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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing

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Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business

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Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on

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Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. You are listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week Carol Master along with Shinali Bassik here in

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Speaker 1: our interactive broker studio. Let's get to a little bit

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Speaker 1: more on COVID and the vaccine because top of mine

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Speaker 1: Sali mentioned it earlier. We've got President Bush his push

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Speaker 1: to begin offering third doses of Visor's vaccine, facing the

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Speaker 1: first of two crucial tests. Advisers to the FDA meeting

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Speaker 1: today to talk about whether booster shots should be offered

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Speaker 1: to most Americans. So the process moving forward today, we

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Speaker 1: are expecting some type of vote expected later this afternoon.

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Speaker 1: So let's see what's top of mind for Dr Ian

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Speaker 1: LUs Bader, his clinical Professor Medicine at n y U

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Speaker 1: Land Going. He joined us once again on the phone

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Speaker 1: in New York City. Hey, Ian, good to have you

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Speaker 1: back with us. How are you. I'm good, Happy Friday,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back Caros, Thank you, thank you. I got

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Speaker 1: a needed break and it's good to be back. But

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Speaker 1: I do feel like so many of the same stories

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Speaker 1: that I left are still here, understandably, So how do

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Speaker 1: you see the way forward when it comes to this pandemic?

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Speaker 1: You and I UH and Tim and our team have

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Speaker 1: been talking to you a lot. What's next here? So

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Speaker 1: there's a big debate about the third dost or the

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Speaker 1: or the booster dose for COVID, and you know who,

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Speaker 1: what and when is really the question. A lot of

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Speaker 1: this data is based on Israel, where you know, they

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Speaker 1: had a relationship with the fiser and they got their

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Speaker 1: vaccines very early, really December in January. It's not earlier

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Speaker 1: last year, so it's been almost a year. And what

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Speaker 1: they are noting is really the effectiveness of the vaccine

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Speaker 1: is dropping from about to about and that's both due

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Speaker 1: to dropping antibody levels, which we know happens after a while,

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Speaker 1: and also mutations, you know in the virus. This was

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Speaker 1: to the alpha variant. The delta variant actually has a

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Speaker 1: different confirmation of the spike protein, and so based on

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Speaker 1: a number of issues, including a much higher viral load

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Speaker 1: of with delta, people are asymptomatic and often have very

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Speaker 1: very high levels. So that's really what we're seeing, and

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Speaker 1: concern about transfer. I mean, in other words, you're not

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Speaker 1: getting sick, but you're now have ability to pass COVID around. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think that's certainly one of the elements. So that's

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Speaker 1: really what we're seeing in Israel, and really what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing here is that the majority of people who've been

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Speaker 1: vaccinated are not getting very sick at all. A small

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Speaker 1: sent are and in Israel and here as well, the

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Speaker 1: small percent of people who've been vaccinated. Actually in Israel

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Speaker 1: it's about half the hospitalized patients had two vaccines. They

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Speaker 1: typically have heart disease or lung disease, diabetes, hypertension, they

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Speaker 1: have a number of other issues, and so it is

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Speaker 1: likely if we're going to do a booster, it should

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Speaker 1: be in those susceptible groups. You know, we know that

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Speaker 1: the third vaccine really does raise antibodies. The question is

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Speaker 1: doesn't change anything? Will it really change hospitalization and death rates?

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Speaker 1: So that's really the question. And then the question also

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Speaker 1: comes up, what about side effects or potential side effects

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Speaker 1: months or years down the line. So what do you

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Speaker 1: make of the meeting today of the FDA advisors and

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Speaker 1: what will come out of it? How fast can we

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Speaker 1: expect decisions to be made by the Biden administration and

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Speaker 1: then guidance given to the bulk of the country. You know, candidly,

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Speaker 1: I think we need more data. We really should have

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Speaker 1: been all along the way doing a variety of our

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Speaker 1: own studies, both on the MR and A vaccines and

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Speaker 1: patient populations, monoclonal antibodies, UM other drugs and other treatments,

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Speaker 1: you know, for COVID, we we really should be a

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Speaker 1: leader instead of relying on other data. My bet is

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Speaker 1: that they are going to say it's absolutely reasonable for

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Speaker 1: people the IMMO compromised people with underlying diseases, but I

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Speaker 1: think they're going to wait on advising it for a

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Speaker 1: big group of people. First of all, we know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people now really have very high endibody levels,

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Speaker 1: you know, and what we don't know is we'll even

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Speaker 1: higher antibody levels really make a significant difference. We before

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Speaker 1: we subject people to the potential risk of a third vaccine,

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Speaker 1: we really should know. Does a higher antibody level really

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Speaker 1: change an outcome? That's really the question. This is a

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Speaker 1: really big week with so many people going back to school,

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Speaker 1: So what are you expecting for the next buple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean that there may be a lot more cases?

