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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, chuck here with a little Saturday select for you.

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Speaker 1: I challenge you to listen to this episode on Duels

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Speaker 1: because the name is cool and the topic is school.

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Speaker 1: It is Duels Colin A guide to throwing down the Gauntlet.

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Speaker 1: Here's a little, uh spoiler for you. The gauntlet was

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Speaker 1: a glove. It's for March two thousand twelve, and I

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Speaker 1: hope you dig it. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me.

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Speaker 1: It's Charles W. Chuff Bryant and uh, you've got Stuff

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Speaker 1: you Should Know on guard. Yeah, to see it means

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Speaker 1: a touch in French. I thought this was one of

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Speaker 1: the funniest openings of an article ever. By the way,

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Speaker 1: did you like it? I thought that very first part

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Speaker 1: was hysterical when I read it. Well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: it just so happens. I don't have an intro for

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Speaker 1: this one, so I think you might to read it.

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Speaker 1: Should we just read it? Yeah? Ed Grabanowski never lets

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Speaker 1: us down. No, he's good. The Grabster h this is

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Speaker 1: how duels work. Ladies and gentlemen. Pistols at dawn the

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Speaker 1: challenge is issued. To turn it down would leave you

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Speaker 1: marked as a coward for life. You meet at the

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Speaker 1: chosen spot, facing your opponent at a distance of twenty paces.

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Speaker 1: Your dueling pistols are loaded, One or both of you

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Speaker 1: could be severely wounded or killed. Today doctors are standing

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Speaker 1: by them in the damage if possible, while your friends

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Speaker 1: eye each other warily. Why is this all happening because

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Speaker 1: you made fun of his hat? It's so good. It's

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Speaker 1: about right too, if we find out and the rest

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Speaker 1: of the article, Yeah, well done, grabster. It's not much

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Speaker 1: of an exaggeration. Apparently, throughout the history of people or

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Speaker 1: ever since, we've had swords at least um men have

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Speaker 1: challenged other men to duels, and other people have died

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Speaker 1: as the result. You know, I thought this is a

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Speaker 1: great article. Um, I thought so too. This is definitely

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Speaker 1: something I knew, like virtually nothing about. Yeah, surely, me too.

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Speaker 1: But I did find out that things like uh, while

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Speaker 1: West duels shootouts very very close to reality. Sure, they

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Speaker 1: apparently happened to coincide at a time when dueling was

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Speaker 1: very popular in America, and this kind of all it was.

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Speaker 1: It was the Old West version of Pistols at Dawn

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Speaker 1: and um as an aside, probably the best dueling movie

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Speaker 1: of all time, The Quicken the Dead, The Quicken the Dead.

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Speaker 1: It's exactly right. If you have not seen that, pause,

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Speaker 1: pause this podcast, get off your treadmill, put your ice

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Speaker 1: cream down, whatever you're doing, go watch The Quicken the Dead,

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Speaker 1: and then come back and resume this podcast. Yeah. You know,

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Speaker 1: what I always appreciate about that movie was that there

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Speaker 1: were how many how many quick draws shootouts? Like, let's

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Speaker 1: say they were ten in the movie. Each one of

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Speaker 1: them was different. He filmed them different and had a

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Speaker 1: different feel Like. I just thought that was so creative,

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Speaker 1: like each one had its own little flavor. That's our

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Speaker 1: Sam Raymie, he's so good man. I love that movie. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's got new coming out, doesn't he? Mr Hollywood guy.

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Speaker 1: Come on, he's got something coming He's not doing the

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Speaker 1: New Spider Man. What's uh? I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: he might be working on another Evil Dead, like a

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Speaker 1: modern remake the uptake, or he might just be producing that.

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Speaker 1: If he does that, then'll be the second time he's

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Speaker 1: remade the Evil Dead, because The Evil Dead two is

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Speaker 1: a remake of the Evil Dead. Yeah, pretty much. Okay, alright, um,

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Speaker 1: so chuck. A duel for anybody who doesn't know, is

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Speaker 1: basically a one on one battle, as is evidenced by

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Speaker 1: the etomology. And apparently we said entomology before. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that. I don't like some eleven year old kid

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Speaker 1: called us out on that. I think he might have

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Speaker 1: misartus because I definitely hear the difference between etomology and entomology.

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Speaker 1: Etomology etomology of the word duel is um, I think

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Speaker 1: Latin right, duello, I'm sorry, dwell hum, which is a

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Speaker 1: contraction of a duo two and bellum war obviously antebellum

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Speaker 1: pre war. Oh I never realized that. Huh, okay, but

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Speaker 1: duo too. It's basically a war between two individuals as

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Speaker 1: a duel um, and it's been around for quite a

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Speaker 1: long time. Um, I guess we should probably just get

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Speaker 1: to the get to the meat of it first. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk about duels and then we'll talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the history. Yeah, let's just throw down the gauntlet.

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Speaker 1: So somebody does throw down the gauntlet, and a gauntlet

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Speaker 1: is a glove, and when you threw down a gauntlet

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Speaker 1: at the feet of somebody that was at the height

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Speaker 1: of dueling, um enough to issue a challenge, say, you

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Speaker 1: and I are going to try to kill one another

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Speaker 1: for a little bit, or not necessarily. We'll get to that. UM.

