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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Wednesday, February eighteenth, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines. Once again, we are here,

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Speaker 2: same story, still searching for Nancy Guthrie. Lots of new

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Speaker 2: developments to unpack. This story just gets scarier and stranger

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Speaker 2: and more heartbreaking each day we cover it, and sadly

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Speaker 2: there's still another twist in another turn, so we will continue.

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Speaker 3: Also, the Epstein files.

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Speaker 2: Les Wexner, who we've talked about many, many times, who

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Speaker 2: seems to be the original person the finance behind Epstein,

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Speaker 2: the financier who has really evaded Congress up until now,

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Speaker 2: has testified for the very first time before Congress in person.

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Speaker 2: So lots of discuss on that front. And again all

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Speaker 2: your legal questions about to be answered because Jarrett Farantino,

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Speaker 2: our very favorite prosecutor, is with us to answer them.

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Speaker 2: So if you want to jump in eight eight eight

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Speaker 2: three one crime, you can join us. Live, or of

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Speaker 2: course you could always just leave us a talk back.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Lei Decker here with Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 3: Body move in.

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Speaker 2: We have Taha Courtney, we have Sam and Adam. Suddenly, Adam,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't see you there for a hot second. All

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Speaker 2: in the house and yeah, lots of talkbacks to still

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Speaker 2: get to happy Ash Wednesday, and to anyone who is

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Speaker 2: you know, starting a new chapter, here's to it.

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Speaker 3: I hope you guys had a good hump day so far. Absolutely,

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Speaker 3: it's cold, I.

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Speaker 4: Know, and my power keeps going out and it's very annoying.

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Speaker 4: This is the second day in a row I've lost power.

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Speaker 4: I lost power for six hours today. What Yeah, not happy?

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Speaker 4: I am not happy without my computers. Come on, give

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Speaker 4: me a break.

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Speaker 2: Do you have generators and battery packs and all that

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff? I would imagine Listen.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't even know how to work a generator. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I don't even know. Like they're like, oh, it runs

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Speaker 4: my refrigerator, how like how does that work?

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Speaker 3: I don't even know. No, I don't have a generator.

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Speaker 5: They're expensive from what I understand, because I have a

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Speaker 5: lot of friends and family who years ago when New

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Speaker 5: York was just shut down no power for a really

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Speaker 5: long time. I'm forgetting the storm, but you've a lot

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Speaker 5: of them. I think it must have been Sandy.

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Speaker 4: I think that was one of the big ones that

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Speaker 4: hit that coast. So, yeah, it must be sandy. Everybody

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Speaker 4: seems to have them here. I don't have a I

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Speaker 4: don't have a tree in my roof. That's exciting, exciting.

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Speaker 4: It's a step in the right direction, but it is

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Speaker 4: a step. It seems like a step of many still

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Speaker 4: to come. But yeah, the power going out.

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Speaker 2: You have to have batteries, you have to have candles,

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Speaker 2: you have to have taha.

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Speaker 3: Have you packed your kit?

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Speaker 6: I have slowly started building it up, so it's a

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Speaker 6: work in progress.

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Speaker 3: That seems. I want to lie to test. I want

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Speaker 3: to you're the worst liar, I do.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Okay, I lied.

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Speaker 7: I haven't done it.

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Speaker 3: I can get.

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Speaker 4: I just don't have a generator, but I had an.

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Speaker 3: I know you're prepared.

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Speaker 7: Someone.

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Speaker 6: I feel like everyone except for me would be prepared

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Speaker 6: with that, Like it's.

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Speaker 4: One of the nice I'm going to get the backpack

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Speaker 4: and set it on the desk and show you guys

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Speaker 4: everything that's in it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Okay, I would love.

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Speaker 4: That, yes, seriously, like the wind up radio, the flashlights,

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Speaker 4: the soap, the dishes, the little campfire thing. I've got,

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Speaker 4: every illumin the iluminumlankets.

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Speaker 7: The blanket too.

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Speaker 8: Wow.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, the size of like less than a postcard.

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Speaker 5: I have a stick that breaks windows. It has as

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Speaker 5: and then you twist it and it's a fishing pole.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've got and.

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Speaker 3: You definitely could do that.

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Speaker 2: And of course don't forget you have to have cash

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Speaker 2: in case cash machines go down and we all need

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Speaker 2: to better understand what we're supposed to do if our

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Speaker 2: phones or cell phones for some reason don't work.

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Speaker 5: I have kept one thing that is still in my

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Speaker 5: wallet now, and this was from the fires that Stephanie

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Speaker 5: you know, was in obviously firsthand. But because of that,

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Speaker 5: I just keep several people's phone numbers because I don't know.

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Speaker 4: That's smart. I don't know anybody's phone number anymore.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know my mother's phone number.

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Speaker 3: Like your cell phone, Courtney Armstrong. That is the greatest

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Speaker 3: tip the phone.

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Speaker 4: How are you gonna call her?

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Speaker 5: Well, if your if one phone isn't working, but you know,

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Speaker 5: and then if you need to.

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Speaker 2: You know, at some can borrow a phone you and

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Speaker 2: yet you're able to, you know, beg for somebody's phone

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Speaker 2: who is.

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Speaker 4: Working that is online.

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Speaker 2: But if you have to do it by memory, all

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Speaker 2: of the phone numbers, even if you're your loved ones.

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Speaker 4: I think about like if I go to jail and

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Speaker 4: they're like, you get one free call?

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Speaker 9: Who am I?

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Speaker 4: Who am I gonna call my phone number?

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna call Jared Barentino. I actually want to put it.

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Speaker 7: I'm not I'm not goodding.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna ask him.

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Speaker 2: I know he's a prosecutor. Totally called me. I would

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Speaker 2: be excellent in those situations. Yes, I might not pick

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Speaker 2: up that in the middle of the night. Well I would, Yes,

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Speaker 2: I'll jail you need.

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Speaker 4: To pick it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll totally pick it up. I will pick it up,

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Speaker 2: and I will be there with bells on so I

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Speaker 2: can love the word.

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Speaker 4: We should probably start the show right with the talkback.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it.

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Speaker 10: Hey, my name is I'm calling from Los Angeles, PELI

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Speaker 10: fund I want to leave bat on the Nancy got

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Speaker 10: three case.

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Speaker 11: It's been a month now.

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Speaker 10: I hate to say it, but without medicine, cup care,

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Speaker 10: I don't think she's a liar anymore. Needless to say,

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Speaker 10: the family wants the body back, but I mean, how

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Speaker 10: can the police release the family without a body. You

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Speaker 10: need a body to release people. Don't you have a

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Speaker 10: good day, guys?

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Speaker 12: OK?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I find that very strange that anybody's been cleared without

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Speaker 4: without Nancy's physical presence, right without her body, without her mind,

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Speaker 4: without something. I'm I find it very surprising that anybody's

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Speaker 4: been cleared. And I read today Bryan Enton said that

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Speaker 4: police are clearing people with polygraphs. BO that's what i've

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Speaker 4: of course, you can't listen. I don't know if it's

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Speaker 4: the Sheriff's office. I don't know if it's the FBI.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if it's the media. But I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm in a psyop right now with the Nancy

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Speaker 4: three case.

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Speaker 2: No, it almost feels I know it's not fake, of course,

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Speaker 2: of course that's obvious, but to me, it is reading

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Speaker 2: something about it is feeling it authentic. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know what it is. I can't get a read on it.

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Speaker 2: And maybe it's just because there's the weird glove that

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Speaker 2: just suddenly appeared so close.

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Speaker 3: To and it's suddenly so addressed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and now it's like this has all the info

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Speaker 2: and it's DNA and it's the wrong place. I had

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Speaker 2: read an article, but I don't know what's real and

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Speaker 2: what's not real. That perhaps this particular Sheriff's department is

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Speaker 2: doing a TV show is not accurate.

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Speaker 3: It is that cannot be accurate.

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Speaker 4: No, it is accurate. I think it's on A and E.

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Speaker 4: And it's called like Desert Justice or something like that.

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Speaker 2: The sheriff that I'm watching every single day that's crosshairs with.

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Speaker 7: Chris.

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Speaker 2: The jurisdiction issues in all the things with DNA and

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Speaker 2: sending things.

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Speaker 3: To a special lab is a bit of a showman.

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Speaker 2: Really, See this brings that brings a layer to it

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Speaker 2: that I'm not sure I appreciate.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I missed that news entirely today.

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Speaker 5: Do we know if cameras are allowed to be capturing

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Speaker 5: anything involving the three case?

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Speaker 6: This was a I think they take this show already,

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Speaker 6: so it's airing and seeing what was I think it

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Speaker 6: was shot in the fall and winter, so we're seeing

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry it was it was shot in the winter

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Speaker 6: of last year, so it's all done. We're seeing episodes

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Speaker 6: that have been shot.

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Speaker 2: So savannahs Guthrie's mom from Me to the Today Show

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Speaker 2: on NBC America's Treasure in Sweetheart and her mom lives

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Speaker 2: in a town that happens to be shooting a TV show.

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Speaker 2: But I've never heard that before though. Does that seems

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Speaker 2: strange to anybody really?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean first.

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Speaker 4: Offers, yeah, being good point, yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't, particularly because the sheriff himself, who I quite enjoy,

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Speaker 2: has gotten dinged in the public or there certainly has

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Speaker 2: been quite a bit of chatter that he's a bit

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Speaker 2: of a showman and is confusing the investigation and might

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Speaker 2: be part of the issue. I find him quite informed

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Speaker 2: and engaging, so take this with a grain of salt,

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Speaker 2: but that would explain it.

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Speaker 4: I know that a lot of people were very upset

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Speaker 4: with him.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Brian Enton did like a sit down interview with him,

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Speaker 4: and the sheriff got kind of The sheriff got kind

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Speaker 4: of snippy with him about the coverage exactly. And listen,

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Speaker 4: if there's one thing that you do not want to

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Speaker 4: do to piss off a bunch of true crime people

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Speaker 4: is be snippy with Brian Nenton talk about it his

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Speaker 4: news daddy, and we all appreciate him and.

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Speaker 3: How everybody loves him. Everybody. He hasn't slept, but the sheriff.

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Speaker 2: My takeaway from that was I saw it was like

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Speaker 2: not to our Brian Enton.

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Speaker 3: But they are all very tired. They are everyone's exhausted

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Speaker 3: head a knight's rest.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Today's the eighteenth day of this exhaustive search they've

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Speaker 4: been doing for Nancy.

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Speaker 3: Again.

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Speaker 4: She was last seen at her Tucson, Arizona home on

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Speaker 4: January thirty first, So it's been eighteen days over half

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Speaker 4: a month, right, in this large scale investigation. They've got

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Speaker 4: to be tired, They've got to be exhausted. Investigators do

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Speaker 4: believe she was abducted due to blood that was found

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Speaker 4: on the scene and a suspect that was captured on

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Speaker 4: that nest footage. And today it came out that the

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Speaker 4: reportedly the FBI contacted Mexican authorities about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.

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Speaker 4: A Mexican official said that an alleged purchase related to

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Speaker 4: the case has already been ruled out by the FBI.

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Speaker 4: A purchase Mexico, What what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: What do you remember? What does that mean? So?

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Speaker 2: Everyone's being very vague, and again we're back to this

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction issue now we're talking Mexico. I believe both of

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Speaker 2: you said this day one that there was probably a

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Speaker 2: very real possibility that if in fact this was a

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Speaker 2: professional assassination job in any way, even if it was

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Speaker 2: just for some fast cash, they would be across the

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Speaker 2: border because Tucson, you know, in case you're pour away

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Speaker 2: the area, it's not Yeah, it's a very reasonable drive.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: That wouldn't be a great scenario because again, the reciprocity

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Speaker 2: between law enforcement from Mexico to the US, you know,

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Speaker 2: can be questionable depending upon who you ask, right, So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: here we are, we're hearing about this now weeks later.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so Internets loose too have fueled speculation, you know,

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Speaker 4: and it's the representative, the one that you know, wasn't

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Speaker 4: getting sworn in by Congress when the session was shut down.

