1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: He's going to read his day. Hello, you're recording from 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: the Naisi, okay, So I'll just read this little thing 3 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: and then we can't talk. Today. I've come to New 4 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: York and I'm in one of my favorite places in 5 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: the world, the Museum of Modern Art, a place that 6 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: I have treasured since a young child from upstate New York. 7 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: Beautiful spaces that are welcoming and exciting are crucial. That 8 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: is what we do in our own small way at 9 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: the River Cafe. And what Glenn Lowry has done here 10 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: in a big way over the past thirty years. Is 11 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: that right? Thirty years eight? Okay? I say, over almost 12 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: thirty years as director, he's transformed the collection, broaden the collection, 13 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: and turn the museum into a space where people cannot 14 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: only look at beautiful art, but meet sit in the 15 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: garden and eat delicious food. Glenn and I like to 16 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: bring the world of art and food together. At the 17 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: River Cafe. We're doing projects with Ed Ruschet and Damien Hurst, 18 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: and one of my favorite drawings is a self portrait. 19 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: Ellsworth Kelly drew the River Cafe bathroom and a message 20 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: so I twombly left me on a menu after a 21 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: long lunch. If we have brought art to food, Glenn 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: has brought food to art with a fabulous restaurant, the 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: modern and small cafes throughout the building. Glenn is a 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: close friend of the River Cafe and a close friend 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: of Richard and mine. Today we're going to discuss food 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: and art, Art and food, our love for both and 27 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: our love for each other. 28 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: So great to be here. 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: Thank you. I said I was coming to the museum 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: and we'd be doing this interview surrounded by the greatest 31 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: start in the world, and I'm looking at four black 32 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: wolves two stories down. 33 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: We'll have to do something about studio. 34 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 3: They can know. 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: That's great. Actually, do you spend a lot of time 36 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: down here? 37 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: Do you record exodically? We were, you know, we we 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: we used to do a lot of audio guides in house, 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: and so we needed a recording studio for that. Now 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 2: they're produced all over the place, and so it's a 41 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: little bit different. 42 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: Do you have a podcast as museum have a podcast? 43 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: We have a thing called Post which is online. It's 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: not really a podcast, but we do a number of conversations. 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: Is probably a better way of putting it in podcasts. 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually did a little audio one for the 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: Custin Show. They came and asked me to talk about 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: because my father was a great friend of Philip Gustin. 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: I didn't know that. 50 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: You didn't know that. Oh yeah, I grew up in 51 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: Woodstock and so Philip was in our house all the time. Actually, 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: they liked the food my mother was cooked, you know, 53 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: And I think music. His wife was a poet and 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: fill up the painter. What about artists and food. 55 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: Oh, I think they go together. I can't tell you 56 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: the number of artists that I know who are either 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: fanatic about the food they cook or just love to 58 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: go out side Twombly. I mean, yeah, you know, lunch 59 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: was side Twombly or dinner with side Twombly was always 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 2: a feast. 61 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: And what was it like? What are your memories? 62 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 4: Oh? 63 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: My memories were being out you know above Geita with 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: Sigh and some small hilltop town where Nicola had found 65 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: a fabulous restaurant and you know, lunches that would go 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: on for two or two and a half hours. But 67 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: the food would be absolutely spectacular. Of course, one of 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: the great things about Italy is the tiniest place can 69 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: produce the most delicious meal. 70 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: When you see a three star Mischlin in Italy. I 71 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: always sort of avoid it. You want to go to 72 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: those small Oh yes. 73 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: The magic for me of traveling around Europe in general, 74 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: but particularly Italy is the serendipitous encounter with a place 75 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: that you'd never even heard of that creates a meal 76 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: that you'll never forget. 77 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: Okay, So did you ever live in Italy as talking 78 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: about it? 79 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: No, Alas, I mean I spent a lot of time 80 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: in France. You know, I am, in fact French. So 81 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: now is well you have to go back to Livingstein. 82 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: And my father was German, my mother was French. They 83 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: met during the Second World War. But I regained my 84 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: French citizenship a year ago. 85 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: Okay. So you were born in France, so is that 86 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: why or is it through your mother? 87 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: Through my mother? I was born in New York. 88 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: Because I have a son who was born in Paris, 89 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: and I ever think, great, he's going to be you know, 90 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: can have French citizenship, but you have to live in 91 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: France between the ages of eighteen and twenty two. I e. 92 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: Go to the army, right, you know, but I don't 93 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: know if that's changed. But that's cool that you've got 94 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: French citizens. 95 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I've always felt French. 96 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 5: You know. 97 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: It's a strange thing that because my mother spoke to 98 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: me in French from the moment I could speak, and 99 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: because we spent every summer there, and I have lots 100 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: of friends. I went to the Universitated cornob when I 101 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: was younger. It's in the blood, yeah, but and I 102 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: think what's in the blood is a lot for food, love, 103 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: for all those things that were in the soul of France. 