WEBVTT - Tom Corson 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Ups Podcast. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.160 My guest today is Calm Courson, who's presently co chairman 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.320 and CEO of Warrener Records, but he seems to have 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.840 worked at every label, A and M Capital you know, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.320 Sony and now Warner. What makes Warner different from any 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.480 of your other situations. Yeah, this is an exciting thank 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.559 you for having me. First of all, absolutely glad to 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.159 have you here, glad to be We've known each other 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.360 a long time, Absolutely big fan. And you know when 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.560 I think i've we first encountered each other, I don't know, 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:47.120 maybefore at when they had Giant and Brian Adams they 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.559 played on the sound stage in Your wife was pregnant 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:53.479 at the time. I believe she would have been very 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.200 good of you to remember that and delivered a nice, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.320 healthy girl at that time. On top of our boy, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.040 what are they? How old? How old are your kids today? 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:03.960 And thirty? Our daugh will be twenty nine in a week. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.000 What are they up to? Our daughter is just graduated 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.119 from Chinese medical school, so she'll be your acculates, your 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.240 natural path. And our son is in banking, in finance 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.080 and he's an analyst at A at essentially a hedge fund. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.479 And where is that hedge fund? They're both here, Yeah, 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.840 both our kids in l A. Okay, Yeah we did 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.559 meet at A and M for sure. So but let's 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.280 start with today. What makes Warner different from other labels 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.840 with this? Yeah, the opportunity that that I've taken taken 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.520 on a Warner, you know, twenty one months ago, is unique. Um. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.480 You take one of the greatest record labels in the 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.679 history struggling, you know, really trying to find its way, uh, 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.240 and looked at it as an incredible chance to bring 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.800 a great, great mark, a great great brand back to 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:53.200 it's heyday. Okay, And what have you done well in 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.400 the last twenty one months, Bob? We have changed so 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:58.880 much to the label. We've we've we've flipped fifty of 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.600 the roster. We had a very kind of you know, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:06.640 album oriented, not urban, not particularly pop leaning roster, and 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:08.840 we freshened it up with a lot of urban signings, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.280 a lot of pop signings, Uh, artists that weren't you know, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.600 dedicated to just putting out an album in the album 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.000 cycle business. Some that remain are fantastic And if you 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:19.919 think about the Chili Peppers and Green Day and Josh 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.560 Groban and Michael Boubley, amongst others, their perennials. They're all timers. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:25.799 You you know, you don't you don't turn your back 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.000 on them. They're wonderful and uh and they have a 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.880 lot of commercial um vitality in the market. Uh. But 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.119 we needed to refresh the younger, the younger crop. And 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.880 Aaron's come in about a year ago. Aaron Bay Chuck 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.960 my co chairman and CEO. He's put my partner and 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.520 together we were really calling together a fantastic roster. And 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.880 so we've've also changed the attitude and the brand of 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.240 the company. We have a new name, Warner Records, not 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.800 Warner Brothers, a new logo with Mark. We've got a 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.160 new building which is spectacular. We invite everybody to downtown 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.799 l A into the Arts district on Seventh and Sam 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.799 a Heo and it's just a started seventh in Santa Fe. 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.400 Just fantastic. New building was the old Ford Motor Company building. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.920 We've changed the entire senior management of the company and 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.400 quite a few other people and we're bringing a fresh 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.000 new energy to the company that really it hasn't had 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.440 many years. Okay, let's go back a chapter. You at 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.520 r c A. Just before this, I was, uh, how 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.519 did you decide to jump? Yeah? Our c A. We 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.600 we had a great run at our c Peter and 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.200 I took over the label in two thousand eleven. Peter, Yes, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.640 Peter Edge and a longtime friend and colleague of mine. Uh, 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.839 and we put together a company there that I'm really 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.920 proud of, you know. Um. And there were a lot 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:38.520 of things that led to it, I'd always but one 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.400 of the main things I'd always I wanted to move 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.120 back to l A to be with my family because 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.240 our kids moved out here. It was time and as 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.120 you'll remember, I left here in ninety six, and uh, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:48.840 it was time to get back to l A. Had 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.320 always wanted to come back and talked about working by coastal, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.600 which I don't think is really a great leadership strategy, 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.200 and especially when you're working at a turnaround, you need 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.600 to be right in the middle of things. Uh. In 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:01.680 joyed my time at r c A. Got a lot 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.839 of respect for the team. They're built the team there. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.560 You know. I was different part r S as an 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.560 amalgam of a number of labels over many years. Uh, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.480 starting in in two thousand with Jay Records merging into 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.920 Arris and so forth. Um and and that was a 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.680 tough decision. I love Sony, I love the management there, 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.960 but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to move back 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.479 to l a and to to bring Warner Brothers back 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.080 to and now warning Warner Records back to two It's 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.760 Heyday to It's glory. Now are you the one who 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.120 got Aaron bay Shook to come or was that already 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.240 in the works when you made the decision? That was 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.840 already in the works. It was a strategy that Max Lissada, 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.839 who was the CEO of music group Max Um, put 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.040 us together. It was an arranged marriage. Did you know Aaron? 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:44.919 We had met a couple of times, but I didn't 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.200 know him. Um and admired him from a distance. Uh. 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.320 You know, his energy is great, his his track record 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.320 is impressive. Signing Bruno Mars working with some of the 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.120 artists he's worked with over the years. Uh and just 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.520 actually more than anything, just sitting down talking with them 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.920 knowing we had really similar or almost the same values 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.400 of what we wanted to do and uh and where 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.440 we where we weren't quite on the same page. We've 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.320 called cobbled together a strategy and and emission statement and 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.640 and and core values that are really working for the company. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.760 So what does he do and what do you do? Uh? 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.039 In the simplest fashion, I'm the operating guy in the 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.360 marketing and promotion guy, and Aaron is the creative guy 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.320 and signs in A and RS the acts UH. Together, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.000 we we work with our business affairs had Julian Petty 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.600 and we do the deals and UH and and you 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.000 know what, Aaron is the guy out finding and and 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.800 and and recruiting the talent, making the records, finding great 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.720 A and our people, um, but you know, the best companies. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.920 And I think Peter and I had a good, really 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.000 good relationship that way. Great and our people also have 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.240 real good marketing instincts. Great marketing people have great A 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.360 and our instincts, and Aaron embodies that. And as we 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.200 forged together the relationship, I'm really seeing the best of 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.840 him come out. Okay, even though it's more under his purview. 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.760 What is it like being an A and R person today? 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.960 Because certainly in the old days it was about discovering things. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.640 Now everything is available on the internet, So what what 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.000 do you what's the job of the A and Army 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.440 of today. I don't think the job is essentially changed. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:20.640 It's to find amazing artists who make really stellar records 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.719 that hopefully become hits or they become something more more 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.719 more cultural, if you will, and and and kind of 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.960 set a tone for for music and and and for 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.800 great artistry. And there's room for that at great labels still, um. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.120 But essentially it's it's making great records and making hit 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.960 songs and finding and creating stars and and you know. 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.080 So that's that starts with the A and R Department 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:45.920 and the people that are out there doing the research 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.520 and going to see acts and and you know, and 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.360 and it isn't it isn't always the ones with the 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.880 with the greatest data that that end up working, you know. 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.799 But that's that's it's a very data focus, data leaning 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.960 approach these days. And but at the end of the day, 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.440 more than one label usually has the same data, more 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.320 than one A and our person is usually checked out 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.640 the act before we go deeper into the data. UM. 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.960 Having had a long career and most of it at 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.600 the top, have you ever directly signed an act? I have? 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.120 I have a few over there is Pentatonics. I was. 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.520 I was heavily involved with signing radio Head to the 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.480 US label at the time, UM, and and kind of 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.800 led the charge on that to Capital when Halmilgram was 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.480 running it. Uh, you know, and on and on. You know, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.400 I've I've and and i've and I'm always involved in 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.160 in in I'm not always I'm almost always involved in 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.200 everything that signed. Le tell us the story of Pentatonics 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.840 because that was certainly something from left field relative the 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.480 traditional record business and was ultra successful. Yeah. Look they 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.040 had there, they came off the sing off they had 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.600 you know, nobody picked him up that it was a 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.360 direct to Sony sort of relationship. Um. Other labels had 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.280 passed on. In fact, we passed on him a number 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:57.640 of times. For those who don't know. This is an 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.800 acapella group. Yes, a very unusual group who now doing 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.400 arenas and and have our superstars you know, and wonderful 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.760 people as well. Uh. They I've been watching them for 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:11.240 a while and and and and Linny Beer had who Yeah, 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.880 but he co manages them with Jonathan Caulter and and 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.520 the Hits management team does it. Had brought it to 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.280 me a couple of times and I've taken in the 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.200 CD A and R meeting, and I got the answer 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.480 I expected, which was, Hey, this is great, but we 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.400 don't get it. We don't know how that fits into 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.320 what we do. And at some point what happened was 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.760 we just saw what was going on at the time 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.520 at iTunes that their Christmas EP was going off going, 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.120 so they put that out independently. They did how long 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.240 after the TV show that was about, Well, it depends 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.000 on which piece of product, but at the time we 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:42.560 looked at it, I believe it was about three years 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.080 after after they were okay. So it's just funny that 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.480 there's that much, you know, stickiness in the marketplace. Yeah, well, 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.800 they broke off a YouTube Initially, they had their own 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.280 YouTube channel. They were like a top twenty YouTube music channel, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.719 and and everyone was sort of like not liking them. 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.120 They weren't they weren't they weren't sexy or ed g 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.240 in the way that labels generally look at things. And 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.480 and so I've always had a marketing as you know, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.080 my I'm a marketer by by training, and so I 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.200 looked at it and eventually I just went to Peter 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.439 and I said, Peter, I'm signing this, and he was 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.040 very supportive and he said, okay, great, I hope it works. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.439 You know, I said, it's gonna work to some degree. 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.280 We're not gonna lose money because you can see what's 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.800 going on here, and because I like to think I'm 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:23.760 a pretty good marketer. We knew what to do with it. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.600 The team bought in, Uh, well what did you do 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.600 with it? Well, you know, we we did the things 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.040 that they were incapable of doing in terms of maybe 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.079 funding or having access to the right things. And ultimately 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.120 it was making sure that you know, the product was 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.520 was well explained to retail at the time because a 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.240 lot of it was was physical that we already had 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.319 a partner in Apple and iTunes, who were very supportive. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.560 Amazon had at that time was was you know, more 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.560 physical leading, and they they really saw a market for it. 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.280 You can imagine with the Amazon consumer being maybe a 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.079 little bit older and a little bit more mainstream and 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.520 a little bit where our center of America not coastal 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.880 and hipster leaning, that was a no brainer for them. