look towards of like when will I feel that it's not done, but that I could like take a take a breath, and how everything has to fit together in this way.

00:36:48
Speaker 1: That's I can tell you that's never gonna happen.

00:36:50
Speaker 2: It's never gonna happen. But I do think there's it's important to have those visions of you know, intention, And I think that's what bothers me honestly about when people use the word curation, is that curation without like prop like true intention is not curation. You're just collecting. And I think that I go through phases where I'm just aimlessly sort of getting things, and then something clicks, and that is when I actually find that, you know, you can actually create something really special. And I've gotten better at not getting frustrated in the periods of just like trying to whether it's working out a menu flow or a dish or even cove. Like right when we opened, we've changed like four things. But for example, right now, it actually does feel the closest to like settled, because the vision for the food, the ceramics, the service, the space are as close as I've ever wanted them.

00:37:56
Speaker 1: To be.

00:37:57
Speaker 2: But how that happened was I created one and then I had to adjust everything to find this correct level. I'm never like treating to be like what is the Flynn mcgarrea project. It's like, what is this thing in my head that I want to see? It's it's like a very kind of ritualistic way of thinking about everything is like it needs to all land and if it's not. I kind of spend the entire like with my like new living room thing. It was like I bought all the furniture and then I just kind of it was in a corner, and then I spent the entire week like going about my week, but in the back of my head being like every like twenty minutes it'd be like what I I did that?

00:38:36
Speaker 1: And then it's like, Eah, you're very open to talking about your influences and evolution. Right for someone so high profile and under scrutiny, and forgive me for saying this, at your age, you have like an astonishing level of security in yourself that Seriously, where did I mean it's probably a personal question, but where does that come from? How did that happen?

00:39:03
Speaker 2: I think kind of like having always had that scrutiny, and it just makes you so much more comfort even in failing, and like even in making some bad you know, ideas and having a vision is what got me this far and like sticking to it. But I also think that a big thing about kind of doing anything young is that there is no blueprint. And as much as I have tried to find a blueprint or talk to people to give me some sort of like insight, it was always met with like, You've gotten to where you are in such a unique way that I cannot give you any advice, right, And I think that gives you a sense of security, because you know, it's like the security of there is no security, And like, I think that's just what I've always felt very comfortable in. That's like even in my career, Like I feel like I went into it very like I want every accolade, and that isn't how it has really gone.

00:40:05
Speaker 1: And I think so that that's what what I mean, because I I didn't know you when.

00:40:10
Speaker 2: I mean, I like, you know, with the New York Times when I was fifteen, it was like I want the best rush on the I want the best rustaur on the world. And then you start to even realize that, Like, I think, something big that I realized is that any you know, my upbringing, my saying that as a child, my being in the public eye, deeply affects the way that people see what I do now, and there's nothing I can do about that. I could sit here and be upset that they're not taking me seriously because they're always going to mention that I'm I was, you know, a child chef or whatever, but.

00:40:43
Speaker 1: They I mean, the amazing thing is is that they are yes. Yeah, I mean the fact that you've had that trajectory is like pretty improbable yes to say yeah. And I'm not talking about you being so young, although that closed the obvious thing, but the the turning it to actual critical acclaim is not what should have happened or what was like if that makes sense.

00:41:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think what I've learned a lot is that, like, the barometers for success in this industry and also for myself are very different than you know they were. Also when I had these initial ideas it was sixteen years ago. The world is very different right now. And I think that you know, this sort of like commitment to a vision is really like what I've appreciated to kind of keep keep me going, keep the spaces going. And you know, our partners and everything have been incredibly like helpful behind that. But I think that being able to have the winds not be getting on the fifty best or whatever, but to be that I had this vision for this menu or for this space, and when those you know, you have that perfect service that sort of happens. It allows me to really keep going without sitting there going, oh, you know, why didn't we get a star last year? Why don't we get this? It's like, you know, and what I've started to learn that I think is really interesting is that these things have actually created successes in very different ways. You know. The way that we even like all the design side and the way that we do event because of our space is so different than like if we had this restaurant that was so focused on the food. Like I think that's why music there. It's obviously slightly scary sometimes to be like there is no blueprint for like what I want to do, but it's also kind of very freeing to sort of.

