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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Ups Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Calm Courson, who's presently co chairman

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Warrener Records, but he seems to have

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Speaker 1: worked at every label, A and M Capital you know,

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Speaker 1: Sony and now Warner. What makes Warner different from any

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Speaker 1: of your other situations. Yeah, this is an exciting thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me. First of all, absolutely glad to

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Speaker 1: have you here, glad to be We've known each other

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Speaker 1: a long time, Absolutely big fan. And you know when

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Speaker 1: I think i've we first encountered each other, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybefore at when they had Giant and Brian Adams they

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Speaker 1: played on the sound stage in Your wife was pregnant

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Speaker 1: at the time. I believe she would have been very

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Speaker 1: good of you to remember that and delivered a nice,

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Speaker 1: healthy girl at that time. On top of our boy,

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Speaker 1: what are they? How old? How old are your kids today?

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Speaker 1: And thirty? Our daugh will be twenty nine in a week.

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Speaker 1: What are they up to? Our daughter is just graduated

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Speaker 1: from Chinese medical school, so she'll be your acculates, your

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Speaker 1: natural path. And our son is in banking, in finance

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Speaker 1: and he's an analyst at A at essentially a hedge fund.

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Speaker 1: And where is that hedge fund? They're both here, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: both our kids in l A. Okay, Yeah we did

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Speaker 1: meet at A and M for sure. So but let's

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Speaker 1: start with today. What makes Warner different from other labels

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Speaker 1: with this? Yeah, the opportunity that that I've taken taken

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Speaker 1: on a Warner, you know, twenty one months ago, is unique. Um.

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Speaker 1: You take one of the greatest record labels in the

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Speaker 1: history struggling, you know, really trying to find its way, uh,

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Speaker 1: and looked at it as an incredible chance to bring

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Speaker 1: a great, great mark, a great great brand back to

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Speaker 1: it's heyday. Okay, And what have you done well in

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Speaker 1: the last twenty one months, Bob? We have changed so

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Speaker 1: much to the label. We've we've we've flipped fifty of

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Speaker 1: the roster. We had a very kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: album oriented, not urban, not particularly pop leaning roster, and

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Speaker 1: we freshened it up with a lot of urban signings,

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Speaker 1: a lot of pop signings, Uh, artists that weren't you know,

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Speaker 1: dedicated to just putting out an album in the album

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Speaker 1: cycle business. Some that remain are fantastic And if you

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Speaker 1: think about the Chili Peppers and Green Day and Josh

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Speaker 1: Groban and Michael Boubley, amongst others, their perennials. They're all timers.

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Speaker 1: You you know, you don't you don't turn your back

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Speaker 1: on them. They're wonderful and uh and they have a

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Speaker 1: lot of commercial um vitality in the market. Uh. But

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Speaker 1: we needed to refresh the younger, the younger crop. And

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Speaker 1: Aaron's come in about a year ago. Aaron Bay Chuck

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Speaker 1: my co chairman and CEO. He's put my partner and

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Speaker 1: together we were really calling together a fantastic roster. And

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Speaker 1: so we've've also changed the attitude and the brand of

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Speaker 1: the company. We have a new name, Warner Records, not

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, a new logo with Mark. We've got a

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Speaker 1: new building which is spectacular. We invite everybody to downtown

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Speaker 1: l A into the Arts district on Seventh and Sam

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Speaker 1: a Heo and it's just a started seventh in Santa Fe.

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Speaker 1: Just fantastic. New building was the old Ford Motor Company building.

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Speaker 1: We've changed the entire senior management of the company and

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Speaker 1: quite a few other people and we're bringing a fresh

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Speaker 1: new energy to the company that really it hasn't had

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Speaker 1: many years. Okay, let's go back a chapter. You at

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Speaker 1: r c A. Just before this, I was, uh, how

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Speaker 1: did you decide to jump? Yeah? Our c A. We

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Speaker 1: we had a great run at our c Peter and

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Speaker 1: I took over the label in two thousand eleven. Peter, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Peter Edge and a longtime friend and colleague of mine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we put together a company there that I'm really

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Speaker 1: proud of, you know. Um. And there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that led to it, I'd always but one

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Speaker 1: of the main things I'd always I wanted to move

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Speaker 1: back to l A to be with my family because

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Speaker 1: our kids moved out here. It was time and as

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Speaker 1: you'll remember, I left here in ninety six, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it was time to get back to l A. Had

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Speaker 1: always wanted to come back and talked about working by coastal,

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Speaker 1: which I don't think is really a great leadership strategy,

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Speaker 1: and especially when you're working at a turnaround, you need

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Speaker 1: to be right in the middle of things. Uh. In

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Speaker 1: joyed my time at r c A. Got a lot

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Speaker 1: of respect for the team. They're built the team there.

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Speaker 1: You know. I was different part r S as an

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Speaker 1: amalgam of a number of labels over many years. Uh,

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Speaker 1: starting in in two thousand with Jay Records merging into

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Speaker 1: Arris and so forth. Um and and that was a

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Speaker 1: tough decision. I love Sony, I love the management there,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to move back

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Speaker 1: to l a and to to bring Warner Brothers back

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Speaker 1: to and now warning Warner Records back to two It's

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Speaker 1: Heyday to It's glory. Now are you the one who

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Speaker 1: got Aaron bay Shook to come or was that already

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Speaker 1: in the works when you made the decision? That was

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Speaker 1: already in the works. It was a strategy that Max Lissada,

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Speaker 1: who was the CEO of music group Max Um, put

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Speaker 1: us together. It was an arranged marriage. Did you know Aaron?

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Speaker 1: We had met a couple of times, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: know him. Um and admired him from a distance. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, his energy is great, his his track record

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Speaker 1: is impressive. Signing Bruno Mars working with some of the

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Speaker 1: artists he's worked with over the years. Uh and just

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Speaker 1: actually more than anything, just sitting down talking with them

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Speaker 1: knowing we had really similar or almost the same values

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Speaker 1: of what we wanted to do and uh and where

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Speaker 1: we where we weren't quite on the same page. We've

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Speaker 1: called cobbled together a strategy and and emission statement and

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Speaker 1: and and core values that are really working for the company.

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Speaker 1: So what does he do and what do you do? Uh?

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Speaker 1: In the simplest fashion, I'm the operating guy in the

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Speaker 1: marketing and promotion guy, and Aaron is the creative guy

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Speaker 1: and signs in A and RS the acts UH. Together,

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Speaker 1: we we work with our business affairs had Julian Petty

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Speaker 1: and we do the deals and UH and and you

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Speaker 1: know what, Aaron is the guy out finding and and

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Speaker 1: and and recruiting the talent, making the records, finding great

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Speaker 1: A and our people, um, but you know, the best companies.

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Speaker 1: And I think Peter and I had a good, really

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Speaker 1: good relationship that way. Great and our people also have

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Speaker 1: real good marketing instincts. Great marketing people have great A

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Speaker 1: and our instincts, and Aaron embodies that. And as we

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Speaker 1: forged together the relationship, I'm really seeing the best of

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Speaker 1: him come out. Okay, even though it's more under his purview.

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Speaker 1: What is it like being an A and R person today?

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Speaker 1: Because certainly in the old days it was about discovering things.

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Speaker 1: Now everything is available on the internet, So what what

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Speaker 1: do you what's the job of the A and Army

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Speaker 1: of today. I don't think the job is essentially changed.

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Speaker 1: It's to find amazing artists who make really stellar records

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Speaker 1: that hopefully become hits or they become something more more

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Speaker 1: more cultural, if you will, and and and kind of

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Speaker 1: set a tone for for music and and and for

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Speaker 1: great artistry. And there's room for that at great labels still, um.

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Speaker 1: But essentially it's it's making great records and making hit

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Speaker 1: songs and finding and creating stars and and you know.

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Speaker 1: So that's that starts with the A and R Department

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Speaker 1: and the people that are out there doing the research

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Speaker 1: and going to see acts and and you know, and

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Speaker 1: and it isn't it isn't always the ones with the

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Speaker 1: with the greatest data that that end up working, you know.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's it's a very data focus, data leaning

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Speaker 1: approach these days. And but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: more than one label usually has the same data, more

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Speaker 1: than one A and our person is usually checked out

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Speaker 1: the act before we go deeper into the data. UM.

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Speaker 1: Having had a long career and most of it at

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Speaker 1: the top, have you ever directly signed an act? I have?

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Speaker 1: I have a few over there is Pentatonics. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was heavily involved with signing radio Head to the

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Speaker 1: US label at the time, UM, and and kind of

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Speaker 1: led the charge on that to Capital when Halmilgram was

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Speaker 1: running it. Uh, you know, and on and on. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've and and i've and I'm always involved in

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Speaker 1: in in I'm not always I'm almost always involved in

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Speaker 1: everything that signed. Le tell us the story of Pentatonics

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Speaker 1: because that was certainly something from left field relative the

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Speaker 1: traditional record business and was ultra successful. Yeah. Look they

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Speaker 1: had there, they came off the sing off they had

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Speaker 1: you know, nobody picked him up that it was a

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Speaker 1: direct to Sony sort of relationship. Um. Other labels had

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Speaker 1: passed on. In fact, we passed on him a number

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Speaker 1: of times. For those who don't know. This is an

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Speaker 1: acapella group. Yes, a very unusual group who now doing

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Speaker 1: arenas and and have our superstars you know, and wonderful

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Speaker 1: people as well. Uh. They I've been watching them for

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Speaker 1: a while and and and and Linny Beer had who Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he co manages them with Jonathan Caulter and and

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Speaker 1: the Hits management team does it. Had brought it to

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Speaker 1: me a couple of times and I've taken in the

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Speaker 1: CD A and R meeting, and I got the answer

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Speaker 1: I expected, which was, Hey, this is great, but we

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Speaker 1: don't get it. We don't know how that fits into

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Speaker 1: what we do. And at some point what happened was

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Speaker 1: we just saw what was going on at the time

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Speaker 1: at iTunes that their Christmas EP was going off going,

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Speaker 1: so they put that out independently. They did how long

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Speaker 1: after the TV show that was about, Well, it depends

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Speaker 1: on which piece of product, but at the time we

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Speaker 1: looked at it, I believe it was about three years

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Speaker 1: after after they were okay. So it's just funny that

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Speaker 1: there's that much, you know, stickiness in the marketplace. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: they broke off a YouTube Initially, they had their own

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel. They were like a top twenty YouTube music channel,

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Speaker 1: and and everyone was sort of like not liking them.

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Speaker 1: They weren't they weren't they weren't sexy or ed g

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Speaker 1: in the way that labels generally look at things. And

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Speaker 1: and so I've always had a marketing as you know,

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Speaker 1: my I'm a marketer by by training, and so I

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Speaker 1: looked at it and eventually I just went to Peter

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Speaker 1: and I said, Peter, I'm signing this, and he was

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Speaker 1: very supportive and he said, okay, great, I hope it works.

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Speaker 1: You know, I said, it's gonna work to some degree.

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna lose money because you can see what's

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Speaker 1: going on here, and because I like to think I'm

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Speaker 1: a pretty good marketer. We knew what to do with it.

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Speaker 1: The team bought in, Uh, well what did you do

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Speaker 1: with it? Well, you know, we we did the things

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Speaker 1: that they were incapable of doing in terms of maybe

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Speaker 1: funding or having access to the right things. And ultimately

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Speaker 1: it was making sure that you know, the product was

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Speaker 1: was well explained to retail at the time because a

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Speaker 1: lot of it was was physical that we already had

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Speaker 1: a partner in Apple and iTunes, who were very supportive.

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Speaker 1: Amazon had at that time was was you know, more

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Speaker 1: physical leading, and they they really saw a market for it.

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Speaker 1: You can imagine with the Amazon consumer being maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bit older and a little bit more mainstream and

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Speaker 1: a little bit where our center of America not coastal

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Speaker 1: and hipster leaning, that was a no brainer for them.

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Speaker 1: Up in the YouTube was an incredible partner. We doubled

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Speaker 1: down on YouTube and video and the way you go

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Speaker 1: about it and so forth, and we just for those

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Speaker 1: who don't know. When you're in the belly of the beast,

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Speaker 1: how do you double down on YouTube? What does that

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Speaker 1: look like? Well, you know you can you you dissect

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Speaker 1: the algorithm. You look at all the different various touch

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Speaker 1: points where you can reach an audience. You have data

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Speaker 1: and information. It's a little bit slower, so what might

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Speaker 1: those touch points be? Uh, you know, different YouTube channels

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Speaker 1: you g C opportunities that you know you can you

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Speaker 1: can point to and and have people do their own

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Speaker 1: kind of versions of videos if you will, or whatever

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Speaker 1: happens in the u g C page really slow. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you have something you want to work. It has some traction.