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Speaker 1: And does that um really start to change the calculus

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Speaker 1: of how people think about this disease. You know, even

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Speaker 1: though we're getting closer to what we used to think

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Speaker 1: of her immunity is right vaccinations. Seventy Americans have had

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Speaker 1: at least one vaccine. There's a group of about fifty

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Speaker 1: or sixty million people who you know, remain unvaccinated, although

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Speaker 1: slowly that seeming to chip down. I think we are

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Speaker 1: going to continue to see a rise in COVID cases

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Speaker 1: really in the unvaccinated, and I think everyone ultimately is

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Speaker 1: going to be exposed to delta. It's highly contagious, but

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Speaker 1: I think most people who are vaccinated will have either

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Speaker 1: minimal or no symptoms. They'll have a cost, they'll have

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Speaker 1: a cold, and if they don't get tested, they may

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Speaker 1: never even really know. And I think eventually we will

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Speaker 1: all build up antibodies to that, and unless there's a

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Speaker 1: new mutation, I think we will sort of learn to

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Speaker 1: live with delta, you know, one that group of fifty

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Speaker 1: million people you know, wind up getting it. Now. Of

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Speaker 1: course there will be some hospitalizations and deaths in the unvaccinated,

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Speaker 1: but that at this point is a relatively small percent

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Speaker 1: of the population. Well, and it is interesting. I thought

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Speaker 1: the point you made about a third dose. We don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily know all the side effects of getting one, and

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Speaker 1: that's just something to consider as they as they move forward.

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Speaker 1: Certainly regulators, Um, Dr Lusbader, sit tight, We'll come back.

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Speaker 1: Dr Ian los Bader, where you're talking with on this

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Speaker 1: Friday's clinical professor of medicine over at n y U

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Speaker 1: Landgoing Medical Center on the phone in New York City?

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Speaker 1: Are you ready Shinale to get a third booster? I

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Speaker 1: would like it as soon as possible, like him would

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Speaker 1: be like, I want it yesterday. UM. I do like

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Speaker 1: that they're gathering more information because I think we're getting

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Speaker 1: pieces from different parties, and you know, we know, right

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Speaker 1: data is important to really understanding maybe what's to come. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: what's the best move? Definitely, but people are back in

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Speaker 1: full force. It definitely feels like it definitely feels it.

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Speaker 1: Are you are listening to Bloomberg this week on this Friday,

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Speaker 1: Carol Masser, Shinali Bassik, and we'll be back in just

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Speaker 1: a moment right here on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get right

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Speaker 1: back to Dr Ian los Beta, clinical professor of Medicine

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Speaker 1: at n y U Landgown, still with us on the

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Speaker 1: phone in New York City. So Dr ls Beder, one

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Speaker 1: thing that really caught my attention when you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't know the side effects of a third possible dose.

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Speaker 1: I mean we are still learning in real time about

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Speaker 1: these vaccines and about you know, the impact it has

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Speaker 1: on our body. What are the concerns that kind of

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Speaker 1: an overdosing of a COVID vaccine could mean? So, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything in life is a risk and a benefit ratio

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Speaker 1: whatever decisions we make, and certainly being unprotected against COVID

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Speaker 1: is not a smart thing to do, because we do

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Speaker 1: know that about a third of patients have long COVID,

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Speaker 1: so we do our best to protect the issue was

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Speaker 1: raised about influenza absolutely. Flu shots, although not perfectly effective,

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Speaker 1: certainly can be very helpful. You know, we're starting to

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Speaker 1: give that now, so that's important. We certainly know the

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Speaker 1: two vaccines are really reduced of for COVID, certainly reduced

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Speaker 1: the risk of death and hospitalization. We don't know that

