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Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stone's hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney Spanos.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Rob Sheffield, and we're here to shed light

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Speaker 2: on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes

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Speaker 2: them so great. This week we're going into It Takes

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Speaker 2: two by Rob Bass and DJ Easy Rock. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What an absolutely catchy song, kind of perfect.

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Speaker 2: One of the truly great summer songs of all time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was on the twenty twenty one list of the

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Speaker 2: five hundred Greatest Songs and number one sixteen.

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Speaker 1: And the song was released in nineteen eighty eight. And

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Speaker 1: I was reading an interview that Rob had done with

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Speaker 1: with Rolling Stone a few years ago, kind of in

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Speaker 1: the series about how great nineteen eighty eight was for

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Speaker 1: hip hop and how their manager had basically just asked

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Speaker 1: them to work on a couple songs so they can

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Speaker 1: start maybe getting signed and start chopping around music. And

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Speaker 1: it started off as just a demo that they were

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Speaker 1: using to get signed, and they use this great sample

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Speaker 1: of Lynn Collins nineteen seventy two song think About It,

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Speaker 1: which has that yeah woo that sample in the background

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Speaker 1: and then it just completely changed their lives.

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Speaker 2: It changed everything. It was phenomenal. It was the epical

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Speaker 2: hip hop song of the epical hip hop summer of

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight, which was such a golden age for

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Speaker 2: hip hop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what was making nineteen eighty eight that

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Speaker 1: golden age and that kind of that best year? And

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Speaker 1: if you agree that it was the best year of

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Speaker 1: hip hop, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if it's the best year, but it was

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Speaker 2: definitely a golden age in that people had taken the

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Speaker 2: idea from Run DMC that you could focus the music

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Speaker 2: entirely on hip hop and make street records and that

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Speaker 2: they could cross over and be hits. But so much

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Speaker 2: of the music was going strange places that you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have predicted. But the summer of eighty eight was a

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Speaker 2: time when you could turn on the radio and just

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Speaker 2: hear hip hop getting reinvented week after week, with so

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Speaker 2: many brilliant minds building on the innovation of what people

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Speaker 2: had just done. So it was this ongoing creative project

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Speaker 2: where people were constantly checking each other out and bouncing

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Speaker 2: back with a new record. So the end of the summer,

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Speaker 2: it Takes two was a hit all summer long. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it was really strange to think of it as

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Speaker 2: a top forty hit when it was so raw and uncut.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this was also such a turning point,

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Speaker 1: right in terms of kind of hip hop as pop

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Speaker 1: music and kind of the opening of spaces both in

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Speaker 1: radio and on MTV of like having more of these

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Speaker 1: hip hop records played in primetime and played, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the radio beyond just like the late night mixes

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Speaker 1: that would play rap music, or MTV having this was

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Speaker 1: like the first year that you know, MTV.

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Speaker 2: Raps TPA yeah, summer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this was such like a turning point

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Speaker 1: of seeing this music become what was top forty pop

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Speaker 1: music and being played as equally as everything else being

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Speaker 1: played at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It was so crazy how hip hop was considered

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Speaker 2: a fad, almost novelty music right up till Run DMC

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Speaker 2: really defined that it could be. Well, Run DMC really

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Speaker 2: showed everybody what it could be and raising Hell from

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, which was their third album, but a

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Speaker 2: phenomenal album. Yeah, Run DMC had already changed the world

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Speaker 2: with records like Sucker MC's and it's like that in

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Speaker 2: rock Box they were as they said, the first hip

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Speaker 2: hop group to make a street record that was for

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Speaker 2: the streets rather than the clubs. Raising hell, they proved

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Speaker 2: that it was an album format, and they showed how

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Speaker 2: flexible it was, how diverse. It was still a phenomenal album.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean with it takes two. I mean that song,

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Speaker 1: I mean is just like such a great kind of

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Speaker 1: catchy song that is still very much played on radio constantly,

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Speaker 1: is very much still kind of a foundational song for

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. I mean, what about that

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Speaker 1: song makes it so so great and kind of stand

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Speaker 1: out from the summer of eighty eight.

