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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Right now, though,

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Speaker 1: I want to turn our attention to the bond market.

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Speaker 1: At JP Morgan strateg just Jay Berry said a note

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Speaker 1: today that low US long term yields maybe the quote

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Speaker 1: new normal. Here to give us his take on this

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Speaker 1: is Bob Sinch, global strategist for Amirst Pierpont Securities. Bob,

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Speaker 1: do you agree? Well, you know, I think there's relative

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Speaker 1: to what but but certainly I think the profile um

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Speaker 1: of of longer term yields probably lower than some of

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Speaker 1: us who have been around the markets for forty years

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Speaker 1: or so would would think are normal. And I think

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Speaker 1: part of that is demographic. Right. We have a lot

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Speaker 1: of us baby boomers who are reaching retirement age. We're

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Speaker 1: looking for income, we tend to invest in bonds and

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Speaker 1: uh and I think that that has changed the dynamics However,

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Speaker 1: I think the supply demand situation is going to change

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Speaker 1: a lot in two thousand and eighteen. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Treasury last year began in small steps reducing its

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Speaker 1: balance sheet. By the fourth quarter of this year, they're

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Speaker 1: going to be reducing their balance sheet by fifty billion

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Speaker 1: dollars of securities a month, you know, split between treasuries

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Speaker 1: and mortgages. And that's a pretty substantial amount of extra

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Speaker 1: supply on top of what looked like they'll be widening

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Speaker 1: budget deficits. So I think the supply dynamic, supply demand

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Speaker 1: dynamics will be changing pretty significantly this year. We think

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Speaker 1: inflation picks up a little bit this year, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the Fed moves four times. You add that up and

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Speaker 1: we come up with a tenure um treasury yields close

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Speaker 1: to three fifty at the end of the year. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a pretty big projection of three fifty. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking right now, and currently the ten year treasury yields

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Speaker 1: is uh to So that would be more than a

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Speaker 1: percentage point increase from where we are today. Um. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that this is going to be a violent

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Speaker 1: unwind or do you think it's just going to be

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Speaker 1: gradual throughout the year because that matters the path of this. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I do, and I think it's it's probably we'll have

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Speaker 1: little spasms. We certainly had a little one yesterday um

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Speaker 1: as the market start of the year. But I think

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Speaker 1: it will be fairly gradual because I think the markets

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Speaker 1: are going to be dragged along sort of kicking and screaming, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, with FED rate hikes, and each time they hike,

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Speaker 1: the markets will go like okay, but is that it

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Speaker 1: for a while? Um? You know, my colleagues, Steve Stanley

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Speaker 1: thinks not. Um. He does think we'll see core inflation

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Speaker 1: and add or very close to two percent by the

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Speaker 1: end of the year. And not only a FED that

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Speaker 1: that wants to normalize rates, but also a an e

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Speaker 1: c B that we think ends their asset purchase program

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Speaker 1: at the end of September, and the b O J,

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Speaker 1: which probably at some point later in the year, perhaps

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Speaker 1: after a leadership change, says enough is enough. We just

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Speaker 1: own enough j G B s, we known e T S,

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Speaker 1: we own a lot of everything in the Japanese markets,

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Speaker 1: and it's really time for that to come to an end.

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Speaker 1: So again, I think balance sheet reduction by the FED

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Speaker 1: and a withdrawal from asset purchases by foreign central banks

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Speaker 1: really changes the supply demand dynamics pretty substantially. Bob Sinch,

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Speaker 1: can you speak about the yield curve and perhaps help

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Speaker 1: us to understand why talking about the yield curve might

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Speaker 1: just be a waste of time. Yeah. I wouldn't go

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Speaker 1: as far as saying it's a waste of time, but

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Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot of exaggeration that goes on. Um. Look,

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Speaker 1: I've you know, I've done a lot of work on

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Speaker 1: the shape of the yield curve and and its ability

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Speaker 1: to forecast the economy over you know, the last four

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Speaker 1: or five decades, and um, you know, there are times

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Speaker 1: when it's a reasonably good indicator. Normally that's when the

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Speaker 1: curve becomes very inverted. But for example, we had a

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Speaker 1: period where the yield curve, the two tens spread that

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Speaker 1: everyone likes to focus on, began declining substantially and and

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Speaker 1: actually turned negative um by you know, to ear And

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Speaker 1: yet um, real GDP growth didn't peak until the first

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Speaker 1: quarter on a year of a year basis, until the

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Speaker 1: first quarter of two thousand. So number one, there can

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Speaker 1: be very variable lags between when the yield curve flattens

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Speaker 1: or inverts two s tens and when the economy adjusts.

