1
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,880
Speaker 1: Hey, jorgey, have you seen a particle lying around here? Um?

2
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 1: Why did you lose one? Yeah? I had this new trino,

3
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 1: actually more than one, and what happened? You lost him? Yeah?

4
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,760
Speaker 1: It was here I turned around. You know exactly how

5
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,280
Speaker 1: many particles are you missing? Daniel? Let's see I want

6
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: to it was about sex tillion. How do you lose

7
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,239
Speaker 1: a sextillion particles? Well, actually it was one sextillion particles

8
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: per second. Daniel, you expect us to believe that you're

9
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:56,319
Speaker 1: not going to destroy the world with your physics experiments. Hi,

10
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm Jorge, I'm a cartoonists and the creator of PhD comments.

11
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,360
Speaker 1: Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I have

12
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,880
Speaker 1: not yet destroyed the world. And welcome to our new

13
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,959
Speaker 1: true physics crime podcast. Daniel and Jorge uncover mysteries of

14
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,600
Speaker 1: the universe and explain them, in which we hunt down

15
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: those responsible for the missing particles. That's right, And it's

16
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 1: always the last person you expect, or the last with

17
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,319
Speaker 1: the last force, the last fundamental force you expect. That's right.

18
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,320
Speaker 1: It was the butler in the library with the strong force.

19
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,960
Speaker 1: It was the butler with a particle collider using the

20
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 1: strong force. But welcome to our podcast, in which we

21
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 1: explore everything that's amazing about the universe, from space physics

22
00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: to particle physics and basically everything in between, including comics.

23
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 1: That's right, Welcome to Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

24
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio that includes apparently even comics.

25
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 1: I guess comics are part of the universe. Comics are

26
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 1: made of particles, just like everything else, are they, though?

27
00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 1: Are they more like an idea or an art? Is

28
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 1: art made out of particles? Art is just a concept

29
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 1: in your brain. Your brain is made of particles. So yeah,

30
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: basically it's math made out of particles. Okay, that's a

31
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,519
Speaker 1: deeper question, but our philosophy. Daniel and Jorge expound ignorantly

32
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 1: on philosophy. Daniel Jorge get derailed in the first few

33
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: minutes of every podcast. Jorge can't get to the topic

34
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 1: of explaining the universe within ten minutes. Well, let's get

35
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: into its. So today's podcast, we'll be talking about a

36
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 1: big mystery in physics, apparently one of the biggest mysteries

37
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 1: in particle physics. For a long time, you guys were

38
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,640
Speaker 1: wondering about this for a while. It seems. Yeah, we're

39
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 1: always looking for mysteries and particle physics, and a lot

40
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 1: of people in our field are focused on the heavy particles,

41
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: the new, the big, the fat stuff, the Higgs boson

42
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,080
Speaker 1: the top cork, the kind of stuff you need a

43
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,800
Speaker 1: lot of energy to make in particle colliders. But there

44
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 1: are also a lot of really interesting, fascinating puzzles about

45
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 1: the tiniest, the lightest, the weird, these little particles out there. Right, Yeah,

46
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm not on a diet. I just need to decay

47
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 1: some some heavy particles in my body, that's right. So

48
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,120
Speaker 1: this week we are cutting back on the rich diet

49
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,799
Speaker 1: of heavy particles we've been feeding you, and we will

50
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 1: be sprinkling you some salad of light particles. So this

51
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: was a mystery for a long time that you guys

52
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,920
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out, right, And it's a huge mystery. It's

53
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,640
Speaker 1: like sixtialing of these particles are missing every second. Yeah,

54
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,560
Speaker 1: I had to look that up. Sex tillion. That's ten

55
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 1: to the twenty and so ten to the twenty. It's

56
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 1: a big number. It's a hard number to even wrap

57
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 1: your head around, but that's the number of neutrinos that

58
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: hit the Earth every second, So then the podcast will

59
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: be tackling the topic the mystery of the missing neutrinos.

60
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,280
Speaker 1: And this is a classic story in experimental physics when

61
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 1: people thought they understood something basically how many neutrinos the

62
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 1: Sun makes and how many we should see here on Earth,

63
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: and then they went out to measure it and they

64
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,640
Speaker 1: didn't get the answer they expected, and so that was

65
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: a big puzzle for a long time. Right, I mean,

66
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 1: you guys basically deal with mysteries, right like when things

67
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 1: go missing. That's when you guys get it excited. Well,

68
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 1: I like to think that most of science is like

69
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 1: a detective story. You know, you're trying to put the

70
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,280
Speaker 1: pieces together. You're looking for the evidence, you see if

71
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 1: it fits. Sometimes you think maybe somebody's lied to you,

72
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 1: and you have to try to understand did you miss here?

73
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,120
Speaker 1: Is the evidence wrong? You need to re measure. So

74
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,560
Speaker 1: a lot of science is sort of like trying to

75
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 1: unravel a detective story. That's what's fun about it for me. Now,

76
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,159
Speaker 1: do you guys see yourselves more like you know, Humphrey

77
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 1: Boger type of detectives or more like a Jim Carrey

78
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,520
Speaker 1: as Van Toura type of detectives more like the Woody

79
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 1: Allen um, you know, not really understanding, worrying about imposter syndrome,

80
00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, trying to pretend to think of yourself as

81
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 1: Humphrey Bogard, but you dressed like as Jim Carrey. Would

82
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,279
Speaker 1: you look like Wooden? That kind of what I'm getting

83
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:07,960
Speaker 1: from you, and I get paid like none of them. No,

84
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,479
Speaker 1: but you're right, we are detectives of the universe. We

85
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,280
Speaker 1: are trying to understand the story of the universe. How

86
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,479
Speaker 1: this whole thing came together, how the holding fits together,

87
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. And you know, remember that science is

88
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 1: of the people, by the people, and for the people,

89
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,279
Speaker 1: and so the things we work on are the things

90
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: that get us interested so that we can tell a story,

91
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 1: so that we can try to find an interesting mystery

92
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,479
Speaker 1: to unravel, so that we can tell the story of

93
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 1: the universe. And so sometimes things go missing in this universe, right,

94
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,839
Speaker 1: like you think that there's something or you you according

95
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 1: to your math or your theories, you think that there

96
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 1: should be something there or used to see a lot

