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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: Very excited to be joined today by a presidential contender

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Speaker 1: and also full disclosure, a close personal friend, Mary and Williamson.

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Speaker 3: Great to see you.

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Speaker 4: It's great to see you too, both of you. Thank

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Speaker 4: you absolutely so.

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Speaker 1: As someone who wants to be commander in chief, I

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Speaker 1: thought we would start with the breaking news out of Russia,

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Speaker 1: which we've been covering extensively. What do you think that

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Speaker 1: this aborted coup attempt means for Putin and especially means

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Speaker 1: for the Ukraine War and our involvement in it.

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Speaker 5: Well, in terms of what it means for Putin overall,

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Speaker 5: we don't know all the facts yet. I mean, we

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Speaker 5: went from progosion to trader to all charges are dropped.

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Speaker 5: We're sending him to Belarus. So We don't really know

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Speaker 5: what's going on behind the scenes, but we do know this.

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Speaker 5: We do know that Putin looks vulnerable now in a

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Speaker 5: way that he hasn't during his entire tenure, and the

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Speaker 5: oligarchs are watching, the people who are really in power

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Speaker 5: in Russia are watching. So this definitely hurt him that way,

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Speaker 5: no matter how it shapes up now. Regarding the specifics

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Speaker 5: of pregosion and that will affect the Ukraine War, I

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Speaker 5: certainly think it has given a psychological boost to the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 2: So, Marianne, what do you think about continued US military

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Speaker 2: aid currently to Ukraine. How would your policy different be

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Speaker 2: different from Joe Biden's should you be elected president? And

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Speaker 2: do you think that regime change instability like this inside

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Speaker 2: of Russia is a desirable goal?

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Speaker 5: Well, the reason it's not a desirable goal is because

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Speaker 5: of nuclear bombs.

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Speaker 4: It's dangerous.

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Speaker 5: If there were to be regime changed in Russia, we

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Speaker 5: don't know that it would be people who would be

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Speaker 5: better for us. So any instability there, it cannot be

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Speaker 5: taken for granted, is a good thing for the United States.

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Speaker 5: That's number one. In terms of Joe Biden. He seems

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Speaker 5: to be taking an attitude of for as long as

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Speaker 5: it takes. I certainly don't think we should be saying

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Speaker 5: as long as it takes. We should be putting this

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Speaker 5: thing to bed as soon as possible. The issue is

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Speaker 5: how do you do that. It's easy enough to say

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Speaker 5: we need to cease fire. Well, both the Ukrainians and

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Speaker 5: the Russians want to cease fire. Sure, but the Russians

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Speaker 5: definitely want to cease fire. Great, right now, what that

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Speaker 5: means they want? The Ukrainians say we want to cease fire.

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Speaker 5: Russians need to leave here. We should support whatever efforts

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Speaker 5: might be possible. There was a time when g went

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Speaker 5: to Russia. We thought something big and important might happen.

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Speaker 5: Soelenski said to call me, I want this. We're not

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Speaker 5: living in a unipolo world anymore. The United States is

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Speaker 5: not the only power broker here. Denmark, the Foreign Minister

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Speaker 5: of Denmark recently said we'll host a summit. He said

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Speaker 5: it can't just be Ukrainian allies, it also be others.

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Speaker 4: I think that that's really what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 5: I think some people see the United States as the

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Speaker 5: only power broker that matters here, and it's something not.

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Speaker 1: That we do matter, though, we are a significant power broker,

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Speaker 1: if not the only one, you know, would you support

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Speaker 1: potentially withholding military aid to sort of pressure Zelenski to

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Speaker 1: come to the table and accept what, in any circumstance

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Speaker 1: is going to be some difficult concessions if you were

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Speaker 1: going to come to negotiated settlement here.

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Speaker 4: At a certain point. I don't think this week is

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Speaker 4: that point.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, in the middle of a counter offensive and

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Speaker 5: especially now with what's going on with precovision.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely that time might come.

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Speaker 2: So that time might come, But I think that the

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Speaker 2: question is around the limiting principles and like what does

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Speaker 2: that look for you? So obviously concerned around nuclear war,

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Speaker 2: we should also be concerned about the integrity of the

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian regime some of the makeup of those forces. To

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Speaker 2: any of the makeup of the forces concern you. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've been casting them, you know, almost as a unilateral

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Speaker 2: force that you know, some force of democracy, and unfortunately

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Speaker 2: that doesn't remain the case. It doesn't mean that they

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Speaker 2: don't mean to be invaded. So what is your view

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Speaker 2: currently of the makeup of the Ukrainian government. What are

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Speaker 2: some of the things you would look for in terms

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Speaker 2: of what a potential negotiation would look like and then

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Speaker 2: what a future of ukraineou look like.

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Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I do believe that they have

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Speaker 5: a right to sovereignty. Of course, I do believe that they

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Speaker 5: have a right to their own free agency. And I

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Speaker 5: don't believe that they would be fighting the way they're

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Speaker 5: fighting if they were just agents and puppets of the

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Speaker 5: US State Department. I don't I think that, and I

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Speaker 5: think they have a right to their country. On the

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Speaker 5: other hand, sometimes in war you don't get everything that

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Speaker 5: you wanted at the beginning, and there is a point

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Speaker 5: at which, listen, it's not even there as a point

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Speaker 5: at which we're already at the point where this has

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Speaker 5: to be a negotia negotiated settlement nothing else is possible.