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.360 Up in the YouTube was an incredible partner. We doubled 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.360 down on YouTube and video and the way you go 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.680 about it and so forth, and we just for those 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.640 who don't know. When you're in the belly of the beast, 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.720 how do you double down on YouTube? What does that 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.600 look like? Well, you know you can you you dissect 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.120 the algorithm. You look at all the different various touch 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.400 points where you can reach an audience. You have data 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.520 and information. It's a little bit slower, so what might 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.800 those touch points be? Uh, you know, different YouTube channels 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.440 you g C opportunities that you know you can you 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.280 can point to and and have people do their own 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.959 kind of versions of videos if you will, or whatever 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.360 happens in the u g C page really slow. Okay, 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.720 you have something you want to work. It has some traction. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.120 So then you search who has a good audience on 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.480 YouTube and approach them. Yeah you have you did the research. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.960 You didn't like audiences where they're sharing, where there's some crossover, 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.439 and then you put these these Then you pitch these 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.640 videos for playlisting or whatever within the YouTube you know ecosphere. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.240 And it's changed a lot since then, but it's essentially 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.080 let's jump. Yeah, then that's how you would do it. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.800 Now it's, as I say, since that physical error is 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.600 essentially over, how do you deal with YouTube. Now, um well, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.560 YouTube is a great partner. They they they they are 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.320 the you know you you you you like anybody you 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.719 introduced them to. The artists you get you get them 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.480 the information, You get them excited about about the content, 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.680 and you differentiate the artist from one another from thousands 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.320 of other artists. You might be, you know, a band, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.880 or a white female or an urban person or you 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.600 know whatever, whatever they whatever, the kind of category you 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.040 put them in, and and and and and obviously you know, 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.040 they've got to get excited about the music and the 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.040 content that's presented. Because we're storytellers, you know, we're brand builders. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.600 At the end of the day, we work very obviously, 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.160 we work with the brand, which is the hardest product. 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.920 And you know, we sit there and say, okay, well 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.000 you are you you you are similar to these sort 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.760 of artists or these sort of you know records. And 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.080 I always say, you know, I know you're totally unique, 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:03.680 but what do you sound like? That's right, what do 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.839 you sound like? And what what are you about? And 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.040 you and with everything going socially today, you know, it's 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.400 ultimately all about the music and the content, but it's 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.720 also you know, about the story, about the conversation that 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.200 they're having directly with their fans, you know, and then 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.360 we amplify that, you know, by by going to places, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.040 whether it's playlisting that they can't get because they're not 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.040 necessarily aligned or can't get in the media. Let's just 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.800 assume that just stupid. Let's go back one more chapter though, 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.280 so it tell us the stories signing Radiohead. Yeah, well Radiohead. 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.320 What happened was it was passed on by every US 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.600 label in the EMI system at the time. Um, everyone 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.120 was excited about other acts. They were a little more 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.000 already creep was. It was a modest hit in the UK, 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.880 and then all of a sudden and it's it's it's 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.480 such an old school story, but all of a sudden, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.600 Live on A five specialty show started playing it in 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.079 San Francisco, and we noticed because I was trying to 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.040 get it signed to to Capital, and so I went 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.280 to my wonderful US at the time, Hill Milgram. I said, hey, Hale, 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.360 you see what's going on over here. And there's a 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.560 guy named Rob Gordon who deserves full credit too. We 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.960 were both excited about it. Now he switched to Warner Brothers. 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.719 Where's Rob today? I think Rob's freelancing. I think he's 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.880 a consultant. Um and and Rob and I got excited 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.959 and said, do you mind if we take uh, if 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.320 we take five thousand CD singles and see the market 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.840 in the Bay Area And they sold out immediately and 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.040 then the rest is sort of history. So did I 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.520 signed them, pick them up? Whatever? Okay? But I was 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.880 very I was very instrumental doing okay, But did you 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.439 have an inkling of what they would turn into? No? 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.440 I thought I thought they were great. But you know, 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.560 Pablo Honey is a good It's a really good album. 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.760 It's not their best album. You know. I'll let everyone 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.680 argue about whether each one it is. I mean, they're 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.479 all they all have their own special place in folks hearts, 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.440 but they but Tom was special. The players in the 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.040 band were really solid. They were growing as a live band. Uh. 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.320 They had a point of view. And and when the 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.320 Bins came in and we heard that album, uh, it 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.040 was like, oh my god, this is a great act. 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.560 And uh. I left shortly thereafter and moved to Columbia. 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.200 But I'm really proud of the band. And they were 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.200 wonderful people. And and the two managers were terrific and 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.080 we had a great time. And you know they've gone 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.080 on on to do to be radio ahead. And let's 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:21.960 stay with that for one second, because a lot of 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.520 bands with longevity will say I signed and everybody was here. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.320 I'm still at the label. Nobody I ever had any 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.840 business with its still there. So what's that like when 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.320 you're trying to convince people to go with you? Yeah, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:36.960 you know, well, look I I point out that I 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:38.840 was at at our c A and some version of 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.040 it for almost twenty years, you know, And so I'm 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.040 not a guy who's bounced around a lot, even though 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.440 I I had an average in my first you know, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.440 maybe fifteen twenty years of my career of every five 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.080 or six years moving labels, which you know, I think 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:53.920 for a young person in the business is not a 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.200 bad strategy. Get different experiences, work with different people, make relationships, 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.200 um and and and have more than one way to 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.560 do things and and labels are different and experiences are different. Uh. 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.480 But and then settling down where I really enjoyed the 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.680 whole process that that I experienced from two thousand to 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.400 two thousand eighteen of of being in that system, and 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.920 I liked I liked the BMG and Sony systems a lot. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.640 And I think that that that they were very good 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.640 to to to what I was trying to accomplish, which was, 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.640 you know, helped create big stars and big brands and 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.720 nurture the ones that were on their way. Um, and 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:31.440 we had a great team. I worked for some of 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.720 the all time great people in the business, you know. 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.720 So I uh, you know, you know that process was 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.320 was really a lot of fun. And um, let's get 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.400 back to the question I think I've lost. You know, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.040 you said you were there for eighteen years and I 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.280 sell artists. Yeah, Look, I tell artists is like I'm 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.040 a stable guy. I plan on being here for a 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:55.240 long time, you know. And uh and and because you 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.640 know you as an artist that that you know, you're 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.400 sitting there and it's there. They're on their own, you know, 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.320 in a lot of ways. They're they're the brand, they're 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.400 on the marquee, they're on the on the top of 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.000 the of the package, whatever that looks like, whether it's 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.520 digital or physical. And so at the end of the day, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.040 you know, whether it works or not, it's on it's 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.640 on them. And what happens in the meantime they have 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.120 to own. So so my pitch to them is like, look, 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.200 I plan on being around Aaron plans on being around 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.760 here for a long time, you know, and uh and 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.280 and so our expectation is that will be going through 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.280 many cycles together, many ups and downs, but that will 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.680 have some measure of success and satisfaction together. Uh, you know, 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.240 and and and that doesn't always work out, you know, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.000 people change. And I'm the whatever, i am the fifth 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:45.320 leader of of Warner Records, Warner Brothers Records. But you know, 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.640 what I'd like to think is that my track record 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.560 will help and my success will help pave a way 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.720 for a really stable company for a long time. That's actually, 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.440 that's actually okay, let's really slow it down and start. Okay, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.040 I'm an artist, Okay, we'll make it really left field. 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:08.119 I'm a very successful klezmer artist. Will you sign music 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.360 in any genre or music that you feel is the 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.639 easiest to market to the largest segment of the market, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.399 which now is basically hip hop and pop um. We 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:24.160 may not sign the klezmer artist, however, you know, we're 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.679 we're interested in artists that move culture. We're interested in 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.320 artists that move units. We're interested an artist that want 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.280 hits and want to be global. Um, we're a big 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.800 major label. So we have a new mission statement art 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.600 plus impact art representing the scrappiness of an indie and 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.760 the ability to be open to different forms of music. 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.639 So we're generalists in that sense, you know. And at 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.680 the same time, we're we're we're we're broadly generalists and 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.600 globalists that we want to create an impact that an 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.600 impact of a major can can can provide. So therefore, 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.040 the short answer is we're open to things that can 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.280 really move culture and move units and and be big 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.840 global Okay, talking presently, let's just say I'm a rock band. 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:12.080 I have fewer than a million streams on Spotify, and 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.800 I don't have a big audience on YouTube. But when 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.199 you when people see them this act, they say, this 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.800 is unbelievable. Yeah, what does what does warners say that? 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.120 I think we? I think we. Then it's a value judgment, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.119 you know. Then it's like, do we have a vision? 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.360 Do we have a shared vision for this artist? When 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.480 we sit down with them, we're excited about them, we 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.080 see potential. So it's old school A and R. You know, 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.760 it's old school marketing. It's like Hey, do we see 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.080 a path for this artist that maybe not everybody sees, 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.639 you know, and everybody has their own unique lens that 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.200 they look at artists through. Because once then, by the way, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.639 even if the data is great, you know, and the 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.280 data points you in a certain direction, uh, there are 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.120 a number of labels that won't go after something they 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.119 have because that then it comes down to the taste 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.440 and the culture within the label and where the artist 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.439 fits and do we have a point of view, do 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.280 we have a vision for this artist and does is 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.560 it shared with the artist? And so you know, there 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.919 are very few artists that that all labels go for, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.720 you know, and for different reasons, but a lot of 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.520 it is cultural. They just they don't mesh up nicely. 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.159 You have a good meeting with one label, you have 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.520 not such a good meeting with another label. And so 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.960 from our standpoint, you know, it's can be data driven, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:24.679 but at the end of the day, we have to 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.560 feel the music. Okay. So you stated earlier that you've 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:33.320 uh moved Warner more into the urban sphere. So if 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.159 you look at the data today, if we look at 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.600 Spotify top fifty, that is almost all hip hop and 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.600 pop and for those people who don't make that kind 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.920 of music. Is a major label the right place for them? 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.320 Are you interested in them? So that we have an artist, 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.480 Suburban that we signed right now and and which is 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:56.879 streaming like a growing pop hip hop artist, but he's 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.800 like more rock leaning, you know, and now starting to 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.159 try at alternative radio. So okay, so let's start with that. 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.200 When you signed Suburban, what was the status of both 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.119 the act and touring and data, etcetera. It was just 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.040 a song that an Indian put out that we noticed 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.840 that was that was that was streaming, that was moving. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.320 It wasn't six million globally like it is now, but 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.480 it was and it got our attention. And then you 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.760 get into the qualitative part of it, Okay, the subjective part. 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.200 You know, we thought that we heard a couple more songs. 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.359 We were excited by that, we've met the kids. Okay, 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.280 just to be clear, someone on your team just found it. 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.080 It wasn't like you were pitched by a manager region. 