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Speaker 1: Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode, So

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Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here

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Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for

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Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.

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Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's just me

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Speaker 2: James today and I'm joined by Jamie who is a librarian,

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Speaker 2: and we are here to discuss the pending federal cuts

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Speaker 2: on library funding and I guess years of attacks on

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Speaker 2: library funding. So welcome to the show. Jamie, thanks for

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Speaker 2: joining us.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really great for me because I have

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Speaker 2: been trying to find librarian for a very long time

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Speaker 2: to talk to us on the podcast. I understand that

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Speaker 2: lots of people have been like really concerned that we

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Speaker 2: cover this, but also very afraid for their jobs, which

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Speaker 2: is a rough position to be in, So thank you

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Speaker 2: for coming on. I thought we'd start with like there

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Speaker 2: was an executive order on the fourteenth of March I

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Speaker 2: think it was called something like further something the federal bureaucracy, cutting, slashing, diminishing, whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't really care. One of the outcomes

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Speaker 2: of this was I believe the Trump administration moving towards

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Speaker 2: a complete closure of IMLS. Is that right?

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Speaker 3: So it depends upon how much joj and Trump and

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Speaker 3: company are going to listen to Congress, because Congress has

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Speaker 3: already funded IMLS, just the Institute of Museum and Library

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Speaker 3: Services for this year, so that money already exists, it's

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Speaker 3: already been allocated, and so in theory, they should be

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Speaker 3: good for at least a year, and then next year

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Speaker 3: when the budget comes up again, it should be up

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Speaker 3: to Congress because Congress created this institution and Congress funds it.

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Speaker 3: But the Executive Order and the commentary on it does

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Speaker 3: say that they would like to dissolve it kind of

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Speaker 3: as soon as possible, definitely next year. So it's really

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Speaker 3: up in the air about how fast things would move,

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Speaker 3: what exactly would happen, if it would be this year,

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Speaker 3: if it'd be next year, whether anyone's going to listen

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Speaker 3: to Congress.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we will find out, I guess. So can you

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Speaker 2: explain for listeners who aren't familiar what IMLS is and

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Speaker 2: what it does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's, as I said, the Institute of Museum

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Speaker 3: and Library Services, And so basically they are allocated money

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Speaker 3: by Congress every year and then they hand it out

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Speaker 3: to states, especially them, who kind of break it down

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Speaker 3: into other grants. They give grants to states and libraries

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Speaker 3: and institutions for things that museums and libraries do. So

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Speaker 3: that includes things like on the museum side, maybe you know,

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Speaker 3: putting together programming or doing big digitization projects. I used

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Speaker 3: to work at an institution where we had a grant

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Speaker 3: that did a lot of digitization of historic documents. And

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Speaker 3: on the library side, they do all sorts of stuff,

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Speaker 3: especially for public libraries. They end up funding things like

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Speaker 3: summer reading programs, equipment, especially for Internet access, you know,

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Speaker 3: all this stuff related to job training and those services

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Speaker 3: that libraries offer. And interlibrary loan is a big one,

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Speaker 3: so that people can access materials of their library doesn't hold,

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Speaker 3: but it's held by other libraries. And rural libraries and

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Speaker 3: tribal libraries especially really really benefit from this. Every single

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Speaker 3: state and territory in the country gets these funds.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I was, I was wondering why who fund

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Speaker 2: it interlibrary loans so that they're the ones who facilitate

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Speaker 2: like the trandsporting of the books.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, depending on how your library, some

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Speaker 3: libraries will fund it from their operations budget. But if okay,

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Speaker 3: you know, especially for small rural public libraries where that

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Speaker 3: might be very expensive, that is one thing that these

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Speaker 3: grants go to is interlibrary loan.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, So there are lots of very important services.

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Speaker 2: And what would it mean if we didn't have that

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Speaker 2: IMLS budget at all? Like, what would it mean especially

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Speaker 2: for like, like you said, those kind of libraries that

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Speaker 2: are financially I guess more marginalized in tribal libraries and

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Speaker 2: rural areas and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So I first want to mention that the entire budget

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Speaker 3: of IMLS for twenty twenty four was something like two

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty six million dollars. We're not talking about

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Speaker 3: huge sums of money in terms of the federal government.

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Speaker 3: It comes out to about seventy five percent per person

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Speaker 3: in the country. So yeah, we're not going to be

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Speaker 3: saving on our taxes if this goes away, but that

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Speaker 3: money makes a really big difference. So even smaller states

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Speaker 3: that you know, maybe have a million people in it,

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Speaker 3: might see a couple million dollars of these grants per year.

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Speaker 3: And so what that would mean is that the things

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Speaker 3: that maybe not all of them, but most of the

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Speaker 3: thing that these grants cover would not be there. So

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Speaker 3: that means that there wouldn't be summer reading in some places.

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Speaker 3: That means that they wouldn't be able to buy the

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Speaker 3: hot spots that they lend out to people who don't

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Speaker 3: have internet at home. That means that maybe there wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be the class that teaches your grandma how to not

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Speaker 3: get caught in a fishing scam. So all sorts of things,

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Speaker 3: those things just wouldn't be there because there's probably not,

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Speaker 3: especially in red states, other funds that are going to

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Speaker 3: come to cover that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think I was looking online and that

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Speaker 2: by Judy something, it's something like zero point zero zero

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Speaker 2: three percent of the federal budget is going to It's trivial.

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Speaker 3: It's so small, right, Yeah, you could like take the

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Speaker 3: I don't know, the gold toilets away from the Navy

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Speaker 3: and cover it in yeah, right, Like it's so small, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and yet it has this enormous outsized impact. You know,

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Speaker 3: the statistics say that every dollar spent on imls returns

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Speaker 3: two dollars to the economy. So it's actually, if you're

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Speaker 3: going to measure it that way, highly beneficial, especially to

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Speaker 3: these more marginalized areas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we should talk about that because I think

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Speaker 2: if people like maybe they just don't happen to go

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Speaker 2: to the library, maybe they don't you know, realize they

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Speaker 2: have services they need, or maybe they don't live in

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Speaker 2: the US. The library is not just a place where

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Speaker 2: you can go and borrow the books, right, Can you

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Speaker 2: explain some of the services that libraries provide, like you

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Speaker 2: mentioned some, but they really help people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, in for better or for worse, public libraries

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Speaker 3: in the United States have become the social safety net

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Speaker 3: of last resort because they already exist almost everywhere and

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Speaker 3: it's so hard to get you know, not right now,

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Speaker 3: but even in the past couple decades, other social programs

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Speaker 3: started in many parts of the US that things kind

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Speaker 3: of just get lumped into the libraries. So now you

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Speaker 3: get your tax forms there, maybe they have a social

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Speaker 3: worker on staff. It's the place that homeless folks can

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Speaker 3: sit when it's snowing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so that kind of is like a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Of side from what we're talking about right here, but

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Speaker 3: I really do want to point out that public libraries

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Speaker 3: have become the social safety net in many many places,

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Speaker 3: so that aside, you know, offerings of aside from books

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Speaker 3: and other media including ebooks, audiobooks, movies, and lots of formats, magazines, newspapers,

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Speaker 3: there are tons of classes about all sorts of things,

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Speaker 3: especially technology claus It's a place that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people it's their only reliable Internet access. So you know,

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, you can't do mostly anything without

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Speaker 3: the internet. You can't get a job without the internet,

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Speaker 3: you can't maybe pay your bills without the internet. So

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Speaker 3: that's a reliable place that people who don't have internet

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Speaker 3: for various reasons. Maybe they live so far out in

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Speaker 3: the country that just doesn't go there unless you have

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Speaker 3: satellite right even now, or maybe you can't afford it

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Speaker 3: or whatever, or there's one computer in your house and

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Speaker 3: there's six kids and someone has to do their homework,

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Speaker 3: so what everyone else is going to do, so then

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Speaker 3: the computers themselves. And then also the other thing that

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Speaker 3: I am less also does is those grants will sometimes

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Speaker 3: purchase research databases. So if people kids, especially are trying

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Speaker 3: to do their homework. Again, like children's and teens programming

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Speaker 3: is another thing between homework help, social things clubs. So

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Speaker 3: in a lot of places where there's not much going on,

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Speaker 3: it's one of the places where young people can go

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Speaker 3: in the afternoon or on the weekend and not be

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Speaker 3: getting in trouble, either because they're making trouble or the

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Speaker 3: adults think they are. Because there's somewhere productive to be.

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Speaker 3: There's somewhere that's inside supervised or something to do. And

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Speaker 3: so that's the kind of stuff we talk about in

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Speaker 3: normal times when we're trying to fight for like weekend

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Speaker 3: service or later hours. But if we're looking at it

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Speaker 3: in the lens of IMLS, the building might be open,

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Speaker 3: maybe because maybe they have the foundational operationals. But but

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Speaker 3: then there won't be these programs, there won't be these resources.

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Speaker 3: There will just be a bunch of books on the shelves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like, I don't know, I'm amazed how many

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Speaker 2: of my friends and neighbors don't understand how much celebrity does.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm forever Like San Diego A, housing prices are

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Speaker 2: ridiculous and no one seems to want them to not

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Speaker 2: be ridiculous with lots of us do, but we don't

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Speaker 2: get to choose it. And so like we have a

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Speaker 2: larger house population, and I'm always like helping my in

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Speaker 2: house neighbors go to the library and give them a

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Speaker 2: ride or whatever so they can yet, like you say,

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Speaker 2: access internet services life for benefits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or just like sit and read the paper and

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Speaker 3: know what's going on in the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like not get harassed by the cops just

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Speaker 2: for existing, which is the rest of their existence here. Certainly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: these are massively important. I think most people like have

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Speaker 2: it no one because there's not really a big like

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Speaker 2: fuck the library's movement, you know, like I think people

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess that's the

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Speaker 2: whole Like people should only read stories if they conformed

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Speaker 2: and whatnot. Yeah, well fuck those people absolutely. Yeah. Talking

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Speaker 2: of fuck those people, we unfortunately have to pivot to ads,

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Speaker 2: so you know, here is some unfortunate advertisements. All right,

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Speaker 2: we're back talking to people I dislike. Actually, San Diego

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Speaker 2: mayor Todd Gloria, who was elected in twenty twenty and

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Speaker 2: re elected shamefully this year, which is very disappointing. One

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Speaker 2: of his first actions was to propose a budget which

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Speaker 2: increased the bunding to the police, surprise, and decrease the

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Speaker 2: funding to the libraries. It would lead to them closing

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Speaker 2: for an extra day. Right, and this is our quote

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Speaker 2: unquote progressive mayor, who you know has been anything but

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Speaker 2: but this isn't a particularly uncommon scenario, right. I've spoken

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Speaker 2: since then to librarians around the country who, for the

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Speaker 2: last at least half decade have faced funding cuts. Can

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Speaker 2: you explain, like, why doesn't the state see value in

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Speaker 2: these services? I mean, I don't wanted to speak for

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Speaker 2: you know, the Democrats defunding the libraries to give the

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Speaker 2: cops more money, but can you explain, like why there

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Speaker 2: has been this ongoing assault on library budgets.

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Speaker 3: So you know, you're talking about the last decade and

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Speaker 3: a half decade. I think we can really trace it

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Speaker 3: back much farther, at least thirty years to the Clinton administration. Actually, okay,

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about the Democrats, but even you know,

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Speaker 3: the roots farther back than that, because we have a

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Speaker 3: neo liberal problem. Right, So it's basically the idea that

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Speaker 3: all activities should generate obvious immediate monetary profit, that everything

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Speaker 3: should be run by a business, that everything should be

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Speaker 3: subject to the market, quote unquote, And so that's where

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Speaker 3: we are with libraries. Is that even though I can

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Speaker 3: sit here and say every dollar that the IMLS spends

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Speaker 3: generates two dollars of economic activity, then that somehow isn't

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Speaker 3: even good enough because when the powers that be look

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Speaker 3: at libraries, they just see money being flushed down the

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Speaker 3: toilet and that's the only way they can measure anything.

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Speaker 3: So if you look at it and you're just saying, well,

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Speaker 3: this is a place we spend money. This doesn't create money,

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Speaker 3: This doesn't make more money happen. The idea that everything

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Speaker 3: should be run by a business and everything is it

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Speaker 3: should be subject to market logics, that that would say, well,

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Speaker 3: if we're going to subject everything to market logics, libraries

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Speaker 3: have no value because we're only measuring it. And can

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Speaker 3: this make the balance sheet? Can this make number go up?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And even though libraries do make number go up, it's

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Speaker 3: not obvious. You can't make it obvious. There's no direct

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Speaker 3: line between what libraries do and number go up, even

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Speaker 3: though there are actually is for example with IMLS. So

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Speaker 3: you know, starting during the Clinton administration, when the federal

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Speaker 3: government changed, and how the federal government work changed very

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Speaker 3: much under the guise of increasing service quality, but what

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Speaker 3: they actually did was lay off a quarter million workers

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Speaker 3: and you know, turn everything into contract work instead of

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Speaker 3: regular labor. And that I think filtered down from the

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Speaker 3: federal level into states and municipalities, so that those levels

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Speaker 3: of government too also started to look at how they

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Speaker 3: ran their government things. And in many places public libraries

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Speaker 3: are arms of local government. That those two should also

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Speaker 3: be run like a business and be subject to market logics,

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Speaker 3: and therefore number does not go up. We don't value this,

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Speaker 3: and that's basically it is that you know. There, it's

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Speaker 3: hard now that we've had thirty years of overt neoliberalism

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Speaker 3: in our government system and a couple decades more of

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Speaker 3: less obvious versions of it to make government, which is

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Speaker 3: now being run like a business, even in the best

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Speaker 3: of times, value things that aren't that aren't valued strictly monetarily, right,

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Speaker 3: So there's no cultural value. And even if the monetary

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Speaker 3: value isn't extremely obvious, if somehow doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Count, yeah, yeah, I guess it. Kind of. I used

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Speaker 2: to lecture it, so do lecture a university actually starting

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Speaker 2: again next month, but like we pivoted towards like everything

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Speaker 2: has to be stem in education Germany because.

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Speaker 3: So that'll make money or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know why, because like Bill Gates make

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Speaker 2: the line go up, and yeah, we lost so much

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Speaker 2: that has not just intangible value you say, but actual

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Speaker 2: tangible value, very very obvious value. But nonetheless, like like

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Speaker 2: you say, it's not easy to purn on a graph,

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Speaker 2: so it disappears.

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Speaker 3: Right, and then you know, even though cops also don't

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Speaker 3: make money, yeah, in a direct sense, somehow we can

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Speaker 3: still fund that. So it really shows that like in

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Speaker 3: the case of where you are, but the carcel solution

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Speaker 3: is now the solution we have. Yeah, and when we

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Speaker 3: sit here as abolitionists and we say, well, let's get

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Speaker 3: rid of all that stuff, and people say, well, what

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Speaker 3: are you going to do instead, our answer is often

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Speaker 3: it would be so different that it wouldn't be necessary,

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Speaker 3: so we'd have prevention of the entire situation. And that's

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Speaker 3: one of the things that libraries offer is prevention of

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Speaker 3: the entire situation, making vaslavs of the carcial state unnecessary.

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Speaker 3: So there's a conscious choice there, especially when money is

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Speaker 3: being taken out of the balance sheets of a city

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Speaker 3: government from the libraries and put into the cops of

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Speaker 3: this carcural choice of saying, we'd rather everyone in life

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Speaker 3: is shit, so we can throw them in jail. Then

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Speaker 3: everyone have a nice life and no one would have

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Speaker 3: to go to jail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they can come read a book instead,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, it would be nice. It reminds me of

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Speaker 2: one of the big projects of the anarchists in Spain

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties was to create popular education centers,

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Speaker 2: which included libraries, right, And they funded these entirely. They

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Speaker 2: were not funded by the state. The state was not

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Speaker 2: interested in making libraries in nineteen twenties ninety thirties in Spain,

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Speaker 2: and they funded them from popular subscription and from people

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Speaker 2: union dues, and they built these atta nails which are

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Speaker 2: now really beautiful places. So one of the places I

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Speaker 2: did my PhD in Barcelona, and like, I wonder if

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Speaker 2: there is I guess it's it's very hard for us

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Speaker 2: to conceive of like a library without the state in

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Speaker 2: the United States, right, And it like rich people putting

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Speaker 2: little libraries in in their middle class neighborhoods is not

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Speaker 2: the same thing, right, As much as they'd like to

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Speaker 2: think it is like your little phone box library. It

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Speaker 2: is not replacing these services. So like, is there a

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Speaker 2: model for like recreating this in a way that isn't

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Speaker 2: reliant on the state, which seems increasingly hostile to it.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a couple models, and it depends upon

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Speaker 3: how far down the revelution you go. So the example

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Speaker 3: you gave of Spain, we have contemporary with that and

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Speaker 3: slightly more recent versions of that in the US. So

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Speaker 3: the Workmen's Circle, now the workers circle, they funded really

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Speaker 3: wonderful culture programs, including libraries. Unions often had libraries, especially

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Speaker 3: back when they used to have more buildings, like my union.

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Speaker 3: I'm part of my union, and aside from just like

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Speaker 3: being where I work, we don't necessarily have a building

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Speaker 3: per se. Yeah, So those things have always existed, especially

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Speaker 3: in the workmen circle in ethnic communities who were trying

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Speaker 3: to preserve a culture. And that's something that fit into

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Speaker 3: twentieth century capitalism. And so if we go farther than

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Speaker 3: the Revolution, I read a really great pamphlet recently from

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Speaker 3: the seventies, actually that was from the UK, and it

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Speaker 3: kind of discussed libraries. You know, if we make it

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Speaker 3: through the revolution a little bit as being operated as

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Speaker 3: under a syndicalist model where workers and patrons is what

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Speaker 3: we call them now, that wouldn't be quite that split.

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Speaker 3: Then would be able to govern and run these libraries.

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Speaker 3: And there was a really great diagram. So there's definitely

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Speaker 3: been ideas for a long time about what this could

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Speaker 3: look like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess in the collective's economy of revolutionary Barcelona,

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Speaker 2: library still existed at the nails existed, and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: it was a long a syndicalist model because everything was

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Speaker 2: so Yeah, I think that's like a good thing for

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Speaker 2: people to look towards. I want to stop and take

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Speaker 2: one more break, and then I want to talk about

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Speaker 2: what people can do to protect libraries. All right, we

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Speaker 2: are back so currently, Like I mean, this is like

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Speaker 2: a funding cliff for the library system, right, I suppose

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Speaker 2: it's hard to say, but like, how long would it

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Speaker 2: take before people stop seeing these services if DOGE was

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Speaker 2: to start doging tomorrow?

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Speaker 3: I honestly can't tell, you know, I think that people

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Speaker 3: it really doesn't. It's hard to say now, right because

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Speaker 3: we do have the funding there. It just will it

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Speaker 3: actually happen? Will the thing happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: That has already been allocated. I think we have a

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Speaker 3: little bit of time, but I would expect if that

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Speaker 3: congressional isn't expressed that, especially when summer reading rolls around,

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Speaker 3: will really start to see it, because that's something that

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Speaker 3: a lot of people depend on to keep their kids

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Speaker 3: occupied during the summer. Yeah, and especially out you know,

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Speaker 3: in red states and rural areas. It's going to be

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Speaker 3: very much like the I never thought the leopards were

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Speaker 3: going to eat my face.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, kind of situation, which is sad, like because

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Speaker 2: it's someone's kid who doesn't get to go to the

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Speaker 2: library very.

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Speaker 4: Often, right right, right.

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Speaker 3: That sucks, you know, because it's going to be a

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Speaker 3: lot of a lot of kids, especially without those resources.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think about like how like I wouldn't have survived

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Speaker 2: my undergraduate without libraries book only grad school books are

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Speaker 2: super expensive, especially academic books, and like I relied very

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Speaker 2: heavily on intolibrary loan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And this is you know, at the university level,

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Speaker 3: to be sure, where books are very expensive. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: at the public and school library level, you know, this

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Speaker 3: is exactly why this is happening, is because there is

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Speaker 3: this ongoing narrative from the last few decades where where people,

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Speaker 3: especially like queer kids, say that the library saves their lives. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: young people of color saying like this is the only

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Speaker 3: place I could see myself in culture by reading these books.

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Speaker 3: So of course, of course this is happening because that

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Speaker 3: you know, they want to take that away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a place where people can kind

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Speaker 2: of exist yeah without that. Yeah, So let's talk about, like,

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Speaker 2: how can people engage to protect their libraries. What can

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Speaker 2: they do?

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Speaker 6: What?

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Speaker 2: I like some action items they can take.

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Speaker 3: I unfortunately don't have great news. I don't think, you know,

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Speaker 3: because of the way this is working, and it is

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Speaker 3: so much about just like raw brute power that no

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Speaker 3: one at the federal government or even state governments for

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Speaker 3: the most part, seems to be able to counter. It's

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Speaker 3: just like not something they can conceive of, Yeah, because

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Speaker 3: they already are doing things that supposedly shouldn't be allowed. Right,

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Speaker 3: We've already had the congressional funding. This should have a

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Speaker 3: congressional you know, this is passed by Congress, and yet

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Speaker 3: an executive order and Elon Muskin undo it.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: If things were working, this wouldn't be happening, right, So

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Speaker 3: we are really kind of down down the line a

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Speaker 3: little bit in what we can do and how effective

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Speaker 3: it's going to be. That said, there are things we

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Speaker 3: can do. A lot of them are the things that

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Speaker 3: liberals usually do, which is like calling your senator over

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Speaker 3: and over and over again every day, and your representatives

397
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Speaker 3: and your state or state government too, to make sure

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Speaker 3: that your state government is paying attention to what they're

399
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Speaker 3: going to lose. There are certainly, you know, things one

400
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Speaker 3: can sign on to for major library organizations. The ALA

401
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Speaker 3: has been writing a lot, and less formal organizations than that.

402
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Speaker 3: I think one thing that we can always be doing,

403
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Speaker 3: not just in the situation, but if you want to

404
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Speaker 3: be supporting libraries, one of the best thing and easiest

405
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Speaker 3: things you can do is go get a library card

406
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Speaker 3: if you don't already have one, and use your damn library.

407
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Speaker 3: There's probably something there that you want and that actually

408
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Speaker 3: really does help. Because libraries, whether it's with something like

409
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Speaker 3: IMLS or whether it's grants from foundations and or local funders,

410
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Speaker 3: you know, their local government are better able to make

411
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Speaker 3: their argument for why they should be given money if

412
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Speaker 3: they have good statistics to say we had ten percent

413
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Speaker 3: more readers this year. You know the number of books

414
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Speaker 3: we loan this year is higher than it's ever been.

415
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Speaker 3: People are coming to our events and droves that kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, success breeds success. If they can show

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Speaker 3: that to potential funders, they're more likely to get money.

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Speaker 3: So don't about the read the book. Just check the

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Speaker 3: book out, keep it for we can give it back,

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Speaker 3: you know, on time. Make those numbers go up.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can even like, let's say you're not

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Speaker 2: inclined to go to the library for whatever reason and

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Speaker 2: you don't like going out, or worried about COVID or

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Speaker 2: something like, you can do most of this online, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: if you have Libby, you can certainly you can borrow books.

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Speaker 3: You can borrow ebooks and audiobooks from Libby. Some libraries

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Speaker 3: have streaming movies. A lot of libraries have still either

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Speaker 3: all online or hybrid events that you can watch rather

430
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Speaker 3: than having to go to the event at the library.

431
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Speaker 3: You know, the one thing about about some of those

432
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Speaker 3: streaming services and Libby that I will caution about is

433
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Speaker 3: that you're data is less secure. If that's something you're

434
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Speaker 3: concerned about, then it would be borrowing paper books. It's

435
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Speaker 3: good to be because most libraries, even in the kind

436
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 3: of tech dystopian future we live in, do a decent job,

437
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 3: or at least try to be good about your borrowing

438
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 3: data when you borrow hard copies. But because things like

439
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 3: Libby and the streaming services are third party integrations, those

440
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: collect some amount of use data. So it's absolutely great

441
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 3: to use those. But I would caution that if if

442
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: you are a person who has a very high front

443
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 3: model and you want to be careful about your data,

444
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 3: go for the paper.

445
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, it's kind nicer, nicer experience to read

446
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: a paper book as well. It is what about like

447
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: if people I know lots of people who are librarians

448
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: listen see email me like is their way that they

449
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: can organize? Who is the way the people are organizing,

450
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 2: either to prevent this or like as a way of

451
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 2: harm reduction, right, like, as a way of reducing the

452
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: damage to the state can do to people's access to Yeah.

453
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 3: So there are a few more radical organizations that I

454
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: think are worth paying attention to. My favorite is Library

455
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 3: Freedom Project. They're really wonderful and more willing to say

456
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: the thing without bullshit, Yeah, the thing that you know.

457
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 3: I would obviously urge every worker to do this, but

458
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: if you're if your workplace is not unionized, start working

459
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 3: on that. Yeah, that will always give you more power,

460
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: So you should you should start trying to organize your workplace.

461
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, hopefully hopey there's still time for people to

462
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: do that.

463
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, who knows where that's going to go, but you

464
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: can at least try.

465
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 2: It's still legal now, yeah, right when it starts, and like,

466
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 2: regardless of what happens, Like, we're stronger in this together

467
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: than we are a part. And the unions have done

468
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: a lot to prevent fascism in the past.

469
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 3: And similarly, there are depending upon what state you live in,

470
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: there might be a state library organization that is active

471
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 3: and that would be just a good way to make

472
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 3: connections with other libraries near you and their librarians. And

473
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 3: you know, maybe if you do lose some of your funding,

474
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 3: you can put your heads together and you know, use

475
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 3: each other's resources and have joint programming and things like that.

476
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: That makes sense. Are people like attempting so some of

477
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: the stuff i mls have is like online archives. Are

478
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: people attempting to somehow to download that in order to

479
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: preserve it in the event that it goes away?

480
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 8: I don't know.

481
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 4: That that's really is that not what's a threat?

482
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: That's not really what we Yeah, I think that there

483
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 3: are other kind of data rescue projects with the federal

484
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: government that have better data than that. IMLS doesn't get

485
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: that much data, So I wouldn't be too concerned with.

486
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: That, Okay, So it's more like along the workplace organizing side.

487
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely like trying to figure out to make

488
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 3: how to make your and the libraries around you keep

489
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 3: going and offering the things to your communities that they've

490
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: been offering.

491
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, it would be pretty tragic, Like there's a

492
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 2: library not so far from my house, Like I can

493
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 2: rent my bike do it. I get it all the time,

494
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: and it would be be really tragic to be without that. Yeah,

495
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 2: So yeah, please continue to organize your libraries. Is there

496
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: anything else that you'd like to plug or suggest people?

497
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 5: Like?

498
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: It's a pretty bleak time generally, and I think a

499
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: lot of us take refuge, especially in reading. Actually think

500
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: it's a way you can escape terrible things. Is there

501
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 2: anything else you'd like to kind of suggest for people

502
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: as we dive deeper into fascism every day at the moment.

503
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: I think in libraries and elsewhere where. It's just being

504
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: able to offer a counter narrative, like not buying into

505
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: the idea that the library is a money hole. You know,

506
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: it can only be valued monetarily. So when you hear that,

507
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: maybe start going to your library's board meetings and when

508
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 3: you hear those kinds of things said, get online for

509
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 3: the comments and offer a different narrative. And you can

510
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: do that all over your life in different in different ways.

511
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: When you hear that narrative that is monetary and neoliberal

512
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: and harmful, offer a different one. Yeah.

513
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: I think it's like, it's so sad to think that

514
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 2: we should have to quantify the value of everything monetarity,

515
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 2: but especially something like a library, like so many people

516
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: have had such positive engagements with them which have nothing

517
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: to do with the with the cash next. The's sort

518
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: of like generating revenue and that's what makes them valuable

519
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: and what makes them special sometimes. So yeah, hopefully people,

520
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: hopefully people can advocate for that. How would you find

521
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: your library board meeting if you wanted to look?

522
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: If you you're a library, if you have a public

523
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: library near you, they should have a website and the

524
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 3: website should have an events page that includes board meetings.

525
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 3: Hopefully other information about your library's board as well, and

526
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 3: if you can't find it, maybe call it the library

527
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 3: and ask. I'll probably just tell you they're really good

528
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: at information there.

529
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that is the thing that they do. All right, Well,

530
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us, Jamie. That was

531
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: that was great. It was really really helpful.

532
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

533
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 5: Hey and welcome. Take it happen here. Today we'll continue

534
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 5: our journey through Latin American anarchism where we last left

535
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 5: off with a look at the anarchist history of Uruguay.

536
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 5: We talked about Uruguay's general history, it's radical influences anarchism,

537
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 5: this period of popularity in the early twentieth century, it's

538
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: radical experiments and it's cultural influence. So today James and I,

539
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: because James is here, Hello, James.

540
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 4: Hi Andrew.

541
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 5: Today we're going to look at what Iuruguaian anarchists have

542
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 5: been up to from the fifties onward, paying special attentions

543
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 5: the activity of the Ferracion Anarchista Uruguaya and the idea

544
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 5: of especifismo. By the way, as James is indicated, I

545
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 5: am Andrew Andrew Saige. You can find me on YouTube

546
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 5: as Andrewism. But all that aside, let's get into it.

547
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 5: The Feracion Anarchista Irguaya or FAU, was founded in Montevideo, Uruguay,

548
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 5: in nineteen fifty six. According to Paul Sharki in the

549
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 5: Feracion and Aquista Iraguaia, the FAU had very strong work

550
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 5: in class roots, as many of the militans came from

551
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 5: labor heavy districts like Zero, which definitely shaped their outlook.

552
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 5: The FAU was also very much emphasized in direct action

553
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 5: over electoral strategies. It favored armed struggle as a necessity

554
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 5: in reaction to save repression and economic exploitation, and the

555
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 5: FAU had a very strong stance against Marxist Leninism. Although

556
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 5: some members sympathized with aspects of Marxism, many of them

557
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 5: resisted to bureaucratic and authoritarian tendencies that influenced that miliu.

558
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 5: Unlike in many other Latin American countries, as you may

559
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 5: have recalled us covering in the past, anarchism persisted in

560
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 5: mainstream relevance even after the rise of the Bolsheviks and

561
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 5: the influence globally, and of course the coincide and fall

562
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 5: of the anarchists in Spain. According to all of us

563
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 5: Zenkos sixty five years of revolution, the FAU came about

564
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: in a time when u requires prosperity coming out of

565
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 5: World War two had come to an end, as its

566
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 5: agricultural exports were no longer needed to feed the alli's

567
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 5: massive standing armies. This economic downturn triggered major social unrest,

568
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: which the anarchist presence was able to spring upon. One

569
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 5: such instance of unrest involved one hundred and fifty thousand

570
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 5: workers going on strike in Salidarity with their fellow workers

571
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 5: in a tire factory. During the strike and after, the

572
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 5: FAU involved students, unionists, intellectuals, community organizers, and even a

573
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 5: few exiles from the Spanish Civil War to build up

574
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 5: a more united labor movement. So rather than having unions

575
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 5: split along political ideological affiliations like moderates, socialists, anarchists, right

576
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 5: populists and so on, there'll be one big tent just

577
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 5: focused on labor. Now, I personally think a big tent

578
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 5: has its benefits and its drawbacks, as with any other strategy.

579
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 5: I think the benefit is obviously that it has the

580
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 5: ability to mobilize a large number of people. But I

581
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 5: think the difficulty in the drawback is that having so

582
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 5: many affiliations under that big tent can mean it there's

583
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 5: not really much of a shared goal left behind, Like, yeah,

584
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 5: the anarchists want anarchy, the right populists might just want

585
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 5: to secure some benefits and protections, and the socialists will

586
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 5: be interested in launching a party. Sure they all proclaim

587
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 5: to have some interest on the side of the workers

588
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 5: or how that manifests looks different from group to group.

589
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 5: But we'll see how that big tent approach turned out

590
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 5: for the FAU. So they formed the National Confederation of

591
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 5: Workers or CNT as that big tent in nineteen sixty four,

592
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 5: but even before that there was a split, not too

593
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 5: much of a surprise. After the Cuban Revolution, the FAU

594
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 5: is actually divided between those who were opposed to Castro

595
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 5: and those who critically supported the revolution. Those who were

596
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 5: opposed to Castro eventually broke away from the FAU in

597
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three as Castro entrenched himself in the Soviet Bloc,

598
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 5: while those who remained in the FAU were critical of

599
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 5: Castro and his government but still supported the fall of Batista.

600
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 5: Of course, with the Cuban Revolution, came that very noticeable

601
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 5: shift in American foreign policy. They saw that with all

602
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 5: that happening right in their backyard, they need to take

603
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 5: a very different approach if they wanted to win the

604
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 5: Cold War. Such a Zignco actually describes how in nineteen

605
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 5: sixty one JFK changed the approach of the now infamous

606
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 5: School of the Americas from preparing for Soviet invasion to

607
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 5: prepare in for anti communist counterinsurgency against homegrown revolutions. So

608
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 5: as a result, militaries across Latin America became more right

609
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 5: wing and seized power for themselves to protect civilians from

610
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 5: the danger of their rights. In nineteen sixty four, it

611
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 5: was Brazil, in nineteen sixty eight, it was Peru, in

612
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy three was Chile, and Uruguay fell, and in

613
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy six Argentina fell. So Zenko noted in jest,

614
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 5: over a decade, Uruguayan and anarchists would becomes surrounded by

615
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 5: right wing dictatorships which collaborated to round up and extillminate

616
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 5: left wing dissidents of all flavors. Not to mention, the

617
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 5: economic situation wasn't exactly getting better. According to Paul Sharky.

