Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
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Speaker 1: Business Week Carol Master along with Shinali Bassik here in
Speaker 1: our interactive broker studio. Let's get to a little bit
Speaker 1: more on COVID and the vaccine because top of mine
Speaker 1: Sali mentioned it earlier. We've got President Bush his push
Speaker 1: to begin offering third doses of Visor's vaccine, facing the
Speaker 1: first of two crucial tests. Advisers to the FDA meeting
Speaker 1: today to talk about whether booster shots should be offered
Speaker 1: to most Americans. So the process moving forward today, we
Speaker 1: are expecting some type of vote expected later this afternoon.
Speaker 1: So let's see what's top of mind for Dr Ian
Speaker 1: LUs Bader, his clinical Professor Medicine at n y U
Speaker 1: Land Going. He joined us once again on the phone
Speaker 1: in New York City. Hey, Ian, good to have you
Speaker 1: back with us. How are you. I'm good, Happy Friday,
Speaker 1: and welcome back Caros, Thank you, thank you. I got
Speaker 1: a needed break and it's good to be back. But
Speaker 1: I do feel like so many of the same stories
Speaker 1: that I left are still here, understandably, So how do
Speaker 1: you see the way forward when it comes to this pandemic?
Speaker 1: You and I UH and Tim and our team have
Speaker 1: been talking to you a lot. What's next here? So
Speaker 1: there's a big debate about the third dost or the
Speaker 1: or the booster dose for COVID, and you know who,
Speaker 1: what and when is really the question. A lot of
Speaker 1: this data is based on Israel, where you know, they
Speaker 1: had a relationship with the fiser and they got their
Speaker 1: vaccines very early, really December in January. It's not earlier
Speaker 1: last year, so it's been almost a year. And what
Speaker 1: they are noting is really the effectiveness of the vaccine
Speaker 1: is dropping from about to about and that's both due
Speaker 1: to dropping antibody levels, which we know happens after a while,
Speaker 1: and also mutations, you know in the virus. This was
Speaker 1: to the alpha variant. The delta variant actually has a
Speaker 1: different confirmation of the spike protein, and so based on
Speaker 1: a number of issues, including a much higher viral load
Speaker 1: of with delta, people are asymptomatic and often have very
Speaker 1: very high levels. So that's really what we're seeing, and
Speaker 1: concern about transfer. I mean, in other words, you're not
Speaker 1: getting sick, but you're now have ability to pass COVID around. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think that's certainly one of the elements. So that's
Speaker 1: really what we're seeing in Israel, and really what we're
Speaker 1: seeing here is that the majority of people who've been
Speaker 1: vaccinated are not getting very sick at all. A small
Speaker 1: sent are and in Israel and here as well, the
Speaker 1: small percent of people who've been vaccinated. Actually in Israel
Speaker 1: it's about half the hospitalized patients had two vaccines. They
Speaker 1: typically have heart disease or lung disease, diabetes, hypertension, they
Speaker 1: have a number of other issues, and so it is
Speaker 1: likely if we're going to do a booster, it should
Speaker 1: be in those susceptible groups. You know, we know that
Speaker 1: the third vaccine really does raise antibodies. The question is
Speaker 1: doesn't change anything? Will it really change hospitalization and death rates?
Speaker 1: So that's really the question. And then the question also
Speaker 1: comes up, what about side effects or potential side effects
Speaker 1: months or years down the line. So what do you
Speaker 1: make of the meeting today of the FDA advisors and
Speaker 1: what will come out of it? How fast can we
Speaker 1: expect decisions to be made by the Biden administration and
Speaker 1: then guidance given to the bulk of the country. You know, candidly,
Speaker 1: I think we need more data. We really should have
Speaker 1: been all along the way doing a variety of our
Speaker 1: own studies, both on the MR and A vaccines and
Speaker 1: patient populations, monoclonal antibodies, UM other drugs and other treatments,
Speaker 1: you know, for COVID, we we really should be a
Speaker 1: leader instead of relying on other data. My bet is
Speaker 1: that they are going to say it's absolutely reasonable for
Speaker 1: people the IMMO compromised people with underlying diseases, but I
Speaker 1: think they're going to wait on advising it for a
Speaker 1: big group of people. First of all, we know a
Speaker 1: lot of people now really have very high endibody levels,
Speaker 1: you know, and what we don't know is we'll even
Speaker 1: higher antibody levels really make a significant difference. We before
Speaker 1: we subject people to the potential risk of a third vaccine,
Speaker 1: we really should know. Does a higher antibody level really
Speaker 1: change an outcome? That's really the question. This is a
Speaker 1: really big week with so many people going back to school,
Speaker 1: So what are you expecting for the next buple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Does that mean that there may be a lot more cases?
