1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this the 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. It is Thursday 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: if you're hearing this on the day it comes out, 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: which means, fellow conspiracy realists, it is time for our 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: weekly listener mail. Matt, Noel and I have scoured correspondencies 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: of varying sources right uh, some some sinister stuff, some 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: funny stuff, some mysteries, some global events, some micro cosmic events, 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: and as always, want to thank everybody who took the 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: time to reach out either at our phone number one 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: three std w y t K at our email address 18 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: conspiracy dieheart radio dot com, or you know saying uh 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: saying the name three times into a dark mirror. UH, 20 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: sorry if I spooked to UH with Today Today we 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: have UM, we have some really fascinating stuff. We ran 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: into something the spoiler alert that I was not aware 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: of over in Argentina um, and we'll get to that eventually, 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,199 Speaker 1: but maybe we start a little bit closer to home today. 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: Uh No, we received a fascinating email about a murder 26 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: mystery he did, and I know he says all the time, 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: and I think we typically follow through with this one 28 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: I do believe is full episode territory. UM. So I'm 29 00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: not going to go into all of them on New 30 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: just kind of set up the story because it is 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: one that I was not aware of, and it also 32 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: involves something that I think we all are excited about. 33 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: Is like old Hollywood kind of noir type historical murder mysteries. Um. 34 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: This takes all those boxes and it is a really 35 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: really interesting story. Hey, everybody, quick addendum here or predendum. 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: I guess I'm After doing this segment, we reference a 37 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: source that is Vanity Fair. Um that tells the amazing 38 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: story that we're about to share with you about Doris Duke. 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: What I failed to do in the segment was mentioned 40 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: the name of the writer, the incredible Peter Lance. You 41 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: can also check out his book Homicide at Rough Point, 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: which is available now anywhere you get books from Amazon, etcetera. 43 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: And find out more about this story. You can also 44 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: find out more about Peter's work at Peter Lance dot com. 45 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: We did, in fact decide after talking with Peter Um, 46 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: that we are going to do a full deep dive, 47 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: possibly two part episode about this subject. So in the meantime, 48 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: here's a little snapshot of the story or of Doris Duke, 49 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: the socialite who got away with murder. The subject line 50 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: of the email that came from a concerned citizen is 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: Doris Duke got away with murder. Whose Doris Duke you ask? 52 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: Not Patti Duke, no mind you. This is Doris Duke, 53 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: who was the heir to a tobacco fortune. She was 54 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: a multi billionaire one point three billion, and I guess 55 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: that's not multi. She had a single billion plus three 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: mill when she died at the age of eighty and 57 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: nineteen nine three and is largely remembered for her philanthropic works. Um. 58 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: She had an estate uh in Newport, Rhode Island that 59 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: was called rough Manner. Doesn't that sound like it's something 60 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: that's almost like a joke, like Faulty Towers, or like 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: what was the name of the the estate where you 62 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: know from Great Gardens, right, great gardens, rough manner. I 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: love it. It's kind of the screams old Hollywood and 64 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: uh in the fairy as activities to me. So let 65 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: me tell it back really quickly, sort of set up 66 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: my my initial excitement and surprise about the story. Um, 67 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: but let's read a bit of the email from a 68 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: concerned citizen. UM. Hello stt w I T gay Staddwick. Uh. 69 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: The t is silent. They don't want you to know 70 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: that the wealthiest woman in the world may have gotten 71 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: away with murder in nineteen sixty six. I'm a former 72 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: resident of Newport, Rhode Island. And while this summer playground 73 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: for the ultra wealthy has more than its share of 74 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: sordid stories, none are more prevalent than the rumor of 75 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: Eduardo Terrella's murder by Doris Duke. The story goes that 76 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: Eduardo Terrella was a longtime friend and art curator for 77 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: Doris Duke. He's also like an interior designer for several 78 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: of her estates. Um, but he decided to end that 79 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: relationship and moved to Hollywood to become a star. Uh. Duke, 80 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: who was known for her violent temper Um and an 81 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: escaped criminal charges for stabbing her common law husband a 82 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: few years prior, lured Terrella to her summer mansion um 83 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: known as Rough Point, under the guys of needing his 84 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: expertise to determine the authenticity and value of a statue. 85 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: Terrella and Duke went to purchase this artwork, but when 86 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: Edwardo got out to open the large iron gate, Doris 87 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: slid over to the driver's seat and the car lurched 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: forward and killed him, pinning him against the gates. Me 89 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: me talking um and they found him essentially like broken 90 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: and completely dead, wrapped up in the axle the rear 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: axle of the car. Um Back to the letter. She 92 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: claimed it was accidental and no criminal charges were ever 93 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: brought against her. There were always rumors that it was 94 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: intentional homicide, but the police were either bribed or intimidated 95 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: by the prospect of going against someone whose wealth was 96 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: second only to John D. Rockefeller at the time. Um 97 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: me against She came from tobacco money, which, as we know, 98 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: was big, big, big business back in those days when 99 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: it was just like, you know, the coolest thing you 100 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: could do was to smoke, and all the TV shows 101 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: were sponsored by cigarettes, and they weren't nearly the same 102 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: kind of you know, attention and awareness around you know, 103 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: how bad cigarettes were for you. So it was just 104 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: kind of like you had to ask people it was 105 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: okay not to smoke. It was it was absolutely a norm, 106 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, no question about um. Back to the letter. 