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.720 It was very early and there and and and the 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.200 song it was with an indie called NCS out of 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.280 the UK, so we had to go through that as well. 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.199 But one of our and R guys Stephen Max cited it, 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.960 picked it up, somebody tipped him to it, He dug 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.240 in deeply. He went out and met the artist the 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.119 whole thing and brought it in and said, hey, I 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.440 want to sign this, and we shared that vision. And 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.520 then we when we met Suburban the artist, we thought 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.399 he was terrific. He we thought he had potential. He 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.879 played a couple more songs, told us his vision for 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.480 his video of Cradles that just dropped a week or 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.199 two ago, and we thought, yeah, we we believe we 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.640 share that vision. Okay, if you sign an act like that, 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.919 is it a traditional deals shall we say, pre internet? 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.920 Where you get a royalty depending on whether it's wholesale retail, 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.639 you know, twelve to twenty or is it more of 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:26.199 a revenue split after costs? What? What is? There's no 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.520 such thing as a standard deal, but someone in that position, 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.000 what kind of deal might they be a? You know, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.119 to be honest, I don't remember that specific deal, but 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.520 there's there. There's all sorts of deals that can happen 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:37.880 now and it depends, like everything, it depends on what 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.560 you want, how that fits with our economics, What leverage 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.159 you have, what leverage we have, you know, and and 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.040 and how you're positioned within within the genre, because there's 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.879 certain genres that are leaning more towards ventures now where 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.760 others are more royalty leaning um, which which more hip hop, 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.080 more hip hop, some pop, but more hip hop because 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.400 hip hop, those are leading in which way a little 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.560 bit more venture, a little more profit shares. But there's exceptions, 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.119 you know, and and and and we're not you know, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.000 we're open to whatever as long as we have a 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.520 fairly you know, long term you know, um investment or 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:13.800 a long term relationship with the act over you know, 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:15.639 four or five albums. You know, we'll do we'll do 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.159 lesser from time to time, but our feeling is that 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:20.359 this is a long term relationship. We're going to build 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:22.760 a lot of asset value together, and you know, we're 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.560 gonna invest and you know, you know, the odds, the 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.719 odds are that it won't work, you know, and and 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.919 so but we're going to go in and seven figure 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.919 level and in almost every case, and and you know, 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.280 sometimes high seven figure levels before we really see what 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.639 we've got. And and we're up for that. So we 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:41.879 want to know we're in it together. Forget the Bidding 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.359 War Act the average act at this point. You know, 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.960 people don't use this term that much anymore, But is 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.040 it going to have to be a three sixty deal? 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.679 We prefer those and and look at the view on that, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:54.359 and they're not as egregious as they used to be 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.680 when people are taking of everything that that I haven't 0:22:57.680 --> 0:22:59.919 seen for a long time. Um, we have a longer, 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.080 more partnership approach we have. We do have a merch 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.120 company and an artist called Artist Services. They're very good 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.159 at what they do. They handle both artists within the 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.120 Warner Music Group and outside. So we feel we can 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.640 scale that in terms of the requirement if you don't 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.000 have a merch deal to sign with your house is 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.239 not it is not. We'd prefer it, and but it 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.119 makes things easier on on on a DTC level, on 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.280 a v I P level, on a merched level, we 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:25.080 can we it's more holistic and and and there's a 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.000 there's a shorter line of communication, that more efficient line 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:35.480 of communication. Okay, So I've always wondered people might say, 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:37.520 and I'm not who I'm talking about history as opposed 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:42.280 to you, and uh, specifically that royalties are not that 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.240 accurate or get paid by the labels, How does the 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.960 label ensure that they're not screwed by the act I'm 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:53.159 touring in whatever other income there is. Well, we have 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.240 we have language in the agreements that we expect people 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.440 to honor. And at the end of the day, there 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.639 are acts. Most acts do pay you and there and 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.399 they there's there, they step up and there may be 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.920 some accounting that that is might be missing a piece 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:09.879 or two from time to time, so you have to 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:13.200 sometimes have that conversation. But by and large, the acts 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:15.240 or stand up acts and the ones that choose maybe 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.840 not to pay you, there's recourse, um, you know, and 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.879 and you'd prefer to avoid that and just have a 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.760 straight up relationship. Um, but you know, there's future advances 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:27.119 and royalties and this and that, and you might have 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:28.920 a language in the deal that says, hey, we can 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:33.720 recover you know, unpaid three sixty revenue from somewhere else. Um. 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:35.560 It depends on the deal, It depends on the label 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:37.560 and when it was done, you know, but we'd prefer 0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:40.160 not to get Okay, So let's just assume I have, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:45.000 you know, a three album deal within five years and 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.240 it plays out and we both decide to go our 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:53.360 separate ways. Let's just assume you own the Masters, Okay, uh? 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.080 Is there are there any sunset clauses or anything on 0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:59.040 these other streams of revenue. There may be, you know, 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.240 there may be, but more likely when when our deal expires, 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:04.600 it expires and you move on. But there may be 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.080 a sunset clause depending on the nature of the conversation 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:08.520 at the time of the deal was done. Let's go 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.880 to the other extreme, someone like Little Nasax, someone who's 0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:15.560 blowing up traditionally hip hop acts in the last thirty 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:20.040 six months. The data is there, they're streaming, they're part 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.560 of are is that something you're interested in getting into? 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:27.919 I'm sorry, something that has proven itself such that they 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.119 are willing to go with a major label. But the 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:32.199 deal is going to be harsh. Yeah. Look, and by 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:33.959 the way, that the deal for a Little nos X 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:36.320 wasn't harsh, you know. Um, But look, we have an 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:38.800 act called n l E. Choppa and Choppa had a 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:40.800 track called shot a Flow, or has a track called 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.439 shot a Flow which blew up and it was on 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.760 an indie called United Masters. And you know, but it 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:50.800 was one of the United Masters what's his name? Yeah, 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:53.720 so so, but he didn't really have any futures, you know, 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:56.359 he had a he had a short window. Um, and 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.199 so we went after it and and and it was 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.760 a very robust deal and at the end of the 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.680 day we penciled it out and we got the deal. Um. 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:07.840 We developed. We believe in the kid. We think with 0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:10.000 his name is Bryson. We think he's a star and 0:26:10.320 --> 0:26:12.840 just dropped a track in a video called Camelot, which 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:17.399 is exploding million streams a week globally. He's he's a 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:20.840 video you know figure. He just reacts video wise as well, 0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:23.880 and we feel like we got one, you know. Um, 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:26.960 but he's it's a little early for we're now crossing 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:29.600 in into urban radio. It's more of a traditional move 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:31.679 in that sense. Little Nazex has proven to be more 0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.560 of a pop facing act at the moment. We're very 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:39.080 envious of his of his success and excited for for Columbia. 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.119 But you know, we feel like, you know, we've got 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:43.040 a couple of our own that we're building as well. 0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:45.440 But we're up. We're up for picking up quick hits. 0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:48.000 I mean absolutely, we're in that business. But we're also 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:52.040 in the long term artist development business. Okay, but that 0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.680 you're signing more urban artists as opposed to the old 0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:59.080 album cycle. So let's assume you signed an active urban 0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:02.000 urban and pop. But at the same time, we're broadening. 0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.119 We're a full service company. We've signed rock acts, we 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:07.159 signed you know, we're we're open to just great artists. Okay, 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:09.320 So let's but just for the sake of discussion, well, 0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:12.560 any new artists you signed. Okay, in the old days, 0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:15.919 everybody wanted to make their album. Let's just assume I 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:19.119 don't have incredible traction in the marketplace. What is the 0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:23.000 label going to say relative to product? The label is 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:25.600 gonna say, let's we're gonna air on the side of 0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:28.600 putting out more product than less. We're gonna do it 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:32.800 in a way that is customer bespoke to that artist trajectory. 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:35.919 We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it, uh my 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:40.320 British relationship. We're gonna do it in a fashion where 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:42.480 we feel like we have the story and the content 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:45.679 build around it that makes sense. We're gonna learn probably 0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:48.399 more a track by track and maybe an EP or 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:52.040 a mixtape depending on what genre it's in. Um and 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:55.640 but albums are albums still matter because albums become sort 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:59.040 of the anchor in most cases for the artist brand. 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:01.400 You know, what do you name the tour? What's the 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:03.399 theme to what the artist is doing at the moment, 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:05.760 What are this what's the storyline through the album? In 0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:08.760 many cases, that is the narrative that takes this beyond 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:12.160 just music and and and just a video. So it's 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:15.360 talked about socially, it's talked about in fashion. Remember, these 0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:17.639 artists are brands. They have they have they there are 0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:19.640 three and there are three sixty brands in the sense 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:22.320 that they can do once they're established and they don't 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.680 even have to be that big start working with brands 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:27.320 and being considered for film and TV, and you know, 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:30.560 it's a it's a multimedia kind of marketplace now and 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:33.320 we need to to to keep that in mind whenever 0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:36.719 we do things. So the the the cycle you know, 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:40.800 is always on. However, you have to have a reason 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:42.960 to come to market with music. You can't just put 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.920 it out in hope. And so that's where we work 0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:47.920 very hard, and that's part of the brand building and 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:50.400 the narrative and the storyline that that really is the 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:53.480 essential part of like why this artist, why now? Why 0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:56.080 this music? Why this video, et cetera. What's the story. Okay, 0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.280 let's just say you have an artist and a new 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:02.800 artist real watively unknown. Is it basically fishing? You put 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.360 out single and single and then once if hopefully you 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.560 get traction, then you work on that single specifically. Um, 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:11.600 that's one. That's one strategy. Yeah, And and that's that's 0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.600 a fairly tried and true strategy. And and what you're 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:16.640 doing with the singles, you're not necessary or the songs 0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:18.719 or whatever you want to call the tracks. You're not 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.920 expecting everyone to be a single single means kind of 0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:24.200 your you're you're out with the expectation that it's some 0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:27.240 form of a hit. You know, you're you're, you're Sometimes 0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:29.000 you're just telling a story. You know. We might be 0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:31.200 out with a single and put out a couple of 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:35.560 tracks because maybe that maybe that single needs sort of 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.880 sustenance under it and more of the artist conversation, something 0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.280 for the artist to talk about while they're while they're 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.880 working the single, something for the fans to relate to, 0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:46.520 or it has a different reason. So it's all, it's 0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:50.920 all custom, it's all, it's all individually done. Okay, Now, 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:54.360 my friend Richard Griffiths who managed One Direction and still 0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:58.200 manages Nile Horran and a million million other people. He said, 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:01.320 a stiff no longer hurt you. That if you put 0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:04.640 out a single it doesn't succeed, there's no tarnish your 0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:06.520 career as long as you come up with hit thereafter. 