104 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: Did she cook? 105 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: My mother is a great cook. Is a great cook. 106 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: She is, okay, tell me about her cooking. 107 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: So she was a self taught cook. She was not 108 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: somebody who grew up cooking. But when she came to 109 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: the United States and subsequently married my father and then 110 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: had children, she had to learn to cook. And she 111 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: started by just following cookbooks. And in her words, it's 112 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: not actually that difficult. You just follow the recipe precisely until. 113 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: You unless it's River Cafe cookbook rug, but. 114 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: Until you get confident enough to play right. And she 115 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 2: she we grew up in a house where food was everything. 116 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: Let's go to the very beginning. So where were you born. 117 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: I was born in New York City, but I grew 118 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: up in Williamstown, Massachusetts. 119 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: Is your father involved with Williams No. 120 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: My parents met because they loved to ski, and so 121 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: I was born in New York. My sister was born 122 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: three years after me, and shortly thereafter they decamped to Williamstown, 123 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: which is in the Berkshire northwest corner of Massachusetts, because 124 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: it was in ski country, so they just moved on 125 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: a whim and so that's where I grew up. What 126 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: was his job, I follow was an engineer, so the 127 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: weekends were for skiing, and as a child we grew 128 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: up skiing every weekend and eventually became a racer and 129 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 2: it was part of my life in France for all 130 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 2: over I was on the ski team of the university 131 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: and I was also racing on sort of the lower 132 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: level of the FIS circuit. So it's all good. I 133 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: still ski, but not nearly as much or the way 134 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: I would like to. I mean, it's pure pleasure, but 135 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 2: it's difficult when you live in New York City and 136 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: you have. 137 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: A day job whisky. As a family, it's always been 138 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: our thing of our holiday. Where do you school holidays? Well, 139 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: we've gone back over and over again to Courchevell to 140 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: the to Valet, you know, because you can go from 141 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: Corshevell over mary Belle to you know, Valtorol and that's 142 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: a very very good skier and has children. So it's 143 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: kind of been our family sailing and skiing, but you know, 144 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: our part is much more the skiing. And I was 145 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: I have skied in this in vil and in Aspen 146 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: and recently in Tellyride, and we could go back to 147 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: food in that case, because there's no comparison, dare I 148 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: say between the food that you get on the mountains 149 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: in France. You know, that was a real awakening. This 150 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: was someplace they don't let you drink on the slopes, right, No, 151 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: it's terrible. 152 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, for all of the great restaurants 153 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: this country has today, and it does state the fact 154 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: that ski culture here hasn't generated the kind of ambience 155 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: that you have in Europe. We had for years and 156 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: years and years an apartment in majev so that's where 157 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: we would ski, and before that in Valdize when my 158 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: parents were younger, and you know, you'd spend the morning 159 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: skiing hard and then you'd find a little place to 160 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: have lunch and it would be a spectacularly delicious lunch, 161 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: simple but delicious. And then you go, you know, throughout 162 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: New Hampshire, for instance, and you go to these ski 163 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: resorts and you see these signs that say fine food 164 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 2: served here, and the only thing that was certain is 165 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: that the food wasn't fine. It's just a different it's different. 166 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: We used to say, we used to fit a bit 167 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: of skiing in between, you know, good food. 168 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 4: Richard was absolutely passionate about the food and the because 169 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 4: he's loved ski. 170 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: Till he was about eighty six. A friend of mine 171 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: who makes wine in Tuscany, mister Bonnicassi, he's called, He said, 172 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: is Richard skiing? I said, well, you know, he's finding 173 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: it a bit difficult now that he's sort of in 174 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: his early eighties. He said, oh, tell him to continue, 175 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: because I went through that in my early eighties and 176 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: then it came right back in my late eighties. 177 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: Just requires patience. My mother's skied till she was ninety, 178 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: and every year from about eighty four or eighty five 179 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: till she stopped, she would buy new skis in a 180 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: new outfit and you'd say, Mom, but you only take 181 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 2: one run a year. That the great run like it 182 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: matters to me. 183 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: So back to the food your mother was cooking when 184 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: you were saying about cookbooks, because I learned to cook 185 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: through Julia Child, which is probably later, but I always 186 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: say reading Julia Child was it was like a science cookbook. 187 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 4: You know. 188 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: It gave you exactly the measurements, exactly the size of 189 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: the bowl, the spoon, the amount. It was so precise 190 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: and almost you couldn't make a mistake, and that gave 191 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: you the freedom to then experiment on your own. Do 192 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: you know what your mother used Julia Child. 193 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: She did lots of other cookbooks, but I mean I 194 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: ended up getting one of her copies of Julia Child. 