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Speaker 4: Adalita Gravalla, she said, I do think that it's hurting

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Speaker 4: the investigation. We really do wish that they would let

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Speaker 4: law enforcement do their job and listen, I have to

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Speaker 4: defend the Internet loose this a little bit like.

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Speaker 3: They're asking for the Internet sloth's help.

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Speaker 4: I That's exactly what I was going to say, Like

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Speaker 4: they've made public please, like do you want us to

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Speaker 4: help or not?

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Speaker 3: You can't have it both ways. You can have it.

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Speaker 4: You can't eat your cake and have it too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 2: And you cannot say listen and know you know, if

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Speaker 2: you see it, say something and then expect people to

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Speaker 2: understand what the filter should be to not you know, listen,

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Speaker 2: don't call to say hey, great work and high five

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Speaker 2: to law enforcement and leave you know, messages of cheer

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Speaker 2: that might clog the system. Don't leave an intentional misinformation

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Speaker 2: that would be really a clog.

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Speaker 3: Of the system.

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Speaker 2: And you know, don't make any pranks, silly things that

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Speaker 2: seem like a funny idea in the moment, not funny

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Speaker 2: when you're underserved. Law enforcement department has you know, real

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Speaker 2: business to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, another another thing. To a CBS correspondent Brianna Whitney,

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Speaker 4: did you guys see this? She reported, some investigators believe

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Speaker 4: that this was a burglary going wrong, and it's so

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Speaker 4: interesting to me, And she said that this is based

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Speaker 4: on investigative findings. Okay, they that suggests that they didn't

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Speaker 4: target Nancy, right, and if you look at the nest footage,

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Speaker 4: when the suspect is approaching the door, he kind of

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Speaker 4: has like a bald up fist and it looks like

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Speaker 4: just for a moment, if you go watch it, go

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Speaker 4: do it right now, guys, go watch it. It looks

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Speaker 4: like he's getting ready to knock on the door, and

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Speaker 4: then he notices the ring camera and his fist kind

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Speaker 4: of turns and he starts to mess with it. It

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Speaker 4: kind of looks like he's getting ready to knock on

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Speaker 4: the door.

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Speaker 3: That could be what could very well be.

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Speaker 2: So if he's going and looking at the nest camera,

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Speaker 2: because I'm still not convinced that it wasn't two perpetrators,

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Speaker 2: and that the person on the next camera that we

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Speaker 2: keep seeing was either a distractor or somebody who was

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Speaker 2: just gonna cover the somebody might have been inside already,

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Speaker 2: and that's why we have that weird time, you know,

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Speaker 2: issue that we're always trying to solve. That would also

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Speaker 2: mean that that person may have in fact snuck.

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Speaker 3: Through the garage.

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Speaker 2: I know we'll never really know the answer from that,

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Speaker 2: but I did get that from such interesting sourcing, so anyway,

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Speaker 2: it's not we don't know the answer is really what's

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Speaker 2: the most undeniable part? And you know, are we misusing?

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Speaker 3: I don't know the answer. I don't know.

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Speaker 5: Well, at least we know or appear to know that

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Speaker 5: the FBI they have some list of suspects because they

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Speaker 5: visited a local gun shop owner and Tucson and gave

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Speaker 5: him a list to say, hey, do any of these

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Speaker 5: individuals did they purchase something?

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Speaker 3: So there are leads that are being followed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and he did confirm too that none of the

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Speaker 4: names that the FBI showed him bought a from his place.

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Speaker 4: But can't we just look at the background checks that

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Speaker 4: we're made exactly?

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Speaker 2: This is why you just think the background nothing makes

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Speaker 2: sense such a simple solve.

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Speaker 3: Nothing makes sense to me. Wow, you know.

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Speaker 4: But the one thing too about the robbery, like the

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Speaker 4: guy had a full bathpack, Like what's he robin?

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Speaker 3: What's he taken? Oh, I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

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Speaker 13: Man.

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Speaker 5: Well, we'll keep following like the rest of the world.

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Speaker 5: And you know this, we're all just wishing for the

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Speaker 5: safe return of Nancy Guthrie. Stick around because coming up

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Speaker 5: a missing grandmother case takes a really unexpected turn and

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Speaker 5: the officer involved joins us live keep it here True

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Speaker 5: Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So, Boddy, we were

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Speaker 2: trying to do some special for you what and this

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Speaker 2: has been a plan gone awry because listen, this Nancy

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Speaker 2: Guthrie case has gotten us all so just so sad,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like the whole world is invested at

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Speaker 2: this point. Certainly the whole country is invested. We all

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Speaker 2: want her safe return. And then you know, we had

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Speaker 2: highlighted another senior case and you know, Courtney was so

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Speaker 2: great to be able to take the reins on that.

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Speaker 3: So court do you want to Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Are you talking about Okay, So we did cover this

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Speaker 5: case and going out of Florida, right, Yeah, sixty nine

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Speaker 5: year old grandmother went missing in Coral Springs, Florida.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and you know police everyone was very upset.

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Speaker 5: She was missing right for I think more than two

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Speaker 5: weeks last January thirtieth.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, my name is Denise Damus.

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Speaker 2: Theenis exactly and because of the great proutsourcing and getting

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Speaker 2: the word out.

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Speaker 3: We have somebody very special on the line.

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Speaker 4: We do what okay, what's the surprise? What's happening right now?

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Speaker 3: We're the worst at this, TAH. You are you?

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Speaker 4: First of all, I don't know what's going on?

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Speaker 3: What is happening? Is okay?

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Speaker 2: So well, Yes, we have a very special, big reveal

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Speaker 2: thanks to the extraordinary crowd sourcing of just basically you know,

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Speaker 2: the true crime audience who are so smart and savvy.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have some success to report on that case,

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Speaker 2: and I know she'll be joining as a police officer,

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Speaker 2: and also some really interesting tips to share for anyone

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Speaker 2: who may find themselves in a scenario where a loved

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Speaker 2: one or an elder is missing, like some tips on

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Speaker 2: what to do.

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Speaker 5: Oh, that's great, Officer Lisa Marie Valletta Veloda, Hi, Hi.

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Speaker 11: Thank you guys so much for having me.

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Speaker 12: I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this tonight.

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Speaker 4: Is this my surprise?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Oh okay.

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Speaker 2: Only you could jump out of a box right now

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Speaker 2: and go surprise holding confetti.

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Speaker 3: Only that would make this surprise better.

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Speaker 2: TAHA has been like prepping us all day about how

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Speaker 2: we're going to introduce you as a surprise to Body,

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Speaker 2: and we've like had to talk through it a few times,

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Speaker 2: right Courtney as my witness, and then right before we

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Speaker 2: got on he told everybody the surprise with Body on

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Speaker 2: the call.

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Speaker 5: Well, I want to hear, Officer, what happened, give us

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Speaker 5: the details.

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Speaker 3: We're so excited. Congratulations.

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Speaker 11: Oh thank you. So just give you guys a quick

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Speaker 11: case update.

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Speaker 12: In this particular case, she was located, she's safe, she's unharmed,

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Speaker 12: she was checked at a local hospital, found to be

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Speaker 12: in good health.

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Speaker 11: And reunited with a family.

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Speaker 12: Out of respect for her privacy and because it was

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Speaker 12: an active investigation, no further details will be shared. But

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Speaker 12: this case is a good example of how early reporting, coordination,

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Speaker 12: and community awareness can lead to positive outcomes in missing

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Speaker 12: persons cases.

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Speaker 3: Oh good.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so grateful that she was found and reunited

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Speaker 4: with her family, because it was really scary. She you know,

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Speaker 4: she has some medical concerns and she had some cognitive decline,

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Speaker 4: so we were really concerned about her. And you know,

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Speaker 4: it's cold, and even in Florida, it's going to me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, my friend in Tampa it was snowing. So

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Speaker 4: I'm really grateful and so grateful for your service in

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Speaker 4: locating Miss Lanice. So thank you so much, Auch.

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Speaker 11: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 12: Oh, thank you again, thank you for having me. So

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Speaker 12: I just wanted to go over some key points to

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Speaker 12: share with people because I think that there's a lot

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Speaker 12: of misunderstanding and miscommunication.

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Speaker 11: In there around people.

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Speaker 12: So one of the main things I would like to

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Speaker 12: put out there is that there is no twenty four

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Speaker 12: hour waiting period. And one of the biggest myths that

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Speaker 12: families see or people here is that they have to

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Speaker 12: wait twenty four hours before reporting someone missing. That's not

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Speaker 12: true at all. If someone is missing and it's out

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Speaker 12: of character, you should call law enforcement immediately. Time matters

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Speaker 12: in these investigations, especially if there's any concern for foul play,

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Speaker 12: medical issues, mental health concerns, dementia or autism. The sooner

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Speaker 12: that police are notified, the sooner resource can be activated.

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Speaker 12: So early police involvement is critical if foul play is suspected.

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Speaker 12: Contacting law enforcement right away allows US officers.

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Speaker 11: To do what we need to do. It gives us

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Speaker 11: the opportunity to preserve.

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Speaker 12: Time sensitive information, identify last known locations where they may

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Speaker 12: have been. We can start canvassing information, sharing early on.

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Speaker 12: Waiting causes unnecessary to leave and you know could basically

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Speaker 12: we would lose critical leads. So some of the things

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Speaker 12: that families can do is being ready with good information

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Speaker 12: right we can. We always rely on the family, So

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Speaker 12: a current photo of clear physical description, clothing that they

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Speaker 12: were lasting wearing, places the person is known to frequent,

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Speaker 12: known routes, routines, habits like in this case, one of

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Speaker 12: the key things that helped us was she was known

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Speaker 12: to take a specific route and because she didn't go

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Speaker 12: that way, we were able to you know, come up

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Speaker 12: with more for this investigation on trying to find her whereabouts.

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Speaker 12: So the more accurate the information is, the faster it

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Speaker 12: can be shared with officers, other agencies, and the public.

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Speaker 12: Some of the special considerations that we have for vulnerable

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Speaker 12: individuals would be if a loved one is autistic, if

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Speaker 12: they're living with dementia, they're experiencing a mental health crisis

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Speaker 12: or challenges, if they're known to wander, that information is

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Speaker 12: extremely important for responding officers to know right away.

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Speaker 4: Now people are known to a lobe. Right if you artistic,

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Speaker 4: you're known to a lobe. So having that information handy

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Speaker 4: and ready to go is probably a good.

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Speaker 12: Idea, absolutely, and a lot of a lot of people.

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Speaker 12: I've actually tried not to use the lope, but I'm

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Speaker 12: glad you brought that word up because that is one

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Speaker 12: hundred percent what law enforcement recognizes it as, and that's

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Speaker 12: you know, they may wander off and knowing if that

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Speaker 12: person can swim is it's a key thing that we

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Speaker 12: want to know so that we're checking waterways. Families will

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Speaker 12: use preventative tools that I've learned along the way, tracking devices.

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Speaker 12: For example, if you have a family member who's of

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Speaker 12: one of these, you know, mentally health challenged or living

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Speaker 12: with dementia, you could put an air tag in their shoe.

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Speaker 12: There are ID bracelets or tags or necklaces. My specific

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Speaker 12: department has a program called angel Sense that's something that

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Speaker 12: people can look into. Most of that is funded through

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Speaker 12: donations from people, So it is good and I think

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Speaker 12: that if people got in contact with their local longforcement agencies,

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Speaker 12: they'd be surprised to find out some of the resources

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Speaker 12: that we have that are prevented in so using your

446
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 12: local local law enforcement resources, Like I said, many many

447
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 12: agencies have voluntary databases. Families can preregister love ones who

448
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 12: may be at higher risk and in the databases can

449
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 12: include photos, medical or behavioral information, emergency contacts. Our department

450
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 12: has that and it's great immediately when I'm out on patrol.

451
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 12: If I am in a certain sector or area and

452
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 12: a person that is low listener at database goes missing,

453
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 12: I can pull that information up quickly and it gives

454
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 12: us just a blueprint for where they may be, where

455
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 12: they may frequent, what you know might happen because sometimes

456
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 12: people with autism, you know, the lights might be too

457
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 12: much for them, they may run off if.

