WEBVTT - Johnny Marr

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Johnny Marr is maybe the last in a line

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<v Speaker 1>of acclaimed British guitarists. He's played with tons of bands,

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<v Speaker 1>including most famously, The Smiths. Mar started playing guitar as

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<v Speaker 1>a young teenager growing up in Manchester. When he turned fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>he dropped out of school and moved to London to

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<v Speaker 1>join the band Sister Ray. A couple of years later,

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<v Speaker 1>he wound up helping to form The Smiths with Morrissey,

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Joyce and Mars's friend and bassist Andy Rourke. Then,

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<v Speaker 1>after The Smiths broke up in eighty seven, he went

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<v Speaker 1>on to collaborate with an array of different musicians and

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<v Speaker 1>playing bands like The Pretenders, The The and even later

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<v Speaker 1>Modest Mouse. In the early adds, Mars started releasing solo material,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's on the brink of releasing a new album

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<v Speaker 1>full of the best songs from his solo career. On

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<v Speaker 1>today's episode, I talked to Johnny Marr about his exciting

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<v Speaker 1>work in the studio with Farrell and on Zimmer. Mar

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<v Speaker 1>also recalls the terror he felt performing live in front

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<v Speaker 1>of massive stadiums full of fans with The Pretenders on

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube's Joshua Tree Tour He also talks about the time

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<v Speaker 1>he bought a Fender Stratocaster with Noel Gallagher from Oasis

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<v Speaker 1>that Stratt had nine pickups and eventually led him to

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<v Speaker 1>write one of the best songs of his solo career.

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<v Speaker 1>This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm justin Ritchman. Here's my conversation with Johnny Marr. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems like a really sort of whirlwind time in your life.

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<v Speaker 1>It must be like a lot of things that are

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<v Speaker 1>connected to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, do you know what I've been really looking at

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<v Speaker 2>in hand on her and maybe accept for I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>a period in my I guess mid thirties or something where,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, for a couple of years I was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of like doing other things. But I feel like I've

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<v Speaker 2>been busy for like forty years or something. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I know it sounds crazy, but I'm always I'm kind

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<v Speaker 2>of busy because I'm a workaholic. Well, actually it's a

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<v Speaker 2>bad way of putting it. I'm really passionate about what

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<v Speaker 2>I do. I've been doing the same things as intensely

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<v Speaker 2>as I do now.

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<v Speaker 3>I've been doing that since I was fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I left school at fifteen to join a pro band

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<v Speaker 2>with adults at fifteen and then really ever since nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty two, when I've made my first record with the Smiths,

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<v Speaker 2>I just feel like I've never really stopped, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so I've been obviously I feel very very grateful to

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<v Speaker 2>be to do that. But yeah, I mean, I suppose

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<v Speaker 2>the last big thing I did was the Bond movie

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<v Speaker 2>with an Zimmer. But and this year, really we've got

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<v Speaker 2>a best of coming out. I was on tour with

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<v Speaker 2>the Killers last year and right now I'm just rehearsing

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<v Speaker 2>to go out and.

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<v Speaker 3>Do some more stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, you know, I've not done a solo or best

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<v Speaker 2>of yet before that's about.

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<v Speaker 3>To come out now, And that was that was to

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<v Speaker 3>do with the record coming in.

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<v Speaker 2>The management just kind of went, hey, look, we know

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<v Speaker 2>that you're going to be expect them to go in

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<v Speaker 2>and make another LP, make another album. Well you've only

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<v Speaker 2>just done a double album last year, so just hold

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<v Speaker 2>your horses and let's just it's been ten years since

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<v Speaker 2>you've had this solo band, and let's just put it

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<v Speaker 2>all on the best of and if you if you

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<v Speaker 2>think it's a good listen, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you like it? Have you have you sequenced it

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<v Speaker 1>and listened.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I know this might sound a little odd to say,

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<v Speaker 2>but being given the assignment to put a best of

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<v Speaker 2>out when it wasn't driven by me, when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>from someone else, and going oh, okay, right, let me

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<v Speaker 2>look at that, and then getting it all mastered and

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<v Speaker 2>listening to it, you know, because I had to listen

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<v Speaker 2>to the test pressings. Right, So the test presents coming,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, I've been doing this since I was

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<v Speaker 2>a kid, Right, test presents come.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm always excited about.

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<v Speaker 2>That, like, oh, great white labels, and you put it

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<v Speaker 2>on the turntable and you have to sit and you

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<v Speaker 2>have to listen for any little pops or anything.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I said to the band guys last night I got

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<v Speaker 2>the test presence of them. You know, it's a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>good album, man, it's a good listen, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>I don't take anything for granted, you know, justin so.

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<v Speaker 3>So please with it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great. I'd be excited to check that out because

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<v Speaker 1>I've sort of been over the last year just curating,

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<v Speaker 1>oddly enough, just different playlists of things that you're involved in,

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<v Speaker 1>like I don't know, just randomly resequencing Smith's records just

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<v Speaker 1>for fun or like, yeah, I made a playlist of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that was just stuff that you've played on but

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<v Speaker 1>weren't like bands that you were actually a part of.

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<v Speaker 3>Ye.

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<v Speaker 1>And then your last record, the Fever Dreams one through four,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, just came out. It was like a wealth

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<v Speaker 1>of great material. You know.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad that that I've done all of that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean obviously, but I did a couple of tracks

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<v Speaker 2>with Beck, and then I did maybe four or five

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<v Speaker 2>tracks with John Fishanty, and then I popped up on

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<v Speaker 2>records with all these different really cool musicians. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but perchance, Yeah, And that was so well. As I

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<v Speaker 2>was doing it, I was thinking, wow, man, this is

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<v Speaker 2>oh I love this music, and what a cool thing,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So so like when John vi Shanity, he

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<v Speaker 2>invited me over to when he was working on the

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<v Speaker 2>Imperium and it was like, I've got these tracks, take

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<v Speaker 2>your pick, and he played me a track and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I think I can do something on

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<v Speaker 2>that band and played me another track. Oh, I've got

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<v Speaker 2>an idea for that bank And then you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of days later you kind of go, well, that

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<v Speaker 2>was a nice experience. So I think what I'm saying

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<v Speaker 2>is none of it's planned. It's all this kind of

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say it a journey. I've been a

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<v Speaker 2>musician and being very, very fortunate that people who were

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<v Speaker 2>doing cool things have invited me to do cool things

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<v Speaker 2>with them.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's never been planned.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it something about you, like you yourself as a person,

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<v Speaker 1>or about your plane, or a bit of both that

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<v Speaker 1>allows you to fit in with so many different kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of people.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess so, But I think musicians are very

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<v Speaker 2>welcoming and inclusive types of people. It might be a

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<v Speaker 2>bit cheesy, but I have a certain kind of pride

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<v Speaker 2>in that, not my personal coming about myself, but my

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<v Speaker 2>you know, brothers and sisters of music. You know they

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<v Speaker 2>because let's put it this way, I've been around.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't whether you've ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Been in a room with several actors or in a

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<v Speaker 2>taxi with several comedians, but often there's a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a competitive vibe. I know it's a generalization, right. I

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<v Speaker 2>know a bunch of great actors, and I know a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of some great comedians, right, But I've noticed that

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<v Speaker 2>musicians are very You get a couple of musicians together,

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<v Speaker 2>and you go, hey, did you have you ever heard

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<v Speaker 2>this thing that came out in nineteen eighty six?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh man, you're gonna love.

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<v Speaker 2>It, or I really really like this thing, or oh man,

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<v Speaker 2>did you know that he played the drums on this

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<v Speaker 2>record in nineteen sixty five, And there's always this sharing

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<v Speaker 2>kind of think, Well, I'm really typical like that as

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<v Speaker 2>a as a musician, I suppose I'm very enthusiastic.

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<v Speaker 3>If I hear something that I'm into.

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<v Speaker 2>And the people that I've mentioned may Pet Shop Boys

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<v Speaker 2>as well. You know, we had a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a tradition for a while there where they would always

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<v Speaker 2>get me to do the B sides of their singles.

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<v Speaker 2>They were like, well, okay, we've got this this electro

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<v Speaker 2>pop and the B side. Usually it'd be like this,

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<v Speaker 2>the B side is slightly experimental, and it'd be interesting

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<v Speaker 2>to put a guitar on it, which in Pet Shop

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<v Speaker 2>Boys land is being experimental, which and then and they go, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>Johnny'll do it. And I'm the guy for that because

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<v Speaker 2>I love them, and so I've got to be on

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<v Speaker 2>more Pet Shop Boys records than any other musician. I

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<v Speaker 2>pop up and do all the ones where they go listen,

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<v Speaker 2>We've got this guitar song. You know, I'm very proud

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<v Speaker 2>of that. So to answer your question, it's a partly

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<v Speaker 2>to do with my personality being very, very typical kind

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<v Speaker 2>of musician. That means I will stay in the studio

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<v Speaker 2>either listening to stories or telling stories till really till

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<v Speaker 2>three am or whatever it used to be seven am.

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<v Speaker 3>But these days are a little bit more moderate.

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<v Speaker 2>And the other thing is, I guess the second thing

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, I like to play guitar that I think

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<v Speaker 2>is appropriate to whatever the song is. So if all

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<v Speaker 2>that's required is, like recently on No Gallagher stuff, for instance,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going in there going right okay by bar eight,

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<v Speaker 2>you really need to know that I'm on it.

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<v Speaker 3>I just kind of go, what's the song? And I

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<v Speaker 3>sort of.

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<v Speaker 2>Think in that regard, I'm not really beyond thinking like

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<v Speaker 2>a session musician.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have to really be this big deal on it,

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<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the thing I really enjoy about your playing in

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<v Speaker 1>your career is there is this bit of you that

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<v Speaker 1>almost approaches music the way like a jazz musician did

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<v Speaker 1>in the fifties or sixties, like Herbie Hancock can put out,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, peer in Islands, and then also just go

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<v Speaker 1>play on like a great Lee Morgan record, and he

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<v Speaker 1>puts as much of his heart and soul into that

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<v Speaker 1>side man work quote unquote, you can tell as he

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<v Speaker 1>seem to have done his own records. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's an absolute honor because I think

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of feels about right. I think when you

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<v Speaker 2>were talking then, I was thinking paradoxically, people who say

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<v Speaker 2>they don't like jazz or people who don't like jazz,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's about just people blowing. But to me,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the best things about jazz musicians is to

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<v Speaker 2>be a good jazz musician, you have to listen.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you have to listen to what everybody else is doing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a conversation and you know you can do that

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<v Speaker 2>in indie rock again, come back to say, the most

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<v Speaker 2>recent thing that I've done with somebody else with no

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<v Speaker 2>Gallagher stuff. I want to make the record really good,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So there's bits where you lay out, and

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<v Speaker 2>then there's bits when you play just textual stuff, and

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<v Speaker 2>then there's bits where you come in with the riff.

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<v Speaker 2>And ultimately it's his record and his vision, and he

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<v Speaker 2>trusts me to do because he knows that I'm all

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<v Speaker 2>about the big picture and not about me just stepping

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<v Speaker 2>all over it other times.

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<v Speaker 3>Though, you know, I did a record with.

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<v Speaker 2>The Australian project Avalanches a few years ago with me

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<v Speaker 2>and MGMs were on there. Yeah, me and MGMT did

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<v Speaker 2>a song with them, and that was that was really

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<v Speaker 2>cool because they had this idea for this riff and

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<v Speaker 2>I said, okay, well what about if I just develop it?

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<v Speaker 2>And then what I did was sort of featured and

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of floated through the track.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's whatever's appropriate. Really.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when I was learning, maybe twelve thirteen something,

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<v Speaker 2>so I sort of have been in the mid seventies just.

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<v Speaker 3>For punk broke out.

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<v Speaker 2>Back then, there wasn't you know, you wouldn't be able

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<v Speaker 2>to go in Barnes and Noble or Waterstones in England

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<v Speaker 2>and see like shelves and shelves of books about anybody.

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<v Speaker 3>You know. I'm sure Justin Bieber has got a whole

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<v Speaker 3>wall for but whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but back then that wasn't a thing, right, So

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<v Speaker 2>I would read the music press and I would go

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<v Speaker 2>into the library and if a book did appear about

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<v Speaker 2>whoever it was, I didn't if it caught my interest.

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<v Speaker 2>I would read it or just stand in the bookstore

0:11:14.596 --> 0:11:16.316
<v Speaker 2>and read it. There's only a few things around. I

0:11:16.316 --> 0:11:18.396
<v Speaker 2>remember there's one about Pete Sounds, and there was a

0:11:18.396 --> 0:11:19.916
<v Speaker 2>Miles Davis one, and.

0:11:19.956 --> 0:11:22.116
<v Speaker 3>There was led Zeppelin monster stuff.

0:11:22.156 --> 0:11:24.876
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, when you start off, if you're really obsessive,

0:11:24.916 --> 0:11:28.636
<v Speaker 2>as I was, some bits of information really stick to you.

0:11:29.996 --> 0:11:33.236
<v Speaker 2>And there was it was either Keith Richards or John Lennon,

0:11:33.316 --> 0:11:37.516
<v Speaker 2>I think, was saying that the most important part of

0:11:37.556 --> 0:11:40.556
<v Speaker 2>being a guitar player is being able to play rhythm.

0:11:40.796 --> 0:11:43.116
<v Speaker 2>And to a twelve year old boy whose poles are

0:11:43.116 --> 0:11:46.476
<v Speaker 2>all going, you know, trying to play all this shreddy

0:11:46.476 --> 0:11:49.716
<v Speaker 2>stuff or whatever, when I read that information, I was

0:11:49.756 --> 0:11:52.596
<v Speaker 2>kind of like, huh, it sounded really noble to me.

0:11:53.236 --> 0:11:56.036
<v Speaker 2>And this thing of underpinning the band and having the

0:11:56.076 --> 0:11:59.076
<v Speaker 2>groove down and all of that. And then obviously as

0:11:59.116 --> 0:12:00.956
<v Speaker 2>time went on and I got into people like Keith

0:12:01.036 --> 0:12:04.076
<v Speaker 2>Richards or or obviously Nol Rodgers and people like that,

0:12:04.756 --> 0:12:07.476
<v Speaker 2>and you know, Jimmy Nolan who plays with James Brown

0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:12.036
<v Speaker 2>and just any number of really great rhythm players. That's

0:12:12.076 --> 0:12:13.676
<v Speaker 2>just one of the chapters that you need to have

0:12:14.236 --> 0:12:16.116
<v Speaker 2>got through, you know, what I mean, it's just part

0:12:16.156 --> 0:12:17.836
<v Speaker 2>of being a guitar player.

0:12:17.876 --> 0:12:20.276
<v Speaker 3>I think. I just think it's really cool to just

0:12:20.396 --> 0:12:22.196
<v Speaker 3>like be appropriate to the song.

0:12:22.956 --> 0:12:25.436
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is your phone just open? You just say, people

0:12:25.476 --> 0:12:27.956
<v Speaker 1>just know you're ready to play all these.

0:12:28.356 --> 0:12:30.116
<v Speaker 2>Pretty Yeah, I know pretty much because it's been that

0:12:30.196 --> 0:12:33.356
<v Speaker 2>way for years. I mean a lot, I know a

0:12:33.396 --> 0:12:36.796
<v Speaker 2>lot of people. I mean, I'm always I'm never not

0:12:36.876 --> 0:12:40.636
<v Speaker 2>available for Brian Ferry because I've been working with Brian

0:12:40.716 --> 0:12:47.036
<v Speaker 2>now since nineteen eighties eighty seven, and Brian's always writing,

0:12:47.076 --> 0:12:49.556
<v Speaker 2>and he's always he's always making tracks. He's always got

0:12:49.636 --> 0:12:51.836
<v Speaker 2>tracks upon the go and he comes back to them

0:12:51.836 --> 0:12:54.116
<v Speaker 2>and all this sort of stuff. So that's been an

0:12:54.156 --> 0:12:57.796
<v Speaker 2>ongoing thing for years. But then since I guess twenty ten,

0:12:58.356 --> 0:13:03.556
<v Speaker 2>Hands Zimmer. If Hands wants something doing, even if it's

0:13:03.996 --> 0:13:06.916
<v Speaker 2>something on the on the choiet, just you know, you

0:13:06.996 --> 0:13:08.916
<v Speaker 2>need a little bit of this or I'll do that.

0:13:09.156 --> 0:13:13.876
<v Speaker 1>What an incredible relationship, I mean, musical relationship you guys

0:13:13.876 --> 0:13:14.436
<v Speaker 1>have built.

0:13:15.116 --> 0:13:17.436
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he really taught me a lot. I think with Hands,

0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:22.036
<v Speaker 2>he's he's got the soul of a rock musician. And

0:13:22.116 --> 0:13:25.036
<v Speaker 2>if you go to his shows, which are now like

0:13:25.196 --> 0:13:28.916
<v Speaker 2>three hours long, and it's some of the pieces that

0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:31.036
<v Speaker 2>he's doing in this current show, which actually my son

0:13:31.116 --> 0:13:32.316
<v Speaker 2>plays plays in that.

0:13:32.396 --> 0:13:35.116
<v Speaker 3>I've been I've been upgraded to the mar.

0:13:35.556 --> 0:13:40.036
<v Speaker 2>Version two two point zero, so my son plays in that.

0:13:40.156 --> 0:13:43.276
<v Speaker 2>But there are some moments in that show that it

0:13:43.396 --> 0:13:47.956
<v Speaker 2>makes Cashmere sound like a boy band. It's wow, amazingly

0:13:48.516 --> 0:13:50.516
<v Speaker 2>orchestrated rock music.

0:13:51.276 --> 0:13:52.756
<v Speaker 3>At the heart of it is rock music.

0:13:53.836 --> 0:13:57.236
<v Speaker 2>And you know, with me and hands, you know, once

0:13:57.276 --> 0:14:01.116
<v Speaker 2>we get talking about music and talking about melotrons and

0:14:01.636 --> 0:14:06.596
<v Speaker 2>fair lights or late sixties strats or what you know,

0:14:06.996 --> 0:14:10.476
<v Speaker 2>or Tangerine dream or whatever next thing, we look at

0:14:10.476 --> 0:14:13.356
<v Speaker 2>our watch and it's you know, it's Quartpus three in

0:14:13.396 --> 0:14:16.636
<v Speaker 2>the am, you know, and we just sit around his

0:14:16.676 --> 0:14:20.316
<v Speaker 2>studios listening to music, playing music or talking about music.

0:14:20.676 --> 0:14:24.676
<v Speaker 2>It's so that's what my pals are like. My friends

0:14:24.676 --> 0:14:27.156
<v Speaker 2>are the same as me, you know, we're Yeah, it's

0:14:27.316 --> 0:14:28.876
<v Speaker 2>it's what I dreamed of when I was a kid,

0:14:28.916 --> 0:14:29.116
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:14:29.356 --> 0:14:32.556
<v Speaker 1>For Shanty's same kind of character being around John Frushanti,

0:14:32.636 --> 0:14:37.196
<v Speaker 1>the amount of guitar players he can reference in a

0:14:37.196 --> 0:14:40.356
<v Speaker 1>given moment, and he feels like he's able to synthesize

0:14:40.956 --> 0:14:44.156
<v Speaker 1>all of these disparate you know, he's almost like a

0:14:44.156 --> 0:14:46.516
<v Speaker 1>computer to me, Like talk about AI, It's like, how

0:14:46.676 --> 0:14:50.076
<v Speaker 1>is he pulling from all that at once? That's it's insane.