195 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: She had several that you know, it was tattered, actually 196 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: in pieces. But I think that's what you learn about cooking, 197 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: that it becomes fun when you have the confidence to 198 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: an away go off piece to start experimenting and inventing, 199 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: as well as following the directions. And also that you 200 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: can't really make a terrible mistake. Yeah, people worry that 201 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: it won't taste exactly the way they want it to, 202 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: but every time you do something, you learn a little 203 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: bit about what you've done that lets you do something else. 204 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: Did you participate with her in cooking. 205 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: No, I didn't actually start cooking, strangely, until I met Susan, 206 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: my wife, and her father was an extremely good cook, 207 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: as well as her mother, of course, and he became 208 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: a kind of role model for me because on the 209 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: weekends he would do the cooking. He liked to cook 210 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: Chinese food because he had represented Chinatown in Montreal as 211 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: a Federal parliamentarian, and watching him cook and learning from 212 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: him just stayed with me. And I met him when 213 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: I was seventeen seventeen. 214 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: Would meals be a very important part of your life 215 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: sitting down to dinner at night? Did you all sit, 216 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: you and your sister and your parents sit down meal 217 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: cooked by your mother? 218 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely. We lived initially in a very small house and 219 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: then eventually my parents moved to a larger house. But 220 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: the meal was the key point in the day. And 221 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: my mother what time would it be? 222 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: Would it be would she'd go on French terms and 223 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: have dinner at eight or would it be earlier school? 224 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: It was earlier, you know, seven ish. I like to 225 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 2: eat late. Now. I don't remember what I like to 226 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: do when I was a child. I just ate when 227 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: when the opportunity was there. But my mother, you know 228 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: up until I was in seventh or eighth grade, maybe beyond, 229 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: which would bring me lunch at school because she just 230 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: didn't think the school would produce a good enough lunch. 231 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: So as a child, you were both teased because. 232 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: It was that embarrassing. 233 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: It was horribly embarrassing. But on the other hand, I 234 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 2: had a very good lunch. 235 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, she'd actually bring it to you, or she'd give 236 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: it to you to take. 237 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: Sometimes she gave it to me. Sometimes she would. 238 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: Be really embarrassing to have your mother come with a 239 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: plate of but nice, so nice. 240 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 5: You know. 241 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: My mother was is a fantastic mother. 242 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: So she sounds great. 243 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: And she believes that, you know, if you don't have 244 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: a good meal, you're not going to have a good day. 245 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: That's kind of where she's started that. Yeah, I do. 246 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: Yeah puts you know, let's put it this way. A 247 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: bad meal puts you in a bad meal. 248 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so you grew up in this house. Did 249 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: you say your father cooked. 250 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 2: No, My father once a year would make potato lotkis, 251 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: which was the one thing he could make. 252 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: Where did he learn that? 253 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: I guess from his mother or his grandmother in Germany. 254 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: But the kitchen was a disaster after that, So my 255 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: mother was never that keen to have to do it 256 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: because my father and cleaning up weren't actually synonymous. So 257 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: latkis were delicious, but they were a treat to be 258 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 2: had once a year. 259 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: And so you grew up in this household of primarily French. 260 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 2: Food, almost always Bogigno. My mother would cook a fabulous lamb, 261 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: you know. Every once in a while she'd do, you know, 262 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: a spaghetti of some sort, mostly spaghetti with meat balls. 263 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: Very it was not her favorite thing to cook for 264 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: some reason, but and my father loved meat, so we had, 265 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: you know, probably the worst diet in the world. We 266 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: had a lot of pork, beef, lamb, but always cooked, 267 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: you know, even when it was a very simple my 268 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: mother had a way of cooking it perfectly. I remember 269 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 2: at some point a friend of hers told her about 270 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: kind of salmon. It was not quite a smoke salmon, 271 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: it was a cured salmon. So she started curing salmon 272 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: that was spectacularly good. I mean everything she touched, yeah, 273 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: turned out really well. 274 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: I wonder if she could find the ingredients she wanted 275 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: in Williamstown. 276 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: You know, there was a store half hour forty minutes 277 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: away that she would go to. And you know, it's 278 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: gotten better over time, and now when I go there 279 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: to visit her, you can get pretty much anything you want. 280 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: But that certainly wasn't the case growing up. 281 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: What we did our first book, Random House had a 282 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: policy that whatever recipe you did had to be available 283 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: to their cookbook editor who lived in Maine, that within 284 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: fifty miles that she could get the ingredient. And now, 285 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: of course with the Internet, it's all changed anyway. Everybody 286 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: can get everything. Yeah, did you go to France in 287 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: the summer? Did you go visit Where were your grandparents? 288 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: So my grandmother lived in Paris, and my cousins, who 289 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 2: also lived in Paris, spent the summers in Cannes, in 290 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: the south of France, so we'd go and visit them. 291 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: And then when I was eleven, was sent off to 292 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: live in the summer with some friends of my parents 293 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: in ex Leba in the Saboas, and I would go 294 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 2: and live with them for a couple of weeks, and 295 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: then I would go to ski camp for a couple 296 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: of weeks, and then I would come back and live 297 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: with them. So I had this kind of idyllic childhood. 