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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of five

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there,

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Speaker 1: and Jerry's over there somewhere and the Stuff you Should Know,

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Speaker 1: and it's about this recording session is off to his

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Speaker 1: auspicious to start as the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Chuck, am,

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Speaker 1: I right, yeah, nice little UH tie in there, Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much. It's it's what I'm paid to do.

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Speaker 1: I think so didn't know what they pay us for

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Speaker 1: to be witty and incisive? I think so. I think

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Speaker 1: so too, so, Chuck, I know, Um, to my astonishment

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Speaker 1: that you were not alive during the Bay of Pigs Invasion.

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Speaker 1: You came along a good decade after that, from what

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Speaker 1: I understand, in full of years, I didn't want anything

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Speaker 1: to do with it now, and I can under stand why,

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Speaker 1: because it was about as big a stinker as far

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Speaker 1: as foreign policy and military intervention goes UM. Certainly, the

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Speaker 1: US has made bigger blunders. A lot more people died

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Speaker 1: um through some of our UH misadventures abroad, but this

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Speaker 1: one is perennially the one that's pointed to is like

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Speaker 1: this is really a case study and how terribly wrong

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Speaker 1: things can go and how decisions were made basically every

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Speaker 1: level and at every stage. That that made sure that

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Speaker 1: that the Bay of Pigs invasion, which was the United

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Speaker 1: States supporting uh an invasion of Cuba by Cuban dissidents UM,

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Speaker 1: that that it's about as bad as it can go.

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Speaker 1: That that was like the perfect example of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it almost makes you think that if there was a

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Speaker 1: God who cared about American politics, that that God was saying,

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Speaker 1: don't invade Cuba, over and over again, don't invade Cuba.

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Speaker 1: And you know I can. I'm pressing all the buttons here.

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Speaker 1: Everything's going wrong, warning, warning, don't do it right? Or

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Speaker 1: God really loves Fidel. Well maybe so, because that was

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Speaker 1: the whole point, the whole reason that America supported this

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Speaker 1: UM covert action. Really it went a lot further than

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Speaker 1: support like drummed up a covert action UM led by

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Speaker 1: the CIA. The military was secretly involved, it was illegal internationally,

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Speaker 1: But the whole reason was to get rid of Castro

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Speaker 1: because UM on New Year's Day of what ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: Fidel Castro took control of Cuba from then existing president

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Speaker 1: Fulgencio Batista and Batista Chuck I wrote up on this guy.

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Speaker 1: He was a bad dude. He was a dictator. He

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Speaker 1: was actually he was the president of Cuba twice. The

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Speaker 1: first time he was corrupt, but the country is still

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Speaker 1: prospered under him, and he was he still looked out

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Speaker 1: for people. The second time, after an eight year period abroad,

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Speaker 1: when he came back, he was just bad news. But

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Speaker 1: as far as America was concerned, Uh, they were like, well,

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Speaker 1: he he lets American companies own most of like the

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Speaker 1: stuff in Cuba, so we're okay with them. When Fidel

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Speaker 1: came along, he said, nuts to that, we're getting the

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Speaker 1: American involvement out of Cuba and Cuba is going to

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Speaker 1: take care of Cuba from now on. And America said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how we feel about that. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we had our chance to be buddies with

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Speaker 1: Castro uh at the beginning, Like he came to the

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Speaker 1: United States and toured America and we we gave him

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Speaker 1: the the Heisman and he was huh, gave him the heisman,

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Speaker 1: the Heisman trophy. It's an expression, Oh, I've never heard

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Speaker 1: that before. You ever seen the hero got you? Yeah? Yeah, sure, sure, No,

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Speaker 1: I thought you were still like like in like describing

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Speaker 1: his grand tour and how great it was. I got you.

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Speaker 1: And then we gave him an honorary Heisman Trophy award.

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Speaker 1: That's that's where my mind weird, like that's what they

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Speaker 1: paid me for. Now. It's an expression. Yeah, it might

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Speaker 1: predate you if I feel like it was an expression

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Speaker 1: like in the nineties. No, I totally get what you meant.

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Speaker 1: It was the context that through me. Okay, well we

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Speaker 1: gave him the Heisman, and uh, he wanted buddy, And

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Speaker 1: that's when Kruschef came along and he was like, well, look,

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Speaker 1: Americans aren't gonna be my buddy. I'll be a friend

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Speaker 1: with you. And that's kind when all got started. We

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Speaker 1: had our shot. Yeah. Supposedly, though, the Bay of Pigs

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Speaker 1: invasion itself was one of the things that really drove

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Speaker 1: Castro into the arms of Kruscheff. So the whole idea

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Speaker 1: was to get rid of Castro because we were afraid

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Speaker 1: he was going to go toward Kruscheff and give the

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Speaker 1: Communists a foothold in the Western hemisphere, basically in our backyard.

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Speaker 1: Um and bye bye. Carrying out this bay of pigs invasion.

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Speaker 1: We made sure that that happened. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: great ironies of this whole thing. Yeah, because Castro wasn't

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Speaker 1: looking to be a puppet of the Soviets. That was

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Speaker 1: not on his docket. Um, and the Soviets really needed him.