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Speaker 1: When you went to a duel, you had a second

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Speaker 1: which basically was the guy who came along a friend

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Speaker 1: to trusted individual. Uh. It was it was like the

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Speaker 1: best man at your death. He was there to like

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Speaker 1: help you prepare your firearms or your sword. Um. He

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Speaker 1: was there to basic we make sure you weren't ambushed. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was supposedly a neutral third party, a second um.

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Speaker 1: Supposedly uh and uh. Supposedly we would try to talk

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Speaker 1: talk it down and diffuse it. That was the first

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Speaker 1: role of the second. But I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: I buy that. And Ed even points out like more

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Speaker 1: times than not, the second would actually fight the other second,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes there was third and force that would fight

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Speaker 1: the other third and force. And that's I looked at

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Speaker 1: this as it's the same as like a bar fight today.

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Speaker 1: There's always usually like a friend nearby that's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's got your back, but it's really between you and

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Speaker 1: that jerk. But if things get out of hand, he

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Speaker 1: like gets a beer bottle all of a sudden, then

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Speaker 1: you get involved and his friend gets involved. So it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like that, I think. Yeah, if he tries

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Speaker 1: to get in the middle of the two things, he

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Speaker 1: ends up like River Phoenix at the end of Stand

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Speaker 1: By Me and takes a knife to the neck and

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Speaker 1: dies in a bar. That was so sad, saddest ending

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Speaker 1: a river Penix's character. Let's say, since he really died,

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Speaker 1: then that's we should point that out. He had to

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Speaker 1: say it ending in real life as well. Um, so, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: When you declared duel, you could use any weapon, but

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Speaker 1: for a very long time, basically all you had available

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Speaker 1: to you was a heavy sword. Yes, and you had

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Speaker 1: to use the same weapon, and depending on what code

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Speaker 1: of dueling you were following, the challenger or challenge E

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Speaker 1: would pick that weapon. Right. Um, and you mentioned dueling codes.

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Speaker 1: There were several dueling codes, and the one that became

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Speaker 1: the most widespread was the Dueling Code of seventeen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: the Irish Code um, which is cited extensively in this article.

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Speaker 1: And I believe you're prepared to give everyone a treat

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Speaker 1: and read some of the rules from the code. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the code Duello UH. It replaced UM the floss uh

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Speaker 1: Duello Toorium, which was in the fourteen hundreds. The ill Duello.

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Speaker 1: In the Germans had their own dueling code which UM.

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Speaker 1: It was set by the fact Schuln dueling schools. Imagine

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Speaker 1: there's was just because they were German. It was probably

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Speaker 1: a little more hardcore, although everything was pretty hardcore back then.

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Speaker 1: It was. But if you look at the dueling codes UM,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the rules appear to be set up

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Speaker 1: so that you don't kill the other person. The whole

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Speaker 1: point of a duel is not to kill the other person.

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Speaker 1: It's to regain honor. Dueling is the result of an insult.

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Speaker 1: When somebody insults you and you challenge them to a duel,

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Speaker 1: you were seeking to say, I'm going to get my

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Speaker 1: satisfaction from you. Basically, you punked me out in public,

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Speaker 1: and that can't happen, that's another way to put it,

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Speaker 1: because I would be looked at as a coward, and

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Speaker 1: that would be a knock on my family's and my

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Speaker 1: ancestors honor. Even yeah, you had to protect the honor

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Speaker 1: of your ancestors. Backwards and forwards in in space or

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Speaker 1: time on either side of you. That's right, As I

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Speaker 1: was saying, some of the uh, some of the rules

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Speaker 1: are intended to prevent harm or injury, like you see

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Speaker 1: people like facing away from each other and turning and firing.

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Speaker 1: That was designed so that when you're using a clumsy

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Speaker 1: seventeenth century firearm, the chances of you hitting anybody but

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Speaker 1: a bystander way off in the distance is pretty low. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: From what I gathered after reading a handful of these

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Speaker 1: rules is that the Code Duello encouraged injury but not death. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What they didn't encourage was purposefully uh firing in the air,

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Speaker 1: as sometimes happened when neither one of them really wanted

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Speaker 1: to get hurt. They didn't really like that because that

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Speaker 1: sort of takes all the the hutzpah out of the

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Speaker 1: duel to begin with. You're very excited to read these rules,

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Speaker 1: aren't you jumping ahead a little bit? No? No No, we're

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Speaker 1: not there yet. Okay, Um, But one of the rules,

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Speaker 1: uh was that the winner could pretty much do whatever

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Speaker 1: they wanted it once you've won the duel. Let's say

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Speaker 1: there's an injury. You could kill him if you wanted.