458
00:23:59,080 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 11: They see long enforce.

459
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 12: Sure, those are things that are important, So I think

460
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 12: those things are important. Social media which helps in this case.

461
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 12: Social media matters and people have to realize it's a

462
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 12: powerful tool in missing person cases. If information is shared responsibly,

463
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 12: it reaches more eyes quickly, tips come in faster, communities

464
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 12: become extra set of eyes. And the key is sharing

465
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 12: has to be accurate, verified information, and updating the posts

466
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 12: when new information becomes available.

467
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, this is also helpful.

468
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 5: Can I ask for clarification on two things just to

469
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 5: make sure I'm understanding and everyone else's so two different questions. One,

470
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 5: can you please repeat or describe how people would preregister

471
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 5: if they have someone with you some sort of special capacities.

472
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: So how do you preregister? Because that sounds so smart?

473
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 5: And two eloping, is there anything else I'd never heard

474
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 5: that word before today. Any something else we need to

475
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 5: know about that.

476
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 12: So with pre registering, it would be basically local law enforcement.

477
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 12: You would have to go to your local agency to

478
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 12: determine for your area wherever you live, if they have databases,

479
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 12: if they have resources. There are a lot of smaller

480
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 12: agencies in the country that may not have the resources,

481
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 12: but this would be a good thing for you going

482
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 12: to the agency finding out what they have available, and

483
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 12: if something isn't available, maybe working with the community leaders

484
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 12: or law enforcement leaders to get something going. So our

485
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 12: particular agency, we just have a database our residents if

486
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 12: we come across anyone in the community that we feel

487
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 12: would be good to be entered in, whether it's someone

488
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 12: with dementia or Alzheimer's or autism or mental health issue,

489
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 12: and they're known to as you mentioned, eloping is wandering,

490
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 12: or they just run away and run off. It is

491
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 12: important that details in there exists, such as you know

492
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 12: what triggers they may have, what their level of cognitive ability,

493
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 12: is some people are when they're autistic, are non verbal,

494
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 12: so that might be something that's important for officers to

495
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 12: know if a person has a disability where they're they're

496
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 12: herd of hearing or their death or a language barrier.

497
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 12: Part of the issue with this this previous case was

498
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 12: there was a language barrier. So these things are important.

499
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: Such good information changing tracks.

500
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 5: If I'm a little birdie named Taha suggested you might

501
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 5: be a fan of Don't f with Cats.

502
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 11: Oh God, it was so great.

503
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 12: I love that.

504
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 11: I loved it. It was that it's.

505
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 12: Literally it was one of the first.

506
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 11: First documentaries that I watched. I remember specifically I had

507
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 11: mentioned to him earlier. I did use to work for

508
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 11: another very big long.

509
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 12: Enforce and agency in the northern part of the country

510
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 12: out of New York, and I specifically remember in that

511
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 12: documentary aired watching it with a couple of coworkers and

512
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 12: its phenomenal.

513
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 11: It's phenomenal.

514
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 12: I'm a big advocate of animals. I fostered dogs and

515
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 12: that was just amazing, awesome work. And again, us in

516
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 12: law enforcement, we need people.

517
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 11: We need people to be nosy and to help us.

518
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 11: I mean, that's just sure, that's great.

519
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 12: And one of my other other favorite podcasts is my

520
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 12: Favorite Murders. Oh yeah, another one that's just bring an awareness.

521
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 11: You have to bring awareness.

522
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: Well, the feeling is mutual. I'm a big fan of you.

523
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 4: I'm a big fan. Thanks, so thank you for that.

524
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 4: By the way, Officer, I'm a big fan of you.

525
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: I'm a big fan that you found this grandmother who

526
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 4: is loved when she's safe. And bless you for your

527
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 4: thank you for your service. You know, I mean for real,

528
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 4: this is by you, by the way, thank you, thank you,

529
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 4: thank you, and thank you so much for the update

530
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 4: because I'm so happy she was found. We were so worried.

531
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: Incredible.

532
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: Yes, it's bless you. I'm so wlady founder, it's incredible.

533
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, it's bringing thank you all the news and

534
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: some real actionable news and we're crazy for you.

535
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: So keep up the great work and we're so grateful

536
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 3: that we got.

537
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: To you know, just share this with you guys, and then.

538
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, really quick too, Court you had mentioned about the

539
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 4: elopement and the reason I mentioned it is eloping in autism.

540
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: It's it's specific to autism, and they use eloping instead

541
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 4: of running away because running away implies that something happened

542
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 4: at the home, right when you elope, it's more like

543
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: an act or of not necessarily commuting, communicating distress in

544
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 4: the home or anything like that, But it's a need

545
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 4: to escape some kind of sensory overload or some kind

546
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 4: of compulsion. Right, it could so instead of saying this

547
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 4: kid ran away, which does imply something happened at the

548
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 4: home and it's a terrible home, and what they use

549
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 4: elopement because it's unique to kids with autism.

550
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: I had never Okay, I'm so glad you Yeah, I

551
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: just wanted to.

552
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 4: I just wanted I didn't know that wasn't a thing

553
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 4: that that people didn't know. But yeah, I follow a

554
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: lot of missing kids cases that have autism, and a

555
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: lot of them do a lope and just to pursue

556
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 4: something like this, like their favorite animal they see, or

557
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 4: or there is a sensory overload and they just wander off.

558
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 4: Many of them are attracted to water, which is why

559
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: the officer was talking about swimming well, Braintip.

560
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 2: That is so, I just wanted to be able to

561
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: have that information nearby in case of an emergency. When

562
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: you're a little flustered, you don't remember seeings so clearly right,

563
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: you don't recall the license plate or what exactly they

564
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: were wearing, et cetera.

565
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: And it's so hard to when families, especially with children,

566
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 4: if your children does elope or go missing, how are

567
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 4: you going to keep it together? To the police, right,

568
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: how are you going to keep it together? So it's

569
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: also not necessarily a bad idea to have someone who

570
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 4: also is close to your family, who knows your child

571
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 4: and whatnot, know those details so that they can also

572
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 4: help communicate to the police right and writing it down.

573
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 4: Note it's very smart in the preregistering. As the officer

574
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 4: walked us through. Oh, I didn't know you could do that.

575
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 5: I didn't know that, And I think you're right even

576
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 5: with you know, if you have little kids, you know

577
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 5: many people have done been through this. And Stephan and

578
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 5: I have talked about it, losing your kid even for

579
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 5: I'm talking seconds or minutes in a cart.

580
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: Excuse me, in a store, you lose a toddler? Like,

581
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: can you? Oh my god, it's happened. I mean so

582
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: so nothing must be hell on earth.

583
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Dare I say for someone to be missing their child,

584
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. So, you know, lots of eyes

585
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: out there, let's help and I certainly for elders, you know,

586
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 2: the same role applies.

587
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I went missing in a kmart when I

588
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 4: was like six, and I remember hearing my name overhead

589
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: to the front lanes. My name and to the front lanes,

590
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: and I was like, I'm in trouble.

591
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: Hide in that clothing rack.

592
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 7: I was.

593
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 5: I lost in Madison Square Garden. Oh that's a big deal.

594
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 5: I was in second grade. We were seeing snorks on

595
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 5: ice and my sister lost me.

596
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: She's eight years older.

597
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 12: Aaron.

598
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: If you're listening, he's in trouble. I was terrible losing you. Wow, listen,

599
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: Courtney's naughty tonight. Just let the record show that she

600
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: is up to no good. And right around this time

601
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: she gets to church giggles and then I get them.

602
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: But somehow I'm the one that gets in trouble. But anyway,

603
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: terrible launch on my part, surprising body with all this

604
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: great crowdsourcing news.

605
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: I loved it. I'm sorry that should have been a

606
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: better reveal. I apologize.

607
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: I loved it. Now I'm the officer who found her.

608
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 4: I mean, that's just so great. I loved the reveal.

609
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: I don't care what you say. I loved that and

610
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: I think listeners will like it too. I do too,

611
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 4: good job, I'm sorry, great choked up.

612
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: And Court mey is she has questions because again, nobody

613
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: really knows this because it hasn't been everywhere in the

614
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: news today, but it is getting covered that.

615
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: You know Les Wexner, who is allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

616
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: One of the several co conspirators in the Epstein saga.

617
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: He is a member of what they call the Epstein Class.

618
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: One of the names that had been released with his

619
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: name specifically continued to be redacted. Then it was unredacted

620
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: forty minutes later, and look his name comes up maybe

621
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: one thousand times, a very wealthy man in Ohio. He's

622
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: the guy that started the Limited and Victoria's secret, all

623
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: of the Frankly, all of the Abercambrie and Fitch, all

624
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: of the clothes that shaped a generation, a generation of

625
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: young girls. So he testified today before Congress Court. Do

626
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: you want to give a little info because Jared Barantino,

627
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: our favorite prosecutor, is.

628
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: Here to discuss.

629
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 5: Yes, I do, so we have all the information, Stephanie said.

630
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: This guy is loaded down with cash running empires, and

631
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 5: he hired Jeffrey Ebstein without a college degree, hired Jeffrey

632
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 5: Epstein as a financial advisor in the late eighties.

633
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: Okay, come to nineteen ninety one.

634
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 5: This guy les Wexer gave Ebstein sweeping control of his finances.

635
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 5: I mean up to the point of having power of authority,

636
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 5: which excuse me, power power attorney.

637
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: So power of attorney, meaning this guy's worth billions of dollars,

638
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: is a billionaire. And now here comes Jeffrey Epstein, this young,

639
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: you know, you know, not educated financier with kind of

640
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: a sketch background in terms of his how he was

641
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: rising through the ranks in the financial sector. But apparently

642
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: Les Wexner was the reason why.

643
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so in the in the files, the Epstein

644
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 5: files that have come out, so many questions have been

645
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 5: raised of the extent of what Les Wexner knew in

646
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 5: Jeff about Jeffrey Epstein's illegal activity. Jarrett Farantino, not to

647
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 5: put you on the spot, but this guy Wexner, he's saying,

648
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 5: I don't know anything. So when does I don't know

649
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 5: become wilful blindness in the eyes of the law.

650
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 7: Well, good evening, it's great to be right. Yeah, yeah,

651
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 7: So when does wilful blindness become illegal? Almost we always

652
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 7: call it deliberate ignorance. Right, you're just burying your head

653
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 7: in the sand, and you look at somebody like Lex

654
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 7: in this case and you say, it's another billionaire babe

655
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 7: lost in the woods. Right. This is someone who built

656
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 7: an empire, not someone who is foolish, not someone who

657
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 7: he's no fool, okay, And he gives power of attorney

658
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 7: to Jeffrey Epstein. There were a lot of questions before

659
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 7: this three million page tranch came out. People would say,

660
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 7: where did Epstein's money come from? Who invested? Lex Westerner

661
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 7: is always the name you hear first. He was his

662
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 7: biggest client, if not the biggest, certainly one of the biggest.

663
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 7: Now it's come out that he actually gave power of

664
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 7: attorney to Jeffrey Epstein, which means on financial matters, Jeffrey

665
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 7: Epstein stands in the shoes of Lex western Welexner, which

666
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 7: is a huge I mean, just think about it. Who

667
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 7: would you do that with. There are people that wouldn't

668
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 7: trust spouse, so you can imagine before a billionaire does that.

669
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 7: This is someone who is vetted before someone hires for

670
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 7: Lex Westerner's security, they're vetted. Okay, so you sign power

671
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 7: of attorney over to Epstein, you give him control of

672
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 7: your finances, and wow, here we are, all these years later.

673
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 7: Lexner's being asked these questions and he's saying, I didn't

674
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 7: know this about Jeffrey Epstein. I didn't know that about him.

675
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 7: They appear to have been very close, very professionally close

676
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 7: and personally close. And it's just, you know, everybody runs now,

677
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 7: and I get it. I get what he's trying to say.

678
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 7: But follow the money, follow the authority that he was given.

679
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 7: And that's how you do it. You look at these

680
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 7: and to answer your question, Courtney, that was a long answer.