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Speaker 1: So then you search who has a good audience on

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Speaker 1: YouTube and approach them. Yeah you have you did the research.

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Speaker 1: You didn't like audiences where they're sharing, where there's some crossover,

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Speaker 1: and then you put these these Then you pitch these

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Speaker 1: videos for playlisting or whatever within the YouTube you know ecosphere.

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Speaker 1: And it's changed a lot since then, but it's essentially

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Speaker 1: let's jump. Yeah, then that's how you would do it.

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Speaker 1: Now it's, as I say, since that physical error is

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Speaker 1: essentially over, how do you deal with YouTube. Now, um well,

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Speaker 1: YouTube is a great partner. They they they they are

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Speaker 1: the you know you you you you like anybody you

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Speaker 1: introduced them to. The artists you get you get them

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Speaker 1: the information, You get them excited about about the content,

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Speaker 1: and you differentiate the artist from one another from thousands

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Speaker 1: of other artists. You might be, you know, a band,

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Speaker 1: or a white female or an urban person or you

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Speaker 1: know whatever, whatever they whatever, the kind of category you

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Speaker 1: put them in, and and and and and obviously you know,

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Speaker 1: they've got to get excited about the music and the

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Speaker 1: content that's presented. Because we're storytellers, you know, we're brand builders.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we work very obviously,

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Speaker 1: we work with the brand, which is the hardest product.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we sit there and say, okay, well

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Speaker 1: you are you you you are similar to these sort

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Speaker 1: of artists or these sort of you know records. And

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Speaker 1: I always say, you know, I know you're totally unique,

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Speaker 1: but what do you sound like? That's right, what do

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Speaker 1: you sound like? And what what are you about? And

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Speaker 1: you and with everything going socially today, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: ultimately all about the music and the content, but it's

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Speaker 1: also you know, about the story, about the conversation that

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Speaker 1: they're having directly with their fans, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: we amplify that, you know, by by going to places,

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Speaker 1: whether it's playlisting that they can't get because they're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily aligned or can't get in the media. Let's just

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Speaker 1: assume that just stupid. Let's go back one more chapter though,

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Speaker 1: so it tell us the stories signing Radiohead. Yeah, well Radiohead.

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Speaker 1: What happened was it was passed on by every US

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Speaker 1: label in the EMI system at the time. Um, everyone

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Speaker 1: was excited about other acts. They were a little more

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Speaker 1: already creep was. It was a modest hit in the UK,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden and it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: such an old school story, but all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: Live on A five specialty show started playing it in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, and we noticed because I was trying to

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Speaker 1: get it signed to to Capital, and so I went

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Speaker 1: to my wonderful US at the time, Hill Milgram. I said, hey, Hale,

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Speaker 1: you see what's going on over here. And there's a

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Speaker 1: guy named Rob Gordon who deserves full credit too. We

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Speaker 1: were both excited about it. Now he switched to Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 1: Where's Rob today? I think Rob's freelancing. I think he's

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Speaker 1: a consultant. Um and and Rob and I got excited

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Speaker 1: and said, do you mind if we take uh, if

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Speaker 1: we take five thousand CD singles and see the market

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Speaker 1: in the Bay Area And they sold out immediately and

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Speaker 1: then the rest is sort of history. So did I

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Speaker 1: signed them, pick them up? Whatever? Okay? But I was

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Speaker 1: very I was very instrumental doing okay, But did you

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Speaker 1: have an inkling of what they would turn into? No?

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Speaker 1: I thought I thought they were great. But you know,

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Speaker 1: Pablo Honey is a good It's a really good album.

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Speaker 1: It's not their best album. You know. I'll let everyone

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Speaker 1: argue about whether each one it is. I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: all they all have their own special place in folks hearts,

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Speaker 1: but they but Tom was special. The players in the

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Speaker 1: band were really solid. They were growing as a live band. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They had a point of view. And and when the

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Speaker 1: Bins came in and we heard that album, uh, it

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, this is a great act.

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Speaker 1: And uh. I left shortly thereafter and moved to Columbia.

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Speaker 1: But I'm really proud of the band. And they were

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Speaker 1: wonderful people. And and the two managers were terrific and

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Speaker 1: we had a great time. And you know they've gone

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Speaker 1: on on to do to be radio ahead. And let's

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Speaker 1: stay with that for one second, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: bands with longevity will say I signed and everybody was here.

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Speaker 1: I'm still at the label. Nobody I ever had any

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Speaker 1: business with its still there. So what's that like when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to convince people to go with you? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, well, look I I point out that I

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Speaker 1: was at at our c A and some version of

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Speaker 1: it for almost twenty years, you know, And so I'm

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Speaker 1: not a guy who's bounced around a lot, even though

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Speaker 1: I I had an average in my first you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe fifteen twenty years of my career of every five

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Speaker 1: or six years moving labels, which you know, I think

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Speaker 1: for a young person in the business is not a

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Speaker 1: bad strategy. Get different experiences, work with different people, make relationships,

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Speaker 1: um and and and have more than one way to

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Speaker 1: do things and and labels are different and experiences are different. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But and then settling down where I really enjoyed the

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Speaker 1: whole process that that I experienced from two thousand to

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen of of being in that system, and

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Speaker 1: I liked I liked the BMG and Sony systems a lot.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that that they were very good

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Speaker 1: to to to what I was trying to accomplish, which was,

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Speaker 1: you know, helped create big stars and big brands and

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Speaker 1: nurture the ones that were on their way. Um, and

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Speaker 1: we had a great team. I worked for some of

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Speaker 1: the all time great people in the business, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I uh, you know, you know that process was

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Speaker 1: was really a lot of fun. And um, let's get

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Speaker 1: back to the question I think I've lost. You know,

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Speaker 1: you said you were there for eighteen years and I

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Speaker 1: sell artists. Yeah, Look, I tell artists is like I'm

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Speaker 1: a stable guy. I plan on being here for a

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Speaker 1: long time, you know. And uh and and because you

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Speaker 1: know you as an artist that that you know, you're

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Speaker 1: sitting there and it's there. They're on their own, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. They're they're the brand, they're

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Speaker 1: on the marquee, they're on the on the top of

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Speaker 1: the of the package, whatever that looks like, whether it's

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Speaker 1: digital or physical. And so at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it works or not, it's on it's

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Speaker 1: on them. And what happens in the meantime they have

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Speaker 1: to own. So so my pitch to them is like, look,

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Speaker 1: I plan on being around Aaron plans on being around

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Speaker 1: here for a long time, you know, and uh and

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Speaker 1: and so our expectation is that will be going through

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Speaker 1: many cycles together, many ups and downs, but that will

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Speaker 1: have some measure of success and satisfaction together. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and and that doesn't always work out, you know,

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Speaker 1: people change. And I'm the whatever, i am the fifth

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Speaker 1: leader of of Warner Records, Warner Brothers Records. But you know,

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Speaker 1: what I'd like to think is that my track record

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Speaker 1: will help and my success will help pave a way

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Speaker 1: for a really stable company for a long time. That's actually,

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Speaker 1: that's actually okay, let's really slow it down and start. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm an artist, Okay, we'll make it really left field.

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Speaker 1: I'm a very successful klezmer artist. Will you sign music

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Speaker 1: in any genre or music that you feel is the

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Speaker 1: easiest to market to the largest segment of the market,

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Speaker 1: which now is basically hip hop and pop um. We

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Speaker 1: may not sign the klezmer artist, however, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: we're interested in artists that move culture. We're interested in

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Speaker 1: artists that move units. We're interested an artist that want

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Speaker 1: hits and want to be global. Um, we're a big

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Speaker 1: major label. So we have a new mission statement art

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Speaker 1: plus impact art representing the scrappiness of an indie and

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Speaker 1: the ability to be open to different forms of music.

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Speaker 1: So we're generalists in that sense, you know. And at

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Speaker 1: the same time, we're we're we're we're broadly generalists and

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Speaker 1: globalists that we want to create an impact that an

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Speaker 1: impact of a major can can can provide. So therefore,

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Speaker 1: the short answer is we're open to things that can

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Speaker 1: really move culture and move units and and be big

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Speaker 1: global Okay, talking presently, let's just say I'm a rock band.

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Speaker 1: I have fewer than a million streams on Spotify, and

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Speaker 1: I don't have a big audience on YouTube. But when

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Speaker 1: you when people see them this act, they say, this

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Speaker 1: is unbelievable. Yeah, what does what does warners say that?

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Speaker 1: I think we? I think we. Then it's a value judgment,

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Speaker 1: you know. Then it's like, do we have a vision?

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Speaker 1: Do we have a shared vision for this artist? When

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Speaker 1: we sit down with them, we're excited about them, we

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Speaker 1: see potential. So it's old school A and R. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's old school marketing. It's like Hey, do we see

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Speaker 1: a path for this artist that maybe not everybody sees,

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Speaker 1: you know, and everybody has their own unique lens that

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Speaker 1: they look at artists through. Because once then, by the way,

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Speaker 1: even if the data is great, you know, and the

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Speaker 1: data points you in a certain direction, uh, there are

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Speaker 1: a number of labels that won't go after something they

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Speaker 1: have because that then it comes down to the taste

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Speaker 1: and the culture within the label and where the artist

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Speaker 1: fits and do we have a point of view, do

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Speaker 1: we have a vision for this artist and does is

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Speaker 1: it shared with the artist? And so you know, there

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Speaker 1: are very few artists that that all labels go for,

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Speaker 1: you know, and for different reasons, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: it is cultural. They just they don't mesh up nicely.

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Speaker 1: You have a good meeting with one label, you have

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Speaker 1: not such a good meeting with another label. And so

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Speaker 1: from our standpoint, you know, it's can be data driven,

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Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, we have to

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Speaker 1: feel the music. Okay. So you stated earlier that you've

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Speaker 1: uh moved Warner more into the urban sphere. So if

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Speaker 1: you look at the data today, if we look at

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Speaker 1: Spotify top fifty, that is almost all hip hop and

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Speaker 1: pop and for those people who don't make that kind

401
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Speaker 1: of music. Is a major label the right place for them?

402
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Speaker 1: Are you interested in them? So that we have an artist,

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Speaker 1: Suburban that we signed right now and and which is

404
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Speaker 1: streaming like a growing pop hip hop artist, but he's

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Speaker 1: like more rock leaning, you know, and now starting to

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Speaker 1: try at alternative radio. So okay, so let's start with that.

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Speaker 1: When you signed Suburban, what was the status of both

408
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 1: the act and touring and data, etcetera. It was just

409
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Speaker 1: a song that an Indian put out that we noticed

410
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Speaker 1: that was that was that was streaming, that was moving.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't six million globally like it is now, but

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Speaker 1: it was and it got our attention. And then you

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Speaker 1: get into the qualitative part of it, Okay, the subjective part.

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Speaker 1: You know, we thought that we heard a couple more songs.

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Speaker 1: We were excited by that, we've met the kids. Okay,

416
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Speaker 1: just to be clear, someone on your team just found it.

417
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Speaker 1: It wasn't like you were pitched by a manager region.

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Speaker 1: It was very early and there and and and the

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Speaker 1: song it was with an indie called NCS out of

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Speaker 1: the UK, so we had to go through that as well.

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Speaker 1: But one of our and R guys Stephen Max cited it,

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Speaker 1: picked it up, somebody tipped him to it, He dug

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Speaker 1: in deeply. He went out and met the artist the

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Speaker 1: whole thing and brought it in and said, hey, I

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Speaker 1: want to sign this, and we shared that vision. And

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Speaker 1: then we when we met Suburban the artist, we thought

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Speaker 1: he was terrific. He we thought he had potential. He

428
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 1: played a couple more songs, told us his vision for

429
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: his video of Cradles that just dropped a week or

430
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 1: two ago, and we thought, yeah, we we believe we

431
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: share that vision. Okay, if you sign an act like that,

432
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: is it a traditional deals shall we say, pre internet?