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Speaker 1: You could just humiliate him if you wanted. You could

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Speaker 1: be a good guy and say, you know what, my

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Speaker 1: honor has been a squashed. It's great, so, uh, let

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Speaker 1: me give you a hand up, little buddy. And you're

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Speaker 1: a good person for doing that, I would say, So

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Speaker 1: I could see you totally doing that, Chuck, That wouldn't

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Speaker 1: I would have been that. There's no way I would

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Speaker 1: have been dueling to begin with you. You could also

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Speaker 1: cut the other person's head off after finishing him off,

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Speaker 1: or maybe finish them off by cutting his head off

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Speaker 1: and then posting it in a public place, right um.

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Speaker 1: I said also that the Irish code is very widespread,

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Speaker 1: so much so that this, to me is one of

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Speaker 1: the facts of the podcast. It was reprinted in full

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Speaker 1: as part of the Midshipman's Handbook of the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Navy up until eighteen sixty two, when the Navy outlawed

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Speaker 1: or band dueling among officers. But up until that time,

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Speaker 1: it was like, Hey, you're probably gonna get in a

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Speaker 1: duel at some point in time, and here's what the

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Speaker 1: Navy says about that. And what the Navy says is

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Speaker 1: what the Irish say. Women typically did not duel and

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Speaker 1: when they did, uh, it says in the article here

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Speaker 1: it was viewed on as an oddity and a strange,

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Speaker 1: amusing spectacle, which like foxy boxing is today, well or

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Speaker 1: the it's kind of like the first catfights. Yeah, is

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Speaker 1: that sexist totally? But I mean that's what they That's

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Speaker 1: apparently what they. They viewed duels among women as it

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Speaker 1: was an amusement for men because women are just so stupid.

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Speaker 1: But that that right, except except if you were dumb

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Speaker 1: enough to make, uh that kind of judgment about Lamo

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Speaker 1: pen Yeah, you probably would have had your head cut

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Speaker 1: clean off your body. She was a genuine dueler swordswoman,

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Speaker 1: and depending on who you talked to, it's either her

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Speaker 1: father who trained her, or a lover who was a

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Speaker 1: great fencer. And uh, however, I think she like the

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Speaker 1: ladies as well, because later in her life, after performing

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Speaker 1: in bars and dressed as a man, but not to

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Speaker 1: like say hey I am a man. I think it

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Speaker 1: was just like, hey, I'm more comfortable in these clothes.

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Speaker 1: It's easier to move in these clothes exactly. Um, she

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Speaker 1: uh dug up the corpse of a dead nun right

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Speaker 1: put in the dorm room, set that room on fire

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Speaker 1: to fake her own death so she could escape the

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Speaker 1: convent with her female lover, Llamo pen So she was

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Speaker 1: a pretty uh progressive rock and chick back then. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was pretty cool. Um and that was after she

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Speaker 1: retired from the opera Early Sea. Yeah, so she she

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Speaker 1: was pretty cool. No Foxy boxing there, No, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what that is. I haven't seen that. It's

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Speaker 1: exactly what it sounds like. Yeah, it was kind of

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Speaker 1: big in the I think the eighties maybe the seventies

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Speaker 1: of like just women like boxing one another but not

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Speaker 1: really and then like it's it's incredibly sexist. There were

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Speaker 1: a lot of fights at my school, my high school.

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Speaker 1: I mean not like a lot, like it was a

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Speaker 1: rougher school, but it always struck me even as a

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Speaker 1: youngster that like, when guys would get in a fight,

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Speaker 1: it was always horrific, and then when girls would get

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Speaker 1: in a fight, the dudes would be sitting around laughing

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Speaker 1: at it. I saw a girl fight in high school

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Speaker 1: once that was really disturbing. It was more disturbing than

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Speaker 1: any guy fight I've ever seen, because girls fight dirty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: both of these girls were fighting very dirty. It was

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Speaker 1: really horrible. One of the I think like the assistant

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Speaker 1: principal jumped in and got like smacked around and ended

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Speaker 1: up backing off. Yeah, it was a bad fight. So

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Speaker 1: there was nothing funny about that one. No, not at all.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, is there anything funny about anybody fighting? No,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so, unless it's, like, I don't know, clowns. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: clowns fighting, Yeah, that'd be funny. Clown fight. That's hilarious

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Speaker 1: unless one of them dies, that's right. Uh chuck. So

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Speaker 1: we mentioned that seconds are in charge of issuing apologies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can't just go over and say, um, hey man, guys, sorry,

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Speaker 1: he'll never do it again. Can he have his gauntlet back?

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Speaker 1: That just doesn't work. There's standards, there's rules to issuing

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Speaker 1: an apology, and as I understand, you're prepared to explain

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Speaker 1: the rule from the Code Duello for issuing apology. I

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Speaker 1: think even its rule number one, very first rule, as

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Speaker 1: it should be. Let's hear, the first offense requires the

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Speaker 1: first apology, though the retort may have been more offensive

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Speaker 1: than the insult. Example, A tells B he is impertinent,

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Speaker 1: ETCETERA B retorts that he lies. Yet A must make

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Speaker 1: the first apology because he gave the first offense. And

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Speaker 1: then after one fire b may explain away the retort

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Speaker 1: by a subsequent apology. Very nice, thank you, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much. Um. So, basically, no matter how bad the

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Speaker 1: retort is from the first insult, Yes, whoever insults the

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Speaker 1: other person first has to apologize first, right, then they

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Speaker 1: shoot it one another and then the second person can apologize. UM.