0:14:50.196 --> 0:14:51.956
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's well, there's a couple of things that come

0:14:51.996 --> 0:14:54.436
<v Speaker 2>to mind when you say that. I think you're absolutely

0:14:54.516 --> 0:14:56.156
<v Speaker 2>right about John and there's a few other people I

0:14:56.196 --> 0:14:58.956
<v Speaker 2>know like that. I think people who are great, whoever

0:14:58.996 --> 0:15:03.916
<v Speaker 2>they are. But in my field it's musicians. They are experts,

0:15:04.156 --> 0:15:08.636
<v Speaker 2>absolute experts. And that might sound obvious, but there's this

0:15:08.756 --> 0:15:13.956
<v Speaker 2>famous story about when Bob Marley first went into record

0:15:14.076 --> 0:15:15.756
<v Speaker 2>and it was like some little four track and he

0:15:15.796 --> 0:15:17.956
<v Speaker 2>was like sixteen or seventeen or something. I think it

0:15:17.996 --> 0:15:21.356
<v Speaker 2>was with Cocksol or something. And if you hear enough

0:15:21.356 --> 0:15:23.316
<v Speaker 2>about those stories, you hear you know what. He was

0:15:23.396 --> 0:15:26.036
<v Speaker 2>kind of a pain in the ass because he would

0:15:26.036 --> 0:15:28.076
<v Speaker 2>be like, the backing vocals are too loud, back in

0:15:28.116 --> 0:15:31.716
<v Speaker 2>volks are too loud. Because he'd studied the Coasters, and

0:15:31.796 --> 0:15:36.076
<v Speaker 2>he'd studied the Drifters, and he'd studied Curtis Mayfel and

0:15:36.156 --> 0:15:39.356
<v Speaker 2>the Impressions, so he knew how the backing vocals on those.

0:15:39.516 --> 0:15:42.396
<v Speaker 2>This is when he was a kid, right, But you

0:15:42.436 --> 0:15:46.556
<v Speaker 2>could go right across in sports, I'm sure in business too,

0:15:46.996 --> 0:15:50.676
<v Speaker 2>but people who are great are real experts. I guess

0:15:50.836 --> 0:15:53.356
<v Speaker 2>it's not a surprise because it's your passion.

0:15:54.036 --> 0:15:57.716
<v Speaker 1>So become obcessive, You've become obsessive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because

0:15:57.716 --> 0:15:58.276
<v Speaker 1>you love.

0:15:58.076 --> 0:15:59.596
<v Speaker 3>It, that's right, you know.

0:15:59.876 --> 0:16:01.876
<v Speaker 2>And then the second thing you're talking about there, like

0:16:01.916 --> 0:16:05.316
<v Speaker 2>with Johnny's and other people like that, are there's a

0:16:05.356 --> 0:16:07.276
<v Speaker 2>lot of musicians like this. They take all of these

0:16:07.276 --> 0:16:11.996
<v Speaker 2>different elements only to them make sense and then it

0:16:12.036 --> 0:16:13.836
<v Speaker 2>comes out. But when you hear it, he goes, oh, yeah,

0:16:13.836 --> 0:16:15.756
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like that. So for example, in my case,

0:16:15.876 --> 0:16:19.236
<v Speaker 2>like for forty years, I didn't really do a lot

0:16:19.236 --> 0:16:21.316
<v Speaker 2>of interviews in the early Smith's days, but when I

0:16:21.356 --> 0:16:24.556
<v Speaker 2>was asked about guitar playing, when I had to really

0:16:24.676 --> 0:16:28.716
<v Speaker 2>nail it down, I was like, well, now Rogers, Bert

0:16:28.796 --> 0:16:34.316
<v Speaker 2>Jansch and James Williamson from the studios, Now that's yeah,

0:16:34.316 --> 0:16:36.876
<v Speaker 2>but that's a pretty boat after anyone who's followed me

0:16:36.916 --> 0:16:39.036
<v Speaker 2>for years and years knows that they're my like they're

0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:39.516
<v Speaker 2>my tree.

0:16:39.636 --> 0:16:41.516
<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously I love a lot, you know, I

0:16:41.556 --> 0:16:44.476
<v Speaker 3>love what Roy Gallagher was doing. I love what you know.

0:16:44.516 --> 0:16:46.836
<v Speaker 2>John my Geeock from the band Cheese and Will Sergeant

0:16:46.836 --> 0:16:48.556
<v Speaker 2>from the Bunny Men. I mean there's hundreds. I mean

0:16:48.596 --> 0:16:50.756
<v Speaker 2>I could stay here just giving a list and lists

0:16:50.756 --> 0:16:54.636
<v Speaker 2>of amazing guitar players. Obviously, but at first people would

0:16:54.756 --> 0:16:58.196
<v Speaker 2>were like, huh, come again, what you like now Rogers

0:16:58.196 --> 0:17:01.916
<v Speaker 2>I influenced the Smith's. But over time, now people know

0:17:02.036 --> 0:17:04.316
<v Speaker 2>that some of these songs like that, I go, well,

0:17:04.396 --> 0:17:06.316
<v Speaker 2>listen to the Boy, listen to the second verse in

0:17:06.356 --> 0:17:08.716
<v Speaker 2>The Boy with the Thorn in his Side, and or

0:17:08.876 --> 0:17:11.236
<v Speaker 2>there's a famous story about when I wrote Handy Glove.

0:17:11.276 --> 0:17:13.556
<v Speaker 2>It just started out as a sheet riff, so point

0:17:13.596 --> 0:17:18.036
<v Speaker 2>being that that made total sense to me. But you

0:17:18.076 --> 0:17:21.956
<v Speaker 2>put it all through a funnel, comes in through your

0:17:21.996 --> 0:17:25.436
<v Speaker 2>own mind, and then it comes out and people go, oh, yeah,

0:17:25.556 --> 0:17:28.876
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like Johnny mar right. But to me, if

0:17:28.916 --> 0:17:30.476
<v Speaker 2>I told you what I was thinking of when I

0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:31.836
<v Speaker 2>was trying to come up with some of these, if

0:17:31.876 --> 0:17:32.236
<v Speaker 2>you go.

0:17:32.196 --> 0:17:36.116
<v Speaker 1>What, I'm so glad that you mentioned James Williamson too, though,

0:17:36.396 --> 0:17:38.916
<v Speaker 1>because as much as I love the Ashley on Brown

0:17:38.916 --> 0:17:42.396
<v Speaker 1>Ashton and the Ashton Brothers, James Williamson man like some

0:17:42.476 --> 0:17:44.716
<v Speaker 1>of those. I feel like some of that music with

0:17:44.956 --> 0:17:49.276
<v Speaker 1>James gets discounted. That Kill City record. Yeah, Iggy is

0:17:49.396 --> 0:17:51.356
<v Speaker 1>just one. I mean, I don't know, man, I go

0:17:51.396 --> 0:17:54.116
<v Speaker 1>to that record all the time because it just blows

0:17:54.116 --> 0:17:54.516
<v Speaker 1>me away.

0:17:54.876 --> 0:17:58.156
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's amazing because when I first met Noel Gallagher,

0:17:58.596 --> 0:18:00.396
<v Speaker 2>he was a fairly he was young. No, it would

0:18:00.436 --> 0:18:02.956
<v Speaker 2>have been about maybe twenty or something nineteen. I was

0:18:02.956 --> 0:18:06.716
<v Speaker 2>pretty young myself, maybe twenty six, twenty seven, but the

0:18:06.796 --> 0:18:08.396
<v Speaker 2>first time he came to my house, that was the

0:18:08.436 --> 0:18:10.716
<v Speaker 2>record I gave it. Wasn't aware of it, But I

0:18:10.716 --> 0:18:13.516
<v Speaker 2>don't know whether this is so what I got from

0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:16.356
<v Speaker 2>James Willimson. I had thought I was playing when I

0:18:16.356 --> 0:18:26.596
<v Speaker 2>was about fifteen, and it was something like and a

0:18:26.636 --> 0:18:28.676
<v Speaker 2>friend of mine, Billy Duffiy, went on it being the call.

0:18:28.756 --> 0:18:30.636
<v Speaker 2>He said to me, that sounds like gimme Danger, and

0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:33.596
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what's that. I've never heard a gimme danger?

0:18:33.756 --> 0:18:37.196
<v Speaker 2>And anyway, so a long story, but I tracked down

0:18:37.276 --> 0:18:50.836
<v Speaker 2>raw Power. So when I heard that, I went, well,

0:18:50.876 --> 0:18:54.236
<v Speaker 2>that sounds like the way I'm trying to play, so

0:18:54.756 --> 0:18:56.636
<v Speaker 2>you know, the truth be told. I was a bit

0:18:56.636 --> 0:18:58.996
<v Speaker 2>pissed that someone had already beat me to this, this new.

0:18:58.916 --> 0:19:02.676
<v Speaker 3>Song I was writing. So James is a massive influence

0:19:02.716 --> 0:19:02.956
<v Speaker 3>on me.

0:19:03.156 --> 0:19:04.916
<v Speaker 2>Massive. When I heard that, I just kind of went,

0:19:05.596 --> 0:19:08.516
<v Speaker 2>you're on the right path. You know you're doing the

0:19:08.556 --> 0:19:11.516
<v Speaker 2>right thing. And then with say, just for an illustration,

0:19:11.716 --> 0:19:14.756
<v Speaker 2>seeing as I don't always do this, but just guitar,

0:19:14.876 --> 0:19:17.396
<v Speaker 2>I don't make can hear his probably? But the Smith's

0:19:17.396 --> 0:19:30.996
<v Speaker 2>song Handing Glove, well that started off when I first

0:19:30.996 --> 0:19:31.956
<v Speaker 2>started playing.

0:19:31.676 --> 0:19:37.396
<v Speaker 3>It, it went, which is me trying to be cheek.

0:19:50.036 --> 0:19:52.476
<v Speaker 2>It was my girlfriend said make it sound more like Iggy,

0:19:52.596 --> 0:19:54.796
<v Speaker 2>so I did and I ended up sounding like that.

0:19:54.876 --> 0:19:57.316
<v Speaker 3>But that and that was the first Smith single.

0:19:57.396 --> 0:20:00.236
<v Speaker 2>But when we came out no One, I believe when

0:20:00.236 --> 0:20:03.476
<v Speaker 2>I said I was now Rogers was a huge influence

0:20:03.516 --> 0:20:06.476
<v Speaker 2>on me, you know. So you know that's what musicians

0:20:06.516 --> 0:20:08.716
<v Speaker 2>are like though, aren't they? And I think maybe creative

0:20:08.716 --> 0:20:12.236
<v Speaker 2>people as well. Sometimes you're trying to copy your heroes

0:20:12.276 --> 0:20:16.076
<v Speaker 2>and your limitations kind of get I mean, I'm not

0:20:16.076 --> 0:20:18.276
<v Speaker 2>the first person I said this, but your limitations just

0:20:18.356 --> 0:20:20.876
<v Speaker 2>kind of put a stamp on what you can and

0:20:20.956 --> 0:20:21.396
<v Speaker 2>can't do.

0:20:22.676 --> 0:20:24.316
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a break and then come back

0:20:24.316 --> 0:20:31.716
<v Speaker 1>with more of my interview with Johnny Marr. We're back

0:20:31.716 --> 0:20:35.076
<v Speaker 1>with more from Johnny Marr. How much in terms of

0:20:35.716 --> 0:20:39.876
<v Speaker 1>just raw skill do you feel like you've developed from

0:20:40.396 --> 0:20:42.916
<v Speaker 1>let's say nineteen eighty to now.

0:20:44.076 --> 0:20:45.956
<v Speaker 3>Well, I took it really seriously. I started.

0:20:46.356 --> 0:20:50.516
<v Speaker 2>My parents to this day still really their music freaks.

0:20:50.876 --> 0:20:52.676
<v Speaker 2>So I grew up in a house of Irish parents

0:20:52.716 --> 0:20:55.996
<v Speaker 2>who treated music like it was a religion.

0:20:56.556 --> 0:21:00.156
<v Speaker 3>So if I like someone, they really really really like them.

0:21:00.356 --> 0:21:03.916
<v Speaker 2>And so I want to see my parents, who are

0:21:03.956 --> 0:21:06.596
<v Speaker 2>in their eighties now, and my dad was showing me

0:21:06.636 --> 0:21:09.276
<v Speaker 2>this country music podcast that he just got into and

0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:12.476
<v Speaker 2>they're still didn't it to this day. My mother she's

0:21:12.516 --> 0:21:16.956
<v Speaker 2>super into like watching new country singers and singer songwriters

0:21:16.956 --> 0:21:18.396
<v Speaker 2>on YouTube.

0:21:19.276 --> 0:21:20.316
<v Speaker 3>So they were really young.

0:21:20.196 --> 0:21:22.036
<v Speaker 2>When I was a kid, So I was brought up

0:21:22.036 --> 0:21:27.916
<v Speaker 2>around all these young Irish adults, your teenagers, really playing music.

0:21:28.036 --> 0:21:30.716
<v Speaker 2>So to answer your question, what happened was I just

0:21:30.756 --> 0:21:32.996
<v Speaker 2>got really obsessed with a guitar. I got my first

0:21:33.036 --> 0:21:34.796
<v Speaker 2>proper one that I could play chords on when I

0:21:34.796 --> 0:21:37.836
<v Speaker 2>was about eight or nine, and then I started just

0:21:37.836 --> 0:21:39.676
<v Speaker 2>trying to play the records on the radio like a

0:21:39.676 --> 0:21:42.516
<v Speaker 2>lot of people. So I started playing, you know, like

0:21:42.756 --> 0:21:45.236
<v Speaker 2>getting my own little tunes together and stuff when I

0:21:45.276 --> 0:21:47.956
<v Speaker 2>was about nine or ten, and then enrolling my friends

0:21:47.956 --> 0:21:51.396
<v Speaker 2>to be these little bands, and I, you know, i'd write.

0:21:51.156 --> 0:21:53.036
<v Speaker 3>I'd do just like t Rex ripoffs.

0:21:53.076 --> 0:21:56.316
<v Speaker 2>Really, all my songs were just like t Rex copies.

0:21:56.396 --> 0:21:59.996
<v Speaker 2>And then I just had a sort of natural knack

0:22:00.076 --> 0:22:02.036
<v Speaker 2>to be out of place to kind of riffs.

0:22:02.476 --> 0:22:03.996
<v Speaker 3>But if i'd have.

0:22:04.396 --> 0:22:07.516
<v Speaker 2>Been the sort of person who was, you know, just

0:22:07.636 --> 0:22:10.516
<v Speaker 2>in a copy of other people and not being a songwriter,

0:22:11.476 --> 0:22:14.596
<v Speaker 2>you know, I probably would have been shredding away forever.

0:22:14.636 --> 0:22:16.796
<v Speaker 2>But you know, it's not really my thing that really

0:22:16.836 --> 0:22:19.396
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to sort of I went to have my

0:22:19.396 --> 0:22:21.916
<v Speaker 2>own band with my own sound, you know, so.

0:22:22.436 --> 0:22:23.916
<v Speaker 3>The skill I have a master. I don't know what

0:22:24.116 --> 0:22:25.316
<v Speaker 3>is answering your question.

0:22:25.156 --> 0:22:28.596
<v Speaker 2>But coming back to hanns Zimmer, what I did on

0:22:28.716 --> 0:22:32.236
<v Speaker 2>Inception was pretty simple. But when it came to actually

0:22:32.316 --> 0:22:36.276
<v Speaker 2>playing it on stage with an orchestra, like sixty pieces

0:22:36.316 --> 0:22:38.356
<v Speaker 2>on stage with a choir and all of that stuff,

0:22:38.596 --> 0:22:40.276
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have ever been able to do that when

0:22:40.316 --> 0:22:41.996
<v Speaker 2>I was in my twenties. I wouldn't have been able

0:22:41.996 --> 0:22:44.036
<v Speaker 2>to do it in my thirties either, really, and I

0:22:44.116 --> 0:22:46.196
<v Speaker 2>might not have even come up with that really simple part.

0:22:46.196 --> 0:22:48.276
<v Speaker 3>I think when you get older, you.

0:22:48.276 --> 0:22:52.916
<v Speaker 2>Kind of know what you're about, and it's about what

0:22:52.956 --> 0:22:55.036
<v Speaker 2>I came up with was kind of right for the movie,

0:22:55.396 --> 0:22:57.836
<v Speaker 2>and I might not have ever been able to do

0:22:57.916 --> 0:22:58.676
<v Speaker 2>that when I was young.

0:22:58.876 --> 0:23:00.356
<v Speaker 3>But I practice every day.

0:23:00.836 --> 0:23:05.036
<v Speaker 2>I go through periods where I just practice practice, and

0:23:05.076 --> 0:23:07.756
<v Speaker 2>then I play absent mindedly when i'm you know, around

0:23:07.796 --> 0:23:08.356
<v Speaker 2>the house.

0:23:08.116 --> 0:23:08.916
<v Speaker 3>And watching TV.

0:23:09.676 --> 0:23:13.156
<v Speaker 2>But I'm going through another phase now where I'll come

0:23:13.196 --> 0:23:15.956
<v Speaker 2>in this little studio here and put the headphones on

0:23:16.116 --> 0:23:19.156
<v Speaker 2>and and just play and play and try and get

0:23:19.316 --> 0:23:20.796
<v Speaker 2>you know, try and get my chops. So maybe that's

0:23:20.836 --> 0:23:23.596
<v Speaker 2>because I'm going out live or I don't know why,

0:23:23.636 --> 0:23:27.476
<v Speaker 2>but that connects me to the kidd I was when

0:23:27.476 --> 0:23:28.556
<v Speaker 2>I was eleven or twelve.

0:23:29.636 --> 0:23:31.276
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, it's got nothing to do with career.

0:23:32.276 --> 0:23:34.436
<v Speaker 2>There's got nothing to do with the Smith's, got nothing

0:23:34.476 --> 0:23:36.516
<v Speaker 2>to do with like you know, Johnny Mara, or nothing

0:23:36.556 --> 0:23:39.196
<v Speaker 2>to do with business or anything.

0:23:39.316 --> 0:23:41.636
<v Speaker 3>It's because that was my first love. When I was

0:23:41.636 --> 0:23:42.236
<v Speaker 3>ten year eleven.

0:23:42.236 --> 0:23:44.236
<v Speaker 2>I used to peel off from when kids were playing

0:23:44.236 --> 0:23:46.636
<v Speaker 2>football or we were whatever, we were climbing trees or whatever.

0:23:47.196 --> 0:23:49.356
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I would just go and disappear and I'd go

0:23:49.396 --> 0:23:51.316
<v Speaker 2>into my room on my own and just play for

0:23:51.356 --> 0:23:53.196
<v Speaker 2>a couple of hours, not even plugged in. And I

0:23:53.316 --> 0:23:58.116
<v Speaker 2>make all these discoveries and moving chord shapes around. And

0:23:59.356 --> 0:24:03.236
<v Speaker 2>you know what, man, I'm so grateful that I still

0:24:03.676 --> 0:24:08.116
<v Speaker 2>want to do that. Yeah, for fun. It's like it's

0:24:08.156 --> 0:24:08.636
<v Speaker 2>my hobby.

0:24:09.516 --> 0:24:09.916
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:24:10.796 --> 0:24:12.596
<v Speaker 1>It's the dream for any guitar player to have a

0:24:12.636 --> 0:24:14.876
<v Speaker 1>setup just like you have in Spiel to do that

0:24:14.956 --> 0:24:15.356
<v Speaker 1>all day.

0:24:15.396 --> 0:24:18.956
<v Speaker 3>That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, musician.

0:24:18.556 --> 0:24:21.076
<v Speaker 1>And you know whatever respective instrument is, like, that's the dream.

