1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 3 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 4 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that 6 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 7 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, 8 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world, 10 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mintur. Welcome 11 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. 12 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: This is our special event crafting justice, empowering autism and 13 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: mental health through legislation. Joining us today is Senator Christine Cohen, 14 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: who champions mental health in Connecticut through bipartisan laws expanding 15 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: crisis services and care access. Denise Paley also joins us, 16 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: who collaborates with Senator Cohen to advocate for mental health 17 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: law reforms in Connecticut. They have a wealth of information 18 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: to give us because of their passion for what they do. 19 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. 20 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: Well, good to see you again. 21 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, thanks for doing this and raising awareness on 22 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 3: all things mental health. I had a chance to look 23 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 3: through your podcasts and listen a bit, so thank you 24 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: for what you're doing. 25 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: Well, it's my pleasure. Thanks. My first question is as 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: a senator, what led you to get into the journey 27 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: of helping the mental health community. 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean this is something I've always cared 29 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: about a great deal about and my mother is a 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 3: psychiatric social worker, so I grew up talking about mental 31 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 3: health and knowing the importance of mental health care for folks, 32 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 3: including myself. I've had my own struggle with mental health 33 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 3: in terms of panic disorder and depression, and so I've 34 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 3: been very open about that now that I've become a 35 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: legislator and working on state policy. I've known Denise for 36 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: a number of years. Actually, Ellis worked on my first 37 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: campaign when he was in high school, and unfortunately, when 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: tragedy struck, I was able to work with Denise on 39 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 3: some matters that where we saw some gaps in the 40 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: system at that time, which was particular to crisis intervention training. Also, 41 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: we share a mutual friend who produced an incredible documentary 42 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: on crisis intervention training, and so that's what started us 43 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: down this road. And as you know, Denise will share 44 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: her story. 45 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure, yes, she's been on this podcast and told 46 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: the complete story of how it happened. 47 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 3: You know, things progressed and Ellis was in the Department 48 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: of Correction system within the state of Connecticut. It was 49 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: evident that mental health care was lacking due to resources 50 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 3: and or their issues, and so we really wanted to 51 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: set out to see if we could improve upon that. 52 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: So you're in the Senate. Now, with that said, you 53 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: have passed a bill, then you have to deal with 54 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: the House. Now, I was speaking with a representative from Iowa. 55 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: They passed a bill unanimously, then it went to the 56 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: Senate and it got killed. Now, with that said, have 57 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: you ever had any situations like that that you've had 58 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: to deal with as well? 59 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 60 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: I mean this is something that I'm all too familiar with. 61 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 3: It's you know, a lot of times we set out 62 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: at the beginning of session with high hopes that we'll 63 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: be able to get a full proposal passed and over 64 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: the finish line, and as we go through session, it 65 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: becomes you know, a time for negotiating and seeing what 66 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: we can in fact get over. 67 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: That proverbial finish line. 68 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: Oftentimes, you know, we'll have to make some significant compromises 69 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 3: or we don't have any luck and we say, okay, 70 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 3: we're going to come at this again. I think we've 71 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 3: made incredible strides, particular to crisis intervention training over the 72 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 3: years that we've. 73 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 4: Been working on it. 74 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: I think we've also made some strides with respect to 75 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 3: mental health in prisons and getting more folks staff there. 76 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 4: But we have a long way to go, and that's 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 4: become quite evident. 78 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 3: And so you know, we set out for some policy 79 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 3: this past session to improve upon that, and we didn't 80 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 3: quite get everything we wanted over the finish line. While 81 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: there is some funding pertaining to mental health care in 82 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 3: our prison system, there's not nearly enough. 83 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought up that word compromise. I 84 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: was speaking with a legislator. He brought a bill, and 85 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: the first thing they said to him, you know, you're 86 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: going to have to compromise. And they hadn't even read 87 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: the bill yet. So how do you get around that 88 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: kind of thought process? Compromise is understandable. Sometimes it can 89 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: be a very big thing. Unfortunately, sometimes you wind up 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: giving up some things that you shouldn't have and then 91 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: when you start looking at things five ten years later, 92 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: you realize, while we compromised on something that we probably 93 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: just should not have done. 94 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think it's a balance, right. 