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Speaker 1: You also have rules to whether or not or how

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Speaker 1: a um an apology can be accepted, or if an

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Speaker 1: apology a verbal one is even worth anything at all?

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Speaker 1: What situation that is it? Won't you? I point you

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Speaker 1: to rule number five josh as a blow is strictly

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Speaker 1: prohibited under any circumstances among gentlemen. So no hitting evidently,

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Speaker 1: yeah no, or if you do, that's it. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: no going back, No vertebal apology can be received for

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Speaker 1: such an insult. The alternatives therefore, the offender handing a

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Speaker 1: cane to the injured party to be used on his

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Speaker 1: own back at the shame time, begging pardon and fightering

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Speaker 1: on until one or both are disabled, or exchanging three

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Speaker 1: shots and then asking pardon without profit of the cane. So,

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Speaker 1: if you wanted apology after smacking someone in the face, um,

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Speaker 1: but you didn't want the cane. You us had to

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Speaker 1: shoot at each other three times, or I imagine maybe

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Speaker 1: deal three blows with a sword. Right, But by this

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Speaker 1: time seventeen seventy seven, firearms were all the rage for dueling,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to, um, So you've got to duel.

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Speaker 1: All the apologies have been either not offered or rejected,

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Speaker 1: and it's time for the duel. It's uh, there's certain etiquette, right.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned, um that there's rules against not really doing

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Speaker 1: this wholeheartedly, Like, if you're going to get into a duel,

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Speaker 1: you have to do it wholeheartedly as as far as

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Speaker 1: the Code duello um is concerned. But this is also

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Speaker 1: one of the more frequently broken rules because most people

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Speaker 1: who were in duels didn't really want to die, and

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Speaker 1: they probably didn't want to kill the other person either,

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Speaker 1: because I imagine when you're in a duel with somebody

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Speaker 1: and that's your reality at that moment, and it's not

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Speaker 1: just some guys and powdered wigs out, you know, in

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Speaker 1: an apple tree, and it's avoid engraving or wood carving,

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Speaker 1: but it's really what's going on in your world. Right then, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you are acutely interested in not killing and

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Speaker 1: not dying at that moment. Yeah, I would have applied

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Speaker 1: them with alcohol. I would have been the guy being like,

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Speaker 1: come on, man, you would have made a great second,

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Speaker 1: like can we just have this ale here and talk

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Speaker 1: it over and laugh about it? Right, it's funny, right,

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Speaker 1: But they took it way more serious than So. There's

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Speaker 1: this rule that says, man, if you're going to get

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Speaker 1: in a duel, you have to do it all the way.

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Speaker 1: It's called Rule thirteen. No dumb shooting or fighting in

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Speaker 1: the air is admisionable. In any case, the challenger ought

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Speaker 1: not to have challenge without receiving offense, and the challenged ought,

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Speaker 1: if he gave offense, to have made an apology before

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Speaker 1: he came on the ground. Therefore, children's play must be

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Speaker 1: dishonorable on one side of the other end is accordingly prohibited.

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Speaker 1: Very nice. Um, so you've got all these we need

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Speaker 1: strickling Huh No, No, I think that's great. Okay. Um,

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Speaker 1: so you you've got this rule that says you you

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Speaker 1: do this all the way. But that's not necessarily how

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Speaker 1: a lot of duels worked. Um, guys would agree ahead

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Speaker 1: of time, like, hey, we're actually gonna do the duel

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Speaker 1: but we'll both shoot into the air, um like you

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Speaker 1: don't want to die, which, which, by the way, is

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Speaker 1: what happened, is how Alexander Hamilton died at the hands

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Speaker 1: of the treacherous Aaron Burr. Let's go ahead and talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Well, they were political rivals. They were both

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Speaker 1: um they were in a law firm together, and that's

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Speaker 1: where they first learned to hate one another. And then

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Speaker 1: they were in a very small country at the time.

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Speaker 1: They were very big fish in the same small pond

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Speaker 1: um and things got out of hand. And I can't

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Speaker 1: remember who challenged to do a duel, do you. Uh? Yes.

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Speaker 1: It was a series of insults. And this was at

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Speaker 1: a time where the losing presidential candidate would become vice president. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which could you imagine that these days? Yeah, they'd be

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Speaker 1: pretty awesome kind of. I think it'd be nice. It would.

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Speaker 1: It would temper things, well, it would. I guess it

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Speaker 1: was for balance of power. I don't know if it would.