433
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: Where you get a royalty depending on whether it's wholesale retail,

434
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: you know, twelve to twenty or is it more of

435
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 1: a revenue split after costs? What? What is? There's no

436
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: such thing as a standard deal, but someone in that position,

437
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: what kind of deal might they be a? You know,

438
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't remember that specific deal, but

439
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: there's there. There's all sorts of deals that can happen

440
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: now and it depends, like everything, it depends on what

441
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: you want, how that fits with our economics, What leverage

442
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: you have, what leverage we have, you know, and and

443
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: and how you're positioned within within the genre, because there's

444
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: certain genres that are leaning more towards ventures now where

445
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: others are more royalty leaning um, which which more hip hop,

446
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: more hip hop, some pop, but more hip hop because

447
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: hip hop, those are leading in which way a little

448
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: bit more venture, a little more profit shares. But there's exceptions,

449
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and we're not you know,

450
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: we're open to whatever as long as we have a

451
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: fairly you know, long term you know, um investment or

452
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: a long term relationship with the act over you know,

453
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: four or five albums. You know, we'll do we'll do

454
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: lesser from time to time, but our feeling is that

455
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: this is a long term relationship. We're going to build

456
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: a lot of asset value together, and you know, we're

457
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: gonna invest and you know, you know, the odds, the

458
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,719
Speaker 1: odds are that it won't work, you know, and and

459
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: so but we're going to go in and seven figure

460
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: level and in almost every case, and and you know,

461
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: sometimes high seven figure levels before we really see what

462
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: we've got. And and we're up for that. So we

463
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 1: want to know we're in it together. Forget the Bidding

464
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: War Act the average act at this point. You know,

465
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: people don't use this term that much anymore, But is

466
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: it going to have to be a three sixty deal?

467
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: We prefer those and and look at the view on that,

468
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: and they're not as egregious as they used to be

469
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: when people are taking of everything that that I haven't

470
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: seen for a long time. Um, we have a longer,

471
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: more partnership approach we have. We do have a merch

472
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: company and an artist called Artist Services. They're very good

473
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: at what they do. They handle both artists within the

474
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: Warner Music Group and outside. So we feel we can

475
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: scale that in terms of the requirement if you don't

476
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: have a merch deal to sign with your house is

477
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 1: not it is not. We'd prefer it, and but it

478
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: makes things easier on on on a DTC level, on

479
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: a v I P level, on a merched level, we

480
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: can we it's more holistic and and and there's a

481
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: there's a shorter line of communication, that more efficient line

482
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: of communication. Okay, So I've always wondered people might say,

483
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: and I'm not who I'm talking about history as opposed

484
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: to you, and uh, specifically that royalties are not that

485
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: accurate or get paid by the labels, How does the

486
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: label ensure that they're not screwed by the act I'm

487
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: touring in whatever other income there is. Well, we have

488
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: we have language in the agreements that we expect people

489
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: to honor. And at the end of the day, there

490
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: are acts. Most acts do pay you and there and

491
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: they there's there, they step up and there may be

492
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: some accounting that that is might be missing a piece

493
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: or two from time to time, so you have to

494
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: sometimes have that conversation. But by and large, the acts

495
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: or stand up acts and the ones that choose maybe

496
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: not to pay you, there's recourse, um, you know, and

497
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: and you'd prefer to avoid that and just have a

498
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: straight up relationship. Um, but you know, there's future advances

499
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: and royalties and this and that, and you might have

500
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: a language in the deal that says, hey, we can

501
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: recover you know, unpaid three sixty revenue from somewhere else. Um.

502
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: It depends on the deal, It depends on the label

503
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: and when it was done, you know, but we'd prefer

504
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 1: not to get Okay, So let's just assume I have,

505
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, a three album deal within five years and

506
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: it plays out and we both decide to go our

507
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: separate ways. Let's just assume you own the Masters, Okay, uh?

508
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: Is there are there any sunset clauses or anything on

509
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: these other streams of revenue. There may be, you know,

510
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: there may be, but more likely when when our deal expires,

511
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: it expires and you move on. But there may be

512
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: a sunset clause depending on the nature of the conversation

513
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: at the time of the deal was done. Let's go

514
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: to the other extreme, someone like Little Nasax, someone who's

515
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: blowing up traditionally hip hop acts in the last thirty

516
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: six months. The data is there, they're streaming, they're part

517
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: of are is that something you're interested in getting into?

518
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, something that has proven itself such that they

519
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: are willing to go with a major label. But the

520
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: deal is going to be harsh. Yeah. Look, and by

521
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: the way, that the deal for a Little nos X

522
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: wasn't harsh, you know. Um, But look, we have an

523
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: act called n l E. Choppa and Choppa had a

524
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: track called shot a Flow, or has a track called

525
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: shot a Flow which blew up and it was on

526
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: an indie called United Masters. And you know, but it

527
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: was one of the United Masters what's his name? Yeah,

528
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: so so, but he didn't really have any futures, you know,

529
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: he had a he had a short window. Um, and

530
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: so we went after it and and and it was

531
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: a very robust deal and at the end of the

532
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: day we penciled it out and we got the deal. Um.

533
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: We developed. We believe in the kid. We think with

534
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: his name is Bryson. We think he's a star and

535
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: just dropped a track in a video called Camelot, which

536
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: is exploding million streams a week globally. He's he's a

537
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: video you know figure. He just reacts video wise as well,

538
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: and we feel like we got one, you know. Um,

539
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: but he's it's a little early for we're now crossing

540
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: in into urban radio. It's more of a traditional move

541
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: in that sense. Little Nazex has proven to be more

542
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: of a pop facing act at the moment. We're very

543
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: envious of his of his success and excited for for Columbia.

544
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: But you know, we feel like, you know, we've got

545
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: a couple of our own that we're building as well.

546
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: But we're up. We're up for picking up quick hits.

547
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, we're in that business. But we're also

548
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: in the long term artist development business. Okay, but that

549
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: you're signing more urban artists as opposed to the old

550
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: album cycle. So let's assume you signed an active urban

551
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: urban and pop. But at the same time, we're broadening.

552
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: We're a full service company. We've signed rock acts, we

553
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: signed you know, we're we're open to just great artists. Okay,

554
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: So let's but just for the sake of discussion, well,

555
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: any new artists you signed. Okay, in the old days,

556
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: everybody wanted to make their album. Let's just assume I

557
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: don't have incredible traction in the marketplace. What is the

558
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: label going to say relative to product? The label is

559
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: gonna say, let's we're gonna air on the side of

560
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: putting out more product than less. We're gonna do it

561
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: in a way that is customer bespoke to that artist trajectory.

562
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it, uh my

563
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: British relationship. We're gonna do it in a fashion where

564
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: we feel like we have the story and the content

565
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: build around it that makes sense. We're gonna learn probably

566
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: more a track by track and maybe an EP or

567
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: a mixtape depending on what genre it's in. Um and

568
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: but albums are albums still matter because albums become sort

569
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: of the anchor in most cases for the artist brand.

570
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: You know, what do you name the tour? What's the

571
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: theme to what the artist is doing at the moment,

572
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: What are this what's the storyline through the album? In

573
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: many cases, that is the narrative that takes this beyond

574
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: just music and and and just a video. So it's

575
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: talked about socially, it's talked about in fashion. Remember, these

576
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: artists are brands. They have they have they there are

577
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: three and there are three sixty brands in the sense

578
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: that they can do once they're established and they don't

579
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: even have to be that big start working with brands

580
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: and being considered for film and TV, and you know,

581
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: it's a it's a multimedia kind of marketplace now and

582
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: we need to to to keep that in mind whenever

583
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 1: we do things. So the the the cycle you know,

584
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: is always on. However, you have to have a reason

585
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: to come to market with music. You can't just put

586
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: it out in hope. And so that's where we work

587
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: very hard, and that's part of the brand building and

588
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: the narrative and the storyline that that really is the

589
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: essential part of like why this artist, why now? Why

590
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: this music? Why this video, et cetera. What's the story. Okay,

591
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: let's just say you have an artist and a new

592
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: artist real watively unknown. Is it basically fishing? You put

593
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: out single and single and then once if hopefully you

594
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: get traction, then you work on that single specifically. Um,

595
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: that's one. That's one strategy. Yeah, And and that's that's

596
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: a fairly tried and true strategy. And and what you're

597
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: doing with the singles, you're not necessary or the songs

598
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call the tracks. You're not

599
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: expecting everyone to be a single single means kind of

600
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: your you're you're out with the expectation that it's some

601
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: form of a hit. You know, you're you're, you're Sometimes

602
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: you're just telling a story. You know. We might be

603
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: out with a single and put out a couple of

604
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: tracks because maybe that maybe that single needs sort of

605
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: sustenance under it and more of the artist conversation, something

606
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: for the artist to talk about while they're while they're

607
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: working the single, something for the fans to relate to,

608
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: or it has a different reason. So it's all, it's

609
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: all custom, it's all, it's all individually done. Okay, Now,

610
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: my friend Richard Griffiths who managed One Direction and still

611
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: manages Nile Horran and a million million other people. He said,

612
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: a stiff no longer hurt you. That if you put

613
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: out a single it doesn't succeed, there's no tarnish your

614
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: career as long as you come up with hit thereafter.

615
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Yeah, I think I'd largely

616
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: agree with that. But I would say, you know, failure

617
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: always stings, and and and and and it always hopefully

618
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: it's a learning moment and a learning experience, and you

619
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: don't double down on something that didn't work. But but

620
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: you've got it. You can't have too many failures in

621
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: a row, you know. And then, because I think, then

622
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: the question is are we doing the right thing? Is

623
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: this the right music? Is this the right artist? Is

624
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: this actually somebody we can scale to your point earlier,

625
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: our point earlier? Failure is the norm, you know, success

626
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: is unusual when you give up. Okay, So going back

627
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: to the I didn't really formulate this question back to

628
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: the Spotify top fifty, which is essentially hip hop and pop.

629
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: Well that I know you're a full service company, but

630
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: would you leave that way because that is definitive of

631
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: a lucrative marketplace. Well, I mean we have to be competitive, right,

632
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: we have to. We have a I have a p

633
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: n L to to meet, I have a budget to

634
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: to serve to our our owner, you know, and and

635
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: and and our team, and so of course we have

636
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: to be we have to serve the market and what

637
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: the market wants. But you know that doesn't mean you're

638
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: just I mean, what the mistake we could make was

639
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: just doing the same thing that everybody else is doing,

640
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: going to try and to find another little naz X

641
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, who's a needle in a haystack, by the way,

642
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you know, but we want to

643
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: find something that we think is next. Is next in

644
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: hip hop and pop and and you know, pop and

645
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: hip hop and music mute mutate every day. They mutate

646
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: all the time, you hear it. Sounds come in, flavors

647
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 1: come in, hairstyles come in, you know, fashion comes in

648
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: different ways of breaking things. TikTok didn't matter a year ago,

649
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: it's now it's now pushing artists up into the ecosystem

650
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: dramatically and quickly. Um So, yeah, but you know, I

651
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if the next thing that came along

652
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: with some new form of rock that that stunned everybody.

653
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, it wasn't long ago. The twenty

654
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: one pilots, you know, kind of just made this gargantian

655
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: leap from from the alternative sort of touring business to

656
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: having pop hits. You know, Um, I I see that

657
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: coming again. You know it's it's definitely on it. So

658
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: so you know, you can't chase after a genre that

659
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: isn't working. That would be fool harder. You do have

660
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: to pay attention to the market forces, but you can't

661
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: also ignore the fact that music and genres mutate and

662
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: and red redefine and reinvent themselves. Well, certainly on Spotify

663
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: were all the data of the terms of the number

664
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: of streams is visible to everybody if they know how

665
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: to extract it from the desktop. Although it's on the

666
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: most successful singles on every app. Uh, that's hard data.

667
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: How important is the Billboard chart to you? Billboard chart

668
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: is important? Um, it's it's it's it's a it's a

669
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: measure success. It's marketing, it's advertising, it's it's a way

670
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: to kind of look at your competition. We are a business.

671
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: We have to have key performance indicators that we can

672
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: show to justify our needs and also to pitch to

673
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: artists and managers and lawyers and say, look, we're competitive,

674
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: we have x number of records in the top one hundred.

675
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: We have this sort of market share, this sort of

676
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: chart share. This is why we're viable, and and and

677
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: and and and so it does matter. And do we

678
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: live and die off of it every day? No, you know,

679
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: because every day is a different day. We have different

680
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: needs and goals as we as we move along. But

681
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: charts matter, and charts. Charts are also fun. It's fun

682
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: to be number one, top ten, good to be the king.

683
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: It is. But what about you know, many people say

684
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: there's manipulation on the chart now because people are bundlings. Yeah, yeah,

685
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, that's a form of manipulation. It is.