95 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 3: I mean, some of these bills and policy changes require 96 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of money, quite frankly, and so 97 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 3: you're also working as another added layer of complication because 98 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: you're working on a state budget. Everybody thinks their cause 99 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 3: is the cause that should be funded, and so you're 100 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 3: fighting that battle as well. So saying, you know, we 101 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: need X million dollars in order to employ fifty more 102 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,679 Speaker 3: mental health professionals across our prison system, and somebody else 103 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 3: is saying, well, you know, we need these important social 104 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 3: services for DSS, or we need more addiction services. All 105 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: of these things are really important, and I'm using examples 106 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: that are closely interrelated because you can see like we 107 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 3: should all be working together and we all want these 108 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: things which are so important when it comes to mental 109 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 3: health and addiction services. But oftentimes it comes down to 110 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: sharpening the pencil and really figuring out what we can 111 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 3: actually provide, and that requires saying, Okay, well a little 112 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: bit going to go to this this year, and a 113 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: little bit is going to go to that, and so 114 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: those are some big compromises that we need to make 115 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 3: policy wise. I think there's policies that don't involve funding. 116 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 4: Those tend to. 117 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 3: Be typically a little bit easier because there's not that 118 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: added layer of complication as I mentioned. However, depending on 119 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 3: what the policy is, something that seems like a no 120 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 3: brainer to you and I may be very difficult for 121 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: somebody else to wrap their heads around. And particularly when 122 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: you're talking about mental care in prison, there's still a 123 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: lot of misunderstanding just around mental health in general. We 124 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 3: know there's still a tremendous stigma associated with mental health, 125 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: and when you add in incarcerated individuals, there's still a 126 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: lack of compassion and lack of understanding, quite frankly, that 127 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: these are human beings that really should receive the level 128 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 3: of care that. 129 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 4: Every human being deserves. 130 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 3: And there's also tremendous amount of benefits to making sure 131 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 3: that this population is getting the mental health care. There's 132 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: an estimate in Connecticut that eighty percent of inmates need 133 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 3: some type of mental health care, and we are far 134 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: from providing that, and we want to do what we can. 135 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 3: There's tremendous benefits, including reducing recidivism and a safety for 136 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 3: our corrections officers, safety for other inmates, of course, and 137 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: this is something that is really has become. 138 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 4: Very important to me. 139 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 5: I know it's important to Denise as well. 140 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: Yes, I think you're absolutely correct there. Now, are you 141 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: like other states I've spoken with where your job is 142 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: like a full time part time That's correct. 143 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 3: We are not in session right now, but as you 144 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: can see, I'm working and are is thinking about what 145 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: we can do moving forward. Your work changes when you're 146 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: not in session, but you're still working, always working. 147 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally get that. Now, as a senator, you 148 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: have to work with people like Denise that will come 149 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: to you and say, hey, we need these changes. Now, 150 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: this question is actually a good question for the both 151 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: of you. How do you find it as a senator 152 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: working with people like Denise that come to you and say, hey, look, 153 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: we need some changes in our state. And then let's 154 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: flip this around and put it in a perspective from 155 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: Denise on working with a senator trying to get those changes. 156 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: The good thing is that this particular senator has the 157 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: knowledge of it. There's a lot of senators and legislators 158 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: out here that don't. So my question is how do 159 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: you cross that bridge. 160 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: I'll start out, and then I'll pass it to Denise. 161 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: I'll say, in our situation, I think is unique because 162 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 3: Denise and I are friends, and so I can speak 163 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: very frankly with her. These are oftentimes very emotional issues 164 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: and can be difficult. So, like I said, everybody has 165 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 3: their cause and they want to take up their cause, 166 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: and they want people to hear them and understand them 167 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: and understand the importance of what it is they're trying 168 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: to get done, and so it can be really difficult 169 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: if perhaps the person receiving that information is in receiving 170 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: it with the same passion or compassion that's necessary, or 171 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: the person providing the information feels that it deserves And similarly, 172 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 3: you know, we are they feeling like they're being heard 173 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: and that they're going to see movement, and then once 174 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: they are being heard and seeing movement, it can be 175 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: very frustrating. As you've just alluded to, you know, lots 176 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: of changes, lots of movement throughout the session, twists and turns, 177 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: it's sort of like a roller coaster, and sometimes you 178 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 3: have to strategize and tell the individual who's advocating that 179 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: you need to dial it back strategically in order to 180 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 3: move something forward. 