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Speaker 1: It was a consolation price, that's true. Uh. So they

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Speaker 1: disliked each other. There were a bunch of insults, and

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Speaker 1: Burr challenged Hamilton's and Weehawken, New Jersey, and uh, there

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Speaker 1: are varying accounts um on what happened, But what we

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Speaker 1: do know that happened, Hamilton's got shot, bird didn't. Whether

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Speaker 1: or not Hamilton's fired in the air is a good guy,

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Speaker 1: That's what I heard, or got hit and was like

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Speaker 1: and fired up in the air never is debatable. Alexander

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Speaker 1: Hamilton was a crack shot, had great timing, he had

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Speaker 1: catlike reflexes. Aaron Burr shot Hamilton's Hamilton's fired into the air.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Burr was actually, uh, I think arrested for murder,

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Speaker 1: wasn't he? He was charged with murder and basically acquitted

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Speaker 1: in the end. But um, this is a time when

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Speaker 1: it was like kind of on the outs. They were

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Speaker 1: beginning to outlaw dueling anyway, and it ruined his career,

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Speaker 1: basically ruined his political career. From that point, people are like,

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Speaker 1: who's on the twenty And by twenty, of course, I

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Speaker 1: mean who's on the tin? Yeah, the ten dollar Bill

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Speaker 1: Jackson's on the twenty. Alexander Hamilton's on the time. Stop emailing.

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Speaker 1: You've got nothing but twenties O in your role so

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Speaker 1: that I can't even tell you who's on the time.

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Speaker 1: And did they even make dollar bills. Um, So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: let's get two seconds, which again I want to say that,

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Speaker 1: um oh, before I got ahead of ourselves. I'm sorry. Um. Also,

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Speaker 1: you should never duel at night. The only time when

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Speaker 1: you can legitimately hold a duel at night, meaning that

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Speaker 1: the same night of the offense. Um, it was when

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Speaker 1: the person was going to be leaving town before daybreak.

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Speaker 1: No need to even read that one. That speaks for itself,

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Speaker 1: and that makes good sense. Basically, they're cooler. Heads prevailed

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Speaker 1: generally the next day, h which is a great rule

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Speaker 1: in marriage in life. I'm always a big fan of

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Speaker 1: sleep on it. Why don't we sleep on it? Yep,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. But and but sometimes the wife will

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Speaker 1: still wake up just as angry the next day. It happens,

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Speaker 1: But most times the worst is wake up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night angry. Yeah, that's pretty bad when

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Speaker 1: the rage of seething chucks sk So, Chuck, do you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about seconds? Yes? Uh? Seconds Uh. They

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Speaker 1: had very specific rules for the role of the second Um.

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Speaker 1: They had to take care of the guns in the

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Speaker 1: same way and load in the presence of one another.

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Speaker 1: I can't shake the feeling that we're both in trouble.

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Speaker 1: I know, Um, they would have to uh, Like I said,

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Speaker 1: load the guns together and in front of each other,

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Speaker 1: and the gun was already agreed upon. Um, they have

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Speaker 1: a smooth a smooth boar. Yeah, and I think the

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Speaker 1: rifle boar would would be a more accurate, longer distance shot.

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Speaker 1: So they said, we can't use up. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: shot putting a football or throwing it in a tight spiral,

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Speaker 1: which one is going to get further with more accuracy. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. But yeah, so you want to load

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Speaker 1: in the presence of one another, yeah, saying look, see

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Speaker 1: the boar smooth, and we're doing it right here so

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Speaker 1: everyone can see it. Their sports. Everyone pay attention. And

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Speaker 1: we also mentioned how they are bound to offer or

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Speaker 1: to try to get an apology generated to avoid a duel.

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Speaker 1: They're supposed to according to the code. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: rule twenty five if if they can't come to any

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Speaker 1: kind of resolution and the seconds clearly are eyeball on

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Speaker 1: one another, like oh dude, you're going down to it's

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Speaker 1: on between us. They had rules for that as well,

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Speaker 1: like rule where seconds disagree and resolved to exchange shots themselves.

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Speaker 1: It must be at the shame time and at right

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Speaker 1: angles with their principles. I don't get the right angles thing.

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Speaker 1: How is that physically possible? I don't know. I took

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Speaker 1: that to mean they shoot from the same angle. That

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Speaker 1: would be parallel, not right angle. Well, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it meant right angle in the geometric sense. I think

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Speaker 1: it meant the correct angle, as in the same angle.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong. Do you think it meant like geometry?

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Speaker 1: I think the authors had put in a full day

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Speaker 1: by the time they got to this rule. Or maybe

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Speaker 1: at right angles it meant if these two are shooting here,

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Speaker 1: then they have to shoot there, so they don't there's

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Speaker 1: no crossfire coming at them. Okay, yeah, so they make

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Speaker 1: a square. I don't know. We'll have to look into that.

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Speaker 1: Um And then how do you know when a duels over,

400
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Speaker 1: especially when it doesn't necessarily result in the decapitation of

401
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: what when you cut somebody's head off and posted on

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Speaker 1: a pike in the town square? The duels over? But

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Speaker 1: there's also um more nuanced endings possible right rule number

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Speaker 1: five if schualj are used, m the parties engage until

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Speaker 1: one is well bloodied, disabled, or disarmed, or until after

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Speaker 1: receiving a wound and blood being drawn. The aggression begs Paul,

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Speaker 1: done right unless the unless the person who's disabled insists

408
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: that it's only a flash point. Right. He does have

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Speaker 1: a did you notice his his money Python reference in here? No,

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Speaker 1: that's not definitely not the only article with the money

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Speaker 1: python reference from him? What is it? Well? Later on

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Speaker 1: he's talking about how nobles weren't allowed to work and

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Speaker 1: they made money off of rent from their huge tracts

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Speaker 1: of land. That's for money python. I don't remember that part.