681
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 7: To get to this, you look for the red flags

682
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 7: that were deliberately ignored. You look for the nature of

683
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 7: the relationship, look for communications like emails, all this stuff,

684
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 7: and start to say to yourself, either you're an idiot,

685
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 7: which does not appear to be the case, or you

686
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 7: knew or you were deliberately ignorant. And that is also

687
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 7: actionable if you say, you buried your head in the

688
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 7: sand to ignore the fact that there were children being

689
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 7: hurt here. Jeffrey Epstein was misappropriating funds to avoid culpability

690
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 7: for yourself when that happens. That's actionable too.

691
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: And we're saying, like, you know, forty two million dollars

692
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 2: or something, He's like, you know, Les Wexner was saying

693
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: that basically, yeah, he got conned, and that Epstein was

694
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: this charismatic, exceptional con artist and like so many, he

695
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: was frankly connd who gets cons out of that much

696
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: money and doesn't choose to press charges?

697
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 3: To me, this is netwhere.

698
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: This is my personal opinion only opinion, opinion opinion, and I.

699
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: Reserve the right to change it.

700
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: It seems to me the story in my head has

701
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: always been, Wow, he must have had what was.

702
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 3: The blackmail on him?

703
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: My working theory has always been, as you know, I'm

704
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 2: sure you've all been nauseated to hear about it to

705
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: for the last months and months, is that this guy

706
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: Epstein was certainly working as a spy or a double

707
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: agent in some way, and as wild as that sounds,

708
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: it's proving to be true. He was getting funded from somewhere.

709
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 2: He may have been playing all sides, including this guy.

710
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: That's very possible, or he had some jury blackmail on

711
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: this guy, and maybe you know, there's rumors everywhere. But

712
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: this was a married man who was hyper successful. He

713
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: somehow is attached to this university hospital in Ohio. There

714
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: is an obg yn who was on staff at said hospital.

715
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: You know, there is some there's some stuff to explain.

716
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 7: There's no doubt. And if you look, he even gave

717
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 7: him that house in New York. Who's handing houses out

718
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 7: and like, so okay. So when I look at that

719
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 7: as a prosecutor, I start to say to myself, now, something,

720
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 7: if we have the smell test, if it smells bad,

721
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 7: it probably is bad. This stinks, you know, I mean,

722
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 7: let's let's face it. And you know, when you look

723
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 7: at this, you start to say to yourself, when does

724
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 7: ignorance become unreasonable and threats? And in this case, I'm sorry,

725
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 7: it is. And you can't ignore the fact that Wexer

726
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 7: built his billions on a lingerie empire like and this

727
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 7: is somebody tied to one of the One of the

728
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 7: ruses that Epstein used was I am an avenue for

729
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 7: a modeling career. How am I own avenue for a

730
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 7: modeling career? Well, Lex Wexner is my client. He may

731
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 7: be present with me at events. That's another issue like

732
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 7: it's like that he wore him like a badge of honor.

733
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: Do you remember back in those days the victorious secret

734
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: models and just the modeling agent and do you remember

735
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: the Abercrombie and Fitch stage that we were.

736
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: All in with the low rise and the high top.

737
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 4: Can I just play Devil's advocate for just a moment

738
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: and listen, I'm not here to stand up for billionaires.

739
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 4: They don't need, you know, in any capacity. But Lex Westerner,

740
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 4: Wexner cut ties with Jeffrey Epstein before he got convicted

741
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 4: in two thousand and seven, because we know Jeffrey Epstein

742
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 4: in Florida was convicted in two thousand and eight.

743
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 3: Is that right? Do I have that timeline right? Okay?

744
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 4: Is it possible that Lex Westerner did not file charges

745
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 4: on this, you know, stealing of money because he was

746
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 4: embarrassed and he got conned. I mean, this billionaire with

747
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 4: this financial and business empire got just conned by this

748
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 4: scumbag that could because this all happened prior to it

749
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 4: coming out that this hapen, that Jeffrey Epson was a

750
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 4: sex offender, so he they're.

751
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 7: Saying why they're saying it all happened prior to a

752
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 7: and body. That's a great point because people won't have

753
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 7: the kind of confidence in investing with Webner if they

754
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 7: see he is the victim of a scam. But the

755
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 7: big thing they're all saying is he got a double

756
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 7: eye cut ties. Okay, but there is a a a

757
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 7: long standing reputation problem with Jeffrey Epstein. Wherever he was

758
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 7: there were problems, whether it be financial irregularities, issues with investments,

759
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 7: or the problems with women running throughout. So I understand

760
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 7: what he's trying to say is he got in trouble.

761
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 7: I cut ties with him prior to that, but there

762
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 7: was a long standing, decades, long standing history of problems here, gotcha,

763
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 7: he would have had to have been ignoring.

764
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: And by the way, and many of those problems that

765
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: are being speculated are of abuse as well, like a

766
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: Virginia Guffrey, who obviously wrote the memoir in his A

767
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 2: poster Child and face really of this case, claims that

768
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: she was personally trafficked to him, from Jeffrey Epstein to

769
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 2: this Leslie Wexner. And you know that she was, you know,

770
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 2: being frankly trafficked by him, So that would make him

771
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: a co conspirator and frankly one of the co conspirators

772
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 2: who may have been covered in his two thousand and

773
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: eight deal that he made with alex Acosta that prevented

774
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: his co conspirators from being tried.

775
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 4: So you think he was part of that umbrella of prote.

776
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: He is, he lay Maxwell and don't forget. For some reason,

777
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: people were enamored with this guy. So let's just you know,

778
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: it's been speculated. Again, this is speculation. It was said

779
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 2: in this documentary as well that Lisa Bryant, who's been

780
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: here many times, she was one of the executive producers

781
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: and directed it. You know, basically that Jeffrey Epstein kind

782
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 2: of played all sides and that you know, Wexner was

783
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: like obsessed with him, and maybe there was some sort

784
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 2: of adulterous relationship between them, and he was a married man,

785
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: and maybe Jeffrey Epstein had tape on him or some

786
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: sort of blackmail for that. Maybe there was something there,

787
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: or they were just enamored with him and wanted to

788
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 2: feed his insatiable need for more young women, or they

789
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: were just financially benefiting from the big business of selling

790
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 2: and trafficking young people worldwide. Right, But also in terms

791
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 2: of his and I know you're playing Devil's advocate body,

792
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah no, but okay, going back to nineteen ninety six,

793
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: Maria Farmer, who has been an outspoken survivor, she reported

794
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: being violently assaulted by Epstein and Maxwell and guess what

795
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: this was on one of Wexner's his huge Ohio estate.

796
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: Oh and Wexner's own security reportedly detained her afterwards.

797
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 3: Ok, Jared, what is that? What does that tell you? Legally?

798
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 7: Well, it suggests to me that Wexner would have knowledge

799
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 7: of the kind of person that Epstein was in the

800
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 7: crimes he was committing. Those are the kind of things

801
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 7: you would look at when you were examining somebody's life

802
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 7: and they start to say I didn't know, and it's like, well,

803
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 7: you should have known, which is a civil deal could

804
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 7: be criminal, or you dann well knew your own security

805
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 7: team detained this young woman who was screaming, you know,

806
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 7: whatever the situation was when she was And that's how

807
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 7: it's listed violently assaulted. But he had a power over

808
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 7: Epstein seemed to have a power over people. If you

809
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 7: look at like the soil, send him an email, send

810
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 7: him an email like contemplating whether or not there is

811
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 7: an eternity. Like Deepak Choper's the guy who says there's

812
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 7: an eternity, and now he's asking Epstein of all people

813
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 7: whether there is. It's like he has this power where

814
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 7: people are revealing their intimate secrets to him. And part

815
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 7: of the problem is maybe people that get that high

816
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 7: in life don't have anyone else to talk to, and

817
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 7: they cut they have this guy who plays on that.

818
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 7: That's what I'm saying. I looked at a lot of

819
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 7: these correspondents. I can't believe it.

820
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: No, it's really you know, it is an interesting point

821
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 2: because I've always worked under the assumption and it's an assumption,

822
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: not a fact that he was kind of honeypotting everybody.

823
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: He was luring big brains and leaving on, Hey, this

824
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: big brain's come in, so you're a big brain, you

825
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 2: should come too. And you know, whether they were there

826
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: for bad behavior or just brainy behavior, it also just

827
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 2: turned weird at certain points, and who knows what's being

828
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: you know, suggested is that people were being drugged and

829
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: don't have you know, memory of certain experiences.

830
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 3: Who knows.

831
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: I think the reality is all things are kind of

832
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: on the table. But it is pretty hard to acknowledge

833
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: the fact that somebody who has as many resources as

834
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: a less Wesner to deny that you had any working

835
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: knowledge of it to not help the investigation is a

836
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: little bit of a bummer.

837
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 7: And the other thing about Epstein, I watched that interview

838
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 7: with Bannon, which I thought was very, very freeing. It's

839
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 7: very disarmy Epstein is I was surprised by the man

840
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 7: accents till that and just he had this relaxed way

841
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 7: about him, didn't get angry, surprised, he was contemplative about

842
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 7: things he was being asked. I was really surprised at

843
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 7: how disarming his entire presence was in that interview. I

844
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 7: was very surprised. And that's not he does not look

845
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 7: like a master criminal and doesn't act like one. That's

846
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 7: what my point is.

847
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's what you need to be one.

848
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 5: Listen, stick around because coming up at the top of

849
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 5: the hour, Derrett Ferritino is sticking around. We're going to

850
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 5: get into some new testimony that's unfolding in the case

851
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 5: against Colin Gray. He's the man charged with giving his

852
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 5: son a gun used a school shooting. Keep it here true,

853
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 5: Crime Tonight.

854
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

855
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

856
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong.

857
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: And body Moving.

858
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: Happy Wednesday, everybody Happy, Hello, Happy ash Wednesday. I know

859
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to insolidarity with Courtney Armstrong.

860
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: Give up, booze you aught?

861
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: I know.

862
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 3: Guarantino just shook his head.

863
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 7: No, I gave up. I'm doing that sixteen hour fast

864
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 7: every day or intermittent fast. It's hungry by lunchtime.

865
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 4: It's yeah, thinking intermittent fasting is supposed to be good

866
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 4: for you.

867
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 7: It is. It's good until about ten thirty in the

868
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 7: morning when you want to.

869
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: When you legs a McMuffin right right, Yes, sixteen hours

870
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: is a long time.

871
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 3: Plus he's on her hands.

872
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 4: Two hours about gording my face and stuff and it

873
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 4: with butter tease something.

874
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: By the way, don't to show Courtney because I have

875
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: choice and cracker d I'm sorry anyway, I digres.

876
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: So we're so glad to be getting to shoot through

877
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: some of these legal questions because there's some extraordinarily interesting

878
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: trials happening right now. One of this we discussed again

879
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: last night about this dad who's literally a standing trial

880
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: because his son allegedly shot multiple children and there's been

881
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: several several deaths, and he bought the gun for his

882
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: underaged kid, and that underage kid had some stuff going on.

883
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 2: And this is a very unique trial because of some

884
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: of these outstanding circumstances. So Court, do you want to.

885
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 5: Give us a little of the background, Yeah, just a little.

886
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 5: You honestly have most most of it down. But today

887
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 5: was the third day in the trial of the father,

888
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 5: Colin Gray, and he is the father of the alleged

889
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 5: school shooter, who is Cult Gray. And he was fourteen

890
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 5: years old at the time that he murdered two classmates

891
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 5: and two teachers at his school in twenty twenty four.

892
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 5: So the alleged shooter, he's now sixteen years old. His

893
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 5: trial has not happened yet, and it's his father's trial

894
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 5: that we're involved with right now. Collins. So we actually

895
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 5: have played this talk back. It might have even been

896
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 5: last night. It's Lisa from Pittsburgh, but none of us

897
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 5: knew how to answer it, Jared, and we feel like

898
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 5: you can speak to it, so we'd love to hear that.

899
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 13: Hey, this is Lisa calling from Pittsburgh. I'm calling about

900
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 13: the school shooting case where the dad is being charged.

