Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. What's the best preschool tip that you've given?
Speaker 2: The tip that I would give people most raising preschool
Speaker 2: kids is keep a twinkle in your heart. Keep a
Speaker 2: sense of humor. These stages will pass. They're okay, You're okay. Smile,
Speaker 2: it's okay.
Speaker 1: If that isn't a tip for life, I don't know
Speaker 1: what is. Hello, everybody, Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I
Speaker 1: have been trying to get today's guest on for a
Speaker 1: long time, and she is busy. She is just so busy,
Speaker 1: going in the homes of toddlers everywhere and helping children
Speaker 1: and parents on all all sorts of things. I know
Speaker 1: her because she was Albi's toddler and me teacher, and
Speaker 1: she is literally a toddler whisperer. I have never met
Speaker 1: a woman like this who also makes mothers and fathers
Speaker 1: and caretakers and child specialists feel at ease at all times.
Speaker 1: And I really think you're all going to benefit from
Speaker 1: her vast amount of knowledge but also just her person.
Speaker 1: Her name is Carol Provost. She's here to talk preschool
Speaker 1: nursery school transition to kindergarten tips, which I have got
Speaker 1: a lot of questions about that. Carol Provost has worked
Speaker 1: for over forty years as an early childhood educator, parent
Speaker 1: support expert, and child development specialist. She has advised administrators
Speaker 1: over the years in cultivating play based, developmentally appropriate curriculum
Speaker 1: for preschoolers. She has also spent countless hours training preschool
Speaker 1: teachers and considers good quality early childhood education fundamental for
Speaker 1: a functional society. Carol has also provided in home support
Speaker 1: for children struggling with a variety of issues, including separation, anxiety,
Speaker 1: toileting difficulties, and delayed social skills. She is currently offering
Speaker 1: parental support via telephone or zoom appointment and continues to
Speaker 1: offer in home support for children and their families in
Speaker 1: the San Fernando Valley. Carol, Oh, I am like literally
Speaker 1: emotional that you are here today, Welcome to Katie's crib.
Speaker 1: I am just so excited you're here. There is no
Speaker 1: one like you. You are one of a kind. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: She's the person everyone listening who like the toddlers are
Speaker 1: just like fighting to sit on her.
Speaker 2: Lap and I miss that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. I'm so happy you're here. Thank
Speaker 1: you for taking the time. Can you first tell us
Speaker 1: how did you get into the early childhood development field.
Speaker 2: I think it started with the fraud relationship I had
Speaker 2: with my own mother perfect, and I think I grew
Speaker 2: up as I got older and started to think about it.
Speaker 2: I really didn't know if she really didn't have capacity
Speaker 2: and shouldn't have had children, or she didn't have help
Speaker 2: and support that might have helped. Because I was born
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty two.
Speaker 1: You look great, Carol, Thank you.
Speaker 2: I'll be eighty one.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you look amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you. But times were different then, and the advice
Speaker 2: was different then, things like feeds your child every four
Speaker 2: hours and not a minute before because they have to
Speaker 2: be on a schedule. I was born a four pound
Speaker 2: baby and four hours was too long to wait, so
Speaker 2: I was upset infant, and she didn't have any skills
Speaker 2: or support to handle such a thing. And that continued
Speaker 2: through my whole life. And the family's story was kind
Speaker 2: of your sister was the easy one, but my sister
Speaker 2: also has stuff.
Speaker 1: It just was tough.
Speaker 2: So I always had an interest in it. When I
Speaker 2: went to school, I actually got both a bachelor's and
Speaker 2: a master's degree in theater. Then I got into child development.
Speaker 2: I kind of wasted my education, but the truth is
Speaker 2: the master's in directing made me a better nursery school
Speaker 2: teacher because I knew what a set should look.
Speaker 1: Like, and you also know how to herd cat.
Speaker 2: Right, what a room should look like. I knew what
Speaker 2: the hum of kids playing, when it worked and when
Speaker 2: it didn't, what the pace was like. So it wasn't
Speaker 2: a waste and one of the first jobs, because in theater,
Speaker 2: your first jobs are not in.
Speaker 1: Theater, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: And so I got a job at the Children's Centers
Speaker 2: of Los Angeles and got very interested in what they
Speaker 2: were doing from my point of view wrong. I went
Speaker 2: back and took many classes of extra education from UCLA
Speaker 2: Extension and got my child development specialist authorisation and never
Speaker 2: looked back. It became a passion to make things better
Speaker 2: for moms and kids.
Speaker 1: Carol, I'm telling you, I didn't even understand how important
Speaker 1: in early childhood life and education and development, any of
Speaker 1: it really was until I started touring nursery schools. Really,
Speaker 1: people thought I was overdoing it. I think I looked
Speaker 1: at like sixteen nursery schools. But it wasn't because in
Speaker 1: all honesty, because I wanted LB to get into this
Speaker 1: or that or whatever. It was mostly because I was
Speaker 1: educating myself. I didn't know what my style was. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what kind of set like you're speaking of
Speaker 1: really spoke to me and my child, which was where
Speaker 1: we crossed paths, and I feel so so lucky that
Speaker 1: we did. What do you tell moms that you're working
Speaker 1: with to do about tantrums? Let's say let's start there.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm sure, sorry, so much fun, aren't they? They're triggering,
Speaker 2: they're difficult. First, I'm going to say to you, reframe it.
