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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Johnny Marr is maybe the last in a line

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Speaker 1: of acclaimed British guitarists. He's played with tons of bands,

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Speaker 1: including most famously, The Smiths. Mar started playing guitar as

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Speaker 1: a young teenager growing up in Manchester. When he turned fifteen,

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Speaker 1: he dropped out of school and moved to London to

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Speaker 1: join the band Sister Ray. A couple of years later,

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Speaker 1: he wound up helping to form The Smiths with Morrissey,

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Speaker 1: Mike Joyce and Mars's friend and bassist Andy Rourke. Then,

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Speaker 1: after The Smiths broke up in eighty seven, he went

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Speaker 1: on to collaborate with an array of different musicians and

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Speaker 1: playing bands like The Pretenders, The The and even later

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Speaker 1: Modest Mouse. In the early adds, Mars started releasing solo material,

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Speaker 1: and he's on the brink of releasing a new album

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Speaker 1: full of the best songs from his solo career. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, I talked to Johnny Marr about his exciting

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Speaker 1: work in the studio with Farrell and on Zimmer. Mar

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Speaker 1: also recalls the terror he felt performing live in front

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Speaker 1: of massive stadiums full of fans with The Pretenders on

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Speaker 1: YouTube's Joshua Tree Tour He also talks about the time

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Speaker 1: he bought a Fender Stratocaster with Noel Gallagher from Oasis

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Speaker 1: that Stratt had nine pickups and eventually led him to

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Speaker 1: write one of the best songs of his solo career.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Ritchman. Here's my conversation with Johnny Marr. It

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Speaker 1: seems like a really sort of whirlwind time in your life.

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Speaker 1: It must be like a lot of things that are

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Speaker 1: connected to you.

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Speaker 2: Now, do you know what I've been really looking at

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Speaker 2: in hand on her and maybe accept for I don't know,

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Speaker 2: a period in my I guess mid thirties or something where,

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Speaker 2: you know, for a couple of years I was sort

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Speaker 2: of like doing other things. But I feel like I've

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Speaker 2: been busy for like forty years or something. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know it sounds crazy, but I'm always I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of busy because I'm a workaholic. Well, actually it's a

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Speaker 2: bad way of putting it. I'm really passionate about what

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Speaker 2: I do. I've been doing the same things as intensely

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Speaker 2: as I do now.

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Speaker 3: I've been doing that since I was fifteen.

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Speaker 2: I left school at fifteen to join a pro band

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Speaker 2: with adults at fifteen and then really ever since nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty two, when I've made my first record with the Smiths,

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Speaker 2: I just feel like I've never really stopped, you know,

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Speaker 2: so I've been obviously I feel very very grateful to

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Speaker 2: be to do that. But yeah, I mean, I suppose

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Speaker 2: the last big thing I did was the Bond movie

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Speaker 2: with an Zimmer. But and this year, really we've got

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Speaker 2: a best of coming out. I was on tour with

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Speaker 2: the Killers last year and right now I'm just rehearsing

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Speaker 2: to go out and.

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Speaker 3: Do some more stuff.

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Speaker 2: Really, you know, I've not done a solo or best

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Speaker 2: of yet before that's about.

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Speaker 3: To come out now, And that was that was to

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Speaker 3: do with the record coming in.

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Speaker 2: The management just kind of went, hey, look, we know

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Speaker 2: that you're going to be expect them to go in

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Speaker 2: and make another LP, make another album. Well you've only

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Speaker 2: just done a double album last year, so just hold

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Speaker 2: your horses and let's just it's been ten years since

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Speaker 2: you've had this solo band, and let's just put it

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Speaker 2: all on the best of and if you if you

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Speaker 2: think it's a good listen, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Do you like it? Have you have you sequenced it

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Speaker 1: and listened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: I know this might sound a little odd to say,

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Speaker 2: but being given the assignment to put a best of

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Speaker 2: out when it wasn't driven by me, when it comes

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Speaker 2: from someone else, and going oh, okay, right, let me

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Speaker 2: look at that, and then getting it all mastered and

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Speaker 2: listening to it, you know, because I had to listen

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Speaker 2: to the test pressings. Right, So the test presents coming,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I've been doing this since I was

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Speaker 2: a kid, Right, test presents come.

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Speaker 3: I'm always excited about.

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Speaker 2: That, like, oh, great white labels, and you put it

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Speaker 2: on the turntable and you have to sit and you

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Speaker 2: have to listen for any little pops or anything.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I said to the band guys last night I got

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Speaker 2: the test presence of them. You know, it's a pretty

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Speaker 2: good album, man, it's a good listen, you know, because

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Speaker 2: I don't take anything for granted, you know, justin so.

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Speaker 3: So please with it.

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Speaker 1: It's great. I'd be excited to check that out because

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Speaker 1: I've sort of been over the last year just curating,

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Speaker 1: oddly enough, just different playlists of things that you're involved in,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, just randomly resequencing Smith's records just

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Speaker 1: for fun or like, yeah, I made a playlist of

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Speaker 1: stuff that was just stuff that you've played on but

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Speaker 1: weren't like bands that you were actually a part of.

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Speaker 3: Ye.

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Speaker 1: And then your last record, the Fever Dreams one through four,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just came out. It was like a wealth

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Speaker 1: of great material. You know.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that that I've done all of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean obviously, but I did a couple of tracks

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Speaker 2: with Beck, and then I did maybe four or five

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Speaker 2: tracks with John Fishanty, and then I popped up on

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Speaker 2: records with all these different really cool musicians. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but perchance, Yeah, And that was so well. As I

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Speaker 2: was doing it, I was thinking, wow, man, this is

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Speaker 2: oh I love this music, and what a cool thing,

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Speaker 2: you know. So so like when John vi Shanity, he

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Speaker 2: invited me over to when he was working on the

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Speaker 2: Imperium and it was like, I've got these tracks, take

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Speaker 2: your pick, and he played me a track and I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, I think I can do something on

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Speaker 2: that band and played me another track. Oh, I've got

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Speaker 2: an idea for that bank And then you know, a

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Speaker 2: couple of days later you kind of go, well, that

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Speaker 2: was a nice experience. So I think what I'm saying

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Speaker 2: is none of it's planned. It's all this kind of

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say it a journey. I've been a

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Speaker 2: musician and being very, very fortunate that people who were

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Speaker 2: doing cool things have invited me to do cool things

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Speaker 2: with them.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's never been planned.

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Speaker 1: Is it something about you, like you yourself as a person,

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Speaker 1: or about your plane, or a bit of both that

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Speaker 1: allows you to fit in with so many different kinds

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Speaker 1: of people.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess so, But I think musicians are very

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Speaker 2: welcoming and inclusive types of people. It might be a

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Speaker 2: bit cheesy, but I have a certain kind of pride

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Speaker 2: in that, not my personal coming about myself, but my

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Speaker 2: you know, brothers and sisters of music. You know they

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Speaker 2: because let's put it this way, I've been around.

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Speaker 3: I don't whether you've ever.

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Speaker 2: Been in a room with several actors or in a

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Speaker 2: taxi with several comedians, but often there's a bit of

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Speaker 2: a competitive vibe. I know it's a generalization, right. I

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Speaker 2: know a bunch of great actors, and I know a

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Speaker 2: bunch of some great comedians, right, But I've noticed that

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Speaker 2: musicians are very You get a couple of musicians together,

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Speaker 2: and you go, hey, did you have you ever heard

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Speaker 2: this thing that came out in nineteen eighty six?

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Speaker 3: Oh man, you're gonna love.

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Speaker 2: It, or I really really like this thing, or oh man,

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Speaker 2: did you know that he played the drums on this

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Speaker 2: record in nineteen sixty five, And there's always this sharing

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Speaker 2: kind of think, Well, I'm really typical like that as

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Speaker 2: a as a musician, I suppose I'm very enthusiastic.

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Speaker 3: If I hear something that I'm into.

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Speaker 2: And the people that I've mentioned may Pet Shop Boys

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Speaker 2: as well. You know, we had a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a tradition for a while there where they would always

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Speaker 2: get me to do the B sides of their singles.

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Speaker 2: They were like, well, okay, we've got this this electro

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Speaker 2: pop and the B side. Usually it'd be like this,

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Speaker 2: the B side is slightly experimental, and it'd be interesting

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Speaker 2: to put a guitar on it, which in Pet Shop

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Speaker 2: Boys land is being experimental, which and then and they go, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: Johnny'll do it. And I'm the guy for that because

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Speaker 2: I love them, and so I've got to be on

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Speaker 2: more Pet Shop Boys records than any other musician. I

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Speaker 2: pop up and do all the ones where they go listen,

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Speaker 2: We've got this guitar song. You know, I'm very proud

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Speaker 2: of that. So to answer your question, it's a partly

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Speaker 2: to do with my personality being very, very typical kind

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Speaker 2: of musician. That means I will stay in the studio

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Speaker 2: either listening to stories or telling stories till really till

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Speaker 2: three am or whatever it used to be seven am.

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Speaker 3: But these days are a little bit more moderate.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing is, I guess the second thing

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, I like to play guitar that I think

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Speaker 2: is appropriate to whatever the song is. So if all

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Speaker 2: that's required is, like recently on No Gallagher stuff, for instance,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going in there going right okay by bar eight,

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Speaker 2: you really need to know that I'm on it.

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Speaker 3: I just kind of go, what's the song? And I

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Speaker 3: sort of.

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Speaker 2: Think in that regard, I'm not really beyond thinking like

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Speaker 2: a session musician.

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Speaker 3: I don't have to really be this big deal on it,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's the thing I really enjoy about your playing in

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Speaker 1: your career is there is this bit of you that

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Speaker 1: almost approaches music the way like a jazz musician did

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Speaker 1: in the fifties or sixties, like Herbie Hancock can put out,

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Speaker 1: you know, peer in Islands, and then also just go

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Speaker 1: play on like a great Lee Morgan record, and he

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Speaker 1: puts as much of his heart and soul into that

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Speaker 1: side man work quote unquote, you can tell as he

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Speaker 1: seem to have done his own records. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's an absolute honor because I think

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Speaker 2: that sort of feels about right. I think when you

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Speaker 2: were talking then, I was thinking paradoxically, people who say

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Speaker 2: they don't like jazz or people who don't like jazz,

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Speaker 2: I think it's about just people blowing. But to me,

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Speaker 2: one of the best things about jazz musicians is to

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Speaker 2: be a good jazz musician, you have to listen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to listen to what everybody else is doing.

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Speaker 2: It's a conversation and you know you can do that

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Speaker 2: in indie rock again, come back to say, the most

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Speaker 2: recent thing that I've done with somebody else with no

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Speaker 2: Gallagher stuff. I want to make the record really good,

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Speaker 2: you know. So there's bits where you lay out, and

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Speaker 2: then there's bits when you play just textual stuff, and

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Speaker 2: then there's bits where you come in with the riff.

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Speaker 2: And ultimately it's his record and his vision, and he

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Speaker 2: trusts me to do because he knows that I'm all

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Speaker 2: about the big picture and not about me just stepping

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Speaker 2: all over it other times.

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Speaker 3: Though, you know, I did a record with.

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Speaker 2: The Australian project Avalanches a few years ago with me

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Speaker 2: and MGMs were on there. Yeah, me and MGMT did

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Speaker 2: a song with them, and that was that was really

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Speaker 2: cool because they had this idea for this riff and

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Speaker 2: I said, okay, well what about if I just develop it?

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Speaker 2: And then what I did was sort of featured and

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Speaker 2: that kind of floated through the track.

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Speaker 3: So it's whatever's appropriate. Really.

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Speaker 2: I remember when I was learning, maybe twelve thirteen something,

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Speaker 2: so I sort of have been in the mid seventies just.

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Speaker 3: For punk broke out.

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Speaker 2: Back then, there wasn't you know, you wouldn't be able

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Speaker 2: to go in Barnes and Noble or Waterstones in England

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Speaker 2: and see like shelves and shelves of books about anybody.

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Speaker 3: You know. I'm sure Justin Bieber has got a whole

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Speaker 3: wall for but whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but back then that wasn't a thing, right, So

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Speaker 2: I would read the music press and I would go

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Speaker 2: into the library and if a book did appear about

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Speaker 2: whoever it was, I didn't if it caught my interest.

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Speaker 2: I would read it or just stand in the bookstore

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Speaker 2: and read it. There's only a few things around. I

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Speaker 2: remember there's one about Pete Sounds, and there was a

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Speaker 2: Miles Davis one, and.

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Speaker 3: There was led Zeppelin monster stuff.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, when you start off, if you're really obsessive,

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Speaker 2: as I was, some bits of information really stick to you.

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Speaker 2: And there was it was either Keith Richards or John Lennon,

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Speaker 2: I think, was saying that the most important part of

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Speaker 2: being a guitar player is being able to play rhythm.

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Speaker 2: And to a twelve year old boy whose poles are

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Speaker 2: all going, you know, trying to play all this shreddy

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Speaker 2: stuff or whatever, when I read that information, I was

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Speaker 2: kind of like, huh, it sounded really noble to me.

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Speaker 2: And this thing of underpinning the band and having the

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Speaker 2: groove down and all of that. And then obviously as

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Speaker 2: time went on and I got into people like Keith

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Speaker 2: Richards or or obviously Nol Rodgers and people like that,

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Speaker 2: and you know, Jimmy Nolan who plays with James Brown

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Speaker 2: and just any number of really great rhythm players. That's

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Speaker 2: just one of the chapters that you need to have

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Speaker 2: got through, you know, what I mean, it's just part

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Speaker 2: of being a guitar player.

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Speaker 3: I think. I just think it's really cool to just

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Speaker 3: like be appropriate to the song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is your phone just open? You just say, people

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Speaker 1: just know you're ready to play all these.

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Speaker 2: Pretty Yeah, I know pretty much because it's been that

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Speaker 2: way for years. I mean a lot, I know a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. I mean, I'm always I'm never not

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Speaker 2: available for Brian Ferry because I've been working with Brian

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Speaker 2: now since nineteen eighties eighty seven, and Brian's always writing,

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Speaker 2: and he's always he's always making tracks. He's always got

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Speaker 2: tracks upon the go and he comes back to them

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Speaker 2: and all this sort of stuff. So that's been an

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Speaker 2: ongoing thing for years. But then since I guess twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: Hands Zimmer. If Hands wants something doing, even if it's

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Speaker 2: something on the on the choiet, just you know, you

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Speaker 2: need a little bit of this or I'll do that.

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Speaker 1: What an incredible relationship, I mean, musical relationship you guys

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Speaker 1: have built.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he really taught me a lot. I think with Hands,

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Speaker 2: he's he's got the soul of a rock musician. And

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Speaker 2: if you go to his shows, which are now like

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Speaker 2: three hours long, and it's some of the pieces that

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Speaker 2: he's doing in this current show, which actually my son

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Speaker 2: plays plays in that.

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Speaker 3: I've been I've been upgraded to the mar.

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Speaker 2: Version two two point zero, so my son plays in that.

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Speaker 2: But there are some moments in that show that it

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Speaker 2: makes Cashmere sound like a boy band. It's wow, amazingly

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Speaker 2: orchestrated rock music.

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Speaker 3: At the heart of it is rock music.

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Speaker 2: And you know, with me and hands, you know, once

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Speaker 2: we get talking about music and talking about melotrons and

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Speaker 2: fair lights or late sixties strats or what you know,

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Speaker 2: or Tangerine dream or whatever next thing, we look at

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Speaker 2: our watch and it's you know, it's Quartpus three in

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Speaker 2: the am, you know, and we just sit around his

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Speaker 2: studios listening to music, playing music or talking about music.

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Speaker 2: It's so that's what my pals are like. My friends

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Speaker 2: are the same as me, you know, we're Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: it's what I dreamed of when I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: For Shanty's same kind of character being around John Frushanti,

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Speaker 1: the amount of guitar players he can reference in a

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Speaker 1: given moment, and he feels like he's able to synthesize

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Speaker 1: all of these disparate you know, he's almost like a

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Speaker 1: computer to me, Like talk about AI, It's like, how

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Speaker 1: is he pulling from all that at once? That's it's insane.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's well, there's a couple of things that come

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Speaker 2: to mind when you say that. I think you're absolutely

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Speaker 2: right about John and there's a few other people I

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Speaker 2: know like that. I think people who are great, whoever

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Speaker 2: they are. But in my field it's musicians. They are experts,

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Speaker 2: absolute experts. And that might sound obvious, but there's this

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Speaker 2: famous story about when Bob Marley first went into record

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Speaker 2: and it was like some little four track and he

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Speaker 2: was like sixteen or seventeen or something. I think it

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Speaker 2: was with Cocksol or something. And if you hear enough

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Speaker 2: about those stories, you hear you know what. He was

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Speaker 2: kind of a pain in the ass because he would

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Speaker 2: be like, the backing vocals are too loud, back in

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Speaker 2: volks are too loud. Because he'd studied the Coasters, and

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Speaker 2: he'd studied the Drifters, and he'd studied Curtis Mayfel and

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Speaker 2: the Impressions, so he knew how the backing vocals on those.

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Speaker 2: This is when he was a kid, right, But you

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Speaker 2: could go right across in sports, I'm sure in business too,

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Speaker 2: but people who are great are real experts. I guess

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Speaker 2: it's not a surprise because it's your passion.

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Speaker 1: So become obcessive, You've become obsessive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: you love.

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Speaker 3: It, that's right, you know.

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Speaker 2: And then the second thing you're talking about there, like

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Speaker 2: with Johnny's and other people like that, are there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of musicians like this. They take all of these

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Speaker 2: different elements only to them make sense and then it

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Speaker 2: comes out. But when you hear it, he goes, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like that. So for example, in my case,

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Speaker 2: like for forty years, I didn't really do a lot

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Speaker 2: of interviews in the early Smith's days, but when I

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Speaker 2: was asked about guitar playing, when I had to really

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Speaker 2: nail it down, I was like, well, now Rogers, Bert

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Speaker 2: Jansch and James Williamson from the studios, Now that's yeah,

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Speaker 2: but that's a pretty boat after anyone who's followed me

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Speaker 2: for years and years knows that they're my like they're

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Speaker 2: my tree.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I love a lot, you know, I

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Speaker 3: love what Roy Gallagher was doing. I love what you know.

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Speaker 2: John my Geeock from the band Cheese and Will Sergeant

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Speaker 2: from the Bunny Men. I mean there's hundreds. I mean

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Speaker 2: I could stay here just giving a list and lists

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Speaker 2: of amazing guitar players. Obviously, but at first people would

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Speaker 2: were like, huh, come again, what you like now Rogers

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Speaker 2: I influenced the Smith's. But over time, now people know

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Speaker 2: that some of these songs like that, I go, well,

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Speaker 2: listen to the Boy, listen to the second verse in

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Speaker 2: The Boy with the Thorn in his Side, and or

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Speaker 2: there's a famous story about when I wrote Handy Glove.