901
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 13: I think that's phenomenal to look at the entire situation

902
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 13: and how different people play a role in this in

903
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 13: warning signs, However, I feel like there's a contradiction and

904
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 13: I wanted to know your thoughts on it. I will

905
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 13: never understand why we decide to charge some kids as

906
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 13: an adult. But if we're saying, on one hand that

907
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 13: his father is to blame for bad parenting, are we

908
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 13: saying he's a kid good?

909
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 4: That's a great talk. She gets a sweatshirt, I don't

910
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 4: care Lisa sweatshirt.

911
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 7: Well, she's also from Pennsylvania, so I could speak. That's

912
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 7: a great question. So great a couple of things. So

913
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 7: what in Pennsylvan And unfortunately, I have had to prosecute

914
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 7: individuals under the age of eighteen for murder as adults

915
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 7: in Pennsylvania on multiples and I've chosen not to do

916
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 7: it on multiple occasions. So the first people that make

917
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 7: that decision of the prosecutors, and the fact that someone

918
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 7: has a bad parent is certainly a factor that could

919
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 7: be considered in assessing whether or not this is someone

920
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 7: who should have known better. But that is not the

921
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 7: only factor. You know, there are certain crimes that are

922
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 7: what we call direct file crimes. The fact that it

923
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 7: is a murder you graduate to the big leagues. This

924
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 7: young man was fourteen, so because he is just fourteen,

925
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 7: there are some states that it's not automatically an adult.

926
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 7: You have to choose to file as an adult. So

927
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 7: the crime qualifies. Let's say that. Then you have to

928
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 7: have a review of this child's psychiatric background and say

929
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 7: to yourself, is this a young man or woman that

930
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 7: could be amenable to treatment or rehabilitation in the juvenile

931
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 7: facility such that the world would be safe when they

932
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 7: turn twenty one? Okay, And that's the fight. Are they

933
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 7: amenable to juvenile rehabilitative justice or has this individual shown

934
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 7: they're not amenable to rehabilitation. They need to be punished

935
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 7: and put away into the adult system. That literally is

936
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 7: what it comes down to. The fact that they have

937
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 7: bad parents is certainly considered and assessed, but it ain't

938
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 7: driving the bus. The big thing is an examination of

939
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 7: these school records, the prior crimes, these particular crimes, things

940
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 7: of that nature.

941
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: We were trying to explain it today a little bit

942
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: because it kind of reminds me of I mean, it's

943
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 2: tough to say this, but of course you wouldn't let

944
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: your underaged child drive a vehicle, right, So if they

945
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: did and you gave them the keys and gave them

946
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: permission to drive it, even if you taught them how

947
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: to correctly, and somebody's life was taken, let alone multiple

948
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 2: people with injuries as well, how do you you know,

949
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 2: I guess that's kind of similar or is that not?

950
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 3: Jared?

951
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 7: It is, because think about it, a car could be

952
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 7: a weapon at that point, right, it's a great analogy,

953
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 7: and you know, two things could be true. You could

954
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 7: have a bad parent and you could have a bad kid,

955
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 7: and that may be the reason you have a bad kid.

956
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 7: But that doesn't justify their crimes, or mean they would

957
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 7: benefit from the juvenile justice system. But this case, it's

958
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 7: not as earth shattering or pioneering, is it. Ethan Crombly

959
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 7: was the shooting. If you remember, his parents were both convicted,

960
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 7: and I was thrilled to see them convicted. I watched

961
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 7: that case, very watched that little you know, and I

962
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 7: hate to say, but I look at these I mean

963
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 7: as a parent, I look at these defendants as kids

964
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 7: and I say that that child was ignored, he was

965
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 7: physically ignored, his mental health issues were ignored, and then

966
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 7: his crying out and violent tendencies were ignored, and they

967
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 7: were criminally responsible, just like this situation. And it's an

968
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 7: examination of text messages. The nature of the relationship, was

969
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 7: the gun secured? Did you ignore again, red flags? All

970
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 7: of those things? You're responsible? And the law is starting

971
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 7: to go in this direction. So two people or three

972
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 7: could technically be responsible for this crime mom and dad

973
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 7: like in the Crumbly case, and the child, the actual slayer,

974
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 7: could be held accountable as the killer.

975
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: I mean, look, there is something does have to be happening.

976
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 2: I mean, the amount of school shootings that are happening,

977
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: it's you know, unimaginable.

978
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 3: So I don't know what the answer is.

979
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, one of my saddest things is I absolutely there

980
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 5: are so many. I can't keep track. I don't remember.

981
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 5: And think about Columbine when it happened. You know, it

982
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 5: was a national tragedy as it should have been. And

983
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 5: now dare I say it's I mean, it's commonplace if

984
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 5: you look at the statistics, and yeah, as you said,

985
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 5: something has to be done. I want to go over

986
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 5: the testimony really quickly. Today, the former assistant principal took

987
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 5: the stand and testified they had gotten on the day

988
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 5: of the shooting, which took place at about ten twenty am,

989
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 5: they got an email from the alleged shooter's teacher that

990
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 5: where he had asked, hey, do we ever do any

991
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 5: of shooter drills? That alert of the teacher seemed like

992
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 5: it was odd. And then the administrators attempted to locate

993
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 5: the alleged shooter and this is just a tragedy, but

994
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 5: they struggled. He was brand new to the school and

995
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 5: they didn't know.

996
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 3: What he looked like.

997
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 5: Oh oh god, and his most recent photo was from

998
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 5: fourth grade, so they literally couldn't find him for a while. Yeah,

999
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 5: and also there was another student with an almost identical name.

1000
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 3: That student was located.

1001
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 5: That student was taken to the counselor's office and searched.

1002
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: Pause for one second, because I just think there's this

1003
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 2: needs to be some grace on so many parts in

1004
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: this story. Of course, boy, if you're the parent of

1005
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: one of these victims, or a family member of a

1006
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 2: teacher or somebody, I mean, the rippling effect of this

1007
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 2: is is immeasurable. I the amount of things that went

1008
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 2: wrong is unbelievable.

1009
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 3: You could a picture how it happens.

1010
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: You go to the front desk o of school and

1011
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I want to get my child now

1012
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 2: it's at it. It's like the first couple of days

1013
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: of school. You know, it's always a little confusing. Not

1014
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 2: everybody has their photos quite where they're supposed to be.

1015
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: Everybody is asking for.

1016
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 3: Oh, sorry, can you just give me two more days?

1017
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: On that. The school's trying their best to do everything

1018
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 3: in their power to, you know, get the names to

1019
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 3: the faces. Now we know how kids change.

1020
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 2: This kid's starting ninth grade, you probably look like an

1021
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 2: entirely different person three weeks prior, let alone two years.

1022
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 2: And then they got the wrong kid out of the

1023
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 2: wrong class.

1024
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 4: So the morning of the shooting, the assistant principal gets

1025
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 4: this email right from the teacher and she's like, this

1026
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 4: is weird, that's what happened.

1027
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 5: And then the assistant principle then they also they then

1028
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 5: reached out to the watchmall call it to the principle okay,

1029
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 5: and said that hey, I think we have a situation

1030
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 5: or that excuse me. So the assistant principal got the email,

1031
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 5: tried to find the kid, couldn't find him, and then

1032
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 5: also the mother of the alleged shooter. She called that

1033
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 5: morning as well and said, you know, urgent emergency. My

1034
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 5: kid has access to weapons, and at that point the

1035
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 5: principle was called. But my question for you, Jared. So

1036
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 5: that's largely what happened today and the defense on Cross

1037
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 5: what they focused on was that roughly hour and a

1038
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 5: half window.

1039
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 4: Right, because they get they get the weird question. It

1040
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 4: warns the teacher so much shit. She emails the assistant principle,

1041
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 4: and then the mom calls and says, yeah, the kid

1042
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 4: you're looking for, the guy that you got the weird

1043
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 4: while she didn't know about the email, but the kid

1044
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 4: you're looking for, he's got access to weapons. So at

1045
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 4: that point, what does the school do.

1046
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 5: So well, I'm curious what you think of that line

1047
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 5: of you know, layering.

1048
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 7: I mean, well, first of all, it took a teacher

1049
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 7: one question to know this kid was a threat and

1050
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 7: his parent, his father's on trial, and he's going to

1051
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 7: say he didn't know what was going to happen, right,

1052
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 7: you know, good luck. So what I look at that,

1053
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 7: it seems to me that the this is the danger

1054
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 7: when the schools are porous like this, you have children

1055
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 7: transferring in and out. You have a student who was

1056
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 7: there for four days, and probably the first time he

1057
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 7: speaks in the class is yeah, do we have active

1058
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 7: shooting drills here? Which is okay, that's a red flag.

1059
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 7: That's the third time I used the word red flag tonight. So,

1060
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 7: but that's what you're looking for. And teachers know they're observant,

1061
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 7: and this is a room full of people they're in

1062
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 7: charge of, and this is a boy who's in their

1063
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 7: care for four days, and they have alarm signed alarms

1064
00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 7: going off immediately, And that's what I would spin that

1065
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 7: on that defense. If they're talking about, well, it took

1066
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 7: you an hour and a half to find it, it's

1067
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 7: your fault, I would say hour and a half. Your

1068
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 7: client had him his entire life and shouldn't.

1069
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Do you have any I'm not sure

1070
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 5: how closely or not you've been following this case. Are

1071
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 5: there any other thoughts on sort of where the defense

1072
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 5: would go or should go in this It just seems

1073
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 5: so guilty, Like.

1074
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 7: Here's the thing the defense is in this case is

1075
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 7: this dad didn't know if dad knew he would have

1076
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 7: stopped it. He didn't know he was going to be violent.

1077
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 7: The gun was purchased legally, you know, he did his

1078
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 7: best to secure it. It's all like the oh shuts defense.

1079
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 5: Now.

1080
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 7: I don't think that's going to carry the day. But

1081
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 7: that really is the only thing, in my opinion, that

1082
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 7: could appeal to some juror out there who says, hey,

1083
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 7: you know, my kid's done things. I didn't know what

1084
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 7: was going to happen. How do you truly know? You know?

1085
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 7: One of the things I remember after call them by,

1086
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 7: my mom had said to me. And I grew up

1087
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 7: in a house of four boys, how could the parents

1088
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 7: not have known? And I said, Mom, we have a

1089
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 7: shed in the backyard. When's the last time you were

1090
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 7: in that shed? And she hadn't been in there. I said,

1091
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 7: we could be a stockpile of weapons. But you just

1092
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 7: wouldn't know. There are things some parents wouldn't know. Now,

1093
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 7: I you know, if you're busy, you're not following things.

1094
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 7: I try to stay on top of the kids. You

1095
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 7: try to stay on top of everything. That's what you're

1096
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 7: going to try to appeal to, though one All you

1097
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 7: need is one juror to hang on that.

1098
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 4: What are Is there any defense benefit and listen, I'm

1099
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 4: not here to help this guy, But is there any

1100
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 4: defense benefit of going after the school because they had

1101
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 4: they got this email and then they got a phone call.

1102
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 4: They didn't lock the school down, they didn't Is there

1103
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 4: any benefit of defense strategy wise to go after the stoit?

1104
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 7: I feel it all begins and ends with the gun.

1105
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 7: So how do you get the gun? You know the

1106
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 7: gun is Dad's fault, so I think yes, they can

1107
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 7: try to It's about blame shifting. So one is your

1108
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 7: argument is Dad didn't know and if this was likely

1109
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 7: to happen, the school was in the best position to

1110
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 7: prevent it. Their protocols failed. They didn't identify the child

1111
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 7: fast enough. They didn't want to schoolp Yeah, I think Boddy,

1112
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 7: that's a good point. But at the end of the day,

1113
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 7: I think you're going to say, no, Dad, you put

1114
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 7: a loaded gun in the hands of your child. Agree

1115
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 7: you're struggling, sent him into a new school knowing he

1116
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 7: has these problems. What did you think was going to happen?

1117
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 3: Right?