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Speaker 1: You remember that she's got huge tracts of land. I

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Speaker 1: don't remember. That's a good part. Good for you for

417
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Speaker 1: noticing that. I'm sure the grabstor he's always sneaking them

418
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Speaker 1: in um. And also any wounds sufficient to agitate the nerves, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or make the handshake must end the business of the day.

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Speaker 1: I mean that would be that's kind of a loose

421
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: if you ask me. Yeah, but that does mean that

422
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: the rule is over. So that's uh. If you if

423
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: you want to know more, if you want to know

424
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: all the rules, you can get your hands on a

425
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: pre eighteen sixty two U. S. Navy midship Men's Handbook.

426
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: Apparently PBS has all of them as well on frontline site.

427
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: We don't. I'm sorry, um, but chuck. Dueling was for

428
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: a very long time the pursuit of nobles right. As

429
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it was used to differentiate nobles

430
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: from common people. Like in a lot of medieval Europe

431
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: European countries, Um, commoners weren't allowed to duel. It was

432
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: out it was illegal. Yeah, and before guns that a

433
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: lot of commoners couldn't even afford swords because swords are

434
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: expensive to make and even more expensive than firearms once

435
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: they came around, so a lot of them couldn't duel

436
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: in the traditional sense, although the Grabster points out that

437
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: there were plenty of dual like circumstances among commoners too.

438
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: It was just the bar fight. You just can't let

439
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: the local fuzz find out what you're doing. And noblemen

440
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: were expected to duel, right, And the whole point of

441
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: dueling was the protection of honor, and honor as a concept,

442
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: as the Grabster points out, is is not what we

443
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: think of it today. Um. Honor is basically like if

444
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: you were rich, if you have a title, if you

445
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: are a member of an important family, you have honor

446
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: automatically it's attached to you. Yeah, it doesn't mean that

447
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: you were a good upstanding guy. It just means like,

448
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: this is your station in life. You were you're blessed

449
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: basically by being born rich and white exactly. It's like

450
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: the one um and you have honor, and it's fragile,

451
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: extremely at all times. Uh, it's prone to be insulted

452
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: at the drop of the hat, at the drop of

453
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: a glove, especially very nice, but even the drop of

454
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: the hat. Um. And not only is your honor at stake,

455
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: but the honor of your family for generations forward, generations backward,

456
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: and any schmo of noble rank um. I imagine if

457
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: a commoner came up and insulted your family, just cut

458
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: their head off right there, and there's no duel. It's

459
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: just death for the commoner, right. But if another person

460
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: of nobility comes up in and soult your family honor,

461
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: then you say it's on. I challenge you to a duel.

462
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: At this point, and you've mentioned cowardice already, But at

463
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: this point, the other person has a choice. Very socially speaking,

464
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: they don't really have a choice. They do have a choice.

465
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: They can either accept the duel or they can be

466
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: a coward. And in the same vein, the person whose

467
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: honor is insulted has a choice. They can either issue

468
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: a challenge to a duel, or they can let it slide.

469
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: Either way, if you let it slide or you shirk

470
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: a duel, you're a coward. And that was a big

471
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: deal back then. It wasn't just like, you know, Jimmy's

472
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: a sissy because he wouldn't fight me at school. It

473
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: was which haunts you for the rest of your life.

474
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: You know that's true. But your family was was insulted.

475
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: You could lose your honor, like they would take it

476
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: away legally sometimes um, they could publish an account of

477
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: it to the church who and you know in the

478
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: church they're gonna tell everybody, Jerick Howard. It was not

479
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: an abstract thing. Kings who would not uphold their honor

480
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: could lose their noble ranking. They would just take it away,

481
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: and you could actually be punished and excommunicated and your

482
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: voting rights revoked for cowardice. Serious stuff. Back then. You

483
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: could also be imprisoned and killed and just it just

484
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: generally bad things fed to dragons probably. I don't know

485
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: if you could be killed. I just I just said that, well,

486
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: if a dragon's evening you you wish someone would kill you.

487
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: A good point. Um, So I think probably the whole

488
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: this whole code, this whole dueling code is and how

489
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: refined it became was out of the frequency of dueling. Right. Yeah, apparently,

490
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: like you said, these people um sat around with their

491
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: huge tracts of land. Well they couldn't work. No, they

492
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: like you couldn't were if you wanted to work, You

493
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: couldn't if you were of noble noble blood. Yeah, I

494
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: mean you literally could not hold a job even if

495
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: if you're like if you found you were really good

496
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: at something. But I really like Blacksmith in making these

497
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: these shoes, these horts shoes. You're a nobleman, you have

498
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: to make your money off of rent. So the end

499
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: result of that is after a lot of sitting around

500
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: in uh fox hunting and me drinking, you get a

501
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: little bored, and so dueling kind of became a sport

502
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: for board nobleman. Yeah, these young guys are like, well,

503
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: got nothing better to do, so let me go down

504
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: to the pub and uh throw down the gauntlet on someone,

505
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: or just be really easily irritable to where anything that

506
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: happens to me. You bought me in the bar and

507
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: like all right, it's on. Or you looked at my lady.