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Speaker 5: I would like to see, as Europeans would like to

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Speaker 5: see this to be a settlement in which there is

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Speaker 5: still a Ukraine. Now, some people, and some of my

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Speaker 5: opponent chaires, seem to think that if it just stops

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Speaker 5: the way it is and we just withdraw support, Putin's

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Speaker 5: just this nice guy and everything will be great because

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Speaker 5: he's gotten everything that he wants. That's really what we're

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Speaker 5: talking about. Here one of us is wrong and one

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Speaker 5: of us is right. I don't believe that about Putin.

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Speaker 5: This is I look at the Ukrainian Russian situation within

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Speaker 5: the context of a broader sense of where the world

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Speaker 5: is now. This is no longer a unipolar world. When

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Speaker 5: it was a unipolar world, we misused our power. We

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Speaker 5: misused our power in many many ways. We were manipulative,

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Speaker 5: we were exploitative, we were militaristic, We were imperialistic, both

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Speaker 5: economically and militarily. We squandered our resources of moral authority,

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Speaker 5: We squandered our resources of military authority or even military

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Speaker 5: respect from people around the world. So we are now

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Speaker 5: one of many great powers. We have to become more

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Speaker 5: humble and realize that I see foreign relationships the same

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Speaker 5: way I see domestic relationships. Nobody owns this country. We

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Speaker 5: all have to live here in this country. We all

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Speaker 5: own it. We don't always agree, we have to own it.

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Speaker 5: At the same time, you don't get to invade my space.

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Speaker 5: And that's how I see foreign relations as well. So

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Speaker 5: we have to There has to be a deep reset

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Speaker 5: of our relationship, whether it's with China, whether it's with India,

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Speaker 5: whether it's with Russia, with Latin America, with Africa and

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Speaker 5: within that, you don't get to invade my space. And

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Speaker 5: that's really what's happening with Ukraine. Russia feels that we

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Speaker 5: have invaded his space. Ukraine feels they have invaded ukraine space.

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Speaker 5: I feel that they have invaded ukraine space.

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Speaker 2: So in the SOE he used the term though my space.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, do we are we saying that we

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Speaker 2: have a security guarantee to Ukraine? I mean, would Ukraine

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Speaker 2: ever be in NATO under your presidency?

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Speaker 5: Would you entertain well even that you know, you know,

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Speaker 5: I heard one of my opponents say what we need

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Speaker 5: to do is just make sure.

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Speaker 4: That Ukraine says we will never join NATO.

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Speaker 5: To me, that is an example of America doing what

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Speaker 5: many people on the left say we don't want America

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Speaker 5: to do. I don't think that that should just be

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Speaker 5: America's decision, whether it's you will join NATO or you

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Speaker 5: won't join NATO. I know that we're the most important

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Speaker 5: player there, but we're part of a European alliance. And

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Speaker 5: I find, you know, you look at someone like Finland.

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Speaker 5: Finland stayed neutral for decades and now they've joined NATO.

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Speaker 4: You know the Europeans.

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Speaker 5: You know, I was in I just spent a month

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Speaker 5: in London, and I heard several times the word narcissistic

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Speaker 5: about a lot of the views of the Ukrainian War

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Speaker 5: expressed by some on the American left. They said, what

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Speaker 5: a narcissistic view. This is not just about you. And

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Speaker 5: I think that if we are going to see ourselves

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Speaker 5: it's part of a broader international alliance and part of

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Speaker 5: a deeply held Western alliance, then we take very seriously

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Speaker 5: such issues as the nation doing what it wants to do.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, if you were to be

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Speaker 1: president of the United States, your priorities first and foremost

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Speaker 1: the safety and security of the American people, and Ukraine

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Speaker 1: entering NATO means, obviously than we are extending Article five

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Speaker 1: protection to the Ukrainians and saying our sons and daughters

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Speaker 1: would go and fight a war to protect their sovereignty.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we spend a lot more money in terms

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Speaker 1: of NATO than any other country in the world. It's

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Speaker 1: our nuclear umbrella that becomes involved. So there is a

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Speaker 1: sort of, you know, a central position, and especially with

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Speaker 1: regards an American president in terms of how they think

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Speaker 1: about Ukraine, potentially joining NATO, because the reporting is right

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Speaker 1: now that a lot of the European allies are like, yes,

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Speaker 1: let's give Ukraine a specific pathway into NATO. But we

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Speaker 1: also know that that was not all of it, but

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Speaker 1: part of the provocation that led to this illegal war

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Speaker 1: on Russia's behalf where they felt like their sovereignty was

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Speaker 1: at stake.

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Speaker 4: Well, I know that that's sort of the line.

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Speaker 5: It was a provocation and they felt their sovereignty was

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Speaker 5: at stake. Ukraine did not invade Russian. Russian invaded Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: That let's be really clear about that. What one person

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Speaker 5: calls provocation, another person just seize as the excuse, right, right,

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Speaker 5: And people.