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Speaker 1: much about the third vaccine. We certainly know a small

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Speaker 1: percentage of people who get the m R and A

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Speaker 1: shots um can have other issues myocarditis, pericardius or neurologic issues. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it is a very small number, and overall, the the

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Speaker 1: benefit of the vaccine over overrides really the risks. But

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Speaker 1: people should know that these are not risk free vaccines. Importantly,

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Speaker 1: side effects can occur. Importantly, Also, the vaccines are different

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Speaker 1: and differences are emerging across them. How do you parse

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Speaker 1: what's most important when it comes to the differences between

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Speaker 1: the vaccines themselves. So at this point, um, it does

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Speaker 1: little like the Maderna m R and A vaccines really

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Speaker 1: do give a little bit longer lasting protection. Part of

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Speaker 1: that might be the time interval, right, So initially we

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Speaker 1: were giving a three week interval between a fiser and

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Speaker 1: four weeks with the Maderna. It does turn out that

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Speaker 1: maybe that gap between the first two shots really can

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Speaker 1: give you longer lasting protection. J and J initially did

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Speaker 1: not have numbers quite as high, but over time it

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Speaker 1: does seem to help. And that also seems to be

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Speaker 1: boosted if you give an MR and a vaccine several

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Speaker 1: weeks or months after the the J and J. So

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Speaker 1: it does look like for the majority of people, of

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Speaker 1: healthy people, they are pretty well protected. I want to say,

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Speaker 1: whither without approval At this point, people can go into

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Speaker 1: you know, local pharmacies. I've got patients who get their vaccines.

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Speaker 1: It really so there's no one preventing that. But it

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Speaker 1: really has to be a recommendation B on the science

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Speaker 1: behind it. And I don't think we really know other

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Speaker 1: than saying that vulnerable people elderly diabetes, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was suppressed. They're the risk of getting delta and complications

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Speaker 1: are much higher than your average person who's otherwise healthy,

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Speaker 1: who's who has already had two vaccines. Kitty Gratfeld was

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Speaker 1: on with me yesterday at Bloomberg and she she only

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Speaker 1: actually talked about people she knows. You just walked into

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Speaker 1: pharmacies and like, I need a shot. It was a

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Speaker 1: third shot, and they just did it. It happened to

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Speaker 1: me in front of me the other day, did it, Yes,

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Speaker 1: so we know it's happening. Well, go ahead, people if

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Speaker 1: they want to get it, you know you can do it.

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Speaker 1: And people who don't want vaccines, you know. Obviously we're

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Speaker 1: not yet forcing people to do that in the United States. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I think we should wait for more data. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's an emergency at this point. If

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Speaker 1: you're otherwise healthy, it is not a panic to get

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Speaker 1: a third booster at this time. Hey, real quickly thirty

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Speaker 1: seconds here? You know, China can't seem to get a break.

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Speaker 1: There is so where where there's tons of people, lots

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Speaker 1: of vaccines have been given out. They contract data points

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Speaker 1: like no other uh probably country. Their problems tell tell

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Speaker 1: you what about this virus? And again just got about

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Well, I'm not sure how effective the sign

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Speaker 1: of VAC vaccine really is and they maybe having other

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Speaker 1: mutations that they're not testing for. We need to do

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Speaker 1: a better job. In general. There are new nasal vaccines

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Speaker 1: for COVID that are being worked on. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of different approaches that we really need to make

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Speaker 1: efforts that may be equally or more effective for new mutations.

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Speaker 1: The data out of China could be a new mutation

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Speaker 1: or could just be a less effective vaccine. All right, good,

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Speaker 1: great always Ian, thank you, thank you, thank you. Have

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Speaker 1: a wonderful and safe weekend. Dr Ian las Bader, clinical

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Speaker 1: Professor of Medicine at n y U Land, going on

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Speaker 1: the phone in New York City. The more I learned,

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Speaker 1: the more I feel like I don't know, but he helps.

