1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 2: Affirmative Action is over as we know it. Welcome to 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: our two of Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: where the Supreme Court leads the day with a six ' 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: three ruling barring the use of race in college admissions. 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: We'll dive inside the decision with Bloomberg Supreme Court expert 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: Greg Store, a busy man this week, with insights as 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: well from Attorney Reeves Anderson, who has litigated several cases 12 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: before the High Court. Later, Big Banks passed the latest 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: stress test with a caveat What doll it mean, if anything, 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,319 Speaker 2: for the future of regulations in the sector. We'll talk 15 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: about it all with Bloomberg's Kate Davison and Congressional reporter 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: Eric Wasason. All that after a look at the markets, 17 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: let's get up to date right now on Wall Street 18 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 2: with Charlie Pellar. 19 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 3: I think very much, Joe Matthew, the doal bs and 20 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 3: p they are higher newstack Laura, you mentioned those bank stocks. 21 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 3: JP Morgan Chase up three point two percent. City Group 22 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 3: after the stress test up five tenths of one percent, 23 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: Bank of America two point two percent, Wells Fargo up 24 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: by four point two percent, s and P right Now 25 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 3: Hire by seven, up two tenths of one percent. The 26 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 3: Dow up two hundred four, up six tens of one percent. 27 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 3: Nastak Hire early in the session, but right now down 28 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: thirty seven drop there were three tents of one percent 29 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: nastak one hundred index down sixty nine. That is a 30 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 3: drop now of just about five tents. 31 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: Of one percent. 32 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 3: Wall Street did get more signs this morning that the 33 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 3: Fed's war on inflation is not breaking the economy, or 34 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 3: at least not yet, with traitors sending Treasury Old soaring 35 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 3: amid bets on further tightening. Tenure yield three point eight 36 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: four percent of the two year four point eight six 37 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 3: percent spot Go little change right now up forty cents 38 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: the ounce to nineteen oh seven, and West Texas Intermediate 39 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 3: crewed up three tents of one percent, sixty nine seventy 40 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 3: four barrel. Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta President Raphael Bostic 41 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: says he favors keeping borrowing costs on hold, but the 42 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: chaired J. Powell and other colleagues don't agree with him. 43 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: Powell is signaling keenness to lift rates, but J. Pulaski, 44 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 3: chief investment officer at TPW Investment Management, told us this 45 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: morning he's not buying. 46 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 4: I think the FED is effectively done. If they are 47 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 4: data dependent. The June inflation number is likely to come 48 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 4: in under four percent a year over year. The decline 49 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 4: in inflation has been as rapid as the rise was 50 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 4: in terms of length of time. The idea that folks 51 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 4: should be disappointed that inflation hasn't declined faster is kind 52 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 4: of doesn't make a whole lot of sense to us. 53 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 4: Your a TVW advisory, and. 54 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: You can hear more of that conversation on the Bloomberg 55 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 3: Surveillance podcast. You can download it wherever you get your podcasts. 56 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: According to court Papers, Bath and Beyond Hast selected baby 57 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 3: goods company dream on Me Industries as the initial winner 58 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: of an auction for the bankrupt retailers. Bye bye baby brand. 59 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: Recapping stocks are trading mixed s and p up four 60 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: up by one tenth of one percent. I'm Charlie Peloton 61 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,559 Speaker 3: that is a Bloomberg business flash. 62 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: All right, Charlie, thank you. Welcome to our two of 63 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 2: Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We have big 64 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: news today on the Supreme Court. If you're just joining us, 65 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: an important ruling that has sweeping effects across the education 66 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: sector and life in America as we know it could 67 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: impact the job market and a lot of things here 68 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: as the Supreme Court essentially ends affirmative action as we 69 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: know at six ' three to toppel programs at Harvard 70 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: and North Carolina University, effectively barring colleges from using race 71 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: as a factor in university admissions. Fresh off his visit 72 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court this morning when the news broke 73 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: is Greg Store, Bloomberg News Supreme Court expert, and boy, 74 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: here we have another one. Greg. It's been quite a 75 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: conversation this week. Six ' three a little different than 76 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: the last six three as this does fall along ideological. 77 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, this does. We haven't had much of that this term. 78 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 5: But this is a decision where the conservative majority really 79 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 5: showed and used its muscle did something that it sure 80 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 5: seems like Chief Justice Roberts has been wanting to do 81 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 5: for a long time, which is to effectively overturn a 82 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,239 Speaker 5: couple precedents and to say that universities cannot use race, 83 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 5: at least not in terms of giving every applicant of 84 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 5: a particular race a bump up in the admissions process. 85 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: Yep, okay. So this was two cases that essentially impact 86 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: public and private colleges across the country. 87 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 5: Now, yeah, we have Harvard, which is a private college, 88 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 5: the University of North Carolina, which is public. There are 89 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 5: actually two different kind of strands of the argument, one 90 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 5: involving the Constitution's Equal Protection Clause, one involving Title six 91 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 5: of the Civil Rights Act. The Court essentially said they're 92 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 5: the same and because of that, neither of these institutions 93 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 5: can use race. 94 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: Remarkable exchange between the Court's to Black justices. Justice Thomas 95 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: accused Katanji Brown Jackson of having race a race infused 96 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: worldview that falls flat. She responded in this footnote here 97 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: in her twenty nine page descent, saying Thomas does not dispute, 98 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 2: nor could he, the origins of continued existence of race 99 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: based disparity. Quote, yet it is somehow persuaded that these 100 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 2: realities have no bearing on a fair assessment of individual achievement. 101 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: This is something that Clarence Thomas has been working on 102 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: for over a generation, isn't it? 103 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 6: It is? 104 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 5: And he did something that is really unusual, which is 105 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 5: that he read a summary of a concurring opinion from 106 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 5: the bench. Sometimes you see dissenters do that. Justice Soda 107 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 5: Mayor did that today, But he felt so strongly that 108 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 5: he wanted to read a portion of his opinion even 109 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 5: after the Chief Justice had spoken. Yeah, he is. You know, 110 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 5: he has always said that racial preferences in any form 111 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 5: are stigmatizing to black people, and now he's seeing his 112 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 5: views put in the law. 113 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: We've got one more day here and two more rulings 114 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: that you're anticipating, Greg. One of them is the student 115 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 2: loan debt forgiveness that's likely to come tomorrow. 116 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 5: Right. The Chief Justice said that the last opinions of 117 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 5: the term will come tomorrow at starting at ten o'clock. 118 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 5: A't the case where Joe Biden is forgiving would forgive 119 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 5: loans of about forty million people, some of the loans 120 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 5: up to twenty thousand dollars per person. During arguments to 121 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 5: the court, seem pretty skeptical that he had the authority 122 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 5: to do that. But there is a lingering question about 123 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 5: whether the states and others challenging the plan have legal 124 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 5: standing to even get in the court. 