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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you. Author, engineer,

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Speaker 2: singer and explorer Mike Kozlowski has written a range of

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Speaker 2: books and stories and the horror fiction and paranormal investigation genre.

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Speaker 2: One of his books is called American Ghost Stories. Tonight

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Speaker 2: we'll be talking about the legendary creature known as Bigfoot

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Speaker 2: with his work Bigfoot Sightings, True Tales from Across America

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Speaker 2: that he co wrote with the Coast guest the late

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Speaker 2: Jim Willis. Mike, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Hey George, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate it a fellow Detroiter like me. I was born there.

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Speaker 2: How about you, Yes, sir, born and raised, still going

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Speaker 2: go Lions this year? Huh?

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Speaker 3: Yes, sir?

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Speaker 2: How did you get involved with Bigfoot Sightings with your background?

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Speaker 4: So, I've always been a horror fan and eventually I

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Speaker 4: moved into writing, and I really mostly worked with horror fiction,

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Speaker 4: you know, as a Stephen King kids as many in

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Speaker 4: my gen X generation are. You know, within those stories

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Speaker 4: obviously ghosts, demons, psychics, monsters, all that supernatural. You know,

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Speaker 4: it was featured. And I was always a curious sort

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Speaker 4: as a kid, especially you know, especially with the strange

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Speaker 4: and the fantastic and mythology mysteries, and loved Ripley's Believe

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Speaker 4: It or Not. So it was kind of a natural progression,

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Speaker 4: I think eventually to end up in the paranormal unexplained field.

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Speaker 2: How did you team up with our friend Jim Willis

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Speaker 2: God rest his soul?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sadly. Sadly Jim passed, as you mentioned, and uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, I love that you're dedicating that the hour

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Speaker 4: to him here. And I was working with Visible Incause

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Speaker 4: with Jim's publisher. Jim also worked with and when he

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Speaker 4: got sick, you know, they kind of knew what was

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Speaker 4: where things were heading, and he really wanted this book

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Speaker 4: to be finished. Our mutual publisher called me asked me

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Speaker 4: about working with him, uh, picking up where he had

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Speaker 4: finished and you know, completing the book. And his family

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Speaker 4: and Jim himself were kind enough to let me do that,

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Speaker 4: you know, humbling and an honored to do it. I

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Speaker 4: didn't get to work face to face with Jim, but

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Speaker 4: you know, uh, he's the type of writer that I

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Speaker 4: try to be. You know that lets you in you

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Speaker 4: get to know him, you know his personality through his

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Speaker 4: writing and working with his rough notes and drafts. Even

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Speaker 4: more so, I think, you know, it's even a rare

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Speaker 4: picture of the gentleman.

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Speaker 3: So I was honored to do it.

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Speaker 4: It felt at many times like he was sitting right

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Speaker 4: next to me as I was completing it, and uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, I I hope that I've served him well.

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Speaker 2: The cover is fantastic. Do you think that depiction of

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Speaker 2: Bigfoot on the cover is pretty close to what it

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Speaker 2: looks like?

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Speaker 4: You know, I'll preface this with I approached this as

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Speaker 4: sort of the optimistic skeptic all my writing, you know,

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Speaker 4: and I think big Foot's very plausible.

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Speaker 3: I don't have the.

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Speaker 4: Solid proof that would convince me all the way, and

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Speaker 4: I like to be as skeptical as possible. I think

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Speaker 4: there's a place for that in this genre.

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Speaker 3: But yes, I think.

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Speaker 4: That's a pretty accurate depiction of what, in my mind,

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Speaker 4: Bigfoot looks like and what most descriptions of the creature are.

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Speaker 2: You've kind of expanded it to include not only America

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Speaker 2: but all over the place.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's important to, you know, not just

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Speaker 4: cover the there's certainly enough information in America to fill

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Speaker 4: multiple books as it has, right, but the creature has

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Speaker 4: been cited all over the world, you know, or similar creatures,

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Speaker 4: you know, relatives maybe you know there's the Yarine in China,

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Speaker 4: the Beteta and Vietna Indonesians, or in Pendeck the Yawi

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Speaker 4: of Australia, you know. So it's I think it's important

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Speaker 4: not to just focus on the American version or stories.

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Speaker 4: And the more you can know about maybe the past

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Speaker 4: or the history or the you know, creature's evolution, the

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Speaker 4: more you know about the creature in the present.

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Speaker 2: Where do you think the name Bigfoot came from?