0:24:21.716 --> 0:24:22.196
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:24:22.236 --> 0:24:23.956
<v Speaker 2>But then when it comes time to do an album

0:24:24.036 --> 0:24:26.476
<v Speaker 2>sometimes I have to I know myself well enough that

0:24:26.876 --> 0:24:31.196
<v Speaker 2>I have to think about the guitar in a different way. Man,

0:24:31.436 --> 0:24:33.316
<v Speaker 2>if you give me an if you give me three

0:24:33.356 --> 0:24:36.596
<v Speaker 2>more lifetimes, okay, I'd love to be John McLaughlin.

0:24:37.476 --> 0:24:39.196
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ah, but.

0:24:39.236 --> 0:24:40.396
<v Speaker 3>I'm also quite happy.

0:24:40.596 --> 0:24:43.156
<v Speaker 2>But I'm also really happy having been the guitar player

0:24:43.196 --> 0:24:44.556
<v Speaker 2>in Modest Mouse for a few years.

0:24:44.796 --> 0:24:45.996
<v Speaker 3>That's fine by me.

0:24:46.476 --> 0:24:50.436
<v Speaker 1>That was incredible work, man, incredible record.

0:24:50.996 --> 0:24:54.596
<v Speaker 2>That was because I was in a situation with amazing chemistry.

0:24:55.436 --> 0:24:55.876
<v Speaker 3>There was a.

0:24:55.836 --> 0:25:00.796
<v Speaker 2>Moment when we were in Mississippi and we were recording

0:25:01.076 --> 0:25:03.236
<v Speaker 2>the recording. It's one of those times it was like

0:25:03.276 --> 0:25:05.996
<v Speaker 2>maybe what the four o'clock in the afternoon, We've been

0:25:06.356 --> 0:25:09.636
<v Speaker 2>trying to get the backing track down to some song

0:25:10.476 --> 0:25:13.076
<v Speaker 2>on week three or whatever, and I was just stood

0:25:13.076 --> 0:25:16.716
<v Speaker 2>there and then I just had a moment of present

0:25:16.796 --> 0:25:21.596
<v Speaker 2>moment awareness, as you know, as it's called, where I

0:25:21.716 --> 0:25:26.276
<v Speaker 2>just looked around and I went the chemistry in this

0:25:26.436 --> 0:25:30.396
<v Speaker 2>room with these bunch of people is really really special.

0:25:31.116 --> 0:25:35.596
<v Speaker 2>This particular bunch of people right now is not just

0:25:35.716 --> 0:25:38.196
<v Speaker 2>a good vibe, but it's really unusual.

0:25:39.076 --> 0:25:40.956
<v Speaker 3>Because one we had two drummers in that band.

0:25:40.996 --> 0:25:43.876
<v Speaker 2>One drummer was his thing was like he might have

0:25:43.956 --> 0:25:46.636
<v Speaker 2>been like, Okay, on this track, I hear pair Ubu,

0:25:46.996 --> 0:25:50.276
<v Speaker 2>or I hear public image, public Image, or r I

0:25:50.396 --> 0:25:53.756
<v Speaker 2>hear Stuart Copeland, So Joe plummerould be doing that. And

0:25:53.796 --> 0:25:57.596
<v Speaker 2>then Jerey Mike Green, who passed away just only a

0:25:57.596 --> 0:25:59.836
<v Speaker 2>few months ago, he was the other drummer, and he

0:25:59.876 --> 0:26:02.236
<v Speaker 2>would have been going in his head, oh, this is

0:26:02.356 --> 0:26:05.756
<v Speaker 2>like fellow cootie, or this is like a rave or

0:26:06.116 --> 0:26:06.756
<v Speaker 2>so yeah, there are.

0:26:06.676 --> 0:26:10.636
<v Speaker 3>Two drummers like that. And then the player Eric Judy.

0:26:10.716 --> 0:26:14.956
<v Speaker 2>He was always writing these like little tunes on either

0:26:14.996 --> 0:26:17.716
<v Speaker 2>accordion at that time, or he was teaching him Yeah,

0:26:17.716 --> 0:26:19.956
<v Speaker 2>he was teaching himself the acordion, teach himself the flute.

0:26:20.516 --> 0:26:22.436
<v Speaker 2>And he had some little riff that he'd be playing

0:26:22.476 --> 0:26:24.396
<v Speaker 2>on the flute, and then he just go, oh, I'm

0:26:24.476 --> 0:26:26.756
<v Speaker 2>just trying to do that on the base. So yeah,

0:26:26.756 --> 0:26:32.476
<v Speaker 2>these really unusual, cool, almost dugby basslines. And then the

0:26:32.716 --> 0:26:34.876
<v Speaker 2>other guy in the band, he's a real utility guy,

0:26:34.916 --> 0:26:37.076
<v Speaker 2>and he might have been doing something on a pedal

0:26:37.116 --> 0:26:40.436
<v Speaker 2>steel or his mind was somewhere else. And then Isaac's

0:26:40.436 --> 0:26:45.436
<v Speaker 2>got his amazing multi layered lyrical agenda that you know

0:26:45.556 --> 0:26:48.956
<v Speaker 2>is coming from all different places. And then I got

0:26:49.236 --> 0:26:50.996
<v Speaker 2>my thing that I was like when I got out

0:26:51.036 --> 0:26:52.956
<v Speaker 2>of bed that day or that week, I was going,

0:26:53.236 --> 0:26:54.836
<v Speaker 2>this is what I want my this is what I

0:26:54.876 --> 0:26:57.636
<v Speaker 2>want to bring to this outfit, whatever agenda I've got,

0:26:58.276 --> 0:27:00.556
<v Speaker 2>and it all fit, it all just fitted together.

0:27:01.276 --> 0:27:04.636
<v Speaker 1>Did you have to think through how you might blend

0:27:04.636 --> 0:27:06.436
<v Speaker 1>with this, because it seems like everyone felt like they

0:27:06.476 --> 0:27:08.876
<v Speaker 1>had their thing and you're kind of getting put into it.

0:27:09.476 --> 0:27:11.116
<v Speaker 1>Did it take your second to figure out, Okay, this

0:27:11.156 --> 0:27:12.876
<v Speaker 1>is what I want to bring or was it kinda

0:27:13.276 --> 0:27:14.676
<v Speaker 1>just luckily instantaneous.

0:27:15.156 --> 0:27:18.956
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I conceptualized it, which I don't mean to

0:27:18.956 --> 0:27:22.996
<v Speaker 2>sound very dry or contrived, even though no, I really

0:27:23.076 --> 0:27:26.356
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed going, what's my role here? How can I be

0:27:26.436 --> 0:27:34.276
<v Speaker 2>really useful and bring something melodic, catchy technical. It was

0:27:34.316 --> 0:27:37.476
<v Speaker 2>a little like Ocean six, and I happened to be

0:27:37.556 --> 0:27:41.036
<v Speaker 2>the kind of British bomb disposal expert or the safe cracker.

0:27:41.276 --> 0:27:44.796
<v Speaker 3>I was like the safer Yeah. No, I really enjoyed that.

0:27:44.876 --> 0:27:47.276
<v Speaker 2>I thought, Okay, I can't just put my head down

0:27:47.316 --> 0:27:50.156
<v Speaker 2>and go one, two, three, four and just play. I

0:27:50.276 --> 0:27:55.076
<v Speaker 2>really really enjoyed devising all these parts, and on that

0:27:55.196 --> 0:27:59.716
<v Speaker 2>record we were dead for anyone who's interested. Usually I'm

0:27:59.756 --> 0:28:01.556
<v Speaker 2>doing all the stuff on the left and Isaac's doing

0:28:01.556 --> 0:28:03.796
<v Speaker 2>the stuff on the right, and we this might be

0:28:03.836 --> 0:28:06.796
<v Speaker 2>getting a bit too music. But when we were coming

0:28:06.836 --> 0:28:08.556
<v Speaker 2>up with all those songs and those parts, we were

0:28:08.556 --> 0:28:12.836
<v Speaker 2>in this attic in Portland, and sometimes Isaac and the

0:28:12.836 --> 0:28:15.316
<v Speaker 2>way I started to think about it, it was like, you know,

0:28:15.756 --> 0:28:18.476
<v Speaker 2>two racing car drivers that were on the same team,

0:28:18.516 --> 0:28:21.596
<v Speaker 2>you know, like sometimes that McLaren and stuff the same team,

0:28:21.756 --> 0:28:23.876
<v Speaker 2>and we're both going around this track and then sometimes

0:28:23.916 --> 0:28:26.556
<v Speaker 2>it's like no after you, no after you, after you,

0:28:26.676 --> 0:28:30.916
<v Speaker 2>And occasionally we literally physically crashed into each other because

0:28:30.916 --> 0:28:34.156
<v Speaker 2>we were stood either back to back or next to

0:28:34.196 --> 0:28:36.156
<v Speaker 2>each other in this kind of little space and it

0:28:36.276 --> 0:28:38.636
<v Speaker 2>was really hot, and we're up there and we've been

0:28:38.636 --> 0:28:41.116
<v Speaker 2>out there for hours, and sometimes we'd be a bit

0:28:41.196 --> 0:28:44.156
<v Speaker 2>buzzed and I'm really we really listening to each other

0:28:44.156 --> 0:28:45.756
<v Speaker 2>and I'm trying to Then I'll just jump up the

0:28:45.796 --> 0:28:48.396
<v Speaker 2>octave and then he plays something and I'd go, I'll

0:28:48.436 --> 0:28:51.596
<v Speaker 2>get down there, and literally we sometimes would bang into

0:28:51.636 --> 0:28:54.236
<v Speaker 2>each other, and I thought that was really cool.

0:28:54.596 --> 0:28:58.276
<v Speaker 1>Wow, had you had that level of chemistry before, like

0:28:58.356 --> 0:29:00.076
<v Speaker 1>that level of intense.

0:29:00.956 --> 0:29:03.636
<v Speaker 2>In a different way, yeah, in the but it was

0:29:03.676 --> 0:29:06.276
<v Speaker 2>a different thing with all the bands that I've actually

0:29:06.276 --> 0:29:10.236
<v Speaker 2>been a band member of, I think in a certain

0:29:10.316 --> 0:29:13.116
<v Speaker 2>kind of intensity and a sort of belief in that

0:29:13.796 --> 0:29:17.676
<v Speaker 2>even even without my guitar, and I think I bring

0:29:17.716 --> 0:29:20.636
<v Speaker 2>a sort of belief in the mission because I think

0:29:20.636 --> 0:29:21.876
<v Speaker 2>that's very useful in a band.

0:29:22.156 --> 0:29:25.116
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I'm all in. I think people realize that now.

0:29:25.156 --> 0:29:27.116
<v Speaker 2>It used to frustrate me when I was younger, when

0:29:27.156 --> 0:29:30.476
<v Speaker 2>the Precious report it, because you know, when I was young,

0:29:30.476 --> 0:29:32.436
<v Speaker 2>guys to be a little oh, it looks like I'm

0:29:32.476 --> 0:29:32.996
<v Speaker 2>just bailing.

0:29:33.076 --> 0:29:34.876
<v Speaker 3>I'm leaving this band and I'm leaving that band.

0:29:34.876 --> 0:29:37.556
<v Speaker 2>But after all these years, now I think people realize

0:29:37.596 --> 0:29:39.676
<v Speaker 2>that it's anyone who's interested.

0:29:40.396 --> 0:29:42.196
<v Speaker 3>It's probably the reverse.

0:29:41.796 --> 0:29:44.436
<v Speaker 2>You know, like when I if I join a band,

0:29:44.476 --> 0:29:47.756
<v Speaker 2>I'm really in and my family and my family moved

0:29:47.756 --> 0:29:51.356
<v Speaker 2>to Portland. Or when I was in the cribs, you know,

0:29:51.396 --> 0:29:54.316
<v Speaker 2>I got in the van and I played all the shows,

0:29:54.356 --> 0:29:57.156
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I don't I don't expect any other

0:29:57.276 --> 0:30:00.756
<v Speaker 2>kind of separate treatment. I really get get in because

0:30:01.236 --> 0:30:03.236
<v Speaker 2>it's the way I was when I was fifteen in bands.

0:30:03.236 --> 0:30:05.556
<v Speaker 3>It's no different that it's so cool.

0:30:06.196 --> 0:30:08.036
<v Speaker 1>Was it because of that level of chemistry that you

0:30:08.116 --> 0:30:11.316
<v Speaker 1>realize I'm part of the band? Or was it already

0:30:11.356 --> 0:30:13.316
<v Speaker 1>sort of decided you're sort of in for the ride

0:30:13.316 --> 0:30:13.876
<v Speaker 1>at this point?

0:30:14.036 --> 0:30:14.676
<v Speaker 3>Now? Do you know what?

0:30:14.876 --> 0:30:17.436
<v Speaker 2>The very first night we got together, Isaac and I

0:30:17.476 --> 0:30:21.196
<v Speaker 2>wrote that the song that with that single dashboard became

0:30:21.236 --> 0:30:23.796
<v Speaker 2>the single. And then I woke up really jet like

0:30:23.876 --> 0:30:26.516
<v Speaker 2>that about whatever four o'clock in the morning because I'd

0:30:26.556 --> 0:30:28.676
<v Speaker 2>only got in from England the day before, and.

0:30:28.676 --> 0:30:30.316
<v Speaker 3>I woke up on a can of was like, where

0:30:30.396 --> 0:30:32.236
<v Speaker 3>am I? Oh, I'm in a hotel in Portland.

0:30:32.596 --> 0:30:35.036
<v Speaker 2>Did we just write like a really cool cool song

0:30:35.076 --> 0:30:38.636
<v Speaker 2>with this guy? In fact, we wrote two songs that night.

0:30:38.636 --> 0:30:41.396
<v Speaker 2>We wrote another one called we've got everything. That was

0:30:41.436 --> 0:30:45.036
<v Speaker 2>me and him, and then, frankly, because Maddy's Mouth had

0:30:45.036 --> 0:30:48.316
<v Speaker 2>paid for this English guitar player to come over for

0:30:48.556 --> 0:30:50.796
<v Speaker 2>ten days, they had to kind of get to rehearsal

0:30:50.836 --> 0:30:53.716
<v Speaker 2>for noon because you know, they've paid for my flight.

0:30:53.796 --> 0:30:56.276
<v Speaker 2>And it's kind of like a little bit like, all right, everybody,

0:30:56.316 --> 0:30:59.196
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know the ringers here or whatever. We

0:30:59.316 --> 0:31:02.236
<v Speaker 2>better get we better get here, right. But quite cleverly

0:31:02.276 --> 0:31:04.436
<v Speaker 2>Isaac had done it so a couple of members would join.

0:31:04.516 --> 0:31:07.276
<v Speaker 2>Each day we'd come, Me and the would feel each

0:31:07.316 --> 0:31:11.236
<v Speaker 2>other out. So as the days went on, with each

0:31:11.356 --> 0:31:14.356
<v Speaker 2>couple of people that arrived, and we would jam and

0:31:14.356 --> 0:31:16.436
<v Speaker 2>get a new song, and jam and get a new song.

0:31:17.276 --> 0:31:20.836
<v Speaker 2>Very quickly, I was just like, I like these guys,

0:31:21.156 --> 0:31:26.396
<v Speaker 2>they like me. There's such a positive feeling. Everyone's so enthusiastic.

0:31:27.476 --> 0:31:30.316
<v Speaker 2>Something's really happening here. And I formed a manager and

0:31:30.316 --> 0:31:32.636
<v Speaker 2>I said, listen, I'm suppose to be flying back on

0:31:32.756 --> 0:31:34.756
<v Speaker 2>Wednesday or whatever. I'm going to stay. I'm going to

0:31:34.796 --> 0:31:36.756
<v Speaker 2>stay for a few weeks. And I fell in love

0:31:36.756 --> 0:31:40.436
<v Speaker 2>with Portland the city. This was two thousand and five.

0:31:41.036 --> 0:31:44.356
<v Speaker 2>So to answer your question, by the time you get

0:31:44.356 --> 0:31:46.356
<v Speaker 2>that sort of brotherhood going in a band and you're

0:31:46.396 --> 0:31:49.956
<v Speaker 2>all really excited, and also you're playing together these long hours,

0:31:50.716 --> 0:31:52.476
<v Speaker 2>you know, six seven hours, and you've got a song

0:31:52.516 --> 0:31:53.916
<v Speaker 2>and you want to fix it the next day, and

0:31:54.156 --> 0:31:57.476
<v Speaker 2>you're working on this thing. It was that simple. It

0:31:57.556 --> 0:31:59.316
<v Speaker 2>just would have been really weird to bail.

0:32:00.356 --> 0:32:02.636
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ten days an out after building net.

0:32:03.076 --> 0:32:05.396
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And then that turned into two weeks and then

0:32:05.396 --> 0:32:08.236
<v Speaker 2>three weeks, and then we're all talking excitedly about, Oh man,

0:32:08.236 --> 0:32:09.596
<v Speaker 2>are you're going to be greatful?

0:32:09.596 --> 0:32:11.516
<v Speaker 3>You did some gigs and I was like, wow.

0:32:11.596 --> 0:32:14.676
<v Speaker 2>And the key thing is I really start to i've

0:32:14.676 --> 0:32:17.276
<v Speaker 2>done this with a few projects. I start to really

0:32:17.316 --> 0:32:21.276
<v Speaker 2>care about the songs we're making. I really really care

0:32:21.316 --> 0:32:23.956
<v Speaker 2>about them, even if I haven't written, like in the

0:32:23.956 --> 0:32:27.396
<v Speaker 2>the you know, my relationship with Matt Johnson, I really

0:32:27.396 --> 0:32:30.156
<v Speaker 2>believed in what he was doing and some songs, you know,

0:32:30.196 --> 0:32:32.956
<v Speaker 2>we would make these backing tracks and he'd be like,

0:32:33.956 --> 0:32:36.156
<v Speaker 2>you know, soul searching about the lyrics and this isn't

0:32:36.236 --> 0:32:38.236
<v Speaker 2>right and that isn't right. And I felt like I

0:32:38.276 --> 0:32:40.236
<v Speaker 2>was going through all of that with him, you know.

0:32:40.276 --> 0:32:44.276
<v Speaker 2>And we did this album Dusking in ninety two. But

0:32:44.316 --> 0:32:47.116
<v Speaker 2>that's what I mean about being all in. You know,

0:32:47.276 --> 0:32:50.436
<v Speaker 2>people don't really know that about about me. You know,

0:32:51.076 --> 0:32:53.836
<v Speaker 2>I'm twenty four to seven. If I'm in a band, how.

0:32:53.756 --> 0:32:56.476
<v Speaker 1>Does that translate to when you're when you're leading your

0:32:56.516 --> 0:32:56.956
<v Speaker 1>own group.

0:32:57.676 --> 0:33:01.476
<v Speaker 2>It's very different with my own band because it's a

0:33:01.516 --> 0:33:05.076
<v Speaker 2>different scenario. With my band, they're there, we've had we've

0:33:05.116 --> 0:33:08.076
<v Speaker 2>been together now ten years, the same lineup. We all

0:33:08.116 --> 0:33:12.836
<v Speaker 2>live in the same postcode pretty much, but we all, hey, look,

0:33:12.876 --> 0:33:14.796
<v Speaker 2>we all live within ten miles of each other, which

0:33:14.836 --> 0:33:17.396
<v Speaker 2>is kind of unusual for guys of our age. I've

0:33:17.436 --> 0:33:19.676
<v Speaker 2>been in bands where people live in different cities, in

0:33:19.716 --> 0:33:20.556
<v Speaker 2>different countries.

0:33:21.396 --> 0:33:22.796
<v Speaker 3>That was a very deliberate thing.