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Speaker 2: Well, it takes two takes that James Brown break that

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, James Brown going yet and Lynn Collins going

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Speaker 2: wo and just loops it into eternity. It was at

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Speaker 2: a time when James Brown symbolized so much in pop music.

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Speaker 2: He symbolized its independence from pop, its independence from compromise,

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Speaker 2: its uncompromising blackness. And that James Brown was used in

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Speaker 2: this really mutated way, and that there's so much disco

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Speaker 2: in the record as well, that it's got that strafe

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Speaker 2: set it off rhythm track. Rob Basse told me once

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Speaker 2: that he was thinking of one specific roller rink in

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Speaker 2: Harlem where they used to go and skate. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: he was thinking of a record that would affect that

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Speaker 2: particular room and what people like to skate to in

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Speaker 2: that particular room. So he was aiming for a really

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Speaker 2: specific building, a really specific room, a really specific crowd,

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Speaker 2: And to his surprise and to everybody's surprise, it turned

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Speaker 2: out to be a sound that the whole world wanted

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Speaker 2: a piece of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love the roller rink inspiration. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's so apt for this song.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it's just so a great dance records,

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Speaker 1: such a great hip hop record, Like I mean, the

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Speaker 1: use of the samples is so incredible and kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, just like so infectious on it. And I

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Speaker 1: mean just like the flow is I mean just like amazing.

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Speaker 1: Like it's everything that I really love about like a

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Speaker 1: really great kind of hip hop track.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely Yeah. And that records like this were dropping so fast.

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Speaker 2: Records is innovative and brilliant. So that summer you have

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Speaker 2: records by EPMD like strictly business and you've got to chill.

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Speaker 2: You've got Eric B and Rakim Follow the Leader. You've

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Speaker 2: got Public Enemy with Rebel without a pause and bring

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Speaker 2: the noise. There was so much happening in the air

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty eight that for a record like It

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Speaker 2: Takes Two, which is just a straight up street record,

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Speaker 2: to just cross over to Top forty pop, it was

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Speaker 2: unprecedented and very strange. I mean, it was very different

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Speaker 2: from run DMC when they finally made the Top forty

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Speaker 2: with a pop hit. They did it the compromising way.

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Speaker 2: They did a cover of Walk This Way Aerosmith, which

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Speaker 2: a song which had a really big impact on Aerosmith's

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Speaker 2: career but in many ways turned out to be not

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Speaker 2: so great for Run DMC.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the video for the song is also really really

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Speaker 1: great outside of the They kind of had to self

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Speaker 1: finance this video basically and kind of filming outside of

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Speaker 1: the Apollo And there's like a like a bismarky like

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Speaker 1: cameo in the in the video too, of him just

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Speaker 1: like walking past or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a total straight up Harlem street scene like

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Speaker 2: the record, and that something like this could be a hit.

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Speaker 2: You didn't have to cover a pop hit, you didn't

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Speaker 2: have to do that with the famous pop artist. You

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Speaker 2: could just do a record like this, and that was

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Speaker 2: what people wanted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, are you a fan of kind

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Speaker 1: of the Rob bassed dj ez rock kind of full

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Speaker 1: discography and like, what are some what are some songs,

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Speaker 1: other songs I should check out by them?

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Speaker 2: Joy and Pain is a great one. I'm an unusually

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Speaker 2: huge fan of Rob Bass. His second album, The Incredible Bass,

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Speaker 2: which was done without DG. Easy Rock. That's a great

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Speaker 2: record as well. War is a great version of the

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Speaker 2: Motown song War. You're just talking about rap battles in

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Speaker 2: the eighties and he says, you know what, I don't

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Speaker 2: see Patty and Luther battling. But Rob Bass was someone

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Speaker 2: who just had this, as he put it in the song,

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Speaker 2: a real funky concept. That album, it takes two. It

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Speaker 2: had other great hits on it, like Joy and Pain. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it's really this one song seemed to hit at