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Speaker 1: I think at the time they they didn't have I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think they had less than five I C b ms.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they had anything that could even get

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Speaker 1: to the United States at that point. An I c

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Speaker 1: B M is the worst kind of BM. Uh. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think the fiery HOTBEATM so the worst kind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right about that, although it's anyone had an ICBM

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Speaker 1: because you'd probably be in big trouble. Maybe. But but

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Speaker 1: Russia needed the Soviet Union needed Cuba way more than

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Speaker 1: Cuba needed them at the onset. Wow, that's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea about that, because I know that

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Speaker 1: America was terrified of communism in the Soviet Union in particular,

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Speaker 1: but also you know, um, they didn't consider China to

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Speaker 1: be slouch is really as far as the spread of

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Speaker 1: communism goes. But the Soviet Union seemed really interested in

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Speaker 1: spreading Soviet style communism throughout the world, and at the

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Speaker 1: time colonialism was really kind of um the I guess

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Speaker 1: the European colonial powers were losing their grip on places

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Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia and Africa, and so there were all

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Speaker 1: these countries, um, including ones in Latin America that were

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Speaker 1: kind of I don't want to say up for grabs,

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Speaker 1: because I don't mean to undermine, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: agency of the people who lived and ran these countries,

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Speaker 1: but they were, you know, these were the these were

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Speaker 1: becoming the two superpowers in the world, so you you

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Speaker 1: could fall under their influence that at the very least economically,

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Speaker 1: if not politically. UM. And so the US was really

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Speaker 1: worried about the spread of communism. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that Dwight Eisenhower IKE, who was president in the

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Speaker 1: late fifties, warned about was the domino effect where once

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Speaker 1: you know, you had one country turn communists, it would

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Speaker 1: spread to another neighboring country, and then another and another,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, half of Africa's communists. So

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Speaker 1: we need to be worried about this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So America was really starting to enter like the fear

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Speaker 1: of that Cold War panic in about the late fifties

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Speaker 1: early sixties. Yeah. And here's the thing too, When I

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Speaker 1: say that Russia didn't have capabilities to strike from where

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Speaker 1: they were, I'm not sure if we knew that. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there are historians that that know that answer, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if America knew that. So as I

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Speaker 1: think that they just you couldn't take any chances. Basically

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Speaker 1: you had to get um Cuba off the map for

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union and not like in like sink the island,

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Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. No, and at the

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Speaker 1: very least you could leave the island in tech leave

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Speaker 1: the island. There's a lot, like a lot of valuable industries,

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Speaker 1: and like the mob was running casinos down there right

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Speaker 1: before Castros get rid of Castro seemed to be the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. Castro and Sha Gavar, Right. So this occurred

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Speaker 1: to the eyes and our administration CIA, who hatched a

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Speaker 1: plan that had the ominously c I a E. Title

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Speaker 1: of a program of covert action against the Castro regime.

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Speaker 1: And they presented this thing, I believe in them in

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Speaker 1: like nineteen sixty one, the very beginning of nineteen sixty one, um,

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Speaker 1: and they went to Eisenhower and they said, look, this

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Speaker 1: guy really, we all know that he has to go.

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Speaker 1: But here's what we think is the best way to

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Speaker 1: do this. We need to get rid of Castro, but

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Speaker 1: we need to do it in such a way that

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Speaker 1: it appears that the Cuban people have are are dissatisfied

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Speaker 1: with his rule and they've turned against him. We need

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Speaker 1: to keep our hands off of it. And and for

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Speaker 1: one reason, because I mean that just kind of seems

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Speaker 1: like a lot more legitimate of revolution, doesn't it. Like

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Speaker 1: the Cubans rose up against Castro, so they really didn't

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Speaker 1: want Castro around, so nobody should swoop in to help Castro.

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Speaker 1: But then, secondly, the US is not allowed to dabble

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Speaker 1: in other countries affairs. It's illegal internationally to invade a

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Speaker 1: sovereign country unprovoked or without reason. And so this was

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Speaker 1: not a good It wouldn't have been a good look

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Speaker 1: for the US to be caught doing this. So they

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Speaker 1: figured the best way to do it would be to

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Speaker 1: train a bunch of Cuban dissidents and have them just

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Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, and not only that, they wanted to

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Speaker 1: create a new government, they wanted to um disperse propaganda

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Speaker 1: anti Castro propaganda. I mean, it was basically, we want

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Speaker 1: to topple a regime and install a new government of

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Speaker 1: our choosing. Uh, and this is completely illegal. And Eisenhower said, sure,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. Um, this sounds good to me because what

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Speaker 1: we can't risk is them buddying up too much with

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Speaker 1: Kruchef and have nuclear weapons. All of a sudden parked

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Speaker 1: right off our coast, just right. So they went to Miami.

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Speaker 1: Which where else would you go to recute recruit Cuban defectors.

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Speaker 1: Perfect place because they were defecting and there were a

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Speaker 1: lot of unhappy Cubans that didn't like Castro that uh,

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Speaker 1: that left, and and they were they were there just

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Speaker 1: sort of waiting to be called upon and very willing

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Speaker 1: to be called upon by the CIA, as it turns out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and apparently when they started like amassing this group of

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Speaker 1: of recruits, they first started training them in the Everglades

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Speaker 1: in Florida, and they learned things like cryptography and demolitions

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Speaker 1: and guerrilla warfare and all that stuff. But um, it

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Speaker 1: was I guess an open secret or maybe common knowledge

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Speaker 1: is a better way to put it among Cuban dissidents

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Speaker 1: in Florida that the CIA was was training a group

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Speaker 1: down there with the CIA, Bless their hearts, they tried

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Speaker 1: to at least um make it seem like they weren't

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Speaker 1: from the CIA, which is a very CIA type thing

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Speaker 1: to do. So the agents, the CIA agents, said that

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Speaker 1: they were from a very powerful company that was bent

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Speaker 1: on on removing Communism from the world, and um, yes, sure.

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Speaker 1: But then one of the Cuban dissidents with CEI agents

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Speaker 1: says what And the c I agent said what and

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Speaker 1: the cat was out of the back. Yeah, and these

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Speaker 1: were not um, you know, they had to train these

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Speaker 1: guys up. There were there were a bunch of students. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: if you think about dissidents leaving Cuba, you can have

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Speaker 1: a lot of student involvement. But there were also just professionals.