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Speaker 1: Are behaving as an empire does.

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Speaker 5: Which is exactly what Russia is doing right now.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying exactly.

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Speaker 1: You have to understand that they're an empire and that

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Speaker 1: if you know, engage in things that they view as provocations,

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Speaker 1: this is not a justification. It's just an empire is

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Speaker 1: going to behave in the way that an empire does.

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Speaker 5: Right So, in the fact that there has to be

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Speaker 5: a negotiated settlement, obviously, the question of NATO, of Ukraine

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Speaker 5: joining NATO it's part of that settlement. It would certainly

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Speaker 5: seem to me likely that there would be a depending

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Speaker 5: on what the settlement is. Obviously, it's probably not the

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Speaker 5: best time right now anyway for the.

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Speaker 2: Door open, though to possible Ukrainian I.

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Speaker 4: Have a hard time with being even I know what

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Speaker 4: you said.

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Speaker 5: You said you're the American commander in chief, but that's

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Speaker 5: exactly the kind of thing I think that we should

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Speaker 5: not be the pastor we should not be taking. I

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Speaker 5: don't think as the American president I should be making

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Speaker 5: a statement one way or the other as a candidate,

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Speaker 5: yes they should or yes they shouldn't. NATO chief recently

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Speaker 5: came to Washington to lobby Biden for that, and Biden himself,

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Speaker 5: who is he said, let's stay away from that.

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Speaker 4: So now I don't want to say that they should.

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Speaker 1: Let's move on to talk a little bit about Israel,

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Speaker 1: which has been another, you know, subject of continued controversy

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Speaker 1: and concern about how our relationship with Israel should or

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Speaker 1: could change. Just a specific question, you know, do you

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Speaker 1: support a two state solution? What is your view of

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Speaker 1: the ideal sort of settlement at this point, recognizing that

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Speaker 1: Israel has continued to engage in these illegal settlements, taking

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Speaker 1: more and more of the territory of the occupied territories

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Speaker 1: and making it so difficult to come to any sort

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Speaker 1: of two state solution.

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Speaker 5: The settlements are illegal, the occupation is illegal. The blockade

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Speaker 5: of Gaza is a moral and it's wrong. There is

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Speaker 5: a moral law and the founding of the state of

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Speaker 5: Israel justice. There was a moral flaw the founding of

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Speaker 5: the United States and justice. The United States has had

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Speaker 5: to deal with that and needs to deal with it.

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Speaker 5: And just as they say in Black Lives Matter, no justice,

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Speaker 5: no peace, the same applies to Israel. They're going to

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Speaker 5: have to deal with this and there will be no justice.

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Speaker 5: There will be no peace until there's justice, and there

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Speaker 5: is no military solution there. One of the problems we

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Speaker 5: have is that we now have the most right wing

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Speaker 5: government that they've ever had. This isn't even of a

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Speaker 5: few years ago. So at this point the United States

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Speaker 5: needs to make it very very clear that the basic

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Speaker 5: tenor and the basic behavioral patterns of the Israeli government

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Speaker 5: go against our own values, go against the values.

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Speaker 4: That we consider that which we should in any way support.

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Speaker 5: Now in terms of the money that is given right

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Speaker 5: Now there's a memorandum of understanding until twenty twenty eight,

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Speaker 5: so we take an Act of Congress actually to withhold

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Speaker 5: that money. But the United States absolutely can say that

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Speaker 5: that money will not in any way go to activities

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Speaker 5: such as something in the settlement, something in the in

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Speaker 5: the occupied territory that in any way transgresses against our values.

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Speaker 5: And as president, I would definitely make this clear. Biden's

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Speaker 5: handoff approach there is not acceptable.

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Speaker 2: So you would you would condition military aid based upon

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Speaker 2: the behavior of these.

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Speaker 5: Really government Yeah, like I said, the military aid, it's well,

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Speaker 5: the aid itself is not specifically Yeah, so the State

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Speaker 5: Department A goes until twenty twenty eight. It would take

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Speaker 5: an Act of Congress to change that. But absolutely, as president,

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Speaker 5: I would say this money cannot be used in any

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Speaker 5: ways which transgressed against our values. And I would say

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Speaker 5: it needs to be said.

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Speaker 1: So you just level one criticism against current President Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: You know, how do you think he's done in office?

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Speaker 1: And obviously a lot of voters have concerns just about

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Speaker 1: his age and his basic fitness to serve, concerns that

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Speaker 1: he has been unable to put to bed because he

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Speaker 1: doesn't subject himself to a lot of interviews. He's not

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Speaker 1: planning to debate you or RFK Junior or anymore mouse

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Speaker 1: he jumps in the race. Do you personally believe Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden is fit to serve another term as president?

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Speaker 5: I think to look at a man his age and

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Speaker 5: think forward four years, I think, for me, it's an

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Speaker 5: unreasonable assumption that he would be at the top of

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Speaker 5: his game. But to me, even if he was at

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Speaker 5: the top of his game, I'm not running because he's

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Speaker 5: not at the top of his game. Even if he

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Speaker 5: is at the top of his game, I'm running because

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Speaker 5: I do not agree with the direction that that administration

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Speaker 5: is leading the country. I do not believe that it's

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Speaker 5: the direction that will even be able to defeat the

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Speaker 5: Democrats the Republicans in twenty twenty four, and I don't

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Speaker 5: think that it's a direction that is good for this

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Speaker 5: country over the next four years.