0:33:22.836 --> 0:33:25.716
<v Speaker 2>When I came back from Portland, I moved to Manchester,

0:33:25.836 --> 0:33:28.676
<v Speaker 2>not because it's my hometown. I moved here because it's

0:33:28.676 --> 0:33:31.276
<v Speaker 2>a really great place to run a group, and I

0:33:31.356 --> 0:33:33.916
<v Speaker 2>knew these musicians and I wanted for us to all

0:33:34.316 --> 0:33:36.476
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be at a call a rehearsal for

0:33:36.556 --> 0:33:38.236
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow night and we all be able to get there.

0:33:38.356 --> 0:33:41.036
<v Speaker 2>Someone doesn't have to get on a train or a plane, right. So,

0:33:41.876 --> 0:33:44.676
<v Speaker 2>But why it's different in my band is I write

0:33:44.716 --> 0:33:47.756
<v Speaker 2>songs and then I bring them to the band and

0:33:47.796 --> 0:33:52.516
<v Speaker 2>they learn them, and we learn them up and I

0:33:52.596 --> 0:33:54.396
<v Speaker 2>kind of run it and that's the way they like it,

0:33:54.476 --> 0:33:54.596
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:33:54.716 --> 0:33:56.276
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we're really very much a group.

0:33:56.556 --> 0:34:02.116
<v Speaker 2>But all the torturous I guess, the torturous process where

0:34:02.156 --> 0:34:05.116
<v Speaker 2>the singer, which is me in this case, is soul

0:34:05.196 --> 0:34:08.356
<v Speaker 2>searching about lyrics and all that. My guys just lead

0:34:08.396 --> 0:34:10.196
<v Speaker 2>me to it and they say, look, give me a

0:34:10.196 --> 0:34:11.356
<v Speaker 2>call when you've got the thing done.

0:34:11.356 --> 0:34:17.316
<v Speaker 3>Man, the bastards. So in a way, I suppose.

0:34:17.196 --> 0:34:21.276
<v Speaker 2>In my experience my band when we first got together,

0:34:21.556 --> 0:34:25.236
<v Speaker 2>the closest that i'd seen. It's a bit It's like

0:34:25.316 --> 0:34:27.996
<v Speaker 2>I have a sort of Beck's band. We kind of

0:34:28.956 --> 0:34:31.636
<v Speaker 2>when we started, we kind of went that's kind of

0:34:31.676 --> 0:34:33.916
<v Speaker 2>the yardstick for the kind of music, like a British

0:34:33.996 --> 0:34:36.396
<v Speaker 2>version of that really oh cool.

0:34:36.516 --> 0:34:38.236
<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean, Like when you go and

0:34:38.276 --> 0:34:38.716
<v Speaker 3>see Beck.

0:34:38.796 --> 0:34:41.876
<v Speaker 2>It was like really tight and the tempos were usually

0:34:41.916 --> 0:34:45.276
<v Speaker 2>the tempos were up, and the drummers drums were really snappy,

0:34:45.396 --> 0:34:48.716
<v Speaker 2>and he was a leader. But they were also a band,

0:34:49.036 --> 0:34:51.316
<v Speaker 2>you know, but you knew the guy was going to

0:34:51.356 --> 0:34:53.956
<v Speaker 2>have a good band. I kind of decided with my

0:34:54.036 --> 0:34:55.876
<v Speaker 2>band that that's a way I wanted is to be

0:34:55.956 --> 0:34:57.156
<v Speaker 2>really a bit like Beck's band.

0:34:57.956 --> 0:35:00.356
<v Speaker 1>Well, what makes Manchester a great place to sort of

0:35:00.396 --> 0:35:01.196
<v Speaker 1>run a band out of?

0:35:02.036 --> 0:35:05.796
<v Speaker 2>Well, what Seattle was to La in the nineties, Manchester

0:35:06.036 --> 0:35:08.076
<v Speaker 2>is that to London, do you know what I mean?

0:35:08.156 --> 0:35:11.996
<v Speaker 2>So where being a musician's a little easier in Manchester's

0:35:11.996 --> 0:35:15.996
<v Speaker 2>now like well books like Seattle is very there's a

0:35:16.036 --> 0:35:21.116
<v Speaker 2>lot of money in it. It's a second city, so

0:35:21.116 --> 0:35:24.236
<v Speaker 2>so London. If you're a musician, okay, and you've got

0:35:24.236 --> 0:35:26.356
<v Speaker 2>to get rehearsal, it takes you twice a length of

0:35:26.396 --> 0:35:28.996
<v Speaker 2>time to get to rehearsal space as it does in Manchester.

0:35:29.356 --> 0:35:31.716
<v Speaker 2>People are usually am I love London and there all

0:35:31.756 --> 0:35:34.636
<v Speaker 2>the time, but musicians have to live quite a long

0:35:34.676 --> 0:35:36.876
<v Speaker 2>way out of town because it's really expensive to have

0:35:36.956 --> 0:35:40.276
<v Speaker 2>apartments there and all of this sort of stuff. Manchester

0:35:40.356 --> 0:35:42.796
<v Speaker 2>is a little bit more, is a little more like Seattle.

0:35:43.556 --> 0:35:45.916
<v Speaker 2>And you know, like Seattle, it had a big movement.

0:35:46.156 --> 0:35:50.116
<v Speaker 2>It rains a lot like Seattle, so it's an indoor culture.

0:35:50.316 --> 0:35:51.836
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole load of things, you know, just to

0:35:53.116 --> 0:35:57.196
<v Speaker 2>historically make Manchester really great to run to run, well,

0:35:57.236 --> 0:35:59.716
<v Speaker 2>there's a history here as well. So for me in

0:35:59.716 --> 0:36:02.796
<v Speaker 2>my generation, I grew up knowing like, well, the Buzzcocks

0:36:02.836 --> 0:36:06.036
<v Speaker 2>did it, okay, I mean yeah, Buzzcocks, I mean they

0:36:06.036 --> 0:36:09.516
<v Speaker 2>were just like gods to my generation. Buzzcocks proved that

0:36:09.556 --> 0:36:12.116
<v Speaker 2>you didn't have to live in the capital, that you

0:36:12.196 --> 0:36:16.036
<v Speaker 2>could live in the provinces and make great, really cool music.

0:36:16.636 --> 0:36:19.836
<v Speaker 2>Because before that it was just it was all about London, London, London.

0:36:19.916 --> 0:36:22.036
<v Speaker 2>All these bands it was either London and La really

0:36:22.076 --> 0:36:25.916
<v Speaker 2>London La. So you've got a heritage. And then so

0:36:25.996 --> 0:36:28.916
<v Speaker 2>because Buzzcox did it, Smith's raided to do it, and

0:36:28.956 --> 0:36:31.636
<v Speaker 2>the Fall and then because a New Order and Joy

0:36:31.676 --> 0:36:33.996
<v Speaker 2>Division and because the Smiths and Joy Vision and New

0:36:34.116 --> 0:36:37.476
<v Speaker 2>Order did it, then Happy Mondays and Stone Roses knew

0:36:37.476 --> 0:36:39.636
<v Speaker 2>they could do it. And then because they could saw that,

0:36:39.796 --> 0:36:42.156
<v Speaker 2>you know, they did it, then Oasis saw that they

0:36:42.156 --> 0:36:44.956
<v Speaker 2>could do it, and so on. Youngsters know that you

0:36:45.076 --> 0:36:47.836
<v Speaker 2>can be a Manchester band, you know. And so that

0:36:47.876 --> 0:36:50.276
<v Speaker 2>goes back, that goes right back to the seventies now

0:36:50.316 --> 0:36:51.036
<v Speaker 2>with Buzzcocks.

0:36:51.396 --> 0:36:52.556
<v Speaker 3>So having that in.

0:36:52.516 --> 0:36:55.956
<v Speaker 2>The air and knowing that it's a musical town is

0:36:55.996 --> 0:36:57.796
<v Speaker 2>a good place to sort of grow up around when

0:36:57.796 --> 0:37:01.476
<v Speaker 2>you're a fledging musician. But really it goes way back

0:37:01.596 --> 0:37:05.556
<v Speaker 2>historically to like the eighteen sixties eighteen seventies when Manchester

0:37:05.716 --> 0:37:08.636
<v Speaker 2>was literally the industrial capital of the world and the

0:37:08.676 --> 0:37:13.396
<v Speaker 2>Industrial Revolution and all the immigrants came so from really everywhere,

0:37:13.476 --> 0:37:16.356
<v Speaker 2>Eastern Europe and the Caribbean and West Indies and Ireland

0:37:16.396 --> 0:37:19.076
<v Speaker 2>in my case, and all of this business. So there's

0:37:19.236 --> 0:37:23.316
<v Speaker 2>it's a real melting pot Manchester of working class immigrants

0:37:23.516 --> 0:37:26.116
<v Speaker 2>and they all brought their own cultures and their own

0:37:26.316 --> 0:37:29.796
<v Speaker 2>need for entertainment. So a lot of comedians, Jewish comedians

0:37:29.836 --> 0:37:32.076
<v Speaker 2>came out here. A lot of people came from Eastern Europe.

0:37:32.876 --> 0:37:35.396
<v Speaker 2>In my case, you know, a lot of my family

0:37:35.956 --> 0:37:37.836
<v Speaker 2>they moved over in the early sixties and they came

0:37:37.876 --> 0:37:40.756
<v Speaker 2>over to work in construction and building.

0:37:40.436 --> 0:37:41.676
<v Speaker 3>The roads and all of this stuff.

0:37:41.676 --> 0:37:45.316
<v Speaker 2>The Irish and my parents went to all the Irish

0:37:45.316 --> 0:37:47.116
<v Speaker 2>clubs and they would see all the show bands, and

0:37:47.876 --> 0:37:51.276
<v Speaker 2>me and my sister would go sometimes to these places

0:37:51.276 --> 0:37:53.156
<v Speaker 2>in the afternoon where my dad was a booker for

0:37:53.196 --> 0:37:55.236
<v Speaker 2>these bands, and so we grew up around.

0:37:55.356 --> 0:37:58.036
<v Speaker 1>Your dad booked bands, Yeah he did, you.

0:38:00.196 --> 0:38:04.156
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that was in the seventies. Me and my

0:38:04.156 --> 0:38:04.796
<v Speaker 3>sister would be there.

0:38:04.836 --> 0:38:09.636
<v Speaker 2>We'd be giving like soda and just loads of those sugar,

0:38:10.076 --> 0:38:13.276
<v Speaker 2>and I'd sit there and I'd watch these cabaret singers

0:38:13.316 --> 0:38:15.876
<v Speaker 2>and they'd be their vocal their microphones would be going

0:38:15.916 --> 0:38:19.836
<v Speaker 2>into a space echo or a tape echo Watkins copycat,

0:38:20.636 --> 0:38:23.396
<v Speaker 2>and there'd be an organ player and a drummer and

0:38:23.436 --> 0:38:25.756
<v Speaker 2>if I was looking at the big guitar player and

0:38:25.796 --> 0:38:28.476
<v Speaker 2>they'd be playing all these kind of seventy songs and

0:38:28.556 --> 0:38:31.156
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was amazing. I just watched these being

0:38:31.196 --> 0:38:34.116
<v Speaker 2>my sister, watched these bands be like, holy shit, this

0:38:34.236 --> 0:38:36.916
<v Speaker 2>is great. And sometimes I'd go, no, they're not too good, Dad,

0:38:36.956 --> 0:38:40.396
<v Speaker 2>Now they're not too good. But just seeing the amplifiers

0:38:40.396 --> 0:38:42.396
<v Speaker 2>and the electric guitars and all that, I would have

0:38:42.396 --> 0:38:43.516
<v Speaker 2>been like nine or ten.

0:38:43.716 --> 0:38:46.236
<v Speaker 3>I thought that was magic. Yeah. Wow.

0:38:46.556 --> 0:38:49.956
<v Speaker 1>So your dad did construction and then somehow got into

0:38:49.956 --> 0:38:50.596
<v Speaker 1>booking bead.

0:38:50.836 --> 0:38:53.036
<v Speaker 2>What was that, Well, that was to do with the

0:38:53.076 --> 0:38:55.556
<v Speaker 2>Catholic That was to do with the Catholic Church because

0:38:55.596 --> 0:38:58.716
<v Speaker 2>he was numb. So he's a working class Irish guys

0:38:58.756 --> 0:39:01.316
<v Speaker 2>are saying he'd be laid pipes, he dug holes in

0:39:01.356 --> 0:39:03.116
<v Speaker 2>the road and my dad, they're very proud of it.

0:39:03.796 --> 0:39:07.156
<v Speaker 2>But to do with the Catholic Church, big Irish thing.

0:39:07.636 --> 0:39:10.876
<v Speaker 2>They would have bands on on a Friday, a Friday

0:39:10.876 --> 0:39:13.836
<v Speaker 2>and a Saturday night, and all these bands would go

0:39:13.876 --> 0:39:17.836
<v Speaker 2>an audition in these bars or these pubs, usually on

0:39:17.876 --> 0:39:20.996
<v Speaker 2>a Sunday afternoon. And all of these used to call

0:39:21.036 --> 0:39:24.676
<v Speaker 2>themselves agents. But all these people who could say, hey, listen,

0:39:24.956 --> 0:39:28.236
<v Speaker 2>come and play at my social club for fifty pounds,

0:39:28.916 --> 0:39:31.996
<v Speaker 2>so they would go an audition for people like my dad, you.

0:39:31.956 --> 0:39:33.636
<v Speaker 1>Know, so amazing.

0:39:34.116 --> 0:39:36.236
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean they weren't all that great, but

0:39:36.316 --> 0:39:37.316
<v Speaker 2>to me it was magic.

0:39:38.196 --> 0:39:40.516
<v Speaker 1>There must have been an education onto itself, you know,

0:39:40.596 --> 0:39:43.116
<v Speaker 1>in terms of how to be and on stage, and

0:39:43.356 --> 0:39:44.236
<v Speaker 1>you know, one per.

0:39:45.236 --> 0:39:47.036
<v Speaker 3>One percent what it was was.

0:39:47.156 --> 0:39:49.436
<v Speaker 2>The big thing for me was that I when I

0:39:49.476 --> 0:39:52.916
<v Speaker 2>watched these bands set up their equipment when I was

0:39:52.956 --> 0:39:56.236
<v Speaker 2>about seven or eight at these parties. So this was

0:39:56.236 --> 0:39:58.196
<v Speaker 2>a little early because we used to have these bands

0:39:58.236 --> 0:40:01.716
<v Speaker 2>play at Christena it'd been out and reinforce the cultural stereotype.

0:40:01.716 --> 0:40:03.836
<v Speaker 2>But there was a lot of Christenings and a lot

0:40:03.876 --> 0:40:08.316
<v Speaker 2>of weddings, and my aunties and uncles I used to

0:40:08.316 --> 0:40:11.476
<v Speaker 2>have these bands play. But when I saw these adults

0:40:11.916 --> 0:40:14.436
<v Speaker 2>setting up their equipment, that was when it occurred to

0:40:14.476 --> 0:40:18.756
<v Speaker 2>me that, oh, this is a job. Ah he's nearly

0:40:18.796 --> 0:40:21.556
<v Speaker 2>always guys, these guys, and I see the same people,

0:40:21.556 --> 0:40:23.956
<v Speaker 2>the same guys, and they'd be bringing their amplifiers and

0:40:23.996 --> 0:40:26.316
<v Speaker 2>someone setting the drum kit. I'd be like, Oh, as

0:40:26.356 --> 0:40:29.316
<v Speaker 2>an adult, you can do that. It's not just people

0:40:29.316 --> 0:40:31.196
<v Speaker 2>on the television. Because on the television I just see

0:40:31.196 --> 0:40:36.156
<v Speaker 2>these bands magically appear and looking great, you know, with

0:40:36.236 --> 0:40:38.476
<v Speaker 2>the velvet suits on and all of this. And I'd

0:40:38.476 --> 0:40:41.636
<v Speaker 2>actually see these men setting up their equipment and pulling

0:40:41.676 --> 0:40:44.916
<v Speaker 2>these amplifiers and feeding back and testing, and.

0:40:44.836 --> 0:40:48.676
<v Speaker 3>I was like, where do I sign up for that? Wow,

0:40:48.796 --> 0:40:49.956
<v Speaker 3>that looks like a great job.

0:40:50.756 --> 0:40:54.636
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and your parents must have been thrilled as much

0:40:54.636 --> 0:40:56.396
<v Speaker 1>as in the music as they are that you started

0:40:56.436 --> 0:40:58.956
<v Speaker 1>thinking that way, right, Yeah, you know.

0:40:59.276 --> 0:41:01.516
<v Speaker 3>I think a lot of people can probably relate to this.

0:41:01.596 --> 0:41:05.636
<v Speaker 2>They were absolutely thrilled until at fifteen I decided or

0:41:05.676 --> 0:41:09.796
<v Speaker 2>fourteen decided that I was gonna go for it and

0:41:10.316 --> 0:41:14.676
<v Speaker 2>not go to school. So now that it's worked out

0:41:14.756 --> 0:41:16.876
<v Speaker 2>and I've actually, you know, it's my day job, they're

0:41:16.916 --> 0:41:20.236
<v Speaker 2>really really proud. Much more than the fact that I'm famous.

0:41:20.516 --> 0:41:23.876
<v Speaker 2>They're just really proud that I'm a full time guitar player. Seriously,

0:41:24.516 --> 0:41:27.596
<v Speaker 2>and if I ever make records where there's not enough

0:41:27.636 --> 0:41:30.356
<v Speaker 2>guitar on it, I kind of get to hear about it.

0:41:34.396 --> 0:41:37.876
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, but you know, mount craft work. No, it's okay,

0:41:37.876 --> 0:41:40.396
<v Speaker 3>I'm playing I'm playing synth on this one. So they

0:41:40.476 --> 0:41:41.156
<v Speaker 3>proud of that.

0:41:41.276 --> 0:41:43.596
<v Speaker 2>But you know, like a lot of teenagers, you know,

0:41:43.596 --> 0:41:46.396
<v Speaker 2>I went through kind of a pretty rebellious and rough patch.

0:41:46.996 --> 0:41:49.196
<v Speaker 2>We went through a kind of a bit of a

0:41:49.676 --> 0:41:53.636
<v Speaker 2>you know, typical sort of rebellious kind of They were

0:41:53.636 --> 0:41:57.076
<v Speaker 2>worried that when I stopped going to school and was

0:41:57.156 --> 0:42:00.956
<v Speaker 2>very obviously you know, taking drugs and spending all my

0:42:01.036 --> 0:42:04.796
<v Speaker 2>time with these reprobates. But it was all really wrapped

0:42:04.836 --> 0:42:08.076
<v Speaker 2>up with the music as well. It wasn't just hedonistic stuff.

0:42:08.076 --> 0:42:09.716
<v Speaker 3>I joined the band. Thing was I joined the band

0:42:09.716 --> 0:42:12.476
<v Speaker 3>when I was fifteen, who have adults.

0:42:11.956 --> 0:42:17.716
<v Speaker 2>Who were very dubious, and my parents kind of said, well,

0:42:17.716 --> 0:42:19.556
<v Speaker 2>it's either that or you have to get out.

0:42:19.836 --> 0:42:22.756
<v Speaker 3>So so I just left harm you know, but just

0:42:22.796 --> 0:42:23.076
<v Speaker 3>got it.

0:42:24.516 --> 0:42:26.956
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that was a bit contentious, and you know,

0:42:27.076 --> 0:42:29.796
<v Speaker 2>so I was a little wild fifteen sixteen.

0:42:29.876 --> 0:42:31.636
<v Speaker 1>But what was your sister thinking.

0:42:32.436 --> 0:42:35.836
<v Speaker 2>My sister was the mediator. She was the great mediator.