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Speaker 2: It just started out as a sheet riff, so point

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Speaker 2: being that that made total sense to me. But you

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Speaker 2: put it all through a funnel, comes in through your

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Speaker 2: own mind, and then it comes out and people go, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like Johnny mar right. But to me, if

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Speaker 2: I told you what I was thinking of when I

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Speaker 2: was trying to come up with some of these, if

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Speaker 2: you go.

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Speaker 1: What, I'm so glad that you mentioned James Williamson too, though,

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Speaker 1: because as much as I love the Ashley on Brown

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Speaker 1: Ashton and the Ashton Brothers, James Williamson man like some

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Speaker 1: of those. I feel like some of that music with

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Speaker 1: James gets discounted. That Kill City record. Yeah, Iggy is

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Speaker 1: just one. I mean, I don't know, man, I go

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Speaker 1: to that record all the time because it just blows

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Speaker 1: me away.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing because when I first met Noel Gallagher,

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Speaker 2: he was a fairly he was young. No, it would

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Speaker 2: have been about maybe twenty or something nineteen. I was

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Speaker 2: pretty young myself, maybe twenty six, twenty seven, but the

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Speaker 2: first time he came to my house, that was the

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Speaker 2: record I gave it. Wasn't aware of it, But I

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Speaker 2: don't know whether this is so what I got from

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Speaker 2: James Willimson. I had thought I was playing when I

372
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Speaker 2: was about fifteen, and it was something like and a

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, Billy Duffiy, went on it being the call.

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Speaker 2: He said to me, that sounds like gimme Danger, and

375
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Speaker 2: I was like, what's that. I've never heard a gimme danger?

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Speaker 2: And anyway, so a long story, but I tracked down

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Speaker 2: raw Power. So when I heard that, I went, well,

378
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Speaker 2: that sounds like the way I'm trying to play, so

379
00:18:54,756 --> 00:18:56,636
Speaker 2: you know, the truth be told. I was a bit

380
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Speaker 2: pissed that someone had already beat me to this, this new.

381
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Speaker 3: Song I was writing. So James is a massive influence

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Speaker 3: on me.

383
00:19:03,156 --> 00:19:04,916
Speaker 2: Massive. When I heard that, I just kind of went,

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Speaker 2: you're on the right path. You know you're doing the

385
00:19:08,556 --> 00:19:11,516
Speaker 2: right thing. And then with say, just for an illustration,

386
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Speaker 2: seeing as I don't always do this, but just guitar,

387
00:19:14,876 --> 00:19:17,396
Speaker 2: I don't make can hear his probably? But the Smith's

388
00:19:17,396 --> 00:19:30,996
Speaker 2: song Handing Glove, well that started off when I first

389
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Speaker 2: started playing.

390
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Speaker 3: It, it went, which is me trying to be cheek.

391
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Speaker 2: It was my girlfriend said make it sound more like Iggy,

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Speaker 2: so I did and I ended up sounding like that.

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Speaker 3: But that and that was the first Smith single.

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Speaker 2: But when we came out no One, I believe when

395
00:20:00,236 --> 00:20:03,476
Speaker 2: I said I was now Rogers was a huge influence

396
00:20:03,516 --> 00:20:06,476
Speaker 2: on me, you know. So you know that's what musicians

397
00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:08,716
Speaker 2: are like though, aren't they? And I think maybe creative

398
00:20:08,716 --> 00:20:12,236
Speaker 2: people as well. Sometimes you're trying to copy your heroes

399
00:20:12,276 --> 00:20:16,076
Speaker 2: and your limitations kind of get I mean, I'm not

400
00:20:16,076 --> 00:20:18,276
Speaker 2: the first person I said this, but your limitations just

401
00:20:18,356 --> 00:20:20,876
Speaker 2: kind of put a stamp on what you can and

402
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Speaker 2: can't do.

403
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Speaker 1: We're going to take a break and then come back

404
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Speaker 1: with more of my interview with Johnny Marr. We're back

405
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Speaker 1: with more from Johnny Marr. How much in terms of

406
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Speaker 1: just raw skill do you feel like you've developed from

407
00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:42,916
Speaker 1: let's say nineteen eighty to now.

408
00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:45,956
Speaker 3: Well, I took it really seriously. I started.

409
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Speaker 2: My parents to this day still really their music freaks.

410
00:20:50,876 --> 00:20:52,676
Speaker 2: So I grew up in a house of Irish parents

411
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Speaker 2: who treated music like it was a religion.

412
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Speaker 3: So if I like someone, they really really really like them.

413
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Speaker 2: And so I want to see my parents, who are

414
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Speaker 2: in their eighties now, and my dad was showing me

415
00:21:06,636 --> 00:21:09,276
Speaker 2: this country music podcast that he just got into and

416
00:21:09,636 --> 00:21:12,476
Speaker 2: they're still didn't it to this day. My mother she's

417
00:21:12,516 --> 00:21:16,956
Speaker 2: super into like watching new country singers and singer songwriters

418
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Speaker 2: on YouTube.

419
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Speaker 3: So they were really young.

420
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Speaker 2: When I was a kid, So I was brought up

421
00:21:22,036 --> 00:21:27,916
Speaker 2: around all these young Irish adults, your teenagers, really playing music.

422
00:21:28,036 --> 00:21:30,716
Speaker 2: So to answer your question, what happened was I just

423
00:21:30,756 --> 00:21:32,996
Speaker 2: got really obsessed with a guitar. I got my first

424
00:21:33,036 --> 00:21:34,796
Speaker 2: proper one that I could play chords on when I

425
00:21:34,796 --> 00:21:37,836
Speaker 2: was about eight or nine, and then I started just

426
00:21:37,836 --> 00:21:39,676
Speaker 2: trying to play the records on the radio like a

427
00:21:39,676 --> 00:21:42,516
Speaker 2: lot of people. So I started playing, you know, like

428
00:21:42,756 --> 00:21:45,236
Speaker 2: getting my own little tunes together and stuff when I

429
00:21:45,276 --> 00:21:47,956
Speaker 2: was about nine or ten, and then enrolling my friends

430
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Speaker 2: to be these little bands, and I, you know, i'd write.

431
00:21:51,156 --> 00:21:53,036
Speaker 3: I'd do just like t Rex ripoffs.

432
00:21:53,076 --> 00:21:56,316
Speaker 2: Really, all my songs were just like t Rex copies.

433
00:21:56,396 --> 00:21:59,996
Speaker 2: And then I just had a sort of natural knack

434
00:22:00,076 --> 00:22:02,036
Speaker 2: to be out of place to kind of riffs.

435
00:22:02,476 --> 00:22:03,996
Speaker 3: But if i'd have.

436
00:22:04,396 --> 00:22:07,516
Speaker 2: Been the sort of person who was, you know, just

437
00:22:07,636 --> 00:22:10,516
Speaker 2: in a copy of other people and not being a songwriter,

438
00:22:11,476 --> 00:22:14,596
Speaker 2: you know, I probably would have been shredding away forever.

439
00:22:14,636 --> 00:22:16,796
Speaker 2: But you know, it's not really my thing that really

440
00:22:16,836 --> 00:22:19,396
Speaker 2: I wanted to sort of I went to have my

441
00:22:19,396 --> 00:22:21,916
Speaker 2: own band with my own sound, you know, so.

442
00:22:22,436 --> 00:22:23,916
Speaker 3: The skill I have a master. I don't know what

443
00:22:24,116 --> 00:22:25,316
Speaker 3: is answering your question.

444
00:22:25,156 --> 00:22:28,596
Speaker 2: But coming back to hanns Zimmer, what I did on

445
00:22:28,716 --> 00:22:32,236
Speaker 2: Inception was pretty simple. But when it came to actually

446
00:22:32,316 --> 00:22:36,276
Speaker 2: playing it on stage with an orchestra, like sixty pieces

447
00:22:36,316 --> 00:22:38,356
Speaker 2: on stage with a choir and all of that stuff,

448
00:22:38,596 --> 00:22:40,276
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have ever been able to do that when

449
00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:41,996
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties. I wouldn't have been able

450
00:22:41,996 --> 00:22:44,036
Speaker 2: to do it in my thirties either, really, and I

451
00:22:44,116 --> 00:22:46,196
Speaker 2: might not have even come up with that really simple part.

452
00:22:46,196 --> 00:22:48,276
Speaker 3: I think when you get older, you.

453
00:22:48,276 --> 00:22:52,916
Speaker 2: Kind of know what you're about, and it's about what

454
00:22:52,956 --> 00:22:55,036
Speaker 2: I came up with was kind of right for the movie,

455
00:22:55,396 --> 00:22:57,836
Speaker 2: and I might not have ever been able to do

456
00:22:57,916 --> 00:22:58,676
Speaker 2: that when I was young.

457
00:22:58,876 --> 00:23:00,356
Speaker 3: But I practice every day.

458
00:23:00,836 --> 00:23:05,036
Speaker 2: I go through periods where I just practice practice, and

459
00:23:05,076 --> 00:23:07,756
Speaker 2: then I play absent mindedly when i'm you know, around

460
00:23:07,796 --> 00:23:08,356
Speaker 2: the house.

461
00:23:08,116 --> 00:23:08,916
Speaker 3: And watching TV.

462
00:23:09,676 --> 00:23:13,156
Speaker 2: But I'm going through another phase now where I'll come

463
00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:15,956
Speaker 2: in this little studio here and put the headphones on

464
00:23:16,116 --> 00:23:19,156
Speaker 2: and and just play and play and try and get

465
00:23:19,316 --> 00:23:20,796
Speaker 2: you know, try and get my chops. So maybe that's

466
00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:23,596
Speaker 2: because I'm going out live or I don't know why,

467
00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:27,476
Speaker 2: but that connects me to the kidd I was when

468
00:23:27,476 --> 00:23:28,556
Speaker 2: I was eleven or twelve.

469
00:23:29,636 --> 00:23:31,276
Speaker 3: Honestly, it's got nothing to do with career.

470
00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:34,436
Speaker 2: There's got nothing to do with the Smith's, got nothing

471
00:23:34,476 --> 00:23:36,516
Speaker 2: to do with like you know, Johnny Mara, or nothing

472
00:23:36,556 --> 00:23:39,196
Speaker 2: to do with business or anything.

473
00:23:39,316 --> 00:23:41,636
Speaker 3: It's because that was my first love. When I was

474
00:23:41,636 --> 00:23:42,236
Speaker 3: ten year eleven.

475
00:23:42,236 --> 00:23:44,236
Speaker 2: I used to peel off from when kids were playing

476
00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:46,636
Speaker 2: football or we were whatever, we were climbing trees or whatever.

477
00:23:47,196 --> 00:23:49,356
Speaker 2: Sometimes I would just go and disappear and I'd go

478
00:23:49,396 --> 00:23:51,316
Speaker 2: into my room on my own and just play for

479
00:23:51,356 --> 00:23:53,196
Speaker 2: a couple of hours, not even plugged in. And I

480
00:23:53,316 --> 00:23:58,116
Speaker 2: make all these discoveries and moving chord shapes around. And

481
00:23:59,356 --> 00:24:03,236
Speaker 2: you know what, man, I'm so grateful that I still

482
00:24:03,676 --> 00:24:08,116
Speaker 2: want to do that. Yeah, for fun. It's like it's

483
00:24:08,156 --> 00:24:08,636
Speaker 2: my hobby.

484
00:24:09,516 --> 00:24:09,916
Speaker 3: Yeah.

485
00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:12,596
Speaker 1: It's the dream for any guitar player to have a

486
00:24:12,636 --> 00:24:14,876
Speaker 1: setup just like you have in Spiel to do that

487
00:24:14,956 --> 00:24:15,356
Speaker 1: all day.

488
00:24:15,396 --> 00:24:18,956
Speaker 3: That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, musician.

489
00:24:18,556 --> 00:24:21,076
Speaker 1: And you know whatever respective instrument is, like, that's the dream.

490
00:24:21,716 --> 00:24:22,196
Speaker 3: Yeah.

491
00:24:22,236 --> 00:24:23,956
Speaker 2: But then when it comes time to do an album

492
00:24:24,036 --> 00:24:26,476
Speaker 2: sometimes I have to I know myself well enough that

493
00:24:26,876 --> 00:24:31,196
Speaker 2: I have to think about the guitar in a different way. Man,

494
00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:33,316
Speaker 2: if you give me an if you give me three

495
00:24:33,356 --> 00:24:36,596
Speaker 2: more lifetimes, okay, I'd love to be John McLaughlin.

496
00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:39,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, ah, but.

497
00:24:39,236 --> 00:24:40,396
Speaker 3: I'm also quite happy.

498
00:24:40,596 --> 00:24:43,156
Speaker 2: But I'm also really happy having been the guitar player

499
00:24:43,196 --> 00:24:44,556
Speaker 2: in Modest Mouse for a few years.

500
00:24:44,796 --> 00:24:45,996
Speaker 3: That's fine by me.

501
00:24:46,476 --> 00:24:50,436
Speaker 1: That was incredible work, man, incredible record.

502
00:24:50,996 --> 00:24:54,596
Speaker 2: That was because I was in a situation with amazing chemistry.

503
00:24:55,436 --> 00:24:55,876
Speaker 3: There was a.

504
00:24:55,836 --> 00:25:00,796
Speaker 2: Moment when we were in Mississippi and we were recording

505
00:25:01,076 --> 00:25:03,236
Speaker 2: the recording. It's one of those times it was like

506
00:25:03,276 --> 00:25:05,996
Speaker 2: maybe what the four o'clock in the afternoon, We've been

507
00:25:06,356 --> 00:25:09,636
Speaker 2: trying to get the backing track down to some song

508
00:25:10,476 --> 00:25:13,076
Speaker 2: on week three or whatever, and I was just stood

509
00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:16,716
Speaker 2: there and then I just had a moment of present

510
00:25:16,796 --> 00:25:21,596
Speaker 2: moment awareness, as you know, as it's called, where I

511
00:25:21,716 --> 00:25:26,276
Speaker 2: just looked around and I went the chemistry in this

512
00:25:26,436 --> 00:25:30,396
Speaker 2: room with these bunch of people is really really special.

513
00:25:31,116 --> 00:25:35,596
Speaker 2: This particular bunch of people right now is not just

514
00:25:35,716 --> 00:25:38,196
Speaker 2: a good vibe, but it's really unusual.

515
00:25:39,076 --> 00:25:40,956
Speaker 3: Because one we had two drummers in that band.

516
00:25:40,996 --> 00:25:43,876
Speaker 2: One drummer was his thing was like he might have

517
00:25:43,956 --> 00:25:46,636
Speaker 2: been like, Okay, on this track, I hear pair Ubu,

518
00:25:46,996 --> 00:25:50,276
Speaker 2: or I hear public image, public Image, or r I

519
00:25:50,396 --> 00:25:53,756
Speaker 2: hear Stuart Copeland, So Joe plummerould be doing that. And

520
00:25:53,796 --> 00:25:57,596
Speaker 2: then Jerey Mike Green, who passed away just only a

521
00:25:57,596 --> 00:25:59,836
Speaker 2: few months ago, he was the other drummer, and he

522
00:25:59,876 --> 00:26:02,236
Speaker 2: would have been going in his head, oh, this is

523
00:26:02,356 --> 00:26:05,756
Speaker 2: like fellow cootie, or this is like a rave or

524
00:26:06,116 --> 00:26:06,756
Speaker 2: so yeah, there are.

525
00:26:06,676 --> 00:26:10,636
Speaker 3: Two drummers like that. And then the player Eric Judy.

526
00:26:10,716 --> 00:26:14,956
Speaker 2: He was always writing these like little tunes on either

527
00:26:14,996 --> 00:26:17,716
Speaker 2: accordion at that time, or he was teaching him Yeah,

528
00:26:17,716 --> 00:26:19,956
Speaker 2: he was teaching himself the acordion, teach himself the flute.

529
00:26:20,516 --> 00:26:22,436
Speaker 2: And he had some little riff that he'd be playing

530
00:26:22,476 --> 00:26:24,396
Speaker 2: on the flute, and then he just go, oh, I'm

531
00:26:24,476 --> 00:26:26,756
Speaker 2: just trying to do that on the base. So yeah,

532
00:26:26,756 --> 00:26:32,476
Speaker 2: these really unusual, cool, almost dugby basslines. And then the

533
00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:34,876
Speaker 2: other guy in the band, he's a real utility guy,

534
00:26:34,916 --> 00:26:37,076
Speaker 2: and he might have been doing something on a pedal

535
00:26:37,116 --> 00:26:40,436
Speaker 2: steel or his mind was somewhere else. And then Isaac's

536
00:26:40,436 --> 00:26:45,436
Speaker 2: got his amazing multi layered lyrical agenda that you know

537
00:26:45,556 --> 00:26:48,956
Speaker 2: is coming from all different places. And then I got

538
00:26:49,236 --> 00:26:50,996
Speaker 2: my thing that I was like when I got out

539
00:26:51,036 --> 00:26:52,956
Speaker 2: of bed that day or that week, I was going,

540
00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:54,836
Speaker 2: this is what I want my this is what I

541
00:26:54,876 --> 00:26:57,636
Speaker 2: want to bring to this outfit, whatever agenda I've got,

542
00:26:58,276 --> 00:27:00,556
Speaker 2: and it all fit, it all just fitted together.

543
00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:04,636
Speaker 1: Did you have to think through how you might blend

544
00:27:04,636 --> 00:27:06,436
Speaker 1: with this, because it seems like everyone felt like they

545
00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:08,876
Speaker 1: had their thing and you're kind of getting put into it.

546
00:27:09,476 --> 00:27:11,116
Speaker 1: Did it take your second to figure out, Okay, this

547
00:27:11,156 --> 00:27:12,876
Speaker 1: is what I want to bring or was it kinda

548
00:27:13,276 --> 00:27:14,676
Speaker 1: just luckily instantaneous.

549
00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:18,956
Speaker 2: No, No, I conceptualized it, which I don't mean to

550
00:27:18,956 --> 00:27:22,996
Speaker 2: sound very dry or contrived, even though no, I really

551
00:27:23,076 --> 00:27:26,356
Speaker 2: enjoyed going, what's my role here? How can I be

552
00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:34,276
Speaker 2: really useful and bring something melodic, catchy technical. It was

553
00:27:34,316 --> 00:27:37,476
Speaker 2: a little like Ocean six, and I happened to be

554
00:27:37,556 --> 00:27:41,036
Speaker 2: the kind of British bomb disposal expert or the safe cracker.

555
00:27:41,276 --> 00:27:44,796
Speaker 3: I was like the safer Yeah. No, I really enjoyed that.