181 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 4: And that's a difficult discussion. 182 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: To have, especially telling them to dial it back, because 183 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people do not understand the legislative process. 184 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Denise does understand it very well, but not 185 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 3: everybody does. 186 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: Right, The average person out there that just happens to 187 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: find themselves thrust into a situation that they weren't even 188 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: prepared for. They are just living their days, actually living 189 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: the normal, average American life. They don't follow legislation that 190 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: closely other than what they hear on TV or on 191 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: the news, so they do not understand the process and 192 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: how involved that it can get to. 193 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 4: That's right. 194 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Denise, Now what's it like from your perspective? 195 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: How is it to work with these senators and try 196 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 1: and get the laws changed to help. 197 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 2: So Well, there's a lot to say here. First of all, 198 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: I am very lucky to have Christine as my senator. 199 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: So I just want to point out that neither Judiciary, 200 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: Public Health, these committees that she's been advocating with to 201 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: push these laws forward are the committees that she is 202 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: technically assigned to. In addition to all of the work 203 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: that she does. She's taking all of this on and 204 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: has really just been a voice for marginalized groups of 205 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: people to get laws pushed through. So I don't know 206 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: that that would happen if my senator or somebody else. 207 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for that her willingness to listen and 208 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: to talk it through. One of the things I've noticed 209 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: is I can use the CAT Bill as an example. 210 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: So when we were working on the SAT build, when 211 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: I went and testified in front of the Legislature, it 212 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: happened to be at a time when we were moving 213 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: through COVID, so most people testifying did not go in 214 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: for a lot of people had stayed home and done 215 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 2: it over video. I did go in person, which allowed 216 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: me and it afforded me the opportunity to get a 217 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: lot of the legislators in the room one on one, 218 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 2: and you really listen to their side and their perspective. 219 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: The idea of making crisis intervention team training a lot 220 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: and mandatory was something that was really not endorsed before 221 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: bringing this spill forward and having the opportunity to talk 222 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: to people about the consequences down the road without that, 223 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: you know, on the side, helping them understand and just 224 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: you know, and listening to where they were coming from, 225 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: making the whole equation and makes sense. You know, when 226 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: you talk about DSS and mental health and homelessness and unemployment, 227 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: there is a thread that runs through all of it. 228 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: So a lot of these laws take money to enforce them, 229 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: but if you were to do the math at the 230 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: cost to society, they are well worse it. There is 231 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: a cost to not treating mental illness for those who 232 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: are living in incarceration from a human level of allowing 233 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: people to suffer, and the state of Connecticut has actually 234 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: been called out multiple times for allowing people to suffer, 235 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: for violating the A Amendment and by not offering mental 236 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 2: health services that people need. And then from a financial standpoint, 237 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: from a socioeconomic stand way, people are not being prepared 238 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 2: for a re entry while they're living in incarceration. 239 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: I think that's an important subject you just brought up. 240 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: Can you expand on that for our listeners. 241 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: Most people who are incrucerated, about ninety seven percent are 242 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: going to be released into the community. We risk them 243 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 2: coming right back into the DC, and it's just kind 244 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: of like a self fulfilling prophecy. We're not moving forward, 245 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: or people come out and there prepared to be employed 246 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: or find homes, or you know, we matriculate back into 247 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 2: society because their needs have never been met while they 248 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: really in incarceration. Incarceration is designed for rehabilitation now because 249 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: there are so there's such a strong need for mental 250 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: health services. It requires a sense of recovery for people 251 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 2: to come back and be productive when they re enter society. 