Speaker 2: Your child is in giving you a hard time. They're
Speaker 2: having a hard time. It's a very different way to
Speaker 2: look at it. They're overwhelmed, their little brains are trying
Speaker 2: to do so much. They get sensory overload, they get
Speaker 2: exhausted from a day of trying to socialize, and where
Speaker 2: they feel safest is at home with you, and they
Speaker 2: melt yes. And so your job as a parent or
Speaker 2: a caretaker at school is to meet their chaos with
Speaker 2: your calm. So that means regulate yourself. I always liked
Speaker 2: I've read somewhere about the acronym stop like a stop sign,
Speaker 2: and it means stop, take a breath, observe, and then proceed.
Speaker 1: Oh my, by the way, this works with adult Yes,
Speaker 1: yes it does. I think when you realize what is superpower,
Speaker 1: it is. Look, I think mom's listening. I try very
Speaker 1: hard to meet a tantrum. I always think of, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I yawn, he's gonna yawn, right if he yawns
Speaker 1: ee yon. So if he's freaking out, then I'm going
Speaker 1: to freak out and escalates his freak out, which escalates
Speaker 1: my freak out. And I've had enough tantrums to know
Speaker 1: if I can just stay as regulated as possible for me,
Speaker 1: what I've noticed is it lessens the time of the
Speaker 1: whole ordeal. Look, I'm not perfect. There have totally been
Speaker 1: times where it's also felt wildly good to just lose
Speaker 1: my collective shit for a second. But and then I
Speaker 1: apologize because I really don't want to meet his tantrum,
Speaker 1: like I am an irrational thinking adult.
Speaker 2: But what you just said is very important. There's always
Speaker 2: room for repair. Your child is always going to wake
Speaker 2: up the next morning totally in love with you and
Speaker 2: wanting it to be better. So when everybody's calmed down
Speaker 2: a sincere apology, I'm not proud of the way I
Speaker 2: handled that. I got too mad. I'm going to work
Speaker 2: on that. Teaches them strategies to do the same.
Speaker 1: Thing that's exactly right. And we've had doctor Dan Siegel
Speaker 1: on who my parents actually did that. I don't think
Speaker 1: they knew what they were doing, but my dad was
Speaker 1: one of those guys who if we got into something,
Speaker 1: or please go to your room and think about what
Speaker 1: you've done type of thing. As a teenager, I have
Speaker 1: such distinct memories of him coming in my room and
Speaker 1: then sitting on the end of my bed and us
Speaker 1: like talking about what had happened, and it always ended
Speaker 1: up with him in tears because he's sort of emotional,
Speaker 1: and he would just be like, Okay, do you feel good.
Speaker 1: I feel good, Let's have a hug, let's say we're sorry.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if he knew what he was doing,
Speaker 1: but we have a wonderful relationship, and I feel like
Speaker 1: so much of that is because it wasn't perfect, but
Speaker 1: we were very good at letting things zimmer, talking about
Speaker 1: them after apologizing and feeling repaired, which I do with
Speaker 1: my kids a.
Speaker 2: Lot, exactly. It's the most important thing. It teaches them
Speaker 2: how to do the same thing that will help them
Speaker 2: to have healthy relationships going forward.
Speaker 1: And what do you think I mean? This is such
Speaker 1: a hot button topic about discipline and oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: like timeouts, grounding. Obviously anything physical is a no note,
Speaker 1: but anything in that world you could advise on.
Speaker 2: Absolutely to think of discipline as teaching, not punishment. Discipline
Speaker 2: is a chance to teach somebody coping skills during a
Speaker 2: hard time. Timeouts I really don't like, because when a
Speaker 2: child needs you most is when they have melted down
Speaker 2: or acting out, and when you isolate them with that,
Speaker 2: with the shame of that. It's not a way to regulate.
Speaker 2: It's a way to shut down and become depressed. You
Speaker 2: may think that's compliance, but there's a price to pay
Speaker 2: for that. If a child is acting out, they're telling
Speaker 2: you they need your super ego to sustain theirs till
Speaker 2: they can regain their ability to calm and proceed. And
Speaker 2: so what I like is time in. But again, what
Speaker 2: you have to do is regulate yourself so that you
Speaker 2: can handle it. You might have to take a minute,
Speaker 2: you might have to say to your child, I'm getting
Speaker 2: too mad, I'm too grumpy right now, I'm going to
Speaker 2: go to the bathroom, or I'm going to go into
Speaker 2: my room for a minute and I'm going to calm
Speaker 2: down so that we can work this out. And then
Speaker 2: you do that and come back and say, today is
Speaker 2: a day when you don't seem to be able to
Speaker 2: keep your hands from hitting other kids. So come hold
Speaker 2: mine and we're gonna do play doough together, or we're
Speaker 2: going to make a cake or whatever it is so
Speaker 2: they can work out some of that stuff. And in
Speaker 2: the process of doing that, you're letting the child know
Speaker 2: that you're here for them, that they seem to have
Speaker 2: lost their balance for a minute, emotional balance, and you're
Speaker 2: there to provide yours. So you know, the same thing
Speaker 2: is we say all the time, put your oxygen mask
Speaker 2: on first.
Speaker 1: Right, stop with whatever the stop means.
Speaker 2: Stop exactly, stop, take a breath, observe, and proceed the observing.
Speaker 2: The observation is what's going on? Is he hungry? Is
Speaker 2: she tired?
Speaker 1: They get a bad night's sleep.
Speaker 2: Has school just been too long? Too many transitions today?
Speaker 2: Maybe there's so they're not going to tell you about it.
Speaker 2: At the time of the melt or the acting out.
Speaker 2: They don't have access to cognitive abilities in those times.