1118
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 4: And I want to make it clear. I think this

1119
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 4: guy's guilty and I don't think the school is responsible.

1120
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to figure out, like strategy wise from

1121
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 4: the defense, I feel like you should blame shift a

1122
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 4: little bit and be like, hey, they were warned and

1123
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 4: they didn't do anything.

1124
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: And meanwhile Dad is like, Okay, welcome to being a

1125
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 2: single dad. I am separated from my wife. It's been

1126
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 2: a really strange time. I I'm struggling at work and

1127
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 2: I can't put food on the table. And I bought

1128
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 2: my son a gun and was going to teach him

1129
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 2: how to use it because he seems to be kind

1130
01:01:58,360 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 2: of weird.

1131
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 3: Nobody knows my son, but it's better than me.

1132
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 7: That could appeal. That's what could appeal to a jury. Now,

1133
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 7: the Crombley's were out living their best lives.

1134
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and they were so glib, and now that

1135
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 2: they're particularly why is everybody not sobbing. I'm like, this

1136
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: is the saddest story in the history of the time.

1137
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 2: You know, Dad just being there, I'm like, he must

1138
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: be devastated.

1139
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 5: Well, we will obviously continue following this case.

1140
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: It's important and stick around.

1141
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 5: Attorney Jarrett Farentino will be with us and we're going

1142
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 5: to dig into the case against Corey Richins. She's at

1143
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 5: Utah mom accused of killing her husband with fentanyl. Keep

1144
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 5: it here True Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all

1145
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 5: the time.

1146
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight at iHeartRadio. We're talking

1147
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Steph here with Courtney and Body,

1148
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 2: and we have Jared Farantino with us tonight, answering all

1149
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: of your legal questions.

1150
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 3: If you want to join us.

1151
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 2: Live, please do eight eight eight three one Crime. So, oh, Courtney,

1152
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 2: what do you think? Where should we go next?

1153
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 5: I think we were going to quickly wrap up because

1154
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 5: there was there was a lingering talk back from the

1155
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 5: Colin Gray trial. We were just talking about the father

1156
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 5: who is standing trial for allegedly giving his fourteen year

1157
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 5: old son a gun, which was then used in a

1158
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 5: school shooting.

1159
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 3: So why don't we start with that talkback for Jared?

1160
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 9: Hi, Ladies, Leah and Melbourne. I just a question about

1161
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 9: the Colin Gray cult Gray case currently. Why are they

1162
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 9: trying the father before they try the son. It seems

1163
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 9: a little bit odd that they're trying the father for

1164
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 9: something that the son has not yet been convicted of.

1165
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 9: Maybe one for Jared, but I can't quite make sense

1166
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 9: of it.

1167
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 2: Thank you, I actually know this one but I don't

1168
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: I have that same question.

1169
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 7: I think body tell me if you if you agree with.

1170
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 4: Me, I'm just going to say I agree.

1171
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 7: It doesn't make logical sense, but legally it doesn't matter.

1172
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 7: So here's why the cases are totally separate proceedings, totally

1173
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 7: separate juries, and totally separate elements. Dad is charged with

1174
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 7: involuntary manslaughter. So essentially the elements of involuntary manslaughter are

1175
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 7: Dad did something reckless, unlawful, or negligent and it led

1176
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 7: to the death of another. So they're going to have

1177
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 7: to establish that Colt committed the crime, but it doesn't

1178
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 7: matter that he wasn't already convicted. I think they're going

1179
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 7: to meet their burden in both courtrooms. It's pretty clear

1180
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 7: Colt was the shooter in this particular incident. So because

1181
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 7: they're separate and there's an argument to be made, the

1182
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 7: jury may not even know that Colt was invicted. If

1183
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 7: his case came first, they would just say you are

1184
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 7: still required to prove that here in this courtroom because

1185
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 7: it's an element of that crime. So right, it doesn't

1186
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 7: make logical sense. Legally, it's not as significant as it

1187
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 7: may appear.

1188
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 3: Like it seems. Suss but it's not right.

1189
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 4: And additionally, the son, the killer in this case they accused,

1190
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 4: he's undergoing medical or mental treatment right now, which could

1191
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 4: take a really long time, and so it does make

1192
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 4: sense legally, right. It doesn't make sense in our minds,

1193
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 4: but legally it makes sense to try him first.

1194
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 7: And that's a good point too. Body this case is

1195
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 7: going to largely Colt's case is largely going to come

1196
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 7: down to the mental health assessments of him. He may

1197
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 7: end up not taking a trial, it may plead out,

1198
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 7: and he'll ask based on his mental health issues, for

1199
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 7: some kind of a reduced sentence based on his age,

1200
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 7: and certainly not getting out at twenty one. By the way,

1201
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 7: that's the big fight.

1202
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 3: That's the key, right right.

1203
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 7: One of the things is when I've done this, when

1204
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 7: I've sought adult court for a technical juvenile the first

1205
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 7: fight is the defense tries to get the case kicked

1206
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 7: back down at juvenile court. And that's a fight of psychiatrists,

1207
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 7: it's a fight of lead investigators. But make no mistake,

1208
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 7: that is the biggest fight facing the defense at that point.

1209
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 2: I would have to imagine though, if for some reason,

1210
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 2: you know, the sun he's claiming he's he's saying not guilty.

1211
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 2: He has his innocence, so because he's.

1212
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 4: Waiting for this mental evaluation, right.

1213
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 2: Right, So if there is some universe where he is unstable,

1214
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 2: or there is some universe where he is found innocent

1215
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: by virtue of some sort of mental condition, or maybe

1216
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,959
Speaker 2: he's just found not innocent, just based on the jury

1217
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 2: pool that here is his case.

1218
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 3: Obviously that would affect Dad. If Dad was found guilty.

1219
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 3: I mean, he would obviously appeal pretty quickly.

1220
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 7: I don't think well so, but again they're still separate,

1221
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 7: so technically that could happen. But here's the other thing.

1222
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 7: When I say mental health, I don't necessarily mean he's

1223
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 7: going to claim insanity. He's going to cite to conditions

1224
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 7: he undoubtedly has that will drive down you can look

1225
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 7: at you know, the child has this mental health issue

1226
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 7: whatever it is. Is the child bipolar, does the child

1227
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 7: have eighty eight.

1228
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 2: Or should they have been medicated? Were they on medication?

1229
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 2: Were they not on medication like we're seeing the Liner case.

1230
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 7: So not an insanity type plea. But these are the

1231
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 7: things that the defense attorneys are trying to build for

1232
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 7: the consideration of the court in meeting out whatever justice

1233
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 7: the judge has to do here in the event the

1234
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 7: case is ultimately resolved.

1235
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1236
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 4: Again, there are two separate cases, totally two separate things.

1237
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 2: And you know, you can't stop things from absorb absorbing

1238
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 2: in your head. Certainly if it's happening in your town,

1239
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 2: in your area where the jury pool is being picked from,

1240
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 2: there's really just zero chance you're not following it kind of.

1241
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 2: You know, one thing does slightly inform the other. You're human,

1242
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: so you know when you want your jurors to be human.

1243
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, I would have probably voted to have those

1244
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: trials in opposite order if I was representing that.

1245
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 3: I would too.

1246
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 4: But again you have to remember too, Colt the Sun,

1247
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 4: a guy that you know actually allegedly did the shooting.

1248
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 4: There's extensive forensic evidence that has to go through, mental

1249
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 4: evaluations have to be done, potential competency hearings that will

1250
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 4: be coming up. I mean, this could be years of

1251
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 4: stuff that has to happen, so we might not even

1252
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 4: see his case being tried until late twenty twenty seven. Wow,

1253
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 4: So we have to keep that in mind as well.

1254
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 4: But so True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio where we're talking

1255
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 4: true crime all the time, I'm body movin and I'm

1256
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 4: here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. We are joined

1257
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 4: by veteran trial attorney and prosecutor Jarrett Farantino. He's here

1258
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 4: to answer all of our silly legal questions that we have.

1259
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 4: We keep a little list, and every week he answers

1260
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 4: all of our very happily, by the way. He answers

1261
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 4: all of our questions and doesn't make.

1262
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 2: Fun of us in the event of yes, we said

1263
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 2: we voted you, Jarrett. Just so you didn't know this,

1264
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 2: but we have to memorize your phone number because if

1265
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 2: we ever get arrested, you're a first call.

1266
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 3: Did you know that?

1267
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 12: Oh?

1268
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 7: Good, Well, I'm.

1269
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 3: Yeah and I'm serious.

1270
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 4: I wanted to get in a little bit into Corey

1271
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 4: richards because I had some questions for a Jared, So

1272
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 4: let me just kind of set the table a little bit.

1273
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 4: She's thirty five years old, she's a Utah mom, and

1274
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 4: she's facing numerous charges related to the twenty twenty two

1275
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 4: fentanyl death of her husband, Eric Richins. Her charges include

1276
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:59,560
Speaker 4: aggravated murder, fraud, forgery, and much more. Okay, Corey Richardson's

1277
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 4: case has gained national attention for many different reasons, including

1278
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 4: this Walk the Dog letter.

1279
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 3: Okay.

1280
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 4: In this Walk the Dog letter, prosecutors are alleging it

1281
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 4: was written in like code okay, and it was intended

1282
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 4: to instruct Corey's mom to tell Corey's brother basically to

1283
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 4: lie to the authorities about how the victim cured this

1284
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 4: fentanyl from these ranchands in Mexico.

1285
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 3: Right now, the.

1286
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 4: Defense is saying, oh, this was a manuscript and it's

1287
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 4: it's only part of a book she was writing, right, Well,

1288
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 4: this all comes down to Ken, what do you think

1289
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:44,799
Speaker 4: about Let me just get your take on the case

1290
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 4: as a whole, like really quick.

1291
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 7: So I don't care for her, that's okay, And I

1292
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:57,879
Speaker 7: love this excuse your letter gets founded and you're writing

1293
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 7: a book. Now I'm going to use that excuse, like

1294
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 7: are you kidding me? And and by the way, and

1295
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 7: it was found in her l SAT press. It was

1296
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 7: prepting to take the law school sat.

1297
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: Because she's going to represent herself because she's like, what's

1298
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 2: the favorite word, Courtney, megalomania. Megalomania if in fact what

1299
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:24,560
Speaker 2: she's been accused of is true.

1300
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 7: Right, And here's so I look at that and I

1301
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 7: say whether you're writing a book or not, that's something

1302
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 7: you can argue against that when that letter comes into court,

1303
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 7: that letter comes in, I would say it's relevant. It's code.

1304
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 7: We're admitting it. You guys can say whatever you want

1305
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 7: to try to pick it apart. And the judge is

1306
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 7: letting some of it in because there are portions of

1307
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 7: it that are clearly relevant. So I would say, judge,

1308
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 7: that's not an issue we decide now, that's an issue

1309
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 7: for the jury. That letter should come in. And I've

1310
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 7: admitted jail letters in my cases, and some of them

1311
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 7: are sillacious and some of them involved you know, uh,

1312
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 7: sex talk and things that are are would emotionally impact

1313
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 7: the jury. But the key is they were relevant to motive,

1314
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 7: relevant to cover up. That's huge beliefs.

1315
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 4: So do you think okay, So let me just set

1316
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 4: the table one for one moment again. So the prosecution

1317
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 4: is saying that this was coded, a coded letter to

1318
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 4: instruct you know, basically witness tampering, right, that's the bottom line.

1319
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 4: They're saying this is witness tampering. The defense is contending

1320
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,560
Speaker 4: that this document is not real instructions. But an excerpt

1321
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 4: from the sixty five page fictional manuscript right, and they

1322
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 4: argue it may be privileged attorney work product and that

1323
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 4: it was improperly seized. Again, it was in her jail

1324
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 4: cell on this l SAP book.

1325
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 3: Can you explain the strategy?

1326
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,799
Speaker 7: I'm starting to not like her lawyers, but.

1327
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 3: I feel.

