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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.

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Speaker 2: This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Calaan.

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Speaker 3: Here's Cal.

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Speaker 1: All right, Cal's week in Review Listeners, we got another

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Speaker 1: exciting interview segment. We're getting super political because we have

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Speaker 1: New Mexico Representative Gave Vasquez the Land of Enchantment with

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Speaker 1: us this week, and we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 1: of the federal level news that is pertinent across the country,

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Speaker 1: but also in Representative Asquez district in New Mexico. And

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Speaker 1: we're also going to talk about taking advantage of hunting

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Speaker 1: and angling opportunities near you when you're living life on

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Speaker 1: the road, such as are duly elected due when they're

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Speaker 1: bouncing back and forth between their home states and Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. So welcome Representative Asquez.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Cal, it's great to be on here with you today.

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Speaker 1: Well, great to haven't you. What for our listeners, what

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Speaker 1: is your district?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let me just say I have one of

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful districts in the Southwest. I'd say across

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Speaker 2: the nation. My district is bigger in size than the

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Speaker 2: state of Pennsylvania. Just for reference for our listeners, we're

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Speaker 2: home to two National parks, White Sands and Carsbad Caverns.

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Speaker 2: We've got four National forests that includes the Hila, the

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Speaker 2: birthplace of America's wilderness. We've got world class hunting and

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Speaker 2: fishing opportunities, tons of public land, and some really beautiful,

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Speaker 2: diverse communities, including seven different indigenous communities. We're also home

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Speaker 2: to the chili capital of the world, which is Hatched,

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Speaker 2: New Mexico. And so for anyone out there that puts

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Speaker 2: green chili or red chili in their recipes, I hope

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Speaker 2: it's coming from Hatch.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise it probably doesn't taste this good.

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Speaker 2: But to get a sense of it, it spans from

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Speaker 2: Albuquerque all the way down to the US Mexico border,

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Speaker 2: which is about one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred and eighty miles the entirety of the.

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Speaker 2: US Mexico border in New Mexico, and then from Arizona

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Speaker 2: to Texas, so it's really about half the state.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the largest districts in the country.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot, a lot to bite off.

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Speaker 2: And it's where folks come and hunt that orx that

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Speaker 2: everyone you know fantasizes about getting there there once in

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Speaker 2: a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: Tag.

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Speaker 2: I'm jealous because I've heard on many podcasts and for

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Speaker 2: many stories about out of staters getting that once in

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Speaker 2: a lifetime and I've been putting in for it for

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Speaker 2: about a decade now.

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Speaker 3: It's laughing front to tag.

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Speaker 2: But we're also home to the oryx, you know, barbary sheep, ibex,

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Speaker 2: some of the exotics that are out here too.

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Speaker 3: They're not fenced in, they're out in the wild.

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Speaker 1: I love New Mexico the sense of hospitality. New Mexican

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Speaker 1: hospitality is like a very real thing and very food centric,

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Speaker 1: which I love. New Mexicans by and large have a

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Speaker 1: real sense of pride in in their landscapes and their

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Speaker 1: their state and the opportunities and it's just, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a heartwarming thing to be around.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a slightly different culture than than what

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Speaker 1: I grew up with in Montana, but very similar in

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Speaker 1: the fact that people are are kind of tied to

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Speaker 1: the land, which yeah, I love.

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Speaker 2: No And I think if you look at the most

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Speaker 2: beautiful flag in the United States, that that is the

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Speaker 2: Sacred zea symbol from the Zia Pueblo, that that represents

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Speaker 2: a perfect unity amongst cultures and our ties to the land.

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Speaker 2: So if you ever wonder what that zia on that

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Speaker 2: yellow flag is about. It's about who we are as

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Speaker 2: cultures united and about our connection to the land.

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Speaker 3: So it makes sense that you'd say.

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Speaker 1: That, Oh, okay, so what you're You're a hunter and angler.

