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Speaker 1: to learn more Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things
Speaker 1: we simply don't know the answer too. Hey guys, welcome
Speaker 1: again to Thinking Sideways. I am, of course Steve, joined
Speaker 1: as always by Joe Devin, and this week we have
Speaker 1: yet another mystery. This week we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: what I would call a conspiracy theory, and that is
Speaker 1: the Lost Cosmonauts. This, of course was a suggestion from
Speaker 1: It was on Facebook by Tom. Yeah. Tom sent that.
Speaker 1: In most of your ago, we've had other people Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: I think Tom was the first one that cover Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll add you to the list and then forget something.
Speaker 1: But I know that we got a bunch of them
Speaker 1: on this one. So the Lost Cosmonauts, also referred to
Speaker 1: as the Phantom Cosmonauts is as I said, I call
Speaker 1: it a conspiracy theory. I find it really interesting because
Speaker 1: there's so many claims and then the counterclaims and it
Speaker 1: just turns into kind of a crazy big ball. I
Speaker 1: get white people are into it and can be a
Speaker 1: little weirded out by it because you know, put yourself
Speaker 1: in somebody's situation in space that isn't gonna make it
Speaker 1: home that and yeah, actually, and there actually are documented
Speaker 1: and people not making it home, so yes, yeah, but
Speaker 1: they are probably not the ones that we're going to
Speaker 1: talk of. That. So to start with, I need to
Speaker 1: preface what we're going to go through because this story
Speaker 1: deals with information that comes out of the Soviet Union
Speaker 1: in the fifties and the sixties. We don't know how
Speaker 1: much of it is actually going to be true because
Speaker 1: they weren't very forthcoming. They censored a lot of information.
Speaker 1: Still aren't very forthcoming. Yeah, and with the fall of
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, we you know, people found in shared records,
Speaker 1: so we have information on a bunch of things cleared up.
Speaker 1: But there are some things that we still don't know.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if the people were going to
Speaker 1: talk about a really existed or not, and b if
Speaker 1: they really did die in a space program, and see
Speaker 1: if they died on the ground or in the air.
Speaker 1: Just don't know, but we weren't talking about Nonetheless, I
Speaker 1: think there were a few people in the Soviet space
Speaker 1: program who died on the ground. We had not died
Speaker 1: on the ground too, though, so it's not unusual. You're
Speaker 1: playing with big, scary, dangerous toys like rockets and stuff. Yeah, yeah, science.
Speaker 1: Science is not always uh, bunnies and rabbits. Bunnies and rabbits, No,
Speaker 1: it's but it's the thing. I'm ferries and gods. Literally,
Speaker 1: no idea what you're trying to All squishy and nice
Speaker 1: and fuzzy and safe, That's what I'm going for. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you. See, this is why we have the smart one,
Speaker 1: because I know what girls are made of. Yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: that's why you have me around. All right. Well, let's uh,
Speaker 1: let's go through the story here. We've got a huge
Speaker 1: laundry list of supposed incidents that happened in the Soviet Union,
Speaker 1: So we've got a huge laundry list of people to
Speaker 1: get into. So we should probably start with the stories
Speaker 1: of all these different people. We're gonna do this in
Speaker 1: sort of chronological order because that's the way I like
Speaker 1: to do it, because I'm easily confused. First off, between
Speaker 1: the years nineteen fifty seven and nineteen fifty nine, three
Speaker 1: cosmonauts are said to have been killed in individual attempts
Speaker 1: to reach space, so one each year fifty nine, and
Speaker 1: we don't know if that really happened or not because
Speaker 1: of the source. But according to the lore, these three
Speaker 1: people died in the Soviet space program trying to get
Speaker 1: to space. The names of these people are and I
Speaker 1: apologize my Russian is not good. I'm going to do
Speaker 1: my very best with these. I've sounded them out a
Speaker 1: dozen times. Hooked on phonics work for me, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna go for it. We have Alexei lit of Ascik,
Speaker 1: Sergei Sheborin, and Andre mit Coff. Those are the three men.
Speaker 1: There is a report of potentially a fourth person that
Speaker 1: died in those years, and that is a woman by
Speaker 1: the name of Maria Gromov. But again we have one
Speaker 1: source for this, and that is a quote unquote high
Speaker 1: ranking check communist who isn't identified, so that sounds reliable.
Speaker 1: Those are our first ones. Next up, we have three
Speaker 1: people in nineteen fifty nine, so this is a separate
Speaker 1: from the ones that I just talked about. In the
Speaker 1: year nineteen fifty nine, three different people killed in a
Speaker 1: botched attempt to get into space. Their names are Peter Dolgov,
Speaker 1: Ivan Kutcher, and Alexei Gruchov. And then we're gonna move forward.
Speaker 1: There's the whole on your list. I told you guys,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of names here. Write them down. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be quiz later. Yeah, spell him, spell him correctly.
Speaker 1: There's extra points. No googling though. Uh we uh. We
Speaker 1: have our good friend Robert Heinlein. Yes, the author Robert Heinlein,
Speaker 1: who says that on the fifteenth of May nineteen sixty,
Speaker 1: while he was traveling through the Soviet Republic, think you
Speaker 1: I think you're right. Yeah he uh. He said that
Speaker 1: he was told by soldiers that they Soviets put a
Speaker 1: man into space that day. Officials, of course, immediately denied
Speaker 1: this as soon as he went up to somebody who
Speaker 1: actually was of rank and file. Oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. Don't know what they're talking about. But
Speaker 1: he wrote about it, and he's shared that story, so
Speaker 1: we have it out there. If what I just went through,
Speaker 1: these seven people plus hind line, if that was all
Speaker 1: that there was to this story, it would have died
Speaker 1: on the vine years ago. There's not enough here to
Speaker 1: give it legs. Some people who there's some people who
Speaker 1: did give it legs. Oh yeah, and they're the brothers
Speaker 1: that were about to talk about the We've got a
Speaker 1: pair of Italian brothers by the name of Giovanni Batista
Speaker 1: and our shield Judica Cordelia. Hopefully I pronounced their names right,
Speaker 1: but that's okay. These guys were in the late nineteen
Speaker 1: fifties and then through the sixties what I would say
Speaker 1: kind of your difficult space nerds at the time, amateur
Speaker 1: radio and orge more like. Yeah, they got into that.
Speaker 1: They started out just being into radio because I think
Speaker 1: their mothers scored a bunch of surplus military radio gear
Speaker 1: and they cobbled everything that they ever had together. I mean,
Speaker 1: they had a real ramshackle set up, kind of made
Speaker 1: their antennas out of whatever they could, and they started
Speaker 1: listening to everything that was broadcast between the Soviets and
Speaker 1: the Americans in the space race. Yeah, they the Sobats
Speaker 1: actually published, they publicized what frequency they were going to
Speaker 1: be communicating on that. What's interesting not all of their
Speaker 1: frequency bluets, some of it, Yeah, they did, The Americans
Speaker 1: did too all that. What's what's interesting is their choice
Speaker 1: of frequencies is they're actually kind of crowded, a crowded
Speaker 1: band of the radio, the radio dial. So why they
Speaker 1: chose that, I don't know that. I didn't research that part.
Speaker 1: So the brothers they've made that made quite a few
Speaker 1: claims of things that they picked up over the airwaves.
Speaker 1: And then I believe it wasn't just sim I think
Speaker 1: they had people, They had friends, and we had people
Speaker 1: helping people. That was the name of their their base
Speaker 1: that they called it. I can't remember. Well, they had
Speaker 1: a base of operations and people would come and go
Speaker 1: and hang out and gather during known launches and they
Speaker 1: would listen and they would record. Well, there's some very
Speaker 1: notable ones that they recorded. And I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go through this bullet point style so I know Devin
Speaker 1: like this. Oh yeah, May sixty a manned spacecraft reports
Speaker 1: it's going off course. November nineteen sixty A faint s
Speaker 1: O S Morse code signal is sent from a spacecraft
Speaker 1: leaving Earth's orbits. And these guys say they confirmed that
Speaker 1: because they could say they did the calculations to figure
Speaker 1: out that it was leaving our orbit and drifting away. Apparently,
Speaker 1: what it is is the way they calculated the lad
Speaker 1: these objects is yeah, they would use the Doppler effects.