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Speaker 1: The other one is is whether the yield curve really

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Speaker 1: tells us what it used to tell us. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things things that Steve Stanley and I have

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Speaker 1: looked at is actually comparing the real Fed funds rate

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Speaker 1: adjusted for core inflation to the two tens spread, and

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Speaker 1: you go back from five through through two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five very very actually through two thousand ten, very tight correlation,

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Speaker 1: which is really broken down in the last three years.

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Speaker 1: So now you have a two tens spread of about

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Speaker 1: fifty three basis points, which is actually flatter than the

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Speaker 1: average for the last thirty years of one point one.

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Speaker 1: Whereas the real Fed funds rate is still zero, it's

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Speaker 1: still sharply lower. So if I look at the two

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Speaker 1: of those in the break and the correlation, I say

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Speaker 1: to myself, well, which one seems like it's correct, in

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Speaker 1: which one might be distorted. I think it's the yield

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Speaker 1: curve that's distorted because we've had so much purchasing by

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Speaker 1: by global central banks, and in fact, our view is

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Speaker 1: that the stance of monetary policy is still very accommodated

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Speaker 1: with a real FED funds rate that's virtually zero. Bob

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Speaker 1: since thank you very much for being with us, global

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Speaker 1: strategist for AMERSH pure Pont Securities talking about the yield

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Speaker 1: curve and what it means for the future of the

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Speaker 1: economy by the end of the century. Database company Zillo

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Speaker 1: Group estimates that almost half a million Miami homes could

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Speaker 1: be literally underwater, that is, with actual H two O

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Speaker 1: covering them. Here to tell us how this is changing

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Speaker 1: the real estate market in that region is Christopher Flavelle.

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Speaker 1: He's a climate policy reporter for Bloomberg CA Newes and

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Speaker 1: comes to us from Washington, d C. Christopher, can you

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Speaker 1: just give us a sense of how seriously home buyers

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Speaker 1: in Florida, I'm particularly the south to Florida are taking

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Speaker 1: this threat right now? You know, it's it is really

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Speaker 1: hard to tell. I think there's a lot of homebuyers

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Speaker 1: who just either are not aware of it or are

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Speaker 1: aware of it and don't worry about it. They say

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Speaker 1: it won't hit me. But the trend that we're writing

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Speaker 1: on is there's a growing number and still a minority,

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Speaker 1: but it's a larger and large minority saying I'm aware

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Speaker 1: of this because I can't ignore it. They've got what's

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Speaker 1: called sunny day floods in South Florida. We're out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: On a sunny day, you'll have water coming up through

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Speaker 1: the limestone through the streets, causing a huge headache. And

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Speaker 1: then you get storms like Irma. And we were a

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Speaker 1: piece looking at how Irma reminded people that living in

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Speaker 1: this beautiful part of the country also has consequences. And eventually,

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Speaker 1: no one knows when, but eventually those consequences, as they

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Speaker 1: get worse, we'll start to drive down home values. No

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Speaker 1: one knows when that will happen, but I think the

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Speaker 1: signals are starting that that it could be soon. Christopher,

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Speaker 1: what about the idea of going to higher ground? That

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Speaker 1: might be a challenge in Florida, But there are things

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Speaker 1: called apartment houses. Some people have actually moved from their

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Speaker 1: homes into those apartment houses. But even that doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to help. Yeah. I spoke to one homeowner who has

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Speaker 1: sold his home in a lovely part of South Florida

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Speaker 1: called Coral Gables a few years back. Worried that eventually

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Speaker 1: property values would fall, and he wanted to get up

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Speaker 1: before then, so he bought a smaller condo. He downsized.

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Speaker 1: He's on a high ridge in Biscayne Bay and lo

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Speaker 1: and behold, his building was just throttled by by IRMA.