556
00:27:44,876 --> 00:27:47,276
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, I can't just put my head down

557
00:27:47,316 --> 00:27:50,156
Speaker 2: and go one, two, three, four and just play. I

558
00:27:50,276 --> 00:27:55,076
Speaker 2: really really enjoyed devising all these parts, and on that

559
00:27:55,196 --> 00:27:59,716
Speaker 2: record we were dead for anyone who's interested. Usually I'm

560
00:27:59,756 --> 00:28:01,556
Speaker 2: doing all the stuff on the left and Isaac's doing

561
00:28:01,556 --> 00:28:03,796
Speaker 2: the stuff on the right, and we this might be

562
00:28:03,836 --> 00:28:06,796
Speaker 2: getting a bit too music. But when we were coming

563
00:28:06,836 --> 00:28:08,556
Speaker 2: up with all those songs and those parts, we were

564
00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:12,836
Speaker 2: in this attic in Portland, and sometimes Isaac and the

565
00:28:12,836 --> 00:28:15,316
Speaker 2: way I started to think about it, it was like, you know,

566
00:28:15,756 --> 00:28:18,476
Speaker 2: two racing car drivers that were on the same team,

567
00:28:18,516 --> 00:28:21,596
Speaker 2: you know, like sometimes that McLaren and stuff the same team,

568
00:28:21,756 --> 00:28:23,876
Speaker 2: and we're both going around this track and then sometimes

569
00:28:23,916 --> 00:28:26,556
Speaker 2: it's like no after you, no after you, after you,

570
00:28:26,676 --> 00:28:30,916
Speaker 2: And occasionally we literally physically crashed into each other because

571
00:28:30,916 --> 00:28:34,156
Speaker 2: we were stood either back to back or next to

572
00:28:34,196 --> 00:28:36,156
Speaker 2: each other in this kind of little space and it

573
00:28:36,276 --> 00:28:38,636
Speaker 2: was really hot, and we're up there and we've been

574
00:28:38,636 --> 00:28:41,116
Speaker 2: out there for hours, and sometimes we'd be a bit

575
00:28:41,196 --> 00:28:44,156
Speaker 2: buzzed and I'm really we really listening to each other

576
00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:45,756
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to Then I'll just jump up the

577
00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:48,396
Speaker 2: octave and then he plays something and I'd go, I'll

578
00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:51,596
Speaker 2: get down there, and literally we sometimes would bang into

579
00:28:51,636 --> 00:28:54,236
Speaker 2: each other, and I thought that was really cool.

580
00:28:54,596 --> 00:28:58,276
Speaker 1: Wow, had you had that level of chemistry before, like

581
00:28:58,356 --> 00:29:00,076
Speaker 1: that level of intense.

582
00:29:00,956 --> 00:29:03,636
Speaker 2: In a different way, yeah, in the but it was

583
00:29:03,676 --> 00:29:06,276
Speaker 2: a different thing with all the bands that I've actually

584
00:29:06,276 --> 00:29:10,236
Speaker 2: been a band member of, I think in a certain

585
00:29:10,316 --> 00:29:13,116
Speaker 2: kind of intensity and a sort of belief in that

586
00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:17,676
Speaker 2: even even without my guitar, and I think I bring

587
00:29:17,716 --> 00:29:20,636
Speaker 2: a sort of belief in the mission because I think

588
00:29:20,636 --> 00:29:21,876
Speaker 2: that's very useful in a band.

589
00:29:22,156 --> 00:29:25,116
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm all in. I think people realize that now.

590
00:29:25,156 --> 00:29:27,116
Speaker 2: It used to frustrate me when I was younger, when

591
00:29:27,156 --> 00:29:30,476
Speaker 2: the Precious report it, because you know, when I was young,

592
00:29:30,476 --> 00:29:32,436
Speaker 2: guys to be a little oh, it looks like I'm

593
00:29:32,476 --> 00:29:32,996
Speaker 2: just bailing.

594
00:29:33,076 --> 00:29:34,876
Speaker 3: I'm leaving this band and I'm leaving that band.

595
00:29:34,876 --> 00:29:37,556
Speaker 2: But after all these years, now I think people realize

596
00:29:37,596 --> 00:29:39,676
Speaker 2: that it's anyone who's interested.

597
00:29:40,396 --> 00:29:42,196
Speaker 3: It's probably the reverse.

598
00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:44,436
Speaker 2: You know, like when I if I join a band,

599
00:29:44,476 --> 00:29:47,756
Speaker 2: I'm really in and my family and my family moved

600
00:29:47,756 --> 00:29:51,356
Speaker 2: to Portland. Or when I was in the cribs, you know,

601
00:29:51,396 --> 00:29:54,316
Speaker 2: I got in the van and I played all the shows,

602
00:29:54,356 --> 00:29:57,156
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't I don't expect any other

603
00:29:57,276 --> 00:30:00,756
Speaker 2: kind of separate treatment. I really get get in because

604
00:30:01,236 --> 00:30:03,236
Speaker 2: it's the way I was when I was fifteen in bands.

605
00:30:03,236 --> 00:30:05,556
Speaker 3: It's no different that it's so cool.

606
00:30:06,196 --> 00:30:08,036
Speaker 1: Was it because of that level of chemistry that you

607
00:30:08,116 --> 00:30:11,316
Speaker 1: realize I'm part of the band? Or was it already

608
00:30:11,356 --> 00:30:13,316
Speaker 1: sort of decided you're sort of in for the ride

609
00:30:13,316 --> 00:30:13,876
Speaker 1: at this point?

610
00:30:14,036 --> 00:30:14,676
Speaker 3: Now? Do you know what?

611
00:30:14,876 --> 00:30:17,436
Speaker 2: The very first night we got together, Isaac and I

612
00:30:17,476 --> 00:30:21,196
Speaker 2: wrote that the song that with that single dashboard became

613
00:30:21,236 --> 00:30:23,796
Speaker 2: the single. And then I woke up really jet like

614
00:30:23,876 --> 00:30:26,516
Speaker 2: that about whatever four o'clock in the morning because I'd

615
00:30:26,556 --> 00:30:28,676
Speaker 2: only got in from England the day before, and.

616
00:30:28,676 --> 00:30:30,316
Speaker 3: I woke up on a can of was like, where

617
00:30:30,396 --> 00:30:32,236
Speaker 3: am I? Oh, I'm in a hotel in Portland.

618
00:30:32,596 --> 00:30:35,036
Speaker 2: Did we just write like a really cool cool song

619
00:30:35,076 --> 00:30:38,636
Speaker 2: with this guy? In fact, we wrote two songs that night.

620
00:30:38,636 --> 00:30:41,396
Speaker 2: We wrote another one called we've got everything. That was

621
00:30:41,436 --> 00:30:45,036
Speaker 2: me and him, and then, frankly, because Maddy's Mouth had

622
00:30:45,036 --> 00:30:48,316
Speaker 2: paid for this English guitar player to come over for

623
00:30:48,556 --> 00:30:50,796
Speaker 2: ten days, they had to kind of get to rehearsal

624
00:30:50,836 --> 00:30:53,716
Speaker 2: for noon because you know, they've paid for my flight.

625
00:30:53,796 --> 00:30:56,276
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like a little bit like, all right, everybody,

626
00:30:56,316 --> 00:30:59,196
Speaker 2: you know, you know the ringers here or whatever. We

627
00:30:59,316 --> 00:31:02,236
Speaker 2: better get we better get here, right. But quite cleverly

628
00:31:02,276 --> 00:31:04,436
Speaker 2: Isaac had done it so a couple of members would join.

629
00:31:04,516 --> 00:31:07,276
Speaker 2: Each day we'd come, Me and the would feel each

630
00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:11,236
Speaker 2: other out. So as the days went on, with each

631
00:31:11,356 --> 00:31:14,356
Speaker 2: couple of people that arrived, and we would jam and

632
00:31:14,356 --> 00:31:16,436
Speaker 2: get a new song, and jam and get a new song.

633
00:31:17,276 --> 00:31:20,836
Speaker 2: Very quickly, I was just like, I like these guys,

634
00:31:21,156 --> 00:31:26,396
Speaker 2: they like me. There's such a positive feeling. Everyone's so enthusiastic.

635
00:31:27,476 --> 00:31:30,316
Speaker 2: Something's really happening here. And I formed a manager and

636
00:31:30,316 --> 00:31:32,636
Speaker 2: I said, listen, I'm suppose to be flying back on

637
00:31:32,756 --> 00:31:34,756
Speaker 2: Wednesday or whatever. I'm going to stay. I'm going to

638
00:31:34,796 --> 00:31:36,756
Speaker 2: stay for a few weeks. And I fell in love

639
00:31:36,756 --> 00:31:40,436
Speaker 2: with Portland the city. This was two thousand and five.

640
00:31:41,036 --> 00:31:44,356
Speaker 2: So to answer your question, by the time you get

641
00:31:44,356 --> 00:31:46,356
Speaker 2: that sort of brotherhood going in a band and you're

642
00:31:46,396 --> 00:31:49,956
Speaker 2: all really excited, and also you're playing together these long hours,

643
00:31:50,716 --> 00:31:52,476
Speaker 2: you know, six seven hours, and you've got a song

644
00:31:52,516 --> 00:31:53,916
Speaker 2: and you want to fix it the next day, and

645
00:31:54,156 --> 00:31:57,476
Speaker 2: you're working on this thing. It was that simple. It

646
00:31:57,556 --> 00:31:59,316
Speaker 2: just would have been really weird to bail.

647
00:32:00,356 --> 00:32:02,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, ten days an out after building net.

648
00:32:03,076 --> 00:32:05,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then that turned into two weeks and then

649
00:32:05,396 --> 00:32:08,236
Speaker 2: three weeks, and then we're all talking excitedly about, Oh man,

650
00:32:08,236 --> 00:32:09,596
Speaker 2: are you're going to be greatful?

651
00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:11,516
Speaker 3: You did some gigs and I was like, wow.

652
00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:14,676
Speaker 2: And the key thing is I really start to i've

653
00:32:14,676 --> 00:32:17,276
Speaker 2: done this with a few projects. I start to really

654
00:32:17,316 --> 00:32:21,276
Speaker 2: care about the songs we're making. I really really care

655
00:32:21,316 --> 00:32:23,956
Speaker 2: about them, even if I haven't written, like in the

656
00:32:23,956 --> 00:32:27,396
Speaker 2: the you know, my relationship with Matt Johnson, I really

657
00:32:27,396 --> 00:32:30,156
Speaker 2: believed in what he was doing and some songs, you know,

658
00:32:30,196 --> 00:32:32,956
Speaker 2: we would make these backing tracks and he'd be like,

659
00:32:33,956 --> 00:32:36,156
Speaker 2: you know, soul searching about the lyrics and this isn't

660
00:32:36,236 --> 00:32:38,236
Speaker 2: right and that isn't right. And I felt like I

661
00:32:38,276 --> 00:32:40,236
Speaker 2: was going through all of that with him, you know.

662
00:32:40,276 --> 00:32:44,276
Speaker 2: And we did this album Dusking in ninety two. But

663
00:32:44,316 --> 00:32:47,116
Speaker 2: that's what I mean about being all in. You know,

664
00:32:47,276 --> 00:32:50,436
Speaker 2: people don't really know that about about me. You know,

665
00:32:51,076 --> 00:32:53,836
Speaker 2: I'm twenty four to seven. If I'm in a band, how.

666
00:32:53,756 --> 00:32:56,476
Speaker 1: Does that translate to when you're when you're leading your

667
00:32:56,516 --> 00:32:56,956
Speaker 1: own group.

668
00:32:57,676 --> 00:33:01,476
Speaker 2: It's very different with my own band because it's a

669
00:33:01,516 --> 00:33:05,076
Speaker 2: different scenario. With my band, they're there, we've had we've

670
00:33:05,116 --> 00:33:08,076
Speaker 2: been together now ten years, the same lineup. We all

671
00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:12,836
Speaker 2: live in the same postcode pretty much, but we all, hey, look,

672
00:33:12,876 --> 00:33:14,796
Speaker 2: we all live within ten miles of each other, which

673
00:33:14,836 --> 00:33:17,396
Speaker 2: is kind of unusual for guys of our age. I've

674
00:33:17,436 --> 00:33:19,676
Speaker 2: been in bands where people live in different cities, in

675
00:33:19,716 --> 00:33:20,556
Speaker 2: different countries.

676
00:33:21,396 --> 00:33:22,796
Speaker 3: That was a very deliberate thing.

677
00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:25,716
Speaker 2: When I came back from Portland, I moved to Manchester,

678
00:33:25,836 --> 00:33:28,676
Speaker 2: not because it's my hometown. I moved here because it's

679
00:33:28,676 --> 00:33:31,276
Speaker 2: a really great place to run a group, and I

680
00:33:31,356 --> 00:33:33,916
Speaker 2: knew these musicians and I wanted for us to all

681
00:33:34,316 --> 00:33:36,476
Speaker 2: I wanted to be at a call a rehearsal for

682
00:33:36,556 --> 00:33:38,236
Speaker 2: tomorrow night and we all be able to get there.

683
00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:41,036
Speaker 2: Someone doesn't have to get on a train or a plane, right. So,

684
00:33:41,876 --> 00:33:44,676
Speaker 2: But why it's different in my band is I write

685
00:33:44,716 --> 00:33:47,756
Speaker 2: songs and then I bring them to the band and

686
00:33:47,796 --> 00:33:52,516
Speaker 2: they learn them, and we learn them up and I

687
00:33:52,596 --> 00:33:54,396
Speaker 2: kind of run it and that's the way they like it,

688
00:33:54,476 --> 00:33:54,596
Speaker 2: you know.

689
00:33:54,716 --> 00:33:56,276
Speaker 3: I mean, we're really very much a group.

690
00:33:56,556 --> 00:34:02,116
Speaker 2: But all the torturous I guess, the torturous process where

691
00:34:02,156 --> 00:34:05,116
Speaker 2: the singer, which is me in this case, is soul

692
00:34:05,196 --> 00:34:08,356
Speaker 2: searching about lyrics and all that. My guys just lead

693
00:34:08,396 --> 00:34:10,196
Speaker 2: me to it and they say, look, give me a

694
00:34:10,196 --> 00:34:11,356
Speaker 2: call when you've got the thing done.

695
00:34:11,356 --> 00:34:17,316
Speaker 3: Man, the bastards. So in a way, I suppose.

696
00:34:17,196 --> 00:34:21,276
Speaker 2: In my experience my band when we first got together,

697
00:34:21,556 --> 00:34:25,236
Speaker 2: the closest that i'd seen. It's a bit It's like

698
00:34:25,316 --> 00:34:27,996
Speaker 2: I have a sort of Beck's band. We kind of

699
00:34:28,956 --> 00:34:31,636
Speaker 2: when we started, we kind of went that's kind of

700
00:34:31,676 --> 00:34:33,916
Speaker 2: the yardstick for the kind of music, like a British

701
00:34:33,996 --> 00:34:36,396
Speaker 2: version of that really oh cool.

702
00:34:36,516 --> 00:34:38,236
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like when you go and

703
00:34:38,276 --> 00:34:38,716
Speaker 3: see Beck.

704
00:34:38,796 --> 00:34:41,876
Speaker 2: It was like really tight and the tempos were usually

705
00:34:41,916 --> 00:34:45,276
Speaker 2: the tempos were up, and the drummers drums were really snappy,

706
00:34:45,396 --> 00:34:48,716
Speaker 2: and he was a leader. But they were also a band,

707
00:34:49,036 --> 00:34:51,316
Speaker 2: you know, but you knew the guy was going to

708
00:34:51,356 --> 00:34:53,956
Speaker 2: have a good band. I kind of decided with my

709
00:34:54,036 --> 00:34:55,876
Speaker 2: band that that's a way I wanted is to be

710
00:34:55,956 --> 00:34:57,156
Speaker 2: really a bit like Beck's band.

711
00:34:57,956 --> 00:35:00,356
Speaker 1: Well, what makes Manchester a great place to sort of

712
00:35:00,396 --> 00:35:01,196
Speaker 1: run a band out of?

713
00:35:02,036 --> 00:35:05,796
Speaker 2: Well, what Seattle was to La in the nineties, Manchester

714
00:35:06,036 --> 00:35:08,076
Speaker 2: is that to London, do you know what I mean?

715
00:35:08,156 --> 00:35:11,996
Speaker 2: So where being a musician's a little easier in Manchester's

716
00:35:11,996 --> 00:35:15,996
Speaker 2: now like well books like Seattle is very there's a

717
00:35:16,036 --> 00:35:21,116
Speaker 2: lot of money in it. It's a second city, so

718
00:35:21,116 --> 00:35:24,236
Speaker 2: so London. If you're a musician, okay, and you've got

719
00:35:24,236 --> 00:35:26,356
Speaker 2: to get rehearsal, it takes you twice a length of

720
00:35:26,396 --> 00:35:28,996
Speaker 2: time to get to rehearsal space as it does in Manchester.

721
00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:31,716
Speaker 2: People are usually am I love London and there all

722
00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:34,636
Speaker 2: the time, but musicians have to live quite a long

723
00:35:34,676 --> 00:35:36,876
Speaker 2: way out of town because it's really expensive to have

724
00:35:36,956 --> 00:35:40,276
Speaker 2: apartments there and all of this sort of stuff. Manchester

725
00:35:40,356 --> 00:35:42,796
Speaker 2: is a little bit more, is a little more like Seattle.

726
00:35:43,556 --> 00:35:45,916
Speaker 2: And you know, like Seattle, it had a big movement.

727
00:35:46,156 --> 00:35:50,116
Speaker 2: It rains a lot like Seattle, so it's an indoor culture.

728
00:35:50,316 --> 00:35:51,836
Speaker 2: There's a whole load of things, you know, just to

729
00:35:53,116 --> 00:35:57,196
Speaker 2: historically make Manchester really great to run to run, well,

730
00:35:57,236 --> 00:35:59,716
Speaker 2: there's a history here as well. So for me in

731
00:35:59,716 --> 00:36:02,796
Speaker 2: my generation, I grew up knowing like, well, the Buzzcocks

732
00:36:02,836 --> 00:36:06,036
Speaker 2: did it, okay, I mean yeah, Buzzcocks, I mean they

733
00:36:06,036 --> 00:36:09,516
Speaker 2: were just like gods to my generation. Buzzcocks proved that

734
00:36:09,556 --> 00:36:12,116
Speaker 2: you didn't have to live in the capital, that you

735
00:36:12,196 --> 00:36:16,036
Speaker 2: could live in the provinces and make great, really cool music.

736
00:36:16,636 --> 00:36:19,836
Speaker 2: Because before that it was just it was all about London, London, London.