Speaker 1: So since those these things in lower lower thor and
Speaker 1: they're traveling pretty fast, they went by a fast overhead,
Speaker 1: so you get the radio signal gets compressed when it's
Speaker 1: headed towards you, and as soon as it passes directly
Speaker 1: over you, then it starts stretching out again. But they
Speaker 1: were they were self taught. I mean, they figured this out.
Speaker 1: So there I would say that maybe their calculations weren't
Speaker 1: exactly perfect, but yeah, so they so they claimed that
Speaker 1: since this SLS signal was getting weaker and since but
Speaker 1: since there was no Doppler effect, that's why they that's
Speaker 1: why they believe it was not zipping by across across
Speaker 1: the sky's overhead. Yeah, that's absolutely right. February one, A
Speaker 1: cosmonaut is, uh, this is audio is recorded suffocating to
Speaker 1: death and this is not something that we do often,
Speaker 1: but the audio is available on the internet and we're
Speaker 1: going to use a little bit of it. So first,
Speaker 1: what we're gonna hear is we're going to hear the
Speaker 1: breathing of this supposed cause men on. And now we're
Speaker 1: gonna listen to is the supposed heartbeat slowing down of
Speaker 1: said cosmonaut. April nineteen six one, a capsule is recorded
Speaker 1: orbiting the Earth three times before re entering the atmosphere.
Speaker 1: And you'll, if you are a fan of space history,
Speaker 1: you're gonna note that's April one. This is several days
Speaker 1: before Eureka Garon's historic flight to be the first human
Speaker 1: in space. It was the twelve. So this the official
Speaker 1: date on this, I believe they say is I've seen
Speaker 1: in different places. I've seen it seventh. I've seen it
Speaker 1: the ninth. I thought it was like five days, so
Speaker 1: I think the seventh. Yeah, But it varies from place
Speaker 1: to place, as a lot of this information does. May
Speaker 1: nine sixty one, and orbiting spacecraft makes an appeal for
Speaker 1: help before going out of control. And this is this
Speaker 1: spacecraft is supposedly piloted by a woman. And this audio
Speaker 1: is very several minutes long, but we're only gonna play
Speaker 1: about fifteen twenty seconds of it. October of nineteen sixty one,
Speaker 1: a cosmonaut loses control of their spacecraft and it veers
Speaker 1: off into deep space. November nineteen sixty two, a space
Speaker 1: capsule misjudges its re entry and bounces off the Earth's
Speaker 1: atmosphere and out into space. Can you do that? You
Speaker 1: got an actual thing? You can bounce skip a stone
Speaker 1: off the surface of the water. You can actually, if
Speaker 1: you come in too shallow that angle, you can bounce
Speaker 1: out the atmosphere. But you gotta be high up, great
Speaker 1: and more things to fear. I didn't. I'm of other things.
Speaker 1: November of nineteen sixty three, if another female cosmonaut dies
Speaker 1: during re entry, and nineteen sixty four April of that year,
Speaker 1: yet another cosmonaut is killed when their capsule burns up
Speaker 1: in the atmosphere upon re entry. So that's a bunch
Speaker 1: of things that they are claiming that they have made
Speaker 1: recordings of. And we'll we'll go to some of this
Speaker 1: in a little more depth later on, but I just
Speaker 1: want to keep moving forward with the story as the
Speaker 1: lost cosmonautor phantom cosmonauts story goes. So we're gonna move
Speaker 1: to another guy that you might have heard about if
Speaker 1: you've ever done any reading on this. And this is
Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of Vladimir Illusion And no um,
Speaker 1: I know I gave you a bunch of information and
Speaker 1: now I'm drawing this way. I know, people hate it
Speaker 1: when I do that important and this guy actually plays
Speaker 1: into that April nineteen sixty one day that we were
Speaker 1: just talking about that five days before Gagarin because everybody
Speaker 1: thinks it was him. Because everybody thinks it was him.
Speaker 1: And let's talk about Vladimir because he was He was
Speaker 1: a test pilot in the military and he had broken
Speaker 1: at least one, but I think several altitude records, and
Speaker 1: according to the lore, he loved that the glory that
Speaker 1: it gave him. But he realized that these guys that
Speaker 1: were going into the space program, we're gonna literally crush
Speaker 1: his records. They were going to destroy um. So somehow
Speaker 1: he gets himself into the space program. I think his
Speaker 1: dad was well connected. Well, his dad was in some
Speaker 1: ways well connected. He was an engineer of some kind,
Speaker 1: maybe in the space program or connected to the rocket programs.
Speaker 1: I think he actually designed military aircraft and built them.
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly, but there is there is what
Speaker 1: jet is named after him, I believe. Okay, Well, the
Speaker 1: point is, according to the story, he either gets in
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the cosmonaut program or he gets
Speaker 1: in late and you know, manages to go through a
Speaker 1: crash course, no pun intended of what it takes to
Speaker 1: be a cosmonaut, and turns out to be the most
Speaker 1: qualified guy to do the job, better than than your
Speaker 1: gregarretttt excuse me, mispronounced his name. According to the theory,
Speaker 1: what then happens is Vladimir gets into the Vostok space
Speaker 1: capsule on the seventh of April, was five days before Ggaran,
Speaker 1: like we were just talking about before, and he shot
Speaker 1: into space and okay, well if that happened, then why
Speaker 1: don't we know about Vladimir and who cares about Yuri?
Speaker 1: Well that's because something reportedly went wrong with his space
Speaker 1: capsule and mission control decided that they had to bring
Speaker 1: him to Earth early. The thing to understand is that
Speaker 1: in the Soviet program, mission control on Earth controlled everything
Speaker 1: in terms of navigation. The cosmonaut wasn't in control of that.
Speaker 1: He was along for the ride. They probably didn't want
Speaker 1: the cosmonaut like firing his retro's early and landing in
Speaker 1: the US and probably yeah, yeah, then his uh by
Speaker 1: bringing him down earlier then he didn't even complete a
Speaker 1: single orbit. Correct, No, according to this story, he made
Speaker 1: several orbits and they brought him home to Earth on
Speaker 1: the third orbit, but because they had to bring him
Speaker 1: down early because something went wrong. I guess he was
Speaker 1: supposed to do five orbits. According to this story, they
Speaker 1: had to bring him down and he landed in China,
Speaker 1: where he then stayed for a year as an honored
Speaker 1: guest of the Chinese governments before then coming home to
Speaker 1: Mother Russia and kind of just disappearing into the background.
Speaker 1: I wonder what they did the Waterdom. Yeah, if anybody's
Speaker 1: ever heard the term honored guest, it's it's not actually
Speaker 1: being an honored guest. It's a spy. So okay, you
Speaker 1: sound confused. Yeah, I guess I'm just confused about why
Speaker 1: they wouldn't why his name wouldn't have been the one
Speaker 1: we all know. Then we're going to cover it up, Okay,
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about in just a minute,
Speaker 1: actually how some of the censorship worked and the way
Speaker 1: that the Soviet government went about censoring things, and that's
Speaker 1: going to kind help us understand what happened of Ladimir. Okay.
Speaker 1: I know it's a little weird, al right, and this
Speaker 1: whole thing, the story is very very difficult unless you
Speaker 1: keep in mind, and I'll just preface it a little
Speaker 1: bit that the Soviets operated on a system of only
Speaker 1: talking about your successes if something could be possibly embarrassing,
Speaker 1: or it didn't go according to plan, it didn't happen,
Speaker 1: swept under the rug out, there were, there were cosmas,
Speaker 1: There was there was one cost, but not too was.