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Speaker 4: Like, well, it's pretty well documented. It came from Andrew Gazzali,

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Speaker 4: who was a writer for the Humboldt Times in Eureka, California,

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Speaker 4: and he ran a story in nineteen fifty eight about

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Speaker 4: Bigfoot based on some letters he received from readers, and

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Speaker 4: they had told him a story about some California loggers

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Speaker 4: who had an encounter and as he ran the story

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Speaker 4: sort of as a sort of a fluff bit right

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Speaker 4: on a Sunday, just looking to fill out a word

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Speaker 4: count more or less, which I kind of love that

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Speaker 4: bit of the story that that's what drove it as

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Speaker 4: a writer's word count, but the loggers, one of the

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Speaker 4: loggers had had used the term bigfoot, and Andrew put

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Speaker 4: that into his writing and it just kind of suck.

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Speaker 2: In a big way. He too. Yeah, do we get

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Speaker 2: many sightings in Michigan?

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Speaker 4: Surprisingly? Yes, I was actually a bit shocked myself. You know,

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Speaker 4: you're familiar, of course with the Pacific Northwest, the hotspot

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Speaker 4: of you know, sasquatch breefoot sightings. You hear a lot

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Speaker 4: about Appalachia, you know, down through Kentucky and Tennessee. But

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Speaker 4: it turned out that the Midwest, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan are

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Speaker 4: right up there, you know, as Michigan I think has

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Speaker 4: if you go to some of the documentation, has something

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Speaker 4: like two hundred between two hundred and three hundred documented sightings.

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Speaker 2: There are some that believe, Michael that Bigfoot is dimensional,

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Speaker 2: coming from another dimension. It kind of eases its way

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Speaker 2: in and eases its way back out. What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting theory. I feel like it's pretty new.

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Speaker 4: I think throughout people have sort of looked at the

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Speaker 4: creatures as an organic being, and that's that's sort of

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Speaker 4: the way I lean. I tend to think some of

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Speaker 4: the stories about interdimensional travel or you know, multiverses or

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Speaker 4: alien interaction maybe are a way to try to solve

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Speaker 4: some of the questions that are difficult. But for me,

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Speaker 4: I think the evidence leads leans heavily toward it being

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Speaker 4: an organic creature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you may be right. You may be right about

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Speaker 2: that with with family members too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I think I think they live in uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, perhaps small groups, you know, maybe just family groups.

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Speaker 4: Maybe they even you know, are very solitary creatures that

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Speaker 4: only you know, meet up during certain periods of time,

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Speaker 4: maybe mating periods.

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Speaker 3: Things like that.

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Speaker 4: You know, if if they're more of a you know,

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Speaker 4: leaning toward of a sort of an animal rather than

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Speaker 4: a human tendency.

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Speaker 2: Would you say your big Foot Sightings book is an

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Speaker 2: eyewitness testimony.

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Speaker 4: I would say that there are eyewitness testimonies. I would

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Speaker 4: not say that it's an eyewitness testimony from me. Although

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Speaker 4: I have done some limited investigation in some areas, I

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Speaker 4: haven't myself come across any really solid evidence. Haven't had

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Speaker 4: a sighting, which isn't unusual. It seems to be for

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Speaker 4: some reason that those of us who go searching for

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Speaker 4: the creature have the most difficult time actually locating it.

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Speaker 2: Did Jim Willis ever see your Bigfoot?

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Speaker 4: I don't believe Jim saw a bigfoot, but he did

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Speaker 4: have an experience, and he writes about it in the

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Speaker 4: beginning of the book in the preface when he retired

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Speaker 4: to the woods, he had an experience in the woods

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Speaker 4: of he heard some knocking. He investigated, you know, with

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Speaker 4: his gun and his dog, had the feeling of, you know,

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Speaker 4: being in a presence, and he expands on it quite

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Speaker 4: a bit in the book, but it definitely drove his

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Speaker 4: interest in the creature and actually is what led to

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Speaker 4: him beginning this book.

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Speaker 2: Mike, we don't hear many stories of bigfoot attacking humans.

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Speaker 2: Did you come across any of that?