107 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: She poured a lot of money into Newport after Terrella's death, 108 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: and her philanthropy has ensured her legacy and name still 109 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: play a major role in the culture and economy of 110 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: the city by the Sea. However, just this year, a 111 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: new witness came forward and the police open investigation. Robert 112 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Walker was a thirteen year old paper boy who witnessed 113 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: the incident, but he did not come forward at the 114 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: time because his father feared he wouldn't live to testify 115 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: if he had. Thank you for taking the time to 116 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: read this. I've been a listener for a certain amount 117 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: of time and would love I love that it's very 118 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: vague but very cool a certain amount of time. It's 119 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: like a man of a certain age or something. And 120 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: would love to hear what std W I t K 121 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: thinks about EDWARDO. Terrella's untimely death in Newport, Rhode Island, Sincerely, 122 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: a concerned citizen, um and uh this concern citizen linked 123 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: to several really really great sources, including a Vanity Fair 124 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: article from just July of last year, uh called homicide 125 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: at rough point. And Matt, you had some little takeaway 126 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: from just the image that is at the header of 127 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: this article showing uh Madam Duke Doris Duke and I 128 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: I immediately said she looks like a movie star, and 129 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: you said she looks like a little south I mean, 130 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: who knows how she was feeling when this this photograph 131 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: was taken, But she's definitely looking away and kind of down, 132 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: and she doesn't have you know, the look on her 133 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: face is just kind of blank. It's yeah, well they 134 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: chose that. I do agree that that's the kind of 135 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: look that a house cat gives you when you realize 136 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: if this thing was besides what, it would kill me. Right, 137 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: that's it's it's it's something. Her lips and her mouth 138 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: is set with the kind of edges sort of turned 139 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: down and the sort of partial frown, and you're right, mad. 140 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: The way she's looking away, kind of down and away 141 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: is very aloof and kind of the demuror. But more 142 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: than that, there's only there's sort of like an emptiness 143 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: kind of in her eyes. And whether or not she 144 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: did this thing, it was very clear that she was 145 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: a difficult person. I mean again she you know it 146 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: was and it was known that she stabbed her common 147 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: law husband and you know, got away with that. Um. 148 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: But here's the thing that's most interesting her a relative 149 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: of hers has actually said some really interesting things. UM. 150 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: In interviewing you know folks and sources for this piece, Uh, 151 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: the author, the writer encountered this quote from uh, Donna 152 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: lemy lomyer Um, who is Terrella's niece, and she said 153 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: that it wasn't just a cover up, but it was 154 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: something even worse. And this quote is very chilling. She 155 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: killed him twice, she destroyed his body, then eviscerated his memory. UM. 156 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: And the reason that that she's giving that pretty pretty 157 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: hot take, uh, is that in all of the writings 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: about this this woman, Doris Duke Um, in her obituary, 159 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: she's referred to and in referenced, you know, for her 160 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: philanthropy uh and as being this heiress to this tobacco fortune. Uh. 161 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: This incident is never given more than like a line 162 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: or two. UM. And even there there's a there's a 163 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: mention in this article about a biography of hers um 164 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: where the author essentially writes about her in these very glowing, 165 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: reverent terms. I learned a new word actually reading this article. Um. 166 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: The author of the book The Silver Swan in Search 167 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: of Doris Duke was a woman named Sally Bingham, and 168 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: the author of the Vanity Fair piece refers to her 169 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: reverence in the way she kind of writes about her 170 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: in these glowing terms as bordering on hay geography, which 171 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: is a word that I have not heard before, and 172 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: I'm happy to know what it means. It actually refers 173 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: to writing about the saints or like religious figures. You know, 174 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: you're speaking of people in these like deified terms. Um. 175 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: So there's more than a little bit of bias in 176 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: some of this writing about her. And again, Um, a 177 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: lot of that philanthropy, or at least a big burst 178 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: of it, came immediately following this incident. Um. She gave 179 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: something equivalent to two thousand dollars in today's um dollars 180 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: to restore historic cliff walk, which is like a public 181 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: kind of promenade, like they're behind some of these mansions, 182 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: these rows of mansions on the Newport shoreline. UM. She 183 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: gave around ten thousand bucks to Newport Hospital, which is 184 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: actually where she kind of hold up after this incident, 185 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: I guess, to get checked out, but maybe presumably also 186 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: not to be bother by the press. Um. And then 187 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: she also set up a Newport Restoration Foundation, which renovated 188 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: eighty four colonial era mansions and buildings across the city. UM. 189 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: And she had more than a bit of a cozy 190 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: relationship with some of the officials to who questioned her. 191 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: And there was even a situation where the chief of police, 192 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: a guy named Rattis um Are a d i c e. 193 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: When he retired, rather than the job going to the 194 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: next in command who should have gotten the job, it 195 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: actually leap frogged him and went to a third person 196 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: who was the one who interviewed her the night of 197 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: the event. UM. So there's just you know, a lot 198 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: of kind of sketchy UM, potential palm greasing is kind 199 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: of going on here, at least opportunities for it. UM. 200 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to go much further than this because 201 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: this the article is dense, and there's obviously a lot 202 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: of speculation around this and a lot of people coming forward, 203 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: uh to talk about this. So I propose that we 204 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: would do an episode on I think it's a really 205 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: fascinating story. Yeah. According to this Vanity Fair article, she 206 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: was making one million dollars a week in interest in 207 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: interest alone, right. I would also recommend, Uh, agreed, guys, 208 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: And I would also recommend for everybody listening now, if 209 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: you want a bit of an amuse bush, a bit 210 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: of an appetizer to the entree of Doris duke murder episode, 211 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: do check out our earlier episode. Does being wealthy make 212 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: you a bad person? The answer? The answer is chilling 213 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: and the more, um, you know, I personally hate judging 214 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: people by appearance, although I do think it's fun to, 215 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: you know, roast a photograph every now and then. Everybody's 216 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: got bad photos. That's just that's the reality. Um. But 217 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: if you were to describe her appearance in that Vanity 218 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: Fair article we've been mentioning, it does very much look 219 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: like the dispassionate gaze of a very wealthy person. She 220 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: was tight with Emelda Marcos, got her out of some 221 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: racketeering charges. Uh, it's first lady in the Philippines. Um, 222 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: this this goes deep, and I think this is also 223 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity to talk about other, um, other homicides committed 224 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: by the wealthy that are open secrets, such as the 225 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: chap Aquittic incident, which is the only reason that Kennedy 226 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: didn't end up being president. And that's actually something that's 227 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: uh sort of satirized in the first season of Succession. 