Speaker 1: He was cashiered from the program, and he was airbrushed
Speaker 1: from the photographs of the cos The cosmon did a
Speaker 1: lot of yeah, we're going to talk about him, so yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't trust you. We're there, We're gonna come
Speaker 1: back to it. So as anybody that knows space history knows,
Speaker 1: the one of July nine is when the Americans landed
Speaker 1: on the moon and beat the Soviets to that destination
Speaker 1: ce ce c okay. Well, according to the Lost Cosmos theory,
Speaker 1: the Soviets didn't go down without a fight, and they
Speaker 1: threw a lot of men at the problem to try
Speaker 1: and get there first and killed several of them, kind
Speaker 1: of like the Russians like, we can't do this, We'll
Speaker 1: just throw a bunch of people at it. That's kind
Speaker 1: of true. Hum. And they actually did have a couple
Speaker 1: of accidents sixty nine. Yes, they did well. According to this.
Speaker 1: In the summer of sixty nine, there was an attempted
Speaker 1: launch of a manned mission that of course failed, kills
Speaker 1: everybody on board. You said, the summer of kind of
Speaker 1: distract myself a little bit from the thing. Okay, it
Speaker 1: appears that that that launch wasn't the only one that
Speaker 1: the USSR was trying to put up. They made one
Speaker 1: blunder after another and made being a cosma one of
Speaker 1: their most dangerous occupations. Would it kind of evidently was
Speaker 1: because they had about a fifty success rating with some
Speaker 1: of their rockets. Yeah, there's a lot of our rockets
Speaker 1: blew up to so they did. They did, But I
Speaker 1: think that, uh Court, we had a lot of unmanned
Speaker 1: rockets that blew up more often than not, and we
Speaker 1: you know, we went through extensive safety testing, and I
Speaker 1: know that the Soviets were doing that, but I don't
Speaker 1: know how much of that is reflected in our lore
Speaker 1: that we're going through. They used a lot of animals,
Speaker 1: that is very true. We used monkeys, and in our
Speaker 1: Gemini program we didn't. There's that. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've read the right stuff by Tom Wolf No, I haven't.
Speaker 1: There's kind of an amazing scene in there, you know
Speaker 1: that the first launch with the monkey and the monkey
Speaker 1: comes down. The monkey has been going through simulator training anyway,
Speaker 1: but when they opened up the caps so they thought
Speaker 1: the monkey was going to be an hysterics. Instead, the
Speaker 1: monkeys just sitting backstrapped to his chair with his arms
Speaker 1: crossed across his chest, just looking board like has no
Speaker 1: idea what. And then and then one of that one
Speaker 1: it takes a lot had somebody hands him in an
Speaker 1: apple and Lucky just like without even kind of look
Speaker 1: at he just like reaches out with one hand and
Speaker 1: takes the apple and starts eating. Kind of bored. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty funny book. You should read it. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: well let's go. That's that was the greatest. It was. Uh,
Speaker 1: we have a lore here, that story here that says
Speaker 1: in the Soyas Too, which was supposed to be an
Speaker 1: unmanned test mission, actually was a manned mission and the
Speaker 1: occupant of that capsule was Ivan Stotchnikov and his dog
Speaker 1: Cloaka was a man and dog mission. Then yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: And it's believed that they didn't come back and were
Speaker 1: scrubbed out of history because they were hit by a
Speaker 1: passing meteorite and thrown off course. Yeah. Well, and yet
Speaker 1: one more attempt to get to the Moon before the Americans,
Speaker 1: we have the launch of Andre Mikoyan and another cosmonaut.
Speaker 1: They were supposed to go to the moon, but instead
Speaker 1: they shot past their destination, which was the Moon, and
Speaker 1: drifted off into space. And I really, really really want
Speaker 1: to know if at least somebody was humming back to
Speaker 1: the USSR. I really like this. The only thing I
Speaker 1: can think about, how you managed to miss the Moon?
Speaker 1: It's really big. Was it was the intent of that mission?
Speaker 1: Do you know to actually land on the moon or
Speaker 1: just orbit the Moon? A few times have come back.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really I have no idea overall.
Speaker 1: If if we follow the lore anywhere between eleven two
Speaker 1: dozens of people were killed in the attempt to get
Speaker 1: into space and then be to get to the Moon
Speaker 1: by the Soviet Union and their government in their space program,
Speaker 1: entirely possible. I mean, because not just cosmonauts getting killed,
Speaker 1: other people are getting killed in accidents. Bunch of people
Speaker 1: get killed in accident. The reason that they're that people
Speaker 1: really kind of believe this entire theory is as we
Speaker 1: talked about earliers, all of the cover ups in the
Speaker 1: censorship that went on. Yeah, I mean, they certainly brought
Speaker 1: a lot of this on themselves. And even though they
Speaker 1: angrily denied all these stories, you know, they accepted the
Speaker 1: ones that really demonstratedly happened at sixty seven and sixty nine,
Speaker 1: and they kind of brought it on themselves. Well they did.
Speaker 1: And it's and you know, people who lived through the
Speaker 1: Cold War era just expected that from the Soviet Union.
Speaker 1: Here's a funny story. I went over and saw my
Speaker 1: grandmother today and I was talking to her, and she
Speaker 1: asked me what we were, you know, what the show
Speaker 1: was going to be. And so I was talking to
Speaker 1: her about it, and I'm telling her. She goes, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I can totally see the Soviets doing that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I grew up in that time, I lived through that.
Speaker 1: But that's just what I expect them to do, and
Speaker 1: I see I did. It's just gave me a totally
Speaker 1: different perspective of why this is such a popular, entrenched thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because to me it seems silly. But I'm of a
Speaker 1: different generation. Yeah, I mean, will we run into that
Speaker 1: a lot? I mean, it does run into that, like
Speaker 1: with when we talked about UVB somebody six. You know,
Speaker 1: you run into that a lot because it's popular to say, like, well,
Speaker 1: the Russians are doing all sorts of stuff. We have
Speaker 1: no idea because like they are our nemesis. Americans there
Speaker 1: were just told that those are the bad guys over there,
Speaker 1: you know, And whether that's true or not is who knows.
Speaker 1: But that's that's what we're told. And it's very easy
Speaker 1: to just say, like, well, I don't know that it
Speaker 1: sounds like something they might do it's nefarious, so probably probably,
Speaker 1: even though like I don't, I don't know that that's
Speaker 1: necessarily true. I mean at least to extent that we
Speaker 1: we expected to have to be true. Yeah, let's let's
Speaker 1: go through. I think I've got three different cases here
Speaker 1: of things that were censored and scrub from the books,
Speaker 1: like proved proved things with this with the fall of
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union between and these documents came out I
Speaker 1: think like an eighty nine or so, when documents started
Speaker 1: really people started really pulling some of the stuff out
Speaker 1: and finding out what happened. But the first one we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about is what is referred to as
Speaker 1: the Nodelin catastrophe. This happened on October nineteen sixty. The
Speaker 1: Soviet Union had an ICBM that was being prepped for
Speaker 1: a test flight, which is an intercontinental ballistic missile. It's
Speaker 1: a big missile, goes from country to country with nuclear payload,
Speaker 1: is the intention. Um, But this thing you used the
Speaker 1: worst fuel ever it does. It's Devil's venom. Devil's venom
Speaker 1: is really nasty stuff. It's made of hydrazine and nitric acid,
Speaker 1: which is obscenely corrosive. Really great for call being lift
Speaker 1: and burn, but unfortunately the side effect is that when
Speaker 1: it burns, it makes an amazingly toxic gas that just
Speaker 1: instant killer. I mean, there's no getting around. You don't
Speaker 1: hang around this stuff when it's burning. That seems fairly counterintuitive, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to bomb these people over here, we're going
Speaker 1: to ruin their lives, but at the same time we're
Speaker 1: going to kill ourselves. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's
Speaker 1: probably true. They were all wearing gas masks. You really
Speaker 1: don't stand next to the launching rockets. They were probably
Speaker 1: in buildings nearby. Were supposed to be supposed to be Yeah,
Speaker 1: supposed to be is exactly right, because here's what happens.
Speaker 1: There is a guy by the name of mitro Fan Nodelin.
Speaker 1: He's the one who was the whole thing was named after,
Speaker 1: and he wanted this rocket to launch before the seventh
Speaker 1: of November of that year, which was the anniversary of
Speaker 1: the Bolshevik Revolution. Why so important to him, I don't know.