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Speaker 2: a specific time and place and has never really gone away. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was reading in an interview that you'd

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Speaker 1: done about how his favorite use of it was in

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Speaker 1: the Proposal. It was just like such a great scene

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Speaker 1: with it with like Sandra Bullock and Ryan and Ryan

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Speaker 1: Reynolds kind of singing the song. Like the fact that

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Speaker 1: the song is just still kind of finding new ways

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Speaker 1: to break through and kind of be in you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's in so many movies and TV shows and

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Speaker 1: also like there's a great Black Eyed Peace song that

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Speaker 1: samples like their version. You know. It's like, I think

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Speaker 1: it's so fascinating to kind of see this song that

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Speaker 1: obviously was so important to this like breaking point for

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Speaker 1: hip hop in this moment when hip hop was becoming

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Speaker 1: even more mainstream and being that song of the summer

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Speaker 1: that it was kind of still still being such an

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Speaker 1: important touchdowne for everyone.

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Speaker 2: It's very similar to a rock sane chante song that

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Speaker 2: was huge around the same time, go On Girl, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: which is also a phenomenal song.

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Speaker 1: Love that song. That's a top song for me.

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Speaker 2: Rox Sande Chante with rhymes written by Big Daddy Kane, who,

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Speaker 2: along with Bismarquis, was also so huge in that great

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Speaker 2: hip hop explosion of eighty eight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Long Lived the Cane is one of my favorite albums

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Speaker 2: from the eighties, especially the song eight and No Half

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Speaker 2: Step in Yes to Me that was a wordsmith just

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Speaker 2: showing how far he could go to the outer extremes

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Speaker 2: and yet not making it sound complex or thorny, but

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Speaker 2: just making it rock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean especially kind of with how big this

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Speaker 1: year was, and especially how big this particular song It

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Speaker 1: Takes Two was, and kin kind of what it cracked

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Speaker 1: through at that moment in sort of radio and MTV

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Speaker 1: and kind of all these outlets that previously were more

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Speaker 1: medicine to have hip hop be played against, you know,

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Speaker 1: like next to Madonna and you know, Prince and Michael

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Speaker 1: Jackson and you know, all the kind of like what

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Speaker 1: seemed to be just like more kind of straightforward like

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Speaker 1: pop music, Like what sort of happened or I guess,

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Speaker 1: like what do you remember of happening in ninete eighty

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Speaker 1: nine and going forward and what this allowed for hip

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Speaker 1: hop over the next couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Well, this was the era before sampling got really litigitious,

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Speaker 2: which really changed everything in late ninety nine especially, But

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Speaker 2: this was the era when basically people treated samples like

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Speaker 2: they were free and DJ could take a beat from

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Speaker 2: anywhere and turn it into a hitter at least turned

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Speaker 2: it into a great record. Yeah, And there was so

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Speaker 2: much creativity going around with an album, Like in early

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Speaker 2: eighty nine you have Dala Soul with later that year

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Speaker 2: it's the Beastie Boys with Paul's boutique, but people were

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Speaker 2: making such adventurous pastiche records with sampling, and it ended

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Speaker 2: very quickly and very horribly. The Dala Soul song was

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Speaker 2: a really minor track on Three Feet High and Rising.

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Speaker 2: It was transmitting live from Mars and it used a

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Speaker 2: sample of the sixties pop hit by the Turtles called

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Speaker 2: You Showed Me, who previously were not considered all that

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Speaker 2: consequential in pop history, but Dalas Hole sampled them on

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Speaker 2: their album and that was the lawsuit that really froze

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Speaker 2: that sort of creative era of anything goes sampling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I didn't realize it was the

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Speaker 1: Turtles that kind of were the ones that broke that down.