737
00:36:19,916 --> 00:36:22,036
Speaker 2: All these bands it was either London and La really

738
00:36:22,076 --> 00:36:25,916
Speaker 2: London La. So you've got a heritage. And then so

739
00:36:25,996 --> 00:36:28,916
Speaker 2: because Buzzcox did it, Smith's raided to do it, and

740
00:36:28,956 --> 00:36:31,636
Speaker 2: the Fall and then because a New Order and Joy

741
00:36:31,676 --> 00:36:33,996
Speaker 2: Division and because the Smiths and Joy Vision and New

742
00:36:34,116 --> 00:36:37,476
Speaker 2: Order did it, then Happy Mondays and Stone Roses knew

743
00:36:37,476 --> 00:36:39,636
Speaker 2: they could do it. And then because they could saw that,

744
00:36:39,796 --> 00:36:42,156
Speaker 2: you know, they did it, then Oasis saw that they

745
00:36:42,156 --> 00:36:44,956
Speaker 2: could do it, and so on. Youngsters know that you

746
00:36:45,076 --> 00:36:47,836
Speaker 2: can be a Manchester band, you know. And so that

747
00:36:47,876 --> 00:36:50,276
Speaker 2: goes back, that goes right back to the seventies now

748
00:36:50,316 --> 00:36:51,036
Speaker 2: with Buzzcocks.

749
00:36:51,396 --> 00:36:52,556
Speaker 3: So having that in.

750
00:36:52,516 --> 00:36:55,956
Speaker 2: The air and knowing that it's a musical town is

751
00:36:55,996 --> 00:36:57,796
Speaker 2: a good place to sort of grow up around when

752
00:36:57,796 --> 00:37:01,476
Speaker 2: you're a fledging musician. But really it goes way back

753
00:37:01,596 --> 00:37:05,556
Speaker 2: historically to like the eighteen sixties eighteen seventies when Manchester

754
00:37:05,716 --> 00:37:08,636
Speaker 2: was literally the industrial capital of the world and the

755
00:37:08,676 --> 00:37:13,396
Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution and all the immigrants came so from really everywhere,

756
00:37:13,476 --> 00:37:16,356
Speaker 2: Eastern Europe and the Caribbean and West Indies and Ireland

757
00:37:16,396 --> 00:37:19,076
Speaker 2: in my case, and all of this business. So there's

758
00:37:19,236 --> 00:37:23,316
Speaker 2: it's a real melting pot Manchester of working class immigrants

759
00:37:23,516 --> 00:37:26,116
Speaker 2: and they all brought their own cultures and their own

760
00:37:26,316 --> 00:37:29,796
Speaker 2: need for entertainment. So a lot of comedians, Jewish comedians

761
00:37:29,836 --> 00:37:32,076
Speaker 2: came out here. A lot of people came from Eastern Europe.

762
00:37:32,876 --> 00:37:35,396
Speaker 2: In my case, you know, a lot of my family

763
00:37:35,956 --> 00:37:37,836
Speaker 2: they moved over in the early sixties and they came

764
00:37:37,876 --> 00:37:40,756
Speaker 2: over to work in construction and building.

765
00:37:40,436 --> 00:37:41,676
Speaker 3: The roads and all of this stuff.

766
00:37:41,676 --> 00:37:45,316
Speaker 2: The Irish and my parents went to all the Irish

767
00:37:45,316 --> 00:37:47,116
Speaker 2: clubs and they would see all the show bands, and

768
00:37:47,876 --> 00:37:51,276
Speaker 2: me and my sister would go sometimes to these places

769
00:37:51,276 --> 00:37:53,156
Speaker 2: in the afternoon where my dad was a booker for

770
00:37:53,196 --> 00:37:55,236
Speaker 2: these bands, and so we grew up around.

771
00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,036
Speaker 1: Your dad booked bands, Yeah he did, you.

772
00:38:00,196 --> 00:38:04,156
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was in the seventies. Me and my

773
00:38:04,156 --> 00:38:04,796
Speaker 3: sister would be there.

774
00:38:04,836 --> 00:38:09,636
Speaker 2: We'd be giving like soda and just loads of those sugar,

775
00:38:10,076 --> 00:38:13,276
Speaker 2: and I'd sit there and I'd watch these cabaret singers

776
00:38:13,316 --> 00:38:15,876
Speaker 2: and they'd be their vocal their microphones would be going

777
00:38:15,916 --> 00:38:19,836
Speaker 2: into a space echo or a tape echo Watkins copycat,

778
00:38:20,636 --> 00:38:23,396
Speaker 2: and there'd be an organ player and a drummer and

779
00:38:23,436 --> 00:38:25,756
Speaker 2: if I was looking at the big guitar player and

780
00:38:25,796 --> 00:38:28,476
Speaker 2: they'd be playing all these kind of seventy songs and

781
00:38:28,556 --> 00:38:31,156
Speaker 2: I thought that was amazing. I just watched these being

782
00:38:31,196 --> 00:38:34,116
Speaker 2: my sister, watched these bands be like, holy shit, this

783
00:38:34,236 --> 00:38:36,916
Speaker 2: is great. And sometimes I'd go, no, they're not too good, Dad,

784
00:38:36,956 --> 00:38:40,396
Speaker 2: Now they're not too good. But just seeing the amplifiers

785
00:38:40,396 --> 00:38:42,396
Speaker 2: and the electric guitars and all that, I would have

786
00:38:42,396 --> 00:38:43,516
Speaker 2: been like nine or ten.

787
00:38:43,716 --> 00:38:46,236
Speaker 3: I thought that was magic. Yeah. Wow.

788
00:38:46,556 --> 00:38:49,956
Speaker 1: So your dad did construction and then somehow got into

789
00:38:49,956 --> 00:38:50,596
Speaker 1: booking bead.

790
00:38:50,836 --> 00:38:53,036
Speaker 2: What was that, Well, that was to do with the

791
00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:55,556
Speaker 2: Catholic That was to do with the Catholic Church because

792
00:38:55,596 --> 00:38:58,716
Speaker 2: he was numb. So he's a working class Irish guys

793
00:38:58,756 --> 00:39:01,316
Speaker 2: are saying he'd be laid pipes, he dug holes in

794
00:39:01,356 --> 00:39:03,116
Speaker 2: the road and my dad, they're very proud of it.

795
00:39:03,796 --> 00:39:07,156
Speaker 2: But to do with the Catholic Church, big Irish thing.

796
00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:10,876
Speaker 2: They would have bands on on a Friday, a Friday

797
00:39:10,876 --> 00:39:13,836
Speaker 2: and a Saturday night, and all these bands would go

798
00:39:13,876 --> 00:39:17,836
Speaker 2: an audition in these bars or these pubs, usually on

799
00:39:17,876 --> 00:39:20,996
Speaker 2: a Sunday afternoon. And all of these used to call

800
00:39:21,036 --> 00:39:24,676
Speaker 2: themselves agents. But all these people who could say, hey, listen,

801
00:39:24,956 --> 00:39:28,236
Speaker 2: come and play at my social club for fifty pounds,

802
00:39:28,916 --> 00:39:31,996
Speaker 2: so they would go an audition for people like my dad, you.

803
00:39:31,956 --> 00:39:33,636
Speaker 1: Know, so amazing.

804
00:39:34,116 --> 00:39:36,236
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean they weren't all that great, but

805
00:39:36,316 --> 00:39:37,316
Speaker 2: to me it was magic.

806
00:39:38,196 --> 00:39:40,516
Speaker 1: There must have been an education onto itself, you know,

807
00:39:40,596 --> 00:39:43,116
Speaker 1: in terms of how to be and on stage, and

808
00:39:43,356 --> 00:39:44,236
Speaker 1: you know, one per.

809
00:39:45,236 --> 00:39:47,036
Speaker 3: One percent what it was was.

810
00:39:47,156 --> 00:39:49,436
Speaker 2: The big thing for me was that I when I

811
00:39:49,476 --> 00:39:52,916
Speaker 2: watched these bands set up their equipment when I was

812
00:39:52,956 --> 00:39:56,236
Speaker 2: about seven or eight at these parties. So this was

813
00:39:56,236 --> 00:39:58,196
Speaker 2: a little early because we used to have these bands

814
00:39:58,236 --> 00:40:01,716
Speaker 2: play at Christena it'd been out and reinforce the cultural stereotype.

815
00:40:01,716 --> 00:40:03,836
Speaker 2: But there was a lot of Christenings and a lot

816
00:40:03,876 --> 00:40:08,316
Speaker 2: of weddings, and my aunties and uncles I used to

817
00:40:08,316 --> 00:40:11,476
Speaker 2: have these bands play. But when I saw these adults

818
00:40:11,916 --> 00:40:14,436
Speaker 2: setting up their equipment, that was when it occurred to

819
00:40:14,476 --> 00:40:18,756
Speaker 2: me that, oh, this is a job. Ah he's nearly

820
00:40:18,796 --> 00:40:21,556
Speaker 2: always guys, these guys, and I see the same people,

821
00:40:21,556 --> 00:40:23,956
Speaker 2: the same guys, and they'd be bringing their amplifiers and

822
00:40:23,996 --> 00:40:26,316
Speaker 2: someone setting the drum kit. I'd be like, Oh, as

823
00:40:26,356 --> 00:40:29,316
Speaker 2: an adult, you can do that. It's not just people

824
00:40:29,316 --> 00:40:31,196
Speaker 2: on the television. Because on the television I just see

825
00:40:31,196 --> 00:40:36,156
Speaker 2: these bands magically appear and looking great, you know, with

826
00:40:36,236 --> 00:40:38,476
Speaker 2: the velvet suits on and all of this. And I'd

827
00:40:38,476 --> 00:40:41,636
Speaker 2: actually see these men setting up their equipment and pulling

828
00:40:41,676 --> 00:40:44,916
Speaker 2: these amplifiers and feeding back and testing, and.

829
00:40:44,836 --> 00:40:48,676
Speaker 3: I was like, where do I sign up for that? Wow,

830
00:40:48,796 --> 00:40:49,956
Speaker 3: that looks like a great job.

831
00:40:50,756 --> 00:40:54,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, and your parents must have been thrilled as much

832
00:40:54,636 --> 00:40:56,396
Speaker 1: as in the music as they are that you started

833
00:40:56,436 --> 00:40:58,956
Speaker 1: thinking that way, right, Yeah, you know.

834
00:40:59,276 --> 00:41:01,516
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people can probably relate to this.

835
00:41:01,596 --> 00:41:05,636
Speaker 2: They were absolutely thrilled until at fifteen I decided or

836
00:41:05,676 --> 00:41:09,796
Speaker 2: fourteen decided that I was gonna go for it and

837
00:41:10,316 --> 00:41:14,676
Speaker 2: not go to school. So now that it's worked out

838
00:41:14,756 --> 00:41:16,876
Speaker 2: and I've actually, you know, it's my day job, they're

839
00:41:16,916 --> 00:41:20,236
Speaker 2: really really proud. Much more than the fact that I'm famous.

840
00:41:20,516 --> 00:41:23,876
Speaker 2: They're just really proud that I'm a full time guitar player. Seriously,

841
00:41:24,516 --> 00:41:27,596
Speaker 2: and if I ever make records where there's not enough

842
00:41:27,636 --> 00:41:30,356
Speaker 2: guitar on it, I kind of get to hear about it.

843
00:41:34,396 --> 00:41:37,876
Speaker 3: And yeah, but you know, mount craft work. No, it's okay,

844
00:41:37,876 --> 00:41:40,396
Speaker 3: I'm playing I'm playing synth on this one. So they

845
00:41:40,476 --> 00:41:41,156
Speaker 3: proud of that.

846
00:41:41,276 --> 00:41:43,596
Speaker 2: But you know, like a lot of teenagers, you know,

847
00:41:43,596 --> 00:41:46,396
Speaker 2: I went through kind of a pretty rebellious and rough patch.

848
00:41:46,996 --> 00:41:49,196
Speaker 2: We went through a kind of a bit of a

849
00:41:49,676 --> 00:41:53,636
Speaker 2: you know, typical sort of rebellious kind of They were

850
00:41:53,636 --> 00:41:57,076
Speaker 2: worried that when I stopped going to school and was

851
00:41:57,156 --> 00:42:00,956
Speaker 2: very obviously you know, taking drugs and spending all my

852
00:42:01,036 --> 00:42:04,796
Speaker 2: time with these reprobates. But it was all really wrapped

853
00:42:04,836 --> 00:42:08,076
Speaker 2: up with the music as well. It wasn't just hedonistic stuff.

854
00:42:08,076 --> 00:42:09,716
Speaker 3: I joined the band. Thing was I joined the band

855
00:42:09,716 --> 00:42:12,476
Speaker 3: when I was fifteen, who have adults.

856
00:42:11,956 --> 00:42:17,716
Speaker 2: Who were very dubious, and my parents kind of said, well,

857
00:42:17,716 --> 00:42:19,556
Speaker 2: it's either that or you have to get out.

858
00:42:19,836 --> 00:42:22,756
Speaker 3: So so I just left harm you know, but just

859
00:42:22,796 --> 00:42:23,076
Speaker 3: got it.

860
00:42:24,516 --> 00:42:26,956
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was a bit contentious, and you know,

861
00:42:27,076 --> 00:42:29,796
Speaker 2: so I was a little wild fifteen sixteen.

862
00:42:29,876 --> 00:42:31,636
Speaker 1: But what was your sister thinking.

863
00:42:32,436 --> 00:42:35,836
Speaker 2: My sister was the mediator. She was the great mediator.

864
00:42:35,956 --> 00:42:37,996
Speaker 2: She's only eleven months younger than me. We were very

865
00:42:38,036 --> 00:42:40,796
Speaker 2: tight and still are, you know. But it's a funny

866
00:42:40,796 --> 00:42:42,756
Speaker 2: one because yeah, they were proud of me being a musician.

867
00:42:42,796 --> 00:42:44,676
Speaker 2: But I think when I actually was like, listen, I'm

868
00:42:44,676 --> 00:42:46,156
Speaker 2: going to go for it, and I'm going to go

869
00:42:46,196 --> 00:42:48,716
Speaker 2: to London and I'm gonna even though you know, I

870
00:42:48,796 --> 00:42:51,116
Speaker 2: had no money whatsoever, and I'm going to join this

871
00:42:51,236 --> 00:42:55,196
Speaker 2: band and these adults. So they were very obviously kind

872
00:42:55,236 --> 00:42:58,716
Speaker 2: of dangerous characters. You know, they're pretty druggy. They sounded

873
00:42:58,756 --> 00:43:03,316
Speaker 2: like a cross between Hawkwind and I guess the Stooges.

874
00:43:03,996 --> 00:43:06,356
Speaker 3: Of course, sister Ray. I think their tracks up on YouTube.

875
00:43:06,636 --> 00:43:08,036
Speaker 3: It's got a song called suicide.

876
00:43:08,076 --> 00:43:10,636
Speaker 2: So because he'd made a rack, they sought me out

877
00:43:10,676 --> 00:43:13,076
Speaker 2: at fifteen, right, and they were like coming being the band,

878
00:43:13,116 --> 00:43:15,196
Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure I said, listen, you are aware

879
00:43:15,236 --> 00:43:18,316
Speaker 2: that I'm I am fifteen or fourteen even I think

880
00:43:19,196 --> 00:43:20,516
Speaker 2: I didn't want it to be a freak show, and

881
00:43:20,516 --> 00:43:22,236
Speaker 2: they were like, hey, listen, now, come on, come on,

882
00:43:22,516 --> 00:43:25,076
Speaker 2: it'll be cool. So I used to go to their

883
00:43:25,236 --> 00:43:27,356
Speaker 2: rehearsal a couple of times a week and it was

884
00:43:27,396 --> 00:43:30,036
Speaker 2: the Red Light area, really kind of rough area in

885
00:43:30,036 --> 00:43:34,076
Speaker 2: Manchester a couple of nights a week, and to subsidize that,

886
00:43:34,716 --> 00:43:38,836
Speaker 2: I used to sell clothes and pals and working clothes shops.

887
00:43:39,076 --> 00:43:41,116
Speaker 2: But anyway I left, I had to leave home. I

888
00:43:41,116 --> 00:43:42,956
Speaker 2: had to leave home to do that because my parents

889
00:43:42,956 --> 00:43:44,796
Speaker 2: didn't approve. And that was a little bit of a

890
00:43:45,036 --> 00:43:46,996
Speaker 2: kind of a rough bit of a look back now,

891
00:43:47,036 --> 00:43:48,556
Speaker 2: and it was a bit of a wild time for me.

892
00:43:48,676 --> 00:43:54,596
Speaker 1: But London and seventy seven at fourteen fifteen, yeah, must

893
00:43:54,636 --> 00:43:55,956
Speaker 1: have been that must have been crazy.

894
00:43:56,636 --> 00:43:58,356
Speaker 2: Well, it was amazing because I went to the I

895
00:43:58,436 --> 00:44:01,436
Speaker 2: went to the Marquee when I was fifteen to see

896
00:44:01,556 --> 00:44:04,036
Speaker 2: a band called Pearl Harbor and the Explosions and they

897
00:44:04,036 --> 00:44:07,316
Speaker 2: had the Stray Cats. Who else was in London at

898
00:44:07,356 --> 00:44:11,596
Speaker 2: the time, the class she was still around. This is

899
00:44:11,596 --> 00:44:16,236
Speaker 2: seventy eight, seventy nine, and I was really into this

900
00:44:16,276 --> 00:44:17,196
Speaker 2: band called the only Ones.

901
00:44:17,236 --> 00:44:21,116
Speaker 3: You know, I sung Another Girl Another Planet. Yeah, So

902
00:44:21,636 --> 00:44:22,156
Speaker 3: I fell.

903
00:44:21,996 --> 00:44:23,876
Speaker 2: In love with this band called the only Ones and

904
00:44:24,036 --> 00:44:27,436
Speaker 2: I followed them around quite a bit and that involved,

905
00:44:27,476 --> 00:44:31,796
Speaker 2: you know, sleeping on train stations. Me and Andy Rogue, who

906
00:44:31,836 --> 00:44:34,396
Speaker 2: was my best palet at the time. I enlisted in

907
00:44:34,436 --> 00:44:37,236
Speaker 2: the Smith, so we Yeah, I used to hang around

908
00:44:37,276 --> 00:44:39,476
Speaker 2: close shops, and that was all to me. That was

909
00:44:39,516 --> 00:44:43,396
Speaker 2: all part of the apprenticeship of being a musician because

910
00:44:43,396 --> 00:44:45,596
Speaker 2: I heard loads of records. As I say, I saw

911
00:44:45,676 --> 00:44:49,516
Speaker 2: Brian Setzer when I was I think fourteen, I saw

912
00:44:49,556 --> 00:44:52,716
Speaker 2: Patty Smith when I was fourteen, I saw the Cramps,

913
00:44:53,356 --> 00:44:56,596
Speaker 2: And to me, all of this stuff has made me

914
00:44:56,676 --> 00:44:59,556
Speaker 2: what I am really seeing all those bands when I

915
00:44:59,596 --> 00:45:00,196
Speaker 2: was really young.

916
00:45:00,836 --> 00:45:02,836
Speaker 1: What'd you think of Brian Setzer at the time.