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Speaker 4: I feel that this country is.

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Speaker 5: In bigger trouble than the political elites seem to realize.

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Speaker 5: I think that the rabble, what they would call a rabble,

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Speaker 5: is closer to the gates of the Bastille than they

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Speaker 5: have any idea. And I feel like what we're living

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Speaker 5: through right now is a kind of slow motion. It's

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Speaker 5: like watching a slow motion car crash, except it's actually

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Speaker 5: two thousands sixteen. People simply did not realize how much

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Speaker 5: pain there is out there, how much to spare, how

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Speaker 5: much anger. In twenty sixteen, there were two candidates who

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Speaker 5: said it. Bernie said it and Trump said it. And

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Speaker 5: the difference was that Bernie really meant it, and as president,

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Speaker 5: would have effectuated the change that is necessary. It is

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Speaker 5: a fundamental change. Biden does not represent fundamental economic reform.

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Speaker 5: He represents incremental change. He represents policies that are saying,

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Speaker 5: given the way things are, I'd like to ameliorate your stress.

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Speaker 5: And I believe what the Democratic Party should stand for,

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Speaker 5: and what is President I would stand for is the

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Speaker 5: actual end to the injustice that is causing all that stress.

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Speaker 5: What the corporate is Democrats to do, including President Biden,

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Speaker 5: is we want to make your life easier, to survive,

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Speaker 5: easier to survive what is essentially an unjust system.

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Speaker 4: We need to end the injustice.

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Speaker 5: That would mean universal healthcare and medicare for all type situations,

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Speaker 5: me intuition, free college, and tech school. That would mean childcare,

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Speaker 5: paid family leave, guaranteed housing, guaranteed sick pay, guaranteed living wage.

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Speaker 4: This ship is so far to the side.

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Speaker 5: We have seventy percent of Americans who report to see

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Speaker 5: INBC that they live with constant economic stress. You know,

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Speaker 5: we call it a mental health crisis, but the mental

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Speaker 5: health crisis is a symptom, and we need to look

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Speaker 5: deeper at all these things. We need to look at

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Speaker 5: cause and we cannot. There's no way to overestimate the

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Speaker 5: role that economic tension and anxiety plays. You have sixty

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Speaker 5: percent of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck. We have

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Speaker 5: one in four Americans who live with medical debt, a

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Speaker 5: majority of Americans who live with debt period. You know,

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Speaker 5: the American dream used to be that I can have

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Speaker 5: a house with a picket fence. Now the American dream

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Speaker 5: for a lot of people is that they will die

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Speaker 5: having gotten out of debt.

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Speaker 2: Right So, Marian, right now, there's a big debate happening

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Speaker 2: right now as to whether you should run as a

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Speaker 2: Democrat or whether it's more effective to run like a

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Speaker 2: third party doctor Cornell West, So why are you running

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Speaker 2: as a Democrat as opposed to a Cornell West kind

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Speaker 2: of attacking the system? From the outside.

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Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I don't think either choice is illegitimate.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you look at American history, third party

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Speaker 5: voices are very significant. You know, Abolition came from the

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Speaker 5: Abolitionist Party, Women's suffrage came from the Women's Party.

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Speaker 4: Social security came from a socialist party.

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Speaker 5: Yes, so I think it's terrible the way the Democrats

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Speaker 5: and the Republicans have formed an unholy alliance over the

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Speaker 5: last few years, making it very difficult for third party

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Speaker 5: voices to be heard. That is true, But I also

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Speaker 5: believe that there was once a soul of the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 5: You know, there was the Rooseveltian, unabashed, unequivocal commitment to

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Speaker 5: the well being of the of the working people of

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Speaker 5: the United States. We cannot allow a vision of real

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Speaker 5: justice to be completely peripheralized. I'm not willing to say, Okay,

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Speaker 5: two major political parties, you get it. Corporate power, corporate

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Speaker 5: control peripheralize any sense of real humanitarian values when they

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Speaker 5: in any way challenge the corporatus tyranny that now has

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Speaker 5: hold of our country. Now, I'm not willing to say

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Speaker 5: I'll just kind over here and say it, okay. Is

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Speaker 5: if I want to do that. I can just write

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Speaker 5: about it in books which I have. They don't mind

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Speaker 5: third party candidates unless they feel that the third party

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Speaker 5: candidate could actually be a threat, and perhaps that's what

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Speaker 5: Cornell West will represent.

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Speaker 3: Got it, Marian?

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Speaker 1: As you probably heard, we interviewed here you're one of

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Speaker 1: your opponents, are off K Junior, and we asked them

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Speaker 1: specifically about medicare for all and his response and people

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Speaker 1: can go back and watch the exact words, but it's

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Speaker 1: in paraphrasing here. It was effectively in theory, I support

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Speaker 1: single payer healthcare, but I think it's politically infeasible. You

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Speaker 1: just laid out the domestic agenda that many people, including

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Speaker 1: people on the left, but I think more broadly, would

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Speaker 1: really support, including universal health care, including universal childcare, paid

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Speaker 1: family leave, all of those things. But how do you

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Speaker 1: get around the fact that you know you're certainly going

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Speaker 1: to have you and if you have basic control of

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Speaker 1: the center, you're unlikely to.