252 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: And if those preparations aren't in place, you know, we're 253 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: doing everybody to service. Running the Department of Corrections is 254 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: very expensive. We may as well get our money as work. 255 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: This is how we choose as a socility to treat people. 256 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: Can you expand on other issues that you think need 257 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: to be addressed within that correctional system? 258 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: Staffing Staffing is a you just show in the Department 259 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: of Cruestions, hiring, getting corrections officers to stay in work, 260 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: and getting qualified mental health providers to stay and do 261 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: the work because they often feel like they're always pushing 262 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: against the tide. You know, they're always going upstream. So 263 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: to get anything accomplished, if we could invest a little 264 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: bit more into these services and get more quality and 265 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: mental health care. Everybody's role would go a little bit 266 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: more slowly. It would be safe for her people living 267 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: in incorucetration, but also safer for the correction's officers who 268 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: are not always trained to me, people who are not 269 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: thinking clearly or having them as a health episode. You know, 270 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: it's a skilled don't know how to deal with somebody 271 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: like that, and the training doesn't provide for that. There's 272 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: a lot of turnover, and there's you know, there's there's 273 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: risks there. 274 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I can certainly understand that. What's the AOT 275 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: law look like in Connecticut? 276 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: Later have one? 277 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: Okay? Is that something that the two of you are 278 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: trying to work on, because it seems like every single 279 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: state that I speak with has an AOT or an 280 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: MOT or nothing. From what I see on the ones 281 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: that are addressing it, they've got different terms for it, 282 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: and it seems like no one is really happy with 283 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: the way that they are addressing it. So how do 284 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: we get that across? How do we cross that bridge? 285 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: It seems like everyone wants change, yet the ones that 286 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: want change are unwilling to go against a person's rights. 287 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: Yet the person that needs the help, if they don't 288 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: have something happen, they could become dangerous either to themselves 289 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: or other people. So how do we change this? 290 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: So there are two caveats to this, So one is 291 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: an asignosia. An asignosia is the biological condition that people 292 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: have that often is what's standing in the way of 293 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: somebody agreeing to take medication because they do not recognize 294 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: that they are ill. There's therapy that can be used 295 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: to support somebody with an a signosia to help them 296 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: understand that they are sick. So it's my belief that anybody, 297 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: especially in our depermentive corrections working mental health, should have 298 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: that training because we could probably avoid The Department of 299 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: Corrections runs into these situations where people refuse their medication 300 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: once they've already been medicated, but then they stop taking 301 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: it and situations can escalate and people and get hurt 302 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: and worse as that escalation kind of gets out of control. 303 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: So there were in situations and as permitive corrections. Christina, 304 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: I actually and not talk to about this. I am 305 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: personally in fanut of AOT. I think we could reduce 306 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 2: our ways of homelessness. I think it has to be 307 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 2: strategicalty and carefully executed so that we can be sure 308 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: that somebody who truly has human beings, the person's best 309 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: interests at heart is involved in the decision. But there 310 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: are illnesses where forcing medication could be the only way 311 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: to help somebody see reality. I think we're doing people 312 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: ato service by not allowing them. We're never allowing them 313 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 2: that opportunity. MY son can be an example of that. 314 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: So he had a SIGNOSI when he was first incarcerated, 315 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 2: and he went for three and a half years unmedicated. 316 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 2: If somebody had the training in an asignosia, I think 317 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: he would have breached in medication much more quickly. His 318 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 2: dad and I actually did the training for leap therapy 319 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: and did it with him when we would go and 320 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 2: visit and on the phone. Doing that an environment through 321 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 2: visits that's as stressful as the primitive corrections. It took 322 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 2: us three years to get him to gree to take medication. 323 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: Once he finally did, it was the wrong medication. So 324 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: you won that risk with alt What if somebody's given 325 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 2: something that's toxic. So it's not as simple. It's not 326 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 2: just they're gray areas. 327 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: No doubt, there's always a gray area in anything you 328 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: choose to look at. I spoke with one gentleman that 329 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: had serious mental illness. It took him ten years to 330 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: get the right medication to get himself on the path 331 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: for recovery. He was constantly going back and forth on 332 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: medications until he found the right one that work. So, Christine, 333 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on this subject. 