00:42:48
Speaker 1: Well and you take some pieces from around the world, right, that's the power of travel in your Yeah, is there anywhere else you would open a restaurant. And I'm not saying like, oh, I'm going to open one in Vegas or I'm gonna open something in California. If there was a dream place, is there one that? Is there a place that you would go? Actually, I'd love to have to run a restaurant.

00:43:06
Speaker 2: I don't think I would ever open a standalone restaurant anywhere else. I do think, you know, if I were to ever open like this kind of hotel, kind of larger project everywhere I go, I kind of think, like, Okay, where would this make sense? And you know, I do think I do often think about like northern California a lot of ways, because I do think that obviously very nice place to live, very nice place to like cook and do all these things. I think in the same way that I believe that there's a goal of my running restaurants in New York is to like show people there's a different way to do this, I think I have a very similar in terms of hospitality and hosting in California. That's like, guys, there's a whole other world out there that is very different than like what California has been doing for a while. That I think would be unique to do someday. I'm not done living in New York, and I obviously like I have businesses and very focused here, But I think in terms of like locations, my question is always what would I do there that would add a specific voice to the city or to wherever it is instead of just homogenizing. I always have had the joke that, like, if I were to ever open, which I don't think I would do at this point, but if I were ever like move back and open something in Copenhagen, I would open like a like squirrel. I would open like a proper like La Cafe in Copenhagen because they don't need a restaurant that's like new nor they have a lot of them, you know, Like.

00:44:46
Speaker 1: Well, you'd have plenty of opportunity for fermentation. But I guess that's a bad joke. Yeah, But if you're thinking about, like, yeah, there's these waves of interest Japan, New Nordic, like, is there is there a region that you don't know that you're intrigued by From a food perspective.

00:45:08
Speaker 2: I've always been very fascinated by from Afar from South America. Honestly, I think.

00:45:15
Speaker 1: You're talking Peru.

00:45:16
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think just like you know, Argentina, I think there's a lot of like those similar flavors that I really like. I think my hesitation in a lot of ways for a lot of places to like explore is like I obviously don't have that much time to travel anymore, and that like I almost like it feels rude to go somewhere for like three days.

00:45:39
Speaker 1: You know.

00:45:39
Speaker 2: It's like I want to, like if there's something that I really want to immerse myself, it's kind of like I put it on like a one day I will.

00:45:45
Speaker 1: Well, what's on the one days?

00:45:47
Speaker 2: South America. I'd love to I honestly would love to spend like i've. I was gone to Italy.

00:45:56
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny because I was. You know, I talk to food people often and they default to Japan and Italy very often, Like there are always the two constants.

00:46:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to me, I of Italy. I love Italian food. I did spend decent I spent you know, a month in Calabria with a friend of mine. Yeah, because he was like rediscovering his ancestry.

00:46:20
Speaker 1: And okay, that's what I did a feature book. When I asked Traveler about Calabria. The opening line was but why, Yeah, the other Italians would say, but why, And.

00:46:29
Speaker 2: That was what most people said when I was like knowing his random place and like I had the most amazing food in the most amazing time. I think it's one of those places where it's just like it almost overwhelms me with how much there is no and going an hour from one place to another fifteen minutes. Yeah, and then similar to like even like Basque region, these are places that like I almost I'll like almost book a trip and then I'm like, I can't do it all in two days, and like I need These are places that I like, I think, anywhere that I feel would change the trajectory of what I'm doing. I'm very hesitant to even starting. Really, yeah, that's so interesting unless I have the time and attention to fully give to it. I mean, I went a few years ago to Portugal for a week, which is that's my I could do a week somewhere, yeah, and that is enough. But I get one week off a year almost, you know right.