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Speaker 1: And he said he's gonna leave Florida altogether because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't want the physical insecurity or the financial insecurity of

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Speaker 1: knowing that whatever money he puts into property could be

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Speaker 1: wiped out if enough other homebuyers say I also don't

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Speaker 1: want this headache and leave before he does. So you're

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Speaker 1: into this sort of preemptive cycle where people are thinking

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Speaker 1: about leaving the market now, even though climate change is

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Speaker 1: not yet a terrible thing, just annoying, but they're worried

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Speaker 1: that if they don't leave, they might get stuck in

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Speaker 1: a downward market, and so they're leaving now and others

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Speaker 1: might follow them. So Christopher, that they seem to be

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Speaker 1: in the minority, because right now developers are still building.

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Speaker 1: I was just in Florida. Still a lot of building

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Speaker 1: going on. Uh. And frankly, the new tax law will

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Speaker 1: only push more people or the theory is down to

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Speaker 1: Florida and other low tax states from higher tax states.

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Speaker 1: That's already happened. So at what point are we going

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Speaker 1: to hit a tipping point and how much does the

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Speaker 1: acceleration and development given some of these climate change effects,

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Speaker 1: how much does that exacerbate the potential effects. Well, it

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Speaker 1: seems like the one of the most interesting parlor games

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Speaker 1: in South Florida right now is that debate over just

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Speaker 1: what the trigger will be, whether it is another big storm,

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Speaker 1: whether it's on the change in policy now. Last year,

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Speaker 1: the House Representatives looked at a measure that would have

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Speaker 1: required a higher flood insurance rates for most cases and

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Speaker 1: be disclosure by people selling their homes of the flood

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Speaker 1: risk facing those particular homes. Either those changes neither which

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Speaker 1: became law, but if they became and the Senate will

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Speaker 1: take them up at some point this year, those could

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Speaker 1: have a real downward effect. Another thing could be if

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Speaker 1: people's attitudes change. It's so hard to measure the psychology

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Speaker 1: of climate change. At some point you could flip where

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Speaker 1: the average person Seal Florida says, I don't care about this,

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Speaker 1: and then bang, they wake up and something happens and

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Speaker 1: they do care, and and knowing when that might happen

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Speaker 1: is just impossible. Well, one one one interesting part of

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Speaker 1: the story that you wrote was looking at a man

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Speaker 1: named Albert Slap, whose business is surging in the wake

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Speaker 1: of increasing fears about flooding and climate change. Can you

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Speaker 1: give us a sense of his perspective and how this

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Speaker 1: could be one of the signs you were talking about

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Speaker 1: that attitudes might be changing a bit. Yeah, he runs

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Speaker 1: sort of a boutique firm that will give you very

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Speaker 1: tailored flood risk information on a property if you're thinking

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Speaker 1: of buying it, if you're an insurance company, if you're

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Speaker 1: a lender thinking of is shoing a mortgage, he'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what the likely flood risk for that particular home

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Speaker 1: or parcelor land might be. And he said, since irma,

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Speaker 1: his business is just on fire. And I think he's

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Speaker 1: right in saying that what's good for him isn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: good for the market, because the more you'll pay attention

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Speaker 1: to this, the more they buy or don't buy a

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Speaker 1: home based on risk and not just how pretty it is.

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Speaker 1: The more people will say, you know what, it's lovely here,

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Speaker 1: but these title floods will just get worse, These storms

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Speaker 1: will get worse, and the seas will come up. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And so eventually there's some intangible trade off that none

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Speaker 1: of us can understand. But it happens inside the head

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Speaker 1: of every potential homebuyers saying is it worth the risk

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Speaker 1: to live somewhere this gorgeous? And that that calculation is

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Speaker 1: impossible to predict, but it will eventually flip over to

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Speaker 1: probably not. Well, Christopher just quickly, he says that there

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Speaker 1: was a quote of a story where he talks about

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Speaker 1: how when you have fish swimming in your driveway, it

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Speaker 1: is not an amenity like a swimming pool. Not everyone

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Speaker 1: wants fish in their driveway, but you know, if the

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Speaker 1: view is lovely, maybe maybe you'll suck it up for

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Speaker 1: a little while. Uh, eventually, probably that's not the kind

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Speaker 1: of market you want to in. Christopher Flavel with the

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Speaker 1: outlook on fish in your driveway, Climate policy reporter for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News, coming to us from Washington, d C. The

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Speaker 1: tax bill has been passed. President Trump has signed it.

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Speaker 1: The question now is what is it and what will

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Speaker 1: the effect be on real estate markets, particularly in big

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Speaker 1: cities that have notoriously high tax rates like New York.