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Speaker 1: There were doctors and lawyers and farmers. Um. There were

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Speaker 1: people that were had no money. There were people that

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Speaker 1: had quite a bit of money for Cuba, and they

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Speaker 1: all didn't like Castro though, but none of them, almost

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Speaker 1: none of them had any kind of prior training and

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Speaker 1: they were I mean, why this hasn't been made into

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Speaker 1: a movie yet is just flabbergasting to me, because this

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Speaker 1: has all the elements of a great movie. Yeah, especially

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Speaker 1: if you do it from the view of the dissidents

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Speaker 1: who were trained into a paramilitary group. I think that

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Speaker 1: would happen to be your protagonists. Yeah, because it's been

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Speaker 1: touched on before, like it was in The Good Shepherd,

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Speaker 1: that that Matt Damon movie about the origin of the

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Speaker 1: cia UM they touched on. You know, it's been a

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Speaker 1: I believe it's been referenced at least. But yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 1: there's no blockbuster movie. You know, we're like the Rock

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Speaker 1: and like Cuban guys who are like you know, they

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Speaker 1: also form a bromance too. That that that um that

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Speaker 1: really kind of is a subplot to the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's how they ruin it, isn't it

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Speaker 1: with the romances. Just that they're by casting the Rock

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Speaker 1: and vind Everything he just said sounded awful and exactly

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Speaker 1: how it would probably happen. I think Vin Diesel actually

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Speaker 1: released a record recently which I say props to him. Man,

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Speaker 1: he's multifaceted. He's a double threat. Is the name of

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Speaker 1: his one man band, Diesel Fuel. Because if not, it

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Speaker 1: should be. It's not a bad one. You want to

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Speaker 1: take a break. Uh yeah, I think says it's a

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Speaker 1: good great time for a break. Thanks man, I thought

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Speaker 1: you'd say that. So we're gonna take a break everybody,

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Speaker 1: in case you hadn't heard, and we'll be right back George.

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Speaker 1: So uh, Dave russ helped us out with this one,

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Speaker 1: chuck um and he uh said, we need to be

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Speaker 1: sure to give a shout out to Jim Rasenberger, who's

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Speaker 1: a author of the book The Brilliant Disaster JFK. Castro

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Speaker 1: in America's Doomed Invasion of Cuba's Bay of Pigs, which

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Speaker 1: is um. I've seen his work referred to multiple places,

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Speaker 1: so he wrote a pretty good book about it, and

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Speaker 1: I guess Dave Russ um learned a lot from him.

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Speaker 1: So thanks a lot, Mr Razenberger. But um, at where

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Speaker 1: we left off was there was a group of Cuban dissidents.

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Speaker 1: I think they reached uh the ranks of like four

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Speaker 1: um before they stopped recruiting that were being trained in

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Speaker 1: the Everglades. But they said, hey, we found this way

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Speaker 1: better camp in Guatemala. Let's move everybody there to the

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Speaker 1: to the rainforest because it's a little more like Cuba's

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Speaker 1: um climate. And uh and we kind of owned Guatemala

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Speaker 1: right well, Guatemala was at the very least very much

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Speaker 1: friendly to American interests by this time, because we had

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Speaker 1: already overthrown uh the I think the ellendeen A government,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Um, like, we had just done

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Speaker 1: that and installed like a pro American regime. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: this would have been a perfect place to have a

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Speaker 1: secret CIA training camp for Cubans to train to invade Cuba.

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Speaker 1: That's right, thanks to bananas reference to our past epio

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Speaker 1: seut on pr. That was such a good one. I

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Speaker 1: think that's my all time favorite, live at all time favor.

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Speaker 1: Huh m hmm. I don't know. I'd have to. I

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Speaker 1: have to look at the list and really give it thought.

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Speaker 1: It's that one's up there. I also love the the

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Speaker 1: Kellogg brothers. Those are probably my top two. That was

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Speaker 1: a good one too, for sure. Why we have to pick,

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Speaker 1: Let's just say, yeah, it's so weird and foreign. Remember

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Speaker 1: when we would go in the room with fifteen hundred

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Speaker 1: other people and uh, I'll hug each other. I just

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Speaker 1: broke out in like a cold sweat man at the

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Speaker 1: idea of that. It's like, it's funny when you watch

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Speaker 1: TV shows and they were filmed you know, prior to

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, You're like, you're standing too close together. Somebody

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Speaker 1: put on a mask. Yeah, you're making me nervous. You

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Speaker 1: have anxiety dreams too, about proximity. Uh no, I have

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Speaker 1: anxiety dreams about politics. See. I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: anxiety dreams lately. I mean not lately, for the past

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Speaker 1: nine months, every like once a week or so about somebody,

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Speaker 1: you know, being all up in my grill and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Get

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Speaker 1: away from me? Stand back, sir, Which is ironic, because

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Speaker 1: I love being close to people physically, I know. I

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Speaker 1: think that's probably why you have anxiety, is because there's

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Speaker 1: a tension there, like if you were naturally like stay

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Speaker 1: over there. I gotta tell you that that part of

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Speaker 1: the pandemic has been kind of easy for me. Some

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Speaker 1: standoffice to begin with, you know, Oh goodness, so chuck Um.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I thought was kind of

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Speaker 1: cool about this this group of people, Um, this group

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Speaker 1: of Cuban dissidents who were trained into a paramilitary group.

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Speaker 1: The CIA had the foresight to give them serial numbers

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Speaker 1: starting at number pretty funny, so that if anyone of

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Speaker 1: them were caught. They could say, well, my serial number,

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Speaker 1: and they'd be like, oh my god, there's people ahead

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Speaker 1: of them, how and how who knows how many after them?