228 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: If anyone's not wanting that show wants to have a 229 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: kind of a fly on the wall perspective in the 230 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: rooms where these kinds of high level you know, people 231 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: are hanging around making deals. That show I think does 232 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: it better than just about any of that I've ever seen. Um, 233 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: Ben you mentioned her relationship with Melda Marcos. She was 234 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: also really tight with Michael Jackson. Um, you know, once 235 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: you get to a certain level of wealth, you kind 236 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: of like those are the only real friends you can have. 237 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: It's like sort of the rules, right, Um, everyone doesn't 238 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: doesn't go by that, but like it certainly feels like 239 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: that ends up being the case. She also had a 240 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: long line of you know, gentlemen callers. Let's just say 241 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: she apparently had a very high sex drive and was 242 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: not ashamed of of of it at all and was 243 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: very open about her multiple relationships and you know lovers 244 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: and all that one of whom was General George Patton. 245 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: So she was rubbing more than elbows with some pretty uh, 246 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: pretty powerful folks. And you know, again, we do want 247 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: to treat this kind of as like in a moose 248 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: bousche like you said, been for will ultimately be a 249 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: pretty um filling meal. But we do know that she 250 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: fought quite viciously um in court uh to keep from 251 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: having to pay any kind of damages to the family 252 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: of this uh, this gentleman that that she killed Eddie 253 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: uh Eduardo Eddie Terrella. Um. He made you know, in 254 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: the last year of his life something in the neighborhood 255 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: of fifty thousand dollars would have been roughly three hundred 256 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: thousand dollars you know in today's money, um, And you 257 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: could easily be argued that he would have made money, 258 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, along those lines for many many years to come, 259 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: if not more, because he was heading towards a really 260 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: potentially lucrative career in Hollywood, like he had already. Um, 261 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: I think he had uh consulted on a Hollywood a 262 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: big Hollywood film had just come back from that and 263 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: that was why he was going to tell her that he, 264 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't gonna be working for her anymore 265 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: because he had this you know, new life that he 266 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: was going to pursue. Um. So the family I think 267 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: pursued a pretty modest some you know in in these damages. Um. 268 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: But she did everything in her power to make sure 269 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: that they got nothing um, which in and of itself 270 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: is a sign of kind of a coldness, you know. 271 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: But I say we leave it there for now, then 272 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: look forward to really digging into this this topic, because 273 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: the story's got a lot of twists and turns and 274 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: goes to some very interesting place, especially in the light 275 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: of new revelations. So let's take a quick break and 276 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: then come back with some more. Listener, ma'l you know right, 277 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: we're back and moving from rough point or rough manner 278 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: or whatever it was called, and we are heading to 279 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: a message from Will that you're about to hear in 280 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: your years. Hey guys, my name's Will. Um. I kind 281 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: of a story about my great Uh. He was three 282 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: star general in the Air Force named Probert Fond. He 283 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: crashed an enemy meg trying out of green Leg back 284 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: in the early eighties and died and due to that. 285 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: They very nearly had to had to make light of 286 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: several different government programs. Sorry, I kind of went blank, um, 287 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: but yeah, he crashed and crashed landed this may that 288 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: we weren't supposed to have a Groom leg government trying 289 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: to cover it up. Being a three star general is 290 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: a little harder than normal. But anyway, there's plenty to 291 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: read about it. I can send you some links or 292 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: something if you're interested, but something might be a rabbit 293 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: hole you want to go down. Um, feel free to 294 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: use my voice if you like, and you can contact me, 295 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: you know whatever. Thanks a lot. Here we go. Now 296 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: that's how you leave a voicemail. Yes, here I am. 297 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: Here's what I'm going to tell you, contact me, goodbye. Um. 298 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: And in this case, it's someone telling us just an 299 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: intense story about their relative, their great uncle, a three 300 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: star general in the Air Force, that crashed a MiG 301 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: and lost his life and it out of Groom Lake. 302 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: Of all the places. For anyone who doesn't just know 303 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: that term off the top of your head, that is 304 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: Area fifty one and the various areas out there in 305 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: the Nevada Test Site, as it is so lovingly known. Yeah, 306 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of like ah to you know what I mean, 307 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: where's area fifty nine? Yes, before we well, we'll get 308 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: to it. Just remind me to talk about area before 309 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: we leave this. So, I I mean, first of all, 310 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: thank you for telling us that story. My goodness if 311 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: you could not hear through the phone recording, because sometimes 312 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: the quality isn't that amazing just because of the system itself. 313 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: It is Lieutenant General Robert M. Bond, that is the 314 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: person whom Will is referring to his great uncle again, 315 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: Lieutenant General Robert M. Bond. You can search about him 316 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: if you wish, on the Air Forces website a F 317 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: dot m I L. You can read all about him 318 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: in his past, you know. Before we get into what 319 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: happened to him, I just want to talk about some 320 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: of the aircraft ben that I'm assuming you you know 321 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: over the years on car stuff, all things that float, 322 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: fly or drive no fly, swimmer drive yeah, fly drive anyway. 323 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 1: In my head, I don't know if I got it 324 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: fully correct, but I knew the essence of it. Um 325 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: just some of the aircraft that he flew over his 326 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: very long career. The Fight six Saber, which is also 327 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: known as the Saber Jet, is a very interesting piece 328 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: of machinery that was flown. I believe, oh gosh, fairly early. 