917
00:45:02,836 --> 00:45:04,356
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it. He was amazing.

918
00:45:04,716 --> 00:45:06,436
Speaker 1: And what were the Straight Cats doing over there?

919
00:45:06,996 --> 00:45:10,276
Speaker 3: They had a hit, They had a I think they were.

920
00:45:10,636 --> 00:45:12,916
Speaker 2: England was where they took off, and me and my

921
00:45:12,956 --> 00:45:15,676
Speaker 2: pals were like, listen, there's this crazy guitar player.

922
00:45:15,876 --> 00:45:18,156
Speaker 3: It's rockabilly band. I saw them.

923
00:45:18,196 --> 00:45:20,076
Speaker 2: I think there was you know, maybe about thirty people

924
00:45:20,076 --> 00:45:22,396
Speaker 2: in the audience in this whole lot held like eight

925
00:45:22,476 --> 00:45:23,196
Speaker 2: hundred people.

926
00:45:23,796 --> 00:45:25,956
Speaker 3: So all of that stuff. You know, I saw Peru Boo,

927
00:45:26,836 --> 00:45:27,836
Speaker 3: and I saw a whole load.

928
00:45:27,676 --> 00:45:29,276
Speaker 2: Of bands I didn't care for because we used to

929
00:45:29,316 --> 00:45:31,796
Speaker 2: sneak into all the venues. So I look back on

930
00:45:31,836 --> 00:45:34,396
Speaker 2: all of that and it can sound romantic, and I

931
00:45:34,396 --> 00:45:36,956
Speaker 2: can make it sound romantic, and that's because it actually was.

932
00:45:37,956 --> 00:45:40,236
Speaker 2: I had no problem with walking back from a venue

933
00:45:40,676 --> 00:45:42,516
Speaker 2: from going to see some band, whether I liked him

934
00:45:42,596 --> 00:45:46,116
Speaker 2: or not, walking back for miles with no train fair

935
00:45:46,636 --> 00:45:50,516
Speaker 2: and it all feeling like it was part of an apprenticeship, you.

936
00:45:50,436 --> 00:45:52,796
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, yeah, all part of the mission.

937
00:45:53,596 --> 00:45:54,116
Speaker 3: Yeah.

938
00:45:54,676 --> 00:45:56,076
Speaker 1: How did you meet Andy Rourke?

939
00:45:56,956 --> 00:45:59,956
Speaker 2: We went to the same school and he was you know,

940
00:45:59,996 --> 00:46:04,356
Speaker 2: it's like with guys in school. I saw a guy

941
00:46:04,556 --> 00:46:08,636
Speaker 2: another guy with long hair, long scruffy hair, and we

942
00:46:08,636 --> 00:46:10,276
Speaker 2: were either going to be friends or we were going

943
00:46:10,356 --> 00:46:15,396
Speaker 2: to fight. We were either like in competition or we

944
00:46:15,396 --> 00:46:18,916
Speaker 2: were comrades, and I think neither of us wanted to fight.

945
00:46:19,596 --> 00:46:22,236
Speaker 2: You know. I I had a button as you kept

946
00:46:22,276 --> 00:46:24,116
Speaker 2: in America at a badge that said that it was

947
00:46:24,116 --> 00:46:25,396
Speaker 2: a Neil Young Tonight's tonight.

948
00:46:25,916 --> 00:46:26,796
Speaker 3: And he walked up.

949
00:46:26,676 --> 00:46:30,396
Speaker 2: To me and he went to night to night and

950
00:46:30,436 --> 00:46:33,316
Speaker 2: he did this really amazing Neil Young impression, and I

951
00:46:33,356 --> 00:46:35,636
Speaker 2: was just really impressed that he knew what tonight's tonight was.

952
00:46:36,276 --> 00:46:37,796
Speaker 3: You do that kind of thing when you were a kid,

953
00:46:37,836 --> 00:46:41,636
Speaker 3: It's so important. I was like, yeah, wow. I mean

954
00:46:41,676 --> 00:46:43,556
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to wear one that had harvest.

955
00:46:43,636 --> 00:46:45,276
Speaker 2: It had to be obviously, it had to be a

956
00:46:45,316 --> 00:46:49,036
Speaker 2: really obscure badge, and he walked up to me and

957
00:46:49,036 --> 00:46:51,356
Speaker 2: he just sang Tonight Tonight, and I thought, Wow, this

958
00:46:51,436 --> 00:46:54,196
Speaker 2: guy's cool, and then we just became friends for life.

959
00:46:54,276 --> 00:46:54,436
Speaker 2: You know.

960
00:46:54,516 --> 00:46:55,756
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. Yeah.

961
00:46:55,836 --> 00:46:57,916
Speaker 1: Did you see Neil on that Tonight's the Night tour

962
00:46:57,956 --> 00:46:58,476
Speaker 1: in London?

963
00:46:58,916 --> 00:46:59,236
Speaker 2: No?

964
00:46:59,236 --> 00:47:00,836
Speaker 3: No, that was I was too young for that.

965
00:47:00,996 --> 00:47:03,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the big amazing story about that, about

966
00:47:03,756 --> 00:47:04,956
Speaker 2: Tonight's to Night that tour.

967
00:47:05,596 --> 00:47:07,756
Speaker 3: So he came over to England.

968
00:47:07,796 --> 00:47:09,676
Speaker 2: He played at the Scarlet, which I might be wrong

969
00:47:09,716 --> 00:47:12,116
Speaker 2: about it might be the Rainbow, but anyway, John Lyden

970
00:47:12,156 --> 00:47:15,116
Speaker 2: told me this. So he comes and the album hadn't

971
00:47:15,156 --> 00:47:18,836
Speaker 2: been released yet, and it's also a real down heavy album,

972
00:47:18,996 --> 00:47:21,956
Speaker 2: as you know, right. Anyway, he comes out and he's

973
00:47:21,996 --> 00:47:25,116
Speaker 2: got scraggly beard and he's drinking loads of tequila and

974
00:47:25,396 --> 00:47:27,396
Speaker 2: the stage and if you look on the inside of

975
00:47:27,396 --> 00:47:30,396
Speaker 2: that record, the stage set is crazy. It's got platform

976
00:47:30,436 --> 00:47:33,236
Speaker 2: boots hanging up and it's got like a it's got

977
00:47:33,316 --> 00:47:37,036
Speaker 2: hub caps all over the stage and a fake palm tree.

978
00:47:37,236 --> 00:47:40,436
Speaker 2: So he comes out and he starts playing this album

979
00:47:40,516 --> 00:47:43,556
Speaker 2: no one's ever heard. So he plays Tonight's Tonight from

980
00:47:43,636 --> 00:47:46,796
Speaker 2: start to finish. It's not even been released yet, and

981
00:47:46,836 --> 00:47:50,036
Speaker 2: it's this real down alcohol kind of thing and he

982
00:47:50,116 --> 00:47:52,156
Speaker 2: plays it and the audience is like, what the hell

983
00:47:52,276 --> 00:47:54,676
Speaker 2: is this? And it's going down kind of badly. He

984
00:47:54,716 --> 00:47:57,236
Speaker 2: goes off and he gets called back on for the

985
00:47:57,356 --> 00:48:00,356
Speaker 2: encore and he says to the audience, now I'm going

986
00:48:00,396 --> 00:48:02,716
Speaker 2: to play one that you've heard before, and he plays

987
00:48:02,756 --> 00:48:03,716
Speaker 2: Tonight's Tonight again.

988
00:48:07,516 --> 00:48:08,196
Speaker 3: That happened.

989
00:48:09,236 --> 00:48:11,316
Speaker 1: I just saw Neil six nights ago. So it was

990
00:48:11,356 --> 00:48:12,996
Speaker 1: just like, this guy does not give a fuck.

991
00:48:14,916 --> 00:48:16,276
Speaker 3: You know, I've never seen him play.

992
00:48:16,916 --> 00:48:20,476
Speaker 2: You've never seen Neil never, man, it's crazy, just for

993
00:48:20,476 --> 00:48:22,036
Speaker 2: some reason or other, just never.

994
00:48:22,436 --> 00:48:27,476
Speaker 1: It's worth it. It's just I've never seen someone so single minded,

995
00:48:28,116 --> 00:48:31,836
Speaker 1: so single minded, you know those I don't want.

996
00:48:31,676 --> 00:48:34,756
Speaker 2: To generalize too much, but I've met a few sixties musicians,

997
00:48:35,236 --> 00:48:38,116
Speaker 2: which obviously you are very very fortunate, Just just a

998
00:48:38,156 --> 00:48:39,276
Speaker 2: few a handful, and.

999
00:48:39,196 --> 00:48:43,916
Speaker 3: They, nearly to a man and woman, really care about playing.

1000
00:48:44,396 --> 00:48:44,836
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

1001
00:48:44,876 --> 00:48:47,116
Speaker 2: I might sound obvious, but the most important thing is

1002
00:48:47,236 --> 00:48:48,756
Speaker 2: if there's a guitar in the room, they will pick

1003
00:48:48,836 --> 00:48:52,276
Speaker 2: it up and they'll play Ronnie Woods like that. Donovan's

1004
00:48:52,356 --> 00:48:55,436
Speaker 2: like that, you know, Paul McCartney's really like that, you know,

1005
00:48:55,596 --> 00:48:58,876
Speaker 2: like those people hats off to him, and I think

1006
00:48:58,876 --> 00:49:02,876
Speaker 2: they're really Ironically, it's kind of come around where some

1007
00:49:02,916 --> 00:49:07,876
Speaker 2: of those older generation musicians they go out and they

1008
00:49:07,876 --> 00:49:10,836
Speaker 2: appear to do it because they're you know, whether it's

1009
00:49:10,876 --> 00:49:11,556
Speaker 2: your thing or not.

1010
00:49:11,636 --> 00:49:13,796
Speaker 3: But you know, the Rod Stewarts and the Who's.

1011
00:49:13,476 --> 00:49:17,956
Speaker 2: And the Jaggers and Springsteen's and all of those sort

1012
00:49:17,996 --> 00:49:20,316
Speaker 2: of people. Johnny Mitchell even now coming back. You know,

1013
00:49:21,036 --> 00:49:24,156
Speaker 2: it's nice to see that those people who could be

1014
00:49:24,276 --> 00:49:26,476
Speaker 2: just sat on their boats or sat under the palm

1015
00:49:26,516 --> 00:49:29,516
Speaker 2: trees or spending all the time with their architects and

1016
00:49:29,556 --> 00:49:31,596
Speaker 2: all of that, they appear to be out there doing

1017
00:49:31,636 --> 00:49:34,076
Speaker 2: it because maybe they know something that we don't, which is,

1018
00:49:34,356 --> 00:49:37,676
Speaker 2: you know, what they're really isn't anything better. Yeah, I've

1019
00:49:38,316 --> 00:49:41,716
Speaker 2: realized how super fortunate I am that I have people's ears.

1020
00:49:41,996 --> 00:49:44,316
Speaker 2: You know, there's an audience as people who are like

1021
00:49:44,396 --> 00:49:47,636
Speaker 2: interested in what I'm up to at the moment. That's

1022
00:49:47,676 --> 00:49:50,756
Speaker 2: such a motivations, you know. But I do like to

1023
00:49:50,796 --> 00:49:53,836
Speaker 2: think that might be bullshit. But it's easy for me

1024
00:49:53,876 --> 00:49:56,356
Speaker 2: to say but that if I didn't, I'd still be

1025
00:49:57,196 --> 00:50:00,876
Speaker 2: playing every day, practicing yeah, you know, just for the

1026
00:50:00,916 --> 00:50:02,796
Speaker 2: love of it, and just to try and get better,

1027
00:50:02,876 --> 00:50:04,756
Speaker 2: try and get better and better in some ways, you know,

1028
00:50:04,796 --> 00:50:06,236
Speaker 2: if that's all you've got to do all day, you

1029
00:50:06,236 --> 00:50:09,836
Speaker 2: get pretty good. But it's horses of course, is you know.

1030
00:50:09,916 --> 00:50:13,036
Speaker 2: I like what bands are. I like what indie rock

1031
00:50:13,716 --> 00:50:15,716
Speaker 2: for one. I don't like pump myself in a box

1032
00:50:15,716 --> 00:50:19,196
Speaker 2: too much, but I like the area of music that

1033
00:50:19,276 --> 00:50:22,116
Speaker 2: I work in. I still feel like that there are

1034
00:50:22,156 --> 00:50:26,396
Speaker 2: surprises in that area of music. Obviously, you and I

1035
00:50:26,436 --> 00:50:28,636
Speaker 2: we can talk about go off on these different tangents,

1036
00:50:28,636 --> 00:50:31,556
Speaker 2: talk about all kinds of different music, you know. But

1037
00:50:31,916 --> 00:50:35,276
Speaker 2: my mission, I think it almost kind of got doubled

1038
00:50:35,316 --> 00:50:35,796
Speaker 2: in a way.

1039
00:50:36,236 --> 00:50:37,956
Speaker 3: When I got the solo band together.

1040
00:50:38,476 --> 00:50:41,196
Speaker 2: I felt like I had this freedom to pull in

1041
00:50:41,276 --> 00:50:46,316
Speaker 2: all my influences that really goes back to people like Sparks.

1042
00:50:47,196 --> 00:50:49,756
Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing, I think, because what you love

1043
00:50:50,036 --> 00:50:54,076
Speaker 2: is such a subjective thing, obviously, and I think you

1044
00:50:54,116 --> 00:50:56,036
Speaker 2: get to a point in your life where you kind

1045
00:50:56,036 --> 00:51:01,516
Speaker 2: of go back to as an influence. You really do

1046
00:51:01,756 --> 00:51:05,676
Speaker 2: draw on those things that were your first loves. I

1047
00:51:05,716 --> 00:51:08,996
Speaker 2: love being in the modern world. I'm not partiking nostalgic person,

1048
00:51:09,476 --> 00:51:13,036
Speaker 2: but the area of music that I'm working in, guitar music,

1049
00:51:13,116 --> 00:51:16,436
Speaker 2: I guess melodic that I suppose, you know, I don't

1050
00:51:16,436 --> 00:51:18,876
Speaker 2: really use terms like art rock, but you know, I'm

1051
00:51:18,876 --> 00:51:21,076
Speaker 2: fine with being called an indie musician. It all sounds

1052
00:51:21,116 --> 00:51:22,916
Speaker 2: like to me. It's all what used to be called

1053
00:51:22,996 --> 00:51:25,356
Speaker 2: rock music. Anyway, for the longest time. I used to

1054
00:51:25,396 --> 00:51:27,836
Speaker 2: call myself a pop musician for the longer time, and

1055
00:51:27,916 --> 00:51:31,636
Speaker 2: still until I started really recognizing that pop music is

1056
00:51:31,676 --> 00:51:35,116
Speaker 2: something very very different now, and I think that's post

1057
00:51:35,236 --> 00:51:37,716
Speaker 2: rave and to do with the technology and all this

1058
00:51:37,756 --> 00:51:40,476
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. I'm not gonna make past judgment on it.

1059
00:51:40,836 --> 00:51:43,916
Speaker 2: But when I started out at eleven or twelve and

1060
00:51:44,516 --> 00:51:50,756
Speaker 2: studying these records t Rex, the Sweet Sparks that luckily

1061
00:51:50,796 --> 00:51:55,596
Speaker 2: for me, had amazing guitar playing on it. Who knows

1062
00:51:55,636 --> 00:51:58,156
Speaker 2: what in England we call glam rock. In America, glam

1063
00:51:58,236 --> 00:52:00,036
Speaker 2: rock was a different thing. Was a little bit to

1064
00:52:00,596 --> 00:52:02,516
Speaker 2: do with sunset and the hair bands and all that.

1065
00:52:02,756 --> 00:52:03,956
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.

1066
00:52:03,996 --> 00:52:06,796
Speaker 2: But in England glam rock was very definitely nineteen seventy two,

1067
00:52:06,916 --> 00:52:09,916
Speaker 2: seventy three, seventy four, Davy Bowie, you know, the gene

1068
00:52:09,916 --> 00:52:11,716
Speaker 2: Genie and all that stuff, which you know, you know,

1069
00:52:12,676 --> 00:52:18,156
Speaker 2: those forty fives were amazing education for me. And as

1070
00:52:18,156 --> 00:52:21,556
Speaker 2: I say, it's probably subjective because that was when this

1071
00:52:21,636 --> 00:52:25,276
Speaker 2: stuff really really hit me. But I still think that

1072
00:52:25,356 --> 00:52:30,396
Speaker 2: what I do is working within that area where it's

1073
00:52:30,396 --> 00:52:33,276
Speaker 2: for me. The best thing is that it's concise. It

1074
00:52:33,316 --> 00:52:35,156
Speaker 2: doesn't have to go on for seven or eight minutes

1075
00:52:35,876 --> 00:52:39,516
Speaker 2: unless I'm making a point, and there's guitar hooks in it,

1076
00:52:40,116 --> 00:52:43,356
Speaker 2: and the tempos are up, and yeah, it makes you, It

1077
00:52:43,716 --> 00:52:46,756
Speaker 2: gets a blood racing a little bit with some quite

1078
00:52:47,236 --> 00:52:50,716
Speaker 2: sort of interesting, clever, if possible lyrics that fit.

1079
00:52:51,076 --> 00:52:54,396
Speaker 1: That's the part musician in you. That that's where that

1080
00:52:54,556 --> 00:52:58,076
Speaker 1: is located. And that's what probably i'd imagine, like probably

1081
00:52:58,076 --> 00:52:59,956
Speaker 1: how you fell in love with Chic in the seventies.

1082
00:53:00,156 --> 00:53:02,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well I think with sik it was to

1083
00:53:03,036 --> 00:53:06,276
Speaker 2: do with the harmonic progressions a lot. I always say this,

1084
00:53:06,316 --> 00:53:08,716
Speaker 2: but with so much is made with now Rogers, everyone

1085
00:53:08,756 --> 00:53:11,756
Speaker 2: obviously thinks, even if they're not musicians, what they're thinking

1086
00:53:11,756 --> 00:53:13,036
Speaker 2: of is his right hand.

1087
00:53:15,196 --> 00:53:16,276
Speaker 3: Well, what I'm really.

1088
00:53:15,996 --> 00:53:18,876
Speaker 2: Fell in love with was his left hand. These beautiful

1089
00:53:19,236 --> 00:53:21,956
Speaker 2: McCoy tyner. The first time I ever met now Rogers,

1090
00:53:21,996 --> 00:53:24,516
Speaker 2: first question asked was do you really like McCoy tyner

1091
00:53:25,516 --> 00:53:31,756
Speaker 2: because the core progression's so beautiful, so pretty, so emotional,

1092
00:53:32,076 --> 00:53:34,916
Speaker 2: you know, I want your love and lost in music

1093
00:53:35,076 --> 00:53:38,836
Speaker 2: and oh man, So that's why I like that stuff particularly.