298 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: It's such a regional cooking, isn't it The food that 299 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: you would eat in Paris or Normandy, It wo'd be 300 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: different from Brittany and from excell and France, from the 301 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: south of France, and it was very different. 302 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: Yes, that's that whole idea of teoir, that everything has 303 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: some kind of deeply rooted local dimension to it that 304 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: you can almost smell sometimes. Right, it's in the earth 305 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: and in the way things are made. So you can 306 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: have a chicken from Bresse in the savoir and it 307 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: won't taste the same. 308 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, just to have curiosity as a chef. Did she 309 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: cook a lot with butter? I mean, I love butter. 310 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: It's very interesting because we have an Italian restaurant where 311 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: everybody's meant to love olive oil, and we all do. 312 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: But when you get chefs around the table and we 313 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: talk about cooking with butter, you know it's so delicious, 314 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: isn't it? 315 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: Creasy Messo never entered the house ever. Maybe why my 316 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: father had a heart attack at sixty. 317 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 318 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: Did he survived in many good years after that. But no, 319 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: my mother cooked very traditional French food all the way through, 320 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: so her Bogignon was a very rich red land sauce, 321 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: and in the same way that she'd make a rule with, 322 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 2: you know, the best butter she could find. 323 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, growing up with this food, the French culture, going 324 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: to Paris, you know, extremely elegant way of eating, going 325 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: to the savoir. How did this affect you? I mean, 326 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: did you have a standard of eating, of going out, 327 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: going to restaurants. 328 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: So it's interesting. I wasn't that conscious of it as 329 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: a child, because in fact, it just seemed normal. But 330 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: I realized by the time I was seventeen or eighteen 331 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: or even twenty, that one I loved going to restaurants. 332 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: Two I loved to eat. That there was a certain 333 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: kind of pleasure that came with a meal that you 334 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: couldn't find otherwise in it. And a meal that had 335 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: been thoughtfully put together was even more interesting than something 336 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: quickly assembled. And when I met Susan and we met 337 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: when I was seventeen, what did you meet? We met 338 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: in Grenod. I was there to race and she was 339 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: there to study, and so somehow we got together. And 340 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: our favorite restaurant when we lived in Gronold was a 341 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 2: little Vietnamese place called the Poda La. I still remember 342 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: it vividly. This is like fifty years ago, but it 343 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 2: was exquisite Vietnamese food, and you learned quickly. And I 344 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: hadn't really had Vietnamese food before it had some Chinese food. 345 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: You learned very quickly, at least I learned very I 346 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: have eclectic taste. I love Indian food and I love 347 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: Vietnamese food. I love new tastes that are unfamiliar. And 348 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: then you try to understand how how did that taste 349 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: come about? What had to happen to make chicken with 350 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: lemon grass taste the way it does. And sometimes these 351 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: things just sit in your mind, like I can remember 352 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: that restaurant as if it were literally yesterday. I actually 353 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: remember most meals I've had. 354 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: I think people, that's what we enjoy about doing this, 355 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: is that food triggers. It's like a piece of music. 356 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 2: You know. 357 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: I can hear a song and remember where I was 358 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: standing when I heard that piece of music. And I 359 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: think food for many of us, maybe not is a 360 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: trigger for memory, isn't it Absolutely? 361 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: Because it's olafactory, right, It's got smell to it, it 362 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: has taste to it, it has texture to it has location. Yeah, right, 363 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 2: you know, having the river cafe, which I have to 364 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: say this is not an advertisement. I'm just going to 365 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: say it's my favorite restaurant in London. 366 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: It should come now. 367 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: You know, I was supposed to be in London, but 368 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: I had a back operation that threw my schedule off, 369 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 2: so I'll be there in the New York. 370 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: Oh, it's a great season, and that's maybe now we 371 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: should be the recipe because I thought it was really 372 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: interesting that, you know, when you think about all the 373 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: seasons of food, we love when something goes and something 374 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, when the fennel goes and then you have peas, 375 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: or you know, the melons go and you can't bear it, 376 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: but then you have peaches. But for me as a cook, 377 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: I really look forward to the autumn. I think the 378 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: autumn is almost a cook's time when you have the 379 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: dark pumpkins. In England we have grouse, we have partridge 380 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: and now at last the porcini are really good and 381 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: we just yesterday gout white truffles are amazing. So it's 382 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: a very good season right now. So AS really pleased 383 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: that you chose a recipe which I love, which is 384 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: I think from the first book pasta with tomato and 385 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: a dried porcini mushroom. 386 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 2: So you start with seventy five grams of dried porcini mushrooms. 387 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: I'm already salivating because I love porcini, four tablespoons botlive oil, 388 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: three garlic coves, peeled and sliced, one tablespoon of fresh 389 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 2: time leaves, two tablespoons of parsley finely chopped, one dried 390 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 2: chili crumbled, eight hundred gram tin of peeled plum, tomatoes 391 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 2: drained of their juices. One hundred twenty milli liters of 392 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 2: double cream. Can there ever be too much double cream? 393 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: I'm just asking, Is that possible? 