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Speaker 2: It was the song where Dala Soul with the French lesson. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's while that, you know, like so many great

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Speaker 2: Prince Paul productions, you listened to Three Feet High in

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Speaker 2: Rising now and it's still full of surprises. You still

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Speaker 2: hear so much imagination and creativity going into it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I love sort of the kind of

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Speaker 1: crate digging stories from all these great producers and mcs

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Speaker 1: from the eighties and early nineties, which just like how

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Speaker 1: they've on those samples and kind of just like digging

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Speaker 1: into those classic and often long lost disco and soul

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Speaker 1: records and rock records that they would just kind of

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Speaker 1: find and kind of like digging through record stories and

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Speaker 1: finding these songs that they were able to kind of

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Speaker 1: patch together and make a massive hit out of.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely it goes back to the old school rap battles

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Speaker 2: in the South Bronx, where DJs like Cool Hirk were

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Speaker 2: innovating the idea of taking a break and making that

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Speaker 2: the whole record, making that the whole song. Grandmaster Flash, Africa,

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Speaker 2: Bombada and cool Heart. They famously used to take the

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Speaker 2: labels off the record so other DJs couldn't peer over

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Speaker 2: and see what they were breaking. Africa and bab Bada

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Speaker 2: had a great quote that he liked to put on

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Speaker 2: music by the Stones or the Beatles or the Monkeys

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Speaker 2: and later tell people, yeah, you were really dancing to

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Speaker 2: that monkey's song, and people were really surprised to hear

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Speaker 2: that they had danced to a monkey zone. I do

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Speaker 2: that you could take any break and build a record

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Speaker 2: around it, but it takes too ridiculous. It just takes

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Speaker 2: that one brief moment in a James Brown song that

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Speaker 2: was not a crossover hit, definitely like a great digging pick, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and turned it into the basis of a whole phenomenal

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Speaker 2: record that was so influential and remains really influential.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And what do you think it is about this

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Speaker 1: particular song? I mean, obviously, again, like this year was

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Speaker 1: so massive, and I mean there are all these incredible

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Speaker 1: songs that obviously still have so much longevity and have

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Speaker 1: still kind of maintained their popularity and still sound fresh

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Speaker 1: and still sound so, you know, influential. But I mean

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Speaker 1: with this particular song that I mean, I feel like

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Speaker 1: kind of just is so ingrained into everything that we like,

255
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Speaker 1: look here constantly. What do you think it is about

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Speaker 1: it takes two that's maintained its popularity over the years.

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Speaker 2: It's just so immediate, right, You hear it and it

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Speaker 2: just grabs you right away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's kind of hard to not

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Speaker 1: be like that. Yeah, it was just like completely intoxicated.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, one of the great openings, yeah, in music history,

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Speaker 2: with the announcement that you're about to be a mazed

264
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Speaker 2: by the power of Rob Bay and DJ Easy Rock.

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Speaker 2: Then the most amazing hit it intro yeah, and just

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Speaker 2: that perfect opening where Rob Bass just says, I win

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Speaker 2: a rock right now. Yeah, And this is definitely a

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Speaker 2: song that creates the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I think, like especially with any sort

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Speaker 1: of eighties hip hop and sort of that fusion of

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Speaker 1: like dance and kind of the songs that are both

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Speaker 1: you know, club and street like this. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just kind of like a perfect storm of kind of

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Speaker 1: catchiness and fun that is on all these songs. Like

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Speaker 1: the song is just so much fun to listen to

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Speaker 1: and to hear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you love about eighties hip hop?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think like so much of the sampling

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Speaker 1: and kind of that kind of combination of like like

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Speaker 1: disco and rock and soul and all of that has

281
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Speaker 1: always just like really drawn me. I think just the

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Speaker 1: songs are so fun and dancy, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: always been my favorite thing. Like I just really like

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Speaker 1: I always think of that Missy Elliott outro, and I

285
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Speaker 1: think work it where She's just like, like, this is

286
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Speaker 1: hip hop, we love to dance. Like that outro is

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Speaker 1: like such like a kind of encapsulates so much of

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Speaker 1: what I love, especially about that sort of decade of

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Speaker 1: the birth of hip hop is how dancy it is?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Missie La definitely a great example of somebody

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Speaker 2: who takes that playful, creative, anything goes spirit of eighties

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Speaker 2: hip hop, and it was very much an industry that