Speaker 2: The chemicals in the brain that get downloaded, as Stan
Speaker 2: Siegel will tell you, makes it impossible for them to
Speaker 2: take in cognitive information. So don't try.
Speaker 1: Oh, I remember my marriage. I was like, our marriage
Speaker 1: is not going to survive this if he's trying to
Speaker 1: have a teachable moment in the midst of a meltdown,
Speaker 1: Like I was like, please, this is not for him.
Speaker 1: This must be for you, Adam, my husband, this is
Speaker 1: and this is a product of how your parents were
Speaker 1: drilling things of right and wrong into your head when
Speaker 1: you were freaking out. But I'm like, we can't. He's
Speaker 1: not able to right now. Right now is just about
Speaker 1: how do we regulate? Is that a time in for me,
Speaker 1: because it most of the time is so that I
Speaker 1: can handle it once the calm has happened, like maybe
Speaker 1: we can hold hands or have a hug or have
Speaker 1: a cuddle or draw something.
Speaker 2: And then later maybe another time talk about it. I'm
Speaker 2: going to tell the story. This is what happened. You
Speaker 2: got so mad, you threw your plate on the floor.
Speaker 2: I got crumpy, and we both were mad, and then
Speaker 2: we got a hug. We calmed down. Now we're reading
Speaker 2: stories and everything's okay, because that's what families do. They
Speaker 2: make everything okay.
Speaker 1: Ah, And let me tell you something. Carol's daughter, Alexis
Speaker 1: is also a mom that I'm very close to, and
Speaker 1: she is wonderful. So I have first hand experience. If
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: and like I don't have the patience or the time
Speaker 1: to really do this. First of all, when you reframe
Speaker 1: your mind, it is very easy in my experience, and
Speaker 1: my son was not a piece of pie at all.
Speaker 1: He is not, and it's what I love most about him.
Speaker 1: But seeing Alexis as a full grown adult who is
Speaker 1: Carol's daughter, and seeing Alexis's daughter Carol's grandkids, I'm like,
Speaker 1: they are wonderful, fulfilled human beings. So I have firsthand knowledge,
Speaker 1: y'all that this is working.
Speaker 2: Except that I want you to do. That's not what
Speaker 2: it looked like when Alexis was in preschool, she was
Speaker 2: a highly spirited kid. I had absolutely no idea. I'm
Speaker 2: sure I made a million mistakes, some huge that I'll
Speaker 2: never forget, and somehow for one thing, you know, so
Speaker 2: what helped repair so much of that being a grandparent,
Speaker 2: because it's so different, and I think for your kids
Speaker 2: that you made a lot of mistakes with when they
Speaker 2: see you repairing it through their children and by being
Speaker 2: there for their children in a different way, it goes
Speaker 2: back and repairs not only your own little childhood it
Speaker 2: get maybe treated that way, but also for your children.
Speaker 2: It means that there's repair possible in life. And what
Speaker 2: I can say about Alexis is your spirited children may
Speaker 2: tax you to the core, but their world changers. They
Speaker 2: will fight for justice, they will raise valued human beings,
Speaker 2: and that's what you want in what's become a very
Speaker 2: tough world.
Speaker 1: I love hearing this. I'm having this memory of coming
Speaker 1: into toddler class that you were facilitating, and I was
Speaker 1: so upset because I'll be is a very spirited child.
Speaker 1: I just spent so many times of the three and
Speaker 1: four year old years like heavily negotiating with a like
Speaker 1: a lawyer. I'm such a people pleaser, and I mean,
Speaker 1: he's literally my perfect opposite match, this child, and he
Speaker 1: is not conflict averse. He is very stubborn and strong
Speaker 1: willed and opinionated and loved to negotiate and loud, and
Speaker 1: he hit a lot of children, and I was panicked.
Speaker 1: I was so panicked, and I came to you and
Speaker 1: I told you these things. You were so not worried,
Speaker 1: and that made me not worried. And it just you
Speaker 1: were like just very no held space for exactly who
Speaker 1: he is. And I'll never forget it. I was so appreciative,
Speaker 1: and I think actually what you said was you know
Speaker 1: that there's things too. Obviously every parent has concerned, but
Speaker 1: even the parents especially who have children who might be listening,
Speaker 1: who are very shy, who don't speak up for themselves,
Speaker 1: or who are very slow to warm, and things like that,
Speaker 1: your child is who they are, and you're always like
Speaker 1: terrified about giving them the tools they're going to need
Speaker 1: to get through it.
Speaker 2: Right. I actually worry a little bit more about the
Speaker 2: shutdown kids than I do about the spirited kids, because
Speaker 2: they're going to take on the world and injustice and
Speaker 2: fight for their children and in ways that in the
Speaker 2: end are going to serve them so well. But I
Speaker 2: think what helps a shy child is acceptance that they're observers.
Speaker 2: My son is very different from his sister and he's
Speaker 2: also a wonderful human being of whom I'm immensely proud.