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Speaker 1: Give us a little sense of your background.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, so I you know, I grew up. I

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Speaker 2: grew up here along the banks of the Rio Grand,

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Speaker 2: both in Mexico and in New Mexico. And you know,

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Speaker 2: my first experiences were going out cat fishing with my dad,

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Speaker 2: my brother, sometimes my grandpa when he had some time,

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Speaker 2: and we spent most of our time underneath the overpasses

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Speaker 2: on I twenty five in places like Hatch or the

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Speaker 2: Messia Dam, fishing the mighty Rio Grand and mostly channel cats,

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Speaker 2: the occasional blue cat, and when we got lucky, a

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Speaker 2: flathead or two, especially if we're using bigger bait, and

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Speaker 2: of course all those annoying bullheads that you catch all

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Speaker 2: over the place, but of course don't make for good eating.

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Speaker 2: But that's really how I started. And my grandfather, his

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Speaker 2: name was Javier Banolos, and he lived in Siatuadas, Chihuaha,

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Speaker 2: and his passion was was hunted. He came from from

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Speaker 2: a small farming village called El Remorino or the Whirlwind,

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Speaker 2: in the central state of Sacatecas. And when he came

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Speaker 2: to the city, he missed the outdoors and and sustenance

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Speaker 2: hunting so much that he actually started the city's first

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Speaker 2: hunting club, so SATs They had a club called the Santaudos,

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Speaker 2: and my grandfather basically got a bunch of his buddies

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Speaker 2: together that came from ranches all across the country that

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Speaker 2: had moved to the border and moved to the to

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Speaker 2: the Frontea and they'd go out to the Sierra Madre,

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Speaker 2: better known as kind of the Copper Canyon for many folks,

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Speaker 2: and so at the at the northernmost easternmost edge the

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Speaker 2: San Luis Mountains, that's where you know, my grandfather would

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Speaker 2: take us.

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Speaker 3: You know, he had he had ten kids because.

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Speaker 2: He's Hispanic and Catholic, and so I was a product

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Speaker 2: of a big family. And and you know, you learn

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Speaker 2: all about the ins and outs of conservation and responsibilities

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Speaker 2: that you have.

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Speaker 3: And when your grandpa tells you to do something, you

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: But he also teaches you about you know, the things

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Speaker 2: you know why you can't keep a certain fish, or

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Speaker 2: that one time he got really mad at me for

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Speaker 2: actually putting a turtle back that we could have eaten,

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Speaker 2: and I said, I didn't think we ate turtles, and

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Speaker 2: he said, oh man, he said, you're not gonna eat

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Speaker 2: dinner tonight.

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Speaker 3: And so you learn those lessons early on.

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Speaker 2: But he hunted everything from from Koo's deer to puma

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Speaker 2: or mountain lion. Caught a ton of bass and lots

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Speaker 2: of hovelina as well, and that was all the food

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Speaker 2: that ended up going back on our plates. And so

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Speaker 2: at my grandma's house, where you had, you know, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five people running around every night to feed that

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Speaker 2: many kids and grandkids, you know, you eat what's on

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Speaker 2: your plate, and most of the time it was it

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Speaker 2: was wild gaming. And you know, that was a different

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Speaker 2: upbringing for most kids in a place that's industrialized. You know,

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Speaker 2: half a million people or more at that time in Chiahaguadas,

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Speaker 2: and so, you know, those that combination of experiences of

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Speaker 2: getting to experience the rivers of New Mexico, you know,

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Speaker 2: laying under the.

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Speaker 3: Stars with my dad and my brother and and then.

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Speaker 2: Going back to the city and seeing how much my

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Speaker 2: grandfather just cared for for the outdoors and and how

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Speaker 2: you know, how how dedicated he was to making sure

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Speaker 2: that with a family that big, he could still take

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Speaker 2: some time for himself and honestly, you know, some time

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Speaker 2: with his buddies too. My grandma wasn't too happy about

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Speaker 2: that when he'd be gone for four or five days.

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Speaker 3: But that's that's a little bit about how I grew up.