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Speaker 2: was not trying to cross over to pop, but was

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Speaker 2: able to stand on its own terms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even just like listening back, it's like

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Speaker 1: they're so I mean, because they are so influential to

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Speaker 1: so much of what pop and hip hop would sound

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Speaker 1: like for the next couple of decades. Like, I think

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Speaker 1: it seems like so obvious that these songs like it's like,

300
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Speaker 1: so they should be hits. You know, it's like a

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Speaker 1: song like hearing it takes two. It's like, how are

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Speaker 1: they not? I mean, obviously, of course there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of reasons why a lot of hip hop artists weren't

304
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Speaker 1: signed just yet. But I mean it's one of those

305
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: songs where it's like this is of course this is

306
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Speaker 1: a big hit. Of course this song would blow up.

307
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is like one of the catchiest songs

308
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Speaker 1: ever made. It's such like a song that you immediately

309
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Speaker 1: need to like move your body as soon as you

310
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Speaker 1: hear it, and kind of hard to get out of

311
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Speaker 1: your head once you hear it for the first time

312
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Speaker 1: and just sounds like it, you know, just sounds so

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Speaker 1: fresh and like it should be the biggest song of

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Speaker 1: all time.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. In the spring of nineteen eighty nine, Spin magazine

316
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Speaker 2: did a list of the greatest songs of all time

317
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Speaker 2: and this was number one. Yeah, and it really kind

318
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Speaker 2: of summed up what the song meant at the time

319
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Speaker 2: that it felt like, right now is a time of

320
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Speaker 2: so much creativity and so much innovation, and it takes too.

321
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Speaker 2: Is definitely a song that celebrates that. Yeah, it's definitely

322
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Speaker 2: a moment that captures hip hop where you could take

323
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Speaker 2: this minimal record. It's just a rhythm, there's no pop hook,

324
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Speaker 2: there's no outside instruments, and it's just minimal hip hop

325
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Speaker 2: for hip hop. It's never intended to cross over. But

326
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Speaker 2: you hear that song everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I mean I think that it's like one

328
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Speaker 1: of those songs that it is very much like I

329
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Speaker 1: still hear it kind of like at block parties and everything.

330
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Speaker 1: Like I feel like every time my block has a

331
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Speaker 1: party in the summer, like this song is always, always,

332
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Speaker 1: always out on the mix.

333
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Speaker 2: Yeah, those run DMC records for the eighties, they always

334
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 2: still sound so immediate and fresh and impatient, like they

335
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 2: want your attention right now.

336
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there is like so much of that urgency to

337
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 1: the beat on it takes too as well, Like there

338
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,960
Speaker 1: is kind of that like it's so like propulsive and

339
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Speaker 1: just like really kind of it's really just like really

340
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Speaker 1: hard to not move when you hear it. Yeah, where

341
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Speaker 1: do you sort of hear? The influence of it takes

342
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Speaker 1: to and of also rob bass and DJ easy rock.

343
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Speaker 2: Honestly, the idea of just taking a break and making

344
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 2: a whole song out of it influenced the way everybody

345
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 2: made music. It was a bit like the Ramones in

346
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 2: a way that the Ramones had this just play the

347
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 2: fun part of the song and make that the whole

348
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 2: song and do it over and over and again. But

349
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 2: for hip hop to just prove that you could go

350
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Speaker 2: so minimal and still make music that you still hear

351
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 2: weddings and parties, it's still something that is fresh and

352
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Speaker 2: influential on how other people make music.

353
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like, I mean, of course, the Black

354
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 1: Eyed Peas song, the samples that I am a big

355
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Speaker 1: fan of that song body, and I mean I feel like, yeah,

356
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: so much of Obviously Missy Elliott, who I know we

357
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,679
Speaker 1: both both love and have talked about this on the

358
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: show before, is so kind of had constantly been pulling

359
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: from this era of hip hop and kind of so

360
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 1: much a love letter to a song like It Takes

361
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Speaker 1: Two and kind of this like Year of eighty eight

362
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Speaker 1: kind of hip hop breaking through and kind of that

363
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Speaker 1: that kind of Golden Age is so influential on her.