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Speaker 1: Here to explain to us his vision of it is

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Speaker 1: Seth Pinsky, Executive vice president and investment manager of the

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Speaker 1: r x R Metropolitan Emerging Market strategy for our x

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Speaker 1: R realty in New York City. Seth You're quoted in

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Speaker 1: a story in the Real Deal saying, this is a

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Speaker 1: dramatic new reality that New York City is going to

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Speaker 1: be operating under. In many ways, this Hacks bill was

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Speaker 1: deliberately and maliciously designed to hurt this region. How much

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Speaker 1: is it going to hurt it with respect to real estate?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's very hard to say. Actually so disturbing

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Speaker 1: about the tax bill. In addition to the fact that

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Speaker 1: it was designed to harm this region and regions like it,

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Speaker 1: is the fact that I'm fairly certain that very few

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Speaker 1: of the people who voted for the bill, let alone

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Speaker 1: the person who signed the bill, actually know what's in

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Speaker 1: it um. And it's likely that there are elements in

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Speaker 1: it um that are going to be quite harmful, especially

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Speaker 1: to homeowners in high cost suburbs areas with very high

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Speaker 1: property tax um. But there also could be parts of

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Speaker 1: the tax bill that could be very beneficial to the

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Speaker 1: city's economy. And I think it's gonna be one of

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Speaker 1: these things that we're just gonna have to watch play

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Speaker 1: out to see what the net impact is. But there

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Speaker 1: will certainly be winners and losers in this region. Talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the connection between infrastructure and real

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Speaker 1: estate development and how it has evolved, let's say in

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Speaker 1: big urban areas like New York or other metropolitan region. Well,

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Speaker 1: infrastructure is really the key to affordability UM in any region.

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Speaker 1: UM In a place like New York, where more and

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Speaker 1: more people are trying to squeeze into the same amount

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Speaker 1: of area, the only way really that you can lower

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Speaker 1: costs is by building more. And as we've seen in

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Speaker 1: the city over the last several years, when you try

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Speaker 1: to increase development in the same small number of locations,

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Speaker 1: you end up hitting political roadblocks. People don't want to

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Speaker 1: have a hundred story towers next to them. So if

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Speaker 1: you're going to address that, you really need infrastructure to

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Speaker 1: spread people out. The idea is not so much to

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Speaker 1: create sprawl. That is a recipe for for significant problems

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Speaker 1: that we've all seen in the suburbs. But the idea

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Speaker 1: is to use infrastructure to make it so that people

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Speaker 1: can live farther away by distance but still be close

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Speaker 1: to the city in terms of time. But having said that,

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Speaker 1: that's an issue that devil's not just New York, but

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Speaker 1: I think of Silicon Valley where people's commutes have been

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Speaker 1: extended to to hours, in some cases three hours, and

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Speaker 1: they're driving. Uh, you have Los Angeles the same kind

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Speaker 1: of situation Atlanta, huge traffic snarls. Is there a better

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Speaker 1: way to think about how to invest money in real

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Speaker 1: estate so that we get the outcome that doesn't involve

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Speaker 1: sitting in a two and a half hour commute each way? Sure. UM.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that we at r XR have

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Speaker 1: been doing is focusing on suburban transit lines, looking at

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Speaker 1: rail nooads around which in many cases you find acres

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Speaker 1: and acres of surface parking lots, even though they're easily

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Speaker 1: accessible to everything that is beneficial about New York City.

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Speaker 1: For example, UM, we worked with the City of New

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Speaker 1: Rochelle to entitle about eleven million square feet of development

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Speaker 1: in downtown New Rochelle. The travel time from New Rochelle

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Speaker 1: by Metro North into Grand Central is actually shorter than

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Speaker 1: the travel time from my neighborhood in Brooklyn Park Slope

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Speaker 1: to Grand Central. So these are areas that are incredibly

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Speaker 1: trans accessible, that have the infrastructure today, but that we're

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Speaker 1: simply not taking advantage of. You know, I'm struck by

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Speaker 1: the fact that actual transactions sales of used homes in

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Speaker 1: New York City declined in the fourth quarter, and I

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Speaker 1: believe where the lowest and is two thousand and eleven.

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Speaker 1: A lot of this had to do with the uncertainty

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Speaker 1: around the tax plan. What the mortgage intrasductibility might look like, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what the salt deduction might look like. I'm just wondering,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially as you see development continuing in this region.

