WEBVTT - Being Black in America and Damp Eco Sentiment 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:05.280 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast counts Saturdays at 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.400 one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.600 iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.000 demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.279 Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Lisa Matteo. This week a 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.680 conversation with Lisa Jarvis about Moderna's tough road ahead, Claudia 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.080 Sam with a look at why so many Americans are 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.639 downbeat about the economy, and insight into what the future 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:33.200 holds for the farming industry with Laura Williams. But first, 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.240 Justin Fox joins us with a look into the homicide 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.479 rate of Black Americans. The title of your opinion piece, 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.120 where It's most Dangerous to Be Black in America, That 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.800 itself is eye catching, but the stat that you give 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:46.800 right off the top really hits home. I'm going to 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.280 say it for you. Black Americans make up thirteen point 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.360 six percent of the US population in twenty twenty two 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.880 and fifty four point one percent of the victims of 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.240 murder and homicide. Now you check with data from the 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.920 CDC explains what this works out to as far as 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.720 homicide rate, for Black Americans and just the scope. 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.680 Of it, I mean, the homicide rate for Black Americans 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.520 in twenty twenty two. And this data isn't totally completely 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.440 final yet, but I've been checking it for a while 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.560 and it isn't changing much. And this is all on 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.600 the CDC's online Wonder database that anybody can look into, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.880 although it takes a while to get up to speed 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.560 on it, which I did sadly early in the pandemic. Anyway, 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.319 the homicide rate for Black Americans last year was about 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:39.280 thirty per one hundred thousand people. For everybody else in 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.000 the country it was about four and four is still 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.000 pretty high by the standards of like other rich countries 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.480 in Europe and East Asia and such. I mean, in Japan, 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.320 it's just zero point two per hundred thousand, but it's 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.880 you know, thirty per hundred thousand is similar to even 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.840 higher than in places like Brazil, Colombia, Mexico that are 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.120 kind of known as being very, very violent. And it's 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:08.120 also a lot higher than the rate was before the pandemic, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:13.000 and especially around twenty fifteen twenty fourteen. 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.120 Right, and you mentioned when the homicide rady goes up, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.680 black Americans suffer disproportionately. 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.120 Yeah, Like when you look at the increase in homicides, 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.160 especially from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty. I mean, as 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.200 we've said, a little over half of all homicide victims 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.960 in the US are black, but the increase was about 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.639 sixty five percent Black Americans, So it's clear that, Yeah, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.880 when there's a wave of violence, it's it's Black Americans 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.680 who suffer the most. And when that wave recedes, as 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.400 this one is now doing, it's you know, down a 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.840 bit in the CDC data for last year, and in 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.600 crime statistics from New York, Los Angeles everywhere else, it's 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.560 down a lot so far this year too, So at 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.600 least that news is good. But wow, it went up 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.240 a lot, especially during the pandemic, but there'd also been 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.880 something of a rise in a couple of years before then. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.840 All Right, and you mentioned when the racial definitions have 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.000 changed recently, you talk about that as more government agencies 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:16.000 classify Americans as multiracial. So how does this change things 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:17.480 when you were going through the article. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.280 I mean, it doesn't change it much. It just makes 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.120 it a pain because basically, in all the data from 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:30.960 twenty eighteen and earlier, the CDC uses the old racial definitions, 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.600 which are basically sort of are you mostly black, are 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.560 you mostly white? Whatever? With the twenty twenty census, and 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.360 they started doing before then, they're much more open to no, 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.240 I'm multiple, I'm lots of things, which I think in 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.480 a lot of ways is great and very healthy development 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:49.760 for our country. But it's a pain when you're trying 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.560 to look at developments in long run statistics by race. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.440 It doesn't make that big a difference on a national 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.760 level in these numbers. The more recent statistics, who were 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.160 for people who identify as Black or African American only, 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.400 but you know in the census and all the people 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.360 who identify themselves as more than one race are sort 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.760 of in this no man's land. It couldn't get great 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.880 per capita statistics on them. With some of the cities 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.240 I looked at, it made a difference, but not enough 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.160 to really change the trajectory in a big way. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:19.600 Yeah, and that's what I want to get to. Some 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.719 of those numbers. So the black homicide rates far lower 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.400 in some parts of the country than in other parts. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.640 And you really broke down that twenty twenty two rates 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.840 for the country's most populous metro areas. So talk about 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:32.960 who topped the list, who came out at the bottom. 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:33.760 What did you find out? 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.880 This is among the thirty largest metro areas. And the 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.120 kind of interesting thing with the CDC data is you 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.240 can basically ask it to give really detailed stuff like 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.440 how many people were murdered in some small county in 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.960 Texas in twenty thirteen, and for that it won't tell 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.440 you because it basically won't disclose data if they're fewer 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.440 than ten people involved, because the idea is that that 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.320 would make it possible, and it doesn't really with murder, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.599 it doesn't really matter, but with other causes of death, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.520 it would invade people's privacy. It's really helpful to do 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.880 big groups. The CDCED used to publish a lot of 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.600 this data by metropolitan area. You could just click I 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.640 want everything sorted by metropolitinaria. For some reason, they don't 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.919 do that anymore. But you can go in and pick 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.240 all the counties in a metropolitan area and ask it 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.800 to combine all of which is a long excuse for 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.280 why I only did thirty metropolitan areas rather than anymore. Anyway, 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:32.200 So these thirty biggest metropolitan areas, the worst is Saint Louis, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.720 which is a bunch of counties in both Missouri and 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.960 across the river in Illinois, and Baltimore is not far behind. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:46.279 And then the best are basically New York, San Diego, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.160 and best of all, Boston. And that's for overall homicide 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:49.600 right now. 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.640 Did anything surprise you about the results that came out 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:51.880 from that? 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.400 I mean, this kind of started. I wrote a piece 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.120 a year ago looking at CDC data just to it 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.200 was sort of at the moment when crime in New 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.560 York was really top of mind and lots of people 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.040 around the world seem in the country seemed to think 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:09.880 New York was just such a dangerous place. And I 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.360 looked at homicides, it's not bad in New York. You 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.440 throw in accident data in New York is like one 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.479 of the safest places in the country. So that didn't 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.279 surprise me. But it's still kind of funny to see 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.800 it down at the bottom here. It kind of remarkable 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.440 how low Boston is. I mean, it's not that surprising 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.440 when you think about it, but it's like another big 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.920 step lower than in New York or it's only two 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.680 per hundred thousand overall, and the nationwide for everybody is 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.840 something like five point seven five point eight, so it's 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.440 a lot lower in Boston. In New York, it's three 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.720 point seven per hundred thousand. Saint Louis, the overall homicide 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.240 rate is fifteen point seven per hundred thousand, But then 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.520 you break it down by race, and it's just it's 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.159 an even bigger gap in some cases. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.039 Well, I'm glad you mentioned that gap. And you also 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.920 found some regional patterns to this data too. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:06.040 Yeah. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.159 I mean, the worst places, at least in this thirty 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.160 biggest metro area list in both the worstplaces in overall 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.640 homicide rates are pretty much all kind of rust Belt 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.840 or russ I guess Baltimore is not officially in the 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.080 rust Belt, but it kind of feels like it. And 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:25.120 you know, Saint Louis, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, and then Atlanta's 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.760 pretty high too. When you break it down, what you 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:34.680 get is really this these old Saint Louis, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.960 stand out, and then this bizarre newcomer Portland, Oregon, which 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.760 wouldn't have been high on this list at all five 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.280 years ago but is just awfully high now. It's more 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.240 dangerous to be black in Portland last year than in 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.160 Detroit or Baltimore or Chicago. 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:53.120 That's crazy. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.000 Let's talk about those incidents of police violence that go 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.840 viral a spark protests. We've seen it. They can tend 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.880 to be followed by local increased is in violent crime. 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.080 So talk more about how this affects those homicide rates. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:10.200 Obviously, police violence, I mean sometimes it's inevitable. A lot 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.160 of times it's not. People have lots of reasons to 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.720 protest against it and be mad about it and try 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.320 to fix it. At the same time, it's you know, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.840 black people killed by police officers. It's around two hundred 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.760 and fifty a year as opposed to more than thirteen 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.600 thousand black victims of homicide overall. And it's so it's 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.320 pretty clear that, you know, if the focus is that 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:42.640 black lives matter, and it should be that it's getting 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.480 down crime rates is the most important thing. And having 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:51.600 effective policing, which generally means police departments that aren't abusing 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.200 their citizens, but at the same time means police departments 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:59.319 that are arresting people and fighting crime, is really important 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:00.360 to save people's. 