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Speaker 4: I did so, even some of the earliest stories I

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Speaker 4: mentioned the nineteen fifty eighth story with Andrew Gonzoli and

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Speaker 4: going back farther to the hip Can incident, which is

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Speaker 4: a pretty famous incident in Washington State where a group

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Speaker 4: was essentially surrounded by a group of these creatures who

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Speaker 4: were hurling rocks and boulders at their cabin, pounding on

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Speaker 4: the door, you know, definitely threatening. Whether it was would

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Speaker 4: have been you know, malicious. In the end or if

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Speaker 4: it was just threatening nature, you couldn't say. But there

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Speaker 4: have been documented cases of the creatures acting in a

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Speaker 4: violent manner, but these always seemed to be in response

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Speaker 4: to in sort of a self defense mechanism. I would say,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's usually because they've been disturbed. In the

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Speaker 4: Eighth Canyon incident, one of the individuals had shot at

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Speaker 4: the creatures and reported hitting one of the creatures three times,

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Speaker 4: So you can imagine they might want to get those

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Speaker 4: people out of there, right, So you couldn't blame them

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Speaker 4: for their or the actions of those creatures.

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Speaker 3: I don't think.

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Speaker 2: Might Bigfoot be the link between the ape and man?

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Speaker 4: I think that's an interesting question, and we really go

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Speaker 4: into a lot of that in the book. As far

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Speaker 4: as you know, evolution of the human species, you know.

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Speaker 3: Migration out of Africa or Asia, if.

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Speaker 4: You you know, subscribe to that theory, these could be

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Speaker 4: creatures that you descended from Dennis Ovan's or Neanderthal or

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Speaker 4: a similar pminid human ancestor. You know, even while humans

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Speaker 4: as we know them right as ourselves we're migrating around

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Speaker 4: the world, there were you know, several other species of

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Speaker 4: human Homo sapiens, not Homo sapiens.

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Speaker 1: But.

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Speaker 4: Homo genus that we're we're alive at the same time.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think a lot of people like to

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Speaker 4: think that if they, you know, believe in that the

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Speaker 4: evolution of man in that manner, that it's very linear.

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Speaker 4: You know, Neanderthals die out and we pop up, but

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Speaker 4: there's a lot more overlap. And even today there's been

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Speaker 4: DNA testing that shows that, you know, these denisoviet genes

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Speaker 4: are are.

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Speaker 3: All over the world still, you know, so.

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Speaker 4: Obviously some interaction between species that could have led to uh,

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Speaker 4: you know this creature Bigfoot or sasquatch, you know, as

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Speaker 4: a branch.

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Speaker 3: Of that evolution.

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Speaker 4: That maybe is just as smaller and not quite as

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Speaker 4: expansive branches of a zero.

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Speaker 2: Mike, you talked about the Obama Little Snowman out of

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Speaker 2: the Himalayas, and when I was a kid, I was

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Speaker 2: obsessed with that story. But to me, that story is

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Speaker 2: developed before we heard stories about Bigfoot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, and I think even has the migration of humans,

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Speaker 4: you know, kind of traveled from that part of the

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Speaker 4: world into the Americas. The stories of you know, these large,

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Speaker 4: hairy hominid creatures sort of did the same the Yeti

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Speaker 4: or the abominable snowman as I knew it as a

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Speaker 4: kid as well, even though back then I didn't know

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Speaker 4: what abominable meant, just thought it meant big. Uh.

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Speaker 3: The the Yeti was, uh.

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Speaker 4: You know, a creature that Annepleeese and Tibetan folklore talked

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Speaker 4: about for you know generations. It lived up in in

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Speaker 4: the Himalayan mountains or lives in the Himalayan Mountains. Some

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Speaker 4: people think maybe that creature has kind of died out

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Speaker 4: and moved over to the Americas. But even as people

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Speaker 4: as famous as Edmund Hillary, you know, looking for routes

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Speaker 4: to ever Ris, came across these footprints that they couldn't identify.

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Speaker 4: The Serpas who helped them with these travels identified them

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Speaker 4: as Yeti's, you know, explained that these were large creatures,

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Speaker 4: and the Yeti in the Tibetan and Nepalese folklore is

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Speaker 4: more of a magical creature. Similar stories in Native American

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Speaker 4: folklore of creatures like this generally thought to be like

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Speaker 4: a protector of nature or of the lands. But certainly

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Speaker 4: those stories made their way out of you know, the

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Speaker 4: Himalayan areas in the China. Their borders and into the

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Speaker 4: papers of Europe and especially England. It was a time

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Speaker 4: of you know, a lot of adventurers, a lot of

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Speaker 4: areas still being discovered and explored, and I think those

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Speaker 4: stories really captured the imagination of you know, people back home,

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Speaker 4: and you know, as as those stories became more prevalent,

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Speaker 4: I think it also allowed people to share their own

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Speaker 4: stories so that maybe they you know, were hesitant to before.

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Speaker 2: What might be one of the most fascinating stories in

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Speaker 2: your book, Bigfood Sightings.