Speaker 1: But the problem is is that because he pushed the schedule,
Speaker 1: a bunch of safety testing didn't get done. It's always
Speaker 1: the safety testing. It is so never like the rocket
Speaker 1: just didn't get painted. We forgot to put the numbers
Speaker 1: on it, you know. It's it's always the big major
Speaker 1: safety And that was the problem, is that they were
Speaker 1: doing a test on something else. They hadn't done all
Speaker 1: their tests, and the igniter in um stage in the
Speaker 1: second stage goes off, which then lights the first stage
Speaker 1: of the rocket while it's sitting on the ground. You
Speaker 1: don't really want that. That's not what you like in
Speaker 1: the rocket. No, And if you don't know how rocket
Speaker 1: stages work, it's they're basically stacked on top of each other.
Speaker 1: They're a little jet engines. When one burns out, the
Speaker 1: next kicks on both of them. Kicking on at the
Speaker 1: same time. Not the intended plan. Very bad thing. No,
Speaker 1: I don't even see this. This the second stage, of course,
Speaker 1: is sitting on top of the first stage, and so
Speaker 1: when it lights off, the first stage it's not supposed
Speaker 1: to be there anymore. Yeah, so it's a big explosion.
Speaker 1: It was a massive explosion, depending on the sources that
Speaker 1: you read, anywhere from a specific number of seventy one
Speaker 1: to a round number of over two hundred. People were killed,
Speaker 1: and sadly, the people that were right next to the
Speaker 1: rocket died right away because of the explosion. Maybe not sadly,
Speaker 1: maybe luckily, well lucky for them in the way that
Speaker 1: they died. They were right there. They were incinerated instantly.
Speaker 1: The poor guys who were farther distance away when the
Speaker 1: rocket went off and ran evidently couldn't get out of
Speaker 1: the complex that it was in. The fences were shut
Speaker 1: and they died because of the gas, which is a
Speaker 1: terrible way to go. But this whole thing was swept
Speaker 1: under the rug and officially, according to the records, Zellen died.
Speaker 1: It'll plane crash. I mean. People tried to pick up
Speaker 1: this story and they talked about the catastrophe several times
Speaker 1: over decades, but it wasn't until all of the records
Speaker 1: came out after the fall of the Union that we
Speaker 1: found out what really happened. Yeah, so that's uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's why we don't necessarily take them at their
Speaker 1: words for a lot of stuff. Yep. We have another one,
Speaker 1: and this is actually a space program specific story. This
Speaker 1: is of a cosmonaut by the name of Valentin Bondarenko.
Speaker 1: Valentine was selected to be in the Cosmo program and
Speaker 1: in he'd never make it into space though, because on
Speaker 1: the twenty three of March sixty one, he was taking
Speaker 1: part in an endurance test. It was a high altitude thing,
Speaker 1: so they had him in a pressure chamber and he
Speaker 1: was going to be in there, I think for a
Speaker 1: total of fifteen days. The atmosphere was fifty plus oxygen.
Speaker 1: He's doing his daily work. He's got monitors on him,
Speaker 1: you know, a little sticky things. He finishes his job
Speaker 1: for the day. He takes off the monitors, but they
Speaker 1: leave that goose. So he uses a cotton swab and
Speaker 1: alcohol to wipe the goo off. But he's not very
Speaker 1: careful of what he's doing. Instead of throwing that cotton
Speaker 1: swab in the trash. It hits a hot plate that
Speaker 1: he was using to make tea and insiden, I do
Speaker 1: not disagree with you on this. The cotton swab goes
Speaker 1: up in flames the because there's so much oxygen in
Speaker 1: that environment, basically everything burns. It takes half an hour
Speaker 1: to get the chamber open. By the time they get
Speaker 1: it open, he's got thirty reburns over almost his entire body.
Speaker 1: The only part of him that wasn't burned was his feet,
Speaker 1: and that's because he's wearing boots. He dies sixteen hours later.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of amazed that he wasn't already associated, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that is. I was amazed that he lived his long
Speaker 1: as he did. I don't I don't know how that happened,
Speaker 1: but that failure was scrubbed from the books. And as
Speaker 1: you talked about before air brushing of photos, Joe, he
Speaker 1: was air brushed out. There are photos and you can
Speaker 1: actually see the before and after where he's with six
Speaker 1: or seven other guys, you know, arms around him, and
Speaker 1: then the next version it's a blank wall and that
Speaker 1: his arm is like they do good jobs of air
Speaker 1: brushing these photos, but he's gone, completely gone. Yeah, yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: the one that I think, the one that you were
Speaker 1: talking about. The other one that was air brushed out
Speaker 1: is our our next guy, which is Grigory Nil you
Speaker 1: buff believe, Yeah, he and depending on the version, he
Speaker 1: and possibly another cosmonaut candidate got drunk and got into
Speaker 1: a fight with some soldiers and got kicked out of
Speaker 1: the program. But we're air brushed out because they were
Speaker 1: failures and they're the shame. Couldn't be on the space
Speaker 1: program rush. Yes, And here's something else that I need
Speaker 1: everybody to understand is that the space program in the
Speaker 1: United States NASA is it's not a military organization, civilian organization.
Speaker 1: In the Soviet Union, the entire thing was run by
Speaker 1: the military, so therefore it had an extra layer of
Speaker 1: secrecy lumped on top of it from the start before
Speaker 1: they did anything else. So even yeah, and even we
Speaker 1: didn't we were fairly open about our space program, but
Speaker 1: we didn't tell him about every every improvement we made
Speaker 1: in our gear rot. No. But we also didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: airbrush people out of photo. We didn't censor it to
Speaker 1: that level as far as you know, right, as far
Speaker 1: as I know, I could be wrong. So that's that's
Speaker 1: that's the proof or that's the evidence of why people
Speaker 1: believe this story so much. But let's now and I
Speaker 1: know some people like when I do this and some
Speaker 1: people hate when I do this. But we're going to
Speaker 1: start over. We're gonna start up again at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the chronology that I gave and talk about some
Speaker 1: of that. First one we're going to talk about is
Speaker 1: the three individual launches and fifty nine that supposedly killed
Speaker 1: three individuals. Again, that was something that came from a
Speaker 1: quote unquote high ranking Czech military officer. I discount that
Speaker 1: right off the bat. There's no reliable source. That's the
Speaker 1: that's the source every time, so I discount that. Yeah, this,
Speaker 1: uh well, I'll talk more about this later. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of things well, and there's there's some
Speaker 1: blurring of facts and adding of them to different parts
Speaker 1: of the story, which is actually the next one, because
Speaker 1: I told you that in nineteen fifty nine there was
Speaker 1: three cosmonauts who were supposedly have killed Peter Dolgov, Ivan
Speaker 1: Cature Culture, Alexei Gratchov. Those three well, they actually did die.
Speaker 1: They were not cosmic, They were involved in a capacity
Speaker 1: in the space program. They were high altitude jumpers. They
Speaker 1: parachuted from really high up and they were testing suits.
Speaker 1: Well Peter specifically, he died when he jumped out of
Speaker 1: a the balloon or whatever it was. I think they
Speaker 1: were balloons and gondola and a gondola. Well he jumped
Speaker 1: out his he hit the gondola and it cracked his
Speaker 1: his visor and he de pressurized. And the other two
Speaker 1: people who were also high altitude jumpers, they just disappear.
Speaker 1: So it's presumed that they also had some kind of
Speaker 1: accident in their high altitude jumps. But they are then
Speaker 1: moved over into the story because the skies they didn't
Speaker 1: disappear in nineteen fifty nine, it was like a year
Speaker 1: or two later, so the timeframe is wrong. So that
Speaker 1: I I but I believe that is where they actually
Speaker 1: came from. And I will tell you the fourth person
Speaker 1: that we talked about in that fifty nine story of Maria.
Speaker 1: No idea who Maria is. I don't know where Maria
Speaker 1: came from. Probably a fictional character. There's no source. Ever.