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.440 Now, justin I think it's important to note that you 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.720 did all of this intense, intense research for this story, 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.920 and you are not black. What motivated you to take 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:11.240 this on? 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.920 I mean, the initial thing is just as as mentioned, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.600 I got familiar with these CDC databases early in the 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:20.880 pandemic and was like looking at all the things that 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.640 were more or less likely to kill you than COVID. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.280 And one of the things that starts coming out when 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.160 you're looking at younger people is that you know, it's 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:32.640 mostly not diseases did kill young people. It's accidents, it's suicides, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.720 it's homicides. And then you start storing it by race 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.320 and especially by gender, and like it's for black young men, 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.880 it's homicide is the number one cause of death most 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.360 of the time. It might not be in twenty twenty 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.559 two for the awful reason that the opioid epidemic is 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:52.200 sort of moved from rural areas where that are mostly white, 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.520 into cities. And so I mean that's the initial thing. 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:58.320 It's just this is this thing that I don't think 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.760 it's enough attention. And then I I do think it 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.600 was this frustration with especially the mainstream media coverage of 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.480 police violence and the black Lives Matter movement that I 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:14.160 just think has underplayed this sort of underlying reality that 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.079 the biggest threat to young men's black lives is not police, 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.120 it's violence in their own communities, and police can make 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.400 that better, can make that worse. But it's just it 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.920 just feels like the focus of the discussion has been 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.680 way too much in one place. And I think it's 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.840 mainly because the mainstream media is full of white journalists 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.240 like me who feel uncomfortable writing about these things. So 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.240 I don't know, I mean, I don't have good answers. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.720 Here are good explanations of why this problem persists, but 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.560 it does seem really important to note that it was 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.640 much better a few years ago, and it's much better 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.440 in some cities than others. This is not some inevitable thing. 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:57.240 Bloomberg Opinion columnist justin Fox. Coming up, we'll speak with 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:02.440 columnist Lisa Jarvist about moderna and vaccine development. This is 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:03.400 Bloomberg Opinion. 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:16.280 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion Podcast Contest Saturdays at 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.400 one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.600 iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.760 demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:30.160 You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Lisa Matteo. Let's bring 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.200 an opinion columnist Lisa Jarvis to get her thoughts on 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.680 where Moderna stands among the competition as it expands into 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.520 other infectious diseases. Moderna has had a tough road ahead 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.880 of it. That's the feel from this opinion piece that 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.200 you put together. Now, you mentioned that the company's biggest 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.640 challenge has shifted from proving that it's mrina vaccines and 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.960 products work to convincing the world that they offer something 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.640 better than what's out there. I mean, how tough is 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:55.240 that a sell? 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.640 I think it's definitely a tougher sell than when they 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.880 had this captive market which just you know, a vac 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.520 seen from them and from Advisor, and everyone was feeling 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.800 very motivated to take it. But the products that they 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:08.880 have coming up next, and you know, I'll to say 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.880 it's impressive. They have four things that are likely to 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.400 be on the market by twenty twenty five. You know, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.320 if we're talking about a different biotech company, that might 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:23.760 feel really impressive. But all of those things already have 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.320 existing products and so so far, what they've shown is 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.760 what they can offer is something that's about the same 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.120 as what's already out there. So they'll have an RSV vaccine, 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.520 a flu vaccine, a vaccine that combines covid and flu, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.080 you know, to note that is novel, and then they'll 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:43.560 have a next generation covid vaccine. So you know, RSV 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.960 and flu are really competitive markets. And so the question is, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.080 you know, are they offering something better? Are the side 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.920 effects worse for their vaccine? You know, how do they 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.600 convince people that they should choose their mRNA vaccine over 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.040 you know what already? You know we're all familiar with. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.920 Right and you spoke with Maderna's CEO. I mean, does 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.559 he like the progress that he's seeing? 