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Speaker 3: Oh geez, you know there are many, Yeah, there are

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Speaker 3: so so many.

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Speaker 4: I really think, you know, the it's kind of a

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Speaker 4: combination that that Pacific Northwest discoveries, the early Ape Canyon

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Speaker 4: things like I spoke about, uh, leading up to the

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Speaker 4: Patterson Gimlin films, you know, in that area, the most

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Speaker 4: famous films that we see, And I think that may

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Speaker 4: be the most interesting story how that came about. I

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Speaker 4: don't want to give away too much of the book,

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Speaker 4: but just how the process developed of Patterson moving going

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Speaker 4: to that area to film looking for the creature information

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Speaker 4: he had gotten from other you know, now famous Bigfoot researchers.

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Speaker 4: I think that whole story and because it really I

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Speaker 4: think lit a fire under the Bigfoot phenomenon and you

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Speaker 4: know sasquatch investigations. I think for me that was the

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Speaker 4: most interesting.

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Speaker 2: And you delve into much more than eyewitness accounts.

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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, And as I said, I think it's important

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Speaker 4: to understand, you know, if you want to understand Bigfoot now,

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Speaker 4: it's it's one thing to try to understand the evidence

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Speaker 4: that exists. Now, you know, the eyewitness sightings, the footprints,

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Speaker 4: the you know, hair samples, all the good stuff we

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Speaker 4: hear about. But I think the more you can learn

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Speaker 4: about the creature's history, maybe it's past, where it came from,

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Speaker 4: just gives you a great greater understanding of one what

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Speaker 4: it might be and two how it might interact with us,

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Speaker 4: with nature, with you know, other creatures.

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Speaker 2: Well. With Mike Kozlowski, his website is his name linked

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Speaker 2: up at Coast Tocosdam dot com. We're talking about his

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Speaker 2: book Bigfoot Sightings, also Roade American ghost Stories. We'll touch

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Speaker 2: on that a little bit later on in the program. Mike,

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Speaker 2: in terms of the Bigfoot exposure, why can't we find one?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's that's the million dollar question, isn't I think?

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Speaker 4: So there's uh, there's I guess a difficult question to answer, really,

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Speaker 4: I mean, we're out there looking. I have some theories

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Speaker 4: of my own that you know, it's a smaller population

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Speaker 4: maybe than we expect. There is a thing called minimal

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Speaker 4: population viability that states, you know, a population as small

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Speaker 4: as fifty can have enough genetic diversity to breed.

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Speaker 3: And continue on.

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Speaker 4: If you imagine, you know, and another you know, population

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Speaker 4: of like five hundred. It's kind of a number that

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Speaker 4: is thrown out as being kind of a minimal existence

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Speaker 4: for a population. And you know, five fifty to five

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Speaker 4: hundred individuals, even just in America, that's a very few

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Speaker 4: people taking up a whole lot of space, right, very

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Speaker 4: few creatures, So it would be difficult to locate them.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's kind of a needle in a haystack.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of this story? You me your opinion? Okay,

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Speaker 2: guy called this sturing Open Lines. One night, he said

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Speaker 2: he was fishing on the bank of a likeke. Behind him,

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Speaker 2: he saw something wrestling around. Didn't pay too much attention

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Speaker 2: to it. At the point caught too. Trout turned around.

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Speaker 2: Bigfoot was looking right at him and the trout, you panic,

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Speaker 2: didn't know what to do. Handed the trout to Bigfoot.

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Speaker 2: Bigfoot took them both, looked at both, Fish looked at him,

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Speaker 2: gave him one back, and ran off into the woods

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Speaker 2: with one. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 3: I could believe that certainly.

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Speaker 4: I think I'm of the opinion that Bigfoot is you know,

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Speaker 4: kind of in between that sort of animal and human position, right,

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Speaker 4: that it's it has obviously a better intellect than you know,

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Speaker 4: the great apes that we know based on the stories

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Speaker 4: that we've heard about it. And and great apes are

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Speaker 4: very smart, right, I mean, they can learn sign language,

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Speaker 4: they can you know, communicate with us. They you know,

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Speaker 4: have family units and seem very human. So a creature

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Speaker 4: you know, more developed than that certainly could have the

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Speaker 4: sense to and to interact with us that way. And

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Speaker 4: I think again, you know, we mentioned whether you know

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Speaker 4: Bigfoot was violent. I believe that it's probably not, probably

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Speaker 4: just uh, you know, as it needs to be in

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Speaker 4: self defense, you know, to protect itself or it's it's uh,

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Speaker 4: it's home.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast a m every weeknight

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