Speaker 1: Um let's move now to nineteen sixty with Robert Heinlein. Well,
Speaker 1: it turns out that what those uh, what those military
Speaker 1: men told him they sent a man into space that
Speaker 1: day might have actually been sort of true if you
Speaker 1: know what the Soviets were doing. Yeah, they were right,
Speaker 1: they were. They had a dummy who was very life like.
Speaker 1: I've seen the pictures of him and it's amazing the
Speaker 1: lengths they went to make it look really all. And
Speaker 1: this dummy's name was Ivan Ivanovich, and Ivan is the
Speaker 1: one that they stuck in these chambers and one of
Speaker 1: the you know, because they would send him up with animals,
Speaker 1: they pressurized the suit. They'd have animals in the suit
Speaker 1: to see if the pressure held. They have tape recorders
Speaker 1: playing in the suit so that the microphone in the
Speaker 1: suit was broadcasting the whole time, to see if the
Speaker 1: equipment worked when it went up and came back like
Speaker 1: this is a huge test. One of the things that
Speaker 1: they had to test literally the adjectors seat, because the
Speaker 1: way that the Soviet program worked is the capsule comes down,
Speaker 1: a parachute expands and slows it down, and then our
Speaker 1: friendly cosmonaut gets out of it and parachutes down on
Speaker 1: their own capsules so fast and yeah that they wouldn't
Speaker 1: survive the impact. So that may abe what they were
Speaker 1: testing that these guys saw that. They then told heindline
Speaker 1: very likely that that's what was going Ivan Ivanovich, even Ivanovich,
Speaker 1: he's creepy looking at Smith's. It's like John Johnson, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: or Ivan however you want to say, I'm saying, I'm
Speaker 1: googling it right now. The next stop in our timeline, Oh,
Speaker 1: Devon's looking at the mannequin pictures. He's Creepy's so creepy,
Speaker 1: it's very creepy. The next stop on our timeline dealt
Speaker 1: with Vladimir and his supposed space flight. Yes, if you
Speaker 1: look at the flight of Euriga Garon, you're gonna notice
Speaker 1: something very significant, and that is the number of times
Speaker 1: that he went around the Earth. According to the lore,
Speaker 1: lad one three times and was supposed to go five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is a little strange. Do you want to know
Speaker 1: what else? So it's a fairly complicated thing to launch
Speaker 1: a man in space, and launching two within five days
Speaker 1: of one another. Not I was just gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: I guess if you wanted to take that approach, you
Speaker 1: could say, well, okay, so then the original plan was
Speaker 1: to have your ego around five times. But since it
Speaker 1: failed so catastrophically, before they knew they could do it once.
Speaker 1: So they sent him up and did it once and
Speaker 1: brought him back and everything was fine, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that is that is a train of thought that
Speaker 1: you can take. Yes, But my problem with Vladimir is
Speaker 1: that it always says that he crashed to earth in
Speaker 1: China in his capsule. Oh okay, now I didn't. There's
Speaker 1: no way that he could have survived that impact. Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: And the other thing. But those people can jumble things up.
Speaker 1: Maybe he crashed in and he successfully ejected and it
Speaker 1: was captured. Well, but they say that there was something
Speaker 1: wrong with him and then he was unconscious. That's why
Speaker 1: they had the man they brought it home early. Is
Speaker 1: that he was having some ill effects. Maybe he crashed
Speaker 1: in the ocean, well, but no, according to this, he
Speaker 1: crashed in China. China owns an ocean, well, they do,
Speaker 1: they do. The The official story from the Soviet government
Speaker 1: is that Vladimir was involved in a very severe car
Speaker 1: accident and hurt his leg quite severely, to the tune
Speaker 1: of being in the hospital for a year and then
Speaker 1: a leg injury. I'm assuming that a car accident. You know,
Speaker 1: cars didn't have breakaway zones probably crushed both of his legs,
Speaker 1: and then they had him in the hospital for a year,
Speaker 1: and then they sent him to China for rehab. Makes
Speaker 1: lots of sense. It doesn't, really, But what also doesn't
Speaker 1: make senses that if he really did crash land in
Speaker 1: China and he was in his capsule, the Chinese from
Speaker 1: a medical perspective were not all that advanced at that time,
Speaker 1: and there is no way that they could have treated
Speaker 1: a man who basically had every bone broken his body
Speaker 1: from the advanced people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars
Speaker 1: to get ancient Chinese secret here. I don't understand what
Speaker 1: you mean. I can tell you that, actually it's pretty
Speaker 1: clear where the Vladimir story came from. Was Vladimir was no, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't him. It actually was a British communist. There
Speaker 1: is a paper that was in Britain called the Daily Worker,
Speaker 1: And evidently what happened is these guys heard that there
Speaker 1: was going to be a launch and Vladimir was known
Speaker 1: to be in the program according to this, and they
Speaker 1: guessed of a the date and be who was going
Speaker 1: to be in the rocket, and so on the eleventh
Speaker 1: of April they put out a paper that said that
Speaker 1: five days prior, Vladimir had gone up and was the
Speaker 1: first man in space. And then on the twelve they
Speaker 1: found out what really happened, and they put out another
Speaker 1: paper on the twelve that said it was Gagarin who
Speaker 1: was the first man in space. But because they put
Speaker 1: that paper out, it's been latched onto and used as
Speaker 1: kind of fodder ever since. All right, we're gonna move forward.
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna talk about the the Italian brothers. So
Speaker 1: first off, here's one problem with their recordings. Nobody else
Speaker 1: recorded what they recorded. None of the other listening locations.
Speaker 1: The Americans were listening, the Brits were listening, like the
Speaker 1: French were listening. Somebody else should have picked up what
Speaker 1: they had. And you know, okay, well maybe they got lucky,
Speaker 1: but they have so many things that I just say
Speaker 1: that there's too many things for them to have actually
Speaker 1: been lucky to capture and nobody else has. And there
Speaker 1: are things like, you know, the heartbeat. You know, the
Speaker 1: heartbeat was the monitors that they put on astronauts to
Speaker 1: monitor their their lifestigns don't go through the audio channels exactly.
Speaker 1: It's not like they take a stethoscope to them and
Speaker 1: then put a microphone up to the stethoscope. I don't know, Russia,
Speaker 1: that might be the way they did it. Did you
Speaker 1: ever hear that story about this early space program. It's
Speaker 1: like the Americans realized that we're talking about the pen Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the Americans are realized that pens wouldn't work in
Speaker 1: zero gravity, and so they spent like like millions of
Speaker 1: dollars to develop this special pen that would work in
Speaker 1: zero gs and the Russian geese pencil. Yeah, well no,
Speaker 1: it actually turns out it's not that much smart because
Speaker 1: the reason, yeah, that graphite dust actually like totally screws
Speaker 1: all of the air filtering systems, So you have to
Speaker 1: use a wax pencil. You really can't use the graphite pencil,
Speaker 1: which is what the Soviets were using anyway. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I did just read that and it's cute story. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: So you don't know, it could have been a stethoscope.
Speaker 1: Maybe most likely it was sent back like telemetry, you know,
Speaker 1: so I was converted to any of this audio of breathing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's probably a dog exactly, because they killed a lot
Speaker 1: of dogs in space, some of them came back, but
Speaker 1: most of them didn't. Actually, I don't think any of
Speaker 1: them came back, but maybe they all came back and
Speaker 1: they all are living on that farm that all of
Speaker 1: the dogs forever and ever. I believe, I actually do
Speaker 1: think that some of the dogs came back. I mean
Speaker 1: there was that famous one Laka was it laka or
Speaker 1: like a like a like a yeah, yeah, like I
Speaker 1: did come back. You're right. The other thing that people
Speaker 1: have pointed out about their record rings is the language
Speaker 1: that is used, and that it's wrong, like the woman
Speaker 1: who was peril and dying, and the grammar is wrong.