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Speaker 2: And you know, from there I went on to try

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Speaker 2: to hunt and fish as much as I could, and

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Speaker 2: so my go to was always walleye. So we've got

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Speaker 2: two reservoirs here, Elfant, but Kabaya Lake, and believe it

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Speaker 2: or not, there's some really good walleye fishing, at least

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Speaker 2: there wasn't that time when I was growing up, and

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Speaker 2: they make for the best eating, but also a lot

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Speaker 2: of white bass, a lot of black black bass, small

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Speaker 2: mouth and large mouth. And then eventually, you know, I

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Speaker 2: got into rabbit hunting, and from there it went into hovelina,

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Speaker 2: which is you know, that was how I learned how

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Speaker 2: to use a bow as well, because it's an easy

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Speaker 2: target and they're not that smart. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: worked my way up from there to at that time,

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Speaker 2: my grandpa had passed and and you know, I really

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Speaker 2: wanted to to get back into the tradition, the family tradition,

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Speaker 2: and so hunting coups deer out on the border or

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Speaker 2: something I really enjoyed doing. And any chance I get now,

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Speaker 2: you know, anything that I can learn, whether it's fishing

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Speaker 2: for HeLa trout or fishing for artichard and the Artic

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Speaker 2: tundra in Alaska, I'm all about it. You know, I

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Speaker 2: really cherish that time, especially now that I get so

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Speaker 2: busy these days.

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Speaker 1: Well yet it's it's hard when you have those interests

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Speaker 1: and then you take on a role, which is a

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Speaker 1: voluntary role. Nobody forced you into running for the House

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Speaker 1: of Representatives, and but there's some trade offs there.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, there definitely are.

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Speaker 2: I mean, just just the amount of space that that

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Speaker 2: you have to work with here in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: Is I just say, it's really annoying.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm used to big, beautiful, wide open landscapes

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Speaker 2: and you come here and you're cooped up in a

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Speaker 2: tiny apartment. If you're lucky to have a backyard, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a ten x ten little square and it's just

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Speaker 2: it's not home.

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Speaker 3: And so that transition coming from New Mexico to d C.

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Speaker 2: I think for many Westerners who are used to this

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Speaker 2: kind of lifestyle or who represent these rural districts, it

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Speaker 2: can be tough. You know, it can get kind of

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Speaker 2: claustrophobic at times. And so there's nearby trails here. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's local parks, places like Rock Creek Park, which I

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Speaker 2: spend a lot of time in, but they always have

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Speaker 2: something going on. Cal you know, there's there's so many

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Speaker 2: bikers and trailer runners and hikers, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, you name it.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like I can I can honestly get

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Speaker 2: on a trail here without seeing you know, two hundred

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Speaker 2: people on any given day. So you got to you

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Speaker 2: gotta search for places out in Maryland or Virginia or

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Speaker 2: West Virginia where I've spent some time as well, to

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Speaker 2: try to find that quiet in that piece when when

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Speaker 2: you can get away. But you know, there's there's a

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Speaker 2: guy I think you know him, Chris would from Trout Unlimited.

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Speaker 2: And when I when I first came here to d C,

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Speaker 2: I hooked up with Chris and he, you know, he

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Speaker 2: turned me onto a place called Fletcher's Coat and that's

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Speaker 2: still within the city limits. It's about I don't know,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five minutes away from where I live here

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Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill, and it sits on the edge of

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Speaker 2: the Cno Canal, right next to the Potomac, where you

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Speaker 2: have just this bunch of concrete that was dumped from

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Speaker 2: the construction of the Cno Canal and a bunch of

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Speaker 2: rocky slabs on the shore that that actually make for

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Speaker 2: some great cover for all types of fish.

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Speaker 3: And so I first got here and Chris and I

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Speaker 3: went out there.

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Speaker 2: We caught some nice stripe bass, and so I go

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Speaker 2: back when I can to fish there also now for catfish.

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Speaker 3: You know, they got a boat dock, so I ran,

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Speaker 3: I ran a kayak.