125 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 2: So we'll be clicking refreshed again tomorrow morning at ten. 126 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: Can I just ask you, Greg, what's it like over there? 127 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: What kind of digs do reporters have? Is there a 128 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: filing room in the court. When we hear you calling 129 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: in from there? Where are you? And what's going on? 130 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 5: Well, two things are happening up in the courtroom. There's 131 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 5: a lot of drama because the justices are there reading 132 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 5: their opinions, our summaries of them. I'm down in the 133 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 5: press room where I get handed I can. I'll hold 134 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 5: it up and show you because this is like a book. Here, 135 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 5: look at that I got today. 136 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: Love it. 137 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 5: They hand us a copy of the opinion, and that's 138 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 5: there's a bit of a mad scramble down there. 139 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: And then everyone starts typing and calling. 140 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 3: And then everything exactly. 141 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 142 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: Well, well I guess you'll be back tomorrow. Greg. You've 143 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: been so helpful this week. We thank you for stopping 144 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: by Greg's store. Look for his story on the terminal. 145 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News Supreme Court reporter and he's our expert of 146 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: the week. Here. We'll be looking for Greg's reporting tomorrow. 147 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: Thanks for doing a great job as always, Greg. Let's 148 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: bring in Reeves Anderson, partner at Arnold and Porter. He's 149 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: litigated a number of cases before the Supreme Court himself, 150 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,119 Speaker 2: and we want to get his take on this ruling. Reeves, 151 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: you surprised by the way it went. 152 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 7: To Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. I 153 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 7: can't say I'm surprised, you know. I think that the 154 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 7: writing has been on the wall for some time here. 155 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 7: In fact, the fact that affirmative action survived the last challenge, 156 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 7: which was twenty sixteen in the court, I think was 157 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 7: a sigh of release to affirmative actions advocate. And so 158 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 7: today it's a surprise, not so much how it was done. 159 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 7: And the sixth competing opinions here, I think that leads 160 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 7: a lot to unpack and might lead to some surprises 161 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 7: down the line. 162 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: Well, it does, and I wonder your thoughts on you know, 163 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: the workarounds here because every university is now with this news, 164 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: taking a look at what else can be done. Do 165 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: we start considering zip codes to self identifying essays count? 166 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: How will universities and colleges pursue the goal of diversity 167 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: that they've all professed to be chasing. 168 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 7: And we've already seen some statements released by Harvard University, 169 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 7: probably you and c has done the same to try 170 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 7: to find some of the loopholes or carve outs in 171 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 7: justice Robert's opinion here, there's one important one that he 172 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 7: specifically called out, which is that in so far as 173 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 7: race may be relevant to other admissions criteria, universities are 174 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 7: still free to. 175 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 6: Look at it. 176 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 7: So when to quote one part of this opinion which says, 177 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 7: nothing prohibits universities from considering an applicants discussion of how 178 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 7: race affected an applicant's life, so long as that discussion 179 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 7: is concretely tied to a quality of character or unique 180 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 7: ability of that particular applicant to contribute to the university. 181 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 7: This just means that application essays are going to be critical. 182 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: Yep. We heard from President Biden on this a short 183 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: time after the ruling came in. Here Reeves, here's what 184 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 2: he said, A. 185 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 8: Path consistent with the law that protects diversity and expands opportunities. 186 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 8: So today I want to offer some guidance to our 187 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 8: nation's colleges as they review their admission systems after the 188 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 8: day's decision guidance that is consistent with the day's decision. 189 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 8: They should not aband let me say this again, they 190 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 8: should not abandon their commitment to ensure student bodies of 191 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 8: diverse backgrounds and experience that reflect all of America. What 192 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 8: I propose consideration is a new standard. 193 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: A new standards reeves that will what then force another 194 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: court case. 195 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 7: What the court opinions today make clear is that universities 196 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 7: may not do through the back door what they're not 197 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 7: allowed to do through the front door. So the court 198 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 7: doesn't close it all together, but they Chief Justice Roberts' 199 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 7: opinion in particular says that if you are using some 200 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 7: proxy for race as a thumb on the scale, that's 201 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 7: not going to survive equal protection scrutiny. And so I 202 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 7: think what universities are probably thinking about today and have 203 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 7: been thinking about for some time, are what other levers 204 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 7: can we change, for instance, legacy admissions that might have 205 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 7: the intended effects in the long term of creating diversity 206 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 7: within the student body population, which again no one really disputes, 207 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 7: is a compelling government interests and one that the university 208 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 7: should continue to pursue, and that. 209 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 2: By that you mean ending legacy admissions. 210 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 9: I do. 211 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 7: I think that's probably something that's on the table because 212 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 7: legacy admits reflect what the defending opinions by Justice tot 213 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 7: of Mayor and Justice Jackson recognized as an institutionalized effect 214 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 7: of racial discrimination over time. Again, some of the other 215 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 7: competing opinions. We have two hundred and thirty seven pages 216 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 7: to wade through here of competing policies. But you know, 217 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 7: one of the points that was made in one of 218 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 7: the concurring opinions is that the universities may consider the 219 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 7: fact that a first generation applicant, a first generation college 220 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 7: perspective college student, that may be a sumb on the 221 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 7: scale that may balance out the historical weight that's been 222 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 7: given to legacy applicants. 223 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 2: So I want to get back to something that we 224 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: were talking about last hour on the program, and that's 225 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 2: the idea of the sunset period. Conservative justices in arguments 226 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 2: last year, we're pointing to prior court precedent suggesting that 227 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 2: affirmative action at some point sunset when you know this 228 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: elusive goal is reached. Samuel Alito challenged North Carolina's Solicitor 229 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: Generals in Park, who represented UNC in the case a 230 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: brief exchange here, listen to this. 231 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 10: What is your goal and how will a court ever 232 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 10: be able to determine whether your goal has been reached? 233 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 9: Our goal is to achieve the educational metaphysics diversity. And 234 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 9: I understand that that is a qualitative standard that is 235 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 9: difficult to measure. But I do not believe that the 236 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 9: standard merely being qualitative means that is not susceptible to 237 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 9: rigorous review. 238 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: They didn't seem satisfied with answers to that question. When 239 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: was affirmative action supposed to sunset? Is that a fair question? 240 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 7: So? The sunset clause originates from the two thousand and 241 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 7: three opinion in the Michigan affirmative action cases. That was 242 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 7: an opinion by Justice O'Connor, and she predicted, it was 243 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 7: a prediction that within twenty five years, the use of 244 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 7: racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the 245 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 7: interest approved today. And so there's always been this clock ticking. 