686
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: It is, it is official, it is we we all

687
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: have opportunity to do it. UM. I don't think that

688
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: it's artificial in most cases. I think that it's if

689
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: someone's gaming it, then they're smarter than I am, and

690
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: and that's not hard to do. But you know, being

691
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: smarter than me not it. But you know, it's you know,

692
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: it's unique that you can really drive that much UM

693
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: product you know, you have to be a pretty substantial

694
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: to make it matter to begin with. So so you've

695
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 1: got to get there first and then you can figure out,

696
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, what maneuvers you can make. But you know,

697
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: my my feeling is like game on, you know, I mean,

698
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, as if the consumer is parting with their

699
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: hard earned money and they're voting for their artists, and

700
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: as long as you're not doing something that that is

701
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: is untoward and and and and and you're gaming it,

702
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: then then so be it. But it should be transparent.

703
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: It should be clear what the rules are. It should

704
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: it shouldn't war for every three months because somebody's lobbying,

705
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, to get a number one. It should we

706
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: know it's this and it's not that, and it should

707
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: be very clear. And billboards making great strides to do that, Okay.

708
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: And how important is radio today? Radio is very important today? Um,

709
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: different in a different way than it was before because

710
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: radio is a lot of different things now too, um

711
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: because they you know, they have streaming capabilities. Certainly I

712
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: heeart does and and and XM serious. XM is is

713
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: a great are great marketers, and they're they're great at

714
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: you know, providing a really interesting service and what they do.

715
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: Um and you know, when you look at what I

716
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: Heeart does and and some of the other chains they

717
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: they build out and have, you know, shows and TV

718
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: shows and events, uh and brand affiliations, it can be

719
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: very very helpful. Um So, while while we're going through

720
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: a phase where airplay itself isn't maybe where people discover

721
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: music the way they used to five or six years ago,

722
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: there's an element of that that is still there with

723
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 1: a certain consumer that maybe isn't streaming or just loves

724
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: radio and they love the theater of radio and in

725
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: the relationship they have with it because as you remember,

726
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: radio's local, you know, whereas you know, streaming is global,

727
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: and you know, and and so there's an opportunity at

728
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: that raded that the smart programmers and smart marketers at

729
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 1: radio have to continue to to amplify both the scale

730
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: of what they've got and actually keep things local and

731
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a it's a different form of entertainment.

732
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: But we don't live and die on radio quite the

733
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: same way we used to. But in order to really

734
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: scale a hit song, you've got to have radio. Okay, Now,

735
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: in you know, decades past, a record could have less

736
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: than a two month lifespan on radio. Now the record

737
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: can go for a year. Okay, how do you feel?

738
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: And of course, Lizzo, the record is in the marketplace

739
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: for a long time before it gets on radio. How

740
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: does this affect you on your red I'm sure you're

741
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: frustrated to throw on slots on these stations. Yeah, well

742
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: look yes, but at the same time, you know, there,

743
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: I don't feel it's that I don't feel we're that

744
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: challenged at the moment. I think it's always hard to

745
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: get your song played and and to explain a new song,

746
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: especially off a new act, and so forth and so on.

747
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: And the Lizzo story is amazing. Hats off to her

748
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: and to her team in Atlantic. Um. But yeah, I'd

749
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: like I'd like it to cycle in and out. I'd like,

750
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, they're not to be thirty week number one records.

751
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: I'd like, you know, we'd like to see it be

752
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: more fluid. Um pop still is pretty good at that,

753
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: you know, um other formats alternative seems to take forever. Um.

754
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I don't think it's healthy for the formats and healthy

755
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: for the it's certainly not healthy for the artists and

756
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: and you know, for us, we're partners with radio, So

757
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: I just think it's a challenge. They have to kind

758
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: of think their way through it. But they're they're selling advertising,

759
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: they're in they're in a different game than we are.

760
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: They need familiarity and comfort, and the listener wants it,

761
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: needs to go there and and and and feel like

762
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: they are being super served with what they want and need.

763
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: Unfamiliarity is challenging. It doesn't It isn't always something that

764
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: the consumer wants. Okay, So in the old day, certain

765
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: publicity goals be on late night TV, be covered in

766
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: the newspaper. Uh eight of those things work and be

767
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: if and if they do or they do not. Where

768
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: you focus your marketing efforts these days? Yeah, well, just

769
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: sit to answer the last part of that question. A

770
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: lot of the marketing efforts is some form of digital connection,

771
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, a social connection. So whether that's you know,

772
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: paid uh paid media to to bring attention to an act,

773
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: or whether it's uh moving artists into a space or

774
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: creating content. Let's just be a little you know, let's

775
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: assume you're buying as your paid media. What would that

776
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: literally look like online? It depends on which on which

777
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: which platform here which platform is, Well, we use all

778
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: of them and and they're different depending on the song

779
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: in the genre and how the artist moves and whether

780
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: the urban or pop or let's start with the big

781
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: cohuna Instagram. What might you do on Instagram? Well, instagrams,

782
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, that's more of an artist to fan, you know,

783
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: relationship and and and and unless you know, we'll we'll

784
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: do some we'll do some paid media on that. But

785
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 1: it's it's it's more of a of what you put

786
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: up their content wise, so we'll invest in content, whatever

787
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: that is. We'll invest in whatever that means the story,

788
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: whether it's fashion one moment or whether it's you know,

789
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: teasing the song the next moment or showing something from

790
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: the live show. And that's artists driven. That's really that's

791
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: really direct relationship, as direct as you can get from

792
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: the artists to their to their following. You know. And

793
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: what would you advertise or do something on Twitter? Probably

794
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: not we I mean, we we will do things on Twitter,

795
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: and we won't advertise much on Twitter, um, but but

796
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, we'll try things out. And Facebook has Facebook

797
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: still is relevant for a certain type of acts, and

798
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: obviously they have the biggest scale out there and you

799
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: can move the needle. We did it recently with Michael

800
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: bou Bleg you know and and and what did you

801
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: actually do? We took some ads that that pointed to

802
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: this song forever Now, and it was an activation that

803
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: happened organically off of a mom's related site and there

804
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: was a little bit slower taking the ads on Facebook

805
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: and then what so, here's what happened. There was a

806
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: video for forever Now. Michael has a song out Forever

807
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 1: and Now, off his last latest album, and the video

808
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: was about essentially a kid growing that an empty room

809
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: that changed as a kid grew old, and then the

810
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: kid went off to college and the boxes went up

811
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: and it happened to be picked up by um I

812
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: believe motherly dot com a side directed to moms at

813
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: the time when kids were going back to school, and

814
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: so it evoked an emotion and it went viral, and

815
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: so we were looking to spend that into more spends

816
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: it radio and more sales of the album. So we

817
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: took some ads to to kind of to to amplify

818
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: that that emotion, to amplify that video and to point

819
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: to people, and then we got our press department involved

820
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: so it was. I think Hoda was talking about it

821
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: on the Today Show, and you know, we brought it

822
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: to everybody's attention. That's our job, that's the amplification part

823
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: of it. You might miss it if we didn't publicize it.

824
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: You might miss it if we didn't advertise it. And

825
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: we have the resources and the staff to do that.

826
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: You know, that's what a major label staying with a

827
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: major label. Chance the rapper famously did not have a MA.

828
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: But is c Suee generous? Is there just one of him?

829
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: Or how often are you interested in the act? They

830
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: say no, I want to do it myself. What happened

831
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: very seldom. Chance appears to be a bit of a unicorn.

832
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: They come along every so often and Pat more power

833
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: to him and his team. You know, we actually have

834
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: a label deal with his manager, Pat Corkran that we

835
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: just spun up this year and it's going well. Uh

836
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: so um. But but to me, that's unusual. But but

837
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: in terms of the scale that Chance achieved, But there

838
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: are a lot of acts were being independent might work

839
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: better for them. It depends on how they want to move,

840
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: how they want to be flexible, whether they really want

841
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: to be global superstars. Do they want to have hits?

842
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: They want to stare, you know, out and into that

843
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: vast void and say I can conquer this. You know,

844
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: it's it's a big undertaking and and it takes a

845
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: lot of ambition, focus, and talent, and not everybody has

846
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: all three of those. Now, let's assume you sign everybody's

847
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: a go. What do you say to the acts about

848
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: participation in social media? Well, it looks that they have

849
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: to be natives, they have to feel comfortable with it,

850
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: but they've but it's been really benefits them to be

851
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: in it. And I think it'd be very tough to

852
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: sign an act that just said, hey, I'm not doing anything,

853
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: you know, having said that, there's no rules, we'd have

854
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: to see. Maybe that's the next great move. It's not

855
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: to be involved in social media, but it would make

856
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: it harder for everybody most likely. Let's just assume you

857
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: had a campaign on one social media platform. Facebook is

858
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: probably the easiest, and you didn't go viral. It wasn't

859
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: a matter of you know, some other website picking it up.

860
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: Is that effective? Just pure like a pure advertising play? Um, yeah,

861
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: it depends on the artists. Usually for something like that,

862
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: that's very traditional brand marketing. It's like we have a

863
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: known brand we're communicating, or a known artist we're communicating

864
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 1: the new album that's coming out. We know where they're following.

865
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: Is the research tells us this, The insight tells us

866
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: how to move of the analysis points to Facebook. You know,

867
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: let's go where this artists fans are on Facebook and

868
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: make sure they know that this album single video is

869
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: coming out. Let's go back to the beginning. So you

870
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: grew up where I grew up in Seattle, Washington. Seattle, Washington.

871
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: What did your parents do for a living? My mother

872
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: was a homemaker and my father was a math professor

873
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: at the University of Washington. What professor, math professor, math professor.

874
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that the University of Washington. How many

875
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: kids of the family. Three? I have two older sisters. Well,

876
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: one lives in Connecticut and uh and she's she's now

877
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: full time mom. And my other sister, who's living in

878
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: la is a lawyer since retired. So did your parents

879
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: and your father is certainly a highly educated person. Did

880
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: they impart to you a certain direction they wanted you

881
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: to go in? Now, my my parents would go make

882
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: yourself happy do something you love. And they never really

883
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: understood what I do, but they really liked it. They

884
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: liked that I was happy. Okay, So how big a

885
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: music fan were you growing up? Oh? Pretty big? But

886
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: I honestly never knew it was a business. It never

887
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: occurred to me like I could have a career in

888
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: the music business. I thought. I just never thought of

889
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: it as a job. And I kind of still don't,

890
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: which is the great thing. So I lucked into it,

891
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, I looked into Okay, so you were you

892
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: went to college where U c l A U CE.

893
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: How did you end up going to u c l A.

894
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: I My dad said, you have to go two states

895
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: away minimum and I'll pay for school, but you have

896
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: to go to a public school, the best schools two

897
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: states away. We're in California. And I got into u

898
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: c l A. And because I was a big sports

899
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: fan and I was also a soccer player, and um,

900
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm gonna try to make the team at

901
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: U c l A. And I made the JV team

902
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: for two years and that was a lot of fun

903
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: and uh, but I always thought the U c l

904
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: A was the coolest school out there. And I still

905
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: feel that. Okay, what was your father's logic on the

906
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: two states away? He wanted you to go out. He said, Look,

907
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: while you can be supported and we're not gonna give

908
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: you a lot of money, but we're gonna give you

909
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: enough to live on. You can figure out how life

910
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: really works, and you're gonna manage your life. And you'll

911
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a resource to do that with.

912
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: Will be there if the ship hits the fan. But

913
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: you know you need to go at least two states wis.

914
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 1: You can't just run home every time there's a problem. Okay,

915
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: how good a soccer player were you? Pretty good but

916
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: not good enough? When did you realize you weren't good enough?