97
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,839
Speaker 1: of something, but you don't. And so that's a that

98
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,720
Speaker 1: kind of throws everything into question. Yeah, and it's sort

99
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: of good news and bad news. And we do this

100
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 1: a lot in science. We say, well, we predict that

101
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 1: if we make some measurement, you know, we know what

102
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,839
Speaker 1: we'll see. Like if you say, let's go count the

103
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,080
Speaker 1: number of red stars versus white stars. We think we

104
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: know the answer, let's just go check. And usually it's

105
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 1: a totally on You get the answer you expected, you

106
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 1: move on. But sometimes you don't get the answer you expected,

107
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 1: and that's either an amazing opportunity to learn something new

108
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,160
Speaker 1: about the universe or a huge headache. Yeah, and so

109
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: the mystery that we're talking about here today is that

110
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: you guys were expecting there to be a lot of

111
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 1: neutrinos somewhere, but they're they're not there. You're missing, Yeah, exactly.

112
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,680
Speaker 1: We know the Sun makes a huge number of neutrinos

113
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 1: and its fusion furnace, and a guy went out to

114
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: measure these things and they're really hard to spot, and

115
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: he saw a lot of neutrinos, but not nearly in

116
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: the number he expected. There was an enormous number of

117
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,479
Speaker 1: neutrinos missing, and so that was a mystery for a

118
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, Like you had some physics, it's a

119
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 1: math about the Sun that it should be spewing out

120
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 1: a ton of neutrinos, but we where are they? That

121
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 1: was the mystery. That was the mystery, And so I

122
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 1: was wondering, are people aware of this mystery? Do people

123
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 1: know how this work? And you know here you see, Irvine,

124
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: we have a special relationship with a neutrino. Do you

125
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 1: know why? Um? I do, because I'm an avid listener

126
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 1: of Daniel and Horry explain the universe for those of

127
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 1: you who are, and maybe you should explain. Well, the

128
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 1: guy who discovered the neutrino, Fred Ryness, was a professor

129
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: at u C Irvine, and he won the Nobel Prize.

130
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: And the building you work in, Daniel, is called after this. Yeah,

131
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,680
Speaker 1: it's called Ryness Hall. And I see a bust of

132
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 1: the guy in the lobby, and you know, there's a

133
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 1: huge picture of his experiment on the wall. And so

134
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,800
Speaker 1: I figured, well, most folks that you see Irvine must

135
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,679
Speaker 1: be aware. It's not like we're winning physics Nobel prizes

136
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 1: every week around here, and so you got one. You

137
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 1: should expect people to know, Yeah, exactly, And so I

138
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 1: thought people should know about this. Probably everybody around here

139
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,880
Speaker 1: knows all about neutrinos. So I walked around campus to

140
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 1: ask people if they knew what a neutrino was and

141
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 1: if they knew about the mystery and then missing neutrinos. Yeah,

142
00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 1: so before you listen to these answers, think about it

143
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 1: for a second. If someone asked you what a neutrino

144
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 1: is and whether you knew that a lot of them

145
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 1: are missing apparently, think about what you would answer. Here's

146
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,960
Speaker 1: what people had to say. Do you know what a

147
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 1: neutrino is? No? No, I have not. You know they

148
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 1: were discovered by a professor here at you see your vine. No,

149
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: I didn't women about No, I've never heard of yeah neutrino. Yeah,

150
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 1: I heard about it. I read about it. I mean

151
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: I read something about that in a Physics Building US

152
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 1: lecture hall um, But I can't remember. I know I

153
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: read that someone discovered it from here as an anti

154
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 1: neutrino or something like that. I have not. I've heard

155
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 1: of it. Do what it is? I've I've heard of it.

156
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 1: I don't know the specifics of what it is I have.

157
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 1: Do you know whether neutrinos can turn into other kinds

158
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: of neutrinos? No? I don't. All right, Daniel sounds like

159
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 1: you need to do a lot more branding work there

160
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,199
Speaker 1: at the university. I gotta say I was a little disappointed.

161
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I love the fact that these dedans are

162
00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,679
Speaker 1: willing to answer or a a question, that their game for it,

163
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 1: total respect for that. But almost nobody had even heard

164
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 1: of a neutrino. There was one guy who was like

165
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: something in the physics building. Maybe I think I read

166
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,559
Speaker 1: about it somewhere. Sounds like, you know, he was waiting

167
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: for the bathroom and killing time by reading a poster

168
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 1: or something. Oh, that's what you should do. You should

169
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 1: go around campus putting little like bumper stickers on the

170
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:26,560
Speaker 1: inside of bathroom stalls. That's where people do the most reading,

171
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,839
Speaker 1: probably if they look up from their phone, which is

172
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 1: kind of gross if you think about it. But let's

173
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 1: not think about that. Yes, so if you're listening to

174
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,480
Speaker 1: this podcast in a bathroom stall, you know, hey, think

175
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 1: about neutrinos instead. But hey, actually you're listening to this

176
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: podcast abound netrinos, so you're doing both at the same time.

177
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, maybe it would help if you change the

178
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 1: name of your building to the neutrino something like that.

179
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, perhaps perhaps Anyway, I apologize to fred

180
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 1: Ryness and the fred Ryness family because all the students

181
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: walk around campus have no idea about this incredible discovery

182
00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 1: made by physicist here on campus. That's okay, we are

183
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 1: going to educate everybody today about the amazing particle that

184
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: is the neutrino and the mystery of why they went missing.