246 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 7: Now we're at year twenty now, so we're about five 247 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 7: years away from that deadline. And so the answer that 248 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 7: we just heard played a particularly important theme in Chief 249 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 7: Justice Robert's opinion for the majority that there does not 250 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 7: appear to be an identifiable, logical endpoint, and one of 251 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 7: the fundamental legal points that he made is that equal 252 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 7: protection cannot countenance an indefinite distinguishing between the races in 253 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 7: this category. So we need to be able to measure 254 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 7: whether we're achieving the goal that we set out to 255 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 7: and if we can't do that, or if it looks 256 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 7: like it's never ending, then we've got a constitutional problem. 257 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 2: And here we are today, as we spent time with 258 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 2: Reeves Anderson, a partner at Arnold and Porter. He knows 259 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: what it's like to litigate a case or more than 260 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: one before the Supreme Court. Reeves. We've got another important case, 261 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: actually two of them coming tomorrow. Student loan debt relief 262 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: seems to be the one that is grabbing people's attention 263 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 2: the most. Here are we going to see another six ' 264 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 2: to three ruling that will shoot down the President's plan? 265 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 7: I think this one perhaps is more complicated because of 266 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 7: a very technical legal issue that precedes the merits here, 267 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 7: which is whether the states and the individual students who 268 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 7: are challenging I guess the student loan debt holders who 269 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 7: are challenging the law actually have standing or the rights 270 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 7: to challenge the law in the first place, because there 271 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 7: is that prediced question. It may be that we see 272 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 7: a fractured opinion like we do today that doesn't focus 273 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 7: as much on it. But this affects forty three million 274 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 7: student debt holders. Four hundred billion dollars I think is 275 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 7: the estimate on the value here. So no matter what happens, 276 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 7: it's going to be a landmark deck. 277 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: Boy, that's for sure. The LGBTQ decision as well, this 278 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 2: was a web designer didn't want to have to make 279 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: websites for I believe gay marriages was the idea. That's 280 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: a little bit more of a delicate ruling. Do you 281 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: expect a full opinion on that. 282 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 7: I think we do, And at least the predictions coming 283 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 7: out of argument in that case, that's the three h 284 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 7: three creative case, was that the website designer probably had 285 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 7: the edge. This is again a question about whether a 286 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 7: state's non discrimination law or public accommodation's law, which generally 287 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 7: prohibits discrimination in business transaction in Colorado's case on the 288 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 7: basis of sexual orientation, has to step aside when a 289 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 7: website designer says that it would violate her sincerely held 290 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 7: religious beliefs to design a website for a same sex 291 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 7: couple because that's a message. So there are a number 292 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 7: of different issues percolating in that case. Is this speech 293 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 7: or is this just a commercial transaction? And that distinction 294 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 7: matter when it comes to a context like this. This 295 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 7: is the version two of the wedding cake case from 296 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 7: a few years ago that your listeners remember. So this 297 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 7: is just a reducts and perhaps a decision where they 298 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 7: punted last time. We're just getting in a few years later. 299 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does feel like we've seen this movie before. Reeves. Lastly, 300 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: I want to ask you, with regard to today's decision, 301 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: to what extent might this set precedent for corporations with 302 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: DEI policies? Is this going to go beyond the education system? 303 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 7: It's a great question. And there are two real issues 304 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 7: that we're percolating, and you see the fight between the 305 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 7: dissenting opinion and some of the concurring opinions. One is 306 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 7: on the facts here, but another is much more structural. 307 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 7: What does the equal protection clause mean? And Justice Thomas 308 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 7: advances a theory that he has pressed for years, which 309 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 7: is that the law is supposed to be colorblind. It's 310 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 7: not supposed to take account of race in any way. 311 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 7: You have a competing version of that that's articulated by 312 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 7: Justice Soda Mayor saying that really the equal protection is 313 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 7: supposed to prevent laws that aim to discriminate negative civily 314 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 7: against minority groups. And so I think that flight is 315 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 7: going to continue to play out in the context of corporations, 316 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 7: employment practices. The number of areas of law that are 317 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 7: affected by the meaning of equal protection and what it 318 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 7: means to differentiate in any way are much too long 319 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 7: to account on. 320 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: Just this don't call fascinating stuff. Reeves, stay in touch 321 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: with us. We've got more big stuff coming tomorrow. Reeves Anderson, 322 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: partner at Arnold and Porter, our two of sound On. 323 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the 324 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at 325 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg 326 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: dot Com, and. 327 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: The Bloomberg Business App. 328 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 329 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa. 330 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: Play Bloomberg eleven thirty Still Reeling from the Supreme Court 331 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: sixty three ruling on affirmative action. We just heard from 332 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: President Biden at the White House. 333 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 8: The Court has effectively ended a firm of action and 334 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 8: college admissions. 335 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 2: He spoke from the Roosevelt Rum, in fact, a little more 336 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: than two hours after the news broke, ahead of his 337 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 2: trip to New York today. 338 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 8: The Court once again walked away from decades of precedent 339 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 8: and make as the dissent has made clear, the Descent 340 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 8: states in today's decision quote rolls back decades of precedent 341 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 8: and momentous progress. End of quote. I agree with that 342 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 8: statement from the descent from from the descent. 343 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 2: He agrees with the dissent. We got a statement from 344 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: the Attorney General right around the time the President was talking. 345 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: Merrick Garland writes, quote, we will work with the Department 346 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 2: of Education to provide resources to colleges and universities on 347 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: what admissions practices and programs remain lawful following the Court's decision, 348 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: which is going to be a very important part of 349 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 2: the conversation today because obviously they're looking at their options 350 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 2: right now at universities and colleges around the country. The 351 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 2: President almost word for word with what the Attorney General said. 352 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 8: Today I'm directing the Department of Education to analyze what 353 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 8: practices help build more inclusive and diverse student bodies and 354 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 8: what practices hold that back. Practice like legacy admissions and 355 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 8: other systems expand privileged instead of opportunity. Colleges and university 356 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 8: should continue their commitment to support, retain, and graduate the 357 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 8: first students and classes. 358 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 2: And we bring in Congresswoman Robin Kelly for some insights here, 359 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 2: the Democrat from Illinois's second district, which spans a diverse 360 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 2: area going from the outskirts of Chicago to rural areas 361 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 2: in Illinois. And it's great to have you with us. 362 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: Representative Kelly, I wonder your response to this news today. 