Speaker 2: But he always observed, and I used to say he
Speaker 2: didn't do anything till he thought he could look cool
Speaker 2: doing it. So he was late to walk, and he
Speaker 2: did a lot of I remember his little sister would
Speaker 2: go down the scary pole in the park when he
Speaker 2: still was afraid to do it. There's a picture I
Speaker 2: have of them as very young children where he's bent
Speaker 2: over and looking worried and anxious, and his little sister
Speaker 2: has got him by the hand and she's strutting down
Speaker 2: the beach and she's got him there, very close to
Speaker 2: the stay. But that was a very different temperament. He
Speaker 2: needed much smaller corrections. And when I had Alexis, it
Speaker 2: was so different. I thought, you can't judge a parent
Speaker 2: for being a good er bad parent based on one child,
Speaker 2: because they're gonna get you with the next ones. And
Speaker 2: that's what keeps you humble and keeps you honest. You
Speaker 2: don't know who you've got till you get to know them,
Speaker 2: and don't try and make a child an adult. I
Speaker 2: used to joke that my son Zachary was born at
Speaker 2: the age of forty two, because he was very verbal
Speaker 2: before he moved, and he seemed to understand the world
Speaker 2: in a different way. But he had his own challenges
Speaker 2: and socializing with kids was not easy, and if they
Speaker 2: got in his space, he got overwhelmed and acted out.
Speaker 2: And I thought it was a great gift to have
Speaker 2: two very different temperaments because it expanded my knowledge of children.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it's a good note for parents
Speaker 1: to be careful. I hear parents make narratives for their
Speaker 1: kids that I'm not sure even one hundred percent true.
Speaker 1: Yet she's got a really she's really sickly like disposition.
Speaker 1: She's sick all the time, she catches germs all the time.
Speaker 1: I just hear it, and I'm like, don't know if
Speaker 1: that's good or bad. Just it is what it is.
Speaker 1: Maybe we shouldn't judge it.
Speaker 2: You're better off framing it by your own feeling. I
Speaker 2: get triggered by this behavior or that behavior rather than
Speaker 2: a character assessment, because it may be a bad day,
Speaker 2: it may be a mood, it may be a phase.
Speaker 1: Good God face, something.
Speaker 2: That tells the whole story. I'd like to I think
Speaker 2: my favorite thing to say to parents is this is
Speaker 2: not the end of the story. This is the beginning
Speaker 2: of the story.
Speaker 1: This is so helpful Carol. Everyone who's listening. Everything is
Speaker 1: a phase, and Carol got me through one of the
Speaker 1: hardest when Albie was really hitting a lot of children.
Speaker 1: I was up all night so upset because obviously I'm
Speaker 1: a people pleaser, and I couldn't believe that I had
Speaker 1: the kid on the playground that was hitting other children,
Speaker 1: and I'm just apologizing to everyone and so scared no
Speaker 1: one's gonna like me or my kid and had to
Speaker 1: put on my big girl pants and learn how to
Speaker 1: anticipate help him through that.
Speaker 2: Stay close, put your hand right there. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to let you hit, but I will help you. Tell
Speaker 2: me what you need. I want that toy. I'm going
Speaker 2: to help you wait, and this is how we can
Speaker 2: get it. When you get done with it, will you
Speaker 2: please give it to Albie? And then now I'm going
Speaker 2: to hold your hand and help you wait. You know
Speaker 2: how many times have you seen moms at the park
Speaker 2: say things to their kids from the bench and the
Speaker 2: kids don't hear it, don't listen when you speak. Make
Speaker 2: sure that it has impact. It means follow through. It
Speaker 2: means you can't say things like play nights or use
Speaker 2: your words. If they could use their words at those times,
Speaker 2: they would, they generally have them. But they're at the
Speaker 2: moment that they're feeling threatened or fight or flight that
Speaker 2: chemical kicks in. They just defend, and they defend by
Speaker 2: hitting because they don't know what to do. That's when
Speaker 2: you move in and you help. I'm here, I gotcha.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you like being on this other side
Speaker 1: of it. Like he's five and a half now, and
Speaker 1: the years I spent I'm sticking close by. I'm going
Speaker 1: to be putting. I'm putting my hand up because I
Speaker 1: won't let you hit someone's body. What do you need?
Speaker 1: How can I help you? Would you like this toy?
Speaker 1: For years I did this. It was exhausting. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. However, I prepared my son for those years
Speaker 1: because now he's got a little sister. And let me
Speaker 1: tell you something. She hits him, and he does not.
Speaker 1: He holds his hands by his side and he yells
Speaker 1: sometimes in her face, like a big guttural scream, and
Speaker 1: he says, but I'm not hitting her because I'm not
Speaker 1: going to hit her, but I'm gonna yell because I'm
Speaker 1: so frustrated that she just hit me. Good for him,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, I worked my ass off for.
Speaker 2: This, that's right, and that's the payoff. That's not See.
Speaker 2: It wasn't the end of the story, Sadie.
Speaker 1: Nope, I worked my ass off and it literally pays
Speaker 1: itself back every day. And I tell him, remember how
Speaker 1: we taught you how to use your hands and how
Speaker 1: to treat other people's bodies. Now we're teaching this, Verra,
Speaker 1: We're teaching this to your sister. It has been such
Speaker 1: a blessing. I can't tell you to have a leader
Speaker 1: like you and the advice like that to even know
Speaker 1: what to do. What should parents look for in a
Speaker 1: nursery school?
Speaker 2: In your opinion, I have a bias, But what I
Speaker 2: think very clearly is that play is the work of children,
Speaker 2: and what children in preschool should be doing is playing
Speaker 2: because it's how they make sense of the world. It's
Speaker 2: how they work out things in their emotional life. It's
Speaker 2: how they make sense of medical trauma. It's how they
Speaker 2: make sense of divorce or travel.
Speaker 1: Or having a sibling.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely having a sibling. They have a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of years to be academic scholars if that's their thing,
Speaker 2: or work with their hands and do something wonderful if
Speaker 2: it's not their thing. But there's only one time in
Speaker 2: life when play can be the priority and be supported.