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Speaker 1: He does help clarify a lot. Though. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes

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Speaker 1: Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, you know we often

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Speaker 1: reference something being a great business school case study. We

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Speaker 1: to that a lot here on Bloomberg Business Week. Case

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Speaker 1: studies now part of business school's efforts to improve diversity.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it. It's all part of the coverage

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Weeks annual survey and coverage of the

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Speaker 1: world's top NBA program. So let's get into it with

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, getor Joe Weber here in our Interactive

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Speaker 1: Finance reporter Janet Lauren on the phone, in New York

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Speaker 1: City case studies right at the heart of like getting

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Speaker 1: an m b A. And yet yeah, well, and it

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Speaker 1: is a topic that we think about it the magazine

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Speaker 1: a lot. I like in some of our our most

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Speaker 1: noteworthy stories to to sort of our version case studies.

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Speaker 1: And so I thought this was a really interesting story,

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Speaker 1: um that Janet was able to contribute to the package.

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Speaker 1: Because you go to business school, what do you what

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Speaker 1: do you learn? Yeah? That's to me. Yeah, well, the

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Speaker 1: case studies really the DNA of that experience, right, and

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Speaker 1: from all of our amazing reporting from the past year,

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Speaker 1: it's like, all right, this is a lot of white

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Speaker 1: and male stuff, right, so so let's shake up the

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Speaker 1: case study, right, So Janale, what does that end up

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Speaker 1: looking like? Oh? Well, what's so interesting? And I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to see what Janet found here. But to the point,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of you know, if you're going

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Speaker 1: into retail, you will find more case studies where women

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Speaker 1: have become the CEO turned things around. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes to other more hardcore areas of finance where women

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Speaker 1: have not really dominated yet, like quant finance, I mean

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Speaker 1: even the class. It was like two women in most

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Speaker 1: of my classes. So and very few case studies that

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Speaker 1: involved women because the women have not risen to the

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Speaker 1: CEO level in those industries yet. So, Janet, how are

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Speaker 1: they changing this? Well, it doesn't have to be the

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Speaker 1: CEO to be a compelling character in a case study.

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Speaker 1: For example, the one we mentioned in our story was

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Speaker 1: rosal And Fox of John Dear, the tractor agriculture manufacturer UM.

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Speaker 1: And she was the first black woman manager of a factory,

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Speaker 1: and that was a compelling enough reason for Harvard to

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Speaker 1: feature her as a case study. That's why that was interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think I always think about case studies as being

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Speaker 1: these huge big blow ups or problems or or you know,

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Speaker 1: it's usually involving the C suite and the CEO or something.

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Speaker 1: But as you point out, there are some really great

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Speaker 1: stories case studies and lessons to be learned by people UM.

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Speaker 1: Certainly diversity UH and diverse people maybe lower on UH

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Speaker 1: you know, the career ladder, but they're still leaders and

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Speaker 1: still facing challenges, and they're still dealing with with issues

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Speaker 1: and problems, and it's you know, you can learn as

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Speaker 1: much from somebody who may not be the CEO by

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Speaker 1: listening to their experience. And if you read the case

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Speaker 1: study of Rosalind Fox, you know you could hear about

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Speaker 1: the isolation she you know, she experienced while living in

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Speaker 1: a small town of in Wisconsin a six months people.

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Speaker 1: And she was recruited by John Dear and you know

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Speaker 1: that was one of the things she was concerned about

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Speaker 1: in going and taking the job. In another case studying

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Speaker 1: we mentioned UM. Stanford, in addition to Harvard, has been

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of outreach and just asking their alumni

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Speaker 1: and asking faculty members to reach out and find other

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Speaker 1: UM potential protagonists with diverse backgrounds. And Stanford featured you know,

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Speaker 1: a woman who runs a car dealership, a black woman

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Speaker 1: who runs a car dealership in Dayton, Ohio. Um, and

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Speaker 1: she's the second generation running that card dealership. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know that was an interesting case study for Stanford,

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Speaker 1: you know, which bears mentioning. Stanford number one in our

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Speaker 1: tanking of NBA UH NBA schools, UH programs. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I here's my big question. So so interesting Stanford number

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Speaker 1: one in networking, number one in compensation, such great things,

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Speaker 1: but they're not among the top ten when it comes

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Speaker 1: to diversity. I don't want to be super tough on

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Speaker 1: these business schools because I've got to say they're not

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Speaker 1: doing horrible, all right, I mean they are top twenty.