Speaker 1: And does that um really start to change the calculus
Speaker 1: of how people think about this disease. You know, even
Speaker 1: though we're getting closer to what we used to think
Speaker 1: of her immunity is right vaccinations. Seventy Americans have had
Speaker 1: at least one vaccine. There's a group of about fifty
Speaker 1: or sixty million people who you know, remain unvaccinated, although
Speaker 1: slowly that seeming to chip down. I think we are
Speaker 1: going to continue to see a rise in COVID cases
Speaker 1: really in the unvaccinated, and I think everyone ultimately is
Speaker 1: going to be exposed to delta. It's highly contagious, but
Speaker 1: I think most people who are vaccinated will have either
Speaker 1: minimal or no symptoms. They'll have a cost, they'll have
Speaker 1: a cold, and if they don't get tested, they may
Speaker 1: never even really know. And I think eventually we will
Speaker 1: all build up antibodies to that, and unless there's a
Speaker 1: new mutation, I think we will sort of learn to
Speaker 1: live with delta, you know, one that group of fifty
Speaker 1: million people you know, wind up getting it. Now. Of
Speaker 1: course there will be some hospitalizations and deaths in the unvaccinated,
Speaker 1: but that at this point is a relatively small percent
Speaker 1: of the population. Well, and it is interesting. I thought
Speaker 1: the point you made about a third dose. We don't
Speaker 1: necessarily know all the side effects of getting one, and
Speaker 1: that's just something to consider as they as they move forward.
Speaker 1: Certainly regulators, Um, Dr Lusbader, sit tight, We'll come back.
Speaker 1: Dr Ian los Bader, where you're talking with on this
Speaker 1: Friday's clinical professor of medicine over at n y U
Speaker 1: Landgoing Medical Center on the phone in New York City?
Speaker 1: Are you ready Shinale to get a third booster? I
Speaker 1: would like it as soon as possible, like him would
Speaker 1: be like, I want it yesterday. UM. I do like
Speaker 1: that they're gathering more information because I think we're getting
Speaker 1: pieces from different parties, and you know, we know, right
Speaker 1: data is important to really understanding maybe what's to come. Definitely,
Speaker 1: what's the best move? Definitely, but people are back in
Speaker 1: full force. It definitely feels like it definitely feels it.
Speaker 1: Are you are listening to Bloomberg this week on this Friday,
Speaker 1: Carol Masser, Shinali Bassik, and we'll be back in just
Speaker 1: a moment right here on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get right
Speaker 1: back to Dr Ian los Beta, clinical professor of Medicine
Speaker 1: at n y U Landgown, still with us on the
Speaker 1: phone in New York City. So Dr ls Beder, one
Speaker 1: thing that really caught my attention when you said, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't know the side effects of a third possible dose.
Speaker 1: I mean we are still learning in real time about
Speaker 1: these vaccines and about you know, the impact it has
Speaker 1: on our body. What are the concerns that kind of
Speaker 1: an overdosing of a COVID vaccine could mean? So, you know,
Speaker 1: everything in life is a risk and a benefit ratio
Speaker 1: whatever decisions we make, and certainly being unprotected against COVID
Speaker 1: is not a smart thing to do, because we do
Speaker 1: know that about a third of patients have long COVID,
Speaker 1: so we do our best to protect the issue was
Speaker 1: raised about influenza absolutely. Flu shots, although not perfectly effective,
Speaker 1: certainly can be very helpful. You know, we're starting to
Speaker 1: give that now, so that's important. We certainly know the
Speaker 1: two vaccines are really reduced of for COVID, certainly reduced
Speaker 1: the risk of death and hospitalization. We don't know that
Speaker 1: much about the third vaccine. We certainly know a small
Speaker 1: percentage of people who get the m R and A
Speaker 1: shots um can have other issues myocarditis, pericardius or neurologic issues. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is a very small number, and overall, the the
Speaker 1: benefit of the vaccine over overrides really the risks. But
Speaker 1: people should know that these are not risk free vaccines. Importantly,
Speaker 1: side effects can occur. Importantly, Also, the vaccines are different
Speaker 1: and differences are emerging across them. How do you parse
Speaker 1: what's most important when it comes to the differences between
Speaker 1: the vaccines themselves. So at this point, um, it does
Speaker 1: little like the Maderna m R and A vaccines really
Speaker 1: do give a little bit longer lasting protection. Part of
Speaker 1: that might be the time interval, right, So initially we
Speaker 1: were giving a three week interval between a fiser and
Speaker 1: four weeks with the Maderna. It does turn out that
Speaker 1: maybe that gap between the first two shots really can
Speaker 1: give you longer lasting protection. J and J initially did
Speaker 1: not have numbers quite as high, but over time it
Speaker 1: does seem to help. And that also seems to be
Speaker 1: boosted if you give an MR and a vaccine several
Speaker 1: weeks or months after the the J and J. So
Speaker 1: it does look like for the majority of people, of
Speaker 1: healthy people, they are pretty well protected. I want to say,
Speaker 1: whither without approval At this point, people can go into
Speaker 1: you know, local pharmacies. I've got patients who get their vaccines.