Speaker 2: And when you look around and see how many adults
Speaker 2: can't play, you can guess what happened to them too early.
Speaker 2: There's no Studies show that there is no advantage to
Speaker 2: introducing right and wrong academic work in the preschool years.
Speaker 2: A good play based preschool will have all of the
Speaker 2: things that they need to get ready for learning. They'll
Speaker 2: have the shapes and the toys and the puzzles, and
Speaker 2: that thing together that will sustain blocks our preparation for math,
Speaker 2: dress up corner as a preparation for life. The puzzles
Speaker 2: and manipulative toys are a preparation for reading and writing,
Speaker 2: and they are Artists will come from being allowed to
Speaker 2: express themselves in all art media without a right way
Speaker 2: to do it. My advice would be look for a
Speaker 2: place where kids are happy, engaged themselves in my work
Speaker 2: with children by going to their homes privately. I've observed
Speaker 2: a lot of schools. Now you have to remember I
Speaker 2: taught at the same nursery school for over forty years.
Speaker 2: I didn't visit a lot of schools, and it's been
Speaker 2: eye opening, and some of it has been very depressing.
Speaker 2: And in visiting a school where the emphasis was language immersion,
Speaker 2: I saw a lot of shutdown kids and kids whose
Speaker 2: bodies were you could tell aching to play and if
Speaker 2: they said the wrong thing, they were told it was
Speaker 2: wrong and had to do it again. Maybe that's very
Speaker 2: important a few years from then. But in preschool, how
Speaker 2: many kids learn another language by having it be around them,
Speaker 2: or having a nanny who speaks it, or having parents
Speaker 2: who speak it. There's all kinds of ways to get there.
Speaker 2: But honor play in the preschool years would be my advice.
Speaker 1: I would like to honor play for like way longer, right.
Speaker 2: So would I. But then life kicks in a lot
Speaker 2: of outdoor stuff, a lot of acceptance of different kinds
Speaker 2: of kids. How do they handle rambunctious children who maybe
Speaker 2: don't have perfect impulse control. Do you let them mesh
Speaker 2: up and then correct them or do you take their
Speaker 2: hand and get ahead of it. How are the adults
Speaker 2: responding to children? How are they responding to the active
Speaker 2: wild child? How are they responding to the shy and
Speaker 2: introverted child. Everything is relationship based. Are they willing to
Speaker 2: make relationships?
Speaker 1: I have seen amazing stuff in my all the tours
Speaker 1: I did, but like you said, like watching children who
Speaker 1: might have lots of sensory things, kids like my kid
Speaker 1: who is like, please don't sing Happy Birthday, you have
Speaker 1: to whisper it. I'm gonna fly off the handle if
Speaker 1: I near a car honk, or a kid that might
Speaker 1: be slightly on the spectrum. There's a kid that I'LBI
Speaker 1: grew up with that Carol knows, and she was so
Speaker 1: shy and one of those kids that took months of
Speaker 1: crying over the separation of her mom. And thank god
Speaker 1: the teachers were trained to be able to attach themselves
Speaker 1: to her. And now she has blossomed like a flower
Speaker 1: like none I've seen. I can't even remember that shy girl.
Speaker 1: Not to say that she's misperformer or anything, but it
Speaker 1: thank god she was in a place that honored and
Speaker 1: met her where she exactly was and just held her
Speaker 1: hand and helped her through that.
Speaker 2: Remember that this is the first time preschool they're in
Speaker 2: community without mom and dad. It has to be a
Speaker 2: safe place. It has to be a place that accepts
Speaker 2: who they are. And that's the other thing I want
Speaker 2: to say, building on that, is make sure the separation
Speaker 2: process is gentle. Be weary of a school that says, oh,
Speaker 2: drop them off the first day, they'll cry and they'll
Speaker 2: get over it. No, that's not what happens. They may
Speaker 2: stop crying, but that means they shut down. That doesn't
Speaker 2: mean they resolved it. You want to look at separation
Speaker 2: in the face, say goodbye to your mommy. If you're sad,
Speaker 2: I'll help you. Wow, that's why I'm here. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: help you. That's how you make a relationship with this kid.
Speaker 2: You're not afraid of their hardest feelings. You're not afraid
Speaker 2: if they're sad. You're never gonna say, don't cry. You're
Speaker 2: gonna say your feelings are safe with me. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: help you.
Speaker 1: I'm here speaking of that same topic for those listening
Speaker 1: who might be on the precipice of a big transition,
Speaker 1: whether it's be starting nursery school or for me, starting kindergarten,
Speaker 1: which I honestly think is gonna be way harder for
Speaker 1: me than my son. Any advice on preparing how we
Speaker 1: can lovingly prepare our children for this once we have
Speaker 1: made the choice of where they will be going to school.
Speaker 1: What advice do you have for parents on that next journey.
Speaker 2: One of the things I know about the school where
Speaker 2: your kids go is that they will help you with that.
Speaker 2: They start preparing a few months before they start identifying
Speaker 2: the graduates. They start talking about what the changes are
Speaker 2: going to be. One of the techniques that I love
Speaker 2: to use Katie with preschool kids is to make books.
Speaker 2: You take plain white paper, you staple them together, you
Speaker 2: make stick figure drawings, and you talk about what's going
Speaker 2: to happen. There's a wonderful printed book called Will I
Speaker 2: Have a Friend?
Speaker 1: I don't know this book writing it on my list.