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Speaker 1: You know, is this uncertainty that could basically send values

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Speaker 1: down substantially in a way that people are not expecting

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Speaker 1: right now. Well, it's hard to imagine that the loss

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Speaker 1: of deductibility of property tax um even more than income taxes,

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Speaker 1: is not going to have an impact on the price

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Speaker 1: of homes, especially in the suburbs, where property taxes in

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Speaker 1: many communities are twenty thirty plus thousand dollars a year um.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, though, there are larger economic forces

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Speaker 1: at work um. And you can imagine a world in which,

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Speaker 1: through the Trump administration and what the Republican Congress is doing,

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Speaker 1: an industry like Wall Street were to boom, and in

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Speaker 1: that case, that would have a positive impact on values.

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Speaker 1: And that's not necessarily a good thing for society. It's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing for society, but the impact

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Speaker 1: is really very hard to evaluate at this point, um.

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Speaker 1: And again, until we start to really be able to

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Speaker 1: unpack this bill, which was passed under the cover of darkness,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to say whether it's it's

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Speaker 1: net effect is going to be good or bad. But

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Speaker 1: right now commercial real estate investors seem to be pretty

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Speaker 1: excited about it. Yeah, Look, there are things in the bill, um,

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Speaker 1: maybe accidentally, maybe done on purpose, given the profession of

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Speaker 1: our president that clearly we're designed to help the real

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Speaker 1: estate industry, and so from the real estate industry's perspective,

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Speaker 1: those changes are going to be positive. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, the success or failure of the

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Speaker 1: real estate industry is really driven by the success or

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Speaker 1: failure of the market in which the real estate is located.

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Speaker 1: And again, until we see how all the different forces

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Speaker 1: play out, it's gonna be hard to say exactly how

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Speaker 1: it's going to impact our market. Just to go back

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Speaker 1: to the New Rochelle example, because you put together a

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Speaker 1: group of interested parties, investors, plus the city, this is

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Speaker 1: a part of a larger redevelopment. Is that where we're

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Speaker 1: going to see in more of these I want to say,

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Speaker 1: satellite communities, that they're going to be major redevelopments all

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Speaker 1: along the coast and really in every place that's centered

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Speaker 1: that uses a big urban area as a center. It's

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Speaker 1: a good question. And what's interesting is that historically the

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Speaker 1: suburbs were actually quite averse to high density development UM.

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Speaker 1: Many of the people who moved to suburbs moved to

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Speaker 1: the suburbs intentionally to get away from everything urban. UM.

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Speaker 1: What's been happening over the last couple of decades, though,

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Speaker 1: is that UM the urban areas have become more and

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Speaker 1: more successful. They're especially attractive to young professionals and aging

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Speaker 1: baby boomers and empty nesters, and that's made it difficult

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Speaker 1: for the suburbs to attract the businesses that are looking

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Speaker 1: for that workforce. That in turn has undermined the tax

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Speaker 1: basis of these communities. And so you are starting to

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Speaker 1: see an alignment now that didn't exist in the past

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Speaker 1: between these communities and the development community. And the key

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Speaker 1: I think to being successful in these communities is not

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Speaker 1: coming in and simply imposing a vision on the community,

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Speaker 1: but working with the vision to understand what the community.

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Speaker 1: With the community, I should say, to understand what the

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Speaker 1: community's vision is and then to to help to realize

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Speaker 1: that vision in a way that's collaborative. Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for being with a. Seth Pinsky, Executive vice president,

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Speaker 1: investment manager of the r XR Metropolitan Emerging Market Strategy.

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Speaker 1: Trading is relatively muted, and there's a question about whether

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Speaker 1: this just because everyone's getting back to work and doesn't really,

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Speaker 1: uh I feel like doing too much quite yet, or

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Speaker 1: is this because Miffed two just went into effect today.

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Speaker 1: Here to talk about those regulations, which are the biggest

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Speaker 1: regulatory overhaul in ten years for Europe is Trista Kelly,

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Speaker 1: Markets structure team for Bloomberg who joins us from London. Trista,

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Speaker 1: how much can we really tell about how smoothly Miffed

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Speaker 1: two is going at this point, given the fact that

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Speaker 1: a lot of the biggest venues are not yet forced

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Speaker 1: to be in compliance. Yeah, that's a good question. I think.