329 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: I think it started maybe like just right at the 330 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: end of the World War two's, you know all of 331 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: them World War two's, um, it's like a street fighter 332 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: Vibe three, Yeah, yeah, exactly, so a cool plane, the 333 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: F one oh five thunder Chief, which is just a 334 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: awesome looking plane, the fighter bomber in the nineteen fifties, 335 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 1: there's the Phantom two or the F four, which is, 336 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: god man, just such just you can look all of 337 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: these up if you want to. I'm just right now 338 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: literally looking at their Wikipedia pages because you can get 339 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: through their through wiki commons. Some of the photography that 340 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: was released by the Air Force over the years really 341 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: cool to look at them. I remember as a kid 342 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: having posters of these kinds of fighter jets in my 343 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: room just because I thought they were so awesome. The 344 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: one that he was supposedly flying on the day that 345 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: he crashed and died, the MiG twenty three, which is 346 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: similar but not the same as the MiG twenty one, 347 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: which was a very famous Soviet Union fighter jet that 348 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: you've seen and probably make many I'm sure fictional stories 349 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: about that time. So well, let's talk about what happened, 350 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: why this was a big deal. Groom Lake Area fifty 351 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: one is still not an official thing for much of 352 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: the world. It's a rumor. Area fifty one somewhere out 353 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: there in the Nevada Desert. The government's doing weird stuff 354 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: out there with stuff that flies around. I'm not sure 355 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: what it is. Is it. Are they testing aircraft, Are 356 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: they you know, taking apart stuff that crash landed and roswell, 357 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: or maybe they're building new stuff from that roswell crash. 358 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: All kinds of rumors swirling about this place, Area fifty one, 359 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: which continue today obviously, but back then we're talking in 360 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. In this case, Area fifty one is very 361 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: much a legendary place, and Groom Lake Area twenty five, 362 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: all of those in the Nevada test site. So a 363 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: person with such a distinguished career within the Air Force 364 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: to be flying, essentially test flying a MiG Soviet fighter 365 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: jet in the nineteen eighties. Remember it war is still 366 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: going on, So the United States having access to Soviet 367 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: Union weaponry is you know, maybe not a super secret thing, 368 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: but it's at least something that you don't want to 369 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: openly talk about. If you're doing any kind of combat missions, 370 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: test combat missions with your enemies aircraft, that's probably something 371 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: you want to keep, you know, quiet about. So according 372 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: to the story, which you can find in several places, 373 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: I found it in Time magazine. It's an article titled 374 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: Mystery Flight over Nevada. It was published May fourteenth. You 375 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: can actually find that on content dot Time dot com 376 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: and shout out to Fred Hoffman, the journalist who originally 377 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: discovered the information, which, make no mistake, Uncle Sam was 378 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: ardently fighting to keep this all secret. I feel a 379 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: little Scooby Doo saying they almost got away with it too. Look, 380 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: I hadn't have been for those crazy MiGs right right 381 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: there we go. I mean it's also, you know, um, 382 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: in their defense, it makes absolute sense to keep that 383 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: as close to top secret as possible. And I think 384 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: they didn't even they they wouldn't even deny it, right. 385 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: It was one of those I can neither confirm nor 386 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: deny kind of situations. Until the article that you just 387 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: mentioned hit the press exactly. You can read it as 388 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: a very short read if you want to look into it. 389 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: But the official story when Time went to press with 390 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: This was that he was flying out of Nevada's Nellis 391 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: Air Force Range, and you know, while doing this test 392 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: flight from there, he did have another aircraft flying behind 393 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: him to kind of watch over him, but he was 394 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: flying a much faster vehicle, and yeah, it went out 395 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: of control, and unfortunately, he was unable to stabilize an 396 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: aircraft the aircraft once it went out of control, at 397 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: least according to the story that you can read now, 398 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: and he attempted to eject, and when he did so, 399 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: he was going very very fast. The estimates were around 400 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: mocked two uh when he actually attempted to eject, or 401 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: maybe perhaps a little bit slower than that. But his 402 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: parachute just got torn to shreds and he suffered injuries 403 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: as he attempted to eject, and he did not make 404 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: it um. The aircraft, it said, flew down at a 405 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: sixty degree angle into the desert. But just to jump 406 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: back to that article at the time when it was published, 407 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to read you a quote from it. Quote. 408 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: Then came an even more intriguing, though also unconfirmed report 409 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: Bond was actually flying a Soviet built MiG twenty three Flogger, 410 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: the primary fighter craft of the Soviet Air Force with 411 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: a maximum speed of some seventeen hundred miles per hour. 412 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: That possibility drew attention to a little known aspect of 413 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: American military training. The US has managed to assemble a 414 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: mini squadron of between four and fifteen of these floggers, 415 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: that's the big fighter jets, as well as at least 416 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: a dozen of the more easily obtainable Big twenty ones. 417 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: And it's a really interesting thing where it gets into 418 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: arms deals where the United States purchased these these craft 419 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: from Egypt because Egypt they were good friends with the 420 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. There was a lot of arms trading going 421 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: on between those two parties. And then the United States 422 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: came in and said, hey, let's we'd love to buy 423 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: some of those Soviet aircraft off of you so we 424 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: can use them for training. They probably didn't say that 425 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: in the room when they made the deal, but but 426 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: that's what happened, and it this whole story just makes 427 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: me imagine what the United States, what China, what Russia 428 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,239 Speaker 1: are all doing in their secret or as secret as 429 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: they can be, bases across the world right now, training 430 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: with other aircraft other you know, maybe naval vessels or 431 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: prototypes of such things UM or even you know, we 432 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: talked about a little bit before, I believe when we 433 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: mentioned the strange stuff going on at a test site 434 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: in China where where they had built like a mobile 435 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: version of an aircraft carrier that they could fire stuff at. 436 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: Do you remember this, yes, yeah, absolutely, And that's a 437 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: that's a normal thing to do. It's it's a very 438 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: smart thing to do, honestly, because you'll be able to 439 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: get experiential training, you'll have the um firsthand knowledge of 440 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: how things can play out. It's the reason why military 441 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: is conduct war games constantly, because all the technology that 442 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: you might possess or that you could buy or manufacture 443 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: isn't gonna be worth as much if you don't know 444 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: what the other side has. So they're definitely testing the 445 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: make weaknesses. They already knew about some of the stability issues. UM. 446 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: But right now it's safe to assume that multiple militaries 447 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: are doing their best to get the hardware from other militaries, 448 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: other foreign powers. That's why when the Osama bin laden 449 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: raid occurred, there was such to do about the stealth helicopter. 450 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: If you guys remember that that was one of the 451 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: big I was one of the big losses was that 452 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: copter crashing, And that copter, by the way, did not 453 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: officially exist until it crashed, right, Yeah, and there was 454 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: a whole mission to like figure out what to do afterwards. 455 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: Oh crap. Uh, well, you guys. It's making me think 456 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: more and more about the used arms trade or the market, right, 457 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: and we've we've talked about that a little bit before, 458 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: how much of the military equipment ended up going to 459 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: sheriff's offices and local police departments. When you're talking about 460 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: m wraps and some of those some of the other 461 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: weapons or even small arms, it may makes me wonder 462 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: about the bigger stuff that I don't think we've ever 463 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: covered on our show before, like what that actual market 464 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: looks like right now, and strategically selling your enemies and 465 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: others who may oppose you at some point your old 466 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: stuff while you're developing and building the new stuff. I 467 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: don't know. That to me is really interesting. Yeah, from 468 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: a K forty seven's to retrofitted carriers or destroyers. In 469 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: the world of maritime warfare, Uh, it is a huge 470 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: and silent industry and a lot of countries have deep 471 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: tension about who gets to sell what to whom you know, um, 472 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: and and not for nothing. I mean it's not a secret. Uh. 473 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: They don't talk about it too often in your mainstream 474 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: news outlets, but the US makes a ton of cash 475 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: selling weapons to other countries, and those countries do things 476 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: that do not align with US values as stated to voters. 477 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: That is like the most diplomatic way to put it. 478 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: And I also want to point out here at what 479 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: the general was doing at the time of his unfortunate 480 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: accident was a necessary thing. You had to test the craft, 481 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, and this guy had so much experience by 482 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: that point that he was he was probably at the 483 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: top of a very short list of people who both 484 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: had the clearance to fly a plane that didn't exist 485 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: and the know how to do it. But his age 486 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: was called into question almost immediately fifty four four and often, 487 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: at least from what I've been reading, you wouldn't send 488 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: someone up of that age in an aircraft alone like that. 489 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: You would have a co pilot for safety, just because 490 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: of the physical needs to to fly that plane. However, 491 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 1: he had just completed at least one major of his 492 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: of his fitness, and he you know, he passed it. 493 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 1: You know, also man, this brings up another question, a 494 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: bigger conversation, I would say, which is the cover ups 495 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: that occur when things go wrong during secret operations. You 496 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: know this is I mean, this is a real thing 497 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: and these are active conspiracies. Will first thank you so 498 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: much for sharing the story with us. But secondly, you 499 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: are far from alone, my friend. These are again active 500 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: cover ups. They are by necessity most times. But we 501 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: do live in a world where people can one day 502 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: get that letter that just says you know, your spouse, 503 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: your partner, your family member, your child has passed away, 504 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: and in some cases there might be a fake or 505 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: vague explanation, and in some other extreme cases there's no 506 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: explanation because to explain what happened would compromise whatever they 507 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: were doing, and that does occur. If you are hearing 508 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: this and you have a story similar to Wills, we 509 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: would like to hear from you, because I know they're 510 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: more out there. I know there are many many more 511 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: out there. When did this even go public? When did 512 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: that Times article come out? Again? You said Times? The 513 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: article came out very soon after, so I believe it 514 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: was in April of eighty four, when General Bond actually 515 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: passed and then this came out in May mid May. 516 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: And if that article hadn't have come out, would the 517 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: Bond family have learned the truth? I mean, journalists are 518 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: doing serious work. Also, I can't believe it just occurred 519 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: to me. Well, that is the coolest last name that 520 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: guy could really he could like one up James Bond. 521 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,479 Speaker 1: He's like Bond, general Bond. Yeah, everybody called him Bobby too, 522 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: So who's Bobby Bond? General? Body? Gand I like it 523 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: rolls off the tongue, oh man, So thanks so much. 524 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: Will definitely right. And if you've got a story where 525 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: we the public have been fed, you know, an official 526 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: story right in the news about something that occurred, but 527 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: you know it was something else because you had a 528 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: family member maybe involved or privy to something. Gosh, I 529 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: want to hear that, but only tell us if you're 530 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: okay with us sharing it, because we'll get we'll get 531 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: too excited. I'll get too excited. Let's it for now, 532 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: will We'll be right back with another message from not you, 533 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: will you the other the other person specifically, And we 534 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: have returned to follow up on the cliffhanger we left 535 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: you with at the break. You heard us say you 536 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: specifically you, and you may have thought, is it me 537 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: specifically me? Well, yes it is if your name is Carol. 