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:08.480 Would you agree with that? Yeah, I think I'd largely 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:11.520 agree with that. But I would say, you know, failure 0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:16.520 always stings, and and and and and it always hopefully 0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:19.640 it's a learning moment and a learning experience, and you 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:23.480 don't double down on something that didn't work. But but 0:30:23.600 --> 0:30:25.800 you've got it. You can't have too many failures in 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:28.200 a row, you know. And then, because I think, then 0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.360 the question is are we doing the right thing? Is 0:30:30.400 --> 0:30:33.360 this the right music? Is this the right artist? Is 0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:35.760 this actually somebody we can scale to your point earlier, 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:39.680 our point earlier? Failure is the norm, you know, success 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:48.880 is unusual when you give up. Okay, So going back 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:52.040 to the I didn't really formulate this question back to 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:55.200 the Spotify top fifty, which is essentially hip hop and pop. 0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:59.240 Well that I know you're a full service company, but 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:02.360 would you leave that way because that is definitive of 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:05.920 a lucrative marketplace. Well, I mean we have to be competitive, right, 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:07.000 we have to. We have a I have a p 0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:08.680 n L to to meet, I have a budget to 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.960 to serve to our our owner, you know, and and 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:14.479 and and our team, and so of course we have 0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:16.400 to be we have to serve the market and what 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:19.040 the market wants. But you know that doesn't mean you're 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.840 just I mean, what the mistake we could make was 0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:24.160 just doing the same thing that everybody else is doing, 0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:26.160 going to try and to find another little naz X 0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:28.120 or whatever, who's a needle in a haystack, by the way, 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:30.640 I mean, I mean, you know, but we want to 0:31:30.680 --> 0:31:33.720 find something that we think is next. Is next in 0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:35.960 hip hop and pop and and you know, pop and 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.960 hip hop and music mute mutate every day. They mutate 0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:42.080 all the time, you hear it. Sounds come in, flavors 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:45.719 come in, hairstyles come in, you know, fashion comes in 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:49.120 different ways of breaking things. TikTok didn't matter a year ago, 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:52.520 it's now it's now pushing artists up into the ecosystem 0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:57.320 dramatically and quickly. Um So, yeah, but you know, I 0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:00.200 wouldn't be surprised if the next thing that came along 0:32:00.320 --> 0:32:04.320 with some new form of rock that that stunned everybody. 0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:06.120 I mean, I mean, it wasn't long ago. The twenty 0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:10.120 one pilots, you know, kind of just made this gargantian 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:14.440 leap from from the alternative sort of touring business to 0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:18.080 having pop hits. You know, Um, I I see that 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:20.720 coming again. You know it's it's definitely on it. So 0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:24.600 so you know, you can't chase after a genre that 0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:27.000 isn't working. That would be fool harder. You do have 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:30.080 to pay attention to the market forces, but you can't 0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:33.400 also ignore the fact that music and genres mutate and 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:37.480 and red redefine and reinvent themselves. Well, certainly on Spotify 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:39.880 were all the data of the terms of the number 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.320 of streams is visible to everybody if they know how 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:45.480 to extract it from the desktop. Although it's on the 0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:50.440 most successful singles on every app. Uh, that's hard data. 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:55.880 How important is the Billboard chart to you? Billboard chart 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:59.280 is important? Um, it's it's it's it's a it's a 0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:05.960 measure success. It's marketing, it's advertising, it's it's a way 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:09.240 to kind of look at your competition. We are a business. 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.960 We have to have key performance indicators that we can 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:16.400 show to justify our needs and also to pitch to 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:19.800 artists and managers and lawyers and say, look, we're competitive, 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:23.400 we have x number of records in the top one hundred. 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:25.120 We have this sort of market share, this sort of 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:28.840 chart share. This is why we're viable, and and and 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:31.560 and and and so it does matter. And do we 0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:34.840 live and die off of it every day? No, you know, 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:37.200 because every day is a different day. We have different 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:40.040 needs and goals as we as we move along. But 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:43.840 charts matter, and charts. Charts are also fun. It's fun 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:47.440 to be number one, top ten, good to be the king. 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:49.600 It is. But what about you know, many people say 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:55.720 there's manipulation on the chart now because people are bundlings. Yeah, yeah, 0:33:55.880 --> 0:34:00.600 I mean, yes, that's a form of manipulation. It is. 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:03.520 It is, it is official, it is we we all 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:07.040 have opportunity to do it. UM. I don't think that 0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:10.040 it's artificial in most cases. I think that it's if 0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:13.480 someone's gaming it, then they're smarter than I am, and 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:16.160 and that's not hard to do. But you know, being 0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:22.480 smarter than me not it. But you know, it's you know, 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:27.319 it's unique that you can really drive that much UM 0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:30.040 product you know, you have to be a pretty substantial 0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:32.719 to make it matter to begin with. So so you've 0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:35.399 got to get there first and then you can figure out, 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.600 you know, what maneuvers you can make. But you know, 0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:41.600 my my feeling is like game on, you know, I mean, 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.080 you know, as if the consumer is parting with their 0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:46.680 hard earned money and they're voting for their artists, and 0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:50.200 as long as you're not doing something that that is 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:53.839 is untoward and and and and and you're gaming it, 0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:57.279 then then so be it. But it should be transparent. 0:34:57.320 --> 0:34:59.120 It should be clear what the rules are. It should 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:02.680 it shouldn't war for every three months because somebody's lobbying, 0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:04.600 you know, to get a number one. It should we 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:06.279 know it's this and it's not that, and it should 0:35:06.320 --> 0:35:09.640 be very clear. And billboards making great strides to do that, Okay. 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:14.600 And how important is radio today? Radio is very important today? Um, 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:16.759 different in a different way than it was before because 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.360 radio is a lot of different things now too, um 0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:22.400 because they you know, they have streaming capabilities. Certainly I 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:26.040 heeart does and and and XM serious. XM is is 0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:28.640 a great are great marketers, and they're they're great at 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:32.399 you know, providing a really interesting service and what they do. 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:34.759 Um and you know, when you look at what I 0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:38.719 Heeart does and and some of the other chains they 0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:42.160 they build out and have, you know, shows and TV 0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:45.719 shows and events, uh and brand affiliations, it can be 0:35:45.840 --> 0:35:49.520 very very helpful. Um So, while while we're going through 0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:54.080 a phase where airplay itself isn't maybe where people discover 0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:56.799 music the way they used to five or six years ago, 0:35:57.360 --> 0:36:00.880 there's an element of that that is still there with 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:03.439 a certain consumer that maybe isn't streaming or just loves 0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:05.640 radio and they love the theater of radio and in 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:08.120 the relationship they have with it because as you remember, 0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:11.640 radio's local, you know, whereas you know, streaming is global, 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:14.560 and you know, and and so there's an opportunity at 0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:17.480 that raded that the smart programmers and smart marketers at 0:36:17.560 --> 0:36:21.240 radio have to continue to to amplify both the scale 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:24.240 of what they've got and actually keep things local and 0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:26.960 and you know, it's a it's a different form of entertainment. 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:29.360 But we don't live and die on radio quite the 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:31.880 same way we used to. But in order to really 0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:36.120 scale a hit song, you've got to have radio. Okay, Now, 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:40.080 in you know, decades past, a record could have less 0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:43.560 than a two month lifespan on radio. Now the record 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:46.600 can go for a year. Okay, how do you feel? 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:48.799 And of course, Lizzo, the record is in the marketplace 0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:52.000 for a long time before it gets on radio. How 0:36:52.040 --> 0:36:54.440 does this affect you on your red I'm sure you're 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:57.239 frustrated to throw on slots on these stations. Yeah, well 0:36:57.280 --> 0:37:02.200 look yes, but at the same time, you know, there, 0:37:02.360 --> 0:37:07.080 I don't feel it's that I don't feel we're that 0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:09.040 challenged at the moment. I think it's always hard to 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.960 get your song played and and to explain a new song, 0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:14.239 especially off a new act, and so forth and so on. 0:37:14.600 --> 0:37:16.799 And the Lizzo story is amazing. Hats off to her 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:20.600 and to her team in Atlantic. Um. But yeah, I'd 0:37:20.640 --> 0:37:23.120 like I'd like it to cycle in and out. I'd like, 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:26.560 you know, they're not to be thirty week number one records. 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:30.400 I'd like, you know, we'd like to see it be 0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:33.560 more fluid. Um pop still is pretty good at that, 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:38.399 you know, um other formats alternative seems to take forever. Um. 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:40.680 I don't think it's healthy for the formats and healthy 0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:43.680 for the it's certainly not healthy for the artists and 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.359 and you know, for us, we're partners with radio, So 0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:48.960 I just think it's a challenge. They have to kind 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:52.000 of think their way through it. But they're they're selling advertising, 0:37:52.040 --> 0:37:53.680 they're in they're in a different game than we are. 0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:56.360 They need familiarity and comfort, and the listener wants it, 0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.040 needs to go there and and and and feel like 0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:02.120 they are being super served with what they want and need. 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:05.920 Unfamiliarity is challenging. It doesn't It isn't always something that 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:09.880 the consumer wants. Okay, So in the old day, certain 0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:14.160 publicity goals be on late night TV, be covered in 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:18.680 the newspaper. Uh eight of those things work and be 0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:21.600 if and if they do or they do not. Where 0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:25.160 you focus your marketing efforts these days? Yeah, well, just 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:27.680 sit to answer the last part of that question. A 0:38:27.719 --> 0:38:30.680 lot of the marketing efforts is some form of digital connection, 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:34.200 you know, a social connection. So whether that's you know, 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:38.280 paid uh paid media to to bring attention to an act, 0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:42.200 or whether it's uh moving artists into a space or 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:45.399 creating content. Let's just be a little you know, let's 0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:48.279 assume you're buying as your paid media. What would that 0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:51.319 literally look like online? It depends on which on which 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:54.480 which platform here which platform is, Well, we use all 0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:56.520 of them and and they're different depending on the song 0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:58.279 in the genre and how the artist moves and whether 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:00.200 the urban or pop or let's start with the big 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.719 cohuna Instagram. What might you do on Instagram? Well, instagrams, 0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:06.480 you know, that's more of an artist to fan, you know, 0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:10.279 relationship and and and and unless you know, we'll we'll 0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:12.239 do some we'll do some paid media on that. But 0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:14.439 it's it's it's more of a of what you put 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.520 up their content wise, so we'll invest in content, whatever 0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:20.920 that is. We'll invest in whatever that means the story, 0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:23.759 whether it's fashion one moment or whether it's you know, 0:39:23.840 --> 0:39:26.600 teasing the song the next moment or showing something from 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.480 the live show. And that's artists driven. That's really that's 0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:32.400 really direct relationship, as direct as you can get from 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:34.759 the artists to their to their following. You know. And 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:38.800 what would you advertise or do something on Twitter? Probably 0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:40.960 not we I mean, we we will do things on Twitter, 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:44.000 and we won't advertise much on Twitter, um, but but 0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:47.160 you know, we'll try things out. And Facebook has Facebook 0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:49.120 still is relevant for a certain type of acts, and 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:51.319 obviously they have the biggest scale out there and you 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:53.480 can move the needle. We did it recently with Michael 0:39:53.480 --> 0:39:55.279 bou Bleg you know and and and what did you 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:57.759 actually do? We took some ads that that pointed to 0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:00.200 this song forever Now, and it was an activation that 0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:05.000 happened organically off of a mom's related site and there 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:08.000 was a little bit slower taking the ads on Facebook 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:09.800 and then what so, here's what happened. There was a 0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:12.880 video for forever Now. Michael has a song out Forever 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:15.720 and Now, off his last latest album, and the video 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:19.560 was about essentially a kid growing that an empty room 0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:21.320 that changed as a kid grew old, and then the 0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:23.080 kid went off to college and the boxes went up 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.040 and it happened to be picked up by um I 0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:29.560 believe motherly dot com a side directed to moms at 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:31.759 the time when kids were going back to school, and 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:35.160 so it evoked an emotion and it went viral, and 0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:38.840 so we were looking to spend that into more spends 0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:41.160 it radio and more sales of the album. So we 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:44.080 took some ads to to kind of to to amplify 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:47.399 that that emotion, to amplify that video and to point 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:49.920 to people, and then we got our press department involved 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:52.560 so it was. I think Hoda was talking about it 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:54.719 on the Today Show, and you know, we brought it 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:57.480 to everybody's attention. That's our job, that's the amplification part 0:40:57.480 --> 0:40:59.440 of it. You might miss it if we didn't publicize it. 0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:01.880 You might miss it if we didn't advertise it. And 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:03.920 we have the resources and the staff to do that. 0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:06.000 You know, that's what a major label staying with a 0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:08.880 major label. Chance the rapper famously did not have a MA. 0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:12.839 But is c Suee generous? Is there just one of him? 0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:15.680 Or how often are you interested in the act? They 0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:18.760 say no, I want to do it myself. What happened 0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:22.760 very seldom. Chance appears to be a bit of a unicorn. 