Speaker 1: The way that things are phrase don't match up. Because
Speaker 1: remember we said that the space program was run by
Speaker 1: the Soviet military. They have a very specific way that
Speaker 1: you announce things. There's an order to it. These guys
Speaker 1: are all trained in that system, and yet none of
Speaker 1: these recordings match that there are people in in peril
Speaker 1: like close to Maybe there was laps and discipline there, yeah,
Speaker 1: may actually no. The Russian was really poor and it's
Speaker 1: actually believed that they probably faked it. The woman, the
Speaker 1: transmission of the woman that you were talking about that
Speaker 1: we played. Some of the grammar is really bad. And
Speaker 1: evidently these brothers, the Italian brothers, their sister was learning Russian,
Speaker 1: according to their story, to help them translate. But about
Speaker 1: that time she would have had oh, good enough grass
Speaker 1: to speak some of the language, but not in good
Speaker 1: enough grass to speak it properly. I don't know what
Speaker 1: you want. They didn't have Google Translate. I'm saying that
Speaker 1: it's probably there, probably made this stuff up. Well you
Speaker 1: think about it, is too as the brothers were clever,
Speaker 1: they were smart, you know, but obviously they either made
Speaker 1: some stuff up or we're just completely bamboozled by somebody else, who,
Speaker 1: by the way, knew what frequencies they were listening on, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the one where they picked up the S O S
Speaker 1: signal and then by by noting that it had no
Speaker 1: it had no Doppler effect. Yeah, no Doppler effect. Then
Speaker 1: they surmised that it wasn't whizzing by every head and
Speaker 1: lower thorit but was but instead was heading directly away
Speaker 1: from the earth. Now, the problem with that if it's
Speaker 1: heading away from the earth, about the if it's achieved
Speaker 1: escape velocities, it's still moving fast, so you're still got
Speaker 1: to get a Doppler effect. Even if it's moving straight
Speaker 1: from Earth. But also the Soviets didn't have unless it
Speaker 1: was moving away in a geo secret synchronous position. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's impossible. Yeah, so, I mean that's uh. And the
Speaker 1: Sobvieus didn't have the ability to They could achieve escape,
Speaker 1: well ascity with a very lightweight object, but not with
Speaker 1: with any kind of capsule, with a capsule. No, they
Speaker 1: didn't have that ability until is when that technology came around. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so some of the other some of the other ones,
Speaker 1: like somebody went out of control and and just flew
Speaker 1: out of orbit. Well, I'm sorry, that doesn't happen. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't happen. Uh. The what you need to and
Speaker 1: I think that Joe, I think this is where you're heading,
Speaker 1: is that their momentum away from the Earth is generated
Speaker 1: by the rocket that they're writing. And then once that
Speaker 1: rocket let's go there in orbit and slowly drifting back
Speaker 1: to the planet. They don't have enough velocity to continue
Speaker 1: to shoot away. They don't have that power at that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't have the capability to do it. No, they don't.
Speaker 1: They don't. I mean, and and the idea of like
Speaker 1: you know, you know, there was another thing in here
Speaker 1: about somebody lost something, they lost control and flew out
Speaker 1: of ore, but bounce off the atmosphere. The other one
Speaker 1: to bounce off the atmosphere and in the space, well,
Speaker 1: it is possible to bounce off the atmosphere, but unless
Speaker 1: the atmosphere just gives you a massive boost, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna fly up in the space. You're just gonna go
Speaker 1: one to a different orbit. And I'm actually probably get
Speaker 1: to go back into the atmosphere and neither either burn
Speaker 1: up or you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's there is
Speaker 1: a lot of problems with their stuff. Now there is
Speaker 1: to add one feather to their cap. There is a
Speaker 1: I'm using air quotes here senior engineer who is part
Speaker 1: of who said he was part of the Soviet space program,
Speaker 1: and in two thousand one he confirmed at the Brothers
Speaker 1: recordings were real, all of them. I don't know which
Speaker 1: ones doesn't It never says which one specifically, but says
Speaker 1: that they actually caught stuff that was right. He was
Speaker 1: a senior engineer, one of those guys. Okay, um, And
Speaker 1: then let's just talk about these, uh, the moon landing
Speaker 1: attempts that were supposed to have happened well, there was
Speaker 1: a rocket test that did explode on a launch pad.
Speaker 1: That does line up with the supposed nineteen summer of
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine loss of somebody in a capsule. Okay,
Speaker 1: that that actually is, except it was an unmanned capsule.
Speaker 1: The other one that I talked about, which is Ivan
Speaker 1: Istanovic and his dog Cloaca, That seems really, really good
Speaker 1: until you look at the fact that the rocket could
Speaker 1: take a small payload with it, but nothing big enough
Speaker 1: to hold the weight of a man and a dog
Speaker 1: and a life support system. Yeah, they could have put
Speaker 1: a small dog in there, maybe, but there was no
Speaker 1: way that they could have done it. And oh wait,
Speaker 1: it turns out the whole thing was a fraud. There
Speaker 1: was an artist, I can't remember what kind of art
Speaker 1: exhibits she called it, but her name is Joan font Cuberta,
Speaker 1: and she made this art exhibit and she faked all
Speaker 1: kinds of documentation that from the outside looks believable. So
Speaker 1: of course the press ran with it until you actually
Speaker 1: started reading it and you knew what you were talking about,
Speaker 1: and then you discovered that it was utter and complete garbage.
Speaker 1: It was it was full of holes, It was wrong
Speaker 1: and what year was that she did her thing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was actually some falsification going on before then too.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so what she with this one of
Speaker 1: the guy and his dog going to the space and
Speaker 1: missing that, that's totally totally buggas that's good. That would
Speaker 1: have felt bad for the dog. And finally the less Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, the last thing I want to
Speaker 1: talk about is the actual theories. Because we have gone
Speaker 1: through all of the history, we should finally talk about
Speaker 1: the theories, which are very easy. That's yes or no,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a binary thing. Here totally has
Speaker 1: a binary theory section. Okay, so our theories are yes,
Speaker 1: it's real. And as we've talked about, there's was some
Speaker 1: weird stuff with the Soviet space program and how they
Speaker 1: scrub people out of the history books. And it's entirely
Speaker 1: possible that there are people who we don't know about
Speaker 1: because whoever was supposed to remove them did such a
Speaker 1: good job that they scrub them out of everything and
Speaker 1: we just don't know. And they could be as simple
Speaker 1: as you know, having died in a simple training accident.
Speaker 1: We will got drunk and thought someone yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: you can see whether it be. I mean, because rockets
Speaker 1: were kind of unreliable in those days, and frankly they
Speaker 1: still are kind of soun I mean, they're more reliable
Speaker 1: in the East to be, but but they still go wonking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you think what they want to keep the whole thing secret.
Speaker 1: And then the mistakes early sixties they had a success
Speaker 1: rate something like that. So I mean, that wasn't exactly
Speaker 1: a job that I would want. Well, flip a coin,
Speaker 1: you'll live and die. I don't want to do that
Speaker 1: every day I think about I mean, when you think
Speaker 1: about the like Apollo eleven, the first Moon mission. Okay,
Speaker 1: you can die on the launch, or you can or
Speaker 1: you can you know, wind up, some mishap happens like
Speaker 1: with Apollo thirteen, and you all like suffocate and dive
Speaker 1: into cold on the way to the moon. Uh number three.
Speaker 1: Then you gotta land on the moon. You gotta get
Speaker 1: an orbit around the moon and land on the Moon
Speaker 1: successfully without crashing. And then and I played that game
Speaker 1: moon Lander. It's harder than you. Yeah. And then when
Speaker 1: you get back into your your moon Lander to take off,
Speaker 1: you better pray you don't know for for a certainty
Speaker 1: that that rockets going to fire off and get you
Speaker 1: off the surface of the Moon and back to your craft.
Speaker 1: And then you gotta get that craft back to Earth.
Speaker 1: You gotta get that craft to the capsule disorbiting above
Speaker 1: and then made up with that and then get it
Speaker 1: back there. And so those guys, I mean the whole
Speaker 1: way along. You know, that's just amazing that most of
Speaker 1: those missions nothing really went wrong for the most part.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to say a thing that you see
Speaker 1: on the internet a lot, but it's it's also amazing that,
Speaker 1: like I carry a computer that's smarter than that in
Speaker 1: my pocket every day, right like my phone, your phone's where.