Speaker 2: I don't know the author off hand, but it's easily
Speaker 2: googled and ordered. I think it's about preschool, but it's
Speaker 2: perfect also for kindergarten because the changes. Am I going
Speaker 2: to be safe there? Am I going to have a
Speaker 2: friend there? Is it going to be different? First of all,
Speaker 2: allow the sad feelings about leaving the school they're going to,
Speaker 2: and then reassure them that you're going to be with
Speaker 2: them at the beginning, that it's going to be hard,
Speaker 2: and that they will be okay because look how well
Speaker 2: they did in nursery school. They're going to have the skills,
Speaker 2: they're going to make friends. It may feel uncomfortable for
Speaker 2: a while, but it's going to be fine, and we're
Speaker 2: going to help you at home, because that's what families do,
Speaker 2: help each other.
Speaker 1: Will I have a Friend? By Miriam Cohen and Lillian Hoban.
Speaker 2: Yes, wonderful, wonderful book, and I am.
Speaker 1: Getting that immediately. I think my biggest thing selfishly asking
Speaker 1: I feel that our nursery school has completely prepared him socially.
Speaker 1: He's just great with conflict and with other people and groups,
Speaker 1: Thank heavens. However, I'm really curious to see because the
Speaker 1: drop off is going to be very different. It's like line,
Speaker 1: but would they begin?
Speaker 2: Are you there at all?
Speaker 1: For yees?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I walk him into I walk him to his
Speaker 1: classroom door with all the parents, and he has a
Speaker 1: bunch of playdates leading up to it with other kids
Speaker 1: in his class, where he's met the principal and we've
Speaker 1: actually I've cheated a little bit, and I keep hanging
Speaker 1: out with other kids who I know who go there
Speaker 1: and have gone with their mothers to pick them up
Speaker 1: like without me, so he's been on campus.
Speaker 2: That's wonderful.
Speaker 1: I'm like, let's just have it be And he's pumped,
Speaker 1: like he's completely excited. But he says, I'm two things
Speaker 1: at once. He says, I'm excited and I'm nervous.
Speaker 2: I love that, you know. That's there were usedupid book
Speaker 2: that I used to read to the kids when I
Speaker 2: taught nursery school called double Dip Feelings, And that's another
Speaker 2: great one. You can hold two feelings at the same time.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit scared and a little bit excited.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I mean, we're talking about the transition
Speaker 1: into preschool, transition into kindergarten. What about other transitions like
Speaker 1: mommy's got to go back to work or has a
Speaker 1: big job, or someone's going away. How do you help
Speaker 1: parents with those kinds of transitions.
Speaker 2: For preschool children, I tell them maybe a week before,
Speaker 2: not months before, because they can't handle it. But a
Speaker 2: week before. That's when making a book comes in really
Speaker 2: handy pictures of an airplane, pictures of a destination, or
Speaker 2: we send the book with a reunion. Then mommy's done
Speaker 2: and mommy comes back, or we go away, we come back.
Speaker 2: That old preschool book, You go Away, You Come Back,
Speaker 2: ends with now we're taking a big trip, we will
Speaker 2: come back. And so your own book follows that theme
Speaker 2: of reunion.
Speaker 1: What's the name of that book? I don't even know.
Speaker 2: You go Away, You Come Back. They have it at
Speaker 2: the school, many copies, I think, So you can either
Speaker 2: get it or you can borrow it.
Speaker 1: We made it Adam. Of course, my husband's so good
Speaker 1: attack but when he booked a job in Budapeshe last year,
Speaker 1: and I was so scared because he'd be back and
Speaker 1: forth for like eight months. And we made this book
Speaker 1: where we printed out like what is hotel looked like
Speaker 1: and on a plane, and what Hungarian food looked like,
Speaker 1: and then Daddy comes home and then we're going to
Speaker 1: go to Budapeste, and then it was like pictures of
Speaker 1: what Albi would be doing in Budapeste.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. That's how you prepare, and there's always
Speaker 2: your reunion at the end. And then for the person
Speaker 2: at home, if they're staying at home while you go,
Speaker 2: it's helpful to cross out the calendar, cross out every
Speaker 2: single day, how many more sleeps, And sometimes with preschool,
Speaker 2: FaceTime really helps and sometimes it makes it harder, and
Speaker 2: it's hard to know if you can take the potential
Speaker 2: tears in FaceTime. It's probably helpful for your kids to
Speaker 2: see you, to hear that you miss them and that
Speaker 2: you will be home soon. As the kid's dad, my
Speaker 2: grandchildren's dad travels a lot, and that kind of thing
Speaker 2: really helps. Strangely enough, I've heard so many people say
Speaker 2: mothers feel horribly guilty about those things and dads don't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's often a male thing. Work is important to them,
Speaker 2: and it's probably has in some ways equal importance for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, and moms are always torn that they're doing
Speaker 2: a terrible thing and they're not. It's what they do.
Speaker 2: You're modeling for your kids how to have a fulfilled
Speaker 2: and creative life. And as long as you have people
Speaker 2: sustaining them that you trust and that they feel comfortable with,
Speaker 2: they're going to be fine. I made a mistake once
Speaker 2: when my kids were little, for all kinds of reasons
Speaker 2: that I won't get into, and I took a trip
Speaker 2: with my husband that was way too long to leave.
Speaker 2: Alexis was twenty one months old. It probably took me
Speaker 2: maybe twenty years to repair that one. Carol No and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't make that decision today given what I now know.
Speaker 2: But I was fallible, I was vulnerable. It seemed important
Speaker 2: at the time. Who knows. My in laws took care
Speaker 2: of them. They were okay, but that look, when I
Speaker 2: got back of who are You? It wasn't was thirty days.
