WEBVTT - Glenn Lowry 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.200 He's going to read his day. Hello, you're recording from 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:24.800 the Naisi, okay, So I'll just read this little thing 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:34.360 and then we can't talk. Today. I've come to New 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.440 York and I'm in one of my favorite places in 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.440 the world, the Museum of Modern Art, a place that 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.560 I have treasured since a young child from upstate New York. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.879 Beautiful spaces that are welcoming and exciting are crucial. That 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:48.839 is what we do in our own small way at 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.960 the River Cafe. And what Glenn Lowry has done here 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.840 in a big way over the past thirty years. Is 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.360 that right? Thirty years eight? Okay? I say, over almost 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:03.040 thirty years as director, he's transformed the collection, broaden the collection, 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.640 and turn the museum into a space where people cannot 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.600 only look at beautiful art, but meet sit in the 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.280 garden and eat delicious food. Glenn and I like to 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.280 bring the world of art and food together. At the 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.840 River Cafe. We're doing projects with Ed Ruschet and Damien Hurst, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.399 and one of my favorite drawings is a self portrait. 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.319 Ellsworth Kelly drew the River Cafe bathroom and a message 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.760 so I twombly left me on a menu after a 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.839 long lunch. If we have brought art to food, Glenn 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.440 has brought food to art with a fabulous restaurant, the 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.760 modern and small cafes throughout the building. Glenn is a 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.679 close friend of the River Cafe and a close friend 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.720 of Richard and mine. Today we're going to discuss food 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.200 and art, Art and food, our love for both and 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:53.559 our love for each other. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:55.520 So great to be here. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.400 Thank you. I said I was coming to the museum 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.240 and we'd be doing this interview surrounded by the greatest 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.280 start in the world, and I'm looking at four black 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.760 wolves two stories down. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.360 We'll have to do something about studio. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:08.959 They can know. 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:11.160 That's great. Actually, do you spend a lot of time 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:11.480 down here? 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.440 Do you record exodically? We were, you know, we we 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.600 we used to do a lot of audio guides in house, 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.639 and so we needed a recording studio for that. Now 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.679 they're produced all over the place, and so it's a 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:24.440 little bit different. 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.760 Do you have a podcast as museum have a podcast? 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.520 We have a thing called Post which is online. It's 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:35.480 not really a podcast, but we do a number of conversations. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.000 Is probably a better way of putting it in podcasts. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.519 Yeah, I actually did a little audio one for the 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.359 Custin Show. They came and asked me to talk about 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.040 because my father was a great friend of Philip Gustin. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:47.960 I didn't know that. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.760 You didn't know that. Oh yeah, I grew up in 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.400 Woodstock and so Philip was in our house all the time. Actually, 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.520 they liked the food my mother was cooked, you know, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.320 And I think music. His wife was a poet and 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.160 fill up the painter. What about artists and food. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.160 Oh, I think they go together. I can't tell you 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.400 the number of artists that I know who are either 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.960 fanatic about the food they cook or just love to 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.440 go out side Twombly. I mean, yeah, you know, lunch 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.760 was side Twombly or dinner with side Twombly was always 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:18.239 a feast. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.040 And what was it like? What are your memories? 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:20.280 Oh? 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.480 My memories were being out you know above Geita with 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.360 Sigh and some small hilltop town where Nicola had found 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.920 a fabulous restaurant and you know, lunches that would go 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.200 on for two or two and a half hours. But 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.440 the food would be absolutely spectacular. Of course, one of 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.400 the great things about Italy is the tiniest place can 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.520 produce the most delicious meal. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.840 When you see a three star Mischlin in Italy. I 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.720 always sort of avoid it. You want to go to 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:45.920 those small Oh yes. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.200 The magic for me of traveling around Europe in general, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:53.120 but particularly Italy is the serendipitous encounter with a place 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.000 that you'd never even heard of that creates a meal 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:57.120 that you'll never forget. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.240 Okay, So did you ever live in Italy as talking 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:00.520 about it? 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.320 No, Alas, I mean I spent a lot of time 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.360 in France. You know, I am, in fact French. So 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.640 now is well you have to go back to Livingstein. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.520 And my father was German, my mother was French. They 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.480 met during the Second World War. But I regained my 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:17.640 French citizenship a year ago. 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.159 Okay. So you were born in France, so is that 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:22.320 why or is it through your mother? 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.120 Through my mother? I was born in New York. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.159 Because I have a son who was born in Paris, 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.359 and I ever think, great, he's going to be you know, 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.080 can have French citizenship, but you have to live in 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.240 France between the ages of eighteen and twenty two. I e. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.560 Go to the army, right, you know, but I don't 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.080 know if that's changed. But that's cool that you've got 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:40.359 French citizens. 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.400 Yeah, Well, I've always felt French. 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:41.600 You know. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.520 It's a strange thing that because my mother spoke to 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.680 me in French from the moment I could speak, and 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.039 because we spent every summer there, and I have lots 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.360 of friends. I went to the Universitated cornob when I 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:59.720 was younger. It's in the blood, yeah, but and I 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.720 think what's in the blood is a lot for food, love, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.320 for all those things that were in the soul of France. 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:07.200 Did she cook? 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.120 My mother is a great cook. Is a great cook. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.280 She is, okay, tell me about her cooking. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.000 So she was a self taught cook. She was not 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.560 somebody who grew up cooking. But when she came to 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.240 the United States and subsequently married my father and then 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.760 had children, she had to learn to cook. And she 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.560 started by just following cookbooks. And in her words, it's 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.800 not actually that difficult. You just follow the recipe precisely until. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.520 You unless it's River Cafe cookbook rug, but. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.880 Until you get confident enough to play right. And she 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.360 she we grew up in a house where food was everything. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.799 Let's go to the very beginning. So where were you born. 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:44.560 I was born in New York City, but I grew 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.000 up in Williamstown, Massachusetts. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.000 Is your father involved with Williams No. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.280 My parents met because they loved to ski, and so 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:55.599 I was born in New York. My sister was born 0:05:55.640 --> 0:06:00.120 three years after me, and shortly thereafter they decamped to Williamstown, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.800 which is in the Berkshire northwest corner of Massachusetts, because 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.919 it was in ski country, so they just moved on 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:08.760 a whim and so that's where I grew up. What 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.960 was his job, I follow was an engineer, so the 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.560 weekends were for skiing, and as a child we grew 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.400 up skiing every weekend and eventually became a racer and 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:24.480 it was part of my life in France for all 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.039 over I was on the ski team of the university 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.400 and I was also racing on sort of the lower 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.120 level of the FIS circuit. So it's all good. I 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.080 still ski, but not nearly as much or the way 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.960 I would like to. I mean, it's pure pleasure, but 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.600 it's difficult when you live in New York City and 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:44.920 you have. 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.479 A day job whisky. As a family, it's always been 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.840 our thing of our holiday. Where do you school holidays? Well, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.719 we've gone back over and over again to Courchevell to 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.400 the to Valet, you know, because you can go from 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.800 Corshevell over mary Belle to you know, Valtorol and that's 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.280 a very very good skier and has children. So it's 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.760 kind of been our family sailing and skiing, but you know, 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.360 our part is much more the skiing. And I was 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.720 I have skied in this in vil and in Aspen 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.120 and recently in Tellyride, and we could go back to 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.520 food in that case, because there's no comparison, dare I 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:22.600 say between the food that you get on the mountains 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.920 in France. You know, that was a real awakening. This 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.840 was someplace they don't let you drink on the slopes, right, No, 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:29.640 it's terrible. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.240 I mean, you know, for all of the great restaurants 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.720 this country has today, and it does state the fact 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:41.600 that ski culture here hasn't generated the kind of ambience 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.280 that you have in Europe. We had for years and 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.880 years and years an apartment in majev so that's where 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.760 we would ski, and before that in Valdize when my 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.800 parents were younger, and you know, you'd spend the morning 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.800 skiing hard and then you'd find a little place to 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.040 have lunch and it would be a spectacularly delicious lunch, 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.800 simple but delicious. And then you go, you know, throughout 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.160 New Hampshire, for instance, and you go to these ski 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.240 resorts and you see these signs that say fine food 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.720 served here, and the only thing that was certain is 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.480 that the food wasn't fine. It's just a different it's different. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.080 We used to say, we used to fit a bit 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.040 of skiing in between, you know, good food. 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.360 Richard was absolutely passionate about the food and the because 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.400 he's loved ski. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.400 Till he was about eighty six. A friend of mine 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.920 who makes wine in Tuscany, mister Bonnicassi, he's called, He said, 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.400 is Richard skiing? I said, well, you know, he's finding 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.520 it a bit difficult now that he's sort of in 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.280 his early eighties. He said, oh, tell him to continue, 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.800 because I went through that in my early eighties and 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.360 then it came right back in my late eighties. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.840 Just requires patience. My mother's skied till she was ninety, 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.400 and every year from about eighty four or eighty five 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.440 till she stopped, she would buy new skis in a 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.040 new outfit and you'd say, Mom, but you only take 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:06.319 one run a year. That the great run like it 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:07.080 matters to me. 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:09.839 So back to the food your mother was cooking when 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.160 you were saying about cookbooks, because I learned to cook 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.480 through Julia Child, which is probably later, but I always 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.920 say reading Julia Child was it was like a science cookbook. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:19.079 You know. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.559 It gave you exactly the measurements, exactly the size of 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.199 the bowl, the spoon, the amount. It was so precise 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.760 and almost you couldn't make a mistake, and that gave 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.040 you the freedom to then experiment on your own. Do 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.079 you know what your mother used Julia Child. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.480 She did lots of other cookbooks, but I mean I 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.040 ended up getting one of her copies of Julia Child. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.199 She had several that you know, it was tattered, actually 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:47.880 in pieces. But I think that's what you learn about cooking, 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.200 that it becomes fun when you have the confidence to 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.960 an away go off piece to start experimenting and inventing, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.280 as well as following the directions. And also that you 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.480 can't really make a terrible mistake. Yeah, people worry that 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.280 it won't taste exactly the way they want it to, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.200 but every time you do something, you learn a little 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.960 bit about what you've done that lets you do something else. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.800 Did you participate with her in cooking. 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.680 No, I didn't actually start cooking, strangely, until I met Susan, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.720 my wife, and her father was an extremely good cook, 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.480 as well as her mother, of course, and he became 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.680 a kind of role model for me because on the 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.240 weekends he would do the cooking. He liked to cook 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.600 Chinese food because he had represented Chinatown in Montreal as 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:38.720 a Federal parliamentarian, and watching him cook and learning from 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.200 him just stayed with me. And I met him when 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:42.839 I was seventeen seventeen. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.880 Would meals be a very important part of your life 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.920 sitting down to dinner at night? Did you all sit, 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.760 you and your sister and your parents sit down meal 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:51.679 cooked by your mother? 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:56.000 Absolutely. We lived initially in a very small house and 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.000 then eventually my parents moved to a larger house. But 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.080 the meal was the key point in the day. And 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:04.680 my mother what time would it be? 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.720 Would it be would she'd go on French terms and 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.040 have dinner at eight or would it be earlier school? 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.840 It was earlier, you know, seven ish. I like to 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.440 eat late. Now. I don't remember what I like to 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.160 do when I was a child. I just ate when 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.040 when the opportunity was there. But my mother, you know 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.000 up until I was in seventh or eighth grade, maybe beyond, 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.480 which would bring me lunch at school because she just 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.920 didn't think the school would produce a good enough lunch. 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.400 So as a child, you were both teased because. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:36.240 It was that embarrassing. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.640 It was horribly embarrassing. But on the other hand, I 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:39.520 had a very good lunch. 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.640 Yeah, she'd actually bring it to you, or she'd give 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:43.199 it to you to take. 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.400 Sometimes she gave it to me. Sometimes she would. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.319 Be really embarrassing to have your mother come with a 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.040 plate of but nice, so nice. 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:49.400 You know. 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.400 My mother was is a fantastic mother. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:54.160 So she sounds great. 