394 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: No? 395 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 396 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: So we could add more to it. 397 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty grams of parmesan, freshly grated, two 398 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty grams of conchili, pasta sea salt and 399 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: freshly ground black pepper, and extravergin olive oil. So you 400 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 2: start by soaking the mushrooms in hot water for twenty minutes. 401 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: Heat the olive oil in a pan and fry the 402 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 2: garlic gently with thyme, parsley, and chili. Add the porcini 403 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: and cook to combine the flavors. Add the tomatoes. Cook 404 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: together gently until the tomatoes have thickened. Add the cream, 405 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 2: season then remove from the heat and stir in half 406 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 2: of the parmesan. Cook the pasta and oiling salted water, 407 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 2: then drain thoroughly. Add to the sauce with the remaining parmesan, 408 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: stir well, add more parmeasan and extra virgin olive oil, 409 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: and delight in the taste. 410 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: Do you make a lot of pasta? I do, so 411 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: what is some of the what are you cooking now? So? 412 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,479 Speaker 2: Last night I made a pasta that I sort of 413 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: add libed on that we like, which is broccoli rob 414 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: and spicy sausage. Is very simple pasta pasta. 415 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: Did you use with it? 416 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: I just use linguini, something that just pulls the sauce 417 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: a little bit, and it's just like super simple. Broccoli 418 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: rob gives a little bitter taste, but it's super easy. 419 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: Do you buy the sausage meat out of the sausage 420 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: or do you cook the sausage and then crumple it. 421 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 2: I take the wrapping off the sausage and cook it 422 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: that way so it crumbles up. And I always put 423 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: a little bit of wine in and you know, some 424 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: cheese and. 425 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: That just for the two of you do you entertain? 426 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 2: We do? 427 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your If I come to dinner at the 428 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: Lowery House, what would it be like? 429 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: Nine times out of ten it's going to be some 430 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 2: form of lamb. We have a great producer of lamb 431 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 2: where we live in Canada. I mean just really epically 432 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: good lamb. And so we'll either grill it roasted cubit 433 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 2: and make shish kebabs, but mostly I like to do 434 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: a spit turned wood fired leg. This pretty hard to beat. 435 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: And how many people do you invite? 436 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: There are five of us with my children. Then when 437 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: we're up in Canada, Susan's brothers and sisters and cousins 438 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 2: are there, so we're usually at the get go between 439 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: twelve and fifteen. Then if we invite some friends over 440 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: pick we get to fifteen or twenty, so it can be. 441 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: A be a big Are you in the kitchen well yourself? Yeah? 442 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: Did you know? The River Cafe has a shop. It's 443 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbook, 444 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: bos Linnen Napkins, kitchen were toad bags with our signatures, 445 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: glasses from Venice, chocolates from Durin. You can find us 446 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: right next door to the River Cafe in London or 447 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: online at Shopthrivercafe dot co dot uk. Let's talk about 448 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: the museum Monarch, because I started out by saying that 449 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: food and art and art and food, and I have 450 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: to say I was saying to Zad before that. I'm 451 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: often ask in these question as you know, what's your 452 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: greatest luxury or you know what is your luxury? And 453 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: I always say, you know, you can keep your cavea, 454 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: or you can keep your champagne, maybe even a white truffle. 455 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: But for me, going to a museum when it's closed 456 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: is the greatest luxury. And I've had that luxury and 457 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: it really is to see art. But I have to 458 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: say that two weeks ago I was here and my 459 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: kids were here, and we all came here and it 460 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: was packed. It was full of people. There were babies 461 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: and children and people lining up, and actually I found 462 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: it so beautiful, so exhilarating to walk in. I think 463 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: all these people want to do is come to the 464 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: Museum Modern Art. They could have gone to Central Park. 465 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: It was a beautiful day. They could have gone a 466 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: boat down the river. They could have gone to a 467 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: football game. And I've been fine, But they were here, 468 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: and I love that, you know, I love that so 469 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: many people were here, and you know, congratulations, because I've 470 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: been to museums that are packed and you want to 471 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: run out the door. But it felt really good, and 472 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: I'm not just flattering you. It really did feel a 473 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: special to be here. 474 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 2: Well, I love it. I mean, the reason that I 475 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 2: enjoy working in the museum is because I love the 476 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 2: engagement between art and people. Right. I love to think 477 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 2: about art, to talk to artists, to look at art, 478 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: to write about art, to just meditate around art. But 479 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 2: I also feel that when you work with objects in 480 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: space with people, they come alive in a different way 481 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 2: and there's an incredible thrill and exhilaration really that comes 482 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: when you see people enjoying an exhibition or an installation, 483 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 2: or encountering a work of art they weren't expected to 484 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 2: see or not even knowing that it existed. And you'll 485 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: notice as you move around our museum that we've played 486 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: a lot with where we locate benches. Originally, when I started, 487 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: benches were always put in the middle of a room 488 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: because you assumed that circulation was the most important thing 489 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: and you didn't want to interrupt people's ability to move around, 490 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: and a brilliant art historian that we were working with 491 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: just before our last expansion said, you know, if you 492 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: want people to look at art, put the bench in 493 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 2: front of the object and they'll actually sit there and 494 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 2: look at what's on the wall, as opposed to sitting 495 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: on a bench and looking at their cell phone. So 496 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 2: we tried. We didn't actually believe her, but we tried 497 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: a few little experiments. She was completely right. So now 498 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 2: when I walk through the museum, what I love is 499 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: that you'll actually see two or three or four people 500 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: seated together, strangers looking at a work of art and 501 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: talking to each other about it. And it's that sense 502 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 2: of community that gets created in the space of a 503 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 2: museum that makes it so rewarding to be here. So 504 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you enjoyed it, because I get turned 505 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: on to a museum and see people. 506 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 507 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: No, it was really exciting to see that. But I 508 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: also think that Richard did the Pompatouo with Renzo piano. 509 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: Brilliant and broke and broke the old mold and created 510 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 2: the new mold. 511 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: Well, he did that music well. The very early, very 512 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: first idea of the escalator on the outside was that 513 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: you could come to a museum and not go look 514 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: at the art, you know, they could just take a 515 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: ride up the escalator, have a good time and then 516 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: maybe one person would say, oh, I'd like to go in, 517 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: or maybe everybody would want to go in. But there 518 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: was a restaurant always, you know, George is quite a 519 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: well known restaurant. Renzo Piano in Chicago has a restaurant 520 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: named after him, of course, called Tertzo Piano. So it's 521 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: a player on the word piano, Piano, the third Floor 522 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: and Renzo Piano. And here you have the Modern with 523 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: Danny Meyer. What it was your idea of putting a 524 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: really important restaurant in a museum. 525 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 2: So it goes back to this very simple equation that 526 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: looking at art is an incredibly pleasurable exercise and eating 527 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: at a museum should be equally pleasurable, and that there 528 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: was no excuse not to have an outstanding restaurant at 529 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 2: the museum, even though until we did The Modern, I 530 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: can't think of another museum that had a really great 531 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 2: restaurant and restaurants that were adequate, but not a place 532 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 2: that in and of itself was a draw. So working 533 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: with Danny and we interviewed dozens of restaurant tours. I mean, 534 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: actually it was quite a lot of fun because we 535 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: spent six months trying out restaurants all over town. 536 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: And then what year was it? 537 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: This goes back to two thousand and three when we 538 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: started to really put this all together, and then when 539 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: we met Danny and understood first of all that Danny 540 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: loves art. He comes from a family of collectors, he 541 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 2: grew up around museums, so he's totally comfortable with the 542 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 2: culture of museums. He's also an incredibly generous individual, but 543 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: he also loves hospitality and fine food, and so the 544 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: combination was perfect. And we actually set out with Danny 545 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 2: to say, can we actually build the best restaurant imaginable 546 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: for anyone, forget whether or not it's a museum. And 547 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: to his credit, he has really done a spectacular job. 548 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 2: As you know, it has a casual side to it 549 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: and a more formal side, but the food has always 550 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 2: been fabulous. And now we have a young chef, Tom 551 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 2: who is just knocking it out of the park. 552 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: And what is your involvement? 553 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: Our involvement is really quite passive. I mean, obviously, if 554 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 2: we see things that are troublesome. We talked to Danny, 555 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 2: but it is really a Danni Meyer restaurant. He and 556 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: his food group Union Square Hospitality Group are responsible for 557 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: operating it, managing it, and we have been consulted when 558 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: there have been changes in chefs, which is very nice 559 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 2: of Danny. But it's really a Danni Meyer restaurant at MoMA, 560 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: as are the cafes. 561 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: Tell me about the cafes, So the cafes. 562 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 2: Are really designed to be first of all, a completely 563 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: different kind of price point, so that more affordable, much quicker, faster, 564 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: less extensively prepared food so you can get in and 565 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: out relatively quickly, but still a place where you can 566 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 2: get a great panini or a great rigatoni al pomodoro 567 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: that's memorable that you can actually say, well, that was 568 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: the best panini I've had in a long time. And 569 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: they've worked very well. I have to say that the 570 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: menus are quite on the sixth floor. It's a very 571 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: small menus or super simple, a few appetizers, fehumanes and 572 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: a couple of desserts. Cafe two, which is the larger 573 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: of our cafes, has a much broader menu, and then 574 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 2: of course the Barroom and the Modern are full scale operations, 575 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: but I can honestly say I've never had a bad 576 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: meal at any of those places. And it's not just 577 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: because they know who I am. It's because Danny really 578 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: pays attention to the quality of the food. 579 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 4: Constant question that's interested in the way you describe the 580 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 4: restaurants and the cafes and the Edibyshire show is obviously 581 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 4: on the moment, which is just fantastic and everything. I 582 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 4: would like enough to interview him. Last year in Los Angeles, 583 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 4: I had his image of him in his studio in 584 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 4: the desert, very contemplative by himself creating his artwork. What 585 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 4: do you think it's like for him to come here 586 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 4: and see it viewed in these very very busy spaces 587 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 4: and the restaurants and the cafes. Do they like that 588 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 4: or do they think it should be more sort of 589 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 4: spiritual in the way all contemplative? 