917
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: Kind of the first day I showed up and there

918
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: were players from the U. S Olympic team on the field,

919
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, maybe I fight try really hard,

920
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: and and I had. I had great fun, but I

921
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: never was quite good enough to make the varsity. Okay,

922
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: did you get playing time when you were in the

923
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: j V? Oh? Yeah, I started every game. And then

924
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: how did you decide I'm done? Uh? You know, I

925
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: realized after two seasons the coach was just playing as

926
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 1: scholarship players because I practiced with the varsity all the time,

927
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm good enough to play on this team,

928
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: and I probably was, but you know, it wasn't. Maybe

929
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: one of his guys and all that. And then sadly

930
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: the assistant coach kind of liked me. Was this guy

931
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: famous soccer coach. Later on, it turned out the guy

932
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: named Ziggi Schmidt who coached the Galaxy and Seattle Sounders

933
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: and the US Under twenty men's team, and he liked me,

934
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: and I think he kept putting me into the pra

935
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: this is and I'd mark out the forward and I

936
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 1: was a defender, and I'd take care of the ford

937
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: and do a pretty good job. And but but then

938
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: I just I just said, you know, I gotta go

939
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: figure out what I'm gonna do with my life. I

940
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: can't spend the whole summer and the whole fall playing soccer,

941
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: you know, and then think about it the rest of

942
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: the year. And so um, I went off, you know,

943
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: looking for other things to do. But it's kind of

944
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 1: heartbreaking to give up the dream. Yeah, you know what,

945
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: it was the right time, though, And when you give

946
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: up the dream, sometimes the dream has given up on

947
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: you as well. And but I played. I played until

948
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: I was forty seven. You know, really, you know where

949
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: did you play? All over the place? But last time

950
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: at Chelsea Piers, New York five aside. Then I just

951
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: realized as a step behind and about ten years too

952
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: old to do it, and I hung up the spot.

953
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: He played. He went to school at Clarmont McKennon. He

954
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: played four years there is he is a good player. Okay, okay,

955
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: So you go to U C l A and you

956
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: drop out of the soccer track. So then you say,

957
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: I want to find your way. How does it end

958
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: up being music? Well between junior and senior year, Well,

959
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: let me actually rewinding. I was in a fraternity. A

960
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: couple of my fraternity brothers intern at A and M Records,

961
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: and they would come on the people we would know

962
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: they are not They got out of the business many

963
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: years ago. One guy never got beyond an internship. Um

964
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: and then they but they would come home with albums

965
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: and concert tickets and they always had a nice looking

966
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: girl in their arm. And I thought, that's something I'm

967
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: interested in. But I just thought I'd do it as

968
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: an intern and I was supposed to go do it

969
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: a paid internship in the Justice Department and it got

970
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: canceled and my parents and I said, well, can I

971
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: just go to do an unpaid internship in d C?

972
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: And they said no, we won't pay for it, and

973
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: which which is looking back on it turned out to

974
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 1: be exactly. And then that night I got a knock

975
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: on on my door and about midnight and my frister

976
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: living at the fraternity. Living at the frat, my fraternity brother,

977
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: Richard Creo, came in and he said, hey, you remember

978
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: we talked about this thing a couple of months ago.

979
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: Nine o'clock tomorrow, you're coming in with me, And I

980
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: said okay, and kind of the rest is history. I

981
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: was a wide eyed kid who didn't know anything about

982
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: the music business, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. Okay,

983
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: But traditionally, especially back then, that was a very hard

984
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: internship to get, really tough, really tough to irony was.

985
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: I thought it was A and M Records, which this

986
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: other guy had. It turned out to be I R

987
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: S Records. And I had no idea when there was so,

988
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: but I was a pretty big music So what year

989
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: are we in? Approximately one? Okay, so the police have

990
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: already broken I R S is and know quant that's right,

991
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 1: I and but I r S was just starting to break.

992
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 1: Literally like the week I started. The Go Goes released

993
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: their first single, and a year later it was multi platinum.

994
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: But they weren't on the map as a label other

995
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: than just being a cool new wave label. Wall of Voodoo,

996
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, the Cramps, etcetera. Wasmon arrees, I mean you

997
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: can go on. Okay, so you work that summer, then

998
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: you go back to school and what go back to school?

999
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: But in turn the whole year and they gave me

1000
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: seventy five bucks a week, thank you j Boberg and

1001
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: Barba Bowl and give me seventy five bucks a week

1002
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: to um to hang around. And so I go to

1003
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: school less and less, and I'm hanging around more and

1004
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: more at the record lab, and I'm doing odd jobs

1005
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: over the week and driving the Go Goes around the concerts,

1006
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: doing things like that, things you do, looking after stings

1007
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: motorcycle because he was Miles was in and out of

1008
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 1: the business, and it was it was so much fun.

1009
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: And uh so I finished school and about a month

1010
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: or so before I finished school, they offered me a

1011
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: job and I accept on the spot. How much money

1012
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: and what kind of job. Well, this is a great story.

1013
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: So Bobrick takes me out to dinner at s J

1014
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: and those people who watch uh Goliath. That's of course

1015
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: where Billy Bob hangs out. That's right. It's a classic

1016
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: old watering hole. So we're sitting there was their office

1017
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: was weird at the A and M lot. Yeah, so

1018
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: which is now Henston Studios. So we go down there

1019
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: to dinner and and Jay says, well, we'd like you

1020
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: to come be our director of merchandising. I think was

1021
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: the first job, whatever that was. And I said, great,

1022
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: how much? He goes to fifty a week? And I'm

1023
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: think about it for a second, and I said, you know,

1024
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: j I didn't go to college to make less than

1025
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: three hundred. He goes done, Well, what inspired you to negotiate?

1026
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: I had to stick up for myself. But then I

1027
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: realized that it was the first bad deal I made.

1028
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: You know, I could have come up with an extra

1029
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: fifty bucks. Although, funny enough, Jay and I remained friends,

1030
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: uh and and he said, you know, Tom, there there

1031
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: were weeks when I didn't get paid, so everybody else could.

1032
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: So it was probably you know, as much as he

1033
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: could he could spring for it and your parents were

1034
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: fine with you making three a week. They were fine, okay, fine,

1035
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: So you go to work and what does it look like?

1036
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm doing everything. I'm I'm i'm merchandizing

1037
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: record stores back in the day when you would put

1038
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: up posts. Jason how Jason Flam started to that's right,

1039
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: I'm taking inventory. I'm I'm putting. I'm putting clean records,

1040
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: commercial records and bands come through town into places like

1041
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: Aaron's Record and Vinyl Fetish and liquors, pizza and all

1042
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: that because they didn't always take our stock or they

1043
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: might be out of stock. We didn't ship a lot

1044
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: of records in those days. I'm I'm sometimes going to

1045
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: be Okay, let's say Erin's, which was on Melrose, they're

1046
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: not stocking a record. You would go in there with

1047
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: cleans meaning there's no cutouts, doesn't show to promo, and

1048
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: you would just stick them in. Yeah. I talked to

1049
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: the doors of the store manager or owner and at

1050
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: the end these and I'd say, hey, look um, we

1051
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: have R. E. M. Coming to town. Who's that? Well,

1052
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: they have this the CP called chronic town. I don't

1053
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: see that you have this or you have one copy

1054
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: and and k Rock maybe he had just started to

1055
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: play it. Rodney might have played it or something in

1056
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: a specialty shower or Casey R. Car w is playing

1057
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 1: it where they're just they're selling out this this gig.

1058
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: I need to put five in here? Is that okay?

1059
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: Sure you took all the revenue. They took all the revenue,

1060
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: but we got we got music into people's hands because

1061
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: we got no revenue at all. It was it was

1062
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: it was seeding the market. And so it was what

1063
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: you did. You didn't do it a lot because it's

1064
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: not it's not every stainable Christinas model. But but if

1065
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: let's active comes to town, who was you know baby

1066
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: R e m you know, with Mitch Easter producing them,

1067
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: That's that's what we did. And you know, and then

1068
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: when sometimes it works, it's like the five thousand you

1069
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: know CD singles for Radiohead, Holy Ship It we got

1070
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: a hit. It's like, let's go and so and I

1071
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: did that, and I and I was I used to

1072
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: actually order all the merchandizing, get the art from the

1073
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 1: art department ordered. I learned about printing presses, I learned

1074
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: about color separations, I learned about ordering and pricing things.

1075
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: I would then get all the stuff in being the

1076
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: merchandising warehouse, roll the posters up, box up the flats,

1077
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: anything out, ship them out to the distribution people to

1078
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: where I first met a bunch of people. Their names

1079
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: were on the on the mailing list, ship them out

1080
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: all over the US. They would then order more. I

1081
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: keep the inventory. I kept all the promos closet full

1082
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: of promos of everything today who knows, who knows? And uh,

1083
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: hopefully collectible some of it, you know, I mean I

1084
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: probably had some highly collectible stuff in there. Okay, so

1085
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: how long do you do that job? And then I became,

1086
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, director of sales, director of Go Sideways for

1087
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: a second. So who else was working there other than

1088
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: Jay who sustained Yeah, Jay, and Miles obviously on the

1089
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: company and Jayson, Yeah. And Barbara Bowen was a really

1090
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: prominent figure. She was probably VP of sales. The world

1091
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: famous attack hamster Michael Plin, one of the great promotions

1092
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: stories of in the world. A woman named Kyle Heatherington

1093
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: who was also a great promotion person who left the

1094
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: business a while ago now, but she's she's lovely. A

1095
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: young guy named Steve Tipp and I started around the

1096
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: same real estate now but worked at Warner for a

1097
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, and Steve and I literally started like

1098
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: the same week or two and he went off to Warner,

1099
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: and I was always jealous. He got the great, he

1100
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 1: got the great. So now you have a job, you're

1101
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: making your three week Is there a dream? Yeah? I

1102
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: want to Well, the first once I got over the

1103
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: idea after two years that I probably wasn't going to

1104
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 1: go back and get an NBA and get a real job,

1105
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: I then was like, you know what, I like this,

1106
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: Maybe I want to run one of these companies one day.

1107
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: So my ambition pretty much solidified pretty quickly. I'd like

1108
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: to be president of a meaningful record label one day.

1109
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I had I had shots over the

1110
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: years of managing artists and doing different things with digital companies,

1111
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,720
Speaker 1: and I just I just stayed through the thick and in. Okay,

1112
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: so how long were you at I r S four

1113
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: years and then what happens next? Then I got the

1114
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: break of a career. So, um, I got a guy

1115
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: named Gilfrees and a legendary yeah, my mentor, my true mentor. Yeah,

1116
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: it was president of A and M and every so

1117
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: often he would hire someone to be his executive assistant.

1118
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: These days that would mean secretary, all sort of administrative

1119
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: work that it was actually a management trainee position. And

1120
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: so Jeff Gold, Jeff Arof et cetera, Michael Leon, some

1121
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: guys who, to me, your legendary and we're also mentors

1122
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: and friends of mine. Still they were previously in that role.

1123
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: So I snatched at it, and I got a nice

1124
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: fifty percent raise. I was almost a forty thousand a year.

1125
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: Uh then and uh and but it was I got

1126
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: to be trained by one of the great thinkers in

1127
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: our business, who was really way ahead of most people

1128
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: thinking through the business. He would work with people like

1129
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 1: Peter Drucker, the legendary you know, kind of the father

1130
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 1: of the new of the modern masters of business administration,

1131
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: um idea and a great a great advisor to many

1132
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: many titans of industry. Gil would work with him or

1133
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: he'd go think about this differently, that differently, And obviously

1134
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: Jerry Moss and Herbalpert just legendary entrepreneurs. And and I

1135
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: got to like, you know, play sidecar with Gil for

1136
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: five years. It was remarkable. Okay, how did he pick

1137
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: you out? But he Jeff Gold right, who now says

1138
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: sols memorabilia. But started in your role, became a marketing

1139
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: guy exactly. He recommended me, and I think a couple

1140
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,720
Speaker 1: other people, my cole and a couple of those people

1141
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: were supportive. Um and but I think Jeff was the

1142
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: guy that sayd hey, Gil, you should meet this kid,

1143
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: and and we headed off and and actually the beauty

1144
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: of it is his his My wife was his assistant,

1145
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: so it's all in the family. Oh, keid, Okay, how

1146
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: long were you in the position working with Gil before

1147
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: it was a romance with your wife? A couple of years.

1148
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: A couple of years. She she started after me. I

1149
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: advised him not to hire her because she didn't really

1150
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: want the job, she told me, And then she ended

1151
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: up taking the job and work. She didn't want the

1152
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: job because she was thinking she was only she's British,

1153
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: so she's Susan was thinking she'd only be in town

1154
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: for several months with her then boyfriend and uh, gets

1155
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: more compliment. Yeah, this is getting too personal. No no, no, no, no,

1156
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: it's it's a great story. Okay, Well keep going. Yeah.

1157
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: So anyway, she's working there for at least a year

1158
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: before we hit it off. And you know, and then

1159
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: and then it moved very quickly, and within like a

1160
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: year and a half we were married. Okay, when you

1161
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: start to hit off, is the boyfriend still in the picture? Briefly?

1162
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 1: And how did it end? How did he get out

1163
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: of the picture? I think she told him it was okay,

1164
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: wasn't your wasn't on your shoulders? Well, only that I'm irresistible,

1165
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: but you know, other than that, you didn't have to

1166
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: stand up. He was a great guy. So I felt,

1167
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 1: I honestly felt bally about them. Okay, so you were there?