618
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 5: Between nineteen fifty five and nineteen fifty nine, the cost

619
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 5: of living doubled and wages did not keep pace. By

620
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty five, inflation was running one hundred percent ABU

621
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty seven at one hundred and forty percent madness.

622
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well just wait and see, Andrew, Oh yea, yeah,

623
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: we are living in some interesting times.

624
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you never know.

625
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 5: So the president that preceded the military dictator imposed a

626
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 5: wage freeze and devalue the currency. That was his bright idea,

627
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 5: his solution to the crisis. So people's lives were obviously

628
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 5: getting worse and the time had come for some decisive action.

629
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 5: So the CNT aided in strikes across sectors and even

630
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 5: tried to call for a general strike as the encle rights.

631
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 5: The FAU decided that they were going to take on

632
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 5: a strategy of urban guerrilla warfare, so they tapped into

633
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 5: a coalition of leftist groups to robin hood food from

634
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 5: the corporations to be able to the poor. Awesome, have

635
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 5: just hit it, Yeah, But sadly the coalition couldn't last

636
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 5: very long. Differences in strategy would lead to the FAU

637
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 5: doing its thing by building defense councils similar to those

638
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 5: organized in the Spanish Civil War.

639
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

640
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 5: Interesting, while the other groups copied a Sheikwavara style gorilla

641
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 5: army approach, forming the National Liberation Movement to Permeros or

642
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 5: the MLNT.

643
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 2: The existential debate among anarchists in arms is this that

644
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: you've just like highlighted, right, it's need we form authoritarian

645
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: structures similar to those using, for example, the Cuban Revolution,

646
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: the Russian Revolution, these kind of statist revolutions which characterize

647
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: the left in the twentieth century in some ways. Or

648
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: is it possible for us to go from our community

649
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: defense and the defense committees like the six person groups

650
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 2: that the CNT organized in Spain to a more egalitarian

651
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: large formation, like a like a truly revolutionary army. And

652
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: like the split that you're talking about is the split

653
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 2: that almost every movement had.

654
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 5: Yeah. Although the mlent T was necessarily anarchists.

655
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: Right, they were like following the Castro model, Is that right?

656
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 2: Like the Shagha Vara kind of guerrilla warfare.

657
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 5: Doctrine, pretty much the Gervara sort of model.

658
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 8: Yeah.

659
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 5: Although I'm glad that you bring up this point because

660
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 5: it's actually something that I was writing about earlier today

661
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 5: in preparation for a video.

662
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: Interesting.

663
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 5: I think there's a conflation that anarchists need to be

664
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 5: careful with between leadership in the sense of authority, as

665
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 5: in the right to command and control and that kind

666
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 5: of thing, versus leadership in the sense of guidance, advice, coordination, expertise.

667
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

668
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 5: I think that just as that you might have even

669
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 5: you might have an anarchist construction collective, right and they're

670
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 5: building a house, you might have something like foreman who

671
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 5: is coordinating all the actions and all the different builders

672
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 5: and all the different treatsment of engaging in to ensure

673
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 5: that the different parts of the house come together cohesively

674
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 5: and seamlessly, that nobody is like stepping on anybody's tools,

675
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 5: that everything is being done in a proper timement. That

676
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 5: is an instance where there will be coordination without necessarily

677
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 5: having authority. It's just really a division of labor to

678
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 5: ensure that the task that everybody is there to accomplish

679
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 5: can be accomplished. And the person who is given that

680
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 5: particular task within that division of labor is doing so

681
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 5: by taking all that responsibility. But just as they have

682
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 5: the responsibility, others will also have the responsibilities and that

683
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 5: does not elevate them above the other people in that association, right, yeah,

684
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 5: and so kind of in the same way that you

685
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 5: have that in a construction site. I think that that

686
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 5: is the kind of approach we need to take in

687
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 5: a military formation, where the person who is you know,

688
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 5: respected for their knowledge of military strategy or has the

689
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 5: information or the expertise to be able to handle the

690
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 5: planning of that approach. Because we're all here to win, right,

691
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 5: We're all here to defend our freedom and to defend

692
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 5: the freedom of the people we love. So there's no

693
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 5: sense in splitting off into a bunch of different groups

694
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 5: and failing out our task when we can come together

695
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 5: where necessary to engage in the coordination of our strategy

696
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 5: to improve the chances of our success. You know. And

697
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 5: of course there is a vulnerability in times of warfare

698
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 5: that we do have the knowledge because warfare historically is

699
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 5: one of the times that is the most ripe for

700
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 5: authoritarian and seizure and control. But because that vulnerability exists

701
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 5: in those times is when I think we have to

702
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 5: be extra vigilant of how that could potentially manifest. You know,

703
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 5: we don't sacrifice our course and defense of the course,

704
00:37:58,440 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying.

705
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: Definitely, because it's easy to do that. It's easy to

706
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: be persuaded that this situation is unique and different, and

707
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: therefore we need to accept some kind of compromise of

708
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: the very essence of what we're doing, the method that

709
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 2: like the people I have spoken to, both those within

710
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: formations today in Rajava and West in Java, but also

711
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: in the Emma and those for instance in the Iron Column,

712
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: which was a FI column in the spanishivil War. They're

713
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: probably the most famous for leaving the front line to

714
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: attack the cops because they felt they didn't have enough

715
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: weapons and that the cops had too many. And what

716
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: they did was that they created a concept of the

717
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: minimum necessary discipline, discipline being something that one has for oneself,

718
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: not the hunting that comes from above. And they had

719
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: leaders who would lead in times of combat right when

720
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 2: we needed to make swift and decisive action. There wasn't

721
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: time to obtain consensus. They used consensus to arrive at

722
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: those leaders. Those leaders were able in times of urgency

723
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: to make urgent decisions, but that didn't confer to power

724
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: or status outside of that moment.

725
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's just like in an emergency scenario, you know,

726
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 5: somebody is, you know, leading a surgery, for example, or

727
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 5: leading a rescue operation. That doesn't mean that they're elevated

728
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 5: above everybody else. That just means that they have the

729
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 5: knowledge and the skills to accomplish that particular task, and

730
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 5: the others of their own free will respect that knowledge

731
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 5: enough to go out with what the person is recommending exactly.

732
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that, yeah, that doesn't mean that that person

733
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: is inherently capable of bossing you around, exactly.

734
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 5: And I like the mention of discipline in particular because

735
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 5: that really is a distinction, because he will talk about, oh,

736
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 5: you need to have military discipline, how you school stab

737
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 5: military discipline without blind obedience to authority, I'm sure we're

738
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 5: not going to have we're ever going to have discipline

739
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 5: to the extent that soldiers are dehumanized and treated like

740
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 5: canon fodder as you would find in a traditional authoritaria

741
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 5: and military. But the discipline is derived from solidarity, is

742
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 5: derived from the responsibility people have for each other, the

743
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 5: capable have for each other within their formulation, and the

744
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 5: responsible do they have for their own actions as being

745
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 5: part of that formation, and for how their actions will

746
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 5: affect those around them.

747
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I think that's something like you say

748
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: it again and again when you read the column, the

749
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: Derouty column newspaper, right, they talk about discipline and how

750
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: we have to have a discipline comes from our commitment

751
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: to our cause and to each other, not from any

752
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: fear of repercussions or like quote unquote disciplinary action, but

753
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: from like the fact that we we don't want to

754
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 2: let our comrades down, or do we want to let

755
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: our course down, and like when people do do that. Right,

756
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: there are It doesn't mean there aren't disciplinary actions, but

757
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: it means that those are like like you said before,

758
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: you don't break away from the core of what you're doing.

759
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 2: So they agree by consensus to include with the person

760
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: who has done the thing that is considered to be wrong,

761
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,959
Speaker 2: what a suitable punishment would be or a suitable set

762
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: of repercussions would be. So then it reinforces the idea

763
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: of like consensus and like discipline coming from oneself rather

764
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: than from fear of punishment.

765
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there is, of course the potential for

766
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 5: processes to potentially become How do I want to put this?

767
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 5: What I will say is I think it's necessary. But

768
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 5: even in engaging with those who have you broken trust

769
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 5: or who have seemingly split from the association or have

770
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 5: jeopardized the safety and security of the association, that you

771
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 5: find we us to deal with those situations on a

772
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 5: case by keyse basis. You know that you're responsive to

773
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 5: the particular circumstances that cause that action that particular outcome,

774
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 5: rather than as you would find in modernil ries where

775
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 5: you have like a very clear this action has this consequence,

776
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 5: this action has this concert this action like a lot

777
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 5: more flexibility is required because we understand that we don't

778
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 5: have this matrix of crime that authorities do. You know,

779
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 5: we're dealing with calm. They deal with crime, right, and

780
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 5: so in dealing with harm, we have to approach each

781
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 5: of those situations in the context of their situations rather

782
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 5: than in some sort of cold like distant calculation, you know.

783
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 5: And I think in approaching it in that way, people

784
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 5: are more willing I think, to fess up or to

785
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 5: take accountability for their harm because they know that there's

786
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 5: that relationship there that you're going to try to work

787
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 5: through it. That well, there may be many potential consequences

788
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 5: to their actions there's an openness to dialogue there rather

789
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 5: than a rigidity of this is what you did, so

790
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 5: this is the outcome automatically.

791
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is the latter is like a

792
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: system that looks not at people but quote unquote crimes, right,

793
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: and like this is the opposite of a restorative justice system,

794
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: which looks at people in the situation they are in

795
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 2: and not just the worst thing that they happen to

796
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: have done.

797
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 3: It.

798
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: We should return to South America and really once again diverted.

799
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, although I feel like these digressions always get

800
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 5: to something essential and brings out something extra to what

801
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 5: I would have, you know, prepared in advance. So we

802
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 5: had this split, right, we had the FAU and then

803
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 5: you had the m L and T. And they did

804
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 5: collaborate where there was a common cause, but it wasn't

805
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 5: a permanent collaboration, you know. And while this was taking

806
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 5: place in the urban guerrilla warfare sphere, you had different

807
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 5: things taking place in the labor movement. The FAU was

808
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 5: dealing with the consequences of big tent to organize in

809
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 5: as they found that the Uruguayan Communist Party or PCU

810
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 5: had pretty successfully claimed significant influence in the cnt SO.

811
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 5: In response, according to Suzenko, the FAU created a rank

812
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 5: and file alliance called the Combative Tendency, which pushed for

813
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 5: more militancy and less bureaucracy in the union movement. Through

814
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 5: that alliance, the FAU was able to accomplish a lot

815
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 5: more outreach and action, but in return, the President of

816
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 5: Uruguay introduced emergency laws executed by the military to counter

817
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 5: the unrest. The revolutionary Left continued to fight against military's

818
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 5: involvement in civilian life and also formed a daily people

819
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 5: called Ipoca. When the government was like, stop, don't do that,

820
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 5: that's illegal. And when the government says stopped on that,

821
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 5: that's illegal, that means they put boots on the ground,

822
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 5: and you know, raided their offices, and so the people

823
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 5: fell apart and the groups involved went under around and

824
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 5: like I said, the military raided their bases. But then

825
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 5: when the FAU was like, let's get the band back together, unfortunately,

826
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 5: the other groups were too scared to resurface, understandably, and

827
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 5: so because of that fear, the PCU kind of had

828
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 5: a fall from Greece. You know, for a while they

829
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 5: were big boys on campus and the cnt but after

830
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 5: the FAU kind of came to the forefront again in

831
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 5: called its bravery and stuff. They kind of end up

832
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 5: falling back. And you see, the PCU had chosen to

833
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 5: appease the military because they believed that a leftist faction

834
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 5: within the rounds the army might support their bid for power,

835
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 5: kind of like what happened in the Russian Revolution. And so,

836
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 5: you know, they really thought they were cooking something. But

837
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 5: as it saying goes, the store was not even on.

838
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: I haven't heard that one in this game.

839
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, the military saw them as pretty much insignificant, so

840
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 5: much so that while other leftist groups were facing severe oppression,

841
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 5: the PCU was actually pretty much left alone. And so

842
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 5: when the union rank and files saw that and tilling

843
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 5: their backs on the PCU, they ended up turning their

844
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 5: focus toward the combative tendency because at least they were

845
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 5: doing radical and serious stuff. And so the unions were

846
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 5: under attack from all sides, the police, the military, and

847
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 5: even neo fascist gangs, and the FAU led combatitive tendancy

848
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 5: was focused on defending these workers' movements from those threats.

849
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 5: According to the Zenko, the FAU held a secret congress

850
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 5: and formed their own armed wing the OPR thirty three,

851
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 5: which unlike other gorilla groups in the region, wasn't a

852
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 5: top down organization. Instead, individual cells had the freedom to

853
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 5: decide how they carry out missions and which actions it

854
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 5: took part in the affair. You still set the overall strategy,

855
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 5: but it wasn't about becoming some kind of vanguard. And

856
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 5: some of the actions, by the way, according to Sharki,

857
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 5: included bank robberies and factory owner kidnappings.

858
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: It's like old school Spanish anarchism.

859
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, well there were some old school Spanish anarchists within

860
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 5: their ranks. Yeah, so he really can't be surprised.

861
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I drew. There's this wonderful line in able

862
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: Pass's book about de Ruti that de Ruti was very

863
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: fond of children, so he risked his life robbing banks

864
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: to fund their education.

865
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 5: Oh that's beautiful.

866
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 4: It's such a wonderful Like, yeah, it's beautiful.

867
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know, I just enjoy it very much

868
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: the whole Like you never know what direction that sentence

869
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 2: is going to go in.

870
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 5: That is a quintessential example of that, Yeah, I think. Yeah,

871
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 5: so you know, you do what you have to do

872
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 5: pretty much.

873
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And like I think it's really like he

874
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: wasn't maximalist for the sake of maximalism. He was maximalist

875
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: for the sake of like educating children. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.

876
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 2: He didn't see the violence as and ended.

877
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 5: Itself exactly exactly. It had a cause and reasoning behind it. Yeah,

878
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 5: And the FAU was the same way. Or their reasoning

879
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 5: was just that if the capitalist class was going to

880
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 5: use force to protect their interests, then the workers should

881
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 5: be able to use force to defend theirs.

882
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fannel and stuff, And so.

883
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 5: They did what they had to do. Meanwhile, the PCU

884
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 5: was stuck to their policy of appeasement, which actually had

885
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 5: a detrimental effect in the broader movement. As a military

886
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 5: kept growing in strength, and so the very anti communist

887
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 5: military's involvement in breaking up all the work activities emboldened

888
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 5: their role in politics. And then, once they defeated the

889
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 5: m l n T, with the FAU struggling to resist

890
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 5: isolated by the PCU's in action, the military to on

891
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 5: the opportunity to coop the government, leading to the rise

892
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 5: of Juan Maria Porteraberi, the first president of the Civic

893
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 5: military dictatorship in ninety seventy three. In the aftermath, the

894
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 5: FAU made the tough call to move the operations to Argentina,

895
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 5: which hadn't yet fallen to military distatorship. From there, they

896
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 5: worked within the CNT to organize a massive fifteen day

897
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 5: general strike. It shut the country down for a time,

898
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 5: but it wasn't enough, and the efforts to keep up

899
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 5: the fight were constantly undermined by the PCU, which still

900
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 5: insisted on negotiating instead of taking real action. Meanwhile, the

901
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 5: people were suffering. According to Sharky, between nineteen seventy one

902
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 5: and nineteen seventy six there was a thirty five percent

903
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 5: fall in real wages, and by nineteen seventy nine inflation

904
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 5: was running at eighty percent, with wages limping behind at

905
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 5: forty five percent. So until nineteen seventy six, the FAU

906
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 5: continued to work between Argentina and Uruguay, but after Argentina's

907
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 5: coup that was it. The coach Enko directly. During the

908
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 5: US's operation, Condo dictatorships across Latin America continued coordinated to kidnap, torture,

909
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 5: and murder leftists across the continent. Between sixty eight thousand

910
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 5: and eighty thousand leftists were killed and more than four

911
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 5: hundred thousand were placed in political prisons end courde Jesus,

912
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 5: And I think we need to sit with those numbers,

913
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 5: because it's very easy to hear numbers like that and

914
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 5: just think, you know, that's just a statistic. Pretty much

915
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 5: we hear big numbers of mine, kind of goes statistic. Yeah,

916
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 5: but to like think about the impact that would have

917
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 5: for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people

918
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 5: to be just taken out, whether killed or imprisoned, leaving

919
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 5: like a keeping a whole of knowledge, of experience, of education,

920
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 5: of radicalism. Yeah, a country may take decades to recover

921
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 5: from something like that. It's a cultural death in a sense.

922
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 5: You know, this is a political movement, but it's it's

923
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 5: kind of similar to how during Cluanissm, elders would be

924
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 5: wiped out and with them all of their knowledge, all

925
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 5: of their oral histories, all their languages just wiped out

926
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 5: in an instant.

927
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

928
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 5: This is different, of course as a political ideology as

929
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 5: opposed to an entire culture and ethnicity, but it's still

930
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 5: just a massive loss of all that history, all that experience,

931
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 5: all that radicalism and information just gone.

932
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's hard for a movement to recover from that.

933
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like a genocide or its colonial kind

934
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: of you could call it like a dec well, it's

935
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: like a decapitation of the movement, I suppose.

936
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 5: Well, I would say it's more than a decapitation, because

937
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 5: it's not just like notable figures that were taken out,

938
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 5: or particularly influential thought leaders or anything. It's almost everybody. Yeah,

939
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 5: anybody who had that fight in them, or had that

940
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 5: radical knowledge or consciousness.

941
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyone with any lived experience, all the things they'd learned,

942
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 2: all the mistakes they'd made, learned from like a garden

943
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: that the movement has to begin almost from like a

944
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: blank slate.

945
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, the history is basically raised in a sense, all

946
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 5: this left is really what they might have written down, yeah,

947
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 5: which is obviously only a small portion of what they

948
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 5: might have had to share with the rest of the world.

949
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially in a movement that's been criminalized and pursued

950
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: by the state. Right, Like what they write down is

951
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 2: what they risk the state discovering, so that they're only

952
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: going to risk write sen things down.

953
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, and then you know, when you look at this,

954
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 5: this this didn't just happen, you require, that's happened all

955
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 5: over the world. In some cases, this massive wipeout of

956
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 5: the anarchists movement took place even earlier, you know, in

957
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 5: the nineteen hundreds, nineteen tens, nineteen twenties. But in all

958
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 5: these cases, that loss is something that we are still

959
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 5: in a sense recovering from. We kind of had to

960
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 5: solly build back, but we still haven't ever reached in

961
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 5: many places the heights that anarchism's at at certain points

962
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 5: in its history. It's in parts of the world.

963
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look at even like Spain still has

964
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 2: a very strong anarchosyndicalist movement, right, but like the best

965
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: of the anarchists died in Aragon, in Madrid and in

966
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: concentration camps afterwards, or fighting in the Second World War,

967
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 2: and like, it took decades for that movement to recover,

968
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: and it's still not as strong as it was. That

969
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 2: this was one of the high points.

970
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 5: Especially when the legacy is so much erased. You know,

971
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 5: when you look at how histories are taught everywhere in

972
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 5: the world, you're barely going to get a mention of

973
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 5: anarchism despite the massive role that plead in sheep in

974
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 5: the twentieth century, nineteenth and twentieth centuries.

975
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been one of my constant things as

976
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 2: a historian, is that like, when people write histories today,

977
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: they write them from the perspective of the inevitability of

978
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 2: the state. And like, I'm not alone in making this analysis.

979
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: David Graeber does it. Scott did it too. The idea

980
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 2: is that people who exist outside of the state are behind,

981
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 2: and that they have failed or chosen not to advance

982
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 2: to the more advanced human existence that is a state.

983
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 2: And Jim Scott does this in the art of not

984
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 2: being governed, right, Like, if we look instead as people

985
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 2: who have chosen to refuse the state, then we understand

986
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 2: anarchism as a choice that people would make knowing the

987
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: options available to them, rather than a step backwards of

988
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 2: failure to advance to the state. And we can look

989
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: at a whole of history from that perspective and see

990
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 2: it very differently. But most historians don't exactly.

991
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 5: I'm sure you've in commented this where people just kind

992
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 5: of assume, all, well, the anarchists lost, so that means

993
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 5: the destined to lose. Yeah, they lost that particular fight

994
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 5: that doesn't mean the war necessarily lost. And additionally, states

995
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 5: have lost too.

996
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, states continue to lose.

997
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 5: States, state projects have lost, continue to lose, you know,

998
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 5: the capitalist project, capitalist businesses, they lose, they fail. That

999
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 5: doesn't mean that the project is destined to lose. The

1000
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 5: destined to feel just means that particular iteration or that

1001
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 5: particular attempt was not able to succeed in all its ambitions.

1002
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, as historians, we shouldn't be making that judgment, right,

1003
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: We should be attempting to learn from and document the

1004
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: past rather than to sort of categorize it into like

1005
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 2: failed and successful.

1006
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, that too, because the standards, the standards of failure

1007
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 5: and success are often dictated by the standpoint of the

1008
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 5: status school.

1009
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: Yes, very much so.

1010
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, It's kind of like how the Heitian Revolution is

1011
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 5: spoken of as the only succes sucessful slave revolts, or

1012
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 5: one of the only successful slave revolts. Understand for success

1013
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 5: in that case is that they were able to establish

1014
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 5: an independent state, whereas other slave revolts in other parts

1015
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 5: of the world, including within the Caribbean, would have taken

1016
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 5: different paths. The Maroons, for example, their former revolts was

1017
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 5: a withdrawal from the system that surrounded them, creating a

1018
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 5: pocket of resistance, isolating themselves. Same thing in Brazil we

1019
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 5: had Kilombo's these set of ones that extracted themselves from

1020
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 5: the surround and oppressive structure and try to survive to

1021
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 5: the extent that they could not. All of them lasted.

1022
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 5: But nothing lasts forever, you know, Countries rise and fall.

1023
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 5: And so I think if we limit ourselves to just

1024
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 5: the example of Haiti, particularly in the context of success

1025
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 5: in a slave revolution, I think we miss out on

1026
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 5: a lot of those other examples and opportunities for inspiration guidance.

1027
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. I think like it supplies

1028
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: to lots of places. I think about it, Like, you know,

1029
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 2: I'm fortunate to have this like background in history, but

1030
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: also to be with people in their moments of revolution

1031
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 2: and to spend time with revolutionaries in the MR. And like,

1032
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 2: one of the analysies that you always see is that, like,

1033
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 2: this creation of liberated spaces is a not enough or

1034
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 2: be like there are also places within the non government though,

1035
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: and where there is still very strong control from a

1036
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: pseudo state, right, Like, but I think that overlooks the

1037
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 2: fact that, yeah, there are not like like libertarian states,

1038
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 2: but people are living their lives without gods and masters,

1039
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 2: that they are like experiencing freedom in every moment, and

1040
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: they are liberated in their own lives as they continue

1041
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: to struggle to liberate territory in other people. That might

1042
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: be what success looks like, like that they are able

1043
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: to be self realized.

1044
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, just the psychological experience in itself, it cand of

1045
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 5: be under understated or underrated, even if it's on that

1046
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 5: small scale of the individual, that's still valuable.

1047
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like if we if we acknowledge that, it's

1048
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: much harder to go back, Like those people can't go

1049
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 2: back because they've existed in liberation, right, Like that that

1050
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 2: they've lived in a free way. Yeah, and like they

1051
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: will always know that that freedom is possible, that they

1052
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: can live without authority, live with without state power, that

1053
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 2: that like liberation is a thing that can exist not

1054
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 2: just in our minds but in physical space.

1055
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 5: And like exactly, they.

1056
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 2: Will always know that, like that's that's available, And if

1057
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: we can tell those stories, so will other people.

1058
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly, because that listening, as we speak about so often,

1059
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 5: it's the need in the process of social revolution to

1060
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 5: help people's powers drives and consciousness. You do that by

1061
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 5: giving people both of course theoretical education and you know,

1062
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 5: share knowledge in that sense, but also through experience because

1063
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 5: and I've used us phrase before, you can't put the

1064
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 5: gene back in the bottle. You can't go from experience

1065
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 5: in freedom to a situation of unfreedom and then struggles

1066
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 5: rulers and think, oh that's all they could have a

1067
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 5: be After you've experienced to the status quo, you're not

1068
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 5: going to go back to thinking the status quo is

1069
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 5: all there is and all that could ever exist.

1070
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. We have to remember that when we're

1071
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 2: looking at these things, Like it's easy to look from

1072
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: where something ended and project that back, but we have

1073
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: to understand how it felt when people were doing it too.

1074
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 5: Exactly. So what kind of we kind of left on

1075
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 5: an on a somber chapter in the Uruguay's anarchist history,

1076
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 5: because unfortunately it was only after the fall of Uraguai's

1077
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 5: stutatorship in nineteen eighty five the anarchist militants were able

1078
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 5: to return to Uruguay and re estableublished the FAU in

1079
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 5: a fractured political and social landscape with greatly reduced numbers.

1080
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 5: Some of the former anarchists involved in the FAU created

1081
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 5: the People's Victory Party or PvP in exile, which had

1082
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 5: attempted to reorganize resistance efforts but also fell into some

1083
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 5: Leninist tendencies. But the main line after you continue to

1084
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 5: focus on grassroots organizing, workers struggles and political education. It

1085
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 5: continues to be engaged in Latin arcananarchist networks, particularly with

1086
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 5: Brazilian and Argentine groups like the Ferrascau Anarchista Culture, the

1087
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 5: Frau Araquista KABOCLA, the Ferrachau Anarchista do Rio de Janeiro,

1088
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 5: and the Argentine organization ALCA. Despite its past radicalism, the

1089
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 5: FAU has shifted towards a broader approach integrated mass movements

1090
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 5: while retaining its equipment to anti authoritarian socialism. Since then

1091
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 5: and up to today, they approach has aligned with the

1092
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 5: practice of especifismo, which it developed to rebuild their strength

1093
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 5: in Irauguaian and political movements. That approach has since been

1094
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 5: influential across Latin America and beyond, including North America, Europe, Asia, Africa,

1095
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 5: and Oceania. I've actually spoken about Especifismo on this podcast

1096
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 5: before and on my channel. But to give a quick summary,

1097
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 5: Especifismo is an organizational approach guided by three key concepts.

1098
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 5: The first is the need for specifically anarchist organization built

1099
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 5: around a unity of ideas and practice. The second is

1100
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 5: the use of the specifically anarchist organization to theorize and

1101
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 5: develop strategic political and organize and work. And the food

1102
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 5: is active involvement in and shaping of autonomous and popular

1103
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 5: social movement, which is described as the process of social

1104
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 5: in social as. Pacifists reject the left unity idea of

1105
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 5: a synthesis organization of revolutionaries or even multiple currents of

1106
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 5: anarchists loosely united, because they feel it boils down to

1107
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 5: lowest common denominator politics. The feel that when this unity

1108
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 5: is preferred at any cost, it leaves little room for

1109
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 5: united action or developed political discussion. It can be described

1110
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 5: in a sense as an affinity group with the shared

1111
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 5: interest in the advancement of a very specific politic. But

1112
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 5: they aren't just internally focused, you know. Specifismo is focused

1113
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 5: and build in popular power as a means of revolutionary transformation,

1114
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 5: rejecting both electoral and vang Goddess Marxist approaches. So the

1115
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 5: especifies more distinguishes between specifically anarchist political organizations or affinity

1116
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 5: groups and broader mass movements, and they advocate for anarchists

1117
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 5: creating the former and inserting themselves in the latter, building

1118
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 5: up anarchist presence and the presence of anarchist ideas in unions,

1119
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 5: in student groups, and in community struggles. So, if you

1120
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 5: want a more in depth exploration of especifismo, I suggests

1121
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 5: reading the discussion between Philippe Korea and Juan Carlos Maco

1122
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 5: so call the Strategy of a Specifismo on the Anarchist Library,

1123
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 5: and they talk about how the fragmentation of the working

1124
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 5: class under neoliberalism has created some very distinct challenges that

1125
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 5: require fresh organizational strategies and less dogmats of critgity to

1126
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 5: simplistic class analysis. But they also speak for the need

1127
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 5: to coordinate and discipline and strategically engage anarchist groups within

1128
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 5: social movements, routaining the independence but engaging in their struggle.

1129
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 5: And they also end up in that interview discussed in

1130
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 5: the FAUS long Term Strategy as a process of resistance,

1131
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 5: rupture and reconstruction resistance, meaning that the strengthening crassroots organizations

1132
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 5: direct action and ideological development, rupture meaning that they're breaking

1133
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 5: away from catalyst institutions through revolutionary action and reconstruction meanings

1134
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 5: they establish a new social relations based on self management

1135
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 5: and mutual aid. It's kind of similar to the way

1136
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 5: that I break down social revolution conceptually as an approach

1137
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 5: that incorporates both opposition and the proposal of alternatives. So

1138
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 5: I have been thinking about specifies more lately. I've made

1139
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 5: that video many years ago, and my anarchist understanding has

1140
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 5: shifted a lot, especially recently, in going back and looking

1141
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 5: at how I would have analyzed things previously, I think

1142
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 5: there's some different directions that I might take certain things in.

1143
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 5: I think, for example, the idea of affinity groups engaging

1144
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 5: in social intution is extremely valuable in shifting the conversation

1145
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,439
Speaker 5: within you know, these mass movements. But I also think

1146
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 5: that there's a risk in the ways in which a SPECIFIESMO,

1147
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 5: if not properly understood or conceptualized, could end up opening

1148
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 5: ground for co optation towards some rather unanarchist outcomes. You

1149
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 5: know what I mean by that is, I think it's

1150
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 5: important one discussing a specifies more to be very careful

1151
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 5: against the interpretation of it as some kind of vangguard

1152
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 5: as strategy or way to dictate a vision of anarchy.

1153
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 5: I think that even if somebody has taken the pacifist

1154
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 5: approach in creating an efficiency group organized around a very

1155
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 5: specific form of anarchism, that group should still be in

1156
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 5: conversation with different tendencies and engaging in an ongoing process

1157
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 5: of critique and convergence of ideas. I believe this is

1158
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 5: the sort of motivation between Malichesta's idea of synthesis and

1159
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 5: the Synthesis Federation in anarchist history. I've still learn a

1160
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 5: bit about that, but anyway, I'd love to hear about

1161
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 5: what they are for you, and as anarchists you require

1162
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,439
Speaker 5: up to here. Now you know they can feel free

1163
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 5: to reach out to me. I have a website now,

1164
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 5: Andrew Sage dot org, and I wish them or power

1165
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 5: to all the people. That's it for me today. You

1166
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,919
Speaker 5: can find me on YouTube and Patreon and this has

1167
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 5: been it can happen here peace.

1168
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 8: Welcome to kidnapp and hear a podcast where I last

1169
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 8: left rfk JR on the proclamation that if he was

1170
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 8: able to take off as millions will die, and all

1171
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 8: evidence suggests that I am going to be right about this.

1172
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 8: I am your host Mia Wong with me is Gare Lou.

1173
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 6: He's making the meme come true. He's making the millions

1174
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:41,479
Speaker 6: millions must die.

1175
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 8: We're really, really, really, truly only the white Man could

1176
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 8: make real unlimited gedocide in the first world. It's great,

1177
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 8: it's great stuff. So this is going to be a

1178
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 8: recap episode of not even all like some of the

1179
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 8: stuff AREFK Jr. Has done since he's gotten confirmed as

1180
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 8: the fucking United States is Secretary of Health and Human Services,

1181
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 8: an organization which can includes so many things, but like

1182
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 8: for example, the NIH, the cdc DA, I believe, yeah,

1183
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 8: many many things. So Okay, there are lots and lots

1184
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 8: and lots of different rounds of budget cuts that are

1185
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 8: happening and grant cuts from a whole bunch of different

1186
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 8: departments and agencies. We're going to start with National Institutes

1187
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 8: of Health cutting a whole bunch of studies for vaccines

1188
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 8: for new diseases. So RFKA Junior's thing was, well, we're

1189
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 8: not going to fund any COVID research because COVID is over.

1190
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 8: So no more research into COVID vaccine treatments. We're not

1191
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 8: going to fund that now. Obviously COVID is like not

1192
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 8: over trivially. Obviously you catch it and it makes you

1193
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 8: sick and sometimes you and sometimes you get debilitating, long

1194
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 8: term negative health outcomes. But this is the law to

1195
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 8: get they're using to just be like no, fuck it,

1196
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 8: fuck it, We'll cut all of the funding that we

1197
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 8: can find that does the stuff. Now the problem again.