Speaker 1: They're all smarter than any of the computers that did
Speaker 1: all of that stuff for the astronauts, mostly the astronauts
Speaker 1: that did that stuff. And it's just I've actually talked
Speaker 1: to a guy who had worked at NASA in the
Speaker 1: sixties and it was the old card based system. You know,
Speaker 1: you had the punch cards and that's how the computer worked.
Speaker 1: But I don't know how they did this, but he
Speaker 1: told this great story of it didn't matter what sequence
Speaker 1: you put them into the computer in because you know,
Speaker 1: you put a bunch of cards in it once because
Speaker 1: somehow they had set it up because people had accidents
Speaker 1: that they would drop all of their stuff on the
Speaker 1: ground and you know, the whole thing would be mixed up.
Speaker 1: That didn't matter when you put it in, and somehow
Speaker 1: is self sequenced it, which was amazing to me. He
Speaker 1: tried to explain it, and he was talking to somebody
Speaker 1: else and You're like, you're a NASA scientist, I literally
Speaker 1: have no idea. Yeah I was. I was. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was eavesdropping and I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't I'm not even I can't go there. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on. But pretty clever. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: absolutely amazingly interesting. Yeah, I mean it is. It's incredible
Speaker 1: to think about the amount of sophistication that chance. So
Speaker 1: I don't like thinking about it. Yeah. Well, here's the
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, is that the maybe this is
Speaker 1: true side of the theories is besides the censorship, the
Speaker 1: Soviet Union did some weird stuff that was outright lies
Speaker 1: that was kind of I didn't understand why they did
Speaker 1: it except for they decided somebody decided they had to.
Speaker 1: Here's what I'm talking about, which is covered up the
Speaker 1: whole ejection thing. Well, yeah, because you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there's a conspiracy theory out there that we're not
Speaker 1: getting into, which is that Garren never actually went into space.
Speaker 1: We're ignoring that we never went to the moon. Yes,
Speaker 1: we're ignoring that. But there is a group that in English,
Speaker 1: the name is the International Air Sports Federation, and they
Speaker 1: would record records for flights. Well, their guidelines to be
Speaker 1: a successful space flight was that the person had to
Speaker 1: be in their craft when it left the Earth went
Speaker 1: into space, and be in it when it landed on Earth.
Speaker 1: Because they're dealing with airplanes and if a guy bails
Speaker 1: out of an airplane that means something went wrong with it,
Speaker 1: Whereas the rocket program worked at a space program work differently.
Speaker 1: But the point is, so it's just said, oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: he totally landed. He totally landed in his capsule, so
Speaker 1: it's it totally counts, and they got the record. It
Speaker 1: wasn't until um six months later when the next guy
Speaker 1: went up, whose name that I have suddenly forgot went
Speaker 1: to to Well, when t Toof went up, he made
Speaker 1: no bones about the fact that he had jumped. He
Speaker 1: was he was just no, I totally jumped out of
Speaker 1: that thing. Man there's no way. So that's a weird thing.
Speaker 1: And they did it. They did it one or two
Speaker 1: times with that, the AI f to get records and
Speaker 1: it was really for the longest space travel I think
Speaker 1: is what was his name again to yeah, he went
Speaker 1: around Yeah, So he got the record of longest man
Speaker 1: in space and they did the same thing with him,
Speaker 1: except he was like total lie. But whatever, I don't care.
Speaker 1: You're paying me the uh this is this is my
Speaker 1: favorite part of the It's true though, is that one
Speaker 1: of the sources that you will be given to prove
Speaker 1: that this whole thing is real, is our good friend
Speaker 1: Fidel Castro the most reliable. Yes, Because in there's a
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of Arnaldo Mendez. He was the
Speaker 1: first Cuban to go into space. He went into space
Speaker 1: aboard the soyty eight. That year. Castro gives a speech
Speaker 1: where he's talking about the joys of you know, their friend,
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, and the fact that he had gone
Speaker 1: to Gagarin's office, which was still maintained, and then he
Speaker 1: had also been taken to another room that was called
Speaker 1: the Hall of Martyrs for all of the people who
Speaker 1: died in the space program. Trying to get into space,
Speaker 1: except that I did a little digging and I found
Speaker 1: that speech and I pulled it up and Castro says,
Speaker 1: none of that. So I'm sorry, but that was actually
Speaker 1: shoehorned in. But you will see that reference happen. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna move on to the other half of
Speaker 1: our binary theory, which is new didn't really happen, um,
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, I fall on that side of
Speaker 1: the theories. I think everybody's listened to us for the
Speaker 1: last hour or whatever it is, knows that that's where
Speaker 1: I'm at. Here's my reason for it. The Soviet Union
Speaker 1: announced the Garins flight and eminent landing on Earth thirty
Speaker 1: minutes before he touched down. Eminent landing, what did I say? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, imminent, eminent potato tadda, um, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know words. So come on, guys, I'm here for my
Speaker 1: good looks, shiny bald head forever. Yeah, well, we'll see
Speaker 1: what happens. Anyway. They announced his flight thirty minutes before
Speaker 1: he's gonna land. Okay. Now, if they've done all these
Speaker 1: other attempts where they had gotten people into space and
Speaker 1: then it's screwed. Up. Why did they choose this particular
Speaker 1: flight to announce before it had successfully come down? Well, exactly,
Speaker 1: I mean, because they had plenty of successes Gagara and afterwards,
Speaker 1: and yeah, but the guys who died before and he's
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what's that guy? Doesn't make sense? Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the case of in the case of Gager, and
Speaker 1: probably what happened with the whole newspaper story and the
Speaker 1: Daily Worker is what they did as the Soviets, And
Speaker 1: they had the pattern from the beginning of Boss Talk
Speaker 1: and Gagarin was last talk one. They would leak official
Speaker 1: word of maybe a week or so, a week or
Speaker 1: two ahead of the actual launch, they would leak something
Speaker 1: and so probably what they published was the leak, the
Speaker 1: sort of leaked announcement of Gagarin's launching, and then of
Speaker 1: course the official announcement was after the launch, then they
Speaker 1: would officially announce it. They repeated that pattern again. Uh.
Speaker 1: Several months later, when they launched Caermon Tita into into orbit.
Speaker 1: It was July twenty nine. A source in Moscow reported
Speaker 1: the next man flight would be would be taking place
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks, within a couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: and that they would there would be a much longer play.
Speaker 1: And then a week later t TOP was launched into space.
Speaker 1: They officially announced it to orbit of the Earth sixteen
Speaker 1: times and then came down. And so that was the
Speaker 1: pattern all the way throughout their entire program. And obviously
Speaker 1: they waited to announce it until after the launch because
Speaker 1: rockets do blow up, so that's why they waited to
Speaker 1: announce it. So if you want to believe in this
Speaker 1: whole thing, what you have to believe is that there
Speaker 1: was a successful public program which was announced ahead of time,
Speaker 1: and in parallel with that, and rough at the same time,
Speaker 1: there was a big fail program which was secret where
Speaker 1: everybody died. Yeah, that's what It's almost as if they
Speaker 1: had like three launches at a time planned, so if
Speaker 1: one blew up, they just launched the next, and then
Speaker 1: if that blew up, they launched the next, so they had,
Speaker 1: you know, they had a one in three chance of
Speaker 1: getting a successful thing. To be honest, that like brings
Speaker 1: me a little comfort because you know, my whole big
Speaker 1: thing with my problem with thinking about people lost in space,
Speaker 1: which is why I've been so quiet this episode is
Speaker 1: um is because I always think, like, well, there's nothing
Speaker 1: we could do for them. Like that thought terrifies me.
Speaker 1: But hey, maybe the Russians actually just have like twenty
Speaker 1: rockets at any given time where they're like that one
Speaker 1: blew up, great, let's do this one next, next. So
Speaker 1: maybe like maybe this fear is totally unfounded. Maybe they're
Speaker 1: always ready to just like throw somebody into space real quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's comforting out, it is. Take it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I'm gonna I'm gonna put the
Speaker 1: final nail in the coffin of this thing. Um okay.