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.080 He definitely does. And you know, I think what they're 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.840 trying to pitch to investors right now is that they're 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.160 really transforming, you know, and you know that they have 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.920 a very full pipeline and that they're not going to 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.160 be just a one product company. In fact, they have 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.920 a platform that is delivering. Each of their phase threes 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.280 has been successful, so I have to give them credit 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.160 for that. And they are going to be active in 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.880 three areas infectious diseases, cancer, and then rare diseases, which 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.000 you know that's a little further in the distance when 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.640 we'll start to see products coming out of that. So, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.679 you know, I think he's basically trying to convince everyone 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.280 to be patient to you know, that it's going to 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.959 cost them some money to get these things to market, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.480 you know. I think just the question is, you know, 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.760 how they adjust to a different reality than they faced 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.320 during COVID when it comes to marketing their products and 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.439 showing that they have something that is better. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.439 Now, let's get in to that money. So as MODERNA 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.320 moves into other infectious diseases that you were just talking about, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.560 it's facing a lot of competition, right, and they've been 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.600 putting a lot of money into late stage clinical studies. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.400 Can the payoff of its transformation justify the cost? 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.600 That really is the key question that they need to answer. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.800 I mean they think yes, obviously, I think they're going 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.920 to be putting They said twenty five billion dollars in 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.520 R and D between twenty twenty four and twenty twenty eight. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.200 That that puts them in the same league, just below 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.840 Gilead Sciences, which obviously has been around for a lot 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.600 longer and has a lot more successful products on the market. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.240 And so you know, I think what they need to 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.680 prove is that they can be the kind of marketing 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.640 powerhouse that they're going to need to be to get 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.280 these products out there and convince people that they're worthwhile. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.600 You know, that there really is going to be demand 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.600 for say, a vaccine that combines covid and flu. To me, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.280 that's the most unique thing that they've got going for them. 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.320 And then I think last is their cancer vaccine that 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.160 could be potentially be on the market by twenty twenty five. 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.520 There's a lot of excitement around that. The you know, 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.840 kind of other issue they have is that right now, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.320 it's very expensive to make these products, and so they 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.200 need to get down you know, that cost so that yeah, 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.760 that even if they are making you know a lot 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.040 of money off of these vaccines, that you know, there's 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.120 actually a profit there. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.080 All right, Let's get to the funding, because it really 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.240 depends on the continuing sales of the vaccine. I mean, 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.560 is is the demand strong enough for the vaccine. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.480 They have no choice but to rely on Americans wanting 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.520 Americans and people around the world wanting to roll up 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.280 their sleeves for this new booster that you know, has 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.280 recently become available. This updated shot to XBB. You know, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.560 we know that last year only seventeen percent of people 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.880 in the US opted to get that that shot, and 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.320 so I think their hope is this is the first 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.600 year that we're in a actual commercial market. They're the 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.600 ones who are trying to get out there and get 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:01.680 the word out that they've got this vaccine. It's not 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.640 the government that's providing it. So it's going to be 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.120 interesting to see what happens. I think there's some skepticism that, 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.760 you know, their projections for how many people are willing 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.200 to get their shot, you know, will be matched with 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.720 the reality of some of the hesitancy that's out there 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.480 around you know, whether people feel like they need a 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:21.480 COVID vaccine or not. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.720 Okay, now you mentioned some of these, but let's kind 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.200 of break it down a little bit talk about the 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.360 other vaccines in development. Let's start with Moderna's RSV vaccine. 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.640 Yeah, so that vaccine, you know, it's a good product. 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.240 It's a year behind. This is their problem. It's a 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.880 year behind vaccines that recently became available from Pfizer and 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.600 Glaxo Smith Cleent. So you know, I think, you know, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.040 they need to play catch up. What they're trying to 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.360 sell is being differentiated is that they're offering the vaccine 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.200 in a pre loaded pen, so the other two products 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.880 come into vile and the pharmacist has to mix it. 