0:42:35.956 --> 0:42:37.996
<v Speaker 2>She's only eleven months younger than me. We were very

0:42:38.036 --> 0:42:40.796
<v Speaker 2>tight and still are, you know. But it's a funny

0:42:40.796 --> 0:42:42.756
<v Speaker 2>one because yeah, they were proud of me being a musician.

0:42:42.796 --> 0:42:44.676
<v Speaker 2>But I think when I actually was like, listen, I'm

0:42:44.676 --> 0:42:46.156
<v Speaker 2>going to go for it, and I'm going to go

0:42:46.196 --> 0:42:48.716
<v Speaker 2>to London and I'm gonna even though you know, I

0:42:48.796 --> 0:42:51.116
<v Speaker 2>had no money whatsoever, and I'm going to join this

0:42:51.236 --> 0:42:55.196
<v Speaker 2>band and these adults. So they were very obviously kind

0:42:55.236 --> 0:42:58.716
<v Speaker 2>of dangerous characters. You know, they're pretty druggy. They sounded

0:42:58.756 --> 0:43:03.316
<v Speaker 2>like a cross between Hawkwind and I guess the Stooges.

0:43:03.996 --> 0:43:06.356
<v Speaker 3>Of course, sister Ray. I think their tracks up on YouTube.

0:43:06.636 --> 0:43:08.036
<v Speaker 3>It's got a song called suicide.

0:43:08.076 --> 0:43:10.636
<v Speaker 2>So because he'd made a rack, they sought me out

0:43:10.676 --> 0:43:13.076
<v Speaker 2>at fifteen, right, and they were like coming being the band,

0:43:13.116 --> 0:43:15.196
<v Speaker 2>and I'm pretty sure I said, listen, you are aware

0:43:15.236 --> 0:43:18.316
<v Speaker 2>that I'm I am fifteen or fourteen even I think

0:43:19.196 --> 0:43:20.516
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want it to be a freak show, and

0:43:20.516 --> 0:43:22.236
<v Speaker 2>they were like, hey, listen, now, come on, come on,

0:43:22.516 --> 0:43:25.076
<v Speaker 2>it'll be cool. So I used to go to their

0:43:25.236 --> 0:43:27.356
<v Speaker 2>rehearsal a couple of times a week and it was

0:43:27.396 --> 0:43:30.036
<v Speaker 2>the Red Light area, really kind of rough area in

0:43:30.036 --> 0:43:34.076
<v Speaker 2>Manchester a couple of nights a week, and to subsidize that,

0:43:34.716 --> 0:43:38.836
<v Speaker 2>I used to sell clothes and pals and working clothes shops.

0:43:39.076 --> 0:43:41.116
<v Speaker 2>But anyway I left, I had to leave home. I

0:43:41.116 --> 0:43:42.956
<v Speaker 2>had to leave home to do that because my parents

0:43:42.956 --> 0:43:44.796
<v Speaker 2>didn't approve. And that was a little bit of a

0:43:45.036 --> 0:43:46.996
<v Speaker 2>kind of a rough bit of a look back now,

0:43:47.036 --> 0:43:48.556
<v Speaker 2>and it was a bit of a wild time for me.

0:43:48.676 --> 0:43:54.596
<v Speaker 1>But London and seventy seven at fourteen fifteen, yeah, must

0:43:54.636 --> 0:43:55.956
<v Speaker 1>have been that must have been crazy.

0:43:56.636 --> 0:43:58.356
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was amazing because I went to the I

0:43:58.436 --> 0:44:01.436
<v Speaker 2>went to the Marquee when I was fifteen to see

0:44:01.556 --> 0:44:04.036
<v Speaker 2>a band called Pearl Harbor and the Explosions and they

0:44:04.036 --> 0:44:07.316
<v Speaker 2>had the Stray Cats. Who else was in London at

0:44:07.356 --> 0:44:11.596
<v Speaker 2>the time, the class she was still around. This is

0:44:11.596 --> 0:44:16.236
<v Speaker 2>seventy eight, seventy nine, and I was really into this

0:44:16.276 --> 0:44:17.196
<v Speaker 2>band called the only Ones.

0:44:17.236 --> 0:44:21.116
<v Speaker 3>You know, I sung Another Girl Another Planet. Yeah, So

0:44:21.636 --> 0:44:22.156
<v Speaker 3>I fell.

0:44:21.996 --> 0:44:23.876
<v Speaker 2>In love with this band called the only Ones and

0:44:24.036 --> 0:44:27.436
<v Speaker 2>I followed them around quite a bit and that involved,

0:44:27.476 --> 0:44:31.796
<v Speaker 2>you know, sleeping on train stations. Me and Andy Rogue, who

0:44:31.836 --> 0:44:34.396
<v Speaker 2>was my best palet at the time. I enlisted in

0:44:34.436 --> 0:44:37.236
<v Speaker 2>the Smith, so we Yeah, I used to hang around

0:44:37.276 --> 0:44:39.476
<v Speaker 2>close shops, and that was all to me. That was

0:44:39.516 --> 0:44:43.396
<v Speaker 2>all part of the apprenticeship of being a musician because

0:44:43.396 --> 0:44:45.596
<v Speaker 2>I heard loads of records. As I say, I saw

0:44:45.676 --> 0:44:49.516
<v Speaker 2>Brian Setzer when I was I think fourteen, I saw

0:44:49.556 --> 0:44:52.716
<v Speaker 2>Patty Smith when I was fourteen, I saw the Cramps,

0:44:53.356 --> 0:44:56.596
<v Speaker 2>And to me, all of this stuff has made me

0:44:56.676 --> 0:44:59.556
<v Speaker 2>what I am really seeing all those bands when I

0:44:59.596 --> 0:45:00.196
<v Speaker 2>was really young.

0:45:00.836 --> 0:45:02.836
<v Speaker 1>What'd you think of Brian Setzer at the time.

0:45:02.836 --> 0:45:04.356
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't believe it. He was amazing.

0:45:04.716 --> 0:45:06.436
<v Speaker 1>And what were the Straight Cats doing over there?

0:45:06.996 --> 0:45:10.276
<v Speaker 3>They had a hit, They had a I think they were.

0:45:10.636 --> 0:45:12.916
<v Speaker 2>England was where they took off, and me and my

0:45:12.956 --> 0:45:15.676
<v Speaker 2>pals were like, listen, there's this crazy guitar player.

0:45:15.876 --> 0:45:18.156
<v Speaker 3>It's rockabilly band. I saw them.

0:45:18.196 --> 0:45:20.076
<v Speaker 2>I think there was you know, maybe about thirty people

0:45:20.076 --> 0:45:22.396
<v Speaker 2>in the audience in this whole lot held like eight

0:45:22.476 --> 0:45:23.196
<v Speaker 2>hundred people.

0:45:23.796 --> 0:45:25.956
<v Speaker 3>So all of that stuff. You know, I saw Peru Boo,

0:45:26.836 --> 0:45:27.836
<v Speaker 3>and I saw a whole load.

0:45:27.676 --> 0:45:29.276
<v Speaker 2>Of bands I didn't care for because we used to

0:45:29.316 --> 0:45:31.796
<v Speaker 2>sneak into all the venues. So I look back on

0:45:31.836 --> 0:45:34.396
<v Speaker 2>all of that and it can sound romantic, and I

0:45:34.396 --> 0:45:36.956
<v Speaker 2>can make it sound romantic, and that's because it actually was.

0:45:37.956 --> 0:45:40.236
<v Speaker 2>I had no problem with walking back from a venue

0:45:40.676 --> 0:45:42.516
<v Speaker 2>from going to see some band, whether I liked him

0:45:42.596 --> 0:45:46.116
<v Speaker 2>or not, walking back for miles with no train fair

0:45:46.636 --> 0:45:50.516
<v Speaker 2>and it all feeling like it was part of an apprenticeship, you.

0:45:50.436 --> 0:45:52.796
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah, yeah, all part of the mission.

0:45:53.596 --> 0:45:54.116
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:45:54.676 --> 0:45:56.076
<v Speaker 1>How did you meet Andy Rourke?

0:45:56.956 --> 0:45:59.956
<v Speaker 2>We went to the same school and he was you know,

0:45:59.996 --> 0:46:04.356
<v Speaker 2>it's like with guys in school. I saw a guy

0:46:04.556 --> 0:46:08.636
<v Speaker 2>another guy with long hair, long scruffy hair, and we

0:46:08.636 --> 0:46:10.276
<v Speaker 2>were either going to be friends or we were going

0:46:10.356 --> 0:46:15.396
<v Speaker 2>to fight. We were either like in competition or we

0:46:15.396 --> 0:46:18.916
<v Speaker 2>were comrades, and I think neither of us wanted to fight.

0:46:19.596 --> 0:46:22.236
<v Speaker 2>You know. I I had a button as you kept

0:46:22.276 --> 0:46:24.116
<v Speaker 2>in America at a badge that said that it was

0:46:24.116 --> 0:46:25.396
<v Speaker 2>a Neil Young Tonight's tonight.

0:46:25.916 --> 0:46:26.796
<v Speaker 3>And he walked up.

0:46:26.676 --> 0:46:30.396
<v Speaker 2>To me and he went to night to night and

0:46:30.436 --> 0:46:33.316
<v Speaker 2>he did this really amazing Neil Young impression, and I

0:46:33.356 --> 0:46:35.636
<v Speaker 2>was just really impressed that he knew what tonight's tonight was.

0:46:36.276 --> 0:46:37.796
<v Speaker 3>You do that kind of thing when you were a kid,

0:46:37.836 --> 0:46:41.636
<v Speaker 3>It's so important. I was like, yeah, wow. I mean

0:46:41.676 --> 0:46:43.556
<v Speaker 3>I wasn't going to wear one that had harvest.

0:46:43.636 --> 0:46:45.276
<v Speaker 2>It had to be obviously, it had to be a

0:46:45.316 --> 0:46:49.036
<v Speaker 2>really obscure badge, and he walked up to me and

0:46:49.036 --> 0:46:51.356
<v Speaker 2>he just sang Tonight Tonight, and I thought, Wow, this

0:46:51.436 --> 0:46:54.196
<v Speaker 2>guy's cool, and then we just became friends for life.

0:46:54.276 --> 0:46:54.436
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:46:54.516 --> 0:46:55.756
<v Speaker 3>It's beautiful. Yeah.

0:46:55.836 --> 0:46:57.916
<v Speaker 1>Did you see Neil on that Tonight's the Night tour

0:46:57.956 --> 0:46:58.476
<v Speaker 1>in London?

0:46:58.916 --> 0:46:59.236
<v Speaker 2>No?

0:46:59.236 --> 0:47:00.836
<v Speaker 3>No, that was I was too young for that.

0:47:00.996 --> 0:47:03.716
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know the big amazing story about that, about

0:47:03.756 --> 0:47:04.956
<v Speaker 2>Tonight's to Night that tour.

0:47:05.596 --> 0:47:07.756
<v Speaker 3>So he came over to England.

0:47:07.796 --> 0:47:09.676
<v Speaker 2>He played at the Scarlet, which I might be wrong

0:47:09.716 --> 0:47:12.116
<v Speaker 2>about it might be the Rainbow, but anyway, John Lyden

0:47:12.156 --> 0:47:15.116
<v Speaker 2>told me this. So he comes and the album hadn't

0:47:15.156 --> 0:47:18.836
<v Speaker 2>been released yet, and it's also a real down heavy album,

0:47:18.996 --> 0:47:21.956
<v Speaker 2>as you know, right. Anyway, he comes out and he's

0:47:21.996 --> 0:47:25.116
<v Speaker 2>got scraggly beard and he's drinking loads of tequila and

0:47:25.396 --> 0:47:27.396
<v Speaker 2>the stage and if you look on the inside of

0:47:27.396 --> 0:47:30.396
<v Speaker 2>that record, the stage set is crazy. It's got platform

0:47:30.436 --> 0:47:33.236
<v Speaker 2>boots hanging up and it's got like a it's got

0:47:33.316 --> 0:47:37.036
<v Speaker 2>hub caps all over the stage and a fake palm tree.

0:47:37.236 --> 0:47:40.436
<v Speaker 2>So he comes out and he starts playing this album

0:47:40.516 --> 0:47:43.556
<v Speaker 2>no one's ever heard. So he plays Tonight's Tonight from

0:47:43.636 --> 0:47:46.796
<v Speaker 2>start to finish. It's not even been released yet, and

0:47:46.836 --> 0:47:50.036
<v Speaker 2>it's this real down alcohol kind of thing and he

0:47:50.116 --> 0:47:52.156
<v Speaker 2>plays it and the audience is like, what the hell

0:47:52.276 --> 0:47:54.676
<v Speaker 2>is this? And it's going down kind of badly. He

0:47:54.716 --> 0:47:57.236
<v Speaker 2>goes off and he gets called back on for the

0:47:57.356 --> 0:48:00.356
<v Speaker 2>encore and he says to the audience, now I'm going

0:48:00.396 --> 0:48:02.716
<v Speaker 2>to play one that you've heard before, and he plays

0:48:02.756 --> 0:48:03.716
<v Speaker 2>Tonight's Tonight again.

0:48:07.516 --> 0:48:08.196
<v Speaker 3>That happened.

0:48:09.236 --> 0:48:11.316
<v Speaker 1>I just saw Neil six nights ago. So it was

0:48:11.356 --> 0:48:12.996
<v Speaker 1>just like, this guy does not give a fuck.

0:48:14.916 --> 0:48:16.276
<v Speaker 3>You know, I've never seen him play.

0:48:16.916 --> 0:48:20.476
<v Speaker 2>You've never seen Neil never, man, it's crazy, just for

0:48:20.476 --> 0:48:22.036
<v Speaker 2>some reason or other, just never.

0:48:22.436 --> 0:48:27.476
<v Speaker 1>It's worth it. It's just I've never seen someone so single minded,

0:48:28.116 --> 0:48:31.836
<v Speaker 1>so single minded, you know those I don't want.

0:48:31.676 --> 0:48:34.756
<v Speaker 2>To generalize too much, but I've met a few sixties musicians,

0:48:35.236 --> 0:48:38.116
<v Speaker 2>which obviously you are very very fortunate, Just just a

0:48:38.156 --> 0:48:39.276
<v Speaker 2>few a handful, and.

0:48:39.196 --> 0:48:43.916
<v Speaker 3>They, nearly to a man and woman, really care about playing.

0:48:44.396 --> 0:48:44.836
<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean.

0:48:44.876 --> 0:48:47.116
<v Speaker 2>I might sound obvious, but the most important thing is

0:48:47.236 --> 0:48:48.756
<v Speaker 2>if there's a guitar in the room, they will pick

0:48:48.836 --> 0:48:52.276
<v Speaker 2>it up and they'll play Ronnie Woods like that. Donovan's

0:48:52.356 --> 0:48:55.436
<v Speaker 2>like that, you know, Paul McCartney's really like that, you know,

0:48:55.596 --> 0:48:58.876
<v Speaker 2>like those people hats off to him, and I think

0:48:58.876 --> 0:49:02.876
<v Speaker 2>they're really Ironically, it's kind of come around where some

0:49:02.916 --> 0:49:07.876
<v Speaker 2>of those older generation musicians they go out and they

0:49:07.876 --> 0:49:10.836
<v Speaker 2>appear to do it because they're you know, whether it's

0:49:10.876 --> 0:49:11.556
<v Speaker 2>your thing or not.

0:49:11.636 --> 0:49:13.796
<v Speaker 3>But you know, the Rod Stewarts and the Who's.

0:49:13.476 --> 0:49:17.956
<v Speaker 2>And the Jaggers and Springsteen's and all of those sort

0:49:17.996 --> 0:49:20.316
<v Speaker 2>of people. Johnny Mitchell even now coming back. You know,

0:49:21.036 --> 0:49:24.156
<v Speaker 2>it's nice to see that those people who could be

0:49:24.276 --> 0:49:26.476
<v Speaker 2>just sat on their boats or sat under the palm

0:49:26.516 --> 0:49:29.516
<v Speaker 2>trees or spending all the time with their architects and

0:49:29.556 --> 0:49:31.596
<v Speaker 2>all of that, they appear to be out there doing

0:49:31.636 --> 0:49:34.076
<v Speaker 2>it because maybe they know something that we don't, which is,

0:49:34.356 --> 0:49:37.676
<v Speaker 2>you know, what they're really isn't anything better. Yeah, I've

0:49:38.316 --> 0:49:41.716
<v Speaker 2>realized how super fortunate I am that I have people's ears.

0:49:41.996 --> 0:49:44.316
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's an audience as people who are like

0:49:44.396 --> 0:49:47.636
<v Speaker 2>interested in what I'm up to at the moment. That's

0:49:47.676 --> 0:49:50.756
<v Speaker 2>such a motivations, you know. But I do like to

0:49:50.796 --> 0:49:53.836
<v Speaker 2>think that might be bullshit. But it's easy for me

0:49:53.876 --> 0:49:56.356
<v Speaker 2>to say but that if I didn't, I'd still be

0:49:57.196 --> 0:50:00.876
<v Speaker 2>playing every day, practicing yeah, you know, just for the

0:50:00.916 --> 0:50:02.796
<v Speaker 2>love of it, and just to try and get better,

0:50:02.876 --> 0:50:04.756
<v Speaker 2>try and get better and better in some ways, you know,

0:50:04.796 --> 0:50:06.236
<v Speaker 2>if that's all you've got to do all day, you

0:50:06.236 --> 0:50:09.836
<v Speaker 2>get pretty good. But it's horses of course, is you know.

0:50:09.916 --> 0:50:13.036
<v Speaker 2>I like what bands are. I like what indie rock

0:50:13.716 --> 0:50:15.716
<v Speaker 2>for one. I don't like pump myself in a box

0:50:15.716 --> 0:50:19.196
<v Speaker 2>too much, but I like the area of music that

0:50:19.276 --> 0:50:22.116
<v Speaker 2>I work in. I still feel like that there are

0:50:22.156 --> 0:50:26.396
<v Speaker 2>surprises in that area of music. Obviously, you and I

0:50:26.436 --> 0:50:28.636
<v Speaker 2>we can talk about go off on these different tangents,

0:50:28.636 --> 0:50:31.556
<v Speaker 2>talk about all kinds of different music, you know. But

0:50:31.916 --> 0:50:35.276
<v Speaker 2>my mission, I think it almost kind of got doubled

0:50:35.316 --> 0:50:35.796
<v Speaker 2>in a way.

0:50:36.236 --> 0:50:37.956
<v Speaker 3>When I got the solo band together.

0:50:38.476 --> 0:50:41.196
<v Speaker 2>I felt like I had this freedom to pull in

0:50:41.276 --> 0:50:46.316
<v Speaker 2>all my influences that really goes back to people like Sparks.

0:50:47.196 --> 0:50:49.756
<v Speaker 2>It's an interesting thing, I think, because what you love

0:50:50.036 --> 0:50:54.076
<v Speaker 2>is such a subjective thing, obviously, and I think you

0:50:54.116 --> 0:50:56.036
<v Speaker 2>get to a point in your life where you kind

0:50:56.036 --> 0:51:01.516
<v Speaker 2>of go back to as an influence. You really do

0:51:01.756 --> 0:51:05.676
<v Speaker 2>draw on those things that were your first loves. I

0:51:05.716 --> 0:51:08.996
<v Speaker 2>love being in the modern world. I'm not partiking nostalgic person,

0:51:09.476 --> 0:51:13.036
<v Speaker 2>but the area of music that I'm working in, guitar music,

0:51:13.116 --> 0:51:16.436
<v Speaker 2>I guess melodic that I suppose, you know, I don't

0:51:16.436 --> 0:51:18.876
<v Speaker 2>really use terms like art rock, but you know, I'm

0:51:18.876 --> 0:51:21.076
<v Speaker 2>fine with being called an indie musician. It all sounds

0:51:21.116 --> 0:51:22.916
<v Speaker 2>like to me. It's all what used to be called

0:51:22.996 --> 0:51:25.356
<v Speaker 2>rock music. Anyway, for the longest time. I used to

0:51:25.396 --> 0:51:27.836
<v Speaker 2>call myself a pop musician for the longer time, and

0:51:27.916 --> 0:51:31.636
<v Speaker 2>still until I started really recognizing that pop music is

0:51:31.676 --> 0:51:35.116
<v Speaker 2>something very very different now, and I think that's post

0:51:35.236 --> 0:51:37.716
<v Speaker 2>rave and to do with the technology and all this

0:51:37.756 --> 0:51:40.476
<v Speaker 2>sort of stuff. I'm not gonna make past judgment on it.