1198
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 8: And so these these cuts look a lot like the

1199
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 8: very beginning of the Trump administration where they were just

1200
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 8: going through and like you'd get a giant list of

1201
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 8: grants that got cut in the sense that like they're

1202
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 8: like control effing programs, right, and they're like searching for

1203
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 8: keywords and then just killing all the block grants that

1204
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:33,560
Speaker 8: do that. We'll get more into the end of the

1205
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 8: episode with like a different set of cuts. But one

1206
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 8: of the one of the big issues with this is

1207
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 8: that it's it's killing coronavirus research in general, like all

1208
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 8: of it is getting like massive cuts, and so this

1209
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 8: includes I think it was cnbcors You're putting on this

1210
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 8: killing a bunch of fairly like late stage research on

1211
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 8: things like you know, like like actually having vaccines that

1212
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 8: could work across like the broadcast category of coronaviruses, because

1213
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 8: like obviously there there are a whole bunch of different

1214
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,679
Speaker 8: kinds of coronaviruses, and there are certain sort of vaccine

1215
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 8: techniques that can work to suppress like the families of them,

1216
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 8: and fucking I don't know, maybe maybe maybe the europe

1217
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 8: and the Chinese will figure out how to do that,

1218
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 8: because the surest fuck isn't gonna be US after recud

1219
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 8: all this fucking funding. It's great. So all right, we're

1220
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 8: starting sort of I guess on the vaccine beat here

1221
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 8: because there's there's so many different kinds of bullshit. One

1222
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 8: of the other really big things that happened is doctor

1223
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,879
Speaker 8: Mark Peters, who was the guy who like did Operation

1224
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 8: Warp Speed, which was Trump's like big push to get

1225
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 8: a COVID vaccine now, and this is something I think

1226
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 8: is worth highlighting it again. This guy like worked under

1227
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 8: Trump right a lot, and some of these programs where

1228
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 8: we're talking about later were Trump programs, but Trump won.

1229
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 8: I mean, like Trump did do some anti vax shit

1230
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 8: and say some anti vac shit, but he wasn't like

1231
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 8: a hardline anti vaxxer, definitely not now.

1232
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, at many points he tried to take credit himself

1233
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 6: for the fast response of the CODE vaccine, which, hey,

1234
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 6: as long as we get the vaccine, do whatever you want, buddy.

1235
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 6: And the amount that that's been like memory hold and

1236
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 6: like they're trying to like just alter alter history regarding

1237
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 6: the COVID vaccine is a little, a little head scratching.

1238
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 6: It gives me that just slow growing headache that I'm

1239
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 6: experiencing every day, nearly all the time, just not due

1240
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 6: to COVID, because I've actually, to my knowledge, never gotten it,

1241
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 6: but it is a headache of political origin.

1242
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think one of the one of the

1243
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 8: interesting elements of this is something the thing I've talked

1244
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 8: about more like in the wake of like the immediate

1245
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 8: wake of twenty twenty, like twenty twelve, twenty two, is

1246
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 8: there used to be a big split in the Republican

1247
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,919
Speaker 8: Party between like the lab leakers and the anti vaxxers,

1248
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 8: because the thing about being a lab leak person is that,

1249
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 8: like you can't be a chin release a bioweapon person

1250
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 8: who also thinks that the vaccine is evil or at

1251
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 8: least you shouldn't be able to that those are like mutually.

1252
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 8: It took years. Legitimately, this is enough cognitive dissidence that

1253
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 8: even like the Alex Jones types, it took years for

1254
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,879
Speaker 8: them to sort of like develop a level of cognitive

1255
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 8: dissonance that allowed them to do this. They did do

1256
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 8: it eventually. And what we're seeing right now right is

1257
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 8: like Trumps a way of sort of shring up his

1258
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 8: anti vaccine flank has just like handed control over all

1259
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 8: public health policy to these just like hideous anti vaccine

1260
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 8: like cranks. And so Peter Marx, who was like one

1261
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 8: of the big guys from Trump won and you know

1262
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 8: who stayed on through Biden, who was like, yeah, okay,

1263
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 8: I'm gonna fucking get this vaccine to work. He has

1264
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 8: been forced to resign. And Marx also was the guy

1265
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 8: who was in charge of vaccine safety in the US, right,

1266
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 8: and he's forced out. And he said in a statement

1267
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:54,879
Speaker 8: for CNN, I mean, you can read the whole thing somewhere,

1268
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 8: but quote, it has become clear that truth and transparency

1269
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 8: are not desired by the Secretary this is OURFKA junior,

1270
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 8: but rather he wishes subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies.

1271
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 8: So that's good. That's the guy who used to be

1272
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 8: in charge of our country's vaccine safety going like, yeah,

1273
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 8: this guy wanted me to just fucking lie about vaccines constantly.

1274
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 4: So that's great. That's fun.

1275
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:21,759
Speaker 8: So before we get into the people who he's also

1276
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 8: he's bringing in to do his like unbelievably fake, hack,

1277
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 8: bullshit vaccine study stuff, we should talk a bit about

1278
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 8: the measles outbreak in Texas.

1279
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 2: Now.

1280
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 8: The reason that this isn't getting more coverage is that

1281
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:36,560
Speaker 8: this is going to get a really significant amount of

1282
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 8: coverage on this show in the near future when when

1283
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 8: those episodes are done, this is going to get significant coverage.

1284
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 8: For now, what I think is sort of important about

1285
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 8: this is that so there's been an outbreak of measles, which,

1286
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 8: like there should not be outbreaks and measles. We have

1287
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 8: defeated measles. We have the vaccine that you can take it.

1288
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 8: It's part of the MMR vaccine. You take it and

1289
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 8: then you don't get measles. But there are massive, you know,

1290
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 8: like communities who are fucking not vaccinating and as like,

1291
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 8: in large part because of the fucking anti vaccine shit

1292
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 8: that's being spread by people like RFK Junior, and faced

1293
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 8: with this, RFK Junior has done a bunch of unbelievably

1294
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 8: mealy mouthed bullshit about his personal choice to do vaccines

1295
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 8: blah blah blah blah blah, and then also did a

1296
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 8: whole thing about how he was going to have the

1297
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 8: government sends vitamin A to like combat measles, which is

1298
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 8: just nonsense, right, Like, so this, this is obviously just

1299
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 8: a complete fucking fiasco. We're going to cover this more

1300
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 8: as it goes on. Yeah, so stay tuned for more

1301
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 8: measles horrors. Yeah. The other thing we're not going to

1302
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 8: cover because it's going to be covered by these products

1303
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 8: and services are these advertisements.

1304
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 6: I would love to talk more about them. Well, we're

1305
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 6: still trying to get that hymns and eventually that them

1306
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 6: is a sponsorship.

1307
01:13:54,200 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 8: But we're getting closer. We're getting closer, getting closer. We

1308
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 8: are back now. What we are not coming closer to

1309
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 8: is finding a connection between vaccines and autism, because there

1310
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 8: isn't one. It's all fake. However, come up, people who

1311
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 8: don't believe this include RFKI Junior. So our kid Junior

1312
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 8: has been doing something. Okay, it's genuinely a little bit

1313
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 8: unclear who exactly is running this, whether this is like

1314
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 8: the Department of Health and Human Services is like a

1315
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 8: broader organization, or just the CDC. But he's trying to

1316
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 8: set up a bunch of people to like basically cook

1317
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 8: the books and try to publish some shit that shows

1318
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 8: a link between vaccines and autism. It's genuinely, deeply murky

1319
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 8: and unclear as to who's doing what right now. But

1320
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 8: one of the people who's been brought in to do

1321
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 8: this is David Gear, who is oh god, oh boy.

1322
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 8: I mean, even by the standards of guy whose job

1323
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 8: it is to like cook evidence to make it look

1324
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 8: like there's a connection between vaccines and autism, even by

1325
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 8: their standards, Gear is like an absolute fucking hack. So

1326
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 8: we talked about Andrew Wakefield on this show, and there

1327
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,680
Speaker 8: is weirdly a Wayfield connection here too. So Wakefield is

1328
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 8: the doctor who originally cooked up like a connection between

1329
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:20,560
Speaker 8: the MMR vaccine and autism. Gear is from like a

1330
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 8: slightly different faction of these cranks, and this is this

1331
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 8: is the faction that's work that's like the most closely

1332
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 8: aligned with Harf K. Junior. And this is the faction

1333
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 8: that thinks that like weird methyl mercury or whatever the

1334
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 8: fuck in some older vaccines was causing autism, which like, no,

1335
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,799
Speaker 8: it wasn't, but he, you know, he and his dad,

1336
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 8: Mark Gear like did a whole bunch of work to

1337
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 8: try to sort of establish this evidence. I'm gonna read

1338
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 8: this from NBC just describing their work. Quote, the Gear

1339
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 8: is conducted research from a makeshift laboratory in their in

1340
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 8: their carpeted, wood paneled suburban Maryland basement, so get They're

1341
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 8: doing this shit from their basement. Published several studies, many

1342
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 8: of which were retracted, and promoted an unproven treatment for

1343
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,600
Speaker 8: autism that cost families tens of thousands of dollars and

1344
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 8: included injections of loopron, a drug used for prostate cancer

1345
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:20,560
Speaker 8: and early puberty in children. It's only approved for precocious

1346
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,799
Speaker 8: puberty and comes with side effects including bone damage, heart issues,

1347
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 8: and seizures. They diagnosed kids with precocious puberty without proper

1348
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 8: testing and misled parents in the thinking they were signing

1349
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 8: up for an approved autism therapy. A twenty eleven Maryland

1350
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 8: Border Physicians' investigation found the Gears that violated standards of

1351
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 8: care so to be back up for a second, right, A,

1352
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 8: they claimed that mercury and vaccines is causing autism. B

1353
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,959
Speaker 8: they claimed to be able to treat it with puberty.

1354
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 8: But the here autism with a puberty blocker, Yes, which

1355
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 8: is an awes extremely funny given like you know all

1356
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 8: of that, these people are like, you know what, trying

1357
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 8: to bam puberty block give it to them. That's that's fine.

1358
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 6: We're gonna cure autism by giving all these autistic kids

1359
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 6: puberty blockers and making them trans Sure, sure, let's go

1360
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 6: for it. Let's give let's give that a shot. I'm sure,

1361
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 6: I'm sure that won't create a whole new problem for them.

1362
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah that uh that.

1363
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 6: A bone damage thing isn't real. But that's fine.

1364
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1365
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, this is one of the other problems is this

1366
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 8: is like you get a lot of sources that are

1367
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 8: just fucking making ship up about these fucking diseases.

1368
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 6: To be fair, I also am probably I'm unfamiliar with

1369
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 6: this exact puberty suppresses.

1370
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't think. In general, Yeah, density.

1371
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 6: Loss of blockers is mostly mostly negligible.

1372
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 8: Yeah. So so again again, this guy is like I

1373
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 8: found the cure for autism. And it's puberty blocks.

1374
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 6: Very funny, you know, I do know a lot of

1375
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 6: autistic people that have gotten how do I say this,

1376
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 6: they've seemed more comfortable once they've transitioned.

1377
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 8: I guess I'll see it like that. Look, it's being

1378
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:07,879
Speaker 8: on the right puberty blocker is better for an autistic

1379
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 8: kid than going through puberty if you are trans. Oh

1380
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 8: but yess.

1381
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 6: But this also shows how like the attack on puberty

1382
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 6: blockers for you know, quote unquote trans minors is completely nonsense,

1383
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 6: because these drugs have been used for SIS children to

1384
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 6: cease early on set puberty. These are fully reversible. Yeah,

1385
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 6: these are used for SIS children. It's used by these

1386
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 6: like hacks and weirdos to quote unquote cure autism.

1387
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, by these same people as an autism.

1388
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 6: Here for the vaccines, oh my, even though these are

1389
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 6: the same like drugs, these quote unquote like chemical castration drugs,

1390
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 6: as Matt Walsh would put it, are you know now

1391
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:49,639
Speaker 6: trying to be banned, uh for for for trans children?

1392
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 6: So you know, hypocrisy always, always always matters. It's always

1393
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 6: it's always important to point out their hypocrisy because that's

1394
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 6: how we win. So here this is one one more

1395
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 6: step towards victory, Garrison.

1396
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,240
Speaker 8: Garrison putting out hypocrisy is important because morale's a tarada struggle.

1397
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 8: It makes you feel good, and that's a little bit important,

1398
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 8: average John Stewart post. But okay, let's continue. So his father,

1399
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 8: Mark Gear, who he was doing a bunch of this

1400
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 8: research wish, was short of his medical license. Now, David

1401
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 8: Gear actually amazingly, amazingly was not strict of his medical

1402
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:28,680
Speaker 8: license at Garritton. Do you want to guess why he

1403
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 8: wasn't strict of his medical license. He didn't have one.

1404
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 8: He didn't fucking have one, so instead, instead he was

1405
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 8: prosecuted for doing this shit without a medical license. He

1406
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 8: also doesn't have a medical degree. He has like a

1407
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 8: liberal arts dek okay, that.

1408
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 6: Rules these these liberal art students are giving our kids

1409
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 6: transgender hormones many such reasons.

1410
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,679
Speaker 8: He's like the only person I've ever seen who actually

1411
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 8: genuinely did do like dangerous and unauthorized like fucking like medical,

1412
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:11,280
Speaker 8: like unauthorized medical experiments on children with puberty blockers. Like

1413
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:13,799
Speaker 8: He's the only one. Yeah, this is the.

1414
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 6: First instance I've like heard of like mass unethical use

1415
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:20,759
Speaker 6: of puberty suppressing drugs and it's.

1416
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 8: A fucking anti vaxxery and this is the guy they're

1417
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 8: bringing into the like the cook up a connection between

1418
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:27,799
Speaker 8: vaccines and autism using like fucking bears data or whatever

1419
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 8: so investigative journals. Brian Deer, who is i think probably

1420
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 8: most famous to people who've watched like an h bomber

1421
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 8: guy video as the guy who brought down disgraced X

1422
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:42,600
Speaker 8: doctor to Andrew Wakefield. Deer like also wrote about this guy,

1423
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 8: like in his like unbelievably dog shit study about h SO.

1424
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 8: So he publishes like an unbelievably dogshit study about like

1425
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 8: the mercury and vaccines causes autism, whatever the fuck, and

1426
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 8: it gets basically like immediately obliterated the moment autism, like

1427
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 8: activists discover it and like, holy fucking shit, like these

1428
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 8: people are evil. I'm going to read a quote from

1429
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 8: Brian Deer's article about it, one of miss Siedell's that

1430
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:12,639
Speaker 8: that's the person who like the auctism like advocate activists

1431
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 8: to you, like discovered this stuff. One of her complaints

1432
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:19,679
Speaker 8: concerning the Gears a parent institutional review. The seven member

1433
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:23,679
Speaker 8: IRB Institutional Review Board consists of Mark and Dave Gear,

1434
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 8: doctor Gear's wife, two of his business associates, and two

1435
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 8: mothers of autistic children, one of whom has publicly acknowledged

1436
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 8: that her son is the patient's last subject at doctor

1437
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 8: Gear and the other whom is a plaintiff in three

1438
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 8: pending vaccine injury claims. So the IRB, right, this is

1439
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 8: like an ethical review board thing that you're supposed to

1440
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:47,680
Speaker 8: go through to get your studies like approved. So the

1441
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 8: IRB for the study again is these two guys, his

1442
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 8: dad's fucking wife, two of the business associates, and the

1443
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 8: mothers of two attic children who think that that vaccines

1444
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 8: cause autism and are like one of whom is in

1445
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 8: a lawsuit about it and the other the one is

1446
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 8: taking the fucking puberty blockers to try to cure the autism.

1447
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 8: So this is the guy who is being brought in

1448
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 8: to do the book cooking is a guy with no

1449
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 8: medical license, no medical degree, who had to retract his

1450
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 8: papers because they were bullshit.

1451
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1452
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 8: Also, and this is something that that's common between him

1453
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 8: and R. K. Junior is all these people they think

1454
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 8: that like me. And this is gonna be relevant when

1455
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 8: we get to the sort of HIV AIDS. Part of

1456
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 8: this is that these people think that diseases are caused

1457
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 8: by malnutrition and not by you know, like diseases, and

1458
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 8: they think that you can treat them with just being

1459
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 8: healthy instead of like vaccines. And you know, this is

1460
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 8: this is their worldview, right, this pepul or sort of

1461
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 8: view genesis. This is also why they like one of

1462
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 8: the reasons why they fucking hate autism so much is

1463
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 8: that they're just you know, just on on a sort

1464
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 8: of political level, like that's just that's just sort of

1465
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 8: that's just what their ideology is.

1466
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 6: Imagine how many skilled drone pilots they're going to lose.

1467
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 6: It's really going to backfire on I.

1468
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 8: We will see.

1469
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:06,679
Speaker 6: Speaking of womp wamp, here's some ads.

1470
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,680
Speaker 8: All right, we're back. Let's hear more about Robert F.

1471
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 6: Kennedy Junior, the second Kennedy to have a hole in

1472
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:28,560
Speaker 6: his head, but this one's from a worm WHOA.

1473
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 4: Okay, So let's let's talk about the last group of

1474
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 4: things here, which is another series of massive budget cuts

1475
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 4: that they're doing. This is another thing where they have

1476
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 4: a giant list of grants that they're fucking cutting. This

1477
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 4: is another like anti DEI and so you know, there's

1478
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 4: a lot of the things that I guess you would

1479
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 4: expect from one of these, like you can only study

1480
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 4: white people ones. So, like, there are a whole bunch

1481
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 4: of programs in this list of like grants that they're

1482
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 4: cutting that are like studying you know, racism and medicine

1483
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 4: and like the different medical outcomes between like people of

1484
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 4: different races because they're getting different levels of medical care

1485
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 4: and because of the environments that they're in. And this

1486
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 4: is all stuff that like, you know, these people do

1487
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,839
Speaker 4: not want there to be research demonstrating that like racism

1488
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 4: exists in the medical system, because it's it's just extremely

1489
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 4: bad for there just to be objective evidence that there

1490
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:26,639
Speaker 4: is racism and that it's bad and that it kills people.

1491
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 4: So another very bleak thing that I haven't seen much

1492
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 4: coverage of is that a lot of these grants were

1493
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 4: funding research into trans healthcare and also the effects of

1494
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 4: like violence against trans people and things like mental health,

1495
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 4: you know. And this is also something that's devastating because

1496
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 4: like the state of trans medicine, it's like we know

1497
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 4: things that are safe and we know things that work,

1498
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 4: which is just letting people transition, but also there's so

1499
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 4: much more stuff that we need in terms of like

1500
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 4: hormone regimes that like work better, right and things like that,

1501
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 4: and also like you know, just sort of like basic

1502
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 4: health outcome stuff. And yeah, these people do not want

1503
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 4: anyone to know exactly how bad they're They're fucking transphobia

1504
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 4: is affecting the people that they're inflicting it on, and

1505
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 4: so yeah, they're like, fuck it, we'll just get rid

1506
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 4: of all these people's funding. There's also a whole bunch

1507
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 4: of stuff that has to do with COVID. I was

1508
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 4: going to read the description of one of the fucking

1509
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 4: grants they cut to give you a sense of like

1510
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 4: the shit that they're cutting. Development of a handheld rapid

1511
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 4: air sensing system to monitor and quantify stars COVID too

1512
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 4: in aerosols in real time, which actually would be an

1513
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 4: unbelievably useful thing, right, Like a system that could detect

1514
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 4: fucking COVID like aerosols like in real time and tell

1515
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 4: you that there's fucking COVID in the air, staggeringly useful.

1516
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 4: They don't fucking want it. One of the big things

1517
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 4: that they cut is, like you know, we're talking about

1518
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 4: this with sort of like cutting like programs that study

1519
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 4: structure racism and medicine. They basically went on a like

1520
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 4: a county by county basis and found every single grant,

1521
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 4: like state by state, Cannaby county, city by city, every

1522
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 4: single grant that talks about studying the effects of COVID

1523
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,720
Speaker 4: on non white people, you know, and they're doing this.

1524
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 4: I think people have forgotten about this. But one of

1525
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:14,760
Speaker 4: the things that RFK Junior said, like I think this

1526
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 4: is dream the campaign was he had this giant rants

1527
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 4: a boy how COVID was like specifically targeted to leave

1528
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,679
Speaker 4: Chinese people in Jews alive, Which is great.

1529
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 8: That is how he put it.

1530
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 6: Someone should probably report that to Trump's Anti Semitism task Force. Yeah, yeah,

1531
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 6: you know, Hall monitor whatever.

1532
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 8: No one cares anymore. Yeah, I mean there's you know.

1533
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 8: So so they're just trying to destroy all the stuff.

1534
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 8: They've also just like in blocks, just like got rid

1535
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 8: of every single fucking thing that was funding like any

1536
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:51,559
Speaker 8: program that was like mental health care as a block thing.

1537
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,400
Speaker 8: They're just cutting all of it. So that's gonna make

1538
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 8: everyone even more normal than we already fucking are.

1539
01:26:56,600 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 6: The Actually I agree with this because this is the

1540
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 6: one thing where I think the lifestyle choice thing does

1541
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:05,519
Speaker 6: matter because I just read Yawi when I'm sad, and

1542
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 6: it fixes me. And if everyone does that, I think

1543
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 6: we don't need any of these other mental health services.

1544
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:22,759
Speaker 8: What'd you do in your manic though? Read more Yaoi.

1545
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 6: Because famously, the Yawi, the Yawi you're reading demographic the

1546
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:28,000
Speaker 6: most mentally stable and normal population.

1547
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 8: God. One of the other ones that's unbelievably concerning is

1548
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 8: again like county by county going through and cutting funding

1549
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 8: for like things things that promote child vaccination. They are

1550
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 8: systemically trying to cut off kids from getting vaccines, and

1551
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 8: they're trying to get rid of anything that opposes like

1552
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 8: their efforts to try to convince everyone to, like all

1553
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 8: parents to fucking not have your kids get vaccines. They

1554
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:58,280
Speaker 8: also cut a whole bunch of grants for rapid disease response,

1555
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,320
Speaker 8: which is great. We'll get to the exact reason why

1556
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 8: that's like so fucking terrifying in a second. In the

1557
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:07,160
Speaker 8: like very very immediate term. They also have killed in

1558
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 8: one hundred and forty five grants for HIV, and this

1559
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 8: is a whole bunch of different HIV programs. They are

1560
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 8: killing funding for distributing and getting people to use PREP,

1561
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 8: which is a pill that like massively helps prevent HIV infections,

1562
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 8: especially if you were a trans woman and you were

1563
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 8: having sex, like you should get on PREP or a twink,

1564
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 8: I will say thank you. Yeah, the uptake rates for

1565
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,680
Speaker 8: trans women are specifically lower, which is the thing that

1566
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:36,599
Speaker 8: we know because we have these fucking funding and these

1567
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:38,599
Speaker 8: and we're not gonna have that shit anymore because they're

1568
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 8: they're cutting all the fucking funding for these, for these

1569
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 8: fucking research programs.

1570
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:44,600
Speaker 6: I sometimes do forget that there are trans women with

1571
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,679
Speaker 6: different like lived like sexual backgrounds than me, because coming

1572
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 6: coming out of coming out of twink culture, it's like ingrained.

1573
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 8: Like your co host who permanently has only ever come

1574
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 8: out of lesbian culture.

1575
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 6: Yes, because in uh, in twin culture, getting on PREP

1576
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 6: is is ingrained pretty hard at this point.

1577
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, well it's it's ingrained in a lot of places,

1578
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:10,799
Speaker 8: but there's places where where it isn't. And those places

1579
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 8: are where things go very very bad, very quickly, which

1580
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 8: is why obviously they're they're eliminating the research for this

1581
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 8: because they want to fucking kill queer people like they

1582
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 8: think they think that HIV is a fucking lifestyle choice.

1583
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 8: RF Kid Junior particular things is because of poppers, which is.

1584
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:31,400
Speaker 6: Now leading to the poppers raids. Red alert everybody, red alert. Yeah,

1585
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 6: it's it's getting pretty scary out there.

1586
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,920
Speaker 8: So it's it's really fucking bleak. I mean they've cut

1587
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 8: you know, I mean they're they're they're trying to just

1588
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 8: fucking get rid of this because these people are just

1589
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 8: fucking unhinged, virulent homophobes and transphobes, and yeah, they want

1590
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 8: to fucking cut these programs because they think it'll hurt us.

1591
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 8: They've also laid off the entire Office of Infectious Diseases

1592
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:58,439
Speaker 8: and HIV AIDS policy staff. Is that bad? Oh it's bad.

1593
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:02,360
Speaker 8: Here's it's fairy CBS. Yeah, So they do child they're

1594
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 8: one of the other guers that a childhood vaccination efforts.

1595
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 8: They also run the fucking National Vaccine Program, which nobody

1596
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:09,680
Speaker 8: knows what's gonna happen to it now because again, the

1597
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 8: thing that was supposed to run it's just fucking gone.

1598
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:13,719
Speaker 8: So who the fuck knows what's happening with that now.

1599
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 8: They are probably going to just completely destroy Trump's like

1600
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 8: giant Trump actually in his first term had a giant

1601
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 8: program to like en HIV that like kind of did

1602
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 8: stuff because it was someone else's program that Trump just

1603
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:25,440
Speaker 8: kind of implemented.

1604
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 6: We're getting so close to the HIV vaccine.

1605
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:34,759
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, and you know, and so who fucking knows,

1606
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 8: it's probably just completely fucked. Yeah, this is going to

1607
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,559
Speaker 8: have just unbelievably hideous consequences on millions and millions of people.

1608
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 8: And they that's not even though they don't give a shit,

1609
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 8: it's that they think it's cool and funny and based

1610
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 8: when people like us fucking die. Now, on the other hands,

1611
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 8: the rest of the US population is about to run

1612
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:55,000
Speaker 8: into the same fucking thing that all of these stupid

1613
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 8: ass bankers thought, which is that oh, Trump will just

1614
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,639
Speaker 8: fuck with the queries and leave us alone. No, we're

1615
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 8: gonna was in the same place that I closed the

1616
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 8: last time I talked about fucking RFK junior, which is

1617
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 8: the fucking bird flu, which is that he wants the

1618
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 8: dillusion to the bird flu is he wants to fucking

1619
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 8: let it rip, and he just wants to just like

1620
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:11,519
Speaker 8: be like, oh, we can just like take the birds

1621
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,519
Speaker 8: to survive the bird flu, and we'll just let the

1622
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 8: We'll just let it spread and just use those ones

1623
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 8: and those ones will be healthy now. So thing about

1624
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 8: this bird flu right is that it kills within three

1625
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:22,640
Speaker 8: to four days. I mean ill just Matt Hosey and

1626
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 8: Scientific Americas describes how this thing again within three to

1627
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 8: four days hasn't a ninety to one hundred percent kill rate.

1628
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 8: So you know you can't just do this right because

1629
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 8: they'll just it just fucking kills all the birds. He

1630
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 8: doesn't want to fucking vaccinate the birds, which is the

1631
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 8: thing that like, if you want to stop this but

1632
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:40,719
Speaker 8: this this fucking pandemic from.

1633
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:42,679
Speaker 4: Spreading, then you need to do it right.

1634
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:46,200
Speaker 8: And once again I need I need to emphasize enough

1635
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 8: that when when I when I talked to virologist about this,

1636
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 8: they said that letting the bird flu rip through all

1637
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 8: the fucking bird populations, right, just letting you fucking spread,

1638
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 8: letting it kill everything until you only have the ones

1639
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 8: that like didn't die. Is if you were like trying

1640
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 8: to cook up conditions like field conditions specifically to try

1641
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 8: to get it to develop a mutation to spread to humans,

1642
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 8: this is what you would do as you would just

1643
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:09,720
Speaker 8: let it fucking spread un controlled and kill everything. So

1644
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:12,080
Speaker 8: this is what we're doing at the same time as

1645
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:15,599
Speaker 8: again anti vaxxers are fucking running the running our fucking

1646
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:19,799
Speaker 8: vaccine services. As we are cutting the staff of cutting

1647
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:23,639
Speaker 8: grant funding for people who do response to rapid response

1648
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:26,759
Speaker 8: to emerging diseases, as we are cutting the fucking entire

1649
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 8: policy staff for the Office of Infectious Diseases. They are

1650
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 8: building a fucking pandemic. And all of these fucking people

1651
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 8: think that COVID was fucking cooked up in a lab.

1652
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 8: And what they are doing is like they are, they

1653
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 8: are now doing the thing they are accusing everyone else

1654
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 8: is doing, which is they are fucking at timpting damblemant

1655
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 8: policy to cook up a fucking play in a lab.

1656
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 2: Excep.

1657
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 8: It's not going in a lab, is going to be

1658
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 8: in America's fucking factory farms, and we are all going

1659
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 8: to suffer the consequences of it.

1660
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 6: Well, I assume you saw the statement from Canter Analysts

1661
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:59,760
Speaker 6: on Monday, the Wall Street investment firm. This founder was

1662
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,800
Speaker 6: like a really was a really big Trump donor, was

1663
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 6: on the inauguration committee. But two of their analysts put

1664
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 6: out a statement today calling to reevaluate RFK Junior as

1665
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,479
Speaker 6: a Secretary of Health and Human Services, calling out to

1666
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 6: quote unquote apparent anti science and libertarian agenda, saying it

1667
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:22,360
Speaker 6: will put people's lives in jeopardy to advance a discredited

1668
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 6: theory on vaccines.

1669
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 8: Look, I will say this, like, there are a lot

1670
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 8: of riffs in the Trump coalition. RFK Junior and his

1671
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:32,920
Speaker 8: people cannot fucking be allowed to run these institutions. They

1672
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 8: need to be fucking brought out now. If we do

1673
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 8: not do this now, millions of people are going to die.

1674
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 8: I have been saying this. I am going to continue

1675
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:41,679
Speaker 8: to say this because you can see in real time

1676
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 8: all of the things that are going to lead to

1677
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 8: all of these people fucking dying. And you know, his

1678
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 8: position is not incredibly secure in this coalition, right, Like, Yeah,

1679
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:52,880
Speaker 8: there are lots of sectors of capital who don't want

1680
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 8: the entire fucking population of the United States die in

1681
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 8: a plague.

1682
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1683
01:33:56,280 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 6: After Carl's grandson's resignation to his analysts also put out

1684
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 6: a statement advocating for vaccine use and specifically against RFK

1685
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 6: Junior and his vaccine rhetoric. Biotech investors also spread similar

1686
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:15,640
Speaker 6: anti RFK Junior rhetoric over the weekend following marx resignation.

1687
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 8: So, yeah, go fucking I don't know. I don't I

1688
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,880
Speaker 8: don't know exactly which public official you pressure or who

1689
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 8: you go scream at to try to get rid of

1690
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 8: this guy before he'd fucking gets us all killed. But

1691
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 8: go do that, I don't know, Go harassed or like

1692
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 8: legislator or whatever, or like, find find the nearest person

1693
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 8: who can can can be yelled at, who will convey this.

1694
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:39,320
Speaker 6: Stand outside your local CDC office to sign and protest

1695
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 6: the CDC.

1696
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:47,680
Speaker 8: The hospitals are empty. It's fake. Oh god, And on

1697
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 8: that note, getting us yet another fucking one of those.

1698
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 8: Actually do they even do the misinformation labels anymore? Onlike

1699
01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 8: Spotify and shit and like YouTube, Well, of course not. God,

1700
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,000
Speaker 8: we lost the election. It's not happy.

1701
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:05,599
Speaker 6: Wow, truth and reasonable liss lost the election.

1702
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:10,080
Speaker 8: Sorry not we So all right, yeah, this is the

1703
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:12,960
Speaker 8: city could appen here. Get this guy out of office

1704
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:15,560
Speaker 8: before we all fucking die in a plague.

1705
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:42,200
Speaker 6: Again, this is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis today,

1706
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:45,680
Speaker 6: I'm joined by James Stout. This episode is going to

1707
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 6: be about ice actions against students, scholars, and professors around

1708
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:54,679
Speaker 6: the country and this wave of deportations targeting people engaged

1709
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:58,560
Speaker 6: in pro Palestine speech. Protest, as well as some individuals

1710
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:00,120
Speaker 6: who have been roped up in this new way of

1711
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 6: deportations who have not publicly engaged in Palestine activism. Let's

1712
01:36:06,479 --> 01:36:10,800
Speaker 6: start on the evening of Saturday, March eighth, my Mood

1713
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:13,599
Speaker 6: Khalil and his wife were returning home from dinner when

1714
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:16,719
Speaker 6: plane closed. ICE agents followed the couple into their campus

1715
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:20,679
Speaker 6: apartment building at Columbia University. A man wearing a Marvel

1716
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:24,639
Speaker 6: graphic tea arrested Khalil for then unknown reasons and threatened

1717
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 6: to arrest Khalil's wife, who is eight months pregnant and

1718
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 6: an American citizen. When Khalil's wife brought his green card

1719
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:33,639
Speaker 6: from their apartment, she says, one of the ICE agents

1720
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 6: placed a phone call informing someone Khalil was a permanent resident,

1721
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 6: to which the person on the phone replied, let's bring

1722
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:41,720
Speaker 6: him in any way.

1723
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:44,519
Speaker 1: You've got to be under arrest, so turn.

1724
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:51,320
Speaker 8: Turn around, turn around, going to be his phone?

1725
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 2: Okay, you.

1726
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:03,719
Speaker 5: Worked anymore?

1727
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:05,400
Speaker 8: You guys really don't.

1728
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 6: Need to be doing all of that.

1729
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 8: During the arrest.

1730
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 6: Khalil's lawyer, Amy Greer, spoke in the film with one

1731
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 6: of the ICE agents, who said that they were acting

1732
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 6: on State Department orders to revoke Khalil's student visa. Greer

1733
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 6: reiterated to the agents that Khalil was in fact a

1734
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 6: permanent resident with a green card, but the ICE agent

1735
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:33,760
Speaker 6: just responded by saying they were revoking the green card instead.