Speaker 2: It was way too long for a twenty one month
Speaker 2: old to not check in. And remember they didn't have
Speaker 2: all the technology back then, so I couldn't do FaceTime
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. Anyway, if you tell ask Alexis now,
Speaker 2: she'll probably tell you that we've repaired that, but she'll
Speaker 2: also tell you how hard it was, and I have
Speaker 2: to be willing to hear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, gosh, that's great. Okay, this is what I
Speaker 1: think is coming down the pipe, selfishly for me, kids
Speaker 1: playing doctors with friends, self exploring their bodies, What the
Speaker 1: hell is about to happen to my life and how
Speaker 1: do I get through it.
Speaker 2: That's a very normal and natural part of development. There's
Speaker 2: a reason that nursery schools have co ed bathrooms so
Speaker 2: kids can see each other, identify each other, and enjoy
Speaker 2: looking at other genitalia and figuring out what it is.
Speaker 2: When they are touching each other and figuring that stuff out.
Speaker 2: They're exploring in a natural way. Our society freaks out
Speaker 2: and makes it something else. Here. We have a hyper
Speaker 2: sexualized society that shows all these images, and yet when
Speaker 2: kids do what in a tribe touch would have been natural.
Speaker 2: They then we can't understand it and we freak out.
Speaker 2: So you can say, don't make it wrong, but if
Speaker 2: you're uncomfortable with it, you can don't put it. First
Speaker 2: of all, you tell them don't put things inside your
Speaker 2: body because it's not safe and it could hurt you.
Speaker 2: But don't make them wrong for being curious and for
Speaker 2: being interested. You can say, yep, vaginas are great to
Speaker 2: look at, but they're private. Right. If a kid is
Speaker 2: touching themselves in the thin out in the household, you
Speaker 2: can say, I can see that. That feels really good,
Speaker 2: and it's also private, So go in your room and
Speaker 2: enjoy it well when you come back out. It's not
Speaker 2: an outside thing, it's not a family thing. But it's
Speaker 2: enjoyable and it feels good, and you can do it
Speaker 2: in your room.
Speaker 1: That's so great. There's a girl in our school who
Speaker 1: did that a lot. It was really interesting to see
Speaker 1: and really cool to watch like her not be shamed
Speaker 1: for that. It was obviously like a stress relieving thing.
Speaker 1: She was fiddling around, and after a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: they were like, okay, well you could do that when
Speaker 1: you get home in your room. It was really interesting
Speaker 1: to watch them not make her feel like she was
Speaker 1: in trouble or that it was bad.
Speaker 2: Very important, very important, because we do all kinds of
Speaker 2: things to stimulate kids, just in billboards and pictures and
Speaker 2: all kinds of things, and then we make them wrong
Speaker 2: for exploring their own bodies. We don't have to do that,
Speaker 2: but we can also teach them to be socially acceptable.
Speaker 1: What do you do for kids with sensory stuff? Which
Speaker 1: I never even knew was a thing growing up. I'd
Speaker 1: never heard of it.
Speaker 2: It's more and more of a thing as they are.
Speaker 2: More and more neuro divergent kids are being identified, and
Speaker 2: some kids who aren't necessarily neurodiversion also have sensory issues. Fortunately,
Speaker 2: there's a wonderful thing called OT and OT can emphasize
Speaker 2: sensory integration. So if you think it's a real problem,
Speaker 2: if your child is consistently overwhelmed with sensory issues, clothes
Speaker 2: or uncomfortable to tags on shirts, bother them. They have
Speaker 2: to have socks a certain way. They don't think about
Speaker 2: adding OT to your schedule because I've seen it be
Speaker 2: incredibly helpful to children, and they're bursting at the seams
Speaker 2: these clinics. That's what Alexis does now, so I'm familiar.
Speaker 2: They've never been so many kids. I think some of
Speaker 2: it may be anxiety from the pandemic. I don't even know,
Speaker 2: but there's a tremendous amount of it. So there's things
Speaker 2: that you can do to address that. And again it's
Speaker 2: something that they will learn to manage. So what I
Speaker 2: say to parents is, if your kids need a little
Speaker 2: help in this area. I don't know a human being
Speaker 2: in this world that gets through this journey of life
Speaker 2: without help. Somewhere along the.
Speaker 1: Way, I went to OT. I needed help because I
Speaker 1: couldn't take one more hair washing of my son. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't if you try to shampoo his hair, or brush
Speaker 1: his hair or give him a haircut. You have to
Speaker 1: wash your kid's head a couple times a week. It's
Speaker 1: like I was pushing, and I'm a virgo who loves cleanliness,
Speaker 1: and if you wash his hair, brush his hair, it's
Speaker 1: like you're killing him with a fork in the eyeball.
Speaker 1: It is a horrible experience for me, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I got to talk to somebody who can help me.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's gonna be a lot more hair washing
Speaker 1: in our future and I can't do this. Did they
Speaker 1: help you? Oh yeah, I got these awesome head massage
Speaker 1: er things that coached him through touch in his head
Speaker 1: in a way that he felt okay. We were very communicative.
Speaker 1: He was much like it was such so much about
Speaker 1: self autonomy, like learning how to wash his own hair,
Speaker 1: what was good.
Speaker 2: And also you then reminding him, remember you, I know
Speaker 2: you don't like this, it's necessary to do it. Remember
Speaker 2: your strategies, what helps you? What do you like? What
Speaker 2: don't you like?
Speaker 1: Where would you like?