0:51:40.836 --> 0:51:43.916
<v Speaker 2>But when I started out at eleven or twelve and

0:51:44.516 --> 0:51:50.756
<v Speaker 2>studying these records t Rex, the Sweet Sparks that luckily

0:51:50.796 --> 0:51:55.596
<v Speaker 2>for me, had amazing guitar playing on it. Who knows

0:51:55.636 --> 0:51:58.156
<v Speaker 2>what in England we call glam rock. In America, glam

0:51:58.236 --> 0:52:00.036
<v Speaker 2>rock was a different thing. Was a little bit to

0:52:00.596 --> 0:52:02.516
<v Speaker 2>do with sunset and the hair bands and all that.

0:52:02.756 --> 0:52:03.956
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah.

0:52:03.996 --> 0:52:06.796
<v Speaker 2>But in England glam rock was very definitely nineteen seventy two,

0:52:06.916 --> 0:52:09.916
<v Speaker 2>seventy three, seventy four, Davy Bowie, you know, the gene

0:52:09.916 --> 0:52:11.716
<v Speaker 2>Genie and all that stuff, which you know, you know,

0:52:12.676 --> 0:52:18.156
<v Speaker 2>those forty fives were amazing education for me. And as

0:52:18.156 --> 0:52:21.556
<v Speaker 2>I say, it's probably subjective because that was when this

0:52:21.636 --> 0:52:25.276
<v Speaker 2>stuff really really hit me. But I still think that

0:52:25.356 --> 0:52:30.396
<v Speaker 2>what I do is working within that area where it's

0:52:30.396 --> 0:52:33.276
<v Speaker 2>for me. The best thing is that it's concise. It

0:52:33.316 --> 0:52:35.156
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to go on for seven or eight minutes

0:52:35.876 --> 0:52:39.516
<v Speaker 2>unless I'm making a point, and there's guitar hooks in it,

0:52:40.116 --> 0:52:43.356
<v Speaker 2>and the tempos are up, and yeah, it makes you, It

0:52:43.716 --> 0:52:46.756
<v Speaker 2>gets a blood racing a little bit with some quite

0:52:47.236 --> 0:52:50.716
<v Speaker 2>sort of interesting, clever, if possible lyrics that fit.

0:52:51.076 --> 0:52:54.396
<v Speaker 1>That's the part musician in you. That that's where that

0:52:54.556 --> 0:52:58.076
<v Speaker 1>is located. And that's what probably i'd imagine, like probably

0:52:58.076 --> 0:52:59.956
<v Speaker 1>how you fell in love with Chic in the seventies.

0:53:00.156 --> 0:53:02.996
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Well I think with sik it was to

0:53:03.036 --> 0:53:06.276
<v Speaker 2>do with the harmonic progressions a lot. I always say this,

0:53:06.316 --> 0:53:08.716
<v Speaker 2>but with so much is made with now Rogers, everyone

0:53:08.756 --> 0:53:11.756
<v Speaker 2>obviously thinks, even if they're not musicians, what they're thinking

0:53:11.756 --> 0:53:13.036
<v Speaker 2>of is his right hand.

0:53:15.196 --> 0:53:16.276
<v Speaker 3>Well, what I'm really.

0:53:15.996 --> 0:53:18.876
<v Speaker 2>Fell in love with was his left hand. These beautiful

0:53:19.236 --> 0:53:21.956
<v Speaker 2>McCoy tyner. The first time I ever met now Rogers,

0:53:21.996 --> 0:53:24.516
<v Speaker 2>first question asked was do you really like McCoy tyner

0:53:25.516 --> 0:53:31.756
<v Speaker 2>because the core progression's so beautiful, so pretty, so emotional,

0:53:32.076 --> 0:53:34.916
<v Speaker 2>you know, I want your love and lost in music

0:53:35.076 --> 0:53:38.836
<v Speaker 2>and oh man, So that's why I like that stuff particularly.

0:53:38.876 --> 0:53:41.996
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't just a groove, it was those beautiful harmonic changes.

0:53:42.676 --> 0:53:46.236
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I'm a real melody freak, and I'll try

0:53:46.236 --> 0:53:50.116
<v Speaker 2>and squeeze those hooks in too, excite in kind of

0:53:50.676 --> 0:53:55.036
<v Speaker 2>punchy guitar music wherever I can, especially if it's my

0:53:55.036 --> 0:53:55.556
<v Speaker 2>own stuff.

0:53:56.716 --> 0:53:58.636
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take another quick break and then come

0:53:58.676 --> 0:54:01.756
<v Speaker 1>back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

0:54:05.956 --> 0:54:09.356
<v Speaker 1>We're back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

0:54:10.156 --> 0:54:13.116
<v Speaker 1>Where did the riff for Spirit, Power and Soul? Can

0:54:13.156 --> 0:54:14.796
<v Speaker 1>you figure out how you arrived at that riff?

0:54:15.036 --> 0:54:15.596
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:54:15.636 --> 0:54:19.596
<v Speaker 2>What I did was months before, when I was on

0:54:20.076 --> 0:54:23.156
<v Speaker 2>the road. We had this third album called called The Comet.

0:54:23.796 --> 0:54:27.116
<v Speaker 2>I started to think, the next single off the next

0:54:27.156 --> 0:54:29.916
<v Speaker 2>album should be like an electro banger. I kind of

0:54:30.116 --> 0:54:33.956
<v Speaker 2>did conceptualize it hand on heart. Now, Hey, I wish

0:54:33.996 --> 0:54:36.276
<v Speaker 2>I could do that with every track, but the smith's

0:54:36.356 --> 0:54:38.836
<v Speaker 2>used to do that. Sometimes we'd go because I was

0:54:39.356 --> 0:54:44.676
<v Speaker 2>given a title, often not always, but sometimes say sometimes.

0:54:44.996 --> 0:54:49.196
<v Speaker 2>I was given a title like Panic, and I was like, oh,

0:54:49.876 --> 0:54:53.036
<v Speaker 2>what does that conjure up? Or meet his murder? And

0:54:53.116 --> 0:54:55.956
<v Speaker 2>we meet his murder. I set myself the task of

0:54:55.996 --> 0:54:59.156
<v Speaker 2>writing a horror score for animals because.

0:54:58.916 --> 0:54:59.676
<v Speaker 3>I had the title.

0:55:00.356 --> 0:55:03.036
<v Speaker 2>So I quite enjoy hey listen as I say. I

0:55:03.036 --> 0:55:04.756
<v Speaker 2>wish I could do it more often. But I had

0:55:04.796 --> 0:55:07.076
<v Speaker 2>the idea for Spirit, Power and Soul months before, and

0:55:07.116 --> 0:55:12.116
<v Speaker 2>I went, oh, man, this band the next album, the

0:55:12.196 --> 0:55:13.996
<v Speaker 2>first track on it would be really good if I

0:55:13.996 --> 0:55:16.996
<v Speaker 2>can write an electro banger. So I started with a

0:55:17.036 --> 0:55:19.636
<v Speaker 2>drum machine. I borrowed the drum machine off Steve Morris

0:55:19.636 --> 0:55:22.196
<v Speaker 2>from New Order, which actually I've got to give it

0:55:22.276 --> 0:55:26.716
<v Speaker 2>him back. And yeah, I thought, if I'm going to borrow,

0:55:27.036 --> 0:55:29.956
<v Speaker 2>if I'm gonna borrow a drum machine, who better to

0:55:29.996 --> 0:55:33.796
<v Speaker 2>borrow one off than Steve Great. So I got in

0:55:33.876 --> 0:55:35.756
<v Speaker 2>a programming, even though I could have done it much

0:55:35.796 --> 0:55:37.956
<v Speaker 2>quicker on the laptop, but that wasn't the point. I

0:55:37.996 --> 0:55:40.556
<v Speaker 2>wanted to do the process, and I was kind of going,

0:55:40.556 --> 0:55:42.356
<v Speaker 2>all right, we'll do something that's.

0:55:42.636 --> 0:55:43.596
<v Speaker 3>Like Cabaret vaultare.

0:55:43.916 --> 0:55:49.276
<v Speaker 2>So I had the beat anyway, I was playing along

0:55:49.316 --> 0:55:51.516
<v Speaker 2>with that for like four days, and I wrote this

0:55:51.556 --> 0:55:53.716
<v Speaker 2>song that wasn't very good, and then I had to

0:55:53.756 --> 0:55:55.836
<v Speaker 2>just kind of scrap it and apply myself again. And

0:55:55.876 --> 0:55:58.836
<v Speaker 2>I just wrote it and wrote it and wrote it

0:55:58.916 --> 0:56:02.156
<v Speaker 2>and wrote it. I went in the studio from ten

0:56:02.276 --> 0:56:06.156
<v Speaker 2>so five or six for five days and I would

0:56:06.196 --> 0:56:08.916
<v Speaker 2>sing melody and melody and this is too clever.

0:56:08.956 --> 0:56:09.956
<v Speaker 3>This, it's to melodic.

0:56:10.036 --> 0:56:13.076
<v Speaker 2>This is I just knew what I wanted, but I

0:56:13.396 --> 0:56:15.516
<v Speaker 2>knew what it would be when I found it. Hey,

0:56:15.796 --> 0:56:18.036
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking a little bit like I've written a day

0:56:18.076 --> 0:56:20.036
<v Speaker 2>in the life. I know it's but that's what I

0:56:20.036 --> 0:56:20.436
<v Speaker 2>had to do.

0:56:20.476 --> 0:56:22.996
<v Speaker 1>It's a great song, man, it's a great.

0:56:22.756 --> 0:56:23.716
<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much. Well.

0:56:23.716 --> 0:56:26.316
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate that because I worked my ass off doing it.

0:56:26.876 --> 0:56:29.796
<v Speaker 2>I just kept writing these vocal melodies that were too melodic,

0:56:30.636 --> 0:56:34.316
<v Speaker 2>so it became a real craft. The interesting thing about

0:56:34.356 --> 0:56:38.116
<v Speaker 2>that song is that sometimes I have ideas, and I've

0:56:38.316 --> 0:56:41.516
<v Speaker 2>had these ideas from being a kid, where I have

0:56:41.596 --> 0:56:44.236
<v Speaker 2>an idea for what would be a good song away

0:56:44.236 --> 0:56:47.356
<v Speaker 2>from the guitar and away from the studio, and I

0:56:47.396 --> 0:56:50.196
<v Speaker 2>have it in my mind, and then I set about

0:56:50.236 --> 0:56:53.796
<v Speaker 2>trying to do it, and when it works out, it's fantastic.

0:56:54.156 --> 0:56:56.676
<v Speaker 1>It's a wild way to come to a song, like

0:56:56.756 --> 0:56:59.396
<v Speaker 1>you're not even in the realm of music, you're away

0:56:59.396 --> 0:57:02.116
<v Speaker 1>from it. Do you think that would be the worst

0:57:02.116 --> 0:57:04.636
<v Speaker 1>song potentially that it's like this thing where you're like

0:57:04.716 --> 0:57:07.556
<v Speaker 1>conceptualizing it before you even have the chance to you know.

0:57:07.796 --> 0:57:10.356
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I'm really glad it worked out. But I

0:57:10.396 --> 0:57:14.516
<v Speaker 2>was determined. And to be fair, I think when you're

0:57:14.516 --> 0:57:18.236
<v Speaker 2>talking about skills, say, one of the skills that I've

0:57:18.316 --> 0:57:21.516
<v Speaker 2>learned that I didn't have years ago was I learned

0:57:21.836 --> 0:57:26.396
<v Speaker 2>this perseverance from Bernard Sumner from New Order. Working with

0:57:26.436 --> 0:57:29.956
<v Speaker 2>Bernard for nine years in Electronic If he had an

0:57:29.996 --> 0:57:33.436
<v Speaker 2>idea for a song and he believed in it, he

0:57:33.476 --> 0:57:36.236
<v Speaker 2>would not let that thing go away. He would keep

0:57:36.236 --> 0:57:39.676
<v Speaker 2>coming back to it until he was right. So that

0:57:39.796 --> 0:57:41.836
<v Speaker 2>was a skill that I've learned along the way from

0:57:41.876 --> 0:57:44.636
<v Speaker 2>somebody else. It was it wasn't to do with, you know,

0:57:44.756 --> 0:57:48.796
<v Speaker 2>diatonic scales, what to do with, you know, music theory.

0:57:48.996 --> 0:57:52.676
<v Speaker 2>Was to do with application process, and I've learned on

0:57:52.716 --> 0:57:56.836
<v Speaker 2>that subject. It's been I could go through all the

0:57:56.836 --> 0:57:59.276
<v Speaker 2>people I've worked with and tell you what I've learned

0:57:59.276 --> 0:58:03.156
<v Speaker 2>from him. Now I think about it, I might be

0:58:03.156 --> 0:58:06.396
<v Speaker 2>getting a little bit sentimental in my old age, but

0:58:07.076 --> 0:58:12.796
<v Speaker 2>Isaac Brock, Pritty High and everyone, everyone, really I learned

0:58:12.836 --> 0:58:14.876
<v Speaker 2>something from all of them.

0:58:15.156 --> 0:58:16.796
<v Speaker 1>You know what about from Chrissy.

0:58:17.516 --> 0:58:19.076
<v Speaker 3>Chrissy ay listen?

0:58:19.156 --> 0:58:21.036
<v Speaker 2>I played with the last week at Glastonbury, you know,

0:58:21.276 --> 0:58:25.156
<v Speaker 2>and that was amazing rejoining playing those songs after thirty years,

0:58:25.236 --> 0:58:28.556
<v Speaker 2>you know, because I haven't played them since nineteen eighty whatever.

0:58:29.396 --> 0:58:33.316
<v Speaker 2>So Chrissy, well, I learned that there's a lot when

0:58:33.356 --> 0:58:35.916
<v Speaker 2>you walk on stage, even though I don't want to

0:58:35.956 --> 0:58:39.116
<v Speaker 2>embarrass it. She mightn't even realize this, but when you

0:58:39.196 --> 0:58:41.756
<v Speaker 2>walk on stage as the front man, you give off

0:58:41.796 --> 0:58:43.196
<v Speaker 2>the vibe to the rest of.

0:58:43.156 --> 0:58:46.596
<v Speaker 3>The band that no matter what happens, you've got this.

0:58:48.076 --> 0:58:50.036
<v Speaker 2>And I picked up because I was very young when

0:58:50.076 --> 0:58:51.916
<v Speaker 2>I was working with Christy was twenty four and we

0:58:51.916 --> 0:58:54.516
<v Speaker 2>were doing these we were playing sometimes we played to

0:58:54.556 --> 0:58:57.636
<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand people opening for you too, and certainly

0:58:57.716 --> 0:59:00.676
<v Speaker 2>seventy thousand people most nights on the Joshua Tree tour.

0:59:00.916 --> 0:59:02.916
<v Speaker 3>And I'm telling you, I was terrified.

0:59:03.396 --> 0:59:05.756
<v Speaker 2>But when I walked behind her on stage, I was like,

0:59:06.516 --> 0:59:07.636
<v Speaker 2>It's cool, she's got this.

0:59:09.156 --> 0:59:10.956
<v Speaker 3>I try and be that for my band.

0:59:11.396 --> 0:59:14.116
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also you know things like in rehearsal when

0:59:14.116 --> 0:59:17.036
<v Speaker 2>you wear that one, two, three four, when you start singing,

0:59:17.196 --> 0:59:19.836
<v Speaker 2>you sing like you're on stage. None of this like

0:59:19.876 --> 0:59:21.916
<v Speaker 2>looking at your phone or looking up at the roof

0:59:22.036 --> 0:59:24.956
<v Speaker 2>and or you know, being distracted when for those four

0:59:24.996 --> 0:59:26.436
<v Speaker 2>minutes that you're singing.

0:59:26.516 --> 0:59:30.316
<v Speaker 3>You really are in it. Yeah. I learned a lot

0:59:30.316 --> 0:59:30.836
<v Speaker 3>from Christy.

0:59:30.916 --> 0:59:34.156
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's quite dedicated as a in her as her

0:59:34.236 --> 0:59:35.796
<v Speaker 1>role as front person.

0:59:35.756 --> 0:59:38.716
<v Speaker 2>In a natural way, in a natural way because a

0:59:38.756 --> 0:59:40.436
<v Speaker 2>big part of her as well is that she's a

0:59:40.436 --> 0:59:44.036
<v Speaker 2>punk rocker and she's not too referential the business of

0:59:44.076 --> 0:59:47.796
<v Speaker 2>being in a band. She honors that she thinks being

0:59:47.836 --> 0:59:50.436
<v Speaker 2>in a band is a special thing, and especially her

0:59:50.436 --> 0:59:53.036
<v Speaker 2>relationship with a guitar player that goes right back to

0:59:53.156 --> 0:59:54.996
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Scott, who I was a big fan of when

0:59:54.996 --> 0:59:57.036
<v Speaker 2>I was a kid, which you can really hear in

0:59:57.116 --> 0:59:57.756
<v Speaker 2>my plane, you know.

0:59:58.316 --> 1:00:01.196
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, speaking of like, you know, you're sort of thinking

1:00:01.196 --> 1:00:04.396
<v Speaker 1>of yourself as a pop musician in a weird way.

1:00:04.436 --> 1:00:07.396
<v Speaker 1>On paper could look like a strange pairing, but I

1:00:07.396 --> 1:00:10.236
<v Speaker 1>think having spoken to you now, it seems to make

1:00:10.276 --> 1:00:13.316
<v Speaker 1>a ton of sense. You and Hans Zimmer and Pharrell

1:00:14.236 --> 1:00:16.676
<v Speaker 1>getting together, yeah, about a decade ago to work on

1:00:16.716 --> 1:00:18.076
<v Speaker 1>some of that Spider Man stuff.

1:00:18.476 --> 1:00:18.676
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:00:18.996 --> 1:00:22.036
<v Speaker 2>You know. Well, I've got to say this is classic

1:00:22.076 --> 1:00:25.916
<v Speaker 2>hands because Hans is a real lateral thinker. He really

1:00:25.956 --> 1:00:30.236
<v Speaker 2>thinks outside of the box. And he genuinely told me

1:00:30.276 --> 1:00:33.396
<v Speaker 2>this so many times now that I really think it's true.

1:00:33.916 --> 1:00:36.076
<v Speaker 2>So when me and Pharrell first got in a room

1:00:36.116 --> 1:00:38.276
<v Speaker 2>together and we wrote two songs on that that thing,

1:00:38.516 --> 1:00:41.916
<v Speaker 2>just me and him, Hans loved telling this story that

1:00:41.996 --> 1:00:45.156
<v Speaker 2>he was watching the guy who wrote literally, watching the

1:00:45.196 --> 1:00:48.156
<v Speaker 2>guy who wrote Heaven Knows I'm Miserable now writing a

1:00:48.196 --> 1:00:49.836
<v Speaker 2>song with the guy who wrote Happy.

1:00:50.036 --> 1:00:51.796
<v Speaker 3>He thought that was hilarious.