1736
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 6: Khalil's a graduate student who has been studying at Columbia

1737
01:37:37,479 --> 01:37:41,000
Speaker 6: for over two years. Last year, Khalil emerged as a

1738
01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:44,639
Speaker 6: visible figure in the college encampment protests, becoming a public

1739
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 6: spokesperson and a lead negotiator on behalf of Columbia University

1740
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 6: apartheid divest Though never being arrested, Khalil faced harassment from

1741
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:58,120
Speaker 6: right wing Zionist dosing campaigns calling for his deportation, and

1742
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 6: when ICE did come for Khalil, disappearing him to a

1743
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:04,480
Speaker 6: detention facility in Louisiana and cutting him off from communication

1744
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 6: with his wife and lawyer. Throughout all of this, he

1745
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 6: was not charged with any crime. Instead, I used in

1746
01:38:11,280 --> 01:38:14,479
Speaker 6: the State Department are using a rarely used Cold War

1747
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,880
Speaker 6: era immigration statute that gives the Secretary of State the

1748
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:20,760
Speaker 6: power to exclude or deport any non citizen of the

1749
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:24,479
Speaker 6: United States if there are quote reasonable grounds to believe

1750
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:29,080
Speaker 6: that in individuals entry, proposed activities, presence or activities in

1751
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:33,759
Speaker 6: the United States would have quote potentially serious adverse foreign

1752
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 6: policy consequences.

1753
01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the one that, like I remember at

1754
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 2: the time, you and I were discussing this se in

1755
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:42,439
Speaker 2: our group chat, and we were trying to work out,

1756
01:38:42,439 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 2: like how the Secretary of State could be revoking a

1757
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:47,920
Speaker 2: green card, Like yeah, and I think you found this,

1758
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:51,520
Speaker 2: so you found it somewhere in it. The Trump administration

1759
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 2: has been very, very good at finding very obscure pieces

1760
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:00,760
Speaker 2: of law that it can wheeld against migrants. Right, No

1761
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 2: one in twenty sixteen would have foreseen what they did

1762
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 2: with Title forty two, which is a public health law,

1763
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:09,519
Speaker 2: and they're doing something similar here. I mean, they may

1764
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:11,719
Speaker 2: have spent the last four years looking for these things,

1765
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:15,839
Speaker 2: escescially when the campus protests began, But this is entirely

1766
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 2: unprecedented as far as them weare.

1767
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:21,800
Speaker 6: And right off this happened, we discussed how this case

1768
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:25,280
Speaker 6: was probably going to be used as a testing ground

1769
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:29,759
Speaker 6: for employing these tactics on a more widespread scale, creating

1770
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:34,320
Speaker 6: legal precedent, and sure enough, Khalil's case was not an outlier.

1771
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 6: This was just the first public instance of the Trump

1772
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 6: administrations directed targeting of students they believed to be associated

1773
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 6: with protests against Israel and its actions in Gaza, and

1774
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 6: this wave of actions by ICE had actually already begun

1775
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:51,679
Speaker 6: before Khalil's arrest. The day before Khalil was arrested, ICE

1776
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 6: agents knocked on the door of PhD student Rajani Shrini Vassen,

1777
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 6: who a few days prior was suddenly notified that her

1778
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:02,680
Speaker 6: student visa had been revoked. When I saygents knocked, she

1779
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:05,639
Speaker 6: did not answer the door. The next day, I showed

1780
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:09,320
Speaker 6: up again to her Columbia University apartment. Trina Aasen was

1781
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 6: not home, but upon hearing of Khalil's arrest just a

1782
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:15,520
Speaker 6: few hours later, she decided to quickly collect some belongings

1783
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:18,759
Speaker 6: and flee to Canada. Five days later, when ICE returned

1784
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:21,720
Speaker 6: to her residence, but this time with a warrant, Trinavasten

1785
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:25,680
Speaker 6: was already gone. Homeland Security Secretary Christy nom praised this

1786
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:27,760
Speaker 6: as quote unquote self deportation.

1787
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they talk about this a lot, Like self deportation

1788
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 2: is definitely one of their goals. They talked about it

1789
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:38,280
Speaker 2: before Trump even came into power. Like that's what we're

1790
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:41,640
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of these spectacle raids and like spectacle

1791
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:45,679
Speaker 2: deportations gear tactic. Yeah, yeah, exactly the desires that people leave.

1792
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:48,400
Speaker 2: Is she a Canadian citizen or like I.

1793
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:51,440
Speaker 6: Don't believe so, No, Okay, it was just the fastest

1794
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 6: flight from LaGuardia out of the country out of like, yeah,

1795
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:56,680
Speaker 6: the closest, the closest she could be.

1796
01:40:56,800 --> 01:40:59,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder what her immigration states is in Canada

1797
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:00,320
Speaker 2: now she.

1798
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:04,040
Speaker 6: Is currently figuring this whole situation out still, okay, navigating

1799
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:06,000
Speaker 6: her legal options both in Canada and the States.

1800
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be interesting too to see what Canada can

1801
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:11,160
Speaker 2: offer her. And like, I don't think the Trump administration

1802
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 2: would go after like having her extradited back because if

1803
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:16,600
Speaker 2: she say she's not accused of a crime, and then

1804
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 2: they've kind of got what they wanted. It'll be interesting

1805
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:20,000
Speaker 2: to follow that.

1806
01:41:19,880 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 6: There is no need for extradition because none of the

1807
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:24,639
Speaker 6: people that were talking about today were accused of any crime.

1808
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. With the other cases of quote unquote like self deportation,

1809
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:30,599
Speaker 2: one of the issues is people have had their passport

1810
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:33,400
Speaker 2: seized and held, like like lots of Venice Whelan migrants,

1811
01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 2: so they actually can't ye or it would be very

1812
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:38,000
Speaker 2: difficult for them to like just get on a fly

1813
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 2: and leave, which.

1814
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:40,879
Speaker 6: I think is in part why she made the decision

1815
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 6: to get out when she could right. DHS claimed in

1816
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 6: a statement that Trine of Uson advocated violence and was

1817
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:53,280
Speaker 6: quote involved in activities supporting hamas a terrorist organization unquote.

1818
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:56,839
Speaker 6: ICE is targeting her seemingly stems from being mass arrested

1819
01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 6: while trying to return to her apartment from a picnic

1820
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 6: friends on the same day as the Hamilton Hill occupation.

1821
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 6: She couldn't get home and was caught up in the

1822
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:10,400
Speaker 6: crowd and was arrested among one hundred other people. She

1823
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 6: received two summons for obstructing traffic and failure to disperse,

1824
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 6: but her case was quickly dismissed. Homeland Security claims that

1825
01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:21,200
Speaker 6: failing to declare these two summons is what caused her

1826
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:22,520
Speaker 6: visa to be revoked.

1827
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:24,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

1828
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:29,479
Speaker 6: Interesting That same week, ICE went after another Green cardholder

1829
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 6: at Columbia, a twenty one year old student named Yung

1830
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 6: Sao Chung, a permanent resident who immigrated to the United

1831
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 6: States from South Korea with her family when she was seven.

1832
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 6: On March ninth, ICE agents visited her parents' home looking

1833
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 6: for Chung, and that day she received an odd text message, reading,

1834
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:48,679
Speaker 6: hi yunsaou. This is Audrey from the police. My job

1835
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:50,439
Speaker 6: is to reach out to you and see if you

1836
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:52,839
Speaker 6: have any questions about your recent arrest and the process

1837
01:42:52,920 --> 01:42:56,639
Speaker 6: going forward. When are you available for a phone call unquote.

1838
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:01,200
Speaker 6: This recent arrest was allegedly in reference to being detained,

1839
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 6: among others, at a sit in protest at Bernard College

1840
01:43:04,360 --> 01:43:08,080
Speaker 6: on March fifth. Chung was charged and then released with

1841
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:12,680
Speaker 6: misdemeanor obstruction. After receiving that sketchy text message, Chung got

1842
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:16,280
Speaker 6: an email from Columbia Public Safety reading quote, the US

1843
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 6: Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York has

1844
01:43:18,720 --> 01:43:21,960
Speaker 6: asked us to inform you that Homeland Security Investigation Agents

1845
01:43:22,120 --> 01:43:24,320
Speaker 6: are seeking to make contact with you in connection with

1846
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:28,760
Speaker 6: an administrative warrant for your arrest. Consistent with universities practice,

1847
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 6: we wanted to share this information and their request with you.

1848
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:34,120
Speaker 6: If you are represented by council, it may make sense

1849
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 6: for your lawyer to speak directly with DHS unquote. Chung's

1850
01:43:38,280 --> 01:43:41,559
Speaker 6: lawyer decided to call quote unquote to Audrey from the police,

1851
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:45,040
Speaker 6: who revealed that she was actually an HSI agent and

1852
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 6: that the State Department was revoking Miss Chung's residency status. Now,

1853
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:53,599
Speaker 6: rather than opting for self deportation or turning herself into

1854
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:57,320
Speaker 6: immigration authorities, Chung decided to go into hiding and fight

1855
01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:00,920
Speaker 6: the deportation in the courts while trying to evade ICED attention.

1856
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 6: When ICE failed to locate her, they enlisted the help

1857
01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:07,120
Speaker 6: of federal prosecutors. To quote from the New York Times quote,

1858
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:10,800
Speaker 6: on March tenth, Perry Carboni, a high ranking lawyer in

1859
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,519
Speaker 6: the Federal Prosecutor's office, told Miss Amaud, miss Chung's attorney

1860
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:17,400
Speaker 6: that the Secretary of State, mister Rubio, had revoked Miss

1861
01:44:17,439 --> 01:44:20,840
Speaker 6: Chung's visa. Miss A mad responded that Miss Chung was

1862
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:22,960
Speaker 6: not in the country on a visa and was a

1863
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:27,240
Speaker 6: permanent resident, according to lawsuit. Mister Carboni responded that mister

1864
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:31,840
Speaker 6: Rubio had quote revoked that as well unquote. Yeah, So

1865
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:34,439
Speaker 6: this is the exact same language we saw with Khalil,

1866
01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 6: and it displays a general uncaring towards who they are

1867
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:40,880
Speaker 6: actually targeting and what their actual legal status is in

1868
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:43,639
Speaker 6: the United States. They think they're going after people student visas,

1869
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:45,479
Speaker 6: but when it turns out they have green cards, that

1870
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:48,120
Speaker 6: doesn't stop them, they still continue to do it anyway.

1871
01:44:49,360 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 6: On March thirteenth, ICE searched two residences on campus with warrants,

1872
01:44:53,479 --> 01:44:57,320
Speaker 6: citing a statute for harboring non citizens, but Chung was

1873
01:44:57,320 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 6: nowhere to be found. Like Khalil, the Trump administration is

1874
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:03,720
Speaker 6: arguing that her presence of the United States hinders the

1875
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:08,760
Speaker 6: administration's foreign policy agenda. But her lawyers note that Chung

1876
01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:11,559
Speaker 6: was not, by any means a quote unquote movement leader.

1877
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:14,320
Speaker 6: She was simply one of hundreds of students who joined

1878
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:18,839
Speaker 6: in nationwide protests against Israel's actions in Gaza. Her lawyer's right, quote,

1879
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 6: Miss Chung has not made public statements to the press

1880
01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:24,320
Speaker 6: or otherwise assumed a high profile role in these protests.

1881
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 6: She was rather one of a large group of college

1882
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:30,360
Speaker 6: students raising, expressing, and discussing shared concerns.

1883
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 2: Quote.

1884
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:36,360
Speaker 6: Chung had previously faced university disciplinary process, which found she

1885
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 6: was not in violation of any university policy related to protests.

1886
01:45:40,280 --> 01:45:45,120
Speaker 6: Last year, Chung's lawyers filed a lawsuit to prevent her deportation,

1887
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 6: claiming that ICE's actions against Chung are illegal and unconstitutional.

1888
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:53,400
Speaker 6: This lawsuit reads quote, Officials at the highest echelon's government

1889
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:56,160
Speaker 6: are attempting to use immigration enforcement as a bludgeon to

1890
01:45:56,200 --> 01:46:01,120
Speaker 6: suppress speech that they dislike, including Miss Chung's space. ICE's

1891
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 6: shocking actions against Miss Chung form a part of a

1892
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:08,240
Speaker 6: larger pattern of attempted US government repression of constitutionally protected

1893
01:46:08,280 --> 01:46:13,840
Speaker 6: protest activity and other forms of speech unquote. On March

1894
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,479
Speaker 6: twenty fifth, a federal judge granted a temporary restraining order

1895
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 6: halting efforts from ICE to detain or relocate Chung. The

1896
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 6: judge said that the government produced quote nothing in the

1897
01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:28,600
Speaker 6: record to indicate Chung is a danger to the community

1898
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:32,519
Speaker 6: or a quote unquote foreign policy risk, or that she

1899
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 6: was in any communication with terrorist organizations. The judge said

1900
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:41,080
Speaker 6: that there would be quote no trip to Louisiana here unquote.

1901
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:44,719
Speaker 6: This is in reference to the big ICE attention facility

1902
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:59,000
Speaker 6: in Louisiana. We'll be right back after this ad break. Okay,

1903
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:03,839
Speaker 6: we're back now. Although Chung has at least temporarily halted

1904
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:09,840
Speaker 6: ICE's efforts to detain or deporter not all legal recourses

1905
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 6: have proven successful. This week, a US district judge declined

1906
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:18,400
Speaker 6: a request to block the deportation of Cornell's student Mamadou

1907
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:22,400
Speaker 6: Tall after the State Department revoked his visa on March

1908
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 6: thirty first, Tall released a statement, quote, given what we

1909
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:28,400
Speaker 6: have seen across the United States, I have lost faith

1910
01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:31,120
Speaker 6: that a favorable ruling from the courts would guarantee my

1911
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:35,240
Speaker 6: personal safety and ability to express my beliefs. I've lost

1912
01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:38,639
Speaker 6: faith I could walk the streets without being abducted. Weighing

1913
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:41,200
Speaker 6: these options, I took the decision to leave on my

1914
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:42,480
Speaker 6: own terms.

1915
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty bleak.

1916
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:49,120
Speaker 6: So Tall has elected for the quote unquote self deportation option,

1917
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:51,880
Speaker 6: at least for now. I believe his case is going

1918
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:54,040
Speaker 6: to continue, but he is not going to remain in

1919
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:55,200
Speaker 6: the United States.

1920
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:55,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1921
01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:58,680
Speaker 2: I think he returned to the UK, right, I believe so.

1922
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:03,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's a British citizen now. Interestingly, last September, Cornell

1923
01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 6: University itself tried to revoke Toall's student visa for involvement

1924
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:10,840
Speaker 6: in student protests, but he successfully appealed and was able

1925
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 6: to continue his African studies PhD remotely.

1926
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. I spoke to him a little bit back then,

1927
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:19,040
Speaker 2: just FIA direct message, and I think at that time,

1928
01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:21,640
Speaker 2: whatever his agreement was, it seems like there was a

1929
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:23,720
Speaker 2: component of it that at least he didn't want to

1930
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 2: talk about it in public, which is fine. Everyone has

1931
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 2: the right to do that, and he should do it

1932
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:31,120
Speaker 2: was better for himself. But maybe I'll try and follow

1933
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 2: up with him again now see if he wanted to speak,

1934
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:36,519
Speaker 2: because he seems to have like he's been of all

1935
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:38,080
Speaker 2: of these people at the one who's been able to

1936
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:41,320
Speaker 2: make the most statements and then control his narrative to

1937
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 2: some degree.

1938
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:42,760
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1939
01:48:42,800 --> 01:48:46,280
Speaker 6: No, he entered this period of like radio silence after

1940
01:48:46,400 --> 01:48:49,919
Speaker 6: he won his appeal last fall, and then only started

1941
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 6: speaking publicly again once he began getting targeted by the

1942
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 6: Trump administration.

1943
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:56,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, like the past month and a half.

1944
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:59,280
Speaker 2: I think he proactively filed that suit right like before.

1945
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:04,519
Speaker 6: Now, the scale that Mark Rubio and Ice are seeking

1946
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:08,639
Speaker 6: for in regards to deportations is seemingly going to be

1947
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:12,639
Speaker 6: increasingly large. On March twenty seventh, Secretary of State Mark

1948
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 6: Rubio claimed that he has revoked over three hundred student

1949
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:19,400
Speaker 6: visas so far, saying at a press conference, quote, we

1950
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:22,200
Speaker 6: do it every day. Every time I find one of

1951
01:49:22,200 --> 01:49:26,559
Speaker 6: these lunatics, I take away their visas unquote. Now, there

1952
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 6: are a few ways the government is currently trying to

1953
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:33,240
Speaker 6: find these quote unquote lunatics. ICE seems to be targeting

1954
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:37,000
Speaker 6: non citizens who have been arrested or detained at Palestine protests,

1955
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:40,080
Speaker 6: even if their charges were subsequently dropped. This is the

1956
01:49:40,120 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 6: case for Chung and Shrini Vawsen, as well as former

1957
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:46,960
Speaker 6: student Leca Cordia, a Palestinian who was arrested at Columbia

1958
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:50,200
Speaker 6: campus protests in April of twenty twenty four She is

1959
01:49:50,240 --> 01:49:53,200
Speaker 6: currently being held in an ICE attention facility in Texas.

1960
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 6: Now beyond arrest records. The government is utilizing the world

1961
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:01,920
Speaker 6: Wide Web and social media to identify new and returning

1962
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 6: visa applicants and possibly current visa holders that quote support

1963
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:12,080
Speaker 6: terrorist organizations unquote. Social media screening of immigrants and visa

1964
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:15,600
Speaker 6: holders has been slowly ramping up since twenty fourteen and

1965
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:19,439
Speaker 6: accelerated during Trump's first term, but a new directive from

1966
01:50:19,479 --> 01:50:23,519
Speaker 6: Secretary of State Mark Rubio titled Enhanced Screening and Social

1967
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:26,880
Speaker 6: Media Vetting for Visa Applicants was sent out on March

1968
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:30,679
Speaker 6: twenty fifth and leaked by journalist Ken Clippenstein. The directive

1969
01:50:30,760 --> 01:50:33,920
Speaker 6: cites two executive orders from Trump, measures to combat anti

1970
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:38,040
Speaker 6: Semitism end quote protecting the United States from foreign terrorists

1971
01:50:38,040 --> 01:50:40,639
Speaker 6: and other national security and public safety threats.

1972
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:41,240
Speaker 8: Quote.

1973
01:50:41,640 --> 01:50:45,559
Speaker 6: The State Department is now requiring consular officers to conduct

1974
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:50,720
Speaker 6: a quote unquote mandatory social media review with screenshotting for

1975
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:54,120
Speaker 6: students and student exchange visitors with the intent of looking

1976
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:58,000
Speaker 6: for evidence of quote advocating for, sympathizing with, or persuading

1977
01:50:58,040 --> 01:51:01,720
Speaker 6: others to endorse or espouse terror activities or support a

1978
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 6: designated foreign terrorist organization unquote. Now this applies to FM

1979
01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:10,960
Speaker 6: and JAY visas, so student exchange visas, academic visas, and

1980
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:16,160
Speaker 6: vocational visas. The directive also instructs officers to search social

1981
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:20,599
Speaker 6: media for quote conduct that bears a hostile attitude towards

1982
01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:25,960
Speaker 6: US citizens or US culture, including government institutions or founding

1983
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 6: principles unquote, which is kind of the most incredibly broad

1984
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:32,920
Speaker 6: thing I've ever seen.

1985
01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:35,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's leaving it at the great discretion

1986
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:36,559
Speaker 2: of the officer.

1987
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:39,559
Speaker 6: Right, There's already been an instance of a US customers

1988
01:51:39,600 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 6: agent's denying entry to someone who had a quote unquote

1989
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:48,439
Speaker 6: anti Trump sentiments found on their phone. Now, though this

1990
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:52,320
Speaker 6: new directive is focused on denying or revoking student visas,

1991
01:51:52,680 --> 01:51:55,439
Speaker 6: the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to expand its

1992
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:59,640
Speaker 6: social media data collection to US citizenship, green card, and

1993
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:04,880
Speaker 6: Islam applicants, basically anyone and everyone in the US immigration system,

1994
01:52:04,920 --> 01:52:07,439
Speaker 6: no matter their current status or what previous vetting they

1995
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:08,679
Speaker 6: might have already gone through.

1996
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:09,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1997
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:12,320
Speaker 6: On March fifth, DHS issued a sixty day notice for

1998
01:52:12,360 --> 01:52:15,679
Speaker 6: public comment on a proposal for quote uniform of vetting

1999
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:20,559
Speaker 6: standards and national security screening unquote that includes the collection

2000
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:23,640
Speaker 6: of social media information for all non citizens applying for

2001
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 6: immigration benefits like citizenship or permanent residency. A statement from

2002
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:32,000
Speaker 6: the US Citizenship and Immigration Service reads, quote, these efforts

2003
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:34,800
Speaker 6: ensure that those seeking immigration benefits to live and work

2004
01:52:34,840 --> 01:52:38,200
Speaker 6: in the United States do not threaten public safety, undermine

2005
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:44,320
Speaker 6: national security, or promote harmful anti American ideologies unquote.

2006
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:48,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the anti American ideologies again is just fastly broad.

2007
01:52:48,520 --> 01:52:51,200
Speaker 8: Right, It's like crazy red scare level stuff.

2008
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm guessing this will be either like a

2009
01:52:55,280 --> 01:52:57,640
Speaker 2: literal control f of whatever they can find of your

2010
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:01,519
Speaker 2: public social media or AI, some kind of AI assistant.

2011
01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:03,200
Speaker 2: That's what it seems to be, right, Like.

2012
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 6: Former immigration agents have suggested that they're probably going to

2013
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:08,880
Speaker 6: use some AI system for this, as they've already kind

2014
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:11,519
Speaker 6: of used more primitive versions. But ramping up to this

2015
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:14,600
Speaker 6: scale and with like this increased focus and attention on

2016
01:53:14,920 --> 01:53:17,360
Speaker 6: quote unquote AI is going to affect the way that

2017
01:53:17,400 --> 01:53:18,559
Speaker 6: they do this betting process.

2018
01:53:18,600 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 8: Absolutely.

2019
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:19,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2020
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 5: Great.

2021
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 6: So though the government is trying to increase their social

2022
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:28,240
Speaker 6: media screening, so far, they actually haven't had to do

2023
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 6: that much of their own research to identify targets for removal.

2024
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:37,160
Speaker 6: On March seventeenth, a Georgetown scholar named Badar Khan Suri

2025
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 6: was arrested by Homeland Security outside his home in Virginia,

2026
01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:42,839
Speaker 6: where he lives with his wife, who's a US citizen,

2027
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:47,000
Speaker 6: and their three kids. According to Surrey's lawyer, masked agents

2028
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 6: quote refused to tell him the basis for the arrest,

2029
01:53:50,360 --> 01:53:55,759
Speaker 6: handcuffed him, and forced him into an unmarked black SUV unquote. Later,

2030
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:58,639
Speaker 6: his wife was informed that her husband's visa was revoked

2031
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:02,200
Speaker 6: based on social media posts and that Surrey was sent

2032
01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:07,160
Speaker 6: to ICE attention in Louisiana. Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Tricia

2033
01:54:07,240 --> 01:54:12,120
Speaker 6: McLoughlin posted on x that Surrey was quote actively spreading

2034
01:54:12,200 --> 01:54:16,479
Speaker 6: Hamas propaganda and promoting anti Semitism on social media. The

2035
01:54:16,520 --> 01:54:19,800
Speaker 6: Secretary of State issued a determination that Surrey's activities and

2036
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:25,639
Speaker 6: presents in the United States rendered him deportable unquote. Of course,

2037
01:54:25,720 --> 01:54:29,320
Speaker 6: any single post in support of Palestine is going to

2038
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:34,000
Speaker 6: be seen as quote unquote promoting antisemitism. According to Mark Rubio,

2039
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:37,920
Speaker 6: Surrey's lawyer wrote in a court filing, quote, doctor Surrey

2040
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 6: is an academic, not an activist. But he spoke out

2041
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:43,920
Speaker 6: on social media about his views on the Israel Gazo war.

2042
01:54:44,360 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 6: Even more so, his wife is an outspoken critic of

2043
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:52,320
Speaker 6: the Israeli government and the violence it has perpetuated against Palestinians. Yeah,

2044
01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:55,280
Speaker 6: see that he was identified through his wife, right, correct,

2045
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:56,440
Speaker 6: and we'll get to that.

2046
01:54:56,560 --> 01:54:56,880
Speaker 2: Okay.

2047
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:59,680
Speaker 6: Surrey has no criminal record, and according to a colleague,

2048
01:54:59,720 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 6: he did not attend campus protests. However, Surre's lawyer writes

2049
01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:06,640
Speaker 6: that his family have been victims of a docsing campaign,

2050
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:09,600
Speaker 6: with his wife stating that a website had quote claimed

2051
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 6: falsely that my husband and I have quote ties to

2052
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:16,720
Speaker 6: Hamas unquote. The Homeland Security Assistant Secretary references that claim

2053
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:20,360
Speaker 6: in a public statement on Twitter. And this harassment stems

2054
01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:23,400
Speaker 6: in part from Surrey's father in law being a maud Yusef,

2055
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 6: a former advisor to Hamas a federal judge blocked serious

2056
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:32,920
Speaker 6: deportation as immigration court proceedings continue, but he still remains

2057
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:33,800
Speaker 6: in iced attention.

2058
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:36,040
Speaker 2: What kind of visa was he on?

2059
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:39,640
Speaker 6: He's not a green card holder. He received his visa

2060
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:43,840
Speaker 6: to continue doctoral research on peace building in Iraq and Afghanistan.

2061
01:55:44,440 --> 01:55:48,000
Speaker 6: It's some kind of like academic or exchange visa. I

2062
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 6: don't think we know the exact type that he has.

2063
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:53,960
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that would be it would be interesting to

2064
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:56,920
Speaker 2: know if, like, are they searching just through f one

2065
01:55:57,000 --> 01:56:00,280
Speaker 2: visa databases or they I mean obviously not a find

2066
01:56:00,320 --> 01:56:01,560
Speaker 2: these green card people, but.

2067
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 6: Like, well, I think specifically in this case, they're searching

2068
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 6: social media. They're not searching through their own databases. They

2069
01:56:08,360 --> 01:56:10,840
Speaker 6: don't care what kind of visa he has. They're looking

2070
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:13,400
Speaker 6: at this docksing campaign that's been targeted at him and

2071
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:17,240
Speaker 6: his family for like over a year and using that

2072
01:56:17,320 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 6: as the basis to deport him.

2073
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:22,000
Speaker 2: Right, and then being like, can we deport he's not

2074
01:56:22,040 --> 01:56:22,600
Speaker 2: a citizen?

2075
01:56:22,680 --> 01:56:25,800
Speaker 6: So yes, basically even though his wife is a citizen, yeah.

2076
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:28,080
Speaker 2: It's children puberly therefore also citizens.

2077
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:32,000
Speaker 6: His wife, whose father is a mod yusef. They can't

2078
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:33,840
Speaker 6: deport her because she's a citizen, or at least they

2079
01:56:33,840 --> 01:56:35,920
Speaker 6: can't deport her right now. Who knows if they'll try

2080
01:56:36,160 --> 01:56:39,400
Speaker 6: to denaturalize in the future. Yeah, but this is the

2081
01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:40,920
Speaker 6: easiest person to target.

2082
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's kind of what they're going for.

2083
01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:49,440
Speaker 2: Like a lot of this is it's like the politics

2084
01:56:49,480 --> 01:56:52,200
Speaker 2: of owning the Libs, Right, It's like the politics of

2085
01:56:52,360 --> 01:56:55,440
Speaker 2: being angry at your niece and nephew on Facebook and

2086
01:56:55,720 --> 01:56:59,440
Speaker 2: wanting to humiliate them. Like, It's not a particularly lately

2087
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:03,080
Speaker 2: coherent policy other than like the Palestine protests made a

2088
01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:05,560
Speaker 2: lot of people on the right mad, and they don't

2089
01:57:05,600 --> 01:57:09,640
Speaker 2: like migrants and that now they're using this obscure legal

2090
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:13,440
Speaker 2: provision as a cudgel against everything they dislike.

2091
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:17,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, and using social media to identify people who have

2092
01:57:17,200 --> 01:57:19,120
Speaker 6: never been arrested, never been charged with anything.

2093
01:57:19,360 --> 01:57:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2094
01:57:20,280 --> 01:57:23,440
Speaker 6: We're going to finished our discussion on these doxing campaigns

2095
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:26,640
Speaker 6: and ICE action starting students after this ad break.

2096
01:57:36,280 --> 01:57:37,080
Speaker 4: All right, we're back.

2097
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:41,600
Speaker 6: So right now, the two main vectors for iceed attention,

2098
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:44,360
Speaker 6: whether you have a green card or a visa, seems

2099
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:49,360
Speaker 6: to be previous arrests or these mass doxing campaigns. Now,

2100
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:53,080
Speaker 6: someone like Mahmoud Khalil was never arrested or charged with

2101
01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:55,040
Speaker 6: a crime, but instead it has been the target of

2102
01:57:55,080 --> 01:57:59,040
Speaker 6: harassment from both a local campus doxing account run by

2103
01:57:59,080 --> 01:58:03,120
Speaker 6: Columbia professor and fellow students, as well as larger right

2104
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:07,600
Speaker 6: wing Zionist organizations like Canary Mission. A few days before

2105
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:10,920
Speaker 6: being arrested by Ice, Canary Mission posted a video naming

2106
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:15,280
Speaker 6: Khalil as a quote unquote siren moog suspect it foreign

2107
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:19,280
Speaker 6: national alert? So what is Canary Mission if you're lucky

2108
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 6: enough to be unaware? Since twenty fifteen, Canary Mission has

2109
01:58:22,520 --> 01:58:26,160
Speaker 6: been collecting and publishing personal information of people they accuse

2110
01:58:26,320 --> 01:58:30,120
Speaker 6: of promoting quote hatred of the United States, Israel, and

2111
01:58:30,240 --> 01:58:35,320
Speaker 6: Jews on North American college campuses and beyond unquote. Now

2112
01:58:35,440 --> 01:58:39,959
Speaker 6: they have profiles for a few legitimate American neo Nazis,

2113
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:44,320
Speaker 6: but many profiles only cite criticism of the Israeli government

2114
01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:48,000
Speaker 6: and its actions in Gaza as proof of alleged anti Semitism.

2115
01:58:48,600 --> 01:58:51,080
Speaker 6: And now there is increasing evidence that the government is

2116
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:54,840
Speaker 6: using websites like Canary Mission to target students, professors, and

2117
01:58:54,920 --> 01:59:00,360
Speaker 6: scholars for ICE deportation, essentially outsourcing intail gathering from these

2118
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:05,240
Speaker 6: pro Israel non government organizations. A few weeks ago, Canary

2119
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:09,120
Speaker 6: Mission uploaded a profile for Rumeza oz Turk, a Turkish

2120
01:59:09,200 --> 01:59:13,200
Speaker 6: graduate student at Tufts University. They included a picture her

2121
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:15,720
Speaker 6: resume and linked to an op ed she co wrote

2122
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:19,040
Speaker 6: last year for her student paper criticizing the university for

2123
01:59:19,080 --> 01:59:22,880
Speaker 6: its ties to Israel amidst the Warren Gaza. For this,

2124
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:27,400
Speaker 6: the Canary Mission claimed oz Turk quote engaged in anti

2125
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:32,960
Speaker 6: Israel activism unquote. Two weeks later, while walking alone to

2126
01:59:33,080 --> 01:59:37,120
Speaker 6: Iftar dinner for Ramadan, a plane closes, ICE agent approached

2127
01:59:37,120 --> 01:59:39,880
Speaker 6: oz Turk on the sidewalk. As he grabbed her arms

2128
01:59:39,920 --> 01:59:43,320
Speaker 6: and wrestled away her phone. Five more agents surrounded her

2129
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:47,080
Speaker 6: and pulled up their gator masks as neighbors began filming

2130
01:59:47,160 --> 01:59:50,200
Speaker 6: the arrest. Within twenty four hours, she was moved to

2131
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:54,040
Speaker 6: ICE attention in Louisiana. A statement from Homeland Security claimed

2132
01:59:54,080 --> 01:59:57,880
Speaker 6: that HSI Homeland Security investigation had determined that oz Turk

2133
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:02,000
Speaker 6: quote engaged in activities in support of Hamas, a foreign

2134
02:00:02,080 --> 02:00:07,760
Speaker 6: terrorist organization that relishes the killing of Americans, and Secretary

2135
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:10,160
Speaker 6: of State Mark Rubio said, quote, we gave you a

2136
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:13,120
Speaker 6: visa to come and study and get a degree, not

2137
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:17,000
Speaker 6: to become a social activist that tears up our university campuses.

2138
02:00:17,400 --> 02:00:21,120
Speaker 2: Quote yeah, I mean again, Like writing an op ed

2139
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:24,640
Speaker 2: is like as central to the First Amendment as things

2140
02:00:24,760 --> 02:00:25,120
Speaker 2: can be.

2141
02:00:25,400 --> 02:00:28,800
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, there's no evidence she was even attending campus protests,

2142
02:00:29,160 --> 02:00:33,320
Speaker 6: let alone tearing up tearing up the university she co

2143
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:35,960
Speaker 6: wrote an op ed. And you should not be deported

2144
02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:39,800
Speaker 6: for engaging in protest on a university campus at all. Right,

2145
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:43,640
Speaker 6: this is flatly unconstitutional, extremely worrying. The fact that this

2146
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:47,440
Speaker 6: person just got a profile in the Canary Mission website

2147
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:50,040
Speaker 6: for writing an op ed and then this is used

2148
02:00:50,080 --> 02:00:54,120
Speaker 6: as justification for her deportation is still like an even

2149
02:00:54,160 --> 02:00:55,000
Speaker 6: greater escalation.