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Speaker 1: When in fact, again it was in fact, I think

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Speaker 1: their patch said and that had a little air pointing

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Speaker 1: to it, and then right beside that it said, you see,

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Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was very elaborate patch. It was

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Speaker 1: very colorful too, and as a matter of fact, it

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Speaker 1: stood out a little too much. And then underneath it

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Speaker 1: said and there's more to come, get it right. What

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Speaker 1: was under that under that was it's totally not a

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Speaker 1: made up number. And then below that there was an

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Speaker 1: arrow that went all the way to the top. Start

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Speaker 1: over again. So they were actually called Brigade twenty five

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Speaker 1: oh six, and they named themselves after the serial number

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Speaker 1: of one of their fallen comrades who died in training

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Speaker 1: camp in Guatemala. He slipped on a slippery trail during

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Speaker 1: an exercise and fell into a ravine. And what was

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Speaker 1: his name? His name was Carlos Rafael Santana. Carlos Santana

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Speaker 1: slipped on a banana peel. Oh that Rafael really threw

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Speaker 1: me off, but yeah, appeal, no it didn't. But they said,

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Speaker 1: this is very said, so we're going to name our

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Speaker 1: brigade after him, and they did. So that's what they've

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Speaker 1: always been known by from that moment on this invasion

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Speaker 1: force of Cuban dissidents as they were known as Brigade

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Speaker 1: twenty five oh six. And one of the really amazing

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Speaker 1: things about Brigade six is, despite being, like you said,

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Speaker 1: you know, a group of doctors and lawyers and farmers

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Speaker 1: and fishermen and students and coming from all walks of

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Speaker 1: life and socio economic status, they actually were trained into

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Speaker 1: a pretty decent paramilitary group. They fought bravely, they fought

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Speaker 1: really well, they held their own as we'll see, and

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Speaker 1: they were doomed from the start, not really by any

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Speaker 1: any of their own fault, which must have been incredibly

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Speaker 1: frustrating for them. Yeah, I imagine. So, I mean, they um,

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Speaker 1: like I said, they weren't too hard to recruit, like,

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Speaker 1: they were eager to do this job, and they really

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Speaker 1: wanted to get Castro out of there. And you you

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Speaker 1: might think when a new president comes in that things

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Speaker 1: might change, they might kind of revisit this plan. I

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Speaker 1: think maybe this's not the best idea. I'm pretty excited

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Speaker 1: because I get to do my Kennedy. So I'm glad

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Speaker 1: I got out of there. I have no idea what

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Speaker 1: he sounded like. Uh, he sounded like this problem. But

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Speaker 1: Kennedy one in sixty um in no small part due

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Speaker 1: to the fact that he was He touted being very

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Speaker 1: tough on communism and on Cuba, and so I said,

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Speaker 1: let's get him in here. Yeah he was. He came

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Speaker 1: off as more hawkish about communism in Cuba than Nixon did,

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Speaker 1: which is funny against Nixon, and Nixon said that he

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Speaker 1: basically lost because Kennedy seemed like he would do more

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Speaker 1: about Cuba. And that's kind of, um, one of history's

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Speaker 1: great ironies because Nixon, because Kennedy used Nixon and UM

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Speaker 1: and Ike of being too soft on Cuba, of letting

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Speaker 1: this castro fella take power and letting him a mass

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Speaker 1: power and not doing anything about it. And Nixon had

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Speaker 1: to sit there and take it because he had been

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Speaker 1: sworn to secrecy about this plot to train Cuban dissidents

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Speaker 1: and in vague Cuba, and he couldn't he couldn't be like, actually,

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Speaker 1: that's not true. We've got this really great plan. Let

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Speaker 1: me tell you. Viewing audience all about it, so he

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Speaker 1: had to he had to defend this position of being

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Speaker 1: soft on Cuba even though he knew they weren't. Well,

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Speaker 1: Kennedy got to just run circles around him because Kennedy

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Speaker 1: was an unproven guy who seemed more hawkish on Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and some people point to that is how Kennedy was.

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Speaker 1: So when Kennedy when he came in, yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: no idea about about that. When he came in, he

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Speaker 1: really wanted to prove himself in that respect. And the

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Speaker 1: CIA said, are you sitting down, because we'd like to

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Speaker 1: drop this opportunity into your lap. And they let him

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Speaker 1: in on this plan to um in Vague, Cuba with

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Speaker 1: with Brigade six, and Kennedy said, are um great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: They said here's our plan. Uh, Mr New President and

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Speaker 1: he said the area you can stop calling me that,

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Speaker 1: Mr President will suffice. And they said, we're gonna take

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Speaker 1: seven and fifty of these men and we are going

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Speaker 1: to do a D Day style invasion at dawn on

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Speaker 1: the beach head in the Bay of Pigs, named so

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Speaker 1: because well that's the name of it. It's Bahia de

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Speaker 1: Concinos in Spanish. It's on the southern side of Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and he said it sounds delicious, And they said, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna land on that beach head. We're not gonna we're

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Speaker 1: just gonna route down there and not take Havana or anything.

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Speaker 1: Because here's what's gonna happen, Mr. President. They're gonna get

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Speaker 1: news of this in Cuba and all these anti Castro

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Speaker 1: Cubans there are gonna know that this is their their moment,

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Speaker 1: and they've got some army dudes that are involved. They

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Speaker 1: got some military personnel that are anti Castro, and they're

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Speaker 1: gonna say, all right, now is our time. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: rise up to overthrow Castro. And then that's when our

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Speaker 1: seven and fifty men, who are by the way, totally

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Speaker 1: disguised as Cuban dissidents, like we're gonna paint planes like

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Speaker 1: American planes, like they're from Cuba and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: like no one's ever gonna know. It's the perfect plane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've printed we've printed up t shirts for him to say,

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Speaker 1: down with Castro, with Castro. And he said, that's when

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Speaker 1: they're gonna join the fight and join this general revolt

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Speaker 1: and might take a couple of weeks. Bing bang boom,

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Speaker 1: easy peasy, and Kennedy said, all right, so that there

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Speaker 1: was a key to success in there. That the whole

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Speaker 1: thing hinged on and from what I can tell, kind

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Speaker 1: of unwarranted lee. But that was the idea that when

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Speaker 1: these dissidents attacked Cuba and the word got out that

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Speaker 1: that Cuba was being attacked, that the Cuban people would

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Speaker 1: be like to heck with Castro, get him, and would

387
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Speaker 1: it would ignite this revolt? And from what I saw,

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Speaker 1: this was based on a hunch. It wasn't based on

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Speaker 1: intel or anything. It was based on a hunch or

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Speaker 1: even a hope you could possibly say, which that alone

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Speaker 1: is a sign that you may be working on a

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Speaker 1: really bad plan, because anything short of sparking a revolution

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Speaker 1: internally in Cuba means that this is going to fail.