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you what. I'm going to pour
Speaker 2: water over your head so you can close your eyes,
Speaker 2: or do you want to pour it yourself? Get a
Speaker 2: little picture and let him do it himself.
Speaker 1: It was wild watching his sister in the time with him,
Speaker 1: because she's couldn't give a shit, Like she's looking at
Speaker 1: him having and she's like, what's happening? And that's when
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this seems extra, this is something?
Speaker 1: Is this is not?
Speaker 2: He's more sensorally sensitive.
Speaker 1: And I knew he had noise sound stuff and anyway,
Speaker 1: it ot was great. I love that piece of advice.
Speaker 2: I can't recommend it enough. I think it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: What's the best preschool tip that you've received?
Speaker 2: To honor the play of children as important work and
Speaker 2: don't interrupt it unless it's absolutely necessary. Do what you
Speaker 2: can to support it and sustain it.
Speaker 1: What's the best preschool tip that you've given?
Speaker 2: The tip that I would give people most raising preschool
Speaker 2: kids is keep a twinkle in your heart, keep a
Speaker 2: sense of humor. These stages will pass. They're okay, You're okay, smile,
Speaker 2: it's okay.
Speaker 1: If that isn't a tip for life, I don't know
Speaker 1: what is. That's how I feel about it. What remains
Speaker 1: undone that you've wanted to get done for years? When
Speaker 1: it comes to educating preschool children.
Speaker 2: They'll always be children and parents who are struggling. The
Speaker 2: work will never be done. To keep doing it till
Speaker 2: I no longer walk on this earth.
Speaker 1: This question terrifies me because God willing, I'm your age,
Speaker 1: and I get to ask myself this looking back at
Speaker 1: raising your own kids, what would you do the same
Speaker 1: and what would you change other than that thirty day trip.
Speaker 2: That's for sure. I remember that. I wish I guess
Speaker 2: that old saying you can't know what you know till
Speaker 2: you know it. I didn't know the things I know now.
Speaker 2: I learned so much from the nursery school when my
Speaker 2: own children went there, the same school our kids are
Speaker 2: going to. That I made it my life's work to
Speaker 2: continue that work. I definitely wish I had known a
Speaker 2: lot of that stuff earlier. I think I would have
Speaker 2: been a much better mom. So I get to be
Speaker 2: a better grandma and my kids get to see it,
Speaker 2: and that's important too.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that. What is Did you even have
Speaker 1: a registry when you were pregnant? Was that a thing?
Speaker 2: It was not a thing for me, but I was
Speaker 2: recently living in California, I didn't really have I was
Speaker 2: away from family. I didn't have a whole support system
Speaker 2: then about kids. I didn't but in the but I've
Speaker 2: seen it through the years as my grandkids are born.
Speaker 2: And the best thing that I can imagine giving children
Speaker 2: is books, books, books.
Speaker 1: Books, books, And I just wrote down three from this
Speaker 1: podcast that I don't know. Thanks to Carol, you need
Speaker 1: to give me a list. What advice would you like
Speaker 1: to give to children in general as they get closer
Speaker 1: to nursery school in kindergarten.
Speaker 2: Age, That Mommy will stay with them, That they will
Speaker 2: until they are comfortable. That it might be hard, and
Speaker 2: it might they might have all kinds of feelings and
Speaker 2: it's all going to be okay because you're going to
Speaker 2: pick a nursery school, hopefully with teachers that will make
Speaker 2: them feel safe and make them feel and normalize that
Speaker 2: it's absolutely normal to feel anxious. And also another tip
Speaker 2: would be don't tell them the end of the story
Speaker 2: before they begin. In other words, don't emphasize soon I
Speaker 2: will leave you there, say we're going to start school.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be there. Yeah, it'll be okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really good. Don't play the end at the beginning, right, Okay.
Speaker 1: We always ask our guests this question. Finish this sentence.
Speaker 2: Parenthood is the most humbling experience you will ever have.
Speaker 2: You can be great at your career, and this will
Speaker 2: bring you to your knees.
Speaker 1: It is so humbling. It's a road, and parenting is
Speaker 1: so hard, but it is so rewarding if you can
Speaker 1: get yourself back up from falling down on your knees.
Speaker 2: It's all about heading back up. It's all about that.
Speaker 2: And you're learning. You say to your kids, we're learning
Speaker 2: how to be a family of four. We didn't know
Speaker 2: we were a family of three. Now we're a family
Speaker 2: of four. I'm learning how to be a mom. I'm
Speaker 2: doing the best I can. I'm learning.
Speaker 1: This was so helpful. I know all of our listeners
Speaker 1: are just like shouting from the rooftops and have such
Speaker 1: practical tips, advice and thoughts that they can take with
Speaker 1: them from today.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Can I give you my email in case
Speaker 2: people want to get in please tell us all right,
Speaker 2: it's all lowercase provost p r vosg CB at gmail.
Speaker 1: Provost CB all lowercase at gmail dot com. I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful for the time, and I couldn't have had a
Speaker 1: better guest with my children just entering and exiting my
Speaker 1: closet as much as they are.
Speaker 2: That means a lot. At this point in my life,
Speaker 2: I look back, and that's what means so much. To
Speaker 2: have made a difference in one life means who have succeeded.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Carol I think and hear you in
Speaker 1: my head daily day, and all of the phrases that
Speaker 1: you've said, even on this podcast, I hear you daily,
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode.
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns.
Speaker 1: Let me know. You can always find me at Katie'scrib
Speaker 1: at Shondaland dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of
Speaker 1: Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.