363 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 11: I am severely, severely disappointed this opens we'll close doors 364 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 11: of opportunities for so many students. And I agree with 365 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 11: what the President said that the promise of America is 366 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 11: big enough for all of us to succeed. And I 367 00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 11: just hope that colleges will continue their missions bringing in 368 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 11: a diverse student body legally, of course, not breaking any rules, 369 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 11: but it is so important for the college and for 370 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 11: a society. And you know, just so many students that 371 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 11: this has helped and that they've become contributing members of 372 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 11: our society because of the opportunity to go to college. 373 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: Justice Alito during arguments, referred to the Court president prior 374 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: court precedent suggesting a sunset period on affirmative action. A 375 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: lot of the conservative justices, many of them were asking, 376 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: what is the goal here? How long does this program 377 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: stay in place? They clearly didn't like the answers they received. 378 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 2: What would you have told them? 379 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 11: As long as it's necessary. I mean, we still see 380 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 11: systemic racism in all facets of our society, as long 381 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 11: as it's needed. And I think that also people need 382 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 11: to look at it or institutions need to look at 383 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 11: it as the right thing to do, a good thing 384 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 11: to do, not that something is being thrust upon them. 385 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 11: This is the right thing to do again for the college, 386 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 11: a more rewarding experience for everyone that attends the college, 387 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 11: and also for our society. I mean, it was a 388 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 11: long time ago when I went to college, but I 389 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 11: went to school with people that did not have a 390 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 11: black person that lived in their town, and it was 391 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 11: a whole new experience, and you know, I just remember 392 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 11: us getting to know each other, you know, and there 393 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 11: was a you know, there a comfort level was developed, 394 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 11: the ease was developed, and I just think that that's 395 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 11: really important. 396 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: We heard from Speaker Kevin McCarthy his statement the Supreme 397 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: Court is ruled that no Americans should be denied educational 398 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 2: opportunities because of race. He says, now students will be 399 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: able to compete based on equal standards and individual merit. 400 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: This will make college admissions processes fairer and uphold equals 401 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 2: under the law. What would you tell your speaker, I. 402 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 11: Tell my speaker he's putting a spin on that, because 403 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 11: those that are admitted, they are qualified to be admitted. 404 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 11: After everything is vetted and done and grades are looked 405 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 11: at and things like that, then the diversity is looked at. 406 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 11: It's not that they, Kyle, just take a student with 407 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 11: very poor grades and put them above somebody else. I 408 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 11: think that's a spin that they put on it, that 409 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 11: it's denying other people. But those students admitted are qualified 410 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 11: to be admitted. 411 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: But it speaks to a fundamental disagreement or misunderstanding. You 412 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: can choose the word over the concepts of institutionalized racism. 413 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: Doesn't it. 414 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 11: I think it does. But also it speaks to the 415 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 11: spin that's put on affirmative action, and that's what I 416 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 11: think he just did. 417 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: Also, well, so the President says he's going to talk 418 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 2: to the Department of Education, Marrick Carland said the same thing, 419 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: to find out what is possible. Now, there are different 420 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: ideas here that might not include checking a box. Congresswoman, 421 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 2: what would work? 422 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 11: I would be more interested to see in what the 423 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 11: Department of Education is going to consider, and also what 424 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 11: Mary Garland is talking about too. I haven't seen the 425 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 11: whole I've been running around, so I haven't seen everything yet. 426 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 11: But I mean, I think we need to investigate everything 427 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 11: we can and research everything we can to see exactly 428 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 11: what would work. 429 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: Would you support the President taking executive action to somehow 430 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: reverse this. 431 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 11: I would support it. Yes, I would support it because 432 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 11: I think that this decision is going to be detrimental 433 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 11: to many many young people. 434 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 2: So tell our listeners, Congresswoman, what are they saying on 435 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 2: the South side of Chicago today? Are they calling your phone? 436 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 2: You're getting text from everybody. 437 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 11: Just from other members. I haven't gotten I've been busy 438 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 11: running around, so I haven't gotten texts from friend friends, 439 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 11: but just from other members that are disappointed in the 440 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 11: decision and feel like the Supreme Court, I think Leda 441 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 11: Jeffries said, is turning a blind eye and you know, 442 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 11: forty years of a decision is being dismantled, a decision 443 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 11: that it's done, you know. Well, and again not just 444 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 11: for the student that was allowed to go to college 445 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 11: or admitted by the college, but they've been turned given 446 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 11: back to the United States. People aren't looking at that 447 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 11: part at the end results and have we've helped improve 448 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 11: someone's life and they in turn give back to us. 449 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you, did the Supreme Court just 450 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: make it easier for Democrats to get elected, much like 451 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: the Dobbs ruling appeared to do in the midterms. 452 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 11: Well, I hope the Supreme Court, you know, wakes folks 453 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 11: up that it's very important to get involved, as very 454 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 11: important to vote, it's very important to have your voice heard. 455 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 11: That it does make a difference. So I hope, yes, 456 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 11: that more people will vote and get their friends to 457 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 11: vote and family and young people. Yes, I hope that 458 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 11: that is one of the results of this. 459 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: We're spending some time with Congresswoman Robin Kelly, Democrat from Illinois. 460 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: We've got another big ruling, at least one more left. 461 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: It'll likely emerge tomorrow, Congresswoman, and that it has to 462 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: do with the forgiveness of student debt. After you saw 463 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: this six ' three ruling today, what do you expect tomorrow. 464 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 11: I'm usually an optimist, but I cannot say I'm an 465 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 11: optimist in this instance. But I can be surprised. But 466 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 11: after this ruling, I just I don't have a lot 467 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 11: of hope, but I would love to be wrong. 468 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: So if it is struck down and I know a 469 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: lot of people are predicting that, and it might well 470 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: be another six to three ruling, is there a legislation 471 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: answer so that. 472 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 11: The problem is there might be a legislative answer, but 473 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 11: it will have passed, and with us being in the minority, 474 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 11: I don't have a lot of hope for that, unless 475 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 11: you know there's a Republican that's willing to work with 476 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 11: us to see what the legislative answer could be. 477 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: Well, I ask you that because I know a lot 478 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: of Democrats, a lot of Democratic activists are very upset 479 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: with Joe Biden for not following through on this and 480 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: don't care if it's shot down tomorrow. They want the 481 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: president to figure a way to fix it. And I 482 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: say that congresswoman, knowing that millions of letters have already 483 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: gone out to folks telling them that their their debts 484 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 2: have been eliminated. How do you sweare that right? 