Speaker 1: It really so there's no one preventing that. But it
Speaker 1: really has to be a recommendation B on the science
Speaker 1: behind it. And I don't think we really know other
Speaker 1: than saying that vulnerable people elderly diabetes, I mean it
Speaker 1: was suppressed. They're the risk of getting delta and complications
Speaker 1: are much higher than your average person who's otherwise healthy,
Speaker 1: who's who has already had two vaccines. Kitty Gratfeld was
Speaker 1: on with me yesterday at Bloomberg and she she only
Speaker 1: actually talked about people she knows. You just walked into
Speaker 1: pharmacies and like, I need a shot. It was a
Speaker 1: third shot, and they just did it. It happened to
Speaker 1: me in front of me the other day, did it, Yes,
Speaker 1: so we know it's happening. Well, go ahead, people if
Speaker 1: they want to get it, you know you can do it.
Speaker 1: And people who don't want vaccines, you know. Obviously we're
Speaker 1: not yet forcing people to do that in the United States. Um,
Speaker 1: but I think we should wait for more data. And
Speaker 1: I don't think there's an emergency at this point. If
Speaker 1: you're otherwise healthy, it is not a panic to get
Speaker 1: a third booster at this time. Hey, real quickly thirty
Speaker 1: seconds here? You know, China can't seem to get a break.
Speaker 1: There is so where where there's tons of people, lots
Speaker 1: of vaccines have been given out. They contract data points
Speaker 1: like no other uh probably country. Their problems tell tell
Speaker 1: you what about this virus? And again just got about
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Well, I'm not sure how effective the sign
Speaker 1: of VAC vaccine really is and they maybe having other
Speaker 1: mutations that they're not testing for. We need to do
Speaker 1: a better job. In general. There are new nasal vaccines
Speaker 1: for COVID that are being worked on. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of different approaches that we really need to make
Speaker 1: efforts that may be equally or more effective for new mutations.
Speaker 1: The data out of China could be a new mutation
Speaker 1: or could just be a less effective vaccine. All right, good,
Speaker 1: great always Ian, thank you, thank you, thank you. Have
Speaker 1: a wonderful and safe weekend. Dr Ian las Bader, clinical
Speaker 1: Professor of Medicine at n y U Land, going on
Speaker 1: the phone in New York City. The more I learned,
Speaker 1: the more I feel like I don't know, but he helps.
Speaker 1: He does help clarify a lot. Though. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, you know we often
Speaker 1: reference something being a great business school case study. We
Speaker 1: to that a lot here on Bloomberg Business Week. Case
Speaker 1: studies now part of business school's efforts to improve diversity.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. It's all part of the coverage
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Weeks annual survey and coverage of the
Speaker 1: world's top NBA program. So let's get into it with
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, getor Joe Weber here in our Interactive
Speaker 1: broker studio, and also with us Bloomberg News Higher Education
Speaker 1: Finance reporter Janet Lauren on the phone, in New York
Speaker 1: City case studies right at the heart of like getting
Speaker 1: an m b A. And yet yeah, well, and it
Speaker 1: is a topic that we think about it the magazine
Speaker 1: a lot. I like in some of our our most
Speaker 1: noteworthy stories to to sort of our version case studies.