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Speaker 3: Have a filibuster proof majority.

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Speaker 1: You're certainly not even going to have all the Democrats

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Speaker 1: on board with a more ambitious program of economic reform

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Speaker 1: because of all the failures of the Democratic Party that

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Speaker 1: you've laid out before. So how do you make such

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Speaker 1: an important agenda actually politically feasible or is that is

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Speaker 1: that a you know, legitimate critique.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, Bobby when he was here, also said

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Speaker 5: in that same interview, I think I'm a free market

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Speaker 5: capitalism guy.

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Speaker 4: So I don't.

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Speaker 5: Agree that his only problem with getting to medicare for

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Speaker 5: all is that he doesn't think it's politically feasible.

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Speaker 4: There's something else going on there.

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Speaker 5: So this whole issue of agency capture by pharmaceutical companies,

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Speaker 5: insurance companies, big food, I certainly agree with that, but

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Speaker 5: there's more to it than just getting them out of office.

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Speaker 5: You've got to change the economic structure. And as long

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Speaker 5: as the corporate subsidies continue, as long as the tax

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Speaker 5: structure continues the way it is, of course it.

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Speaker 4: Will never be feasible.

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Speaker 5: That's what that's you know, that's what Obama said before

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Speaker 5: he went in.

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Speaker 4: He said, Oh, I'm all for universal health care.

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Speaker 5: Then of course, once Democrats get in power, it's just

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Speaker 5: not politically feasible. You were the one, Crystal who I

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Speaker 5: once heard say a phrase that just has stayed with me.

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Speaker 5: We have been trained to limit our political imaginations. You

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Speaker 5: don't lead from a place of what's politically feasible. A

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Speaker 5: great leader leads from a place of this is what

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Speaker 5: we need to do. Abolition wasn't politically feasible, The Nineteenth

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Speaker 5: Amendment wasn't politically feasible. Establishing the right of people to

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Speaker 5: unionize wasn't politically feasible. Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act,

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Speaker 5: the segregation wasn't politically feasible. We have become a people

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Speaker 5: who acquiesce so easily to just whatever.

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Speaker 4: We can get. That's what Obamacare represented. Initially.

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Speaker 5: He went from supporting universal health care to getting in

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Speaker 5: there and was clearly told, the insurance companies will allow

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Speaker 5: you to go this far. And that's what the corporate

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Speaker 5: Democrats do. They try to help you out as much

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Speaker 5: as they can within the space of not challenging their

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Speaker 5: corporate li donors.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not running.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I am aware that what I am saying

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Speaker 5: is completely counter to the corporatist paradigm that now rules

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Speaker 5: our country. However, the issues that I'm standing on, whether

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Speaker 5: it's Medicare for all, tuition free college, greater mitigation of

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Speaker 5: climate disaster, and so forth, these are the views that

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Speaker 5: are agreed that the majority of Americans agree with So

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Speaker 5: what's happening is that our Congress acts more at the

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Speaker 5: behest of the short term profits of their corporate donors

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Speaker 5: than at the behest of even the will much less

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Speaker 5: the safety and well being of the American people. So

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Speaker 5: my candidacy opens the door of possibility. Obviously I would

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Speaker 5: need more than Democrats in the House and Democrats in

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Speaker 5: the Senate, because the issue is what kind of democrats

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Speaker 5: if you have Manton and cinema types, but people. I

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Speaker 5: hope this isn't awakening, and I think with Bobby running,

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Speaker 5: with Cornell running, with my running, I think there is.

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Speaker 5: It's a greater awakening going on. We don't have to

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Speaker 5: accept what those people are offering, what the corporatus and

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Speaker 5: of course they're giving us just Trump and Biden. Again,

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Speaker 5: it's a sclerotic system, and we can expect more. We should,

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Speaker 5: we should demand more, and that would mean, of course,

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Speaker 5: for someone like myself, don't just I figure this how

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Speaker 5: I look at it. If this country gets to a

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Speaker 5: point where they would put me in office, they would

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Speaker 5: also be at a point where they would be putting

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Speaker 5: some congressional people and senators in.

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Speaker 4: Office as well.

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Speaker 5: So this has to be this has to be something

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Speaker 5: where people are thinking in terms of their primaries, their

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Speaker 5: congressional and Senate primaries as well.

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Speaker 2: Makes sense. So we had Rfki Junior on the show.

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Speaker 2: You referenced in just this disagreement on free market capitalism,

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Speaker 2: polser to be believed. He's actually doing quite well. It's

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00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,360
Speaker 2: currently higher than you are. So why do you think

439
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: that his message is resonating? What's the biggest difference? Since

440
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 2: this is clearly enough also another significant opponent that you'll

441
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 2: have to get over should you want to become the

442
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: primary or win the primary of the Democrats.