2150
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if we're talking about like this is sort

2151
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:01,480
Speaker 2: of like liberal idea of the the marketplace of ideas, right,

2152
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:04,720
Speaker 2: the way that the ideas enter the marketplace, Like, you

2153
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:08,560
Speaker 2: will find nothing more amenable to liberalism than writing an

2154
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:11,200
Speaker 2: op ed in your campus newspaper. Right, that is the

2155
02:01:12,080 --> 02:01:16,320
Speaker 2: most like well behaved, straight down the middle, constitutionally protected

2156
02:01:16,400 --> 02:01:21,400
Speaker 2: thing way to engage in anti genocide activism, pro Palestine activism.

2157
02:01:21,920 --> 02:01:25,520
Speaker 2: So like, in a sense, this one is particularly disturbing,

2158
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:28,200
Speaker 2: Like as a frontal assault on First Amendment. Rise for

2159
02:01:28,240 --> 02:01:29,960
Speaker 2: non citizens is what it is. Yes.

2160
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:33,920
Speaker 6: On March twenty fourth, Canary Mission published a new section

2161
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:39,920
Speaker 6: of their website titled Uncovering Foreign Nationals, which lists the

2162
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:44,640
Speaker 6: profiles of non citizens who they believe qualify for deportation.

2163
02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:45,919
Speaker 2: Jesus.

2164
02:01:46,720 --> 02:01:50,360
Speaker 6: Another far right pro Israel docsn group called Batar, which

2165
02:01:50,480 --> 02:01:55,080
Speaker 6: even the ADL lists as an extremist group. Yeah, which

2166
02:01:55,160 --> 02:01:58,240
Speaker 6: is wild. Batar says that they have given the Troup

2167
02:01:58,240 --> 02:02:02,920
Speaker 6: administration a deportation list of thousands of names, including citizens

2168
02:02:02,920 --> 02:02:07,200
Speaker 6: that they expect to be denaturalized. People like Mamado Tall

2169
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:11,680
Speaker 6: and Mahmood Khalil have been targeted by both of these organizations.

2170
02:02:12,080 --> 02:02:14,080
Speaker 2: People will be familiar with. I don't know if it's

2171
02:02:14,080 --> 02:02:17,080
Speaker 2: Bitar or Bitar, but like you probably have seen videos

2172
02:02:17,080 --> 02:02:21,280
Speaker 2: of them on campus trying to hand pages to people pagers, Yeah,

2173
02:02:21,320 --> 02:02:22,840
Speaker 2: like making.

2174
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:24,840
Speaker 8: Light of the pager attack Israel.

2175
02:02:24,920 --> 02:02:30,240
Speaker 2: Did I mean making a threat? Like sure, Like if

2176
02:02:30,280 --> 02:02:32,200
Speaker 2: you're going to come onto a campus and make a

2177
02:02:32,240 --> 02:02:35,840
Speaker 2: fucking bomb threat and accuse someone else of terrorism, I

2178
02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:37,440
Speaker 2: mean the hypocrisy is kind of the point.

2179
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:40,080
Speaker 6: But or even just like you know, quote unquote celebrating

2180
02:02:40,120 --> 02:02:41,360
Speaker 6: the deaths of people.

2181
02:02:41,160 --> 02:02:45,959
Speaker 2: Right yeah, right, like mocking this attack which killed children,

2182
02:02:46,040 --> 02:02:50,360
Speaker 2: which you know, crippled people. It's just disgusting. It's like

2183
02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:53,640
Speaker 2: just important. They seem to get a lot of attention

2184
02:02:53,720 --> 02:02:55,720
Speaker 2: online because they do the thing where they go up

2185
02:02:55,760 --> 02:03:01,480
Speaker 2: to people and say deliberately provocative things and film their reactions. Right,

2186
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:03,480
Speaker 2: they're kind of IRL trolling.

2187
02:03:04,600 --> 02:03:08,960
Speaker 6: The past week, ICE actions against students have seemingly accelerated.

2188
02:03:09,640 --> 02:03:12,640
Speaker 6: Ali Reza Drudi, a doctoral student from Iran studying at

2189
02:03:12,680 --> 02:03:15,120
Speaker 6: the University of Alabama, was arrested by ICE on March

2190
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:17,680
Speaker 6: twenty fifth in the middle of the night at his

2191
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:22,440
Speaker 6: off campus apartment. Drudi's the entry visa expired, but he

2192
02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:24,400
Speaker 6: was allowed to stay in the States as he still

2193
02:03:24,440 --> 02:03:29,480
Speaker 6: maintained his student's status. It's unknown why exactly he was targeted.

2194
02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:33,680
Speaker 6: He has no ties to protests or any notable online footprint.

2195
02:03:34,520 --> 02:03:38,040
Speaker 2: It could be his ethnic origin, right leg yeah, it

2196
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:40,520
Speaker 2: could be his name, right yeah. But that we should

2197
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:42,880
Speaker 2: explain the status thing a bit more for people who

2198
02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:45,560
Speaker 2: aren't familiar. So, like, sure, your status is when you're

2199
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:48,000
Speaker 2: in good standing with the university, So normally that means

2200
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:51,080
Speaker 2: you need to be enrolled in twelve credits per You

2201
02:03:51,160 --> 02:03:53,480
Speaker 2: might be on semestis, you might be on courts. I

2202
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:55,880
Speaker 2: don't think it's usually matters you have to does a

2203
02:03:55,920 --> 02:03:59,080
Speaker 2: minimum course load. It may be different for different systems.

2204
02:03:59,080 --> 02:04:01,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. You'd also need to be in good

2205
02:04:01,040 --> 02:04:03,760
Speaker 2: standing in terms of like not lay on your fees, right,

2206
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:06,440
Speaker 2: your tuition fees, that kind of stuff, right, not in

2207
02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:09,920
Speaker 2: any you haven't been expelled or excluded from the university

2208
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:12,480
Speaker 2: for any actions that you've taken that kind of thing.

2209
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:16,520
Speaker 2: It means you are currently a student at the university.

2210
02:04:16,600 --> 02:04:20,240
Speaker 2: Basically the only time this normally affects international students that

2211
02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm aware of, because a person who now teaches students

2212
02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:26,640
Speaker 2: is like they can't drop below a certain course load,

2213
02:04:26,680 --> 02:04:28,720
Speaker 2: when otherwise they may wish to drop below a certain

2214
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:31,720
Speaker 2: courseload to either focus on they might have like a

2215
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,760
Speaker 2: research position, they might be doing other stuff on campus

2216
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:37,400
Speaker 2: like taing. Right, Sometimes that ta and counter towards their

2217
02:04:37,400 --> 02:04:39,920
Speaker 2: course load. Sometimes it doesn't, but it can affect things

2218
02:04:39,960 --> 02:04:44,080
Speaker 2: like that. But generally it would be the university that

2219
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:48,640
Speaker 2: would update that status. Right, that would notify US Customs

2220
02:04:48,680 --> 02:04:52,200
Speaker 2: and Immigration if somebody fell out of compliance with that.

2221
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:55,880
Speaker 2: If I'm hearing right, that doesn't seem like that's what

2222
02:04:56,080 --> 02:04:57,120
Speaker 2: happened here, right.

2223
02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:01,320
Speaker 6: No, Simply his entry vis a expired, so if he

2224
02:05:01,640 --> 02:05:04,080
Speaker 6: left the country, he then would have to get another

2225
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:06,920
Speaker 6: visa to get back in, but he can stay as

2226
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:09,720
Speaker 6: long as he still has his valid student status. So

2227
02:05:09,960 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 6: not only is ICE trying to revoke these like visas,

2228
02:05:12,720 --> 02:05:15,839
Speaker 6: but they're trying to essentially say that by revoking these visas,

2229
02:05:16,120 --> 02:05:19,160
Speaker 6: they are also attempting to strip them of their student status,

2230
02:05:19,200 --> 02:05:22,320
Speaker 6: which is like a separate like step. These things can

2231
02:05:22,360 --> 02:05:24,360
Speaker 6: get kind of very very blurry though.

2232
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I don't quite how that works in terms

2233
02:05:27,680 --> 02:05:30,240
Speaker 2: of like our ICE supposed to be able to I

2234
02:05:30,240 --> 02:05:32,080
Speaker 2: don't think it hugely matters at this point.

2235
02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:36,240
Speaker 6: Technically, the State Department does have that ability, but it's

2236
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:40,440
Speaker 6: under the same like foreign policy risk designation, Okay, and

2237
02:05:40,680 --> 02:05:43,480
Speaker 6: they'll justify it by saying, well, his visa already expired,

2238
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:45,920
Speaker 6: so we're just removing him because his visa expired, even

2239
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:47,800
Speaker 6: though that's not really how this works.

2240
02:05:48,200 --> 02:05:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, then they don't have to remove him for that reason.

2241
02:05:51,160 --> 02:05:52,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, in this case, I guess they go for

2242
02:05:52,960 --> 02:05:53,520
Speaker 2: something else.

2243
02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:57,360
Speaker 6: No, because the University of Alabama did not elect to

2244
02:05:57,800 --> 02:06:01,840
Speaker 6: rescind his student status. He was a student good standing, Yeah,

2245
02:06:01,920 --> 02:06:04,760
Speaker 6: and thus legally allowed in the United States.

2246
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:07,879
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like everyone else say, he hadn't done anything

2247
02:06:08,240 --> 02:06:12,120
Speaker 2: that would, under normal circumstances lead to him having any

2248
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:13,880
Speaker 2: interactions with USCIS.

2249
02:06:14,880 --> 02:06:18,120
Speaker 6: Just this last week, I sttained a University of Minnesota

2250
02:06:18,120 --> 02:06:21,760
Speaker 6: grad student at their off campus housing. The university released

2251
02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:24,040
Speaker 6: a statement saying that they had no prior knowledge of

2252
02:06:24,080 --> 02:06:27,920
Speaker 6: this incident and had not shared any information with federal authorities.

2253
02:06:28,480 --> 02:06:30,200
Speaker 6: This person's name is still not released.

2254
02:06:30,680 --> 02:06:31,000
Speaker 5: Okay.

2255
02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:32,520
Speaker 8: Last week, a.

2256
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:36,240
Speaker 6: Student at the Southern Illinois University had their visa revoked.

2257
02:06:36,840 --> 02:06:40,240
Speaker 6: The school administration told their college paper that the university

2258
02:06:40,280 --> 02:06:43,839
Speaker 6: has no role in the visa revocation process. The Illinois

2259
02:06:43,880 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 6: Governor's office is working with schools across the state to

2260
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:49,760
Speaker 6: quote ensure they are being vigilant about what's happening on

2261
02:06:49,800 --> 02:06:53,280
Speaker 6: their respective campuses. The Governor's team has asked universities to

2262
02:06:53,320 --> 02:06:57,040
Speaker 6: communicate with international students about the general resources available to

2263
02:06:57,080 --> 02:07:00,240
Speaker 6: them through the institution. In addition, we have suggested that

2264
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:04,400
Speaker 6: they connect impacted students with legal resources that have been

2265
02:07:04,440 --> 02:07:08,160
Speaker 6: in place for several years. According to a statement sent

2266
02:07:08,200 --> 02:07:12,840
Speaker 6: to the university paper, the Daily Egyptian Tina Sickinger, which

2267
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:18,240
Speaker 6: is a very cool name. The school's director of International

2268
02:07:18,280 --> 02:07:21,840
Speaker 6: Student and Scholar Services sent an email to the international

2269
02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:26,040
Speaker 6: student body of Southern Illinois University advising them to carry

2270
02:07:26,040 --> 02:07:29,920
Speaker 6: photocopies of immigration documents with them at all times, as

2271
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:33,480
Speaker 6: well as proof of enrollment and records of US residences.

2272
02:07:34,040 --> 02:07:37,480
Speaker 6: The email recommended that students quote use caution on social

2273
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:42,000
Speaker 6: media and exercise discretion when participating in political demonstrations or

2274
02:07:42,080 --> 02:07:47,440
Speaker 6: protests unquote, warning that though protests should be protected speech, quote,

2275
02:07:47,560 --> 02:07:50,720
Speaker 6: such activities can sometimes be misinterpreted and may carry risks

2276
02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:55,000
Speaker 6: to your immigration status unquote. Unfortunately, I think this is

2277
02:07:55,040 --> 02:07:57,120
Speaker 6: the university trying to look out for these students.

2278
02:07:57,400 --> 02:08:01,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the best you could expect from them, really, And.

2279
02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:04,480
Speaker 6: They are providing like legal resources to these students, but

2280
02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:07,280
Speaker 6: they're essentially saying like you shouldn't post anything or do

2281
02:08:07,320 --> 02:08:10,600
Speaker 6: any protests because then ice might come kidnap you. Yeah,

2282
02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:13,560
Speaker 6: which is just a fucked up situation to be in.

2283
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:16,400
Speaker 6: And like, yeah, they don't have any other ability to

2284
02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:19,760
Speaker 6: like stop this right now. I am curious what Prisker

2285
02:08:19,840 --> 02:08:21,360
Speaker 6: is going to continue to do here.

2286
02:08:21,240 --> 02:08:25,120
Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, I mean, none of what they've said is

2287
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:28,959
Speaker 2: like wrong, It's kind of what you can expect from university.

2288
02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:32,280
Speaker 2: The best you can expect from the university really is like, hey,

2289
02:08:32,720 --> 02:08:33,920
Speaker 2: we've noticed it's happening.

2290
02:08:34,400 --> 02:08:37,640
Speaker 6: So that is the situation as it currently stands. I

2291
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:40,960
Speaker 6: do have one final tidbit here just that highlights the

2292
02:08:41,000 --> 02:08:44,280
Speaker 6: absurdity of this whole situation. On March twenty fourth, a

2293
02:08:44,360 --> 02:08:47,680
Speaker 6: lawsuit on behalf of Israeli Columbia students and relatives of

2294
02:08:47,720 --> 02:08:52,120
Speaker 6: Israeli October seventh victims was filed against Columbia Jewish Voice

2295
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:56,720
Speaker 6: for Peace and Students for Justice in Palestine, Columbia University

2296
02:08:56,720 --> 02:09:02,000
Speaker 6: Apartheid divest and individual Columbia students, including Mahmoud Khalil. The

2297
02:09:02,080 --> 02:09:04,839
Speaker 6: loss of allege is that these Columbia groups and students

2298
02:09:05,120 --> 02:09:09,520
Speaker 6: are the domestic propaganda arm of Hamas, and even claims

2299
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:13,240
Speaker 6: that these groups had advanced notice that the October seventh

2300
02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:15,040
Speaker 6: attack was going to take place.

2301
02:09:15,200 --> 02:09:16,320
Speaker 4: Oh, come on.

2302
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:21,240
Speaker 6: So the plan was kept secret among Hamas's own political

2303
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:25,360
Speaker 6: allies in the region, but they gave an Ivy League

2304
02:09:25,440 --> 02:09:29,200
Speaker 6: university in the New York City.

2305
02:09:28,200 --> 02:09:31,520
Speaker 2: Had tip off. They just let him know what was coming.

2306
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:37,320
Speaker 2: Completely absurd, absolutely like like the IDF completely failed to

2307
02:09:37,840 --> 02:09:40,200
Speaker 2: see this coming, right, But they're not the folks at

2308
02:09:40,240 --> 02:09:42,880
Speaker 2: the Ivy League universities who were who were ready and waiting.

2309
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:46,880
Speaker 6: Hamas didn't tell the who thies, They didn't tell Iran,

2310
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:52,160
Speaker 6: they didn't tell Hesbola, but they told student activist groups

2311
02:09:52,200 --> 02:09:55,800
Speaker 6: in New York City at the Columbia University campus.

2312
02:09:56,360 --> 02:10:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely ludicrous. Like, await this court case. I guess

2313
02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:04,120
Speaker 2: to see what evidence they have of this. The evidence

2314
02:10:04,200 --> 02:10:06,440
Speaker 2: is going to be like someone had a Palestinian flag.

2315
02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:09,040
Speaker 6: Some of the quote unquote evidence that they that they

2316
02:10:09,080 --> 02:10:12,480
Speaker 6: allege is that some of these like activist accounts had

2317
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:16,880
Speaker 6: a renewed activity in October of twenty twenty three, like

2318
02:10:16,960 --> 02:10:21,280
Speaker 6: before the attack happened. But this is just a simple coincidence.

2319
02:10:21,400 --> 02:10:24,920
Speaker 6: Obviously these people did not have a heads up that

2320
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:26,760
Speaker 6: the October seventh attack.

2321
02:10:26,600 --> 02:10:28,680
Speaker 8: Was going to take place. Yeah.

2322
02:10:28,720 --> 02:10:32,720
Speaker 6: The lawsuit also argues that protest activity is not First

2323
02:10:32,760 --> 02:10:36,560
Speaker 6: Amendment protected speech, but in fact, quote substantial assistance in

2324
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:40,680
Speaker 6: the form of propaganda and recruiting services and in coordination

2325
02:10:41,080 --> 02:10:45,040
Speaker 6: with a designated foreign terrorist organization, again alleging there's some

2326
02:10:45,160 --> 02:10:49,520
Speaker 6: kind of communication between hubmas and student activists in New

2327
02:10:49,600 --> 02:10:50,040
Speaker 6: York City.

2328
02:10:50,560 --> 02:10:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is ludicrous. Like one of the reasons maybe

2329
02:10:54,480 --> 02:10:58,240
Speaker 2: we're seeing this so much over the Palestine advocacy is

2330
02:10:58,280 --> 02:11:02,760
Speaker 2: that Hamas is enlisted foreign terrorist organization. Many other groups

2331
02:11:02,920 --> 02:11:04,640
Speaker 2: and lots of groups in that part of the world are,

2332
02:11:05,080 --> 02:11:07,920
Speaker 2: But like it's just a bigger stick to waive I

2333
02:11:07,920 --> 02:11:10,320
Speaker 2: guess material aid or that no one has been actually

2334
02:11:10,320 --> 02:11:12,760
Speaker 2: accused of material aid to foreign terrorist organization as far

2335
02:11:12,760 --> 02:11:15,400
Speaker 2: as I'm aware, but like that is kind of the

2336
02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:18,240
Speaker 2: sort of stick that they're waving, right, that is the

2337
02:11:18,280 --> 02:11:19,280
Speaker 2: thing that they're alleging.

2338
02:11:19,880 --> 02:11:22,800
Speaker 6: I will end us with just this kind of final note. Now,

2339
02:11:23,040 --> 02:11:25,640
Speaker 6: while there are little signs that this would happen at

2340
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:29,360
Speaker 6: a scale this large and disfocused under a democratic president,

2341
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:32,760
Speaker 6: a degree of consent for this type of targeting was

2342
02:11:32,880 --> 02:11:36,720
Speaker 6: manufactured the past year as it relates to Palestine protests,

2343
02:11:36,760 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 6: with some liberals and democratic politicians associating activists as pro

2344
02:11:41,640 --> 02:11:45,880
Speaker 6: Hamas terrorists. And this is the consequence of that public

2345
02:11:45,880 --> 02:11:49,320
Speaker 6: perception building and the consent being manufactured for that framing.

2346
02:11:49,800 --> 02:11:52,800
Speaker 6: And now that the even more evil side is in charge,

2347
02:11:52,960 --> 02:11:55,680
Speaker 6: they can take that justification and run with it way

2348
02:11:55,720 --> 02:11:58,320
Speaker 6: further than what a Joe Biden or a Kamala Harris

2349
02:11:58,360 --> 02:12:01,440
Speaker 6: would have done. So it is far worse, but it's

2350
02:12:01,480 --> 02:12:04,280
Speaker 6: not in a political bubble. This has been like a

2351
02:12:04,320 --> 02:12:06,640
Speaker 6: growing project for the past few years.

2352
02:12:07,160 --> 02:12:10,120
Speaker 2: There was no point at which to buy the administration really,

2353
02:12:10,160 --> 02:12:14,280
Speaker 2: like effusively said, this is protected First Amendment speech. Yeah,

2354
02:12:14,320 --> 02:12:16,560
Speaker 2: we may not like it, but it is central to

2355
02:12:16,600 --> 02:12:18,480
Speaker 2: the Bill of Rights. It's central to what America is

2356
02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:19,400
Speaker 2: supposed to be about.

2357
02:12:19,640 --> 02:12:22,720
Speaker 6: They never defended the constitutionality of this speech. Yeah, nor

2358
02:12:22,800 --> 02:12:27,000
Speaker 6: would they have intervened to stop the deportation of someone

2359
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:31,720
Speaker 6: like Tall if Cornell decided to revoke his status, right right, Yeah,

2360
02:12:31,880 --> 02:12:34,360
Speaker 6: I don't think they buy an administration or a Kamala

2361
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:37,840
Speaker 6: Harris administration would be directed in these these universities to

2362
02:12:37,920 --> 02:12:40,120
Speaker 6: take that action themselves, nor would they be I think

2363
02:12:40,320 --> 02:12:43,880
Speaker 6: revoking student visas at scale like this, No, but they

2364
02:12:43,880 --> 02:12:46,320
Speaker 6: would have let Ice do the stuff that ICE does

2365
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:52,480
Speaker 6: if universities themselves elect to remove student visas or unenroll

2366
02:12:52,600 --> 02:12:55,200
Speaker 6: these students, and like, a degree of the complacency here

2367
02:12:55,320 --> 02:12:59,320
Speaker 6: is placed on the actual university administrations, the university staff

2368
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:03,760
Speaker 6: who have beenfying these protesters for the past two years.

2369
02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean in some cases, right, Like I'm

2370
02:13:07,520 --> 02:13:10,840
Speaker 2: thinking of one of Columbia, Like professors have got away

2371
02:13:10,920 --> 02:13:14,040
Speaker 2: with things which are absolutely unacceptable and like one hundred

2372
02:13:14,160 --> 02:13:18,520
Speaker 2: percent in some violation of your agreement with the university

2373
02:13:18,520 --> 02:13:21,600
Speaker 2: as a member of the faculty, Like doxing your students. Yeah,

2374
02:13:21,720 --> 02:13:27,640
Speaker 2: photographing students without their consent, following students around like absolutely unacceptable,

2375
02:13:28,600 --> 02:13:31,920
Speaker 2: Like in any other context that you would be immediately

2376
02:13:31,960 --> 02:13:34,520
Speaker 2: shitcanned for that. Like really, really, the only reason you

2377
02:13:34,560 --> 02:13:37,520
Speaker 2: can lose tenure seemingly is being a fucking creep to

2378
02:13:37,560 --> 02:13:41,600
Speaker 2: students or stealing a lot of money, And like universities

2379
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:45,640
Speaker 2: did allow that for more than a year under the

2380
02:13:45,680 --> 02:13:48,880
Speaker 2: Biden administration, and like we're seeing the consequences of that now.

2381
02:13:49,320 --> 02:13:52,080
Speaker 6: It's also worth noting that, since I've had to quote

2382
02:13:52,080 --> 02:13:55,640
Speaker 6: from so many government statements this episode, the Trump admin

2383
02:13:55,840 --> 02:14:01,080
Speaker 6: is continuing to correlate any expression of sympathy or solidarity

2384
02:14:01,080 --> 02:14:06,120
Speaker 6: with Palestine as explicit support for Hamas. Basically, anything you

2385
02:14:06,200 --> 02:14:09,320
Speaker 6: say that's critical of the Israeli government its actions in

2386
02:14:09,360 --> 02:14:12,240
Speaker 6: Gaza are being interpreted by the Trump administration as anti

2387
02:14:12,240 --> 02:14:16,280
Speaker 6: semitism and support for the October seventh massacre. This is

2388
02:14:16,280 --> 02:14:19,320
Speaker 6: a false equivalency. What the government alleges should not be

2389
02:14:19,400 --> 02:14:22,560
Speaker 6: automatically taken as the truth. These tactics have been used

2390
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:27,320
Speaker 6: for years to broadly smear pro Palestine activists while also

2391
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:31,800
Speaker 6: hurting anti Zionist Jews. And I guess, like, finally, we

2392
02:14:31,880 --> 02:14:36,560
Speaker 6: are not necessarily endorsing every single thing that every single

2393
02:14:36,560 --> 02:14:39,200
Speaker 6: one of these students has said. We do not necessarily

2394
02:14:39,200 --> 02:14:41,960
Speaker 6: agree with the framing of every single sentence that they

2395
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:42,360
Speaker 6: have said.

2396
02:14:42,480 --> 02:14:44,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we don't know everything that they've said.

2397
02:14:44,920 --> 02:14:47,480
Speaker 8: We can, yeah, exactly. This is like completely separate to that.

2398
02:14:47,960 --> 02:14:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't matter, Like we are defending their right

2399
02:14:51,120 --> 02:14:53,440
Speaker 2: to engage in constitutionally protected speaking.

2400
02:14:53,200 --> 02:14:55,840
Speaker 6: Correct no matter what they're saying, no matter if they

2401
02:14:55,920 --> 02:14:59,400
Speaker 6: have opinions on hamas that differ from ours. No matter

2402
02:14:59,440 --> 02:15:02,280
Speaker 6: what they are saying at a campus protest, it should

2403
02:15:02,280 --> 02:15:05,480
Speaker 6: not result in ICE targeting them and hunting them down

2404
02:15:06,080 --> 02:15:08,600
Speaker 6: and forcing students who attend to sit in protests into

2405
02:15:08,680 --> 02:15:12,560
Speaker 6: hiding to defend their own rights and to keep their

2406
02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:15,960
Speaker 6: green cards. This is like a completely absurd and like

2407
02:15:16,000 --> 02:15:20,920
Speaker 6: blatantly fascist to use the now overused word frankly, but

2408
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:23,440
Speaker 6: this is like, this is this is what that is

2409
02:15:23,600 --> 02:15:25,839
Speaker 6: if this was happening in China, this was happening in Russia,

2410
02:15:26,160 --> 02:15:29,200
Speaker 6: in other countries, people would be very very quick to call.

2411
02:15:29,080 --> 02:15:32,440
Speaker 2: Out I mean, it does happen in Russia, right people exactly,

2412
02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:35,920
Speaker 2: people quick to call it out. Yeah, yeah, And if

2413
02:15:35,960 --> 02:15:38,040
Speaker 2: the State Department of this country has called it out

2414
02:15:38,120 --> 02:15:40,840
Speaker 2: right like it at right Ley, Yes, I don't agree

2415
02:15:40,840 --> 02:15:42,680
Speaker 2: with everything the State Department does, but they do agree

2416
02:15:42,680 --> 02:15:45,280
Speaker 2: with him on that, like yeah, And I think this

2417
02:15:45,400 --> 02:15:47,400
Speaker 2: is like I know, if you find yourself having a

2418
02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:51,760
Speaker 2: discussion about this, I think almost everyone in America can

2419
02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:54,640
Speaker 2: find something that they disagree with the government on or

2420
02:15:54,720 --> 02:15:57,600
Speaker 2: have disagreed with the government on, and like, this hurts

2421
02:15:57,720 --> 02:16:01,880
Speaker 2: every single one of us. Right, everyone's right to freedom

2422
02:16:01,880 --> 02:16:04,000
Speaker 2: of speech is challenged. When someone's right to freedom of

2423
02:16:04,040 --> 02:16:06,680
Speaker 2: speech is challenged, and like, I think that is the

2424
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:11,320
Speaker 2: way to approach this. It doesn't really matter if the

2425
02:16:11,520 --> 02:16:15,320
Speaker 2: people whose speech is being challenged right now, the speech

2426
02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:17,360
Speaker 2: is if it's odious to us, if it's something that

2427
02:16:17,360 --> 02:16:20,560
Speaker 2: we don't agree with, Like, that isn't what's at stake.

2428
02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:24,200
Speaker 2: What's at stake is everyone's right to say everything without

2429
02:16:24,280 --> 02:16:25,400
Speaker 2: government consequences.

2430
02:16:26,080 --> 02:16:28,640
Speaker 6: Well, I think that doesn't for us today at it

2431
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:32,320
Speaker 6: Could Happen Here? We will continue to report on the

2432
02:16:32,400 --> 02:16:36,160
Speaker 6: targeting of students, scholars and professors, and immigrants in general

2433
02:16:36,680 --> 02:16:41,200
Speaker 6: as the Trump administration ramps up its deportation efforts. If

2434
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:44,640
Speaker 6: you would like to contact us about these topics, we

2435
02:16:44,720 --> 02:16:48,920
Speaker 6: have an encrypted email address at cool Zone, tips at

2436
02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:52,440
Speaker 6: proton dot ne. It is end to end encrypted, so

2437
02:16:52,600 --> 02:16:56,560
Speaker 6: if you use another encrypted email service or another proton

2438
02:16:56,640 --> 02:17:00,000
Speaker 6: mail account to send the email only, then is it encrypts?

2439
02:17:00,080 --> 02:17:25,160
Speaker 4: Did this?

2440
02:17:25,400 --> 02:17:26,520
Speaker 8: Is it could happen here?

2441
02:17:26,600 --> 02:17:30,240
Speaker 6: Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

2442
02:17:30,240 --> 02:17:33,880
Speaker 6: White House, the crumbling economic world, and what this means

2443
02:17:33,879 --> 02:17:34,240
Speaker 6: for you.

2444
02:17:34,520 --> 02:17:38,000
Speaker 8: I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Robert Evans, James Stout.

2445
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:41,720
Speaker 6: And Mio Wong. It is a liberation day in America.

2446
02:17:41,800 --> 02:17:43,760
Speaker 8: Everyone. How do you feel?

2447
02:17:43,840 --> 02:17:47,560
Speaker 1: I feel liberated, last, free at last, Thank God Almighty,

2448
02:17:47,720 --> 02:17:50,480
Speaker 1: we are free at last for being able to afford things.

2449
02:17:50,959 --> 02:17:54,320
Speaker 8: I am so so liberated right.

2450
02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:57,240
Speaker 2: Now, unchained from a burden of having money.

2451
02:17:57,320 --> 02:18:01,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, as the Buddhists say, know, freeing yourself

2452
02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:03,360
Speaker 1: from attachment is really the path to nirvana.

2453
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:06,240
Speaker 8: Trump really is our first Buddhist president.

2454
02:18:06,720 --> 02:18:09,080
Speaker 2: Is one thing they say about him.

2455
02:18:09,320 --> 02:18:11,840
Speaker 1: That's right. He may be the new Dalai Lama who

2456
02:18:11,879 --> 02:18:14,320
Speaker 1: can say the Dalai Lama and he hasn't, but.

2457
02:18:14,879 --> 02:18:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and the priests who looked for him after

2458
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:22,640
Speaker 2: he dies. When he comes back. These guys, unfortunately, they're

2459
02:18:22,640 --> 02:18:24,360
Speaker 2: probably on a fucking travel band list.

2460
02:18:24,360 --> 02:18:26,720
Speaker 1: Now, oh my god, there's I mean, pretty good chance

2461
02:18:26,720 --> 02:18:31,440
Speaker 1: they're in ice custody at the moment. If I understand Buddhists.

2462
02:18:33,000 --> 02:18:36,800
Speaker 6: Well, I think we should just get right to the

2463
02:18:36,879 --> 02:18:40,040
Speaker 6: most pressing news, which is line go down.

2464
02:18:40,480 --> 02:18:42,760
Speaker 1: Line, Line is on its way down.

2465
02:18:44,280 --> 02:18:46,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, line in free fold currently.

2466
02:18:47,200 --> 02:18:51,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's funny because they chose they were supposed to initially.

2467
02:18:51,720 --> 02:18:53,360
Speaker 1: I think it was like going to be three pm

2468
02:18:53,480 --> 02:18:56,480
Speaker 1: or something. E St two or three was the initial

2469
02:18:56,520 --> 02:18:59,080
Speaker 1: time they wanted to announce this, which would have given

2470
02:18:59,600 --> 02:19:01,640
Speaker 1: this dock market a couple of.

2471
02:19:01,560 --> 02:19:04,680
Speaker 8: Hours on April second, right, yeah.

2472
02:19:04,520 --> 02:19:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, on April second, it would have given it Liberation Day.

2473
02:19:06,760 --> 02:19:08,720
Speaker 1: On Liberation Day, there would have been a couple hours

2474
02:19:08,840 --> 02:19:13,200
Speaker 1: for it to take effect, and they attempted to mitigate this.

2475
02:19:13,400 --> 02:19:14,920
Speaker 1: I guess in the hope that we would all get

2476
02:19:14,959 --> 02:19:20,360
Speaker 1: over it overnight, we would forget some other ship before

2477
02:19:20,480 --> 02:19:22,840
Speaker 1: the new prices. Even Kevin, we'd be like, ah no,

2478
02:19:22,959 --> 02:19:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm on and the next thing. But the Dow and

2479
02:19:26,080 --> 02:19:28,800
Speaker 1: the NASA is all all plunged because it's clear if

2480
02:19:28,840 --> 02:19:32,480
Speaker 1: the president is like deliberately shifting an event to not

2481
02:19:32,560 --> 02:19:35,199
Speaker 1: hurt the stock market, that's going to hurt the stock market,

2482
02:19:35,520 --> 02:19:35,720
Speaker 1: you know.

2483
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's good. When you see a ninety degree

2484
02:19:38,560 --> 02:19:41,240
Speaker 2: angle on the old stock market graph, that's when you

2485
02:19:41,280 --> 02:19:43,640
Speaker 2: know someone's really crushing it in the economic delug.