Speaker 1: And so I thought this was a really interesting story,
Speaker 1: um that Janet was able to contribute to the package.
Speaker 1: Because you go to business school, what do you what
Speaker 1: do you learn? Yeah? That's to me. Yeah, well, the
Speaker 1: case studies really the DNA of that experience, right, and
Speaker 1: as you as we've all known for the past uh
Speaker 1: from all of our amazing reporting from the past year,
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, this is a lot of white
Speaker 1: and male stuff, right, so so let's shake up the
Speaker 1: case study, right, So Janale, what does that end up
Speaker 1: looking like? Oh? Well, what's so interesting? And I'm curious
Speaker 1: to see what Janet found here. But to the point,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of you know, if you're going
Speaker 1: into retail, you will find more case studies where women
Speaker 1: have become the CEO turned things around. But when it
Speaker 1: comes to other more hardcore areas of finance where women
Speaker 1: have not really dominated yet, like quant finance, I mean
Speaker 1: even the class. It was like two women in most
Speaker 1: of my classes. So and very few case studies that
Speaker 1: involved women because the women have not risen to the
Speaker 1: CEO level in those industries yet. So, Janet, how are
Speaker 1: they changing this? Well, it doesn't have to be the
Speaker 1: CEO to be a compelling character in a case study.
Speaker 1: For example, the one we mentioned in our story was
Speaker 1: rosal And Fox of John Dear, the tractor agriculture manufacturer UM.
Speaker 1: And she was the first black woman manager of a factory,
Speaker 1: and that was a compelling enough reason for Harvard to
Speaker 1: feature her as a case study. That's why that was interesting.
Speaker 1: I think I always think about case studies as being
Speaker 1: these huge big blow ups or problems or or you know,
Speaker 1: it's usually involving the C suite and the CEO or something.
Speaker 1: But as you point out, there are some really great
Speaker 1: stories case studies and lessons to be learned by people UM.
Speaker 1: Certainly diversity UH and diverse people maybe lower on UH
Speaker 1: you know, the career ladder, but they're still leaders and
Speaker 1: still facing challenges, and they're still dealing with with issues
Speaker 1: and problems, and it's you know, you can learn as
Speaker 1: much from somebody who may not be the CEO by
Speaker 1: listening to their experience. And if you read the case
Speaker 1: study of Rosalind Fox, you know you could hear about
Speaker 1: the isolation she you know, she experienced while living in
Speaker 1: a small town of in Wisconsin a six months people.
Speaker 1: And she was recruited by John Dear and you know
Speaker 1: that was one of the things she was concerned about
Speaker 1: in going and taking the job. In another case studying
Speaker 1: we mentioned UM. Stanford, in addition to Harvard, has been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of outreach and just asking their alumni
Speaker 1: and asking faculty members to reach out and find other
Speaker 1: UM potential protagonists with diverse backgrounds. And Stanford featured you know,
Speaker 1: a woman who runs a car dealership, a black woman
Speaker 1: who runs a car dealership in Dayton, Ohio. Um, and
Speaker 1: she's the second generation running that card dealership. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know that was an interesting case study for Stanford,
Speaker 1: you know, which bears mentioning. Stanford number one in our
Speaker 1: tanking of NBA UH NBA schools, UH programs. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I here's my big question. So so interesting Stanford number
Speaker 1: one in networking, number one in compensation, such great things,
Speaker 1: but they're not among the top ten when it comes
Speaker 1: to diversity. I don't want to be super tough on
Speaker 1: these business schools because I've got to say they're not
Speaker 1: doing horrible, all right, I mean they are top twenty.
Speaker 1: I've got to say, when I went to business school,
Speaker 1: I was more pleased with the diversity than I wasn't
Speaker 1: even in college. So Joel, how did I mean, how
Speaker 1: did you guys even think about how to approach diversity
Speaker 1: in these programs as you guys did this for the
Speaker 1: first time. Well, the it's all driven by survey, right,
Speaker 1: and so it ends up being thousands and thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of surveys, and that is our data point, right, like,
Speaker 1: whatever those responses are what we build that around recognizing
Speaker 1: that this was such an important thing that we wanted
Speaker 1: to actually help acknowledge in the schools are recognized that
Speaker 1: there's a challenge here, but they're also doing things about it.