508
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: That was a big one. Yeah. Um. The other aspect

509
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: of it wasn't just boredom. It was also that you

510
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: were the better person. Yeah, in a field where you know,

511
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: there is a definite set hierarchy. Earls are equal to earls,

512
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: and dukes equal to dukes, and viscounts equal to viscounts.

513
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: Um vice roys equal device roys. That whole kind of thing.

514
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: I could continue, please do I don't. I can't continue.

515
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: You called my bluff. Um, But this is a way

516
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: to differentiate yourself among your rank by saying I challenge

517
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: you to duel, and I won. And the reason that

518
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: differentiates me is not only am I the winner, but

519
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: it means that God favors me. And apparently that that

520
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: was used. That was the predecessor to the legal systems

521
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: we had today. Well, yeah, let's let's get to this.

522
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: This is the commoners, uh would duel early on in

523
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: the eleventh and twelve centuries. Um, you would have trial

524
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: by combat. Sometimes it was like dunking a witch, Like

525
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: if the witch floated, she was a witch and then

526
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: she got burned out of the steak. If she drowned,

527
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: then she wasn't really a witch and she was pure

528
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: of heart. So if you win the duel, then you're

529
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: in fact innocent of your crime. Yes, because God favored

530
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: the winner of the duel, and more importantly, the guy

531
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: who accused you was now dead, so you must be innocent.

532
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: Although you may also fight a court appointed really professional duelists.

533
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: That's awesome and I can't imagine beating that guy. Yeah,

534
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: who would that? What was the uh well sky in

535
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: the Max Mad Max three? Master Blaster? Yeah, Master Blaster.

536
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: You would fight Master Blaster? Yeah you killed them. Boy,

537
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: what a reveal that was when they took off his mask. Ye.

538
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: Powerful stuff as watch sks. A lot of times if

539
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: you were good at dueling, you would just use it

540
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: to get out of stuff like Hey, I don't want

541
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: to pay this bill, so let's duel about it and

542
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: that'll settle it. And I know I'm really good with

543
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: the sword, so you don't stand a chance. Yeah, it's

544
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: all over, not just um debts, but also like if

545
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: you had a political rival, um that later became really

546
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: big in Missouri. Yes, Um, if you wanted somebody's land, anything,

547
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: anybody who who had something you wanted or who you

548
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: owed something to, you could just challenge them to a duel,

549
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: kill them in their problem solved. This is one of

550
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: the reasons why I think that noble classes were eventually

551
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: removed from the face of the earth. Well, you mentioned Missouri.

552
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: Between eighteen sixteen and eighteen twenty four, the the elect

553
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: territorial elections became so fraught with dueling to get rid

554
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: of your rival that, um, the first governor of California,

555
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: Peter Burnett, said, Peter Burgh. Now, Peter Burnett said, it

556
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: became desirable to kill off certain aspirants to get them

557
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: out of the way. So in Missouri even just killed

558
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: the dude before like and day and you're all set. Yeah.

559
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: Can you imagine like New Gingrich and Mitt Romney dueling

560
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: one another? No, because no. Um, So you've got dueling

561
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: evolving from early legal uh, an early legal system, to

562
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: the board noble classes, to the elimination of political rivals. Um.

563
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: And it comes from even further back than that though.

564
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: Like the the duel, the idea of one person battling

565
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: another person in some sort of combat in a formal

566
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: rule driven way Grabser goes back to jostin competitions in

567
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages, I think go back to glatiutorial combat

568
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: further back than that, but um in Europe, in western Europe,

569
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: northwestern Europe, it came from jousting, right, yeah, and it

570
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: makes sense to me. Uh, like you said, the joust

571
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: is pretty much a duel on horse back. Then you

572
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: had the chivalric code, which sort of lines up with

573
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: the code of the duel. And also you skipped right

574
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: past what to me is one of the facts of

575
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: the podcast. Oh no, I didn't know was coming. Go ahead,

576
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: you go ahead. Well, when nights, uh only uh noble

577
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: noblemen were allowed to be knights and to joust against

578
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: one another. So they would raise their visor at the

579
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: beginning to say, hey, look at me, I'm not descending

580
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 1: along my assistant, who's a lot better at this than

581
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: I am, as Heath Ledger did, As Heath Ledger did.

582
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: What what was that first night? Yeah, that's a good movie.

583
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: That was all right. Uh, So they would reveal their identities,

584
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: and that Josh, as you know, was evolved into the

585
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: military salute. Years later, had the lift of the visor

586
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: evolved into the hand I guess yeah, pretty cool, very cool. Um.