1168
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: Did Jeff Gold? Was he there? And that assist Jeff

1169
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: left shortly there after I got into it. But did

1170
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: he do it for five years? I don't know how

1171
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: long he did the assistant position, but he was. He

1172
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: was a proper VP of creative and other things by

1173
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: the time I got there. Yeah, so you worked for

1174
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: your five years, which brings us to what year? Okay,

1175
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: and A and M was sold to PolyGram that's right,

1176
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: and Gil left and went on his merry way to

1177
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: do his great the great things that he did then

1178
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: and and they made me head of marketing VP of

1179
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: Marketing and Jake so, uh, this was before Alcafaro took over. Yeah,

1180
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: I was right at the same time. So Al got

1181
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: the he at that time, I think either got the

1182
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 1: presidency or GM. I can't remember. He became the leader

1183
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: of the company day to day. I got the VP

1184
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: of marketing. Gar garen Od came in a few years

1185
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: before that to be head of artist development. And Jim

1186
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: Jim was a really good friend of mine. Used to

1187
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: play basketball every Saturday, you know, at his house one

1188
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: on one and and he and Michael Leon and I Michael,

1189
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: myself and Michael Leon and there was somebody else involved,

1190
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,919
Speaker 1: maybe Wayne Isaac, I can't remember. We recruited Jim into

1191
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: the company and uh he did very well. Okay, so

1192
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: he was artist development and you were marketing. Yeah, that's right.

1193
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: And how long were you there in that position? Only

1194
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: for about a year and then when he got poached

1195
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: by I got poached by Capital. And how did you

1196
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: decide to leave the family? Uh? It was it wasn't Uh,

1197
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: it was it was time, you know. I didn't think

1198
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: that the new leadership was really the kind of direction

1199
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: that I wanted to go, and I could feel the

1200
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: company changing. And then I met hell Milgram at a

1201
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: dinner party who would come from elector to run Capital,

1202
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: that's right. And he was wonderful and you know, and

1203
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: then he offered me this great opportunity to run the

1204
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: international department at Capital, and I snatched it. It was great.

1205
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know you ran an international first. I mean,

1206
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: that's back then, especially you flew all over the world.

1207
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: I flew two air miles a year for three years.

1208
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: Would your wife say? She said, come home. I got

1209
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: two little kids and I need you home. But are

1210
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: you kidding? She was the most supportive person in the world.

1211
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: And obviously she had to be, you know, I mean

1212
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: because because it was just tough, because there were no

1213
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: emails then, no cell phones. It was all landlines and

1214
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: texts and landlines and faxes, you know, And and it

1215
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: was tough. And after three years, Hail threw me a

1216
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: lifeline and pulled me back into run marketing at Capital. Okay, Now,

1217
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: ultimately Charles Coppleman and his team took over. Where did

1218
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: that leave you? Yeah, well, so Charles came in, um

1219
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: changed changed leadership, brought in Gary gersh And, and that

1220
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: was a very different perspective. And Gary's super talented guy.

1221
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: He was riding the Nirvan Awave at that point in

1222
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 1: County Crows and whatever. So he came in and Gary

1223
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: had a very different approach to Hale. But I got

1224
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,479
Speaker 1: along fine with Gary. Well what was just for those

1225
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: who may not know, what was the difference in approach? Um,

1226
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: you know Gary, Gary was more aggressive. He was more

1227
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: opinionated about day to day. Um. Not to say that

1228
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: Hall didn't have an opinion or a point of view.

1229
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: He was an A and R guy and not a

1230
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: marketing guy. Um. He was more He was more about

1231
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: the band's culture, if you will, and all that, and

1232
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 1: and so I think I got the benefit of both

1233
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: of their best you know things. And after a couple

1234
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: of years uh with Gary, I got approached by by

1235
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: by Sony and and uh about about a little about

1236
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: a year and a half with Gary, I got approached

1237
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: by by Columbia Records, by Don einer Um. And it

1238
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: was a strange time because the north Ridge earthquake had

1239
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: just happened. Yeah, I still haven't recovered him now and

1240
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: so and and and it scared the hell out of us.

1241
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: And in studios in Sherman in Sherman Oaks, which was

1242
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: the second most damage that code and so and we

1243
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: got a hundred thousand dollars with a damage in at

1244
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: our house. That was terrifying. We had two little kids,

1245
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: and uh, and then and so we were thinking about

1246
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: do we want to live here anymore? And and Donnie

1247
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: came in like maybe seven or eight months later and

1248
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: offered me. I remember this is Columbia Records at the time,

1249
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: which was mighty, you know, and Big Red and its

1250
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: glory and Donnie is as the fearless Commander probably almost

1251
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: like and um, so you know, I I I thought

1252
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: long and hard about it, but it seemed like it

1253
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: was the time to go. You know. Our kids were

1254
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: five and seven and actually at that point six and four.

1255
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: And then so I had to work another year at

1256
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: at Capitol and kind of work off my contract and

1257
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: then and then Gary was generous enough to let me

1258
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: out a bit early and I stepped into the war

1259
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: zone with Columbia records. What was that like? It was

1260
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 1: it was a major cultural uh like wake up call.

1261
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: Um was in l A. It wasn't uh, it wasn't Capital.

1262
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: It was Big Red and Donnie Einner was you know this,

1263
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: you know, the Sergeant Rock or the Demand or General

1264
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: Patton exactly whatever. I want to say, and a bunch

1265
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: of guys in suits and who were number one or one.

1266
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: They weren't quite number one when I arrived. They'd fallen

1267
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: off for a year or two. And I think Donnie

1268
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: was under a lot of pressure. And and so is

1269
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: culture shock for me. Initially, it took me a good

1270
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: year to figure it out and to figure out how

1271
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: I fit in. And I didn't fit in. I was

1272
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of of of you know, of an

1273
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: awkward duck there within that company, of an ugly swan

1274
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: or whatever, ugly duckling. And and but I really saw though,

1275
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: an incredible machine and it's and it was exactly what

1276
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: I needed at the right time. And Donnie was a

1277
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: great leader. Now to what degree where you say you

1278
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: didn't fit in? How much did you feel the pressure?

1279
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,479
Speaker 1: Tremendously tremendous pressure. Remember I was thirty six years old,

1280
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, with a wife and two kids, and I

1281
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: waited a year to get there, and it was like,

1282
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: holy shit, this is hardcore. And Donnie tested me, you know,

1283
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 1: and what would that look like. He's just a he's

1284
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: just a fear leader, a hard driver, an emotional guy,

1285
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, UM intimidating, um inspiring, you know, uh, one

1286
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: of the great recordmen. Uh, you know of all time,

1287
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: and and and and you know, look at the track

1288
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: record you know, as a label guy, you know, he

1289
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: was incredible, you know, and he was he was polarizing.

1290
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: You know, it could be very difficult, but uh, you know,

1291
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: I have great respect for for him as a as

1292
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: a strategist and an executing person who could execute. You're

1293
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: you're there when he gets blown out? No, I am

1294
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: later on. Yeah, So did you see that coming? You know, yes,

1295
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: and no, I mean, I mean I saw it coming

1296
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: because I had I was in a much more privileged

1297
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: position than many years later in two thousand five maybe.

1298
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: So what was your obviously you weren't insider, but what

1299
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: was your actual title? Believe I was GM of of

1300
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: j R st R, j R R C. I can't

1301
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: remember exactly. And and it was recently, you know, the

1302
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: companies were recently merged. There were a lot of politics

1303
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: going on. You kind of didn't know which side it

1304
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: was to come down on, and it came down on

1305
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: the BMG side of it. And Donnie was a casualty

1306
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: and but I still kind of couldn't believe it. I

1307
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: was like God, that guy was like, you know, okay,

1308
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: so you worked with Clive? What was that like? Cli?

1309
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: Clive was amazing and is amazing. Um, and I have

1310
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: a lot of love, yeah, um, and a taskmaster and

1311
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: an absolute perfectionist. And nobody works harder, nobody's more strategic,

1312
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: and he was. He would manage the minutia down to

1313
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: the font on the sticker on the album cover, you know.

1314
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: And and at the same time, I have the big

1315
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: picture in the vision to both create stars and resurrect superstars,

1316
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 1: you know. And and his his his and he's insatiable.

1317
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: You know, he's just incredible. So how did you jump

1318
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: to Clive Terrista? I was recruited, you know, this is

1319
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: when it was Jake, this is when it was now

1320
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: before it turned into correct So I I was it

1321
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: aris to about six months, but as a Columbia Records

1322
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: company into my deal. Um, I was approached by by

1323
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: Arista at breakfast with Clive. And there's a guy named

1324
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: Charles Goldstock who's Clive's right hand guy. We need to

1325
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: knew each other. We work together. Charles gold Stuck today

1326
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: he's doing Hitco with l A. Read so and and

1327
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: and so. Charles and I knew each other from Capital.

1328
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: He was a CFO there and so um, and it

1329
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: was time for me to move. I you know, I

1330
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: felt like but they offered me a much better job,

1331
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,479
Speaker 1: you know, a bigger job, global head of marketing e VP,

1332
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: all this stuff, lots more dough, thank you very much.

1333
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: And it was a no brainer. Um, And it was

1334
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: time for me to go. And I think culturally it

1335
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: was a much better fit for me. What did Donny

1336
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: say when you wanted to go, You're making a mistake, said,

1337
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, this may be and and this may be

1338
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: the last job you tall, having the record business and

1339
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: all that. But but at the same time he said, like,

1340
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: what can I say? You're gonna go work for Clive?

1341
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: I love because that's right. So you know he was

1342
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: he was doing his best to to who convince me

1343
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 1: not to go? And then when it's it's apart, you

1344
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: go with Claive. I do. And but one thing about Live,

1345
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: it's basically his way. What was it like working that way?

1346
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: I mean, when you came up with an idea and

1347
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: he wasn't so warm about it. I put a lot

1348
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: of winds on the board with Clive, you know, but

1349
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: because I understood how he how he thinks, and I

1350
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: and and and at that point I wasn't I wasn't

1351
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: as much of a kid anymore. I had my own confidence.

1352
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: And that's what Columbia Records gave me, the belief in

1353
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: what I could do. And that's what Donnie wanted. That's

1354
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: why he would test you. He would test you to

1355
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: make sure you really believed that what you were doing

1356
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: was going to work, and then you had to go

1357
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: out and do it. That was and that was proof

1358
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: of concept, making me feel like, you know, I am

1359
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: I am maybe as smart as I think I am sometimes,

1360
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: you know. And and he didn't torture you if you fail.

1361
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 1: You know, he would tease you or goof on you

1362
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: or whatever, but he would always encourage people that to

1363
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: to go for it. And and but he you know,

1364
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: he he'd guide you along. He was great. Clive was

1365
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 1: a different version of that, you know. And Clive, You're right,

1366
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: Clive had the vision and and got a lot of

1367
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: the credit and and and deserves you know it as well.

1368
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: But you know, I like to think I helped Clive win.

1369
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: Clive takes a lot of credit. We'll leave it at that.

1370
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: Certainly can't do without the team. So then how do

1371
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: you end up being a you know, the merger happens,

1372
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: how do you end up on top? Uh? Which merger

1373
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 1: the Sony b MG merger? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, so there's

1374
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: a there's a lot of different Okay, we you're talking

1375
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 1: about just I can't eve remember did j we merge

1376
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: with the Arista before? What happened Arista? Arista, l A

1377
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 1: read came in, lives out, We start j Records, and

1378
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: you have a lot of success. We have a lot

1379
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: of Thank god, we have a lot of success. Um

1380
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: we get Arista back A couple of years later, l

1381
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: A is losing a lot of money or aristas losing

1382
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: a lot of money, but he's got hits, you know,

1383
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: so that that comes back into the fold, you know.

1384
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 1: Then Jive is bought by BMG. Then Clive and Charles

1385
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: have oversight of BMG North America, which includes Jive, which

1386
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: Barry runs autonomously, but he reports into these guys. Um

1387
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: So in the meantime, I'm Arista, R C A and

1388
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: J become one become our CIA Records. Essentially R C A,

1389
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 1: J R. Cier aris to J and Richard Sanders for

1390
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: a while is running R c A. I'm running I'm

1391
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: running Aris to j and then Richard. Then the merger happens.

1392
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 1: Richard goes off and runs international for Sony b MG.