538 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if we do it a product you there, 539 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: but this is an awesome letter. I'm just going to 540 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: share the information as is. This is something that I 541 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: had not heard about. Have you heard about this before? 542 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: I don't even know what we're gonna talk about yet, 543 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna learn what everybody else. We're gonna jump 544 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: right in and talk about. Okay, peep by the curtain. Folks. 545 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes when we because we live in this world and 546 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: we we go so deep into things, sometimes one of 547 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: us will learn about something and have that holy moment 548 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: and then right to the other guys on our group 549 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: thread or however we're talking to each other, and then 550 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: the other two will be like, oh, yeah, no, that's 551 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: that's definitely a thing. Like no spoilers, but Thunderbirds, I'm 552 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: really excited about that they did well. But this one 553 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: and this is another occurrence just to give more of 554 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: that curtain stuff. Uh, when some of the emails come through, 555 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: some of the messages come through, uh, just by in 556 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: having to go through a bunch of them, you'll get 557 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: or my mind will at least track maybe of the 558 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: contents of each email that comes through. But that I 559 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: got Buenos Aires and Amia. That's that's what I remember 560 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: from this Ben, and I was like, Okay, I need 561 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: to look something about that up later, but I hadn't 562 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: done it yet. So I'm excited. So here we go, 563 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: Here we go, Uh, Caro says dear Ben Doc Matt Noel, 564 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: I just stumbled upon stuff they don't want you to 565 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: know a few months ago, and it's become my new podcast. Love. 566 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: So thank you guys for putting together such an enjoyable show. 567 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 1: Hats off the code name Doc there by the way 568 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: for classing up the place. Yes, Matt cheers. You can't 569 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: see as folks, but we're cheersing. We're cheersing, Doc. I 570 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: for some reason have a Hello Kiddie class today, not sponsor. 571 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: So uh So here's what Carol says. I would love 572 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: to hear you alls take on the am I A 573 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: bombing in Buenos Aires, Argentine. Uh. It was a suicide 574 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: bombing on the Argentine Israelite Mutual Association building which killed 575 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: eighty five people and injured over three hundred. Both the 576 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: government of Arad and Hezbollah are accused of being involved, 577 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: and there is a lot of just general shadiness and 578 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: covering up associated with this event from both the Iranian 579 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: and Argentinian governments. For example, former Argentinian president and current 580 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: Vice President Christina Fernandez Dick Kirchner is accused of covering 581 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: up Iran's part in the bombing, and one of the 582 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: key witnesses, Alberto Nieman, who filed a three hundred page 583 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: document detailing de Kircher's role in the event, turned up 584 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: dead literally hours before he was supposed to testify against 585 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: her government officials. I know government officials ruled it as 586 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: a suicide. Yeah, sure, says Carol. Also, two of the 587 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: suspects and the planning of the bombing, Mulson raz and 588 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: Ahmed Vahidi, are now top ranking officials in the new 589 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: Iranian government under Ibrahim Rossi. Then there is alleged involvement 590 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: from Israel as well, rumors that their secret service MASSAD 591 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: hunted down and assassinated most of the perpetrators of the attack. Anyway, 592 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: I could go on and on, because there is a 593 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: lot more to this and reading about it has been 594 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: a wild ride. But I'd love to hear what you 595 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: all have to say about it. If this interest you 596 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: as much as it has me, hope everyone's having a 597 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: superb day. Cheers Carol oh Man. This is uh, this 598 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: is blowing my mind. This is revelatory to me. I 599 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: I was not aware of this, but from just this 600 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: letter Matt, and just the cursory stuff I was looking into. Uh, 601 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 1: this is taking all the boxes for stuff they don't 602 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: want you to know. I mean, Iran is known for 603 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: proxy warfare. I mean so is the US, obviously, but uh, 604 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: Argentina itself has such an interesting, deep and at times 605 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: conflicting history, right so initi Ali this reminded me of 606 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: other large cover ups, especially with the the idea of 607 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: witnesses being assassinated. Like think of the journalist who was 608 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: looking into corruption and Malta. I think of the various 609 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: people who died in the failed prosecution of the Detro 610 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,879 Speaker 1: affair in Belgium. This is nuts, this is wild. Let's 611 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: let's get into it. Let's talk just a little bit 612 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: about it, because this is going to come back as 613 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: a full episode. I think I think we have to 614 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, please, I'm sorry, I'm getting distracted by 615 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: looking at some of the imagery to come out of 616 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: this event, as well as checking out the Times of 617 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: Israel dot com article that you posted. Been sorry, I 618 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: got a little lost in there just because I don't know. 619 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about this. Yeah, yeah, it 620 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: makes you want to dive in pretty deeply. Well yes, 621 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: so think about it this way. And there's an excellent 622 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: New Yorker article called Death of a Prosecutor, which is 623 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: about Alberto Nieman's demise. By the way, but I ran 624 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: out of articles, so anyway, Yeah, the paywall by Dexter Filkins. 625 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: So here's a way for us to bring this hole. 626 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: If you live in the US, imagine that the one 627 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: of the most famous courtroom prosecutors ever straight up said 628 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: the president did nine eleven right, like the like the 629 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: president of the US was in charge of this attack, 630 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: um or was in charge of covering it up. That's 631 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: what happened with Dave Kirchner and Niceman. He said that 632 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: this politician had orchestrated, at the very least plan to 633 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: cripple the investigation in this attack. And this was the 634 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 1: bloodiest terrorist attack in the entire history of the country. 635 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 1: So here's what happened. It was a suicide van bomb attack, 636 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: and the am I A, the Association mutual Is Ralita 637 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: Argentina is a big deal. Argentina is home to a 638 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: large Jewish community two hundred and thirty thousand people, give 639 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: or take. That is the largest in Latin America. It 640 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: is in fact, the sixth largest in the world outside 641 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: of the nation of Israel. And when people started investigating this, 642 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: things almost immediately got very murky and very dirty. You know, 643 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: multiple countries and multiple individuals were accused of being involved. 