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Speaker 2: I bring my fishing rods, and I like to get

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Speaker 2: out there and paddle and find those holes. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you, the fishing set are not

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Speaker 2: great there except during the shad run, which I still

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Speaker 2: have yet to experience. But you know, I was there

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Speaker 2: just just last weekend, and there's actually a bunch of

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Speaker 2: guys that are that are out catfishing out there. You'll

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Speaker 2: see them along the side of the Potomac, and I

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Speaker 2: always wonder how the heck they got there, and they're

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Speaker 2: fishing with with fishing line and gatorade bottles, so I

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Speaker 2: suspect they may be fishing to for sesssenence as well.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there's there's more places out there that

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Speaker 2: you can get out. But it is a tough transition.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's cool that you're you're making

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Speaker 1: it happen though. You know, one of my consistent grapes,

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Speaker 1: especially during the beginning half of the year here, is

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Speaker 1: how in my belief system, any elected official who has

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Speaker 1: experienced public lands and what they can provide would not

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Speaker 1: be in the business of selling them off. And it's

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Speaker 1: that lack of connection. So you know, it's important to

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Speaker 1: me that even though the fishing may not be great,

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Speaker 1: you're still making it happen here and there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you still you still get to see

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Speaker 2: the osprays, You get to see those little leather back turtles.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what species they are, but they hang

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Speaker 2: out on the rocks a lot. You might get to

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Speaker 2: see bald eagle or two. That makes it all worth

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Speaker 2: it for me, and I need that time when I'm

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Speaker 2: out here, if i'm if I'm here long enough to

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Speaker 2: be able to enjoy a trip out there. It's really important.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, I've been trying to take my

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Speaker 2: staff out there too. You know, the the Anacostia River,

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Speaker 2: which is which is here as well, makes for some

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Speaker 2: great cat fishing. And in fact, you know, I took

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Speaker 2: one of my staff members out there just recently and

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Speaker 2: we were we're catfishing out.

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Speaker 3: On a little boat dock.

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Speaker 2: And the next actually within a couple of weeks, one

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Speaker 2: of my other staffers said, hey, you know, i'd really

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Speaker 2: love to go.

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Speaker 3: Can somebody take me fishing?

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Speaker 2: And she actually, you know, she works on her public

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Speaker 2: lands portfolio. She's also a vegetarian. She's okay with me

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Speaker 2: saying this, and so I said, are sure you want

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Speaker 2: to go cat fishing? And she caught her first catfish

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Speaker 2: just a few days ago. So this might just become

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Speaker 2: a ritual or write a passage for anyone who's employed

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Speaker 2: in our office.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of the things that we connected on

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Speaker 1: here is there's this article with the very catchy headline

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Speaker 1: congressman's dirty eating habits I could jeopardize path to the

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Speaker 1: majority for Democrats.

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Speaker 3: That's hilarious.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty weighted comment there.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's it's hilarious.

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Speaker 2: Because I you know, I look at where I come from,

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Speaker 2: or catfishing to us is a tradition. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: part of who we are because you know, many people

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Speaker 2: in the south and the Southwest, you know, where we

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Speaker 2: have warm waters New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, catfishing isn't looked

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Speaker 2: down upon. Catfish aren't dirty fish.

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Speaker 3: They make for really good eating. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: that's just how we grew up.

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Speaker 2: And so not everyone might understand that, you know, on

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Speaker 2: the East coast or or even up north. But I'm

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Speaker 2: proud that not only did I get started fishing on catfish,

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Speaker 2: but but I still enjoy it today.

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Speaker 3: You know, it brings back good memories.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, I think you and I talked

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Speaker 2: about this a little bit too, there are some some

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Speaker 2: lunkers out there. Wow, in the Potomac. I mean, look

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Speaker 2: at what guys like earning the hawk snatcher pulling out

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Speaker 2: of that river with in city limits. You know, you

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Speaker 2: see the Washington Monument back and then somebody pulling out

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Speaker 2: a sixty pound blue catfish.

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Speaker 3: There's truly some monster fish in there.

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Speaker 2: So it's you know, if you get out there and

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Speaker 2: you find those opportunities it's really cool, and so you

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Speaker 2: know they they'll try. As a politician, look, they'll attack

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Speaker 2: you for just about everything. You can't blink, you can't

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Speaker 2: take a step forward or backwards without somebody criticizing you

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Speaker 2: for it.

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Speaker 3: But that's the job that we take.