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Speaker 1: I've got to say, when I went to business school,

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Speaker 1: I was more pleased with the diversity than I wasn't

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Speaker 1: even in college. So Joel, how did I mean, how

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Speaker 1: did you guys even think about how to approach diversity

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Speaker 1: in these programs as you guys did this for the

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Speaker 1: first time. Well, the it's all driven by survey, right,

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Speaker 1: and so it ends up being thousands and thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of surveys, and that is our data point, right, like,

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Speaker 1: whatever those responses are what we build that around recognizing

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Speaker 1: that this was such an important thing that we wanted

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Speaker 1: to actually help acknowledge in the schools are recognized that

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Speaker 1: there's a challenge here, but they're also doing things about it.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we effectively, you know, centered the survey

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Speaker 1: questions on UM. But you know what what that ties into,

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Speaker 1: I think is also what this article of Janet's reflect

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Speaker 1: which is that case study about John Dear didn't come

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Speaker 1: from a professor, right when did you come from? Janet?

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Speaker 1: It came from a student, and that students said I

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Speaker 1: want to be reflected in these case studies. And she

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Speaker 1: she spoke up and she suggested Rosalind Fox. Rosalind was

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Speaker 1: not her manager, but she was someone who mentored her

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Speaker 1: at John Deere and Low and behold she became a

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Speaker 1: case study. And Harvard is mandating and it's required first

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Speaker 1: year NBA courses that every every course have a protagonist

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Speaker 1: with a diverse background. So what I like about that

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Speaker 1: she just shows this relationship that I think the business

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Speaker 1: schools are really they're leaning into their own students, right,

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Speaker 1: and they recognize that their own students can help them

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Speaker 1: solve these problems, and that surfaces new material that they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't otherwise have been able to have. So I just

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Speaker 1: thought that was a really really clever insight into what

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Speaker 1: makes business schools also special, right, And like we we've

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Speaker 1: gotten to so many of these business schools together, and

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Speaker 1: it's like that network that is the network effect, right

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Speaker 1: for all these people together, and you you talk about

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Speaker 1: the problems and solutions and you create better leaders out

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Speaker 1: of it, right, Exactly What's interesting We talked about brands

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Speaker 1: all the time and how customers are pushing brands and

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Speaker 1: companies right to be were diverse or were sensitive to

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Speaker 1: the environment. What's interesting, though, Janet is a student pushing this,

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Speaker 1: you know, to get a more diverse case study. Yet

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Speaker 1: in your story you point out that it might be

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Speaker 1: unclear whether professors will embrace it equally. What did you

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Speaker 1: hear about that? So? Um so the professor that I

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Speaker 1: you know, like a decade ago, you know, in a

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Speaker 1: psychology course, he had brought in um diverse people in

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Speaker 1: his in his discussions and case studies, and he said

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Speaker 1: students were wondering, well, why why are you Why are

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Speaker 1: you including this? It doesn't really feel relevant. And now

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Speaker 1: a decade later, you know, students are really asking for it.

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Speaker 1: But the question is book, If you're a business school

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Speaker 1: professor and you've been teaching a class for decades, you

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Speaker 1: know you that add more work for you to change

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Speaker 1: out your case studies. You know, it's a lot of

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Speaker 1: work to find case studies to to you know, have

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Speaker 1: to teach them, and they may not want to switch

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Speaker 1: up their courses if you know you've got an oldie,

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Speaker 1: but goody, you know who who's going to replace that?

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Speaker 1: And it takes effort on that time unto students keep

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Speaker 1: answering these surveys that you're doing, Joel and saying this

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Speaker 1: is what we want. You know, that's exactly right. And

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Speaker 1: and it's also why we've continued to just champion this

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Speaker 1: this ranking because like the students end up being the

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Speaker 1: engine that drives it, they become alumni. The alumni also

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Speaker 1: are a big part of who do takes part in

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Speaker 1: these surveys. The more you do that, the more it

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Speaker 1: actually helps everything. Joe, Well, we're gonna have more offshoots

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Speaker 1: of certainly the Business Week coverage in the magazine that's

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Speaker 1: in weeks to come. Joe Weber, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. Editor Bloomberg Business Week. Here in

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Speaker 1: our studio, Janet Laura and check her out at Janet

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Speaker 1: Lauren on Twitter, Higher education finance reporter at Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 1: You can find her story too at business week dot com.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get in

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Speaker 1: to it. Our check on the cryptocurrency world. We've got

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Speaker 1: a company that is developing digital tools to merge the

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Speaker 1: traditional capital markets and crypto assets here to tell us

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Speaker 1: more and Jale and I've been talking behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: We have a million questions for Alec Flenberg you see

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Speaker 1: of Nimbus. He's on the phone in New York City, Alex. UM,

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Speaker 1: so great to have you here with Shinali and myself.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I've been reading about your company, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be quite honest with you. UM, I'm

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Speaker 1: a little confused, so tell me exactly what you guys do.