485 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 11: Well, I mean, he tried to put some things into action, 486 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 11: but if he's taken to the Supreme Court and they, 487 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 11: you know, decide what they decide, his hands are kind 488 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 11: of tied unless there's some executive action that can be taken. 489 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 11: But we know executive actions are temporary under that president 490 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 11: and they only go But so far, I mean, we're 491 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 11: not going to give up. We're going to look to see, 492 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 11: you know, what we can do. 493 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: Are you upset with the president for not getting it 494 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 2: done yet? 495 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 11: You know what he has done so much good and 496 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 11: I know everything can't be done in a two year 497 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 11: period or you know, a two and a half year period. 498 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 11: We're still working on things. We've done a lot of 499 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 11: good things, you know, with the infrastructure build the Chips 500 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 11: sacked the the Reduction Act, and you know, the gun 501 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 11: violence prevention we passed the bipartisan bill. We've done a 502 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 11: lot of good things. But there's you know, there's more 503 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 11: to go. And that's just the bottom line of. 504 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: Heat as you know, I mean we're looking at approval 505 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 2: ratings for this in the low forties, upper thirties on 506 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: a bad day, and he's out there talking about Bidenomics. 507 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: To try to connect the dots between what you just 508 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: said and what people think and feel. And I wonder 509 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 2: what that means to folks in your districts who are 510 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 2: concerned about inflation. They're paying more for stuff, and you know, 511 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: the Chips Act isn't exactly a top of mind for 512 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 2: a lot of working people. 513 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 11: Sure, I mean that's leader. Jefferies created something called the 514 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 11: Regional Leadership Council, and we have regions, even though I'm Illinois, 515 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 11: but I have regions that include other states, and we're 516 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 11: trying to you know, get the word out, push the 517 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 11: word out, work without other colleagues to make sure that 518 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 11: all of these things we pass and implement it, and 519 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 11: then you know, trying to do a better job and 520 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 11: informing our constituent ones what actually has been you know, 521 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 11: going on. Just like in my district alone, there's four 522 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 11: bridges that are will be repaired. There's a new company 523 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 11: coming that will be a soul of arms. So just 524 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 11: you know, getting the info out. But as you know, 525 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 11: it's it's not easy, and people don't always pay attention, 526 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 11: and they pay attention to their as they say, kitchen 527 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 11: table issues. But but I think that he has done 528 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 11: more than many presidents before him as far as the economy, 529 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 11: as far as you know, the first black woman on 530 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,239 Speaker 11: the Supreme Court, getting other judges through the Senate. So 531 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 11: I think he's done a good job. Why the disconnect 532 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 11: and the you know, in the polling, even though there's 533 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 11: polling that shows that voters said they do support the 534 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 11: bipartisan infrastructure law and support the chips that and you know, 535 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 11: so he does have some support and they you know, 536 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 11: I've had constituents come up to me and thank me 537 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 11: that their insulin now costs thirty five dollars per month. 538 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 11: So I guess if it directly affects you. 539 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: You know you and that's something you can get your 540 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 2: arms around as opposed to so, you know, a generational 541 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: investment that might not do a lot to your your 542 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: kids are driving on the new highways. But it's not 543 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: lost on us that he chose your town. He went 544 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: to Chicago yesterday to deliver that Bidenomics address, and I 545 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: you know, he held a fundraiser last evening. How did 546 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 2: he do I. 547 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 11: Think he did. As far as his speech, I think 548 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 11: he did well. I don't know how he did with 549 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 11: the spot racer. 550 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: But you can drop numbers if you want. Would you 551 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: say you can drop numbers if you. 552 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 11: Want, Congresswoman, No, I don't know the numbers. I'm kidding you, 553 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 11: but no. I think he did a good job, and 554 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 11: he came to office with a clear vision of what 555 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 11: he wanted to do, create an economy that works for 556 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,959 Speaker 11: working families. And I think that because of what we 557 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 11: did in one hundred and seventeenth Congress, he is living 558 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 11: up to much of what he wanted to do, and 559 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 11: we are growing the economy, as he says, from the 560 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 11: middle out in the bottom up, not top down. 561 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you that the numbers are kind of 562 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: tough though. In Chicago, the jobless rate went from forty 563 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 2: three to fifty seven percent for black people ages twenty 564 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: to twenty four. I know that's a narrow slice in Chicago, 565 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 2: but it's a very important age group when Democrats are 566 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: trying to deliver a message. 567 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 11: Right but overall, this is the lowest unemployment for people 568 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 11: of color overall. I mean that's a Chicago issue that 569 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 11: you know, we all have to do something about and 570 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 11: connect those dots of people that are unemployed and jobs 571 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 11: that are available, because I speak to a lot of 572 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 11: businesses in Chicago and in my district, and my district 573 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 11: goes from Chicago to south of Danville that are desperately 574 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 11: looking for people. 575 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 2: So Congresswoman, I'm glad you could come see us. We're 576 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: going to be in Chicago for the convention. I hope 577 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 2: you'll meet us there. Congresswoman Robin Kelly, the Democrat from Illinois, 578 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 2: with instant reaction to the Supreme Court decision, as we 579 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,719 Speaker 2: get things started here on the fastest show in politics. 580 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 581 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 582 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 583 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 584 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 2: Not the first six ' three ruling this week, but 585 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: definitely the first along an ideological six ' three, as 586 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 2: the justices today said programs at Harvard College and the 587 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: University of North Carolina affirmative action programs violated the Constitution's 588 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 2: equal Protection clause. Writing for the Court, Chief Justice John 589 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: Roberts rejected contentions that the programs were warranted to ensure 590 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 2: campus diversity. Conservative justices were casting doubt on this idea. 591 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 2: I mentioned it a couple of minutes ago, of whether 592 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 2: the programs are needed and what the meaning of the 593 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 2: sunset period was in prior court precedent. This is sound 594 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: from arguments held on Halloween of last year, Justice Samuel 595 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: Alito challenging North Carolina's Solicitor General Ryan Park. His name 596 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: will represented unc. 597 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 10: What is your goal and how will a court ever 598 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 10: be able to determine whether your goal has been reached? 599 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 9: Our goal is to achieve the educational metaphys of diversity, 600 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 9: and I understand that that is a qualitative standard that 601 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 9: is difficult to measure. But I do not believe that 602 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 9: a standard merely being qualitative means that it is not 603 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 9: susceptible to rigorous reviews. 604 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: Assemble our panel. Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican strategists, 605 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 2: joined by Jim Kessler, Democratic strategist, Third Way Executive VP 606 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: for Policy, and former legislative and policy director to Chuck Schumer. 