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Speaker 2: And if they're going to hit me on calf fishing,

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Speaker 2: then I'll probably defend that every day of the week.

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Speaker 1: Earnie the Hogsnatcher slowly becoming a national hero here by

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Speaker 1: the way, God just fishes. I love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is.

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Speaker 1: I know we're tight on time, which is my fault,

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Speaker 1: but what we have roadless rule right now. One thing

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Speaker 1: that hasn't like quite hit the presses is the fact

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Speaker 1: that the Ryan Sammarad, the lead attorney for the defense

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Speaker 1: side the Missouri fur on the Corner Crossing case, they

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Speaker 1: just submitted their brief to the United States Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: yesterday and we're gonna now it's kind of like in

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Speaker 1: their hands as to whether or not they're going to

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Speaker 1: hear the Corner Crossing case. But New Mexico it's relevant

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Speaker 1: because New Mexico is within the tenth surcit And I

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Speaker 1: haven't looked specifically on on X but I can imagine

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Speaker 1: there probably are some like corner locked lands within a

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Speaker 1: district that big in New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's there's a lot.

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Speaker 2: There's quite a bit and effect I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: before I got this job, I was out with my

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Speaker 2: Onyx app with my hunting buddies right that I hoe

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Speaker 2: down in Deming and we were mapping out some of

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Speaker 2: these corner crossing areas by ourselves so that we could

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Speaker 2: talk to the State Land Office. You know, New Mexico

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Speaker 2: looks maybe a little bit in terms of the challenges

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Speaker 2: that we have then places like Wyoming. But we do

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Speaker 2: still have a lot of checker boarded land. But what

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Speaker 2: we've seen in New Mexico is that a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks have made some backroom deals with the State Land

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Speaker 2: Office to you know, purchase these different little strips of

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Speaker 2: property that essentially, you know, prevent the access to thousands

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Speaker 2: of acres of federal land. I fought a big fight

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Speaker 2: at a place called the Phelips Canyon Road in a

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Speaker 2: very conservative county. This was in Chavis County near Roswell,

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Speaker 2: New Mexico, and asked some of the best barbary sheep

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Speaker 2: hunting and some pretty good elk hunting out there as well,

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Speaker 2: and this guy, essentially, you know, he wanted to have

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Speaker 2: a county road vacated so that we'd lose access to

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Speaker 2: about seven thousand acres of blm land. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we brought together hunters and anglers of all political stripes.

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Speaker 2: We went into that county commission meeting. We said, you

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Speaker 2: cannot vacate this road because you were essentially given seven

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Speaker 2: thousand acres to a private and and.

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Speaker 3: We think that might be against the anti donation clause.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot that we have here in the state

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Speaker 2: of New Mexico, and not just that, but this is

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Speaker 2: where our kids hunt, you know, and Barbari sheep hunting

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Speaker 2: out in that country is a big deal. And so

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Speaker 2: we were actually able to stop the vacation of that road. Now,

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Speaker 2: that was about ten years ago, and that was when

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Speaker 2: I was working at the New Mexico Wildlife Federation. So

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Speaker 2: we have those access issues here all across New Mexico.

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Speaker 2: They may look a little bit different, but I think

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Speaker 2: in general, look when we look at purposeful intent to

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Speaker 2: limit access to the public, and when private landowners have

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Speaker 2: essentially public land playgrounds that they market. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: seen these real estate ads that are out there that

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Speaker 2: basically say, you know, not only are you buying a

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Speaker 2: you know, ten thousand acre ranch, but you've got another

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Speaker 2: fifteen thousand acres to hunt on. And the way that

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Speaker 2: E plus and A plus are set up here in

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Speaker 2: the state of New Mexico is that you know, you

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Speaker 2: can essentially sell those out tags, those private tax or

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Speaker 2: analyot tags for ten twelve thousand dollars and you have

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Speaker 2: exclusive access just for you and your clients to both

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Speaker 2: hunt on your private property and your public property. So

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Speaker 2: I know there's been a lot of work done on that,

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Speaker 2: and I think this case in particular, look whether it

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Speaker 2: goes with a Supreme Court and successful or not, I