1094
00:53:38,876 --> 00:53:41,996
Speaker 2: It wasn't just a groove, it was those beautiful harmonic changes.

1095
00:53:42,676 --> 00:53:46,236
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm a real melody freak, and I'll try

1096
00:53:46,236 --> 00:53:50,116
Speaker 2: and squeeze those hooks in too, excite in kind of

1097
00:53:50,676 --> 00:53:55,036
Speaker 2: punchy guitar music wherever I can, especially if it's my

1098
00:53:55,036 --> 00:53:55,556
Speaker 2: own stuff.

1099
00:53:56,716 --> 00:53:58,636
Speaker 1: We're going to take another quick break and then come

1100
00:53:58,676 --> 00:54:01,756
Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

1101
00:54:05,956 --> 00:54:09,356
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

1102
00:54:10,156 --> 00:54:13,116
Speaker 1: Where did the riff for Spirit, Power and Soul? Can

1103
00:54:13,156 --> 00:54:14,796
Speaker 1: you figure out how you arrived at that riff?

1104
00:54:15,036 --> 00:54:15,596
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1105
00:54:15,636 --> 00:54:19,596
Speaker 2: What I did was months before, when I was on

1106
00:54:20,076 --> 00:54:23,156
Speaker 2: the road. We had this third album called called The Comet.

1107
00:54:23,796 --> 00:54:27,116
Speaker 2: I started to think, the next single off the next

1108
00:54:27,156 --> 00:54:29,916
Speaker 2: album should be like an electro banger. I kind of

1109
00:54:30,116 --> 00:54:33,956
Speaker 2: did conceptualize it hand on heart. Now, Hey, I wish

1110
00:54:33,996 --> 00:54:36,276
Speaker 2: I could do that with every track, but the smith's

1111
00:54:36,356 --> 00:54:38,836
Speaker 2: used to do that. Sometimes we'd go because I was

1112
00:54:39,356 --> 00:54:44,676
Speaker 2: given a title, often not always, but sometimes say sometimes.

1113
00:54:44,996 --> 00:54:49,196
Speaker 2: I was given a title like Panic, and I was like, oh,

1114
00:54:49,876 --> 00:54:53,036
Speaker 2: what does that conjure up? Or meet his murder? And

1115
00:54:53,116 --> 00:54:55,956
Speaker 2: we meet his murder. I set myself the task of

1116
00:54:55,996 --> 00:54:59,156
Speaker 2: writing a horror score for animals because.

1117
00:54:58,916 --> 00:54:59,676
Speaker 3: I had the title.

1118
00:55:00,356 --> 00:55:03,036
Speaker 2: So I quite enjoy hey listen as I say. I

1119
00:55:03,036 --> 00:55:04,756
Speaker 2: wish I could do it more often. But I had

1120
00:55:04,796 --> 00:55:07,076
Speaker 2: the idea for Spirit, Power and Soul months before, and

1121
00:55:07,116 --> 00:55:12,116
Speaker 2: I went, oh, man, this band the next album, the

1122
00:55:12,196 --> 00:55:13,996
Speaker 2: first track on it would be really good if I

1123
00:55:13,996 --> 00:55:16,996
Speaker 2: can write an electro banger. So I started with a

1124
00:55:17,036 --> 00:55:19,636
Speaker 2: drum machine. I borrowed the drum machine off Steve Morris

1125
00:55:19,636 --> 00:55:22,196
Speaker 2: from New Order, which actually I've got to give it

1126
00:55:22,276 --> 00:55:26,716
Speaker 2: him back. And yeah, I thought, if I'm going to borrow,

1127
00:55:27,036 --> 00:55:29,956
Speaker 2: if I'm gonna borrow a drum machine, who better to

1128
00:55:29,996 --> 00:55:33,796
Speaker 2: borrow one off than Steve Great. So I got in

1129
00:55:33,876 --> 00:55:35,756
Speaker 2: a programming, even though I could have done it much

1130
00:55:35,796 --> 00:55:37,956
Speaker 2: quicker on the laptop, but that wasn't the point. I

1131
00:55:37,996 --> 00:55:40,556
Speaker 2: wanted to do the process, and I was kind of going,

1132
00:55:40,556 --> 00:55:42,356
Speaker 2: all right, we'll do something that's.

1133
00:55:42,636 --> 00:55:43,596
Speaker 3: Like Cabaret vaultare.

1134
00:55:43,916 --> 00:55:49,276
Speaker 2: So I had the beat anyway, I was playing along

1135
00:55:49,316 --> 00:55:51,516
Speaker 2: with that for like four days, and I wrote this

1136
00:55:51,556 --> 00:55:53,716
Speaker 2: song that wasn't very good, and then I had to

1137
00:55:53,756 --> 00:55:55,836
Speaker 2: just kind of scrap it and apply myself again. And

1138
00:55:55,876 --> 00:55:58,836
Speaker 2: I just wrote it and wrote it and wrote it

1139
00:55:58,916 --> 00:56:02,156
Speaker 2: and wrote it. I went in the studio from ten

1140
00:56:02,276 --> 00:56:06,156
Speaker 2: so five or six for five days and I would

1141
00:56:06,196 --> 00:56:08,916
Speaker 2: sing melody and melody and this is too clever.

1142
00:56:08,956 --> 00:56:09,956
Speaker 3: This, it's to melodic.

1143
00:56:10,036 --> 00:56:13,076
Speaker 2: This is I just knew what I wanted, but I

1144
00:56:13,396 --> 00:56:15,516
Speaker 2: knew what it would be when I found it. Hey,

1145
00:56:15,796 --> 00:56:18,036
Speaker 2: I'm talking a little bit like I've written a day

1146
00:56:18,076 --> 00:56:20,036
Speaker 2: in the life. I know it's but that's what I

1147
00:56:20,036 --> 00:56:20,436
Speaker 2: had to do.

1148
00:56:20,476 --> 00:56:22,996
Speaker 1: It's a great song, man, it's a great.

1149
00:56:22,756 --> 00:56:23,716
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Well.

1150
00:56:23,716 --> 00:56:26,316
Speaker 2: I appreciate that because I worked my ass off doing it.

1151
00:56:26,876 --> 00:56:29,796
Speaker 2: I just kept writing these vocal melodies that were too melodic,

1152
00:56:30,636 --> 00:56:34,316
Speaker 2: so it became a real craft. The interesting thing about

1153
00:56:34,356 --> 00:56:38,116
Speaker 2: that song is that sometimes I have ideas, and I've

1154
00:56:38,316 --> 00:56:41,516
Speaker 2: had these ideas from being a kid, where I have

1155
00:56:41,596 --> 00:56:44,236
Speaker 2: an idea for what would be a good song away

1156
00:56:44,236 --> 00:56:47,356
Speaker 2: from the guitar and away from the studio, and I

1157
00:56:47,396 --> 00:56:50,196
Speaker 2: have it in my mind, and then I set about

1158
00:56:50,236 --> 00:56:53,796
Speaker 2: trying to do it, and when it works out, it's fantastic.

1159
00:56:54,156 --> 00:56:56,676
Speaker 1: It's a wild way to come to a song, like

1160
00:56:56,756 --> 00:56:59,396
Speaker 1: you're not even in the realm of music, you're away

1161
00:56:59,396 --> 00:57:02,116
Speaker 1: from it. Do you think that would be the worst

1162
00:57:02,116 --> 00:57:04,636
Speaker 1: song potentially that it's like this thing where you're like

1163
00:57:04,716 --> 00:57:07,556
Speaker 1: conceptualizing it before you even have the chance to you know.

1164
00:57:07,796 --> 00:57:10,356
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm really glad it worked out. But I

1165
00:57:10,396 --> 00:57:14,516
Speaker 2: was determined. And to be fair, I think when you're

1166
00:57:14,516 --> 00:57:18,236
Speaker 2: talking about skills, say, one of the skills that I've

1167
00:57:18,316 --> 00:57:21,516
Speaker 2: learned that I didn't have years ago was I learned

1168
00:57:21,836 --> 00:57:26,396
Speaker 2: this perseverance from Bernard Sumner from New Order. Working with

1169
00:57:26,436 --> 00:57:29,956
Speaker 2: Bernard for nine years in Electronic If he had an

1170
00:57:29,996 --> 00:57:33,436
Speaker 2: idea for a song and he believed in it, he

1171
00:57:33,476 --> 00:57:36,236
Speaker 2: would not let that thing go away. He would keep

1172
00:57:36,236 --> 00:57:39,676
Speaker 2: coming back to it until he was right. So that

1173
00:57:39,796 --> 00:57:41,836
Speaker 2: was a skill that I've learned along the way from

1174
00:57:41,876 --> 00:57:44,636
Speaker 2: somebody else. It was it wasn't to do with, you know,

1175
00:57:44,756 --> 00:57:48,796
Speaker 2: diatonic scales, what to do with, you know, music theory.

1176
00:57:48,996 --> 00:57:52,676
Speaker 2: Was to do with application process, and I've learned on

1177
00:57:52,716 --> 00:57:56,836
Speaker 2: that subject. It's been I could go through all the

1178
00:57:56,836 --> 00:57:59,276
Speaker 2: people I've worked with and tell you what I've learned

1179
00:57:59,276 --> 00:58:03,156
Speaker 2: from him. Now I think about it, I might be

1180
00:58:03,156 --> 00:58:06,396
Speaker 2: getting a little bit sentimental in my old age, but

1181
00:58:07,076 --> 00:58:12,796
Speaker 2: Isaac Brock, Pritty High and everyone, everyone, really I learned

1182
00:58:12,836 --> 00:58:14,876
Speaker 2: something from all of them.

1183
00:58:15,156 --> 00:58:16,796
Speaker 1: You know what about from Chrissy.

1184
00:58:17,516 --> 00:58:19,076
Speaker 3: Chrissy ay listen?

1185
00:58:19,156 --> 00:58:21,036
Speaker 2: I played with the last week at Glastonbury, you know,

1186
00:58:21,276 --> 00:58:25,156
Speaker 2: and that was amazing rejoining playing those songs after thirty years,

1187
00:58:25,236 --> 00:58:28,556
Speaker 2: you know, because I haven't played them since nineteen eighty whatever.

1188
00:58:29,396 --> 00:58:33,316
Speaker 2: So Chrissy, well, I learned that there's a lot when

1189
00:58:33,356 --> 00:58:35,916
Speaker 2: you walk on stage, even though I don't want to

1190
00:58:35,956 --> 00:58:39,116
Speaker 2: embarrass it. She mightn't even realize this, but when you

1191
00:58:39,196 --> 00:58:41,756
Speaker 2: walk on stage as the front man, you give off

1192
00:58:41,796 --> 00:58:43,196
Speaker 2: the vibe to the rest of.

1193
00:58:43,156 --> 00:58:46,596
Speaker 3: The band that no matter what happens, you've got this.

1194
00:58:48,076 --> 00:58:50,036
Speaker 2: And I picked up because I was very young when

1195
00:58:50,076 --> 00:58:51,916
Speaker 2: I was working with Christy was twenty four and we

1196
00:58:51,916 --> 00:58:54,516
Speaker 2: were doing these we were playing sometimes we played to

1197
00:58:54,556 --> 00:58:57,636
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people opening for you too, and certainly

1198
00:58:57,716 --> 00:59:00,676
Speaker 2: seventy thousand people most nights on the Joshua Tree tour.

1199
00:59:00,916 --> 00:59:02,916
Speaker 3: And I'm telling you, I was terrified.

1200
00:59:03,396 --> 00:59:05,756
Speaker 2: But when I walked behind her on stage, I was like,

1201
00:59:06,516 --> 00:59:07,636
Speaker 2: It's cool, she's got this.

1202
00:59:09,156 --> 00:59:10,956
Speaker 3: I try and be that for my band.

1203
00:59:11,396 --> 00:59:14,116
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also you know things like in rehearsal when

1204
00:59:14,116 --> 00:59:17,036
Speaker 2: you wear that one, two, three four, when you start singing,

1205
00:59:17,196 --> 00:59:19,836
Speaker 2: you sing like you're on stage. None of this like

1206
00:59:19,876 --> 00:59:21,916
Speaker 2: looking at your phone or looking up at the roof

1207
00:59:22,036 --> 00:59:24,956
Speaker 2: and or you know, being distracted when for those four

1208
00:59:24,996 --> 00:59:26,436
Speaker 2: minutes that you're singing.

1209
00:59:26,516 --> 00:59:30,316
Speaker 3: You really are in it. Yeah. I learned a lot

1210
00:59:30,316 --> 00:59:30,836
Speaker 3: from Christy.

1211
00:59:30,916 --> 00:59:34,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's quite dedicated as a in her as her

1212
00:59:34,236 --> 00:59:35,796
Speaker 1: role as front person.

1213
00:59:35,756 --> 00:59:38,716
Speaker 2: In a natural way, in a natural way because a

1214
00:59:38,756 --> 00:59:40,436
Speaker 2: big part of her as well is that she's a

1215
00:59:40,436 --> 00:59:44,036
Speaker 2: punk rocker and she's not too referential the business of

1216
00:59:44,076 --> 00:59:47,796
Speaker 2: being in a band. She honors that she thinks being

1217
00:59:47,836 --> 00:59:50,436
Speaker 2: in a band is a special thing, and especially her

1218
00:59:50,436 --> 00:59:53,036
Speaker 2: relationship with a guitar player that goes right back to

1219
00:59:53,156 --> 00:59:54,996
Speaker 2: Jimmy Scott, who I was a big fan of when

1220
00:59:54,996 --> 00:59:57,036
Speaker 2: I was a kid, which you can really hear in

1221
00:59:57,116 --> 00:59:57,756
Speaker 2: my plane, you know.

1222
00:59:58,316 --> 01:00:01,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of like, you know, you're sort of thinking

1223
01:00:01,196 --> 01:00:04,396
Speaker 1: of yourself as a pop musician in a weird way.

1224
01:00:04,436 --> 01:00:07,396
Speaker 1: On paper could look like a strange pairing, but I

1225
01:00:07,396 --> 01:00:10,236
Speaker 1: think having spoken to you now, it seems to make

1226
01:00:10,276 --> 01:00:13,316
Speaker 1: a ton of sense. You and Hans Zimmer and Pharrell

1227
01:00:14,236 --> 01:00:16,676
Speaker 1: getting together, yeah, about a decade ago to work on

1228
01:00:16,716 --> 01:00:18,076
Speaker 1: some of that Spider Man stuff.

1229
01:00:18,476 --> 01:00:18,676
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1230
01:00:18,996 --> 01:00:22,036
Speaker 2: You know. Well, I've got to say this is classic

1231
01:00:22,076 --> 01:00:25,916
Speaker 2: hands because Hans is a real lateral thinker. He really

1232
01:00:25,956 --> 01:00:30,236
Speaker 2: thinks outside of the box. And he genuinely told me

1233
01:00:30,276 --> 01:00:33,396
Speaker 2: this so many times now that I really think it's true.

1234
01:00:33,916 --> 01:00:36,076
Speaker 2: So when me and Pharrell first got in a room

1235
01:00:36,116 --> 01:00:38,276
Speaker 2: together and we wrote two songs on that that thing,

1236
01:00:38,516 --> 01:00:41,916
Speaker 2: just me and him, Hans loved telling this story that

1237
01:00:41,996 --> 01:00:45,156
Speaker 2: he was watching the guy who wrote literally, watching the

1238
01:00:45,196 --> 01:00:48,156
Speaker 2: guy who wrote Heaven Knows I'm Miserable now writing a

1239
01:00:48,196 --> 01:00:49,836
Speaker 2: song with the guy who wrote Happy.

1240
01:00:50,036 --> 01:00:51,796
Speaker 3: He thought that was hilarious.

1241
01:00:52,396 --> 01:00:57,236
Speaker 2: And so we got offered that movie, The Amazing Spider

1242
01:00:57,316 --> 01:01:00,236
Speaker 2: Man three, and he and I got together and he

1243
01:01:00,356 --> 01:01:02,676
Speaker 2: was like, well, what comes to mind what you're thinking.

1244
01:01:02,796 --> 01:01:05,676
Speaker 2: I don't really know the franchise very much, but I

1245
01:01:05,716 --> 01:01:06,476
Speaker 2: had this idea.

1246
01:01:06,516 --> 01:01:09,516
Speaker 3: I saw the opening scene, so a real rough it.

1247
01:01:09,676 --> 01:01:11,756
Speaker 2: And it was New York and it was like, there's

1248
01:01:11,876 --> 01:01:14,516
Speaker 2: a lot of action and everything, and I said, you

1249
01:01:14,596 --> 01:01:16,476
Speaker 2: know what it should it should be like the Who.

1250
01:01:16,916 --> 01:01:18,676
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking classic rock, but I was just thinking

1251
01:01:18,716 --> 01:01:20,196
Speaker 2: it should be like won't get fooled again.

1252
01:01:20,236 --> 01:01:21,756
Speaker 3: It should be like, if you're asking me as a.

1253
01:01:21,756 --> 01:01:25,516
Speaker 2: Guitar player power chords, it's whoa this big kind of

1254
01:01:25,556 --> 01:01:28,676
Speaker 2: explosive thing. I never think in terms of metal. It's

1255
01:01:28,716 --> 01:01:31,796
Speaker 2: just not my bag. But yeah, if I think explosive,

1256
01:01:31,876 --> 01:01:34,876
Speaker 2: I think of like the Who or whatever. And he

1257
01:01:34,956 --> 01:01:37,436
Speaker 2: really liked that idea, and then from that he jumped

1258
01:01:37,436 --> 01:01:40,196
Speaker 2: then to like having a band in a room so

1259
01:01:40,316 --> 01:01:44,356
Speaker 2: straight away because Junkie Excel was he had a studio

1260
01:01:44,756 --> 01:01:46,916
Speaker 2: in the same building that we were in, and he

1261
01:01:46,996 --> 01:01:49,716
Speaker 2: was brilliant like, well listen, we'll get junky Excel on bass.

1262
01:01:50,156 --> 01:01:53,556
Speaker 3: And then we had this idea about this explosive pop book.

1263
01:01:54,036 --> 01:01:58,276
Speaker 2: Hands then was like, who's the most melodic thinking that

1264
01:01:58,316 --> 01:02:00,916
Speaker 2: you can think of? Who's like, who's amazing act coming

1265
01:02:00,956 --> 01:02:03,556
Speaker 2: up with melodies? And he just let's just ask for real,

1266
01:02:03,996 --> 01:02:07,276
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, I was like, well, this

1267
01:02:07,276 --> 01:02:11,636
Speaker 2: would be interesting. I mean, I'm not I'm sure I'm

1268
01:02:11,676 --> 01:02:14,716
Speaker 2: not the first person to say this at all. But

1269
01:02:15,236 --> 01:02:18,476
Speaker 2: when for All comes in the room, he's like, where's

1270
01:02:18,516 --> 01:02:20,076
Speaker 2: the tune? Let me write a tune.