1328
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 7: Is she addressing her book to her lawyers. I had

1329
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 7: a case where a guy tried to claim a similar

1330
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 7: letter was a rap song, and I was like, great,

1331
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 7: A it's directive to a witness. B it's a bad

1332
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 7: rap song at best, And so you could, I mean,

1333
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,600
Speaker 7: what else is she gonna say? It's a or it

1334
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 7: was a letter to my lawyer. Either way, you shouldn't

1335
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 7: get it in. That's an issue for the judge, though.

1336
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 7: The judge would look at that document because if jury's

1337
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 7: not going to decide whether or not it's privileged, because

1338
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 7: at that point it's too late you would have already

1339
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 7: breached the privilege. A judge would have to look at

1340
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 7: it in that context. So, but again, if it's privileged,

1341
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 7: it should be addressed to the attorney. It should be

1342
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 7: discussing strategy, not enticing. And by the way, if you're

1343
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 7: enticing a witness to lie, that's not privilege. That's a crime.

1344
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if you know this, but get this, Jarrett. Okay,

1345
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 4: So this letter, this walk the Dog letter. Apparently prior

1346
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 4: to them finding this letter, Corey and her mom met like,

1347
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 4: and you know they have like in jail, you can

1348
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 4: go visit, right, And Corey held up a different letter

1349
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 4: for her mom to read. Okay, so there's a whole

1350
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 4: other letter that we know nothing about, or.

1351
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 7: A part of the book or another part of her book.

1352
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 4: Well, prosecutors are asking. They're like, okay, if this is

1353
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 4: part of her manuscript, where's the other sixty pages?

1354
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 7: Right?

1355
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 4: Because they said it was a sixty five page you know.

1356
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 4: So the prosecutors were like, okay, cool, let's read the book.

1357
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 4: Where's the rest of it?

1358
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 7: Is walk the Dog code for wag the dog.

1359
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 3: Too, I don't know.

1360
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 4: It just says it on the top of the letter.

1361
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 4: It says, walk the dog, and be vague in your answers.

1362
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 7: She has never ceased to amaze and all this, she's

1363
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 7: annis said out. This one's going to be a lifetime

1364
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 7: movie at some point.

1365
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 3: Right.

1366
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 4: So there was also some debate over whether or not

1367
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 4: the defense could disclose information about the victim. Eric Richins

1368
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,839
Speaker 4: high school drug use in order to support the theory

1369
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 4: that he administered this deadly fentanyl himself. Is this evidence

1370
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 4: relevant enough for the defense to submit it? Will a

1371
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 4: judge allow that to be allowed in court?

1372
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 7: So it is certainly relevant. The question is it too

1373
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 7: remote in time? Was this a guy who smoked a

1374
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:30,839
Speaker 7: joint in high school? Or was he you know, spiking

1375
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 7: black tar heroin? Like? So that's the question, and so

1376
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 7: is it Although it may be, how relevant is it?

1377
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 7: Is it a similar drug? Did he have a problem?

1378
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 7: It's so remote in time, and these folks were well

1379
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 7: beyond high school. So my position would be this is

1380
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 7: victim shaming. It has nothing to do There is no

1381
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 7: indication that he was using fentanyl for years and years

1382
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:58,839
Speaker 7: and years. This is nothing more than, you know, a

1383
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 7: dishal effort to shame him.

1384
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 4: And it could come across back to the jury too, right,

1385
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 4: like you're blaming the victim. It could come across bad right.

1386
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 7: Oh sure, and that could blow up in your face.

1387
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 7: But if you have and I would say, if I'm

1388
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 7: the judge or the prosecutor in this case, I'd say,

1389
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 7: if you have evidence that he was using drugs, the

1390
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 7: best you have is he used drugs in high school?

1391
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,719
Speaker 7: Like show me something, and then he just reverts back

1392
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 7: on the night there was a party at the house

1393
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 7: while he's eating a sandwich. I mean, like, what are

1394
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,599
Speaker 7: we doing here like this show me something that even

1395
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:34,759
Speaker 7: suggests there is a nexus between drug used years ago

1396
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,480
Speaker 7: and around the time of him being allegedly poisoned.

1397
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 5: And is that decision, Yeah, the decision of whether it

1398
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 5: can be brought in or not.

1399
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 3: Is the judges correct?

1400
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 7: Yes, Well, it's the judges because the allegation here. So

1401
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 7: the defense has raised this, it's called the motion elimonade.

1402
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 7: They're putting you on notice we intend to use this.

1403
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 7: So they want a roadmap to say, judge, is this

1404
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 7: in if we try to get it in? And the

1405
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 7: prosecution is clearly objecting on the prejudicial nature of the evidence, right,

1406
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 7: So the judge makes the call in that case.

1407
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:15,919
Speaker 4: And the judge also did partially grant the state's request

1408
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 4: to use portions of this letter at trial and denied this.

1409
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 4: The prosecution also said, listen, she's writing her mom these

1410
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 4: coded letters to do some witness tampering. We want there

1411
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 4: to be a no contact order. The judge denied that,

1412
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 4: but the judge did grant the state's request to use

1413
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 4: portions of this walk the Dog letter at trial. I

1414
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 4: don't know exactly which portions, but the portions that the

1415
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 4: state wanted, He's going to allow it. So this is

1416
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 4: not going to be a privileged communication. So that the

1417
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 4: judge clearly saw through all that the.

1418
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,839
Speaker 7: Judge des by the book or attorney privileged claim now clearly,

1419
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 7: and this effort to prevent her from talking to her mother,

1420
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 7: that's a little bit extreme. Yeah, but again, if there

1421
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 7: is a continuing effort to intimidate witnesses, they will shut

1422
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 7: that down. The judge. You'll see that's enough. I'm not

1423
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 7: going to have witnesses intimidated.

1424
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 4: By you, right, Jarrett, You're always such a shining light.

1425
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us. We look forward

1426
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 4: all week to having you here. Anyone who wants more Jarrett,

1427
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 4: you can follow him on social media at Jarrett Farentino,

1428
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 4: on Instagram and on YouTube. You can also pre order

1429
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 4: his upcoming book, Mothers, Murders and Motivation. It's out in

1430
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 4: the spring of twenty twenty six. Stick around, We've got

1431
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 4: more to dig into. It's talk back time. Keep it

1432
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 4: right here. True Crime Tonight.

1433
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1434
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 2: true crime all the time of staff here with Courtney

1435
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,599
Speaker 2: and Body and let's go to a talkback cool jump

1436
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:00,120
Speaker 2: right in.

1437
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 14: You guys, Sarah from name, I was calling because you

1438
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 14: were just talking about the Nancy Gothree case and in

1439
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 14: name last year we had a dog missing, our family

1440
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,839
Speaker 14: dog and we put up a five thousand dollars reward,

1441
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 14: and all the crazies came out of the wood work

1442
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 14: to try to get the reward. So I know it's

1443
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 14: not comparative to a human life, but definitely was saying,

1444
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 14: I hope it's not fake people coming out saying they

1445
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 14: have it when they don't. I have to tell you

1446
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 14: people are so disgusting just for a dog. They were

1447
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 14: coming out and saying they wanted to give us back

1448
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:35,839
Speaker 14: our dog just maybe you get the five thousand dollars.

1449
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 14: So I don't think any of the some demands for

1450
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 14: TMZ or anywhere else are real. Unfortunately, you guys are

1451
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 14: doing a great job.

1452
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 4: B I agree it and so low.

1453
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 3: It is so low lame. I just feel like those.

1454
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 2: Are the types of people that should have to like

1455
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 2: publicly speak for themselves.

1456
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 3: Are they getting publicly to judge all of us.

1457
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 4: My friend, uh, my friend Niho just she has a

1458
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 4: scott Do you guys know what Scottish fold cats are. Well,

1459
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 4: they're very cute cats. They're very expensive. And her little

1460
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 4: Scottish fold is missing. And she put up you know,

1461
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 4: she put up posters around her town and the and

1462
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 4: it's she's offering a reward. And the minute she put

1463
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 4: them up, she started getting text messages I think I

1464
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 4: found your cat. And they're using a I now because

1465
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 4: they're AI now to make photos and so she's messaging

1466
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 4: me and she's like, what do you think, Boddy, And

1467
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 4: I'm doing a trace on the phone number and I'm like, nope,

1468
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 4: because I found all these Facebook posts from the same number,

1469
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 4: the same phone number of other people being scanned by

1470
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 4: the same number, and she's gotten this and it's so

1471
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 4: sad because every time she gets a text with the

1472
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 4: you know, these videos from AI, her heart is racing.

1473
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 4: She loves her cat. She wants your cat. And I'm like,

1474
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 4: I feel so bad because I'm always have to be

1475
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 4: like no, I don't respond. But that's what they're doing

1476
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 4: and that's why they kind of, you know, for missing

1477
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 4: people That's why one of the reasons why families typically

1478
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 4: it's not you know all the time, but typically don't

1479
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 4: offer their own personal reward because then they start getting

1480
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 4: innundated with these fakes and whatnot. Now, it's not the

1481
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 4: same as a missing dog or cat, don't get me wrong, but.

1482
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 2: It but even a missing dog and cat, like just

1483
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 2: even hearing and listen, I don't know where the line is.

1484
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 2: I know, we we talk about crime all day, so

1485
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:39,639
Speaker 2: you know, you would think we're all a little either

1486
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 2: sometimes desensitized, which course try not to be, but you

1487
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 2: have to survive sometimes too. And then you hear like

1488
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 2: a story like this, and I'm like, if who is

1489
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: this guy who's asking for money for a reward for

1490
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 2: somebody's missing animal, Like you should be tarred and feathered.

1491
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 2: That's so un or be itchy for a long time.

1492
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 4: And all these plansom notes that are going to Tams,

1493
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 4: I'm starting to get like irritated.

1494
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

1495
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:10,879
Speaker 4: I know you love irritated.

1496
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 2: You know I love Harvey Levin, but I also I

1497
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 2: find I'm nervous about this. It's like melding into this

1498
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 2: weird backstory that we're all kind of watching in the

1499
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 2: peripheral and.

1500
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 3: Hope we find her. And it's like, this is just like

1501
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 3: very high stakes stuff.

1502
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,839
Speaker 2: And you know, oftentimes people who do this for a living,

1503
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 2: or police officers they're trained. There's, you know, an emotional

1504
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:37,759
Speaker 2: capacity that we can only handle so much noise about

1505
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 2: sadness and grief. It's very triggering for people like you

1506
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 2: physically can only like hold that much space for that

1507
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: much tough information, right And it's just something we all

1508
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 2: have to be mindful of right now because like you

1509
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:52,639
Speaker 2: literally can't store it all.

1510
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 3: It's going to come out if it doesn't come.

1511
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:03,720
Speaker 2: We're looking for our elder Nancy, America's grandma, where we're

1512
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 2: looking for her. All the Epstein files hitting us all

1513
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 2: like a ton of bricks with big, scary, big things.

1514
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 2: It's a lot to get through, and I'm just going

1515
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:16,600
Speaker 2: to really encourage everybody to, yeah, slow it down a

1516
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 2: little bit. We can only take in so much and

1517
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 2: keeping our hearts high and open and our minds reasonable

1518
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 2: is the only thing getting us out of this.

1519
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,839
Speaker 4: So, like, you know, slow and steady, saw and steady.

1520
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 4: If you're out there and you're listening, did you listen

1521
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 4: to me earlier and go watch that video again from

1522
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 4: the nest doorbell. I want to know, do you think

1523
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 4: that he was getting ready to knock? Give us a call?

1524
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 4: Eighty eight thirty one crime. I want to hear it live, Give.

1525
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 3: Me a call. I think you might be right about that.

1526
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 4: I don't know. It just looks like he was getting

1527
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 4: ready to kind of knock.

1528
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,600
Speaker 2: On the other words, I always thought it looked to me,

1529
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 2: and it wasn't because I examined it. So this was

1530
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 2: just like the hit that I got when I saw

1531
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 2: it for the first time, was that he was a distraction,

1532
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 2: like he was almost going to the door, or maybe

1533
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 2: he was about to knock, and then she would come out,

1534
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 2: and then somebody else would creep in somehow, I know

1535
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 2: it doesn't.