2486
02:19:43,640 --> 02:19:47,920
Speaker 1: And so far, we're recording this a little afternoon on Thursday,

2487
02:19:48,000 --> 02:19:51,800
Speaker 1: the April the third, So just in the course of today,

2488
02:19:52,160 --> 02:19:55,240
Speaker 1: major stock indexes have dropped by about five point six percent,

2489
02:19:55,280 --> 02:19:58,400
Speaker 1: which means about two point seven trillion dollars in market value,

2490
02:19:58,800 --> 02:20:01,720
Speaker 1: which will be the just declined since March of twenty

2491
02:20:01,760 --> 02:20:04,440
Speaker 1: twenty sick. So we are it is looking like this

2492
02:20:04,480 --> 02:20:06,440
Speaker 1: is going to be, at the very least a stock

2493
02:20:06,440 --> 02:20:08,680
Speaker 1: market decline in line with the one that came as

2494
02:20:08,680 --> 02:20:13,080
Speaker 1: a result of the global pandemic, with the noted caveat

2495
02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:15,040
Speaker 1: that there's really no reason to believe it will get

2496
02:20:15,040 --> 02:20:16,040
Speaker 1: better at any point.

2497
02:20:16,879 --> 02:20:19,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you can't ready vaccinate against you now, I'm

2498
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:22,480
Speaker 6: not qualified to give financial advice, but I think everyone

2499
02:20:22,480 --> 02:20:24,440
Speaker 6: should pull out your four O one k right now,

2500
02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:28,920
Speaker 6: go to the bank, withdraw all your money, all of your.

2501
02:20:28,879 --> 02:20:31,680
Speaker 1: Rivery bit of it. Put it into the worst tasting

2502
02:20:31,800 --> 02:20:35,199
Speaker 1: survival foods. Yeah, and you're gonna want to buy Kel texts,

2503
02:20:35,400 --> 02:20:39,920
Speaker 1: lots of Kel texts in a caliber no one else has.

2504
02:20:40,440 --> 02:20:42,240
Speaker 2: Five to seven. Yeah, get the one that doesn't take

2505
02:20:42,560 --> 02:20:46,400
Speaker 2: eighty thirty two ACP. I won the thirty two ACP.

2506
02:20:46,480 --> 02:20:46,840
Speaker 8: That's it.

2507
02:20:46,920 --> 02:20:50,160
Speaker 1: That's it, James. Everyone buy thirty two ACP.

2508
02:20:49,840 --> 02:20:52,320
Speaker 2: And guy, yeah, it's exceeded in ending one World war

2509
02:20:52,440 --> 02:20:53,640
Speaker 2: and right done.

2510
02:20:53,680 --> 02:20:55,880
Speaker 1: We call that doing a hitler, but in a good way.

2511
02:20:55,920 --> 02:20:58,680
Speaker 8: Someone here has to be vaguely responsible and say, don't

2512
02:20:58,720 --> 02:21:02,000
Speaker 8: fucking do that. Do none of those things, zero zero

2513
02:21:02,080 --> 02:21:04,920
Speaker 8: of those too. Your accounts, get hard cash.

2514
02:21:05,560 --> 02:21:07,640
Speaker 1: Mark Cuban told people to do that.

2515
02:21:08,280 --> 02:21:09,560
Speaker 8: Absolutely not.

2516
02:21:09,920 --> 02:21:13,440
Speaker 2: Mayor endorses Reagan Coin is the exclusive safe source of

2517
02:21:13,560 --> 02:21:14,760
Speaker 2: the time savings.

2518
02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:17,400
Speaker 1: You're gonna want to put every dime you've got in

2519
02:21:18,080 --> 02:21:21,160
Speaker 1: pressed latinum. Now I know that that's the currency from

2520
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:25,440
Speaker 1: star Trek and does not exist. Nevertheless, cancel your accounts,

2521
02:21:25,640 --> 02:21:26,800
Speaker 1: put it all in latinum.

2522
02:21:26,920 --> 02:21:29,000
Speaker 6: I mean, it's gonna exist. In like what like forty

2523
02:21:29,080 --> 02:21:30,560
Speaker 6: years per time.

2524
02:21:30,720 --> 02:21:33,280
Speaker 2: On the ground, it's not already a meme coin ten

2525
02:21:33,320 --> 02:21:34,720
Speaker 2: minutes off to discuss more.

2526
02:21:34,640 --> 02:21:37,320
Speaker 8: Stable than your four oh one k Right now, you can.

2527
02:21:37,240 --> 02:21:39,560
Speaker 1: Be rich just in time for money to stop being

2528
02:21:39,640 --> 02:21:39,960
Speaker 1: a thing.

2529
02:21:40,240 --> 02:21:41,680
Speaker 8: There you go, there you go.

2530
02:21:41,760 --> 02:21:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is why we're launching cool zone coin.

2531
02:21:44,600 --> 02:21:46,400
Speaker 8: Guys.

2532
02:21:46,640 --> 02:21:50,640
Speaker 1: It's redeemable for whatever money the Ferengi use when they exist.

2533
02:21:51,680 --> 02:21:54,640
Speaker 6: We should probably talk about why the stock market is

2534
02:21:54,680 --> 02:21:57,000
Speaker 6: doing poor Leah, So I think Robert, you can handle

2535
02:21:57,040 --> 02:21:57,600
Speaker 6: this segue.

2536
02:21:58,320 --> 02:22:02,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know, wait, what is that? Oh my god?

2537
02:22:03,080 --> 02:22:12,360
Speaker 9: Is that Mina Wong's theme music by god Lock jas

2538
02:22:12,440 --> 02:22:21,120
Speaker 9: right jas locks right jasp.

2539
02:22:22,760 --> 02:22:26,080
Speaker 1: Oh god, that was a great purchase, you guys. I mean,

2540
02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:28,080
Speaker 1: can we all agree with every penny?

2541
02:22:28,080 --> 02:22:28,280
Speaker 3: Really?

2542
02:22:28,560 --> 02:22:32,400
Speaker 6: Was the best financial purchase we've made is the Tariff

2543
02:22:32,440 --> 02:22:33,120
Speaker 6: Talk theme though.

2544
02:22:33,360 --> 02:22:35,480
Speaker 8: We're gonna get so much mileage out of that thing.

2545
02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:38,200
Speaker 8: It's an unbelievable.

2546
02:22:37,520 --> 02:22:39,480
Speaker 1: You're gonna be using this fucker for years.

2547
02:22:41,320 --> 02:22:44,840
Speaker 2: At least something good came of face. When you're struggling

2548
02:22:44,920 --> 02:22:47,200
Speaker 2: to get by with your family, just remember the song.

2549
02:22:47,240 --> 02:22:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, this will keep you warm as you huddle

2550
02:22:49,240 --> 02:22:52,119
Speaker 1: around a barrel waiting for the UH the new police,

2551
02:22:52,120 --> 02:22:55,440
Speaker 1: which are just called murder police to reach your chanty

2552
02:22:55,560 --> 02:22:58,840
Speaker 1: town anyway.

2553
02:22:59,280 --> 02:23:02,680
Speaker 8: Let us talk heraffs. Power sections of the left have

2554
02:23:02,760 --> 02:23:06,440
Speaker 8: long argued is in logistics. It was logistics that allowed

2555
02:23:06,480 --> 02:23:08,879
Speaker 8: the capitalists of the nineteen seventies and eighties to crush

2556
02:23:08,920 --> 02:23:12,160
Speaker 8: the labor movement by enacting the so called spatial fix

2557
02:23:12,200 --> 02:23:15,800
Speaker 8: to the crisis of capitalism. By shifting production from countries

2558
02:23:15,840 --> 02:23:18,720
Speaker 8: where workers movements were strong to countries where violence against

2559
02:23:18,760 --> 02:23:22,240
Speaker 8: workers was easier and workers were thus poorer and more exploited,

2560
02:23:22,560 --> 02:23:25,119
Speaker 8: CEOs could pit workers against each other in an endless

2561
02:23:25,200 --> 02:23:29,000
Speaker 8: race to the bottom. These practices became known as offshoring.

2562
02:23:29,440 --> 02:23:32,199
Speaker 8: Infused with the international attack on unions and the power

2563
02:23:32,240 --> 02:23:36,039
Speaker 8: of workers heralded in the US by Reagan, together they

2564
02:23:36,040 --> 02:23:39,240
Speaker 8: crushed the workers movement and implemented neoliberal austerity throughout the

2565
02:23:39,240 --> 02:23:43,920
Speaker 8: globe through a regime that is colloquially known as free trade. Now,

2566
02:23:44,000 --> 02:23:47,279
Speaker 8: there was, of course, resistance to this, maybe most famously

2567
02:23:47,320 --> 02:23:50,320
Speaker 8: the uprising of the Zapatistas and Chiapas in nineteen ninety four,

2568
02:23:50,400 --> 02:23:53,520
Speaker 8: on the day the NAFTA went into effect. But for

2569
02:23:53,600 --> 02:23:55,560
Speaker 8: all of the victories and all of the spaces that

2570
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:58,560
Speaker 8: were carved out. It is still the CEOs, the bosses,

2571
02:23:58,600 --> 02:24:01,959
Speaker 8: and the capitalists to rule the world. However, in the

2572
02:24:02,000 --> 02:24:05,560
Speaker 8: wake of their defeat, sections of the working class came

2573
02:24:05,600 --> 02:24:07,800
Speaker 8: to see their own power as a product of the

2574
02:24:07,879 --> 02:24:12,280
Speaker 8: nation of masculinity of American jobs. For American workers, in

2575
02:24:12,320 --> 02:24:15,080
Speaker 8: this view, you didn't need to form a union, you

2576
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:17,120
Speaker 8: didn't need to organize, you didn't need to fight the

2577
02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:19,920
Speaker 8: bosses who exploit you. All you needed to do for

2578
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:22,360
Speaker 8: the high paying blue collar jobs of the nineteen sixties

2579
02:24:22,400 --> 02:24:25,440
Speaker 8: to return was getting rid of the immigrants and bring

2580
02:24:25,520 --> 02:24:30,440
Speaker 8: jobs back home. This American nationalist ideology was extremely useful

2581
02:24:30,440 --> 02:24:32,600
Speaker 8: to the ruling class. It allowed them to turn the

2582
02:24:32,640 --> 02:24:34,959
Speaker 8: rhetoric of the old base of the workers' movement into

2583
02:24:34,959 --> 02:24:37,760
Speaker 8: a fascist movement, which they could then use to smash

2584
02:24:37,800 --> 02:24:40,920
Speaker 8: any genuine worker struggle and then ride to power to

2585
02:24:41,000 --> 02:24:44,800
Speaker 8: impose more brutal austerity and more pro capitalist reforms, too,

2586
02:24:45,080 --> 02:24:47,400
Speaker 8: in their view, make it impossible for their power ever

2587
02:24:47,400 --> 02:24:51,560
Speaker 8: to be challenged again. But a strange thing happened in

2588
02:24:51,600 --> 02:24:54,119
Speaker 8: the nationalism bred by the defeat of the workers movement.

2589
02:24:54,640 --> 02:24:59,000
Speaker 8: The human personifications of the capitalist bubble economy in Donald

2590
02:24:59,040 --> 02:25:01,800
Speaker 8: Trump and Elon Musk have come to see their own

2591
02:25:01,879 --> 02:25:06,560
Speaker 8: victory as defeat. They became convinced that the trade deficits,

2592
02:25:06,800 --> 02:25:09,640
Speaker 8: which from a capitalist perspective simply do not matter as

2593
02:25:09,680 --> 02:25:11,199
Speaker 8: long as companies are making money.

2594
02:25:11,480 --> 02:25:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, they better for shit.

2595
02:25:15,520 --> 02:25:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah here's the fuck.

2596
02:25:17,080 --> 02:25:20,480
Speaker 1: What you are calling a trade deficit is us getting

2597
02:25:20,520 --> 02:25:21,840
Speaker 1: things we want from.

2598
02:25:21,640 --> 02:25:26,080
Speaker 2: People, Like yeah, yeah, it's buying stuff. Like I saw

2599
02:25:26,120 --> 02:25:27,680
Speaker 2: a good post. It was like, you don't have a

2600
02:25:27,720 --> 02:25:29,879
Speaker 2: trade deficit with your dentist. You just pay them to

2601
02:25:29,879 --> 02:25:31,119
Speaker 2: fix your teeth, Like.

2602
02:25:31,560 --> 02:25:34,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was told at one point in

2603
02:25:34,720 --> 02:25:38,320
Speaker 1: this nation's greatest living previous moment of crisis, that what

2604
02:25:38,360 --> 02:25:40,680
Speaker 1: we needed to do was go buy things to make

2605
02:25:40,720 --> 02:25:41,160
Speaker 1: it better.

2606
02:25:43,120 --> 02:25:44,320
Speaker 4: Not anymore, buddy.

2607
02:25:44,400 --> 02:25:47,840
Speaker 8: Nope, because because these people, Donald Trump and Elon Musk

2608
02:25:48,200 --> 02:25:52,280
Speaker 8: and the cadra of weird white nationals fanatic sets around them,

2609
02:25:52,520 --> 02:25:56,080
Speaker 8: have absolutely convinced themselves that if you have a trade deficit,

2610
02:25:56,120 --> 02:25:58,320
Speaker 8: you are being ripped off by foreigners.

2611
02:25:58,400 --> 02:25:59,800
Speaker 1: Yep, yep.

2612
02:26:00,000 --> 02:26:02,680
Speaker 8: And so they concluded that we needed to put tariffs

2613
02:26:02,680 --> 02:26:04,400
Speaker 8: on fucking all of the rest of the world in

2614
02:26:04,440 --> 02:26:09,080
Speaker 8: order to bring American jobs back to Americans. A new

2615
02:26:09,160 --> 02:26:13,360
Speaker 8: national autarchy for a fascist world now the ruling class,

2616
02:26:13,440 --> 02:26:17,560
Speaker 8: all the capitalists, all these fucking goddamn Goldman Sachs motherfuckers,

2617
02:26:17,959 --> 02:26:20,879
Speaker 8: financial analysts, all of these CNBC dipshits, all of these

2618
02:26:20,920 --> 02:26:23,560
Speaker 8: fucking all these motherfuckers at black Rock and all of

2619
02:26:23,600 --> 02:26:26,599
Speaker 8: the global hedge funds and all of these, all these motherfuckers,

2620
02:26:26,600 --> 02:26:28,400
Speaker 8: all of the tech dipshits, all of the people who

2621
02:26:28,440 --> 02:26:30,959
Speaker 8: backed Trump to a hilt, simply assumed that none of

2622
02:26:30,959 --> 02:26:33,320
Speaker 8: these hairs would ever happen, that it was all campaign bluster,

2623
02:26:33,600 --> 02:26:35,840
Speaker 8: that he was lying out of his ass. And you know,

2624
02:26:36,320 --> 02:26:39,160
Speaker 8: Obama again I've said this before, ran an abolishing NAFTA.

2625
02:26:39,280 --> 02:26:40,800
Speaker 8: So there was you know, and well, what the fuck

2626
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:43,800
Speaker 8: ever came from that, right? We of course fucking tried

2627
02:26:43,800 --> 02:26:45,600
Speaker 8: to tell them otherwise. We tried to tell them that

2628
02:26:45,640 --> 02:26:47,840
Speaker 8: they could not fucking control the fascist beasts, that one

2629
02:26:47,920 --> 02:26:50,320
Speaker 8: day it would rise to consume them all along with us.

2630
02:26:51,120 --> 02:26:53,680
Speaker 8: They didn't care. They backed Trump anyways because they thought

2631
02:26:53,680 --> 02:26:57,400
Speaker 8: they would get fucking tax breaks and now liberation days here.

2632
02:26:57,520 --> 02:26:59,760
Speaker 1: Don't forget Krypto. They were really bullshot back.

2633
02:27:00,240 --> 02:27:05,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, all of these motherfuckers, they really thought that Trump

2634
02:27:05,160 --> 02:27:07,720
Speaker 8: was going to fucking literally all Trump was going to

2635
02:27:07,760 --> 02:27:10,080
Speaker 8: do was punish the transgenders, get rid of woke, and

2636
02:27:10,120 --> 02:27:11,000
Speaker 8: give them tax cuts.

2637
02:27:11,280 --> 02:27:12,360
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yep.

2638
02:27:13,080 --> 02:27:14,879
Speaker 8: And now if the terror falls have gone up, the

2639
02:27:14,879 --> 02:27:17,640
Speaker 8: old world is dead, the new world struggles to be born.

2640
02:27:17,959 --> 02:27:19,960
Speaker 8: Now is the time of monsters.

2641
02:27:20,000 --> 02:27:22,200
Speaker 6: Now we're in what I'm what I'm referring to as

2642
02:27:22,240 --> 02:27:24,840
Speaker 6: the Chinese Century. I came up with this this this

2643
02:27:24,920 --> 02:27:25,880
Speaker 6: week on my own.

2644
02:27:25,959 --> 02:27:26,119
Speaker 3: Wow.

2645
02:27:26,280 --> 02:27:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, mm hmm yeah. Good Now.

2646
02:27:29,840 --> 02:27:33,800
Speaker 1: That's that's of course named after Chinatown in San Francisco,

2647
02:27:33,840 --> 02:27:38,039
Speaker 1: which Garrison is very bullish about positive, positive real estate

2648
02:27:38,040 --> 02:27:41,280
Speaker 1: developments there. Uh, you're big into real estate. People don't

2649
02:27:41,280 --> 02:27:41,520
Speaker 1: know that.

2650
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:44,960
Speaker 8: Chinese real estate absolutely where you want to be right now,

2651
02:27:45,000 --> 02:27:48,880
Speaker 8: both both in Chinatown and in actual China. You put

2652
02:27:48,920 --> 02:27:51,200
Speaker 8: all your money in the Chinese real estate. The bubble

2653
02:27:51,240 --> 02:27:53,560
Speaker 8: can't pop a second time, can only go back up.

2654
02:27:54,520 --> 02:27:56,480
Speaker 1: It does. There were so many like enemies on the

2655
02:27:56,600 --> 02:28:00,360
Speaker 1: verge of defeat in like the traditional US geopolitical sense,

2656
02:28:00,400 --> 02:28:03,880
Speaker 1: like China'scconoio was doing great. Russia could have been easily

2657
02:28:04,120 --> 02:28:06,400
Speaker 1: pushed to collapse, and we were just like Noah, no, no,

2658
02:28:06,520 --> 02:28:09,360
Speaker 1: you know what's better. We're gonna shoot ourselves right in the.

2659
02:28:09,360 --> 02:28:11,959
Speaker 2: Deck, which we've snatched defeat from.

2660
02:28:11,800 --> 02:28:14,840
Speaker 1: The ourselves in a dick with a bullet that venmos,

2661
02:28:14,920 --> 02:28:16,080
Speaker 1: both of you guys.

2662
02:28:18,600 --> 02:28:20,640
Speaker 2: It's great. We dug up the Cold War, resurrected it

2663
02:28:20,680 --> 02:28:21,240
Speaker 2: and then lost.

2664
02:28:21,360 --> 02:28:22,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, just to lose.

2665
02:28:24,320 --> 02:28:25,000
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.

2666
02:28:25,000 --> 02:28:26,840
Speaker 1: You can't. Yeah, it's so it's sort of like Michael

2667
02:28:26,920 --> 02:28:30,240
Speaker 1: Jackson coming back for Space Jam if he had immediately

2668
02:28:30,879 --> 02:28:33,879
Speaker 1: like fucking thrown a basketball so hard at a bugs

2669
02:28:33,879 --> 02:28:35,520
Speaker 1: bunny skull that it put him at traction.

2670
02:28:36,160 --> 02:28:38,160
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, did you just say Michael Jackson.

2671
02:28:38,360 --> 02:28:41,560
Speaker 1: Jordan didn't, Okay, Jordan, we just said Jacks Well, definitely,

2672
02:28:42,520 --> 02:28:46,279
Speaker 1: you know, leave it in different, different movie, maybe better.

2673
02:28:46,520 --> 02:28:49,600
Speaker 1: You know, he always he always performed well around kids.

2674
02:28:49,600 --> 02:28:52,640
Speaker 2: So it's good.

2675
02:28:52,720 --> 02:28:54,240
Speaker 8: God, yeah, I love Space Jam.

2676
02:28:54,400 --> 02:28:55,080
Speaker 1: It's a good movie.

2677
02:28:55,480 --> 02:28:55,920
Speaker 4: Anymore.

2678
02:28:55,959 --> 02:28:57,240
Speaker 2: Garret said, it's forevitainted.

2679
02:28:57,320 --> 02:29:00,400
Speaker 1: Now, so let's let's talk about the nature of like

2680
02:29:00,520 --> 02:29:02,199
Speaker 1: what's actually going down with these terrts.

2681
02:29:02,280 --> 02:29:03,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, let's get to the tariffs.

2682
02:29:03,720 --> 02:29:06,880
Speaker 1: Terrible, terrifable, terrifable, that's right, garrisons.

2683
02:29:06,959 --> 02:29:08,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, so okay, so let let me let me let

2684
02:29:08,680 --> 02:29:10,280
Speaker 8: me just let me just read off some of the

2685
02:29:10,320 --> 02:29:13,680
Speaker 8: ones that are going to fuck everyone. Great, fifty four

2686
02:29:13,720 --> 02:29:17,240
Speaker 8: percent tariff on all goods from China. This is a

2687
02:29:17,240 --> 02:29:19,000
Speaker 8: thirty four percent tariff that is being added on to

2688
02:29:19,000 --> 02:29:21,280
Speaker 8: the twenty percent tariff that was already on. There is

2689
02:29:21,280 --> 02:29:23,360
Speaker 8: a twenty percent tariff on all goods from the EU,

2690
02:29:23,800 --> 02:29:28,000
Speaker 8: forty six percent on Vietnam, which is fucking devastating because

2691
02:29:28,000 --> 02:29:29,800
Speaker 8: there's a huge amount of capital from China.

2692
02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:34,560
Speaker 1: Also, speaking of the China Panic, our strongest geopolitical ally

2693
02:29:35,080 --> 02:29:39,440
Speaker 1: in the region, like in terms of having a military right.

2694
02:29:39,800 --> 02:29:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that we've been discussing going to warfall.

2695
02:29:42,560 --> 02:29:46,360
Speaker 8: Quite really Yeah, like we we just we we have

2696
02:29:46,480 --> 02:29:48,440
Speaker 8: literally and this is this is the funny thing about

2697
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:50,560
Speaker 8: all of these. Vicky Osto will pointed this out. The

2698
02:29:50,560 --> 02:29:53,160
Speaker 8: more closely allied with the US, the more fucked you

2699
02:29:53,200 --> 02:29:53,800
Speaker 8: got by these.

2700
02:29:54,280 --> 02:29:55,840
Speaker 1: It's such a weird move.

2701
02:29:56,080 --> 02:29:59,039
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, twenty four percent tariff on Japan.

2702
02:29:58,840 --> 02:30:01,119
Speaker 1: What is it like eighty or ninety percent on fucking

2703
02:30:01,160 --> 02:30:02,720
Speaker 1: Cambodia why.

2704
02:30:03,000 --> 02:30:06,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So we'll we'll get to why

2705
02:30:06,480 --> 02:30:08,720
Speaker 8: in a second. I want to also cover so there's

2706
02:30:08,760 --> 02:30:11,640
Speaker 8: there's a thirty seven percent tariff on Bangladesh, which is

2707
02:30:11,680 --> 02:30:14,080
Speaker 8: going to be devastating. I mean a lot of textile

2708
02:30:14,120 --> 02:30:17,560
Speaker 8: imports twenty five percent on South Korea. So fucking rip

2709
02:30:17,640 --> 02:30:22,120
Speaker 8: you ever getting a phone again? On Taiwan. So rip

2710
02:30:22,160 --> 02:30:25,080
Speaker 8: the entire tech industry. Uh? I fucking rip Taiwan too.

2711
02:30:25,959 --> 02:30:26,080
Speaker 5: Uh.

2712
02:30:26,280 --> 02:30:29,640
Speaker 8: These tariffs are going to devastate the international economy. Okay,

2713
02:30:29,680 --> 02:30:32,400
Speaker 8: I have been angry about this since the fucking election.

2714
02:30:32,840 --> 02:30:36,520
Speaker 8: People have been calling these tariffs attacks. That is just no,

2715
02:30:37,440 --> 02:30:39,199
Speaker 8: it is not what's happening here. This is like calling

2716
02:30:39,280 --> 02:30:44,440
Speaker 8: it a tax is to completely underplay how serious this is.

2717
02:30:44,480 --> 02:30:46,840
Speaker 8: This is not a fucking tax. This is the wholesale

2718
02:30:46,879 --> 02:30:49,879
Speaker 8: destruction of entire industries. And some of these industries like

2719
02:30:49,879 --> 02:30:52,120
Speaker 8: fast fashion, which you know has always been undergirded by

2720
02:30:52,120 --> 02:30:54,480
Speaker 8: the exploitation of workers from China to Bangladesh and also

2721
02:30:54,520 --> 02:30:57,040
Speaker 8: like in the US two but like you know, fuck

2722
02:30:57,120 --> 02:30:59,640
Speaker 8: those things whatever, they never needed to exist. Fuck them.

2723
02:30:59,680 --> 02:31:01,240
Speaker 8: But like you know, like you're probably not gonna be

2724
02:31:01,240 --> 02:31:03,240
Speaker 8: able to fucking buy board games anymore because they're going

2725
02:31:03,320 --> 02:31:04,360
Speaker 8: to be too expensive to produce.

2726
02:31:04,560 --> 02:31:07,440
Speaker 1: Oh, it's gonna shatter games like tabletop gaming.

2727
02:31:07,600 --> 02:31:10,240
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, yeah, it's done. Like the economy as we

2728
02:31:10,320 --> 02:31:14,120
Speaker 8: knew it does not exist as of like this morning, right,

2729
02:31:14,360 --> 02:31:16,280
Speaker 8: everything that we've known about how this thing works is

2730
02:31:16,280 --> 02:31:18,680
Speaker 8: fucking done. And some of these are just, you know,

2731
02:31:18,800 --> 02:31:23,200
Speaker 8: like unbelievably hideously cruel. So, for example, a forty four

2732
02:31:23,240 --> 02:31:25,920
Speaker 8: percent terriff on me and Mark, Yeah, which you know

2733
02:31:26,120 --> 02:31:28,560
Speaker 8: is a country, Yeah, devastated by a horrific war wage

2734
02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:31,120
Speaker 8: for a brutal dictatorship and also fucking suffering from a

2735
02:31:31,120 --> 02:31:33,800
Speaker 8: catastrophic earthquake, and we're like, fuck you eat shit.

2736
02:31:33,879 --> 02:31:35,879
Speaker 4: Forty four percent tariff also embargoed.

2737
02:31:35,879 --> 02:31:40,440
Speaker 2: No, like we've seized their government assets in the United States, Like, yep,

2738
02:31:40,640 --> 02:31:43,880
Speaker 2: it's one of like Diego Garcia for instance.

2739
02:31:44,000 --> 02:31:47,439
Speaker 1: Yes, there's well it's on the British Indian Ocean Territory,

2740
02:31:47,480 --> 02:31:50,560
Speaker 1: which collective population is primarily US soldiers.

2741
02:31:50,879 --> 02:31:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Christmas Island is on there, like yeah, you know.

2742
02:31:54,600 --> 02:31:56,400
Speaker 8: And there's one more that I want to talk about,

2743
02:31:56,400 --> 02:31:58,720
Speaker 8: which is that so Sri Lanka has been suffering from

2744
02:31:58,760 --> 02:32:01,880
Speaker 8: an unbelievably devastating series of economic crises and they're getting

2745
02:32:01,920 --> 02:32:04,760
Speaker 8: hit with forty four percent fucking tariff in a moment

2746
02:32:04,800 --> 02:32:07,880
Speaker 8: when like they already haven't had enough dollars to fucking

2747
02:32:07,959 --> 02:32:11,400
Speaker 8: import fuel for their economy to function. So this is

2748
02:32:11,440 --> 02:32:14,520
Speaker 8: going to be devastating not just for us, but for

2749
02:32:14,720 --> 02:32:17,680
Speaker 8: a whole bunch of people across the world. So this

2750
02:32:18,000 --> 02:32:20,400
Speaker 8: is the other aspect of this too, that's really fucking brtle,

2751
02:32:20,520 --> 02:32:24,879
Speaker 8: is that for the US, right, we don't need other countries' money,

2752
02:32:25,280 --> 02:32:27,840
Speaker 8: We don't need to have piles of any other country's

2753
02:32:27,840 --> 02:32:30,600
Speaker 8: money around, Right, we can just buy things in American dollars.

2754
02:32:31,360 --> 02:32:34,480
Speaker 8: But if you are Sri Lanka, you need American dollars

2755
02:32:34,520 --> 02:32:35,160
Speaker 8: to buy oil.

2756
02:32:35,280 --> 02:32:36,160
Speaker 1: Yes, there are.

2757
02:32:36,040 --> 02:32:37,880
Speaker 8: So many fucking things that you could only buy in

2758
02:32:37,959 --> 02:32:40,560
Speaker 8: American dollars. And when these tariffs go up, when the

2759
02:32:40,600 --> 02:32:42,960
Speaker 8: prices increase, and when they can't fucking sell their stuff,

2760
02:32:43,280 --> 02:32:45,000
Speaker 8: that means that they don't have dollars, and that means

2761
02:32:45,040 --> 02:32:48,000
Speaker 8: that they can't get access to a whole bunch of

2762
02:32:48,040 --> 02:32:50,080
Speaker 8: the vital commodities that they need to survive. And this

2763
02:32:50,200 --> 02:32:52,760
Speaker 8: is just going to fucking devastate them. And I think

2764
02:32:52,879 --> 02:32:55,160
Speaker 8: that's been an angle that I really wanted to make

2765
02:32:55,160 --> 02:32:57,760
Speaker 8: sure we talked about, because it's been I haven't seen

2766
02:32:57,800 --> 02:32:59,680
Speaker 8: any fucking mention of it at all, even though those

2767
02:32:59,680 --> 02:33:01,120
Speaker 8: are the are going to suffer the most of this

2768
02:33:01,160 --> 02:33:03,840
Speaker 8: are people who are already completely on the fucking edge,

2769
02:33:03,840 --> 02:33:06,879
Speaker 8: whose economies have already been collapsed. You've already been so

2770
02:33:06,920 --> 02:33:11,880
Speaker 8: brutally exploited by these same fucking people, and they're just fucked.

2771
02:33:12,640 --> 02:33:17,039
Speaker 1: Yep. You know, we always say we know like tarifs,

2772
02:33:17,240 --> 02:33:26,960
Speaker 1: but we do like these ads.

2773
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:32,119
Speaker 5: We're back.

2774
02:33:32,480 --> 02:33:33,640
Speaker 1: I don't feel great about that.

2775
02:33:33,720 --> 02:33:37,640
Speaker 8: But now there is a funny part of all of this.

2776
02:33:38,280 --> 02:33:40,720
Speaker 8: There is some fun here good, which is okay. So

2777
02:33:41,200 --> 02:33:44,240
Speaker 8: what if the big questions about the tariffs was how

2778
02:33:44,240 --> 02:33:46,400
Speaker 8: were they going to calculate the tariffs on all of

2779
02:33:46,440 --> 02:33:49,160
Speaker 8: these countries? Right because they were saying that that their

2780
02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:51,320
Speaker 8: terrorifts were going to be a projection of like currency

2781
02:33:51,320 --> 02:33:54,680
Speaker 8: manipulation and like value added taxes and like all of

2782
02:33:54,680 --> 02:33:57,640
Speaker 8: these like like subsidies to vital industries and you know,

2783
02:33:57,680 --> 02:33:59,640
Speaker 8: and the question again was like literally, how can they

2784
02:33:59,640 --> 02:34:02,240
Speaker 8: poss cocky at the tariff rates of hundreds of different

2785
02:34:02,280 --> 02:34:04,800
Speaker 8: countries and taking into account all these things right now

2786
02:34:05,600 --> 02:34:07,600
Speaker 8: have been making a couple of weeks ago, was that

2787
02:34:07,640 --> 02:34:10,520
Speaker 8: they were going to do brackets. What they actually appear

2788
02:34:10,600 --> 02:34:14,480
Speaker 8: to have done is ass chat GPT.

2789
02:34:16,720 --> 02:34:19,720
Speaker 1: It's entirely people have like reverse engineered the prompts. It's

2790
02:34:19,760 --> 02:34:23,200
Speaker 1: almost directly just the schatchy probably shit, there's a couple

2791
02:34:23,800 --> 02:34:26,840
Speaker 1: different engines that gave almost identical responses. But it's probably just.

2792
02:34:26,879 --> 02:34:29,240
Speaker 2: Amazing that they're doing the same shit as like my

2793
02:34:29,360 --> 02:34:31,520
Speaker 2: undergraduates and the people are doing the same shit.

2794
02:34:31,840 --> 02:34:34,440
Speaker 1: Sure you're undergraduates. Spends a little more time trying to

2795
02:34:34,480 --> 02:34:35,199
Speaker 1: hide it, James.

2796
02:34:35,040 --> 02:34:37,320
Speaker 2: Most of them a smart enough to to like had

2797
02:34:37,360 --> 02:34:39,200
Speaker 2: it a little bit so that you can't put prompt

2798
02:34:39,200 --> 02:34:42,080
Speaker 2: into chat GPT and find it. Yeah, so that my

2799
02:34:42,120 --> 02:34:43,360
Speaker 2: lowest effa undergrads.