185
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 1: And don't feel too bad. I didn't. I don't think

186
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,599
Speaker 1: I knew what a neutrina was until you know, I

187
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 1: started talking to you a couple of years ago. So

188
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,160
Speaker 1: it's not it's not an essential part of your diet,

189
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 1: I guess. No. You can mostly get on with your

190
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 1: life without knowing when antrino is, that's true. But you

191
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 1: are sort of bombarded by them a lot. Yeah, they're

192
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,080
Speaker 1: everywhere around you. There are a hundred billion neutrinos passed

193
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 1: through every square centimeter of the Earth per second. So

194
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: you hold out to your fingernail, that's like the size

195
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,559
Speaker 1: of your thumbnail. It's a hundred billion per second. Wow,

196
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: that's a lot of neutrinos in my thumb. It is

197
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,080
Speaker 1: a lot of neutrinos, and they're all pumped out from

198
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 1: the fusion in the sun, like the sun when it

199
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 1: does all that fusion. It combines all those elements to

200
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 1: make heavier and heavier elements. It pumps out a lot

201
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 1: of energy and a lot of that is in the

202
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 1: term of photons, but also neutrinos because this is fusion reaction,

203
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 1: so a lot of neutrinos are produced. Yeah, all right,

204
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 1: so let's get down into the details of it. So

205
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,200
Speaker 1: let's talk about what a neutrino even is before and

206
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,199
Speaker 1: then we'll talk about where why people thought they were

207
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 1: missing so many of them were missing. So, Daniel, what

208
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,679
Speaker 1: what is it? Neutrino? How would you describe what it is?

209
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,200
Speaker 1: It's a really weird little particle because it's an essential

210
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 1: part of our sort of periodic table of particles, but

211
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 1: it's not part of the atom. Like to make an atom,

212
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 1: you need quirks to make protons and neutrons, and then

213
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,440
Speaker 1: you need an electron to go around it to balance it.

214
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 1: Then there's this neutrino particle. What is it for? We

215
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,199
Speaker 1: don't really know why it exists. We found it, we

216
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: see that it's there. It's sort of bounces things out

217
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 1: a little bit, but it's not part of the atom,

218
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 1: like you are not made of neutrinos. You aren't. There

219
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 1: are no neutrinos in you. So it's something that can exist,

220
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 1: right basically, and does exist a lot in the in

221
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,400
Speaker 1: the universe, but it doesn't really interact with anything that

222
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: we're made out of, right, Like, it doesn't. You can't

223
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 1: really feel them, that's right. Neutrinos are very snobby, and

224
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 1: so you remember that there are several ways for particles

225
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,920
Speaker 1: to interact. They can interact via electromagnetism that's light, and

226
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 1: they can interact via the strong force that's gluons that

227
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,199
Speaker 1: holds a nucleus together. And then there's this other force,

228
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,319
Speaker 1: the weak nuclear force, which is really really weak. That's

229
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 1: the only force that neutrinos feel, right, And it's both

230
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: really weak and only really works if you're really really

231
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 1: close to it, right, Like if you're neutrina just happens

232
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 1: to pass very very near the nuclear of your atoms,

233
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,160
Speaker 1: then it might react with you, right, yeah, And you

234
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:36,840
Speaker 1: can think of the weak nuclear force is sort of

235
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 1: like another version of electromagnetism, but with a really heavy photon.

236
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: Like the photon, the real one, the one that makes

237
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 1: them light, has no mass. It flies across the universe,

238
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: it can go forever right, you shine a flashlight from here,

239
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 1: your photons can still be traveling billions and billions of

240
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,720
Speaker 1: miles away. But the weak nuclear forces like a version

241
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 1: of that with a really heavy, slow photon. And and

242
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,200
Speaker 1: so it's really think I've ever heard of that term before, Daniel,

243
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,679
Speaker 1: A heavy photon. Yeah, it's like a heavy photon. And

244
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 1: in fact, the weak forces you can have a heavy light. Yeah,

245
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,679
Speaker 1: I feel like that would be a great science fiction

246
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 1: novel title heavy light. Somebody out there copyr at that.

247
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 1: For us, it's like slow heavy light. And so it's weak,

248
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 1: and it's very short range. And so, as you were saying,

249
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 1: a neutrino can pass through an enormous amount of matter

250
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 1: without interacting, Like if it passes through a light year

251
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 1: of lead, that has a fifty percent chance of interacting.

252
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: Like you you send a hundred neutrinos through light year

253
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,199
Speaker 1: of lead, you get about fifty of them coming out

254
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 1: the other side not even noticing. Right, it doesn't feel

255
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 1: the electromagnetic force, which is what you would sort of

256
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 1: need to feel in order to like push my particles

257
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: or even for me to feel really sort of feel

258
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,120
Speaker 1: them in the traditional sense of the word of feeling

259
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,719
Speaker 1: or touching something. That's right. If you shoot an electron

260
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,480
Speaker 1: at a light year of lead, it will bounce off

261
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 1: the surface of it or get absorbed because they will

262
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,719
Speaker 1: interact with the other electrons, or it will interact with

263
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,719
Speaker 1: the atomic nucleus. And if you shoot a proton at

264
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 1: a piece of lead, it will interact with the atomic

265
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: nucleus via the strong force. But the neutrino doesn't feel

266
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: the strong force, and it doesn't feel electromagnetism too, so

267
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 1: they two strongest ways particles can interact. The neutrino doesn't

268
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 1: feel at all. It's like a little ghost particle flying

269
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 1: through the universe. And it's both a ghost and apparently

270
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: um a multifaceted ghost. Yeah. It comes in three flavors,

271
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 1: fruity ghosts and chocolate ghost and goes no, they're all

272
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 1: diet flavors. Remember this thing has no mass, right, it's heavy.

273
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 1: It's heavy. There's there's romaine, there's iceberg, and there's alfalfa

274
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 1: flavored calorie wise, it's the lettuce of particles. Yes, it's

275
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 1: the lettus of particles. Yeah, it's interesting because we have

276
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 1: we talked on the program once about how there's different

277
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: kinds of electrons. Is the electron, the one you know

278
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,880
Speaker 1: and love, that's part of you that makes up electricity,

279
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,200
Speaker 1: and then it has these cousins, the Muan and the tow.

280
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 1: So together there's three particles. We call them leapt the electron, Mwan,

281
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 1: and tow. The weird thing is the neutrinos also have

282
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 1: three versions, the electron neutrino, the muon neutrino, and the

283
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 1: town neutrino. So there's three kinds of neutrinos, just like

284
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 1: these three kinds of electrons. Now, why are they tied

285
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:15,920
Speaker 1: to the electron and the meu on and the town.

286
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 1: Couldn't just just call them, you know, romaine neutrino between

287
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 1: you know, I was at the meeting and I totally

288
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 1: suggested that and I was shot down. You know, They're like,

289
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,480
Speaker 1: you're just a lobbyist for big Salad, And hey, I

290
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 1: am a lobby salad. I am a big pro salad person,

291
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: all right, So but yeah, why are they sort of tied?