364
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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. EPMD had such a huge hit that summer

365
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 2: with Strictly Business where they take a little bit from

366
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Speaker 2: I Shot the Sheriff and they loop it all the

367
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 2: way through the song, just this really micro minimal sliver

368
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 2: of the song and in a completely weird sort of transcendence.

369
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Speaker 2: They don't even use the Bob Marlee version. They use

370
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Speaker 2: the Eric Clapton version, And it sounds so wild to

371
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Speaker 2: take this little bit of a rock version of a

372
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Speaker 2: reggae song and just loop it into this elemental hip

373
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Speaker 2: hop beat. Yeah, but to me that records like that

374
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Speaker 2: sum up the spirit of that period and hip hop

375
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Speaker 2: and what made it a real Golden Age.

376
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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Next we'll be joined by Rob Bass.

377
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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, this record is a classic.

378
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Speaker 3: Thank you appreciate it.

379
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Speaker 2: Where does a record like this come from?

380
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Speaker 3: Well, I mean it was definitely like a last minute thing.

381
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 3: You know, me and DJ Easy Rock had to be

382
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Speaker 3: in the studio that night, you know, to go and

383
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Speaker 3: work on something. We ain't really have nothing ready, So

384
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Speaker 3: we went to one of our homeboy's house and he

385
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,360
Speaker 3: played a bunch of records for us and we was like, yo,

386
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 3: I like that. He said, you know, he like this,

387
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 3: and we just took both of the records and went

388
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Speaker 3: to the studio put them both together, and that's how

389
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Speaker 3: we came up with It Takes two.

390
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious. How how did you and easy Rock

391
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,879
Speaker 1: originally meet and kind of connect and start making music together.

392
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Speaker 3: Well, we met in public school, grade school. I think

393
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,159
Speaker 3: it was fifth grade. Yeah, we met in fifth grade,

394
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Speaker 3: and we used to always play you know, softball together,

395
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Speaker 3: and we hung together. And then you know, once the

396
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 3: hip hop things started, you know, coming in to play,

397
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Speaker 3: you know, we just got into that. So it was

398
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 3: like it was actually like seven of us, and we

399
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 3: was a group called a Short Shot seven when we

400
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,480
Speaker 3: first started. And then you know, as time went on,

401
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 3: you know, people just broke off and then me and

402
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 3: him just stuck together and kept going.

403
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that

404
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 1: musical chemistry that the two of you have and had

405
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 1: and when you sort of realized that the two of

406
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Speaker 1: you were creating something really special.

407
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 3: You know, we used to go to all of the

408
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 3: block parties and skating rinks and listen to what people

409
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 3: were dancing to, and we just came up we said,

410
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 3: hey man, we got to get something to make people

411
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Speaker 3: party and dance. So, you know, we got in the

412
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 3: studio and we saw certain you know, beats and rhythms

413
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 3: that they used to dance to, and we just try

414
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 3: to come up with that same type of vibe and

415
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:39,719
Speaker 3: we was actually able to do it.

416
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Speaker 2: You know, the record. It was wild that it became

417
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 2: such a huge hit, even though it's so street.

418
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we definitely we made it for the We

419
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,439
Speaker 3: made it for a Harlem and the Bronx. Basically, we

420
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,959
Speaker 3: didn't know it would go worldwide.

421
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 2: You know.

422
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 3: It was something we did and we didn't think it

423
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 3: was spread. You know, we thought it was just for

424
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 3: around the Way, and it's you know, we feel blessed

425
00:19:59,240 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 3: at it, you know.

426
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Speaker 1: I mean that year was such a big year for

427
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,439
Speaker 1: hip hop, and I mean, obviously the song changed your life.

428
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 1: When did you sort of start to realize that something

429
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: really big was happening with the song?