334 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it maybe should be part of the solution. 335 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: I think there's more information that's needed. I think right 336 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 3: now we're relying very heavily in the state of Connecticut 337 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 3: on outside organizations to provide care that's needed when people 338 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 3: are released from the prison system. As I mentioned, you know, 339 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 3: our prisons have become these de facto mental health institutions. 340 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 3: We are not providing the care for those who are incarcerated, 341 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 3: and so we really are falling short and denying a 342 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 3: fact of mental health care in prison, which is obviously well, 343 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: it should be ethically unacceptable. It's ethically unacceptable to me 344 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 3: and really contrary to the therapeutic goals that are really 345 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 3: underpinning treatment. So is AOT something that we should be 346 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: incorporating to further prevent recidivism, making sure that those who 347 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: have been identified as cycling through you know, the prison 348 00:19:55,359 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 3: system or our hospital system, are properly connected with care 349 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 3: and properly connected with trained individuals who know the medications 350 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 3: that need to be administered, the number of therapy appointments 351 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 3: and individual needs, how intensive that therapy should be, given 352 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: the diagnoses, and so I think it's something that should 353 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 3: absolutely be part of the discussion. 354 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 4: But we have a lot of work. 355 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 3: To do in Connecticut, a lot of work to do 356 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 3: nationwide really on this issue. You know, I was talking 357 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 3: about competing interests in terms of funding priorities. I mean, 358 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 3: how do we prevent this from happening in the first place? Right, 359 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 3: I think crisis invention training is one way, But how 360 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 3: do we get mental health care, a proper mental health 361 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: care into our school systems from an early age. That's 362 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 3: something where we're lacking funding. 363 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 5: Assigning one counselor to. 364 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: Each school and then one school psychologist to a district 365 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 3: is problematic, but that in a lot of cases what 366 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 3: the districts have across the state of Connecticut. We're just 367 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: falling short. 368 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 4: All over the place. 369 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: We need to be doing a better job at preventing 370 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 3: folks with mental health illness from becoming incarcerated individuals. And 371 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: then once they are incarcerated, what are the tools that 372 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: we have to ensure that they are getting the proper 373 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 3: treatment that's required. 374 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. You mentioned that prisons are the biggest institutions. 375 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: I heard from some source that LA Prison was the 376 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: largest one. 377 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. 378 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: I think LA, Cooks County and rikers As were the 379 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: three largest mental health facilities in the country. 380 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 4: We hear different numbers all the time. 381 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 3: Like I said, we got one report that said in 382 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 3: Connecticut they estimate eighty percent of those who are incarcerated 383 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: require mental health care. And there's some numbers that are, 384 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 3: you know, around fifty percent. I've seen sixty percent, So 385 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 3: the numbers are all over the place. But I really 386 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 3: do believe that it's probably more like eighty percent. 387 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: And if we could, I mean, right now, there are 388 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: a lot of people in Connecticut who are held incarcerated, 389 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 2: who are unsentenced. Ellis was at a mental you know 390 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: what they consider a mental health prison in Connecticut. In 391 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 2: that facility, forty two percent of people that are housed 392 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 2: there are unsentenced. And in the youth facility, which is 393 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 2: from fourteen to twenty one, sixty six percent of people 394 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: are unsentenced. 395 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 6: So if we know a lot of these people living 396 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 6: in incarceration have mental health issues while they are incentenced, 397 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 6: perhaps there could be another avenue for them to be 398 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 6: receiving more aggressive treatment until their cases are adjudicated. 399 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: Time is brain. Your brain is on fire and nobody's 400 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: addressing it and you're just waiting. What's the point of that. 401 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 3: We know that mental health were sentenced behind bars, so 402 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 3: regardless of whether getting proper treatment or not, So how 403 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 3: can we ensure that we're doing as much as possible 404 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 3: to maintain baseline at the very least. 405 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, as a society, we have this mindset of it's 406 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: not a problem unless it affects our family. There's a 407 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: lot of people out there that have no knowledge of 408 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: serious mental illness, including our representatives. How can you get 409 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: it across to them that if you can create legislation 410 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: that will keep these people out of the judicial system 411 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: and out of the prison system, it can save taxpayers 412 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars. 413 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't need to convince everybody, but 414 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 3: I do need to convince the right people. 