Speaker 1: And that's what we effectively, you know, centered the survey
Speaker 1: questions on UM. But you know what what that ties into,
Speaker 1: I think is also what this article of Janet's reflect
Speaker 1: which is that case study about John Dear didn't come
Speaker 1: from a professor, right when did you come from? Janet?
Speaker 1: It came from a student, and that students said I
Speaker 1: want to be reflected in these case studies. And she
Speaker 1: she spoke up and she suggested Rosalind Fox. Rosalind was
Speaker 1: not her manager, but she was someone who mentored her
Speaker 1: at John Deere and Low and behold she became a
Speaker 1: case study. And Harvard is mandating and it's required first
Speaker 1: year NBA courses that every every course have a protagonist
Speaker 1: with a diverse background. So what I like about that
Speaker 1: she just shows this relationship that I think the business
Speaker 1: schools are really they're leaning into their own students, right,
Speaker 1: and they recognize that their own students can help them
Speaker 1: solve these problems, and that surfaces new material that they
Speaker 1: wouldn't otherwise have been able to have. So I just
Speaker 1: thought that was a really really clever insight into what
Speaker 1: makes business schools also special, right, And like we we've
Speaker 1: gotten to so many of these business schools together, and
Speaker 1: it's like that network that is the network effect, right
Speaker 1: for all these people together, and you you talk about
Speaker 1: the problems and solutions and you create better leaders out
Speaker 1: of it, right, Exactly What's interesting We talked about brands
Speaker 1: all the time and how customers are pushing brands and
Speaker 1: companies right to be were diverse or were sensitive to
Speaker 1: the environment. What's interesting, though, Janet is a student pushing this,
Speaker 1: you know, to get a more diverse case study. Yet
Speaker 1: in your story you point out that it might be
Speaker 1: unclear whether professors will embrace it equally. What did you
Speaker 1: hear about that? So? Um so the professor that I
Speaker 1: spoke with at U C. L A. Had talked about how,
Speaker 1: you know, like a decade ago, you know, in a
Speaker 1: psychology course, he had brought in um diverse people in
Speaker 1: his in his discussions and case studies, and he said
Speaker 1: students were wondering, well, why why are you Why are
Speaker 1: you including this? It doesn't really feel relevant. And now
Speaker 1: a decade later, you know, students are really asking for it.
Speaker 1: But the question is book, If you're a business school
Speaker 1: professor and you've been teaching a class for decades, you
Speaker 1: know you that add more work for you to change
Speaker 1: out your case studies. You know, it's a lot of
Speaker 1: work to find case studies to to you know, have
Speaker 1: to teach them, and they may not want to switch
Speaker 1: up their courses if you know you've got an oldie,
Speaker 1: but goody, you know who who's going to replace that?
Speaker 1: And it takes effort on that time unto students keep
Speaker 1: answering these surveys that you're doing, Joel and saying this
Speaker 1: is what we want. You know, that's exactly right. And
Speaker 1: and it's also why we've continued to just champion this
Speaker 1: this ranking because like the students end up being the
Speaker 1: engine that drives it, they become alumni. The alumni also
Speaker 1: are a big part of who do takes part in
Speaker 1: these surveys. The more you do that, the more it
Speaker 1: actually helps everything. Joe, Well, we're gonna have more offshoots
Speaker 1: of certainly the Business Week coverage in the magazine that's
Speaker 1: in weeks to come. Joe Weber, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. Editor Bloomberg Business Week. Here in
Speaker 1: our studio, Janet Laura and check her out at Janet
Speaker 1: Lauren on Twitter, Higher education finance reporter at Bloomberg News.
Speaker 1: You can find her story too at business week dot com.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get in
Speaker 1: to it. Our check on the cryptocurrency world. We've got
Speaker 1: a company that is developing digital tools to merge the
Speaker 1: traditional capital markets and crypto assets here to tell us
Speaker 1: more and Jale and I've been talking behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: We have a million questions for Alec Flenberg you see
Speaker 1: of Nimbus. He's on the phone in New York City, Alex. UM,
Speaker 1: so great to have you here with Shinali and myself.
Speaker 1: First of all, I've been reading about your company, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to be quite honest with you. UM, I'm
Speaker 1: a little confused, so tell me exactly what you guys do.
Speaker 1: So so good afternoon, ladies, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for having me on the show. It's a real pleasure. UM.