1:00:52.396 --> 1:00:57.236
<v Speaker 2>And so we got offered that movie, The Amazing Spider

1:00:57.316 --> 1:01:00.236
<v Speaker 2>Man three, and he and I got together and he

1:01:00.356 --> 1:01:02.676
<v Speaker 2>was like, well, what comes to mind what you're thinking.

1:01:02.796 --> 1:01:05.676
<v Speaker 2>I don't really know the franchise very much, but I

1:01:05.716 --> 1:01:06.476
<v Speaker 2>had this idea.

1:01:06.516 --> 1:01:09.516
<v Speaker 3>I saw the opening scene, so a real rough it.

1:01:09.676 --> 1:01:11.756
<v Speaker 2>And it was New York and it was like, there's

1:01:11.876 --> 1:01:14.516
<v Speaker 2>a lot of action and everything, and I said, you

1:01:14.596 --> 1:01:16.476
<v Speaker 2>know what it should it should be like the Who.

1:01:16.916 --> 1:01:18.676
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't thinking classic rock, but I was just thinking

1:01:18.716 --> 1:01:20.196
<v Speaker 2>it should be like won't get fooled again.

1:01:20.236 --> 1:01:21.756
<v Speaker 3>It should be like, if you're asking me as a.

1:01:21.756 --> 1:01:25.516
<v Speaker 2>Guitar player power chords, it's whoa this big kind of

1:01:25.556 --> 1:01:28.676
<v Speaker 2>explosive thing. I never think in terms of metal. It's

1:01:28.716 --> 1:01:31.796
<v Speaker 2>just not my bag. But yeah, if I think explosive,

1:01:31.876 --> 1:01:34.876
<v Speaker 2>I think of like the Who or whatever. And he

1:01:34.956 --> 1:01:37.436
<v Speaker 2>really liked that idea, and then from that he jumped

1:01:37.436 --> 1:01:40.196
<v Speaker 2>then to like having a band in a room so

1:01:40.316 --> 1:01:44.356
<v Speaker 2>straight away because Junkie Excel was he had a studio

1:01:44.756 --> 1:01:46.916
<v Speaker 2>in the same building that we were in, and he

1:01:46.996 --> 1:01:49.716
<v Speaker 2>was brilliant like, well listen, we'll get junky Excel on bass.

1:01:50.156 --> 1:01:53.556
<v Speaker 3>And then we had this idea about this explosive pop book.

1:01:54.036 --> 1:01:58.276
<v Speaker 2>Hands then was like, who's the most melodic thinking that

1:01:58.316 --> 1:02:00.916
<v Speaker 2>you can think of? Who's like, who's amazing act coming

1:02:00.956 --> 1:02:03.556
<v Speaker 2>up with melodies? And he just let's just ask for real,

1:02:03.996 --> 1:02:07.276
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, well, I was like, well, this

1:02:07.276 --> 1:02:11.636
<v Speaker 2>would be interesting. I mean, I'm not I'm sure I'm

1:02:11.676 --> 1:02:14.716
<v Speaker 2>not the first person to say this at all. But

1:02:15.236 --> 1:02:18.476
<v Speaker 2>when for All comes in the room, he's like, where's

1:02:18.516 --> 1:02:20.076
<v Speaker 2>the tune? Let me write a tune.

1:02:20.276 --> 1:02:21.476
<v Speaker 3>He's amazing.

1:02:21.756 --> 1:02:24.076
<v Speaker 2>We were putting the song down. I don't I'm sure

1:02:24.076 --> 1:02:26.476
<v Speaker 2>he won't mind me telling this story. I've been for

1:02:26.476 --> 1:02:29.076
<v Speaker 2>a run in the morning and I had this idea

1:02:29.396 --> 1:02:32.396
<v Speaker 2>that we needed a romantic song. We need like the

1:02:32.436 --> 1:02:34.396
<v Speaker 2>love the love song in this And I just happened

1:02:34.396 --> 1:02:36.676
<v Speaker 2>to be out running in the morning and I heard

1:02:36.716 --> 1:02:38.516
<v Speaker 2>that this this tune in my head. I was like, oh,

1:02:38.596 --> 1:02:40.796
<v Speaker 2>that would be good, so I'll get I was enthusiastic

1:02:40.836 --> 1:02:43.156
<v Speaker 2>to get in the studio and put this tune down.

1:02:44.316 --> 1:02:45.556
<v Speaker 3>So I got in the studio.

1:02:45.276 --> 1:02:48.076
<v Speaker 2>Kind of early, and we're in this big room and

1:02:48.116 --> 1:02:50.556
<v Speaker 2>I started laying this down and there's some of the musicians,

1:02:50.596 --> 1:02:53.596
<v Speaker 2>a couple of string players piano, and Hans was playing piano,

1:02:54.556 --> 1:02:57.476
<v Speaker 2>and fell wasn't there. And we started putting this running

1:02:57.476 --> 1:02:59.196
<v Speaker 2>the chords down and I've got this tune and we're

1:02:59.236 --> 1:03:01.596
<v Speaker 2>putting it down and we're recording it. And about the

1:03:01.636 --> 1:03:04.796
<v Speaker 2>second time I get through this tune for our walks

1:03:04.796 --> 1:03:07.836
<v Speaker 2>in and uh. We're halfway through the tune and he's

1:03:07.876 --> 1:03:09.836
<v Speaker 2>kind of trying to be quiet and make a noise

1:03:09.916 --> 1:03:12.716
<v Speaker 2>and he's got he picks the microphone up and when

1:03:12.796 --> 1:03:15.356
<v Speaker 2>we finished doing this quick run through, we've got to

1:03:15.356 --> 1:03:18.356
<v Speaker 2>start a third one for some technical reason, and he's

1:03:18.436 --> 1:03:21.756
<v Speaker 2>asking Steve Lipson to stop the track. I want to sing,

1:03:22.396 --> 1:03:24.396
<v Speaker 2>and Hans goes, can we just put the track down?

1:03:24.436 --> 1:03:25.116
<v Speaker 3>He goes, I want to.

1:03:25.396 --> 1:03:28.756
<v Speaker 2>Now, My point in telling this story is that most

1:03:28.836 --> 1:03:32.196
<v Speaker 2>musicians know that is the opposite of what happens. What

1:03:32.436 --> 1:03:35.276
<v Speaker 2>usually happens is you have a tune and you put

1:03:35.276 --> 1:03:38.036
<v Speaker 2>the tune down and you have to wait for days

1:03:38.596 --> 1:03:42.476
<v Speaker 2>for the singer to sing. For I was like, plug

1:03:42.556 --> 1:03:46.396
<v Speaker 2>this in, plug this in, let me sing. It was brilliant,

1:03:46.556 --> 1:03:49.756
<v Speaker 2>and he's in the control room. He's tapping on his

1:03:49.796 --> 1:03:52.236
<v Speaker 2>phone all the time, tapping on his phone writing lyrics.

1:03:52.876 --> 1:03:57.236
<v Speaker 2>So my experience with with with for Alpha on that

1:03:57.316 --> 1:04:01.996
<v Speaker 2>movie was he was He's exactly what I thought.

1:04:02.036 --> 1:04:05.716
<v Speaker 3>He was. Just music just oozes out the guy. I

1:04:05.756 --> 1:04:07.636
<v Speaker 3>love it. Yeah, So that was this funny thing.

1:04:07.836 --> 1:04:10.636
<v Speaker 2>But when when I've been asked a couple of times

1:04:10.876 --> 1:04:15.596
<v Speaker 2>about collaboration, right, I use that that example of writing

1:04:15.596 --> 1:04:18.956
<v Speaker 2>with Pharrell as an illustration as to what happens in

1:04:18.996 --> 1:04:23.116
<v Speaker 2>the collaborative process, because on the face of it, what

1:04:23.236 --> 1:04:25.996
<v Speaker 2>I say is it's like when you've got two musicians

1:04:25.996 --> 1:04:28.996
<v Speaker 2>working together. On the face of it, look, I'm an

1:04:28.996 --> 1:04:32.796
<v Speaker 2>indie rock musician from Manchester in the eighties and then

1:04:32.996 --> 1:04:36.716
<v Speaker 2>Pharrell is a R and B, you know, hip hop

1:04:37.356 --> 1:04:41.316
<v Speaker 2>pop musician from America. But I always say it's a

1:04:41.316 --> 1:04:44.316
<v Speaker 2>bit like you're getting a rowbot and the two ears

1:04:44.796 --> 1:04:47.956
<v Speaker 2>are rowing in the same direction, and the horizon is

1:04:47.996 --> 1:04:52.156
<v Speaker 2>the speakers. I think the point is is that music

1:04:52.316 --> 1:04:55.076
<v Speaker 2>and collaboration and when you're trying to create something with someone,

1:04:55.116 --> 1:04:57.836
<v Speaker 2>even if you don't know them very well, it transcends

1:04:58.236 --> 1:05:04.276
<v Speaker 2>your being from different backgrounds, completely transcends it. Yeah, music's

1:05:04.316 --> 1:05:06.556
<v Speaker 2>amazing for that, and collaboration is amazing.

1:05:06.756 --> 1:05:09.356
<v Speaker 3>You're both trying to just come up with a really

1:05:09.356 --> 1:05:09.996
<v Speaker 3>good middle eight.

1:05:10.916 --> 1:05:14.116
<v Speaker 2>And because of that, because people on the outside will go, oh, yeah,

1:05:14.156 --> 1:05:16.636
<v Speaker 2>you have to check your egos at the door or well,

1:05:16.676 --> 1:05:20.676
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's a given because people who are serious,

1:05:21.276 --> 1:05:23.556
<v Speaker 2>they just want to make something great and it's not

1:05:23.596 --> 1:05:27.276
<v Speaker 2>even a question of egos, you know.

1:05:27.356 --> 1:05:29.036
<v Speaker 3>I mean the people I've worked with, the.

1:05:29.036 --> 1:05:31.756
<v Speaker 2>Greats, you know they I'm sure they have an ego

1:05:31.796 --> 1:05:34.276
<v Speaker 2>when they're getting out on stage, but when it comes

1:05:34.316 --> 1:05:36.836
<v Speaker 2>down to work, they know, you know, you've got to

1:05:36.876 --> 1:05:39.916
<v Speaker 2>put the hours in. Billie Eilish is like that, Atlicia

1:05:40.036 --> 1:05:43.756
<v Speaker 2>Keys is like that, just real hard working, rolling the

1:05:43.796 --> 1:05:46.396
<v Speaker 2>sleeves up and putting the hours in, you know.

1:05:46.476 --> 1:05:49.396
<v Speaker 1>A talking about greats who put in the work. What

1:05:49.516 --> 1:05:53.116
<v Speaker 1>was it like observing or being a part of the

1:05:53.876 --> 1:05:57.956
<v Speaker 1>Joshua Tree tour like seeing YouTube in that moment as

1:05:57.996 --> 1:05:58.676
<v Speaker 1>a close.

1:05:58.436 --> 1:06:03.476
<v Speaker 2>If you were well, the amazing thing was I told

1:06:03.596 --> 1:06:07.516
<v Speaker 2>Edge this actually that so when I joined that tour,

1:06:07.556 --> 1:06:09.476
<v Speaker 2>because the pretender's been doing it for a while, and

1:06:09.516 --> 1:06:12.236
<v Speaker 2>then the guitar player quit and then I joined on there.

1:06:13.276 --> 1:06:16.676
<v Speaker 2>At that point, Bono was doing this thing where he's

1:06:16.716 --> 1:06:19.756
<v Speaker 2>in front of whatever, seventy eighty thousand people and they've

1:06:19.796 --> 1:06:23.956
<v Speaker 2>got this material that is just really sounding good in

1:06:24.116 --> 1:06:27.596
<v Speaker 2>those stadiums. And don't forget that it was new music

1:06:27.636 --> 1:06:30.596
<v Speaker 2>then where the Streets have No Name and I still

1:06:30.596 --> 1:06:32.956
<v Speaker 2>haven't found what I'm looking for. They were new songs

1:06:33.036 --> 1:06:35.516
<v Speaker 2>that people were just hearing on the radio right, So

1:06:35.556 --> 1:06:38.756
<v Speaker 2>it was like, WHOA, this is a pretty good place

1:06:38.756 --> 1:06:38.956
<v Speaker 2>to be.

1:06:38.996 --> 1:06:41.156
<v Speaker 3>I was stood out the side of the stage going wow,

1:06:41.236 --> 1:06:43.796
<v Speaker 3>when you hear that, When you hear where.

1:06:43.636 --> 1:06:45.196
<v Speaker 2>The Streets have no Name, which I think they used

1:06:45.196 --> 1:06:48.236
<v Speaker 2>to start with, you go what, I think this song's

1:06:48.236 --> 1:06:50.916
<v Speaker 2>going to stick around for a while. And so there

1:06:50.996 --> 1:06:53.916
<v Speaker 2>was a vibe and they come on and Bonn I

1:06:54.036 --> 1:06:57.316
<v Speaker 2>was doing this thing where midway through the set or whatever,

1:06:57.516 --> 1:07:00.396
<v Speaker 2>he would climb up on the pa and then he

1:07:00.396 --> 1:07:04.196
<v Speaker 2>would climb on whatever, on some light in trust or whatever,

1:07:04.516 --> 1:07:07.236
<v Speaker 2>and he was hanging down off doing that thing, and

1:07:07.276 --> 1:07:11.556
<v Speaker 2>he'd be hanging down a fit and you know, and

1:07:11.636 --> 1:07:14.156
<v Speaker 2>Chrissy said to me, go to look at that.

1:07:14.356 --> 1:07:16.196
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's kind of laughing about it. What does

1:07:16.236 --> 1:07:17.076
<v Speaker 3>he think he's doing?

1:07:17.956 --> 1:07:20.156
<v Speaker 2>And I said to her, you know, chrisy, I saw

1:07:20.236 --> 1:07:24.116
<v Speaker 2>him do that in front of about forty people in

1:07:24.156 --> 1:07:26.916
<v Speaker 2>a little room in Manchester when they first came at

1:07:26.916 --> 1:07:28.956
<v Speaker 2>Manchester in nineteen eighty.

1:07:29.036 --> 1:07:31.156
<v Speaker 3>I want to say, me and my pals went down.

1:07:31.236 --> 1:07:33.836
<v Speaker 2>We heard about him on the John Peel Show and

1:07:34.676 --> 1:07:38.396
<v Speaker 2>I thought that's really cool because he was doing it

1:07:38.436 --> 1:07:43.036
<v Speaker 2>back then, and also I guess the music, I think

1:07:43.076 --> 1:07:44.276
<v Speaker 2>I started to see that.

1:07:44.516 --> 1:07:46.436
<v Speaker 3>Well. First off, you've got to have a real.

1:07:47.756 --> 1:07:50.596
<v Speaker 2>Got a lot of energy to be the head of

1:07:50.956 --> 1:07:54.116
<v Speaker 2>you know, that kind of organization with like you know,

1:07:54.196 --> 1:07:57.876
<v Speaker 2>fifteen trucks and such a big, big organization. You know,

1:07:57.956 --> 1:07:59.756
<v Speaker 2>that takes a lot out of you during the day,

1:07:59.836 --> 1:08:01.516
<v Speaker 2>forget even the shows.

1:08:01.596 --> 1:08:03.796
<v Speaker 3>Just being the.

1:08:03.196 --> 1:08:07.236
<v Speaker 2>Center of all of that operation, which you know, made

1:08:07.316 --> 1:08:10.556
<v Speaker 2>me realize that I'm okay with being what I am,

1:08:10.596 --> 1:08:13.916
<v Speaker 2>you know, but because you know, I don't like a

1:08:13.916 --> 1:08:15.516
<v Speaker 2>lot of fuss, So.

1:08:15.476 --> 1:08:16.556
<v Speaker 3>I really admired that.

1:08:16.836 --> 1:08:19.876
<v Speaker 2>But how masterful it was that you the tunes have

1:08:19.956 --> 1:08:22.876
<v Speaker 2>to be really if you listen to those, that kind

1:08:22.916 --> 1:08:26.276
<v Speaker 2>of music, which I guess was part of what defined

1:08:26.516 --> 1:08:27.636
<v Speaker 2>now stayed in music.

1:08:28.436 --> 1:08:32.756
<v Speaker 3>It's very simple, but it's in I.

1:08:32.676 --> 1:08:36.676
<v Speaker 2>Remember those those nights as been pretty there's a lot

1:08:36.676 --> 1:08:42.996
<v Speaker 2>of motion in that music. Simple doesn't necessarily mean like vacuous. Yeah,

1:08:43.596 --> 1:08:45.436
<v Speaker 2>I still haven't found what I'm looking for is such

1:08:45.436 --> 1:08:51.276
<v Speaker 2>as and and the Singing Man.

1:08:52.356 --> 1:08:55.076
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, that was really that. That was very very cool.

1:08:55.116 --> 1:08:57.676
<v Speaker 2>And again you know the chemistry of a band, if ever,

1:08:57.876 --> 1:09:00.476
<v Speaker 2>you know, you want to talk about chemistry, you know,

1:09:00.836 --> 1:09:06.196
<v Speaker 2>look at those guys. They're kind of really archetypal. You know,

1:09:06.236 --> 1:09:10.076
<v Speaker 2>the edges are really archetypal. He's rolling the and you know,

1:09:10.196 --> 1:09:14.116
<v Speaker 2>he's kind of arty, and he's got imagination and he

1:09:14.116 --> 1:09:17.516
<v Speaker 2>he sort of paints pictures and with his guitars that

1:09:17.756 --> 1:09:20.996
<v Speaker 2>sound and all of that, and Adam really holds it down.

1:09:21.476 --> 1:09:25.036
<v Speaker 2>And then Bono's a flamboyant on stage and off kind

1:09:25.036 --> 1:09:27.156
<v Speaker 2>of concepts guy and and Larry's the guy who kind

1:09:27.156 --> 1:09:29.756
<v Speaker 2>of really is he formed the whole thing and he's

1:09:29.796 --> 1:09:33.316
<v Speaker 2>like the engine in a way. Yeah, so it comes

1:09:33.316 --> 1:09:35.076
<v Speaker 2>back to that thing if you are what you play.

1:09:35.796 --> 1:09:38.436
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when I think about the Edge, I also start

1:09:38.476 --> 1:09:41.756
<v Speaker 1>to think about like Johnny Greenwood, Oh yeah, I mean

1:09:41.836 --> 1:09:44.276
<v Speaker 1>he seems to me like you also, where it's like

1:09:44.996 --> 1:09:47.316
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of just down to like like it doesn't

1:09:47.356 --> 1:09:50.316
<v Speaker 1>matter how complicated it sounds. It's just like what fits

1:09:50.356 --> 1:09:52.876
<v Speaker 1>this track, you know, and is adventurous.

1:09:52.876 --> 1:09:56.316
<v Speaker 2>Similarly, yeah, well, well, difference between me and Johnny though,

1:09:56.476 --> 1:09:58.316
<v Speaker 2>is that he's been able to grow with the same

1:09:58.436 --> 1:10:02.196
<v Speaker 2>musicians over a long period of time, you know what

1:10:02.236 --> 1:10:05.156
<v Speaker 2>I mean, because again, they are another band, you know,

1:10:05.276 --> 1:10:06.796
<v Speaker 2>with amazing chemistry.

1:10:07.716 --> 1:10:09.996
<v Speaker 3>You know, they've all beco who they are.