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Speaker 2: think this fight that is ongoing is really important for

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Speaker 2: us to have this conversation about what public land access

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Speaker 2: looks like. And one of my missions here in Congress

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Speaker 2: is actually we're working on some legislation now is to

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Speaker 2: figure out how to open up more landlocked public land

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Speaker 2: across the country and to be able to have the

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Speaker 2: purchasing power not through just LWCF, but also the support

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Speaker 2: of the Department of Interior, so that if we are

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Speaker 2: all in agreement and a bipartisan agreement that landlocked public

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Speaker 2: land does is no good unless you have a helicopter

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Speaker 2: that we should move forward in an aggressive way to

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Speaker 2: figure out how we can unlock the these lands. And

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Speaker 2: so I can't tell you what the Supreme Court is

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Speaker 2: going to do on this case. I can't tell you

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Speaker 2: what the impacts will be. I'm not a lawyer. I

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Speaker 2: do know that, you know, for for myself, you know,

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Speaker 2: I obviously would like to have a successful ruling on

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Speaker 2: this case that that confirms the lower Court's ruling. But

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Speaker 2: in the in this in the case that we don't,

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Speaker 2: it will be a setback. But I think that's when

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Speaker 2: we really turn on the gas and and say, if

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Speaker 2: it is the mission of the Department of Interior in

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Speaker 2: this administration and by partisan agreement, that we need to

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Speaker 2: open up more landlocked lands, then let's figure out a

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Speaker 2: way to do that. And I'll say I have a

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Speaker 2: bill to do that. So we're gonna we're going to

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Speaker 2: continue to work on that and hopefully roll it out

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Speaker 2: soon and hopefully it's something that this bipartisan Public Lands

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Speaker 2: Caucus can support too, which is something I started with

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Speaker 2: with Representative Zinki and we're kind of working on, you

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Speaker 2: know what pieces of legislation we're going to center around

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Speaker 2: this caucus.

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Speaker 1: Well, well that's exciting to hear, so please please let

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Speaker 1: us know, get us on the press list if when

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Speaker 1: you're ready to roll that language out. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: said the word intent, and it's from the very beginning

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Speaker 1: of this particular issue getting national interest. It's like most things,

399
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Speaker 1: just a little more complicated than the headlines lead people

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Speaker 1: to believe. And quite unfairly, every landowner gets lumped in

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Speaker 1: with the bad actors who have the intent to lock

402
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Speaker 1: up public ground from the public, which is unfair. And

403
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Speaker 1: the intent on an access seeker side actually has a

404
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Speaker 1: huge amount to do with this particular case where according

405
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Speaker 1: to the Unlawful Enclosures Act, if your intent is to

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Speaker 1: go from public ground to public round, that that's actually

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Speaker 1: what matters. And obviously, you know we have bad actors

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Speaker 1: on the hunting side of things too that could take

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Speaker 1: advantage of some of this. So, in my opinion, it

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Speaker 1: does need It's not going to be perfectly cut and dry.

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Speaker 1: Even if the Supreme Court weighs in in what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to say is our favor in the public access favor,

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Speaker 1: it's going to need a little more structure guardrails to

414
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Speaker 1: you know, ensure private property rights that we hold deer

415
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Speaker 1: in this country are are upheld well and respectively as

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Speaker 1: but it should be on the same status and tier

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Speaker 1: as the public access seeker.

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Speaker 3: That's my soapbox. No, I think you're right.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we want and you know, thousands of

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Speaker 2: people out there with step ladders going over pasture fences

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Speaker 2: across the West.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's the intent of opening up these opportunities.

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Speaker 2: I think it really just highlights a larger, larger issue

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Speaker 2: that to your to your point, needs more structure, it

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Speaker 2: needs it needs a way for us to responsibly access

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Speaker 2: those lands. And and you know that that may force

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Speaker 2: some negotiations between private landowners and and uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: departments of Wildlife and Game and fish and those kinds

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Speaker 2: of things, or some rulemaking, whether that's at the state

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Speaker 2: level or at the federal level. But I agree with you,

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Speaker 2: I don't think we want to also create an unecessary

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Speaker 2: burden the public to private landowners. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: know firsthand private landowners contribute to such important habitat work,

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Speaker 2: and and you know I'm a I'm a private land

435
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Speaker 2: rights guy in that sense, but I've also just like

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Speaker 2: there's bad actors on our side, there's bad actors on

437
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: their side too, and so we've got to come to

438
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 2: a consensus of how we solve some of these complex issues.