1393
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: I then become GM of of of r C A

1394
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: J Arista. So you're the GM. How do you fly

1395
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: up to the next level? So long? So spin it

1396
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,879
Speaker 1: up again. In two thousand and eight, Charles leaves the company,

1397
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 1: Clive becomes Chief Creative Officer of Sony. Barry Wise takes over.

1398
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 1: He takes over m r C A Jive. I'm GM

1399
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 1: kind of. He and I hit it off great. I'm

1400
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: a big fan of Barry. He's quirky and smart, but

1401
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: he's a consummate record guy, very bright, very driven. Three

1402
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: years later, Barry ops to go to university. Um Doug

1403
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,480
Speaker 1: comes in. At the same time, there's a change in management.

1404
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: Doug Morris comes in. He uh looks at Peter and

1405
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 1: me and he says, Okay, you guys run it, but

1406
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm taking r C A and I'm retiring JIVE and

1407
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm making it just our c A. And so he

1408
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: gives us our shot. And I'm very grateful for Doug

1409
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: to give us our shot, because as he would he

1410
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: said with a little glint in his eye. About two

1411
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: years later, he goes like, you know, I didn't know

1412
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: you guys are gonna make so And by the way,

1413
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 1: maybe we didn't either, but but through through his support

1414
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 1: and and and and believe we we believe in ourselves.

1415
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: But going back to Donnie's comment, when you go to

1416
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: Arrow sat, so this is gonna be your last job

1417
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: in the record business. For a lot of people, they

1418
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: make moves and it is their last job. We ever

1419
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: worried that, Hey, you know, there's gonna be a game

1420
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: of musical chairs and I'm gonna be left out if

1421
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: I if I'm honest, I would say I always believe

1422
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:43,719
Speaker 1: in myself and I didn't think that was gonna happen.

1423
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 1: But but if I'm digging down a little deeply, you

1424
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: are there. I'm you know, insecurity drives all of us.

1425
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: So I wasn't going to be that guy. Okay, So

1426
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: now we're in the present. Obviously you live through the

1427
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 1: knaps Ger era. Uh sales went down and then of

1428
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:01,799
Speaker 1: course in the last couple of years results of streaming,

1429
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: they've gone back up. So it used to be the

1430
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: record company was king, but now a lot of record

1431
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: companies if they buy any tickets for the show, very few.

1432
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: They're certainly not buying out clubs like there used to be.

1433
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: So where does the record company fit in the ecosystem today? Yeah, um,

1434
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the billion dollar question. But but obviously

1435
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: the record company is there for a lot of things

1436
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: that's always been there for, which is to to to

1437
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: for scale global scale, To work radio, which is very

1438
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 1: difficult to work if you're not in there. To fund

1439
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: on a on a big scale, big ideas and small ideas.

1440
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 1: To have expertise, to source to source talent both on

1441
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 1: the A and R side, i e. Producers, engineers, mixers, masters, etcetera.

1442
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: Video directors, art directors, photographers, To be able to uh

1443
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 1: sit there and and and sync music on on on

1444
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: scale at scale, To be there every day with brands

1445
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 1: where when we come in with hundreds of acts in

1446
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 1: some cases at major labels, but to know who to

1447
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: pitch and how to pitch it. When one pitch comes

1448
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 1: in for one act, you know doesn't work for that act,

1449
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 1: but we spend it into another act. You know, so,

1450
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: and and and and you know and and just as

1451
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: a sounding board, you know, as a sounding board is

1452
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: part of the team of experts, because the one thing

1453
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:30,440
Speaker 1: I'll say about major labels is we're there with everybody

1454
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 1: every day through the entire food chain, for better, for worse,

1455
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, and hopefully for the better. And so you

1456
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 1: you you gain access, you gain global access. You have

1457
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: an affiliation, you have people that are accountable to you.

1458
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: As an artist, we're accountable to the artist. Um, you

1459
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:49,840
Speaker 1: have a royalty department, you have business affairs, helps sort

1460
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: you through. Then with an independent label, you want to

1461
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: talk about not getting paid forgetting I mean not getting

1462
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: paid and some of the Look, I'm a big believer

1463
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: in independent labels, but you know, they're running a shoestring,

1464
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: most of them. It's really tough. And so just so

1465
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: in order to stay alive, they've got to have cash flow,

1466
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: and we have constant cash flow. They don't always have

1467
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: constant cash flow, right never well the old days distribution

1468
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 1: there you couldn't get paid if you were an indie,

1469
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: that's right. But okay, so I'm an act. Tell me

1470
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: about the relationships with the streaming services. Let's start with

1471
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: the paige services, Amazon, Spotify, Apple primarily. How does a

1472
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 1: major label interface with those that's a that's a big question.

1473
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 1: But um, your primary role is to work with the

1474
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 1: the the DSPs, the digital service providers to work on

1475
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 1: playlisting and making sure you're talking to the right editor

1476
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:44,680
Speaker 1: with the right playlist at the right time for the

1477
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: right song for the right artists, you know. But it's

1478
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 1: much bigger than that. They have a big platform, they

1479
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 1: have marketing money, they do out of home advertising, they

1480
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: have in some cases radio shows, uh, podcasts and things

1481
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: and so forth. Uh, they if and and they're not

1482
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: created equal. Some are affiliated with hardware Apple. Some are

1483
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: affiliated with with digital retail Amazon and have a tremendous

1484
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 1: program called Prime. And I think fourteen markets around the

1485
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: world might be more. You have You've got Spotify, which

1486
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: is a wonderful you know service both at supported and

1487
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: premium that is in a hundred and seventy countries around

1488
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: the world, you know, something like that. It provides a

1489
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,799
Speaker 1: lot of access around the world. So they're all different.

1490
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: And and that's again if you're one person or one

1491
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: artist to one manager trying to wrap your head around

1492
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: that and trying to get access. And they have boots

1493
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: on the ground everywhere, but so do we, you know,

1494
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: And and so you're you're you're just dealing with it

1495
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: all the time, and you're constantly in a constant, always

1496
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: on conversation about what to do. Okay, let's just narrowly

1497
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: done to one Spotify hypothetical. Yeah, do you pick and

1498
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: choose what you're promoting or do you believe there's a

1499
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:59,759
Speaker 1: playlist for everything? I believe there's a playlist for everything. Actually,

1500
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: So you have your priorities and your goal there used

1501
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: to get it on the genre playlist. Let's you know

1502
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,680
Speaker 1: you have what would you ask for? Well, genre is

1503
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: the easiest way to describe it, but someone's lifestyle, some vibe.

1504
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: Because that's the sort of trick with what I called

1505
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: the playlist generation. You know, many of us do. It's

1506
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 1: not they're not they're not beholding two genre. They may

1507
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 1: they may go for R and B, or go for

1508
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: hip hop, or go for pop or rock or whatever.

1509
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: But they listen to kind of everything because there's a

1510
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: lot of sharing going on out there, especially the younger generation,

1511
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 1: Millennials and younger they're used to their own mix tapes,

1512
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: their own they send things, you know, they do their

1513
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: own U. G. C. Stuff. They have playlists that you know,

1514
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,520
Speaker 1: that's right in different platforms that they and their SoundCloud,

1515
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 1: and there's this, and there's mixed you know, my mix

1516
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: tapes and all this stuff. So there's a lot of

1517
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: different ways that they could access music. And when you

1518
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 1: come back to Spotify, you know, Spotify has you playlisting

1519
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 1: ability for people to share and its social and it

1520
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 1: does a good job of that. And and so you know,

1521
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: there's the idea that you know, we look at collection

1522
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: i e. People collecting songs off of a playlisted uh

1523
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: Spotify list and and and the truth is is that

1524
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:20,759
Speaker 1: something like eight of plays are off playlists and sorry,

1525
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:26,679
Speaker 1: are off off bespoke playlist saves playlists not off playlists

1526
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 1: generated boyl the DSP And do you have any uh

1527
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 1: knowledge how many of those are saved because the person

1528
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: listened on a playlist or they just cherry picked and

1529
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: created their own playlists. I know there's data there. I

1530
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,719
Speaker 1: don't I can't spit it out at the moment, but

1531
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: but I'm sure it's a combination of both. But I

1532
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: think a lot of it is you sharing your playlist

1533
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:49,600
Speaker 1: with me and me going, oh, I like those. I

1534
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: didn't know those three records that Bob put on here,

1535
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: I like those or I hadn't thought of that from

1536
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: my list, and it fits into this playlist for my

1537
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: dinner party, or this play is from my drive, or

1538
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 1: this playlist for my workout. Okay, so that's almost impossible

1539
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: to penetrate, right, Well, yes and no. It goes back

1540
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: to knowing your consumer and knowing where to find them,

1541
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: and and having the experience and the ability to reach

1542
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:18,520
Speaker 1: them and communicate them. To get them to listen English

1543
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,560
Speaker 1: in English, you have to be a good marketer. So

1544
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: let's just be very narrow. If you want to reach

1545
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: them on Spotify and they're basically trading playlists as opposed

1546
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 1: to going through the genre playlists, you won't just reach

1547
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 1: them on Spotify. That's my point. You read them, You

1548
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: reach them through lifestyle, you reach them through social, you

1549
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: reach them through touring, You'll reach them through other you know,

1550
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: levers and odd platforms. So so nobody exists in a

1551
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: silo or not. And okay, but let's just go back

1552
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,600
Speaker 1: to your Now you're you're pitching Spotify. Let's just say

1553
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,799
Speaker 1: they put something on a playlist. You're obvious, they're obviously

1554
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: generating data which is useful to you, But how long

1555
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: will they stay committed? Before they not working for us.

1556
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 1: It varies from playlists to playlists. If we're just talking that,

1557
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, you can have today's top hits. I believe

1558
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 1: the average time is eight to ten weeks. You know,

1559
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: you have other playlists like Pop Rising, which cycle through

1560
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 1: more quickly. You have Wrapped Caviare, You've got It's you know,

1561
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 1: It's lit. You know, they all have a different sort

1562
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: of um sort of mission in terms of what they're

1563
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish. But they they're data driven. They'll look

1564
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 1: at some yes there's some curation evolved and the human

1565
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: beings involved, but they're also very data driven. So let's

1566
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 1: see there's burn. You know, they'll see there's the playlist,

1567
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: things dropping and as you'll see it drop down there.

1568
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,599
Speaker 1: But I say, let's say you you're something you're excited

1569
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 1: about they put it on these playlists, and they come

1570
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 1: to you one day said, you know, we're not going

1571
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 1: to leave it on the playlist anymore, and you're still

1572
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 1: excited about it. How do you deal with that? Well,

1573
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: then you could go to a different playlists. Maybe you

1574
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,759
Speaker 1: were wrong, maybe it isn't that audience. Maybe you thought

1575
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 1: it was Wrapped Caviare. But it's really something else or

1576
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing. And and so you

1577
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: might just pivot and go somewhere else, or uh, it's

1578
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: just not a very good record. So, uh, since you're

1579
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: in the belly of the beast, what is the most

1580
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 1: useful data that you've ever I'm done about specific kind

1581
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 1: of data that you've gotten from streaming services that is

1582
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 1: either very useful or surprising. Other than people listening primarily

1583
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: to their safe playlists. Yeah, there's a there's not I mean,

1584
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: there's a number where do I start? But but you know,

1585
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: collection people putting stuff on their plus skip rates are

1586
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 1: that what are they skipping? When they're skipping? Is skipping

1587
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the song or right at the

1588
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: hook or a little bit later in the song? Um?

1589
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: What sort of click rates? You know? UM? What kind

1590
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: of likes people have? You have a sentiment you know, um,

1591
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: data about how people feel, you know, And so you

1592
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: try to sift through those words and and create because

1593
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: it's an emotional products, so you and and and that's

1594
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 1: particularly helpful on the first blush of something, whether you're

1595
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 1: just putting out something new from Dualipa or whether you're

1596
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 1: putting out something new from a fairly unknown act, but

1597
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 1: you find you have a very we have a sat

1598
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: cave Town. It's a sort of a of a pop

1599
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 1: alt kid from the UK and very very emo and

1600
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: very bedroom pop, but very connected. And he's just sold

1601
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: out venue here, the Fonda, you know, I mean, he's

1602
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: going doing very very well. And we don't we haven't

1603
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 1: had a new album out in a while. In fact,

1604
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: his previous one was Indie. So we have an album

1605
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: coming out and I think believe it's February. So he

1606
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 1: played there and and you know, you watch what's going

1607
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 1: on there and and and and so you know you're

1608
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 1: looking at the connectivity that that that that happens off

1609
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: of that emotion. You know, it's so emotional, that product.