2800
02:34:44,040 --> 02:34:45,240
Speaker 8: I want to give a lot of credit to the

2801
02:34:45,240 --> 02:34:47,880
Speaker 8: economist James Sarah reci who's the guy who figured out

2802
02:34:48,080 --> 02:34:52,000
Speaker 8: their formula. So their formula, and this is drawing for something,

2803
02:34:52,160 --> 02:34:56,520
Speaker 8: I mean I saw it from from James first. But like,

2804
02:34:56,760 --> 02:34:59,400
Speaker 8: so their formula is literally just you take a country's

2805
02:34:59,400 --> 02:35:01,920
Speaker 8: trade depisity with the US. And it's also important to

2806
02:35:01,920 --> 02:35:06,640
Speaker 8: note here that they're not counting services. They're only counting goods, right.

2807
02:35:06,600 --> 02:35:09,840
Speaker 1: And again, if you're if you're missing the products and

2808
02:35:09,959 --> 02:35:12,280
Speaker 1: just getting in services, that's half the economy as I

2809
02:35:12,360 --> 02:35:12,920
Speaker 1: understand it.

2810
02:35:13,040 --> 02:35:18,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, especially provides an enormous number of services. You know,

2811
02:35:18,200 --> 02:35:20,200
Speaker 8: But these people are fucking fascists, and so they don't

2812
02:35:20,200 --> 02:35:22,800
Speaker 8: they don't think that like services are fucking real, right,

2813
02:35:22,840 --> 02:35:25,000
Speaker 8: It's it's the same ideology that undergirds the whole thing

2814
02:35:25,040 --> 02:35:27,680
Speaker 8: about like service workers not being fucking real works.

2815
02:35:27,720 --> 02:35:30,360
Speaker 1: Literally, the only real job is that one video of

2816
02:35:30,400 --> 02:35:32,119
Speaker 1: a guy wrestling with an oil Derek.

2817
02:35:32,280 --> 02:35:33,000
Speaker 8: Yes, that is the.

2818
02:35:32,959 --> 02:35:37,240
Speaker 2: Only that is the manager just doing that for the

2819
02:35:37,320 --> 02:35:38,760
Speaker 2: video and was doing it very wrong.

2820
02:35:38,800 --> 02:35:39,240
Speaker 1: You've got to.

2821
02:35:41,560 --> 02:35:44,480
Speaker 6: Take some pieces of metal, move them around to where

2822
02:35:44,480 --> 02:35:45,320
Speaker 6: they're not supposed to go.

2823
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:49,640
Speaker 8: That's that's when you're a real labor, labor that's working.

2824
02:35:49,959 --> 02:35:52,640
Speaker 2: Only jobs are things where you wear safety toe boots and.

2825
02:35:52,640 --> 02:35:54,480
Speaker 8: Well and and and that's and that's the thing they'll

2826
02:35:54,520 --> 02:35:57,200
Speaker 8: learn because like their image of the world is is

2827
02:35:57,240 --> 02:35:59,400
Speaker 8: the fascist image of the world, and the fascist image

2828
02:35:59,400 --> 02:36:02,840
Speaker 8: of the world, like labor is just masculinity. Yeah, and

2829
02:36:02,920 --> 02:36:04,680
Speaker 8: that's like that's why they're fucking doing it like this,

2830
02:36:04,840 --> 02:36:07,240
Speaker 8: and so you know, and so so the fascists have

2831
02:36:07,320 --> 02:36:11,120
Speaker 8: asked chat GPT how to do tariffs, and what they

2832
02:36:11,200 --> 02:36:13,039
Speaker 8: got is again, so do they take the country's trade

2833
02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:16,640
Speaker 8: deficit and divide it by their total exports in the US? Now,

2834
02:36:16,800 --> 02:36:19,680
Speaker 8: this is nothing, right, like in economic terms.

2835
02:36:19,480 --> 02:36:20,760
Speaker 1: No, that's not how you do anything.

2836
02:36:20,840 --> 02:36:22,320
Speaker 8: This is this is not a real thing like this

2837
02:36:22,360 --> 02:36:24,840
Speaker 8: is this is like trying to measure someone's height by

2838
02:36:24,959 --> 02:36:27,480
Speaker 8: like dividing their favorite number by the average radius of

2839
02:36:27,480 --> 02:36:30,160
Speaker 8: an apple. Like it's literally at.

2840
02:36:30,120 --> 02:36:32,280
Speaker 1: You know, what are we what are you coming after me?

2841
02:36:32,320 --> 02:36:32,480
Speaker 2: Here?

2842
02:36:33,959 --> 02:36:34,160
Speaker 8: Look?

2843
02:36:34,240 --> 02:36:37,199
Speaker 1: Just because I'm imagining so differently, Okay.

2844
02:36:37,200 --> 02:36:40,359
Speaker 8: There is no scientific basis, Robert for for for measuring

2845
02:36:40,440 --> 02:36:43,279
Speaker 8: height by dividing favorite number by apple radius. We simply

2846
02:36:43,360 --> 02:36:44,720
Speaker 8: must accept the truth of science.

2847
02:36:44,840 --> 02:36:47,280
Speaker 1: That's what you say, Joe Rogan, and I feel it differently.

2848
02:36:48,720 --> 02:36:52,640
Speaker 6: The dictatorship of chat GPT is just it's so bleak.

2849
02:36:52,879 --> 02:36:55,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, it's just they they ask chat GPT.

2850
02:36:56,160 --> 02:36:58,280
Speaker 1: It's a mix of they don't actually care or think

2851
02:36:58,320 --> 02:37:01,400
Speaker 1: this will affect them, and also they legitimately think it's

2852
02:37:01,440 --> 02:37:04,760
Speaker 1: the smartest person in the world. Yeah yeah, it's smarter

2853
02:37:04,879 --> 02:37:09,120
Speaker 1: than them. Yeah, which is maybe a good thing, but

2854
02:37:09,200 --> 02:37:10,080
Speaker 1: not in this instant.

2855
02:37:11,200 --> 02:37:13,720
Speaker 8: Well, and you can tell the extent to which they

2856
02:37:13,720 --> 02:37:15,920
Speaker 8: were relying on this and didn't calculate themselves, because so

2857
02:37:16,120 --> 02:37:18,720
Speaker 8: after it started to spread that this is just how

2858
02:37:18,760 --> 02:37:21,320
Speaker 8: they were doing it, After James Turoreki like calculated it,

2859
02:37:21,640 --> 02:37:23,680
Speaker 8: the White House said no, no, no, no, no, hold on, no, no, no,

2860
02:37:23,920 --> 02:37:26,920
Speaker 8: that's not right. We use an actual complex formula, and

2861
02:37:27,000 --> 02:37:29,720
Speaker 8: so they released a fake formula. But I think about

2862
02:37:29,720 --> 02:37:32,680
Speaker 8: the formula, right, is it? The formula is just It

2863
02:37:32,760 --> 02:37:36,039
Speaker 8: is literally just trade deficit divided by total exports. But

2864
02:37:36,040 --> 02:37:39,400
Speaker 8: they threw in two random variables as Greek letters. But

2865
02:37:39,480 --> 02:37:40,800
Speaker 8: there's one on the top, and there's one of the

2866
02:37:40,840 --> 02:37:42,959
Speaker 8: numerator one of these denominator, and they're the same, so

2867
02:37:43,000 --> 02:37:43,840
Speaker 8: they can sell each other out.

2868
02:37:44,040 --> 02:37:44,720
Speaker 1: That sounds right to me.

2869
02:37:45,200 --> 02:37:47,320
Speaker 6: That's how you know they're smart. It's because they're using

2870
02:37:47,480 --> 02:37:48,480
Speaker 6: Greek letters.

2871
02:37:49,360 --> 02:37:49,600
Speaker 5: Yep.

2872
02:37:51,120 --> 02:37:53,800
Speaker 2: Which Greek letters did they use? And which person's fraternity

2873
02:37:53,879 --> 02:37:54,640
Speaker 2: does it represent?

2874
02:37:54,879 --> 02:37:57,879
Speaker 1: I don't even speak Greek letters, so they are They

2875
02:37:57,959 --> 02:37:59,959
Speaker 1: must be smarter than me, you know what. I rescind

2876
02:38:00,120 --> 02:38:00,800
Speaker 1: my complaints.

2877
02:38:02,000 --> 02:38:04,880
Speaker 8: This This is how the economy dies, not through tragedy

2878
02:38:04,920 --> 02:38:05,560
Speaker 8: but through farce.

2879
02:38:06,120 --> 02:38:08,320
Speaker 1: It's both.

2880
02:38:08,400 --> 02:38:10,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, tragic fuss, I think is what Marx cold it.

2881
02:38:10,959 --> 02:38:13,440
Speaker 1: A lot of people are gonna die, you know, And

2882
02:38:13,480 --> 02:38:14,039
Speaker 1: I mean, like, like.

2883
02:38:14,000 --> 02:38:16,200
Speaker 8: My actual serious line on this is that this is

2884
02:38:16,280 --> 02:38:18,560
Speaker 8: the great double bind of capitalism, is that we are

2885
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:22,160
Speaker 8: all reliant simultaneously, We are reliant for our survival on

2886
02:38:22,160 --> 02:38:24,160
Speaker 8: the same economy that will make us all homeless, right

2887
02:38:24,280 --> 02:38:26,720
Speaker 8: is the same economy that we need to fucking eat

2888
02:38:26,800 --> 02:38:29,760
Speaker 8: every single day, that even in good times, this economy

2889
02:38:29,760 --> 02:38:31,560
Speaker 8: fucking strips from us the value of the labor we

2890
02:38:31,600 --> 02:38:33,840
Speaker 8: produce and hands us back a bunch of fucking scraps

2891
02:38:33,840 --> 02:38:37,000
Speaker 8: that pay for not enough of anything that we need.

2892
02:38:37,920 --> 02:38:40,920
Speaker 8: So even as our enemies, you know, terror part the

2893
02:38:40,959 --> 02:38:43,320
Speaker 8: system that exploits us, we are the fucking ones who's

2894
02:38:43,360 --> 02:38:47,080
Speaker 8: going to suffer. Deoliberalism finally has in Trump produced its

2895
02:38:47,080 --> 02:38:49,360
Speaker 8: own grave digger, And our fucking job and the job

2896
02:38:49,400 --> 02:38:51,240
Speaker 8: of every single one of us and every single person

2897
02:38:51,280 --> 02:38:53,760
Speaker 8: listening to this show is to make sure that we

2898
02:38:53,879 --> 02:38:56,520
Speaker 8: also aren't the ones thrown into this fucking grave. And

2899
02:38:56,600 --> 02:38:59,640
Speaker 8: this is going to require a kind of organizing that

2900
02:38:59,800 --> 02:39:02,080
Speaker 8: is in some ways like but in some ways unlike

2901
02:39:02,120 --> 02:39:05,160
Speaker 8: anything we've done before. We're about to experience a level

2902
02:39:05,320 --> 02:39:09,800
Speaker 8: of unbelievable economic chaos that we sort of saw dream

2903
02:39:09,840 --> 02:39:12,240
Speaker 8: twenty twenty. But during twenty twenty there was, you know,

2904
02:39:12,320 --> 02:39:16,000
Speaker 8: as bad as everything got, the state stepped in and

2905
02:39:16,040 --> 02:39:18,560
Speaker 8: decided to do welfare reforms, right like, they gave people

2906
02:39:18,600 --> 02:39:20,680
Speaker 8: a bunch of fucking money. Yeah, and it wasn't enough,

2907
02:39:21,000 --> 02:39:23,720
Speaker 8: but they did it now, none of that shit. He

2908
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:25,119
Speaker 8: are the only people who are going to be able

2909
02:39:25,120 --> 02:39:28,039
Speaker 8: to keep each other alive. And that's what we have

2910
02:39:28,080 --> 02:39:29,200
Speaker 8: to be doing right now, is we have to be

2911
02:39:29,280 --> 02:39:32,240
Speaker 8: keeping each other alive until we are organized enough and

2912
02:39:32,240 --> 02:39:34,200
Speaker 8: we are powerful enough to fucking run these people out

2913
02:39:34,240 --> 02:39:36,120
Speaker 8: so they can't ever fuck us again like this, So.

2914
02:39:36,240 --> 02:39:41,080
Speaker 6: We can resurrect neoliberal globalism, we can restore free trade, that's.

2915
02:39:41,040 --> 02:39:43,800
Speaker 2: Right, that's right, and bring it back to the Clinton era.

2916
02:39:44,200 --> 02:39:44,920
Speaker 5: Oh god.

2917
02:39:45,480 --> 02:39:47,000
Speaker 8: One last thing we should mention is that like this

2918
02:39:47,040 --> 02:39:51,080
Speaker 8: has already united the entire world against us effectively, people

2919
02:39:51,240 --> 02:39:53,800
Speaker 8: countries who have never worked together before in their entire

2920
02:39:53,840 --> 02:39:55,400
Speaker 8: existence are working together.

2921
02:39:55,520 --> 02:40:00,480
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, Poles also show Americans can distrust or tendency

2922
02:40:00,520 --> 02:40:04,560
Speaker 1: to view like Canadians and the EU as enemies is rising,

2923
02:40:04,600 --> 02:40:07,920
Speaker 1: both for Republicans and Democrats. Yeah, so that's great.

2924
02:40:07,800 --> 02:40:10,000
Speaker 2: That's great, cool, cool, cool, cool cul cuck cool.

2925
02:40:10,640 --> 02:40:12,720
Speaker 8: Yeah. And also, you know, and like the thing, the thing,

2926
02:40:12,800 --> 02:40:14,280
Speaker 8: the other thing that we have to do here, and

2927
02:40:14,280 --> 02:40:16,680
Speaker 8: this is this is literally our responsibility on this podcast

2928
02:40:16,720 --> 02:40:19,240
Speaker 8: and also responsibility of like fucking everyone who is having

2929
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:22,760
Speaker 8: conversations with another person, is that this is entirely Trump's fault.

2930
02:40:23,080 --> 02:40:25,720
Speaker 8: He fucking did this, Like, oh yeah, this is not

2931
02:40:25,959 --> 02:40:28,840
Speaker 8: fucking the EU or whatever the fuck whoever's during retalitary show.

2932
02:40:28,920 --> 02:40:31,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is no one else ever wanted this.

2933
02:40:32,320 --> 02:40:35,320
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, no, like the people who put Trump in

2934
02:40:35,440 --> 02:40:40,880
Speaker 8: power didn't want this. This is just him and so yeah,

2935
02:40:41,000 --> 02:40:44,560
Speaker 8: the the the actual solution to this is all of

2936
02:40:44,640 --> 02:40:47,640
Speaker 8: us running this fucker out and not us getting drawn

2937
02:40:47,680 --> 02:40:51,760
Speaker 8: into his fucking bullshit wars with Canada or Greenland or

2938
02:40:51,760 --> 02:40:54,440
Speaker 8: whatever the fuck country he decides to invade in the

2939
02:40:54,480 --> 02:41:00,680
Speaker 8: next year. Is that all for tariff talk? Yeah, that's

2940
02:41:00,680 --> 02:41:01,560
Speaker 8: all we got on the terrace.

2941
02:41:01,680 --> 02:41:03,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say. I mean, I

2942
02:41:03,400 --> 02:41:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at the numbers right now where the

2943
02:41:06,840 --> 02:41:10,120
Speaker 1: Dow Industrial is down a fifteen hundred points since the

2944
02:41:10,120 --> 02:41:13,600
Speaker 1: start of the day, So it's things are looking very

2945
02:41:13,640 --> 02:41:17,119
Speaker 1: good all of the lines. Like if you look at

2946
02:41:17,160 --> 02:41:19,959
Speaker 1: the way in which the line went down, there's like

2947
02:41:21,240 --> 02:41:24,640
Speaker 1: it's just this direct vertical drop on the third Yep,

2948
02:41:25,240 --> 02:41:26,359
Speaker 1: it's shocking.

2949
02:41:26,680 --> 02:41:28,199
Speaker 2: No, it is a ninety degree angle.

2950
02:41:28,480 --> 02:41:31,880
Speaker 8: It is legitimately, if you set the Google stock viewer

2951
02:41:31,920 --> 02:41:34,440
Speaker 8: thing to a one day view, the drop is so

2952
02:41:34,560 --> 02:41:36,560
Speaker 8: shocking that it looks like it just started down.

2953
02:41:36,720 --> 02:41:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it prompts you to turn your phone into other direction.

2954
02:41:40,280 --> 02:41:42,120
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it, but I guess no

2955
02:41:42,160 --> 02:41:42,800
Speaker 1: one has.

2956
02:41:43,080 --> 02:41:45,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean some of us. I guess people

2957
02:41:45,760 --> 02:41:49,560
Speaker 2: are still alive in the nineteen thirties. Yeah, yes, ye,

2958
02:41:50,720 --> 02:41:51,720
Speaker 2: Woody Guthrie.

2959
02:41:51,480 --> 02:41:53,840
Speaker 8: Has fucking grammar. I guess, like.

2960
02:41:55,840 --> 02:41:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. We did it in the nineteen thirties.

2961
02:41:58,800 --> 02:42:01,360
Speaker 2: It was bad then and dates bad now.

2962
02:42:01,720 --> 02:42:04,520
Speaker 6: Well, now now that we got those pesky tariffs out

2963
02:42:04,520 --> 02:42:07,160
Speaker 6: of the way, let's talk about the actual most important

2964
02:42:07,160 --> 02:42:09,279
Speaker 6: thing to happen this week in the news, New Jersey

2965
02:42:09,280 --> 02:42:14,600
Speaker 6: Senator Cory Booker has broken the record for the longest.

2966
02:42:15,160 --> 02:42:17,480
Speaker 8: Twenty five hours in five minutes.

2967
02:42:17,560 --> 02:42:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's horrible, beating.

2968
02:42:18,760 --> 02:42:23,000
Speaker 6: Strom Thurmon's filibuster of the nineteen fifty seven Civil Rights

2969
02:42:23,000 --> 02:42:25,199
Speaker 6: Bill by forty six minutes.

2970
02:42:25,640 --> 02:42:30,520
Speaker 1: We did it, volks, excellent, outstanding.

2971
02:42:30,520 --> 02:42:32,640
Speaker 2: Good. I'm just checking on ah Wall Street bets and

2972
02:42:32,640 --> 02:42:33,920
Speaker 2: they're having a real one today.

2973
02:42:34,040 --> 02:42:34,840
Speaker 8: That's pretty.

2974
02:42:36,160 --> 02:42:36,840
Speaker 4: I will say.

2975
02:42:36,920 --> 02:42:39,560
Speaker 8: I will say the thing about the Booker won. So

2976
02:42:39,800 --> 02:42:42,640
Speaker 8: if you were writing a parody of the Democratic Party,

2977
02:42:43,120 --> 02:42:45,840
Speaker 8: you would write that Corey Booker did this, and like

2978
02:42:45,920 --> 02:42:48,640
Speaker 8: did the did this philibuster and then immediately turned around

2979
02:42:48,640 --> 02:42:50,800
Speaker 8: and voted yes for a cloture vote to allow Trump

2980
02:42:50,840 --> 02:42:56,000
Speaker 8: to appoint another nominee. And that's exactly what they did. Yeah,

2981
02:42:56,080 --> 02:42:58,680
Speaker 8: we can't even you can't peroy to them. It's beyond parody.

2982
02:42:58,720 --> 02:43:01,279
Speaker 8: I like astounding, it's astonishing.

2983
02:43:01,320 --> 02:43:03,520
Speaker 6: It's not even a filibuster. He's not filibuster or anything.

2984
02:43:04,200 --> 02:43:07,080
Speaker 2: We didn't he didn't actively stop anything happening other than

2985
02:43:07,080 --> 02:43:08,240
Speaker 2: people not paying attention to it.

2986
02:43:09,160 --> 02:43:11,000
Speaker 1: I got a response from someone being like, well, you know,

2987
02:43:11,000 --> 02:43:12,680
Speaker 1: they didn't get to do anything on Monday, and I

2988
02:43:12,720 --> 02:43:15,360
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, they weren't really planning on it, and

2989
02:43:15,560 --> 02:43:17,840
Speaker 1: things continued as normal Tuesday.

2990
02:43:18,520 --> 02:43:21,480
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, And you know, and here's the thing about that, right, like,

2991
02:43:21,760 --> 02:43:24,160
Speaker 8: do you know how many Democrats there are in the Senate?

2992
02:43:24,800 --> 02:43:27,039
Speaker 8: Do you know how many hours you could filibuster them

2993
02:43:27,080 --> 02:43:29,440
Speaker 8: for if you were actually determined to fucking do this,

2994
02:43:29,480 --> 02:43:31,720
Speaker 8: and on how many different things? We had a rotating

2995
02:43:31,840 --> 02:43:33,119
Speaker 8: series of Democrats.

2996
02:43:33,400 --> 02:43:35,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, show it if you tag teamed it.

2997
02:43:35,200 --> 02:43:37,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, but they're not They're not willing to fucking do it.

2998
02:43:37,680 --> 02:43:40,480
Speaker 1: No, and they'd be stopped eventually. The Republicans would do

2999
02:43:40,560 --> 02:43:42,920
Speaker 1: something fucked up to stop it. But at least you'd

3000
02:43:42,920 --> 02:43:43,840
Speaker 1: have tried.

3001
02:43:43,840 --> 02:43:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and people would maybe take some fucking energy

3002
02:43:46,879 --> 02:43:47,160
Speaker 2: from that.

3003
02:43:47,760 --> 02:43:49,800
Speaker 8: And even if you were gonna do this as a

3004
02:43:49,840 --> 02:43:52,240
Speaker 8: fucking show vote thing, you could have voted no one

3005
02:43:52,280 --> 02:43:55,959
Speaker 8: the cloture motion to like fucking do the to like

3006
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:57,960
Speaker 8: appoint the next nominee. But they're just like no, fuck

3007
02:43:57,959 --> 02:43:58,240
Speaker 8: you man.

3008
02:43:58,520 --> 02:44:01,680
Speaker 6: The fact that Chuck Schumber caved on the Republican budget

3009
02:44:01,680 --> 02:44:04,000
Speaker 6: from a few weeks ago and secretly got a number

3010
02:44:04,000 --> 02:44:06,680
Speaker 6: of Democratic senators to switch their votes to make it pass,

3011
02:44:07,320 --> 02:44:10,560
Speaker 6: and no one did this for that which which previously

3012
02:44:10,640 --> 02:44:12,920
Speaker 6: Democrats were talking about this budget bill like it's the

3013
02:44:12,920 --> 02:44:14,600
Speaker 6: worst thing to ever happen because it is.

3014
02:44:14,600 --> 02:44:17,000
Speaker 8: A bad bill. Yeah, it's really bad.

3015
02:44:17,360 --> 02:44:20,279
Speaker 6: And then they just caved last minute, or specifically Schumer

3016
02:44:20,320 --> 02:44:23,160
Speaker 6: and the people he talked to caved, and Schumer definitely

3017
02:44:23,200 --> 02:44:25,320
Speaker 6: would not have been in supportive of Booker doing something

3018
02:44:25,360 --> 02:44:28,280
Speaker 6: like this for that bill. But now Schumer gets to

3019
02:44:28,320 --> 02:44:32,480
Speaker 6: applaud along as as Booker delivers a twenty five hour

3020
02:44:32,600 --> 02:44:35,000
Speaker 6: maybe like well orated speech.

3021
02:44:34,720 --> 02:44:38,320
Speaker 1: But it was a very well written speech, like technically

3022
02:44:38,400 --> 02:44:40,000
Speaker 1: it was good, but that didn't matter.

3023
02:44:40,560 --> 02:44:43,320
Speaker 8: It's just this pure show of like symbolic theater.

3024
02:44:43,440 --> 02:44:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the point.

3025
02:44:45,120 --> 02:44:48,519
Speaker 1: It's like if a congress person got out and conducted

3026
02:44:48,560 --> 02:44:53,360
Speaker 1: like a perfect rendition of the Nutcracker like symphony of

3027
02:44:53,400 --> 02:44:55,520
Speaker 1: like the ballet portion of that on their own in

3028
02:44:55,520 --> 02:44:58,480
Speaker 1: front of like the Capitol building. Like, well, it's impressive,

3029
02:44:58,560 --> 02:45:01,440
Speaker 1: it's spectacle. Like you're clearly very good at what you're doing.

3030
02:45:01,520 --> 02:45:04,199
Speaker 1: But it didn't change anything, Like it had no impact

3031
02:45:04,480 --> 02:45:09,560
Speaker 1: on the problems. Right, Yeah, like you're good. I'll give

3032
02:45:09,560 --> 02:45:12,280
Speaker 1: you that. Corey Booker can deliver a fucking speech, but

3033
02:45:12,840 --> 02:45:14,760
Speaker 1: that was really not what I was looking for.

3034
02:45:15,160 --> 02:45:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, fiddling impressively while roam burned. Thanks Corey.

3035
02:45:20,879 --> 02:45:23,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, and every single moment the Trump is in power,

3036
02:45:23,320 --> 02:45:27,080
Speaker 8: the way that they fucking just rolled over for him

3037
02:45:27,120 --> 02:45:28,080
Speaker 8: looks worse and worse.

3038
02:45:28,320 --> 02:45:33,280
Speaker 1: Knowledge he said, I failed, and so did we. We

3039
02:45:33,320 --> 02:45:36,040
Speaker 1: didn't rise to the moment, and we let this horrible

3040
02:45:36,080 --> 02:45:39,240
Speaker 1: thing happen, which I even I got a little briefly,

3041
02:45:39,480 --> 02:45:41,840
Speaker 1: Oh shit, maybe he actually recognizes like.

3042
02:45:41,959 --> 02:45:44,600
Speaker 6: No, okay, well, because it took him like twenty hours

3043
02:45:44,640 --> 02:45:47,280
Speaker 6: to like break emotionally to the point where he could

3044
02:45:47,280 --> 02:45:48,920
Speaker 6: like admit that to himself.

3045
02:45:48,959 --> 02:45:51,520
Speaker 1: No knowledge, his deep, deep deep failed.

3046
02:45:51,600 --> 02:45:51,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3047
02:45:51,879 --> 02:45:54,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, but like it took having your brain be be

3048
02:45:54,440 --> 02:45:58,160
Speaker 6: shattered by this like pretty impressive physical act that like

3049
02:45:58,320 --> 02:46:02,480
Speaker 6: destroys your body. So in spirit and anyway, I think

3050
02:46:02,480 --> 02:46:04,680
Speaker 6: that's all we have to say about that. Let's go

3051
02:46:04,800 --> 02:46:07,119
Speaker 6: on and add break and come back to discuss more

3052
02:46:08,240 --> 02:46:13,320
Speaker 6: sad and I'll actually also possibly good news or at

3053
02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:23,360
Speaker 6: least bad for Elon Musk, which is good for us.

3054
02:46:27,680 --> 02:46:28,760
Speaker 8: All Right, we are back.

3055
02:46:29,400 --> 02:46:33,199
Speaker 6: I think let's pivot to James Stout for an update

3056
02:46:33,480 --> 02:46:42,480
Speaker 6: on Venezuela. Well, no El Salvador, Salvador the torture labor prison.

3057
02:46:43,120 --> 02:46:44,280
Speaker 8: James m M.

3058
02:46:44,400 --> 02:46:46,879
Speaker 2: Of course, we have to begin my segment today by saying,

3059
02:46:47,680 --> 02:46:50,800
Speaker 2: tros be to Abdullah Ojulen, whose birthday it is on

3060
02:46:50,840 --> 02:46:52,840
Speaker 2: the day that you are hearing this. So if you

3061
02:46:52,840 --> 02:46:54,480
Speaker 2: want to plant, if you want to plant a tree

3062
02:46:54,520 --> 02:46:58,439
Speaker 2: for APPO, get it, get out there and plant your tree. Unfortunately,

3063
02:46:58,440 --> 02:47:00,680
Speaker 2: that is the only good news we have to Border

3064
02:47:00,680 --> 02:47:03,680
Speaker 2: Patrol has spent most of this week touting the quote

3065
02:47:03,680 --> 02:47:06,520
Speaker 2: lowest number of border crossings in history. It will shock

3066
02:47:06,600 --> 02:47:09,840
Speaker 2: listeners to hear that this is not historically accurate. Bordering

3067
02:47:09,920 --> 02:47:13,120
Speaker 2: counters are way down. If there's one thing that I

3068
02:47:13,160 --> 02:47:16,119
Speaker 2: have ever taught you. It is that bordering counters are

3069
02:47:16,160 --> 02:47:19,040
Speaker 2: not the same as unique individuals, because people are being

3070
02:47:19,080 --> 02:47:21,879
Speaker 2: sent directly back to Mexico and will tend to return

3071
02:47:22,480 --> 02:47:24,960
Speaker 2: attempting a different route crossing the border. Right, there's our

3072
02:47:25,000 --> 02:47:28,640
Speaker 2: way down. And they're the lowest since they began publishing

3073
02:47:28,640 --> 02:47:31,600
Speaker 2: monthly data in two thousand, but numbers will way lower

3074
02:47:31,640 --> 02:47:35,560
Speaker 2: in the fifties and sixties and before then. It's relatively immaterial.

3075
02:47:35,680 --> 02:47:39,000
Speaker 2: It's just sort of a nipiggy point. I guess today,

3076
02:47:39,040 --> 02:47:41,000
Speaker 2: what I really want to talk about is the case

3077
02:47:41,000 --> 02:47:46,560
Speaker 2: of mister Kilmar Abrador Garcia. He was removed by the

3078
02:47:46,560 --> 02:47:50,000
Speaker 2: Trump administration to Elsa aberdoor to SECOT in a way

3079
02:47:50,080 --> 02:47:52,880
Speaker 2: they have admitted was a mistake. So we have to

3080
02:47:52,920 --> 02:47:55,480
Speaker 2: go back a little bit to understand mister Abergo Garcia's

3081
02:47:55,520 --> 02:47:58,440
Speaker 2: story and how we got here. He was arrested in

3082
02:47:58,480 --> 02:48:00,720
Speaker 2: mid March due to the United States mcclaimed that he

3083
02:48:00,760 --> 02:48:04,480
Speaker 2: played a quote prominent role in MS thirteen M thirteen

3084
02:48:04,600 --> 02:48:07,560
Speaker 2: being the Salvadorrean gang. Right he'd come to the United

3085
02:48:07,600 --> 02:48:10,720
Speaker 2: States in twenty eleven. He was fleeing gang violence. He

3086
02:48:10,840 --> 02:48:15,039
Speaker 2: was allegedly arrested in twenty nineteen outside a home depot

3087
02:48:15,040 --> 02:48:18,440
Speaker 2: where he was standing with other men looking for work. However,

3088
02:48:18,520 --> 02:48:22,520
Speaker 2: the incident report for that particular incident gives other names,

3089
02:48:22,600 --> 02:48:27,680
Speaker 2: but not his. At that point, a Prince George's County

3090
02:48:27,680 --> 02:48:31,840
Speaker 2: Police Department detective filled out a quote gang worksheet and

3091
02:48:31,920 --> 02:48:35,480
Speaker 2: claimed that mister Abergagarcia was associated with a member of

3092
02:48:35,720 --> 02:48:38,280
Speaker 2: MS thirteen. The evidence he cited for this was a

3093
02:48:38,360 --> 02:48:43,119
Speaker 2: Chicago bulls hoodie and the claim of a confidential informant.

3094
02:48:43,200 --> 02:48:45,400
Speaker 2: The competition informant claimed that he was part of a

3095
02:48:46,320 --> 02:48:49,360
Speaker 2: group within this gang that was set up in a

3096
02:48:49,360 --> 02:48:53,640
Speaker 2: state that mister Abergagarcia had never lived in the United States.

3097
02:48:53,640 --> 02:48:58,280
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, Ice argued that he shouldn't be given

3098
02:48:58,480 --> 02:49:01,920
Speaker 2: bond because of this alleged gang membership right, and so

3099
02:49:02,000 --> 02:49:05,320
Speaker 2: he wasn't given bond, but through an asylum claim. Although

3100
02:49:05,320 --> 02:49:09,080
Speaker 2: he didn't get asylum, he was protected from removal right,

3101
02:49:09,120 --> 02:49:11,119
Speaker 2: so a judge ruled that he couldn't be removed back

3102
02:49:11,160 --> 02:49:15,400
Speaker 2: to El Salvador, where he would presumably face violence. When

3103
02:49:15,720 --> 02:49:19,720
Speaker 2: mister abergo Garcia's lawyers tried to interview the police detective

3104
02:49:19,760 --> 02:49:22,320
Speaker 2: who had filed this report, accusing him of gang membership.

3105
02:49:22,720 --> 02:49:24,680
Speaker 2: They found no record of his rest and that the

3106
02:49:24,720 --> 02:49:28,000
Speaker 2: detective has been suspended since then. The Department of question

3107
02:49:28,080 --> 02:49:30,760
Speaker 2: also settled a lawsuit with its own corps over racism

3108
02:49:30,800 --> 02:49:31,400
Speaker 2: in the department.

3109
02:49:32,040 --> 02:49:32,320
Speaker 8: JD.

3110
02:49:32,560 --> 02:49:36,240
Speaker 2: Vance, who has a law degree. Right the JD is

3111
02:49:36,320 --> 02:49:38,720
Speaker 2: I guess before and after his name. He has a

3112
02:49:38,760 --> 02:49:41,480
Speaker 2: law degree from Harvard has claimed that mister Ablergo Garcia

3113
02:49:41,560 --> 02:49:44,240
Speaker 2: is a convicted member of MS thirteen. This is not true.

3114
02:49:44,640 --> 02:49:46,880
Speaker 2: I can't find any evidence he has any conviction of

3115
02:49:46,920 --> 02:49:49,800
Speaker 2: any kind. I'm going to quote here from a filing

3116
02:49:49,800 --> 02:49:52,600
Speaker 2: by the United States government on the fifteenth of March.