607 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 2: Great to have both of you with us here, Rick, 608 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 2: is this the win that many Republicans, including the speaker, 609 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: are making this out to be on a political level. 610 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean we've been debating affirmative action, certainly throughout 611 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 12: my career, the early campaigns against Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, 612 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 12: this was one of the hottest issues. So fifty years later, 613 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 12: we're having actually a very similar conversation and different than then. 614 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 12: This Supreme Court has made its position crystal clear. Right, 615 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 12: the positions that the Court took in the nineteen eighties 616 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 12: arguably confused the issues around affirmative action more than settled them. 617 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 12: And I think this Court has really laid down the 618 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 12: law and has settled the debate at least from a 619 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 12: legal construct, pretty clearly. But fifty years we've been talking 620 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 12: about this issue, and this is accumulation of a conservative 621 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 12: takeover the Court that brought us to the point where 622 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 12: we are today. 623 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 2: Jim, I'm not expecting you guys to agree on this. 624 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 2: What does this mean for education in America, for the 625 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 2: future workforce in America? 626 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 13: Well, look, I agree with Rick about that this debate 627 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 13: has been going on politically for fifty year and I 628 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 13: just want to point out that fifty one years ago, 629 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 13: the first black person graduated from the university of Alabama's 630 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 13: law school. So it wasn't that long ago that higher 631 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 13: education in much of the country was completely off limits 632 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 13: to African American people, and that the reason why we 633 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 13: have historically black colleges and universities was they were constructs 634 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 13: because you simply could not attend a college or a 635 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 13: law school, and Black people had to create their own. 636 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 6: You know. 637 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 13: Look, there is a view out there that America's race 638 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 13: problems are largely in the past and it's time to 639 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 13: move on, and that is a view shared by a 640 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 13: lot of people. And then there's another view that says, like, Okay, 641 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 13: we've made progress, but we haven't made enough progress. Affirmative 642 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 13: action is a tool to make progress, it is not 643 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 13: progress itself. I think this decision will have political ramifications 644 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 13: in elections, not as big as adopts. I don't think 645 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 13: it's adopts level decision, which I think is earth shartering. 646 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 13: But you know it matters. 647 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 2: Do you agree with that, Rick? Knowing that you're probably 648 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: not going to change your vote. Maybe you will vote 649 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 2: because of this, but you're not going to change your 650 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 2: vote the way Dobbs caused many suburban women to do. Oh, 651 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 2: I don't know. 652 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 12: I think this cuts across really traditional political lines. I 653 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 12: think you know, earlier conversations today resonated around not just 654 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 12: African Americans affected by this, but Asian Americans and Latino 655 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 12: I mean, there are a lot of different cross currents 656 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 12: to how affirmative action may have helped or hurt different 657 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 12: constituencies over that fifty year span. And so I think 658 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 12: the message is very similar to Dobbs, which is elections matter, right, 659 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 12: and then you're seeing the culmination of Mitch McConnell's master 660 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 12: plan for his legacy, which was to have a during 661 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 12: conservative majority in the Supreme Court arguably for the next 662 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 12: forty years. And so I think for the purposes of 663 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 12: people looking at how does this affect me, anybody who 664 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 12: did not vote who's a Democrat for Hillary Clinton in 665 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 12: nine in twenty sixteen should look at this decision and say, 666 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 12: you know, I could have had an impact on this. 667 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 12: And those things are incredibly valuable reminders in the election year. 668 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,399 Speaker 2: Specifically in the arguments, as I said Halloween of last year, 669 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 2: Justice Katanji Brown Jackson made the point that marking one's 670 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 2: race on an admissions form is in fact voluntary, and 671 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 2: of course that's right. He or she is in an 672 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 2: exchange that day with lead attorney in the UNC case. 673 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 2: His name is Patrick Strawbridge. He was representing students for 674 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 2: fair admissions. You'll hear both their. 675 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 14: Voices and you use raise your talent applicants that their 676 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 14: race matters, that it means something that is inherently divisive. 677 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 14: It gets us further away from a world where the 678 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 14: government treats race as irrelevant, but they're. 679 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 15: Offering it because they're saying the race, that race matters. 680 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 2: To me, Does the voluntary aspect of this inform your 681 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 2: view at all? Rick Well, I don't think. 682 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 12: It really informs the view on the legal basis, right. 683 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 12: I think that that practice probably overcomes, you know, the 684 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 12: the concept of voluntary review. And I think the Justice 685 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 12: has made it really clear that, you know, this just 686 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 12: flies in the face, you know, of a color blind constitution, 687 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 12: and there will be other ways to try and get 688 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 12: to it. And we've heard some of these discussions around 689 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 12: economic disparity and things like that, and even the administration. 690 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 12: I mean, it was pretty clear from President Biden's earlier 691 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 12: comments that he'll try to use things like executive orders, 692 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 12: which have been used in the past to ensure affirmative 693 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 12: action reaches into things like federal contracting and things like that, 694 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 12: so it'll be interesting to see, you know, sort of 695 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 12: the aftermath of this. But I think this court was 696 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 12: pretty clear and throughout that argument that just because it 697 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 12: was voluntary, it made it somehow better. 698 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 2: Let's get into the president's view of this. Jim Kessler, 699 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 2: he says he's calling up the Department of Education right 700 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 2: now to talk options. Is he going to be working 701 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 2: on an executive order that might make a dense in 702 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 2: this ruling. 703 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 13: I think he's going to try. And you have to 704 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 13: remember that Joe Biden as president because of African American people, 705 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 13: and it's not African American people who elected him in 706 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 13: the general election, which of course they did, but they 707 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 13: elected him in the primary. In the first three primary 708 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 13: states New Hampshire, lily white, Iowa even whiter, and Nevada, 709 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 13: which has people, you know, definitely a fair amount of 710 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 13: people of color but mostly Latino, he did not do well. 711 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 13: It wasn't until he went to South Carolina, which is 712 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 13: really the first black primary, and he won so and 713 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 13: then he swept all the way through. So African Americans 714 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 13: put him in and I think he's you know, I 715 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 13: think this is in his heart, but it's also when 716 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 13: it makes political sense for him. I also believe that 717 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 13: colleges are going to find a way, you know, to 718 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 13: have diversity that somehow that you know, without checking that box. Yes, 719 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 13: And you know, I just went through this process myself. 720 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 13: I've an eighteen year old who's about to go to 721 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 13: school who also happens not to be white. So you see, 722 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 13: when you go to colleges, the selling point is diversity. 