Speaker 1: So in July nineteen two, guy named Frank Edwards published
Speaker 1: an article in Fate magazine called those Lost Soviet Astronauts,
Speaker 1: And prior to this, in the Vostok program, the Soviet's
Speaker 1: actually had a and put a woman in space. They
Speaker 1: had had. One of the assertions he made in the article,
Speaker 1: and he made a lot of assertions in the article,
Speaker 1: was that she was the first, not the first woman
Speaker 1: in space, she was only the first woman who survived. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he talked a lot, And so I think that's where
Speaker 1: Maria what's her name, that we that you said you'd
Speaker 1: never found any of your reference to anywhere. I think
Speaker 1: that's probably where she came from. As the Frank Edwards article,
Speaker 1: you wrote a lot of stuff about. You know, I
Speaker 1: haven't actually seen this article. I wasn't able to find it.
Speaker 1: I read a long takedown of it somewhere else on
Speaker 1: the Internet by a guy that was writing about it
Speaker 1: back and in the mid seventies. He said that Edwards
Speaker 1: misspelled every Russian name he quoted, non existent source, He
Speaker 1: jumbled up the names of the cosmonauts and the launch dates. Uh.
Speaker 1: He also talked a lot about September nineteen sixty event
Speaker 1: that involved a Russian test pilot named Pierre to or
Speaker 1: deut Dologoff, who was quote tracked for twenty minutes by
Speaker 1: stations in Turkey, Japan's, England, and Italy unquote. But none
Speaker 1: of those stations actually had actually ever attracted them, like
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, the brother the Italian brothers, you know,
Speaker 1: didn't you know they attract these things, and nobody else
Speaker 1: reported that actually hearing anything about that from any of
Speaker 1: these spacecraft. The head the Jodrell Bank Listening station in Britain,
Speaker 1: the head of the of that in nineteen sixty three,
Speaker 1: wrote that there's no reason to believe that there have
Speaker 1: been any unsuccessful man space attempts by the U. S
Speaker 1: s R. In christ I was prior to nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 1: But but still they had a good record up until
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three at last. Anyway, a lot of this
Speaker 1: stuff made its way into the mainstream media from this
Speaker 1: particular guy, from this particular article. The article itself actually
Speaker 1: attracted a lot of attention, and see the Washington Evening
Speaker 1: Star in nineteen sixty two and May sixty three, the
Speaker 1: New York Journal American. A lot of these, a lot
Speaker 1: of these are papers that don't seem to exist anymore.
Speaker 1: Baltimore Son and some others. And it's just another reason
Speaker 1: not to believe everything you read the papers. But Frank Edwards,
Speaker 1: do you recognize that name? Yeah? I should, and I
Speaker 1: don't remember why. Yeah, yeah, he's so. He's he's the
Speaker 1: guy that created the anti Couney Lake mystery. He is
Speaker 1: the guy he took the took the It took a
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties article by Emmett Kellagher. Decades later he spotted
Speaker 1: into a big elaborate story and the original article it
Speaker 1: was like a half dozen tents or something, five to
Speaker 1: six Indian tents and the camp was deserted and it
Speaker 1: was allmosterious and kind of creepy. Yeah, but and that
Speaker 1: was it though. It's just a little campra a little
Speaker 1: camp campsite basically. Yeah. Frank Edwards in the sixties published
Speaker 1: a book called Stranger than Fiction I think it was called,
Speaker 1: and he popped it way up and now that the
Speaker 1: village in the village of Antioquney Lake was dozens of
Speaker 1: wooden huts. Yeah, so he did he evidently from what
Speaker 1: Joe found, I didn't find this source, but Joe found
Speaker 1: that he also may be responsible part of this story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's probably nine. Frank Edwards created this whole
Speaker 1: thing out a whole cloth, just like he did any lake.
Speaker 1: And you read up. A good point is that if
Speaker 1: if others had heard this stuff that was going on,
Speaker 1: if it was the Russian failures, the Americans most you
Speaker 1: know us, as the Americans, we had a big reason
Speaker 1: to let the world know that the Soviets were screwing up.
Speaker 1: Why would we conceal it if we had heard it?
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things he gets pointed as well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's Cold War. We wanted to put as
Speaker 1: much egg on their face as we could. I mean,
Speaker 1: I suppose you could argue that, uh uh, maybe it
Speaker 1: was some sort of the CIA black op and that
Speaker 1: they actually put out these BS rumors and everything to
Speaker 1: try to make the Soviets look bad. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's possible maybe or maybe Frank Edwards was a CIA agent,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they paid him some money. It was
Speaker 1: a good spin doctor. Yeah, but I bet I think
Speaker 1: again that whenever, whenever you're looking too when I saw
Speaker 1: a mystery and you hear the name Frank Edwards, just yeah, yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: Well you guys have any I'm out of stuff here,
Speaker 1: and I know we've gone over this pretty extensively. You
Speaker 1: have anything else? If you haven't listening to any Lake episode,
Speaker 1: sorry I spoiled it for you. Way to go, Joe. Well,
Speaker 1: you can find this episode, as well as the Arecuney
Speaker 1: Lake episode, as well as all of our episodes and
Speaker 1: some of the research for every story on our website.
Speaker 1: The website is going to be thinking Sideways podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: You can download and stream from there. I know a
Speaker 1: lot of people get their episodes from different streaming apps.
Speaker 1: We're on just about all of them, or people will
Speaker 1: still and a lot of people still get it from iTunes.
Speaker 1: If you're on iTunes, do leave a comment and a rating.
Speaker 1: We prefer the positive, but go ahead and leave a
Speaker 1: comment and a rating. If you have something negative to say,
Speaker 1: email us we can talk about because I yeah, usually
Speaker 1: they're they're very episode specific complaints and I think that
Speaker 1: they can probably talk through some of that or like
Speaker 1: the sound quality though of the old episodes is really bad.
Speaker 1: We know. We are of course on social media, so
Speaker 1: we are on the Twitter, we are thinking sideways, We're
Speaker 1: on the Facebook, the fast Book. We all have a
Speaker 1: fast Book page and a fast Book group, and we
Speaker 1: have lots of people who talk to us on that thing.
Speaker 1: So you can totally find us there. What is what
Speaker 1: does Joe's find us? Friend us like us? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: lots whoa we Yeah, I always forget. We have a subreddit,
Speaker 1: which what is it done? It's okay and there it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty dead right now. So if you're a reddit user,
Speaker 1: if you're one of those like hundreds of people who
Speaker 1: have managed to find us through like the Unresolved Mysteries
Speaker 1: I've read it or anything like that, it's just joined
Speaker 1: that one too. It could be fun, you never know, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're trying to do some people are we're trying, you know,
Speaker 1: why not. The main form of direct communication with us,
Speaker 1: of course, would be email. That's the main sword of
Speaker 1: our lives. Yes, the thing that we get the most of.
Speaker 1: You are more than welcome to send us an email
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. Episode suggestions, conversations,
Speaker 1: questions or concerns, their corrections, send it all to us.
Speaker 1: We'll answer it all. Might take us day at three four,
Speaker 1: but we will get a lot of them. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: there's just three of us that we have jobs inn
Speaker 1: one of these days. Your cats don't count Joe uh oh.
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Speaker 1: that helps us out a lot. Yeah, if you pla
Speaker 1: a million bucks in episode, of course, you can tell us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm willing to be owned for that much. Okay, um, okay,
Speaker 1: well that's all I've got show. We will talk to
Speaker 1: everybody next week. Folks, Hey, did you guys know that
Speaker 1: when astronauts who have been on this space station for
Speaker 1: a long time, when they come back, they often forget
Speaker 1: that gravity exists really because you know, when you're in
Speaker 1: in the space station, you can just like let something
Speaker 1: go and it just sits there for a minute. Apparently
Speaker 1: like they do that and like once they're back on
Speaker 1: our several times, Yeah, they forget like that apple is
Speaker 1: not going to flip next one of the day. I
Speaker 1: love it. Bye everybody, Bye, No