1536
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 4: It's kind of like Jean Beney, where every theory kind

1537
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:17,679
Speaker 4: of collapses in on itself. Who ran? Like is it

1538
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 4: if it was a robbery? Why was his backpack full?

1539
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

1540
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 4: Like everything kind of collapses in on itself.

1541
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1542
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 4: And we again, we don't have any other knowledge of

1543
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 4: any other suspects.

1544
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 3: And why was he that terrible? And why was he surprise?

1545
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 4: There was a camera right right?

1546
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 3: It's all cream the doorbell that that's not the case

1547
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:37,599
Speaker 3: for I know.

1548
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 6: Especially if it's a kidnapping doing air quotes like you

1549
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 6: you would have you know, staked the place out.

1550
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 7: For sorting about our camera like that or at least, but.

1551
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:50,599
Speaker 2: Just for our emotional well being, just you know, saying

1552
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 2: it out loud, thinking about grandma's and our moms and

1553
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 2: our elders women. You know, this is like the kind

1554
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,679
Speaker 2: of thing that there's not a human alive that can't

1555
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 2: feel this one.

1556
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 9: Right.

1557
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,719
Speaker 3: We're like, we all want Nancy back safe.

1558
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 2: Right, It's a universal truth, is where like we want

1559
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:12,200
Speaker 2: we want Grandma Nancy back, period the end.

1560
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 3: I think that's why.

1561
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 2: So we don't want pedophilia, and it's too much at

1562
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 2: the same time, it's tugging on these very heavy sections

1563
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 2: of our hearts that might be a little untapped.

1564
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 4: Right, And I think I think that's why it was

1565
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 4: so special that the officer called tonight, taha.

1566
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:29,799
Speaker 3: And I really do thank you so much.

1567
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:34,559
Speaker 4: For that because because it was so sweet, because like

1568
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 4: we all really love our grandmas obviously and moms, and

1569
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 4: this was a missing grandma who kind of disappeared. She

1570
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:44,519
Speaker 4: was gone for two weeks, and you got the officer

1571
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 4: who located her and got brought her home safe to

1572
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:49,600
Speaker 4: her family on the show, and I just wanted to

1573
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 4: take a moment and like, salute you for that. That

1574
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:54,760
Speaker 4: was really very kind of you because it made me.

1575
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 4: I'm sure it made all of us. I'm speaking for

1576
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:00,599
Speaker 4: all of us. It made us feel good, and that's something.

1577
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 4: There's still a lot of good people in this world.

1578
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 4: We're all we're hearing about is the bad, Like that's

1579
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 4: another thing I think we should say.

1580
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 2: First of all, I think the empathy compassion that people

1581
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 2: are showing in the crime world, I think that's the

1582
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 2: united I don't think we're all like interested in crime.

1583
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 2: It's the you know, the human experience and looking out

1584
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,520
Speaker 2: for each other injustice and fairness and inspiration.

1585
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 3: That's rushing through difficult things.

1586
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 4: It's exhausting though.

1587
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,639
Speaker 2: It's exhausting if you do it for too long without

1588
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: appropriate mental breaks. And these are really big categories. We're

1589
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:39,719
Speaker 2: all being tapped. I really do feel it in my bones,

1590
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 2: and we do this all day, so for me to

1591
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:45,680
Speaker 2: feel it, I will say, that's a very real thing.

1592
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 2: So we should all just be mindful, like everybody should

1593
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 2: dance a little bit.

1594
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 15: We all need to ding the workday, have a little wiggle,

1595
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 15: have a little giggle, but don't take yourself so serious

1596
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 15: everything that if it's coming up for you and it's

1597
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 15: triggering something, lighten up.

1598
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 3: Survived. You're so tough, you're so strong, you're so great,

1599
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 3: and you're enough, and it shouldn't have happened.

1600
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:10,800
Speaker 2: And never put on your favorite in a ponytail and exactly,

1601
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:13,760
Speaker 2: I got those pretty panties on, and let's call it

1602
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 2: a day. Let's go play, you know, because I think

1603
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 2: it's like there's something to it, like we're all getting

1604
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,640
Speaker 2: just like, let's think about the grossest things all the

1605
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 2: time you know that are being you know, fed to

1606
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:26,679
Speaker 2: us right now.

1607
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,760
Speaker 5: Anyway, how about another talks.

1608
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 8: Hey all, this is Gina and Florida. I must think

1609
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 8: she'll talk about Kirk Cobain. And I have read an

1610
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 8: thought on a documentary heard that he had chronic pain,

1611
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 8: which I also have chronic pain, so I can kind

1612
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:49,719
Speaker 8: of relate to the madness of that. So I don't

1613
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 8: know how that fits into what you guys are talking about,

1614
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:55,920
Speaker 8: but I thought it was kind of important to mention it.

1615
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:58,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's does make a big difference.

1616
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 4: It does make a big difference, and yeah, he had

1617
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:06,440
Speaker 4: a stomach pain. And I think it's often been speculated

1618
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:09,480
Speaker 4: that part of his heroin.

1619
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 3: Addiction or his opiate addiction, I should.

1620
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 4: Say, stemmed from trying to treat that in some way.

1621
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 2: Well says so many of course, like how could that

1622
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 2: not be the case? Imagine you know that's brutal, It's

1623
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 2: so often the case.

1624
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:29,840
Speaker 4: And I know that from my again from my memory,

1625
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 4: I know he talked about it a couple times and

1626
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 4: he said that he never got a diagnosis and it

1627
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 4: went it started when he was in like high school,

1628
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 4: and so he had it for like a decade, and

1629
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 4: it was it was a lot of pain. He went

1630
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:47,560
Speaker 4: to like a bunch of doctors and never got a diagnosis.

1631
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,640
Speaker 4: So I think he was like, I think part of

1632
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:54,080
Speaker 4: his addiction was self medicating that because you know, the

1633
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 4: oplioids basically subdue that pain right anywhere.

1634
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 3: Well, sometimes they're prescribed for that pain.

1635
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 2: And by the way, how could that not be difficult

1636
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 2: to get off of.

1637
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 4: I'm getting feedback from Sam. He's saying, right on, Sam

1638
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 4: is the musical connoisseur of everyone, and he's given me

1639
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 4: the thumbs up. I'm also wearing a Nirvana shirt right now?

1640
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 4: Are you I can't see you over there?

1641
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, I see it void as we speak, saying.

1642
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 2: That far hitting no, he was like waving his hands.

1643
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 3: I was like, are we waving to Nirvana.

1644
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 7: Or should we do another one?

1645
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 9: We got?

1646
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, a couple more lined up.

1647
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 16: Hey guys, it's cricket in Connecticut and you are talking

1648
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 16: about giving up things for lent, and I just thought

1649
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 16: I would call in with my opinion and let you

1650
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 16: know that I too, am giving up things for lent

1651
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 16: and I am personally giving up giving up.

1652
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 4: That sounds like the trick I.

1653
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,520
Speaker 2: Thought you were gonna say, And I'm giving up my

1654
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:14,559
Speaker 2: my deadbeat X. You know, I thought we were going

1655
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:15,599
Speaker 2: someplace different.

1656
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 4: I used always try to give up. I love school.

1657
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give up. I'm gonna get.

1658
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 3: You know.

1659
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 2: I was really twisted about this, right but I was like,

1660
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 2: I gotta keep the spright the sprites either, So there's

1661
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:30,760
Speaker 2: not enough to hold on to right now.

1662
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:35,320
Speaker 4: I need the sprite, the coldspright from McDonald's.

1663
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:40,560
Speaker 3: It I'll give you alcohol. It almost takes.

1664
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:46,919
Speaker 2: Take my take my cheap prosecco from Trader Joe's.

1665
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:50,559
Speaker 3: But you cannot take my cheese and.

1666
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,759
Speaker 4: Have you had the mango prosecco from what Costco?

1667
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm not I can't go to Cosco. Don't make

1668
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 3: me do whatever? Please. It's like that is what I

1669
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:04,639
Speaker 3: consider like war is it is Saturday.

1670
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 4: We called the Thunderdome.

1671
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:07,719
Speaker 3: I love Costco is number.

1672
01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 2: Do not call me to ever go to Costco with

1673
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 2: you on a Saturday morning?

1674
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:17,640
Speaker 3: About it?

1675
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 4: The Manzo prossecco that was kind of worth it?

1676
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 2: So really, I know my mom is always trying to

1677
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,559
Speaker 2: convince me, and as Courtney's being very quiet because I

1678
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:28,639
Speaker 2: guarantee you she loves it earlier.

1679
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 5: The better that loves going to Costco or the mango

1680
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 5: prossecco going to Costco.

1681
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 3: Going to Costco. It's an enjoyment you get.

1682
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 5: I have like a little pantry now, like having having

1683
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 5: backs backstock of like chicken broth, having a lot of

1684
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 5: chicken broth, having a lot of almond milk for smoothies,

1685
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 5: having like it does And yeah, I totally get a

1686
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 5: high on the the prices. Yeah, but I do go

1687
01:31:59,000 --> 01:31:59,719
Speaker 5: wicked early.

1688
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 3: Like they don't even give you a bag.

1689
01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 17: You have to like carry it all out with like

1690
01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:12,800
Speaker 17: on like pellets yeah, a full sweat.

1691
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:15,599
Speaker 3: Who would ever do this again?

1692
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'd.

1693
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 3: Rather not eat, I'd rather eat.

1694
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 2: I'd rather eat these crackers better of gravel.

1695
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 4: Well, I'm telling you the manga.

1696
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 7: Might have to.

1697
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 3: On Costco. I don't mean it Costco. I don't know

1698
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,520
Speaker 3: why I don't also controlled there. It's so expensive.

1699
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 4: I know. I go in for like two things and

1700
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:42,799
Speaker 4: I'm like seven hundred dollars, Oh my god.

1701
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:49,760
Speaker 3: With a mango and a canoe. Yeah, why do I

1702
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:50,599
Speaker 3: have a canoe?

1703
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:56,639
Speaker 5: I did come very very late to the Costco party,

1704
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:59,360
Speaker 5: though I have to say it wasn't until this is

1705
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:02,600
Speaker 5: my second year, so it's still a little novel. And

1706
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:06,680
Speaker 5: the first time I went I was so overwhelmed. The

1707
01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:09,639
Speaker 5: first time I literally walked around. I came out only

1708
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 5: with shrimp cocktail because the price was so crazy.

1709
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 3: But I was like paralyzed.

1710
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:19,760
Speaker 2: Too much stuff, too many like floor fans want a

1711
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 2: fan a lot?

1712
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:26,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you gotta, I'm targeted.

1713
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 12: We do.

1714
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 6: We have time for one last there's a little complimentary one,

1715
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:32,439
Speaker 6: just a high note.

1716
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:35,560
Speaker 18: He guys, this is Timothy so Donna. I want to

1717
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 18: say my opinion, Like I love when Stephanie gets excited

1718
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:41,880
Speaker 18: her voice changes and it's cute as hell. And then

1719
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 18: you have Courtney who always is holding some fact and

1720
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 18: she pulls it out at the right time. Then you

1721
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:50,599
Speaker 18: have a body who I probably relate to the moff

1722
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 18: because I'm really analytical like her. She just has I

1723
01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:56,480
Speaker 18: don't know, we just vibe. And then I love Taha.

1724
01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 18: We need more of him because he has such great energy.

1725
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 18: I just think this show is so good. You guys

1726
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 18: are killing it and allegedly, allegedly allegedly are right.

1727
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 4: I love this guy waited more.

1728
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:12,959
Speaker 2: You see, if Sweat you never have to go to Costco.

1729
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 3: To Pang, We're going to deliver you a.

1730
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:21,639
Speaker 4: Sweatshirt as long as you're not inviting her to Costco.

1731
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:22,639
Speaker 3: She's down.

1732
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tomorrow, we're going to be back for Thursday.

1733
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 3: So waiting.

1734
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 6: We're going to talk about Mark Zuckerberg taking through the

1735
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:34,679
Speaker 6: trial stand Okay, stay tuned for that.

1736
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:46,480
Speaker 3: Can I cannight? Stay safe