Speaker 1: And I hope and I hope. Well, I think there's
Speaker 1: only a ten minute segment, so a million questions going
Speaker 1: to be pretty tough. Try to speak. Well, have you
Speaker 1: back again, UM, So what do we do? We we
Speaker 1: are firmly fixed in providing solutions within the decentralized finance space.
Speaker 1: What does that really just mean in layman's terms, all
Speaker 1: of the things that we've been doing, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: in the centralized standard eyes general uh financial services space
Speaker 1: and the lending space. UM, in the traditional trading space,
Speaker 1: we're going to be looking to do exactly the same
Speaker 1: things and leveraging what the team's you know, multiple decades.
Speaker 1: I would say at least every every single leader on
Speaker 1: this team has at least three decades in the UH
Speaker 1: centralized you know, standardized financial services space. So we're looking
Speaker 1: to bring that experience to the decentralized space. What does
Speaker 1: that mean. Yeah, So decentralized finance. One way, I try
Speaker 1: to explain it to people and tell me how you
Speaker 1: make the comparison. The centralized finance reminds me a lot
Speaker 1: of peer to peer lending, where there's a human being
Speaker 1: on the other side somewhere. Um, how does this actually work?
Speaker 1: And how do you compare it to just peer to
Speaker 1: peer lending like we've seen the last several years, right,
Speaker 1: So so so peer to peer lending. So peer to
Speaker 1: peer lending is one component of the centralized finance, right
Speaker 1: and and that's also how we've we're starting, you know,
Speaker 1: from the tools designs that we're implementing. So we're we're
Speaker 1: actually provided two main apps, right, One that's for lending
Speaker 1: and borrowing h with you know, through peer to peer
Speaker 1: UH and also the exchange of currency off exchange so
Speaker 1: that we don't have any fees associated with it. And
Speaker 1: also because we're not an exchange. We're doing it off exchange. Um,
Speaker 1: it's impossible to hack us, right, So, so there's a
Speaker 1: great risk metrics there. But from a peer to peer perspective, uh,
Speaker 1: there's very little difference between what decentralized finances and peer
Speaker 1: to peer is providing versus what the last two decades
Speaker 1: of the lending clubs and and the prospers uh that
Speaker 1: they've done. Except they've done it off change and we're
Speaker 1: doing it on change. So why is it better? Why
Speaker 1: is it better? So I'll tell you sees ultimately, Ultimately, ultimately,
Speaker 1: if we think about all of the decentralized activity that
Speaker 1: we've seen over the last twenty or so years, starting
Speaker 1: from you know, I mean you know mean no long
Speaker 1: we're having to call a broker in order to get
Speaker 1: an executioner to get a quote. Right. Uh, When when
Speaker 1: that deessentralization happened and we started being able to trade
Speaker 1: from our phones and our laptops without having to me
Speaker 1: that call. Remember, transparency uh was it was a big
Speaker 1: part of that. But also primarily it was the spees
Speaker 1: I drove that if I don't if I don't have
Speaker 1: to use a broker, I can do the same things
Speaker 1: without those seas, and that's driving this industry as wend
Speaker 1: so magical lower fees per peer learning. But the reality
Speaker 1: too is there's a lot of risk involved. How do
Speaker 1: you get comfortable with lending and barrowing two people you
Speaker 1: don't know without actually insurance? By the way, like, where's
Speaker 1: the oversight? Who? All? Right? Right? So I'm very happy
Speaker 1: he said that because Look, one of the thing, one
Speaker 1: of the reasons I keep harping on the fact that
Speaker 1: the leadership of this team has spent their lifetime, you know,
Speaker 1: I've spent twenty seven years in the in the you know,
Speaker 1: in the real standardized you know, centralized financial services. The
Speaker 1: reason I keep harping on that is because you're there
Speaker 1: is a tremendous amount of risk, inherent risk in doing
Speaker 1: it on chain or off chain. Right. The reason why
Speaker 1: it's so important to pick products that are being developed
Speaker 1: by folks with our level of experience is that we're
Speaker 1: not looking to dethrone traditional finance, right, We're not looking
Speaker 1: There are no you know, to us, you know, the standardized, generalized,
Speaker 1: centralized banking sector. They're not the enemy. And let's let's
Speaker 1: be realistic, ladies, you know, just because we're calling it
Speaker 1: a disruption. Just because we're calling it as an industry
Speaker 1: decentralization move doesn't mean that this traditional banking institutions and
Speaker 1: alternative assets institutions are not going into the space. They
Speaker 1: are going to go into the space very very heavily,
Speaker 1: and they bring with them a tremendous amount of experience
Speaker 1: and and liquidity. So we're actually providing that level of
Speaker 1: experience and oversight to the community as well. Alex just
Speaker 1: quickly got about forty twonds left here. I mean, my
Speaker 1: understanding is you guys are moving towards a listing on
Speaker 1: on with American Stock Exchange. So is the plan or
Speaker 1: maybe is it ultimately that you end up being linked up,
Speaker 1: bought out by merged with one of the traditional financial
Speaker 1: Wall Street houses. And again just quickly so so I'll
Speaker 1: tell you, being a compliance officer for many years, there's
Speaker 1: no way that I could actually even speak to that.