587
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: Eventually though, firearms came around and they found that, yeah,

588
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: these incredibly heavy suits of armor that can protect you

589
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: even from a joust. Generally, UM, are no match for

590
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: this musket. The smooth board must get with terrible aim

591
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: and accuracy, which cover it'll kill you. Yeah. In our

592
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: night's podcast, it was kind of the end of the

593
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: night exactly. It was also what the end of samurai. Yeah,

594
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: guns ruined everything. Yeah, well they changed everything for the worst, um,

595
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: and then you have UH as a result the no

596
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: no more need for a heavy sword because there's no

597
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: need for armor. Armor doesn't work. No heavy swords, which

598
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: they do. An evolution and sword making, and you have,

599
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: at least in Europe. I think Japan already had far lighter,

600
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: more better swords. But um, in the West, the evolution

601
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: of swords led to the sport of fencing as a

602
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: direct result of dueling and the loss of armor, and

603
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: it became more contest, especially after the Italian said, I

604
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: don't want to die. Let's put a little put a

605
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: little rubber tip on the end. That my sister was

606
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: in defencing really college, you interesting, my oldest sister. I've

607
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: always Uh, I've always wanted to try that. Well, I

608
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: think you should go to town. You could take classes, right, totally.

609
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: I think it's a kind of expensive startup. Sure, like

610
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: the whole get up in in the a decent sword

611
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: and all that, but a foil if in the vernacular.

612
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm sure once you got all that stuff,

613
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: you're fine. Yeah, that would end up being like my

614
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: venture into ice hockey, though I did just end up

615
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: having a closet full of gear really gets used. I

616
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: didn't know you're in the hockey. I was at one point, uh,

617
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: mid twenties. Yeah, I learned how to ice skate pretty well,

618
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: and then me and all my friends got hockey gear

619
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: and we're like, hey, let's play, and uh that was

620
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: pretty much where it ended. Yeah. Pistols. So Josh, when

621
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: did you get into pistols? Well no, no, no, I

622
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: didn't get into pistols ever. But um, when pistols came along,

623
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: basically leveled the playing field because pistols are actually cheaper

624
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: than swords and cheaper than get trained and fencing. You

625
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: could just practice shooting, you know, coke cans in the backyard.

626
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, it democratize it. It was

627
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: no longer the sport of noblemen because anyone could do

628
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: it right. And this is a time when um, the

629
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: word cocktail was invented to describe the strong drink you

630
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: had in the morning, like an old fashioned UM. So

631
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: America was super drunk. So dueling seemed like a really

632
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: good idea, and it took off as a sport, well,

633
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: not as a sport, but basically as a as a

634
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: socially accepted pastime because America doesn't have kings or dukes

635
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: or anything, and there are a lot of guns at

636
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: the time, and everybody started shooting one another duels well,

637
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: which is one of the big reasons dueling began to die. Uh,

638
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: I thought, and it pointed out that I was wrong.

639
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: I thought it maybe because people called for the end

640
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: of it and said, you know, this is wrong, we

641
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing this. But since dueling began, the church

642
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: and other legal bodies said said, we don't like this

643
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: because it takes the Uh it kind of cripples a

644
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: legal system because you're taking into your own hands. And

645
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: the church didn't like it. They're like, we want to

646
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: judge these people on their crimes. And it also kind

647
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: of violates one of the big bigger commandments. Absolutely forget

648
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: about the Crusades for that one. But sure, uh, military

649
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: leaders didn't like it because it was killing off able,

650
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: young bodied men. Yeah. And then later on war itself,

651
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: like the Civil War and the First World War. Really

652
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: we're like, hey, there's more serious things going on. People

653
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: really die in battle, like it sort of became a

654
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: bit of fools undertaking. Well what I understand. I think

655
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: it also hit home to the horrors of combat, made

656
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: people not want to kill one another as much. Yeah,

657
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: like real deal combat. Yeah, and the Civil War and

658
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: the First World War. Like you said, we're linked to

659
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: declines in the US and Europe respectively of dueling. Um,

660
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: and there is I guess. Also one of the other

661
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: reasons dueling declined was because when it was exposed to

662
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: the middle classes, it wasn't just super rich people killing

663
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: each other anymore, which was the original purpose, which is

664
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: why the lower classes are like, who cares? Dueling is fine, Go,

665
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 1: that's fine, We're doing our own thing. And then once it's,

666
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: like you said, democratized and spread to the middle and

667
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: lower classes, it became a problem. And then eventually it

668
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: was we were left with dueling Banjo's and that was

669
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: about as serious as I got. I think that that

670
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: is an excellent way to end this podcast. Dude, you

671
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: got you can't. I'm not even gonna ask if you

672
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: have anything more. If you want to learn more about

673
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: dueling and you want to see some of these cool rules,

674
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: you can type duel into the search bar at how

675
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. You can tweet to us at

676
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: s y s K podcast. That's our Twitter handle. UM.

677
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: You can also reach us on Facebook at Facebook dot

678
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: com slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us

679
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: an email of the Stuff podcast to how stuff worce

680
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: dot com and has always joined us at our home

681
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: on the web. Stuff you Should No dot Com. Stuff

682
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio's How

683
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit

684
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

685
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H