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.760 And she believes that, you know, if you don't have 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.400 a good meal, you're not going to have a good day. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.240 That's kind of where she's started that. Yeah, I do. 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.880 Yeah puts you know, let's put it this way. A 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.240 bad meal puts you in a bad meal. 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.480 Yeah. And so you grew up in this house. Did 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:08.520 you say your father cooked. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.440 No, My father once a year would make potato lotkis, 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:13.880 which was the one thing he could make. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:14.959 Where did he learn that? 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.040 I guess from his mother or his grandmother in Germany. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.920 But the kitchen was a disaster after that, So my 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.360 mother was never that keen to have to do it 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.920 because my father and cleaning up weren't actually synonymous. So 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.280 latkis were delicious, but they were a treat to be 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:33.079 had once a year. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.199 And so you grew up in this household of primarily French. 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.560 Food, almost always Bogigno. My mother would cook a fabulous lamb, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:42.720 you know. Every once in a while she'd do, you know, 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.040 a spaghetti of some sort, mostly spaghetti with meat balls. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.760 Very it was not her favorite thing to cook for 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.960 some reason, but and my father loved meat, so we had, 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.240 you know, probably the worst diet in the world. We 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.240 had a lot of pork, beef, lamb, but always cooked, 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.360 you know, even when it was a very simple my 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.840 mother had a way of cooking it perfectly. I remember 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.200 at some point a friend of hers told her about 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.160 kind of salmon. It was not quite a smoke salmon, 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.520 it was a cured salmon. So she started curing salmon 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.760 that was spectacularly good. I mean everything she touched, yeah, 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:15.920 turned out really well. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.520 I wonder if she could find the ingredients she wanted 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.160 in Williamstown. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:26.360 You know, there was a store half hour forty minutes 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.480 away that she would go to. And you know, it's 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.160 gotten better over time, and now when I go there 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.840 to visit her, you can get pretty much anything you want. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:36.920 But that certainly wasn't the case growing up. 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.800 What we did our first book, Random House had a 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.679 policy that whatever recipe you did had to be available 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.160 to their cookbook editor who lived in Maine, that within 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.760 fifty miles that she could get the ingredient. And now, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.600 of course with the Internet, it's all changed anyway. Everybody 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.079 can get everything. Yeah, did you go to France in 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.839 the summer? Did you go visit Where were your grandparents? 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.920 So my grandmother lived in Paris, and my cousins, who 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.319 also lived in Paris, spent the summers in Cannes, in 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.840 the south of France, so we'd go and visit them. 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:17.640 And then when I was eleven, was sent off to 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.600 live in the summer with some friends of my parents 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.360 in ex Leba in the Saboas, and I would go 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.400 and live with them for a couple of weeks, and 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:27.960 then I would go to ski camp for a couple 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.360 of weeks, and then I would come back and live 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.040 with them. So I had this kind of idyllic childhood. 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.000 It's such a regional cooking, isn't it The food that 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.280 you would eat in Paris or Normandy, It wo'd be 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.720 different from Brittany and from excell and France, from the 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.720 south of France, and it was very different. 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.400 Yes, that's that whole idea of teoir, that everything has 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.080 some kind of deeply rooted local dimension to it that 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.960 you can almost smell sometimes. Right, it's in the earth 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.200 and in the way things are made. So you can 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.240 have a chicken from Bresse in the savoir and it 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:02.120 won't taste the same. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.760 Yeah, just to have curiosity as a chef. Did she 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.640 cook a lot with butter? I mean, I love butter. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.360 It's very interesting because we have an Italian restaurant where 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.720 everybody's meant to love olive oil, and we all do. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.120 But when you get chefs around the table and we 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.000 talk about cooking with butter, you know it's so delicious, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:18.280 isn't it? 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.960 Creasy Messo never entered the house ever. Maybe why my 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:23.520 father had a heart attack at sixty. 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:23.960 Yeah. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.120 Did he survived in many good years after that. But no, 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:34.080 my mother cooked very traditional French food all the way through, 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.880 so her Bogignon was a very rich red land sauce, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:40.880 and in the same way that she'd make a rule with, 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.760 you know, the best butter she could find. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.040 Yeah, growing up with this food, the French culture, going 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:51.160 to Paris, you know, extremely elegant way of eating, going 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.280 to the savoir. How did this affect you? I mean, 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.000 did you have a standard of eating, of going out, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:58.640 going to restaurants. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.560 So it's interesting. I wasn't that conscious of it as 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.120 a child, because in fact, it just seemed normal. But 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.760 I realized by the time I was seventeen or eighteen 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.840 or even twenty, that one I loved going to restaurants. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.480 Two I loved to eat. That there was a certain 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.200 kind of pleasure that came with a meal that you 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.880 couldn't find otherwise in it. And a meal that had 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.240 been thoughtfully put together was even more interesting than something 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:27.400 quickly assembled. And when I met Susan and we met 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.400 when I was seventeen, what did you meet? We met 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.280 in Grenod. I was there to race and she was 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.600 there to study, and so somehow we got together. And 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.720 our favorite restaurant when we lived in Gronold was a 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.080 little Vietnamese place called the Poda La. I still remember 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.120 it vividly. This is like fifty years ago, but it 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.960 was exquisite Vietnamese food, and you learned quickly. And I 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.440 hadn't really had Vietnamese food before it had some Chinese food. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.080 You learned very quickly, at least I learned very I 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.120 have eclectic taste. I love Indian food and I love 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.640 Vietnamese food. I love new tastes that are unfamiliar. And 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.400 then you try to understand how how did that taste 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.000 come about? What had to happen to make chicken with 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.080 lemon grass taste the way it does. And sometimes these 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:11.919 things just sit in your mind, like I can remember 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.800 that restaurant as if it were literally yesterday. I actually 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.080 remember most meals I've had. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.119 I think people, that's what we enjoy about doing this, 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.480 is that food triggers. It's like a piece of music. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:23.880 You know. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.399 I can hear a song and remember where I was 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.679 standing when I heard that piece of music. And I 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.480 think food for many of us, maybe not is a 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.000 trigger for memory, isn't it Absolutely? 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.879 Because it's olafactory, right, It's got smell to it, it 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.440 has taste to it, it has texture to it has location. Yeah, right, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.399 you know, having the river cafe, which I have to 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.560 say this is not an advertisement. I'm just going to 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.639 say it's my favorite restaurant in London. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:50.600 It should come now. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.320 You know, I was supposed to be in London, but 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.760 I had a back operation that threw my schedule off, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:57.400 so I'll be there in the New York. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.560 Oh, it's a great season, and that's maybe now we 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.560 should be the recipe because I thought it was really 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.520 interesting that, you know, when you think about all the 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.680 seasons of food, we love when something goes and something 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.600 you know, when the fennel goes and then you have peas, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.320 or you know, the melons go and you can't bear it, 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.040 but then you have peaches. But for me as a cook, 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.439 I really look forward to the autumn. I think the 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.000 autumn is almost a cook's time when you have the 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.680 dark pumpkins. In England we have grouse, we have partridge 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.960 and now at last the porcini are really good and 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.640 we just yesterday gout white truffles are amazing. So it's 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.960 a very good season right now. So AS really pleased 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.760 that you chose a recipe which I love, which is 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.840 I think from the first book pasta with tomato and 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.000 a dried porcini mushroom. 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.280 So you start with seventy five grams of dried porcini mushrooms. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:53.000 I'm already salivating because I love porcini, four tablespoons botlive oil, 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.520 three garlic coves, peeled and sliced, one tablespoon of fresh 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:04.119 time leaves, two tablespoons of parsley finely chopped, one dried 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:09.639 chili crumbled, eight hundred gram tin of peeled plum, tomatoes 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.359 drained of their juices. One hundred twenty milli liters of 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.000 double cream. Can there ever be too much double cream? 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:17.520 I'm just asking, Is that possible? 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:17.600 No? 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:18.520 I don't think so. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:19.600 So we could add more to it. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.560 One hundred and twenty grams of parmesan, freshly grated, two 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.320 hundred and fifty grams of conchili, pasta sea salt and 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:32.560 freshly ground black pepper, and extravergin olive oil. So you 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.880 start by soaking the mushrooms in hot water for twenty minutes. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.520