3117
02:49:52,680 --> 02:49:55,400
Speaker 2: Although Ice was aware of his protection from removal to

3118
02:49:55,400 --> 02:49:59,360
Speaker 2: El Salvador, Abergo Garcia was removed to El Salvador because

3119
02:49:59,400 --> 02:50:02,880
Speaker 2: of an admis innstrative error. So the government there has

3120
02:50:02,879 --> 02:50:05,760
Speaker 2: admitted in the court finally that they accidentally sent this

3121
02:50:05,840 --> 02:50:09,240
Speaker 2: guide to the prison labor camp in El Salvador. Right,

3122
02:50:09,800 --> 02:50:14,440
Speaker 2: according to ice acting field Officer Robert Cerner quote, he

3123
02:50:14,560 --> 02:50:17,160
Speaker 2: was an alternate as others were removed from the flight

3124
02:50:17,200 --> 02:50:19,720
Speaker 2: for various reasons. He moved up the list and was

3125
02:50:19,760 --> 02:50:22,400
Speaker 2: assigned to the flight. So it appears that they had

3126
02:50:22,440 --> 02:50:25,160
Speaker 2: a large list of people they wanted to put on

3127
02:50:25,240 --> 02:50:28,280
Speaker 2: this flight. This is interesting, right, It's an insight into

3128
02:50:28,320 --> 02:50:31,160
Speaker 2: their process for filling that first flight that they some

3129
02:50:31,240 --> 02:50:33,480
Speaker 2: people they really didn't feel they had enough evidence for.

3130
02:50:33,720 --> 02:50:36,280
Speaker 2: But somehow this guy, who again has never been convicted

3131
02:50:36,560 --> 02:50:39,800
Speaker 2: of having any membership of any gang, they put on

3132
02:50:40,240 --> 02:50:43,840
Speaker 2: this flight. Right. His wife and child are both US citizens,

3133
02:50:44,360 --> 02:50:47,119
Speaker 2: and they have sued in court. That's why we're seeing this. Right.

3134
02:50:47,120 --> 02:50:50,280
Speaker 2: They've sued for the United States government to stop paying

3135
02:50:50,760 --> 02:50:53,280
Speaker 2: El Salvador for his detention and for the United States

3136
02:50:53,320 --> 02:50:58,400
Speaker 2: government to demand he returned. Vance has advanced a kind

3137
02:50:58,400 --> 02:51:02,440
Speaker 2: of unique legal theory response, claiming that withholding of removal

3138
02:51:02,480 --> 02:51:04,840
Speaker 2: only prevent someone being deported back to the home state.

3139
02:51:05,360 --> 02:51:09,720
Speaker 2: I mean you could, technically that is what the withholding is, right, Like,

3140
02:51:09,760 --> 02:51:11,640
Speaker 2: it's like, he can't go back to El Salvador because

3141
02:51:11,640 --> 02:51:14,280
Speaker 2: he will be at risk in El Salvador, so so

3142
02:51:14,400 --> 02:51:16,600
Speaker 2: they can deport him to a third state. But they

3143
02:51:16,640 --> 02:51:20,480
Speaker 2: deported him to El Salvador or renditioned him to El Salvador. Right.

3144
02:51:20,920 --> 02:51:24,080
Speaker 2: I want to read JD. Vance's post here. I'm not

3145
02:51:24,120 --> 02:51:25,640
Speaker 2: going to read the whole thing, but I'll start with

3146
02:51:25,720 --> 02:51:29,400
Speaker 2: the second paragraph in twenty nineteen. Immigration judge parentheses under

3147
02:51:29,440 --> 02:51:32,480
Speaker 2: the Biden administration. For those of you who are familiar

3148
02:51:32,520 --> 02:51:37,600
Speaker 2: with dates, it's twenty nineteen. Was under the first Trump administration.

3149
02:51:37,680 --> 02:51:42,080
Speaker 2: That that was the Strong administration. Yeah, moving on, determined

3150
02:51:42,080 --> 02:51:44,520
Speaker 2: that the deported man was, in fact a member of

3151
02:51:44,560 --> 02:51:47,520
Speaker 2: the MS thirteen gang. He also apparently had multiple traffic

3152
02:51:47,600 --> 02:51:50,039
Speaker 2: violations for which he failed to appear in court. A

3153
02:51:50,120 --> 02:51:53,440
Speaker 2: real winner. It is telling that the entire American media

3154
02:51:53,480 --> 02:51:56,120
Speaker 2: is going to run a propaganda operation today making you

3155
02:51:56,160 --> 02:51:59,320
Speaker 2: think that an innocent quote father of three was apprehended

3156
02:51:59,360 --> 02:52:00,840
Speaker 2: by a gula father.

3157
02:52:00,640 --> 02:52:02,879
Speaker 8: Of threes in quotes here by the way.

3158
02:52:03,080 --> 02:52:07,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And gulags generally not capable of doing the

3159
02:52:07,040 --> 02:52:10,000
Speaker 2: apprehensions themselves. If we think of a gulag as a place,

3160
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:13,400
Speaker 2: is the police who are apprehend the person send them

3161
02:52:13,400 --> 02:52:16,600
Speaker 2: to the gulag. Moving on, here are the relevant facts.

3162
02:52:16,640 --> 02:52:19,400
Speaker 2: I'm still quoting. The man is an illegal immigrant with

3163
02:52:19,440 --> 02:52:21,920
Speaker 2: no right to be in our country. Obviously, the judge

3164
02:52:22,040 --> 02:52:25,640
Speaker 2: determined that he was protected from removal. Quoting again, and

3165
02:52:25,720 --> 02:52:28,160
Speaker 2: immigration judge during the Biden I've been determined he was

3166
02:52:28,200 --> 02:52:32,000
Speaker 2: a member of the MS thirteen gang. Again, that's not

3167
02:52:32,080 --> 02:52:32,800
Speaker 2: the case.

3168
02:52:32,680 --> 02:52:34,720
Speaker 8: It's staggering the extent to which they can say a

3169
02:52:34,720 --> 02:52:38,480
Speaker 8: sentence where every single individual word is a lie, like stunning.

3170
02:52:38,760 --> 02:52:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

3171
02:52:39,480 --> 02:52:42,240
Speaker 6: The fact that so many members of the Modern Republican

3172
02:52:42,440 --> 02:52:45,600
Speaker 6: Party have like memory hold twenty nineteen and twenty twenty

3173
02:52:45,600 --> 02:52:49,240
Speaker 6: as being under the Biden in administration is just insane.

3174
02:52:49,480 --> 02:52:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bizarre. I think what they're referring to is

3175
02:52:51,480 --> 02:52:54,240
Speaker 2: that the initial hearing right where he was denied bomb

3176
02:52:54,280 --> 02:52:56,640
Speaker 2: within twenty nineteen, and then he filed his asylum claim

3177
02:52:56,680 --> 02:52:59,840
Speaker 2: and later was protected from removal. But that's not what

3178
02:53:00,160 --> 02:53:00,760
Speaker 2: saying here.

3179
02:53:00,879 --> 02:53:03,560
Speaker 6: But like even the way they talk about, like the

3180
02:53:03,600 --> 02:53:08,400
Speaker 6: COVID response, they talk about it as if Joe Biden

3181
02:53:08,480 --> 02:53:09,039
Speaker 6: was the president.

3182
02:53:09,120 --> 02:53:12,160
Speaker 1: They're not gonna lock us down again, but you locked

3183
02:53:12,240 --> 02:53:12,760
Speaker 1: us down?

3184
02:53:13,440 --> 02:53:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, who did that? And then the last one, I

3185
02:53:16,120 --> 02:53:18,520
Speaker 2: think it's most rebelatory because he's not a citizen, he

3186
02:53:18,560 --> 02:53:20,760
Speaker 2: does not get full jury trial by peers. In other words,

3187
02:53:20,840 --> 02:53:23,800
Speaker 2: whatever due process he was entitled to he received, the

3188
02:53:23,840 --> 02:53:26,920
Speaker 2: immigration court doesn't generally present the opportunity for jury trial.

3189
02:53:27,080 --> 02:53:30,440
Speaker 2: Right once again, holds a JdE and he presumably knows this.

3190
02:53:31,440 --> 02:53:34,360
Speaker 2: What's more disturbing is the claim made by the United

3191
02:53:34,400 --> 02:53:37,320
Speaker 2: States government in its filing in this lawsuit that the

3192
02:53:37,360 --> 02:53:42,720
Speaker 2: Abergo Garcia family filed quote, because plaintiffs conceived that Abergogarcia

3193
02:53:42,800 --> 02:53:45,800
Speaker 2: is not in the United States custody, this court cannot

3194
02:53:45,840 --> 02:53:49,120
Speaker 2: hear these claims. So they're claiming that no US court

3195
02:53:49,400 --> 02:53:52,800
Speaker 2: has jurisdiction over the question of these people who are

3196
02:53:52,800 --> 02:53:57,720
Speaker 2: in El Salvador because they're not in US custody, right, which, obviously,

3197
02:53:57,800 --> 02:54:00,360
Speaker 2: if they stick the landing on this, it suggests like

3198
02:54:00,360 --> 02:54:02,920
Speaker 2: it is a one way ticket to the prison labor camp,

3199
02:54:03,040 --> 02:54:05,640
Speaker 2: right that that you cannot challenge that in US court

3200
02:54:06,120 --> 02:54:07,880
Speaker 2: and you ain't going to get very far in in

3201
02:54:08,360 --> 02:54:11,760
Speaker 2: court elsauwud all right, So what they're suggesting here is

3202
02:54:11,800 --> 02:54:14,600
Speaker 2: this is this is a forever detention that that there

3203
02:54:14,640 --> 02:54:17,119
Speaker 2: is no habeas right that that was they were asking

3204
02:54:17,160 --> 02:54:18,040
Speaker 2: for habeas corpus.

3205
02:54:18,120 --> 02:54:20,680
Speaker 8: Can you spen my habest corpus actually is for the listeners.

3206
02:54:21,160 --> 02:54:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it means bring me the body, right in this

3207
02:54:23,840 --> 02:54:24,440
Speaker 2: case is.

3208
02:54:24,440 --> 02:54:29,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to present evidence in order to charge

3209
02:54:29,360 --> 02:54:30,600
Speaker 1: like convict people and things.

3210
02:54:30,640 --> 02:54:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the snaqua non of having a justice system,

3211
02:54:34,000 --> 02:54:38,119
Speaker 2: a criminal justice right, like show something. Yeah, you can't

3212
02:54:38,160 --> 02:54:40,160
Speaker 2: just be like bad man and then put the guy

3213
02:54:40,200 --> 02:54:40,640
Speaker 2: in jail.

3214
02:54:41,040 --> 02:54:43,240
Speaker 1: The most basic thing is that like, yeah, I mean

3215
02:54:43,240 --> 02:54:45,080
Speaker 1: in literal terms, it means you have to like actually

3216
02:54:45,080 --> 02:54:47,120
Speaker 1: take somebody in front of a court in order to

3217
02:54:47,120 --> 02:54:50,280
Speaker 1: determine if they're like being detained for a reason, right,

3218
02:54:50,360 --> 02:54:52,680
Speaker 1: Like a judge has to see them and say, like, yes,

3219
02:54:53,240 --> 02:54:55,920
Speaker 1: this is this is not an unlawful imprisonment. There is

3220
02:54:55,959 --> 02:54:59,279
Speaker 1: a charge, there is some degree of evidence that somebody

3221
02:54:59,320 --> 02:55:00,320
Speaker 1: did something.

3222
02:55:00,440 --> 02:55:02,920
Speaker 2: Right, which they have not provided here, right.

3223
02:55:03,360 --> 02:55:05,320
Speaker 1: Not that like you can prove they did it, but

3224
02:55:05,400 --> 02:55:08,160
Speaker 1: like something was done and you are here for that

3225
02:55:08,320 --> 02:55:09,000
Speaker 1: for a reason.

3226
02:55:09,600 --> 02:55:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so in this case, we don't have any

3227
02:55:13,560 --> 02:55:17,400
Speaker 2: of that. Mister Ablogacia is still the way his family

3228
02:55:17,440 --> 02:55:19,920
Speaker 2: found out he was in second was that his wife

3229
02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:22,520
Speaker 2: identified him by scars on his head when they shaved

3230
02:55:22,560 --> 02:55:24,240
Speaker 2: it and a tattoo they.

3231
02:55:24,080 --> 02:55:25,439
Speaker 8: Saw Jesus Christy.

3232
02:55:25,520 --> 02:55:29,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had no idea. It presumably doesn't come up

3233
02:55:29,080 --> 02:55:31,320
Speaker 2: on the ice detainee locator. You know that you're going

3234
02:55:31,360 --> 02:55:33,440
Speaker 2: to look up your family members on if your family

3235
02:55:33,440 --> 02:55:35,880
Speaker 2: members are detained by I doesn't have l Salvador as

3236
02:55:35,879 --> 02:55:38,720
Speaker 2: an option. So yeah, this is where we're at. This

3237
02:55:39,000 --> 02:55:41,200
Speaker 2: is the case I will be following right because I

3238
02:55:41,240 --> 02:55:44,200
Speaker 2: say it's pretty pivotal if they can argue that the

3239
02:55:44,200 --> 02:55:47,080
Speaker 2: court doesn't have jurisdiction. Obviously, I'm sure at that point

3240
02:55:47,360 --> 02:55:49,280
Speaker 2: that ruling will be challenged and it will run up

3241
02:55:49,680 --> 02:55:52,920
Speaker 2: the courts. Currently it seems like the only court they're

3242
02:55:52,920 --> 02:55:55,840
Speaker 2: going to listen to is a Supreme Court. But evidently

3243
02:55:55,879 --> 02:55:57,720
Speaker 2: that this is what they're going for, Like this is

3244
02:55:57,760 --> 02:56:00,320
Speaker 2: their argument here that once you're in El Salvador, out

3245
02:56:00,320 --> 02:56:03,520
Speaker 2: of their hands and they can't do anything. So sorry,

3246
02:56:03,640 --> 02:56:05,480
Speaker 2: even though it's a mistake, you have stuck there forever,

3247
02:56:05,920 --> 02:56:07,160
Speaker 2: which is pretty disturbing.

3248
02:56:07,840 --> 02:56:11,600
Speaker 6: Yesterday, me and James did an episode on ICE's targeting

3249
02:56:11,760 --> 02:56:17,040
Speaker 6: of students, scholars, and professors that they believe are associated

3250
02:56:17,080 --> 02:56:20,480
Speaker 6: with pro Palace time protests. So we did an update

3251
02:56:20,520 --> 02:56:23,000
Speaker 6: on that story that I did a peace on or

3252
02:56:23,160 --> 02:56:25,840
Speaker 6: a segment on last week on Executive Disorder. So for

3253
02:56:25,879 --> 02:56:28,879
Speaker 6: a follow up on that, you can look to yesterday's episode.

3254
02:56:28,959 --> 02:56:31,400
Speaker 6: But we are going to close with I guess kind

3255
02:56:31,400 --> 02:56:35,280
Speaker 6: of a feel good story because it makes Elon Musk sad.

3256
02:56:36,120 --> 02:56:37,959
Speaker 6: He has had a bit a bit of a rough

3257
02:56:38,040 --> 02:56:44,520
Speaker 6: week for mister Musk's businesses and his political projects. I

3258
02:56:44,560 --> 02:56:48,640
Speaker 6: guess Elon Musk's efforts to buy the Wisconsin Supreme Court

3259
02:56:48,800 --> 02:56:53,600
Speaker 6: have failed, as the Democratic backed candidate swept the election,

3260
02:56:53,879 --> 02:56:57,760
Speaker 6: maintaining four to three Liberal control of the Supreme Court

3261
02:56:58,040 --> 02:56:58,959
Speaker 6: of Wisconsin.

3262
02:56:59,400 --> 02:56:59,600
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3263
02:56:59,600 --> 02:57:02,440
Speaker 1: I mean the gist of it is of like three

3264
02:57:02,520 --> 02:57:05,160
Speaker 1: or four days ago, all of my friends from who

3265
02:57:05,200 --> 02:57:09,600
Speaker 1: are Scanies got furious because Elon Musk wore a cheesehead,

3266
02:57:10,160 --> 02:57:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, like the ones for the packers that the

3267
02:57:12,680 --> 02:57:15,560
Speaker 1: people from Wisconsin ware when they're at games while he

3268
02:57:15,600 --> 02:57:19,600
Speaker 1: got up on stage and gave a million dollars. Basically

3269
02:57:19,640 --> 02:57:22,800
Speaker 1: immediately before, like about little less than a week ago,

3270
02:57:22,959 --> 02:57:26,040
Speaker 1: a higher court ruled that it was not bribery for

3271
02:57:26,120 --> 02:57:28,920
Speaker 1: him to offer people a million dollars at random if

3272
02:57:28,920 --> 02:57:33,119
Speaker 1: they voted or showed up at like you know, different

3273
02:57:33,200 --> 02:57:35,560
Speaker 1: rallies and stuff, which is like what he's been doing, right,

3274
02:57:35,720 --> 02:57:39,120
Speaker 1: is making these basically fake offers of a million dollars

3275
02:57:39,160 --> 02:57:42,120
Speaker 1: because these two went to members of the local Republican party,

3276
02:57:42,240 --> 02:57:43,640
Speaker 1: like it was clearly set up.

3277
02:57:44,360 --> 02:57:47,000
Speaker 8: The head of the College Republicans.

3278
02:57:46,240 --> 02:57:51,000
Speaker 6: Of Wisconsin, amazing must fish twenty five million dollars leads

3279
02:57:51,120 --> 02:57:54,400
Speaker 6: on this race. He danced around on stage wearing a cheesehead,

3280
02:57:54,560 --> 02:57:57,600
Speaker 6: and he gave out million dollar novelty checks to quote

3281
02:57:57,640 --> 02:58:01,519
Speaker 6: unquote voters who won a contest by signing his petition

3282
02:58:01,800 --> 02:58:05,720
Speaker 6: against activist judges, which has been the new rally and

3283
02:58:05,760 --> 02:58:07,879
Speaker 6: cry on the right is that everything that's going wrong,

3284
02:58:07,920 --> 02:58:10,560
Speaker 6: everything that's stopping Trump, is from these active studges that

3285
02:58:10,600 --> 02:58:14,320
Speaker 6: we have to unseat. He also gave one hundred dollars

3286
02:58:14,400 --> 02:58:18,240
Speaker 6: each to every person who signed that petition, and on

3287
02:58:18,360 --> 02:58:22,520
Speaker 6: election Day, Musk offered voters fifty dollars if they posted

3288
02:58:22,520 --> 02:58:25,720
Speaker 6: a picture of a Wisconsin resident outside of a polling place.

3289
02:58:26,480 --> 02:58:27,760
Speaker 8: How is that allowed?

3290
02:58:28,280 --> 02:58:31,400
Speaker 6: These are the same people who scream about like election interference,

3291
02:58:31,480 --> 02:58:36,560
Speaker 6: rigging elections, buying elections for the elections, ed like, like

3292
02:58:36,640 --> 02:58:39,200
Speaker 6: this is insane stuff. You can go to jail for

3293
02:58:39,240 --> 02:58:43,320
Speaker 6: giving people a water bottle in line at polling places

3294
02:58:43,360 --> 02:58:46,840
Speaker 6: in multiple states, and Musk is allowed to give people

3295
02:58:46,920 --> 02:58:51,240
Speaker 6: fifty dollars for pictures posted outside of polling places. What

3296
02:58:51,280 --> 02:58:56,840
Speaker 6: the fuck is happening? But luckily, the negative polarization against

3297
02:58:57,000 --> 02:59:00,320
Speaker 6: Musk and Tesla that's been increasing the past few months

3298
02:59:00,600 --> 02:59:04,879
Speaker 6: has resulted in Judge SUVN. Crawford beating the mega had

3299
02:59:05,320 --> 02:59:09,640
Speaker 6: Republican judge who last year went as Donald Trump for Halloween,

3300
02:59:10,160 --> 02:59:15,240
Speaker 6: beating this guy by by ten percent. This was a massive,

3301
02:59:15,480 --> 02:59:19,480
Speaker 6: a massive reversal of the twenty twenty four persential election

3302
02:59:19,600 --> 02:59:23,360
Speaker 6: results in Wisconsin. There was a record high turnout for

3303
02:59:23,400 --> 02:59:26,600
Speaker 6: this spring election, forty percent higher than the last Wisconsin

3304
02:59:26,640 --> 02:59:30,680
Speaker 6: Supreme Court election, which was in twenty twenty three, which which.

3305
02:59:30,560 --> 02:59:32,160
Speaker 8: By the way, that was that was also a high

3306
02:59:32,160 --> 02:59:33,000
Speaker 8: turner election too.

3307
02:59:33,080 --> 02:59:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.

3308
02:59:34,240 --> 02:59:36,240
Speaker 8: Like that that previous one. Then this one just fucking

3309
02:59:36,240 --> 02:59:37,080
Speaker 8: obliterated it.

3310
02:59:37,200 --> 02:59:39,920
Speaker 6: Like this was like just under the results of like

3311
02:59:39,959 --> 02:59:42,080
Speaker 6: what you would expect to out of like a midterm election.

3312
02:59:42,360 --> 02:59:42,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3313
02:59:42,800 --> 02:59:43,279
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3314
02:59:43,320 --> 02:59:46,879
Speaker 6: They shifted every single county in the state blue compared

3315
02:59:46,879 --> 02:59:49,640
Speaker 6: to the twenty twenty four presidential election, and on average

3316
02:59:49,640 --> 02:59:54,240
Speaker 6: by about ten to twelve points, massive, massive shifts.

3317
02:59:54,440 --> 02:59:56,680
Speaker 8: And this was before the tariffs, by the way. Yeah,

3318
02:59:57,120 --> 02:59:59,280
Speaker 8: like this this was before the terror.

3319
03:00:00,200 --> 03:00:07,000
Speaker 2: No, this was pure personal dislike of Elon musk meddling

3320
03:00:07,080 --> 03:00:10,240
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin politics. Well like and everything else has happened

3321
03:00:10,240 --> 03:00:13,680
Speaker 2: since January, but like it does seem like Elon Musk's

3322
03:00:13,680 --> 03:00:17,320
Speaker 2: personal presence was a net negative and all the money

3323
03:00:17,320 --> 03:00:19,080
Speaker 2: he spent Luckily.

3324
03:00:18,760 --> 03:00:22,240
Speaker 6: The next day there was a Tesla sales report which

3325
03:00:22,360 --> 03:00:25,480
Speaker 6: was one of the worst in the history of their company,

3326
03:00:25,800 --> 03:00:28,800
Speaker 6: of fifty percent of fewer vehicles being delivered in the

3327
03:00:28,800 --> 03:00:33,280
Speaker 6: first three months compared to last year, with Tesla's stock

3328
03:00:33,920 --> 03:00:37,959
Speaker 6: continuing to plunge the past week, although with reports that

3329
03:00:37,959 --> 03:00:41,760
Speaker 6: that Musk might exit the inner circle of the Trump administration. Yeah,

3330
03:00:41,840 --> 03:00:44,720
Speaker 6: those stocks are kind of flipping back and forth as

3331
03:00:44,720 --> 03:00:46,560
Speaker 6: he's expected to return to his company.

3332
03:00:46,760 --> 03:00:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and who know, like a lot of that's

3333
03:00:48,720 --> 03:00:49,800
Speaker 1: clearly the tariffs.

3334
03:00:49,840 --> 03:00:52,440
Speaker 6: Well yes, and then with the tariffs, this is a

3335
03:00:53,240 --> 03:00:53,760
Speaker 6: whole other.

3336
03:00:53,640 --> 03:00:55,400
Speaker 2: Issue, real double whammy for Tesla.

3337
03:00:55,520 --> 03:00:58,440
Speaker 1: The reporting is that people around Trump have largely soured

3338
03:00:58,440 --> 03:01:01,279
Speaker 1: on Musk. Who knows how true that is. There's always

3339
03:01:01,280 --> 03:01:04,080
Speaker 1: a lot of reports from the Trump inner circle that are, like,

3340
03:01:04,240 --> 03:01:06,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's yeah, he's always had a very

3341
03:01:06,520 --> 03:01:10,800
Speaker 1: leaky yeah, but and I can see it being multi causal.

3342
03:01:10,920 --> 03:01:14,800
Speaker 1: Like Musk has failed badly in Wisconsin. The kind of

3343
03:01:14,840 --> 03:01:17,680
Speaker 1: suspicion right now is that Schibble or whatever his name

3344
03:01:17,760 --> 03:01:21,680
Speaker 1: is was down about five points relative to other MANGA

3345
03:01:21,720 --> 03:01:25,360
Speaker 1: candidates in the same election, which people are attributing largely

3346
03:01:25,400 --> 03:01:26,400
Speaker 1: to Musk's intervention.

3347
03:01:27,720 --> 03:01:29,720
Speaker 6: Well, and like they were testing out if he was

3348
03:01:29,720 --> 03:01:33,560
Speaker 6: like a stable, consistent, reliable political operator, or if what

3349
03:01:33,600 --> 03:01:35,280
Speaker 6: he did in twenty twenty four was kind of like

3350
03:01:35,320 --> 03:01:37,800
Speaker 6: a one off event, if he's like a one trick

3351
03:01:37,879 --> 03:01:43,320
Speaker 6: tony there, and this complete, like devastating loss demonstrated that

3352
03:01:43,360 --> 03:01:48,920
Speaker 6: maybe this unstable drug addict no offense to a specifically

3353
03:01:49,440 --> 03:01:52,440
Speaker 6: for Elon Musk, who's railing ketemene all the time and

3354
03:01:52,480 --> 03:01:56,200
Speaker 6: trying to run the entire world. Luckily, Luckily, my friends

3355
03:01:56,200 --> 03:01:59,320
Speaker 6: who might indulge in kedymene don't try to run the

3356
03:01:59,440 --> 03:02:00,000
Speaker 6: entire world.

3357
03:02:00,200 --> 03:02:02,560
Speaker 1: You say that now, but you'll you'll get older at

3358
03:02:02,560 --> 03:02:03,000
Speaker 1: some point.

3359
03:02:03,080 --> 03:02:05,880
Speaker 4: It's it's the have midlife crisis too.

3360
03:02:06,120 --> 03:02:08,560
Speaker 6: But he was showed in like a very public way

3361
03:02:08,720 --> 03:02:12,360
Speaker 6: to be to be like an unstable political force. And

3362
03:02:12,360 --> 03:02:14,160
Speaker 6: and yeah, that's going to turn some of some of

3363
03:02:14,200 --> 03:02:16,240
Speaker 6: the people in the Trump admins against him.

3364
03:02:16,560 --> 03:02:16,840
Speaker 1: Yep.

3365
03:02:17,160 --> 03:02:19,320
Speaker 6: Anyway, that's I think that's all I have to say

3366
03:02:19,360 --> 03:02:22,240
Speaker 6: about this. Wisconsin, Rightisconsin, Rice, Sorry.

3367
03:02:22,760 --> 03:02:24,840
Speaker 1: All right, well I think that's probably an episode.

3368
03:02:25,640 --> 03:02:28,720
Speaker 8: Wait shit, hold on, I just I just found the

3369
03:02:28,760 --> 03:02:31,640
Speaker 8: funniest fucking thing about this terriff I think I've seen

3370
03:02:31,760 --> 03:02:32,760
Speaker 8: yet from fucking.

3371
03:02:32,760 --> 03:02:48,760
Speaker 7: Wait, locking Jack JASP, locking, locking, locking JASP.

3372
03:02:50,040 --> 03:02:50,880
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back.

3373
03:02:51,120 --> 03:02:54,840
Speaker 8: Apparently the tariffs are not broken down by country. This

3374
03:02:54,920 --> 03:02:57,039
Speaker 8: is quote from this guy of the effects on Twitter.

3375
03:02:57,080 --> 03:02:59,240
Speaker 8: They're not broken down by country, They're broken down by

3376
03:02:59,240 --> 03:03:02,959
Speaker 8: top level inn that domain. It's why the island's populated

3377
03:03:03,120 --> 03:03:05,720
Speaker 8: entirely by penguins the dot hm domain. And why the

3378
03:03:05,720 --> 03:03:07,240
Speaker 8: Diego Garcia military base.

3379
03:03:08,160 --> 03:03:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, like fucking McDonald's island.

3380
03:03:10,840 --> 03:03:14,600
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah yeah. And why why Renion Gibraltar oliced sid

3381
03:03:14,720 --> 03:03:16,560
Speaker 8: when did yeah?

3382
03:03:16,720 --> 03:03:19,280
Speaker 1: Like yah? What love Reunion is part of France? Why

3383
03:03:19,280 --> 03:03:25,560
Speaker 1: are we hitting these guys? Okay, that makes sense. That

3384
03:03:25,560 --> 03:03:28,360
Speaker 1: that that is that that is what a nineteen year

3385
03:03:28,400 --> 03:03:31,840
Speaker 1: old who never went to college, my god, but thinks

3386
03:03:31,879 --> 03:03:35,280
Speaker 1: he's he understands all of reality would do. Okay, great

3387
03:03:35,560 --> 03:03:41,879
Speaker 1: dictatorship of Chad GVT. Fucking phenomenal, My fucking god, unbelievable.

3388
03:03:42,000 --> 03:03:44,120
Speaker 8: Look look, okay. The note I want to close on

3389
03:03:44,320 --> 03:03:47,800
Speaker 8: is that so podcaster Mike Duncan, the creator of the

3390
03:03:47,800 --> 03:03:50,440
Speaker 8: Revolutions podcast, a man who has spent literally tens of

3391
03:03:50,480 --> 03:03:55,920
Speaker 8: thousands of hours writing about like every revolution that's ever happened.

3392
03:03:56,480 --> 03:03:59,039
Speaker 8: At the end of the original run of the series, revolutions.

3393
03:03:59,080 --> 03:04:02,320
Speaker 8: He he makes this point, which is that all revolutions

3394
03:04:02,760 --> 03:04:05,880
Speaker 8: work because they encounter you encounter one of the great

3395
03:04:05,879 --> 03:04:08,800
Speaker 8: idiots of history, a man who is blessed with with

3396
03:04:08,920 --> 03:04:12,240
Speaker 8: the the the inalienable ability to make the wrong decision

3397
03:04:12,280 --> 03:04:15,240
Speaker 8: at every single time. And my god, if we can't

3398
03:04:15,320 --> 03:04:18,760
Speaker 8: beat these motherfuckers, like if that shit's entirely on us,

3399
03:04:18,800 --> 03:04:20,920
Speaker 8: because we have been handed one of the greatest idiots

3400
03:04:20,920 --> 03:04:23,600
Speaker 8: of history that has ever existed in the history of humanity.

3401
03:04:24,000 --> 03:04:27,240
Speaker 8: And our fucking job now is to turn that into

3402
03:04:27,920 --> 03:04:29,440
Speaker 8: fucking a better world, to do.

3403
03:04:29,560 --> 03:04:33,160
Speaker 1: Something, yeah, something, Yeah, we'll see. The problem is that

3404
03:04:33,200 --> 03:04:35,879
Speaker 1: there's a lot of greater idiots out there, and they

3405
03:04:35,879 --> 03:04:39,280
Speaker 1: are they all do still have guns and money. One

3406
03:04:39,280 --> 03:04:41,520
Speaker 1: of the great tragedies of the world is that very

3407
03:04:41,680 --> 03:04:45,880
Speaker 1: very stupid people can still fire guns. We made them

3408
03:04:45,920 --> 03:04:46,840
Speaker 1: too easy, folks.

3409
03:04:46,959 --> 03:04:50,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen I've seen that happen a couple of times. Yeah,

3410
03:04:50,160 --> 03:04:51,560
Speaker 2: in the old conduct of my work.

3411
03:04:52,040 --> 03:04:55,960
Speaker 1: Anyway, all right, well, we reported the news. We reported

3412
03:04:55,959 --> 03:04:59,240
Speaker 1: the news. Now you go out there and you know what,

3413
03:04:59,400 --> 03:05:03,000
Speaker 1: find someone who lives on the Isle of McDonald near

3414
03:05:03,040 --> 03:05:05,400
Speaker 1: the Arctic and kick their ass today.

3415
03:05:05,520 --> 03:05:06,160
Speaker 8: Fuck them up.

3416
03:05:06,480 --> 03:05:07,480
Speaker 1: Fuck that Island.

3417
03:05:07,879 --> 03:05:09,920
Speaker 2: Do trade with the penguin pay ten percent?

3418
03:05:10,000 --> 03:05:12,040
Speaker 1: Well yeah, send us a picture of you fighting a

3419
03:05:12,120 --> 03:05:14,240
Speaker 1: penguin and we'll get to make sure you get a

3420
03:05:14,240 --> 03:05:14,879
Speaker 1: hat or something.

3421
03:05:14,959 --> 03:05:15,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3422
03:05:15,200 --> 03:05:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll send you so much.

3423
03:05:17,400 --> 03:05:21,720
Speaker 5: We reported the news.

3424
03:05:23,480 --> 03:05:26,640
Speaker 1: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3425
03:05:26,720 --> 03:05:28,600
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3426
03:05:29,360 --> 03:05:32,000
Speaker 10: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 10: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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Speaker 10: foolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 10: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

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Speaker 10: now find sources for It Could Happen Here listened directly

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Speaker 10: in episode descriptions.

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Speaker 8: Thanks for listening.