Speaker 1: But I am going to tell you that you are
Speaker 1: right that we are. We are moving very heavily uh
Speaker 1: to bring in a k y C n m L
Speaker 1: and get registered in the state or for for global purposes,
Speaker 1: all right, because we do feel that there's a good
Speaker 1: balance to actually do that but but yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: certainly the direction of all right, we still have nine
Speaker 1: thousand questions to ask you, but we'll do that next time.
Speaker 1: Alex thinks so much. Alex Lemberg, CEO at Nimbus, on
Speaker 1: the phone in New York City. I'm a journal now,
Speaker 1: but you let me drive. No, no, no, all right, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the right I want to try question. This
Speaker 1: is the drive to the globe. Give thanks, We'll try
Speaker 1: us down on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get to it. We've
Speaker 1: just got about ten nine minutes left in today's trading session.
Speaker 1: We're hovering around our worst levels of the day. We
Speaker 1: are on track for a second down week when it
Speaker 1: comes to US equities. Let's get to it with Ryan Kelly,
Speaker 1: Senior VP portfolio manager at Hennessey Funds with us on
Speaker 1: the phone in Raleigh, North Carolina. Among the funds he
Speaker 1: helps manage, the Hennessy Gas Utility Fund up about eleven
Speaker 1: year to date, putting it in the eighty second percentile
Speaker 1: among its peers. That's according to Bloomberg Data. Ryan, the
Speaker 1: energy story is certainly one that we've been watching this week.
Speaker 1: How are you and how do you see that? Group? Hi? Good,
Speaker 1: to be on again. Good to hear from you and
Speaker 1: the group. Utility group has certainly been lagging this year
Speaker 1: last year as well, but that's usually the time when
Speaker 1: we think it starts to get a little bit more interesting. UM.
Speaker 1: This is a group that we like for many reasons. Uh.
Speaker 1: It has good dividend yields, it has a nice long
Speaker 1: term uh projection of earnings, it's pretty stable earnings. These
Speaker 1: are companies that we need no matter what. It's a
Speaker 1: central part of the economy. UM. And yes, they have
Speaker 1: been sort of pushed to the side last year and
Speaker 1: this year, but this also makes it at this point
Speaker 1: much more compelling valuation. They're trading at about a three
Speaker 1: multiple discount to the SMP five. Generally they actually trade
Speaker 1: just slight premium to the SMP. But you know, there's
Speaker 1: been so much money going into all the other sectors
Speaker 1: of the market and too. You know, last year is
Speaker 1: all about large cap it was about technology. Uh. This year, Uh,
Speaker 1: some of the sectors that really got hammered last year,
Speaker 1: such as financials and energy, they've come flying back this year.
Speaker 1: But you know, something like utilities, we think it is
Speaker 1: still a really good long term holding for long term investors,
Speaker 1: So how much are you rushing the safety now? You
Speaker 1: made this comment about how these are companies that will
Speaker 1: do well no matter what. We've seen a few days
Speaker 1: of slight full pullbacks in SMP in the last week
Speaker 1: or so. Are you looking for safety now? Well? I think, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen a little pullback, we're still only
Speaker 1: about two and a half percent off the highs give
Speaker 1: or take. UM. This is such a resilient market. It's
Speaker 1: it's hard to to tell, you know, if we are
Speaker 1: going to have that next big correction that everybody talks
Speaker 1: about UM. And you know we've seen it again and
Speaker 1: again for the last year. Ever, every time that there's
Speaker 1: a pullback, it takes on average five days to hit
Speaker 1: a new high UM. So UM, you know, things seem
Speaker 1: a little different maybe this time, but potentially not. No,
Speaker 1: this is more of UM. I like to talk about
Speaker 1: utilities in this space a little bit more long term
Speaker 1: right now, in that we are entering there is a
Speaker 1: defensive side, which you mentioned, but we're entering really the
Speaker 1: first endings i'd say, of a very very long term
Speaker 1: transformative UM expansion for many of these companies UM driven
Speaker 1: by clean energy, driven by new technologies driven by electrification.