443
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 5: I don't think it takes anything from his message, and

444
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 5: it's not to show any personal disrespect. But he's a man,

445
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 5: and here's a Kennedy and anybody who doesn't see that,

446
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 5: I think I would say it to him. I would

447
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 5: think he'd say, yeah, Bobby's perspective about corporate capture. How

448
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 5: as I've always said, we've become a government of the people,

449
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 5: by the people, for the people who's moved to other corporations,

450
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 5: by the corporations, and for the corporations. He and I

451
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 5: agree on that. I've been saying those things myself. We

452
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 5: have deep disagreements about Israel's comments about Israel's was telling

453
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 5: you the other day this sounded like an APAC conference

454
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 5: in two thousand and five. His view of the border,

455
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 5: I mean, his views of what we should do with

456
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 5: the border. In some ways, we're almost right of Donald Trump.

457
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 5: So Bobby Kennedy and I have some differences to me.

458
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 5: You know, the worst forms of oppression that I want

459
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 5: to talk about are not being deep platformed from Instagram. Sure,

460
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 5: the worst forms of a person that I want to

461
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 5: talk about is the well being of the average American person.

462
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 5: During the nineteen seventies, we had a thriving middle class

463
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 5: in this country. The average American worker could afford a house,

464
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 5: could afford a car, could afford a yearly vacation, could

465
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 5: afford for one person, one member of the couple, to

466
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 5: stay home if they wished, and they could afford to

467
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 5: send their kids to college.

468
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 4: There has been a.

469
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 5: Fifty trillion dollar a massive transfer of wealth and wealth

470
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 5: creating opportunity into the hands of one percent of the

471
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 5: American people.

472
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 4: That's what I want to.

473
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 5: Talk about, and I don't think fundamentalist free market capitalism.

474
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 4: You sort of can't have it both ways. You cannot have.

475
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 5: A return to a thriving middle class without having a

476
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 5: conversation about the fact that American capitalism, modern American capitalism

477
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 5: has lost its morals.

478
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, though, because the fact that he's

479
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: a man in a cane d isn't going to change

480
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: the fact that when I'm Biden is a man in

481
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: the you know, come and president also not going to change.

482
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: So how do you reach to people? How do you

483
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: change the polls?

484
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 5: Listen, the American people should hear what Bobby has to say.

485
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 5: I just want the American people also to hear what

486
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 5: I have to say. And I'm very clear about the forces.

487
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 5: Some of the forces that are making it very very

488
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 5: hard for me to be heard are also working over

489
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 5: time to make it very very hard that he.

490
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 4: Would be heard. But he has other megaphones.

491
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, I don't have the elite bros.

492
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 5: You know, Oh Jack, And when he was on this

493
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 5: show talking about you know, Elon said and Jack said

494
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 5: and jokes and you know, no, I don't have.

495
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: That crop, right, So what do you have?

496
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 5: Huh?

497
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 3: What do you have?

498
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 5: The people that I talk to when I'm on the

499
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 5: on the ground, when I'm on the ground in New

500
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 5: Hampshire when I'm on the ground in South Carolina, when

501
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 5: I'm actually talking to people about their pain and how

502
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 5: so much of American public policy.

503
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 4: Contributes to that pain.

504
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 5: So, you know, and he's he's smeared for his some

505
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 5: views and I'm smeared for.

506
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 4: Listen. We have a system.

507
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 5: I've mentioned that before, this political media industrial empire. And

508
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 5: this is why is Bobby himself has been saying. He

509
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 5: talks about going on podcasts, talks about shows like yours.

510
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 4: This is how we.

511
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 5: Are getting our word out. People should hear what Bobby

512
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 5: has to say. I should hear what I have to say.

513
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 5: They should hear what the president has to say. That's democracy.

514
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 5: They should hear what Cornell has to say.

515
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 2: No disagreement here. You referenced his positions on vaccines there.

516
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: Do you have a disagreement with him on the issue

517
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: of vaccines. I know you expressed interest and want before

518
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: for an independent review board, something that's one of his desires.

519
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: But what about the underlying claims he's made here before?

520
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 5: Well, the independent review board I do agree with, I

521
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 5: will stand for safe vaccines.

522
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 4: That's what he says too well, and then.

523
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 5: He goes into some other things as well. One of

524
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 5: the things that really upset me during the COVID vaccine

525
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 5: was how little conversation was even allowed about treatment, whether

526
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 5: it was ivramectin or hydro Clark queen. So I would

527
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 5: notice that friends of mine which I, oh, you know,

528
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 5: my doctor gave me iiromat dinner.

529
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 4: My doctor gave me hydro Clark queen.

530
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 5: So I realized it was this kind of elite America

531
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 5: that was having one conversation while the CDC and the

532
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 5: administrations were both using the media to focus this on

533
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 5: this idea. No, it's got to be it's got to

534
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 5: be just a vaccine. It's got to be just a vaccine,

535
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 5: just a vaccine. And uh, I think that was wrong.

536
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 5: You couldn't even talk about vitamin C. And there's a

537
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 5: bigger problem that this that that incurs here. We have

538
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 5: a dangerously high level of distrust now of the institutions

539
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 5: on which we depend, and in many cases it is

540
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 5: the malfeasance of these institutions which has caused so much

541
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 5: of this distrust.