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:26.520 They come along every so often and Pat more power 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:28.960 to him and his team. You know, we actually have 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:31.080 a label deal with his manager, Pat Corkran that we 0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:34.240 just spun up this year and it's going well. Uh 0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:37.480 so um. But but to me, that's unusual. But but 0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.319 in terms of the scale that Chance achieved, But there 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.680 are a lot of acts were being independent might work 0:41:42.719 --> 0:41:45.080 better for them. It depends on how they want to move, 0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:48.080 how they want to be flexible, whether they really want 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:50.359 to be global superstars. Do they want to have hits? 0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:53.040 They want to stare, you know, out and into that 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.799 vast void and say I can conquer this. You know, 0:41:56.000 --> 0:41:58.960 it's it's a big undertaking and and it takes a 0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:02.799 lot of ambition, focus, and talent, and not everybody has 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:05.160 all three of those. Now, let's assume you sign everybody's 0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:07.520 a go. What do you say to the acts about 0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:11.120 participation in social media? Well, it looks that they have 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:13.080 to be natives, they have to feel comfortable with it, 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:15.600 but they've but it's been really benefits them to be 0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:17.840 in it. And I think it'd be very tough to 0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:20.080 sign an act that just said, hey, I'm not doing anything, 0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:23.560 you know, having said that, there's no rules, we'd have 0:42:23.600 --> 0:42:26.120 to see. Maybe that's the next great move. It's not 0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:29.359 to be involved in social media, but it would make 0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:32.440 it harder for everybody most likely. Let's just assume you 0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:35.600 had a campaign on one social media platform. Facebook is 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:38.279 probably the easiest, and you didn't go viral. It wasn't 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.000 a matter of you know, some other website picking it up. 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:46.239 Is that effective? Just pure like a pure advertising play? Um, yeah, 0:42:46.280 --> 0:42:48.640 it depends on the artists. Usually for something like that, 0:42:48.640 --> 0:42:50.960 that's very traditional brand marketing. It's like we have a 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:54.239 known brand we're communicating, or a known artist we're communicating 0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:56.760 the new album that's coming out. We know where they're following. 0:42:56.840 --> 0:42:59.480 Is the research tells us this, The insight tells us 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.440 how to move of the analysis points to Facebook. You know, 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:06.040 let's go where this artists fans are on Facebook and 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:08.520 make sure they know that this album single video is 0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:11.200 coming out. Let's go back to the beginning. So you 0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:14.480 grew up where I grew up in Seattle, Washington. Seattle, Washington. 0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:16.239 What did your parents do for a living? My mother 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:18.440 was a homemaker and my father was a math professor 0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:22.680 at the University of Washington. What professor, math professor, math professor. 0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:25.000 I can't imagine that the University of Washington. How many 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:29.200 kids of the family. Three? I have two older sisters. Well, 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:32.359 one lives in Connecticut and uh and she's she's now 0:43:32.440 --> 0:43:35.120 full time mom. And my other sister, who's living in 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:39.880 la is a lawyer since retired. So did your parents 0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:43.160 and your father is certainly a highly educated person. Did 0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:45.960 they impart to you a certain direction they wanted you 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:47.799 to go in? Now, my my parents would go make 0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:52.040 yourself happy do something you love. And they never really 0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:55.960 understood what I do, but they really liked it. They 0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:58.000 liked that I was happy. Okay, So how big a 0:43:58.080 --> 0:44:00.560 music fan were you growing up? Oh? Pretty big? But 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.680 I honestly never knew it was a business. It never 0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:05.640 occurred to me like I could have a career in 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:08.759 the music business. I thought. I just never thought of 0:44:08.760 --> 0:44:11.200 it as a job. And I kind of still don't, 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.600 which is the great thing. So I lucked into it, 0:44:13.960 --> 0:44:16.000 you know, I looked into Okay, so you were you 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:18.000 went to college where U c l A U CE. 0:44:18.200 --> 0:44:19.480 How did you end up going to u c l A. 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:22.200 I My dad said, you have to go two states 0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:25.440 away minimum and I'll pay for school, but you have 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:27.399 to go to a public school, the best schools two 0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.320 states away. We're in California. And I got into u 0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:32.680 c l A. And because I was a big sports 0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:36.200 fan and I was also a soccer player, and um, 0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:37.799 I thought, I'm gonna try to make the team at 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:39.319 U c l A. And I made the JV team 0:44:39.320 --> 0:44:41.200 for two years and that was a lot of fun 0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:43.560 and uh, but I always thought the U c l 0:44:43.600 --> 0:44:45.279 A was the coolest school out there. And I still 0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:47.440 feel that. Okay, what was your father's logic on the 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:50.000 two states away? He wanted you to go out. He said, Look, 0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:51.719 while you can be supported and we're not gonna give 0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:53.000 you a lot of money, but we're gonna give you 0:44:53.120 --> 0:44:55.520 enough to live on. You can figure out how life 0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:57.920 really works, and you're gonna manage your life. And you'll 0:44:57.960 --> 0:44:59.880 have a little bit of a resource to do that with. 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:02.799 Will be there if the ship hits the fan. But 0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:04.480 you know you need to go at least two states wis. 0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:07.919 You can't just run home every time there's a problem. Okay, 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:10.160 how good a soccer player were you? Pretty good but 0:45:10.239 --> 0:45:13.160 not good enough? When did you realize you weren't good enough? 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:14.640 Kind of the first day I showed up and there 0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:16.640 were players from the U. S Olympic team on the field, 0:45:16.680 --> 0:45:20.040 and I thought, well, maybe I fight try really hard, 0:45:20.120 --> 0:45:22.279 and and I had. I had great fun, but I 0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.839 never was quite good enough to make the varsity. Okay, 0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:27.040 did you get playing time when you were in the 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:29.200 j V? Oh? Yeah, I started every game. And then 0:45:29.320 --> 0:45:34.000 how did you decide I'm done? Uh? You know, I 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:36.440 realized after two seasons the coach was just playing as 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:39.439 scholarship players because I practiced with the varsity all the time, 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:41.719 and I thought, I'm good enough to play on this team, 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:44.120 and I probably was, but you know, it wasn't. Maybe 0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:46.680 one of his guys and all that. And then sadly 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:48.919 the assistant coach kind of liked me. Was this guy 0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:52.200 famous soccer coach. Later on, it turned out the guy 0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:55.160 named Ziggi Schmidt who coached the Galaxy and Seattle Sounders 0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:57.799 and the US Under twenty men's team, and he liked me, 0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:59.799 and I think he kept putting me into the pra 0:46:00.120 --> 0:46:02.400 this is and I'd mark out the forward and I 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:04.439 was a defender, and I'd take care of the ford 0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:06.879 and do a pretty good job. And but but then 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:08.440 I just I just said, you know, I gotta go 0:46:08.480 --> 0:46:09.880 figure out what I'm gonna do with my life. I 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:13.080 can't spend the whole summer and the whole fall playing soccer, 0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:14.719 you know, and then think about it the rest of 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:17.600 the year. And so um, I went off, you know, 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:20.040 looking for other things to do. But it's kind of 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:22.879 heartbreaking to give up the dream. Yeah, you know what, 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:25.239 it was the right time, though, And when you give 0:46:25.320 --> 0:46:28.000 up the dream, sometimes the dream has given up on 0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:31.399 you as well. And but I played. I played until 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:33.839 I was forty seven. You know, really, you know where 0:46:33.840 --> 0:46:36.080 did you play? All over the place? But last time 0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:38.520 at Chelsea Piers, New York five aside. Then I just 0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:41.160 realized as a step behind and about ten years too 0:46:41.200 --> 0:46:43.000 old to do it, and I hung up the spot. 0:46:44.520 --> 0:46:46.719 He played. He went to school at Clarmont McKennon. He 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:51.360 played four years there is he is a good player. Okay, okay, 0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:53.440 So you go to U C l A and you 0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:57.480 drop out of the soccer track. So then you say, 0:46:57.520 --> 0:46:58.960 I want to find your way. How does it end 0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:01.640 up being music? Well between junior and senior year, Well, 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.080 let me actually rewinding. I was in a fraternity. A 0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:06.720 couple of my fraternity brothers intern at A and M Records, 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:08.799 and they would come on the people we would know 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:11.600 they are not They got out of the business many 0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:14.960 years ago. One guy never got beyond an internship. Um 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:18.160 and then they but they would come home with albums 0:47:18.280 --> 0:47:21.120 and concert tickets and they always had a nice looking 0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:24.239 girl in their arm. And I thought, that's something I'm 0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:26.920 interested in. But I just thought I'd do it as 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.080 an intern and I was supposed to go do it 0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:31.640 a paid internship in the Justice Department and it got 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:33.759 canceled and my parents and I said, well, can I 0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:36.040 just go to do an unpaid internship in d C? 0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:38.560 And they said no, we won't pay for it, and 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:40.719 which which is looking back on it turned out to 0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:44.439 be exactly. And then that night I got a knock 0:47:44.480 --> 0:47:47.960 on on my door and about midnight and my frister 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:50.719 living at the fraternity. Living at the frat, my fraternity brother, 0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:53.280 Richard Creo, came in and he said, hey, you remember 0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:55.160 we talked about this thing a couple of months ago. 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:58.040 Nine o'clock tomorrow, you're coming in with me, And I 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:01.040 said okay, and kind of the rest is history. I 0:48:01.480 --> 0:48:03.319 was a wide eyed kid who didn't know anything about 0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:06.280 the music business, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. Okay, 0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:09.920 But traditionally, especially back then, that was a very hard 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:13.759 internship to get, really tough, really tough to irony was. 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:16.200 I thought it was A and M Records, which this 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:18.680 other guy had. It turned out to be I R 0:48:18.840 --> 0:48:22.560 S Records. And I had no idea when there was so, 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:24.279 but I was a pretty big music So what year 0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.680 are we in? Approximately one? Okay, so the police have 0:48:26.680 --> 0:48:30.400 already broken I R S is and know quant that's right, 0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:32.439 I and but I r S was just starting to break. 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.240 Literally like the week I started. The Go Goes released 0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:37.480 their first single, and a year later it was multi platinum. 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:39.600 But they weren't on the map as a label other 0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:42.320 than just being a cool new wave label. Wall of Voodoo, 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:45.520 you know, the Cramps, etcetera. Wasmon arrees, I mean you 0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:48.560 can go on. Okay, so you work that summer, then 0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:50.840 you go back to school and what go back to school? 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:52.960 But in turn the whole year and they gave me 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:55.040 seventy five bucks a week, thank you j Boberg and 0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:57.120 Barba Bowl and give me seventy five bucks a week 0:48:57.400 --> 0:48:59.920 to um to hang around. And so I go to 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:01.719 school less and less, and I'm hanging around more and 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:04.000 more at the record lab, and I'm doing odd jobs 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:06.440 over the week and driving the Go Goes around the concerts, 0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:09.480 doing things like that, things you do, looking after stings 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:12.080 motorcycle because he was Miles was in and out of 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.439 the business, and it was it was so much fun. 0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:17.759 And uh so I finished school and about a month 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:19.520 or so before I finished school, they offered me a 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:22.160 job and I accept on the spot. How much money 0:49:22.160 --> 0:49:24.080 and what kind of job. Well, this is a great story. 0:49:24.080 --> 0:49:26.960 So Bobrick takes me out to dinner at s J 0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:32.600 and those people who watch uh Goliath. That's of course 0:49:32.600 --> 0:49:35.920 where Billy Bob hangs out. That's right. It's a classic 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:38.880 old watering hole. So we're sitting there was their office 0:49:38.920 --> 0:49:41.200 was weird at the A and M lot. Yeah, so 0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:44.359 which is now Henston Studios. So we go down there 0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:46.840 to dinner and and Jay says, well, we'd like you 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:49.560 to come be our director of merchandising. I think was 0:49:49.600 --> 0:49:52.600 the first job, whatever that was. And I said, great, 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:55.920 how much? He goes to fifty a week? And I'm 0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:57.560 think about it for a second, and I said, you know, 0:49:57.640 --> 0:49:59.239 j I didn't go to college to make less than 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:03.680 three hundred. He goes done, Well, what inspired you to negotiate? 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:06.600 I had to stick up for myself. But then I 0:50:06.680 --> 0:50:09.000 realized that it was the first bad deal I made. 0:50:09.040 --> 0:50:10.560 You know, I could have come up with an extra 0:50:10.600 --> 0:50:13.240 fifty bucks. Although, funny enough, Jay and I remained friends, 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:15.640 uh and and he said, you know, Tom, there there 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:18.160 were weeks when I didn't get paid, so everybody else could. 0:50:18.560 --> 0:50:20.960 So it was probably you know, as much as he 0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:22.960 could he could spring for it and your parents were 0:50:22.960 --> 0:50:26.000 fine with you making three a week. They were fine, okay, fine, 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:27.920 So you go to work and what does it look like? 0:50:28.080 --> 0:50:31.080 And you know, I'm doing everything. I'm I'm i'm merchandizing 0:50:31.120 --> 0:50:32.839 record stores back in the day when you would put 0:50:32.880 --> 0:50:35.520 up posts. Jason how Jason Flam started to that's right, 0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:39.040 I'm taking inventory. I'm I'm putting. I'm putting clean records, 0:50:39.080 --> 0:50:42.080 commercial records and bands come through town into places like 0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:44.759 Aaron's Record and Vinyl Fetish and liquors, pizza and all 0:50:44.800 --> 0:50:47.200 that because they didn't always take our stock or they 0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:48.719 might be out of stock. We didn't ship a lot 0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:50.880 of records in those days. I'm I'm sometimes going to 0:50:51.360 --> 0:50:54.839 be Okay, let's say Erin's, which was on Melrose, they're 0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:57.799 not stocking a record. You would go in there with 0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:00.920 cleans meaning there's no cutouts, doesn't show to promo, and 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:02.799 you would just stick them in. Yeah. I talked to 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:05.960 the doors of the store manager or owner and at 0:51:05.960 --> 0:51:08.560 the end these and I'd say, hey, look um, we 0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:11.319 have R. E. M. Coming to town. Who's that? Well, 0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:13.879 they have this the CP called chronic town. I don't 0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:16.279 see that you have this or you have one copy 0:51:16.360 --> 0:51:19.000 and and k Rock maybe he had just started to 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:21.000 play it. Rodney might have played it or something in 0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:24.760 a specialty shower or Casey R. Car w is playing 0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:27.720 it where they're just they're selling out this this gig. 0:51:28.080 --> 0:51:29.880 I need to put five in here? Is that okay? 