430
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 3: Well, when I first heard it on the radio, because

431
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 3: back then, if you get a rap record on the radio,

432
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 3: that was huge. You know, that means that the record

433
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 3: was going to kind of blow up most likely, And

434
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 3: the first time I heard it on daytime radio, I

435
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 3: knew right there, I said, we got something here, man,

436
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 3: this might go far, you know.

437
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: And do you have a favorite place that you've heard

438
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,239
Speaker 1: the song, either on a TV show or movie or

439
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: is there a place like a grocery store or something

440
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: that you've heard the song that just felt really fun

441
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: and random?

442
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 3: Well, favorite, I definitely got to say the radio radio

443
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 3: because once I heard the radio, it was it was

444
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 3: so exciting just to hear your song on the radio

445
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 3: is especially, you know, coming from you know, just struggling

446
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 3: for a few years trying to get to record on

447
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 3: the radio, and then you finally get one. That was

448
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 3: the biggest for me.

449
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 2: You know, how did the record come out?

450
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 3: We had recorded it and then we signed Profile Records

451
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 3: and they, you know, at that time, they were one

452
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 3: of the big rap labels. They had run DMC and

453
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 3: a few other big groups, and you know, once they

454
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 3: heard it, you know, an R I think his name

455
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 3: was Brian Chin. Yeah, he believed in the record and

456
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 3: they put the record out and it took a little

457
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: while before it caught on, but when it did, it

458
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 3: caught on really big.

459
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: But you said that you made it for Harlem and

460
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 2: the Bronx. What kind of record were you thinking about

461
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 2: making when you made it?

462
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 3: Well, this is something you know that you know, DJs

463
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: would play at a party, you know, something that they

464
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 3: would play on play at the party. When it first

465
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: come on, like people jump up and dance. That's why

466
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 3: you know, we started it with this slow intro and

467
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 3: then we came in with to hit it, and the

468
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: beat hit so hard that you know, once it come on,

469
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 3: people just started dancing. So it was kind of like

470
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 3: just basically a party record, party record to make people

471
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 3: get on the dance floor, you know, still does.

472
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know the video is such a love

473
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: letter to that as well. Can you tell me a

474
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: little bit about what it was like to film the

475
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: video When he did, they.

476
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 3: Didn't want to give us a video, so we had

477
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 3: to shoot the video on our own, So we put

478
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 3: up our own money and we got a camera. We

479
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 3: had a guy we met that had a camera and

480
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 3: he knew how to shoot videos a little bit, and

481
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 3: we went to one hundred and twenty fifth Street in Harlem,

482
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: set up, shot right there, went into a couple of stores.

483
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,239
Speaker 3: We just started filming. We just was filming, and then

484
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 3: people started to come jump in the video. We seen

485
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 3: Bizmocky across the street. He came across and got in

486
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 3: the video. Red Alert was walking by. He jumped in

487
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 3: the video. People got behind us. It just happened like that.

488
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 3: It was no script. We just did it the way

489
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 3: we did it.

490
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: It was such an exciting and free time in hip hop.

491
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: Yes it was, Yes, it was.

492
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 2: What was it like hearing the innovation that was going

493
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: on in eighty eight.

494
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: One thing about hip hop at that time, everybody had

495
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 3: a different style, Like it wasn't no one rapper sounding

496
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 3: like another rapper. So everybody like if you heard run DMC,

497
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 3: you knew who that was. You heard Nick Daddy Kane,

498
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 3: you know who that was. Dougy Fresh note, everybody had

499
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 3: their own style. So it was just like it was

500
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 3: a great time in hip hop when, like I said,

501
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 3: the different flavors of hip hop you could get any

502
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 3: type of hip hop you want to hear. You want

503
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: some public Enemy, you got that over here. You want

504
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 3: some Paris One, you got that over here. You want

505
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: some broad Basis right here. You know, it was an

506
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 3: amazing time.

507
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 2: Did you think that the record would last the way

508
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 2: it does over time?

509
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: No?

510
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 3: Wait, no, I never would have thought in a million

511
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 3: years that it would last as long. Because I mean

512
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: when I do concerts now, you got little kids that

513
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,959
Speaker 3: wasn't even born when the record came out, and they

514
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 3: coming up to me singing a song. So I'm like,

515
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: I'm just like I said, I felt blessed. Man. It's

516
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 3: like crazy to have these little kids that know the lyrics,

517
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: you know.