542
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: So let's let's just drill down on some of the

543
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: specifics here so that people understand fully your view. Do

544
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: you think that the COVID vaccineans were effective at preventing

545
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: severe illness and death.

546
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 5: I think that the American people deserved to hear the truth.

547
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 5: I think there's a very good argument for the fact

548
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 5: that they did. I do believe that, But I also

549
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 5: believe that there were risks that the government and governmental

550
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 5: agencies knew about, and they did not trust the American

551
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 5: people to make that decision for themselves.

552
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: And do you see any link Have you been convinced

553
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: by any evidence that would show that there's a link

554
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: between autism and other childhood immunizations, which is one of

555
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: the things that he I had.

556
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 5: Not seen evidence. But remember, I'm old enough to remember

557
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 5: that time. I remember that time. I remember Richard Lueger,

558
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 5: who was in Indiana, a Republican senator from Indiana. I'm

559
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 5: pretty sure that lub Yeah, he was from Indiana and

560
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 5: his grandson. There was autism. There was a whole conversation

561
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 5: about mercury, in particular vaccines up. There was a cluster

562
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 5: up in San Francisco. There was a whole conversation about

563
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 5: they didn't want to spend the money to keep the

564
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 5: mercury cold enough. So yeah, I mean, I've heard enough

565
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 5: stuff certainly you heard enough anecdotal stuff that I've I've

566
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 5: always listened. I've never flipped over to anyone perspective, but

567
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 5: I have stood, and I do stand for the kind

568
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 5: of individual, non pharmaceutically based, non pharmaceutically funded, independent research,

569
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 5: whether it has to do a childhood vaccine or any

570
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 5: other vass.

571
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: So, mercury was taken out in two thousand and one, right,

572
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: rates of autism continued to rise.

573
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 3: So the idea that.

574
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: There was a you know, a correlation there and that

575
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: equal causation that seems to have been ruled out exactly.

576
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: I guess bottom line, if you know, for your kids,

577
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: would you have them If you had little kids now

578
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: and they were getting ready to go to school, and

579
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: they had their whole schedule of immunizations, would you get

580
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: them those immunizations? Are there things and in terms of

581
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: your governance, are there things that you would do differently?

582
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: How would your views impact your governance?

583
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 5: Okay, So I have known women who were like PhDs

584
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 5: in biochemistry, women who were not.

585
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 4: Just they didn't know what they were talking about.

586
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 5: These were scientists who were mothers who back when I

587
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 5: was living in Los Angeles particularly, were saying, why is

588
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 5: it that so many more, so many more of these

589
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 5: chemicals are in ours, that there's so much more bundling

590
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 5: compared to people in Europe. Why is it that we're

591
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 5: taking these vaccines so close together compared to how they're

592
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 5: giving them in Europe. And I saw firsthand how these

593
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 5: women were demonized. I saw how they were treated like

594
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 5: they were anti vacs. Listen, I'm running for president. I

595
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 5: know how this system works, and I saw it last

596
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 5: time when I ran. If you even come close to

597
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 5: suggesting that pharmaceutical companies are not just pure as the

598
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 5: driven snow, I see what they do to you. They've

599
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 5: done it to me, and they did it to those women,

600
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 5: So absolutely, I would stand for independent research what's happening here,

601
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 5: and Bobby is absolutely right about that when it comes.

602
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 4: To the way these industries have power.

603
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 5: Look what's happening with our defense budget, Raytheon and Northrope,

604
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 5: Grommanden and Boeing get to regulate themselves. We know how

605
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 5: they're price gouging, whether it has to do with big food,

606
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 5: big chemical.

607
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 4: Big AG.

608
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 5: You have guys who represent Big AG who are heading

609
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 5: the Department of Agriculture. You have a former board member

610
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 5: at raytheon who's heading the Defense Department. So whenever you

611
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 5: have these agencies that theoretically are there to advocate for

612
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 5: us but have now become double advocates, which is impossible,

613
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 5: that's the problem. And so yes, pharmaceutical companies are given

614
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: too much freerrange, and I want to see independent research,

615
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 5: and that's the way it is.

616
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: So to me, doesn't sound like a difference between you

617
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: and RFK Junior, especially in terms of policy outcomes. So

618
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: I'll ask you the same question that Crystal asked him,

619
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: which is, how are you going to convince people, especially

620
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: Democrats who are hearing a lot of what you're saying

621
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: and associated with the right, Like we asked him that

622
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: exact same question. And it does seem to be a

623
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: thorny issue given the way that a lot of the

624
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: Democratic base does feel towards the COVID vaccine, towards childhood

625
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: immunizations and more. No matter what, you're going to have

626
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: to convince them what you're saying is not either kugary

627
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 2: or is not right wing explicitly coded.

628
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 5: I think it's very sad that so many that this

629
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 5: core sort of center what we think of now of

630
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 5: the Democratic Party has such a codependent relationship with the DNC,

631
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 5: such a codependent relationship with the Democratic establishment. Being a

632
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 5: Democrat doesn't mean that you should give up your healthy skepticism.