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Speaker 1: Like Cuba small, but Castro had a really extensive army,

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Speaker 1: tens and tens and tens of thousands of professional soldiers,

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Speaker 1: plus another I think a hundred thousand UM militia members

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Speaker 1: like what we would probably call like the National Guard

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Speaker 1: or reservists here UM. So even if there were five

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Speaker 1: thousand people or however many, they made it seem like

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Speaker 1: they were probably going to be overwhelmed if if Cuba

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Speaker 1: didn't rise up, and they had no reason to believe

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Speaker 1: that Cuba would rise up, they were just hoping. So

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's strike one. Yeah, it's a big

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Speaker 1: time intelligence failure. Another key to this, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: just put a pin in this one, listener, is air strikes.

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Speaker 1: They were like, listen, here, we got these dudes on

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Speaker 1: the beach. They're gonna be rooted down and they are

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Speaker 1: gonna be bombed to heck in back by Castro's air force,

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Speaker 1: which is small, but he's still got these planes. And

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Speaker 1: he said, so we got to take out that air

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Speaker 1: force or else their toast like they're sitting ducks out there.

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Speaker 1: We got to take out the air force. We've got

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Speaker 1: to take out the air force, which is and I mean,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like out of the question. Like Castro had

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Speaker 1: a big, a big army of ground troops, but his

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Speaker 1: air force was fairly paltry, pretty small, and it was

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Speaker 1: entirely within the realm of possibility to strike um all

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Speaker 1: of his planes. And if they did do that, that

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Speaker 1: would give this amphibious landing force a real fighting chance

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Speaker 1: to make their way inland. UM and if this revolution sparked,

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Speaker 1: then then there you have it. So um that that

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Speaker 1: that was definitely doable. Um. The problem is Kennedy when

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Speaker 1: he came in, he was really ambitious about getting rid

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Speaker 1: of communism and making a name for himself, is tough

425
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: on communism and you know, delivering on what he had

426
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: campaigned on. But at the same time, he was also

427
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: really aware of international image political image of the United States,

428
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: and so he said, I'm really worried that this is

429
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 1: going to be like like Chuck said, he knew who

430
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: you were, Chuck, Um that that this is gonna be

431
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: too being bang boom, Like there's gonna be a lot

432
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: of blowing things up, and it's gonna be obvious that

433
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: the United States is involved in this, and we just

434
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: can't have that. So let's go smaller for one. And also,

435
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: this place where we're going to land, Um, it's a

436
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: little too close to Trinidad, which is a pretty pretty

437
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: populous town in Cuba. This seems a little hostile and aggressive.

438
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: Let's move it to the middle of nowhere, this place

439
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: called the Bay of Pigs um and and start there.

440
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: And that was a really big, big issue for the

441
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: plan because one of the reasons they chose that landing

442
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: site near the city of Trinidad in Cuba is because

443
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: it was near the mountains and so if the guerrillas

444
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: um amphibious landing failed and it was broken up, they

445
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: could flee to the mountains and then regroup and start

446
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: launching a guerrilla war from the mountains. Instead, this place

447
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: that the Bay of Pigs was nowhere near anywhere. It

448
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: was near swamp land, and I think there was sixty

449
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: miles of swamp between the Bay of Pigs and the mountains,

450
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: so there was no melting into the mountains to escape.

451
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: It was all or nothing when they moved that landing site.

452
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 1: And that was another big thing that Kennedy did, along

453
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: with saying make it smaller. It could seem more like

454
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: Cuban dissidents are the ones who are really behind us. Yeah.

455
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: And the third thing he did was said, I don't

456
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: like this dawn invasion thing. He's like, this has got

457
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: to happen under the cover of night. We got to

458
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: be out of there by dawn. We can't have any

459
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: inkling that we're involved in any way. And I know

460
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: that paint job on these planes is is pretty good,

461
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: but it looks a lot better at night, guys, So

462
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: let's go in there at night. And this was this

463
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: is like a month out, and the CIA was like, dude,

464
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: we had a plan here, and you're telling us to

465
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: make it smaller, put it in a different place, to

466
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: change our time of invasion. And this is a big deal, Like,

467
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: this is not how things work. You can't just change

468
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: everything a month out and expect it to go down

469
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: the way you wanted to. And this was this was

470
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: everybody's chance to back out entirely, Like this was the

471
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: moment where somebody could have and should have stood up

472
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, this has got disaster and

473
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: all over it. Now, we can't, we can't do this.

474
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: We need to not just we just need to back

475
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: out and not go through with it at all. And

476
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: nobody did it. No, And this has all the hallmarks

477
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: of any like corporate project where you've been working on

478
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: something in this plan and developing like this, this whatever

479
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: it is you're developing, and then somebody comes along and

480
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: says change this, this and this and completely alters it.

481
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: But then you try to go ahead with the with

482
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: the idea anyway, and it doesn't fit, it doesn't work

483
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: enough fundamental things have changed that it just isn't like

484
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: the original any longer. And usually, just speaking from experience,

485
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: when that happens, you just scrap it and start all over.

486
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: Don't do the project. Yeah, New Coke's a great example.

487
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: Actually New Coke's terrible example. Let's go with um sliceice.

488
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: So Apple Slice started out as something called Aspen. It

489
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: was an apple flavored cola and people loved it, but

490
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: then they took it away. And when Slice came out

491
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: as a a new um citrus based soft drink, I

492
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: think Pepsi owned it. They threw Apple Slice in, but

493
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: it was really Aspen, but they just threw it in

494
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: and rebranded as Apple Slice. It didn't work because it

495
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: was something else and they had just tried to clamp

496
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: it on to the existing framework without adjusting it or

497
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: altering it. And Apple Slice went the way of the

498
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: dinosaur when Aspen had been so beloved. So the Bay

499
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: of Pigs invasion is on. Kennedy felt like he he

500
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: had to do something because the Soviets were buddying up

501
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: to Castro and he could not take the risk of

502
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: them installing nuclear weapons right there, ninety miles off the coast.