1271
01:02:20,276 --> 01:02:21,476
Speaker 3: He's amazing.

1272
01:02:21,756 --> 01:02:24,076
Speaker 2: We were putting the song down. I don't I'm sure

1273
01:02:24,076 --> 01:02:26,476
Speaker 2: he won't mind me telling this story. I've been for

1274
01:02:26,476 --> 01:02:29,076
Speaker 2: a run in the morning and I had this idea

1275
01:02:29,396 --> 01:02:32,396
Speaker 2: that we needed a romantic song. We need like the

1276
01:02:32,436 --> 01:02:34,396
Speaker 2: love the love song in this And I just happened

1277
01:02:34,396 --> 01:02:36,676
Speaker 2: to be out running in the morning and I heard

1278
01:02:36,716 --> 01:02:38,516
Speaker 2: that this this tune in my head. I was like, oh,

1279
01:02:38,596 --> 01:02:40,796
Speaker 2: that would be good, so I'll get I was enthusiastic

1280
01:02:40,836 --> 01:02:43,156
Speaker 2: to get in the studio and put this tune down.

1281
01:02:44,316 --> 01:02:45,556
Speaker 3: So I got in the studio.

1282
01:02:45,276 --> 01:02:48,076
Speaker 2: Kind of early, and we're in this big room and

1283
01:02:48,116 --> 01:02:50,556
Speaker 2: I started laying this down and there's some of the musicians,

1284
01:02:50,596 --> 01:02:53,596
Speaker 2: a couple of string players piano, and Hans was playing piano,

1285
01:02:54,556 --> 01:02:57,476
Speaker 2: and fell wasn't there. And we started putting this running

1286
01:02:57,476 --> 01:02:59,196
Speaker 2: the chords down and I've got this tune and we're

1287
01:02:59,236 --> 01:03:01,596
Speaker 2: putting it down and we're recording it. And about the

1288
01:03:01,636 --> 01:03:04,796
Speaker 2: second time I get through this tune for our walks

1289
01:03:04,796 --> 01:03:07,836
Speaker 2: in and uh. We're halfway through the tune and he's

1290
01:03:07,876 --> 01:03:09,836
Speaker 2: kind of trying to be quiet and make a noise

1291
01:03:09,916 --> 01:03:12,716
Speaker 2: and he's got he picks the microphone up and when

1292
01:03:12,796 --> 01:03:15,356
Speaker 2: we finished doing this quick run through, we've got to

1293
01:03:15,356 --> 01:03:18,356
Speaker 2: start a third one for some technical reason, and he's

1294
01:03:18,436 --> 01:03:21,756
Speaker 2: asking Steve Lipson to stop the track. I want to sing,

1295
01:03:22,396 --> 01:03:24,396
Speaker 2: and Hans goes, can we just put the track down?

1296
01:03:24,436 --> 01:03:25,116
Speaker 3: He goes, I want to.

1297
01:03:25,396 --> 01:03:28,756
Speaker 2: Now, My point in telling this story is that most

1298
01:03:28,836 --> 01:03:32,196
Speaker 2: musicians know that is the opposite of what happens. What

1299
01:03:32,436 --> 01:03:35,276
Speaker 2: usually happens is you have a tune and you put

1300
01:03:35,276 --> 01:03:38,036
Speaker 2: the tune down and you have to wait for days

1301
01:03:38,596 --> 01:03:42,476
Speaker 2: for the singer to sing. For I was like, plug

1302
01:03:42,556 --> 01:03:46,396
Speaker 2: this in, plug this in, let me sing. It was brilliant,

1303
01:03:46,556 --> 01:03:49,756
Speaker 2: and he's in the control room. He's tapping on his

1304
01:03:49,796 --> 01:03:52,236
Speaker 2: phone all the time, tapping on his phone writing lyrics.

1305
01:03:52,876 --> 01:03:57,236
Speaker 2: So my experience with with with for Alpha on that

1306
01:03:57,316 --> 01:04:01,996
Speaker 2: movie was he was He's exactly what I thought.

1307
01:04:02,036 --> 01:04:05,716
Speaker 3: He was. Just music just oozes out the guy. I

1308
01:04:05,756 --> 01:04:07,636
Speaker 3: love it. Yeah, So that was this funny thing.

1309
01:04:07,836 --> 01:04:10,636
Speaker 2: But when when I've been asked a couple of times

1310
01:04:10,876 --> 01:04:15,596
Speaker 2: about collaboration, right, I use that that example of writing

1311
01:04:15,596 --> 01:04:18,956
Speaker 2: with Pharrell as an illustration as to what happens in

1312
01:04:18,996 --> 01:04:23,116
Speaker 2: the collaborative process, because on the face of it, what

1313
01:04:23,236 --> 01:04:25,996
Speaker 2: I say is it's like when you've got two musicians

1314
01:04:25,996 --> 01:04:28,996
Speaker 2: working together. On the face of it, look, I'm an

1315
01:04:28,996 --> 01:04:32,796
Speaker 2: indie rock musician from Manchester in the eighties and then

1316
01:04:32,996 --> 01:04:36,716
Speaker 2: Pharrell is a R and B, you know, hip hop

1317
01:04:37,356 --> 01:04:41,316
Speaker 2: pop musician from America. But I always say it's a

1318
01:04:41,316 --> 01:04:44,316
Speaker 2: bit like you're getting a rowbot and the two ears

1319
01:04:44,796 --> 01:04:47,956
Speaker 2: are rowing in the same direction, and the horizon is

1320
01:04:47,996 --> 01:04:52,156
Speaker 2: the speakers. I think the point is is that music

1321
01:04:52,316 --> 01:04:55,076
Speaker 2: and collaboration and when you're trying to create something with someone,

1322
01:04:55,116 --> 01:04:57,836
Speaker 2: even if you don't know them very well, it transcends

1323
01:04:58,236 --> 01:05:04,276
Speaker 2: your being from different backgrounds, completely transcends it. Yeah, music's

1324
01:05:04,316 --> 01:05:06,556
Speaker 2: amazing for that, and collaboration is amazing.

1325
01:05:06,756 --> 01:05:09,356
Speaker 3: You're both trying to just come up with a really

1326
01:05:09,356 --> 01:05:09,996
Speaker 3: good middle eight.

1327
01:05:10,916 --> 01:05:14,116
Speaker 2: And because of that, because people on the outside will go, oh, yeah,

1328
01:05:14,156 --> 01:05:16,636
Speaker 2: you have to check your egos at the door or well,

1329
01:05:16,676 --> 01:05:20,676
Speaker 2: I mean that's a given because people who are serious,

1330
01:05:21,276 --> 01:05:23,556
Speaker 2: they just want to make something great and it's not

1331
01:05:23,596 --> 01:05:27,276
Speaker 2: even a question of egos, you know.

1332
01:05:27,356 --> 01:05:29,036
Speaker 3: I mean the people I've worked with, the.

1333
01:05:29,036 --> 01:05:31,756
Speaker 2: Greats, you know they I'm sure they have an ego

1334
01:05:31,796 --> 01:05:34,276
Speaker 2: when they're getting out on stage, but when it comes

1335
01:05:34,316 --> 01:05:36,836
Speaker 2: down to work, they know, you know, you've got to

1336
01:05:36,876 --> 01:05:39,916
Speaker 2: put the hours in. Billie Eilish is like that, Atlicia

1337
01:05:40,036 --> 01:05:43,756
Speaker 2: Keys is like that, just real hard working, rolling the

1338
01:05:43,796 --> 01:05:46,396
Speaker 2: sleeves up and putting the hours in, you know.

1339
01:05:46,476 --> 01:05:49,396
Speaker 1: A talking about greats who put in the work. What

1340
01:05:49,516 --> 01:05:53,116
Speaker 1: was it like observing or being a part of the

1341
01:05:53,876 --> 01:05:57,956
Speaker 1: Joshua Tree tour like seeing YouTube in that moment as

1342
01:05:57,996 --> 01:05:58,676
Speaker 1: a close.

1343
01:05:58,436 --> 01:06:03,476
Speaker 2: If you were well, the amazing thing was I told

1344
01:06:03,596 --> 01:06:07,516
Speaker 2: Edge this actually that so when I joined that tour,

1345
01:06:07,556 --> 01:06:09,476
Speaker 2: because the pretender's been doing it for a while, and

1346
01:06:09,516 --> 01:06:12,236
Speaker 2: then the guitar player quit and then I joined on there.

1347
01:06:13,276 --> 01:06:16,676
Speaker 2: At that point, Bono was doing this thing where he's

1348
01:06:16,716 --> 01:06:19,756
Speaker 2: in front of whatever, seventy eighty thousand people and they've

1349
01:06:19,796 --> 01:06:23,956
Speaker 2: got this material that is just really sounding good in

1350
01:06:24,116 --> 01:06:27,596
Speaker 2: those stadiums. And don't forget that it was new music

1351
01:06:27,636 --> 01:06:30,596
Speaker 2: then where the Streets have No Name and I still

1352
01:06:30,596 --> 01:06:32,956
Speaker 2: haven't found what I'm looking for. They were new songs

1353
01:06:33,036 --> 01:06:35,516
Speaker 2: that people were just hearing on the radio right, So

1354
01:06:35,556 --> 01:06:38,756
Speaker 2: it was like, WHOA, this is a pretty good place

1355
01:06:38,756 --> 01:06:38,956
Speaker 2: to be.

1356
01:06:38,996 --> 01:06:41,156
Speaker 3: I was stood out the side of the stage going wow,

1357
01:06:41,236 --> 01:06:43,796
Speaker 3: when you hear that, When you hear where.

1358
01:06:43,636 --> 01:06:45,196
Speaker 2: The Streets have no Name, which I think they used

1359
01:06:45,196 --> 01:06:48,236
Speaker 2: to start with, you go what, I think this song's

1360
01:06:48,236 --> 01:06:50,916
Speaker 2: going to stick around for a while. And so there

1361
01:06:50,996 --> 01:06:53,916
Speaker 2: was a vibe and they come on and Bonn I

1362
01:06:54,036 --> 01:06:57,316
Speaker 2: was doing this thing where midway through the set or whatever,

1363
01:06:57,516 --> 01:07:00,396
Speaker 2: he would climb up on the pa and then he

1364
01:07:00,396 --> 01:07:04,196
Speaker 2: would climb on whatever, on some light in trust or whatever,

1365
01:07:04,516 --> 01:07:07,236
Speaker 2: and he was hanging down off doing that thing, and

1366
01:07:07,276 --> 01:07:11,556
Speaker 2: he'd be hanging down a fit and you know, and

1367
01:07:11,636 --> 01:07:14,156
Speaker 2: Chrissy said to me, go to look at that.

1368
01:07:14,356 --> 01:07:16,196
Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of laughing about it. What does

1369
01:07:16,236 --> 01:07:17,076
Speaker 3: he think he's doing?

1370
01:07:17,956 --> 01:07:20,156
Speaker 2: And I said to her, you know, chrisy, I saw

1371
01:07:20,236 --> 01:07:24,116
Speaker 2: him do that in front of about forty people in

1372
01:07:24,156 --> 01:07:26,916
Speaker 2: a little room in Manchester when they first came at

1373
01:07:26,916 --> 01:07:28,956
Speaker 2: Manchester in nineteen eighty.

1374
01:07:29,036 --> 01:07:31,156
Speaker 3: I want to say, me and my pals went down.

1375
01:07:31,236 --> 01:07:33,836
Speaker 2: We heard about him on the John Peel Show and

1376
01:07:34,676 --> 01:07:38,396
Speaker 2: I thought that's really cool because he was doing it

1377
01:07:38,436 --> 01:07:43,036
Speaker 2: back then, and also I guess the music, I think

1378
01:07:43,076 --> 01:07:44,276
Speaker 2: I started to see that.

1379
01:07:44,516 --> 01:07:46,436
Speaker 3: Well. First off, you've got to have a real.

1380
01:07:47,756 --> 01:07:50,596
Speaker 2: Got a lot of energy to be the head of

1381
01:07:50,956 --> 01:07:54,116
Speaker 2: you know, that kind of organization with like you know,

1382
01:07:54,196 --> 01:07:57,876
Speaker 2: fifteen trucks and such a big, big organization. You know,

1383
01:07:57,956 --> 01:07:59,756
Speaker 2: that takes a lot out of you during the day,

1384
01:07:59,836 --> 01:08:01,516
Speaker 2: forget even the shows.

1385
01:08:01,596 --> 01:08:03,796
Speaker 3: Just being the.

1386
01:08:03,196 --> 01:08:07,236
Speaker 2: Center of all of that operation, which you know, made

1387
01:08:07,316 --> 01:08:10,556
Speaker 2: me realize that I'm okay with being what I am,

1388
01:08:10,596 --> 01:08:13,916
Speaker 2: you know, but because you know, I don't like a

1389
01:08:13,916 --> 01:08:15,516
Speaker 2: lot of fuss, So.

1390
01:08:15,476 --> 01:08:16,556
Speaker 3: I really admired that.

1391
01:08:16,836 --> 01:08:19,876
Speaker 2: But how masterful it was that you the tunes have

1392
01:08:19,956 --> 01:08:22,876
Speaker 2: to be really if you listen to those, that kind

1393
01:08:22,916 --> 01:08:26,276
Speaker 2: of music, which I guess was part of what defined

1394
01:08:26,516 --> 01:08:27,636
Speaker 2: now stayed in music.

1395
01:08:28,436 --> 01:08:32,756
Speaker 3: It's very simple, but it's in I.

1396
01:08:32,676 --> 01:08:36,676
Speaker 2: Remember those those nights as been pretty there's a lot

1397
01:08:36,676 --> 01:08:42,996
Speaker 2: of motion in that music. Simple doesn't necessarily mean like vacuous. Yeah,

1398
01:08:43,596 --> 01:08:45,436
Speaker 2: I still haven't found what I'm looking for is such

1399
01:08:45,436 --> 01:08:51,276
Speaker 2: as and and the Singing Man.

1400
01:08:52,356 --> 01:08:55,076
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was really that. That was very very cool.

1401
01:08:55,116 --> 01:08:57,676
Speaker 2: And again you know the chemistry of a band, if ever,

1402
01:08:57,876 --> 01:09:00,476
Speaker 2: you know, you want to talk about chemistry, you know,

1403
01:09:00,836 --> 01:09:06,196
Speaker 2: look at those guys. They're kind of really archetypal. You know,

1404
01:09:06,236 --> 01:09:10,076
Speaker 2: the edges are really archetypal. He's rolling the and you know,

1405
01:09:10,196 --> 01:09:14,116
Speaker 2: he's kind of arty, and he's got imagination and he

1406
01:09:14,116 --> 01:09:17,516
Speaker 2: he sort of paints pictures and with his guitars that

1407
01:09:17,756 --> 01:09:20,996
Speaker 2: sound and all of that, and Adam really holds it down.

1408
01:09:21,476 --> 01:09:25,036
Speaker 2: And then Bono's a flamboyant on stage and off kind

1409
01:09:25,036 --> 01:09:27,156
Speaker 2: of concepts guy and and Larry's the guy who kind

1410
01:09:27,156 --> 01:09:29,756
Speaker 2: of really is he formed the whole thing and he's

1411
01:09:29,796 --> 01:09:33,316
Speaker 2: like the engine in a way. Yeah, so it comes

1412
01:09:33,316 --> 01:09:35,076
Speaker 2: back to that thing if you are what you play.

1413
01:09:35,796 --> 01:09:38,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I think about the Edge, I also start

1414
01:09:38,476 --> 01:09:41,756
Speaker 1: to think about like Johnny Greenwood, Oh yeah, I mean

1415
01:09:41,836 --> 01:09:44,276
Speaker 1: he seems to me like you also, where it's like

1416
01:09:44,996 --> 01:09:47,316
Speaker 1: it's sort of just down to like like it doesn't

1417
01:09:47,356 --> 01:09:50,316
Speaker 1: matter how complicated it sounds. It's just like what fits

1418
01:09:50,356 --> 01:09:52,876
Speaker 1: this track, you know, and is adventurous.

1419
01:09:52,876 --> 01:09:56,316
Speaker 2: Similarly, yeah, well, well, difference between me and Johnny though,

1420
01:09:56,476 --> 01:09:58,316
Speaker 2: is that he's been able to grow with the same

1421
01:09:58,436 --> 01:10:02,196
Speaker 2: musicians over a long period of time, you know what

1422
01:10:02,236 --> 01:10:05,156
Speaker 2: I mean, because again, they are another band, you know,

1423
01:10:05,276 --> 01:10:06,796
Speaker 2: with amazing chemistry.

1424
01:10:07,716 --> 01:10:09,996
Speaker 3: You know, they've all beco who they are.

1425
01:10:10,116 --> 01:10:11,956
Speaker 2: I mean, I know now that you know, they got

1426
01:10:11,956 --> 01:10:13,596
Speaker 2: to a place where they're all doing their own projects

1427
01:10:13,636 --> 01:10:17,436
Speaker 2: and everything. But Johnny's been in a place where he's

1428
01:10:17,476 --> 01:10:22,276
Speaker 2: been able to grow with Phil Selway playing behind him

1429
01:10:22,476 --> 01:10:25,396
Speaker 2: and with Tom next to him. The difference with me

1430
01:10:25,516 --> 01:10:29,516
Speaker 2: is that I've done that in different bands. I think

1431
01:10:29,516 --> 01:10:31,996
Speaker 2: that's a big difference between me and Johnny. You know,

1432
01:10:32,236 --> 01:10:35,316
Speaker 2: in a way if you like Johnny's, Johnny's family stayed

1433
01:10:35,316 --> 01:10:38,356
Speaker 2: together a long time, whereas my family was a very

1434
01:10:38,676 --> 01:10:40,716
Speaker 2: the family I was known for was very short lived,

1435
01:10:41,396 --> 01:10:43,636
Speaker 2: you know, in the Smiths, which is fine now. It

1436
01:10:43,636 --> 01:10:45,876
Speaker 2: happens with a lot more bands in than the ones

1437
01:10:45,916 --> 01:10:47,316
Speaker 2: that stay together for forty years.

1438
01:10:47,436 --> 01:10:50,276
Speaker 1: I think like the Beatles too, the Beatles. The Beatles

1439
01:10:50,276 --> 01:10:52,796
Speaker 1: short lived, but a lot of packed a big punch

1440
01:10:52,916 --> 01:10:55,676
Speaker 1: in their time. And it's smith I mean, you look

1441
01:10:55,716 --> 01:10:58,236
Speaker 1: at the work you guys did in the short amount

1442
01:10:58,236 --> 01:10:59,836
Speaker 1: of time. It's like, damn, it's a lot of It's

1443
01:10:59,836 --> 01:11:00,516
Speaker 1: a lot of work.