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:33.480 Sure you took all the revenue. They took all the revenue, 0:51:33.520 --> 0:51:36.280 but we got we got music into people's hands because 0:51:36.280 --> 0:51:38.640 we got no revenue at all. It was it was 0:51:38.760 --> 0:51:41.120 it was seeding the market. And so it was what 0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:43.040 you did. You didn't do it a lot because it's 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:46.440 not it's not every stainable Christinas model. But but if 0:51:46.520 --> 0:51:49.080 let's active comes to town, who was you know baby 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:51.680 R e m you know, with Mitch Easter producing them, 0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:54.040 That's that's what we did. And you know, and then 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:57.440 when sometimes it works, it's like the five thousand you 0:51:57.480 --> 0:52:00.839 know CD singles for Radiohead, Holy Ship It we got 0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:04.120 a hit. It's like, let's go and so and I 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:06.360 did that, and I and I was I used to 0:52:06.400 --> 0:52:08.880 actually order all the merchandizing, get the art from the 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:11.839 art department ordered. I learned about printing presses, I learned 0:52:11.880 --> 0:52:15.560 about color separations, I learned about ordering and pricing things. 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:17.680 I would then get all the stuff in being the 0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:20.720 merchandising warehouse, roll the posters up, box up the flats, 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:23.279 anything out, ship them out to the distribution people to 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:25.520 where I first met a bunch of people. Their names 0:52:25.520 --> 0:52:27.600 were on the on the mailing list, ship them out 0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:30.120 all over the US. They would then order more. I 0:52:30.239 --> 0:52:33.399 keep the inventory. I kept all the promos closet full 0:52:33.440 --> 0:52:38.200 of promos of everything today who knows, who knows? And uh, 0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:40.360 hopefully collectible some of it, you know, I mean I 0:52:40.400 --> 0:52:43.480 probably had some highly collectible stuff in there. Okay, so 0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:46.160 how long do you do that job? And then I became, 0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:49.800 you know, director of sales, director of Go Sideways for 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:52.080 a second. So who else was working there other than 0:52:52.239 --> 0:52:55.279 Jay who sustained Yeah, Jay, and Miles obviously on the 0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:58.520 company and Jayson, Yeah. And Barbara Bowen was a really 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:02.960 prominent figure. She was probably VP of sales. The world 0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:06.560 famous attack hamster Michael Plin, one of the great promotions 0:53:06.600 --> 0:53:10.120 stories of in the world. A woman named Kyle Heatherington 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:12.520 who was also a great promotion person who left the 0:53:12.520 --> 0:53:16.719 business a while ago now, but she's she's lovely. A 0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:19.239 young guy named Steve Tipp and I started around the 0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:21.480 same real estate now but worked at Warner for a 0:53:21.520 --> 0:53:23.799 long time. Yeah, and Steve and I literally started like 0:53:23.840 --> 0:53:26.200 the same week or two and he went off to Warner, 0:53:26.400 --> 0:53:28.040 and I was always jealous. He got the great, he 0:53:28.120 --> 0:53:30.239 got the great. So now you have a job, you're 0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:33.360 making your three week Is there a dream? Yeah? I 0:53:33.680 --> 0:53:36.120 want to Well, the first once I got over the 0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:37.960 idea after two years that I probably wasn't going to 0:53:38.000 --> 0:53:39.879 go back and get an NBA and get a real job, 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:42.880 I then was like, you know what, I like this, 0:53:43.040 --> 0:53:45.160 Maybe I want to run one of these companies one day. 0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:48.360 So my ambition pretty much solidified pretty quickly. I'd like 0:53:48.400 --> 0:53:51.120 to be president of a meaningful record label one day. 0:53:51.360 --> 0:53:52.960 And you know, I had I had shots over the 0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:56.560 years of managing artists and doing different things with digital companies, 0:53:56.560 --> 0:54:00.720 and I just I just stayed through the thick and in. Okay, 0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:02.200 so how long were you at I r S four 0:54:02.280 --> 0:54:04.600 years and then what happens next? Then I got the 0:54:04.640 --> 0:54:07.200 break of a career. So, um, I got a guy 0:54:07.280 --> 0:54:12.600 named Gilfrees and a legendary yeah, my mentor, my true mentor. Yeah, 0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:14.200 it was president of A and M and every so 0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:18.080 often he would hire someone to be his executive assistant. 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:21.080 These days that would mean secretary, all sort of administrative 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:24.120 work that it was actually a management trainee position. And 0:54:24.200 --> 0:54:27.600 so Jeff Gold, Jeff Arof et cetera, Michael Leon, some 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:30.200 guys who, to me, your legendary and we're also mentors 0:54:30.239 --> 0:54:32.960 and friends of mine. Still they were previously in that role. 0:54:33.040 --> 0:54:34.640 So I snatched at it, and I got a nice 0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.279 fifty percent raise. I was almost a forty thousand a year. 0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:40.359 Uh then and uh and but it was I got 0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:43.080 to be trained by one of the great thinkers in 0:54:43.120 --> 0:54:45.600 our business, who was really way ahead of most people 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:47.920 thinking through the business. He would work with people like 0:54:48.200 --> 0:54:51.720 Peter Drucker, the legendary you know, kind of the father 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:55.240 of the new of the modern masters of business administration, 0:54:55.600 --> 0:54:59.680 um idea and a great a great advisor to many 0:54:59.680 --> 0:55:03.360 many titans of industry. Gil would work with him or 0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:06.480 he'd go think about this differently, that differently, And obviously 0:55:06.560 --> 0:55:10.360 Jerry Moss and Herbalpert just legendary entrepreneurs. And and I 0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:13.759 got to like, you know, play sidecar with Gil for 0:55:13.840 --> 0:55:17.200 five years. It was remarkable. Okay, how did he pick 0:55:17.239 --> 0:55:21.399 you out? But he Jeff Gold right, who now says 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:24.880 sols memorabilia. But started in your role, became a marketing 0:55:24.880 --> 0:55:27.719 guy exactly. He recommended me, and I think a couple 0:55:27.800 --> 0:55:29.720 other people, my cole and a couple of those people 0:55:30.000 --> 0:55:32.600 were supportive. Um and but I think Jeff was the 0:55:32.600 --> 0:55:34.640 guy that sayd hey, Gil, you should meet this kid, 0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:37.880 and and we headed off and and actually the beauty 0:55:37.960 --> 0:55:41.080 of it is his his My wife was his assistant, 0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:45.560 so it's all in the family. Oh, keid, Okay, how 0:55:45.600 --> 0:55:49.400 long were you in the position working with Gil before 0:55:49.440 --> 0:55:51.680 it was a romance with your wife? A couple of years. 0:55:51.840 --> 0:55:54.799 A couple of years. She she started after me. I 0:55:54.840 --> 0:55:57.480 advised him not to hire her because she didn't really 0:55:57.480 --> 0:55:59.839 want the job, she told me, And then she ended 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.040 up taking the job and work. She didn't want the 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:05.200 job because she was thinking she was only she's British, 0:56:05.280 --> 0:56:07.520 so she's Susan was thinking she'd only be in town 0:56:07.560 --> 0:56:11.160 for several months with her then boyfriend and uh, gets 0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:14.160 more compliment. Yeah, this is getting too personal. No no, no, no, no, 0:56:15.480 --> 0:56:18.080 it's it's a great story. Okay, Well keep going. Yeah. 0:56:18.160 --> 0:56:20.600 So anyway, she's working there for at least a year 0:56:21.000 --> 0:56:23.919 before we hit it off. And you know, and then 0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:25.960 and then it moved very quickly, and within like a 0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:28.000 year and a half we were married. Okay, when you 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:31.080 start to hit off, is the boyfriend still in the picture? Briefly? 0:56:31.680 --> 0:56:33.399 And how did it end? How did he get out 0:56:33.400 --> 0:56:35.680 of the picture? I think she told him it was okay, 0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:39.280 wasn't your wasn't on your shoulders? Well, only that I'm irresistible, 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:41.160 but you know, other than that, you didn't have to 0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:45.200 stand up. He was a great guy. So I felt, 0:56:45.280 --> 0:56:48.240 I honestly felt bally about them. Okay, so you were there? 0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:52.319 Did Jeff Gold? Was he there? And that assist Jeff 0:56:52.440 --> 0:56:55.279 left shortly there after I got into it. But did 0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:57.040 he do it for five years? I don't know how 0:56:57.040 --> 0:56:59.120 long he did the assistant position, but he was. He 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:02.440 was a proper VP of creative and other things by 0:57:02.480 --> 0:57:04.600 the time I got there. Yeah, so you worked for 0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:08.400 your five years, which brings us to what year? Okay, 0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:11.040 and A and M was sold to PolyGram that's right, 0:57:11.400 --> 0:57:13.840 and Gil left and went on his merry way to 0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:15.799 do his great the great things that he did then 0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:18.400 and and they made me head of marketing VP of 0:57:18.400 --> 0:57:24.480 Marketing and Jake so, uh, this was before Alcafaro took over. Yeah, 0:57:24.520 --> 0:57:26.360 I was right at the same time. So Al got 0:57:26.360 --> 0:57:29.040 the he at that time, I think either got the 0:57:29.040 --> 0:57:31.919 presidency or GM. I can't remember. He became the leader 0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:34.320 of the company day to day. I got the VP 0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:39.240 of marketing. Gar garen Od came in a few years 0:57:39.240 --> 0:57:41.720 before that to be head of artist development. And Jim 0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:43.200 Jim was a really good friend of mine. Used to 0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:46.080 play basketball every Saturday, you know, at his house one 0:57:46.120 --> 0:57:50.480 on one and and he and Michael Leon and I Michael, 0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:54.160 myself and Michael Leon and there was somebody else involved, 0:57:54.160 --> 0:57:57.919 maybe Wayne Isaac, I can't remember. We recruited Jim into 0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:00.600 the company and uh he did very well. Okay, so 0:58:00.680 --> 0:58:03.240 he was artist development and you were marketing. Yeah, that's right. 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:05.320 And how long were you there in that position? Only 0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:07.480 for about a year and then when he got poached 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:09.600 by I got poached by Capital. And how did you 0:58:09.640 --> 0:58:13.120 decide to leave the family? Uh? It was it wasn't Uh, 0:58:14.080 --> 0:58:17.720 it was it was time, you know. I didn't think 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:21.680 that the new leadership was really the kind of direction 0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:23.920 that I wanted to go, and I could feel the 0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:27.480 company changing. And then I met hell Milgram at a 0:58:27.480 --> 0:58:30.240 dinner party who would come from elector to run Capital, 0:58:30.320 --> 0:58:33.920 that's right. And he was wonderful and you know, and 0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:36.000 then he offered me this great opportunity to run the 0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:40.000 international department at Capital, and I snatched it. It was great. 0:58:40.120 --> 0:58:41.920 I didn't know you ran an international first. I mean, 0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:44.800 that's back then, especially you flew all over the world. 0:58:44.960 --> 0:58:48.640 I flew two air miles a year for three years. 0:58:49.520 --> 0:58:53.280 Would your wife say? She said, come home. I got 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.520 two little kids and I need you home. But are 0:58:55.560 --> 0:58:57.680 you kidding? She was the most supportive person in the world. 0:58:57.800 --> 0:59:00.760 And obviously she had to be, you know, I mean 0:59:00.800 --> 0:59:02.840 because because it was just tough, because there were no 0:59:02.920 --> 0:59:06.960 emails then, no cell phones. It was all landlines and 0:59:07.000 --> 0:59:10.480 texts and landlines and faxes, you know, And and it 0:59:10.520 --> 0:59:12.440 was tough. And after three years, Hail threw me a 0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:21.960 lifeline and pulled me back into run marketing at Capital. Okay, Now, 0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:27.240 ultimately Charles Coppleman and his team took over. Where did 0:59:27.240 --> 0:59:30.840 that leave you? Yeah, well, so Charles came in, um 0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:35.800 changed changed leadership, brought in Gary gersh And, and that 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:40.280 was a very different perspective. And Gary's super talented guy. 0:59:40.320 --> 0:59:42.160 He was riding the Nirvan Awave at that point in 0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:44.439 County Crows and whatever. So he came in and Gary 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:46.960 had a very different approach to Hale. But I got 0:59:46.960 --> 0:59:49.479 along fine with Gary. Well what was just for those 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:52.520 who may not know, what was the difference in approach? Um, 0:59:52.840 --> 0:59:58.320 you know Gary, Gary was more aggressive. He was more 0:59:58.920 --> 1:00:02.120 opinionated about day to day. Um. Not to say that 1:00:02.200 --> 1:00:03.840 Hall didn't have an opinion or a point of view. 1:00:04.760 --> 1:00:06.840 He was an A and R guy and not a 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:11.360 marketing guy. Um. He was more He was more about 1:00:11.440 --> 1:00:15.760 the band's culture, if you will, and all that, and 1:00:15.760 --> 1:00:17.919 and so I think I got the benefit of both 1:00:17.960 --> 1:00:21.000 of their best you know things. And after a couple 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:24.960 of years uh with Gary, I got approached by by 1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:28.160 by Sony and and uh about about a little about 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:29.800 a year and a half with Gary, I got approached 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:33.800 by by Columbia Records, by Don einer Um. And it 1:00:33.880 --> 1:00:36.720 was a strange time because the north Ridge earthquake had 1:00:36.760 --> 1:00:40.720 just happened. Yeah, I still haven't recovered him now and 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:43.040 so and and and it scared the hell out of us. 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:47.560 And in studios in Sherman in Sherman Oaks, which was 1:00:47.600 --> 1:00:49.960 the second most damage that code and so and we 1:00:50.040 --> 1:00:52.800 got a hundred thousand dollars with a damage in at 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:55.480 our house. That was terrifying. We had two little kids, 1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:58.160 and uh, and then and so we were thinking about 1:00:58.160 --> 1:01:00.840 do we want to live here anymore? And and Donnie 1:01:00.880 --> 1:01:03.760 came in like maybe seven or eight months later and 1:01:03.880 --> 1:01:06.680 offered me. I remember this is Columbia Records at the time, 1:01:06.680 --> 1:01:10.400 which was mighty, you know, and Big Red and its 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:15.320 glory and Donnie is as the fearless Commander probably almost 1:01:16.240 --> 1:01:22.680 like and um, so you know, I I I thought 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:24.760 long and hard about it, but it seemed like it 1:01:24.840 --> 1:01:26.680 was the time to go. You know. Our kids were 1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:29.600 five and seven and actually at that point six and four. 1:01:30.040 --> 1:01:31.840 And then so I had to work another year at 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:34.560 at Capitol and kind of work off my contract and 1:01:34.560 --> 1:01:37.200 then and then Gary was generous enough to let me 1:01:37.200 --> 1:01:41.240 out a bit early and I stepped into the war 1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:44.280 zone with Columbia records. What was that like? It was 1:01:44.360 --> 1:01:48.560 it was a major cultural uh like wake up call. 1:01:49.160 --> 1:01:53.960 Um was in l A. It wasn't uh, it wasn't Capital. 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:57.440 It was Big Red and Donnie Einner was you know this, 1:01:57.880 --> 1:02:01.600 you know, the Sergeant Rock or the Demand or General 1:02:01.600 --> 1:02:05.000 Patton exactly whatever. I want to say, and a bunch 1:02:05.000 --> 1:02:09.000 of guys in suits and who were number one or one. 1:02:09.040 --> 1:02:11.280 They weren't quite number one when I arrived. They'd fallen 1:02:11.280 --> 1:02:12.720 off for a year or two. And I think Donnie 1:02:12.760 --> 1:02:15.320 was under a lot of pressure. And and so is 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:18.200 culture shock for me. Initially, it took me a good 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:21.160 year to figure it out and to figure out how 1:02:21.200 --> 1:02:23.320 I fit in. And I didn't fit in. I was 1:02:23.360 --> 1:02:26.520 a little bit of of of you know, of an 1:02:26.560 --> 1:02:29.120 awkward duck there within that company, of an ugly swan 1:02:29.200 --> 1:02:33.320 or whatever, ugly duckling. And and but I really saw though, 1:02:33.360 --> 1:02:36.080 an incredible machine and it's and it was exactly what 1:02:36.120 --> 1:02:37.840 I needed at the right time. And Donnie was a 1:02:37.840 --> 1:02:40.120 great leader. Now to what degree where you say you 1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:42.560 didn't fit in? How much did you feel the pressure? 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:46.479 Tremendously tremendous pressure. Remember I was thirty six years old, 1:02:46.600 --> 1:02:48.880 you know, with a wife and two kids, and I 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:51.280 waited a year to get there, and it was like, 1:02:51.320 --> 1:02:55.120 holy shit, this is hardcore. And Donnie tested me, you know, 1:02:55.400 --> 1:02:58.120 and what would that look like. He's just a he's 1:02:58.200 --> 1:03:03.640 just a fear leader, a hard driver, an emotional guy, 1:03:03.760 --> 1:03:09.080 you know, UM intimidating, um inspiring, you know, uh, one 1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:12.080 of the great recordmen. Uh, you know of all time, 1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:15.040 and and and and you know, look at the track 1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:17.840 record you know, as a label guy, you know, he 1:03:17.880 --> 1:03:20.400 was incredible, you know, and he was he was polarizing. 1:03:20.560 --> 1:03:23.280 You know, it could be very difficult, but uh, you know, 1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:25.640 I have great respect for for him as a as 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:29.560 a strategist and an executing person who could execute. You're 1:03:29.600 --> 1:03:31.960 you're there when he gets blown out? No, I am 1:03:32.080 --> 1:03:36.640 later on. Yeah, So did you see that coming? You know, yes, 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:38.960 and no, I mean, I mean I saw it coming 1:03:39.120 --> 1:03:42.440 because I had I was in a much more privileged 1:03:42.440 --> 1:03:45.880 position than many years later in two thousand five maybe. 