00:47:36
Speaker 1: Now, right now that's going to change one day.

00:47:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's right. Yeah, I put them all on the little the little little board. We like started in Porto and Cave drove all the way down and for the next six months, I only cooked like Portuguese food.

00:47:51
Speaker 1: Essentially, what was it about Portugal that just like your imagination?

00:47:57
Speaker 2: The way I thought what was so special about Portugal was how it's very specific, but how cold the water was, Yeah, of course cold, and that you're having cold water fish in this sort of southern yes kind of yes, for sure atmosphere. It felt like something that I could bring to New York, right, And so that's where I came back, and I was like I look at clams in a different way. I look at you know, lobsters in a different way. And that was something that like, you know, we did a menu at GEM that was literally like the Portuguese seafood menu. It was like six months of just like obsessing over like pork and clams together and this sort of these combinations that still are how we you know, it is a huge influence in the food. And you know, I've I don't think I've ever eaten more crabs, and like I just became obsessed with crab and now we literally never have a menu without crab on it. But also just understanding the like the you know breadth of different types of clams. There are crabs, and how you know one dish would require this type and one would require this type, and how I want to eat a dungeonous crab like this, but I want to eat it, you know, all these different things. And I really loved just like the balance between the coast and like you know kind of like how quickly it becomes you know called overde and these kind of like hearty sorts of things. And yeah, I mean I think anywhere that that feels that immersive is somewhere that I'm it's it's it's the same thing where I like, now I will not I refuse to go back to Japan as I will go for like two weeks and I and I if I go back, it's funny. I talk with my girlfriends ever been and I'm like, I'm not going to go back and do like two days here, two days here, Like I would go back and do like two weeks in a region to try to understand it better. And I think that's where that's why I always go back to Frankly, like that's why I keep going back Scandy, Like I like going back to the same places to like try to understand them more entirely, and then it's always nice to, you know, pop somewhere here and there. But I'm very cautious.

00:50:12
Speaker 1: Okay, so we ask all of our friends who come on here just some similar questions. So, where's a place that you always feel at home?

00:50:21
Speaker 2: It's funny what we're talking about. I always feel at home if I'm anywhere near the Pacific Ocean. Very cold oceans, I think really make me feel. I grew up literally like steps away from the beach, and that is always what brings me.

00:50:34
Speaker 1: Home and most out of place.

00:50:37
Speaker 2: I loved going there, but I was in Madrid in the summertime and I just like did not know what to do with myself.

00:50:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:50:46
Speaker 2: Oh, also I was. I was in Amelia, Romania in July in a heat wave and I was just like, I'm not built for this.

00:50:53
Speaker 1: No, like we don't have the skin. No. No.

00:50:56
Speaker 2: And I as much as I love it, it's I'm like I keep being like, like, oh, my summer vacation is London. You know, like these places that are temperate climates.

00:51:04
Speaker 1: I appreciate it fair enough. Where's a place that you would always return Copenhagen and as a place you'd never go back.

00:51:12
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anywhere that I would never go back to. Come on, as I've spoken about, I'm very specific with where I go and travel. There's airports that I'll never go back to.

00:51:23
Speaker 1: If I could never go to an airport ever.

00:51:25
Speaker 2: Again, there's there's you know, there's ones that I really the layover in Manchester was one of the I you know, actually, I don't think I need to go back to Manchester.

00:51:38
Speaker 1: I'm okay, okay, will you go at Manchester? What's favorite hotel?