292
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 1: Why do we associate them with electrons? And that's really

293
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: fascinating because it turns out that each neutrino is a

294
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 1: different kind. And if you take a neutrino, we call

295
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 1: an electron neutrino and you interact with it using this

296
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 1: slow photon, the w boson. Then they can turn into

297
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 1: an electron, but a muon neutrino can only turn into

298
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,520
Speaker 1: a muon and a town neutrino can only turn into

299
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: a towel. And so these two talk to each other.

300
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: They're like paired, like the electro on and the electron

301
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 1: neutrino come together somehow. Um, they're like part of a grouping.

302
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 1: You know, we're always looking at particle physics for patterns

303
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 1: and organizations, and it turns out that these two are related,

304
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 1: and the muon and the muon neutrino related in the

305
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 1: town the town neutrino related. There's something about the universe

306
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 1: that that requires them to be connected, right, And you

307
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 1: associated them with electrons because they can sort of turn

308
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: into electrons or they sort of come from electrons or something.

309
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 1: There's some something that ties them together as opposed to

310
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 1: like tying them to like corks or something. Yeah, precisely,

311
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: you can use a w boson to turn an electron

312
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: neutrino into an electron, but you can't turn it into

313
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 1: a muan neutrino. And and there's something really weird about this,

314
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: Like the universe keeps count. For example, you can't turn

315
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: a mu on into an electron. The universe like has

316
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 1: account like the number of muans in the universe the

317
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: number of electrons in the universe, And you can't just

318
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: like take one from here and put it in the

319
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: other column. The universe doesn't let you do that. You

320
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: can't mix a match. You can't make some match like

321
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 1: you might imagine, Hey, take a mu on and turn

322
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: it in to an electron and a photon. Get rid

323
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: of that extra mass. There's nothing physically wrong with that.

324
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 1: We have no reason why that doesn't happen. We just

325
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,679
Speaker 1: don't see it, right. We just we've never seen that happen.

326
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 1: And so for some reason, the universe likes to keep

327
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 1: the same number of electrons and muans. They just can't

328
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: turn into each other. And we thought for a long

329
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 1: time that the same was true of neutrinos, that if

330
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: you had an electron neutrino, it had to be an

331
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 1: electron neutrino forever. You couldn't just turn it into a

332
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: muon neutrino. We thought the same rule that applied to

333
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: electrons also applied to neutrinos. Oh, I see, because electrons

334
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,920
Speaker 1: can't mix a match. You thought neutrinos couldn't mix a

335
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,400
Speaker 1: match between these three different kinds that it can take

336
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 1: the form of yeah, And that's what we're doing all

337
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 1: the time in physics. We're saying, here's a rule. How

338
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: broadly does that rule apply? Right? This rule seems to

339
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,239
Speaker 1: apply to electrons, mules, and taels for reasons we don't understand, Like,

340
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 1: we have no understanding for why you can't turn a

341
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 1: mu on into an electrono photon. We just don't see it.

342
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 1: It's just it's a descript and of what we haven't seen,

343
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,400
Speaker 1: not like a deep understanding of the universe. Maybe someday

344
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 1: somebody will come up with an explanation like, oh, it

345
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense because these things are built out of

346
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 1: different little you know, sub muans or something. I don't know.

347
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 1: But so we see that happening for electronic MUAs and towels,

348
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 1: and we thought maybe the same thing applied, right, all right,

349
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: So that's in a trino. It's this kind of snobby

350
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 1: particle that camp doesn't want to bother with us, apparently,

351
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,200
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't really like us, apparently, And so I just said,

352
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's there in the universe, floating all

353
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 1: around us, but it doesn't really interact with us. And um,

354
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: I think if you want to learn more, we have

355
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 1: an episode on the neutrino. Right, if you kind of

356
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: scroll through, there are archives and you'll you'll find the

357
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,480
Speaker 1: neutrino episode just on the neutrino. Yeah, sometime late last

358
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 1: year we put out a whole episode on the neutrino

359
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 1: and how it's discovered and what it means and how

360
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: it interacts and gory details about neutrinos. Right, all right,

361
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 1: so let's get into how you guys lost a six

362
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,879
Speaker 1: stillion of them per second in this universe. It was

363
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: before my time, so I don't know why you're putting

364
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 1: the blame on me. That's sorry. We'll lay out the

365
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 1: clues and the hints of the spoilers um of this mystery,

366
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 1: but first let's take a quick break. Al Right, So

367
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: we're surrounded by neutrinos and they're all around those but

368
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 1: they don't they can't touch us. But at some point,

369
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,880
Speaker 1: you guys physicists, you guys lost a lot of them,

370
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 1: like you didn't know where they were. I know, I

371
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 1: had them in my hand and then I put my

372
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 1: keys down and I turned around. You know, they were gone, Like,

373
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,239
Speaker 1: doesn't happen to you? And it's totally reasonable, right, did

374
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 1: you guys try to put it pussing an ad in

375
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: the back of like milk cartons or something. Yeah, we

376
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 1: just drew a blank box. Have you seen these neutrinos?

377
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: Have you seen this? Actually you can't see them. Have

378
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: you detected any with some heavy water by any chance? Well,

379
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: it's funny because you know, we are surrounded by neutrinos,

380
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 1: but they're not just sitting around. It's not like we're

381
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: swimming through them. We're not like in a pool of neutrinos.

382
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: It's more like we're in a wind of neutrinos. Oh,

383
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: I see, we're they're going through us. You know, they're

384
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 1: not they're not even stopping relating, hanging out. Yeah. They're

385
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 1: produced by the Sun and they shot out a great energies.

386
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 1: Something like three percent of the energy of the Sun

387
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: is pumped out just in terms of neutrinos. So that's

388
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: a lot of energy. Right. The Sun is a big blob.