503
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: So they pressed forward um. A few days before the invasion,

504
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: the Oh six were moved from Guatemala's where they were

505
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: going to launch from, which was a CIA camp in

506
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: Nicaragua called Happy Valley. Very ironically, and just a few

507
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: days before the invasion, the New York Times published a

508
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: story about the operation basically out of the whole thing,

509
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: and Kennedy had to say something, So he said a

510
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: bunch of words that were lies. He said, fist, I

511
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: want to say they will not be under any circumstances

512
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: or conditions and intervention in Cuba by the United States

513
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: Armed Forces. This government will do everything it possibly can.

514
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: I think it can meet its responsibilities to make sure

515
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: that no Americans involved in any actions inside Cuba. Days

516
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: before they were about to do that very thing. Yeah,

517
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: and and not just days before the actual invasion, but

518
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: one day before that planned aerial strike that was to

519
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: take out all of Castro's planes, which was again, as

520
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: far as the CIA analysts were concerned, essential to the

521
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: success of the plan. Well, that New York Times article

522
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: made Kennedy pretty kg um and worried. It took a

523
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: lot of the confidence that he might have had, as

524
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: small as it was to begin with, in the plan,

525
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: and so he said, just for no really good reason,

526
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: just kind of reacting from what I can tell, he said,

527
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 1: we were gonna have six Team bombers, let's just cut

528
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: into like eight instead, And so those six Team bombers

529
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: went out. And the whole key was, I think you

530
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: said before that they were going to paint these bombers

531
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: to make them look like stolen Cuban planes. And the

532
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: premise was that some Cuban Air Force pilots had were

533
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: revolting against Castro when they had carried out this strike.

534
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: So they actually did have Brigade twenty five or six

535
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: members fly these planes, but they were American planes painted

536
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: to look like Cuban planes. They carried out the strike,

537
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: they only got about I think half of Castro's planes, unfortunately.

538
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: And then as part of the ruse, they flew to Miami,

539
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: landed and said we're defecting to Cuba or from Cuba,

540
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: wink wink. And so the press was brought out for

541
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: a press conference, and apparently the press immediately was like

542
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: that sure looks like a pretty fresh coat of paint,

543
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: and somebody else said, yeah, aren't Cuban machine guns mounted

544
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: to the wings. These are mounted in the nose like

545
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: American planes, and Kennedy was like, everybody, get out of here,

546
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: Get out of here. No one's calling you anymore for

547
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: any press conferences. And so it was very clear that

548
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: the US was actually doing what the New York Times

549
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: article was was saying, and that it was basically happening now.

550
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: So Castro definitely had a pretty decent heads up of

551
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: what was coming. Yeah, I mean Castro, that was all

552
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: the proof he needed. And he was like, hey, U

553
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: n um, the US of A broke their charter because

554
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: they attacked us, and what say you? And the US

555
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: representative to the U, n Adlai Stevenson, said, I don't

556
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: know anything about this, because he didn't. He was in

557
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: the dark about this whole thing. And he was really

558
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: upset about this, obviously because the CIA was doing this

559
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: all very very privately. Uh. And then Kennedy made one

560
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: more big, big decision is they said, listen, you sent

561
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: half the planes that we wanted, so we only destroy

562
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: half their air force. That's how that works, sir, he said.

563
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: They said, so we need to send in another air

564
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: strike because they still have half their air force and

565
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: that they're still sitting ducks. It'll just take them twice

566
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: as long to make them dead. And he said, uh,

567
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: you know what, we we can't do it. We cannot

568
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: go in with a second whoa wow, that is not

569
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: at all what Kennedy sounded like, Chuck. He said, Uh,

570
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: I don't think we should go in with a second

571
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: air strike. This is getting slightly heated, and uh, we're

572
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: all very frightened and hawney, Yeah, that's what they pay

573
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: you for, Chuck. There's like a myth that the c

574
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: I A UM planned this whole thing, and the reason

575
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: it was so botched and terrible it was because some

576
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: CIA analysts had basically done the whole thing in some

577
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: secret bunker um without any kind of input, in like

578
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: this very isolated UM project. And that's not at all

579
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: how it worked. Um that you know, there was basically

580
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people really throwing in a lot of

581
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: opinions and thoughts to to planning it. It was signed

582
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: off by eyes and how it signed off by Kennedy. Um.

583
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: The CIA was definitely not blameless. In the first place,

584
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: they were blamed. They were they were blamable for interfering

585
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: in another country's you know, affairs like that. But as

586
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: far as this operation goes, there were some blunders on

587
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: the CIA side, and one of the big ones, big

588
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: ones is that some youtwo spy planes that they flew

589
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,959
Speaker 1: over Cuba to take pictures of the Bay of Pigs,

590
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: this new landing site. When the analysts were looking at

591
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: the photos, they said, all this like like dark colored

592
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 1: um stuff like in the shallows off of the coast,

593
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: about a hundred yards off the coast or a hundred

594
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: meters that's just a seaweed bed. So we don't need

595
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: to worry about that. Well, when they finally staged this invasion, Chuck,

596
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: they found that that was not the case at all,

597
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: that the seaweed was actually coral, and these transport ships

598
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: ran aground on coral because the CIA botch that so badly.