439
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: You brought up, Lwcful. We could talk about the Secretarial

440
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: Order three four four two that just came out, but

441
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: I know there's also a lot of implications in your

442
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: district regarding the Roadless Rule and yeah, the yeah, you

443
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: know the recision of that.

444
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the roadless Rule. This one's really important to me.

445
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: The Roadless Rule protects seven hundred and thirty thousand acres

446
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 2: in the Heala National Forest. And you know, you think

447
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: about our conservation legacy, the nation's first wilderness, the legacy

448
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 2: that Aldo Leopold left behind, and also a place that

449
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: is wholly in my district, and it's it's where I

450
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: go to find peace and where I go to fish

451
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: and camp and you know, take my family out there

452
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: and go sit in the hot springs. I mean, you

453
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: name it. It's a special place for me. And part

454
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: of the reason is that it is. It is remote,

455
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: it is remarkable, it is rugged, and you got to work.

456
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 2: You got to work to find those special places. It's

457
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: not like you know a national park where you can

458
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 2: drive into a visitors center and you know, buy a

459
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: couple of goodies and go on a trail and make

460
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 2: your way.

461
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: It's it's really a remote and beautiful place.

462
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: And so I think the truth is, like any other forest,

463
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, we have to have adaptive management for things

464
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: like wildfire suppression, and the twenty twelve Forest Rule that

465
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: many forests are implementing, including the HeLa, allow for that,

466
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: which means that you can you can change certain management

467
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: conditions on the ground on the fly, depending on things

468
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: like changing climate, extended drought, you know, wildlife corridors, and

469
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 2: you know, different things that come along the way. So

470
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: these new forest plans aren't as rigid as they were before,

471
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: and many of them hadn't been updated for twenty thirty years.

472
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: And so when we see the impacts of things like

473
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: overloaded fuels with recent fires in the HeLa like the

474
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 2: trapped fire and the blackfire, I do agree that we

475
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: have to do something to help clear some of that

476
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: deadwood to reduce that fuel load.

477
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: But the roadless rule is not the answer for that.

478
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: You know, we've got a dedicated set for service staff

479
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: and volunteers out there that are doing that work, prescribe

480
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: burns every year.

481
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: But you know, truth be told, cal we don't have

482
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 3: enough of them.

483
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: We need adequate staffing levels at the Force Service and

484
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: other land management agencies to put a debt in our

485
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: fuel load. And when it comes to timber harvesting, you

486
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 2: know the market and the volume, at least in places

487
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: like the Hila, they just aren't there, and as I

488
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: suspect that they're not there in other national forest But

489
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: this is being used as the principal reason to repeal

490
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: the rule. And so there are opportunities for partnerships already

491
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: and contracts that help produce things like biofuel and other

492
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: niche products in certain parts of the country that partner

493
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 2: with local businesses that are for profit. And so we

494
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: should really think about how we can support world communities,

495
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: in forced bedroom communities in particular that can benefit economically

496
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: from things like for thinning.

497
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 3: But I think.

498
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 2: Reviving a wholesale timber industry under the guise of repealing

499
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: the world this rule is just not going to happen.

500
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense for a place like the Hila.

501
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: So I'm a sponsor of the Roadless Worldless Area Conservation

502
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: Act and I'd encourage anyone listening to contact your members

503
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: of Congress invite them to join that bill as a

504
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: co sponsor as well.

505
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: Roadless Area Conservation Act. Do you want to tell us

506
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that one, because it's honestly

507
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: not on my radar. I will tell you I'd met

508
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: with two one retired for a supervisor last night and

509
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: one active for a supervisor last night, and this was

510
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: obviously the topic. So my research it essentially says that.

511
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it essentially codifies the rule. That's basically what it does.