590 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 5: No. 591 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: I think most artists, and certainly artists of Ed's stature, 592 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: who enjoyed long and very successful careers. You know, you 593 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: make art to share it with people, and I think 594 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,959 Speaker 2: one of the pleasures of working with the curator is 595 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: you have an interlocutor who can help you see your 596 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: own art, perhaps in new and different ways, but who 597 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: can also tell a story with it for a public 598 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: perhaps that you're unfamiliar with. And I think Ed was 599 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 2: a little doe eyed. You know, he's a very love 600 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: he's such a such an unassuming man. I mean, it's 601 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: not that he's without ego, it's that he's just a 602 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: gentle person who doesn't assert himself in space. And yet 603 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: of course he's incredibly successful. And I think he was 604 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: a little doe eyed when people came for the opening 605 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: and it wasn't one or two people, but it was 606 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 2: hundreds and then thousands of people, all of them absolutely 607 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: goggle eyed at what he had achieved. 608 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 4: And I think he was like, Wow, I can't tell 609 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 4: you how people are talking about the chocolate Room. 610 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: You know, that's a great cutorial device. 611 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 4: It's sort of just absolutely can bring. 612 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 1: It to chocolate room. What was it like for the 613 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: museum to have that? 614 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it was incredibly complicated to experiment 615 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: with how to do it. The chocolate room is a room. 616 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: It was a kind of conceptual piece that Ed did, 617 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: I think first in nineteen seventy two or seventy four, 618 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: and it consists of hundreds of sheets of paper that 619 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: have been coated in chocolate. So the room has a 620 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: certain tonality shades of brown. But more importantly, it has smell, 621 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 2: and a deep, rich chocolate e smell that over time 622 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: tempers a little bit, so it doesn't smell today exactly 623 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: the way it did a month ago. But you begin 624 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: to smell it before you can see it, which is 625 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 2: what I like. So you're kind of pulled along by 626 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: this associative smell of chocolate that doesn't feel like it 627 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: should be in an exhibition. And then you see this 628 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: room and you marvel at the fact that actually it's chocolate, 629 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: but it's not chocolate you can eat. You're never going 630 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: to take one of those pieces of paper and chew it. 631 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 2: And there was a lot of experimentation of what kind 632 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: of chocolate would produce the right kind of tint, and 633 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: how would it sit on the paper, and how did 634 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: the paper have to be treated so that the chocolate 635 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: would remain because the chocolate retains a kind of monochromatic 636 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: flatness to it, but if it started to show pooling 637 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 2: of oil and modeling, it would be very different that 638 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 2: that kind of flatness would begin to discision. 639 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 4: I thought it was like being in some monks sell 640 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 4: Actually it's very strange experience. You have that richness of 641 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 4: the chocolate, but also that austerity of the space. 642 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: Right, and and those sheets they're pinned right, so the 643 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: sheets have a three dimensional quality to them. They're not 644 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: glued to the wall. They flutter a little bit. 645 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: If you like listening to Ruthie's Table four, would you 646 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on 647 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, o, wherever you get 648 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: your podcasts. 649 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 3: Thank you. 650 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: You talked about your mother and father and your grandmother 651 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: and Susan food. 652 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 2: What about your children so interesting? My eldest son is 653 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: a non eater. I mean he eats only because his 654 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: body needs it. Our daughter is an art historian, a curator. 655 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: She just opened a beautiful show of an artist, a 656 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 2: Columbian artist, Delsi Morello. She loves to cook. She loves 657 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: to cook, and she learned from her both of her grandmothers, 658 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 2: from her mother, from her father. She's a fantastic cook. 659 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: And it turns out our youngest son, the one who 660 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 2: is now a journalist and working in Jerusalem, also loves 661 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 2: to cook, and so Susan is constantly sending them recipes, 662 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 2: reminding them what to do. 663 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: You have your mother's recipes. 664 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 2: So long ago, my mother made one of the great 665 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 2: Kishas in the world. I mean truly a show stoppingly delicious, 666 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 2: simple quiche laur and it still makes, you know, a 667 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 2: cheesecake that I've never tasted better, but it is as 668 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: light as a soux fle And she has shared the 669 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 2: recipes with us on many occasions as we asked for them. 670 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: But what I've learned for my mother is, and this 671 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 2: happened with the Keish verses, she gave us the recipe 672 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 2: and then let's say three months four months later, I said, Mom, 673 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: you know, I think I lost her recipe. Can you 674 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 2: give it to me again? And she gave it to me, 675 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 2: and it was like, but I don't remember you telling 676 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 2: me about the tablespoon of flour. And what I learned 677 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: is that my mother will divulge a recipe, but never 678 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the recipe, so it's just little trick. Like, yes, 679 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: it's her little trick. Then you got to write each 680 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 2: one of them down and merge them together until you 681 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 2: get the whole recipe. 682 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 1: One of you should do it because it's a treasure. 