723 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 13: That's what That's what students want, that's what a lot 724 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 13: of parents want. So I do think you're going to 725 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 13: find work arounds there. 726 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 2: Rick Davis, we've got another big ruling comments on student 727 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,720 Speaker 2: loan debt relief. Does it look like another six three 728 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: ideological ruling tomorrow? 729 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 12: Well, I would say that there's much less ideology around 730 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 12: paying for student debt relief by the federal government. Uh 731 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 12: uh and maybe more related to what the executive branch 732 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 12: can do without concurrence from the Congress and and so 733 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 12: uh this may follow along separation of powers lines and 734 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 12: and so it'll be interesting because, uh, this group of 735 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 12: Supreme Court justices have sort of shown a lot of 736 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 12: deference to federal decision making as they did, you know, 737 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 12: in earlier decisions, so which I think surprised people. So 738 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 12: I'm not sure it's a slam dunk ideologically based on 739 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 12: what the Court's been doing up to now. 740 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 2: You think it's struck down, Jim. 741 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 13: I do. 742 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 6: It. 743 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 13: I've never thought this pasted constitutional muster. Uh. This is 744 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 13: a very large executive branch reach. I'll be honest with you. 745 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 13: I don't I don't like the policy either, but. 746 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 14: You know. 747 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 13: It's we've seen, you know, to Rick's point, we've seen 748 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 13: the Supreme Court respect executive authority, maybe more than we expected, 749 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 13: but there were some places where definitely they said executives start, 750 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 13: it was overreached, particularly on some environmental areas. We'll see. 751 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 13: I mean, this could be six ' three, this could 752 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 13: be nine zero, this could be four to five. 753 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 2: But you both see you going down. Jim Kessler and 754 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 2: Rick Davis will stay with us. 755 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 756 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 757 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 758 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 759 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: flagship New York station just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven. 760 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 2: Thirty, another breaking news day here in Washington, thanks to 761 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court effectively barring universities from using race as 762 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 2: a factor in admissions. Affirmative action as we know it 763 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 2: has been ended by the Supreme Court voting six ' 764 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 2: three today along ideological lines, and there are questions, as 765 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 2: we were discussing with Rick and Jim about whether this 766 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 2: will resonate on the campaign trail the way the Dobbs 767 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 2: decision did. For instance, we reassembled our channel now with 768 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 2: Republican strategist Rick Davis and Democratic strategist Jim Kessler. Jim, 769 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 2: can Democrats turn this into an opportunity? Knowing as well 770 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 2: as we've already discussed here it's likely that student loan 771 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,280 Speaker 2: debt will be struck down tomorrow, how does Joe Biden 772 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 2: turn that into an advantage on the trail? 773 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 13: It can be a bit of an advantage with minority voters, 774 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 13: particularly African American voters, in terms of making sure that 775 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 13: turnout is high in a general election and also making 776 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 13: sure that they don't drift off to a third party 777 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 13: candidate like Cornell West, who right now is running as 778 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 13: a minor party candidate. I do believe that the Dobbs 779 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 13: decision is really the Supreme Court decision that is going 780 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 13: to upset the apple cart in the selection and has 781 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 13: repercussions that we saw some in twenty twenty two. I 782 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 13: think that is going to be the dominant Supreme Court 783 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 13: decision that impacts the twenty twenty four race. 784 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 2: You seem skeptical before Rick and Joe Biden put these 785 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 2: rulings together to make a more compelling case. Well, I 786 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: agree with Jim. 787 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 12: I mean, the Dobbs case has already shown political resonance 788 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 12: in the midterms. We know that abortion has been a 789 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 12: hot button political issue and largely divided along partisan lines 790 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,919 Speaker 12: like affirmative action has been. So I think, as Jim said, 791 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 12: I mean to motivate people to vote. These are supercharged issues, 792 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 12: both of them and mostly for the Democratic base at 793 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 12: this stage. And if the Biden campaign can figure out 794 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 12: a way to communicate, frankly better than the press event 795 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 12: that he just did, where I must admit I was 796 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 12: trying to I was paying attention intently, and I have 797 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,919 Speaker 12: absolutely no idea what point he was trying to make. 798 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 12: If he can clean up that message, he's got a 799 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 12: chance at motivating people. But I also watched Cornell West 800 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 12: earlier today and he had a much better take on 801 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 12: affirmative action than Joe Biden does. So watch out for 802 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 12: that Green Party. 803 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, Jim, you've got your concerns about a 804 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 2: third party candidate, which is a whole separate conversation. But 805 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,280 Speaker 2: we do have new numbers out today on the Republican field. 806 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 2: It's Fox News this time, sample sized about a thousand. 807 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 2: Take it for what it's worth here at this stage 808 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 2: of the race, but it sure seems consistent with every 809 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,800 Speaker 2: other poll we're getting lately. Trump fifty six to Santus 810 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 2: twenty two. Pence we go down to single digits at 811 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 2: that point, Pence four, everybody else on down when you 812 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,800 Speaker 2: get Christy Hutchinson Elder tied at one. But Mike Pence 813 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,800 Speaker 2: makes news today if he's going to win a race. 814 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 2: He just won the race to Kiev, the first Republican 815 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 2: presidential candidate to go to Ukraine. 816 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 12: Smart move, Rick, Yeah, I think brandishing your foreign policy 817 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 12: credentials for someone who has come out of four years 818 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 12: in an administration, you know, having seen it from the inside, 819 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 12: and drawing some attention at a very critical time in 820 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 12: the Ukraine War was really smart on his part. And 821 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 12: I think, you know, it also shows that Republicans and 822 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 12: leadership positions people running for president. It kind of puts 823 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 12: a bar up there to say, you know, who's out 824 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 12: there back in Zelensky and the Ukrainian people versus some 825 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 12: of the noise we've gotten from the Putin coalition that 826 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,400 Speaker 12: we have in the House of Representatives. 827 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 2: Does that mean they all need to go now? 828 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 3: Jim? 829 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 13: Is that in New Hampshire. I mean, look, I'm glad 830 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 13: that he went, and he needs something to spark that race. 831 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 13: But you know, somebody better come out of New Hampshire 832 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 13: putting it dent into Donald Trump or he's got this 833 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 13: is gonna be a cakewalk for him. And you know, 834 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 13: I know Ron DeSantis went down to the to the 835 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,280 Speaker 13: border and my id was, that's the wrong border, the 836 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 13: Canadian borders where you should be going to. But you know, 837 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,839 Speaker 13: Trump right now is just it's a nice threw butter there. 838 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 13: Now things changed between now and you know the first 839 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 13: of the nation caucuses and primaries, but so far nobody 840 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,320 Speaker 13: is really getting it. Any other attraction betides the Santis 841 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 13: a bit, and he seems like a bit of a 842 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 13: thinking balloon. 