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Speaker 1: One of the the things that traders have been saying

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Speaker 1: is there is a cap coming on dark pools and

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Speaker 1: that does not kick in until next week, and so

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Speaker 1: once that dark Pool cap comes in, then we're gonna

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Speaker 1: see uh, probably see some flow start to scatter around

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Speaker 1: all these new trading venues and that might affect liquidity

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Speaker 1: as well. Just back up for one second. Dark pool

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Speaker 1: cap can you just explain what that is? Sure? Basically

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Speaker 1: that EU is saying there's way too much trading. That's

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Speaker 1: that's happening in the dark right now. So with MiFID,

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Speaker 1: let's cap or limit the amount that can go into

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Speaker 1: dark pools. And a lot of these dark pools, uh,

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Speaker 1: some of them are run by exchanges themselves. For example,

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Speaker 1: the London Stock Exchange has one called Turquoise, so they're saying,

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Speaker 1: let's get that onto that trading onto liquid lit lit exchanges.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, and uh so, but those limits will not

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Speaker 1: kick in until next week. And a lot of banks

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Speaker 1: are saying, okay, well we can have our alternative trading

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Speaker 1: venue called a systematic internalizer. This is getting geeky very quickly,

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Speaker 1: I apologize, No, this is what it is. And you

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Speaker 1: know this is a fIF page bill we should say,

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Speaker 1: with more than two billion dollars of expense put into

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Speaker 1: compliance with it. Lots of geeky sections, but they have

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Speaker 1: a significant impact, please go on, right. So, so the

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Speaker 1: biggest banks are saying, okay, well we have these new

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Speaker 1: venues called systematic internalizers because we won't be able to

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Speaker 1: use what's called a crossing network anymore. So everybody's expecting, oh,

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Speaker 1: these a lot of this flow once these dark pool

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Speaker 1: caps kick in, is going to go to these systematic internalizers.

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Speaker 1: Systematic internalizers are not subject to dark pool caps, and

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Speaker 1: let's face it, once you get over the standard market size,

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Speaker 1: they can go pretty much as dark as they want.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons, one of the many

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Speaker 1: reasons a lot of people are saying these big bulge

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Speaker 1: bracket banks are going to do so well out of

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Speaker 1: this trista. Do you get the impression or maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: you have another thought about it that the people who

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Speaker 1: put together these regulations do they understand who actually works

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Speaker 1: in the financial industry and how they think. Well, if

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Speaker 1: we if you read our our top live blog today,

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of traders complaining both on Twitter

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere. I mean it's not new, They've been complaining

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Speaker 1: for a long time, but that's I mean, that's what

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Speaker 1: market market traders do, and regulators obviously say, well, come on,

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Speaker 1: we're just trying to make things more transparent and better

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Speaker 1: for the little guy. You know, there's a yin and

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Speaker 1: yang here and what it remains to be seen if

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Speaker 1: you know which has the better point. But I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: there are some unintended consequences and some big loopholes. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, I will add the U s SEC has

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Speaker 1: a totally different rules than miffed when it comes to

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Speaker 1: how research has paid for. So these types of things

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Speaker 1: are gonna have to be worked out at some point.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why people are saying, well, what about

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Speaker 1: miffid three And yeah, it's it's kind of giving me

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Speaker 1: a headache already, Dave, Just real quick trading usually is

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Speaker 1: muted at this point in the year, correct, Like, it's

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Speaker 1: not an anomaly that we're just seeing light volumes right

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Speaker 1: now or we can't attribute that pure it tends to be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I will note that if you look at

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Speaker 1: trading in NYC and NASDAC listed shares UH ninety five

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Speaker 1: million or so in the first hour up roughly from yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Some things are gearing up for a new year, and

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Speaker 1: that's playing out in terms of the kind of numbers

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Speaker 1: we're seeing. Dave Wilson, Thank you very much, Bloomberg Stocks

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Speaker 1: Commas send David e mail at d Wilson at Bloomberg

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00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: dot net and sign up for his daily free email newsletter.

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Speaker 1: It will make you a smarter investor. Our thanks also

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Speaker 1: to trist To Kelly, market Structure team leader for Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg p m L podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox, I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo.

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Speaker 1: It's one before the podcast. You can always catch us

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Speaker 1: worldwide on Bloomberg Radio