00:51:42
Speaker 2: This is very hard one, I think in its true kind of singularity. There's a hotel called Junial. It's in like Normandy by the people that have sept Team. I went for like three days and it's that perfect balance of like it's so tiny, it's where you know your cell phone doesn't work there. It was the perfect you have to say, for two nights and they give you his menu at the beginning and you need it's two menus, you need one today, like one and it was just like the most perfect food for what you want. Like being in the countryside. There's just a fridge with like some of the most amazing bottles of wine ever made that you just can grab they. I remember the first day I got there, I got a I was hungry, and I was like, oh, can I get the salami. They bring out a slamy in a knife and it has your room number on it and they hang it up. So if you just want a couple slices, come back down the next day and you take your SLOMMI back down to a couple more slices.

00:52:41
Speaker 1: This is going to be a killer for you. A taste. I'm not going to say favorite, obviously restaurant taste meal that is memorable to you.

00:52:51
Speaker 2: There's a restaurant the little bit I was like a kyoto called Temporamatsu that I think is the the meal that I've had where I left and I just felt like actual bliss and it's there was nothing wrong. There was nothing I could even and like complain about. There's nothing that I was like, ah there. It was just like actually airtight.

00:53:19
Speaker 1: What about market or shop.

00:53:23
Speaker 2: There's a strip it's literally the highway kind of on your as you're on your way from Paris to Loire Valley. What I did was I was in the current attyped in bro Kann and you just start to see there's just like twenty of them in a row. That was one of the best days I've ever had, just discovering that. You're like, go in and it's like a warehouse, and then there's another one twenty minutes further down the road. I think for anyone that loves antiquing, that drive is like there's no good restaurants around it, unfortunately, but you don't have time to eat your shopping exactly.

00:54:02
Speaker 1: Museum cultural institution.

00:54:05
Speaker 2: There's this place that a friend brought me called the Rudolph Tegner's Museum outside of Copenhaga. That was this one guy who made all of these insane, like gigantic sculptures of people, and he essentially created his own museum for his own work. And he's not like a super famous you know, the him creating his own museum is what became famous of it. But you see photos of it and it looks cool, but when you're actually in the space, the scale of these pieces are so like kind of like jarring. And you're in this like it's like a tiny nothing town and there's like this cool little park around it, but it's literally this guy just kind of built his own museum, and like, obviously there's so many amazing museums in the world. I think what 's special about this one is that you're you're not gonna see the pieces anywhere else. You know, it is like made by this one person. Those are always museums I love, like someone's house and someone's house museums. Yeah, very it's actually not so far from like the Finuwel house, like kind of do a back to back cool?

00:55:06
Speaker 1: Okay, this is this is a kind of questions that we ask everyone. And you just need to remember that you don't own a restaurant in New York City, so you're it's completely unincumbered by real life. So where would you spend a weekend, week month a year?

00:55:24
Speaker 2: So weekend, I know I'm pretending I don't live in New York, but I would say weekend honestly, Montreal. I think the kind of small hospitality culture is one that you could go with one reservation and by the end of your meal, your entire weekend is planned. And everywhere you go, they're like they send you and they send you a thing. That's every time I've gone, it's been not even just me. If you're not in the industry. They do the same thing there.

00:55:49
Speaker 1: What about week?

00:55:50
Speaker 2: I think I would spend a week in Copenhagen. I think that's like the perfect amount of time to see everything there, and especially in the summer, It's like one week you might get no rain and then there's always gonna be rained the following week.

00:56:05
Speaker 1: And what about month?

00:56:07
Speaker 2: I would spend a month in Kyoto. I think, just kind of really immersing myself.

00:56:13
Speaker 1: And finally, yeah, I would been a year in New York.

00:56:18
Speaker 2: It's the uh, nothing feels better than completing the year in New York and doing it all over again.

00:56:25
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Okay, So the last thing that I ask everyone is what are you traveling through right now?

00:56:33
Speaker 2: I think I'm traveling through my own space, my own spaces I am. I think being forced to stay like by just having opened a restaurant and kind of like being here. I'm both traveling through like New York on my weekends, trying to like enjoy moving around, but also frequently like re looking at my spaces and trying to feel as though, you know, they're always evolving.

00:56:58
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's the perfect point to end. So thank you, friend. This was gritting