389
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 1: It produces a lot of energy, and these are shot

390
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 1: out from the Sun and you know, neutrinos are very

391
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: light the way almost nothing, and so they're traveling at

392
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: nearly the speed of light. Probably, like looking at the Sun,

393
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 1: even three is enough to blind you, you know. Yeah,

394
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 1: if neutrinos could interact with your eyeballs, that they would

395
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: blind you. So don't So one more reason to not

396
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: be like President Trump and look at the Sun, especially

397
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 1: on an eclipse. Okay, so you guys calculated that the

398
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 1: Sun should be making a lot in neutrinos a hundred

399
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: billion per square centimeter per second on Earth. But um,

400
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: but we didn't see that. Like that's how much your

401
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: model of the sun predicted should be pumping out of

402
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: the Sun. How many neutrinos should be pumping out of

403
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: the Sun. But you're saying that the mystery was that

404
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: we didn't see any neutrinos like that here on Earth. Yeah,

405
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 1: and this started from like do we understand the sun?

406
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: Like we think we understand what's going on. There's all

407
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: these different elements in there. They're fusing. The fusion process

408
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: produces this and that and heat and neutrinos. So if

409
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: we understand the Sun, we should be able to check

410
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 1: those calculations. We should be able to run a calculation

411
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: that says how many neutrinos does the Sun produced per

412
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: second and then go out and measure it. And this

413
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: is not because people were interested in like the deep

414
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: particle physics of neutrinos. People thought, oh, yeah, we understand atrinos.

415
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: They just want to understand the Sun. And so they

416
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: predicted how many neutrinos the Sun should produce those hundred

417
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: billion per square centimeter per second, and then like looking

418
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: at the chemistry of it, right, like you know that

419
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: it's fusing hydrogen, and so you know what comes out

420
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: of that fusion should have these percentages of stuff coming out. Yeah,

421
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 1: and there's different mixtures and each element produces neutrinos and

422
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: different energies and all this stuff. And so put that

423
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: all together, it's called the standard Solar model. That's a

424
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: model for like what's cooking in the Sun and what's

425
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: what it's pumping out. A guy named John Bacall calculated

426
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: that he had his model of the Sun and he

427
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: predicted a hundred billion per square centimeter per second, and

428
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: then his colleague Ray Davis said, well, I'm gonna go check,

429
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: and so he built an experiment to go see neutrinos

430
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: and try to measure these things and calculate how many

431
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: neutrinos were actually flying into the earth. And he found

432
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: what a bloody knife for He has this crazy experiment

433
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: which involved a hundred thousand gallons of dry cleaning fluid.

434
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: And you know, when you're physicists, you have to sort

435
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: of make do, Like there's the experiment you wish you

436
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: could do, and then there's the experiment you can afford

437
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: to do. And usually what you can afford to do

438
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: relies on what's commercially available cheap. And you know, Americans

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: use a lot of dry cleaning fluid, so it's not

440
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: that expensive to buy a lot. Is not that expensive

441
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: to buy a big volume of dry cleaning fluid which

442
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: contains a lot of chlorine. Oh, the chlorine was important, yes,

443
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: because when an electron neutrino hits a chlorine atom, it

444
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: turns it into argon. This is like alchemy, right. There's

445
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: a neutron inside the chlorine nucleus, and when the neutrino

446
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: hits it, it turns it into a proton and an electron,

447
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: and the proton stays behind the chlorine turns into argon.

448
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: So if you have a huge vat of this dry

449
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: cleaning fluid. Then very occasionally one chlorine atom will get

450
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: turned into argon. Wait, so a hundred thousand gallons of

451
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: dry cleaning fluid was not his first choice. He had

452
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: in mind something even crazier. Oh man, it's super toxic.

453
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: You want to imagine working with that stuff. You probably

454
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: killed off a bunch of grad students and that experiment,

455
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: but they, you know, the body's worth resolved. Yeah, and

456
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: the living ones never had children. So, um, what do

457
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: you mean dry cleaning fluid? Is it like chloral chlorophy

458
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: phil what if? What if? Yes, it's chlorophyll exactly. It's

459
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: a pyro chloro floro carbon. No, No, I'm not sure

460
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: exactly what it was, but it's some hydrocarbon that has

461
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: a lot of chlorine in it and it's used typically

462
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: in commercial applications for dry cleaning. Um. But he just

463
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: had this enormous vat of it, a hundred thousand. And

464
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: remember that neutrinos. There's a lot of them, but each

465
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: one is a very small chance of interacting. So the

466
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: bigger your volume, the more likelihood you are to get

467
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: one of these chlorine atoms to turn into argon. So

468
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: he was just looking at a handful of things a

469
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: year of these events. Yeah, it's not like, you know,

470
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: you turn this thing on and you got chlorine popping

471
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: into argon every two seconds. You know, It's more like

472
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: once a month maybe if you're lucky. It's kind of

473
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: like a laying out a giant net, right, That's what

474
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: these giant vad was, right, which just like like a

475
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: catcher's mid for neutrinos, because neutrinos don't really interact with

476
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: the walls or the you know, the ground of the earth,

477
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: of the clouds of the atmosphere, but they do interact

478
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: kind of with chlorine atoms in a way that you

479
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: can observe. Yeah, they interact with all that other stuff too,

480
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: but just really rarely and chlorine atoms. You can get

481
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: a really pure sample that has almost no argon in it,

482
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: and the only way to turn chlorine into ar gon

483
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 1: basically is to hit it with a new trino. So

484
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: any are gone in there you can mostly assume came

485
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: from neutrinos. So that's why he chose that substance, and

486
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: then he could bubble it out every once in a

487
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: while and see if he found ar gone in there.

488
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: And how do you think he's sourced that hundred thousand

489
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: gallons of dry I think he had a front. He

490
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: just called the local local fashion cleaners and worlds like, hey,

491
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: can you do this tomorrow? No, he probably just drove

492
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: around to the dumpster behind the local dry cleaners and

493
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: just used theirs, you know, all right, So that's how

494
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: you that's how you measured. He measured. He put out

495
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: a giant vat of it try to catch them, and

496
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: he didn't see enough. He didn't catch enough to kind

497
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: of justify the model of the sun that we had. Yeah,

498
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: John McCall's calculation predicted a hundred billion per square centimeters

499
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: per second, and he did his calculation and integrated it

500
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: all and he got about a third of that value.