843 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 2: M I've got one more for you here. You mentioned 844 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis. He was asked at a recent town hall 845 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 2: in New Hampshire about January sixth, and his answer did 846 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 2: not satisfy everybody. A high school kid got up and 847 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,800 Speaker 2: asked him about the events of the sixth. 848 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 15: I wasn't anywhere near Washington that day. I have nothing 849 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,799 Speaker 15: to do with what happened that day. Obviously I didn't 850 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 15: enjoy seeing you know what what happened. But we've got 851 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,360 Speaker 15: to go forward on this stuff. We cannot be looking 852 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,319 Speaker 15: backwards and be mired. 853 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 13: In the past. 854 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 2: So we got some applause on it. Chris Christy was 855 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 2: asked about it last night on CNN, and he clearly 856 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 2: saw that as a massive dodge. 857 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,800 Speaker 6: I said to him, the last time I had a 858 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 6: Townholm met, he was out of mine. 859 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 2: See if anything, I should set this up. By the way, 860 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 2: he started by identifying the high school kid who asked 861 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,320 Speaker 2: the question because he knows him from I guess a 862 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 2: lot of town halls in New Hampshire. 863 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 6: I said to him, the last time I had a 864 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,799 Speaker 6: Townholm met, he was out of mine. See if any 865 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 6: of the candidates will answer your questions. Directly and grade 866 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 6: them on it. I suspect when I go back and 867 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,640 Speaker 6: see Colin in New Hampshire next time I'm up there, 868 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 6: Santus is going to get an F for that answer. 869 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 2: He had a much longer answer the way he would 870 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 2: answer it. Jim, do you agree? Is that an F? 871 00:48:58,800 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 6: That's an F? 872 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 13: And a couple of things we learned here. New Hampshire 873 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 13: is a small enough state. Did you know the name 874 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,719 Speaker 13: of the high school kids that is showing up at 875 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 13: your event? That's number one and number two? And I 876 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 13: know Rick Davis can speak to this because he was 877 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 13: involved in the McCain race. Yeah, you can't be a 878 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:22,719 Speaker 13: candidate who is always careful about what you say. If 879 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 13: you want to take off in New Hampshire, you have 880 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,239 Speaker 13: to seem like you're a ball on fire, and you 881 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 13: know that you're a bit of a maverick, right and 882 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 13: Ron Desanta seems scared and scared does not win in 883 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:35,720 Speaker 13: New Hampshire. 884 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 2: What did you think of that whole exchange? Rick, would 885 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,319 Speaker 2: your candidate woul John McCain have known the kid's name 886 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,840 Speaker 2: from high school after three town halls? I mean that's 887 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 2: some pretty good politician. 888 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,320 Speaker 12: No, I mean this is what you get in New Hampshire. 889 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 12: So what's so great about New Hampshire? Right, Well, I 890 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 12: mean high school kids go to town halls. Where else 891 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,040 Speaker 12: does that happen? And they go to a lot of them, 892 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 12: and everybody does. And this is why retail politics is important. 893 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 12: But more importantly, you want him coming back, right, You 894 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,800 Speaker 12: want to have a lot of people at your town halls, 895 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 12: and so straight talk matters. And you know, we named 896 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 12: a bus after straight talk because we thought it actually 897 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 12: made a difference, and it does. You can't go up 898 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 12: there and spin voters like the like the Santis was 899 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 12: just doing and think that they're going to walk out 900 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 12: of there and say, oh yeah, I can't wait to 901 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,480 Speaker 12: hear that again. I can't wait for that next town hall. 902 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 12: I mean, he's just missing the whole point about New Hampshire. 903 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,840 Speaker 12: And frankly, I think the same applies to Iowa and 904 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 12: some of the things he said and done there. So 905 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 12: you know, in these states where they expect to get 906 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,920 Speaker 12: to know you, they want it straight talk. Unless you 907 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 12: can give it, he's not going to get it. 908 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,040 Speaker 2: This is why they all wish they had Rick Davis 909 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 2: running their campaign. Some final thoughts from Rick and Jim 910 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 2: Kessler straight ahead as we consider the life of another Maverick. 911 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 912 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 913 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, then 914 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,480 Speaker 1: tune in half Boomberg dot Com and the Bloomberg Business App. 915 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,480 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 916 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 917 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 2: The World of Politics Today. Remembering Lowell Weiker, who has 918 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,320 Speaker 2: died at ninety two. The former Republican congressman turned senator 919 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,600 Speaker 2: turned independent governor of Connecticut was known for bucking his 920 00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 2: own party at times, as we saw during the Watergate hearings. 921 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 2: We It was critical of Richard Nixon. Larger than life, 922 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,920 Speaker 2: He stood six foot six and will be remembered for 923 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,279 Speaker 2: introducing legislation that would later become the Americans with Disabilities Act, 924 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 2: and for instituting, at least if he lived in Connecticut, 925 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 2: a state income tax, which generated a monster protest. Forty 926 00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,200 Speaker 2: thousand people converged on the capitol, demanding lawmakers as the tax. 927 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 2: Some hanged Wiker in effigy that day, a nun told 928 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,720 Speaker 2: the Associated Press she would quote pray that he burns 929 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 2: forever in the fire of Hellot for trying to cut 930 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,360 Speaker 2: state aid to parochial schools. He's spoken hard for the 931 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,919 Speaker 2: day he announced his retirement, it was September of ninety three, 932 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 2: the man once called a maverick was being called a 933 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:12,279 Speaker 2: lame duck. 934 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,920 Speaker 10: If anybody looks upon this individual as a lame duck 935 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,080 Speaker 10: on a pond, you better think twice, because you're gonna 936 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,000 Speaker 10: find something coming out of Jurassic Park at you. 937 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,480 Speaker 2: I tell you, sense of humor goes a long way 938 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,839 Speaker 2: in that business. Rick Davis and Jim Casler, I'm guessing 939 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 2: you both spent some time with Lowell Wiker as veterans 940 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,839 Speaker 2: of the Senate. Rick, there aren't a lot of politicians 941 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:34,400 Speaker 2: left like that. 942 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 8: No, he was. 943 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 12: He may have been one of the original Mavericks. And 944 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 12: I knew another Maverick pretty well too, but he was 945 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 12: one of them. And gone are the days of the 946 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 12: sort of liberal republican you know that crossed the threshold 947 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 12: in the Senate. But you know, I read something today 948 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 12: calling him pugnacious, and. 949 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 2: I thought that, really, well, that's pretty good. Jim are 950 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,400 Speaker 2: there any politicians left in the Senate like Lowell Wiker, 951 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 2: and you know. 952 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,680 Speaker 13: I don't think so, okay. He felt that it was 953 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,120 Speaker 13: his duty to do things that were unpopular but right. 954 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 13: And you know, we'd like to see that happening again, 955 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 13: and perhaps it will. 956 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,960 Speaker 2: But you know it's rare, Okay, Yes, indeed, Rick Davis 957 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 2: and Jim Kessler. Great to have you both this hour. 958 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 2: Many thanks for the insights and a fascinating conversation you're 959 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 2: not going to hear anywhere else. Thanks for listening to 960 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 2: the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you 961 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 2: haven't already had Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get 962 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,760 Speaker 2: your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday 963 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,640 Speaker 2: from Washington, d C. At one pm Eastern Time at 964 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com