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Speaker 1: So so good afternoon, ladies, and thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me on the show. It's a real pleasure. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I hope and I hope. Well, I think there's

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Speaker 1: only a ten minute segment, so a million questions going

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Speaker 1: to be pretty tough. Try to speak. Well, have you

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Speaker 1: back again, UM, So what do we do? We we

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Speaker 1: are firmly fixed in providing solutions within the decentralized finance space.

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Speaker 1: What does that really just mean in layman's terms, all

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Speaker 1: of the things that we've been doing, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the centralized standard eyes general uh financial services space

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Speaker 1: and the lending space. UM, in the traditional trading space,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be looking to do exactly the same

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Speaker 1: things and leveraging what the team's you know, multiple decades.

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Speaker 1: I would say at least every every single leader on

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Speaker 1: this team has at least three decades in the UH

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Speaker 1: centralized you know, standardized financial services space. So we're looking

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Speaker 1: to bring that experience to the decentralized space. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean. Yeah, So decentralized finance. One way, I try

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Speaker 1: to explain it to people and tell me how you

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Speaker 1: make the comparison. The centralized finance reminds me a lot

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Speaker 1: of peer to peer lending, where there's a human being

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Speaker 1: on the other side somewhere. Um, how does this actually work?

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Speaker 1: And how do you compare it to just peer to

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Speaker 1: peer lending like we've seen the last several years, right,

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Speaker 1: So so so peer to peer lending. So peer to

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Speaker 1: peer lending is one component of the centralized finance, right

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Speaker 1: and and that's also how we've we're starting, you know,

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Speaker 1: from the tools designs that we're implementing. So we're we're

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Speaker 1: actually provided two main apps, right, One that's for lending

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Speaker 1: and borrowing h with you know, through peer to peer

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Speaker 1: UH and also the exchange of currency off exchange so

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Speaker 1: that we don't have any fees associated with it. And

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Speaker 1: also because we're not an exchange. We're doing it off exchange. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's impossible to hack us, right, So, so there's a

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Speaker 1: great risk metrics there. But from a peer to peer perspective, uh,

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Speaker 1: there's very little difference between what decentralized finances and peer

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Speaker 1: to peer is providing versus what the last two decades

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Speaker 1: of the lending clubs and and the prospers uh that

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Speaker 1: they've done. Except they've done it off change and we're

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Speaker 1: doing it on change. So why is it better? Why

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Speaker 1: is it better? So I'll tell you sees ultimately, Ultimately, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: if we think about all of the decentralized activity that

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Speaker 1: we've seen over the last twenty or so years, starting

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Speaker 1: from you know, I mean you know mean no long

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Speaker 1: we're having to call a broker in order to get

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Speaker 1: an executioner to get a quote. Right. Uh, When when

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Speaker 1: that deessentralization happened and we started being able to trade

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Speaker 1: from our phones and our laptops without having to me

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Speaker 1: that call. Remember, transparency uh was it was a big

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Speaker 1: part of that. But also primarily it was the spees

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Speaker 1: I drove that if I don't if I don't have

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Speaker 1: to use a broker, I can do the same things

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Speaker 1: without those seas, and that's driving this industry as wend

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Speaker 1: so magical lower fees per peer learning. But the reality

429
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: too is there's a lot of risk involved. How do

430
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: you get comfortable with lending and barrowing two people you

431
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: don't know without actually insurance? By the way, like, where's

432
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: the oversight? Who? All? Right? Right? So I'm very happy

433
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: he said that because Look, one of the thing, one

434
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: of the reasons I keep harping on the fact that

435
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: the leadership of this team has spent their lifetime, you know,