501
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: So he was so two thirds of the neutrinos were missing,

502
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: like an enormous number, sixty six billion per square centimeter

503
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: per second. We're just gone, just missing, just not there,

504
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: just not there. And so he went back to his

505
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: friend and said, did you check your calculations? Are you

506
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: sure the sun is pumping all those numbers out? Were

507
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: they friends? Were they? Yeah? They were friends? There they

508
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: were you know, this is a scientific collaboration. And they

509
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: both ended up with Nobel prizes, so everybody's happy. But

510
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: they he went back to checked his numbers, and you know,

511
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: with the sun, there are things you can observe the

512
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: solar model predicts also light and other things, and so

513
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways to check that his model

514
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: of the sun was right. And he went back and

515
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: he double checked everything, and he's like, you know, I'm

516
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: pretty sure my model of the Sun is correct. And

517
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: we had a pretty solid understanding of solar physics and

518
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: astrophysics at the time. So the question was then, see then,

519
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: like did you did you take did you make a

520
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: mistake in your um how many grad students did you

521
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: dissolve in the drug cleaning fluid did you use did

522
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: you use dry cleaning fluid or brand new dry cleaning fluid?

523
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: You know, well, that's why it's sometimes an amazing opportunity,

524
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: but also sometimes the headache, like sometimes the explanation is prosaic,

525
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: you know, like oops, you jiggled the cable and it

526
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: wasn't connected correctly and that's the source of every problem.

527
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: Or remember that new Trino experiment that thought they discovered

528
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: new trina is going faster than light. And then the

529
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: answer was wiring. Yeah, they didn't jiggle the cable correctly.

530
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: So often the mistake is just that there's simple as

531
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: a calculation or some other small bug. But sometimes it's

532
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: a big clue that that gives you insight into how

533
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: the universe works. And what do you think that moment was? Like?

534
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: You know, like if you expect to see you know,

535
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: if you expect your three kids to go home one day,

536
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: when only one of them comes home, you know, that's

537
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: a big well, it depends on which kid. I guess,

538
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: not your favorite one. Um no, I think it must

539
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: have been exciting. I think probably the first of his frustraants.

540
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: Ah man, something's wrong, you know. But we are detectives

541
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: in me and we like to unravel this stuff. We

542
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: like to think about ways to double check your answers,

543
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: and let's check this, and let's check that, and let's

544
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: check this other thing and everything. Everybody double checked it.

545
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 1: And then other people did experiments, you know, not just

546
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: this one guy with his vada experiment with his Vada fluid.

547
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: Other people did experiments with other substances, and everybody agreed.

548
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: We were seeing about one third of the neutrinos that

549
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: we expected to see. So somewhere between the Sun that

550
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, spewing out all of these neutrinos and your

551
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: vat of dry cleaning fluid, two thirds of those neutrinos

552
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: go missing, disappear exactly, have no alibi, all right. So

553
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: that so that was a big mystery in physics, and

554
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: it was it was a big deal, right, because it's

555
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: sort of you know, there's a lot in in this theory,

556
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: in this prediction, right, there's your understanding of the sun,

557
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: there's your understanding of particles, there's your understanding of how

558
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 1: particles interact with other particles, and so like, if this

559
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: is not jiving, then that's that's kind of a big deal. Yeah,

560
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: And it was an outstanding mystery for decades. It was like,

561
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: here's something we don't understand. Maybe somedays somebody will figure

562
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: it out, um, and so decades really for decades. Yeah,

563
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: Davis started his experiments in the sixties, and so this

564
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: is something which was an outstanding problem in physics for

565
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: a while. And you know, we have those problems today,

566
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: like a list of things we don't understand, like what

567
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: is dark matter. Eventually that will be a history problem,

568
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: all right, we'll know the answer and we'll look back,

569
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: but at the time it's just a question mark. And

570
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: so this was an open question for a long time.

571
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: I feel like it's one of those primetime specials, you know,

572
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: years later, the mystery still bothers him. I wish sometimes

573
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: we could just like fast forward, do a musical montage,

574
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: like like a musical montage my way to the answer

575
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: what is dark matter? She has some physicist hitting the

576
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: boxing um what we called the boxing ball, putting on

577
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: a lab coat, standing at the chalkboard, looking confused, having

578
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: a moment of inspiration running Philadelphia Courthouse guests exactly, low,

579
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: please provide the sound music for that musical montage. But yeah,

580
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: and then finally the mystery was solved. Right, finally, you

581
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: guys figured it out. They found the missing nutrinas we

582
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: did find the missing neutrinos. All right, let's get into

583
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: how they found these missing neutrinos. But first let's take

584
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: another quick break. All right, Daniels, how did they find

585
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: the missing six dillion neutrinos per second that were somehow

586
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: misplaced by physicists. Well, they had this idea. They thought, well,

587
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: maybe then trinos aren't missing, maybe they're just hiding, and

588
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: maybe they're hiding because they turned into other types of neutrinos.

589
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: And we talked earlier about how there's three kinds of

590
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: neutrinos electrons, muans, and towels, and they thought, well, what

591
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: if some of these are turning into muan neutrinos or

592
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: some of these are turning into town neutrinos. Oh my god,

593
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: they faked their death. That is such a standard opera

594
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: plot points. Should have been the first thing we thought of, Right,

595
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: did you look for neutrino with a weird mustache on it,

596
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: check to see if they had they had any large

597
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: outstanding debts or something. Yeah, Well, we thought, remember, well,

598
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: we're sure that electrons and muans can't turn into each other.

599
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: We know that doesn't happen. We don't know why, but

600
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: we've never seen it happen. Dedicated experiments looking for that

601
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. But people thought, you know, we could

602
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: explain this mystery if if electron neutrinos were turning into

603
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: muans and tows wouldn't another kind of neutrino interact with chlorine? Also, like,

604
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: how does that explain? No, it wouldn't. So a muan

605
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: neutrino that comes and hits the chlorine, doesn't turn it

606
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: into argon. What does it do something different or it

607
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: just doesn't interact with the chlorine. It doesn't interact with

608
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: the chlorine in a way that turns into argons. You

609
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: can't measure muan neutrinos or town neutrinos um by looking

610
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: at chlorine. And so what people did was they built

611
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: another experiment, one that was sensitive to muans and one

612
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: that was sensitive to town neutrinos. So there's an experiment

613
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: called the Snow experiment. It was at Submarine Neutrino Observatory

614
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: and it could detect separately the rates of electron muan

615
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: and town neutrinos. And then they found them. And then

616
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: they found them, They're like, uh, there they are. We

617
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: saw them, these neutrinos. So you use your credit card.