415 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 4: You know, as a public servant. 416 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 3: I think that really requires some strategy. I think it 417 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 3: requires some authenticity, Like I need to authentically care about 418 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 3: the issue, whether I cared about it before somebody presented 419 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 3: me with it or I didn't. I really need to 420 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: have some level of passion about that because of everything 421 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: we've talked about, how difficult it is to get things 422 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 3: over the finish line, how you have competing interests. 423 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 4: You know, Denise mentioned I'm on. 424 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 3: Several other committees, but I'm not on these particular committees 425 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 3: of cognizance, and so I think I need those components 426 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 3: to effectively rally the right people. 427 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 4: And I think it's. 428 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 3: Really important that as we go through this process that 429 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: we're really raiming whatever issue it is around shared values. 430 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 3: And I think most people can understand mental illness, regardless 431 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: of the fact that there still seems to be a 432 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 3: stigma around it and some people don't. 433 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 4: Like to talk about it. 434 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 3: I think most people have been impacted one way or 435 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: another by mental illness, and to say they haven't, whether 436 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: they know somebody or a friend, is just I think 437 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: living under a rock, you know. So I think sharing 438 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 3: those personal stories and there's a lot of opportunity for 439 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 3: that throughout the legislative process. 440 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 4: It probably doesn't. 441 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 3: Seem like it from a constituent standpoint, right when Denise 442 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 3: has one shot to go in front of a committee 443 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: and sort of lead her case, that feels like, you know, 444 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 3: you're under pressure and who's actually listening their legislators coming 445 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 3: in and out. 446 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 4: Of the room. 447 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 3: You could be waiting hours to testify, and then you 448 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: just hope and pray that there's a couple of the 449 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 3: right people that are really hearing you. So I think 450 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 3: they're opportunity more opportunities for me, And that's why I 451 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 3: think a legislator really needs to care about the ISDU. 452 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 3: So the best thing an advocate can do is to 453 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 3: find somebody to care about and take up their cause, 454 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 3: because they are the ones behind the scenes that are 455 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 3: establishing those connections and getting the right people to care 456 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 3: about what it is you're talking about and advocating for 457 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 3: coalition buildings. 458 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: I recently spoke with a lady on serious mental illness. 459 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: She said, I don't get the cast role. That was 460 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: the first time i'd heard that. After she explained it, 461 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: the first person that came to my mind was you, Denise. 462 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: She explained it like this, when you have someone that 463 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: has cancer or serious illness. The first thing that you 464 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: do is bring somebody a cast role, a cake, a cookie, 465 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: whatever you can to help them make it easier. But 466 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: when you have someone that has serious mental illness, you 467 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: don't get the cast role. I thought of you because 468 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: you did get the cast role. Your neighbors were very 469 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: supportive of you and did everything they could do to 470 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: help you through this. Many do not get that. So 471 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: how do you expand this to other communities so that 472 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: they can do the same thing in getting to the 473 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: senators and legislators to help make change for the whole state. 474 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: It's interesting you asked that question, Tony, because I just 475 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: had this conversation with Jim McShane, who Christine referenced two 476 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: days ago. We were talking about just that. Two things. 477 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 2: One is my family has been very blessed to have 478 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: such strong support within our community, and that has really 479 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: helped in terms of moving forward when we're being knocked 480 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 2: down in other ways, because you know, Ellis is still incarcerated, 481 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: there's a lot of knockdowns, so it's been tremendously helpful. 482 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 2: I think that is the key. So I have I 483 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: mean mostly moms, you know, many women within my community 484 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 2: who were willing to speak up, you know, make more noise. 485 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 2: You know it's Guildford, you know it's Madison Brand, but 486 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 2: you know it's our closed towns. How do we get 487 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: more people in more communities to speak up. That's tricky. 