644 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: Obviously this had to take some careful coordination and planning. 645 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: This is not this is not something that happened because 646 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: one guy woke up and caught a wild hair. Even 647 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: Pope Francis signed a petition and for justice in the 648 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: bombing case. The federal judge who was in charge of 649 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: the case in August of two thousand five was impeached 650 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: and removed due to suspicions that he was purposely mishandling 651 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: the investigation. Somebody, yeah, somebody doesn't want the public of 652 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: Argentina to know how this all happened or who was 653 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: behind this bloody, horrific attack. The prosecutor Alberto Easeman, before 654 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: he died he had claimed in two thousand six that 655 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: Iran was targeting Argentina because Buenos Aires had decided to 656 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: suspend a nuclear deal with Tehran they were gonna transfer 657 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 1: nuclear technology. But people still, I don't know, people are 658 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: in a hud on that story because was the contract 659 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: itself between Iran and Argentina was never actually terminated. They 660 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: were just negotiating from when the attack occurred. So Niceman 661 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: is arguing that the president wanted to cover up Iran's 662 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: role in the tragedy, role in the attack because they 663 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: needed the deal with Iran to work out. And by 664 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,240 Speaker 1: the way, when we say he died, he was murdered. 665 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: He didn't slip and fall. The guy was killed on purpose, premeditated. 666 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,359 Speaker 1: And if you look at the timeline, which we will 667 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: do in our upcoming episode, um, it's pretty hard not 668 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: to think that the murder was connected to his his 669 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: prosecutorial career. Yeah, look, this is a dumb question, Ben, 670 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you probably already covered it. But is the 671 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: official story that he was it was homicide, he was murdered, 672 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: or is it still that he killed himself or was 673 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 1: it just that he was found dead? With that, because 674 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: I think there was a gun found by him. He 675 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: was shot gun. There's a gun found with him or something. Yeah, 676 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: you're right, And to be more objective, I guess we 677 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: should save our conclusions for the full episode their Carol. 678 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: But he was found dead in his house on January 679 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: and there was a Bursa thunder twenty two handgun found 680 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: beside him. And this was again just hours before he's 681 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: going to the Congress of Argentina to talk about the 682 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: paper he had published, which is like maybe a little 683 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: south of three hundred pages two eight something. Anyway, according 684 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: to the autopsy, once they found the body, he had 685 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: actually died the previous day. That afternoon on January seventeenth, 686 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: is when he expired. They also found an entry bullet 687 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: wound to his right temple with no exit wound. His 688 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: body was in the bathroom. There were no signs of 689 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: forest entry or robbery. And here's one, I'm just gonna 690 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: throw some plot twist at your man. Okay, So no 691 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: side of forest entry. But a locksmith who was familiar 692 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: with the guy's apartment said he found a hidden entrance 693 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: to the apartment and then it was open when he 694 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: came on the scene, right right, a secret crawl space 695 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 1: was hanging. What of course he had a secret entrance. 696 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: I need to get one of those. I know we 697 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: need them. You know. At one of my old houses, 698 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: I actually made one. It was so bootleg. I just 699 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of books, so I 700 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: had like arranged shells to make the room look smaller 701 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: than it was. It the cottage house. The cottage house, Yeah, yeah, God, 702 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: that was a weird place. Man. We've lived in some 703 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: weird places, folks. I used to live in a castle 704 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: noticating built by a very short man by hand. It was, yes, 705 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: just so, uh, we are adding some levity here, but 706 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,359 Speaker 1: this this is very much a serious case, and it's 707 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: strange that there are so many questions that remain. One. Yes, 708 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 1: Kniesman did he did own firearms. He had two guns 709 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: that were registered. The gun that was found by him, 710 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: this little caliber, was not his. It was definitely the 711 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: murder weapon, but it belonged to his assistant, who apparently 712 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: lent it to him. That's the story so far. One 713 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: of the guns was transferred to someone else in two 714 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: thousand nine. The other has yet to be found to 715 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: this day. There's a test you can do to determine 716 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: there are a couple of testing due to determine whether 717 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: there's gunshot residue on someone's hands and kne sasman was clean, 718 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: so it seems that unless the testing was off, it 719 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: seems that he did not fire the gun himself. According 720 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: to the investigators, there was no sign of like a 721 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: physical attack or struggle, and one investigator even said there 722 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: was nothing suggesting the presence of other people at the 723 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: crime scene other than you know the fact that there 724 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: was a secret entrance to the guy's apartment and it 725 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: was wide open. DNA from a second person was found 726 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,359 Speaker 1: in a coffee cup on the kitchen sink, or they 727 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: announced that it was found. So there are still so 728 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: many questions about this, and this is classic stuff they 729 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. We're gonna dig into this, 730 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: We're going to shake it, see what comes loose. We're 731 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: gonna pull the strings, will bag up, the badgers, will 732 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: go down the rabbit hole, all the idioms here. Uh. 733 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,800 Speaker 1: And while we're doing that, and we'll we'll talk a 734 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: little bit more about this, just some of the things 735 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: that immediately stood out to us. But while we're working 736 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: on that up episode, we do want to give a 737 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,839 Speaker 1: shout out to a program on Netflix. Oh yes, uh, 738 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,399 Speaker 1: and I we have not watched this. I don't think 739 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: I haven't watched this yet. But you can on Netflix 740 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: find Niceman, the Prosecutor, the President and the Spy. You 741 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: can find this right now, I believe Yep, it's playing 742 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: in my ears. Well, I'm trying to talk to you, 743 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: and it is distracted me. But it looks like it's 744 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: a multi part series here. It's an entire art and 745 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,919 Speaker 1: the investigation continues. In March of a private investigation set 746 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: up by Kniesman's family concluded that his death was not suicide. 