618
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: You're still alive. Precisely, they were able to spot them

619
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: into those neutrinos are they're They're just a different flavor.

620
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: So there's a bunch of neutrinos coming from the Sun.

621
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: Some of them turned into different kinds of neutrinos, and

622
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: then they go through us and the Earth. And you're

623
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: saying that they were only missing because we weren't looking

624
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: for the right kind of neutrino precisely. And it's important

625
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: to understand the Sun only makes electron neutrinos. There's three

626
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: different kinds where the Sun just makes electron it's like

627
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: a pure source of electron neutrinos because you have electrons

628
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: and fusion, right, the electrons with the lightest ones, and

629
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: so electrons are the thing that's in the atom, and

630
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: so electron neutrinos or what's made in the sun. So

631
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: the Sun produces all these electron neutrinos. But then there's

632
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: three kinds, and so by the time they get here,

633
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: they sort of sloshed around and some of them become

634
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: muns and some of them become town neutrinos. Right, And

635
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: they do this randomly or is it like a their

636
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: decay from like an energy high energy state to a

637
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: lower energy state or is it just kind of random?

638
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: Like do they I want to? I feel like more

639
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: like a towel. Is that how you get dressed every day?

640
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: So sort of randomly quantum mechanical wardrobe to I feel

641
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: like the working cartoon is tomorrow. I don't know if

642
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: you just invented quantum fashion. Jorge, Yeah, um, though it's

643
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: not entirely random, there's some random element to it, but

644
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: it's actually really fascinating and reveals something really deep about neutrinos.

645
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: You see, the weak force the thing that can interact

646
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: with neutrinos. It sees neutrinos differently than the Higgs boson does.

647
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: So those w bosons and the Higgs bosons are sort

648
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: of disagreeing about how to talk to the neutrinos. Wait,

649
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: what what do you mean? Yeah, well, so the weak

650
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: force says, okay, there's three kinds of neutrinos. There's electron neutrinos, mionutrinos,

651
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: and town neutrinos. And like I said earlier, the difference

652
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: between those is that the weak force can turn an

653
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: electron neutrino into an electron or a muon neutrino into

654
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: a muon. That's how the weak force sees neutrinos. But

655
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: the Higgs boson comes along and it says, no, no, no,

656
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: there's three neutrinos. There's numbers one, two, and three, the

657
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: lightest one, the medium one, and the heaviest one. And

658
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, that's cool, which one is which? But

659
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: it turns out they don't overlap. It's not like neutrino

660
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 1: number one is the electron neutrino, and two number two

661
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: who is the muon neutrino the Higgs boson. What it

662
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: says electron number one, it means a weird mixture of electron,

663
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: muon and taw, and the Higgs boson neutrino number two

664
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: is a different mixture of electron, muon and tao. So

665
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: it's like these things look at it totally differently. They

666
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: see a different mixture. Are they still different things or

667
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: does it depend on who's interacting with them. It depends

668
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: on who's interacting with it. So if you're just flying

669
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: through space, what you need is to have a certain mass,

670
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: Like for a particle to fly through space, you need

671
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: to be a thing. You need to have a fixed mass.

672
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: Your mass can be zero or whatever, like for a photon,

673
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: but for any particle to propagate through space, it needs

674
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: to have its mass specified. Remember that's how you get

675
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: masses by moving through the Higgs field. So the Sun

676
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: makes you using the weak interaction. You're an electron neutrino,

677
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: you're flying through space, you have mass because of the

678
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: Higgs boson, and then you're either electron one, two or three, right,

679
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: But the electron neutrino is a weird mixture of one, two,

680
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: and three. So as it's flying through ace, these things

681
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: fly through space differently. The electron one, electron two, electron

682
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: three parts of the electron neutrino fly through space differently,

683
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: So by the time they get to Earth, you have

684
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: a different mixture of electron one, two, and three. And

685
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: maybe you're amuan neutrino or maybe your town neutrino. Wow,

686
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: that makes no sense, Daniel. So I start off as

687
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: one kind of netrino and you're saying that on the way,

688
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: the universe just kind of like looks at me differently.

689
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: And by the time I get to my destination and

690
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: two different things. Say your family goes on a trip together,

691
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: and one of you is thirsty and one of you

692
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: is hungry, and one of you is totally satisfied. Now

693
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: along the way, maybe you get some food and drink.

694
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: So by the time you get your location, the different

695
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: people in your family are feeling different than when they

696
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: left because the trip has been a different experience for

697
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: each of you. So by the time you get there,

698
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: it's kind of like you're a different family. But that's

699
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: because like time has passed and maybe I got thirstier

700
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: or hungrier, or I drank some water on the way.

701
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: Is there something actually happened on the way for these

702
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: neutrinos or is it just kind of like a the

703
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: universe sort of corrects itself, and the different parts of

704
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: the electron neutrino fly through space differently because they have

705
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: different masses. The electron neutrino doesn't actually have like a

706
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: mass like you can say with the mass of the

707
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: electron is but the electron neutrino doesn't have a mass.

708
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 1: It's a weird mixture of three neutrinos that do have masses.

709
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: So there's a different categorization, like a different set of

710
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: names based on the Higgs. Yes, there's different ways to

711
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: categorize neutrinos, and the Higgs boson categorizes them one way

712
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: and the weak force categorizes them differently. They don't agree.

713
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: And the Higgs force decides how you get mass, and

714
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: so it says you get this mass, you get that mass,

715
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: you get this other mass, and the weak force decides

716
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: what particle you turn into, like you turn into electron,

717
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: you turn into new and you turn into a tow

718
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: and because they don't agree, you get these really weird behaviors.

719
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: But then what comes out the other what arise here

720
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: on Earth is actually two different Is it still the

721
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: same electron neutrino or is it now something that's been

722
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 1: changed because of the what happens when you go through

723
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: the actual universe, it's something that's been changed. And so

724
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: electron neutrina starts out with some mixture of of neutrino one, two,

725
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: and three, and then those fly through space differently because

726
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: they have different masses, and by the time it gets here,

727
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: it's a different mixture, and that different mixture can be

728
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: more likely to be a muan neutrino. So then when

729
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: it gets to Earth it can be like, oh you

730
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: know what, now I'm the meu and neutrino. But when

731
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: it interacts with like argone than it does care whether

732
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: it's precisely then it does care. And so when they

733
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: it cares at the beginning at the end. But the

734
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: suwhere in the middle of the universe is like no, no, no, no, no,

735
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: I don't I don't like what you're starting out with.