1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:48.360 So what was your obviously you weren't insider, but what 1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:51.720 was your actual title? Believe I was GM of of 1:03:52.640 --> 1:03:54.560 j R st R, j R R C. I can't 1:03:54.560 --> 1:03:57.240 remember exactly. And and it was recently, you know, the 1:03:57.240 --> 1:03:59.360 companies were recently merged. There were a lot of politics 1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:01.040 going on. You kind of didn't know which side it 1:04:01.080 --> 1:04:03.960 was to come down on, and it came down on 1:04:04.080 --> 1:04:07.280 the BMG side of it. And Donnie was a casualty 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:09.200 and but I still kind of couldn't believe it. I 1:04:09.240 --> 1:04:13.280 was like God, that guy was like, you know, okay, 1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:15.480 so you worked with Clive? What was that like? Cli? 1:04:15.760 --> 1:04:19.080 Clive was amazing and is amazing. Um, and I have 1:04:19.120 --> 1:04:23.120 a lot of love, yeah, um, and a taskmaster and 1:04:23.120 --> 1:04:27.480 an absolute perfectionist. And nobody works harder, nobody's more strategic, 1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:31.480 and he was. He would manage the minutia down to 1:04:31.520 --> 1:04:35.280 the font on the sticker on the album cover, you know. 1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:37.280 And and at the same time, I have the big 1:04:37.320 --> 1:04:43.720 picture in the vision to both create stars and resurrect superstars, 1:04:43.760 --> 1:04:47.440 you know. And and his his his and he's insatiable. 1:04:47.600 --> 1:04:49.800 You know, he's just incredible. So how did you jump 1:04:50.040 --> 1:04:53.600 to Clive Terrista? I was recruited, you know, this is 1:04:53.640 --> 1:04:57.400 when it was Jake, this is when it was now 1:04:57.440 --> 1:05:00.400 before it turned into correct So I I was it 1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:02.560 aris to about six months, but as a Columbia Records 1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:05.280 company into my deal. Um, I was approached by by 1:05:05.360 --> 1:05:07.800 Arista at breakfast with Clive. And there's a guy named 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:10.520 Charles Goldstock who's Clive's right hand guy. We need to 1:05:10.640 --> 1:05:12.920 knew each other. We work together. Charles gold Stuck today 1:05:13.040 --> 1:05:16.360 he's doing Hitco with l A. Read so and and 1:05:16.360 --> 1:05:18.800 and so. Charles and I knew each other from Capital. 1:05:18.920 --> 1:05:22.440 He was a CFO there and so um, and it 1:05:22.520 --> 1:05:24.120 was time for me to move. I you know, I 1:05:24.160 --> 1:05:26.080 felt like but they offered me a much better job, 1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:28.479 you know, a bigger job, global head of marketing e VP, 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:31.400 all this stuff, lots more dough, thank you very much. 1:05:31.560 --> 1:05:34.120 And it was a no brainer. Um, And it was 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:35.560 time for me to go. And I think culturally it 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:37.360 was a much better fit for me. What did Donny 1:05:37.440 --> 1:05:40.880 say when you wanted to go, You're making a mistake, said, 1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:42.920 you know, this may be and and this may be 1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:45.160 the last job you tall, having the record business and 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:47.280 all that. But but at the same time he said, like, 1:05:47.400 --> 1:05:49.200 what can I say? You're gonna go work for Clive? 1:05:49.520 --> 1:05:52.240 I love because that's right. So you know he was 1:05:52.600 --> 1:05:55.280 he was doing his best to to who convince me 1:05:55.280 --> 1:05:56.960 not to go? And then when it's it's apart, you 1:05:57.040 --> 1:06:00.360 go with Claive. I do. And but one thing about Live, 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:05.160 it's basically his way. What was it like working that way? 1:06:05.200 --> 1:06:06.800 I mean, when you came up with an idea and 1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:09.560 he wasn't so warm about it. I put a lot 1:06:09.600 --> 1:06:12.040 of winds on the board with Clive, you know, but 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:15.080 because I understood how he how he thinks, and I 1:06:15.400 --> 1:06:17.600 and and and at that point I wasn't I wasn't 1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:20.320 as much of a kid anymore. I had my own confidence. 1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:23.120 And that's what Columbia Records gave me, the belief in 1:06:23.680 --> 1:06:25.560 what I could do. And that's what Donnie wanted. That's 1:06:25.560 --> 1:06:27.680 why he would test you. He would test you to 1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:30.240 make sure you really believed that what you were doing 1:06:30.280 --> 1:06:31.760 was going to work, and then you had to go 1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:34.320 out and do it. That was and that was proof 1:06:34.360 --> 1:06:36.400 of concept, making me feel like, you know, I am 1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:39.000 I am maybe as smart as I think I am sometimes, 1:06:39.080 --> 1:06:41.320 you know. And and he didn't torture you if you fail. 1:06:41.520 --> 1:06:44.320 You know, he would tease you or goof on you 1:06:44.440 --> 1:06:46.880 or whatever, but he would always encourage people that to 1:06:46.880 --> 1:06:48.720 to go for it. And and but he you know, 1:06:48.800 --> 1:06:51.160 he he'd guide you along. He was great. Clive was 1:06:51.200 --> 1:06:53.720 a different version of that, you know. And Clive, You're right, 1:06:53.800 --> 1:06:56.920 Clive had the vision and and got a lot of 1:06:56.920 --> 1:07:00.400 the credit and and and deserves you know it as well. 1:07:00.640 --> 1:07:04.480 But you know, I like to think I helped Clive win. 1:07:07.000 --> 1:07:09.080 Clive takes a lot of credit. We'll leave it at that. 1:07:09.440 --> 1:07:11.920 Certainly can't do without the team. So then how do 1:07:11.960 --> 1:07:14.160 you end up being a you know, the merger happens, 1:07:14.160 --> 1:07:17.680 how do you end up on top? Uh? Which merger 1:07:17.800 --> 1:07:21.400 the Sony b MG merger? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, so there's 1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:23.400 a there's a lot of different Okay, we you're talking 1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:25.800 about just I can't eve remember did j we merge 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:28.720 with the Arista before? What happened Arista? Arista, l A 1:07:28.760 --> 1:07:31.280 read came in, lives out, We start j Records, and 1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:32.600 you have a lot of success. We have a lot 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:35.240 of Thank god, we have a lot of success. Um 1:07:35.400 --> 1:07:37.720 we get Arista back A couple of years later, l 1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:39.560 A is losing a lot of money or aristas losing 1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:42.040 a lot of money, but he's got hits, you know, 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:45.320 so that that comes back into the fold, you know. 1:07:45.640 --> 1:07:50.960 Then Jive is bought by BMG. Then Clive and Charles 1:07:51.000 --> 1:07:54.960 have oversight of BMG North America, which includes Jive, which 1:07:55.000 --> 1:07:58.720 Barry runs autonomously, but he reports into these guys. Um 1:07:58.840 --> 1:08:01.960 So in the meantime, I'm Arista, R C A and 1:08:02.080 --> 1:08:06.400 J become one become our CIA Records. Essentially R C A, 1:08:06.520 --> 1:08:09.440 J R. Cier aris to J and Richard Sanders for 1:08:09.440 --> 1:08:11.360 a while is running R c A. I'm running I'm 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:14.440 running Aris to j and then Richard. Then the merger happens. 1:08:14.520 --> 1:08:17.559 Richard goes off and runs international for Sony b MG. 1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:21.280 I then become GM of of of r C A 1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:24.360 J Arista. So you're the GM. How do you fly 1:08:24.520 --> 1:08:28.240 up to the next level? So long? So spin it 1:08:28.320 --> 1:08:31.879 up again. In two thousand and eight, Charles leaves the company, 1:08:32.000 --> 1:08:35.639 Clive becomes Chief Creative Officer of Sony. Barry Wise takes over. 1:08:35.840 --> 1:08:40.600 He takes over m r C A Jive. I'm GM 1:08:40.760 --> 1:08:42.639 kind of. He and I hit it off great. I'm 1:08:42.680 --> 1:08:45.559 a big fan of Barry. He's quirky and smart, but 1:08:45.600 --> 1:08:49.760 he's a consummate record guy, very bright, very driven. Three 1:08:49.840 --> 1:08:52.840 years later, Barry ops to go to university. Um Doug 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:55.480 comes in. At the same time, there's a change in management. 1:08:55.840 --> 1:08:59.880 Doug Morris comes in. He uh looks at Peter and 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:02.600 me and he says, Okay, you guys run it, but 1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:06.080 I'm taking r C A and I'm retiring JIVE and 1:09:06.120 --> 1:09:08.400 I'm making it just our c A. And so he 1:09:08.439 --> 1:09:11.519 gives us our shot. And I'm very grateful for Doug 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:13.439 to give us our shot, because as he would he 1:09:13.520 --> 1:09:15.080 said with a little glint in his eye. About two 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:16.320 years later, he goes like, you know, I didn't know 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:19.519 you guys are gonna make so And by the way, 1:09:19.600 --> 1:09:22.719 maybe we didn't either, but but through through his support 1:09:22.920 --> 1:09:25.679 and and and and believe we we believe in ourselves. 1:09:25.720 --> 1:09:27.800 But going back to Donnie's comment, when you go to 1:09:27.920 --> 1:09:29.479 Arrow sat, so this is gonna be your last job 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:32.080 in the record business. For a lot of people, they 1:09:32.120 --> 1:09:34.599 make moves and it is their last job. We ever 1:09:34.680 --> 1:09:36.240 worried that, Hey, you know, there's gonna be a game 1:09:36.240 --> 1:09:39.160 of musical chairs and I'm gonna be left out if 1:09:39.200 --> 1:09:41.920 I if I'm honest, I would say I always believe 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:43.719 in myself and I didn't think that was gonna happen. 1:09:44.160 --> 1:09:46.400 But but if I'm digging down a little deeply, you 1:09:46.400 --> 1:09:48.720 are there. I'm you know, insecurity drives all of us. 1:09:48.760 --> 1:09:52.599 So I wasn't going to be that guy. Okay, So 1:09:52.840 --> 1:09:56.400 now we're in the present. Obviously you live through the 1:09:56.479 --> 1:09:59.760 knaps Ger era. Uh sales went down and then of 1:09:59.760 --> 1:10:01.799 course in the last couple of years results of streaming, 1:10:01.800 --> 1:10:05.040 they've gone back up. So it used to be the 1:10:05.080 --> 1:10:08.040 record company was king, but now a lot of record 1:10:08.040 --> 1:10:11.280 companies if they buy any tickets for the show, very few. 1:10:11.600 --> 1:10:14.240 They're certainly not buying out clubs like there used to be. 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:18.840 So where does the record company fit in the ecosystem today? Yeah, um, 1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:22.240 that's that's that's the billion dollar question. But but obviously 1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:24.720 the record company is there for a lot of things 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.439 that's always been there for, which is to to to 1:10:27.720 --> 1:10:31.280 for scale global scale, To work radio, which is very 1:10:31.280 --> 1:10:34.160 difficult to work if you're not in there. To fund 1:10:34.720 --> 1:10:38.280 on a on a big scale, big ideas and small ideas. 1:10:38.600 --> 1:10:42.720 To have expertise, to source to source talent both on 1:10:42.720 --> 1:10:46.760 the A and R side, i e. Producers, engineers, mixers, masters, etcetera. 1:10:47.960 --> 1:10:54.240 Video directors, art directors, photographers, To be able to uh 1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:57.880 sit there and and and sync music on on on 1:10:57.960 --> 1:11:01.200 scale at scale, To be there every day with brands 1:11:01.200 --> 1:11:04.200 where when we come in with hundreds of acts in 1:11:04.240 --> 1:11:07.600 some cases at major labels, but to know who to 1:11:07.680 --> 1:11:10.400 pitch and how to pitch it. When one pitch comes 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:13.599 in for one act, you know doesn't work for that act, 1:11:13.640 --> 1:11:16.120 but we spend it into another act. You know, so, 1:11:16.640 --> 1:11:19.800 and and and and you know and and just as 1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:22.400 a sounding board, you know, as a sounding board is 1:11:22.479 --> 1:11:25.760 part of the team of experts, because the one thing 1:11:25.760 --> 1:11:30.440 I'll say about major labels is we're there with everybody 1:11:30.479 --> 1:11:33.679 every day through the entire food chain, for better, for worse, 1:11:33.840 --> 1:11:37.280 you know, and hopefully for the better. And so you 1:11:37.280 --> 1:11:40.120 you you gain access, you gain global access. You have 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:43.280 an affiliation, you have people that are accountable to you. 1:11:43.640 --> 1:11:46.439 As an artist, we're accountable to the artist. Um, you 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:49.840 have a royalty department, you have business affairs, helps sort 1:11:49.880 --> 1:11:53.320 you through. Then with an independent label, you want to 1:11:53.360 --> 1:11:56.479 talk about not getting paid forgetting I mean not getting 1:11:56.479 --> 1:11:58.880 paid and some of the Look, I'm a big believer 1:11:58.880 --> 1:12:01.400 in independent labels, but you know, they're running a shoestring, 1:12:01.439 --> 1:12:04.040 most of them. It's really tough. And so just so 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:06.479 in order to stay alive, they've got to have cash flow, 1:12:06.720 --> 1:12:09.000 and we have constant cash flow. They don't always have 1:12:09.080 --> 1:12:12.120 constant cash flow, right never well the old days distribution 1:12:12.160 --> 1:12:14.240 there you couldn't get paid if you were an indie, 1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:17.160 that's right. But okay, so I'm an act. Tell me 1:12:17.200 --> 1:12:20.160 about the relationships with the streaming services. Let's start with 1:12:20.200 --> 1:12:25.320 the paige services, Amazon, Spotify, Apple primarily. How does a 1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:29.439 major label interface with those that's a that's a big question. 1:12:29.760 --> 1:12:34.800 But um, your primary role is to work with the 1:12:34.800 --> 1:12:39.479 the the DSPs, the digital service providers to work on 1:12:39.520 --> 1:12:42.280 playlisting and making sure you're talking to the right editor 1:12:42.360 --> 1:12:44.680 with the right playlist at the right time for the 1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:47.080 right song for the right artists, you know. But it's 1:12:47.160 --> 1:12:48.840 much bigger than that. They have a big platform, they 1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:52.519 have marketing money, they do out of home advertising, they 1:12:52.560 --> 1:12:57.320 have in some cases radio shows, uh, podcasts and things 1:12:57.360 --> 1:12:59.760 and so forth. Uh, they if and and they're not 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:03.720 created equal. Some are affiliated with hardware Apple. Some are 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:08.120 affiliated with with digital retail Amazon and have a tremendous 1:13:08.320 --> 1:13:11.040 program called Prime. And I think fourteen markets around the 1:13:11.040 --> 1:13:14.200 world might be more. You have You've got Spotify, which 1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:19.559 is a wonderful you know service both at supported and 1:13:19.680 --> 1:13:22.800 premium that is in a hundred and seventy countries around 1:13:22.800 --> 1:13:25.320 the world, you know, something like that. It provides a 1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:27.799 lot of access around the world. So they're all different. 1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:31.080 And and that's again if you're one person or one 1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:33.320 artist to one manager trying to wrap your head around 1:13:33.400 --> 1:13:36.479 that and trying to get access. And they have boots 1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:38.680 on the ground everywhere, but so do we, you know, 1:13:39.160 --> 1:13:41.760 And and so you're you're you're just dealing with it 1:13:41.880 --> 1:13:45.320 all the time, and you're constantly in a constant, always 1:13:45.400 --> 1:13:48.599 on conversation about what to do. Okay, let's just narrowly 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:52.000 done to one Spotify hypothetical. Yeah, do you pick and 1:13:52.120 --> 1:13:55.320 choose what you're promoting or do you believe there's a 1:13:55.320 --> 1:13:59.759 playlist for everything? I believe there's a playlist for everything. Actually, 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:03.760 So you have your priorities and your goal there used 1:14:03.800 --> 1:14:07.160 to get it on the genre playlist. Let's you know 1:14:07.720 --> 1:14:11.680 you have what would you ask for? Well, genre is 1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:15.400 the easiest way to describe it, but someone's lifestyle, some vibe. 1:14:15.800 --> 1:14:20.000 Because that's the sort of trick with what I called 1:14:20.040 --> 1:14:23.479 the playlist generation. You know, many of us do. It's 1:14:23.479 --> 1:14:26.320 not they're not they're not beholding two genre. They may 1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:29.040 they may go for R and B, or go for 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:31.160 hip hop, or go for pop or rock or whatever. 1:14:31.400 --> 1:14:33.080 But they listen to kind of everything because there's a 1:14:33.120 --> 1:14:36.200 lot of sharing going on out there, especially the younger generation, 1:14:36.280 --> 1:14:39.360 Millennials and younger they're used to their own mix tapes, 1:14:39.400 --> 1:14:42.080 their own they send things, you know, they do their 1:14:42.080 --> 1:14:44.840 own U. G. C. Stuff. They have playlists that you know, 1:14:46.240 --> 1:14:49.520 that's right in different platforms that they and their SoundCloud, 1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:51.679 and there's this, and there's mixed you know, my mix 1:14:51.720 --> 1:14:53.479 tapes and all this stuff. So there's a lot of 1:14:53.520 --> 1:14:56.840 different ways that they could access music. And when you 1:14:56.880 --> 1:15:01.200 come back to Spotify, you know, Spotify has you playlisting 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:03.880 ability for people to share and its social and it 1:15:03.920 --> 1:15:06.720 does a good job of that. And and so you know, 1:15:06.800 --> 1:15:09.080 there's the idea that you know, we look at collection 1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:12.960 i e. People collecting songs off of a playlisted uh 1:15:12.960 --> 1:15:15.800 Spotify list and and and the truth is is that 1:15:16.040 --> 1:15:20.759 something like eight of plays are off playlists and sorry, 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:26.679 are off off bespoke playlist saves playlists not off playlists 1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:31.000 generated boyl the DSP And do you have any uh 1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:34.240 knowledge how many of those are saved because the person 1:15:34.600 --> 1:15:37.080 listened on a playlist or they just cherry picked and 1:15:37.080 --> 1:15:40.120 created their own playlists. I know there's data there. I 1:15:40.160 --> 1:15:42.719 don't I can't spit it out at the moment, but 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:44.840 but I'm sure it's a combination of both. But I 1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:46.960 think a lot of it is you sharing your playlist 1:15:47.040 --> 1:15:49.600 with me and me going, oh, I like those. I 1:15:49.640 --> 1:15:51.599 didn't know those three records that Bob put on here, 1:15:51.600 --> 1:15:53.200 I like those or I hadn't thought of that from 1:15:53.200 --> 1:15:55.920 my list, and it fits into this playlist for my 1:15:55.960 --> 1:15:58.000 dinner party, or this play is from my drive, or 1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:03.240 this playlist for my workout. Okay, so that's almost impossible 1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:07.320 to penetrate, right, Well, yes and no. It goes back 1:16:07.360 --> 1:16:10.559 to knowing your consumer and knowing where to find them, 1:16:10.600 --> 1:16:14.479 and and having the experience and the ability to reach 1:16:14.520 --> 1:16:18.520 them and communicate them. To get them to listen English 1:16:18.840 --> 1:16:21.560 in English, you have to be a good marketer. So 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:24.240 let's just be very narrow. If you want to reach 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:29.479 them on Spotify and they're basically trading playlists as opposed 1:16:29.520 --> 1:16:33.320 to going through the genre playlists, you won't just reach 1:16:33.360 --> 1:16:35.960 them on Spotify. That's my point. You read them, You 1:16:36.040 --> 1:16:38.240 reach them through lifestyle, you reach them through social, you 1:16:38.320 --> 1:16:41.760 reach them through touring, You'll reach them through other you know, 1:16:42.320 --> 1:16:45.559 levers and odd platforms. So so nobody exists in a 1:16:45.640 --> 1:16:47.760 silo or not. And okay, but let's just go back 1:16:47.800 --> 1:16:51.600 to your Now you're you're pitching Spotify. Let's just say 1:16:51.720 --> 1:16:54.799 they put something on a playlist. You're obvious, they're obviously 1:16:54.840 --> 1:16:58.200 generating data which is useful to you, But how long 1:16:58.200 --> 1:17:01.479 will they stay committed? Before they not working for us. 1:17:01.560 --> 1:17:04.519 It varies from playlists to playlists. If we're just talking that, 1:17:04.600 --> 1:17:07.120 you know, you can have today's top hits. I believe 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:10.439 the average time is eight to ten weeks. You know, 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:13.320 you have other playlists like Pop Rising, which cycle through 1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:17.040 more quickly. You have Wrapped Caviare, You've got It's you know, 1:17:17.080 --> 1:17:19.320 It's lit. You know, they all have a different sort 1:17:19.320 --> 1:17:22.120 of um sort of mission in terms of what they're 1:17:22.160 --> 1:17:24.800 trying to accomplish. But they they're data driven. They'll look 1:17:24.840 --> 1:17:27.559 at some yes there's some curation evolved and the human 1:17:27.600 --> 1:17:29.840 beings involved, but they're also very data driven. So let's 1:17:29.840 --> 1:17:32.320 see there's burn. You know, they'll see there's the playlist, 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:34.439 things dropping and as you'll see it drop down there. 