633
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 5: Being a Democrat shouldn't mean that you give up your

634
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 5: healthy skepticism about Democratic leaders and Democratic presidents. That's what

635
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 5: has happened to this party. So the Democratic Party, you're

636
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 5: really going to be a big tent. Then the Democratic

637
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 5: Party should also be able to include people who are

638
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 5: saying the CDC doesn't come out looking so good in

639
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 5: everything that happened here, and that I believe that a

640
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 5: certain kind of healthy skepticism is part of being a

641
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 5: good citizen, and you shouldn't give that up just because

642
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 5: you're a Democrat and the Democratic line has become something different.

643
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: You have publicly had some turmoil within your campaign. I

644
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: saw a report you can confirm or deny this, that

645
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: a second campaign manager has left the campaign. Can you

646
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: speak to that, and can you speak to your ability

647
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: to run the country when you've had trouble retaining top

648
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: level staff on the campaign.

649
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 5: I wish that breaking points could come today to a

650
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: team meeting. Meet the people on our staff, talk to them,

651
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: recognize the consciousness there, the passion there, the beauty there. Really,

652
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 5: in an organizational sense, if you are tried in a

653
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 5: court of law, there are rules of due process. Somebody

654
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 5: accuses you, and your lawyer says, gets to cross examine them.

655
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 4: I may ask who you work for.

656
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 5: If somebody presents evidence against you, your lawyer gets to

657
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 5: say to the judge that's you know, that's not okay,

658
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 5: and the judge will say throw it out. If the

659
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 5: judge doesn't villa something that jury could see. If you

660
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 5: were tried in the media, particularly political rags, if you

661
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 5: were tried in the court of political opinion, then anybody

662
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 5: can say anything, and anybody can do anything, and you

663
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 5: are sort of powerless, and they do that, and for

664
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 5: whatever reason, they love doing it towards me, And so

665
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 5: I don't know. I keep hearing the song lyric, the

666
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 5: Simon A. Garfunkel song. I would not be convicted by

667
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 5: a jury of my peers if anybody saw the truth

668
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 5: of what's going on there and what has gone on,

669
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 5: I don't believe I would not be convicted by a.

670
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: Jury of my peers.

671
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 5: Now, as far as the fact that two campaign managers,

672
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 5: one of whom now has said I'm willing to come back,

673
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 5: et cetera.

674
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 4: We're fine the way we are now.

675
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 5: Lincoln went through twelve generals before he got to Ulysses Grant.

676
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 5: It's you know, so these narratives are are created once again.

677
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 5: If somebody wants to come talk to my team and

678
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 5: see how it goes. I've heard some stories about things

679
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 5: going on in some other campaigns.

680
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: Oh you should spell Hey, you're talking to millions of

681
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: people right now, not who are okay?

682
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 4: All right?

683
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, lastly, Marian, you know, what is your plan to

684
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: force Biden to have to debate you all, to force

685
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party to have to reckon with you and

686
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: Bobby and anyone else who gets in the race.

687
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: How do we you know?

688
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: Because listen, their plan clearly right now is just to

689
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: shut everyone out.

690
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: And even though I think.

691
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: RFK in particular, but you two have pulled higher than

692
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: the Democrats expected, Biden is still on track to win today.

693
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,479
Speaker 1: So what does the plan look like for you going forward?

694
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, what really matters is what the

695
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 5: people in New Hampshire have to say. What really matters

696
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 5: is what the people in these other early primaries have

697
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 5: to say. There are various ways, as Bobby himself has

698
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 5: said there are other ways to be.

699
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 4: Seen other than through debates with the president. It's important.

700
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 5: I'm sure they're noticing that eight out of ten Democratic

701
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 5: voters are saying that they would like to see debates,

702
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 5: They would like to see someone else. And I think

703
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 5: that if this energy continues and people keep talking about it,

704
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 5: I think it's a very unpredictable moment.

705
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 4: Anything could happen.

706
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 5: And if the polls of Bobby and myself continued to rise,

707
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 5: if the polls of the president continued to fall, poll

708
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 5: numbers continued to fall, I wouldn't be surprised if some

709
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,479
Speaker 5: other Democrats jumped in, And are they going to say

710
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 5: no debates? Then if Gavin Newsom comes in, or Pritzker

711
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 5: comes in, or any of them come in, are they.

712
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 4: Still going to say no debates?

713
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 5: You know, I grew up at a time when Eugene

714
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 5: McCarthy primary Johnson, Bobby Kennedy senior primary Johnson.

715
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 4: No one thought it was weird. This is a democracy,

716
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 4: You're not.

717
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 5: Just they act like it's an anointment just because he

718
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 5: is the incumbent. That's why we have That's why we

719
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 5: have elections. It's not an annoytment. The people get to

720
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 5: choose every four years, and candidate suppression is a form

721
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 5: of voter suppression, and candidate suppression happens in various ways,

722
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 5: and I see how that's happening here.

723
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: No disagreement here, Marianne. Thank you so much for joining us.

724
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 4: We appreciate it.

725
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: Welcome back on the show any time.

726
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you very great to thank you us.

727
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 4: We will see you all later