436
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: I've spent twenty seven years in the in the you know,

437
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: in the real standardized you know, centralized financial services. The

438
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: reason I keep harping on that is because you're there

439
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: is a tremendous amount of risk, inherent risk in doing

440
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: it on chain or off chain. Right. The reason why

441
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: it's so important to pick products that are being developed

442
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: by folks with our level of experience is that we're

443
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: not looking to dethrone traditional finance, right, We're not looking

444
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: There are no you know, to us, you know, the standardized, generalized,

445
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: centralized banking sector. They're not the enemy. And let's let's

446
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: be realistic, ladies, you know, just because we're calling it

447
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: a disruption. Just because we're calling it as an industry

448
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: decentralization move doesn't mean that this traditional banking institutions and

449
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: alternative assets institutions are not going into the space. They

450
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: are going to go into the space very very heavily,

451
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: and they bring with them a tremendous amount of experience

452
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: and and liquidity. So we're actually providing that level of

453
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: experience and oversight to the community as well. Alex just

454
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: quickly got about forty twonds left here. I mean, my

455
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: understanding is you guys are moving towards a listing on

456
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: on with American Stock Exchange. So is the plan or

457
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: maybe is it ultimately that you end up being linked up,

458
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: bought out by merged with one of the traditional financial

459
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: Wall Street houses. And again just quickly so so I'll

460
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: tell you, being a compliance officer for many years, there's

461
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: no way that I could actually even speak to that.

462
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: But I am going to tell you that you are

463
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: right that we are. We are moving very heavily uh

464
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: to bring in a k y C n m L

465
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: and get registered in the state or for for global purposes,

466
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: all right, because we do feel that there's a good

467
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: balance to actually do that but but yeah, that's that's

468
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: certainly the direction of all right, we still have nine

469
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: thousand questions to ask you, but we'll do that next time.

470
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: Alex thinks so much. Alex Lemberg, CEO at Nimbus, on

471
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: the phone in New York City. I'm a journal now,

472
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: but you let me drive. No, no, no, all right, please,

473
00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: I'll do the right I want to try question. This

474
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: is the drive to the globe. Give thanks, We'll try

475
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: us down on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get to it. We've

476
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: just got about ten nine minutes left in today's trading session.

477
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: We're hovering around our worst levels of the day. We

478
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: are on track for a second down week when it

479
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: comes to US equities. Let's get to it with Ryan Kelly,

480
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: Senior VP portfolio manager at Hennessey Funds with us on

481
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: the phone in Raleigh, North Carolina. Among the funds he

482
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: helps manage, the Hennessy Gas Utility Fund up about eleven

483
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: year to date, putting it in the eighty second percentile

484
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: among its peers. That's according to Bloomberg Data. Ryan, the

485
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: energy story is certainly one that we've been watching this week.

486
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: How are you and how do you see that? Group? Hi? Good,

487
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: to be on again. Good to hear from you and

488
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: the group. Utility group has certainly been lagging this year

489
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: last year as well, but that's usually the time when

490
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: we think it starts to get a little bit more interesting. UM.

491
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: This is a group that we like for many reasons. Uh.

492
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: It has good dividend yields, it has a nice long

493
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: term uh projection of earnings, it's pretty stable earnings. These

494
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: are companies that we need no matter what. It's a

495
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: central part of the economy. UM. And yes, they have

496
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: been sort of pushed to the side last year and

497
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: this year, but this also makes it at this point

498
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: much more compelling valuation. They're trading at about a three

499
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: multiple discount to the SMP five. Generally they actually trade

500
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: just slight premium to the SMP. But you know, there's

501
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: been so much money going into all the other sectors

502
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: of the market and too. You know, last year is

503
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: all about large cap it was about technology. Uh. This year, Uh,

504
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: some of the sectors that really got hammered last year,

505
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: such as financials and energy, they've come flying back this year.