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.920 And they're arguing like, well, in a busy pharmacy environment 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.160 where we know everybody you know is experiencing shortages of 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.879 you know, healthcare workers, having this pre loaded pen is 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.600 going to be attractive. Their flu vaccine, you know, had 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.840 been struggling a little bit. They came out this was 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.639 the other big news. They came out with you know, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.880 good phase three data on that last week. The question is, 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.880 you know, the side effect profile. All of us who've 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.560 gotten a COVID shop you know, an mRNA shot know 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.399 that the side effects can be a little rough. You know, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.640 Will people decide that something that's as good as what's 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.679 there is enough? And I think what they need to 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.119 prove is that what they have is something better like that, 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.640 you know, it does better, performs better than the other 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.120 flu vaccines that are out there right now, we only 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.720 have antibody data on that, but having some actual like 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.680 outcomes data, you know, do people do more people live? 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.439 You know, do fewer people get the flu? Or have 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.680 a severe case that would be really helpful for them. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.439 And then they have this vaccine that they're working on 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.639 where they're going to combine covid in the flu. That 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.280 vaccine incorporates a next generation covid vaccine they've been working 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.520 on that they hope, well, they'll be able to give 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.240 people a smaller dose of and it'll work better than 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.040 what we have now. So you know, again, I think 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.679 the question is what does demand look like in a 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.760 year or two or three years, because we don't really 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.159 know how the pandemic or you know, the kind of 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.480 virus will start to you know, affect people if in 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.199 coming years. So those are their main products. And then, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.560 as I mentioned, this cancer vaccine is the other one 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.160 that everyone's really excited about. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.840 Yeah, and what about those ambitions? I mean, what does 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.720 the CEO say it's going to take to get FDA approval? 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.560 This has been the question on investors' mind. I mean 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.760 so many people have been just clamoring for information. When 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.000 are they going to file for approval? I think they 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.119 had really good data that came out on this cancer 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:51.720 vaccine showing that it could reduce the risk of skin 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.800 cancer as certain kind of skin cancer from returning or 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.520 from people dying by forty four percent, you know, and 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.000 so a lot of investors think, well, that should be 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.359 enough for you to file for approval. The CEO, you know, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.200 says three things need to happen, you know. One, they 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.359 have to start a phase retrial, which they've done, you know. Two, 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:11.760 they are going to have some data later this year 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.560 that will kind of show over a longer time horizon 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.360 whether those numbers hold up or if maybe they even 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.919 get a little better in terms of how well that 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.600 vaccine performs. And then three, these are highly personalized products. 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.159 They take, They use of patient's own tumor cells to 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.720 create the vaccine, and so that's very complicated from a 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.280 manufacturing perspective, and they're trying to get all of that 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.600 in place because I do think legitimately his pushback on 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.080 filing for approval now is like, well, we could do that, 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.360 but we couldn't actually treat everybody who's going to want 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:45.520 the product. 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.639 Right, And the company recently said it's well on the 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.520 way to becoming a big biotech contender. What's your take. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.920 If they can move their technology a little beyond where 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.160 COVID was. I mean, they showed that mRNA works, if 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.560 they can show works as a therapeutic, if this cancer vaccine, 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.800 you know, continues to progress in the way we'd like 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.679 to see it progress and help people. That will you know, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.240 certainly show that it's not just like as good as 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.760 the existing technology that's out there, and that it could 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.560 be really transformative. But you know, they've got some work 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.760 on that. We have to be patient and see what happened. 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.919 Bloomberg Opinion columnist Lisa Jarvis there. The Federal Reserve was 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.960 in focus this week when FED Chair J Powell held 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.520 rates unchanged but signaled they'll be higher for longer. 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.560 We're prepared to raise rates further if appropriate, and we 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.280 intend to hold policy at a restrictive level until we're 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.520 confident that inflation is moving down sustainably toward our objective. 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.960 In addition to bringing down inflation, he clearly laid out 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.600 the Fed's objective. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.439 Soft lending is a primary objective, and I did not 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:48.200 say otherwise. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.439 I mean, that's that's what we've been trying to achieve. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.000 Powell's had success in bringing down inflation this year, and 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.000 the stock markets had a strong twenty twenty three, but 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.480 many Americans are downbeat about the economy. Economist Claudia sam 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:07.040 joins us to explain why inflation rates falling back toward 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.919 more normal levels. We have the labor market, it's strong. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.520