1610
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 1: But you'll look at the sentiment meter around that and

1611
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 1: you'll say, okay, that's super passionate. That's like a lot

1612
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 1: of love there, you know, and significant streams in the

1613
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 1: twenty five million range, but not the million range. But

1614
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 1: we're betting long on Cave Town. We're betting long on

1615
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:01,600
Speaker 1: Robin has the R. So we'll look at that or

1616
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 1: Hobo Johnson, you know, another act out of Sacramento. Frank

1617
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 1: his name is and he's he's got the same thing.

1618
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 1: You know, you'll you'll see the passion behind what's going

1619
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: on there and then and then you morphounted off the

1620
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: service and see that he's selling out theaters and doing

1621
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 1: eleven bucks ahead and merged. Okay, there's a lot of

1622
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: passion behind them. Have we hit radio yet with a

1623
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: song that's gone all the way? Not yet, but they're

1624
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: they're they're aware, they're paying attention. Okay, I saw you

1625
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: at the Rufous Do Soul uh show where they sold

1626
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 1: out the l A State Historical Park neighborhood of fifteen thousand. Uh.

1627
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: They have not have put out a record under your management?

1628
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: What's the plan for something like that? They have put

1629
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: out a record, they had what they had now they

1630
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: had last year and um and Solace is their first

1631
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 1: album with with the label. Came out more or less

1632
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: right when I arrived, like four or five months later. Um.

1633
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,680
Speaker 1: But they're one of my favorite acts around period. I

1634
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: just think they're phenomenal and they're they're building themselves into

1635
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 1: a stadium act with their with their live show, and

1636
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 1: so you know, the plan for them is is to

1637
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 1: tournament one of the biggest acts in the world you know, uh,

1638
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: they made they made sort of a they made Solace

1639
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 1: was was a was sort of a very personal album.

1640
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: It was a little bit of a down mood. It

1641
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: streamed fairly well, it hasn't exploded. I don't believe we've

1642
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 1: really reached on on on the record label side of things,

1643
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: a new audience, um, but we really solidify the audience.

1644
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 1: But live, it's amazing what's going on. It was actually

1645
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: twenty one thousand people. It was their biggest show ever ever.

1646
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 1: And they're doing Ali Pally in the UK this week

1647
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: which is ten thousand plus. They just come off here

1648
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: of doing two Red Rocks at seven thousand plus, so

1649
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 1: they're massive in Australia where they're truly truly stars. Um there.

1650
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 1: The plan is for them to get in the studio

1651
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 1: and make a new record that maybe is a bit

1652
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 1: more commercially leaning, but you know they're going to make

1653
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 1: the music they want to make. Okay, So would you

1654
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: give them input? Say this is a hit not a

1655
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,600
Speaker 1: hitter on want my hit? Yeah, we're we're what we

1656
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 1: always want to hit, right. I'm not when you say, hey,

1657
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: I don't hear it hit, but you know you hits

1658
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:00,560
Speaker 1: hit Sir, you can't really just manufacture said there's a

1659
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 1: magic to it. You can there there are certain writers

1660
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 1: and producers that have formulas that they apply and and

1661
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 1: they work from time to time. But um, for an

1662
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 1: act that's that's self contained, like Rufus their proper old

1663
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 1: school band in that way, they they've been on album cycles,

1664
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: were just like, we we need more product from them

1665
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: to come out when they're doing a great job. It's

1666
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: early days still for us in that in that kind

1667
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 1: of arc of their career, but we need more product

1668
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 1: from them, more music, more connectivity, and they're doing a

1669
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 1: tremendous job touring. But then we need to keep that

1670
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,719
Speaker 1: virtuous cycle going. And and but yeah, you know they'll

1671
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,320
Speaker 1: they'll go into the studio and and maybe they're in

1672
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:36,679
Speaker 1: a brighter mood than they were on Solace because usually

1673
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 1: hits are pretty happy, you know, even if their breakup hits,

1674
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: they have a brightness to them. Um, And we'll see

1675
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: what happens. But I'm not I don't want to put

1676
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: any undue pressure on them because I don't think that

1677
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: it's fair and I think that what's going to happen

1678
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 1: with them is the market is more likely to come

1679
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 1: around to them than them coming around to the market,

1680
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 1: and those are always the best. Longvity. Okay, to what

1681
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: degree we talked about socials, you ever have an actually

1682
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 1: don't want to make a deal. I mean everyone picking

1683
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 1: and choosing. But someone say, like the old days, hey

1684
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 1: I my credibility. I don't wanna tie up with any

1685
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: brands or anything. Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean I mean

1686
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: less and less it doesn't happen. It's more, I don't

1687
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:13,640
Speaker 1: want to do that sort of brand. I want to

1688
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 1: do the cool brand, whatever they whatever they think is

1689
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,639
Speaker 1: appropriate for them. And we're fully supportive that. We never

1690
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:21,599
Speaker 1: make anybody doing it. We can't make anybody doing Okay. Now,

1691
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: Scott Cohn is a friend of mine. He works in

1692
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,599
Speaker 1: your company, I don't know, chief technical officer or something,

1693
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: and he was telling about this new data plan and

1694
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: Zach with Scooter was going on with me about that.

1695
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 1: Warner has a new way of looking at acts, a

1696
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:39,599
Speaker 1: new way of collecting data such that you literally know

1697
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,840
Speaker 1: who every fan is of an act and you will

1698
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 1: monetize that relationship. I'd like to see. It sounds great,

1699
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: not something you're employing. Well, I'm aware of of what

1700
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,720
Speaker 1: you're talking about. It's in beta. It's in beta right

1701
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 1: now and I'm looking forward to and when we have

1702
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: there's there's there's an artist dashboard we have that we

1703
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 1: share with artists. That's new and it's really terrific if

1704
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: that's what he's talking about. And now he's talking about

1705
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: something you know different as I say, you know, he's

1706
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 1: a blue Sky guy anyway. So but we have the answers.

1707
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 1: So just before we wrap it up, anything you need

1708
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: to say that we haven't covered, because I tear about

1709
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 1: the gear here, I'm wonderful. Um, yeah, we've covered a lot.

1710
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 1: We've covered a lot, but I want to make sure

1711
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: you get your say of anything. And I'm very grateful

1712
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: for the time in the platform. Okay, but as I say,

1713
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, you're sitting in a different perspective from me,

1714
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 1: so maybe there's something I don't see. Yeah, I just

1715
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: think that, you know, from from where I sit, there's

1716
01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people that a lot of people that

1717
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 1: have an agenda about undermining what labels do when major

1718
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: labels do, and and I think some of them can

1719
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: substantiate it to a point, but most of them can't.

1720
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:55,360
Speaker 1: And that labels so but but not notwithstanding that, the

1721
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: criticisms constructively are taken constructively, and we have to morph,

1722
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: and we have to change our skill set and retrain

1723
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: our people and get new ideas and innovation, and people

1724
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 1: like Scott will help with that. And we we are

1725
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,679
Speaker 1: working very hard at Warner and Warner Music Group of

1726
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 1: you know, creating a different sort of channels so that

1727
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 1: that dashboard or that information you know, does come to

1728
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: light and is shareable with our acts so that we

1729
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: provide a real added value down the line. And I

1730
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:27,720
Speaker 1: think what we provide now is more than adequate, but

1731
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 1: we we need to get better. We need to get

1732
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 1: more integrated with the agenda, not just of the artists,

1733
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 1: but with our partners and what we're doing, and more

1734
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:38,839
Speaker 1: aligned so that so that our place at the table

1735
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: is solid. It's explainable, it's transparent, it's understandable, and more

1736
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 1: than anything, it's we can implement it. You know that

1737
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 1: we gets a couple of questions. You now, the unlike

1738
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 1: in the physical days, these streaming companies pay more frequently.

1739
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,200
Speaker 1: So if I'm an act, let's just as sue, for

1740
01:25:58,240 --> 01:26:00,639
Speaker 1: the sake of discussion, I'm in the black, how often

1741
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: would I get paid the same six month period or

1742
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 1: would be moment, it's it's it's six months. Yeah, okay,

1743
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 1: so let's just go one step further. You talk about

1744
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,640
Speaker 1: the major label. I am old enough to remember the

1745
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:14,800
Speaker 1: days where if you weren't on the major label, you

1746
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,639
Speaker 1: essentially weren't a player. First, you probably couldn't afford to record,

1747
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 1: but you couldn't get on the radio. And if you've

1748
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 1: got me in the famous stories Bobby Womack and Beverly

1749
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: Glenn Records, he had a platinum out and put the

1750
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,480
Speaker 1: company out of business because they literally couldn't collect the money.

1751
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:33,480
Speaker 1: So we know there's more music being made than ever before. Okay,

1752
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: granted most of it is literally not listened to. If

1753
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: you go on Spotify, there are millions of tracks that

1754
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 1: have never been listened to. So this vastness where the

1755
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 1: major labels there used to be six controlled everything. What

1756
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 1: do we say to the There are certain genres, like

1757
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: we talked about plesbur that traditionally the major labels are

1758
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 1: not looking for, But there was a time they put

1759
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 1: out everything. They were the only avenue. Is there a

1760
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about all all these other scenes

1761
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,880
Speaker 1: that the major labels are presently not in um They

1762
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 1: have they have relevance and vibrancy, and there's and now

1763
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:13,520
Speaker 1: there's very little friction once you're a subscriber to Discovery

1764
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 1: and Too and to Access and they have to battle

1765
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 1: their way to whatever relevancy they do because they fight

1766
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: at a different weight class. But everybody there's a champion

1767
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 1: of every weight class. You know, it just depends on

1768
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,440
Speaker 1: which weight class you're in. Okay, so you would anticipate

1769
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: the main We have none such by the way. Okay.

1770
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: So it's an affiliated label to Warn't Warner Records, and

1771
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: they have wonderful acts. You know that Vagabond is just

1772
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:40,120
Speaker 1: as a record that came out this week. I urge

1773
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 1: everybody to listen to it. She's terrific. You know. You

1774
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: have Yola, you know, which was produced by one of

1775
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 1: the Black Keys. She's terrific. You know. At the same time,

1776
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 1: you have David Byrne on the label, you know who

1777
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 1: we don't have to explain David Byrne, Dewey, he's a

1778
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 1: wonderful you know, all timers. Let's just stay with none

1779
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: such So none such reports to you, yeah, okay, So

1780
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 1: certainly if most revenue is from streaming these days, we

1781
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 1: know those records tend to have presently very little streams.

1782
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: It's challenging, I would think would be very challenging to

1783
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 1: make money on those records. So look, if you're looking

1784
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 1: at traditionally what none such did, Yes, they're in they're

1785
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: in a in a position where they're more fitting and

1786
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 1: pivoting into the streaming area. So that's and at the

1787
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: top of the agenda for the management they're having. Said that,

1788
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 1: though we touched on Suburban, who I think five years

1789
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: ago would have been just a rock act, you know

1790
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 1: that was put into a certain basket. But because of

1791
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 1: what he's brought to the market, there's now a streaming

1792
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:39,839
Speaker 1: story behind Suburban, and now radio is going to follow

1793
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 1: that or the traditional sort of outlets to go if

1794
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 1: none such none such hat. That's why I mentioned Yolo

1795
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: because I think where I mentioned Vagabond, none such as

1796
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 1: morphing into that area. And that's down to A and

1797
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 1: R and marketing and understanding that that whilst some of

1798
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:58,200
Speaker 1: their artists may struggle to stream, there's a new generation

1799
01:28:58,240 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 1: of artists that might not be that different from what

1800
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 1: those artists are, but they're of a certain generation. They

1801
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 1: might be digital natives who know how to communicate differently

1802
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: or more efficiently, and their marketing and their promotion has

1803
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 1: to be on point with how the market moves today,

1804
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: and certainly all the genres you know, the audiences will

1805
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 1: ultimately move to streaming. Hip hop was there first, but

1806
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 1: you know countries, you know better streaming than average country

1807
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:24,880
Speaker 1: is better than rock. Okay, you've been listening to a

1808
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 1: comprehensive viewpoint of what is going on in with the

1809
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 1: big cahuna the major label world. Someone who's literally worked

1810
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 1: at all major labeled groups by today's standards. And Tom,

1811
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here, Bob. It's been my pleasure.

1812
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 1: So once again, that's Tom Courson, co Chairman, CEO O

1813
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 1: of Warner Music. Until next time. This is Bob website