1:17:34.520 --> 1:17:36.599 But I say, let's say you you're something you're excited 1:17:36.640 --> 1:17:39.080 about they put it on these playlists, and they come 1:17:39.080 --> 1:17:40.880 to you one day said, you know, we're not going 1:17:40.920 --> 1:17:43.240 to leave it on the playlist anymore, and you're still 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:45.760 excited about it. How do you deal with that? Well, 1:17:45.760 --> 1:17:47.439 then you could go to a different playlists. Maybe you 1:17:47.439 --> 1:17:50.759 were wrong, maybe it isn't that audience. Maybe you thought 1:17:50.800 --> 1:17:54.439 it was Wrapped Caviare. But it's really something else or 1:17:55.200 --> 1:17:58.000 you know that sort of thing. And and so you 1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:01.360 might just pivot and go somewhere else, or uh, it's 1:18:01.360 --> 1:18:05.120 just not a very good record. So, uh, since you're 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:07.280 in the belly of the beast, what is the most 1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:10.120 useful data that you've ever I'm done about specific kind 1:18:10.120 --> 1:18:13.600 of data that you've gotten from streaming services that is 1:18:13.640 --> 1:18:17.800 either very useful or surprising. Other than people listening primarily 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:19.840 to their safe playlists. Yeah, there's a there's not I mean, 1:18:19.880 --> 1:18:21.920 there's a number where do I start? But but you know, 1:18:22.520 --> 1:18:26.519 collection people putting stuff on their plus skip rates are 1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.679 that what are they skipping? When they're skipping? Is skipping 1:18:29.680 --> 1:18:32.320 at the beginning of the song or right at the 1:18:32.360 --> 1:18:35.840 hook or a little bit later in the song? Um? 1:18:35.960 --> 1:18:42.000 What sort of click rates? You know? UM? What kind 1:18:42.040 --> 1:18:47.400 of likes people have? You have a sentiment you know, um, 1:18:47.680 --> 1:18:50.200 data about how people feel, you know, And so you 1:18:50.240 --> 1:18:53.160 try to sift through those words and and create because 1:18:53.160 --> 1:18:56.280 it's an emotional products, so you and and and that's 1:18:56.320 --> 1:18:59.439 particularly helpful on the first blush of something, whether you're 1:18:59.439 --> 1:19:02.160 just putting out something new from Dualipa or whether you're 1:19:02.200 --> 1:19:04.960 putting out something new from a fairly unknown act, but 1:19:05.000 --> 1:19:06.880 you find you have a very we have a sat 1:19:06.920 --> 1:19:10.479 cave Town. It's a sort of a of a pop 1:19:10.520 --> 1:19:15.240 alt kid from the UK and very very emo and 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:18.400 very bedroom pop, but very connected. And he's just sold 1:19:18.400 --> 1:19:21.240 out venue here, the Fonda, you know, I mean, he's 1:19:21.240 --> 1:19:23.040 going doing very very well. And we don't we haven't 1:19:23.040 --> 1:19:24.479 had a new album out in a while. In fact, 1:19:24.479 --> 1:19:26.760 his previous one was Indie. So we have an album 1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:29.400 coming out and I think believe it's February. So he 1:19:30.360 --> 1:19:33.639 played there and and you know, you watch what's going 1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:36.599 on there and and and and so you know you're 1:19:36.640 --> 1:19:39.960 looking at the connectivity that that that that happens off 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:42.400 of that emotion. You know, it's so emotional, that product. 1:19:42.640 --> 1:19:45.599 But you'll look at the sentiment meter around that and 1:19:45.640 --> 1:19:49.400 you'll say, okay, that's super passionate. That's like a lot 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:52.920 of love there, you know, and significant streams in the 1:19:52.920 --> 1:19:56.160 twenty five million range, but not the million range. But 1:19:56.439 --> 1:19:59.120 we're betting long on Cave Town. We're betting long on 1:19:59.200 --> 1:20:01.600 Robin has the R. So we'll look at that or 1:20:01.680 --> 1:20:05.599 Hobo Johnson, you know, another act out of Sacramento. Frank 1:20:05.760 --> 1:20:08.240 his name is and he's he's got the same thing. 1:20:08.439 --> 1:20:11.400 You know, you'll you'll see the passion behind what's going 1:20:11.439 --> 1:20:13.479 on there and then and then you morphounted off the 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:16.559 service and see that he's selling out theaters and doing 1:20:16.600 --> 1:20:18.720 eleven bucks ahead and merged. Okay, there's a lot of 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:21.280 passion behind them. Have we hit radio yet with a 1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:23.599 song that's gone all the way? Not yet, but they're 1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:27.280 they're they're aware, they're paying attention. Okay, I saw you 1:20:27.280 --> 1:20:30.280 at the Rufous Do Soul uh show where they sold 1:20:30.280 --> 1:20:35.080 out the l A State Historical Park neighborhood of fifteen thousand. Uh. 1:20:35.240 --> 1:20:38.120 They have not have put out a record under your management? 1:20:38.880 --> 1:20:41.160 What's the plan for something like that? They have put 1:20:41.160 --> 1:20:43.360 out a record, they had what they had now they 1:20:43.360 --> 1:20:47.040 had last year and um and Solace is their first 1:20:47.080 --> 1:20:49.960 album with with the label. Came out more or less 1:20:50.000 --> 1:20:52.160 right when I arrived, like four or five months later. Um. 1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:54.680 But they're one of my favorite acts around period. I 1:20:54.720 --> 1:20:57.400 just think they're phenomenal and they're they're building themselves into 1:20:57.400 --> 1:20:59.840 a stadium act with their with their live show, and 1:21:00.080 --> 1:21:01.760 so you know, the plan for them is is to 1:21:01.760 --> 1:21:04.439 tournament one of the biggest acts in the world you know, uh, 1:21:04.479 --> 1:21:06.519 they made they made sort of a they made Solace 1:21:06.600 --> 1:21:09.080 was was a was sort of a very personal album. 1:21:09.120 --> 1:21:11.400 It was a little bit of a down mood. It 1:21:11.560 --> 1:21:14.960 streamed fairly well, it hasn't exploded. I don't believe we've 1:21:14.960 --> 1:21:19.320 really reached on on on the record label side of things, 1:21:19.439 --> 1:21:23.000 a new audience, um, but we really solidify the audience. 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:26.120 But live, it's amazing what's going on. It was actually 1:21:26.120 --> 1:21:29.200 twenty one thousand people. It was their biggest show ever ever. 1:21:29.320 --> 1:21:31.760 And they're doing Ali Pally in the UK this week 1:21:31.800 --> 1:21:34.439 which is ten thousand plus. They just come off here 1:21:34.439 --> 1:21:37.160 of doing two Red Rocks at seven thousand plus, so 1:21:37.360 --> 1:21:41.400 they're massive in Australia where they're truly truly stars. Um there. 1:21:41.479 --> 1:21:43.200 The plan is for them to get in the studio 1:21:43.280 --> 1:21:45.720 and make a new record that maybe is a bit 1:21:45.720 --> 1:21:47.920 more commercially leaning, but you know they're going to make 1:21:47.960 --> 1:21:49.519 the music they want to make. Okay, So would you 1:21:49.520 --> 1:21:51.439 give them input? Say this is a hit not a 1:21:51.520 --> 1:21:53.600 hitter on want my hit? Yeah, we're we're what we 1:21:53.640 --> 1:21:56.000 always want to hit, right. I'm not when you say, hey, 1:21:56.040 --> 1:21:58.000 I don't hear it hit, but you know you hits 1:21:58.120 --> 1:22:00.560 hit Sir, you can't really just manufacture said there's a 1:22:00.600 --> 1:22:03.320 magic to it. You can there there are certain writers 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:05.960 and producers that have formulas that they apply and and 1:22:06.000 --> 1:22:08.479 they work from time to time. But um, for an 1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:11.559 act that's that's self contained, like Rufus their proper old 1:22:11.560 --> 1:22:14.679 school band in that way, they they've been on album cycles, 1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:17.160 were just like, we we need more product from them 1:22:17.240 --> 1:22:19.280 to come out when they're doing a great job. It's 1:22:19.320 --> 1:22:21.160 early days still for us in that in that kind 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:23.519 of arc of their career, but we need more product 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:25.640 from them, more music, more connectivity, and they're doing a 1:22:25.680 --> 1:22:28.200 tremendous job touring. But then we need to keep that 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:31.719 virtuous cycle going. And and but yeah, you know they'll 1:22:31.760 --> 1:22:34.320 they'll go into the studio and and maybe they're in 1:22:34.360 --> 1:22:36.679 a brighter mood than they were on Solace because usually 1:22:36.760 --> 1:22:39.280 hits are pretty happy, you know, even if their breakup hits, 1:22:39.280 --> 1:22:42.000 they have a brightness to them. Um, And we'll see 1:22:42.040 --> 1:22:43.760 what happens. But I'm not I don't want to put 1:22:43.760 --> 1:22:46.320 any undue pressure on them because I don't think that 1:22:46.400 --> 1:22:49.040 it's fair and I think that what's going to happen 1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:50.800 with them is the market is more likely to come 1:22:50.840 --> 1:22:52.920 around to them than them coming around to the market, 1:22:53.160 --> 1:22:56.880 and those are always the best. Longvity. Okay, to what 1:22:57.000 --> 1:23:00.000 degree we talked about socials, you ever have an actually 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:02.320 don't want to make a deal. I mean everyone picking 1:23:02.320 --> 1:23:04.840 and choosing. But someone say, like the old days, hey 1:23:04.960 --> 1:23:07.719 I my credibility. I don't wanna tie up with any 1:23:07.720 --> 1:23:09.880 brands or anything. Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean I mean 1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:11.920 less and less it doesn't happen. It's more, I don't 1:23:11.920 --> 1:23:13.640 want to do that sort of brand. I want to 1:23:13.680 --> 1:23:15.840 do the cool brand, whatever they whatever they think is 1:23:15.880 --> 1:23:18.639 appropriate for them. And we're fully supportive that. We never 1:23:18.680 --> 1:23:21.599 make anybody doing it. We can't make anybody doing Okay. Now, 1:23:21.840 --> 1:23:23.840 Scott Cohn is a friend of mine. He works in 1:23:23.920 --> 1:23:27.599 your company, I don't know, chief technical officer or something, 1:23:28.160 --> 1:23:31.280 and he was telling about this new data plan and 1:23:31.479 --> 1:23:33.840 Zach with Scooter was going on with me about that. 1:23:33.880 --> 1:23:36.240 Warner has a new way of looking at acts, a 1:23:36.240 --> 1:23:39.599 new way of collecting data such that you literally know 1:23:39.960 --> 1:23:42.840 who every fan is of an act and you will 1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:47.840 monetize that relationship. I'd like to see. It sounds great, 1:23:48.560 --> 1:23:52.080 not something you're employing. Well, I'm aware of of what 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:54.720 you're talking about. It's in beta. It's in beta right 1:23:54.720 --> 1:23:57.599 now and I'm looking forward to and when we have 1:23:57.840 --> 1:24:00.479 there's there's there's an artist dashboard we have that we 1:24:00.520 --> 1:24:03.040 share with artists. That's new and it's really terrific if 1:24:03.080 --> 1:24:06.120 that's what he's talking about. And now he's talking about 1:24:06.160 --> 1:24:08.240 something you know different as I say, you know, he's 1:24:08.240 --> 1:24:11.519 a blue Sky guy anyway. So but we have the answers. 1:24:11.600 --> 1:24:14.200 So just before we wrap it up, anything you need 1:24:14.240 --> 1:24:18.400 to say that we haven't covered, because I tear about 1:24:18.400 --> 1:24:24.639 the gear here, I'm wonderful. Um, yeah, we've covered a lot. 1:24:24.880 --> 1:24:26.200 We've covered a lot, but I want to make sure 1:24:26.240 --> 1:24:28.559 you get your say of anything. And I'm very grateful 1:24:29.120 --> 1:24:31.160 for the time in the platform. Okay, but as I say, 1:24:31.200 --> 1:24:33.720 you know, you're sitting in a different perspective from me, 1:24:33.840 --> 1:24:36.040 so maybe there's something I don't see. Yeah, I just 1:24:36.080 --> 1:24:39.280 think that, you know, from from where I sit, there's 1:24:39.280 --> 1:24:41.920 a lot of people that a lot of people that 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:45.000 have an agenda about undermining what labels do when major 1:24:45.080 --> 1:24:47.960 labels do, and and I think some of them can 1:24:48.000 --> 1:24:51.280 substantiate it to a point, but most of them can't. 1:24:51.720 --> 1:24:55.360 And that labels so but but not notwithstanding that, the 1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:59.479 criticisms constructively are taken constructively, and we have to morph, 1:24:59.680 --> 1:25:01.920 and we have to change our skill set and retrain 1:25:01.960 --> 1:25:04.760 our people and get new ideas and innovation, and people 1:25:04.760 --> 1:25:07.519 like Scott will help with that. And we we are 1:25:07.560 --> 1:25:10.679 working very hard at Warner and Warner Music Group of 1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:15.720 you know, creating a different sort of channels so that 1:25:15.720 --> 1:25:19.280 that dashboard or that information you know, does come to 1:25:19.360 --> 1:25:21.960 light and is shareable with our acts so that we 1:25:22.000 --> 1:25:25.160 provide a real added value down the line. And I 1:25:25.160 --> 1:25:27.720 think what we provide now is more than adequate, but 1:25:27.800 --> 1:25:29.800 we we need to get better. We need to get 1:25:29.840 --> 1:25:33.200 more integrated with the agenda, not just of the artists, 1:25:33.280 --> 1:25:36.040 but with our partners and what we're doing, and more 1:25:36.040 --> 1:25:38.839 aligned so that so that our place at the table 1:25:39.200 --> 1:25:44.960 is solid. It's explainable, it's transparent, it's understandable, and more 1:25:45.000 --> 1:25:48.400 than anything, it's we can implement it. You know that 1:25:48.520 --> 1:25:51.360 we gets a couple of questions. You now, the unlike 1:25:51.360 --> 1:25:55.200 in the physical days, these streaming companies pay more frequently. 1:25:55.720 --> 1:25:58.200 So if I'm an act, let's just as sue, for 1:25:58.240 --> 1:26:00.639 the sake of discussion, I'm in the black, how often 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:03.000 would I get paid the same six month period or 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:06.320 would be moment, it's it's it's six months. Yeah, okay, 1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:08.559 so let's just go one step further. You talk about 1:26:08.560 --> 1:26:11.640 the major label. I am old enough to remember the 1:26:12.439 --> 1:26:14.800 days where if you weren't on the major label, you 1:26:14.920 --> 1:26:17.639 essentially weren't a player. First, you probably couldn't afford to record, 1:26:17.920 --> 1:26:20.519 but you couldn't get on the radio. And if you've 1:26:20.520 --> 1:26:23.240 got me in the famous stories Bobby Womack and Beverly 1:26:23.280 --> 1:26:25.080 Glenn Records, he had a platinum out and put the 1:26:25.120 --> 1:26:28.480 company out of business because they literally couldn't collect the money. 1:26:28.560 --> 1:26:33.480 So we know there's more music being made than ever before. Okay, 1:26:33.720 --> 1:26:36.280 granted most of it is literally not listened to. If 1:26:36.320 --> 1:26:38.880 you go on Spotify, there are millions of tracks that 1:26:38.960 --> 1:26:43.160 have never been listened to. So this vastness where the 1:26:43.200 --> 1:26:47.320 major labels there used to be six controlled everything. What 1:26:47.360 --> 1:26:50.360 do we say to the There are certain genres, like 1:26:50.360 --> 1:26:53.160 we talked about plesbur that traditionally the major labels are 1:26:53.160 --> 1:26:55.439 not looking for, But there was a time they put 1:26:55.439 --> 1:26:58.120 out everything. They were the only avenue. Is there a 1:26:58.600 --> 1:27:01.280 what are your thoughts about all all these other scenes 1:27:02.040 --> 1:27:05.880 that the major labels are presently not in um They 1:27:05.920 --> 1:27:09.519 have they have relevance and vibrancy, and there's and now 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:13.520 there's very little friction once you're a subscriber to Discovery 1:27:13.600 --> 1:27:17.160 and Too and to Access and they have to battle 1:27:17.200 --> 1:27:20.880 their way to whatever relevancy they do because they fight 1:27:20.960 --> 1:27:24.479 at a different weight class. But everybody there's a champion 1:27:24.479 --> 1:27:27.240 of every weight class. You know, it just depends on 1:27:27.280 --> 1:27:30.440 which weight class you're in. Okay, so you would anticipate 1:27:30.479 --> 1:27:32.479 the main We have none such by the way. Okay. 1:27:32.560 --> 1:27:35.200 So it's an affiliated label to Warn't Warner Records, and 1:27:35.240 --> 1:27:38.240 they have wonderful acts. You know that Vagabond is just 1:27:38.280 --> 1:27:40.120 as a record that came out this week. I urge 1:27:40.120 --> 1:27:42.960 everybody to listen to it. She's terrific. You know. You 1:27:43.000 --> 1:27:45.160 have Yola, you know, which was produced by one of 1:27:45.200 --> 1:27:48.200 the Black Keys. She's terrific. You know. At the same time, 1:27:48.200 --> 1:27:50.519 you have David Byrne on the label, you know who 1:27:50.680 --> 1:27:52.760 we don't have to explain David Byrne, Dewey, he's a 1:27:52.800 --> 1:27:55.559 wonderful you know, all timers. Let's just stay with none 1:27:55.600 --> 1:27:59.280 such So none such reports to you, yeah, okay, So 1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:03.200 certainly if most revenue is from streaming these days, we 1:28:03.280 --> 1:28:07.200 know those records tend to have presently very little streams. 1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:11.000 It's challenging, I would think would be very challenging to 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:13.320 make money on those records. So look, if you're looking 1:28:13.400 --> 1:28:17.080 at traditionally what none such did, Yes, they're in they're 1:28:17.120 --> 1:28:18.840 in a in a position where they're more fitting and 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:22.200 pivoting into the streaming area. So that's and at the 1:28:22.240 --> 1:28:25.360 top of the agenda for the management they're having. Said that, 1:28:25.400 --> 1:28:28.760 though we touched on Suburban, who I think five years 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:31.120 ago would have been just a rock act, you know 1:28:31.320 --> 1:28:33.880 that was put into a certain basket. But because of 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:37.120 what he's brought to the market, there's now a streaming 1:28:37.120 --> 1:28:39.839 story behind Suburban, and now radio is going to follow 1:28:39.840 --> 1:28:42.479 that or the traditional sort of outlets to go if 1:28:42.680 --> 1:28:45.080 none such none such hat. That's why I mentioned Yolo 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:48.160 because I think where I mentioned Vagabond, none such as 1:28:48.200 --> 1:28:50.800 morphing into that area. And that's down to A and 1:28:50.960 --> 1:28:54.400 R and marketing and understanding that that whilst some of 1:28:54.439 --> 1:28:58.200 their artists may struggle to stream, there's a new generation 1:28:58.240 --> 1:29:00.760 of artists that might not be that different from what 1:29:00.840 --> 1:29:03.280 those artists are, but they're of a certain generation. They 1:29:03.320 --> 1:29:05.679 might be digital natives who know how to communicate differently 1:29:05.760 --> 1:29:09.000 or more efficiently, and their marketing and their promotion has 1:29:09.040 --> 1:29:11.080 to be on point with how the market moves today, 1:29:11.680 --> 1:29:14.920 and certainly all the genres you know, the audiences will 1:29:15.000 --> 1:29:18.479 ultimately move to streaming. Hip hop was there first, but 1:29:19.200 --> 1:29:22.240 you know countries, you know better streaming than average country 1:29:22.320 --> 1:29:24.880 is better than rock. Okay, you've been listening to a 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:29.120 comprehensive viewpoint of what is going on in with the 1:29:29.120 --> 1:29:32.400 big cahuna the major label world. Someone who's literally worked 1:29:32.439 --> 1:29:36.880 at all major labeled groups by today's standards. And Tom, 1:29:36.880 --> 1:29:39.160 thanks so much for being here, Bob. It's been my pleasure. 1:29:39.479 --> 1:29:43.280 So once again, that's Tom Courson, co Chairman, CEO O 1:29:43.680 --> 1:29:47.320 of Warner Music. Until next time. This is Bob website