736
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change up your identity. Yeah, it's like it

737
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: spins all the knobs in flight, and then when you

738
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: get here you're like, huh, you're totally different. You know.

739
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: It's like if everybody got an airplane and then in

740
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 1: flight you like swapped heads and legs of all the passengers, right,

741
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: and then when you got the other to the flight,

742
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: you'd be like, wow, I don't recognize anybody. That is

743
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: both disturbing and also confusing. It's is it more like

744
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, like um, like shooting light

745
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: through a prism or something like somehow going through the

746
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: medium separates out the nature of it. Yeah, it's it's

747
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: a lot like that. Um. And for those people who

748
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: are like really good with linear algebra, it's essentially what

749
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: you're doing is you're rotating the basis set. You have

750
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: a different eigenvectors that describe the sort of space of particles,

751
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: and the Higgs boson uses one set of eigenvectors and

752
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: the weak forces a different set, and they don't agree,

753
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: so you can rotate from one to the other. And

754
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: why is there such a discrepancy between what the universe

755
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: sees or things and what the math and the physics

756
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: and the collisions all predict. We don't know. We don't

757
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: know why the weak force and the Higgs boson see

758
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: these things differently. It's fascinating. We just don't know why

759
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: they don't agree. They're very different forces, right, and so

760
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: they I guess they have the right to make whatever

761
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: choice they like, But we don't know. We don't know.

762
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: I um they're rotated in this way, like why neutrinos one, two,

763
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: and three are not aligned with the electron, muon and

764
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: town neutrinos because it's not the case for the other particles,

765
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: like the EMU and tao. The weak force interacts with

766
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: them the same way the Higgs boson does. Like the

767
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: electron has a specific mass, the muon has a specific mass,

768
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: and so does the too. So it's a weird twist

769
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: that only happens for neutrinos. It's like in the Murder Mystery,

770
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: it's like, no, actually turned out nobody killed Mr Green.

771
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: Actually he turned into Mrs Mrs Plum. Turns out Mr

772
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: Green has two identical twins or a member of identical triplets,

773
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: and they all speak weird accents, and due to some

774
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: magical or unexplainable quantum phenomenon of the universe that's what happened. Yeah,

775
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: and it's not something we understand, and we actually don't

776
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: even understand how the neutrinos talked to the Higgs boson,

777
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: Like most particles get their mass from the Higgs boson,

778
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: but we don't actually know the neutrinos do, because that

779
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: to get your mass from the Higgs boson, you have

780
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: to have a particle and an antiparticle, like the electron

781
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: and the anti electron. But we don't know if neutrinos

782
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: have antiparticles or if they are their own antiparticles the

783
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: way a photon is. So there's a lot of mysteries

784
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: about neutrinos. I feel like we started out with such

785
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: an um simple mystery where are they? And we've turned

786
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: out like turning into a fundamental mystery of the universe

787
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: that we don't know precisely. And that's what's amazing about

788
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: these experimental checks. You know, they go out there like, yeah,

789
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: we think we understand this, let's just go double check.

790
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: Huh didn't work. I wonder what that means? Dot dot

791
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: dot crack open deep mystery of the universe. Right, that's

792
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: the possibility every time you're about to do a boring

793
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: experiment is that it could be the thread that unravels

794
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: your entire understanding of something fundamental about the universe. And

795
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: you wouldn't maybe think that was the case, just because

796
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: these particles are so inconsequential to our everyday lives, right,

797
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: so non interactive with everything else. But it turns out

798
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: then maybe cracking them open what tell us a lot

799
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: about the universe. Yeah, they are. There are a lot

800
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: of them, and they ignore, but they have a lot

801
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: of tiny little clues and when you add them all up,

802
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: they tell you something really fascinating about how the universe works.

803
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of mysteries there. We still don't

804
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: know the answer to um. There might be CP violation

805
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: in neutrinos, to all sorts of weird stuff. But they're

806
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: really challenging to measure because they mostly ignore you, and

807
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,919
Speaker 1: so you have to build really big detectors and wait

808
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: a long time just to do anything basically with neutrinos.

809
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: Is this going to drive out the price of my

810
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: drug cleaning? Daniel? Is what I is? How I wouldn't know.

811
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: Let's bring this back to me, right. I have seen

812
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: sort of a lot of like a lot of particle physics.

813
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: I know in your field is sort of turning towards

814
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: neutrinos because it is sort of like a place where

815
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: there are still a lot of big open questions. Yeah,

816
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: the entire United States high energy community is turning towards neutrinos,

817
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: focusing their energy on these questions because we think that

818
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 1: there are a lot of mysteries there that might be open.

819
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: In fact, there probably are still questions we don't even

820
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: know how to ask about neutrinos. It's like the beginning

821
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: of a field uh neutrino physics. So there's a bright future.

822
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people working on it, a lot

823
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: of really fascinating questions, and I think in ten years

824
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: will know a lot more about the way the whole

825
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: universe works, just from these tiny, little ghostly particles. All Right,

826
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: so we we figured out the mystery, Daniel, we will

827
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: take credit. What fraction the Nobel Prize did we get

828
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 1: I don't remember, as John Renes with the weak fours

829
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: in the in the Mysterious Force, in the Underground lab

830
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: the Unknown, Deep Mystery of the Universe. It was Ray

831
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: Davis with a hundred thousand gallons of dry cleaning underground.

832
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: So the next time you look out into the universe

833
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: or see will not see this time, but be out

834
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: on a sunny day and look the sunlight all around you.

835
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: Maybe think about all the mysterious little neutrinos that are

836
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: going through you and everything else, and what secrets of

837
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: the universe they are hiding. We hope you enjoyed that.

838
00:43:51,160 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time. Before you

839
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: still have a question after listening to all these explanations,

840
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: please drop us the line. We'd love to hear from you.

841
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at

842
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge That's one Word, or email us at

843
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Thanks for listening

844
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

845
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

846
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

847
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.