1444
01:11:00,796 --> 01:11:01,156
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1445
01:11:01,236 --> 01:11:04,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, it felt like that, and I'm very extremely proud

1446
01:11:04,996 --> 01:11:07,916
Speaker 2: of it. But I think Johnny's as well as been

1447
01:11:07,956 --> 01:11:11,676
Speaker 2: supremely talented. I think he's been in a place where

1448
01:11:11,716 --> 01:11:16,756
Speaker 2: he can really he occupies his place in that band

1449
01:11:17,076 --> 01:11:21,196
Speaker 2: and has done for a long time now, and he's

1450
01:11:21,316 --> 01:11:23,756
Speaker 2: you know that band that they've all they've all sort

1451
01:11:23,756 --> 01:11:26,156
Speaker 2: of grown around each other, you know what I mean.

1452
01:11:26,556 --> 01:11:29,236
Speaker 2: You pick any album like kid A or that, you know,

1453
01:11:29,316 --> 01:11:32,156
Speaker 2: I'm easy at that period. I really like him Rainbows

1454
01:11:32,196 --> 01:11:36,956
Speaker 2: as well, and they've all kind of evolved together. So

1455
01:11:37,036 --> 01:11:39,756
Speaker 2: I think that's really that's really suited him as a musician.

1456
01:11:39,956 --> 01:11:43,076
Speaker 2: I think it always suited my personality to kind of

1457
01:11:43,676 --> 01:11:46,676
Speaker 2: flit around. Really, you know, it doesn't come as any

1458
01:11:46,716 --> 01:11:49,756
Speaker 2: surprise to me whatsoever that I've been in loads of

1459
01:11:49,796 --> 01:11:50,436
Speaker 2: different bands.

1460
01:11:50,596 --> 01:11:52,956
Speaker 1: Going back to the beginning of our conversation. I love

1461
01:11:52,996 --> 01:11:54,996
Speaker 1: that it's something you've done, and I wish you I

1462
01:11:55,036 --> 01:11:57,156
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like, you know, if I had my brothers,

1463
01:11:57,476 --> 01:12:00,396
Speaker 1: my personal taste taking into consideration to have my brothers,

1464
01:12:00,556 --> 01:12:02,676
Speaker 1: I would have that happen more often. Like I love

1465
01:12:03,076 --> 01:12:05,356
Speaker 1: seeing different like going back to jazz, like I love

1466
01:12:05,636 --> 01:12:07,196
Speaker 1: It's like I love the fact that I can pull

1467
01:12:07,276 --> 01:12:09,196
Speaker 1: up and be like, oh, I want to hear, Oh

1468
01:12:09,236 --> 01:12:12,396
Speaker 1: I can hear Oscar Peterson play with with Check Baker

1469
01:12:12,436 --> 01:12:14,596
Speaker 1: on this one, or I can hear I want to

1470
01:12:14,596 --> 01:12:18,156
Speaker 1: hear Wayne Shorter play with you know, Jimmy Cabb instead

1471
01:12:18,196 --> 01:12:20,276
Speaker 1: of what you know, right, I just want to hear

1472
01:12:20,316 --> 01:12:23,236
Speaker 1: what the different combinations and formations sound like. And that's

1473
01:12:23,276 --> 01:12:25,596
Speaker 1: what's cool about and why I got into making lots

1474
01:12:25,636 --> 01:12:27,836
Speaker 1: playlists around news, because it's like just cool toy hear

1475
01:12:28,156 --> 01:12:30,556
Speaker 1: how someone sounds in different context with different people at

1476
01:12:30,556 --> 01:12:32,596
Speaker 1: different times. It's just fun.

1477
01:12:32,436 --> 01:12:33,036
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks.

1478
01:12:33,236 --> 01:12:36,036
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes I think what I do is more heard

1479
01:12:36,116 --> 01:12:39,116
Speaker 2: in some situations than others. So in the other there

1480
01:12:39,196 --> 01:12:41,276
Speaker 2: was quite a lot of space for me to do

1481
01:12:41,356 --> 01:12:45,676
Speaker 2: my thing in especially on the Dusk album you can

1482
01:12:45,716 --> 01:12:47,396
Speaker 2: hear you can hear me quite a lot, and then

1483
01:12:47,676 --> 01:12:50,396
Speaker 2: other times, like with electronic, the guitar kind of got

1484
01:12:50,396 --> 01:12:53,476
Speaker 2: squeezed out. But that was my actually down to me

1485
01:12:54,316 --> 01:12:56,716
Speaker 2: because I was really kind of getting getting so in

1486
01:12:56,836 --> 01:12:59,916
Speaker 2: electronic pop and I just got really enthusiastic for that,

1487
01:12:59,996 --> 01:13:01,676
Speaker 2: and I guess, you know, I just sort of fell

1488
01:13:01,676 --> 01:13:04,396
Speaker 2: out of love with being a rock musician during that period.

1489
01:13:04,396 --> 01:13:06,596
Speaker 2: But that's okay because I was only twenty five, twenty six,

1490
01:13:06,636 --> 01:13:07,236
Speaker 2: twenty seven.

1491
01:13:07,396 --> 01:13:08,196
Speaker 3: It's all part of.

1492
01:13:08,116 --> 01:13:10,996
Speaker 2: It and I've done that now and if you know,

1493
01:13:11,116 --> 01:13:14,516
Speaker 2: but but where the guitar did feature in on electronics

1494
01:13:14,556 --> 01:13:18,916
Speaker 2: records likes feel every be and get the message, it

1495
01:13:18,996 --> 01:13:21,516
Speaker 2: was pretty interesting stuff. I kind of wish that I'd

1496
01:13:21,676 --> 01:13:24,876
Speaker 2: done more of it, and Bernard was always, to be

1497
01:13:24,916 --> 01:13:26,796
Speaker 2: fair of Bernard was always encouraging me to do more

1498
01:13:26,796 --> 01:13:29,156
Speaker 2: of it, but I wanted to learn about other aspects

1499
01:13:29,196 --> 01:13:31,196
Speaker 2: of record making there so it is or what it

1500
01:13:31,276 --> 01:13:33,516
Speaker 2: is and you know, and on the Cribs record that

1501
01:13:33,556 --> 01:13:33,996
Speaker 2: I made.

1502
01:13:34,636 --> 01:13:36,676
Speaker 3: There's plenty of me on that stuff. I can hear

1503
01:13:36,716 --> 01:13:37,196
Speaker 3: a lot of that.

1504
01:13:37,436 --> 01:13:40,316
Speaker 2: So I mean, I really feel like as a and

1505
01:13:40,356 --> 01:13:42,836
Speaker 2: I don't mean to sound glib or whatever, but I

1506
01:13:42,916 --> 01:13:45,836
Speaker 2: kind of think of as a British guitar player, I've

1507
01:13:45,876 --> 01:13:48,036
Speaker 2: kind of had the best job I could think of.

1508
01:13:48,716 --> 01:13:53,276
Speaker 2: I mean genuinely, you know, I understand sure because Dismiss

1509
01:13:53,276 --> 01:13:56,676
Speaker 2: are so revered and so loved over time and almost

1510
01:13:56,676 --> 01:14:00,036
Speaker 2: you know, times made the band almost even more kind

1511
01:14:00,036 --> 01:14:03,836
Speaker 2: of you know, valued or whatever the big narrative is.

1512
01:14:04,156 --> 01:14:05,956
Speaker 2: People are seeing, oh the band was so short lived,

1513
01:14:05,956 --> 01:14:07,516
Speaker 2: if only they could stay together.

1514
01:14:07,236 --> 01:14:08,236
Speaker 3: For longer, and all of that.

1515
01:14:08,356 --> 01:14:11,116
Speaker 2: But it makes sense to me that just speaking for

1516
01:14:11,156 --> 01:14:13,996
Speaker 2: my own life, that I've done all of this different

1517
01:14:14,036 --> 01:14:18,116
Speaker 2: stuff as a guitar player, it's entirely the person I

1518
01:14:18,196 --> 01:14:21,396
Speaker 2: was when that when I was fourteen fifteen, and I

1519
01:14:21,436 --> 01:14:23,796
Speaker 2: say that all the time, and it's it's a person

1520
01:14:23,796 --> 01:14:24,236
Speaker 2: that I kind of.

1521
01:14:24,236 --> 01:14:25,236
Speaker 3: Dreamed of being. Really.

1522
01:14:25,236 --> 01:14:27,996
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, you know, life throws all kinds of

1523
01:14:27,996 --> 01:14:31,836
Speaker 2: curve balls without getting down you know too philosophical, nothing's

1524
01:14:32,436 --> 01:14:35,956
Speaker 2: doesn't turn out like a fairy tale. But professionally, man,

1525
01:14:36,036 --> 01:14:38,396
Speaker 2: I can't. Sometimes I think, Wow, I was Innder there.

1526
01:14:38,436 --> 01:14:40,076
Speaker 2: They were my favorite band at the time.

1527
01:14:40,436 --> 01:14:44,756
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and you were with them and maybe you know,

1528
01:14:44,876 --> 01:14:47,196
Speaker 1: like maybe their best record, you know, like Dusk is

1529
01:14:47,356 --> 01:14:48,356
Speaker 1: like yeah, you know.

1530
01:14:48,956 --> 01:14:51,476
Speaker 3: Dusk is a real good one. Yeah. It's just weird

1531
01:14:51,476 --> 01:14:52,316
Speaker 3: that it all turned out.

1532
01:14:52,316 --> 01:14:55,196
Speaker 2: And then, you know, I was really when when I

1533
01:14:55,236 --> 01:14:57,356
Speaker 2: The short thing with Body's Mouth was that I went

1534
01:14:57,356 --> 01:14:59,996
Speaker 2: through a period where the late night is were I

1535
01:15:00,156 --> 01:15:03,276
Speaker 2: just wasn't really hearing that much in British guitar music

1536
01:15:04,076 --> 01:15:06,836
Speaker 2: that excited me, But I was hearing it in American

1537
01:15:06,916 --> 01:15:07,676
Speaker 2: guitar music.

1538
01:15:07,876 --> 01:15:10,436
Speaker 3: I Built to Spill really liked. And there was a.

1539
01:15:10,436 --> 01:15:15,076
Speaker 2: Band called the Lilies I really liked from out of Boston.

1540
01:15:16,036 --> 01:15:19,556
Speaker 2: I thought Lilies were great. And then and Elliott Smith.

1541
01:15:19,596 --> 01:15:21,916
Speaker 2: And what happened was I met Elliott.

1542
01:15:21,716 --> 01:15:24,076
Speaker 3: And Elliott Smith. Oh yeah, I met Elliot a couple

1543
01:15:24,116 --> 01:15:24,396
Speaker 3: of times.

1544
01:15:24,436 --> 01:15:26,516
Speaker 2: In the first time I met him, I was talking

1545
01:15:26,516 --> 01:15:29,676
Speaker 2: to him about these bands and he hit me up

1546
01:15:29,676 --> 01:15:30,356
Speaker 2: to Modest Mouse.

1547
01:15:30,356 --> 01:15:31,516
Speaker 3: I didn't know what Modest Mouse was.

1548
01:15:31,556 --> 01:15:33,196
Speaker 2: It was Elliot who told me about Maddy s Mouse

1549
01:15:33,396 --> 01:15:35,156
Speaker 2: and he said, well, listen, I have you had Modice Mouse.

1550
01:15:35,516 --> 01:15:37,956
Speaker 2: He said something like all roads lead to Modese Mouse.

1551
01:15:37,996 --> 01:15:40,316
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, so that's how I got into

1552
01:15:40,756 --> 01:15:43,796
Speaker 2: He took me on the Moon and Antarctica, and then

1553
01:15:44,436 --> 01:15:46,316
Speaker 2: six seven years later I ended up being a full

1554
01:15:46,316 --> 01:15:48,556
Speaker 2: time member of the band for like longer than people think.

1555
01:15:48,596 --> 01:15:48,836
Speaker 3: I thought.

1556
01:15:48,836 --> 01:15:51,236
Speaker 2: I joined the band two thousand and five and I

1557
01:15:51,316 --> 01:15:55,316
Speaker 2: left the band twenty ten think, and ended up moving

1558
01:15:55,356 --> 01:15:58,196
Speaker 2: to Portland. So that was all down to without Elliott.

1559
01:15:58,196 --> 01:15:59,316
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have known about that.

1560
01:15:59,596 --> 01:16:00,636
Speaker 1: How did you mean Elliott?

1561
01:16:02,236 --> 01:16:04,996
Speaker 2: I was in LA and mutual friend said he wanted

1562
01:16:05,036 --> 01:16:07,436
Speaker 2: to meet me, and we're a couple of mutual friends,

1563
01:16:07,556 --> 01:16:09,996
Speaker 2: and I think XO would just him out, and I

1564
01:16:10,036 --> 01:16:10,916
Speaker 2: thought that was great.

1565
01:16:10,956 --> 01:16:12,436
Speaker 3: I just thought he was really good.

1566
01:16:13,156 --> 01:16:15,916
Speaker 2: And then then I knew a couple of these musicians

1567
01:16:16,196 --> 01:16:18,436
Speaker 2: and he always had really nice The thing about him

1568
01:16:18,476 --> 01:16:19,876
Speaker 2: was the people I knew who worked with him were

1569
01:16:19,876 --> 01:16:22,836
Speaker 2: all really nice people. My friend Scott, he was his

1570
01:16:22,916 --> 01:16:25,676
Speaker 2: drummer for a while, so we had kind of we

1571
01:16:25,756 --> 01:16:26,036
Speaker 2: had a.

1572
01:16:25,996 --> 01:16:27,676
Speaker 3: Sort of mutual sort of scene.

1573
01:16:27,716 --> 01:16:30,276
Speaker 2: Really yeah, but I look back on all this and

1574
01:16:30,636 --> 01:16:32,676
Speaker 2: I think, Wow, I'm kind of glad.

1575
01:16:32,756 --> 01:16:36,236
Speaker 1: I'm glad that things works out worked out amazingly. Before

1576
01:16:36,276 --> 01:16:38,196
Speaker 1: we go, man, do you have I see your guitars

1577
01:16:38,196 --> 01:16:39,916
Speaker 1: back there? Do you have your nine? You have a

1578
01:16:40,196 --> 01:16:42,476
Speaker 1: you have a book coming out called Mars Guitars that

1579
01:16:42,516 --> 01:16:45,556
Speaker 1: I'm excited to check out. Do you have your nine?

1580
01:16:45,836 --> 01:16:47,516
Speaker 1: Pickup guitar?

1581
01:16:48,756 --> 01:16:51,476
Speaker 2: No one's ever asked me about that guitar. They probably

1582
01:16:51,476 --> 01:16:54,636
Speaker 2: won't again. Just it's in my actual studio because this

1583
01:16:54,756 --> 01:16:57,996
Speaker 2: is this is my house now. But it's an amazing sound.

1584
01:16:58,276 --> 01:17:00,236
Speaker 3: It's a guitar.

1585
01:17:03,436 --> 01:17:08,436
Speaker 2: You know, I don't drink anymore, but I wasn't actually

1586
01:17:08,556 --> 01:17:10,556
Speaker 2: drunk when I bought it. I may head, but it

1587
01:17:10,676 --> 01:17:13,156
Speaker 2: was back in the days when I was like drinking

1588
01:17:13,236 --> 01:17:16,036
Speaker 2: quite a lot. I was either drunk from the night before.

1589
01:17:16,076 --> 01:17:18,356
Speaker 2: But I went into a guitar shop with Nold gallagheries only.

1590
01:17:18,356 --> 01:17:19,916
Speaker 2: I think it was said maybe the might be when

1591
01:17:19,916 --> 01:17:22,716
Speaker 2: the very first day we met and I saw this thing,

1592
01:17:22,756 --> 01:17:25,756
Speaker 2: and I just was like my logic for buying that guitar.

1593
01:17:25,796 --> 01:17:29,756
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, if Kraftwork played guitar, that's what

1594
01:17:29,796 --> 01:17:32,316
Speaker 2: they would play. Nola had only just met me, and

1595
01:17:32,356 --> 01:17:36,236
Speaker 2: I think he thought this guy is a crazy, crazy

1596
01:17:36,316 --> 01:17:36,756
Speaker 2: rock star.

1597
01:17:38,036 --> 01:17:39,316
Speaker 1: That's a fair assessment.

1598
01:17:40,236 --> 01:17:42,356
Speaker 2: But you know what, maybe it was about what it

1599
01:17:42,436 --> 01:17:44,956
Speaker 2: probably almost thirty years later. I had to wait to

1600
01:17:44,956 --> 01:17:46,476
Speaker 2: get a song out of it, but it was spirit,

1601
01:17:46,556 --> 01:17:47,116
Speaker 2: power and soul.

1602
01:17:47,436 --> 01:17:48,596
Speaker 1: Ah so cool.

1603
01:17:48,876 --> 01:17:49,876
Speaker 3: It came up with the riffs.

1604
01:17:49,876 --> 01:17:52,956
Speaker 2: So hey, that's my that's that's my excuse, and I'm

1605
01:17:52,956 --> 01:17:54,196
Speaker 2: sticking to it. Man.

1606
01:17:54,236 --> 01:17:55,996
Speaker 1: I got a thousand and one questions for you. Man,

1607
01:17:56,036 --> 01:17:58,116
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's such a such a pleasure.

1608
01:17:58,196 --> 01:18:00,356
Speaker 3: Hearkened to you all right, man, all the best. Thank

1609
01:18:00,396 --> 01:18:00,956
Speaker 3: you see here.

1610
01:18:03,956 --> 01:18:07,556
Speaker 1: Thanks Johnny Mar for talking about his epic career. You

1611
01:18:07,596 --> 01:18:10,356
Speaker 1: can hear all of our favorite track featuring Mar, as

1612
01:18:10,396 --> 01:18:12,596
Speaker 1: well as some of his solo work on a playlist

1613
01:18:12,636 --> 01:18:16,476
Speaker 1: app Broken record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to

1614
01:18:16,516 --> 01:18:20,316
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast,

1615
01:18:20,396 --> 01:18:23,116
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You

1616
01:18:23,156 --> 01:18:26,876
Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record

1617
01:18:26,916 --> 01:18:30,476
Speaker 1: is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday,

1618
01:18:30,676 --> 01:18:35,196
Speaker 1: and Eric sam Our editor is Sophie Kran. Broken Record

1619
01:18:35,236 --> 01:18:37,756
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this

1620
01:18:37,836 --> 01:18:41,156
Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

1621
01:18:41,756 --> 01:18:45,356
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

1622
01:18:45,436 --> 01:18:48,756
Speaker 1: an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.

1623
01:18:49,116 --> 01:18:52,596
Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if

1624
01:18:52,596 --> 01:18:54,796
Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and

1625
01:18:54,836 --> 01:18:57,876
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. My theme musics by

1626
01:18:57,956 --> 01:18:59,996
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rischman.