518
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, especially because this is for our five

519
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: hundred Greatest Songs of All Time podcast and list. I'm curious,

520
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: what are some of the songs that you think are

521
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: the greatest of all time?

522
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: Oh?

523
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 3: Now, that's that's pretty hard for me. The greatest of

524
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 3: all time? I gotta say one of them got to

525
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 3: be Rappers Delight Sugarhill Gang, because that was one that

526
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 3: started at all to me. You know, I would say

527
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: the message by Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five

528
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 3: should be in there, I guess, and who go soul

529
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 3: soignic I'm going back though, you know, so Sonic cos

530
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 3: playet Rock, you know, that was another one that was huge.

531
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: And then to catch up in time, I mean, it's

532
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 3: just been so many. It's just so many tone low

533
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 3: wild things, but no ice, Ice, ice baby. You know,

534
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 3: it's just so many. You know, it's so many.

535
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, hearing your record in daytime, there's

536
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 2: really a sense of hip hop was finally taking over

537
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 2: the world.

538
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: At that time. You will only hear maybe one or

539
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 3: two rap records three for the most and on the

540
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 3: daytime radio most of the time they would play hip

541
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: hop at night. So to get your record played during

542
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: the daytime least where I was living at in New York,

543
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: that was something huge. It was huge. That mean, you

544
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 3: was like one of the big groups at the time,

545
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: you know.

546
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: And you mentioned how you know, having really young kids

547
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: come up and knowing the song. I mean, this song

548
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: is still so still just one of the biggest songs

549
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: of all time and also such a big influence on

550
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: a lot of young artists and a lot of music.

551
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 1: Where do you kind of hear at the legacy of

552
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: it takes too in music today.

553
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 3: I think it's just one of those songs that's probably

554
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: just gonna stick around, and you know it's gonna it's

555
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 3: here to stay. I just see it. It's here to stay.

556
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: You know. The record it turned into such an important

557
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: part of the James Brown legend and the James Brown

558
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: connection to hip hop.

559
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: Oh definitely, definitely. You know, I grew up when I

560
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 3: was a little kid. You know, my parents used to

561
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: always play James Brown. So he to me, James Brown

562
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: has got to be one of the founder fathers of

563
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: hip hop because you know, I believe when you hear

564
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: him sing, it sounded like he rapping most of the time,

565
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 3: you know, so he definitely wanted the founder fathers.

566
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you got to that break before anybody else.

567
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 2: Everybody wanted it after you got it.

568
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, but actually, let the truth be told,

569
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 3: they were one or two other releases that used the sample,

570
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: but they didn't use it the way I used it. So,

571
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: you know our record maybe they came out maybe two

572
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 3: weeks before us, but then we came right behind and

573
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: we blew it out the water.

574
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: You know, you made it just part of the universal

575
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: universal music.

576
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, after we did it, like

577
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: a lot of rappers were coming out with the same

578
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 3: type of rhythm, same type beat at the wool. Yeah,

579
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: you know, so it was good. It was a good thing.

580
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 3: I mean actually when I first when we did the

581
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: record and when it was completed, we played it for

582
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: a few people and a lot of them were like,

583
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: I don't know about this record. It's too much woo. Yeah,

584
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 3: it's too fast.

585
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: You know.

586
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: They had a lot of complaints about it at first,

587
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,959
Speaker 3: you know, but then when it started hitting, they was like, Oh,

588
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: I knew that was going to be a hit. And

589
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: I'm looking at them like, yeah, right, look.

590
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for talking about this classic record.

591
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really appreciate it.

592
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

593
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five

594
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: hundred Greatest songs. This podcast is brought to you by

595
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted by Rob Sheffield

596
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: and Brittany Spanelstve, produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale, Christian Horde,

597
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: and Gus Wenner, and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music

598
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 2: supervision by Eric Syler.