683 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: You know, when you meet people who they say, oh, well, 684 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: my mother left me you know, a little book of 685 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: her recipes, and my grandmother left me a book, it 686 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: means a lot. 687 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 2: Oh yes, and then there you know, I think as children, 688 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: you grew up with those tastes, right, those tastes means 689 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 2: something to you, and then your children memory have those 690 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 2: memories of their grandparents because of the taste of eating 691 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: the cheesecake at your grandmother's that she cooked just for you. Right, 692 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: those things are special. 693 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: So here we are New York, which has incredible amount 694 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: of restaurants. I'm actually rather ignorant of New York restaurants 695 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: because either when I come it's a hurry, or I 696 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: eat with my family or friends in their houses. What 697 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: do you look for in a restaurant and what restaurants 698 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: do you particularly enjoy? 699 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 2: So I look for places that are casual. I'm not 700 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 2: necessarily that interested in a formal meal, though on occasion 701 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 2: that's that's nice. That are casual with outstandingly good food, 702 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 2: Places that really care about the quality of the food, 703 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: how it's prepared, how it's presented, and that make you 704 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 2: feel welcome even if you've never been there before, and 705 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 2: you know it's a trick, right. You can have a 706 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 2: really good meal and you're treated miserably and you probably. 707 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: Won't go back again. 708 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 2: You can have a mediocre meal where you've been treated 709 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 2: extremely well when you might go back. So when you 710 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 2: have a place that treats you really well, that understands 711 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: what the welcome should feel like, and the food is 712 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 2: exceptionally good, then you remember, right, it just gets seered 713 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: into your mind. You say, well, that's one of my 714 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 2: favorite places. Of course I'm going to go there. 715 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: And in New York where coming name names yeah becomes 716 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: are nice. 717 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 2: There's a restaurant that used to be seen down on 718 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 2: Chambers Street and then it closed and as a result 719 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 2: of the pandemic, but it reconstituted itself as Chambers. It's 720 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: an outstanding restaurant. The food is just always incredibly well prepared, 721 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,439 Speaker 2: and it's small and cozy. People treat you really well. 722 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite restaurants in the city. 723 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: Glen the question that we ask, and I'm sorry this 724 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: is coming to an end, and we could do part two. 725 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: When you come to the River Cafe, you could show 726 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: us how to cook lamb and if food alleviates hunger, 727 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: or as you say, if you're an athlete and you're 728 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: going to ski down a mountain or ride a bicycle 729 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: up a hell, or if you're going to feed your 730 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 1: children or you're in the country, it is a pleasure 731 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: to share. It's something that is healthy, it's something that 732 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: makes you work better and think better. But it also 733 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: is comfort. And there is a time in all our 734 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: lives when we need to turn to food for comfort. 735 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: And I was wondering, that's my last question to you 736 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: today in New York is if you're going to food 737 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: for comfort, what would that be. 738 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 2: There's nothing for me like a good slice of pizza. 739 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: I just take this and I like to make pizzas. 740 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: There's so much fun to cook and just you know, 741 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 2: a simple pizza, a little bit of tomato sauce, you know, 742 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 2: maybe some mozzarella, a leaf or two of basil, keep 743 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 2: it simple. I could eat that non stop all day long. 744 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's have pizza. 745 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: Question and wait, do you have a good pizza for you? Well, 746 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 2: this is one of the things New York does, so 747 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 2: you know, the people in New York get really bulshy 748 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 2: about pizza. So Roberta's is, you know, buying large considered 749 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 2: yeah in Brooklyn, sort of the gold standard. And I 750 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 2: like cooking my own pizzas. Honestly, there's something actually almost 751 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 2: alchemical about a pizza, right because of the heat of 752 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 2: the oven and the way both heats from below and 753 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 2: the convection above. And once you once you free out 754 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: how to get the taste you want, then you can 755 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 2: replicate it. But if I need to, if I have 756 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 2: this urge, this kind of when I have that deep 757 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 2: urge for a slice of pizza, honestly, almost any slice 758 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,720 Speaker 2: will do. Around here. There's a place called Angelo's. It's 759 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 2: not anything you wouldn't necessarily travel across the country for, 760 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: but when you really need a good slice of pizza, 761 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: it works. 762 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: Thank you. And you know, if food is art and 763 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: art is food, and museums or restaurants and restaurants or museums. 764 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 2: And chefs are artists. 765 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: And thank you, thank you. 766 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 5: Thanks So it's great, well and love we have time 767 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 5: to go and see the modern before leaving the museum. 768 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 2: Thanks, look at me. 769 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: And so we're just doing a podcast play And then 770 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say a few. 771 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 2: Words that. 772 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: You should if you're working here. 773 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 4: Ruthie's Table for is produced by Atimi Studios. 774 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 2: For iHeartRadio is hosted by Ruthie Rogers. It's produced by 775 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 2: William Lensky. 776 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Zad Rogers and Fay Stewart. 777 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 3: Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore. 778 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 4: Our production coordinator is Bella Selini. Special thanks to everyone 779 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 4: at The River Cafe.