Speaker 1: If we are going to get to a space a
Speaker 1: place where we have you know, say, um, many more
Speaker 1: electric vehicles on the on the road, and many more
Speaker 1: appliances being you know, you using electricity. I've seen studies
Speaker 1: that show that we're going to need an electrical grid
Speaker 1: which is two times bigger than it is right now,
Speaker 1: which means what good things for natural gas? It means
Speaker 1: it means good things for a few things we have
Speaker 1: in this fund. We have utilities in general, so it's
Speaker 1: really good for electric utilities. This is a long term
Speaker 1: runway of growth and utilities in general, whether it's natural
Speaker 1: gas or electric. Um. These are the companies that when
Speaker 1: they invest in their infrastructure. This infrastructure a huge word
Speaker 1: right now. When Capex goes up, longer term earnings per
Speaker 1: share go up, but it causes growth rate and earnings
Speaker 1: per share when they have to spend more to reinvest
Speaker 1: in our infrastructure and to get bigger. Is there right?
Speaker 1: One thing I do wonder though increasingly Snolly knows it.
Speaker 1: She covers it, She talks about it all the time
Speaker 1: about you know, e s G on Wall Street among
Speaker 1: institutional investors, you know, looking for kind of a greener
Speaker 1: way forward, greener it's a little vague I think right now,
Speaker 1: because there aren't really true standards out there when it
Speaker 1: comes to regulators and what it means. But I mean,
Speaker 1: do you see in the near future that you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to pivot more because institutional investors will demand it.
Speaker 1: Investors will demand it that your investments reflect a cleaner
Speaker 1: way forward when it comes to the impact on the environment. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's certainly that that that pressure
Speaker 1: that's happening already, and that that's not only from institutional
Speaker 1: investors and other investors, it's also from the companies themselves. UM,
Speaker 1: many utilities themselves. Uh. They are pushing for whether or
Speaker 1: not the government is or you know, politically we're moving
Speaker 1: that way or not. They are pushing for net zero
Speaker 1: type emissions by twenty fifty duke energy down in my area,
Speaker 1: for instance. So that movement is happening, and that does
Speaker 1: mean a whole lot of investment for many decades to come.
Speaker 1: I think personally, the way that we believe is that, um,
Speaker 1: it's going to be really hard to go to straight
Speaker 1: on full renewables, and natural gas is a very good
Speaker 1: complementary energy source to renewables, because you know, there are
Speaker 1: certain times when we have to have a large scale
Speaker 1: quickly turned on electricity generation, and natural gas is a
Speaker 1: very good way to do that. You know you own
Speaker 1: Berkshire as well. For me, Caroline, I love watching the
Speaker 1: Berkshire bets. What do you want? What do you want
Speaker 1: Warren Buffett to be doing with all that extra money? Well,
Speaker 1: it's an interesting question. So, UM, the the way that
Speaker 1: this fund is run, it is a fund which is
Speaker 1: primarily invested in any company, most of companies that are
Speaker 1: natural gas distribution companies. Now Berkshire Hathaway obviously does not
Speaker 1: sound like one at all, Um, but they have a
Speaker 1: very large company within their structure called min American, which
Speaker 1: is a utility company and energy company. So that's why
Speaker 1: it's in the fund. UM, and it happens to be,
Speaker 1: you know, market cap weighted funds, so it's UM one
Speaker 1: of the largest holdings in the stand. Well, good to
Speaker 1: get some time with you. This is certainly a topic
Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot about more generally when it
Speaker 1: comes to energy and just kind of watching several hotspots
Speaker 1: around the world when it comes to energy crunches. Ryan,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Ryan, Kelly, He's portfolio manager at
Speaker 1: Hennessy Funds on the from Raleigh. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or
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