488 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: I think it's so vital. So it just had a 489 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 2: meeting about this the other day. We were meeting with 490 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: a social justice group at a synagogue in the next 491 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: town over and talking about just this one matter because 492 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 2: I think people who are living in incarceration or people 493 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: who just have serious mental illness in general wherever they are, 494 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: become invisible and they become marginalized, and there's so much 495 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 2: stigma around it, and we need more people to say, hey, 496 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 2: this is not okay. The services and are mag okay. 497 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 2: This matters. We're actually thinking about ways that we can 498 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 2: reach out to other people we know and get them 499 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: to make more noise. Through NAMI, I can reach out 500 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: to other leaders within NAMI and other affiliates across the state, 501 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: and that is something that I've done who care about 502 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 2: social justice. Not every NOMY affiliate has a social justice component, 503 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 2: but many do. But that's something that I've been doing, 504 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 2: just reaching out to other people asking them to try 505 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: and gain more voice you know where they are. But 506 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: it's a challenge, especially when we're talking about an incarcerated community, 507 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 2: because so many people living in incarceration come from certain 508 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 2: pockets of the state, and the strategies we're talking about 509 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: is getting people from other areas of the state to 510 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 2: say it matters to us as a society, as human beings, 511 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: you know, we've got to change this. 512 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: Yes, And not only that we have those that are incarcerated, 513 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: we also have the homeless that live on the streets. 514 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: Lots of times they'll bounce back and forth between homeless 515 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: shelters and the streets because they don't fit the criteria 516 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: to stay. So many people think they just want to 517 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: be there, and that's just not the case. There's still 518 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: in between medications, they haven't found the right one. There 519 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: can be so many different reasons why they're there. So 520 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,239 Speaker 1: how do we tackle that situation so that we can 521 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: get more empathy towards what they're going through. 522 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 2: It's really tough. I mean that you're kind of circling 523 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: back to aot I've had I've had family members of 524 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: people reach out to me, you know, I've been very 525 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: vocal about Ellis, and people have reached out to me 526 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: privately to tell me that their sister is living in 527 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: a different state on the street, or their brother has 528 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: been on the street and their families have sort of 529 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: given up and they don't know what to do. We 530 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: run into this situation with addiction as well. People are 531 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 2: ill and they're being villainized, being seminalized, but it's really 532 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: an illness. I find it very hard to believe that 533 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,959 Speaker 2: there is a human being who wants to live on 534 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: the street. I don't think that's a thing. I think 535 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 2: somebody is voicing that they want to be left alone. 536 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: That's what they're doing. It's because they need help. 537 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: So in closing, what do you think is the most 538 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: important one thing that our listeners here from the both 539 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: of you, that you're trying to do to make things better? 540 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right. 541 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: I think we need to keep talking about this, you know, 542 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 3: do everything we can to reduce stigma around mental illness, 543 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: do everything we can to increase parity when it comes 544 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 3: to healthcare or mental illness, and really thinking about more 545 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 3: humane and effective ways we approach this across the spectrum, 546 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 3: whether it be in hospitals, whether it be in prisons, 547 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: whether it be in our school systems, and so really 548 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 3: thinking about that. And also, as I mentioned, and as 549 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: we've talked about, all three of us have talked about today, 550 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 3: you know, really coalition building around that. 551 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 5: So if this is something that you're interested. 552 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: In, please get involved and we can always use your 553 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: help as legislators in advocacy work to help us pass 554 00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 3: important policies around this. 555 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: I think people should reconsider when people have a gut 556 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: feeling or a gut saw it when they hear something 557 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: that is mental health related, that they should try and 558 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 2: think a little bit more deeply and think about the 559 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 2: trade off we are making as a society by not 560 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 2: adequately treating people with serious mental illness, what it says 561 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,719 Speaker 2: about us as a society, and what we're doing, what 562 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: the impact is downstream. 563 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because one thing that's never answered is the email 564 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: or letter that is never sent. 565 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah. 566 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: Well this has been great, great information, great conversation. I 567 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking the time to join us today. 568 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 2: How are you? 569 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 4: Thank you? 570 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 3: I yeah, thank you, Tony. I really appreciate you raising 571 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 3: awareness around us. 572 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure. Thanks again, thanks for taking time 573 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. 574 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed 575 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: bring it to you. 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