599
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: And I feel like we might have gotten a little

600
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves, because I've put the people in the

601
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: Bay of Pigs now, and we should back up a

602
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: little bit. We should take a break, and then we

603
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: should launch the invasion day of what do you think

604
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: it sounds good? Alright, So Chuck, it's the day of

605
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: the invasion. They launch Brigade oh six. And remember the

606
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: whole thing, the whole point of this is that the

607
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: US is not supposed to be clearly involved, so they

608
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: have to do this at night, Like Kennedy requested to

609
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: get the American ships out of there. Um. So you've

610
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: got American supply ships holding supplies for this amphibious force

611
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: of Cubans Brigade six, and they're starting to run aground

612
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: in the coral reef. And that was just the first

613
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: of many many problems that they ran into that day. Yeah.

614
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: I mean, coral is not the kind of thing, you know,

615
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: a hundred yards out uh from the beach head that

616
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: you can deal with very easily. It's like it's not

617
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: like they were like, all right, well just walk on

618
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: this razor sharp coral and get everything in there. Everything's

619
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: getting wet. All this radio equipment is uh, and these

620
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: weapons are getting water logged and drowned out. A lot

621
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: of it was inoperable by the time they finally got

622
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: to the beach. Um. So it was just it was

623
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: the whole thing had gone sideways at this point. Um. Yeah,

624
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: like like before literally before dawn, the whole thing had

625
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: gone sideways. That's right. And by the time dawn breaks, Uh,

626
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: Castro knows what's going on. He knows that the Bay

627
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: of Pigs has as I had a beachhead landing, while

628
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: not quite a coral landing, and that they were still

629
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: unloading stuff and struggling to get their their stuff onto

630
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: the beach when the air force gets there, Castro's air Force,

631
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: and they opened fire on a supply ship named the

632
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 1: Houston and killed about twelve men and everyone else got

633
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: back in the water. Um. I love here that Dave says,

634
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: shark infested waters. It's always shark infested, right, never likes

635
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: sparsely populated with you like a few sharks here and there.

636
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: It's always infested there everywhere. So um, more of these

637
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: planes start coming in and the Rio es Candido, which

638
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: was the biggest supply ship they had, had tons of

639
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: explosive explosives, tons of airplane fuel. It was just a

640
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: big bomb waiting to go off. And that's exactly what happened.

641
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: Took a direct direct hit from a bomb and just exploded.

642
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: Like this is the big scene in the movie. I

643
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: guess where the rock is on the beach saying like

644
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: can you believe that? Bro right? I see him saying wolverines, yeah,

645
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: but with a Cuban accent. L Wolverines. So so he said,

646
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: he they say what it is, and remember there's Cubans

647
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: in Red Dawn. Oh that's true. What was Cuba, wasn't it? Yeah?

648
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: And they said what wolverine was in Spanish? But I

649
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: can't remember, but I guarantee a few of our listeners

650
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: will let us know. Chuck. Well, the CIA at this

651
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: point says, um, realize this what's going on, and says,

652
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: all right, the supply ships need to get out of

653
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: there and get into international waters. Stat and it's they

654
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: didn't pull the troops, but it's it's basically a retreat

655
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah. And so the Cubans realized this,

656
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: and like at least one of them, Peppe san Roman said,

657
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: like he got on the radio to a CIA handler.

658
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: He said, do not desert us. And see, I said,

659
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: oh we're not, we're not. We just forgot something back

660
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: in the United States. We gotta go get it. We'll

661
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: be right back. And they just kept backing off into

662
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: international waters, and they definitely deserted these Cuban dissidents who

663
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: had been um landed on the beach. Um that was

664
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: so like the Cubans are trapped there, and they um

665
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: fought like their whole thing was to just hold the

666
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: beach and then wait for this this UM, this revolution

667
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: to to spark by their presence, and they actually did.

668
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: They've held that beach for like two days, despite the

669
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: fact that Castro sent everything he had at these guys,

670
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: but they still managed to hold the beach for a while. UM.

671
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: And during this this time, while they were holding it, UM,

672
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: the military brass and the CIA went to Kennedy and

673
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: they said, look, these guys are getting slaughtered. We need

674
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: to provide some bombing cover. So we've got these bombers.

675
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: Remember how you cut the number of bombers in that

676
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: first air strike by half. Well, we've got some other ones.

677
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: Let's get him out air and UM, we'll just have

678
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: to also provide some some air cover from some fighter jets. UM.

679
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: So they did. Kennedy finally relented and said, okay, but

680
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: just as with everything that's possibly gone wrong with this

681
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: UM had so far, it's going to continue with this

682
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: bombing grade. Because the bombers took off from Nicaragua from

683
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: the base in Nicaragua and the air cover that was

684
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: supposed to meet up with them was not ready because

685
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: they apparently miscalculated. They didn't take into account the time

686
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 1: zone difference between Nicaragua and Cuba. No one's exactly sure

687
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: what happened, but they showed up an hour early and

688
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 1: just cruised on by over to Cuba and started getting

689
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: shot down. Everything I saw said time zone. Okay, I

690
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: saw that too, But the thing is, it doesn't make

691
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: sense if the if if they were an hour behind,

692
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: then wouldn't they have been an hour late rather than

693
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: an hour early. That's what I saw. Well, I just

694
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: saw time zone error, so it could been aye, But

695
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: whereever it was, they showed up an hour basically an

696
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: hour early, and and they got shot down. But the

697
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: problem that I saw with that, in particular, Chuck, was

698
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: these were not Brigade or six pilots. They were Alabama

699
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: National Air National Guard pilots, straight up Americans who were

700
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: flying a bombing mission over Cuban now at this point

701
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: in this botched Bay of Pigs invasion, and they got

702
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: shot down, were killed and captured. Their bodies were captured

703
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: by Castro who basically paraded them around Cuba for the

704
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: international press saying this is an American look, the Americans

705
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: are bombing, and America denied. They denied, um ordering or

706
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: having these Americans bomb Cuba until the nineties. It was

707
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: a real disgrace for America's government for decades. Yeah, Castro

708
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: recovered the body of Captain Thomas Willard ray Um, and

709
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: the only reason it came out was because it was

710
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: declassified in the nineties, at which time the sea His body,

711
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: by the way, was returned to his family by Cuba

712
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, and then when it was declassified

713
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: in the nineties, ray was awarded the CIA's highest honor

714
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: of the Intelligence Star, which is just almost even more

715
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: shameful to kind of just slap uh an award on

716
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: this guy that you denied, you know, even sending him

717
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: to his death for you know, however many decades. So

718
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: it was a real one of the more shameful moments

719
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: in in US political and military history. Yeah, because they

720
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: went for a decade saying, no, this guy just went rogue.