506
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: But you know, something like utilities, we think it is

507
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: still a really good long term holding for long term investors,

508
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: So how much are you rushing the safety now? You

509
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: made this comment about how these are companies that will

510
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: do well no matter what. We've seen a few days

511
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: of slight full pullbacks in SMP in the last week

512
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: or so. Are you looking for safety now? Well? I think, UM,

513
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen a little pullback, we're still only

514
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: about two and a half percent off the highs give

515
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: or take. UM. This is such a resilient market. It's

516
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to to tell, you know, if we are

517
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: going to have that next big correction that everybody talks

518
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: about UM. And you know we've seen it again and

519
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: again for the last year. Ever, every time that there's

520
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,239
Speaker 1: a pullback, it takes on average five days to hit

521
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: a new high UM. So UM, you know, things seem

522
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: a little different maybe this time, but potentially not. No,

523
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: this is more of UM. I like to talk about

524
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: utilities in this space a little bit more long term

525
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: right now, in that we are entering there is a

526
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: defensive side, which you mentioned, but we're entering really the

527
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: first endings i'd say, of a very very long term

528
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: transformative UM expansion for many of these companies UM driven

529
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: by clean energy, driven by new technologies driven by electrification.

530
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: If we are going to get to a space a

531
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: place where we have you know, say, um, many more

532
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: electric vehicles on the on the road, and many more

533
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: appliances being you know, you using electricity. I've seen studies

534
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: that show that we're going to need an electrical grid

535
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: which is two times bigger than it is right now,

536
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: which means what good things for natural gas? It means

537
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: it means good things for a few things we have

538
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: in this fund. We have utilities in general, so it's

539
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: really good for electric utilities. This is a long term

540
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: runway of growth and utilities in general, whether it's natural

541
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: gas or electric. Um. These are the companies that when

542
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: they invest in their infrastructure. This infrastructure a huge word

543
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: right now. When Capex goes up, longer term earnings per

544
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: share go up, but it causes growth rate and earnings

545
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: per share when they have to spend more to reinvest

546
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: in our infrastructure and to get bigger. Is there right?

547
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: One thing I do wonder though increasingly Snolly knows it.

548
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: She covers it, She talks about it all the time

549
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: about you know, e s G on Wall Street among

550
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: institutional investors, you know, looking for kind of a greener

551
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: way forward, greener it's a little vague I think right now,

552
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: because there aren't really true standards out there when it

553
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: comes to regulators and what it means. But I mean,

554
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: do you see in the near future that you're gonna

555
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: have to pivot more because institutional investors will demand it.

556
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: Investors will demand it that your investments reflect a cleaner

557
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: way forward when it comes to the impact on the environment. Well,

558
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's certainly that that that pressure

559
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: that's happening already, and that that's not only from institutional

560
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: investors and other investors, it's also from the companies themselves. UM,

561
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: many utilities themselves. Uh. They are pushing for whether or

562
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: not the government is or you know, politically we're moving

563
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 1: that way or not. They are pushing for net zero

564
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: type emissions by twenty fifty duke energy down in my area,

565
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: for instance. So that movement is happening, and that does

566
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: mean a whole lot of investment for many decades to come.

567
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: I think personally, the way that we believe is that, um,

568
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: it's going to be really hard to go to straight

569
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: on full renewables, and natural gas is a very good

570
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: complementary energy source to renewables, because you know, there are

571
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: certain times when we have to have a large scale

572
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: quickly turned on electricity generation, and natural gas is a

573
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: very good way to do that. You know you own

574
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: Berkshire as well. For me, Caroline, I love watching the

575
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: Berkshire bets. What do you want? What do you want

576
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: Warren Buffett to be doing with all that extra money? Well,

577
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: it's an interesting question. So, UM, the the way that

578
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: this fund is run, it is a fund which is

579
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: primarily invested in any company, most of companies that are

580
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: natural gas distribution companies. Now Berkshire Hathaway obviously does not

581
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: sound like one at all, Um, but they have a

582
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: very large company within their structure called min American, which

583
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: is a utility company and energy company. So that's why

584
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: it's in the fund. UM, and it happens to be,

585
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, market cap weighted funds, so it's UM one

586
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: of the largest holdings in the stand. Well, good to

587
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: get some time with you. This is certainly a topic

588
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot about more generally when it

589
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: comes to energy and just kind of watching several hotspots

590
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: around the world when it comes to energy crunches. Ryan,

591
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Ryan, Kelly, He's portfolio manager at

592
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: Hennessy Funds on the from Raleigh. Thanks for listening to

593
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or

594
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our

595
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or

596
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: watch us on YouTube. Search to Bloomberg Global News