747 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: It was an act of homicide. Um. The report had 748 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: gone pretty in depth and sobering stuff that it contained 749 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: pictures of his body as well. Uh. The forensic investigators 750 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: that were originally appointed by Argentina's Supreme Court did say 751 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,359 Speaker 1: that it was a sua side, and it's become one 752 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: of those conclusions that the public just doesn't accept, similar 753 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: ways to the JFK story here in the US, which is, 754 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: as we found earlier, it is by far the most 755 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 1: widely accepted conspiracy theory in this country. So with all 756 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 1: this got to throw in some other stuff. He was 757 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: allegedly in touch with the CIA, the FBI, making some 758 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: unofficial calls with the US embassy. He was accused of 759 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: money laundering. This this goes deep. We're seeing here, really, 760 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: Kara is a it's not a lack of motive, and 761 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: it's not a lack of suspects. It's quite the opposite. 762 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: It's a wealth of possible motives. It's an abundance of 763 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: possible suspects. Now it's sort of a needle in the 764 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: haystack to figure out which one could have been responsible. 765 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,239 Speaker 1: And you know, when we when we finished looking into 766 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: this in this upcoming episode, uh, it may be possible 767 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: that we say he did commit suicide. I don't think 768 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: we're going to find that, but that's that's what this 769 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: show is about. That is what we do, and we 770 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,399 Speaker 1: are grateful to dive in with this. Give us a lead. 771 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,879 Speaker 1: We're dogs with a bone. What's another animal that has 772 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: a thing we can say? I don't want to say 773 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 1: dog with a bone anymore. Feel like that's been done 774 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: in a previous platypus. We're a platypus with a papaya. No, Okay, 775 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 1: they're not all gonna work, so so also send us 776 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,880 Speaker 1: your suggestions for idioms. That we could use in place 777 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:52,160 Speaker 1: of dog with a bone, a fancy chicken with fancy chicken. 778 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: Flange flangey, I've seen fancy chickens. I did not know 779 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,399 Speaker 1: thing the conversation we go this fancy chickens. They are 780 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: a fancy it's not an ironic name. They're super fancy 781 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: are I just love the idea of the first person 782 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: who ran into them was like, that is one classy 783 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,400 Speaker 1: bird right there. That's a fancy chicken. Oh my god. 784 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,439 Speaker 1: So give us your opinion on another fancy animals. What 785 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,319 Speaker 1: does a fancy chicken have with it? You know, the 786 00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: way that a dog has a bone. Oh my gosh. 787 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: We're getting ourselves a deep water here, but we'll get 788 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: to the surface, you know what I mean. We're not 789 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: going to get chap aquittics, but we but we are 790 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: doing this with your help. As we always say, we 791 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: are so grateful for your time, fellow conspiracy realists. We 792 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: always get the best leads from you and from your 793 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: fellow listeners. So thanks to everyone who has written in, 794 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 1: who has contacted us. On a personal note, thanks to 795 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: everybody reached out to me regarding some recent events. Um 796 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: I haven't responded to every body, but I will try 797 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 1: to do so, and maybe we'll talk about it a 798 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: little bit more towards the end of the year. But 799 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: in the meantime, the point is, the main point is 800 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,240 Speaker 1: this show can't happen without you, so we want your help. 801 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: Send us your ideas, send us new leads, tell us 802 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: about other cover ups. Tell us about other accidents that 803 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,360 Speaker 1: have occurred in the world of secret military experiments and projects. 804 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: Tell us about other accidents that have occurred and being 805 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: covered up in the world of the military. Tell us 806 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: about murders by very wealthy people, people who got away clean. 807 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are sadly many out there. And tell 808 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: us what you think of this bombing in We try 809 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 1: to be easy to find online. That's right. You can 810 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,360 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube where we 811 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,080 Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff. And if you don't mind, if you've 812 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: listened to this and you enjoyed it, why don't you 813 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: head over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to 814 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: this show and give us a review. It just helps 815 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,280 Speaker 1: us out, giving us a little more right, a little 816 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,759 Speaker 1: makes our step a little nicer, and uh increases the 817 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,760 Speaker 1: chances that we get to do this more often. Continue 818 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: to do the end of the year. If we get 819 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:24,799 Speaker 1: enough favorable reviews, our boss gets us a fancy chicken 820 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah Pickles, and we're really 821 00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:37,560 Speaker 1: excited to go to Chicken College for eight years to 822 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:43,560 Speaker 1: be called Mr. Fancy Pickles. Oh boy, oh what a week? Yes? 823 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,560 Speaker 1: What else can they do to episodes like Big Data? 824 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,840 Speaker 1: If you have somehow traveled forward in time and listen 825 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: to our episode on workplace surveillance, which will be coming out, 826 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 1: Hail fellow time travelers. Our job already knows out, and 827 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: you have listened to these things and decided to essue 828 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,840 Speaker 1: social media, we still want to contact us. Why not 829 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: give us a good old telephone call. We are one 830 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,880 Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. You'll 831 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: have a brief message at the beginning. You have three minutes. 832 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: Those minutes are your own go nuts, get weird with it. 833 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: We have some people who call us regularly and it's 834 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: almost like hearing a radio show, and it always always 835 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,080 Speaker 1: makes my day talking to you. Fog rolls in and 836 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:37,319 Speaker 1: so we uh, maybe you more broccoli, Sacramento, California. Yes, yes, absolutely, 837 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,480 Speaker 1: join their ranks. All we ask is that you let 838 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,400 Speaker 1: us know if we can use your name and or 839 00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,600 Speaker 1: voice on air. Give yourself a cool moniker who doesn't 840 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: love those. Tell us what's on your mind, and most importantly, 841 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,880 Speaker 1: don't censor yourself. If you have a story that needs 842 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: more than three minutes, write it out. Give us the 843 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,560 Speaker 1: ancillary links, give us the images, give us the video. 844 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,919 Speaker 1: We want it all, so drop us a line via 845 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,640 Speaker 1: electronic mail. We read every email we get. Where we 846 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:29,960 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they 847 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,840 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 848 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,120 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 849 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,920 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 850 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.