721
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: He he um, he went rogue, and his family was like,

722
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: they he did not do that, stop lying, and they

723
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: finally did after years. But yeah, it was it was

724
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: a big, big black eye on them on America for sure.

725
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: But even before that, the whole Bay of Pigs fiasco

726
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: was a black eye on America UM and the Kennedy

727
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: administration because by the time the UM the battle was

728
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: over at the Bay of Pigs UM, I think a

729
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: hundred and fourteen people had died among the brigade members

730
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: and Americans UM, but the rest, more than a thousand

731
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: were captured and kept alive, and eventually we're UM. I

732
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: think they were kept for a few years, but they

733
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: weren't executed. Everybody just expected Castro to execute them all publicly,

734
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: and he didn't. Uh. Instead, he decided to keep them

735
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: as basically political pawns, didn't he Yeah, they kept them

736
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: for twenty months uh, one thousand thirteen men, and eventually

737
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: they start negotiating for a trade through an American attorney,

738
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: James B. Donovan, And initially Castro said, I'll tell you

739
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: what I'll give them in back for five hundred tractors,

740
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: and I guess somebody on the Cuban side said it's

741
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: not enough, man, like they're really really rich. And he said,

742
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: all right, how about twenty eight million dollars And then

743
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: someone said that's still not enough. We can take him

744
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: for a lot more. They eventually settled on fifty three

745
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: million dollars uh. In food and medical aid, which was

746
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: raised by private and corporate donations, and they made that swap.

747
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: And uh, I think Shakavara Um, who was Castro's sort

748
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: of right hand man at the time, thank the United

749
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: States very publicly and said, you know it, because of

750
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: this trade, because of all this money and aid and food,

751
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: you have have equaled the playing ground here and now

752
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: we are America's equal. We are not in a grief

753
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: little country any longer. And uh, that was a big,

754
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: big deal. That was a lot of um. That was

755
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: an influx of cash and and uh and food and

756
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: medicine that Cuba really needed at the time. So it

757
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: was it's like injury on our insult on top of

758
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: injury after this basically, yeah, and not only that, the attack,

759
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: the fact that Castro offended off attack, and then the

760
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: fact that Castro negotiated another fifty three million dollars in

761
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: aid from the attack helped Castro really solidify his power there.

762
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: So like um, he might have been shaky at some

763
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: point before the Bay of Pigs, he was not. Afterwards.

764
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: He was a beloved leader who showed that he could

765
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: and would defend Cuba. It also drove him toward Kruscheff

766
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: if he had been on the fence about it before,

767
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: he went full throated, uh buddy with the Soviets afterward,

768
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: and then also on our side, just the huge again

769
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: Black Eye gave America internationally on the world stage. But

770
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: also the Kennedy administration just looked like fools and also

771
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: weasels um. It drove JFK and his brother, Bobby Kennedy

772
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: um to find another way to show that they were

773
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: tough on communism. And a lot of people point to

774
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: us going into Vietnam looking at Vietnam is the next

775
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: place to stand up to communism. That that came directly

776
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: from the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion. That's

777
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: rights and learning. No, not at all. Uh So that's

778
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: it for the Bay of Pigs. There's a lot more

779
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: to it. It was one of the more chronicled episodes

780
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: in American history. So if you like this, well go

781
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: read more about it. And since I said read more

782
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: about it, I think Chuck is time for a listener mail.

783
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this you me and L. S. D. Hey, guys,

784
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you both for bringing such great

785
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: entertainment to my ears. I've been listening only for a

786
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: few months, but I'm able to listen to several episodes

787
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: a day while I work, so over the last couple

788
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: of weeks, guys have been sort of messing around with

789
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: micro dosing LSD and magic mushrooms, and it has been

790
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: years since my last full blown LSD trip. Well, last weekend,

791
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to take a full amount of

792
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: LSD see where it took me. Oftentimes, there's an overwhelming

793
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: feeling in the body just before the psychoactive part takes

794
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: place for me, which sort of allows you, or allows

795
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: me to gauge how you how the trip is going

796
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: to go. Well, this particular time, the feeling in my

797
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: body told me that I was going to have a

798
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: bad time and lose my ability to govern where my

799
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: thoughts meander. So I put on an episode of Stuff

800
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 1: You Should Know and listen to you both talk about

801
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: Schoolhouse Rock, which included the interview with Bob Nastanovich from Pavement,

802
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: which was wonderful. Listening to you both talk really helped

803
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: guide me through the initial peak of my LSD trip,

804
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: which set the tone for the rest of my day,

805
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: and it turned out great. You're both so level headed,

806
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: and kind and spirit, and I just want to say

807
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: thank you all caps for being who you are. You're

808
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: truly both role models for me and the more I

809
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 1: listen to you, the better human I become. So once again,

810
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: thanks and that is from Mike Artinian. That's really amazing, Mike,

811
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: thanks for that. I feel like Chuck. When we were

812
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: recording that, we kept saying one another during the ad break, like, wow,

813
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: people are gonna love tripping on this one. I think so.

814
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: And I even asked Mike, I said, you know, I

815
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: cannot read your name and he went, now, man, read it,

816
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 1: read it and weep. That's right. Well, thanks again, Mike.

817
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: That's pretty great. Glad that you came back down. Uh

818
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: And if you want to be like Mike and send

819
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: us an email, you can send it off to Stuff

820
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you should know

821
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works for

822
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio is at the iHeart

823
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

824
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: favorite shows.