1:10:10.116 --> 1:10:11.956
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know now that you know, they got

1:10:11.956 --> 1:10:13.596
<v Speaker 2>to a place where they're all doing their own projects

1:10:13.636 --> 1:10:17.436
<v Speaker 2>and everything. But Johnny's been in a place where he's

1:10:17.476 --> 1:10:22.276
<v Speaker 2>been able to grow with Phil Selway playing behind him

1:10:22.476 --> 1:10:25.396
<v Speaker 2>and with Tom next to him. The difference with me

1:10:25.516 --> 1:10:29.516
<v Speaker 2>is that I've done that in different bands. I think

1:10:29.516 --> 1:10:31.996
<v Speaker 2>that's a big difference between me and Johnny. You know,

1:10:32.236 --> 1:10:35.316
<v Speaker 2>in a way if you like Johnny's, Johnny's family stayed

1:10:35.316 --> 1:10:38.356
<v Speaker 2>together a long time, whereas my family was a very

1:10:38.676 --> 1:10:40.716
<v Speaker 2>the family I was known for was very short lived,

1:10:41.396 --> 1:10:43.636
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the Smiths, which is fine now. It

1:10:43.636 --> 1:10:45.876
<v Speaker 2>happens with a lot more bands in than the ones

1:10:45.916 --> 1:10:47.316
<v Speaker 2>that stay together for forty years.

1:10:47.436 --> 1:10:50.276
<v Speaker 1>I think like the Beatles too, the Beatles. The Beatles

1:10:50.276 --> 1:10:52.796
<v Speaker 1>short lived, but a lot of packed a big punch

1:10:52.916 --> 1:10:55.676
<v Speaker 1>in their time. And it's smith I mean, you look

1:10:55.716 --> 1:10:58.236
<v Speaker 1>at the work you guys did in the short amount

1:10:58.236 --> 1:10:59.836
<v Speaker 1>of time. It's like, damn, it's a lot of It's

1:10:59.836 --> 1:11:00.516
<v Speaker 1>a lot of work.

1:11:00.796 --> 1:11:01.156
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:11:01.236 --> 1:11:04.996
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it felt like that, and I'm very extremely proud

1:11:04.996 --> 1:11:07.916
<v Speaker 2>of it. But I think Johnny's as well as been

1:11:07.956 --> 1:11:11.676
<v Speaker 2>supremely talented. I think he's been in a place where

1:11:11.716 --> 1:11:16.756
<v Speaker 2>he can really he occupies his place in that band

1:11:17.076 --> 1:11:21.196
<v Speaker 2>and has done for a long time now, and he's

1:11:21.316 --> 1:11:23.756
<v Speaker 2>you know that band that they've all they've all sort

1:11:23.756 --> 1:11:26.156
<v Speaker 2>of grown around each other, you know what I mean.

1:11:26.556 --> 1:11:29.236
<v Speaker 2>You pick any album like kid A or that, you know,

1:11:29.316 --> 1:11:32.156
<v Speaker 2>I'm easy at that period. I really like him Rainbows

1:11:32.196 --> 1:11:36.956
<v Speaker 2>as well, and they've all kind of evolved together. So

1:11:37.036 --> 1:11:39.756
<v Speaker 2>I think that's really that's really suited him as a musician.

1:11:39.956 --> 1:11:43.076
<v Speaker 2>I think it always suited my personality to kind of

1:11:43.676 --> 1:11:46.676
<v Speaker 2>flit around. Really, you know, it doesn't come as any

1:11:46.716 --> 1:11:49.756
<v Speaker 2>surprise to me whatsoever that I've been in loads of

1:11:49.796 --> 1:11:50.436
<v Speaker 2>different bands.

1:11:50.596 --> 1:11:52.956
<v Speaker 1>Going back to the beginning of our conversation. I love

1:11:52.996 --> 1:11:54.996
<v Speaker 1>that it's something you've done, and I wish you I

1:11:55.036 --> 1:11:57.156
<v Speaker 1>don't know. It's like, you know, if I had my brothers,

1:11:57.476 --> 1:12:00.396
<v Speaker 1>my personal taste taking into consideration to have my brothers,

1:12:00.556 --> 1:12:02.676
<v Speaker 1>I would have that happen more often. Like I love

1:12:03.076 --> 1:12:05.356
<v Speaker 1>seeing different like going back to jazz, like I love

1:12:05.636 --> 1:12:07.196
<v Speaker 1>It's like I love the fact that I can pull

1:12:07.276 --> 1:12:09.196
<v Speaker 1>up and be like, oh, I want to hear, Oh

1:12:09.236 --> 1:12:12.396
<v Speaker 1>I can hear Oscar Peterson play with with Check Baker

1:12:12.436 --> 1:12:14.596
<v Speaker 1>on this one, or I can hear I want to

1:12:14.596 --> 1:12:18.156
<v Speaker 1>hear Wayne Shorter play with you know, Jimmy Cabb instead

1:12:18.196 --> 1:12:20.276
<v Speaker 1>of what you know, right, I just want to hear

1:12:20.316 --> 1:12:23.236
<v Speaker 1>what the different combinations and formations sound like. And that's

1:12:23.276 --> 1:12:25.596
<v Speaker 1>what's cool about and why I got into making lots

1:12:25.636 --> 1:12:27.836
<v Speaker 1>playlists around news, because it's like just cool toy hear

1:12:28.156 --> 1:12:30.556
<v Speaker 1>how someone sounds in different context with different people at

1:12:30.556 --> 1:12:32.596
<v Speaker 1>different times. It's just fun.

1:12:32.436 --> 1:12:33.036
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thanks.

1:12:33.236 --> 1:12:36.036
<v Speaker 2>Well, sometimes I think what I do is more heard

1:12:36.116 --> 1:12:39.116
<v Speaker 2>in some situations than others. So in the other there

1:12:39.196 --> 1:12:41.276
<v Speaker 2>was quite a lot of space for me to do

1:12:41.356 --> 1:12:45.676
<v Speaker 2>my thing in especially on the Dusk album you can

1:12:45.716 --> 1:12:47.396
<v Speaker 2>hear you can hear me quite a lot, and then

1:12:47.676 --> 1:12:50.396
<v Speaker 2>other times, like with electronic, the guitar kind of got

1:12:50.396 --> 1:12:53.476
<v Speaker 2>squeezed out. But that was my actually down to me

1:12:54.316 --> 1:12:56.716
<v Speaker 2>because I was really kind of getting getting so in

1:12:56.836 --> 1:12:59.916
<v Speaker 2>electronic pop and I just got really enthusiastic for that,

1:12:59.996 --> 1:13:01.676
<v Speaker 2>and I guess, you know, I just sort of fell

1:13:01.676 --> 1:13:04.396
<v Speaker 2>out of love with being a rock musician during that period.

1:13:04.396 --> 1:13:06.596
<v Speaker 2>But that's okay because I was only twenty five, twenty six,

1:13:06.636 --> 1:13:07.236
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven.

1:13:07.396 --> 1:13:08.196
<v Speaker 3>It's all part of.

1:13:08.116 --> 1:13:10.996
<v Speaker 2>It and I've done that now and if you know,

1:13:11.116 --> 1:13:14.516
<v Speaker 2>but but where the guitar did feature in on electronics

1:13:14.556 --> 1:13:18.916
<v Speaker 2>records likes feel every be and get the message, it

1:13:18.996 --> 1:13:21.516
<v Speaker 2>was pretty interesting stuff. I kind of wish that I'd

1:13:21.676 --> 1:13:24.876
<v Speaker 2>done more of it, and Bernard was always, to be

1:13:24.916 --> 1:13:26.796
<v Speaker 2>fair of Bernard was always encouraging me to do more

1:13:26.796 --> 1:13:29.156
<v Speaker 2>of it, but I wanted to learn about other aspects

1:13:29.196 --> 1:13:31.196
<v Speaker 2>of record making there so it is or what it

1:13:31.276 --> 1:13:33.516
<v Speaker 2>is and you know, and on the Cribs record that

1:13:33.556 --> 1:13:33.996
<v Speaker 2>I made.

1:13:34.636 --> 1:13:36.676
<v Speaker 3>There's plenty of me on that stuff. I can hear

1:13:36.716 --> 1:13:37.196
<v Speaker 3>a lot of that.

1:13:37.436 --> 1:13:40.316
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, I really feel like as a and

1:13:40.356 --> 1:13:42.836
<v Speaker 2>I don't mean to sound glib or whatever, but I

1:13:42.916 --> 1:13:45.836
<v Speaker 2>kind of think of as a British guitar player, I've

1:13:45.876 --> 1:13:48.036
<v Speaker 2>kind of had the best job I could think of.

1:13:48.716 --> 1:13:53.276
<v Speaker 2>I mean genuinely, you know, I understand sure because Dismiss

1:13:53.276 --> 1:13:56.676
<v Speaker 2>are so revered and so loved over time and almost

1:13:56.676 --> 1:14:00.036
<v Speaker 2>you know, times made the band almost even more kind

1:14:00.036 --> 1:14:03.836
<v Speaker 2>of you know, valued or whatever the big narrative is.

1:14:04.156 --> 1:14:05.956
<v Speaker 2>People are seeing, oh the band was so short lived,

1:14:05.956 --> 1:14:07.516
<v Speaker 2>if only they could stay together.

1:14:07.236 --> 1:14:08.236
<v Speaker 3>For longer, and all of that.

1:14:08.356 --> 1:14:11.116
<v Speaker 2>But it makes sense to me that just speaking for

1:14:11.156 --> 1:14:13.996
<v Speaker 2>my own life, that I've done all of this different

1:14:14.036 --> 1:14:18.116
<v Speaker 2>stuff as a guitar player, it's entirely the person I

1:14:18.196 --> 1:14:21.396
<v Speaker 2>was when that when I was fourteen fifteen, and I

1:14:21.436 --> 1:14:23.796
<v Speaker 2>say that all the time, and it's it's a person

1:14:23.796 --> 1:14:24.236
<v Speaker 2>that I kind of.

1:14:24.236 --> 1:14:25.236
<v Speaker 3>Dreamed of being. Really.

1:14:25.236 --> 1:14:27.996
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously, you know, life throws all kinds of

1:14:27.996 --> 1:14:31.836
<v Speaker 2>curve balls without getting down you know too philosophical, nothing's

1:14:32.436 --> 1:14:35.956
<v Speaker 2>doesn't turn out like a fairy tale. But professionally, man,

1:14:36.036 --> 1:14:38.396
<v Speaker 2>I can't. Sometimes I think, Wow, I was Innder there.

1:14:38.436 --> 1:14:40.076
<v Speaker 2>They were my favorite band at the time.

1:14:40.436 --> 1:14:44.756
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, and you were with them and maybe you know,

1:14:44.876 --> 1:14:47.196
<v Speaker 1>like maybe their best record, you know, like Dusk is

1:14:47.356 --> 1:14:48.356
<v Speaker 1>like yeah, you know.

1:14:48.956 --> 1:14:51.476
<v Speaker 3>Dusk is a real good one. Yeah. It's just weird

1:14:51.476 --> 1:14:52.316
<v Speaker 3>that it all turned out.

1:14:52.316 --> 1:14:55.196
<v Speaker 2>And then, you know, I was really when when I

1:14:55.236 --> 1:14:57.356
<v Speaker 2>The short thing with Body's Mouth was that I went

1:14:57.356 --> 1:14:59.996
<v Speaker 2>through a period where the late night is were I

1:15:00.156 --> 1:15:03.276
<v Speaker 2>just wasn't really hearing that much in British guitar music

1:15:04.076 --> 1:15:06.836
<v Speaker 2>that excited me, But I was hearing it in American

1:15:06.916 --> 1:15:07.676
<v Speaker 2>guitar music.

1:15:07.876 --> 1:15:10.436
<v Speaker 3>I Built to Spill really liked. And there was a.

1:15:10.436 --> 1:15:15.076
<v Speaker 2>Band called the Lilies I really liked from out of Boston.

1:15:16.036 --> 1:15:19.556
<v Speaker 2>I thought Lilies were great. And then and Elliott Smith.

1:15:19.596 --> 1:15:21.916
<v Speaker 2>And what happened was I met Elliott.

1:15:21.716 --> 1:15:24.076
<v Speaker 3>And Elliott Smith. Oh yeah, I met Elliot a couple

1:15:24.116 --> 1:15:24.396
<v Speaker 3>of times.

1:15:24.436 --> 1:15:26.516
<v Speaker 2>In the first time I met him, I was talking

1:15:26.516 --> 1:15:29.676
<v Speaker 2>to him about these bands and he hit me up

1:15:29.676 --> 1:15:30.356
<v Speaker 2>to Modest Mouse.

1:15:30.356 --> 1:15:31.516
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know what Modest Mouse was.

1:15:31.556 --> 1:15:33.196
<v Speaker 2>It was Elliot who told me about Maddy s Mouse

1:15:33.396 --> 1:15:35.156
<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, listen, I have you had Modice Mouse.

1:15:35.516 --> 1:15:37.956
<v Speaker 2>He said something like all roads lead to Modese Mouse.

1:15:37.996 --> 1:15:40.316
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, so that's how I got into

1:15:40.756 --> 1:15:43.796
<v Speaker 2>He took me on the Moon and Antarctica, and then

1:15:44.436 --> 1:15:46.316
<v Speaker 2>six seven years later I ended up being a full

1:15:46.316 --> 1:15:48.556
<v Speaker 2>time member of the band for like longer than people think.

1:15:48.596 --> 1:15:48.836
<v Speaker 3>I thought.

1:15:48.836 --> 1:15:51.236
<v Speaker 2>I joined the band two thousand and five and I

1:15:51.316 --> 1:15:55.316
<v Speaker 2>left the band twenty ten think, and ended up moving

1:15:55.356 --> 1:15:58.196
<v Speaker 2>to Portland. So that was all down to without Elliott.

1:15:58.196 --> 1:15:59.316
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have known about that.

1:15:59.596 --> 1:16:00.636
<v Speaker 1>How did you mean Elliott?

1:16:02.236 --> 1:16:04.996
<v Speaker 2>I was in LA and mutual friend said he wanted

1:16:05.036 --> 1:16:07.436
<v Speaker 2>to meet me, and we're a couple of mutual friends,

1:16:07.556 --> 1:16:09.996
<v Speaker 2>and I think XO would just him out, and I

1:16:10.036 --> 1:16:10.916
<v Speaker 2>thought that was great.

1:16:10.956 --> 1:16:12.436
<v Speaker 3>I just thought he was really good.

1:16:13.156 --> 1:16:15.916
<v Speaker 2>And then then I knew a couple of these musicians

1:16:16.196 --> 1:16:18.436
<v Speaker 2>and he always had really nice The thing about him

1:16:18.476 --> 1:16:19.876
<v Speaker 2>was the people I knew who worked with him were

1:16:19.876 --> 1:16:22.836
<v Speaker 2>all really nice people. My friend Scott, he was his

1:16:22.916 --> 1:16:25.676
<v Speaker 2>drummer for a while, so we had kind of we

1:16:25.756 --> 1:16:26.036
<v Speaker 2>had a.

1:16:25.996 --> 1:16:27.676
<v Speaker 3>Sort of mutual sort of scene.

1:16:27.716 --> 1:16:30.276
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, but I look back on all this and

1:16:30.636 --> 1:16:32.676
<v Speaker 2>I think, Wow, I'm kind of glad.

1:16:32.756 --> 1:16:36.236
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad that things works out worked out amazingly. Before

1:16:36.276 --> 1:16:38.196
<v Speaker 1>we go, man, do you have I see your guitars

1:16:38.196 --> 1:16:39.916
<v Speaker 1>back there? Do you have your nine? You have a

1:16:40.196 --> 1:16:42.476
<v Speaker 1>you have a book coming out called Mars Guitars that

1:16:42.516 --> 1:16:45.556
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited to check out. Do you have your nine?

1:16:45.836 --> 1:16:47.516
<v Speaker 1>Pickup guitar?

1:16:48.756 --> 1:16:51.476
<v Speaker 2>No one's ever asked me about that guitar. They probably

1:16:51.476 --> 1:16:54.636
<v Speaker 2>won't again. Just it's in my actual studio because this

1:16:54.756 --> 1:16:57.996
<v Speaker 2>is this is my house now. But it's an amazing sound.

1:16:58.276 --> 1:17:00.236
<v Speaker 3>It's a guitar.

1:17:03.436 --> 1:17:08.436
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't drink anymore, but I wasn't actually

1:17:08.556 --> 1:17:10.556
<v Speaker 2>drunk when I bought it. I may head, but it

1:17:10.676 --> 1:17:13.156
<v Speaker 2>was back in the days when I was like drinking

1:17:13.236 --> 1:17:16.036
<v Speaker 2>quite a lot. I was either drunk from the night before.

1:17:16.076 --> 1:17:18.356
<v Speaker 2>But I went into a guitar shop with Nold gallagheries only.

1:17:18.356 --> 1:17:19.916
<v Speaker 2>I think it was said maybe the might be when

1:17:19.916 --> 1:17:22.716
<v Speaker 2>the very first day we met and I saw this thing,

1:17:22.756 --> 1:17:25.756
<v Speaker 2>and I just was like my logic for buying that guitar.

1:17:25.796 --> 1:17:29.756
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Okay, if Kraftwork played guitar, that's what

1:17:29.796 --> 1:17:32.316
<v Speaker 2>they would play. Nola had only just met me, and

1:17:32.356 --> 1:17:36.236
<v Speaker 2>I think he thought this guy is a crazy, crazy

1:17:36.316 --> 1:17:36.756
<v Speaker 2>rock star.

1:17:38.036 --> 1:17:39.316
<v Speaker 1>That's a fair assessment.

1:17:40.236 --> 1:17:42.356
<v Speaker 2>But you know what, maybe it was about what it

1:17:42.436 --> 1:17:44.956
<v Speaker 2>probably almost thirty years later. I had to wait to

1:17:44.956 --> 1:17:46.476
<v Speaker 2>get a song out of it, but it was spirit,

1:17:46.556 --> 1:17:47.116
<v Speaker 2>power and soul.

1:17:47.436 --> 1:17:48.596
<v Speaker 1>Ah so cool.

1:17:48.876 --> 1:17:49.876
<v Speaker 3>It came up with the riffs.

1:17:49.876 --> 1:17:52.956
<v Speaker 2>So hey, that's my that's that's my excuse, and I'm

1:17:52.956 --> 1:17:54.196
<v Speaker 2>sticking to it. Man.

1:17:54.236 --> 1:17:55.996
<v Speaker 1>I got a thousand and one questions for you. Man,

1:17:56.036 --> 1:17:58.116
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. It's such a such a pleasure.

1:17:58.196 --> 1:18:00.356
<v Speaker 3>Hearkened to you all right, man, all the best. Thank

1:18:00.396 --> 1:18:00.956
<v Speaker 3>you see here.

1:18:03.956 --> 1:18:07.556
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Johnny Mar for talking about his epic career. You

1:18:07.596 --> 1:18:10.356
<v Speaker 1>can hear all of our favorite track featuring Mar, as

1:18:10.396 --> 1:18:12.596
<v Speaker 1>well as some of his solo work on a playlist

1:18:12.636 --> 1:18:16.476
<v Speaker 1>app Broken record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to

1:18:16.516 --> 1:18:20.316
<v Speaker 1>our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast,

1:18:20.396 --> 1:18:23.116
<v Speaker 1>where you can find all of our new episodes. You

1:18:23.156 --> 1:18:26.876
<v Speaker 1>can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record

1:18:26.916 --> 1:18:30.476
<v Speaker 1>is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday,

1:18:30.676 --> 1:18:35.196
<v Speaker 1>and Eric sam Our editor is Sophie Kran. Broken Record

1:18:35.236 --> 1:18:37.756
<v Speaker 1>is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this

1:18:37.836 --> 1:18:41.156
<v Speaker 1>show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

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<v Speaker 1>an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.

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<v Speaker 1>Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and

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<v Speaker 1>review us on your podcast app. My theme musics by

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<v Speaker 1>Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rischman.