512
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: So it makes it a congressional law rather than administrative

513
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: rule making.

514
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: Okay, it you know, my research says that the roadless

515
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: rule recision just simply cannot be about timber because even

516
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: the timber companies are saying this isn't going to make

517
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: economic sense.

518
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 3: That's right.

519
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: So, yeah, some of that mitigation work that you're talking about,

520
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: it does employ people. It is largely like physical manual

521
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: labors still in a lot of places, especially that steep,

522
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: nasty stuff, and there are some economic benefits to get

523
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: some of that stuff going. But that that domestic board

524
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: foot lumber scenario from everyone I've talked to, that is

525
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: not going to happen.

526
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it is.

527
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: And you know, I recently met with a bunch of

528
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: employees at the Forest Service.

529
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: Some of them are about to be riff. They're about

530
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: to lose their jobs.

531
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: And they had just come many of them working from

532
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: other industries, and honestly, a lot of them had gone

533
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: through a bunch of tough times in their life.

534
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: They came from Arizona, from Colorado.

535
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 2: Some of them were, you know, they're having personal issues

536
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: and they wanted to go out in the forest.

537
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: They wanted to work.

538
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: Hard, and they said the saddest thing about losing their

539
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: jobs and they were doing maintenance, you know, trail work,

540
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: thinning work, that kind of stuff. So the hardest thing

541
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 2: about losing this job is that this was the answer

542
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: for me when I needed most in my life.

543
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: And I don't make a lot of money.

544
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: I can barely get by, but being out here every

545
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: day and doing this work is so important to me

546
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: or important to me and my families.

547
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: You know, some folks bring their kids and their families down,

548
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: and that.

549
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: Was heartbreaking because there's not a lot of people in

550
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: this country that want to do that work. You know

551
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: that the amount of physical strenuous labor that you got

552
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: to do, and in remote areas in the case of

553
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: the Hila, you know, we got a huge chunk of wilderness.

554
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: So nobody's picking you up in the for service truck.

555
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: You're you're walking in and walking out for miles on end.

556
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: So you know, we need more of those folks. It's

557
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: gainful employment and rural communities. Those folks buy local homes,

558
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: you know, they go to local businesses.

559
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: We need more of that, not less of that. Yeah.

560
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: The one of the things that really got glossed over

561
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: during the early uh dose days is, Uh, every industry

562
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: has has some bums, has some folks that aren't shouldering

563
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: the load. But in this particular industry, Uh, there's a

564
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of people that are real civil

565
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: servants and they're they're working out there for us, for

566
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: for you and me, just as much as they are

567
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: for themselves.

568
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: That's right, And uh, you've.

569
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: Got to figure out a way to celebrate those folks

570
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: and lift them up and not concentrate on again the

571
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: the what I believe is the vast, vast minority who

572
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: they're not good at that job, and they weren't good

573
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: at the job they had before.

574
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: So that's right, that's right.

575
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much, Congressman for sharing some

576
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: time with us today. And you did a good job

577
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: of not talking about any specific honey holes there in

578
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: the DC area, so we're not going to add to

579
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: the overcrowding side of things, but it's good to know

580
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: that there's some opportunities out there as well.

581
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I encourage any of my colleagues or

582
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: anybody who comes and works in Washington. You know, it's

583
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: a little bit out of the way. There's a ton

584
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: of traffic on all these freeways. It's kind of a

585
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: heading to get out there, but it's totally worth it.

586
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: And I'm learning, you know, when I go out about

587
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: new ecosystems, neat birds, new species, new places to visit,

588
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: and it can really help cool down your internal temperature

589
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: of the politics of Washington, d C.

590
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: And I think hopefully we'll get to do a little

591
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: bit more of that here.

592
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: You know, I'm part of the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus and

593
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: you know, put together this Public Lands Caucus, so you know,

594
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: more and more folks are reaching out to me now

595
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: than tell me about some of those spots, and I'm

596
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 2: grateful for them, so keep it coming because I'm gonna

597
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: be here.

598
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: For a while.

599
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: So thank you so much, Kyle. Appreciate everything that you

600
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: do and look forward to seeing you soon